What do surveyors know?
pony express
On a boat that was recently surveyed, the surveyor (who has a reputation of
being overly thorough) said that the clutches were shot and should be
replaced, the centerboard lifting system and pivot needed to be reworked,
and the roller furler should be replaced since the company was no longer in
business ( the bottom of the drum was broken).
Upon inspection, I found: The clutches were fine, but the previous owner
had run the lines through incorrectly.
The centerboard lifting system and pivot were fine, but the line was run
through the clutch incorrectly so it wouldn't lower and if you could get it
down, there was too much friction on the line to lift it.
The furler company is in business but is trading under their initials, and
they have replacement drums for that particular furler for $110.
Should the buyer complain to the surveyor?
--
Steve & Suzanne
S/V Pony Express
Express 30
www.express-sailing.com/owners
Matt Colie
No - (in my never to be humble opinion)
The surveyor's job is to provide the prospective buyer with clear
picture of the actual condition of the boat. It sounds like he did a
vary good job of that.
The fact that actual situations were not as bad he may have expected (he
gave you a very plausible worst case) is for the seller to argue or
correct prior to sale if he chooses to do so. If the sale was canceled
because if this report, that is unfortunate. If his report had not said
that the furler needed replacement and the boat had to be hauled for the
board to be fixed, then the buyer could and should file with the
surveyor for the cost to bring the vessel to condition as stated in his
report.
If I had gotten a this real an estimation of condition from the last
surveyor I worked with, the boat would still be in the broker's yard.
Write the name of that surveyor down somewhere and when one of you
friends is looking at a boat give him that name. Never - Ever Ever use
a surveyor suggested by the broker (now I know that). Things were a
whole lot different when boats didn't last this long.
Matt Colie A.Sloop "Bonne Ide'e" S2-7.9 #1
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor
BOB
"pony express" <ponye...@addr.com> wrote in message
news:adg7vk$111m9m$1...@ID-47063.news.dfncis.de...
YES
Highlander
question the validity of the rest of it. It's one thing for a surveyor to
stringent on the buyers behalf...another thing to be incorrect.
Just my two cents worth, with inflation probably much less.
Douglas King
> How much faith should you put in a surveyor's word?
That all depends on how much he agrees with me.......
>
> On a boat that was recently surveyed, the surveyor (who has a reputation of
> being overly thorough) said that the clutches were shot and should be
> replaced, the centerboard lifting system and pivot needed to be reworked,
> and the roller furler should be replaced since the company was no longer in
> business ( the bottom of the drum was broken).
> Upon inspection, I found: The clutches were fine, but the previous owner
> had run the lines through incorrectly.
> The centerboard lifting system and pivot were fine, but the line was run
> through the clutch incorrectly so it wouldn't lower and if you could get it
> down, there was too much friction on the line to lift it.
> The furler company is in business but is trading under their initials, and
> they have replacement drums for that particular furler for $110.
> Should the buyer complain to the surveyor?
It sounds more like the *seller* has a complaint than the buyer. This surveyor
found problems with the boat and overestimated their severity, possibly
overestimating the cost to correct them. I assume the buyer got a lower price
because of this?
If the buyer went out and spent the money on fixing these things exactly
recommended by the surveyor, then he'd have a beef.
Frankly I'd rather have a surveyor overstate the severity of problems with a
boat I'm buying, than have him skip over bad stuff or dismiss it lightly as
being of no importance or expense. One thing to bear in mind is that the
surveyor has a LOT of ground to cover and it's not his job to fix things , his
job is to find what's broken (even when it is deliberately hidden).
Is this on Scotty's new boat, or have you found and bought a centerboard version
of the Express 35?
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
katy
We did. We had the exact opposite happen when we bought Chanteuse. The
surveyor had done the last survey for the previous owner's, under the direction
of the broker (who also happened to be the Commander of the local Yacht
Club)...instead of dperforming a complete new survey, he used the old one(I
guess for expediancies sake..). He ended up having to remand some of his
survey fee, pay for a new radio, and pay for par tof a new head system and
holding tank. HThis surveyor has a very good reputation as a surveyor and was
recommended not only by the broker but by other boatowner's totally
disinterested in teh sale of that particular boat. We attribute the whole
thing to pressure being applied on the surveyor by the broker abnd by the
seller's.
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
Highlander
katy <katy...@aol.combingbox> wrote in message
news:20020603162510...@mb-bd.aol.com...
He ended up having to remand some of his
> survey fee, pay for a new radio, and pay for par tof a new head system and
> holding tank.
katy
I think he eneded up owing the broker...he apologized to us profusely. The
broker was a snake.
SAIL LOCO
RECOMENDED surveyors. The guy turned out to be a complete a--hole. He pulled
2 halyards to the top of the mast and then denied it. I had to pull my
daughter up to retrieve them. He then sends me a survey for another boat
which fouled things up with the bank. When I called to inform him of this he
gets pissed that he has to "go back down the street" to send another fax. Acts
like it's my fault. He then sends me the report for the correct boat and
leaves off 3/4s of the sails and half the electronics from the inventory. This
requires another phone call where he proceeds to get even more pissed off that
he has to do it over again and make another trip down the street. The guy was
a real incompetent dummy and on top of that a complete looser when it came to
"customer service". This idiots name is James Fesmire, Hunt Valley, Md. Avoid
this guy if you live in Maryland.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport
JC
"pony express" <ponye...@addr.com> wrote in message
> How much faith should you put in a surveyor's word?
Depends upon the surveyor. Surveyors are like car salesmen: some are
honest, many aren't. Some know their business, many don't.
> On a boat that was recently surveyed, the surveyor (who has a reputation
of
> being overly thorough) said that the clutches were shot and should be
> replaced, the centerboard lifting system and pivot needed to be reworked,
> and the roller furler should be replaced since the company was no longer
in
> business ( the bottom of the drum was broken).
> Upon inspection, I found: The clutches were fine, but the previous owner
> had run the lines through incorrectly.
This demonstrates that the surveyor was probably more in tune with
powerboats. Some surveyors around here don't have a clue w/r/t anything
with spars and lines. An honest surveyor would have said, "Sorry, but
sailboats aren't my specialty."
> The centerboard lifting system and pivot were fine, but the line was run
> through the clutch incorrectly so it wouldn't lower and if you could get
it
> down, there was too much friction on the line to lift it.
> The furler company is in business but is trading under their initials, and
> they have replacement drums for that particular furler for $110.
> Should the buyer complain to the surveyor?
He could try. My experience with dishonest or incompetent surveyors is that
they tend to hang up on you. Short of litigation, most surveyors couldn't
care less if you're happy, as long as they have their money. I've been
accused of being cynical w/r/t surveyors, but I truly believe that only one
in ten or so is competent. Most are folks who don't like office hours and
really don't like to work very hard. The good ones are real pros--if you
locate such a person, keep his/her card.
Jeff
JC
"katy" <katy...@aol.combingbox> wrote in message
> Should the buyer complain to the surveyor?
>
>
> We did. We had the exact opposite happen when we bought Chanteuse. The
> surveyor had done the last survey for the previous owner's, under the
direction
> of the broker (who also happened to be the Commander of the local Yacht
> Club)...instead of dperforming a complete new survey, he used the old
one(I
> guess for expediancies sake..).
READ: dishonest and lazy.
> He ended up having to remand some of his
> survey fee, pay for a new radio, and pay for par tof a new head system and
> holding tank. HThis surveyor has a very good reputation as a surveyor and
was
> recommended not only by the broker but by other boatowner's totally
> disinterested in teh sale of that particular boat. We attribute the whole
> thing to pressure being applied on the surveyor by the broker abnd by the
> seller's.
An honest surveyor won't bend to the whims of brokers, sellers, or buyers.
He'll perform an accurate survey, appraise the boat correctly, and charge a
fair price. As I said in another post, most surveyors probably don't fit
this description.
Jeff
JC
"Highlander" <tanta...@aol.com> wrote in message
> katy <katy...@aol.combingbox> wrote in message
> He ended up having to remand some of his
> > survey fee, pay for a new radio, and pay for par tof a new head system
and
> > holding tank.
> Damn!!!! He didn't take home much of a paycheck that week.
As well he shouldn't have.
Jeff
JC
"SAIL LOCO" <sail...@aol.com> wrote in message
We have a similar "surveyor" in our area--one with a purportedly good
reputation--who does incompetent surveys, makes the appraised value whatever
the person paying for the survey wants to hear, and is belligerent if
questioned about his work as well. I spoke with insurers when seeking a
surveyor for my latest boat, and they all rejected this guy on the grounds
that his appraisals bear no semblance of reality, making their job difficult
if not impossible. They steered me to a competent, honest man who, in their
opinion, was beyond reproach. He was indeed. Insurance companies and
lenders may be a good source of names for honest, competent surveyors in any
area.
Jeff
Big Man Restless
> How much faith should you put in a surveyor's word?
Guess it all depends on the surveyor. The guy who surveyed my boat got the
year it was built wrong, said the serial number on the engine had faded so
badly it was unreadable,(my engine is a year 2000 outboard) and he got a few
other little things wrong. Just my two cents worth.
William Brown
--
SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from apkh.net, if it is
there.
Leftwing24
A buddy of mine had his boat in the marina in Kennebunk, and a couple of
years ago, I saw this Cape Dory 27 on stands in the yard with a 'For Sale'
sign on it. I called the number, and talked to the owner. He was asking
$15k, as is, but indicated that he could come down; he just wanted to pay
off the loan (around $12k). He told me to look it over (he lived about 50
miles away) and that he would send a copy of the most recent survey (about a
year old). I asked around in the yard, and the guys told me it had been on
the stands for at least three years. I poked around on the boat and found :
torn main (unusable, and unrepairable, according to the boatyard guys),
broken backstay, all the seacocks were frozen, no electronics, two ports
obviously leaking, engine was completely covered with black oil, loose prop
shaft (side-to-side over 1/8"), hull was fair but some keel damage. Now,
I'm no surveyor, but this is what I saw with my own untrained eyes. Here
comes the survey: the broken backstay, some "reported" sail damage, all
electronics included and working, didn't inspect all the seacocks, no engine
test, no sea trial, never went up the mast; the survey was 4 pages long.
The guys in the boatyard looked at the survey and laughed. I called the
owner and offered him $10k firm, and he turned it down. He listed it at
Robinhood; it was on the website at $16.9k with a picture from the Cape Dory
brochure. I don't know what he ended up getting for it. If I still had the
survey, I'd post the name.
Frank
John Cairns
recommended that you DON'T use a surveyor that is affiliated in any manner
with the broker or seller. Too high a possibility that a surveyor would
gloss over any problems with the boat. When I purchased my C-28 I was
surprised that the broker offered to find a survyor for me! I politley
declined. John Cairns
katy <katy...@aol.combingbox> wrote in message
> Should the buyer complain to the surveyor?
>
>
John Cairns
he is affiliated with. John
Cairnsnews:20020603171657...@mb-fl.aol.com...
Matt Colie
Matt Colie
SAIL LOCO
Yes I did and at first they seemed to not be interested. At the end of the
conversation they said they would put a report in his file.
Someone else mentioned their surveyor and the value he assigned to their
boat. I forgot to mention this guy put the value down as the number I was
paying after he asked me. Problem was that number was fifteen grand less than
the book value I gave to the bank. This caused additional small problems with
the bank and the insurance company. So I had to call him again. Turns out the
putz was just too lazy to look up the value.
JC
"SAIL LOCO" <sail...@aol.com> wrote in message
> Turns out the
> putz was just too lazy to look up the value.
I met a surveyor in Rhode Island who told me that most of his "colleagues"
enter the profession because they are lazy and refuse to work a normal 9 to
5 workday. Your comment seems to bear this out.
Jeff
pony express
--
Steve & Suzanne
S/V Pony Express
Express 30
www.express-sailing.com/owners
"JC" <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:adibgt$3sb$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
Scøtt Vernøn®
SV
"pony express" <ponye...@addr.com> wrote in message
news:adg7vk$111m9m$1...@ID-47063.news.dfncis.de...
Douglas King
> .......I've been
> accused of being cynical w/r/t surveyors,
No! Not you!
> but I truly believe that only one
> in ten or so is competent.
That seems to be in line with Sturgeon's Law: "90% of everything is crap."
> Most are folks who don't like office hours and
> really don't like to work very hard.
Sounds good to me. Where do I sign up?
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Kramer
Kramer, NW29 Gaviidae
"pony express" <ponye...@addr.com> wrote in message
news:adieik$11f25b$1...@ID-47063.news.dfncis.de...
Phil Hughes
in the area and not knowing any better, I asked the broker for the
name of a few good surveyors (I know , I know!) She was quite
competent and told me straight out that she would not recomend any but
did give me the name of a few specializing in sailboats. Which is
pretty much the same as recomending them I guess. I called them all up
and left messages on their answering machines. Only one of them called
me back. I picked him on the strength of his call back. He had me meet
him at the marina at 7 am. We spent 3-4 hours going all over the boat.
The owner showed up at noon and we took the boat out for sea trails
then sailed over to the yard where we had the boat hauled and found
big problems with the rudder, bottom and propeller shaft, The surveyor
took me aside and basically told me not to buy the boat. Still I made
a ridiculously low offer on it, the owner of course refused. Even
though I did not buy the boat. a few weeks later, I got a complete
survey in the mail. I used the same surveyor when we bought
Maggie-Mae...I guess I got lucky!
Phil
"Leftwing24" <leftw...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:<KnVK8.26054$Oj7.6...@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>...
Highlander
Phil Hughes <prh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:295165a.02060...@posting.google.com...
Even
> though I did not buy the boat. a few weeks later, I got a complete
> survey in the mail. I used the same surveyor when we bought
> Maggie-Mae...I guess I got lucky!
>
> Phil
d parker
I assume the seller would have had serious doubts about the sale going ahead
and then, he should have been pressured to lower the agreed purchase price.
Of course it is a major screw up on the surveyors part. Just remember, to
only use this guy if you are a buyer not a seller :)
DP
"pony express" <ponye...@addr.com> wrote in message
news:adg7vk$111m9m$1...@ID-47063.news.dfncis.de...
> How much faith should you put in a surveyor's word?
> On a boat that was recently surveyed, the surveyor (who has a reputation
of
> being overly thorough) said that the clutches were shot and should be
> replaced, the centerboard lifting system and pivot needed to be reworked,
> and the roller furler should be replaced since the company was no longer
in
> business ( the bottom of the drum was broken).
> Upon inspection, I found: The clutches were fine, but the previous owner
> had run the lines through incorrectly.
> The centerboard lifting system and pivot were fine, but the line was run
> through the clutch incorrectly so it wouldn't lower and if you could get
it
> down, there was too much friction on the line to lift it.
> The furler company is in business but is trading under their initials, and
> they have replacement drums for that particular furler for $110.
> Should the buyer complain to the surveyor?
>
pony express
--
Steve & Suzanne
S/V Pony Express
Express 30
www.express-sailing.com/owners
"Kramer" <Kra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HzeL8.21184$Z6.2...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
JC
"pony express" <ponye...@addr.com> wrote in message
> "JC" <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote in message
> > I met a surveyor in Rhode Island who told me that most of his
"colleagues"
> > enter the profession because they are lazy and refuse to work a normal 9
> to
> > 5 workday. Your comment seems to bear this out.
> Hey, that sounds good. Maybe I'll become a surveyor!
Should fit you like a hand and a glove.
Jeff
JC
"Douglas King" <dou...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> JC wrote:
> > Most are folks who don't like office hours and
> > really don't like to work very hard.
> Sounds good to me. Where do I sign up?
Did I also mention that most of them don't make enough to pay their bills
either?
Jeff
JC
"Highlander" <tanta...@aol.com> wrote in message
> Phil Hughes <prh...@aol.com> wrote in message
> Even
> > though I did not buy the boat. a few weeks later, I got a complete
> > survey in the mail. I used the same surveyor when we bought
> > Maggie-Mae...I guess I got lucky!
> The name of your surveyor please?
Probably Maggie-Mae. They liked her so much they named the boat after her.
Bet she had big . . .
Jeff
pony express
"JC" <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote in message
JC
"d parker" <daveparker(nospam)@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> Frankly he did the purchaser a favour. He gave them extra negotiating
power.
> I assume the seller would have had serious doubts about the sale going
ahead
> and then, he should have been pressured to lower the agreed purchase
price.
>
> Of course it is a major screw up on the surveyors part. Just remember, to
> only use this guy if you are a buyer not a seller :)
The guy sounds more like a frustrated attorney than a surveyor.
Jeff
Douglas King
> I guess I gor lucky. I was looking at a Cape Dory 28..Being rather new
> in the area and not knowing any better, I asked the broker for the
> name of a few good surveyors (I know , I know!) She was quite
> competent and told me straight out that she would not recomend any but
> did give me the name of a few specializing in sailboats. Which is
> pretty much the same as recomending them I guess. I called them all up
> and left messages on their answering machines. Only one of them called
> me back. I picked him on the strength of his call back.
Maybe the others all had hangovers that morning?
It's not just surveyors. A lot of people in trades and technical fields, for that
matter a lot of people in professional fields, really aren't very businesslike or
professional. In the past ten years, I found that simply returning calls and doing
a small amount of homework puts one in the upper 90% bracket.
> ..... He had me meet
> him at the marina at 7 am. We spent 3-4 hours going all over the boat.
> The owner showed up at noon and we took the boat out for sea trails
> then sailed over to the yard where we had the boat hauled and found
> big problems with the rudder, bottom and propeller shaft, The surveyor
> took me aside and basically told me not to buy the boat. Still I made
> a ridiculously low offer on it, the owner of course refused. Even
> though I did not buy the boat. a few weeks later, I got a complete
> survey in the mail. I used the same surveyor when we bought
> Maggie-Mae...I guess I got lucky!
You paid for the survey, you get it whether you buy the boat or not. And it is
*yours* although a lot of brokers and sellers act as though it goes with the boat.
You can give them a copy (or the original, since you don't have much use for it)
or not. In this case it sounds like the owner had his head stuck pretty deep in
the sand, did he even look at the survey?
>
> "Leftwing24" wrote...
> > Well, as long as we're telling survey stories...
> >
> > A buddy of mine had his boat in the marina in Kennebunk, and a couple of
> > years ago, I saw this Cape Dory 27 on stands in the yard with a 'For Sale'
> > sign on it. I called the number, and talked to the owner. He was asking
> > $15k, as is, but indicated that he could come down; he just wanted to pay
> > off the loan (around $12k).
Sad sad story. There are a LOT of boats out there with market prices below their
loan payoff. There's a lesson here folks.....
> > He told me to look it over (he lived about 50
> > miles away) and that he would send a copy of the most recent survey (about a
> > year old). I asked around in the yard, and the guys told me it had been on
> > the stands for at least three years. I poked around on the boat and found :
> > torn main (unusable, and unrepairable, according to the boatyard guys),
> > broken backstay, all the seacocks were frozen, no electronics, two ports
> > obviously leaking, engine was completely covered with black oil, loose prop
> > shaft (side-to-side over 1/8"), hull was fair but some keel damage. Now,
> > I'm no surveyor, but this is what I saw with my own untrained eyes. Here
> > comes the survey: the broken backstay, some "reported" sail damage, all
> > electronics included and working, didn't inspect all the seacocks, no engine
> > test, no sea trial, never went up the mast; the survey was 4 pages long.
So he did look at, and report on, a lot of stuff; it jhust wasn't the right stuff!
I hope you pointed out the shortcomings in this survey and renegotiated his fee
accordingly.
>
> > The guys in the boatyard looked at the survey and laughed. I called the
> > owner and offered him $10k firm, and he turned it down. He listed it at
> > Robinhood; it was on the website at $16.9k with a picture from the Cape Dory
> > brochure. I don't know what he ended up getting for it. If I still had the
> > survey, I'd post the name.
Maybe we, as knowledgable boat buyers, should demand that NAMSS and SAMS (or
whatever they are) have a web page where people can post their surveying horror
stories?
I''ve known a couple of marine surveyors and they generally are in the business
because they love boats. That doesn't necessarily make them technically savvy nor
provide a background in business etiquette; but a lot of them do all right. Still
it's hard to pick a good surveyor out of the box. The professional associations
are trying to make it easier (but obviously not going to rat on the bad 'uns).
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
d parker
"JC" <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote in message
JC
"pony express" <ponye...@addr.com> wrote in message
> "JC" <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote in message
> > "pony express" <ponye...@addr.com> wrote in message
> > > Hey, that sounds good. Maybe I'll become a surveyor!
> > Should fit you like a hand and a glove.
> How can you say that? You don't even know me.
Are you sure?
Jeff
Leftwing24
This wasn't a survey I had done; it was a copy of the survey the owner had
done while trying to sell the boat. I had done a lot of reading about CDs,
and liked the boat's reputation. I wouldn't be racing it, for sure, but it
looked like a good little cruiser for me and the kids. If the owner had
been willing to take the loss (after all, he was paying the loan and not
using it for three years, anyway), I'd have loved to pick it up. CD27s in
good condition were selling for twice what I was offering.
Frank
JC
"Leftwing24" <leftw...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> This wasn't a survey I had done; it was a copy of the survey the owner had
> done while trying to sell the boat. I had done a lot of reading about
CDs,
> and liked the boat's reputation. I wouldn't be racing it, for sure, but
it
> looked like a good little cruiser for me and the kids. If the owner had
> been willing to take the loss (after all, he was paying the loan and not
> using it for three years, anyway), I'd have loved to pick it up. CD27s in
> good condition were selling for twice what I was offering.
It's difficult to go wrong with a Cape Dory, provided it doesn't have
structural damage or is priced way too high. I've watched them go up in
value ever since the mid-80s. Good boats with good sailing manners.
Jeff
pony express
--
Steve & Suzanne
S/V Pony Express
Express 30
www.express-sailing.com/owners
"JC" <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:adm1di$p57$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
Leftwing24
> It's difficult to go wrong with a Cape Dory, provided it doesn't have
> structural damage or is priced way too high. I've watched them go up in
> value ever since the mid-80s. Good boats with good sailing manners.
>
offer. The hull looked sound, with very little damage (a few dings here and
there). A piece (about 3" by 3") was gone from the aft end of the keel, and
the bottom of the keel was scuffed quite a bit. I jumped up and down on the
deck, and there was no flex or dead spots. The yard guys spoke highly of
CDs, but my club owner was trying to warn me off. "They sail like a dog and
don't point well" was the kindest thing he had to say, but then he was a
die-hard racer. The cruisers in the club wished me luck and offered to
crew. The boat looked good in general; it just needed a LOT of TLC. I had
worked out a deal with the yard owner to keep the boat there and work on
it; my buddy was up there every weekend, and I spent a lot of them there as
well. BTW, the owner was a lawyer (as was his wife); he probably thought he
was getting a power boat with a mast...
JC
"Leftwing24" <leftw...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> "JC" <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote in message
> > It's difficult to go wrong with a Cape Dory, provided it doesn't have
> > structural damage or is priced way too high. I've watched them go up in
> > value ever since the mid-80s. Good boats with good sailing manners.
> Yeah, I was hoping he wanted to unload it badly enough to take a lowball
> offer. The hull looked sound, with very little damage (a few dings here
and
> there). A piece (about 3" by 3") was gone from the aft end of the keel,
and
> the bottom of the keel was scuffed quite a bit. I jumped up and down on
the
> deck, and there was no flex or dead spots. The yard guys spoke highly of
> CDs, but my club owner was trying to warn me off. "They sail like a dog
and
> don't point well" was the kindest thing he had to say, but then he was a
> die-hard racer.
LOL. A friend who races a 1D35 thinks that J35s are tubs that are slow and
won't point well either. Dedicated racers are not good sources of info
w/r/t cruising boats. The CDs may not be as weatherly as deep fin-keeled,
bilgeless lightweights, but they aren't bad as cruising boats go.
> The cruisers in the club wished me luck and offered to
> crew. The boat looked good in general; it just needed a LOT of TLC. I
had
> worked out a deal with the yard owner to keep the boat there and work on
> it; my buddy was up there every weekend, and I spent a lot of them there
as
> well. BTW, the owner was a lawyer (as was his wife); he probably thought
he
> was getting a power boat with a mast...
Damn yuppie trash. ;-)
Jeff
Douglas King
> >.......... The yard guys spoke highly of
> > CDs, but my club owner was trying to warn me off. "They sail like a dog
> and
> > don't point well" was the kindest thing he had to say, but then he was a
> > die-hard racer.
>
>
> LOL. A friend who races a 1D35 thinks that J35s are tubs that are slow and
> won't point well either. Dedicated racers are not good sources of info
> w/r/t cruising boats.
You mean like Carleton Mitchell or Lowell North? ;)
I'd say it depends on the racer, just as with any other form of advice. Anyhow,
all is relative... a 1D35 is a tub compared to either an A-Scow or a C-Cat, or a
long list of hotter boats.
> The CDs may not be as weatherly as deep fin-keeled,
> bilgeless lightweights, but they aren't bad as cruising boats go.
Nope. The Cape Dories are a pretty good bunch. Unlike a lot of boats that are
built "heavily" but not very well engineered and often not strong, CDs are both
pretty well engineered and very strong. The worst flaw I've seen in some of them
is that they don't steer very well. but none of them handles like a Laser and
nobody should expect them to.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King