Dutchmen=junk
Todd MacLean
1994 Dutchmen 1203. Two weeks ago after a 200 mile drive, we were setting
up in a Michigan State Forest Campground, 9:00 PM, the cable breaks and the
roof comes down. If my kids had their hands in the way, at best there would
have been broken bones. I'd hate to think of the worst. With the canvas in
the way, the roof edges separated. They were beginning to come apart anyway
and the fall made it worse. We couldn't find a motel and ended up driving
home. What a bummer. I called a former Dutchmen dealer and was told the
company was paying for new roofs and cable systems. The crank is chewing up
the cable and the roofs are just plain crap. I called the Company and was
told in no uncertain terms that even though it was only 6 years old, they
would not cover any of the faulty materials. I was not the original owner
(I bought it from my brother). When I asked the company rep. how many
injuries have occurred as a result of collapsing roofs, he hung up. The
local Dutchmen Dealer in Grand Rapids Michigan, Messina RV said they
couldn't look at it until September. The former Dutchmen dealer, General
Trailer, has it in their shop now. They are not sure they can fix the lift
system because the roof is so bad they are afraid to lift it with the hoist.
I wont know until tomorrow how it went.
This is only our second pop-up. Our first was in 1988, a Starcraft
Starflyer. Sure wish we had it back although it was getting a little too
small for our family of five and two dogs. There is no comparison in
quality between the older Starcraft the newer Dutchmen garbage. I just hope
I can get the roof fixed enough to be able to sell it and buy something that
wont ruin a vacation.
Glen & Evelyn
especially when there was potential risk to your family.
When I was looking at pop-ups I got the impression that the lift systems for
Dutchmen, Viking, Palomino, and Forest River were made at the same factory.
In some cases the brochure descriptions were identical or nearly identical.
They may be one of those component bolt on parts. Perhaps it was
different for the older Dutchmen trailers. I've read more than once here
that Dutchmen has serious quality problems in the early 90's but they have
made great strides to improve since then. That doesn't help you very much
now though.
Glen
01 Mesa
98 Explorer
Todd MacLean <tmac...@pathwaynet.com> wrote in message
news:hWqg5.9950$AL3.3...@news-west.usenetserver.com...
RV-tech
"> I've read more than once here
> that Dutchmen has serious quality problems in the early 90's but they have
> made great strides to improve since then. That doesn't help you very
much
> now though.
>
in the early 90's, mid 90's, late 90's and still are this year.
>
Suzanne Phillips
cable problem when we fixed it, but my husband fixed for only a few dollars.
I have a girlfriend who bought a Dutchmen new five years ago and has had NO
problems. She has three sons that are rough and tumble young men and the
camper shows no sign of "abuse" or wear and tear. Possible the ones we keep
hearing about problems with have been seriously used and abused. I searched
for my pop-up for over six months before settling for mine. I have no
regrets and can happily spend the money I saved buying the Dutchmen instead
of a more expensive Coleman on more important things like ice cream and
clothes.
Suzanne
95 Dutchmen
72 Coleman (see, I have the best of both worlds!ôżô)
RV-tech <bil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YIsg5.811$VF3....@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Tired_of Replacing_Roofs
>Well, mine must be the exception to the rule! I love it! Yes, we did have a
>cable problem when we fixed it, but my husband fixed for only a few dollars.
>I have a girlfriend who bought a Dutchmen new five years ago and has had NO
>problems. She has three sons that are rough and tumble young men and the
>camper shows no sign of "abuse" or wear and tear. Possible the ones we keep
>hearing about problems with have been seriously used and abused. I searched
>for my pop-up for over six months before settling for mine. I have no
>regrets and can happily spend the money I saved buying the Dutchmen instead
>of a more expensive Coleman on more important things like ice cream and
>clothes.
>Suzanne
>95 Dutchmen
>72 Coleman (see, I have the best of both worlds!ô¿ô)
>
I had an aunt who drove a Vega for 15 years. She still claims it was
the best car ever made. You searched for six months and still managed
to buy the worst product on the market. Simply amazing. Enjoy your
Vega.
Glen & Evelyn
Exactly why do you have such strong opinions about Dutchman? Did you own
one? Lets have the full story.
phoneman
your "emoticon" !
Vern
Vote Prehensile
Suzanne Phillips wrote in message
>Well, mine must be the exception to the rule! I love it!
>72 Coleman (see, I have the best of both worlds!ôżô)
Brian Wood
Todd MacLean
brother that did nothing but improve it. He is a manager of a State Park
here in Michigan and extremely fastidious and talented at mechanical work.
I bought it from him 3 years ago. He had no way of knowing that the roof
and lift systems were of such poor construction. Did I buy a lemon,
absolutely. Companies that sell lemons should make it right to the
consumer. The auto makers have been force to. Did I buy a product that
could potentially have seriously injured my children, absolutely. If one of
their hands had been in the way when the lift broke, you can only imagine.
The lift failure is only one of the problems, the extremely poor roof
construction is the other. The point is, from what I have subsequently
learned, the Dutchmen Company knows they were selling junk and refuses to do
anything to protect their name or improve their image. They care nothing of
goodwill, regardless what you will find on their web site. I have been
talking to a friend of mine to find out about existing product liability
lawsuits against this Company. He informs me that there is a good
possibility with enough complaints that the State Attorney General might be
interested in looking into a class action lawsuit. Dutchmen refuses to
stand by their product and I refuse to let it go. The company in Grand
Rapids that is fixing my trailer, General RV, has called me twice with
concerns about fixing the lift system. The roof is so bad they are afraid
to lift it with their hoist for fear of having the roof come completely
apart. I have had to give my word that I wouldn't hold them responsible
just so I could get the lift fixed. I can't fix the rotten roof until I can
at least crank the thing up. All this for a 6 year old camper! There is
absolutely no reason other than this Company sells CRAP. That you like
yours means zero to me. I'm happy for you. I want satisfaction from this
company. Period.
"Suzanne Phillips" <suzanne...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:26Eg5.23779$ga2.6...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Well, mine must be the exception to the rule! I love it! Yes, we did have
a
> cable problem when we fixed it, but my husband fixed for only a few
dollars.
> I have a girlfriend who bought a Dutchmen new five years ago and has had
NO
> problems. She has three sons that are rough and tumble young men and the
> camper shows no sign of "abuse" or wear and tear. Possible the ones we
keep
> hearing about problems with have been seriously used and abused. I
searched
> for my pop-up for over six months before settling for mine. I have no
> regrets and can happily spend the money I saved buying the Dutchmen
instead
> of a more expensive Coleman on more important things like ice cream and
> clothes.
> Suzanne
> 95 Dutchmen
> 72 Coleman (see, I have the best of both worlds!ôżô)
>
Suzanne Phillips
Sorry if you feel I was a sucker or something, but I believe that I
personally got a fantastic deal (less than $2000, loaded) on an awesome
camper. It is my opinion that ALL Dutchmens are NOT crap. You may disagree,
but you DO NOT have to insult my intelligence! To all the other Dutchmen
haters, please don't flame me, I really enjoy this newsgroup.
Thanks,
Suzanne
95 WELL-LOVED Dutchmen I tow with my VEGA!
Tired_of Replacing_Roofs <bi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pei6ossheff376tfh...@4ax.com...
Kathleen Barnes
McClain's RV in Dallas is hopelessly inept and refuses to even make it
campable. We have a $6500 brand new not used piece of junk sitting in our
driveway we've never been able to use after five weeks of ownership.
--
Kathleen Barnes
http://home1.gte.net/barnesk/index.htm
EW
<suzanne...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>To all the other Dutchmen
>haters, please don't flame me, I really enjoy this newsgroup.
>Thanks,
>Suzanne
>95 WELL-LOVED Dutchmen I tow with my VEGA!
Dear Suzanne - You have a great sense of humor - I really laughed at
your signature line!
Hey, I'm glad you love your camper - why should anybody want someone
else to be miserable.
Edie
(whose brother used to HATE my '68 Saab)
Butterkup
Tired_of Replacing_Roofs wrote:
> I had an aunt who drove a Vega for 15 years. She still claims it was
> the best car ever made. You searched for six months and still managed
> to buy the worst product on the market. Simply amazing. Enjoy your
> Vega.
That was kinda mean, doncha think???????
tired_of replacing_roofs
I thought the name I used might tell you my experience. I worked for
a large RV dealer as a service tech until a few months ago.
Unfortunately, we sold Dutchmen products and were forced to repair
them. Our salesmen targeted first time buyers for Dutchmen sales
because the price is relatively low and most first time buyers don't
know enought to realize how poor the quality is. These products
arrive from the factory needing dozens of repairs before they can be
sold. Far more than any other brand we carried. The problems come
from poor design, poor manufacturing procedures and NO quality control
not from abuse as suggested by Suzanne. With the exception of
Country Coach, I would say most of the manufacturers have poor quality
control, but Dutchmen is absolutely the worst.
Because this is a pop-up, group I won't get into the horror stories I
could tell you about thier fifth wheel and travel trailers. The roofs
on the pop-ups are the biggest problems. It's funny (sad) to watch a
delivery of new Dutchmen pop-ups from the factory. They are delivered
on modified car carriers just like all the other brand names are.
However, we always know what brand they are because of the replacement
roofs strapped to the new units. I've replaced so meny roofs I really
could do it with my eyes closed. Not to mention the lift system
repairs caused by the excessive weight of water soaked roofs.
If you are unfortunate enough to have bought one of these nightmares,
the best thing to do is buy a cover for it or store it in a garage
especially during the winter. I sincerely hope people listen to
stories like Todd MacLeans and realize his situation isn't the
exception but the rule when it comes to Dutchmen.
tired_of replacing_roofs
<tmac...@pathwaynet.com> wrote:
The company in Grand
>Rapids that is fixing my trailer, General RV, has called me twice with
>concerns about fixing the lift system. The roof is so bad they are afraid
>to lift it with their hoist for fear of having the roof come completely
>apart. I have had to give my word that I wouldn't hold them responsible
>just so I could get the lift fixed. I can't fix the rotten roof until I can
>at least crank the thing up.
>
I hope your able to get satisfaction from Dutchmen, but it will
probably take a law suit. Please take the warnings by General RV very
seriously. You wouldn't believe the difference in weight between a
dry roof and a water soaked roof. There is no way even a new lift
system won't fail under that weight. There is no sense of repairing
the lift system if you don't replace the roof. In your first post,
you mentioned fixing it enough to sell it. I wonder how you would
feel if the roof fell on the child of the new owner. I know I
wouldn't sleep too well. If worse comes to worse, they make great
utility trailers.
tired_of replacing_roofs
Wow, flamed by someone named Butterkup.
The way I said it might have been out of line but what I said was 100%
correct. Manufacturers will continue to produce low quality products
if people keep buying them and encourage others to do the same.
Besides I deleted the part about PT Barnum being right.
Daddyo
door? Weren't you worried about the children of the owners of the new
models? You admitted your company was taking advantage of first time
buyers by selling them a product you 'knew' was unsafe.
D.
----------------------------------------------------------
"tired_of replacing_roofs" <bi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Westcott Family
When was the last time your brother used it and how long had it been sitting if
he had'nt used it? Its really hard to believe that it was fine for him on one
Friday let's say and fell apart on you the next. You say you bought it from him
3 years ago? Where has it been since then. Possibly a dose of reality is in
order. While I sympathize with you sounds to me like there's a lot more here
thats being left out. By the way, I don't know of a company that extends the
warranty to the second owner unless they offer a plan where you pay for it.
Unfortunately, it sounds like you have been shafted, but more by your brother
than Dutchman. I agree with you, I looked at Dutchmans and they were trash but
I also live in an area where another company has the market and the prices are
very competative.
Good luck. Dump it and buy another and learn the lesson I guess.
charlene
Todd MacLean wrote:
> I assure you, Suzanne, my Dutchmen wasn't abused. I bought it from my
> brother that did nothing but improve it. He is a manager of a State Park
> here in Michigan and extremely fastidious and talented at mechanical work.
> I bought it from him 3 years ago. He had no way of knowing that the roof
> and lift systems were of such poor construction. Did I buy a lemon,
> absolutely. Companies that sell lemons should make it right to the
> consumer. The auto makers have been force to. Did I buy a product that
> could potentially have seriously injured my children, absolutely. If one of
> their hands had been in the way when the lift broke, you can only imagine.
> The lift failure is only one of the problems, the extremely poor roof
> construction is the other. The point is, from what I have subsequently
> learned, the Dutchmen Company knows they were selling junk and refuses to do
> anything to protect their name or improve their image. They care nothing of
> goodwill, regardless what you will find on their web site. I have been
> talking to a friend of mine to find out about existing product liability
> lawsuits against this Company. He informs me that there is a good
> possibility with enough complaints that the State Attorney General might be
> interested in looking into a class action lawsuit. Dutchmen refuses to
> stand by their product and I refuse to let it go. The company in Grand
> Rapids that is fixing my trailer, General RV, has called me twice with
> concerns about fixing the lift system. The roof is so bad they are afraid
> to lift it with their hoist for fear of having the roof come completely
> apart. I have had to give my word that I wouldn't hold them responsible
> just so I could get the lift fixed. I can't fix the rotten roof until I can
tired_of replacing_roofs
<fsar...@INVALIDfrognet.net> wrote:
>How did you and your salesman feel each time you saw a new one go out the
>door? Weren't you worried about the children of the owners of the new
>models? You admitted your company was taking advantage of first time
>buyers by selling them a product you 'knew' was unsafe.
>
>D.
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
I felt terrible!!!! Notice I said I used to work there. Thats also
why I've spent the last two years checking newgroups and RV sites and
trying to discourage people from buying poorly constructed units and
encouraging them to look at the better brands. As for the salesmen,
do I really need to answer that.
tired_of replacing_roofs
<suzanne...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Gez, maybe the other post about people being mean wasn't so off target!
>Sorry if you feel I was a sucker or something, but I believe that I
>personally got a fantastic deal (less than $2000, loaded) on an awesome
>camper. It is my opinion that ALL Dutchmens are NOT crap. You may disagree,
>but you DO NOT have to insult my intelligence! To all the other Dutchmen
>haters, please don't flame me, I really enjoy this newsgroup.
>Thanks,
>
You bought one of these and you know a few people who own one. I've
worked on hundreds of these along with hundreds of Colemens, Jaycos,
starcrafts... They ARE crap. But your right, I don't need to insult
your intelligence. Whoever sold it to you already did. Flame me if
you want but if I can stop one person from getting hurt by a falling
roof it's worth it.
Huff
So your main problem with Duthmens is a falling roof? Hmm, my Coleman has done
that. A friends Viking did that. Honestly, I have yet to find any pop up
trailer that is truly well built from top to bottom. Every brand I have been in
has cheap cabinets that fall apart, drawers that are flimsy, hinges that are
weak, side paneling that is only held by a couple screws, etc etc etc. It
doesn't seem to matter what brand. I've owned or have camped in Coleman,
Starcraft, Viking, Jayco and others and they all seem cheaply made.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Coleman popup. But it is cheaply made and so are
the other brands...I've owned several.
cajuncamper
I would be interested in knowing what kind of problems you are having with a
new unit that makes it unusable?
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"8-) Hal - Cajun Camper
00' Towlite 17'
98 GMC Sierra ext cab
5.7L v-8 w/3:42 locking rear
Flowmaster dual exhaust -Towing package
see my pictures:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=956595&a=7000568
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Kathleen Barnes" <bar...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:Z8Mg5.1517$i06.1...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
MRiggs3680
Susie
Wood Eye
cares what brand it is? I think that TORR (alias Bill?) kind of
unloaded on you for no reason.
Calling your camper "crap" is kind of uncalled for. There is a
swell RV group called RV-Travel that TORR would just love. The
formula for that group seems to fit the way he replies to posters
like you. There are some great people on the RV-Travel list, but
there are a few who would out-flame TORR.
I was wondering how long this list could stay friendly.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Glen & Evelyn
less "crap" than others?
DLFrey
roof $1000 plus shipping. To say the least, it makes a nice motorcycle
trailer.
It isn't just Dutchman.
Debi
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
tired_of replacing_roofs
>>
>
>
Every brand I have been in
>has cheap cabinets that fall apart, drawers that are flimsy, hinges that are
>weak, side paneling that is only held by a couple screws, etc etc etc. It
>doesn't seem to matter what brand. I've owned or have camped in Coleman,
>Starcraft, Viking, Jayco and others and they all seem cheaply made.
>
>
Wow. Maybe there is light at the end of this tunnel. With very few
exceptions, all RV's are made cheaply. Dutchmen is simply the worst
of the bunch. Yes, the roof is my biggest problem with Dutchmen
pop-ups. Water swells the roof adding much weight causing the lift
system to fail. Yes, this happens with other brands but not nearly as
often as with Dutchmen. If I still worked at that dealership I would
give you specific numbers, but I would say in six years we replaced at
least twice as meny Dutchmen roofs than all the other brands
combined. This doesn't include the meny roof side panel we replaced
before they started shipping entire roofs. Get the picture.
tired_of replacing_roofs
On a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate Dutchmen and thier sister products
as a 1. All others fall in the 3 to 5 range.
Suzanne Phillips
and will have no regrets.I personally believe that if there is such a
serious safety problem it would (or should) be addressed to the National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration. You can view complaints and concerns
about any vehicle including campers. Any repair person working on such a
serious safety problem should be responsible enough to report it to the
proper agency.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov
That said, let's be adult about this and agree to disagree. Please do not
feel you have to respond by insulting me again.
Suzanne
tired_of replacing_roofs <bi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dle8os0sspr8t7s8a...@4ax.com...
DavidP1952
I hope you thoroughly enjoy your camper and don't let any of the
negative posts in here destroy your enjoyment!
Happy camping!!!
Dave
1999 Starcraft Galaxy
2000 Dodge Durango
Club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mocampingandcanoeing
camping_fool
were from New York and a real jerk!
Bill
On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:01:45 GMT, "Suzanne Phillips"
<suzanne...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Gez, maybe the other post about people being mean wasn't so off target!
>Sorry if you feel I was a sucker or something, but I believe that I
>personally got a fantastic deal (less than $2000, loaded) on an awesome
>camper. It is my opinion that ALL Dutchmens are NOT crap. You may disagree,
>but you DO NOT have to insult my intelligence! To all the other Dutchmen
>haters, please don't flame me, I really enjoy this newsgroup.
>Thanks,
>Suzanne
>95 WELL-LOVED Dutchmen I tow with my VEGA!
>
>Tired_of Replacing_Roofs <bi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:pei6ossheff376tfh...@4ax.com...
>>
>> >
>> I had an aunt who drove a Vega for 15 years. She still claims it was
>> the best car ever made. You searched for six months and still managed
>> to buy the worst product on the market. Simply amazing. Enjoy your
>> Vega.
>>
>
>
A bad day camping is better then a great day
at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
camping_fool
after 19 years aand the rood after 20 years Not bad quality if you ask
me.
Bill
On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 14:53:30 GMT, Huff <mhuf...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>
>So your main problem with Duthmens is a falling roof? Hmm, my Coleman has done
>that. A friends Viking did that. Honestly, I have yet to find any pop up
>trailer that is truly well built from top to bottom. Every brand I have been in
>has cheap cabinets that fall apart, drawers that are flimsy, hinges that are
>weak, side paneling that is only held by a couple screws, etc etc etc. It
>doesn't seem to matter what brand. I've owned or have camped in Coleman,
>Starcraft, Viking, Jayco and others and they all seem cheaply made.
>
>Don't get me wrong, I love my Coleman popup. But it is cheaply made and so are
>the other brands...I've owned several.
>
>> You bought one of these and you know a few people who own one. I've
>> worked on hundreds of these along with hundreds of Colemens, Jaycos,
>> starcrafts... They ARE crap. But your right, I don't need to insult
>> your intelligence. Whoever sold it to you already did. Flame me if
>> you want but if I can stop one person from getting hurt by a falling
>> roof it's worth it.
>
A bad day camping is better then a great day
at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
camping_fool
Hoping you enjoy your pop-up and of course the fun of camping.
Bill
aka camping_fool
On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:24:39 GMT, "Suzanne Phillips"
<suzanne...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I am so over this! I really should just let it rest, but I have no regrets
>and will have no regrets.I personally believe that if there is such a
>serious safety problem it would (or should) be addressed to the National
>Highway Traffic Safety Administration. You can view complaints and concerns
>about any vehicle including campers. Any repair person working on such a
>serious safety problem should be responsible enough to report it to the
>proper agency.
>http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov
>That said, let's be adult about this and agree to disagree. Please do not
>feel you have to respond by insulting me again.
>Suzanne
>
>tired_of replacing_roofs <bi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:dle8os0sspr8t7s8a...@4ax.com...
tired_of replacing_roofs
<suzanne...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I am so over this! I really should just let it rest, but I have no regrets
>and will have no regrets.I personally believe that if there is such a
>serious safety problem it would (or should) be addressed to the National
>Highway Traffic Safety Administration. You can view complaints and concerns
>about any vehicle including campers. Any repair person working on such a
>serious safety problem should be responsible enough to report it to the
>proper agency.
>http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov
>That said, let's be adult about this and agree to disagree. Please do not
>feel you have to respond by insulting me again.
>Suzanne
>
>
The NHTS is only concerned with the systems related to towing trailers
such as the lights, axles and tires. I'm sure they were very
concerned a few years ago when some Dutchmen tires rubbed on the wheel
wells and caused blowouts while traveling. They are not involved with
cable and roof systems problems. So where do we turn? The RV
industry is self regulated by the RVIA. However, membership in this
organization is not mandatory for RV manufacturers. Not a great way
to regulate. This only leaves the option of educating the consumers.
Something I am trying to do. You may not like my methods but I tried
quiet, polite posts and no one paid attention. Must be human nature.
By the way, if what I said about Dutchmen is so wrong, then you
shouldn't have been insulted.
Kathleen Barnes
Suzanne Phillips
that make pop-uping and this newsgroup so wonderful. I have already enjoyed
my pop-up several times. It best the heck out of the old 72 Coleman we
previously had. We had to prop the roof up in "steps" because the lift
system didn't work quite right. I guess they weren't meant to last 30 years.
My husband is still attacked to the old thing. He loved the looks and
comments from other campers.
Thanks Again!
Suzanne
camping_fool <campin...@email.com> wrote in message
news:3984ae5f....@news.cpol.net...
John Zaruba Jr
totaled up the cost of replacing the roof and the floor, it came to just
under half the cost of a new Jayco. The decision was a "no brainer".
But...
When I asked my cousin how often, on the Starcraft, he replaced the caulking
tape under the edges and re-caulked the center seam, he said "never". In
reading my Jayco Owners Manual, to keep the lifetime roof & floor warranty
in force, the roof must be re-caulked ONCE A YEAR.
I have some quality gripes with Jayco as well, where a lot of the components
used are the rock bottom cheapest, when the manufacturer could have spent a
few pennies more for better quality. Some of the hardware pieces are
downright cheesy. Notwithstanding, there are some preventive maintenance
issues that could be better addressed by owners.
Cheers,
John
--
John & Erika Zaruba
Franklinville, NJ
2000 Jayco Eagle 10UD
2000 Plymouth Voyager
http://www.homepage.mac.com/jzaruba
Todd MacLean
completely or B.) making the purchaser completely aware of the problem and
understanding what needed to be done to fix it. You're right, I couldn't
sleep knowing that someone could get hurt from something I sold them.
General RV called me Saturday and gave me the name and number of an RV
repair shop in Grand Rapids that can fix the roof without completely
replacing it. The cost is several hundred versus $1,100 to $1,800 for a
complete new roof. They apparently replace the side boards and refasten
everything for strength. I will probably contact them when the lifter is
fixed.
"tired_of replacing_roofs" <bi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oad7os4qp7h262kun...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:48:09 -0400, "Todd MacLean"
> <tmac...@pathwaynet.com> wrote:
>
>
> The company in Grand
> >Rapids that is fixing my trailer, General RV, has called me twice with
> >concerns about fixing the lift system. The roof is so bad they are
afraid
> >to lift it with their hoist for fear of having the roof come completely
> >apart. I have had to give my word that I wouldn't hold them responsible
> >just so I could get the lift fixed. I can't fix the rotten roof until I
can
> >at least crank the thing up.
> >
> I hope your able to get satisfaction from Dutchmen, but it will
> probably take a law suit. Please take the warnings by General RV very
> seriously. You wouldn't believe the difference in weight between a
> dry roof and a water soaked roof. There is no way even a new lift
> system won't fail under that weight. There is no sense of repairing
> the lift system if you don't replace the roof. In your first post,
> you mentioned fixing it enough to sell it. I wonder how you would
> feel if the roof fell on the child of the new owner. I know I
camping_fool
7-29-00. Why are you bad mouthing a product that is not yours?
Bill
aka camping_fool
Tired_of Replacing_Roofs <bi...@yahoo.com>
A bad day camping is better then a great day
at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rver344
> Looks like you just got here to this group. I saw your first post was
> 7-29-00. Why are you bad mouthing a product that is not yours?
> Bill
>
For God's sake read the thread. Then try posting a message that makes
sense.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
camping_fool
On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 02:15:32 GMT, rver344 <bobg...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
A bad day camping is better then a great day
at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Suzanne Phillips
I love the way my beds feel when I turn in....we have never used anything to boost the bedding with egg crating (and we are not small either), we have never had any leaking in our pop up....A bad day of camping is better than a good day at work ANYTIME!!!
Suzanne Phillips
IslandGirl <islandg...@home.com> wrote in message news:39850536...@home.com...I am having problems with my news reader for whatever reason this weekend....here is how I MEANT it to look (little computer gremlins are AT it yet AGAIN!! LOL!!) I was addressing Suzanne and not Sieve!(sorry Suzanne:)IslandGirl wrote:
Suzanne,
I love my DUTCHMAN too!! We are totally happy with it, and as far as I can see, there are problems with most all brand of units on here.....I have read many roof sag problems with Coleman. I have also read many threads this past year of ppl that were upset over the fact they had paid all this money (correct me if I am wrong here, but I think the Coleman company went as far as to put a Geo Tracker on the roof of the Coleman pop up for the brochures to boost the confidence that the customer should have in an ABS roof) just to have their roof replaced because of it sagging. What good is it to the person who buys that unit used and has NO warranty when the roof begins to sag again? We just keep an eye on our roof and seal it when the caulk looks like it could be drying out. As for the cables, my husband pays close attention to that anyway. We bought what our budget would allow us.....when a dealer quoted us 2500$ for a 84 Coleman that looked like it had been through a WAR, I just knew he couldn't be serious....but he was!:( There is not a lot of selection in our state and if we are going to pay 10000 smackers for something...well trust me, we will add a little more money and buy something else other than a tent on wheels!(and before the flame wars start again, what is meant by that comment is the prices in our area for a pop up are insane...it's not a knock at pop ups at all, cause God KNOWS we love camping in our pop up:)!!!) We were not too thrilled with the used Camplite that we looked at (even though I loved the layout!)....can't remember the year(think it was a 94 or 95 though), but they used 1/8 wood for under the cushions and then called it the dinette! I have 2 boys that are 6'0" and weigh 200lbs.....wonder how long it would have been until they were sitting in the storage bin? I love the way my beds feel when I turn in....we have never used anything to boost the bedding with egg crating (and we are not small either), we have never had any leaking in our pop up....and the last trip we got to take was a weekend of torrential downpours! It stayed toasty oasty this past November when we took it to Lancaster for a trip with the little heaters! They all have their pros and cons. When someone says he would give them a 1 rating and then only give other brands between a 3 to a 5, it sounds like there should be concern with ALL makes and that there is a SERIOUS need for major improvement with ALL brands to me! Care is a big part of ownership......my in laws have a 74 Pace Arrow motorhome....they didn't take care of it and guess what....it is now parked in a field not being used!! Leaks like a sieve and runs like crap.....has a whole 30000 miles on the engine! We are pleased with OUR Dutchmen too Suzanne....you are not the only one! It is so much better than sleeping in our old tent!THE IslandGirl...Sharon
94 Chevy Astro
94 Dutchmen 1002 XS
popuptrailer
publicly insulted in this NG. However, you have taken the nasty
words with a lot of class & dignity, which is more than I can
say for the unkind person who originally insulted you.
Its always good when someone warns the group of a problem so the
rest of us can 'beware'... but to openly insult one individual
is unkind and cruel IMHO. Sorry you were subject to that
behavior.
I hope you stick around here, as 'most' of us are nice, caring
people, and we do look out for each other. There's a wealth of
info to be found here, and I for one, am grateful to be a part
of this.
Good luck with your camper, and I'm sure you'll have many happy
camping experiences with it.
-Gale L.
Wauconda, IL
95 Coleman Chesapeake
97 Chevy Blazer
P.S. If it makes you feel any better... the Chevy Blazer has a
less than desirable reliability rating according to most. This
is my 2nd Blazer, and I absolutely love it! I'd own another
(3rd) in a heartbeat.
mrw...@my-deja.com
we were looking for a camper about a year and a half ago I read some
posts from Dutchman owners who were not happy with their campers'
quality. We went to look at them anyway. To me they felt flimsy when
we stepped inside. Upon exiting I brushed my finger on a sharp
unfinished piece of aluminum next to the door. I was bleeding all the
way out of the showroom with the salescritter chasing behind trying to
sell me something.
I took it as an omen, we have no regrets of having bought a Coleman
instead.
I am sure there are people who have bought Dutchman campers and have
had good luck with, and enjoyed them. I knew right away though that it
wasn't the camper for us.
Don Crandall
99 Coleman Santa Fe
In article <hWqg5.9950$AL3.3...@news-west.usenetserver.com>,
BethK
Tired_of Replacing_Roofs <bi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I had an aunt who drove a Vega for 15 years.
No way! I had a Vega ('72 or '74, can't remember) and it lasted about 3
years. The engine blew at 70,000 miles. At that time I had the
windshield held in place with duct tape and I could put my fist thru the
rust holes in the doors.
--
Beth
'99 Coleman Sea Pine
Al_Fi...@amway.com
Sorry to read about your troubles. I'm glad your children were not
hurt.
Just one note, I have had good service with American RV on 76th Street
(just around the corner from the Jayco Dealer.)
Al
Gerry Pierce
>On a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate Dutchmen and thier sister
products
>as a 1. All others fall in the 3 to 5 range.
I'm sure that if your ratings meant crap, you'd be employed by
Consumer Reports or Trailer Life. How about give her a "congrats
on the new camper, here are a couple of things to look for"
instead of implying that she is stupid for actually chosing
Dutchmen. There are days I regret buying a Coleman, but other
than the roof, I've had no further problems after all the
delivery problems were taken care of.
Brad Blackburn
(which was falling apart).
I opened one of the cabinets and a caulk monster was lurking in the corner.
Really, all brands are built pretty crappy, some a bit crappier than
others.
--
Brad Blackburn
Wood Eye
I'm glad you said this. I think a lot of us feel the same way. I
remember the feeling I had when I first bought my pop-up. Wow,
talk about a good feeling. I'm glad I didn't run into a guy
telling me what a piece of crap it is. Instead, I found a lot of
support for my decision----no, it isn't a Dutchman.
While I don't want to make this thread go on forever, I do feel
it is important to realize what attracts many of us to this
discussion list. It's the friendliness and thoughtful help of the
members. I sure hope that doesn't go south on us because of a few
flamers.
Good luck, Suzanne. May you have lots of fun with your camper...
Woody
DavidP1952
Enjoy your camper and this newsgroup. Most people in here are
very helpful!
Dave
1999 Starcraft Galaxy
2000 Dodge Durango
Club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mocampingandcanoeing
-----------------------------------------------------------
NewsCamp
of that (I'll spare you all my list of problems and the apathetic response
to them by Rick's RV in Joliet, IL). My last popup was a '95 Starcraft
(owned by the same entity as Jayco) and it broke a leaf spring (very
inconvenient) and bent the axle. As far as Dutchmen goes...I would
personally avoid buying one because of the reputation. However I did look
at a couple used Dutchmen travel trailers from the mid to late 90's before
settling on my Jayco popup and I could not find anything wrong with them. I
really looked for problems (knowing their reputation) and everything seemed
okay. Jayco has a great reputation but can make some really bad units (as
in my case) and not care too much that they did that (as in my case) just
like Dutchmen has a lousy reputation and on a good day can probably make
some great units (as in the case of a few of the folks out here on the
newsgroup). I don't think it's useful to directly question someone's choice
in an RV. On the other hand, whether you were once a service tech or once
an owner of a particular brand, you should speak your mind. That's the only
way folks considering a purchase can weigh the reputation of a particular
brand. In my case...I want to poke some holes into Jayco's reputation for
the problems that I've had. But it's interesting to hear both the good and
bad about Dutchmen. In the final analysis, all anyone wants is the truth
and I say if you think the Dutchmen is crap, tell it. And if you think it's
the greatest thing since sliced bread, tell it. That's America.
NewsCamp
1999 Jayco Eagle 12 ST
1998 Mazda B4000
rver344
I hate to go against the grain but just purchased a used pop-up camper
and must tell you what happened. I found a 1996 Dutchmen that looked to
me to be in good shape. It belonged to a private party and they agreed
to let me take it to be checked out. I have a friend whose father has
worked on RV's for 26 years. I brought it to his house and he looked it
over. He showed me where the roof was swollen from water. I asked if
this was a common problem with pop-ups. He told me it happens very
frequently in older units but far more often with late model units
of this brand than any other. He also told me about a serious axle
problem and cable problem Dutchmen are know to have. Please don't flame
me but he used the word "crap". Sorry, not my words.
As a master auto mechanic I know the best person to ask about a product
is the person who repairs it. I wish people would ask me what brand of
car to buy. I know all the common problems and which models it's best to
avoid. I think if people ask at all they tend to ask someone who own a
certain make. This is helpful but unfortunately they only have
experience with thier own car where I have experience with hundreds of
that same model. If 75% of that model has the same problem, I will
definately know about it. But an individual owner might not because
they may be one of the lucky 25% that doesn't have the problem.
After having my friends dad look a four campers, I bought a 1997 Jayco
in mint condition.
I was wondering why there aren't more professional RV mechanics
answering posts in this group. All the other newgroups I read are
filled with people who work in that field. Much better to ask a plumber
about my boiler problem than a do-it-yourselfer.
From the PNW
>In article <pei6ossheff376tfh...@4ax.com>,
> Tired_of Replacing_Roofs <bi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I had an aunt who drove a Vega for 15 years.
>
>No way! I had a Vega ('72 or '74, can't remember) and it lasted about 3
>years. The engine blew at 70,000 miles. At that time I had the
>windshield held in place with duct tape and I could put my fist thru the
>rust holes in the doors.
>
chrome falls off during the third year. Thanks to salt being cheap, I
heard you can always tell a car from Michigan, just not what make it is.
Gail
mrw...@my-deja.com
that I felt it was better built. Apart from roof problems (my camper
does have the sag, the dealer has ordered me a roof and is going to
call me when it is in so he can install it), they seemed to have the
best record. That is why we selected that type.
For the record I am not overly wowed by the quality I have seen in most
conventional TT's. Most of them look like crap after 3 or four years.
Comparitively I feel that pop ups hold their value much better. Anyone
who spends 150000.00 plus on a motorhome should have their head
examined. One should be buying real estate next to the lake for that
money.
We love camping, we love to have a nice meal and conversation by the
campfire. I love the way coffee smells perking in the cool morning
air, and I like to go to sleep hearing the rain patter on the canvas
roof of the bunk end. If I wanted convienience I would stay in a B&B
or nice hotel and be waited on.
Hope you have the problems you have had with your Jayco sorted out so
that you can enjoy using it.
Happy Camping
Don Crandall
99 Coleman Santa Fe
In article <jPoh5.67578$o45.4...@news.corecomm.net>,
SavReb
matter what brand of pop-up you get so long as you feel that it's the one
that's right for you. Don't let anyone rain on your parade. Take your camper
out and go camping. Enjoy your camper. But if your have any concern for it's
safty, just for your peace of mind, take it to your RV dealer of choice and
have them do a thorough check up on it.
Chuck & Suzanne
'95 Coleman Rio Grande
Savannah, GA
Neither give cherries to pigs nor advice to a fool.
The Scott Family
the Japanese were to manufacture camping trailers...the other guys would be
in big trouble! I traded in my Honda for an American made van, and I hate
it....squeeks, rattles, gadgets breaking all over the place....my husband
still drives my old Honda...162,000 miles and still drives like it's brand
new. Also, I used to live in Japan, and they are really innovative when it
comes to living in small quarters...it would be interesting to see some of
the ideas they would come up with as far as storage and other things in a
travel trailer.
Sarah
97 Coleman Niagara
Henry J Sniadoch
The Scott Family <thesc...@home.com> wrote in message
news:yx%h5.56152$6y5.38...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
cajuncamper
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"8-) Hal - Cajun Camper
00' Towlite 17'
98 GMC Sierra ext cab
5.7L v-8 w/3:42 locking rear
Flowmaster dual exhaust -Towing package
see my pictures:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=956595&a=7000568
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Greg, Kelly, and Andy
Kate H.
Just read the Dutchmen thread. I thought they looked like nice campers. Sorry
that guy was so rude to you. Ignore it & enjoy your lovely camper!
~~~Kate
1998 GMC Safari
1999 Coleman Cheyenne
1989 Daughter 1991 Son 1994 Son 1998 Daughter
1993 Dog
"My Child is an Honor Student at Domestica Schola" [this is a joke!]
"These ARE the good old days!"
mrw...@my-deja.com
blew three days after I drove it off the lot. The dealer fixed it
though and it ran well for me. Currently I have a Mercury Grand
Marquis and a Ford Explorer. I have to tell you the domestics have
come a long way. The competition forced them to improve. There is one
thing though, cars aren't built in one place anymore. This part is
from here that's from there. It is more like fancy coffee beans from
Colombia, vanilla from the Phillipines, packaging from China, processed
in the USA, it is an international product.
I bet the Japanese would build a nice camper, but can you imagine the
price tag on it! Also, when the proverbial "roof" goes bad how many
months would you have to wait for a new one.
Pros and cons to everything.
Don Crandall
99 Coleman Santa Fe
In article <yx%h5.56152$6y5.38...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>,
"The Scott Family" <thesc...@home.com> wrote:
> Okay, no offense to any of the American product lovers out
there...but if
> the Japanese were to manufacture camping trailers...the other guys
would be
> in big trouble! I traded in my Honda for an American made van, and I
hate
> it....squeeks, rattles, gadgets breaking all over the place....my
husband
> still drives my old Honda...162,000 miles and still drives like it's
brand
> new. Also, I used to live in Japan, and they are really innovative
when it
> comes to living in small quarters...it would be interesting to see
some of
> the ideas they would come up with as far as storage and other things
in a
> travel trailer.
>
> Sarah
> 97 Coleman Niagara
>
>
Wizard4440
a new roof! I'd pay a little extra for that peace of mind.
--
~Jim~
"Never underestimate the power
of stupid people in large groups"
<mrw...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8mf7c9$9dd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
DThinderchicken
Airstream? If so you have to wonder about the upper management
there.
Dave
'89 Coleman Shenandoah
'96 GMC van / '85 beater Blazer
House Springs Mo.
Mark J Strawcutter
Then you must have difficulty with comprehension.
>A bad day camping is better then a great day
>at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and with grammar - "...better than a great day..."
Mark J Strawcutter
Indiana PA
'97 Coleman Key West
Mark J Strawcutter
>reading my Jayco Owners Manual, to keep the lifetime roof & floor warranty
>in force, the roof must be re-caulked ONCE A YEAR.
Sounds like a non-warranty. Unless they provide the re-calk free of
charge.
Kinda like consumer reports reliability stats. Dodge Spirit timing belt breaks
at 60k miles. Owner pays $600 to repair, reports to CU and it gets counted as
engine mechanical problem.
Nissan owner pays $600 to replace timing belt at 50k miles but this doesn't
get counted because it's "scheduled maintenance".
camping_fool
Mark you sure are an ass!!!!!!! I didn't stutter either.
Bill
aka camping_fool
I also hope your next roof developes sag!!!!!!
On Tue, 08 Aug 2000 02:20:23 GMT, mjs...@grove.iup.edu (Mark J
Strawcutter) wrote:
>>whats your problem. I did read
>
>Then you must have difficulty with comprehension.
>
>>A bad day camping is better then a great day
>>at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>and with grammar - "...better than a great day..."
>
>Mark J Strawcutter
>Indiana PA
>'97 Coleman Key West
I am here to piss off the pathetic little men!!!!!!
Mark J Strawcutter
>remember the feeling I had when I first bought my pop-up. Wow,
>talk about a good feeling.
Coleman and my dealer combined to make our purchase and subsequent ownership
experience one of the most depressing I've ever had - right from the start
and continuing thru this day.
> I'm glad I didn't run into a guy
>telling me what a piece of crap it is.
I wish I had. Then I might have been more assertive about getting stuff
fixed.
I'd rather have folks being honest about both good and bad experiences.
Alcoholics are real good about "supporting" each other by helping each
other rationalize their destructive behavior. Let's not slip into a similar
trap.
Bill and Robin Moore
> That's just the point though! If it was Japanese engineered it wouldn't NEED
> a new roof! I'd pay a little extra for that peace of mind.
Just like all the people who bought Toyota 4Runners, thinking it wouldn't
NEED a new head gasket at 25K miles. Even the Japanese have had
their fair share of engineering mishaps...
Regards,
Bill Moore
98 Coleman Santa Fe
Kathleen Barnes
They agreed to fix it - if we would drive 2000 miles round trip to come get
it. I don't think that should be a requirement to get the stupid thing fixed
under warranty, do you? We're talking 5 days round trip! And not even a
vacation. It would cost more to do that than fix it ourselves. Geesh. Texas
Lemon Law, we're applying today.
See our page of problems with Thor at
http://sunnnshin.tripod.com/trailer.html
Ken
unit I would go for the REFUND option. What will they be like a year
from now when the warranties are done? Ken
--
Visit My Camping Web Site
http://home.rochester.rr.com./sar/camping.htm
tat-2
sorry to jump in so late in the thread but after looking at your pictures
(on your site) I just had to ask.
Ed G.
"Kathleen Barnes" <bar...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:xYcm5.111$FC5....@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
Kathleen Barnes
--
Kathleen Barnes
http://home1.gte.net/barnesk/index.htm
"tat-2" <ta...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:8ncde2$arm$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Timmins
from the sound of things you have a problem with the Dealer in question.
Just doesn't sound like a place I'd care to do business.
--
Bill, N3DDY
'97 F150
'97 Skamper 17a (that has been Trouble free, so far)
"Kathleen Barnes" <bar...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:bknm5.1435$FC5.2...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
Jgor24
trouble with it what so ever. We are very pleased with it. Sorry to hear you
are having such a bad time with yours. By the way our dealer is Berks Mont
Camping Center located in Gilbertsville Pa. Henry is the owner and a great
person to work with.
Robert Swan
97 Safari
98 Skamper
59 wife (may trade for 2 twenty year olds)