RV FAQ

[R Lindberg / E Winnie]

This update adds several changes, these include a new chart showing a
selected price comparison of the four largest mail order houses, also an
enlarged section on repairing RV's
I am posting this in a non-normal method due to problems on my end, I
hope it all works.

TTFN Ralph

=============================================
= F R E Q U E N T L Y A S K E D Q U E S T I O N S =
= (and other information) =
=============================================

This is the RV FAQ, which is posted on the first of each month to the
following newsgroups, alt.rv, rec.outdoors.rv-travel, rec.answers and
news.answers. This edition contains URL tags that should be readable by
HTML smart readers, such as Netscape 2.0.

This FAQ will also be available via FTP and WWW. The FAQ should be
found in any major Usenet FAQ site. The prime URL is
<http://kendaco.telebyte.net/rlindber/rv/RVFAQ.html>

This is revision 3.3 of the FAQ dated 1 July 1996.
Complied by Ralph Lindberg (drag...@scn.org) and Jerry Segers
(Je...@PeachNet.EDU). Please contact Ralph Lindberg (drag...@scn.org)
with suggestions, changes, additions, etc
**********************************************************
COPYRIGHT NOTICE
**********************************************************
This FAQ is Copyright (C) 1995/1996 by Jerry W. Segers, Ralph Lindberg
and the members of the UseNet community for their individual
contributions. All rights reserved. Permission is hereby granted to use,
copy and redistribute this FAQ in whole or part by any means for any
purpose so long the following conditions are met:
1 - The distribution is not done for profit.
2 - The distributed portion of the document is not modified.
3 - The distributed copy contains instructions about where to get
the latest version.
4 - If the copy is imbedded in any publication (Print, CD-ROM etc.)
one copy must be delivered to authorąs free of charge.

Any reproduction or of distribution of this FAQ in whole or part by any
means, implies agreement with the above conditions unless written (non-
electronic) permission to the contrary is obtained from the author.
**********************************************************
DISCLAIMER!
**********************************************************
Jerry writes
---------------
While the information contained in this FAQ was carefully collected and
compiled to be as accurate as possible, there are no expressed or implied
warranties that the information contained herein is correct, of any value,
or suitable for any purpose. If you use this information in any way, you
assume full responsibility for the results of your actions. In no event will
the author, or others be liable for any results or the lack thereof.

Neither of the compilers have any connection with any of the business that
may be mentioned in the FAQ except possibly as a satisfied customer
unless there is a specific statement to the contrary in the text.

Ralph writes
-----------------
Please note: if your news reader puts strange characters, where
double and single quotes might be being used. The fault is the character
set my news program uses is not the same as the character set yours uses.
I am working on fixing this problem.

**********************************************************

TABLE OF CONTENTS.

Editorial, Copyright and Disclaimer.

1. General and Internet resources
1.1 What are these news group all about?
1.2 What is an RV?
1.3 Netiquette on the newsgroups.
1.3.1 Jargon
1.4 Advertising on the net
1.5 Credits.
1.6 About the FAQ editors.

2. General Information
2.1 What about a check list
2.2 What about Ham radio Nets
2.3 Buying mail order
2.4What Campground Guide should I get
2.5 Cooking for and on the road
2.6 Traveling with Pets

3. RV information
3.1 Advise for the first time RVer
3.2 RV vs Motels
3.3 Buying an RV (General)
3.3.1 Buying RVs for cold weather.
3.3.2 What about Trailer and Tow vehicles
3.4 Buying and RV (Specific Brands in Alphabetical order)
3.4.1 Airstream.
3.4.2 Award
3.4.3 Colemen (hardside)
3.4.4 Escaper
3.4.5 LeSharo, Phasar (Renault based units)
3.5 Technical Stuff, Accessories, Tips ,etc.
3.5.1 Diesel Engines
3.5.2 Washers and Dryers
3.5.3 Oil Stabilizer
3.5.4 Overheating Engine
3.5.5 Overheating Coach
3.5.6 Rebuilding Older RVąs
3.5.7 Dust Proofing
3.5.8 Deep Cycle Batteries
3.5.9 Refrigerators
3.5.10 Radial Tires on older Rigs
3.5.11 Solar Power
3.5.12 Membership Campgrounds
3.6 Full Timing
3.7 What about Magazines
3.8 One way rentals

**********************************************************
1.1 What are these news groups all about?
--------------------------------------
Jerry writes
There are many people that enjoy the pleasures of occasional or full
time RV-ing. This news group is for these people to share ideas related to
this effort and in the process learn from and make friends with each
other. Woven among the messages in this group, you will find novel ideas,
dumb suggestions, good advice, horror stories, and wonderful tales of
personal triumph sprinkled with love, understanding, friendship, and hate.
All of which are part of the RV-ing experience.

While to the uninitiated, the letters RV and their meaning
recreational vehicles could mean anything from a child's first bicycle to a
home built airplane or the Love Boat, the discussions in this group are
generally limited to experiences related to the class of vehicles that are
intended for personal or single family use and function as a home away
from home. They are used when the owner, their family and friends want
to "Get Away" for a while and see more of their world than can be seen
from the window of a car, bus, or train going to and from their work
location. A further definition of an RV can be found in the next section.

**********************************************************
1.2 What is an RV?
--------------------
Jerry writes
There are eight generally accepted types of Recreational Vehicles.
Each type is listed below along with my homey definition. If anyone can
explain how these definitions were created or provide an exact definition
for any of the classes I would be happy to include that information here.

RVs can be divided into two general categories. Those that have power
trains (Engine, transmission, etc.) and those that do not. The ones that
have power trains are called motorhomes and the one that do not are
called trailers because they trail the tow vehicle. Below the motorhomes
are listed first then the trailers. In each category they are listed with
the larger and generally more expensive units first.

Class A Motorhome
-----------------
This is the largest type of motorhome. It ranges in size from about
13,000 to 30,000 pound gross vehicle weight, from 30 to 40 feet in
overall length and about 10 feet high. They are generally a box on wheels
with all the comforts of home inside. They are frequently constructed on
custom undercarriages or on a three to ten ton truck chassis. It is easy for
the passenger to move from the passenger seat to the back of the coach.
Think of a Greyhound bus.

Class C Motorhome
-----------------
This is the next smaller size motorhome. They range in size from
10,000 to 12,000 pound gross vehicle weight, from 20 to 25 feet in
length and about 10 feet high. They are generally constructed on a larger
van chassis. Their driver compartment is similar to a van with a large box
in the back. The passenger can move from the passenger seat to the back
of the unit with slight difficulty getting around the engine hump.

Micro-Mini Motorhome
--------------------
This unit is similar to the Class C motorhome but they are built on
light weight van chassis and are generally smaller ( 8-9 feet high) and
around 6,000 pound gross vehicle weight. Drives a lot like a car with a
large box in the back. Movement of the passenger from the passenger seat
to the back of the unit requires the bed to be raised or extreme agility on
the part of the passenger.

Van Conversions
---------------
This class is sometimes referred to as a Class B motorhome.
Probably because no one knows what the real definitions are and like me
can see no reason for class A and class C with no class B. These are the
smallest of the fully enclosed motorhome. They are constructed on a van
chassis with elevated roof lines but no modifications to the length or
width of the original chassis. Gross vehicle weights are in the 6,000 to
8,000 range with heights of 7 to 8 feet high and lengths of 17 to 19 feet.
Drives like a loaded van (it is).

Pickup truck mounted campers
----------------------------
These are generally the smallest of the self powered RV's. They
consist of a camper body of various sizes that load into the bed of an
unmodified pickup truck. Usually the tail gate is removed and the camper
unit is clamped to the truck. It is possible to remove the camper from the
truck but this is usually a long task not something to do in a campground.

Fifth Wheel trailers
--------------------
These units are similar to the larger travel trailers but they have an
extension on the front of the box that extends over the tow vehicle and a
horizontal plate that looks like a wheel that rests on the tow vehicle for
support. This plate is where the 5th wheel unit gets its name. This hitch
arrangement requires a special tow vehicle, usually a pickup truck with
special equipment. Many say this hitch arrangement that places the load
in the center of the tow vehicle instead of behind cause more stability and
easier driving.

Travel trailers
---------------
These units come in a variety of sizes from a small bedroom on
wheels to the equivalent of a class A motorhome minus the engine and
running gear. They are built close to the ground so the overall height is
lower for the same internal height as a motorhome. They are 10 to 35
feet in length and must be pulled by a separate tow vehicle. Due to weight
of all but the smallest units, the tow vehicle must have a special load
distributing hitch and other special devices designed to control the sway
of the trailer because the load is all behind the tow vehicle.

PoP-Up trailers
---------------
These are the smallest of RV's that to not have an engine. They
usually have canvas sides and resemble a tent on a small flat bed trailer.
They are light weight and easy to tow. Most larger automobiles can serve
as tow vehicle with few modifications.

---------------
Ralph writes
A łClass A˛ motor home is built on a commercial truck or bus
chassis. These are generally the largest, longest of the motor homes.
Although some of the new łClass C˛ units are getting into the same size
range.
A łClass B˛ motor home can also be thought of as a Śfullą conversion
van. They are generally built from a standard or extended van, with almost
everything built in; stove, oven, shower, lavatory, beds, table and chairs.
A łClass C˛ motor home is built on the Śvan fronted commercial
truck chassis.

Rich rev...@tnt.microimages.com, the list owner for the RV email list)
writes.

I would stress that the exact meaning of a class "B" is unclear; there
are several opinions on what a class B is so you should avoid the use of
the term in conversation unless you are clear as to what you are talking
about.

Some dealers I have talked to say that there is no such thing as a Class
"B" technically, that it is kind of a slang term that popped up derived
from the Class A and C definitions. Also, a class "C" can include pickup
truck frontends, or even a Cadillac front end, as featured in TL!
Basically, a class C is any motorhome that has a custom motorhome body
mounted on a conventional vehicle chassis. I also saw a photo of a class
C based on a diesel tractor!

*********************************************************
1.3 Netiquette

Jerry writes
-------------------------
Here are some words that generally apply to postings on any news
group and are found in many other FAQ's on the net. If you have not read
the postings of Emily PostNews you should do so. They are found in the
news group news.answers and are posted regularly. They are
simultaneously funny and instructive on how/how not to post.

The most important item to remember about posting to a news group
is that your message will travel around the world and be read by
thousands of people. The number of people that post is relatively small
compared to the number of people that just lurk (read without posting).
Thus when you write a message you should respect others feelings and
ways of life that may be different from yours. Persistent harassment and
obnoxious comments are never welcome and are usually the start of
"flame wars" that never accomplish anything.

The next admonition is to be careful with humor, particularly satire.
In person it is easy to see the body language common to your culture that
indicates satire but in written works it is relatively easy to miss the
clues and treat satire as fact usually with disastrous results. The
symbols in section 3 below have evolved over the years are of some help
but not infallible.

1.3.1
Jerry writes:
-------------------
The usenet has developed a jargon over the years that persists even
in the all news group. While I do not generally use much of this there are
others that do so the reader should be aware of the existence of certain
common abbreviations. If you see an abbreviation in this group that is not
here, Please let me know and I will try to define it and place it here.

IMHO - In My Humble Opinion
My.02 worth - My two cents worth (an American term??)
:-) - a smiley face. Usually indicated humor or satire
(Hold your head sideways to the left to see the face).
:-( - a frown.
;-) - A wink (well you get the idea)
FWIW - For What Its Worth
fiver - A fifth wheel trailer
BTW - By the Way

**********************************************************
1.4 Advertising on the net
While there are few rules in Usenet, posting an ad for an unrelated
product to a newsgroup is a certain way to make enemies. I can say for
certain that as of this writing (two weeks after the creation of
rec.outdoors.rv-travel) one persons un-related ad to rec.outdoors.rv-travel
has cost him his net access. I can and will complain to the site admin of
any poster that sends out an unrelated ad. Many providers cancel accounts
for this activity.<br>
In addition please remember that the charter for rec.outdoors.rv-travel
forbids commercial posts. The newsgroup rec.outdoors.marketplace was
created for this use. Also I will include pointers (email or a URL) for
related businesses in the FAQ.<br>
I will drop a note to anyone placing a commercial ad in rec.outdoors.rv-
travel, asking them not to, I also send a copy their provider. If you persist
the matter will be pursued.<br>
Remember that this restriction does NOT apply to alt.rv. This newsgroup
has no charter and thus no rules or standards can be applied to this
newsgroup<br>

*********************************************************
1.5 Credits.
------------------------
These are the people who have contributed in some way to this
document they are listed generally in order of the date of their first
contribution, but they are all equally important! Thank you one and all!

Kathy Duffy - kathy...@buckys.com
William F Sill - wi...@epix.net
Icono Clast - icono...@lcabin.com
Ruediger Pein - pe...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE
Nigel Head - nh...@pcnhead.dev.esoc.esa.de
John Crossley - CROS...@UK.AC.BRIS.SIVA
Geoff - wl-geo...@society.com
Banjoguy - banj...@aol.com
Joe Fowler - jfo...@acy.digex.net
Kenneth Oakman - bk...@eskimo.com
Bluffdance - bluff...@aol.com
Steve and Terri Carl - ter...@neosoft.com
Wayne O'Neil - koco...@the-wire.com
Greg Schulz - gsc...@free.org
Ed Taylor - eta...@nr.infi.net
Paul D. Hoffman - hoff...@mcmaster.ca
Rudi Wiedemann - WIED...@ix.netcom
Charles Copeland - cope...@fohnix.metronet
Judith B. Glad - hey...@teleport.com
Brian Hunt - bhu...@coyote.rain.org
David L. Schultz - dsch...@epix.net
P.E. Cox. - MOMS...@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU
Rich Ervin- rev...@tnt.microimages.com
unknow...@delphi.com
Kenneht Oakman...@eskimo.com
Cox,P.E. -moms...@music.cc.uga.edu
Charles Copeland...@fohnix.metronet.com
George Tews-...@execpc.com
John Sankey -bf...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
unknown-...@community.net
Lou Schneider -lo...@crl.com
Oasis RV - oas...@aol.com
Ernest Smith - er...@oregon.cray.com

**********************************************************
1.6 About the FAQ editors.
-------------------------------
My name is Jerry Segers. I was born and raised in the small middle
Georgia community of Gabbettville, USA. I am an Industrial Engineer by
training but I have never held an engineering job, Industrial or otherwise.
I discovered computers while in college (It was a Burroughs B-220 on the
off chance that any one ever heard of one) and went to work at Georgia
Tech to be close to one. Each time I started to leave Tech they gave me a
larger computer to play with until they suddenly gave me a tiny IBM PC.
What a let down! Then Bob Metcaff, Charlie Bass and Ralph Ungermann
indirectly showed me it was possible to interconnect these tiny things
into networks and my career change was underway. I designed and
constructed the campus network, GTNet, while at Georgia Tech then went
on the develop PeachNet "The Network for Education in Georgia".

While in college, I met my wife Carol and learned the pleasures of
camping in something other than a tent as I enjoyed in my Boy Scout days.
Together Carol and I purchased a used 1968 Lifetime Premier motor home
on a Dodge Chassis and began to discover the joys of RV-ing. We have two
children Christa 21, and Jerry, Jr.(JJ) 18 that were raised on trips to the
lake, Disney World, and relatives.

My son commented there were a lot of memories in that old motor
home, but I really should sell it and get a new one. Never, I replied
knowing that when I retire in a few years, I expect to do just that. I also
knew that he nor his sister would never forget the fun trips to Florida, the
mountains, or the night the roof vent leaked and soaked his bed. We all
remember the day dad went too fast and spilled the coleslaw and milk
from the refrigeration all over the floor or the nights we watched the sun
set over the lake with the boat moored just a few feet in front of the
window. To us the motor home was/is a vacation hideaway on wheels. We
can take it like a magic carpet to far away places where we meet new
friends, renew family ties, and enjoy what is now known as quality time
together. So if you are given to think I am a very un-selfish person for
creating and maintaining this FAQ, you are wrong! I am doing this for very
selfish reasons. I expect to meet new friends, help my fellow travelers,
gain new insights and in general derive untold pleasure from this effort.
So if you can see your way clear to help me realize this selfish goal,
please contribute material that I can use in this effort (I promise to try
hard to learn from you).

----------------------------
Ralph Lindberg is from Great Falls Montana, son of a former Forest
Service smoke chaser. I was brought up spending much of every summer
camping in the mountains of Montana. I went to college (BS EE, Computer
Engineer option) at Montana State U, Bozeman Mt. An excellent location for
outdoor activities. I now live in Keyport Washington and work for the US
Navy on computers and undersea weapons systems.
After I moved to Washington state I continued my camping
activities, in fact I meet my wife (Ellen Winnie) on a camping trip. We
tent camped for many years, until Ellenąs health got to the point where she
could no longer sleep on the ground. This was a real let down for someone
who once hiked Asgard pass, from north to south (the HARD way).
Our current RV is a 1976, 17 foot MeToo Fifth Wheel. We towed it
with a Nissan pickup for one year, the travel that year was somewhat
restricted due to the limitations of the Nissan. We now have a Ford F-150,
which will tow our trailer over an 18% grade (I know that it was marked).

**********************************************************
2.0 General Information
**********************************************************
2.1 Whatąs a good check list look like?
The following is from <mailto:oas...@aol.com> (Oasis RV)

Here's a camping checklist that we use for our customers:

CAMPING CHECK LIST

( ) SPICES ( ) COOKING OIL
( ) BOTTLED WATER ( ) HOT CHOC MIX
( ) SPICED CIDER MI ( ) COFFEE
( ) SUGAR PACKETS ( ) BOXED JUICES
( ) SYRUP ( ) POTS & PANS
( ) UTENSILS ( ) SILVERWARE
( ) TABLECLOTH ( ) KITCHEN TOWELS
( ) WASH BINS ( ) TUFFEE PADS
( ) CUTTING BOARD ( ) KITCHEN RAGS
( ) POT HOLDERS ( ) COFFEE POT
( ) COFFEE FILTERS ( ) COFFEE CUPS
( ) TBLECLTH HLDERS ( ) DISH DRAINER
( ) CAN OPENER ( ) CHAMPAGNE GLASSES
( ) KNIVES ( ) TEA KETTLE
( ) NAPKINS ( ) PAPER TOWELS
( ) TRASH BAGS ( ) ALUMINUM FOIL
( ) LIQUID DETERGENT ( ) MATCHES
( ) PAPER PLATES ( ) FLASHLIGHT
( ) CHARCOAL ( ) PORTABLE BBQ
( ) PILLOWS ( ) STOVE LIGHTER
( ) SLEEPING BAGS ( ) BEACH CHAIRS
( ) BEACH TOWELS ( ) LANTERN
( ) RADIO ( ) BATTERIES
( ) BUNGIE CORDS ( ) FIRST AID KIT
( ) WHISK BROOM ( ) GAMES
( ) ROPE ( ) KLEENEX
( ) TOILET PAPER ( ) AX
( ) FIREWOOD ( ) BOOKS
( ) 2 PRS OLD SHOES ( ) COATS
( ) BACK PACKS ( ) SMALL ICE CHEST
( ) SUN SCREEN

**********************************************************
2.2 What about Ham radio Nets?
KC5LWF <mailto:cope...@metronet.com> writes:

All time CST:

14263 FMCA everyday @ 2pm
7283 or 7292 Goodsam everyday @ 7:30pm to 8:00pm
14240 Goodsam sunday @ 2pm
7233.3 RV net everyday @ 7am to 8am
14308 RV net m-f 1pm-2pm and 6pm-7pm

Times many vary (or be slightly wrong on my part)

**********************************************************
2.3 Buying Mail Order

łWhere can I buy camping and RV items by mail?˛
REI 1-800-462-4840 /206 -891-2500 (fax (206-891-2523)
<http://www.rei.com/>
Campmor 1-800-230-2151, <mailto:catalog-
req...@campmor.com><http://www.campmor.com>
Campers Choice 1-800-833-6713 /205-356-2810
Northern RV Direct 1-800-438-5480 (fax 1-613-894-0083)
Camping World 1-800-626-5944 <http://www.campingworld.com>
J.C. Whitney. (312) 431-6102 or Fax: (312) 431-5625, catalog request
line is 1-800-JCWHITNEY and their home page is
<http:://shopping2000.com/shopping2000/jc_whitney/jc_whitney.html>

A cost comparison of identical items in the most recent catalogs (spring
1996) from RV Direct, Campers Choice JC Whitney and Camping World.
I tried to cover an item or two out of many different types. You will note
that while Camping World doesn't often have the best price, they do have
the largest selection. I didn't require that every item I included be carried
by Camping World, it just worked out that way.

Item JC Camperąs CampingWorld Northern
Whitney Choice reg(PC) RV-Direct

Maxxair Vent Cover 17.49 15.95 19.75(17.77) 16.99
Norcold 6.5cu
Refer, 2way 1099.95 1055.00 1249(1124.10)
Fridgemate
Circulation Fan 14.79 14.25 16.49(14.84)
Camco Refer Bar
(3pack) 5.39 4.78 5.90(5.38)
Lynx RV level
blocks 35.49 34.95 39.75(35.77) 34.99
CO Detector 39.99 39.95 49.95(44.95)
Kool Seal roof
sealer 1gal 17.95 22.50(20.25)
A&E 8500
14ft awning 516.95 619(557.10)
Battery Switch 17.75 19.95 21.98(19.78)
Thinlight Circular
Flourescent Light 31.95 44.75(40.27)
Suburban Water Heater
6gal(dual power) 254.95 319(287.10)
H&H 22 gal
waste tank 77.95 78.45 87.75(78.97)
Camco Slip
waste hose 20.95 22.5 23.5(21.15)
Shurflow Water pump 52.95 67.75(60.97) 59.99
Flojet Water pump 49.95 66.50(59.95)
Tekonsha Commander
Brake Controller 79.97 89.98(80.98) 72.99
Onan 4kw RV Generator 2499(2249.10) 2029.99

**********************************************************
2.3 What Campground Guide should I get
-------------------------------------
Ralph (drag...@scn.org) writes:
Most RVers agree that the ŚTrailer Lifeą directory is the best on the
American market, itąs updated yearly, lists information for nearly every
campground in the US. The Woodahlsą directories are also excellent, they
publish an East, a West, and a Tent campers addition.

Rich (rev...@tnt.microimages.com) writes:

AAA campground guides are thinner, but contain very well selected CG's.
This has been our mainstay since we discovered them a couple of years
ago.

Jerry and Ralph write:
------------------------------
Occasionally an travelers will be surprised as they take various
items through various states. Information about how long can my rig be
when I drive through state X, and how can I take my propane tank through a
tunnel are well covered in the Trailer Life Campground guide

**********************************************************
2.4 Cooking for/on the road
Jerry writes:
---------------------------
This section is for on the road cooks. It details how to prepare food
that is easy and f a s t!! What foods are suitable for RV's and what is hard
to prepare. I like baby carrots with French onion dip for finger food as I
drive. Tasty and relatively good for you (Compared to pork rinds which I
also love :-)).

Ralph writes:
I love baby carrots also, just no dip. Iąm going to have my wife work this
section over, in her spare time (there are reasons her Internet signature
says..Just because Iąm doing nothing doesnąt mean I have nothing to do).

-------------------
Lance (l...@eden.com) writes:
LANCE'S CATFISH SURPRISE
4 large catfish fillets
some mushrooms (sliced)
1-2 green bellpeppers
1 red bellpepper (muy caro!)
1 onion
1-2 yellow squash
a little butter (or PAM)
salt & pepper
other seasonings as desired
fresh jalapeńos (optional)

Cut up veggies. Season as desired.

Tear 2 sheets of aluminum foil that are each at least 5 times as long as
the width of the widest fillet. Grease up the center of each sheet with a
little butter or some PAM. Place two fillet on each sheet about 1.5 fillet
widths from one end of the sheet, and about 1-2" apart from each other
(length of fish across width of foil). Season fillets as desired. Put the
cut up veggies on top of -- and some between -- the two fillets. Pack 'em
big. Remember, you're camping; pig out (besides this is all pretty healthy
stuff).

Roll up the foil from the end closest to the fish so that you make a veggie
sandwich with the fish acting as the 'bread'. Seal the ends. It's
important you make a tight seal on this foil!

Should be a 3-second eat on the grill (meaning you can hold your hand
there
for no more, and not much less, than 3 seconds). At that heat, it's 10
minutes for the first side, flip, 15 minutes on second side, and then 5
more minutes on the last side. If they're HUGE fillets, add 5 minutes to
the first two times, but no more than 45 minutes.

Take 'em off, unroll 'em, and eat 'em right out of the foil! They should be
steamin' hot, so watch yourself! (but they get cold fast, so hurry up!)

-------------------------
Stanley Shikuma <shi...@u.washington.edu> writes:
Breakfast Eggs 'n Tomatoes
Ingredients:
garlic, onion, tomatoes, bacon, eggs
(optional: potatoes)
Directions:
slice bacon in small strips/bits and saute
drain some of grease, then saute garlic and onion until clear
add tomatoes, cover and let simmer 'til tomatoes soft/mushy
(option: add potatoes -- should be grated or parboiled prior)
crack eggs onto bed of tomatoes and simmer covered until
cooked

for vegetarian meals, eliminate bacon and use cooking oil
takes a little while, but very good. Helps to have a stove with
adjustable flame.

**********************************************************
2.5 Traveling with pets
----------------

Paul D. Hoffman - hoff...@mcmaster.ca writes:
In my experience and having browsed many campground directories it
appears that most campgrounds will allow pets as long as they are
restrained in some way. Happy camping. Paul

------------------
Ralph writes:
Most parks that donąt allow pets tell you in their ad or listing in the
guide books.

**********************************************************
3.0 - RV FAQ
---------------------------------
3.1 Advice for the first time Rver
Jerry Segers <Je...@PeachNet.EDU> writes

So what's to fear except fear itself (Yes it is a bad paraphrase but it is
appropriate). The newer RV's drive like a large car. They have automatic
transmissions, power brakes and cruise control. The only things that
might cause a novice problems is the need to gear down when going down
steep inclines because of the load and the need to watch the over head
clearance. Most rigs are about 10 feet high and get caught under tree
branches when you leave the main roads. Other then that, get behind the
wheel and drive to where you are going. Tip- The rear visibility is
limited on some units. A pair of walkie talkies are a good investment so
someone can watch behind you and talk to you at the same time when you
have to back up.

The RV body is a small house. Refrigerator, stove and sink in the kitchen,
toilet in the bathroom, water heater in the side, A/C unit on the roof, etc.
Most things work just like a smaller version of what you have at home.
There are four major exceptions.
1 -- The refrigerator runs off propane or 110vac so you must select the
power source from time to time and start the operation on that source.
Further it must be level or in motion to stay cool.
2 -- The toilet drops its contents into a holding tank that needs to be
emptied instead of into the city sewer. You should be able to make a 3 day
trip without emptying the tanks until you return, but the holding tank
needs some chemical to keep the odor down -- get some before you leave.
In a pinch Joy or Dawn dishwashing liquid works fine. Squirt about 5
seconds worth in the toilet and flush every 12 hours.
3 -- You MUST learn to conserve water. You can load enough water to last
3 days if you are careful. If you are sloppy you will simultaneously run
out of water and fill up the holding tanks. The best way to get into this
problem is to let my mother-in-law wash dishes. She leaves the water
running to rinse the next dish while she washes it. It takes her over 25
gallons to wash the supper dishes for 4. :-(
4 -- You are your own electric company.. Learn how to operate the
generator and how to plug into the campground. Prepare to purchase an
adaptor because the campground power almost never matched the power
cable on the unit. Fortunately this will only happen once or twice (You
will have the required adapters) and every campground sells the right
stuff.

My advice is --

1 - Make a scrap book of the trip. Write down what you plan to take with
you (clothing, food, menus etc), where you are going and exactly how your
are going to get there. Get the kids to help select the place. Get the kids
to help make the scrap book that describes your trip. Blank pages with
some tape works fine. Look for or draw pictures of the camp ground, and
include maps, telephone numbers, and directions. Make this a fun family
project. Even the youngest can tape the items in the book with dad's help.
The purpose for the book is to get all the telephone numbers, maps, names,
menus, food list, clothing list, etc all in one place so you can keep up with
them. Remember you are planning an adventure not a trip. No matter what
happens you will have fun!!..

Suppose you get 100 miles down the road and the engine dies while you are
in a gas station and the tow truck can't get there until the next day. No
problem! You have a bed to sleep in, food to eat, games to play and great
people to keep you company.

2 - Get 3 identical sized storage boxes. Put each child's name on one box
and give each child their box at least 1 week before the trip. Your
instructions to each child are that they can take as many toys as they
want so long as they all fit in the box and the lid closes. You remember to
fill a separate box for mom and dad that has reading materials and games
that the whole family can play while you wait for the tow truck or watch
the rain fall.

3 - Rent the motorhome and pack it like you were going to go on 3 day
picnic. Note: For a 3 day trip you need to rent the unit for 4 days. Pick it
up early on the day you leave and packit. You will have a lot of help with
this part. Then when you return you can get a good nights sleep before you
unload everything and take the unit back (With Nooooo help!).

4 - For your picnic take sleeping bags for the beds (Much easier to make
up), drinks in a cooler with ice, paper plates, plastic cups, sandwich
materials, chips, hotdogs, marshmallows (For the camp fire not over the
stove eye!!) You will also need some coat hangers or store bought roasting
sticks.

5 - If you decide to eat out make those the noon meals. Breakfast and
sandwiches for supper are easier to prepare and don't heat up the RV so
much and the food is less expensive at lunch.

Note: With this plan the only thing that really has to work is the engine to
get you there. If you can't figure out how to work the stove you eat
sandwiches. If the refrigerator stops you have cool drinks and food in the
cooler. If you run out of water you stop at the nearby bath house to wash
your hands. Etc.

6 - Plan a trip that requires no more than 3 hours (150 miles) of travel
per day.

7 - Stop at some attraction even if it is only a McDonalds playground (I
like local school yards or county parks with shade trees myself -- Ask at
a filling station attendant for the nearest one) every hour and let the kids
run. When you start after the attraction let the other adult drive for the
next hour.

8 - Call ahead for campground reservations. This is not really a
requirement but for a novice it is a good feeling to know that there is a
place to park at the end of the day.

9 - On a 3 day trip plan one day out, one day there and one day back.
The reason for all this caution in the trip plan is so that if there is any
problem it occurs in the daylight and you have time to correct and still
stay on schedule.

10 - Plan on taking about $100 per day per person in cash or travelers
checks you probably not spend it all but having it will give you peace of
mind.

11 - Remind everyone frequently that this is an adventure. The fun is in
the going and no matter what happens there is something fun to do.

Now GO!! The most likely outcome is that you will forget some very
important item (I'm talking about a very favorite teddy bear or Raggedy
Ann doll) and you have to go back or purchase a substitute. This is still
part of the adventure and is still fun.

If you look over the above advice you will find that there is a lot of
planning and preparation. For your first trip this will make the whole
experience build to a climax as you return and guarantee a good time. On
later trips you can decide on Sunday, pick up the unit on Monday, yell
LOAD-IT and stand back, then drive off for a 2 week adventure and it won't
bother anyone that you don't know where you are going, when you will get
there or where you are going to park, because you will already know from
experience that no matter what happens you will have fun!.

**********************************************************
3.2 RVs vs Motel, why buy one in the first place

Rich Ervin (re...@tnt.microimages.com) writes: (thanks to Tim
ra...@asri.edu for passing this along)

"Go Camping America" did a study comparing the cost of a RV vacation vs.
conventional vacation. The RV vacation consisted of travel cost (gas),
camping overnight cost, and the cost of preparing your meals in your RV
from food purchased from a supermarket. The conventional vacation
consisted of travel cost (less gas), overnight expense (motels), and food
budget for eating out every day. Of course they showed the RV vacation to
cost significantly less. This analysis is partially flawed because they
didn't factor in the expense of buying the new or used RV which can cost
from several thousand dollars to several hundred thousand dollars.
Obviously if you go and buy a $75,000.00 Class A Motorhome your RV
vacation will most likely cost more than the overnight at Motel 6.

In this analysis, I will compare RV vacations vs. conventional vacations
including the cost of the RV. In general, one of the main reasons of
purchasing an RV is for low cost family vacations that emphasize family
togetherness and family memories (sitting around the fire toasting
marshmallows). The most economical RV's for family camping vacations
are fold-down campers, travel trailers, truck campers, and class C
motorhomes (truck cabs with camper build on truck frame, usually has
overcab bed). I will limit my analysis to a brandX fold-down camper and
brand Y travel trailer given my personal experience (you can extrapolate
for a truck camper or a class C).

Here are some approximate price ranges:

TYPE New Low New High Used Low Used High
Fold-down $ 2,500 $10,000 $ 750 $ 7,500
Travel Trailer $ 9,000 $40,000 $2,000 $20,000
Truck Camper $ 5,000 $22,000 $1,000 $12,000
Class C $12,000 $50,000 $5,000 $25,000

The best deals on new RV's are found in the Jan-Apr camper shows.
Almost all manufacturers offer rebates and free accessories to dealers
for the camper shows who frequently match the rebates (thus doubling
them) for the consumers. It is very hard to haggle on a new camper. The
dealer markup can be high (eg. 20%), however there is a significant amount
of labor involved in preparing the RV for delivery. If you are willing to do
the prep work and install the accessories yourself, you might be able to
get a rock bottom deal (I did). This amounts to pressure testing the water
system and propane system, lubing the lift system, adjusting and testing
the electric brakes, etc. Also, the RV dealers are more spread out than
auto dealers. Unless you want to travel quite a distance for service, it is
best to use the closest dealer. They are more selective about servicing a
RV under warranty that was purchased from a different dealer by price
alone.

Most banks and lending institutions have special financing for RV's; they
will lend a large principle over a long term at a very low interest rate.
They require you to provide them with the VIN (vehicle identification
number - just like a car), and you must list them on the required insurance
policy.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Conventional Vacation for Family of 4 (10 Days/10 Nights, Resort Area
Prices)

(Auto with 25 Miles / Gal, 1000 miles round trip)

Motel $75.00 / night x 10 Nights = $ 750
Travel 1000 miles / 25 mpg x $1.20 /gal = $ 48
Food $25 / person / day x 10 days x 4 persons = $1,000

TOTAL (approx) = $1,800

------------------------------------------------------------------

Conventional Vacation for Family of 6 (10 Days/10 Nights, Resort Area
Prices)

(requires additional motel room - second room at discount)

Motel $125.00 / night x 10 Nights = $1,250
Travel 1000 miles / 25 mpg x $1.20 / gal = $ 48
Food $25 / person / day x 10 days x 6 persons = $1,500

TOTAL (approx) = $2,800

------------------------------------------------------------------

Fold-Down Camper for Family of 6 (10 Days/10 Nights, Resort Area
Prices)

Camper Cost = $5,000 (will buy either a new or used fold-down
camper)
Loan
Principle = $5000
Term = 5 years
Interest = 8%
Payment = $100 / month
Yearly Cost = $1,200
Total Cost = $1,200 x 5 years = $6,000

Promise to use the camper for 10 years

Average cost per year = $600

Camper Yearly Cost $600.00 + $50 annual maintenance = $ 650
Campground Fee $25 / night (inc. water & electric) x 10 night = $ 250
Travel 1000 miles / 20 mpg x $1.20 / gal = $ 60
Food (supermarket) $5 / person / day x 10 days x 6 persons = $ 300

TOTAL (approx) = $1,260

------------------------------------------------------------------

Travel Trailer for Family of 6 (10 Days/10 Nights, Resort Area Prices)

Camper Cost = $12,000 (will buy either a new or used travel trailer)
Loan
Principle = $12000
Term = 10 years
Interest = 8%
Payment = $150 / month
Yearly Cost = $1,800
Total Cost = $18,000
Average Yearly Cost (over 10 years) = $1,800 / year

Camper Yearly Cost $1800.00 + $100 annual maintenance = $1,900
Campground Fee $25 / night (inc. water & electric) x 10 night = $ 250
Travel 1000 miles / 12 mpg x $1.20 / gal = $ 100
Food (supermarket) $5 / person / day x 10 days x 6 persons = $ 300

TOTAL (approx) = $2,550
------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTES on camping prices:

The camping fee for state or national park campgrounds is from $5 to $10.
For private campgrounds it varies from $10 to $40 depending on the
location (resort or other), utilities that you pay for (water, electric,
sewer, cable TV, etc), whether or not they charge you for the number of
persons (an increasing trend is to charge by the family unit, not by
person), and what amenities they offer (playground, movies, pool, hot tub,
water slide, miniature golf, tennis/basket ball courts, etc). One very
typical example is a KOA Campground in a resort area might charge $22
base charge, $3.00 for water and electric, kids free, total = $25.00 / night.
However, you can buy a KOA Value card for $6 good for two years that
gives you 10% off your camping bill; then your total would be $22.50 /
night.

Pulling a fold-down camper causes only a slight decrease in miles per
gallon of the tow vehicle. Most V6 autos can pull a 2000 lb fold-down
camper. I pull our 1900 lb (when fully loaded) Coleman with a 2.4 L 4-
cylinder Nissan Axxess (rated to tow 2000 lbs) and still get 18 mpg (22
mpg usually). A travel trailer will probably cut your usual mpg in half.
There are small travel trailers that can be towed by a V6 auto or minivan
(rated to tow 3500 lbs), but most require a more substantial tow vehicle
such as a Ford Explorer or Aerostar, Chevy Astro/Blazer/Suburban, or any
full size van or V8 truck.

The camping food budget is difficult to set exactly for all types and ages
of families. We often eat in fast food places when we're on the road, but
try to buy all of food at the supermarket when at our destination. We
generally spend about $20 per day for a family of 5 (kids ages 5, 3 & 1).
Figure on spending about 50% more per day at the supermarket on the road
than you do at home.

------------------------------------------------------------------

SUMMARY:

Conventional 10 Day/10 Night Resort Vacation for Family of 4 $1,800
Conventional 10 Day/10 Night Resort Vacation for Family of 6 $2,800

Fold-Down Camper 10 Day/10 Night Resort Vacation for Family of 6
$1,260
Travel Trailer 10 Day/10 Night Resort Vacation for Family of 6 $2,550

------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see clearly, the RV vacation does offer savings over the
conventional vacation. The resort vacation has covered the cost of
ownership of the camper (at a savings over the conventional vacation, I
might add). However, the _real_ savings comes in the _additional_
weekend trips.

You take your family of 4 up to the mountains for a fall foliage weekend

Conventional - 3 Days/2 Nights, Budget location

Motel Fee $50 / night x 2 nights = $100
Travel 300 miles / 25 mpg x $1.20 / gal = $ 15
Food Cost $25 / person / day x 3 days = $300
----
TOTAL = $415

Fold-Down Camper - 3 Days/2 Nights, Budget location

Campground Fee $18 / night x 2 nights = $ 36
Travel 300 miles / 20 mpg x $1.2 / gal = $ 18
Food Cost $5 / person / day x 3 days = $ 60
----
TOTAL = $114

Travel Trailer - 3 Days/2 Nights, Budget location

Campground Fee $18 / night x 2 nights = $ 36
Travel 300 miles / 12 mpg x $1.2 / gal = $ 30
Food Cost $5 / person / day x 3 days = $ 60
----
TOTAL = $126

You take your family of 6 up to the mountains for a fall foliage weekend

Conventional - 3 Days/2 Nights, Budget location

Motel Fee $50 / night x 2 nights = $100
Motel Fee for second motel room $50 x 2 nights = $100
Travel 300 miles / 25 mpg x $1.20 / gal = $ 15
Food Cost $25 / person / day x 3 days = $450
----
TOTAL = $665

Fold-Down Camper - 3 Days/2 Nights, Budget location

Campground Fee $18 / night x 2 nights = $ 36
Travel 300 miles / 20 mpg x $1.2 / gal = $ 18
Food Cost $5 / person / day x 3 days = $ 90
----
TOTAL = $144

Travel Trailer - 3 Days/2 Nights, Budget location

Campground Fee $18 / night x 2 nights = $ 36
Travel 300 miles / 12 mpg x $1.2 / gal = $ 30
Food Cost $5 / person / day x 3 days = $ 90
----
TOTAL = $156

------------------------------------------------------------------

SUMMARY:

Fold-Down Camper Additional 3 Day/2 Night Weekend Trip for Family of 4
$114
Travel Trailer Additional 3 Day/2 Night Weekend Trip for Family of 4
$126
Conventional Additional 3 Day/2 Night Weekend Trip for Family of 4
$415

Fold-Down Camper Additional 3 Day/2 Night Weekend Trip for Family of 6
$144
Travel Trailer Additional 3 Day/2 Night Weekend Trip for Family of 6
$156
Conventional Additional 3 Day/2 Night Weekend Trip for Family of 6
$665

------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice as the number of family members increases, the more economical
it is to camp over staying in a motel. Also, after paying for yearly cost of
the RV in the resort vacation, the weekend trip costs almost the same for
the fold-down vs. travel trailer, and is substantially cheaper than staying
in a motel. What usually happens is that after the expensive resort
vacation, a middle income families travel/vacation budget is wasted and
those weekend trips are nonexistent. But the weekend cost to the RVer is
only slightly over what it would have cost them to stay at home (they
would've spent $60 in groceries at home so the effective food cost is only
$30 ($90 - $60) making the additional money spent on the weekend only
about $84 ($36 + $18 + $30). This translates into several spring and fall
weekend (or just overnight) trips enjoyed in addition to the resort trip. I
think this is the main reason why people buy and use recreational vehicles
- they buy them to use and enjoy them frequently, and to maximize their
family time together.

Buying and using a recreational vehicle is a personal choice. It means that
some of the vacation time will involve food preparation, washing dishes,
trudging across the campground to the bathhouse, (although most travel
trailers and some fold-down campers have built-in showers and potties)
possible bad weather, etc. Some wives look at vacation as a time to get
away from preparing meals and doing dishes, and want to eat out every
meal on their trip (even with their husband sharing the cooking and
cleaning responsibility). It's not for everyone or everyone would be doing
it!

However, camping brings the family together in a shared experience that
creates memories that you will cherish forever. At home, after a long day
of work/motherhood we tend to plop down in front of the television. When
camping, we cuddle up under the stars in front of a campfire toasting
marshmallows and remember how much we love each other. In the
morning, the kids wake up and put on their clothes so they can go outside
to the playground (usually within sight of the camper) while I enjoy a cup
of coffee while my wife and I prepare breakfast (contrast to motel room
zoo trying to get everyone organized so you can get them off to sit down
breakfast in the restaurant).

The "Go Camping America" comparison is not invalid; however, I think my
analysis is more helpful in determining if the RV lifestyle is for you.
Camping is a better travel value; and becomes increasingly cost effective
each additional time you go, and the larger your family grows (and the
more you family eats!!).

joan <JBE...@KENTVM.KENT.EDU> writes

Bob Weinberg asked me to pass along his thoughts on how to figure the
cost of the rv vacation vs standard motel for possible use in your FAQ.
Regarding "go Camping America" I also agree that excluding the cost of the
rv in their analysis is a major flaw. Adding the initial cost of the rv is a
big step in the right direction. However, there are several additional
financial pieces that must be included in such an analysis. First, the
interest on an rv loan may be tax deductible (see your tax advisor). Second,
annual maintenance fees may be higher depending on your mechanical
abilities. Third, annual fees for insurance, license, and road service should
be included. Fourth, indoor or outdoor storage fees, if any, should be
included. Fifth, numerous startup supplies will have to be bought to set up
housekeeping. Most will come from your house, but duplicate utensils in
your rv will make quick getaways possible. In our first year of owning a
travel trailer we spent $1,600 for trailer and tow vehicle "improvements".
For the tow vehicle, these included: CB, cargo mat, full size spare wheel
& tire, brake controller disconnect plug, and larger mirrors. For the
trailer, these included indoor/outdoor rug, subscription to "Trailer Life",
membership to Camping World, Good Sams, Woodalls' "Trails Away" .
Woodall's and Trailer Life campground directories (neither were accurate),
30 amp ground fault circuit interrupter/surge protector, extra 12 volt
fuses, 25 ft 30 amp extension cord, 30/15 amp adapter, circuit tester,
voltage meter, 50 ft tv cable, battery charger, water filter and filter
mounting bracket, RV antifreeze and kit, two 25 ft fresh water hoses,
toilet cleaning wand/rinser and brass hose adapters (to connect from
shower), black water chemicals, miscellaneous sewer connections,
expandable brush and cleaner/wax for exterior, hitch pin lock, wheel
chocks, folding chairs, waste can, toaster, cup hooks, spice and magazine
racks, pitcher, hangers, dish rack, etc.... It will be up to each rv owner to
decide what is important. I also paid $5 to have our trailer weighed. Joan
says all well worth it - peace & quiet and communing with nature have
no price.

**********************************************************
3.3 Buying an RV (general)
--------------------------
Ralph writes: As to pricing, you can look to the NADA guides on used RVąs.
Many people report that asking prices are much higher then the NADA
guides, but I and others have bought within their guidelines. An other good
source for information is
RV Consumer Group
P.O. Box 520
Quilcene, Washington 98376

Phone: 360-765-3846
FAX: 360-765-3233
They carry the following books:
The Green Book RV's Rated, How to Buy an RV without getting ripped-of
and The RV Rating books (Motor Homes or Trailers, current of past 5
years).
They also have a periodical the ŚRV Lookoutą.
It is also possible to join their RV Consumer Group.

Personal note: While the information they present can be very useful I can
understand why so many of the Manufacturers will have nothing to do with
them. Their publications tend to have a lot of rhetoric and tend to be
vitriolic. Also their RV Consumer Group appears to be a 'good old boys'
club. Among other qualifications, you must be 60 years old, be sponsored
by a current member, and be approved by an officer.

Jerry writes:
So you think your are ready to take the plunge and give your hard
earned cash to some one or some dealer. Look here to see how others feel
about this activity. You may learn from some ones hard luck and save a
buck or two.

From: hk...@delphi.com
Hello all,
My friends are planning to buy an RV to travel around the U.S. after
their retirement, here are their questions, and please help give them some
ideas on;
1. What brand name to buy
2. What brand name to avoid
3. How much should a 30ft. trailer with super slide cost
4. What quality should they look for in a trailer
ex. does the bathroom has enough space to change clothes?
5. any information from you experienced RV campers out there would be
very much appreciated.

From: le...@sccsi.com (letha)
Shirley all these questions are very much dependent on personal
'taste' and their economics. Since I'm in the market to trade my 26'
Coachmen, I went showcase shopping. Enjoyed going through a $192,669
RV. I did not see anything that impressed me for that money. The
salesman kept saying it had 'real marble'. To spend that much I'd want
part of ITALY!
My Coachmen has a Ford motor and chassis. Since I'm not much of a
Ford fan, I'm now looking at GM dealers (again personal taste). As to the
question of space in a bathroom, some only have porta potties with shower
stalls. Others have full bath facilities, much as you'd have in a home.
Just tell your friends to take their time and look. Don't allow any
salesman to pressure them into an immediate sale with a 'deal'. If it is
really a deal they can come back to it another day after comparison
shopping. An RV is a purchase you will live with for quite a long time
and since space is a consideration make certain their needs are met.
Tell them to treat the thought of RV buying with the same respect
they would give to buying a house. This is exactly what they're doing
buying a house with wheels and less space to live and clean.

From: bk...@eskimo.com (Kenneth Oakman)
My wife and I purchased a used rv that was a headache, and we lost
a bunch. Determined not to have the same problem again, we really
shopped around before purchasing the 27' Southwind (83, used) that we
now own. If you purchase a used motorhome, have it INSPECTED.
We found out that the construction of the shell used in motorhomes
can lead to all sorts of hidden problems for someone who is unfamiliar
with motorhomes. Have it looked at by a MOTORHOME MECHANIC. An auto
mechanic may be able to evaluate the frame, and running gear, but please,
take it to a reputable motorhome repair shop to have the shell, and
mechanics inspected.
Before we started looking for our Southwind, I typed up a
questionnaire on the computer and printed many copies. It had check mark
areas, and line spaces for comments. If you look at a bunch of RVs, you
start to forget which one had the nice upholstery, air, awning, generator,
etc. Our questionnaire saved a lot of time because we were able to ask all
the questions on all of the rigs we saw.
I also brought along our camcorder. After looking at over 2 dozen
RVs over a few weekends, we were able to still refer to the questionnaire,
and the videotape to refresh our memory and narrow it down to the two
finalist, and are still happy with the decision.
If you are competent with wood working you can change a bedroom
from two singles to a double as my son and I did, but messing with the
shell and roof if the previous owner was negligent, is complicated, and
expensive.
The first rv we purchased was a 21' with a really open layout and
good use of room for a 21'. I did not have it inspected, and after one rainy
trip found out that there was a lot of damage inside the walls that I did
not know about. So PLEASE unless you are really sure of the unit, have it
looked at by a professional. In Seattle there are several. I had good
treatment, and was happy with Heights R/V repair in Kent Wa (almost to
Renton).
When talking to the dealer, I told them that the sale would be
contingent on the inspection report. The dealer in Parkland Wa was good
to deal with and had no problem with it.

From: bluff...@aol.com (Bluffdance)
The 2 things I did that helped me the most were:
1. Go to as many big RV shows as you possibly can. Even if you aren't
planning to buy a new unit, you can see so many different layouts and
design styles in a brief period of time, which will let you know what you
like and what to look for.
2. Go TALK to people who own RVs. I approached so many folks who
had rigs similar to what I *thought* I wanted while camping in national
parks and forests, and everyone was most gracious about sharing
information. Even though I was a relatively young, trail-dusted camper,
many folks even let me come inside and look at their units.

3.3.1 Buying RVs for cold weather
---------------------------------
From: dsch...@epix.net (David L. Schultz)
[When looking for motorhomes for use in cold weather] I would first
look for would be a motorhome equipped with a winter weather package
(extra insulation etc.). Most major motorhome maker offer this package
as an extra. Look for a motorhome from the North. For the price (I think I
paid around 100.00 extra for the added insulation on my 35 ft Allegro
Basement) you cant beat it... I would also recommend getting one of the
newer rigs with a basement and 2nd furnace. Not only is the basement
good for added storage, but it also acts as a good barrier from the cold
outdoors. The second furnace also comes in handy when the weather gets
below zero. We have gone on a few ski trips in Upstate NY and after a cold
day of skiing it is nice to know your RV heater can keep up with the cold.
When looking at your prospective purchase make sure to look at where the
water pipes are routed. Most (if not all) newer motorhomes have the
water pipes running along the bottom of the wall INSIDE the living
compartment, but I have seen some older models with the water pipes
under the floor! Not a good idea for winter travel.

Below is my personal experience and propaganda statement: I bought
my 35' Allegro Basement in March of 1989 and I can honestly say it has
been the best purchase I have ever made. For the money I personally don't
think you can find a better rig. I had mine custom made to sleep 10 (for
our USVBA volleyball team). We have taken the RV Cross Country 2 times,
countless trips to Florida, ski trips to NY and Conn., tailgate parties to
Penn State football games and much, much more. NOTE: If you can't find an
RV with the Arctic Pac Insulation, I would recommend you at least get an
RV with a pull out BBQ. When you are ready to park for the night, put on a
couple of steaks, and within no time you will have a full blown party!
Body heat does wonders... if you know what I mean!

From: "W F (Will) Sill" <wi...@grape.epix.net>
If you don't mind a waterless life, many will at least keep you from
freezing. But if you want a working john, etc., there are, IMO, no
commercially available motorhomes that are actually practical for the
conditions you mention. Some are better than others in tolerating short
bouts of cold, but even if you can keep the water supply system from
freezing with heated compartments etc., it is pretty near impossible to
keep holding tanks from destruction. Insulation is not the strong suit of
most coaches, as well, and the typical RV "furnace" is really more of an
emergency heater than anything else.
If you have the resources to buy and maintain a motor COACH on a
bus chassis, you might actually find one that's been custom made for
severe weather, but our advice is to beware of claims of winter-
worthiness on virtually anything under $100,000. We are not saying it's
impossible - just never saw one.

From: "Cox,P.E." <MOMS...@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU>
We are getting ready to buy a Teton fifth wheel. They have an Arctic
package which is climate control to -30 degree and has R25 values on the
floor and roof. Teton is one of the more expensive fifth wheels on the
market but from talking to previous owners have never met a dissatisfied
one. In addition to storm windows and great insulation they also enclose
all tanks in the heated area. The water lines in floor between bath and
kitchen are heat taped. The Teton has R25 values on the floor and roof. It
has Corian countertops, tile and wood plank floors, top construction and
opposing slides. Those slides will give us a living room that is 16 feet
across. Assuring us that we will be as comfortable in our new HOME as we
are in our stationary one.
Our 40 foot fifth wheel with big slides will be about $95,000. They
have a 30 foot for about $75,000. The Arctic package costs about $1,000
as an option.
You can call Teton directly at 307-235-1525. Their corporate office
is in Casper Wy. Their mailing address is: PO Box 2349, Mills, Wy. 82644

3.3.2 Matching the Tow Vehicle and Trailer
.....OR....
I want to tow a 45' Fifthwheel with my Honda 250CC two stroke...
Ralph writes

Obviously, there are vehicles that just shouldn't be towing other
vehicles. But lets start at the beginning. Hopefully you haven't bought
anything, yet.
First, is your projected tow vehicle equipped to tow? Does it have
everything you need built-in, or do you have to add it? This included such
things as; large radiator, transmission cooler, trailer wiring harness,
brake wiring, a trailer battery charging system, etc, etc, etc.
Next find out the manufactures maximum ratings for your tow
vehicle. That is what is the maximum weight (GVW) it can tow, what is
it's maximum combined gross vehicle weight (CGVW) and what is it's
maximum tow frontal area (GVF).
Many light truck manufactures list a different max GVW capacity for
fifthwheel towing then for bumper towing, use the right one (the
fifthwheel is often higher). Also remember you can't just move stuff from
the trailer to the tow vehicle, this still adds to the CGVW.
Finding the maximum GVF can be difficult, it's not in every towing
guide. But with the growing height in some large fifthwheel trailers it's
easy to exceed this figure.
Now figure out the weight of the trailer. This can be difficult as
some manufactures understate the dry weight of the trailer. Often leaving
any optional items off. i.e. if there is an option for which refrigerator, the
dry weight does not include any. A better idea would be to look at the
manufactures maximum GVW of the trailer. Since you should never exceed
this figure, it's not a bad starting place
OK so now you know the true dry weight of your trailer, add in all
fluids, food, cloths, etc; add a bit more, and see where you stand. Does this
exceed the max GVW of the trailer or tow vehicle, if not you may be OK.
Next add this weight to the weight of the tow vehicle, ready to go
(include, you, the kids, the dog, everything). If this figure does not exceed
the CGVW of the tow vehicle you've nearly passed the final barrier.
Figuring the GVF is actually rather easy, measure the width and the
height of the trailer. Then subtract out the distance from the road to the
trailer floor from the height. Multiply this times the width, if this passes
also, you should be good to go.
Finally you need to be concerned about hitch height. What is the
height above ground that your trailer needs to be to be towed level? What
is the height of the tow point of the vehicle? Are these heights the same?
You probably will find they are not. But you will get a 1) more stable
combination 2) less high centering or bumping the trailers rear-end on the
ground if they are. There are hitch drops available for the rear mount
hitches. Many Fifthwheel hitches also have a height adjustment, as do
some trailers.
One easy solution is to have your RV raised. This is done by reversing
the axal on the spring from above the springs to below It is also possible
to have the vehicle lowered.
I know this problem is only getting worse, my Ś92 F-150 is taller
then my fathers Ś85 F-150 and I recently had a chance to see a 95ą F-
250HD 4x4 parked next to a Ś95 Dodge Ram 4x4, looked the Ram was 6
inches taller then the Ford, the F-250 was 2 inches taller then my F-150.
According to an advance information I have received on the 97 Fords, they
will be even taller.

The understating of the RVs dry weight may improve as the industry
(RVIA) is trying to get all manufactures to state the true dry weight of all
vehicles.
-------------------------------------
<mailto:er...@oregon.cray.com> (Ernest Smith) writes
How to compute maximum towable weight

Have seen a couple of post dealing with questions on what weight
certain trucks can tow. I dug up an article from Trailer Life
Magazine (Jul 95> that might shed some light on the subject.
The article was about the Ford F250 Supercab and a 31' Sea
Breeze 5th wheel. The Ford was listed as having a axle ratio
of 4.10:1, a 4 speed auto with overdrive, and single rear wheels.
The GCVWR of the 460 is 18500 lbs and the diesel is 20000 lbs.
The curb weight of the truck was 6160 lbs (dry weight). The
Tow rating was 12500 lb. The Sea Breeze wet weight (water and
propane tanks full; no supplies or passengers) was 11680 lbs with
a GVWR of 14000 lbs. The figures look like this

SEA BREEZE
GVWR 14,000 lbs
Weight 11,680 lbs

Owner can add 2,320 lbs without violating max gvwr

Now Ford assigns a 12,500 lb trailer weight maximum, which
in this case indicates that only 820 lbs of supplies can be
added to the 11,680 lb wet weight of the trailer before
violating Ford's trailer weight maximum. However, Trailer
Life indicates that this is a gray area (the 12,500 lb max
trailer weight) and presumes that the GCVWR is the more
important guideline. Suggesting that owners who do not load
the truck heavily can add the unused capacity to the trailer
if they stay within the trailer manufacturer's gvwr and Ford's
gcwr. For example:

20,000 lbs GCVWR of the Ford Diesel
- 6,160 lbs dry weight of the Ford
__________
13,840 lbs left on GCVWR
- 1,000 lbs added to the Ford (Fuel,passengers, misc)
__________
12,840 lbs left on GCVWR
-11,680 lbs weight of Sea Breeze
_________
1,160 lbs of supplies that can be added to the trailer

Hope that this clears up some of the questions that I have seen
concerning tow ratings. Now of course, I take no responsibility
for any of the above figures or recommendations.

------------------------------------------------
3.3.2.2 Typical FWD car/minivan towing capabilities.

Jason T. Douglas <jdou...@mitre.org> writes

Obviously, check the owner's manual or with the manufacturer (don't
bother with the dealer unless its a new car). Many smaller cars will only
tow ~1000 pounds, so do check. Typical capabilities for a minivan are
2000 pounds, but note that this is often with just two passengers and
their luggage. With a family, the corresponding rated capacity drops.
What you really need to find out is the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight
(GCWR) rating, which is the max combined weight of the vehicle and the
load you want to pull. You also need to know the empty or curb weight of
you car/van. The curb weights of the car/van and the trailer plus the
passengers and "luggage" should be under the GCWR. There is also often a
maximum frontal area for the trailer (in square feet).

Many manufacturers offer an optional trailer towing package that
increases the rated load from 2000 to 3500 pounds. The 3500 pound
rating must also be reduced if more than 2 passengers and luggage are
carried.

As an example, the Caravan/Voyageur/Town & Country towing package
increases the rating from 2000 to 3500 and includes upgrades to the
suspension, radiator, alternator, and flasher. It also adds an auxiliary
transmission cooler and wiring for the trailer. Finally, it includes an
upgrade to 15"wheels and the associated brakes, although many are
equipped with these brakes anyway. Chrysler says that these ratings are
good for "reasonably flat roads at seasonable ambient temperatures" but
tests their vehicles at 100+ on 4-8 percent grades.

Many folks worry that towing places a severe strain on their vehicle or
causes it to wear out faster. While this is could be true of really heavy
loads, like 6000+ pound travel trailers, a 2000 pound load is not really
that great if your car is properly equipped and carefully maintained. You
will have to change transmission oil and filters regularly, and you will
see increased brake wear (unless you get brakes on your trailer). You
should also get a transmission cooler if you have an automatic.

In general, the car companies are conservative about their ratings (i.e., the
cars can do more - at least when new). However, you will have to adjust
your driving to conditions - i.e., SLOW DOWN.

Finally, the average FWD family car or van is only really adequate for a
pop-up or the smallest of travel trailers. Towing a serious trailer
requires the power, cooling, and structural strength of a rear drive, V8
equipped truck, sport utility, or full sized sedan.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Upgrading engine & transmission cooling

There are many options for upgrades here. Most are reasonably priced and
can be easily installed by the back yard mechanic.

General: Cooling systems deteriorate with age unless properly maintained.
If your radiator has some clogged passages, the cooling capacity will be
substantially reduced, even though it may be sufficient for light duty. The
solution is to have it flow tested (not pressure tested) and either replaced
or "rodded out" if it is lacking. Other possible problem areas are
collapsing hoses (the lower hose should have a spring in it. without the
spring, it can collapse under negative pressure at higher rpm), insufficient
antifreeze, weak pressure caps, glazed or loose belts for the fan and
water pump, the thermostat, and thermally operated fan clutches. For
electric fans the sensor that switches on the fan and the fan motor itself
are also possibilities.

If your engine is getting hot, shut off the a/c and slow down. Turning on
the heat will also take up some of the load. You can also reduce the load
by stopping and placing the transmission in neutral. If your car has an
electric fan don't rev the engine. Opening the hood also improves air flow,
which can provide 15% of your total cooling capacity.

Transmission coolers: Most light duty cars come from the factory with a
transmission cooler integral to the radiator. It's often just a straight
pipe in the radiator should probably be upgraded even if you don't tow
much. The folks that sell coolers say 90% of transmission failures are
due to overheating, so a $60 cooler is a good investment. Coolers are
attached to radiators with nylon ties that poke through the radiator mesh.
Since the load is usually spread over 4 areas, with each a square inch or
more and the coolers are light, this seems to be a good solution.

Coolers are either made with finned pipes (like a radiator) or "stacked
plates." The stacked plate designs are smaller (for the same rating) and
are considered better. Make sure you get one big enough, as you can't
overcool a transmission. Do make sure, however, that you install it in
series with the cooler in the radiator, and with the oil flowing from the
transmission to the radiator to the cooler. At ambient temperatures
below -10 to -30 F, the oil thickens sufficiently that a pressure operated
bypass valve inside the transmission may close, so you get no trans
cooling until the cooler warms up. Fortunately, the coolant in the radiator
will help warm the trans oil, thus solving the problem.

BTW, the heat output of a 4 speed transmission "spikes" up when the
torque converter locks or unlocks. Keep it in OD on terrain where the OD
stays on. Drive in "3" or with the OD switched off when driving under
other conditions.

Finally, if you run your transmission hot, you might want to consider
synthetic transmission oil, such as mobil one. It can stand up to higher
temperatures and changes its viscosity less than mineral oil based fluid.
Unfortunately, it is not available for vehicles that require chrysler
transmission fluid (yes, the chrysler fluid really is different).

Radiator: Replacing a radiator is too expensive unless yours is worn out.
There are other tricks.

Auxiliary fan: The airflow through the radiator is very important. The a/c
condensor and add-on coolers will reduce this air flow. If you've added
equipment and don't get the cooling you expect, consider an electric fan on
the front side of the "stack" of coolers. A "pusher" fan can significantly
improve cooling and can be wired to a dash operated switch or to a factory
installed electric fan (using a relay). Fans start at $60-70.

Engine oil cooler: These differ from transmission oil coolers in having
bigger passages for higher flow rates. Typically, installation is with a
fitting the attaches where the oil filter normally goes. The (relocated)
filter and cooler are connected to the fitting with flexible hose. Cooling
your oil can have a significant effect on the overall engine temperature,
and is a common technique on small high performance engines. Whether or
not your oil is cooled, consider using a synthetic oil if your engine runs
hot. BTW, the consensus on the automotive groups is to avoid oil
treatments like slick-fifty.

Water spray: There are systems for on-demand spraying of water in front
of the radiator. Since you would run out of water if used all the time, this
is a solution only when climbing hills. It is most effective in dry
climates.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

3. Coleman Pop-Ups

While the purist might say these aren't RVs, they share many of same
issues as their bigger cousins. There are also a great compromise
between tent and RV camping, and offer an easy way to get started on RVs.
They are cheaper and can also be towed by the average family car). In
seasonable weather, the provide most of the comforts of a "real" trailer or
motorhome but have the open-air feel of a tent (n.b. - noisy neighbors will
keep you up more than in a trailer). Finally, pop-ups only take up as much
space as a car and can be stored in an extra parking space or a garage.

Coleman makes about a third of the pop-up campers and first introduced
their line in the late 60s, but sold the entire business to Fleetwood
several years ago. Fleetwood, a huge trailer and home building company,
has been steadily upgrading the Coleman line. The Coleman trailer is a
premium product and commands a high price new and used. You may also
find that Coleman parts are a little more expensive than generic parts.

The typical trailer has a cable operated mechanism for lifting a hard
(aluminum or plastic) roof. Double or queen sized beds slide out from both
ends, and are usually supported with metal rods placed between the floor
of the bed and the trailer frame. The walls and the roof over the beds is
made out of canvas, although some manufacturers coat it with vinyl.
Coleman has used "Evolution 3" for several years (used in premium car
covers) and recently switched to "Sunbrella," a material used for car and
boat covertable tops. These can stand a hard rain with no leakage. There
are also hard-sided pop-ups, but these cost much, are much heavier, and
are a rather specialized subspecies. Hopefully, someone else (who knows
about them) can write about them.

The newer trailers have a steel frame with an aluminum skin. The floor is
made of a single sheet of oriented strand board, a manufactured wood, and
is covered with vinyl. Equipment can include indoor and outdoor lighting,
gas stoves, sinks, propane furnaces, air conditioners, hot water, showers,
and cassette toilets.

3.4 Buying an RV (Specific brands in alphabetical order)
------------------------------------------------------------------
This section contains type of chassis (Ford Chevrolet, etc.) for a
given brand and owners reports on success or failure.

3.4.1 Airstream
-------------------
cope...@fohnix.metronet.com (Charles Copeland) writes:
>I found a 30' Airstream travel trailer for a good price, but hesitate
>to buy. Are parts still available for this? How about those rounded
>tubs and sinks? Anything I should know about these?

Yes, Airstream is still in production... If your unit is sound after a
little of work and re-do work the main difference between your older one
and a new $60,000 unit is that yours is PAID FOR. :)
Now... what to watch for ... well, check for cracked frame close to
the wheels if you have a rear bath... Look for electric breaks.. Check for
leaks in the holding tank and water tank... Frozen pipes. roof leaks..
You did not say how old... well talk to a dealer and ask him how much
would the salvage value or what would he pay for it... If he knows you will
be buying parts and service from him he will help you a lot..
If you get it the unit PLEASE join the WBCCI club. a nice bunch of
folks.

William F Sill - wi...@epix.net
We had a '68 Airstream for 10 years, hauled it about 100,000 miles,
wore out three sets of tires. In that time frame they were THE best
trailer of the type on the road. Bar none. They are relatively light, bull
strong, best suspension anybody has put under a trailer, and they trail
better than square trailers. Their construction is vastly superior to stick
& staple chicken-house trailers.
Flip side: the appliances were not noticeably better than brand X, and
NO KIND of box trailer tows as nice as a fiver. They are viewed by many as
uglier than my wife's first husband (me) and airstream dealers are getting
fairly scarce because they have gone bonkers on pricing and gadgets. Lots
of the old time dealers don't want to handle them anymore, and modern
Avions have many of the features.
<cal...@airmail.net> (Don Reasons)
June 1, 1996

Hello, Airstreamers...

Last year I wrote (president) Larry Huttle a letter with many
questions about the Airstream Company. He responded with a very
polite letter and a one-page information sheet on the Airstream.
Because of the great detail of my questions, the short information
sheet only touched on the things I wanted to find out. Later, I
called the company to get some more information. Unfortunately, no
one I talked to knew very much about the history of the product or the
company. So, I went "on-line" and began to ask questions on the
internet.

Over the last few months, I have corresponded via e-mail with several
Airstreamers. The following is information from three different
Airstream owners. I will continue to add to this as I receive new
information. Most of this is in their original words with only slight
editing.

(Many of you have some of this. Please forgive the duplication.)

Enjoy!!!

Earler Airstreams had names which corresponded to the length of the
trailer. Here is the information from Airstreamer number 1...

Airstream Basics

The major bodystyle change was in '68, that body lasted until the '94
models. I believe grey water tanks were added around '70 or '71.
Here are the names and sizes.

Pre 1968

Bambi 14'
Caravelle 17'
Globetrotter 20'
Safari 22'
Tradewind 24'
Overlander 26'
Ambassador 28'
Sovereign 30'

After 1968 (new body)

Globetrotter 21'
Safari 23'
Tradewind 25'
Overlander 27'
Ambassador 29'
Sovreign 31'
Excella 500 31'

The International Package included small options and water filter.
The Caravelle name came back for a couple of years in the early '80's
on a small 21-23" Airstream, but I don't remember the details.

The name/size relationship ended around '82 or '83, when all sizes
could be had in several series, Sovreign, Excella, and Limited. Also,
sizes and names, etc. were not consistant and changed every few years,
I pretty much lose track after '82 or so. First year for 34' Triple
axle size was 1983.

Anyway, guess not many people liked the rear bath by the '80s and it
was discontinued. It came back again around '89 or '90 in the 30 ft.
for two years, don't think many were made.

Most of the weight in the newer models is from the Oak cabinets and
corian countertops. When people stopped using cars and went to
suburbans and club wagons, why worry about weight? They are about
1,000lbs heavier after '84 or so.

Argosy.

Not sure when exactly it started, I think around '71 thru late '70s
early 80's. It was simply a decontented, beige painted Airstream. You
could strip one, change some emblems and have an Airstream. Argosy
Motorhomes were also made till '78.

Now, about 6 years ago, Airsream made a squareish, bonded (glued)
aluminum trailer, painted beige and called it an Argosy, They also
made a very few 5th wheels. That Argosy only lasted about a year or
two, then they painted it silver and called it an Airstream Land
Yacht. We called it a SQUARESTREAM---it didn't
sell.....perhaps because at that time only "classic styled" Airstreams
were allowed in the club. WE WERE NOT AMUSED.

Larry Huttle, president of Airstream spoke at the Sarasota Rally. They
just introduced the new 5th wheel, Integrity by Airstream (kind of
like Cimmeron by Cadillac) it's not REALLY an Airstream.

They made all '96 Airstreams widebodys, adding 6inchs to the width.
Next project is going back to the aluminum cabinets!!! on a 21-25'
lightweight classic trailer that can be towed by a car.

>From Airstreamer Number 2...

We own a '77 31' Airstream, and my research says about 25% of models
made around that time were rear bath models. Unfortunately, in the
70's two things happened: Airstream attempted to redesign the body /
frame for lighter weight and better mileage, and also, AIrstream was
purchased by Beatrice Foods. Our '77 model is typical of rear bath
models of that vintage in that there has been significant frame warp
around the wheels, which, if left untreated, will cause the body to
warp and bulge badly. We had the frame reinforced and had
the rear end tied back to the frame where it had separated. This is a
fairly common job on rear bath models at Airstream dealers, and it
cost us about $1700 to restore our Airstream in this way.

I would suspect that Airstream saw what was happening after only a few
years and discontinued the rear bath models due to frame problems.

One more thing, in early models of the 34' Airstreams, about 82 - 84,
they had frame problems very similar to those that we experienced, and
I spoke with a man who owned one. I could see the same characteristic
bulges in the wheelwells above the tires...

And more info from Airstreamer Number 3...

I have a '67 safari international (just barely before the '68 cutoff.
By the way, is this when they changed the chassis or was it just a
makeover of the exterior?) and regardless of the numbers they
officially list in the owner's manual, the 22' safari is about the
same lenth as the later 23' safari, which is to say 22'11". also,
almost all models had the option of splitting up the beds ("twin" i
think they add to the model apellation).

I am also told that airstream was bought by Beatrice foods in 1972,
and at that time went through some major design and construction
changes {supposedly for the worse} but if you know more about this,
I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Conclusion...

OK, folks, that's all the news I have at this time. If you have any
comments or additional information, PLEASE e-mail me.

I have a few specific questions:

1. When did Wally Byam become the "non-owner" of Airstream and what
were the circumstances or reasons?

2. When did Wally Byam pass away and what was his relationship with
the company at that time?

3. What about the Beatrice Foods connection and when and how did they
actually change the trailers?

4. When did "Thor" come into the picture?

I hope you enjoyed this visit down Memory Lane.

3.4.2 Award
-----
From: Judith B. Glad - hey...@teleport.com
Awards are great trailers. We have had two and loved them both.
They aren't perfect. We had our share of new-trailer-headaches with both.
But they are a joy to tow. We pull a 27' with a Ford Explorer and get 12-
14 mpg, depending on topography and headwinds. They turn on a dime, too.
If you'd like any detailed info, write me via e-mail and tell me what you
want to know. Jude

3.4.3 Coleman (hardside)
From: Wes Fujii - we...@boi.hp.com

Paul Hoffman (hoff...@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA) wrote:

: If you are interested in the hard side Coleman you should probably act
: quickly since there was talk that they were being discontinued. I am
: a little curious as to why you would want the hard side as opposed to the
: soft sides. With the soft side ventilation is much better since there
: tends to be screening all the way around the unit. With the materials
: they are using nowadays durability and leakage seem to be fairly well
: looked after.

The ventilation stuff is definitely true. Ventilation on our hard
side is probably 1/3 what it is in the similar soft side. We bought
the hard side because it doesn't flap in the wind and the visibility
through the glass windows is undistorted. When the windows are open,
there isn't a plastic "roll" that the kids are always playing with
and yanking on. You can also lean stuff on the walls inside and not
have them move.

There are a few other downsides to the hardsided (at least Coleman's).
Because of the sides "stacking" when the trailer is folded, it makes
for a real tall trailer (57") It's significant if you are used to
pulling a lower one. I can still see over it because we pull it
behind a full sized truck, but if we pulled it with a car, there is
no way that we would see over the thing. The roof line is about the
same height as the roof of our Taurus. Weight is a biggie, as
carrying walls and glass windows instead of fabric is a consideration.
With the water tank full (20 gal) and two full propane bottles, I
figure that my towing weight is over 2200 lbs, easy. And that's
without many canned food goods on board. Another downside for the
Coleman's is the price. It's really pricy compared to the rest, and
that's probably the reason that they may be removing them from their
model line. Most folks are buying pop-ups for their convenience and
entry price. When the price gets too high, sales go way down. At
a higher price, folks are looking at "real" hardsided trailers.

So far, construction integrity on our trailer appears to be fine, so
I don't think that is the problem.

3.4.4 Escaper
-------
From: Charles Copeland - cope...@fohnix.metronet.com asks
>I've come across a 1989 ESCAPER "C" class motorhome thatąs 21' long.
>It has a chevy 350 and low miles. I believe its made by Damon
>buy not sure.
>
>Anybody have any pros or cons on this unit? > >--

From: Rudi Wiedemann - WIED...@ix.netcom.com
Dear Charles:
Although the RV I own is not a Class C, I do own a 1994 25' Class A
unit made by Damon, which also makes the "Escaper" series. They are now
most popular as a large 5th wheel. I've been reading about all the hassles
other owners have had with RV chassis' and systems, but so far I have had
no problems with my rig (maybe I shouldn't have said that yet, heh).
Damon seems to do a pretty good job in the layout and construction
of their rigs. I saw the new 95 models recently, and have noticed some
good design changes well implemented.
If the 89 you're looking at is representative of the current Damon
quality levels, it should be a good rig.

3.4.5 LeSharo, Phasar (Renault based units)
--------------------------------------
Ralph writes:
There are a lot of Śgood dealsą available on these units. There is a very
good -BAD- reason for this. The engine/drive train is completely
inadequate. There is almost no support or parts available.
A source for part is: Mobility RV, their phone number is 800-933-7742
and they have a Web page at <http://www.rvhome.com>

BJ Nash writes:
bjn...@connectnet.com (BJ Nash)

Well, as those of you who have been following this know, we've
purchased a wrecked 1995 Pontiac Grand Prie with a good engine/tranny
package (10k miles), and have removed it from the vehicle intact with
all cabling , hoses, etc, intact with a view to installing it in the
La Sharo. The La Sharo has had the old Renault engine/trans removed
along with all associated hoses, pipes, wiring, etc. We have removed
the front end grill and bumber, the drive axels and front hubs and
steam cleaned the engine compartment and painted it. We are now ready
for the fitting of the GMC 3.4 V-6 engine and transmission.

It appears that this package was a good choice as it is slightly
smaller in width than the La Sharo engine compartment. However there
appears there may be some interference from the existing La Sharo
power steering unit, so we will remove it for now with the intention
of fitting it back with new welded brackets after the new engine is in
postion for installation. When we are sure the new engine/trans
assembley will fit and line up properly with the front drive axels,
we will weld new engine mount plates to hold it, using as much as
possible of the old Pontiac engine mounts. We will then cut and fit
the Pontiac engine side drive axels to the La Sharo wheel side drive
axels and reinstall the front hubs and power steering unit.

I will post here from time to time for those interested in this
conversion progress. Bill Nash

3.5 Technical Stuff and Accessories
------------------------------------
Types of tow vehicles and recommendations. Are rubber roofs
better? Why or why not a diesel? Do I really need an automatically
deployed satellite dish with an automatic repositioner? and why? :-)

3.5.1 So you want a Diesel
--------------------
From: Jerry W. Segers Je...@PeachNet.EDU

I don't know about diesels in motorhomes but I have owned and maintained
6 diesel vehicles (still drive and maintain two). 2 Oldsmobile V-8's, 2
Mercedes 4 cylinders, 1 Mercedes 5 cylinder and one GMC V-8. If they ever
had a diesel smell it was because they were broken or serviced
improperly. Diesel fuel is thick and evaporates slowly unlike gasoline
which is very volatile. If you step in diesel fuel then step into the cab,
some of the fuel rubs off on the carpet and will give off an odor for many
weeks before it is all gone. This seldom happens with gasoline because
the puddle at the pump will evaporate in a few minutes so it never gets
stepped in and even if it comes inside a good airing out will fix the
problem in a day or so. This the major reason for the complaint about
diesel smell. The other is a broken exhaust or other mechanical problem.

My brother, the diesel mechanic, says to look carefully at the Dodge with
the Cummings diesel engine. He seems to like them better than the Fords.
Says they are more reliable and pulls better (Whatever that means) but I
have no stats. to back that up.

When I purchase my next RV it will have a diesel engine with an electric
block heater. Diesels do not like to crank when they are cold but they get
wonderful fuel mileage compared to gasoline units. I figure I can plug the
heater in when it is cold for the lower operating cost and longer engine
life (500,000 miles or more is not unreasonable). As an example, I
understand a Greyhound bus style unit get 6-8 miles per gallon diesel and
1/2 to 1 on gasoline. I have only seen one gasoline rig this big and the
driver complained about the limited range on the 500 gallon tank but the
owner of the rig did not want the diesel smell. I guess if you can afford to
have someone drive your RV you don't need to care about the mileage :-)

One word of caution - While diesels pull well and get good mileage, they in
general have poor acceleration. They have a very narrow performance
range and need a good gearbox with lots of different speeds to be able to
start OK and still perform at high speeds. This is the reason over the road
tractors have 12 or more forward gears. If you like to have your head bang
the seat when you stomp the throttle you had better not buy a diesel.

3.5.2 Washers and Dryers
------------------
From: Ed Taylor <eta...@nr.infi.net>

We have a combination unit in our MH - manufactured in Sweden - with
trade name "Spendide." This is a front load unit, with reversing tumbler
action (keeps clothes from tangling). Automatically goes to dry cycle at
the end of the wash.

This unit does a good job of getting the clothes clean, although it has
somewhat smaller capacity than a stacked pair. The stacked unit uses
approx. 2-3 times as much water per load. We are able to wash while
moving down the road - saves time when we arrive at destinations.

This may not be a concern in your 5th wheel. I would recommend you look
for a stacked pair - available at most appliance dealers, and possibly at
discount merchants. Although smaller than standard washers, will still
handle a 10-12 LB load. Dryers are only 110V, and so are much slower
than you are used to at home. These units do take up more space than the
combination units, and are much heavier, if that is a consideration.

Either way, you'll enjoy convenience of not having to run to a Laundromat.

3.5.3 Oil Stabilizer
--------------
From: Steve and Terri Carl ter...@neosoft.com

Is there anyone else out there that has used the Lucas oil stabilizer? My
RV has a moderately high-mileage engine (75k on an 85 Ford 460 gas
engine), and it was using oil at the rate of about a quart every fill up. I
tried all sorts of stuff in there, figuring the worse that could happen was
that I have to give up, and replace the engine. On a lark, while on a trip in
Alabama, I picked up a quart of this stuff called Lucas Oil Stabilizer,
making all sort of claims on the label about stopping oil loss, etc. I
decided 'what the heck', nothing else has worked, and put a quart in. I
haven't used any oil since then.

Is this stuff glue? I don't think I'm burning the oil, I think it is a pressure
leak, so I think this filled in the hole or whatever. When I changed the oil,
the engine slowly returned to it's oil burning ways. I sent to Alabama (Dad
lives near the store I got the stuff in ) and got another quart. Same story.
Leak fixed. It works so well I'm a bit concerned about what it is: are my
pistons going to be glued to the cylinder walls here?

Ralph writes
I have seen studies that these oil additives are useful, but may not be
worth the prices. Also that they do no appear to last as long as the 50K
rating given by many people.

3.5.4 Overheating (Engine)
--------------------
From: Jerry W. Segers Je...@PeachNet.EDU

While I have no experience with the exact engine and chassis you are
using, there are several common caused for overheating in Ford and other
engines.

1 - Heat riser in the exhaust stuck closed. In the exhaust manifold near
the point where the exhaust pipe connects, there is a damper inside the
pipe that is operated by a spring thermostat and counterweight. It is
closed when the engine is cold and opens as the engine warms to help the
engine warm up more quickly. When engines sit for long times without
being run (2 or more weeks) the shaft tends to rust and the valve sticks
in the closed position. This creates back pressure on the engine that
causes overheating. Check the weight on the shaft to be sure it swings
free. Sometimes a tap after adding penetrating oil will free a stick shaft.
CAUTION; The shaft breaks easily. When in doubt let someone else break
it. Removing a V8 manifold to replace the valve in an RV is not a pleasant
task.

2 - The radiator is plugged internal or external. First check for leaves,
bugs and trash in the front of the radiator. Next consider that the radiator
may be blocked inside and needs to be back flushed or repaired.

3 - Someone has installed the lower radiator hose with the internal coil
missing. Lower radiator hoses have a coil of wire inside then to keep the
hose from collapsing and blocking the flow at high speeds. (This is a hard
to spot problem that most mechanics miss unless it has happened to them
before since the engine operates normally at lower speeds). A quick check
is to pinch the lower hose in several spots (When the engine is cold of
course). If the hose easily mashes flat you probably have a problem,
replace the hose. Note: Compare to the upper hose which has no spring
inside.

4 - The carburetor is miss-adjusted. A lean mixture will burn hotter and
cause overheating on a pull. This condition can also be caused by a leaking
power brake unit or other vacuum device that lets extra air into the
manifold. Have a mechanic check the engine with a vacuum gauge and
compare the reading to the specifications. Be sure to have him press the
brakes while testing to be sure the diaphragm has not sealed itself
momentarily.

5 - The ignition timing is wrong. If the timing is too fast then the fuel
ignites too soon and the engine is working against itself. This will cause
overheating on trip. How long it takes depends on the amount of error.
Have a mechanic check the timing with a dynamic timing light. Note: if
the timing is wrong a full tune up is probably in order since it almost
never slips out of adjustment. Some one set it wrong or there are worn
parts in the distributor -- see next item.

6 - The automatic timing advance/retard is stick leaking or otherwise
broken. This result in improper ignition timing at high speeds but may be
OK at slow speeds. Have the mechanic check this while the timing light is
on the engine.

7 - A broken or erratic electronic ignition. If the engine has a computer
controlled spark, a faulty computer that changes the timing improperly
when the engine is under load will cause overheating. Include broken
sensors to the computer under this heading. Things like the temperature
sensor, Oxygen sensor, throttle position sensor, etc. The only way I have
found to find this problem is start substituting parts. Few repair shops
have the instruments or the specifications needed to test these
components. Naturally you should save this diagnosis until last. It may be
less expensive to stop on long pulls and let the engine cool :-)

8 - Low transmission fluid or a miss-adjusted transmission. These units
will slip under load causing extra heat which is dissipated in the radiator
and causes overheating. (Automatic transmissions only of course). Check
to see that the fluid level is correct. When you get desperate have a
mechanic check the transmission pressures with a pressure gauge under
driving conditions.

9 - Miss-adjusted main or parking brakes. The extra drag from the brakes
will put an extra load on the engine and cause it and the brakes to
overheat. Diagnosis of this problem is easy. When the engine is
overheated are the brakes poor.

10 - Improper design. As I stated I have no experience with your rig but I
have seen rigs that did not have enough air flow and/or too small a
radiator to keep them cool on hot days under heavy loads. To solve this
problem get an auxiliary fan placed in front of the radiator. If your fuel
mileage is normal and other things check out. This is a good stop gap
measure. It will cause your engine to run cooler and last longer in any
case. Be sure to install a thermostatic control so the fan does not run
when the engine is cool or you may never get it up to operating
temperature.

I am sure there are many other reasons for overheating but from my
experience there is a strong possibility that the cause is listed above. Let
me know how it turns out. If I am wrong I would like to add another
experience to my list.

3.5.5 Overheating (Coach Air problem)
-------------------------------

Unknown asked:
> I have a new 33' Sea Breeze with two 13,500 BTU roof mounted
>a/c's. The problem is that it's just not comfortable inside while
>parked. The 5. 2kw genset produces 50 amps and you can use both roof
>a/c's when it's running. However, the shore cord only allows 30 amps
>into the system and will NOT allow the use of both units while
>parked......

Greg Schulz gsc...@free.org Wrote:

Your roof air dilemma is not unusual. There should be a way to
"upgrade" your shore line to 50amps, but it may cost more that it is
worth.

It is no surprise that the factory rep did not suggest adding a second
shore line to power the second air conditioner. The coach manufacture is
prohibited from doing this per RVIA codes, and electrical codes in some
states as well.

There is a product that may work as a compromise call Pulse Air
from Trans-Tech, Inc. Plano TX. Phone (214) 422-4637. This device is a
power management system that enables both RV air conditioners to cycle
alternately.

3.5.6 Rebuilding older RVąs
----------------------------
From: Ralph <drag...@scn.org>
One of the problems that is common in RVąs is rotting of the wood
framing. This can occur even in brand new rigs, but is most common in
older or poorly maintained RVąs. It is also common in rigs that are left out
in the weather.
I recently spent several weeks working on the wooden framing of both
my older 5th wheel and a friends Class C. To say I learned a lot is an
understatement.
I believe that any moderately skilled owner can do his own repairs. He
needs to be able to do woodwork from light framing to cabinetry work. He
also needs to be able to do a certain amount of metal work. I have a very
well equipped shop and had no real difficulties. I believe that if you have
just a moderately equipped shop it is possible to complete these repairs.
One of difficulties in this type of repair is that the repairs must be as
self-supporting as possible, through-out the repair. The reason for this is
that the external skin of the rig is not really self-supporting after the
wood framing and interior skin is removed.
My best recommendation is to remove the framing in sections and
replace it. I do not think you want to remove everything at once, you could
get into a situation where there is nothing to support the outer skin of the
rig.

From: George Tews, gt...@execpc.com
>I recently purchased a used - old, Concord Motor home. This is my
>first Motor Home. It needs lots of work, but the price was right. My
>biggest problem, is obtaining parts, and technical help. Concord is
>out of business, so I have to custom make some internal items, but my
>big problem is finding chassis parts and info. It is built on a 1975
>Chrysler frame. It has power assisted brakes. I am experienced with
>common auto brakes, but these are all new to me. Can anyone suggest a
>book, where I can get info about the brakes, and other chassis stuff.
>I would also like to get a wiring diagram, if at all possible.
>
> One other thing. There are two gasoline tanks, and a solenoid that
>switches to the reserve tank. This solenoid does not work. The gas
>gauge shows the "reserve tank level", but apparently the solenoid is
>not switching. I found that out, when I ran out of gas. WHERE can I
>get a replacement solenoid? And, if needed, where can I get parts for
>the power assist brakes, or other chassis parts. Does Chrysler have
>any chassis or truck manuals, and if so, where do I contact them.
>Please help if you can.
>
>PS. This is a 10 ton chassis.

Jerry W. Segers - Je...@PeachNet.EDU replies

I have a '68 model Lifetime orphan built on a Dodge chassis and I have
found that many replacement chassis parts can still be obtained from my
local NAPA (National Auto Parts Association) dealer. They frequently
have to order the part from their warehouse but since I am near (25 miles)
from their southeastern warehouse in Atlanta it usually only takes one
day. I have also found that my local Dodge car dealer and junk yards with
a connection to the national computer network work well for dealer only
items.

You should be able to get a workable replacement for the fuel switch from
almost any of the sources listed above. Take the old part with you to be
sure the pipe sizes are correct.

I have found several sources for manuals. First, ask your local Dodge car
or truck dealer where they order older service manuals. They will
probably give you the address of one of three places. The Chrysler
publishing company (Sorry they do not list an address in their manuals :-(
), Helm Publications - 1-800-782- 4356, or Lansing Lithographers,
Lansing Michigan. I don't remember which company stocked my manual.
Another source of information is back issues of the "Motors" auto/truck
repair manual or a similar book by "Chilton". These books were published
by year and old copies are still available in many local libraries (Try a
nearby college library if the public library does not have a copy). If all
else fails, detail the problem here and you will probably get a starting
point for a solution.

Each major sub system of the chassis will have a rebuilder in many large
cities. Look in the yellow pages for Brake, Power Steering, or Engine
rebuilders for example. I rebuilt the wheel cylinders using new parts
from NAPA but I took the master cylinder and power booster units to a
rebuilder in Atlanta because the parts were rusted and I could not find
rebuild kits. The way the rebuilders can succeed is that they stock all
sizes of the various parts so they can take the old part and match it with
a new one from their stock. They also have cross reference lists that
cover the internal parts for their specialty sub system.

For repair services, check with your local truck repair facility (Hertz,
Ryder, etc). Most larger cities have one or more. Older motorhomes were
built on standard work truck chassis instead of the specialized chassis
designed for motorhomes in use today. The local repair facility can help
you find parts and can do repairs that need special equipment like remove
the rusted lug nuts or align the front end after a steering unit repair.

Wiring diagrams??? Good Luck!!! Perhaps your newer unit will have less
confusion than my '68. My chassis wiring was chopped up by the body
installer to make it reach the dash and other components. Wire colors
were scrambled and wire sized were changed to provide more power in key
areas. In short the wiring diagram was almost useless except to show
what components were originally connected to what. I could not relate
the diagram to the actual wiring. I did find a very useful device at my
local telephone service tool supplier. One company in Atlanta is Greybar
and a national mail order company is Specialized Tools. The device I use
is a telephone wire tracer that comes in two parts. Disconnect the
battery, connect the signal injector part between ground and the wire in
question then drag the sensor part along the wiring harness. You will hear
a warble tone when you are near the wire and silence when you move away.
I have been able to find "missing" wires inside the wall and figure out
what was connected to what with this device.

Finally and most importantly find another RV'er with a similar unit and
ask for help. You may find someone that will give you the part then come
over an help install it. :-)

You have embarked on an adventure in puzzle solving - have fun

-------------------------------------------------------
3.5.7 I want to dust proof my trailer

Jerry Segers <Je...@PeachNet.EDU> writes:

I have never tried it with a travel trailer but I saw a method that was
designed to improve the insulation in houses and a modification worked on
my motorhome. The trick is to seal all (And I mean ALL) of the holes in
the outer skin. Even a pin hole will take in pounds of dust over a short
period of time.

The method I used was to take a piece of plywood and cut it to fit the
door. Next cut a hole in the plywood the size of the outlet of a large
fan. (A furnace blower will work, I used an old window fan). Attach
the fan over the hole and seal with duct tape. Next seal the plywood to the
door opening with duct tape and turn on the fan so that it blows into the
camper. (Note: if the camper only has one door you should be sealed inside
or you can't take the next step :-)) Now take a smoke generating device (If
you smoke -Bad Habit you should quit - use a lighted cigarette otherwise a
common candle will work) and move it near all the places where there are
cracks, like around cabinets, the ceiling to wall junction, the windows,
etc. When you get near a hole the smoke or flame will be drawn towards
the hole. Fix the hole using whatever sealer fits the job. Some bigger
holes can be fixed with sealers like Great Stuff, you can use the sealer
from RV supply houses that looks like a long strip of pre chewed chewing
gum for smaller ones and special gaskets may be needed for other.
Continue this process until all holes are sealed then remove the fan,
visually check the door seal and repair if needed then take it out on a
dusty road to try it out. You will be surprised how little dust can still get
in if you have done a good job.

Hope this helps

-- Jerry
***************************************
3.5.8 Deep Cycle Batteries
Jerry Segers writes

Other posters have indicated that you do not want to connect dissimilar
batteries in parallel. Let me give you some information I gleaned from an
Exide engineer some years back when Exide was installing the emergency
battery systems that control the flood gates at the Alatoona dam just
north of Atlanta. The Corps of Engineers had problems with the batterys
for year. They last only one or two years before needing replacement.
Exide won the next bid then explained and fixed the problem as follows:

1 - All lead acid cells are constructed on the same principal, Lead
plates in a sulfuric acid solution. The difference is in the construction of
the components. When a cell charges and discharges some lead sulfite
(fide - I don't remember) forms on the plates then flakes off and drops to
the bottom of the cell. This flaking is good because it exposes more lead
and keeps the cell from deteriorating. Thus to make a deep cycle cell you
need to do two things. First add more lead to the plates so you don't run
out of lead then make a larger space below the plates to hold the flakes
because when the flakes fill the space and touch the bottom of the plates
they short the plates and kill the cell. (The Exide fellow claimed that
Exide had the thickest plates and the largest storage area at the bottom in
the industry)

Perhaps I should note here for those that don't know -- a 12 volt battery
is made up of 6 cells producing 2.14 (Or so ) volts each connected in series
to form a nominal 12 volt battery. Today the connections are usually
buried inside the plastic of the box for convenience but they could be
wires or bars as in days gone by.

2 - Note that to preserve the cell action you need the flaking action to
occur. If you slowly charge and discharge the cell there is not enough
action to cause the flaking, the sulfur compounds build up on the plates
and reduce the contact between the lead and the acid. This increases the
internal resistance of the cell until it will not take a charge and will
produce little external power (It will get hot if you attempt to drain it
however).

3 - Thus to keep a cell working properly you need to drain it to something
like half or less charge and recharge it at a high rate (30-60 Amperes for
automotive size cells) until each cell is gasing freely. (Watch the temp
and be careful because the gas that is escaping is hydrogen). This action
once per month at the dam resulted in batteries that lasted over 10 years
instead of one or two.

4 - If you connect cells in parallel then try to charge the combination,
you need twice the current and if the cells have different internal
resistance (See 2 above) the current will not divide evenly. The good
cell (with low internal resistance) will get overcharged and flake off a
lot of lead while the week cell (High internal resistance) will not get
enough current to cause any flaking thus the cell continues to deteriorate.
The solution that Exide used to this problem was to use a 24 volt
charger and hook the batteries in series when they were being charged and
in parallel when they were being used. Unfortunately this is not very
practical in an RV but it does suggest an alternative for those that want a
large power source.

For a large power source get two large 6 volt batteries and connect them
in series. There are some very large 6 volt units available and a large
cable to connect them together is available at autoparts stores. As soon
as they are connected, they can be charged and discharged like a single
large 12 volt battery. This follows from the fact that 6 volt batteries are
built from 3 - 2.14 volt cells and connecting them in series is exactly the
same as a 12 volt battery except the connections between cells 3 and 4 is
an external cable instead of an internal bar. Just make sure the charging
system can produce the required current to cause flaking. Larger cells
require larger charging current.

As a second suggestion ask the battery dealer about a battery for a
Mercedes Diesel car. These batteries are extra large in all respects
(Including price :-( ).
-----------------
Ralph writes
Also please see the car and deepcycle battery FAQs that are posted in
rec.outdoors.rv-travel, or read the battery newsgroup <news:sci.
chem.electrochem.battery>, or vist an excellent home page the contains
the Deepcycle FAQ at <http://nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca/camp.html>

3.5.9 Refrigerators
-------------
John Sankey (bf...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes

There are four types of refrigerators (frig in Canada, refer in US) used in
RV's: absorption, compressor, thermoelectric, and ice.

Absorption frigs are powered by heat - they are the only kind that can
run off propane. Most also have a 110VAC heater, some also a 12VDC
heater. New high-end ones automatically switch from propane to 110V to
12V. (However, this turns running out of propane into a double disaster -
the unit then automatically drains your battery to zero as well! And, they
need 12V to run the selection logic.) Advantages: even a small propane
tank can run one for weeks; they are totally silent; they are widely
available. Disadvantages: they are inefficient, so use a lot of 12V power in
that mode; they are expensive to install since they require lots of
ventilation that must be isolated from the living space; they have to be
level to work. With old ones, you literally need a carpenter's level
accuracy of levelling. Newer ones are supposed to be better, but the
manufacturers still insist on "zero degrees" off level for them to work.
With small motorhomes and van conversions, this requires levelling jacks
(not just "stabilizers") in many locations.

Compressor frigs are powered by a mechanical pump - electric only
(12V/110V usually). Old ones (and even new domestic ones) use too much
power for practical 12V use, but the newest ones are much better - a 2
cu.ft. Norcold now requires an average of 2A on 12V even at 90F, so a pair
of golf cart batteries will last 5 days without a charge. Advantages: NO
levelling needed; no outside ventilation needed. Disadvantages: although
very quiet when new, they can get noisier with age; deep-cycle batteries
needed. They are widely used in boats and van conversions. Unit costs
similar to absorption frigs.

Thermoelectric: 12V only. They are capable of very good performance (I
made one once that got cold enough to liquefy air!) but are currently
treated as low-end by manufacturers, who skimp on the heat dumping fins
and don't provide a thermostat. Advantages: no moving parts or fluids
needed (although some have a wildly-cheap fan); very rugged, compact and
light weight; cheap ($100). Disadvantages: even with good design, use
twice the power of a good compressor unit; commercial units cool only
40F below ambient; without a thermostat, they easily freeze things at
night and let meat etc. spoil in the afternoon.

Ice: Advantages: capital cost as low as $10. Disadvantages: block ice lasts
2 days, cube ice one; everything gets wet. For a pop-up used a few times
year though, or for the car trunk, don't overlook it - I used it for myself
and 4 children for years until I could afford a motorhome.
-----
Ralph writes:
I have to disagree with John a little, I believe the Absorption unit
running on propane to be very efficient. When you look at the costs of
propane they are very cheap to run. Under no circumstances should they be
considered as effective as a compressor style however. That is a because
a compressor can cool warm food on a hot day, an absorption cannot.
.

3.5.10 Radial tires on Older rigs
-----------------------------
W F Sill <wi...@epix.net> writes:

This is NOT a "Frequently Asked Question" - but it oughta be:

WHY CAN'T I PUT RADIAL TIRES ON MY OLD MOTORHOME WHEELS?

Your owner's manual for many early-70's GM and Ford chassis (possibly
Dodge but I dunno) will contain a warning: DO NOT USE RADIAL TIRES. So
far, I have never seen one that said WHY, and unfortunately many tire
shops will tell you emphatically they'll work just fine. WRONG, DUMBO!

The problem occurs on 16.5 and 19.5 wheels fitted through about 1976.
(Not sure of the date - some chassis may have been in the pipeline into as
late as '77.) There are two aspects to the problem: First, motor homes are
almost fully loaded (if nor overloaded) ALL THE TIME, so wheels are highly
stressed. (this is the main reason the problem was never common on
wreckers and flatbed trucks using the same wheels) Second, a radial tire
produces a much sharper cyclic pressure against the sides of the rim than
a bias ply tire (that's why radials always look a little "soft" compared to
bias ply tires.) The combined effect of these forces causes the lighter,
old-style wheel rim to flex enough to crack over a period of time.

We learned this the hard way with a '76 GM chassis motorhome. One had a
slow leak when we bought it (used) at around 50k miles, and four more
failed within the next few thousand miles. The original owner had
disregarded the manual and put on Michelin 8 x 19.5 radials at about
30,000 miles, so it took a while for the cracking to show up. Naturally
we were on a trip when the failures began in earnest, and we stopped at
one tire shop after another looking for wheels, welders, etc. We got
a couple fixed by welding (not a good long term fix) and found a couple of
used replacements. This part was a hassle but not dangerous: when the rim
cracked the air escaped and the tire went flat. Whoopee. When we got home
we sold the lot to a farmer for a hay wagon and bought all new wheels.

HERE'S THE BIG DEAL: We ran into SEVERAL abysmally ignorant tire shop
people who actually recommended putting a tube in the tire to "solve" the
problem!! In addition to not knowing the dangers of putting radials on old
style wheels, they failed to realize that putting a tube in the tire would
almost guarantee the crack would grow until the outer half of the rim
blew off - very possible killing someone!!

If you have an older coach with 16.5 or 19.5 wheels, MAKE SURE they are
rated for RADIAL TIRES before changing. Radial rated wheels will be so
marked, either in plain English or with a circled R.

DO NOT ALLOW SOME TIRE SHOP DUDE TO CONVINCE YOU IT AIN'T A
PROBLEM. If the dang thing blows apart in the desert or the worst happens
and it goes on a busy street, he is gonna be long gone and you'll be holdin'
the bag!

*********************************************************
3.5.11 What about Solar Power for my RV
trav...@community.net writes:

We just returned from a week on the north coast of California where four
out of seven days were 100% overcast and foggy. It was our first trip
after installing one 50 watt 3.9amp solar panel. Installation was easy. We
did not try to conserve the battery as a test, and even with all day gray
skies our batteries were 100% charged each evening.

The typical daytime load in fog was lights, this notebook computer, 9in.
color TV, camcorder battery charger, etc. In full sun we also ran one 8in.
and one 10in. dc fans, a dirt devil vacuum once a day with a small dc/ac
invertor, and never ended the day with less than a full charge. Needless to
say, for our purposes solar worked very well on this initial test.

Ralph (drag...@scn.org)
We run the lights (all fluorescent), water pump and a light duty on small
stereo recharging with 7 watt panel. We find it does keep up, but we are
also careful about our power use.
It would only take a quick look at the cost of solar panels to conclude that
they can not compete with generators or comerical power. But in the cases
where neither is available and your batteries can not last, itąs about the
only choice you have.

------------------------------------

Lou Schneider (lo...@crl.com) writes:

RV Solar Electric
14495 N 73rd St.
Scottsdale, AZ 85260 1-800-999-8520

Sells solar panels, invertors, etc. to the RV market. Has a newsletter
and solar planning booklet. Also publishes the book "RVers Guide to
Solar and Invertors".

Backwoods Solar Electric Systems
8530 Rapid Lightning Creek Rd.
Sandpoint, ID 83864 (208) 263-4290

Sells solar electric systems and components for solar/wind/hydro
powered backwood houses (a larger version of an RV based system). Puts
out a nice catalog/planning guide. Prices on panels and components are
about the best around.

Real Goods
966 Mazzoni St.
Ukiah, CA 95428 (707)468-9292

Also sells solar electric supplies to the off the grid housing market.
Publishes the Solar Living Sourcebook, a combination catalog and
information sourcebook, about the size of a telephone book, telling
everything you ever wanted to know about building and running an off the
grid power system. Highly recommended.
-----------------
Ralph Adds:
An additional source is:
<http://www.rt66.com/aaasolar>
*********************************************************

3.5.12 łWhat about Membership campgrounds?˛
Ralph writes:

Thatąs one of the Śhot potatoesą among RV owners. Many people like
theirąs, others dump them very quickly. Hereąs what several people say
about theirs:

someone asked:
> As someone new to this I too have found this interesting but wonder if
> someone could post a brief explanation of how campground memberships
> work, I gather they are somewhat like timeshares(?). Why
> qualification as a home park a good deal?
Alan Hepburn (al...@berlioz.nsc.com) writes:

How do membership campgrounds work? I'll see if I can cover everything...

When you buy a membership in a home park, you are allowed to use that
park (and any other parks owned by that company) as often as you like, for
no other charge, except a yearly maintenance fee. Usually your only
restriction is that once you have spent a contiguous two weeks in the
park, you must be out of the park for at least a week before you can return.

This is to prevent the use of the park as a home. Most parks are also
members of either Camp Coast to Coast (CCC) or Resort Parks
International (RPI), which are reciprocal use conglomerations of
membership parks. For an additional fee, members of home parks may
become members of CCC or RPI, and then have use of all parks in the
system for a fee of $1 (some are $2) per night. In these parks you are
limited to a stay of 1 week at a time, and may only use each park twice
per year.

Memberships are many, and varied. Some companies have several parks,
some only have one park, and some are only a front to get you into CCC or
RPI. Prices vary from around $500 (for fronts or single parks) to several
thousand dollars for multi-park systems such as Thousand Trails. Yearly
maintenance fees range from under a hundred dollars to several hundred
dollars. CCC and RPI dues currently are around $50 (I think) per year. In
my case, we bought a membership in a company called Quality Resorts of
America, which gives us 4 home parks - one near Santa Cruz, one near
Sacramento, one near Eureka, and one near Crescent City, all in California.
We paid $4000 for this membership about 10 years ago, and we pay $13
per month maintenance fees. For that, we are allowed to stay in each of
these parks for up to two weeks at a time, as often as we want all year
long. We also pay for a CCC membership (we pay 5 years at a time, and I
think we paid about $50 per year, but I don't recall exactly). CCC right
now has over 500 parks in its directory, in all 50 states and a few in
Canada and Mexico. We have access to these parks for a week at a time for
$1 (or $2) per night. Three years ago we also bought a membership in
Thousand Trails for $6500, with maintenance fees of $429 per year. This
gives us free access to an additional 60 or so parks in the US and Canada.

As you can see, it's not really free camping (we've paid many thousands of
dollars for our memberships), but the cost per night goes down each time
we use it. If you compare the cost of a KOA or similar private campground
in the area, you'll find that it won't take too long to recover your initial
cost. As an example: our home park near Santa Cruz has some private
campgrounds near it, with similar amenities. The private campgrounds
cost $30 per night. If we were to stay there for 7 nights, it would cost us
$210. For that same $210 we can stay at our campground for about 17
weeks and have about $40 left over. Or that same $210 will cover about
1/2 a year at Thousand Trails, where again we can stay up to 2 weeks at a
time as often as we like.

Ralph writes:
On Home parks:

You're Home Park can be very critical. With most plans you can't stay
in ANY park that is within 150 miles of your home park. So you see you
might want your home park to be a small debt free park, far from where
you live or travel to. That way your home park dues are small and you can
stay almost any where you want. OR, you might want your home park to be
the best place to stay in your area, so you don't have to stay anywhere
else.
Of course both of these assume that you're not in a multiple home park
situation. Then things change again. These tend to be more expensive then
single home park memberships.
Another thing to pay attention to is the debt structure of your home
park, the ideal is debt free, more then one RVer has lost his home park to
more debts then assets.

Ralph
drag...@scn.org

-----------------
Ernest Smith <er...@oregon.cray.com> writes:
On the costs:

Yes we have considered the price. We paid 3000.00 for our Thousand
Trails membership back in 1988. We were paying around 325 a year for
dues. We upgraded our membership to NACO and RPI 2 years ago for
2000. We were paying around 325 a year until the upgrade at which
time it went to around 425 a year. So lets see, so far we have spent
approximately 7200 for the last 6 years. That works out to about 1200
a year for the last 6 years. We spend an average of 50 days in the
campgrounds a year which works out to around $24.00 a night so far.
With our current dues and camping habits we are paying $8.00 a night,
so as the years roll on the $24.00 a night figure will continue to drop.
I see no way that you can lose on this, especially since the Thousand
Trail/NACO Gold Cards can be purchased for around $2-3000 now.

**********************************************************
3.6 What about FULL TIMING?
--------------------------
Jerry Segers <Je...@PeachNet.EDU> writes:

When I got my Full-Timing book from TL (Trailer Life), it came with a book
that summarized all of the various laws that directly affect RVers in
different states. At that time, Arizona (or was it NM?) did not require that
you have a permanent home address (a P.O. Box is OK), had no state income
tax, and offered relatively low restrictions regarding the registration and
inspection of motorhomes.

If you like to travel all the time there is advise here for you. I have
not tried full timing yet so there is no advice here from me personally,
just the collected wisdom of others.
------------------------------------------
"W F (Will) Sill" <wi...@grape.epix.net> writes:

We've been camping/RVing 35+ yrs, met FAR more people talking
about it than doing it. Never actually met a living human doing it more
than a couple of years, despite much wishful thinking on the part of
thousands.
We think very few people are REALLY suited to a long-term nomadic
lifestyle, and a vanishingly small percentage of those are married to
like-minded persons. Despite the glamour of the idea as an extended
vacation from previously humdrum lives, there are many, many
adjustments to make.
Our advice to people who ask us (because we are long-term
travelers) is similar to what we say about buying an RV (rent or borrow
before committing large investments): don't cut your life off from 'home'
before you have at least a full year into bumming around. Don't mean to
toss cold water on a dream, but we hate to see folks pour a lifetime of
work into one leaky basket - ALWAYS have a good backup plan.

--------------------------------------------
Cox,P.E. - MOMS...@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU writes:
In [the] previous post [W F (Will) Sill] said that [he] had never met a
living being who had fulltimed for more that two years. Well, I have met
hundreds. It need not be a lifestyle where you pull up roots and move every
few days or even weeks. Many people spend the winter in warm climates
and the summer in cooler ones. They live in apartment size motorhomes or
trailers. Their choice of lifestyle allows them to keep their HOME with
them where ever they CHOOSE to be.
Obviously you should use common sense if you find yourself in zero
weather or picking a new lifestyle. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to
realize that you can't run a water hose from a spigot and not expect it to
freeze. (But self contained we *could* live comfortably without huge $$$
for gas.) Neither should anyone invest huge amounts of money in an
rvHOME until you find out if that kind of neighborhood suits you. Just as
you wouldn't buy a stationary home without the same kind of thought. But
thousands of people are enjoying the freedom and friendliness of the rv
community.

--------------------------------------------
rtho...@nmsu.edu (Robert E. Thornton) writes:

No state income tax? It isn't NM.

Do you subscribe to Motorhome and Trailer-Life magazines? If not,
you should. They are excellent for the full-timer.
There are many sources for the full-timer services in the Trailer-
Life and Motorhome magazines. Be sure to check out the book Full-Timing
and other books from Trailer-Life including one about choosing a home
base. Excellent advice, if a bit dated. For example, they discuss banking
by mail, pretty much ignoring electronic banking as options. There are
many sources for the fulltimer services in the Trailer-Life and Motorhome
magazines. Do you subscribe to these? If not, you should. They are
excellent.
I recommend you get in touch with Escapees, a club/support group
with very helpful magazine, mail service, a network of parks plus more.
800-976-8377 for info packet.
Workkamper News is a bimonthly listing of fultimer suited jobs plus
helpful hints. Has a two page booklist from which I ordered 15 books
today, with fulltiming in mind.
Books are inexpensive compared to mistakes on the road....
Good Sam is also helpful, as is the RV forum on Compuserve, a well
developed support group.
----------------------------------------------
Ralph addąs
The Escapes Club is an excellent resources for full timing. They have a
home page which is <http://www.channel1.com/users/escapees.>

*****************************************************
3.7 Magazines
Ralph writes:

There are several publications available. Trailer Life and Motor Home
are both products of TL Enterprizes. Many people think that Trailer Lifeąs
Ten Minute Tech section is worth the cost of the Subscription alone.
In addition most the the major clubs (Good Sam, etc) produce magazines
that service their members.
One caution in regards to RV reviews in these magazines. In all the years
I have been reading the majority of these magazines I can recall no bad
reviews. They do point out things they donąt like, but they do not ever
appear to talk about factory or dealer prep defects.

*****************************************************
3.8
One Way rentals
Jerry writes:
-------------
>nh...@pcnhead.dev.esoc.esa.de <Nigel Head> writes: and
CROS...@UK.AC.BRIS.SIVA (John Crossley) replys:
>I'd appreciate some advice on the following:
>
>- one way rentals - is it possible, what should it cost, anyone know of
> places that do it? Probable route is Seattle -> LA (via Rockies).
>

It is possible if you pay extra, and the amount depends upon which
company you rent from, the type of vehicle and the rental location. Cruise
America for instance charge different rates according to which state you
go to. I think that 1-ways into California are the most expensive ($375)
(?). The other way would be cheaper, but then you would be paying
California hire rates (probably more expensive than Seattle). Obviously a
circular route is not ideal, but you do save money.

>- it is rumored that there are problems for "campers" in finding
> places with "hookups" so that one can deal with the, uh, sanitary
> arrangements. How bad is this? Or is it just rumor ?
>

Not really [bad] - most sites have full hookups (electric, fresh water &
sewage), although most charge more if you have all 3. In addition, many
garages allow you fill the fresh water tanks (perhaps for a small fee) and
use a 'dump station' to empty waste tanks (for a few dollars). Usually it is
only very remote, primitive sites that have neither full hookups nor a
dump station.

>- are there any "must-avoid" spots (either 'cos they're overcrowded,
> dangerous(!), unsuitable for large vehicles etc) which an innocent
> tourist might be otherwise tempted to add to the itinerary.
>

I've only driven small RV's (T24 and T19), but I've had no trouble driving
even on rough tracks or up steep hills. Most roads are very wide, and
difficult routes are generally signposted in advance. Cities can be a bit
unnerving if you are not used to the vehicle - I would keep away from the
center of San Francisco for example. The Grand Canyon is the most
crowded attraction you are likely to find but even this has ample space
really. The main RV site a few mile south has had plenty of spaces on the
two occasions I visited (both in July).

>- [Are there] travel agents specializing in this sort of thing ?

In England, most general agents have brochures which include RV
rental,either Cruise America or Go vacations.

################

--
Ralph Lindberg N7BSN Ellen Winnie N7PYK e-mail <drag...@scn.org>
<http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber>
RV and Camping FAQ <http://kendaco.telebyte.net/rlindber/rv/>
They call it Surfn' the Net 'cause it's so easy to wipe out