Need advice on trip to US Southwest
andykk
Planning to see US Southwest in mid June for one month with our 22ft class C
in mid June. So far planned to see Monument Valley, Mesa Verde, Petrified
Forest, Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Grand Teton and Yellowstone. The
following advices are required:
1. What Inter-State Highway to avoid on this trip in terms of driving
difficulties? I live in Ontario, Canada.
2. Information suggests Monument valley is privately run and not much you
can drive and hike without a guide. Is it true and how's other people's
experience in enjoying this place by RV?
3. Information suggests Death valley NP requires high clearance vehicle or
4X vehicle. Is it true and what are the campgrounds and scenic spots that
are accessible by RV? BTW, is condition really that bad or harsh as
information suggested?
4. Information suggests campgrounds in Yellowstone NP are always full. Will
NP allow RVs to camp along roadside or spillover area if campgrounds are
full?
Any advices will be appreciated. Thanks.
Don Low
> can drive and hike without a guide. Is it true and how's other people's
> experience in enjoying this place by RV?
Momument Valley is part of the Navajo Indian Reservation. There is a
self-guided drive of about 20 miles and you will be able to see most
everything there is to see without any guide. There is a full hook-up
RV Park just past Goulding's Lodge and Trading Post.
> 3. Information suggests Death valley NP requires high clearance vehicle or
> 4X vehicle. Is it true and what are the campgrounds and scenic spots that
> are accessible by RV? BTW, is condition really that bad or harsh as
> information suggested?
While there are miles and miles of roads in Death Valley requiring a
high clearance four-wheel drive vehicle, you will be able to see most of
the park on good paved roads. There are full hook-up RV parks at
Furnace Creek and Stovepipe Wells as well as primitive camps at Furnace
Creek, Stovepipe Wells and near Scotty's Castle. One thing to keep in
mind, it is going to be HOT in Death Valley in June.
> 4. Information suggests campgrounds in Yellowstone NP are always full. Will
> NP allow RVs to camp along roadside or spillover area if campgrounds are
> full?
We have been to Yellowstone during the summer months twice in the past
and were able to find accomodations but you had better get there early
in the day. It will be crowded. As far as I know parking of RV's is
only allowed in established campground areas.
As long as you plan to visit Momument Valley, Canyon de Chelly is only
a short drive and well worth your time. In some ways, it is more
spectacular than Momument Valley. It is also on the Navajo Reservation
and you should take the tour at the lodge next to the RV park. No
hook-ups but free. The Indians take you about 15 miles up the canyon on
army 6X6's. Also, take the South rim drive. Very spectacular.
In my opinion, you are going to visit some of the most spectacular
country anywhere in the U.S.. Enjoy.
Don, retired in Tracy, Calif.
L&J
> Planning to see US Southwest in mid June for one month with our 22ft class C
> in mid June. So far planned to see Monument Valley, Mesa Verde, Petrified
> Forest, Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Grand Teton and Yellowstone. The
> following advices are required:
>
> 1. What Inter-State Highway to avoid on this trip in terms of driving
> difficulties? I live in Ontario, Canada.
All the Inter-Stae highways are good for most vehicles. Only problems
would be long steep climbs in the mountains.
> 2. Information suggests Monument valley is privately run and not much you
> can drive and hike without a guide. Is it true and how's other people's
> experience in enjoying this place by RV?
Other poster is correct. Is a Navajo Tribal Park. You can adequately
travel through & see Park from most vehicles but don't believe an RV
will hack it. The road through Park is dirt and prety rough in the
first mile. May want to consider a tour.
> 3. Information suggests Death valley NP requires high clearance vehicle or
> 4X vehicle. Is it true and what are the campgrounds and scenic spots that
> are accessible by RV? BTW, is condition really that bad or harsh as
> information suggested?
Sorry, haven't been there
> 4. Information suggests campgrounds in Yellowstone NP are always full. Will
> NP allow RVs to camp along roadside or spillover area if campgrounds are
> full?
Yes, Yellowstone is one of the busiest Parks. May have to camp in
outside campground for a night to be able to get into Park campgroung
very early - before 11 AM. Worth the slight hassele. No camping
anywhere in Park outside of established Campgrounds - this applies to
all US National Parks.
Heres some add'l info on SW:
SOME SOUTHWEST POINTS OF INTEREST
NOTE: All map references refer to AAA map of Southwestern US. Listed
alphabetically by State (AZ, CO, NM & UT). Areas listed represent only
a selected portion of available locations. For more details, see your
local Automobile Association for Tour & Camp Books and maps. Also
check out the National Park Service Home Page:
http://www.nps.gov/parks.html
(AZ/CO/NM/UT) Four Corners (AAA Map of SW US Ref I25): The "CENTER OF
THE SCENIC SOUTHWEST". Only location in US where you can place your
hands & feet in four different States (Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico &
Utah). Not much to see here but is a point of interest (can see Native
Americans 'scalping' everyone else - financially). On the map draw a
circle with the Four Corners as the center with a radius of about 250
miles - include Albuquerque & Colo Spgs. Within this circle lies the
most spectacular scenery in the southwest! You can spend years trying
to see everything within this circle.
(AZ) Canyon de Chelly Nat'l Monument (AAA Map of SW US Ref J25):
http://www.nps.gov/cach/
Pronounced "Canyon de Shay". Located inside Navajo lands and much is
controlled by them. View points along North Rim Drive and South Rim
Drive (don't miss last view point on south rim). Hike down into canyon
to view cliff dwellings. Can also join Navajo tour to drive you down
into canyon. One day trip. Small campground. Motels nearby. Not too
crowded.
(AZ) Grand Canyon Nat'l Park (AAA Map of SW US Ref J20/21):
http://www.nps.gov/grca/ Grand Canyon National Park Service pages
http://www.kaibab.org/gc_home6.htm The "unofficial" Home Page on the
Grand Canyon
http://www.thecanyon.com/nps/index.htm Grand Canyon Association site
http://www.gorp.com/gcjunkies/canyon.htm Grand Canyon hiking and
backpacking
Too vast & spectacular to describe. Southern & Northern rims offer
different views. South rim very busy - expect difficulties in parking
at view points (crowded). Will have Park & Ride (Tram) operating soon.
North rim (Visitor facilities closed Oct 15 - May 15; Open for day use
only Oct 15 - Dec 1 or until heavy snows close road) limited lodgings -
reservations necessary even for campground. Mule trips booked up to a
year in advance. Hike the West Rim Trail (easy) or Hardy hikers can
hike to bottom for overnight trip - also booked far in advance. Scenic
views along drive. (MUST SEE)
IMAX Theater: hhttp://www.ngtheater.com/grandcanyon Located in
Tusayan, 8 miles south of the western entrance (AZ 64/US 180; South Rim
of Grand Canyon), this 3-camera movie presents amazing views of Canyon
areas. Shows daily at half past the hour. Get there early as it will
be crowded (MUST SEE)
Grand Canyon Railray: http://www.thetrain.com/ Runs out of
Williams, AZ (I40 west of Flagstaff). Steam engine during summer months
(Memorial Day weekend thru September) and old diesel engine during
winter (October to Memorial Day weekend) Allows several hours stay at
rim of Canyon. Phone 1-800-843-8724
Drive down into Canyon Peach Springs, AZ - west of Williams on old
Route 66. Requires Permit from local Native Americans - their land.
Drive is about 20 miles (one way) on dirt road to Colorado River at
bottom of western edge of Grand Canyon.
(AZ/UT) Glen Canyon Nat'l Rec Area (Lake Powell) (AAA Map of SW US Ref
H/I22/23): http://www.nps.gov/glca/
Vast man-made Lake extends back into beautiful natural canyons. Boat
tours (from 1 hour to all day & dinner cruises) are available and
scenic. Rental houseboats for longer trips. Colorado river rafting
available Motels in Page, AZ. Camping nearby.
(AZ/UT) Monument Valley (AAA Map of SW US Ref I23 at AZ/UT border):
http://www.canyonlands-utah.com/tribn.html
Magnificent mesas & buttes seen in many John Wayne westerns. Park is on
Navaho land (Navajo Nation's Monument Valley Tribal Park) and mostly
dirt roads but well worth seeing. Half day.
(CO) Black Canyon of The Gunnison Nat'l Monument (AAA Map of SW US Ref
G26): http://www.nps.gov/blca/
Deep (over 2,000 feet) canyons cut into dark granite by Gunnison River.
Spectacular views from lookout points. Nice but small campground.
Flush toilets but no showers. Evening campfire talks by Rangers.
Recommend one day. Motels in nearby Montrose.
(CO) Colorado Springs (AAA Map of SW US Ref F29):
http://colorado.com/Colorado/towns/coloradosprings/index.html
A great place to visit and see local attractions: Garden of the Gods,
Seven Falls, Cave of the Winds, Pikes Peak, Cog Railway, Air Force
Academy etc.
(CO) Durango-Silverton (AAA Map of SW US Ref H26):
http://durango.org/. Some of most scenic views in CO. Start point
(Durango) for Durango - Silverton Narrow Gage Steam Railroad:
http://durango.org/durango/train.html &
http://www.visitorinformation.com/durango/train.html. All day trips
through canyons along Animas River. Reservations recommended. Phone:
970-247-2733.or 888-872-4607. Drive from Durango to Silverton & Ouray
highly recommended. Campgrounds & motels available. Also close to Mesa
Verde Nat'l Park. (MUST SEE)
(CO) Great Sand Dunes Nat'l Monument (AAA Map of SW US Ref G/H29):
http://www.nps.gov/grsa/
Located in high (7,800 ft) valley, dunes rise up to 800 ft above floor.
Hike up dunes but shifting sands make difficult. River flowing at base
of dunes 'disappears' into sand. Hike to top considered strenuous.
Hike up Mosca Pass Trail into green forest. Nice large campground.
Flush toilets but no showers. Evening campfire talks by Rangers.
Recommend overnight stay. Motels in nearby Alamosa.
(CO/UT) Hovenweep National Monument (AAA Map of SW US Ref H24/25):
http://www.nps.gov/hove/
An out-of-the-way site in southeastern Utah and southwestern Colorado
about 40 miles west of Cortez, CO. Consists of a main site and several
outlying sites. Main site has small Visitor's Center and small
campground. Lovely walk takes in several ruins around and within small
canyon. Ranger guided walk to rock art. Outlying sites somewhat rough
roads but worth visiting. Solstice markers at Holly site not marked but
worth observing during solstice periods (need guide to show where
located). Motels in nearby Cortez.
(CO) Mesa Verde Nat'l Park (AAA Map of SW US Ref H/I25):
http://www.nps.gov/meve/ and http://mesaverde.org/ and
http://www.gorp.com/gorp/resource/US_National_Park/co_mesa.HTM
Located off US-160 in southwestern Colorado, 10 miles east of Cortez and
about 30 miles west of Durango. Steep climb from highway up onto mesa
area - towed vehicles not allowed past Morefield campground - parking
allowed by entrance station. This is a very popular Park and summer
crowds can be heavy. The best examples of early Native American cliff
dwellings. Views from cliff rims and several Ranger-guided tours
through ruins. Balcony House, Cliff Palace & Long House require tickets
purchased at Visitor's Center (8:00am - 5:00 pm) (1998 rate: $1.75) -
about 15 miles before ruins. Expect waits in line and difficulties in
getting a time you want. Balcony House tour requires climbing ladders &
exit via hands & knees through narrow 'tunnel'. Do it if you can stand
the heights & climb.
Also see the Mesa Top Sites as they provide a history of the evolution
of the living conditions prior to the actual Cliff Dwellings. Guided
commercial tours available from Far View Lodge for morning, afternoon or
all day. Morefield campground (open thru mid-October) has 450 sites and
is almost never completely full but better sites go by noon or so. Deer
wander thru cam areas evenings & mornings (do Not feed). Evening Ranger
programs held at Amphitheater. Commercial Laundromat & pay showers by
campground. Knife Edge Trail an easy walk. Prater Ridge Trail longer
and on top of mesa. Hike up to Lookout Point strenuous but views worth
it (no guard rails). Commercial camping nearby. Far View Lodge inside
Park (advance reservations necessary) & Motels available nearby.
Recommend minimum of 1-2 full days.(MUST SEE)
(CO) Pike's Peak (AAA Map of SW US Ref F29 - west of Colorado
Springs): Famous for 'Pike's Peak or Bust' slogan of early settlers.
Over 14,000 ft elevation west of Colorado Springs. Can drive up or take
Cog Railroad (Manitou Springs). Drive from Colorado Springs to Cripple
Creek via dirt 'Old Gold Camp Road' very scenic. From Cripple Creek to
Canon City via dirt 'Phantom Canyon' road also very scenic (Not for
motor homes or towed trailers). (MUST SEE)
(CO) Royal Gorge (AAA Map of SW US Ref G29 - west of Canon City):
http://electricstores.com/bridge/default.htm
Wooden-planked suspension bridge 1,100 ft over gorge & river. A bit
'Touristy' but worth the visit. May walk or drive smaller vehicles over
bridge or take cable car across. Breath-taking view down.
(NM) Albuquerque (AAA Map of SW US Ref K28):
http://www.viva.com/nm/cen.html
Great place to start your tour. Lots of history here. Don't miss 'Old
Town' for shopping. Great southwest foods. International Hot Air
Balloon Fiesta in late Sept./early Oct (http://www.aibf.org/). Also
Sandia Tramway (Longest aerial tramway) east of Albuquerque. View at
evening sunset is wonderful. Restaurant at top - reservations
recommended.
(NM) Bandelier Nat'l Monument (AAA Map of SW US Ref J28):
http://www.nps.gov/band/
Native American ruins northwest of Santa Fe, NM. Combination of stone
dwellings and caves in soft stone. Small park subject to close due to
overcrowding on weekends. Nice quiet walk through Main Ruins Loop.
Moderately strenuous climb to 'Ceremonial Cave' 140 ft up series of
ladders & steps. Falls Trail below Visitor's Center to view falls and
on to Rio Grande. Frey Trail to/from campground. longer back country
hiking available. Nice but small campground. Flush toilets but no
showers. Evening campfire talks by Rangers. Recommend one full day.
Motels in nearby Los Alamos.
(NM) Chaco (Canyon) Culture Nat'l Historic Park (AAA Map of SW US Ref
J26): http://www.nps.gov/chcu/
Center of Anasazi Native American culture. Large stone ruins - stay off
ruins but walk through many of them very interesting. Several movies at
visitor center - should see. Drive into area via bumpy dirt road (20
miles via south entrance or 11 miles via north entrance) - don't take in
rainy weather. Road discourages many potential visitors but is well
worth the trip (and keeps the crowds small). Campground small & dry.
Take your own water. Flush toilets but no showers. Evening campfire
talks by Rangers. Hiking requires free permit (Visitor's Center).
Pueblo Alto Trail overlooks several ruins - begins behind Kin Kletso
ruin. Take 'Hidden Trail' up to first mesa level & continue up several
more levels - up to 5 mile hike but can take shorter. Don't miss
overlook of Pueblo Bonito. Tsin Kletsin (South Mesa) Trail begins at
Casa Rinconada ruin and goes up to mesa top overlooking much of Canyon.
Front side of trail interesting but back side takes you down some dry &
hot canyons - recommend go as far as canyon overlook on back side and
then come back down front side. Other hikes available. Recommend 1-2
day (2 night) visit. Motels & commercial campgrounds available in
Grants or Bloomfield. (MUST SEE)
(NM) Chama (AAA Map of SW US Ref I28):
http://www.viva.com/nm/nc.chama.html and
http://www.rmii.com/slv/alamosa/ccs/antonito/train.html
One of the most beautiful valleys (8,000 ft altitude) in New Mexico.
Start point for NM end of Cumbres-Toltec Narrow Gage Steam Railroad:
http://www.xpert.net/wedgwood/cumbres/index.html
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/drichter/focts.htm
Phone for reservations: (505) 756-2151. Day trips into mountains with
stop over for lunch - begins at 8,000 ft and climbs to just over 10,000
ft Cumbres Pass. Also starts from Antonito, CO. Departs at 10:30 daily
(Chama)/ 10:00 (Antonito); come early to watch train preparations.
Reservations recommended. Campgrounds & Motels available. Recommend
one day to ride train & another to film train from highway points.
(MUST SEE)
(NM) El Malipais Nat'l Monument (AAA Map of SW US Ref - at Grants):
http://www.nps.gov/elma/
Large area of lava fields created by early volcanic activity. Can view
portions from roads. Rugged trails through lava flow areas - free
permit at Ranger Station in Grants. Check with Rangers as to road
condition before going to the Lava Tubes. Ice caves are commercial
tourist spot. Large natural arch on eastern edge of area just off paved
road (NM 117).
(NM) El Morro Nat'l Monument (AAA Map of SW US Ref L26):
http://www.nps.gov/elmo/
Also known as 'Inscription Rock'. Prehistoric Native American markings
as well as early Spanish & American explorers. Large pool of water was
important stopping place in this arid region. Inscription Trail easy
walk on paved surface. Mesa Top Trail nice hike up cliffs for views and
Native American ruins. Nice but small campground. Pit toilets and no
showers. Evening campfire talks by Rangers. Campgrounds & motels in
nearby Grants. Recommend day visit.
(NM) Rio Grande Gorge Bridge (AAA Map of SW US Ref I29): Located on
highway 64, northwest of Taos. Drop of over 600 ft to Rio Grande River
at bottom of gorge. Drive along highway 64 from Taos to Chama very
scenic. Also, white water rafting around Taos.
(UT) Arches Nat'l Park (AAA Map of SW US Ref G24):
http://www.nps.gov/arch/
Also: http://www.canyonlands-utah.com/archn.html
Just north of Moab, UT, this area contains the most natural arches in a
relatively small area. Lovely hikes from short to moderately long.
Especially nice are Devils Garden/ Landscape Arch (moderate) and
Delicate Arch (moderately strenuous) - don't miss Delicate Arch even if
you have to take the easy viewpoint rather than the hike up to it. Nice
but small campground hard to get into - space available early AM. Flush
toilets but no showers. Evening campfire talks by Rangers. Recommend 2
days minimum. Motels & campgrounds available in nearby Moab. Also see
Canyonlands & Dead Horse Point. (MUST SEE).
(UT) Bryce Canyon Nat'l Park (AAA Map of SW US Ref H21):
http://www.nps.gov/brca/
Not really a canyon but the edge of a mesa that has been eroded by water
and left spectacular views. Lookout points from long drive along top of
mesa. Lots of hiking. Several nice hikes down through scenic areas.
Navajo Loop Trail and Queen's Garden Trail can be done together. Hint:
Start at Sunset Point as trail is steeper there and easier to go down.
Two large campgrounds but park is very busy. Flush toilets but no
showers. Showers & commercial camping available outside park. Evening
campfire talks by Rangers. Recommend 2 days. Motels outside park
(MUST SEE)
(UT) Canyonlands Nat'l Park (AAA Map of SW US Ref G/H23/24):
http://www.nps.gov/cany/
also: http://www.canyonlands-utah.com/
A very large area located west of Moab, UT. Upper regions of Grand
Canyon. Many views only can be reached by 4 wheel drive vehicles.
Tours available from Moab. Motels and campgrounds in Moab. Consists of
three 'districts':
Island in the Sky (Northern area): US-191 about 10 miles north of Moab
to UT313. West & south to Park. Paved road all the way to Grand View
Point - lovely drive. (Note: Dead Horse Point State Park turnoff is
found about 18 miles into UT-313 - see below). Drive down/up Shaffer
Trail (dirt) not for 'faint-hearted' (1,200 ft drop in about 2 mile
drive) but worth every 'gut-wrenching' moment (Not for motor homes or
towed trailers). Hiking trails available but very hot in summer - take
lots of water. Water not available in the Island area but is available
in Dead Horse Point. Recommend one day for this area and Dead Horse
Point (see below).
The Needles (Southern area): US-191 about 40 miles south of Moab to
UT-211. West about 50 miles (all paved) to Visitor's Center - lovely
drive. Newspaper Rock (about 12 miles along UT-211 - see below).
Camping (pit toilets) & hiking trails available but very hot in summer -
take lots of water. Water available spring through fall. Four-wheel
drive roads are just that - need high clearance. Recommend one day.
The Maze (Western area): The most primitive area and not many casual
visitors. Lots of dirt roads and no water available. Have full gas
tank and take lots of water. From Ut-24 or 95, take paved (some) and
dirt (lots) roads to overlooks. Worthwhile for dedicated but not for
casual visitor. Primitive camping & hiking available.
(UT) Capitol Reef Nat'l Park (AAA Map of SW US Ref G/H22):
http://www.nps.gov/care/
Spectacular views from along scenic drive areas. Mostly paved but some
dirt to enter canyon areas. Be sure to take Scenic Drive. Hiking
available. Nice but small campground located in fruit orchard. Flush
toilets but no showers. Evening campfire talks by Rangers. Full day
recommended. Limited motels.
(UT) Dead Horse Point State Park (AAA Map of SW US Ref G24):
http://www.canyonlands-utah.com/
Very spectacular view point overlooking Colorado river (2,000 ft
below). View seems to change by time of day. Lovely drive just
northwest of Moab & Arches Nat'l Park. Continue further to view Island
In The Sky area of Canyonlands. Leave 'Pucker Pass' to the Pros. Nice
but small campground. Flush toilets but no showers. Recommend one day.
(MUST SEE)
(UT) Newspaper Rock State Historic Monument: (AAA Map of SW US Ref
H24): http://www.canyonlands-utah.com/newsn.html
A vast collection of early Native American rock drawings. Located along
state road 211 into Canyonlands The Needles area. Views along drive &
past Newspaper Rock worth effort. Motels & camping in nearby Moab.
(UT) Moab (AAA Map of SW US Ref G24):
http://virtual.moab.ut.us/
http://www.canyonlands-utah.com/moabn.html
Center of spectacular red rock scenery areas. Also, white water rafting
in Colorado river and jeep tours of Canyonlands areas. Motels &
Campgrounds available. Mountain scenery in nearby LaSal mountains.
(MUST SEE)
(UT) Zion Nat'l Park (AAA Map of SW US Ref H/I20):
http://www.nps.gov/zion
Magnificent views along road. Scenic Drive subject to crowding. Hiking
available from easy to strenuous. Drive through Park offers different
views when driving East to West and West to East. Cinemax theater
(Springdale) worth seeing. Two campgrounds in park. National
Reservation Service: 1-800-365-CAMP Motels & campgrounds available
nearby.
Native American Music: Check at Park Visitor Centers for music by R.
Carlos Nakai. Wonderful wood flute music (sometimes accompanied by
William Eaton on strings). Some of my favorite albums are: Canyon
Trilogy, Desert Dance, Carry the Gift, Sundance Season, Feather Stone &
Light and Changes. Also available through Canyon Records:
http://www.canyonrecords.com/artnakai.htm and some local music stores.
Mo Drew
Mo
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For Free BC & Western Canada Information,
Car Rentals, Accommodation, Tour Packages,
some info on the US Southwest,
plus informative netsite links, visit
http://www.cow-net.com/modrew/
andykk wrote in message <372d...@nemo.idirect.com>...
>Hi,
>
>Planning to see US Southwest in mid June for one month with our 22ft class
C
>in mid June. So far planned to see Monument Valley, Mesa Verde, Petrified
>Forest, Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Grand Teton and Yellowstone. The
>following advices are required:
>
>1. What Inter-State Highway to avoid on this trip in terms of driving
>difficulties? I live in Ontario, Canada.
>2. Information suggests Monument valley is privately run and not much you
>can drive and hike without a guide. Is it true and how's other people's
>experience in enjoying this place by RV?
>3. Information suggests Death valley NP requires high clearance vehicle or
>4X vehicle. Is it true and what are the campgrounds and scenic spots that
>are accessible by RV? BTW, is condition really that bad or harsh as
>information suggested?
>4. Information suggests campgrounds in Yellowstone NP are always full.
Will
>NP allow RVs to camp along roadside or spillover area if campgrounds are
>full?
>
Del Stanley
>
> Hi,
>
> Planning to see US Southwest in mid June for one month with our 22ft class C
> in mid June. So far planned to see Monument Valley, Mesa Verde, Petrified
> Forest, Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Grand Teton and Yellowstone. The
> following advices are required:
>
> 1. What Inter-State Highway to avoid on this trip in terms of driving
> difficulties? I live in Ontario, Canada.
I believe others have posted most of the information you require.
I will add some thoughts on the U.S. interstate highway system.
It is the best roads system we have. It will accomodate your vehicle.
Otherwise if the best highway roads are insufficient for your vehicle,
they never would have been built, or bought. Common carriers such as
18 wheelers, tractor trailers, double trailers, etc. are common sites
on the interstate system.
It is not worry free however. The most worrisome portion on the
interstate system for driving big rigs (or any vehicle) is that
stretch of highway on I-70 west of Denver, CO. As you approach the
Eisenhower Tunnel/Continental Divide, I believe you are on THE
highest section (elevation) of road in the U.S. interstate highway
system. It is literally a HIGHway. There is nothing wrong with the
road; no sinuous turns, or ledges to fall off of. All roads on
the I-sytems must meet the same construction and material standards.
Rather it is the sheer elevation and gravity. Big rigs will
s-t-r-a-i-n, and s-t-r-a-i-n into a crawl as they gain elevation.
If you have any problems with your brakes, transmission, fuel
delivery system, you will find out about it here. This is the
last place you will want to find out about these problems!
On the "downside" you may come roaring down. Notice the many
"Runaway Truck" ramps.
As already mentioned, our interstate highway system is excellent,
and s/b able to handle all types/sizes of passenger vehicles. But
this is not always true for some of the secondary roads.
If you are coming from Ontario, your approach to Yellowstone
would probably be from the northeast on U.S. state highway 212,
the Beartooth Highway. This is the most scenic approach to the
park. BUT, you may want to avoid driving on it in an RV. I am
not sure if RVs are allowed; maybe they are, maybe not. The 69
miles (111 km) drive from Red Lodge, MT takes about 2 hours to
the park's northeast entrance. You will drive through Beartooth
Pass at 11,000 feet. There are many dizzying swithbacks. I don't
own a RV, but I would probably be a nervous wreck if I were
driving one on this road.
For the RVer, you may experience little or no nail biting if
you take the easier all season approach from Livingston, MT
on U.S. 89.
Also good for Rvers is the west entrance, 60 miles (97km) from
Ashton, ID.
You also mentioned that you would be in the Monument Valley, Mesa
Verde area. If you are going to be in the Four Corners area
it is too bad you are not including Arches NP, and Canyonlands
(Northern district). Two of my most favorite places.
In any event, I'm pretty sure you will greatly enjoy the trip.
And as always, check those brakes.
H.W. Bayles
>
>It is not worry free however. The most worrisome portion on the
>interstate system for driving big rigs (or any vehicle) is that
>stretch of highway on I-70 west of Denver, CO. As you approach the
>Eisenhower Tunnel/Continental Divide, I believe you are on THE
>highest section (elevation) of road in the U.S. interstate highway
>system. It is literally a HIGHway. There is nothing wrong with the
>road; no sinuous turns, or ledges to fall off of. All roads on
>the I-sytems must meet the same construction and material standards.
>
>
I've ever encountered in the whole interstate system. It will
literally beat your rig to death. Approaching Denver from the east,
you're better off on a US highway (it's US-40 as I recall) or a state
highway.
The last time I drove east of Denver on I-70 the big rigs had so
thoroughly demolished the outside (#2) lane that signs had been posted
reading "Trucks use center (#1) lane."
Clearly, all roads on the I-systems do NOT meet the same construction
and materials standards.
Found much the same problem on I-10 in Texas several years ago, but it
eventually got fixed. Two years ago it was much improved, anthough I
think I-10 around San Antonio is in a permanent state of "under
construction."
BTW, if you're going to be near the southeast corner of Utah, be sure
to take in Canyon Lands and Arches Nat'l parks. They're spectacular.
Spend a couple of nights in Moab and take a jeep tour through the
area. It's money well spent.
ASAP Screenprint Co. - here for you!
Yellowstone ANYTIME is not enjoyable - way to
many people. Roads are packed with tourist buses, and
since the great fire no longer a green, lush, mountain area.
Can't "pull of the road to camp" in Yellowstone - you can
hardly make it through the park in an RV given all the cars,
bikes, buses and walkers.
Death Valley is super in the winter months. Yellowstone is a
"never again" with our family.
Grand Canyon is almost the same as Yellowstone - avoid the
summer (tourist) months.
Try Idaho and Montana along I90. Try the California coast
redwoods Highway 1 north of Willits.
Try Oregon and the Rogue River areas.
Good luck and happy vacationing,
Scott
andykk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Planning to see US Southwest in mid June for one month with our 22ft class C
> in mid June. So far planned to see Monument Valley, Mesa Verde, Petrified
> Forest, Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Grand Teton and Yellowstone. The
> following advices are required:
>
> 1. What Inter-State Highway to avoid on this trip in terms of driving
> difficulties? I live in Ontario, Canada.
> 2. Information suggests Monument valley is privately run and not much you
> can drive and hike without a guide. Is it true and how's other people's
> experience in enjoying this place by RV?
> 3. Information suggests Death valley NP requires high clearance vehicle or
> 4X vehicle. Is it true and what are the campgrounds and scenic spots that
> are accessible by RV? BTW, is condition really that bad or harsh as
> information suggested?
> 4. Information suggests campgrounds in Yellowstone NP are always full. Will
> NP allow RVs to camp along roadside or spillover area if campgrounds are
> full?
>
> Any advices will be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Andy
> and...@idirect.com
--
Take me to ASAP online
For the best in custom printed Tshirts!
George Lowry
wrote:
>
>For the RVer, you may experience little or no nail biting if
>you take the easier all season approach from Livingston, MT
>on U.S. 89.
The approach to the park is not bad, however, once inside the park you
are faced with steep climbs preceded by hairpin curves on narrow roads
that are poorly maintained. And a lot of impatient four-wheelers that
can't wait to get ahead of you and then stop in the middle of the road
for sight seeing.
I highly recommend going around to the west entrance. The road is in
good condition, level, wide, and leads to the best of the Campgrounds,
Madison Jct. It is centrally located and allows for day trips in each
direction, north & south.
Del Stanley
>
> Death Valley in summer is not enjoyable!
> Yellowstone ANYTIME is not enjoyable - way to
> many people. Roads are packed with tourist buses, and
> since the great fire no longer a green, lush, mountain area.
>
> Can't "pull of the road to camp" in Yellowstone - you can
> hardly make it through the park in an RV given all the cars,
> bikes, buses and walkers.
>
> Death Valley is super in the winter months. Yellowstone is a
> "never again" with our family.
>
> Grand Canyon is almost the same as Yellowstone - avoid the
> summer (tourist) months.
I too thought Yellowstone and The Grand Canyon were very crowded in
the summer. Until I went to Banff NP in Alberta one August. The original
poster is from Ontario. I suspect he/she may have already
driven west and been to Banff. If they can handle Banff, they can
handle Yellowstone, and GC.
Crowded or not, I think everyone who loves parks should see these
places at least one in their lifetime. Being natural wonders in
the world carries a price. Suggesting one NEVER see these awesome
places is not in me.
Yes indeed, I got irked when people stopped their cars on the road
to take a picture of a jackrabbit! Or of a common house cat jumping
out of the car. And yes, they are probably thinking they are seeing
something wild, and are National Geographic photographers capturing
the moment. It is a drag, and I may or may not go again, but I'm glad
I went to Yellowstone once.
I continue to go to the GC. It all depends on what one is trying to
experience. I hike/backpack. Once you go beyond a half mile in
any park, the crowds rapidly dissipate. The hiking trial head
sign/symbol means "do not enter" to many visitors. The trail
can still get crowded at GC, but it is still worth it however.
The North Rim of course is vastly less crowded.
Doug Armknecht
>>
>> Death Valley in summer is not enjoyable!
>> Yellowstone ANYTIME is not enjoyable - way to
>> many people. Roads are packed with tourist buses, and
>
>any park, the crowds rapidly dissipate.
Definitely. I don't think Yellowstone is too bad, even in the
touristy areas. The only place that's really, really crowded is Old
Faithful at midday. But if it's too much, find a trailhead and hike even
for a few minutes. Being alone at a small backcountry waterfall can do
wonders for your patience. Even the Upper Geyser Basin boardwalks aren't
too bad if you keep walking.
--
Doug Armknecht, dha...@cis.ksu.edu
sparky
is spectacular and uncrowded. Be sure to take the guided hike down
into the valley. The red rock country in Utah rival anything you'll
see in yellowstone.
Mke Christenson
Have fun and stay safe,
Mike Christenson
sys...@ktc.com
H.W. Bayles wrote in message <372ea369.4958769@news>...
>
<snip>
Klaus Schmidt
"ASAP Screenprint Co. - here for you!" wrote:
> Yellowstone ANYTIME is not enjoyable - way to
> many people. Roads are packed with tourist buses, and
> since the great fire no longer a green, lush, mountain area.
> Grand Canyon is almost the same as Yellowstone - avoid the
> summer (tourist) months.
That makes me a little unhappy. I (we) are from Germany and plan to spend our
holydays over there starting the 12 th of August in Las Vegas.
I hope it will not become too bad.
Klaus
Klaus Nuber
<3730419D...@gmd.de>...
Take a look at
http://www.suwa.org/WATE/longtoc.html
and browse through the propsed wilderness areas.
There is a great variety of areas to be found in Utah.
Go to elevations above 8000 ft, because in summer its *hot*.
For a starter go to Mt Charleston in the Spring Mountains, one hour NW of
Las Vegas.
Greetings
Klaus
stan_...@hotmail.com
Klaus Schmidt <klaus....@gmd.de> wrote:
>
>
Snip.
>
> That makes me a little unhappy. I (we) are from Germany and plan to spend our
> holydays over there starting the 12 th of August in Las Vegas.
> I hope it will not become too bad.
> Klaus
>
>
yourself. I never let anyone (except my bride) influence where I go or what I
see.
~next time
Stan
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Doug Armknecht
>>
>> That makes me a little unhappy [that Yellowstone is unpleasant].
>>
>Klaus, please don't let someone's opinions change your plans. Go see for
>yourself. I never let anyone (except my bride) influence where I go or what I
>see.
>
Agreed. Don't let *anyone* tell you what Yellowstone is like. See
it for yourself. That said, let me tell you what it's really like.
You'll have to stand with hundreds of people to see Old Faithful. There's
still plenty of room, and you can go to the other side and be virtually
alone. At most places (like canyon overlooks), you may have to stand with
10-20 people. That detracts from the experience a little bit, but the
scenery is so awesome that it's worth it.
--
Doug Armknecht, dha...@cis.ksu.edu
Randy Rohrer
>
> "ASAP Screenprint Co. - here for you!" wrote:
>
> > Yellowstone ANYTIME is not enjoyable - way to
> > many people. Roads are packed with tourist buses, and
> > since the great fire no longer a green, lush, mountain area.
> > Grand Canyon is almost the same as Yellowstone - avoid the
> > summer (tourist) months.
>
> holydays over there starting the 12 th of August in Las Vegas.
> I hope it will not become too bad.
It's certainly true that Grand Canyon is crowded in summer.
However, if my choice was to experience GC with a lot of people
or never experience GC, the choice is easy. It is magical. Go!
--
Randy Rohrer
roh...@erols.com
Alan Hepburn
Randy Rohrer <roh...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> It's certainly true that Grand Canyon is crowded in summer.
> However, if my choice was to experience GC with a lot of people
> or never experience GC, the choice is easy. It is magical. Go!
>
told my wife that I wanted to visit the Grand Canyon. The trip
was planned for august, and she was hesitant - it was going to be
HOT, and she wasn't really thrilled about seeing a "huge hole in the
ground", but she said okay, so long as we also went to places like
Tombstone, and other touristy places.
Well, as we were driving up to the canyon from Williams, there comes
a time when you round that last curve and get your first view of that
"huge hole in the ground" - my wife's jaw dropped open and all she could
say was "wow" - we ended up spending the entire day there, in the August
heat, with about a bazillion other tourists.
Even if you have absolutely no interest in geology, or natural wonders,
it is awe-inspiring to stand on the rim and look out over that "huge
hole in the ground"!
--
Alan Hepburn -- Al...@Hepburn.com -- http://www.Alan.Hepburn.com
"To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people
always possess arms..." - Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters From
The Federal Farmer, 1788
John E. Balch
Skip Las Vegas. They try so hard to make it entertaining, but it seems to
me so garish, that it is just a way to try to get a person into the cassino,
to gamble. Check out Valley of Fire State Park about 50 miles (80KM) north
east of Las Vegas, then just keep going north east on Highway 15 and see
Zion National Park, then the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. Page, Arizona
is the place to go if you want to rent a boat and explore Lake Powell. Ther
are both house boats and speed boats.
Klaus Schmidt
"John E. Balch" wrote:
> Go to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, less people.
Thank you for your message. We will do it. LV is for us the startpoint
for going to Zion Park, Moab etc. After this we fly from LV to West
Yellowstone stax there 4 days and return to Germany.
Klaus
john patton
if you really want the southwest, try new mexico and arizona
http://www.southwest-usa.com
happy trails
john
Klaus Nuber wrote:
>
> Klaus Schmidt <klaus....@gmd.de> wrote in article
> <3730419D...@gmd.de>...
> >
> >
> > "ASAP Screenprint Co. - here for you!" wrote:
> >
> > > Yellowstone ANYTIME is not enjoyable - way to
> > > many people. Roads are packed with tourist buses, and
> > > since the great fire no longer a green, lush, mountain area.
> > > Grand Canyon is almost the same as Yellowstone - avoid the
> > > summer (tourist) months.
> >
> > That makes me a little unhappy. I (we) are from Germany and plan to spend
> our
> > holydays over there starting the 12 th of August in Las Vegas.
> > I hope it will not become too bad.
> > Klaus
> >
>
> Take a look at
>
> http://www.suwa.org/WATE/longtoc.html
>
> and browse through the propsed wilderness areas.
> There is a great variety of areas to be found in Utah.
> Go to elevations above 8000 ft, because in summer its *hot*.
>
> For a starter go to Mt Charleston in the Spring Mountains, one hour NW of
> Las Vegas.
>
> Greetings
>
> Klaus
--
===================================
John Pat Patton
Southwest-USA
http://www.southwest-usa.com
==========================================
Mike Murtagh
Grand Canyon. It is a little longer trip from Phoenix but much less crowded
and the same views. The North Rim is actually higher in elevation and would
be slightly cooler in the Summer months.
Regards Mike Murtagh
Randy Rohrer wrote in message <3730F6CB...@erols.com>...
>Klaus Schmidt wrote:
>>
>> "ASAP Screenprint Co. - here for you!" wrote:
>>
>> > Yellowstone ANYTIME is not enjoyable - way to
>> > many people. Roads are packed with tourist buses, and
>> > since the great fire no longer a green, lush, mountain area.
>> > Grand Canyon is almost the same as Yellowstone - avoid the
>> > summer (tourist) months.
>>
>> That makes me a little unhappy. I (we) are from Germany and plan to spend
our
>> holydays over there starting the 12 th of August in Las Vegas.
>> I hope it will not become too bad.
>
>
>However, if my choice was to experience GC with a lot of people
>or never experience GC, the choice is easy. It is magical. Go!
>
>Randy Rohrer
>roh...@erols.com
Bob Graham
you are down in the canyon looking up; Bryce you are up on top looking
down. Zion has large spectacular monuments; Bryce is delicate and full
of color. The two both benefit from mutual comparison. We always try to
see both together and have never tired of them.
Yellowstone is a "must see" place in the US. Yes, it may be somewhat
crowded in summer (we prefer spring and fall) but it is spectacular and
worth the trip.
When you get back home please write and tell us your impression.
Aloha - bob \ooo_
--
...............
http://www.aloha.net/~bgraham
John E. Balch
Pete
<klaus....@gmd.de> wrote:
>> Yellowstone ANYTIME is not enjoyable - way too
>> many people.
>> Grand Canyon is almost the same as Yellowstone - avoid the
>> summer (tourist) months.
>
>That makes me a little unhappy. I (we) are from Germany and plan to spend our
>holydays over there starting the 12 th of August in Las Vegas.
Klaus,
I suspect you know this, but the summer months are unbelievably hot in
the America Southwest. 38C to 43C (100F to 110F) will be the average
daytime high, with 46C (115F) days certainly possible. Be forewarned.
Pete
Pete
>
>Go to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, less people.
I wholeheartedly agree! The north rim is a gem. Visit it first, then
hit the south rim if you want more. When you do get to the south rim
and find parking hard and the mass of people objectionable, you can
leave knowing you've seen the better half.
Pete
Pete
<klaus....@gmd.de> wrote:
>> Go to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, less people.
>
>Thank you for your message. We will do it. LV is for us the startpoint
>for going to Zion Park, Moab etc. After this we fly from LV to West
>Yellowstone stax there 4 days and return to Germany.
Monument Valley in Arizona is a spectacular drive if you like just
wandering through miles of scenery with no particular destination in
mind. But I think it's too far south for your trip.
Pete
A true Yopper, DAN
Then we travelled down to Yellowstone and Grand Tetons National Parks.
On our way home, we spent 3 days at Mount Rushmore National Monument
and we travel east through the Badlands National Park.
If you have the time, these are two good stops heading towards or
leaving from Yellowstone National Park. Another good one to see is
Devil's Tower, Wyoming.
I wish you a great and safe trip. Let everyone know how your trip went
when you get back. Happy Trails!
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
Mike Gormley
> Last year, my wife and I went out west to Glacier National Park, MT.
> Then we travelled down to Yellowstone and Grand Tetons National Parks.
> On our way home, we spent 3 days at Mount Rushmore National Monument
> and we travel east through the Badlands National Park.
>
> If you have the time, these are two good stops heading towards or
> leaving from Yellowstone National Park. Another good one to see is
> Devil's Tower, Wyoming.
>
> I wish you a great and safe trip. Let everyone know how your trip went
> when you get back. Happy Trails!
>
>
Hmmm! Sounds like a trip to the Northwest to me. :-)
--
Mike Gormley
Delta, OH
Jim Martin
and Las Vegas.
The north rim of the Grand Canyon is comfortable as is Zion and Bryce
Canyons ( which I feel are better places to go to) also try the SW
loop of Colorado - Durango, Silverton, Ouray, Telluride, Cortez. In
AZ- Flagstaff and also the White mountains are also very nice in the
summer. These are places that we visit in the summer months where the
temps average 60-85 F There is also -Santa FE and Taos in Nem Mexico
Good luck,
Jim Martin
On Sun, 16 May 1999 19:06:57 GMT, pet...@yahoo.com (Pete) wrote:
dmanddmer
down to the Joshua Tree National Park, close to the Mexico border about
halfway between Phoenix and Puerto Penasco, Mexico. Very much worth the
trip!
David M.
Jim Martin wrote:
>
> The southwest is not only the low desert 100-115 F temps like Phoenix
> and Las Vegas.
> The north rim of the Grand Canyon is comfortable as is Zion and Bryce
> Canyons ( which I feel are better places to go to) also try the SW
> loop of Colorado - Durango, Silverton, Ouray, Telluride, Cortez. In
> AZ- Flagstaff and also the White mountains are also very nice in the
> summer. These are places that we visit in the summer months where the
> temps average 60-85 F There is also -Santa FE and Taos in Nem Mexico
> Good luck,
> Jim Martin
>
> On Sun, 16 May 1999 19:06:57 GMT, pet...@yahoo.com (Pete) wrote:
><<<snip>>>
Don Low
> down to the Joshua Tree National Park, close to the Mexico border about
> halfway between Phoenix and Puerto Penasco, Mexico. Very much worth the
> trip!
>
> David M.
Joshua Tree National Park is in California near Palm Springs. You must
be thinking of Organ Pipe Cactus National Momument which is in Arizona
adjacent to the Mexician border just south of Ajo, Arizona.
Don, retired in Tracy, Calif.
marc
specatacular. take the 1/2 day hike with a guide down into the
canyon. Lots of evidence of early dwellers and their pictorial
history carved into the canyon wall.
On Tue, 18 May 1999 10:02:13 -0400, Mike Gormley <del...@bright.net>
wrote:
dmanddmer
However, there were quite a few Joshua trees there, too.
David
Buzz Cut
you take? We took the ~20 mile loop due to time constraints. I'll bet the
long loop is great.
--
Dave
use daveparr@cwix dot com to reply.
dmanddmer <dmer...@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:37445418...@hiwaay.net...
brian
Buzz Cut wrote:
>
> He is correct. We visited Organ Pipe just a few months ago. Which loop did
> you take? We took the ~20 mile loop due to time constraints. I'll bet the
> long loop is great.
I have completed both loops and the short, eastern, one is IMHO much more scenic.
Especially at the end of the day. The longer, western loop is long, especially the
southern half that parallels the Mexican border. You drive about ten miles right
alongside a major Mexican hwy. complete with trucks busses. AND all the while you get to
pull over for high speed Boarder Patrol vehicles chasing what I would suppose were the
bad guys. Also at the extreme south west corner of the loop was a water hole that was
right on the boarder. Sounds nice? Well the many signs warning us to not leave our car
unattended and the parks brochures warning of violence kept us moving along. If I were
to do it again I would only drive the northern half of the eastern loop, turn around at
the old mine and return back along the same route, that part was worth the effort.
The camp itself is very nice, and I intend to do it again this winter for a few days.
brian