Warranties - Soap Box
Yocum@aol.com-nospam Butch
The MH is 2 years new, within 1 week, two "Bigfoot" by Quadra jacks would
not work. Found out it
was a switch which tells the system if the jack is down. Called Quadra and
found out their warranty is only good for the original purchaser. Even
though the jacks would still be under warranty, because I am not the
original purchaser they will not cover the $20 part. Another 3 weeks and two
jacks leak fluid. One would not retract.
Because I purchased an extended warranty, that I was assured would cover the
jacks, I was not too concerned.
Took the MH in for repair today. The repair facility tells me that because
the extended warranty is less that 90 days old that the jacks would probably
not be covered. They said the warranty people are notorious for not covering
things and they could just say that it was a previously existing condition.
I'll wait for a few more weeks to turn in a claim for the jacks.
I was very unhappy with the support and response. Needless to say, when I
replace them it will be with a HWH or RVA!
Come to find out, Gulf Stream has the same warranty. This coach was an
"un-wind". This means that the original purchaser never really "bought" it
technically but, because it was already registered in his name the coach was
considered as used to the actual first purchaser. This alleviated Gulf
Stream and Quadra from any warranty claims. As everyone knows reading this
group, RV's are notorious for having initial and continuing defects which
would normally be covered under warranty.
My questions to the group:
1) If a product is deemed good enough to have a "5 year warranty", why only
to the original purchaser?
2) Why would a manufacturer do this, especially on RV's that get traded
every 2-3 years?
3) Has anyone heard of auto manufacturers or any other industry doing this
type of warranty?
4) What can we do as consumers to change this policy?
5) Are there other RV manufactures which limit their warranties to the
original purchaser?
6) Are extended warranties worth the price of the paper they are printed on?
Which ones, if any are good?
7) Anyone else have similar experiences?
I know this is not the normal which battery, how much propane, when does the
black holding tank freeze type of question. Thanks for your ears and
comments anyway.
Another Butch
Will Sill
>My questions to the group:
>1) If a product is deemed good enough to have a "5 year warranty", why only
>to the original purchaser?
Not answerable.
>2) Why would a manufacturer do this, especially on RV's that get traded
>every 2-3 years?
To avoid responsibility for defects. What else?
>3) Has anyone heard of auto manufacturers or any other industry doing this
>type of warranty?
Yes, it is not uncommon.
>4) What can we do as consumers to change this policy?
Shop with eyes wide open and BS detector at max. sensitivity
>5) Are there other RV manufactures which limit their warranties to the
>original purchaser?
I dunno but probably.
>6) Are extended warranties worth the price of the paper they are printed on?
>Which ones, if any are good?
Hard question - sorta like "Are wives worth the hassle?" (Mine is)
My daughter is shopping for an extended warranty and it is an absolute
circus. Each guy peddling one swears his covers "almost everything",
is honored "everywhere" AND that all other warranties are useless crap
that shops won't honor, won't pay up, etc, ad nauseum. Don't even
think about buying one without personally doing some research and
asking yourself whether stashing a couple of $$k in the bank rather
than paying for the warranty. (Asking for opinions here only qualifies
as research if you don't care whether the data mean anything!)
>7) Anyone else have similar experiences?
Probably - but not me - I don't buy new MH's, extended warranties, or
the NY Times.
On your treatment by the dealer/maker - you have ben screwed without
benefit of clergy, IMO
Will Sill
Mike F
As with ANY insurance policy, if the average buyer didn't lose, the insurer
would go bankrupt. It's just arithmetic.
Mike
"Butch" <Butch Yo...@aol.com-nospam> wrote in message
news:HuCZ9.40223$QV3.4...@news2.west.cox.net...
Rudy
> Come to find out, Gulf Stream has the same warranty.
Go to www.rvreviews.com and "Search" for (Gulfstream) SeaHawk..I believe
its a Gulfstream 5th wheel line..
Scary !!!
RNBDMV
warranty, poor engineering and yatata, yatata, yat.
Someone claiming to represent a consumer action group emailed me a few years
ago claiming I had posted over 1000 comments on various groups about RV
problems. Maybe he was right!
The only way there is ever going to be a major improvement in the way RV
manufacturers treat their customers is after the industry gets hit with some
major class action suits. So far, the people who spend so much money on their
RVs seem unwilling to take action against the RV makers. How strange, people
who have problems with 'stick built' homes seem ready and willing to take the
builder(s) to court, but when it comes to their RVs they keep making excuses
like 'well the unit realy isn't that bad' and yatata, yatata, yat.Give me a
break! Water systems that leak, water heaters that can burn the outside of the
RV and sound like jet engines, furnaces that may leak CO and propane, fridges
that don't work and also may leak propane, drawer slides that are so flimsy
they break after a few hundred miles of travel, galley ranges where the gas is
full on or off with no in between, running gear that doesn't stand up, brakes
that wear out after a few applications.The list is endless. One of my pet
peeves is missing documentation so that after the so called warranty is over
you don't know who made what in your unit because the RV builder didn't include
the docs for the windows or door latch or the plumbing or whatever. Another pet
peeve of mine is Winnebago, calling the customer support line for technical
information can get you the smug response 'we don't supply that information to
customers'. I could write a book about RV problems after 30+ years 'on the
road'. I am getting toward the end of 'on the road' but my dislike of how the
RV industry (and it's dealers) treat the customer will be with me untill I die.
Ross
ww...@cwnet.com
motorhomes. The manufacturers are responding but it is such a large
job, it is going to take a while.
phil Willen
imports to get american car makers to change systems that had
been the same since the 1930's. Maybe it could happen.
Who knows?
Will Sill
>The only way there is ever going to be a major improvement in the way RV
>manufacturers treat their customers is after the industry gets hit with some
>major class action suits.
Bullshit. What is needed - and will not happen - is more informed
consumers who refuse to buy crap. We do NOT need more lawyering -
the country is drowning in lawsuits now.
Will Sill
HocusPocus
state in which it was purchased. Some States with a proactive consumer AG
now prohibit limiting warranty to first purchaser as applied to Motor
Vehicles.
HP
"Will Sill" <wi...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:uljf3vssvn0cc8les...@4ax.com...
Mike F
available here yet.
Mike
"phil Willen" <irp...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3E379527...@earthlink.net...
Wade
> imports to get american car makers to change systems that had
> been the same since the 1930's. Maybe it could happen.
> Who knows?
>
It has taken Honda many years to find the one thing that also sells and that
is quality, however there are still hundreds of rust buckets around to
attest to the fact that Honda was no different from the rest of the pack. We
don't need Japanese to show us how to build anything, what we need is
smarter consumers that don't go ahead and buy RV's and after the fact ask
for opinions, and nobody has the heart to tell them what dorks they where.
Wade
Yocum@aol.com-nospam Butch
This is a C&P of the e-mail I received from the VP of Quadra. Boilerplate.
If anyone wants to contact Quadra with your views, please do! Hopefully it
will be in line of: "I won't buy your product untill you change the warranty
caviot."
Thank You for taking time to e-Mail and to call us. I'm responding back to
you to answer the 2 questions you raised about our product. First let say
when you compare the competitor you'll find our warranty supercedes all
others. For example if you had HWH the warranty would have expired all
together in just 1 year. This is not the case with us provided you are the
original owner.
This is a standard policy with many products on the market. Very rarely
does it affect a customer in negative way. We are truly sorry you've had
any problems but we will be here to serve you should the need a arise,
again.
Sincerely,
Rich Keene
VP Quadra Mfg. Inc.
Larry DeMers
That is not totally accurate. Back in 1976, Honda had their little Civic out.
The US was unable to get their cars to increase in mileage sufficiently to meet
the government guidelines. Honda was able to do so, and in fact they
challenged Ford to send them just the head from one of their engines, and they
would increase the mileage of that engine by 20%. 6 mn later, the head came
back, and it did indeed, extend the mileage of the engine by 20%.
They knew at the beginning what sold..quality and accuracy in assembly.
I have owned perhaps 10 cars since then..all Honda or Honda based (Acura).
I have never had to return a car to the dealer for any problem in all that
time. I think if we weren't so damn smug, we would learn from Honda and put
out a better product, making more money.
HDinNY
I trust you emailed him back and told him you are going to
replace his crap with HWH.
HD in FL
Just Me
> Mercedes already makes a Class B, based on their Sprinter van. It's not
> available here yet.
>
Well, since Dodge will be selling Sprinters soon, there might be a chance
that we might see some.
Tom Marik
to get information privately, deal with a reputable manufacture and buy a
quality RV without the state of Kansas getting involved. I don't want the feds
to help me decide to upgrade to load range G tires.
Tom
Mike F
them. I would have bought one instead of my 24-foot Winnie if the Sprinters
came a little bigger.
Mike
"Just Me" <s31924...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:v3gldna...@corp.supernews.com...
IF YOU CAN'T SWIM DON'T JUMP IN
Re: Warranties - Soap Box
FUNNY
HONDA the people who built my 2001
1800 GOLD WING ended up taking my
$20,000.00 BIKE BACK
it was unsafe and ALL the recalls were REASONS to be scared to get on
it.
i must thank them my 1882 GOLD WING
<made in JAPAN> IS RUNNING GREAT
funny there new plants in the US!
kc
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Tom G
current and previous car was/is a Mazda Protégé, made in Hiroshima (does
that name ring a bell?). Great cars, no problems. When I bought an
American product ten years ago, it was a used Lincoln Continental. Worse
car I EVER owned. It cost me $2.00 a mile to run it, and I got rid of it
after one year. Vowed at that time never to buy another American car. Even
would try to avoid Japanese cars made in USA. Sorry it has come to that.
"IF
Mike F
charity at 245,000 miles, it still cruised very reliably at over 90 mph, had
never had any engine or transmission work past routine maintenance -- not
even years after a blown hose made the engine seize on the freeway -- and
all on the original timing chain, no less. Did she buy another one? You bet
... even though I tried to talk her into any of several German cars.
Mike
"Tom G" <tgif at surewest dot net> wrote in message
news:v3hbcpb...@corp.supernews.com...
Will Sill
>Got to agree. I won't buy any car unless it is a Japanese product.
With logic like that, some people actually live an otherwise
uneventful life.
I suppose you know most HOndas are made in te USA eh?
Will Sill
Wade
"Larry DeMers" <dem...@sgi.com> wrote in message
news:3E382003...@sgi.com...
And then they moved the factory to Canada and the US to produce that
quality.
Wade
Tom G
Actually, I owned a nice Toyota Corolla assembled in Freemont, CA. Very
good car. It surely does get confusing because I suppose all cars have
parts that are manufactured from all over. The assembly point is only part
of the story. I think the US automakers screwed themselves in the '70s by
producing bad cars. Poor design, poor gas mileage, poor quality. That
reputation follows them today, IMHO.
phil Willen
Will Sill wrote:
I suppose you know most HOndas are made in te USA eh?
They're still made to high standards. 2, 3, or even 400000 miles
is not uncommon. Toyota makes an excellent car as well.
If you check out the annual Consumers Union survey, you
can find out about car reliability.
Larry DeMers
Will,
yup..in Marysville, OH. They started in 1996, producing the Accord.
I bought one. At 9000 miles, teh brakes would shimmie when applied, and
the vibes went thru to the wheel too. Went to Honda, they said that the
rotor was warped, so they ground it down..gave the car back to me.
Another 9k and the same thing happened. Went back tot he dealer for that
and they said virtually the same words to me. Interestingly, as I was
sitting in the waiting area of the dealership, another Accord came in,
same complaint..the attendant that was writting down the complaint
said..humm, never heard that happen before. So then another Accord came
in..same complaint, and the attendant said the same thing to that
person. Happened several more times that day and on 2 more succeeding
visits. After 4 tries, I contacted the district service manager for
Honda..and got nowhere. Came to learn later that Honda had put out
uncured rotors in 1996, 1997. Apparently there is a heat treatment that
thye are supposed to be put through and that was not done for some
reason. The rotors warped. After grinding mine down 4 times, they said
that is all they would do..and the replacement rotor was on my bill.
I sold the car the next day amd bought an Acura Integra, built in
Japan. That is the car I have stuck with since then, and current I
drive a 1992 Acura RSX..a fantastic car.
Larry
phil Willen
Larry DeMers wrote:
'bought an Acura Integra"
Made by Honda.
Diesel Guy
for people 5'10". I am 6'3" and hate to get in these cars. Even the so
called "Full Size" models are a tight fit. I have resorted to driving full
sized trucks for the head and leg room. Now there are a lot of American
cars that are in the same boat. Heck the Ford Crown Vick makes me have to
bend in odd ways to get in and out of and I still hit my head. I know
smaller is cheaper but give me a break.
On the RV quality note........ If you want to make a change in the RV
world you have to band together. It would take a lot of work and numerous
rallies in Washington DC (Like a 1000 RVs driving the streets of DC with
banners that list the complaints and concerns of the voting RV community).
I would love to see that. Every road in DC locked up solid with RVs. No
one able to move around. All the politicians would have to walk to work.
Now this would have to be well organized so that the streets could be
cleared in the event of an emergency, don't want any bad press if some poor
soul died because the ambulance could not get to the hospital or something.
Oh well just food for thought
Ken
"Tom G" <tgif at surewest dot net> wrote in message
news:v3hbcpb...@corp.supernews.com...
Will Sill
>On the RV quality note........ If you want to make a change in the RV
>world you have to band together. It would take a lot of work and numerous
>rallies in Washington DC (Like a 1000 RVs driving the streets of DC with
>banners that list the complaints and concerns of the voting RV community).
>I would love to see that. Every road in DC locked up solid with RVs. No
>one able to move around. All the politicians would have to walk to work.
>Now this would have to be well organized so that the streets could be
>cleared in the event of an emergency, don't want any bad press if some poor
>soul died because the ambulance could not get to the hospital or something.
Any bunch of morons can destroy, obstruct, and demonstrate in the
streets. Want to be known as a moron? Join them. Want to DO
SOMETHING about the quality of the rv you buy? DON'T BUY CRAP!
Anybody who thinks making a mess in DC is going to bring about rv
quality improvement is no smarter than Ralph Abernathy and his ilk.
Not only bone stupid but suffering from a mob mentality like the moral
misfits working the streets in favor of Saddam.
Will Sill
Diesel Guy
one listens, when a 1000 speak the same tale everyone listens. Of course
you are probably one of those people that feel if I just stay in my home and
not say anything it will go away. Industry that has no one to answer to
will do what ever they want to whom ever they want. Especially when the
industry as a whole march to the same drum. Its all about consumer
protection. Sure if you go and spend a Million bucks on a rig then maybe
you will get some quality in what you buy. But if you are Joe average
American and can't afford the then you are stuck with what is left. RVing
is not the soul privilege of the rich but for all Americans. We should the
expect that some amount of quality and safety be incorporated with every
unit sold. If a unit is unsafe or poorly built who protects the consumer?
Now it is not expected that government take care of all the problems but it
can help to level the playing field for Mr. Average. Some of the greatest
changes in this country have come about because people banded together for a
common cause, spoke their message and stood buy their words. Then again
maybe you think we should still be a colony of England.
Just my thoughts
Ken
"Will Sill" <wi...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:aa4q3vk8dqk8uiv7n...@4ax.com...
Will Sill
>> >On the RV quality note........ If you want to make a change in the RV
>> >world you have to band together. It would take a lot of work and
>numerous
>> >rallies in Washington DC (Like a 1000 RVs driving the streets of DC with
>> >banners that list the complaints and concerns of the voting RV
>community).
To which I replied:
>> Any bunch of morons can destroy, obstruct, and demonstrate in the
>> streets. Want to be known as a moron? Join them. Want to DO
>> SOMETHING about the quality of the rv you buy? DON'T BUY CRAP!
>>
>> Anybody who thinks making a mess in DC is going to bring about rv
>> quality improvement is no smarter than Ralph Abernathy and his ilk.
>> Not only bone stupid but suffering from a mob mentality like the moral
>> misfits working the streets in favor of Saddam.
Now the same misanthrope, apparently needing further instruction,
writes:
>Hey goof, it's called letting the people be heard.
Which people? THe morons in charge in DC? Do you think anyone in DC
is likely to do something to improve the situation? If so, you are a
victim of serious mental defects.
> . . . When one voice speaks no
>one listens, when a 1000 speak the same tale everyone listens.
OH? Then why do we have abortion on demand? Making a lot of noise
may get attention, but you can do that lots of ways. The most
effective way is DON'T BUY JUNK.
> . . . Of course
>you are probably one of those people that feel if I just stay in my home and
>not say anything it will go away.
Cheesy construction will NOT go away as long as you and your ilk
continue to buy cheesy rv's.
> Industry that has no one to answer to
>will do what ever they want to whom ever they want. Especially when the
>industry as a whole march to the same drum.
Quite the contrary. The industry has a profit motive. A few makers
value their reputation enough to build quality stuff and stand behind
it, but the vast majority build to a price so that sheep like you will
buy their stuff and trade it in as soon as the ashtray is full. You
buy on the basis of the Four F's - Features, Floor Plans, Fabrics and
FINANCING . . and then you piss & moan because you got less than you
thought you were getting. You are too cheap to support the RV
Consumers Group, too lazy to do your homework to determine what
quality you want, and too ignorant to understand the absolute
stupidity of trying to get government to dictate how rv's will be
built.
> . . . Its all about consumer protection.
No, it's all about being a stupid liberal, imagining that government
can protect you from your own ignorance.
> Sure if you go and spend a Million bucks on a rig then maybe
>you will get some quality in what you buy.
Not so - only fools imagine there is a direct connection between price
and quality. Instead, more money gets more Features, a bigger Floor
Plan, gaudier Fabrics, and long-term Financing.
>>But if you are Joe average
>American and can't afford the then you are stuck with what is left.
Nobody sticks a knife in your ribs and makes you buy junk. You do it
to yourself. Time after time. You don't like what you can buy off
the lot, don't buy it. If I thought you had the brains to do it, I'd
suggest you do what we did - build our own. But forget that - based
on what you write here you're not capable.
>RVing is not the soul [sic] privilege of the rich but for all Americans.
Absolutely not true. In America you are at liberty to EARN the money
to buy and operate an rv.... but you are absolutely NOT entitled to
one. Many Americans cannot afford one - and if your earning power is
as weak as your intellect, you probably can't afford one either. (You
probably think that's an insult - it ain't. It's an observation.)
> . .We should the
>expect that some amount of quality and safety be incorporated with every
>unit sold.
The problem is twofold.
1) RV quality IS generally poor. You're right about that but for all
the wrong reasons - including the key fact that the average buyer
simply will not pay for quality when they can buy cheap imitations of
what the Jones' have for less money.
2) You have irrational expectations
>If a unit is unsafe or poorly built who protects the consumer?
The first line of defense is the CONSUMER. If you are ignorant enough
to buy an rv without doing some research, you get the same kind of
problems you get when you buy a house without inspecting it.
>Now it is not expected that government take care of all the problems but it
>can help to level the playing field for Mr. Average.
If you actually think the government is going to get rid of quality
problems in rv's, you are just dumber than dirt.
>Some of the greatest
>changes in this country have come about because people banded together for a
>common cause, spoke their message and stood buy their words. Then again
>maybe you think we should still be a colony of England.
As it happens, dozens of my ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War
- several dying in the process. People like me are even today
fighting against mental midgets like yourself who are trying their
damnedst to return this country to the kind of socialist dictatorship
King George provided us - where the people were beholden to the
government for every aspect of their lives.
You seem to honestly think that the government can give you everything
you want. Well, I got news. They cannot even BEGIN to do that until
and unless they first take away everything you have. You may THINK
they will then divide up everyone's wealth and give you a fair share,
but even if they did (dream on) you'd get NOTHING by the time the fat
cats milked what they think THEIR share oughta be.
Andrew Carnegie is said to have told a young socialist demanding a
share of his wealth to wait while he had a secretary do a calculation.
Then he said something like "Young man, according to current estimates
of my wealth ad the world's current population, your share of my
fortune is sixteen cents. Now take it and get out."
Chill out - be your own quality inspector. And stay outa DC - the
place is crawling with nut cases as bad as you.
Will Sill
Spout bafflegab to infants, they giggle or cry
Spout it on usenet, you get challenged.
IF YOU CAN'T SWIM DON'T JUMP IN
it
FORDs is now gone!
the MB 300 NEW AND MANY USED
<MY 84> ARE STILL TICKING
and have a book value to boot
the ford sold for i would guess 4 to $5,000
the benze around $15,000 well spent
kc
Mike F
almost three times what a Winnie of the same size costs? Doesn't a Born Free
or Chinook use maybe metal, or at least oak, where my Winnie might use pine?
Do Chinook drawer slide supports snap all the time? (Born Free's standard
Billstein shocks probably cost $375 more than my OEM Fords.) Is a BF or
Chinook going to rattle and creak like an old school bus after a decade on
the road, as my buds say their Winnebagos do? Not that I'd believe for a
minute that a BF really is worth $73,000 freakin' bucks more than my $47,000
Winnie, but isn't it worth maybe another $10k in glitz (to folks who care
about glitz) and maybe an extra $10-20k in durability? Just asking, because
that asinine price difference was one of my early reasons for ruling out the
high-priced spread.
Most rich people got rich by not pissing away an almost ordinary income.
Based on that, it could be said that only the truly, permanently, and
independently rich can really AFFORD a BF or Chinook; the rest just WANT
one. But they ARE better ... aren't they?
Mike
"Will Sill" <wi...@epix.net> wrote
Diesel Guy
You are obviously a man who does not read the entire sentence. Must have
had a hell of a time with those test questions in school. I said the Gov
can help level the playing field for the consumer. Did you get that or are
you to stuck up with you own holier than thou attitude to comprehend the
word HELP.
The consumer is a very powerful force but without some help can loose the
long run battle. You apparently are one of those anti government, I'm right
everyone else is wrong militant militias who have all their brains stuffed
into a bomb shelter in their back yard because Y2K was going to end the
world.
I may have high hopes and expectations of our government and the system. If
I didn't I would not have spent 20 years of my life being shot at from the
enemy and spat on by the very same people I was defending. I spent those
years holding to the very same values and principles that were set down over
200 years ago and still have meaning today.
You can keep your views and I will keep mine. If any person foreign or
domestic tries to take that right away from any one of us I will not
hesitate to again stand up and fight to preserve those rights.
My view is still the same, The Movement has a duty to support the people,
the people have a duty to support the government. If you don't like the way
they are doing things then you get involved and add your voice to the
change.
Does this all mean the it will all change just because we want it to.
NO..... But we must continue to be heard by the industry and the
government. If a manufacturer is making an unsafe product that could
endanger the lives of people then the government needs to ensure they
correct the defect to ensure the public safety. I will not buy a poorly
built product. I buy the best I can find. If I can't afford the best then I
wait till I can. But there are those who may. So does your view point stop
that person from loosing their rig due to a safety defect or what ever
killing you and your family on the open road? I don't think so. Of course
if you survive you will be the first to scream "Why didn't the government do
something to prevent this". It's just like the Firestone tires. People
made noise, the government listened and things changed. Was it enough,
maybe not. But it was a start.
May God Bless the United States of America and protect those of us who are
away from home
Ken
Chief Gas Turbine Electrician, USN (Retired) and proud of it
"Will Sill" <wi...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:cn2r3v80osi5dse1j...@4ax.com...
Chris Bryant
>Is that completely true? Is it strictly foofoo that makes some RVs cost
>almost three times what a Winnie of the same size costs? Doesn't a Born Free
>or Chinook use maybe metal, or at least oak, where my Winnie might use pine?
>Do Chinook drawer slide supports snap all the time? (Born Free's standard
>Billstein shocks probably cost $375 more than my OEM Fords.) Is a BF or
>Chinook going to rattle and creak like an old school bus after a decade on
>the road, as my buds say their Winnebagos do? Not that I'd believe for a
>minute that a BF really is worth $73,000 freakin' bucks more than my $47,000
>Winnie, but isn't it worth maybe another $10k in glitz (to folks who care
>about glitz) and maybe an extra $10-20k in durability? Just asking, because
>that asinine price difference was one of my early reasons for ruling out the
>high-priced spread.
The three Born Free units that I service all have far higher
quality components used throughout.
Off the top of my head- cabinet grade oak plywood (3/4") used
for cabinetry, high quality ball bearing drawer slides, high quality
"european" style cabinet hinges, FRP plywood flooring, all exterior
hardware is stainless steel.
--
Chris Bryant
Bryant RV Services- http://www.bryantrv.com
Will Sill
>> only fools imagine there is a direct connection between price
>> and quality. Instead, more money gets more Features, a bigger Floor
>> Plan, gaudier Fabrics, and long-term Financing.
Then "Mike F" <iso...@urxSpamDam.com> who is usually a LOT smarter,
wrote:
>Is that completely true?
Absolutely. It is true that "only fools imagine there is a direct
connection between price and quality". It is also true that better
quality often DOES cost more - my point was that paying big $$ does
not _guarantee_ top quality.
> .... Is it strictly foofoo that makes some RVs cost
>almost three times what a Winnie of the same size costs?
Nope.
> . . . Doesn't a Born Free
>or Chinook use maybe metal, or at least oak, where my Winnie might use pine?
>Do Chinook drawer slide supports snap all the time? (Born Free's standard
>Billstein shocks probably cost $375 more than my OEM Fords.) Is a BF or
>Chinook going to rattle and creak like an old school bus after a decade on
>the road, as my buds say their Winnebagos do? Not that I'd believe for a
>minute that a BF really is worth $73,000 freakin' bucks more than my $47,000
>Winnie, but isn't it worth maybe another $10k in glitz (to folks who care
>about glitz) and maybe an extra $10-20k in durability? Just asking, because
>that asinine price difference was one of my early reasons for ruling out the
>high-priced spread.
I dunno. What something is "worth" is very subjective. I seem to
recall that you thought the Banks system was "worth" it's price for
you, even though the evidence is overwhelming that it does not and
cannot deliver the advertised benefits.
Vastly differing expectations affect how people perceive quality.
>Most rich people got rich by not pissing away an almost ordinary income.
>Based on that, it could be said that only the truly, permanently, and
>independently rich can really AFFORD a BF or Chinook; the rest just WANT
>one. But they ARE better ... aren't they?
I dunno that either - owners of certain high-dollar rigs often praise
them to the skies. But then, people who have made a decision to spend
big $$$ very often defend their decisions vigorously. The most
reliable, trouble-free MH we ever owned is the one I built myself.
Does that mean I'm the best MH builder in the world? Or does it mean
I have some pride (justified or not) in what I built? Or does it mean
anything at all?
You decide.
But IMO it is a mistake to blindly assume that more $$ buys a "better"
rig. One of many reasons I suggest that first-time buyers subscribe to
RVCG's service and STUDY the market offerings in view of their own
expectations.
Will Sill
Will Sill
>Dear Mr. Will Sill
>
>You are obviously a man who does not read the entire sentence.
I not only read your entire ill-informed post, but foolishly put a lot
of effort into a coherent response. Your idea of tying up traffic with
a huge demonstration in DC in order to demand improved rv quality
SHOULD have warned me that you were a flaming idiot unworthy of my
time. Slow as I am, I've learned.
BIOYA.
Will ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Before flaming, pause. I post to help rv'ers
and annoy the snot out of morons, idjits, fools
and bozos. You, sir, are a moron.
Mike F
years -- despite a smashed bumper and a highway-speed off-road excursion
that undid some Ford parts after hitting a highway anomaly -- for the same
general reason yours has: we poured FAR more time into building them than a
manufacturer could. At $60 an hour for combined design, fabrication, and
assembly time, mine would have cost well over $200,000 ... plus all parts
including the van I started with.
Mike
"Will Sill" <wi...@epix.net> wrote
Diesel Guy
Well you must take up the rest. Idiot, fool and bozo.
And you are slow. Just another but hole who only thinks they are right and
screw the rest of the world.
I hate to tell you but your not the only person with an opinion. Granted
opinions are like ass hole, everyone has one and they all stink but you sir
are the grand master.
Ken
With the God given right to an opinion.
IF YOU CAN'T SWIM DON'T JUMP IN
when you start using the flushing stuff your asking for trouble unless
done by a GM dealer
the 10 min places can turn a 200LB tranny into a paper weight fast!
kc
Yocum@aol.com-nospam Butch
news:B1D%9.73126$Gm2.2...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> Well you must take up the rest. Idiot, fool and bozo.
> And you are slow. Just another but hole who only thinks they are right
and
> screw the rest of the world.
> I hate to tell you but your not the only person with an opinion. Granted
> opinions are like ass hole, everyone has one and they all stink but you
sir
> are the grand master.
>
> Ken
> With the God given right to an opinion.
>
>
hoodwinked into Honda vs. GM quality then into the "dumb ass RV owners (who
overpay and don't know what quality is). I've only been on this NG for a
short period of time but I have noticed two things:
1) Post for help often produce more opinions (read ass holes) than help.
2) Will Sill must be married or closely related to CASS!
Sorry NG if you did not like the information I was passing on regarding the
RV industries' acceptance of warranties to the original purchaser only. I
thought, incorrectly, that we were a community of like interest and
concerns. I did get much more reasonable responses from
rec.outdoors.rv-travel.
Pass the word, any motorhome with Quadra "Bigfoot" levelers is suspect in
quality. Tell them so!
Another Butch
Diesel Guy
Ken
"Butch" <Butch Yo...@aol.com-nospam> wrote in message
news:6sI%9.2911$Xz4.1...@news2.west.cox.net...