OT: Why rebuild New Orleans?
Dave
I'm a Canadian, and it seems that every year we hear about bad storms
and hurricanes hitting the Gulf. Along with this new there is always
something about flood warnings in New Orleans.
So I'm asking, why waste the money to rebuild a city that will get
hid again and again and again? Why not use that money to relocate the
people to a "New" New Orleans? Someplace above sea level.
Dave
timber
> to breach their dikes, and MOST coastal regions are dotted with
> high-cost, fragile structures.
I spent ten days in Holland this spring accompanying my father for the 60th
anniversary of their liberation from the Germans. What you say is true,
however they have been in the water control business since the 16th century
and as a result have considerable experience, with but one flooding disaster
in all that time (1953). Of course they aren't in a place where hurricanes,
nor significant seismic events, are common. They are also in the process of
returning some of their reclaimed land back to the sea
Dave
little "spare" land. There are lots of free acres in the US
(Louisiana) to relocate complete cities. I know it will cost many $$,
but it will save lives and money in the long run.
Dave.
Bad Apple
not because it's easy, but rather because it's hard.
I will give this to you though, it seems rather insane that some chose to
stay and ignore the evac warning.
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"Dave" <davidj...@excite.com> wrote in message
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Steve Barker
s
"Dave" <davidj...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125577075....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
tkranz
Some of New Orleans will be rebuilt, but not the slums full of grinding
poverty (the residents of which we are all seeing on the 24 hour news).
These folks will not be able to afford the kind of housing that will be
rebuilt. They will go elsewhere - very hard on them, but resulting in a far
less dense and vulnerable population in the "New" New Orleans that will rise
from the wreckage. Make sense?
"Steve Barker" <railph...@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LiGRe.19297$mb4....@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
graycat
Maybe next time instead of funneling the money that was allocated to
completing the levees around Lake Pontchartrain to Dumbyas Iraq invasion,
they will actually finish those levees. What a concept! Dumbya said that no
one expected the levees to break. It had been predicted by several
government agencies that those levees would not stand up to a level 5
hurricane. Such lack of leadership this country has never seen before. What
an idiot.
Did you all see where the leader of FEMA came on TV tonight and actually
said he had no idea that people were suffering the way they were. After 3
days! Unbelievable! How can that be? Has he been in a cave? Maybe golfing in
Arizona with Dumbya?
miles
> Google "Mississippi River." There's one pretty good reason to rebuild. duh.
> Maybe next time instead of funneling the money that was allocated to
> completing the levees around Lake Pontchartrain to Dumbyas Iraq invasion,
> they will actually finish those levees. What a concept! Dumbya said that no
> one expected the levees to break. It had been predicted by several
> government agencies that those levees would not stand up to a level 5
> hurricane. Such lack of leadership this country has never seen before. What
> an idiot.
> Did you all see where the leader of FEMA came on TV tonight and actually
> said he had no idea that people were suffering the way they were. After 3
> days! Unbelievable! How can that be? Has he been in a cave? Maybe golfing in
> Arizona with Dumbya?
ROFLMAO!!! Some how I just knew there would be a radical lefty that
would blame the hurricane disaster on Bush. Thanks for making my
evening! lol
graycat
"miles" <no...@nopers.com> wrote in message
news:cORRe.7550$ct5.5961@fed1read04...
...and I just knew there would be some dipshit out there that would not know
how to read. I never said that Dumbya was to blame for this disaster. He is
responsible for the woeful response, however. So, you have acted like the
typical idiot Dumbya sycophant in that instead of arguing the points I made
you just resort to name calling. You have not made me laugh. It isn't funny.
PS. Guess what ol' Condi Rice did today, you know, the Secretary of State?
She went shopping and dropped a couple grand on some shoes. I guess it was a
slow day at the office.
Ken Harrison
many US developers insist on building in a flood plain. It has always
seemed to me that people who are intent on redefining Mother Nature's
territory insist on building in flood plains, having no understanding of
the historical trends of that very same source.
It seems to me that a reasonable government response would be something
on the order of, "The people recognize that you would like to live in
this area. They also recognize that there are inherent risks involved
in this decision. The people, therefore, are unwilling to assist in the
process of insuring flood plain dwellers for losses sustained as a
result of their decision to settle in the flood plain. You live there
at your own risk.
Of course, one problem with this approach is that "those people" will
move to a more temperate area (say, Los Angeles) and then expect local
governments to provide the same services they missed in their previous
environs.
Perhaps there is no remedy. But your question raises a substantive
issue. Thanks for asking.
Ken H
Dave
I still think the best solution to this terrible event is to take the
aid and insurance moneys and biuld a new New Orlean. I have heard the
aguments about the historical value of New Orleans and I understnd.
The government needs to "purchase" the COMPLETE New Orleans area and
turn it into a national park. Try to protect the historical building
(at a reasonable cost) and let mother nature do what she has to.
These natural disasters are cyclical. This WILL happen again. Why not
do something NOW to prevent the future deaths? Or do we realy care
about our children/grandchildren?
Dave, a caring Canadian
BTW. Canadians are agonizing over this event as much as anyone. We
feel your pain and we are doing everything humanly and financially
possible. Good luck to everyone involved (victims, relatives, cleanup
and support personnel)
L. C. Clower
FILL DIRT
"Dave" <davidj...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125577075....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
MichaelC
"tkranz" <tkr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:kePRe.806$qY1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> There's kind of a middle ground that will actually probably come to pass.
>
> Some of New Orleans will be rebuilt, but not the slums full of grinding
> poverty (the residents of which we are all seeing on the 24 hour news).
> These folks will not be able to afford the kind of housing that will be
> rebuilt. They will go elsewhere - very hard on them, but resulting in a
far
> less dense and vulnerable population in the "New" New Orleans that will
rise
> from the wreckage. Make sense?
Yea. This is kind of a "market" solution.
There are tens of thousands of people here in Houston right now. Their kids
are going to go to school here for 2-3 months (I expect they are SORELY
understimating refit time for NOLA -- could be a year). If you're a
laborer/hospitality sort of worker, you didn't have flood insurance, you get
yourself a job here........you see it working. For a lot of people, they'll
just put down roots in the new place and stay, which actually assists the
rebuilt task in NOLA, as they won't have to accomdate as many people.
Mike
MichaelC
"graycat" <nos...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:NHSRe.227$6e1...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Only if you have a myopic "buck stops here" way of looking at goverment.
Besides, the *fact* is that if people had done what they were told, there
would have been only 10-20K left in the city, and the response that was
planned would have been adequate. The problem is that 100-150K decided to
ignore the mayor and the mandatory evacuation. Thus, the response that was
planned was inadequate.
Mike
miles
> He is
> responsible for the woeful response, however.
Bush is to blame huh? lol. You're too funny and your hatred of Bush is
a lot of weight for you to carry for many years to come. Thats whats
sad. People need help and your hatred just rants about Bush instead.
Phill Pittman
"L. C. Clower" wrote in message
>
> two words:
>
> FILL DIRT
Galveston 1903... Ring a bell? Do a google search if your not familiar with
the raising of the island.
Raised all the buildings ( that were left after the hurricane), one at a
time. Built break away first floor walls to allow water to flow through with
a minimized resistance.
Went on to develop properly after that. These same building techniques were
used after the floods of the MO. River less than a decade ago.
The only thing keeping building from being built/rebuilt properly is
motivation. I think that at least for the moment there is an abundance.
God's speed to all involved.
--
Phill Pittman
RAM^3
news:N75Se.155$Di4.124@trnddc07...
Actually, the year was 1900.
There are still a few of the buildings there that survived that storm
intact.
Jack Eason
It's even worse than has been stated. The Mississippi River is
starting to follow a channel some distance west of NO. If the river is
left alone, New Orleans will eventually silt up and no longer be a
deep water port. The original reason for its being where it was
founded would no longer exist.
Rudy
> poverty (the residents of which we are all seeing on the 24 hour news).
> These folks will not be able to afford the kind of housing that will be
They are already elsewhere..by the time they might have returned to NOLA,
there will be as you say, nothing there for them.
I wonder if Texas just got 40,000+ more permanent folks for their welfare
rolls
RAM^3
news:07aSe.358978$5V4.297831@pd7tw3no...
No, Wade, they didn't.
They got 40,000+ new workers and taxpayers. FEMA is already busy lining up
jobs for them.
The bulk of the welfareites stayed in The Big Empty where the benefits are
much better.
Dave in Lake Villa
again and again and again? Why not use that money to relocate the people
Reply: That thought had crossed my mind also. Its estimated to run
$100 billion to clean up N.O. and put it back to 'normal' ; Its been a
very tragic happening with the Hurricane...but, im glad that 'Southern
Decadence Days' with the Sodomites got delayed in N.O. .... at least
for a long time to come. For those of you who arent familiar with
Southern Decadence Days...its where the local N.O. officials gladly
welcome Sodomites to practice thier 'craft' in the public streets ;
they even make a joke out of calling it Decadence. God bless America
????
MichaelC
Probably not. but the people in Houston (which some say will be as many as
250,000, when it's done) are looking for jobs (and getting them, because
unemployment is pretty low here, right now).
And, you're right -- if you get a decent job, your kids have been in school
half a year, and you've got nothing back in NOLA because you didn't have
flood insurance......what would be the point?
I think this might be the market's way of taking care of NOLA. If only 60%
of those who left return, you don't have to restore as many schools, etc.,
etc., etc.
Mike
unk
wrote:
>
>...and I just knew there would be some dipshit out there that would not know
>how to read. I never said that Dumbya was to blame for this disaster. He is
>responsible for the woeful response, however. So, you have acted like the
>typical idiot Dumbya sycophant in that instead of arguing the points I made
>you just resort to name calling. You have not made me laugh. It isn't funny.
>PS. Guess what ol' Condi Rice did today, you know, the Secretary of State?
>She went shopping and dropped a couple grand on some shoes. I guess it was a
>slow day at the office.
>
And your ignorance is showing big time.
Mr. Bush told the idiot mayor of NOLA to evacuate last saturday. The
mayor had dozens of busses available and never touched them at all.
Mr. Bush CAN NOT send in the NG. That is the Governor's call. He
never called.
In addition, Mr. Bush, OUR President CAN NOT send in the military. He
is forbidden by the Possse Comitatus Act.
Bush began sending materials and supplies down to NOLA on the 31st.
This is documented in the Washington Post (Hardly a right wing Bush
supporter).
Recall 9/11. The TV was full of Rudy Guliani TAKING CHARGE OF HIS
CITY and being a leader. He asked and Mr. Bush responded.
Here, the Mayor OF NOLA HID while his police ran away or, worse,
joined the looters. Race baiters (dems in general) claim that the
looter had a RIGHT to steal to survive but you can't live very long on
$100,000 in stolen jewelery, or $4000 in VCRs.
Funny, the dems can bus voters in a matter of seconds, even to 4-5
polling places, but they couldn't get the busses running? Perhaps
none of the idiots wanted to GET TO THE BACK OF THE BUS!
Bad Apple
CITY and being a leader."
This I somewhat agree with, however your thinly veiled bigotry is another. I
thought you meet the most friendly folks in RV?
--
QuickSilver - Visit my world
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"unk" <roa...@k7no.com> wrote in message
news:3vakh198cipa3327f...@4ax.com...
unk
wrote:
>"Recall 9/11. The TV was full of Rudy Guliani (spell checker not working?)
>TAKING CHARGE OF HIS
>CITY and being a leader."
>
>This I somewhat agree with, however your thinly veiled bigotry is another. I
>thought you meet the most friendly folks in RV?
Sorry, but MY spell checker didn't find an error. What do you use?
To my knowledge, every statment I posted it true. Care to point
specifically to my thinly veiled bigotry?
Bad Apple
--
QuickSilver - Visit my world
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"unk" <roa...@k7no.com> wrote in message
news:b6okh11qfdbr5eksf...@4ax.com...
Chris Cowles
> <snip>
> And, you're right -- if you get a decent job, your kids have been in
> school
> half a year, and you've got nothing back in NOLA because you didn't have
> flood insurance......what would be the point?
I lived in Houston for a long time. Many residents of Houston and East Texas
are from Louisiana. If they get economically settled, and they didn't leave
anything behind besides family and culture, there's no reason for them to go
back. There's a lot of Lousiana culture to be had in East Texas, and family
is a short drive away.
Let's hope they can get a better life than they have at the moment.
Rudy
>claim that the looter had a RIGHT to steal to survive but you can't live
>very long on
> $100,000 in stolen jewelery, or $4000 in VCRs.
Hey! when they gonna open up them pawnshops!
Flak...@aol.com
Dave in Lake Villa
REPLY: So the Sodomites will have a city ordained place to practice on
N.O. public streets ???
`Wade
"RAM^3" <S31924...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ZBaSe.20398$ih4....@fe02.lga...
Are we ever paranoid, now are we Bob! Over 2 million subscribers on Shaw and
I am the one hiding under your bed, BTW could you resend your complaints,
for some reason or other they got lost, or nobody gives a shit, and that has
to change.
`Wade
NotMe
"Dave in Lake Villa"
| 'This is a harsh statement but ... "Why rebuild New Orleans?"'
|
| REPLY: So the Sodomites will have a city ordained place to practice on
| N.O. public streets ???
While we're busy sorting rocks:
Perhaps so good upstanding individuals like Jimmy Swaggart (spl?) can have a
place to 'hide and watch'.
Ken Harrison
Seems to me he is not blaming the hurricane disaster on Shrub, but
rather the insipid government response to the disaster. It is the
response that shows just how incompetent these people really are.
KH
Ken Harrison
> Besides, the *fact* is that if people had done what they were told,
> there would have been only 10-20K left in the city, and the response
> that was planned would have been adequate. The problem is that
> 100-150K decided to ignore the mayor and the mandatory evacuation.
> Thus, the response that was planned was inadequate.
The actual fact is that the people who remained were, for the most part,
those without any transportation; too poor to afford cars or the gas to
run them, and unable to secure any adequate public transportation
because (except for some city systems) this country does not have a
viable public transportation system for people of little means. The
poor are penalized for staying, then being blamed for not being able to
leave. Joseph Heller would have something to write about that.
KH
graycat
"Ken Harrison" <sptr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:KyRSe.5488$4P5....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I blame little on the man himself, as I think he is truly a man of low
intelligence. It is the machine behind him that scares the shit out of me.
Now that Rehnquist has gone and died, we have a lot in common with those
poor bastards down in N.O. We are all up to our necks in doodoo. For a long
time.
Ken Harrison
> Ding, ding, ding! You win the prize! I blame little on the man
> himself, as I think he is truly a man of low intelligence. It is the
> machine behind him that scares the shit out of me. Now that Rehnquist
> has gone and died, we have a lot in common with those poor bastards
> down in N.O. We are all up to our necks in doodoo. For a long time.
Yes, indeed. There are two approaches that might save our collective
souls: a breakup of the "Union" (a union which is virtually unmanageable
anyway, given the present divisiveness that is a result of the move to
the right...what, after all, does California have in common with [most
of] Texas, or even Ohio, for goodness' sake?), or we can simply admit
the defeat of principles of sanity and move elsewhere. Canada does not
want us because we cannot bring with us a decent health care plan, but
perhaps if we moved to New Zealand or Mexico or Costa Rica, and brought
with us the means to be self-sufficient, we could feel more comfortable
with the people surrounding us.
If people were to read Gibbons "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire."
perhaps they might see the dreadful direction in which we are headed.
But then, probably not.
Yessir, we are in deep shit now.
KH
MichaelC
You have, undoubtedly, seen the picture of the 600+ NOLA school buses which
are now underwater. You should also be aware that the established NOLA
evacuation procedures call for the use of those buses for evac.
It's a legitimate quesiton as to why they weren't used.
Mike
RAM^3
news:gyWSe.792$6e1...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
They couldn't find any drivers?
The drivers evacuated early?
The drivers didn't want to leave town?
The Mayor didn't have any "say" over the school busses? [most likely]
RAM^3
> Yessir, we are in deep shit now.
>
> KH
AH! You finally begin to glimpse a tiny aspect of Reality!
Don't let it bite you in a tender area... <G>
MichaelC
Refer to the second last sentence of my post, then rethink those questions.
Mike
graycat
"Frank Tabor" <fr...@taborsonlinenospam.com> wrote in message
news:ibcph1l876q5u53i8...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:33:14 GMT, "graycat" <nos...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>as I think he is truly a man of low
>>intelligence.
>
> and you're just some asshole posting on Usenet. So now who's the
> smartest.
> --
> Frank Tabor
From one asshole posting on usenet to another, I am.
RAM^3
Bad Apple
the Office and the person holding the Position of The President.
--
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"Frank Tabor" <fr...@taborsonlinenospam.com> wrote in message
news:ibcph1l876q5u53i8...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:33:14 GMT, "graycat" <nos...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>as I think he is truly a man of low
>>intelligence.
>
Hunter
wrote:
>It amazes me the lack of respect that some of my fellow countrymen have for
>the Office and the person holding the Position of The President.
So, you respected Bill Clinton?
Hunter
--
http://members.aol.com/hhamp5246/roadtrip2005.htm
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!"
Bad Apple
I adore him.. The best thing to have happened to this country since Reagan.
--
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"Hunter" <HHam...@aol.com> wrote in message
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MichaelC
NotMe
| It amazes me the lack of respect that some of my fellow countrymen have
for
| the Office and the person holding the Position of The President.
Could it be that the lack of respect is well earned or more accurately well
lost?
Bad Apple
From my point of view as long as that person is voted into power and is in
power he deserves all the respect of that office. Once he gets out and
becomes a regular citizen again then all bets are off as far as "Monday
Morning Quarterbacking" him, but please not while he is in office.
What did Clinton do that was so bad that negates all the positive he did for
the country?
So he diddled an obese intern so what? He lied that he did, so what? (any of
us would have lied too) None of this has anything to do with the office,
it's a reflection of his personal trait. It's strictly a matter between him
and his Wife (who believe is to be partly blamed for his indiscretion
because frankly I don't think she puts out enough for him).
Clinton has visited my country Nigeria and was very welcomed there. That to
me means he can't do anything wrong.
--
QuickSilver - Visit my world
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"NotMe" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2YiTe.15744$aR1....@fe07.lga...
RAM^3
His sex life is immaterial.
According to one news report [aired over radio station KTRH in Houston]
during the hoorah over Paula Jones, one "former White House Staffer" was
quoted as saying that Hillary was the one who'd insisted on "stonewalling"
by saying "I won't have any of MY money spent on one of HIS girlfriends."
If he'd simply paid up then the whole thing would have gone away.
After all, it was neither the first nor the last such incident for him: he'd
had similar ones in England (that caused him to lose his Scholarship) and
Monica was yet to come.
Hillary was busy trying to perform Damage Control over her Whitewater
schemes.
"Bad Apple" <BadApple@World.-Net> wrote in message
news:O3kTe.13943$B34.2543@trnddc09...
karinhall
"Stan Birch" <birc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:431fe48b...@news.netrover.com...
> >On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 Frank Tabor <fr...@taborsonlinenospam.com> wrote:
>>He's a hell of a lot smarter than you, he's the President of the USA . . .
>
> A rather sad commentary upon the the best that the wondrous USA has to
> offer!!
Nah, it's the best that the oil companies, insurance companies, and the banks can put up for president. They control both political parties, and the world. Known as a plutocracy.
Mike Dobony
"Bad Apple" <BadApple@World.-Net> wrote in message
> Because we are Americans, well Nigerian American actually, but we do
things
> not because it's easy, but rather because it's hard.
>
Welcome to America! We jusyt started our sturggle with bringing my
daughter-inb-law frmo Nigeria. Quite a lot of abuse by the US consulate, an
extremely poor reflection upon the US : ( My US citizen son was
threatend by the consulate and they grossly extended the wait for her K3
interview. Detail to follow in upcoming web site, www.freeabigail.com
> I will give this to you though, it seems rather insane that some chose to
> stay and ignore the evac warning.
>
> --
> QuickSilver - Visit my world
> Searching for a cheap PreOwned Class A Diesel Pusher Coach
> http://AustinMini.OsiTech.Net
>
>
> "Dave" <davidj...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:1125577075....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > This is a harsh statement but ... "Why rebuild New Orleans?"
> >
> > I'm a Canadian, and it seems that every year we hear about bad storms
> > and hurricanes hitting the Gulf. Along with this new there is always
> > something about flood warnings in New Orleans.
> >
> > So I'm asking, why waste the money to rebuild a city that will get
> > hid again and again and again? Why not use that money to relocate the
> > people to a "New" New Orleans? Someplace above sea level.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
>
Mike Dobony
"tkranz" <tkr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:kePRe.806$qY1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> There's kind of a middle ground that will actually probably come to pass.
>
> Some of New Orleans will be rebuilt, but not the slums full of grinding
> poverty (the residents of which we are all seeing on the 24 hour news).
> These folks will not be able to afford the kind of housing that will be
far
> less dense and vulnerable population in the "New" New Orleans that will
rise
> from the wreckage. Make sense?
Too much for those who were too stupid to evacuate and adding to the
problems in New Orleans. They had vehicles and money, but decided to stick
it out with a pending category 5 hurricane on a direct path to the city.
Now they are shooting at those who are tryign to help.
>
> "Steve Barker" <railph...@not.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:LiGRe.19297$mb4....@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > That would make way too much sense. That's why.
> >
> > s
Mike Dobony
"graycat" <nos...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:5QQRe.212$6e...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Dave" <davidj...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:1125577075....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > This is a harsh statement but ... "Why rebuild New Orleans?"
> >
> > I'm a Canadian, and it seems that every year we hear about bad storms
> > and hurricanes hitting the Gulf. Along with this new there is always
> > something about flood warnings in New Orleans.
> >
> > So I'm asking, why waste the money to rebuild a city that will get
> > hid again and again and again? Why not use that money to relocate the
> > people to a "New" New Orleans? Someplace above sea level.
> >
> > Dave
> >
duh.
> Maybe next time instead of funneling the money that was allocated to
> completing the levees around Lake Pontchartrain to Dumbyas Iraq invasion,
> they will actually finish those levees. What a concept! Dumbya said that
no
> one expected the levees to break. It had been predicted by several
> government agencies that those levees would not stand up to a level 5
> hurricane. Such lack of leadership this country has never seen before.
What
> an idiot.
> Did you all see where the leader of FEMA came on TV tonight and actually
> said he had no idea that people were suffering the way they were. After 3
> days! Unbelievable! How can that be? Has he been in a cave? Maybe golfing
in
> Arizona with Dumbya?
>
>
Or maybe the governor decided to stay quiet about the needs?
>
SteveB
"Dave" <davidj...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1125577075....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This is a harsh statement but ... "Why rebuild New Orleans?"
>
> I'm a Canadian, and it seems that every year we hear about bad storms
> and hurricanes hitting the Gulf. Along with this new there is always
> something about flood warnings in New Orleans.
>
> So I'm asking, why waste the money to rebuild a city that will get
> hid again and again and again? Why not use that money to relocate the
> people to a "New" New Orleans? Someplace above sea level.
>
> Dave
>
Read history and see why it was built in the first place. It would be
rebuilt for exactly the same reasons, and by exactly the same type of people
willing to take exactly the same risks again.
Steve
Jim Redelfs
"SteveB" <desertNOSP...@cox.net> wrote:
> Read history and see why it was built in the first place. It would be
> rebuilt for exactly the same reasons, and by exactly the same type of people
> willing to take exactly the same risks again.
Yeah, with *OUR* money.
<sigh>
JR
unk
wrote:
>Google "Mississippi River." There's one pretty good reason to rebuild. duh.
>Maybe next time instead of funneling the money that was allocated to
>completing the levees around Lake Pontchartrain to Dumbyas Iraq invasion,
>they will actually finish those levees. What a concept! Dumbya said that no
>one expected the levees to break. It had been predicted by several
>government agencies that those levees would not stand up to a level 5
>hurricane. Such lack of leadership this country has never seen before. What
>an idiot.
>Did you all see where the leader of FEMA came on TV tonight and actually
>said he had no idea that people were suffering the way they were. After 3
>days! Unbelievable! How can that be? Has he been in a cave? Maybe golfing in
>Arizona with Dumbya?
>
>
You can have your own opinions but you cannot have your own facts.
Try to work from the truth for a while.
unk
Jim Redelfs
Hunter <HHam...@aol.com> wrote:
> So, you respected Bill Clinton?
Sure. He was the President. Then, along came Monica...
Ya, know... During Clinton's sworn testimony, if he'd had the NERVE, the
cajones, to look at the camera and say, "You bet I did. I banged her like a
cheap gong!" there would've been a nationwide outcry (mostly frustrated males)
of "YEAH! It must be GREAT to be the President!". (Trans: Great respect.)
Sadly, he chose to perjure himself - an offense that would have landed ANY of
us in jail. His punishment was impeachment, disbarment and disgrace - surely
a worse punishment.
Then there's Hillary. What (little) respect I might have had for the woman
evaporated when it became clear that she had no intention of dumping her
philandering husband.
Quite frankly, they constitute the sleaziest outfit to ride out of the south
since reconstruction.
JR
SteveB
> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 04:48:01 GMT, "graycat" <nos...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Google "Mississippi River." There's one pretty good reason to rebuild.
>>duh.
>>Maybe next time instead of funneling the money that was allocated to
>>completing the levees around Lake Pontchartrain to Dumbyas Iraq invasion,
>>they will actually finish those levees. What a concept! Dumbya said that
>>no
>>one expected the levees to break. It had been predicted by several
>>government agencies that those levees would not stand up to a level 5
>>hurricane. Such lack of leadership this country has never seen before.
>>What
>>an idiot.
>>Did you all see where the leader of FEMA came on TV tonight and actually
>>said he had no idea that people were suffering the way they were. After 3
>>days! Unbelievable! How can that be? Has he been in a cave? Maybe golfing
>>in
>>Arizona with Dumbya?
>>
Were you born stupid, or did you just practice a lot?
Steve
graycat
"SteveB" <desertNOSP...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1uuTe.74198$DW1.16853@fed1read06...
are the fucking idiot on this one. Dumbya was golfing in Arizona on Tuesday,
the second day after the levees broke. You are the fucking idiot for not
seeing the truth. Stop apologizing for this smirking chimp! Stop blaming
everything on Clinton! He is not the president anymore. The Bush
administration totally bungled the response to this disaster, that will be
proven in the near future. Also, the credentials of Mike Brown, the leader
of FEMA are laughable. He was president of some horse association and he was
fired from that job for financial misdeeds. His ol' buddy Dumbya hired him,
and now you see the results.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/2/34622/68348
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/2/122157/2495
It's no wonder that with idiots like you who just buy the whole line of
bullshit, this country is going downhill, fast.
graycat
"Bad Apple" <BadApple@World.-Net> wrote in message
It amazes me that there are so many stupid fucking assholes like you that
actually believe the complete line of bullshit that is being served up to
you.
I would love to move to Scotland. Where I was born. I would like to die
there.
tomswif...@yahoo.com
MichaelC wrote:
>
> You have, undoubtedly, seen the picture of the 600+ NOLA school buses which
> are now underwater. You should also be aware that the established NOLA
> evacuation procedures call for the use of those buses for evac.
> It's a legitimate quesiton as to why they weren't used.
>
> Mike
Maybe they didn't have bus drivers?
An even more legitmate question to ask is why so many Neocon
Bush-Apologists Zombies are claim *now* there are "600+ school buses"
or more when it is clear from the photos they originally refered to,
there were about *200* buses. I'm waiting to see the number go up to
800 or a 1,000 as the week progresses in these Zombies' posts.
-Tom Sr.
MichaelC
<tomswif...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1126091867....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> MichaelC wrote:
> >
> > You have, undoubtedly, seen the picture of the 600+ NOLA school buses
which
> > are now underwater. You should also be aware that the established NOLA
> > evacuation procedures call for the use of those buses for evac.
> > It's a legitimate quesiton as to why they weren't used.
> >
> > Mike
>
>
> Maybe they didn't have bus drivers?
Anyone can drive a school bus. It's relatively simple. But, no matter. If
it's part of your evac plan to use the buses, then shouldn't it be also part
of your plan to have drivers available? If not, the local officials are even
more at fault.
Plus, if you start criticizing the locals for not having a "can-do"
attitude, then you lose the moral authority to criticize FEMA and then Feds
for the same.
>
> An even more legitmate question to ask is why so many Neocon
> Bush-Apologists Zombies are claim *now* there are "600+ school buses"
> or more when it is clear from the photos they originally refered to,
> there were about *200* buses. I'm waiting to see the number go up to
> 800 or a 1,000 as the week progresses in these Zombies' posts.
What you might actually do, although leftist shills dislike facts, is to
check up on them. After all, we have an internet and we know how to use it.
One of the things that you should know, for example, is that large school
districts have more than one transportation center. So, you wouldn't expect
to see all the school buses for Orleans in one picture.
NOLA has 83,000 students.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs99/1999318/table1.asp
Although the NOLA site is down (which would tell us exactly how many buses
they have. We can check the schools districts just larger and just smaller
than they are, see how many buses THEY have, and reasonably assert that NOLA
has around the same number. Those would be Long Beach and Albequerque to
the large side, Fresno and Virginia Beach to the small side.
Fresno is stingy with data, but VB has 77,500 students travelling on 64
passenger buses running four runs per day averaging 75% capacity. A little
math shows that 433 buses would be required. I don't know how many sessions
NOLA runs every day, but 3 is more typical than 4. (elementary, middle,
high -- VB splits elementary). A 3 bus run would require 577 buses to
provide adequate coverage.
Albequerque, OTOH, has 400 buses. I'd assume NOLA, therefore, will be
somewhere in the general vicinity of those two datapoints.
Also at the mayor's disposal were some number of public buses from the RTA.
The exact number is not now known without their site being up, and it is a
regional system, not a city system, so it could very will equal or exceed
the number of school buses.
In conclusion, I'll remind you that the first responder to all crises is the
local government assets. The local government clearly did not act in time to
adequately protect the citizenry. Here's an even more damning factoid from
the timeline:
SATURDAY, AUGUST 27, AFTERNOON:
"Mayor Nagin issued a voluntary evacuation order at 5:00 PM. Nagin said late
Saturday that he's having his legal staff look into whether he can order a
mandatory evacuation of the city, a step he's been hesitant to do because of
potential liability on the part of the city for closing hotels and other
businesses. "Come the first break of light in the morning, you may have the
first mandatory evacuation of New Orleans," Nagin told WWL-TV. "
So, Nagin put legal culpability ahead of lives, by his own statement. How's
THAT rub you, Tom?
Now, once that fact is digested, you can move on to culpability from the
*next* line of response (the state, and Kathleen "I'm from a rich Louisiana
family, and I'll make a decision about that in 24 hours" Blanco), and
ultimately to FEMA.
Those are the fact as they exist, and as such, are beyond dispute, even if
they don't hold with your ideology.
Mike
SteveB
"graycat" <nos...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>
> It's no wonder that with idiots like you who just buy the whole line of
> bullshit, this country is going downhill, fast.
Who cares? I got mine, and plenty enough to last for my lifetime.
I doubt that a natural disaster is a way to help the slide of this country
into history.
Things like the lack of morals, a poor public education system, abortion on
demand, unchecked illegal immigration, liberal Democratic giveaway programs,
overtaxation, and excessive government are more likely to bring us down.
Steve
SteveB
"graycat" <nos...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
> It amazes me that there are so many stupid fucking assholes like you that
> actually believe the complete line of bullshit that is being served up to
> you.
> I would love to move to Scotland. Where I was born. I would like to die
> there.
>
And what's stopping you besides your own lack of ambition and initiative?
Your life in America is obviously a miserable unhappy one.
Steve
Tom
> For the same reason you wouldn't just arbitrarily move Montreal. It
> wouldn't be the same in a different place. Some of the buildings in
> the French Quarter, which sustained very little damage, date back to
> the 1700's. How can you reproduce that somewhere else?
Why bother on that logic? I've been to the so-called "Famous French
Quarter" and it ain't nothin' but one seedy little gin mill after
another.
Tom
AND, most of those "homes" were cheap "shotgun shacks" and you can
bet yer bippy that our tax money ain't agonna rebuild shotgun shacks
to give back! They won't be elegant mansions, but they'll sure as
heck be worth a lot more than they had.
unk
>Maybe they didn't have bus drivers?
>
>An even more legitmate question to ask is why so many Neocon
>Bush-Apologists Zombies are claim *now* there are "600+ school buses"
>or more when it is clear from the photos they originally refered to,
>there were about *200* buses. I'm waiting to see the number go up to
>800 or a 1,000 as the week progresses in these Zombies' posts.
>
> -Tom Sr.
Tom,
Does it matter if they had 200, 2000 or 20,000? The NOLA "LEADERS"
(hah) never started one. But another 'good try' by the Bush haters.
unk
unk
Hey Steve, learn to read. That is NOT my quote. I can get my ass in
a sling easily enough by myself.
Unk
SteveB
"Tom" <twri...@wavecable.com> wrote in message
news:YvSdnZdjn_9...@wavecable.com...
"You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear."
Harry Nillson
SteveB
"unk" <roa...@k7no.com> wrote in
>
> Hey Steve, learn to read. That is NOT my quote. I can get my ass in
> a sling easily enough by myself.
>
> Unk
My apologies. With posting, reposting, and then re re posting, I lost
track.
I do that a lot.
Steve
SteveB
"Will Sill" <wi...@epix.anet> wrote in message
news:e62uh19mu7urbsav4...@4ax.com...
>I see where "SteveB" <desertNOSP...@cox.net> contributed:
>
>>I doubt that a natural disaster is a way to help the slide of this country
>>into history.
>>
>>Things like the lack of morals, a poor public education system, abortion
>>on
>>demand, unchecked illegal immigration, liberal Democratic giveaway
>>programs,
>>overtaxation, and excessive government are more likely to bring us down.
>
> I'd add activist judges, the ACLU, and the popular expectation that
> the GOVERNMENT has an obligation to prevent, manage, and pay for every
> catastrophe, no matter what.
>
> While I am quite sympathetic with the people who've been devastated by
> this storm, they CHOSE to live in the known path of frequent huge
> storms, CHOSE (in NO) to live in a crime-infested soup bowl below sea
> level, CHOSE leadership (sic) with a proven record of politics before
> planning, CHOSE to refuse to git outa Dodge when every news outlet in
> the country was shrieking warnings, and now must experience the
> consequences of their decisions.
>
> Will Sill
> The Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
OR, you can join the ilk that ACTUALLY BELIEVE that this was caused entirely
by Mr. Bush. He created the hurricane using wind generating machines
cleverly disguised as oil platforms. This was all designed to kill blacks,
and to drive up the cost of oil, which Mr. Bush does have some interest in.
Oh, yes, don't forget all the hot air generated by Washington, D.C., and the
back blast from those invisible black gummint helicopters.
It's laughable that people look at all this present festering mess of social
humanity, and cannot understand the concept of the bacteria of social decay
that causes it. Much like people had ignorance of the bacterium that cause
disease.
And more laughable are the stories that stretch the imagination worse than a
400# woman in a pair of Spandex shorts.
Steve
Jim Redelfs
"SteveB" <desertNOSP...@cox.net> wrote:
> 400# woman in a pair of Spandex shorts.
Oh, that's just GREAT! Here I was, enjoying a lively off-topic and you RUINED
it with THAT visual.
Sheesh!
:)
JR
Jim Redelfs
"SteveB" <desertNOSP...@cox.net> wrote:
> "You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear."
>
> Harry Nillson
A good quote from a GREAT (late) musician. (BTW - It's Nilsson)
Anyway, what's your <ahem> *POINT*?
(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
:)
JR
Jim Redelfs
Tom <twri...@wavecable.com> wrote:
> AND, most of those "homes" were cheap "shotgun shacks" and you can
> bet yer bippy that our tax money ain't agonna rebuild shotgun shacks
> to give back! They won't be elegant mansions, but they'll sure as
> heck be worth a lot more than they had.
It will be interesting to see just WHAT they rebuild - and where. The worst
flooded areas were the poorest, "run down" areas of town. Given that the
homes have been virtually submerged for so long, they certainly aren't
salvageable. I would hope they would prohibit rebuilding in the LOWEST areas,
at least.
Dream on... I know...
<sigh>
JR
SteveB
"Jim Redelfs" <jim.r...@redelfs.com> wrote in message
news:jim.redelfs-F45F...@news.central.cox.net...
I wonder just how many people caught that "Arrow".
Steve
Chris Cowles
>
> I wonder just how many people caught that "Arrow".
Perhaps only those who saw the video?
Jim Redelfs
"Chris Cowles" <NoS...@For.me> wrote:
> > I wonder just how many people caught that "Arrow".
> Perhaps only those who saw the video?
Actually, I recall we had (and I heard) the LP well before I saw the video of
"The Point". I suppose it was the soundtrack to the vid. Good stuph!
It surprised me to learn that Harry Nilsson wrote "One" (...is the loneliest
number...) made famous by Three Dog Night.
:)
JR
NotMe
Maybe for those who are only looking for seedy little gin mills.
SteveB
"Chris Cowles" <NoS...@For.me> wrote in message
news:czMTe.18414$FO3....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> SteveB wrote:
>>
>> I wonder just how many people caught that "Arrow".
>
> Perhaps only those who saw the video?
>
I saw it on prime time TV. Don't remember the year, but it had to be in the
early seventies.
Steve
SteveB
"NotMe" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:zlOTe.26628$ih4....@fe02.lga...
Been to Nawlins many times, and to the Vieux Carre as many. I always found
what I was looking for. It just depended on my frame of mind when I went.
Lots of action. Lots of history. Lots of culture. Lots of music. Lots of
booze. Lots of women.
You get the idea.
Steve
NotMe
"SteveB"
| > | >
| > | > For the same reason you wouldn't just arbitrarily move Montreal. It
| > | > wouldn't be the same in a different place. Some of the buildings in
| > | > the French Quarter, which sustained very little damage, date back to
| > | > the 1700's. How can you reproduce that somewhere else?
| > |
| > | Why bother on that logic? I've been to the so-called "Famous French
| > | Quarter" and it ain't nothin' but one seedy little gin mill after
| > | another.
| >
| > Maybe for those who are only looking for seedy little gin mills.
| Been to Nawlins many times, and to the Vieux Carre as many. I always
found
| what I was looking for. It just depended on my frame of mind when I went.
|
| Lots of action. Lots of history. Lots of culture. Lots of music. Lots
of
| booze. Lots of women.
|
| You get the idea.
And how!! my family has lived in NOLA unto my grandfather's grandfather and
likely longer but who's checking?
GeoffP
tragedy.
Sheesh!
Geoff
unk
Why is it that you Bush haters can't (or don't) respond to facts that
blow your lying f'ing comments out of the water. The idiot gov has
admitted and it is reported as FACT on Red Cross and Salvation Army
web sites, that she has refused and continues to disallow Red Cross
and Salvation Army aid. The Democrats are purposely KILLING blacks in
NOLA fror political gain. Can YOU asses deny it with factual
information? NO
Eat shit and die, dems.
unk
On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:59:45 -0700, "SteveB"
<desertNOSP...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>My apologies. With posting, reposting, and then re re posting, I lost
>track.
>
>I do that a lot.
>
>Steve
>
me 2.
<G>
unk
>+++ Heaven forbid that any poor people would get a better life from this
>tragedy.
>Sheesh!
>Geoff
>
They could be housed in Water Heater boxes and have better
acommodations. Of course, they will be provided with much better
housing.
But watch to see what happens to it in 6 months.
Am I racist? NO! I have seen what happens.
Jim Redelfs
"GeoffP" <Ge...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> It will be interesting to see just WHAT they rebuild - and where.
>> The worst flooded areas were the poorest, "run down" areas of town.
>> Given that the homes have been virtually submerged for so long, they
>> certainly aren't salvageable. I would hope they would prohibit
>> rebuilding in the LOWEST areas, at least.
> +++ Heaven forbid that any poor people would get a better life from
> this tragedy. Sheesh!
Where'd THAT come from, Geoff?
While a disaster is an AWFUL way to implement change, if, after all is said
and done, some "get a better life", so much the better.
I wonder, however, if any that actually do experience an improvement would say
it was worth the heartache and other terrible aspects of the disaster.
JR
lanman
>This is a harsh statement but ... "Why rebuild New Orleans?"
>
>I'm a Canadian, and it seems that every year we hear about bad storms
>and hurricanes hitting the Gulf. Along with this new there is always
>something about flood warnings in New Orleans.
>
>So I'm asking, why waste the money to rebuild a city that will get
>hid again and again and again? Why not use that money to relocate the
>people to a "New" New Orleans? Someplace above sea level.
>
>Dave
New Orleans as a shipping port is vitally important to US commerce. It
is the largest shipping port in the US and 5th largest in the world.
It is the *only* deep water port in the US and allows for large ships
to enter for loading and unloading. There are six (I believe)
railroads that go in to/out of NO. It is where it is, at the base of
the Mississippi river, because there is no other place to put it.
Now the tourist industry and those who live in and around NO due to
support jobs attendant to the shipping industry should, imo, be
relocated to higher ground. The port itself will by necessity remain
where it is. Incidentally, the loss of this port is more harmful to
the US economy than the loss of the oil from the Gulf.
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lanman
<sptr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>MichaelC wrote:
>
>> Besides, the *fact* is that if people had done what they were told,
>> there would have been only 10-20K left in the city, and the response
>> that was planned would have been adequate. The problem is that
>> 100-150K decided to ignore the mayor and the mandatory evacuation.
>> Thus, the response that was planned was inadequate.
>
>
>The actual fact is that the people who remained were, for the most part,
That not a fact - that's an opinion. Although some people fit in those
categories, many more stayed to protect homes and businesses and many
more decided to roll the dice hoping it wouldn't hit them this hard.
Here's a fact for you. NO would have fared better than Mississippi had
the levees not breeched after the storm had mostly passed.
>those without any transportation; too poor to afford cars or the gas to
>run them, and unable to secure any adequate public transportation
>because (except for some city systems) this country does not have a
>viable public transportation system for people of little means.
It seems the governor's mandatory evacuation wasn't really mandatory
after all. And there were hundreds of unused school buses, now sitting
in water up to their windows, that were available had the mayor and
governor been serious about the evacuation.
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lanman
>
>MichaelC wrote:
>>
>> You have, undoubtedly, seen the picture of the 600+ NOLA school buses which
>> are now underwater. You should also be aware that the established NOLA
>> evacuation procedures call for the use of those buses for evac.
>> It's a legitimate quesiton as to why they weren't used.
>>
>> Mike
>
>
>Maybe they didn't have bus drivers?
>
>An even more legitmate question to ask is why so many Neocon
>Bush-Apologists Zombies are claim *now* there are "600+ school buses"
>or more when it is clear from the photos they originally refered to,
>there were about *200* buses. I'm waiting to see the number go up to
>800 or a 1,000 as the week progresses in these Zombies' posts.
>
> -Tom Sr.
One bus or a million - what difference does it make. The mayor and
governor did not execute their disaster plan - if they even had one.