Tow Vechille Questions re: Astro/Safari
gshe...@my-deja.com
us anyway) this spring. We currently camp with a 10' Jayco popup and
have already realized that our family will out grow this in the next
year or so. We have our eyes on those hybrids (Starcraft and Bantams)
and want to make sure that our new vechile can accomodate those
trailers.
Does anyone out there have any experience with the Chevy Astro or GMC
Safari? I like the mid-size van idea and the towing capacity it
appears to provide. Are these reliables vechiles? Gas mileage?
Towing capacity enough for a 23' hybrid (~4500-4700 fully loaded)? Is
the Tow/Haul mode added in the 2000 model year a valuable addition?
Alternatives to the Astro/Safari? Why?
Thanks!
Greg Shelton
Nashville, TN
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
jima...@my-deja.com
I'm in the same position as you are..pulling a pop up and
looking at the kiwi...I drive a 2000 gmc safari awd( with the tow mode)
the rear end gear ratio is the 3.73 so my pulling power is rated up to
5800Lbs...definitley add the tranny cooler as an aftermarket and don't
go below the 3.73 gear ratio...the lower ones will not pull the weight
you need...check the gmc safari website for the options and weights...i
have no problem pulling the bayside(3500 empty) from ct to fla. with
the tow mode...cuts mileage from 18 to 15 though.
good luck
jim
connecticut
In article <942vu0$sl9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
KNK4
We loved our Astro Van. I was pulling a 98 Sunridge 12' box. At times it was
difficult to pull up steep inclines. I also had to have a sway bar. I
recently traded the Astro in on a new Chevy Express Van. Now I can barely tell
I am pulling a trailer. I could probably do without the sway bar. I feel much
more comfortable with the power of the V-8 engine.
If you get an Astro or Safari, make sure you get a heavy duty class III hitch.
Don't be stupid like me and use a Class II. On my trip to Florida last year it
pulled the bolts right through the sheet metal of the van. The class II did
not attach to any part of the frame on my extended Astro. There isn't any
frame on the extension. One bolt of a Class III would have attached to the
frame. I found out too late.
Good Luck
Austin Boston
We have used our Astro for one season and have had no towing-related
problems.
The engine was burning oil "out of the box" and needed to be replaced,
but we believe this was a fluke, as it is the same Vortec engine as the
S10 pickup and has an excellent reputation. This problem was detected
before the break-in period was over and before it had been used to tow
anything.
We have since towed our Bayside (abt 3500 lbs loaded) for 1200 miles,
including long, straight stretches of up to 6 hours, and in moderate
hills (up to 2500 ft, don't remember the grade) and have had no
problems with it. We do use a sway stabilizer, and should probably
use a WD hitch (we'll be adding one this spring).
My understanding of the Tow/Haul mode is that it changes the shift
points so that the engine is revving higher when it upshifts, providing
better acceleration under towing load. We always use it when the
trailer is attached.
Another poster said to get an aftermarket transmission cooler. I
believe a heavy duty tranny cooler is standard equipment with 2000 and
later models (those equipped with the tow/haul mode).
Keep the tire pressure up. It controls better and is less suseptible
(sp?) to sway that way. For some reason, the dealer that services our
van was letting 5-10 lbs of air out of the tires every time he had it.
When I asked him why, he said they ride better that way. It's a truck
with a minivan body. Expect it to ride like a truck.
Austin
--
'00 Astro '00 Bayside
Snarling dogs can reduce or prevent squirrel problems.
Mark Filice
> My wife and I are considering the purchase of a new tow vechile (new
to
> us anyway) this spring. We currently camp with a 10' Jayco popup and
> have already realized that our family will out grow this in the next
> year or so. We have our eyes on those hybrids (Starcraft and
Bantams)
> and want to make sure that our new vechile can accomodate those
> trailers.
>
> Does anyone out there have any experience with the Chevy Astro or GMC
> Safari? I like the mid-size van idea and the towing capacity it
> appears to provide. Are these reliables vechiles? Gas mileage?
> Towing capacity enough for a 23' hybrid (~4500-4700 fully loaded)? Is
> the Tow/Haul mode added in the 2000 model year a valuable addition?
>
Greg:
Towing capacity is all about mathematics. The Gross Combined Vehicle
Weight Rating (GCVWR) of your tow vehicle is the maximum that your
vehicle can weigh, tow, carry, etc.. The other number you need for the
tow vehicle is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). That is the most
that your vehicle can weigh fully loaded (passengers/gear).
You also need to know the GVWR of the trailer you are planning on
buying. Take the GVWR of the vehicle and add it to the GVWR of the
trailer. If the sum of these numbers exceeds the GCVWR of the tow
vehicle, you need to get a bigger tow vehicle or smaller trailer.
> Alternatives to the Astro/Safari? Why?
>
>
A 3/4 ton full size van (Chevy, GMC, Ford, Dodge, etc.) will most
likely do the job of towing a 4,500-4,700 lb. trailer. But you will
have to do the GCVWR/GVWR calculation to be sure.
Good Luck
--
Mark Filice
1999 Starcraft Starflyer
1990 Ford Ranger
Jim and Linda King
>have no problem pulling the bayside(3500 empty) from ct to fla. with
>the tow mode...cuts mileage from 18 to 15 though.
>good luck
>jim
>connecticut
Jim-we have a 99 Bayside, and its GVWR is 3250. If you have a Coleman Bayside,
I don't see how it could be 3500 lbs. empty.
Linda (I'd rather be camping)
Fleetville, PA
'93 Chevy Suburban
'99 Coleman Bayside
jima...@my-deja.com
empty meaning we do not store anything of weight in the camper,
but i did estimate load in van (cargo/humans) for toal weight load on
the van...i said nothing about gvw...sorry late night typing, I knew
what I meant just didn't take the time to explain it.Some people forget
that what is packed in,on, and sitting in the van adds to the overall
strain on the tranny and vehicle.
regards
jim
In article <20010117193019...@ng-fg1.news.cs.com>,
Bill
--
Bill
99 Coleman Niagara
wayn...@my-deja.com
jima...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi Gregg,
> I'm in the same position as you are..pulling a pop up and
> looking at the kiwi...I drive a 2000 gmc safari awd( with the tow
mode)
> the rear end gear ratio is the 3.73 so my pulling power is rated up to
> 5800Lbs...definitley add the tranny cooler as an aftermarket and don't
> go below the 3.73 gear ratio...the lower ones will not pull the weight
> you need...check the gmc safari website for the options and
weights...i
> have no problem pulling the bayside(3500 empty) from ct to fla. with
> the tow mode...cuts mileage from 18 to 15 though.
>
> good luck
Jim:
We have a 2000 Astro with the same setup as yours. When you have the
tow mode turned on are you overdrive or 3rd? Just wondering
Thanks
Wayne
00 Astro
Jim Esler
>
> Difference could also be options. They add up fast.
This was in response to:
>.i
>have no problem pulling the bayside(3500 empty) from ct to fla. with
>the tow mode...cuts mileage from 18 to 15 though.
>good luck
>jim
>connecticut
Jim-we have a 99 Bayside, and its GVWR is 3250. If you have a Coleman
Bayside,
I don't see how it could be 3500 lbs. empty.
I am not aware of any option to increase the GVWR. In order to do this
you would have to reinforce the frame, possibly replace the axle, and
probably replace the tires. You were probably thinking about the
trailer's dry weight, but the distinction here is very important.
--
Jim Esler
P.S. Standard Disclaimer: I work for them, but I don't speak for them.
kevt...@my-deja.com
Where can one get the GCVWR for cars on the internet. I think your
calculations are far too conservative IMHO.
Kev
In article <944lh0$7ak$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Eric Florack
>Mark,
>
>Where can one get the GCVWR for cars on the internet. I think your
>calculations are far too conservative IMHO.
>
>
Here:
http://www.trailerlife.com/
Our national Nightmare is over at last!
Leave, Bubba, and take your cigars and your band of criminals with you.
blue...@my-deja.com
A while back there was an extensive discussion at the Yahoo Club on
Hybrid Trailers about the merits and problems of using an Astro to pull
hybrid trailers. I didn't follow the discussion closely, but I do
recall that there were some very mixed opinions from experienced users.
You might do well to dig through the club's archive and make contact
with some Astro owners directly and get their candid input.
The club url is: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/hybridtrailers
In article <942vu0$sl9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
gshe...@my-deja.com wrote:
K. Kubek
very satisfied with towing. I can't answer the tow/haul button,
our '99 didn't have it.
On the other hand, our '00 does, but we now tow a Mesa. It too
performs fine. We towed the '00/bayside combo many miles and yes it
drained gas more quickly, but not obviously more than previous combo
did. We didn't burn oil, we didn't over heat.
The tow/haul is a button you engage, once you are steadily going over
50 mph. That is how we were instructed.
I am very satisfied w/my Astro.
Kimberly
--
Kubek Crew _________
'00 Astro /__________\__
'00 Mesa, [_|_|________|_\----+
(0)
Austin Boston
K. Kubek <kak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The tow/haul is a button you engage, once you are steadily going over
> 50 mph. That is how we were instructed.
>
Better check your owner's manual. Once you are going over 50, the
Tow/Haul switch does nothing. It is intended to improve torque during
acceleration by increasing the RPM's at which the transmission upshifts.
You will be able to accelerate a little faster and more smoothly if you
engage it before you start moving.
While towing, there is no problem with leaving it engaged continuously.
Austin
--
'00 Astro '00 Bayside
Snarling dogs can reduce or prevent squirrel problems.
m_filice
kevt...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Where can one get the GCVWR for cars on the internet. I think your
> calculations are far too conservative IMHO.
>
> Kev
>
Ranger at www.ford.com and received information about it when I input
my VIN number.
As far as your other comment, all I can do is quote "Trailer Life"
magazine--(they ain't my calculations, they are the vehicle
manufacturers!):
"Tow ratings didn't start appearing until the first half of the 20th
century, but today they have become our best guarantee that the vehicle
we choose will survive the rigors of towing.
Readers always ask whether tow ratings are arbitrary decisions. Many
believe there is a built-in cushion between "tow ratings" and the
actual ability of the vehicle to tow more. That may have been true a
few decades ago, but not anymore. What you see is what you get--and no
more.
Automotive manufacturers go through exhaustive testing procedures to
determine maximum tow ratings, especially on vehicles with tow ratings
of 3000 lbs. or more. The marketing objective is to provide the highest
possible tow rating while maintaining a safety margin and preserving
the longevity of the tow vehicle"
A lot of experienced RVers on the alt.rv NG subscribe to the theory
that for optimum safety, one should not tow more than 75% of their
vehicle's capacity. The GCVWR figure I quoted is actually MORE
optimistic than theirs....
--
Mark
"But officer, the trailer salesman said I could pull an Airstream
trailer with my Dodge Neon--no problem!"
jima...@my-deja.com
info I have read says to never kick the tow vehicle into overdrive
whole towing.I engage it from the start up of trip and disengage upon
arrival as stated in gmc manual..(kills the old mileage meter though)
my best to you
jim
In article <947bvj$iec$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Austin Boston
jima...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I believe it will only take you to third..not sure,but as every bit of
> info I have read says to never kick the tow vehicle into overdrive
> whole towing.I engage it from the start up of trip and disengage upon
> arrival as stated in gmc manual..(kills the old mileage meter though)
>
> my best to you
> jim
>
Quote from the Chevvy Astro web site:
Tow/Haul mode enhances Astro's performance while pulling a trailer
or hauling heavy loads. When activated, it lengthens the
transmission shift timing and helps reduce throttle pedal activity
by the driver.
Personal experience:
If you put the shift in the OD position with the tow/haul mode
activated, it will shift into OD when you reach sufficient speed/load.
It will not block the transmission from shifting into overdrive. If
you have a heavy trailer, keep it in 3rd.
Austin
--
'00 Astro '00 Bayside
Snarling dogs can reduce or prevent squirrel problems.
mounta...@mindspring.invalid
What kind of mileage do you get while towing and highway driving with
the tow/haul thing engaged?
I'm trying to estimate my gas budget for our big trip this summer, 2400
miles round trip. We averaged a nice 19.8 mpg while not towing, but
fully loaded with 7 people and lots of stuff, on a 1500 mile round trip
last month.
Thanks!
--
Margo in Florida
84 Coleman Cape Cod, 00 Safari
replace "invalid" with "com" to email
Austin Boston
mounta...@mindspring.invalid wrote:
> Hi, Jim -
>
> What kind of mileage do you get while towing and highway driving with
> the tow/haul thing engaged?
>
We get 18-19 normal, about 14 with trailer and Tow/Haul on. Since
we've never towed without both, I don't know how much of the difference
is the Tow/Haul and how much is the 3200 lb. trailer.
Austin
--
'00 Astro '00 Bayside
Snarling dogs can reduce or prevent squirrel problems.
jima...@my-deja.com
jim
In article <94i8ru$a6v$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
K. Kubek
upon receipt of our van were incorrect wouldn't it.
Kimberly
--
Kubek Crew _________
'00 Astro /__________\__
'00 Mesa, [_|_|________|_\----+
(0)
Mark J Strawcutter
>upon receipt of our van were incorrect wouldn't it.
If you're referring to verbal instructions from the dealer - not surprising.
Mark J Strawcutter
Indiana PA
'97 Coleman Key West
George & Theresa Odom
>
> same thing here...we get about 14-15mpg with tow mode and trailer
>
> jim
>
> In article <94i8ru$a6v$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Austin Boston <aust...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > In article <5n6p6tgcmt6c707jn...@4ax.com>,
> > mounta...@mindspring.invalid wrote:
> > > Hi, Jim -
> > >
> > > What kind of mileage do you get while towing and highway driving
> with
> > > the tow/haul thing engaged?
> > >
> >
> > We get 18-19 normal, about 14 with trailer and Tow/Haul on. Since
> > we've never towed without both, I don't know how much of the
> difference
> > is the Tow/Haul and how much is the 3200 lb. trailer.
> >
> > Austin
> > --
> > '00 Astro '00 Bayside
> > Snarling dogs can reduce or prevent squirrel problems.
> >
time on the freeway. But if I don't keep the speed up near 70 it's real
hard to keep the torque converter locked. On two lane I just pull down
to third and take the mileage loss.
--
George & Theresa
99 Jayco 12UDK
99 Blazer
http://vol.com/~godom/camping.html
Jim Redelfs
> Thanks, I will. Would be something if the instructions we received
> upon receipt of our van were incorrect wouldn't it.
Yeah, it would. :(
Regardless, I believe Austin is correct.
I wonder if the tow/haul feature would be an expensive upgrade to my '97 S10.
:)
JR
Jim Redelfs
> We get 18-19 normal, about 14 with trailer
That's pretty good, kiddo.
Loaded to its max with the new travel trailer, and pushing our S10 w/4.3L
to TRY an even 60 mph, we achieved a mind-numbing 7.8 mpg. Finally,
unscheduled potty stops are no longer an issue: The pickup wants to stop
more often. $25 every two hours.
We'll try getting to the annual family campout THIS year at 55 mph.
Let me tell you about the BIGGEST advantage of a pop-up trailer...
<sigh>
JR
mounta...@mindspring.invalid
Thanks for the numbers. I'll estimate 15 mpg. Let's see, 2500 miles at
15 mpg at $2/gallon....Ouch! $333. Well, a little less if gas was like
it was last year and we pay $1.80/gallon max. At least the majority of
our towing time will be interstate highway driving. Only the first 10
miles, last 10 miles, and food/gas/overnight stops will secondary roads.
--
Margo in Florida
84 Coleman Cape Cod, 00 Safari
replace "invalid" with "com" to email
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:31:42 GMT, Austin Boston <aust...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
Jim and Linda King
>> calculations are far too conservative IMHO.
>>
>> Kev
It may not be over the internet, but if you call your vehicle's manufacturer,
and give them the VIN number, they will tell you the tow rating over the
telephone (at least Chevy did, for our Astro).
Austin Boston
mounta...@mindspring.invalid wrote:
> Hi, Jim -
>
> Thanks for the numbers. I'll estimate 15 mpg. Let's see, 2500 miles
at
> 15 mpg at $2/gallon....Ouch! $333. Well, a little less if gas was
like
> it was last year and we pay $1.80/gallon max.
We'll be towing the trailer a wopping 10,000 miles this summer (8 weeks
to cross the country and return - at least 22 states). We're getting
14mpg while towing, so that comes to about $1300-$1500 dollars just for
gas. And that doesn't include gas for when the camper is parked and
we're driving to see the sights. That could easily be another few
thousand miles.
Austin - still planning the trip of a lifetime this summer.
William Moore
That mileage sounds a little high. It is only about 2600 miles coast-to-
coast, so unless you are also planning to drive the west coastline from
theCanadian border to the Mexican border, and the east coastline
from Florida to Maine, it should be more like 6-7000 miles to do
a loop trip. You could easily hit a total of 10000 with side trips though...
The bad news is that you can expect to pay over $2.00 per gallon in
the summertime on the west coast. We are still at about $1.60 per
gallon here in the Seattle area, down from a peak of almost $2.00
last summer, and next summer is expected to be worse...
Regards,
Bill Moore
98 Coleman Santa Fe
99 Dodge Durango SLT 4WD
mounta...@mindspring.invalid
That sounds like a fabulous trip! The gas prices are going to hurt,
though, aren't they? But it'll be worth it! You must have been saving
for a while for it. I'm working overtime from from now through June so
we can afford our summer trip. 50 hours last week, 48 the two weeks
prior, probably 50 this week, too.
Eight weeks at once is a real treat! We have to take our trips in bits
and pieces. Due to a health problem of one of my children, the longest
we can be gone from home and her doctor's office is 4 weeks, usually
more like 3 weeks. It required a lot of planning to be away for 3.5
weeks last summer.
Are you going to have to repack wheelbearings three times while you're
gone? I think I saw a recommendation for every 3000 miles somewhere
recently.
Are you taking a laptop with you? If you post trip reports, we can all
live vicariously through you. :-)
--
Margo in Florida
84 Coleman Cape Cod, 00 Safari
replace "invalid" with "com" to email
On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:39:47 GMT, Austin Boston <aust...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
>We'll be towing the trailer a wopping 10,000 miles this summer (8 weeks
mounta...@mindspring.invalid
I pictured a rather zig-zaggy trip. That's how I'd do it if I could,
seeing all the sights along the way in a leisurely 8 weeks, and a few
more side trips for various relatives. It would probably add up to
10,000 miles for me, too. :-)
--
Margo in Florida
84 Coleman Cape Cod, 00 Safari
replace "invalid" with "com" to email
Austin Boston
William Moore <wmo...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Austin,
>
> That mileage sounds a little high. It is only about 2600 miles coast-
to-
> coast, so unless you are also planning to drive the west coastline
from
> theCanadian border to the Mexican border, and the east coastline
> from Florida to Maine, it should be more like 6-7000 miles to do
> a loop trip. You could easily hit a total of 10000 with side trips
though...
Um, as the crow flies, maybe. We have mapped the route in detail
(perhaps a little too much detail), and measured with one of those map
measuring tools. Then we ran it through National Geographic Trip
planner, and the Good Sam direction tool, and they all came out between
9,800 and 10,000 miles total. It does include going from Anaheim to
So. Washington, however. We plan on posting the whole plan shortly,
but we won't be posting while we are on the road.
Could be one LONG trip report when we get back, though.
Austin (who carries some things to the extreme...)
Kate H.
HI Margo--
We took a 2600-mile (?) trip this past September, towing our Cheyenne, and 6 of
us & stuff--in our Safari. We avgd 15.5 mpg, despite all the mountains (I-81
and the whole Skyline Drive, etc.)
HTH,
~~~Kate
1998 GMC Safari
1999 Coleman Cheyenne
"My Child is an Honor Student at Domestica Schola" ;)
"These ARE the good old days!"
Stevncarol
>activated, it will shift into OD when you reach sufficient speed/load.
>It will not block the transmission from shifting into overdrive. If
>you have a heavy trailer, keep it in 3rd.
Hi!
Anyone know if this holds true of the Tahoe. I always drive it it the "D" or
overdrive position, rarely in 3rd, except when going up hills; rare here in
Fla.!
Our Westlake weighs alot less than the Bayside, I believe we weighed it full up
at a truck stop this summer at about 2600 lbs; and our truck pulls it without a
whimper. (Except once when my dh took off my regular tow hitch to put on his
truck at the warehouse, and gave me a totally wrong one, w/o the sway bar and
at the wrong height; big oops!)
I think we're supposed to tow it in overdrive for the Tahoe, and with the
'tow/haul' mode on.... right?
thanks!
Carol C. in Fla.
'99 Westlake
'00 Tahoe
Jim Redelfs
stevn...@aol.com (Stevncarol) wrote:
> Anyone know if this holds true of the Tahoe. I always drive it it the "D" or
> overdrive position, rarely in 3rd
Drive (OD, 4th, etc) is the manufacturer's suggested setting.
> Our Westlake weighs alot less than the Bayside, I believe we weighed it
full up
> at a truck stop this summer at about 2600 lbs; and our truck pulls it
without a
> whimper.
No doubt. :)
> I think we're supposed to tow it in overdrive for the Tahoe, and with the
> 'tow/haul' mode on.... right?
With your lash-up, that is probably be the correct configuration.
Above all, you wish to avoid transmission heat build-up. This is best
accomodated by ensuring that your transmission does not "hunt" between
third and fourth/o.d. It is OK to allow the torque converter clutch
disengage occasionally (in my case once, continuously) while in a
particular gear, but if the tranmission keeps downshifting to a lower
gear, you should move the gear selector to the lower gear and lower your
speed as needed.
Given a Tahoe towing a folddown, this should rarely be a concern unless
towing in fairly hilly terrain (or mountainous, of course).
:)
JR
eflo...@rochester.rr.com
wrote:
Actually, I can see how the guy might tell you that.
The switch is designed to run a slighly altered shift point set.
(Computer control, of course)
It is designed to stay in lower gears longer when speeding up, and
allow it to be quicker to downshift under higher tourqe situations...
such as hill-climbing. Now, if you're twoing, say, around 3000lbs, I
can see that he might think the tighter points are un-needed around
town, but might be needed for driveability out on the open road for
hill climbing.
The effect would be to allow the system to cut out the overdrive a bit
sooner. Clearly this would have an effect on responsiveness, and would
also, to my view, give your overdrive setup a,longer life... no more
stuttering on the downshift.
Just a thought... he may not have described it very well to you, but
it sounds like he may have had your particular driving situation in
mind.