Brace Instead of Roof?
Youth2000
Has anyone else on this group, with a roof sag of 1" and
seams bulging out the sides enough to stick your fingers between
the camper and the seal been told by Coleman that the dealer first must try the
brace fix?
If so, was there any success? And how long did it take to determine
if the brace was the correct solution for the sag?
MikenDeb
brace, I think it is meant to prevent the sag, not to bring
the sagging roof back into compliance. The thing I don't
understand about the brace is that it stiffens the short
span ok, but the sag does not occur side-to side; it occurs
end to end because of dead weight loading (i.e. the weight
of the roof itself plus the wt. of an A/C) in the center of
the span. It seems to me that the brace simply distrubutes
the center dead load equally to both vertical sides of the
roof(which act as beams for the roof structure) ...but the
load is still distributed at the weekest point of the
long span; the center. I wonder why they didn't try
installing the braces front to back so as to transfer the
load closer to the roof support posts? and since the front
and back roof "beams" are a shorter span wouldn't they bear
the load transfer better than the side "beams"?? Why not
install a brace in both directions? Why not produce a roof
that is self supporting?
M.Mason Austin TX 98 Bayside
p.s. I am not a structural engineer; I just know enough to
be dangerous at dinner parties.
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Tami Moykkynen
had that roof w/brace replaced.
Jack Anderson
--
Jack
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1998 Coleman Grandview SP, 1998 Ford/Starcraft Conversion Van
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Tami Moykkynen <Tmoyk...@usxchange.net> wrote in message
news:37DD9CBE...@usxchange.net...
Robert Pitney
Do you still have the original roof w/brace on your Keywest
or have you had it replaced? If replaced, is it the new
style and how is it holding up? (No pun intended) If not,
how is your original roof doing? Just curious.I'm wondering
if anybody has had the new style roof long enough to give a
performance report.
Bob Pitney
Richardson, TX.
'98 Sunridge
Original roof w/brace and A/C.
Starting to show more and more sag.
Didn't buy it so I could worry about resale.
Going camping this weekend come rain, hail, snow or sag.
Jim Blair
> Why not produce a roof that is self supporting?
That would be called a two-piece aluminum roof!
Boy would Coleman have egg on their face if they had to recant years of
one-piece ABS roof sales hype.
Mark J Strawcutter
>brace, I think it is meant to prevent the sag, not to bring
>the sagging roof back into compliance. The thing I don't
>understand about the brace is that it stiffens the short
>span ok, but the sag does not occur side-to side; it occurs
>end to end because of dead weight loading (i.e. the weight
>of the roof itself plus the wt. of an A/C) in the center of
>the span.
Sag can occur along both dimensions. Adding the brace did help
correct the side-to-side sag, but as you correctly observe the
major problem tends to be end-to-end.
> It seems to me that the brace simply distrubutes
>the center dead load equally to both vertical sides of the
>roof(which act as beams for the roof structure) ...but the
>load is still distributed at the weekest point of the
>long span; the center. I wonder why they didn't try
>installing the braces front to back so as to transfer the
>load closer to the roof support posts?
Because that's twice as expensive. If you can reduce the sag
enough with one brace so that most people stop complaining, you're
ahead financially.
> and since the front
>and back roof "beams" are a shorter span wouldn't they bear
>the load transfer better than the side "beams"?? Why not
>install a brace in both directions?
Cost and return on investment.
> Why not produce a roof
>that is self supporting?
What a concept!
Mark J Strawcutter
Indiana PA
'97 Coleman Key West
Mark J Strawcutter
>or have you had it replaced? If replaced, is it the new
>style and how is it holding up? (No pun intended) If not,
>how is your original roof doing
Replaced once with original style roof, 2-hole A/C cutout and
original pop-rivited brace - it sagged too.
Later on, brace replaced with new style brace bolted thru roof
(like they use now). Helped side-to-side sag, didn't help
front-to-back sag.
Now that the new design is readily available, once this year's
camping season is done I'll try to get it replaced again - a process
I'm not looking forward to.
Mark J Strawcutter
Indiana PA
'97 Coleman Key West
PS - also gonna try to get them to fix the defective frame and lift
system they wouldn't/couldn't fix the first time.
Tami Moykkynen
Tami
MikenDeb
brace and it did sag. I now have the new/improved roof with
a bolt-thru brace. Other posts on this subject suggest that
maybe the 2 piece aluminum roof design might be better. I
personally like the concept of a single piece roof, and hope
that the new design proves to solve the sag problem. I can
tell you that I have noticed a deflection in the center of
my new roof ("deflection" means it's a vary slight sag),
however, when I crank it down I still get a very good
seal. You can bet that I'll be watching my new roof
carefully.
As for the 2 pc roof design being better, consider this: my
neighbors had a late 70's Coleman that sat outside uncovered
for all of it's life. The caulk in the seams dried out and
cracked sometime in the early 90's and they failed to
replace all the caulk. The joints began to leak and the
plywood core in the roof rotted as well as the canvass. The
camper is now a utility trailer. This scenario will not
happen with the ABS roofs.
Jayco points out that their ABS roofs are crowned in all
directions to achieve positive drainage. I think the crown
also provides more strength to the overall structure. I
like what I see there! Does anybody know if the Jayco roofs
have any internal reinforcement inside the foam core? or is
their roof similar to Coleman's (ABS-foamcore-ABS sandwich).
Has Jayco experienced any sag in their Heritage roofs?
M.Maso Austin TX 98 Bayside
Robert Pitney
same roof construction as the Coleman. However, as you
noted the Jayco is crowned in all directions which by
design would seem to give it better "all around" support.
Also it is quite a bit thicker at the center than the
Coleman which would also lead one to believe it is more
rigid. Jayco states the roof does not required additional
bracing for A/C. Sort of speaks for itself.
As a post sript to my first post on this thread; Temps here
in North Texas dropped into the low 60's last night. This
morning when leaving to take my daughter to school I looked
at my camper's roof and guess what? No sag. None. The
cooler temps must have been enough to contract the roof. My
concern is that in the heat of the summer my roof seemed to
have more sag this year than last year. Coleman AND Jayco
do make note that their ABS roofs will expand and contract.
Bob Pitney
Richarson, Tx
J. Simonian
just purchased a 2000 Niagara and was wondering if I should keep an eye on
it also. I also had an A/C unit installed.
Any info would be appreciated!
Youth2000 <yout...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990913174034...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
popu...@my-deja.com
Jim Blair <JBl...@aol.com> wrote:
> Jack Anderson wrote:
>
> > Why not produce a roof that is self supporting?
>
>
> Boy would Coleman have egg on their face if they had to recant years
of
> one-piece ABS roof sales hype.
>
>
Series models. My 99 Santa Fe roof looks different from the earlier
ones I have seen. It also has a factory installed brace running side
to side. The a/c unit is on the back half of the roof not the center
so I guess the engineers at Coleman are figuring out the best way to
fix the problem. I have not noted any sag so far on my roof. All the
seems seem to fit fine.
One thing I like about the ABS is that it is more insulated and quiet
than the aluminum roof. Oh well, I am glad I got a good one, and my
sympathies for those who got a bad one. I am sure it can be fixed if
the new design is installed.
Don Crandall
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What if we made our own camper company and bought roofs from Jayco and
bodies from Coleman? We would outsell them both and really clean up.
(THIS IS A JOKE for those who are humor challenged.)
Don Crandall
In article <7rmqtl$11u$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
ShelaghS
>Has this roof sag problem been addressed by Coleman in the 2000 models? I
>just purchased a 2000 Niagara and was wondering if I should keep an eye on
>it also.
Coleman reported to me recently that the new roofs had a 'failure rate of under
2%' or words to that effect - progress over the other roofs I guess. I think
that there are some here in the newsgroup who are watching their 2000's very
carefully.....
Shelagh Stuart
'99 Coleman Utah
Ford F150
Mark J Strawcutter
>just purchased a 2000 Niagara and was wondering if I should keep an eye on
It's been "addressed" in every model year since the ABS roof was introduced.
The real question is has it been solved. Only time will tell.
donovanhse
>> the 2000 models?
>
> roof was introduced.
>
> The real question is has it been solved. Only time will
> tell.
Everybody (Coleman AND non-Coleman people) sure hope so.
Jerry Donovan
'99 Flagstaff 825D
Pat Pilewski
Pat 98 santa fe
MikenDeb
Concept of a single piece roof is better for the long term
(See my previous post about the rotting roof, not to mention
all of the used campers I've seen with the roof/ceiling
plywood buckling due to leaks thru the caulked seams) Does
anybody know how the ABS roofs (Coleman or Jayco) perform in
a hail storm. I know from experience that hail stones and
softballs tend to make the aluminum roof look like the lunar
surface. Also, the roof brace was used with the Coleman
alum/plywood core roof beginning in '83 or so when roof
mtd. A/C's began to offered. Was that due to weak
connection of the horizontal plywood to the vertical plywood
sides? I believe Coleman also had to up-size the lifter
cable so it would not fail under the added load of
rooftop A/C. Back in the day before ABS roofs, some manf.
boasted of the strength of their plywood/alum roof for
hauling stuff on the roof or for installing A/C without
aadded bracing...Viking for one, maybe others. At the time,
I thought that was a big advantage over Coleman. As stated
above, I prefer the single pc. roof. Time will tell if the
new design is the final design.
M.Mason Austin TX 98 Bayside
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Mark J Strawcutter
>cable so it would not fail under the added load of
>rooftop A/C.
Not sure about a change to lifter cable size, but they did
upgrade the bearings in the pulleys. For a while, adding
A/C to a Pioneer series model (lower end, Americana was the
upper end) required changing the pulleys.
MikenDeb
casting dispersions on the aluminum/plywood roofs; they have
proved to be a formidable roof for pop-ups...I guess I'm
offering a heads-up to those of you who have 2 pc roofs; be
sure to maintain your seam caulking!
donovanhse
> aluminum/plywood roofs; they have proved to be a
> formidable roof for pop-ups...
You're not?
> I guess I'm offering a heads-up to those of you who have
> 2 pc roofs; be sure to maintain your seam caulking!
Actually that is good advice, and if followed, then the
roof should last a long time. We owned a '72 Viking
which someone before us did not take good care of, and
the plywood in the roof was a problem. The tenting was a
bigger problem, but that was easier to replace, although
the tent was expensive. The roof wasn't very strong, but
after caulking at least it didn't leak anymore.
Jerry Donovan
'99 Flagstaff 825D
SawmillBound
any other manufacturer use this? I assume Jerry has it with his
Flagstaff. The one peice design does help eliminate some of the caulking
problems, but there are still the outside edges and corners that need to
be watched. Surprisingly enough, we went through a torrential hail storm
in N GA. in early May (remenants of the killer OK tornadoes).The sound
was deafening, and I thought for sure the roof was going to be trashed;
surprisingly, not a dent ( nor the truck)! Being at a 3200' elevation
may have helped. We had been out dry camping for 5 days and had no idea
about the destruction in OK, or that the storm was headed where we were
at the time. We were hit around 3am. and at that point it was a little
late to be doing much about it. If I had known it was coming, I would
have never been in a popup!
PAUL
1998 ROCKWOOD 1901
1998 MAZDA B4000
I still say the Concept of a single piece roof is better for the long
term (See my previous post about the rotting roof, not to mention all of
the used campers I've seen with the roof/ceiling plywood buckling due to
leaks thru the caulked seams) Does anybody know how the ABS roofs
(Coleman or Jayco) perform in a hail storm. I know from experience that
hail stones and softballs tend to make the aluminum roof look like the
lunar surface. As stated above, I prefer the single pc. roof. Time will
tell if the new design is the final design.
Jim and Linda King
>any other manufacturer use this?
>PAUL
>1998 ROCKWOOD 1901
>1998 MAZDA B4000
Paul,
Our 97 Palomino Filly had a one-piece aluminum roof. Noisy as all get-out in
the rain, but never leaked (of course we only had it two years.).
Linda King
'94 Chevy Astro
'99 Coleman Bayside
Mark J Strawcutter
>the rain, but never leaked (of course we only had it two years.).
Really one-piece? Or just no center seam? Many of the current aluminum
roofs are three peices - front/top/back are one, the sides are the other
two.
Jim and Linda King
>roofs are three peices - front/top/back are one, the sides are the other
>two.
>
>Mark J Strawcutter
>Indiana PA
>'97 Coleman Key West
>
Yep, you're right. It was 3 pieces: top and two edges were one, other two
edges were two more.
Thanks Mark, for clarifying the terminology of "one-piece" roof.