Chevy Suburban Tow Rating
Jim and Linda King
to find out the rear axle ratio of our Suburban (the sticker's worn off), I
called Chevy this morning. A very helpful lady looked up my vehicle, and gave
the following specs:
3.73 axle ratio
12,000 GCWR
7,215 GVWR of Suburban
5.7 litre Turbo engine
She then proceeded to SHOCK me by saying we have a 4000 tow rating. According
to Trailer Life's rating for 1994 (can't find 1993's) we should have 7000,
minus 500 for 4WD, which yields a 6500 tow rating.
If we have a tow rating of 4000, then that is less than our Astro had (5500).
Can anyone shed any further light on this?
TIA.
Linda King
Fleetville, PA
'93 Chevy Suburban
'99 Coleman Bayside (for sale!)
prospero
The lady made a mistake. Your GVWR is the maximum weight your truck should weigh.
If you travel with such a load then your tow rating goes down to 4785#. If you're
alone in the truck without any luggage your tow rating becomes 12000# minus the
weight of your empty truck. Take it to a public scale to find its weight.
Jim Redelfs
love2...@cs.com (Jim and Linda King) wrote:
> 5.7 litre Turbo engine
Turbo? I seriously doubt it. That I know of, a turbocharger has NEVER
been an option on the Suburban.
> She then proceeded to SHOCK me by saying we have a 4000 tow rating.
If you load the ghettocruiser to its maximum GVWR, and the GCWR is
12,000-lbs, you indeed have a 4,785-lb tow rating.
Take the ole sled to a truck stop with a full tank of gas and find out
how much it weighs. If you can pack it with the weight equal to what
you normally carry when driving to camp (passengers, luggage and
supplies), even better. Subtract your scale weight from 12,000-lbs and
you have the maximum weight of trailer (fully loaded and wet) that you
can tow.
I don't mean to be discouraging but a 4x4 Suburban 1500 with the 5.7L
(350cid) V8 and the 3.73 (as opposed to the "better" 4.10) rear-end gear
ratio isn't the killer TOW vehicle you may have believed. It's no joke
that you didn't gain a WHOLE LOT moving from your Astro. If you load
the inside of the 'burb to its max, you may have even downgraded a bit.
Think about it: You gained 1.4L (1400cc) and two cylinders when you
changed from the Astro to the Suburban. At the same time, you probably
increased vehicle weight by at least 1-1/2 times, if not nearly double.
Obviously, you didn't increase the size of the engine by that much. Not
even close.
Real haulers are 2500 (so-called 3/4-ton) trucks with either a diesel or
"big block" gas engine. That what I got last October. It'll tow
ANYTHING I aspire to (and even some stuff I don't) and will pass
anything on the road EXCEPT a gas station.
Some stats: My new Silverado has a GCWR of 20,000-lbs. That's because
it has the 3.73 ratio. With the 4.10, it would increase a ton to
22,000-lbs. This is all by virtue of its being a 2500 truck with an
8.1L (496cid) engine. Interestingly, the diesel option has the same,
higher GCWR, but with the lower ratio (3.73).
If you're seriously going to move to the <ahem> HARDside of the force
<g>, you're gonna have to start weight watching again, probably pretty
seriously. You'll find that, especially in your case, it's not the
WEIGHT, it's the PROFILE. Towing the "wall" (travel trailer) down the
road behind us is what KILLED the S10's performance. The weight was
within the specs of the "truck".
Remember, your Suburban is a HAULER as much as a TOWER. If you keep
things as light as possible *IN* the truck, you should be OK with a
pretty large hybrid. Now, if you get into the 25-ft models with the
slideout, and bring along your anvil and rock collection, you're gonna
be pushing things, methinks.
...and just when you were convinced that you were equipped to pull that
32-foot, triple slide! <sigh>
Good luck!
:)
JR
--
2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT
2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD
8.1L V8 4WD
Mark Filice hotmail.com>
>
>During my ongoing quest to replace our popup with a hybrid trailer, in trying
>to find out the rear axle ratio of our Suburban (the sticker's worn off), I
>called Chevy this morning. A very helpful lady looked up my vehicle, and gave
>the following specs:
>
>3.73 axle ratio
>12,000 GCWR
>7,215 GVWR of Suburban
>5.7 litre Turbo engine
>
>She then proceeded to SHOCK me by saying we have a 4000 tow rating. According
>to Trailer Life's rating for 1994 (can't find 1993's) we should have 7000,
>minus 500 for 4WD, which yields a 6500 tow rating.
>
If these numbers are correct, the maximum your Suburban, trailer, and all gear,
passengers and fluid can weigh is 12,000 lbs. total.
The maximum your Suburban can weigh fully loaded at any time is 7,215 lbs.--this
is without the trailer.
The numbers you gave would suggest that you not buy a trailer with more than a
GVWR of 4,785 lbs.. The equation is the sum of the GVWR of the trailer and the
GVWR of the tow vehicle should not exceed the GCWR of the tow vehicle. This
equation often dictates a lighter load than the listed towing capacity.
The tow rating is typically the maximum you can tow AND carry. So if you had a
6,500 lb. rating for the Suburban, you would have to subtract from the tow
rating the amount of stuff you are carrying (passengers, gear, fluids, etc.) in
BOTH the trailer and the tow vehicle.
That is why the GVWR of 4,785 lbs. is probably the most your prospective trailer
should be able to weigh fully loaded.
Good Luck,
Mark Filice
1999 Starcraft Starflyer
1990 Ford Ranger
Ab Diver
Some stats: My new Silverado has a GCWR of 20,000-lbs. That's because it
has the 3.73 ratio. With the 4.10, it would increase a ton to 22,000-lbs.
This is all by virtue of its being a 2500 truck with an
8.1L (496cid) engine. Interestingly, the diesel option has the same,
higher GCWR, but with the lower ratio (3.73).
**********
Interesting. Those new HD Chevys are beasts! My truck (K3500) has a 9200
GVWR, and is rated to tow 10,000. And that's with the 7.4L big block and
4.10 rear-end. It would have taken the 4.56 gears for it to pull 12,000
(fifth wheel only). The same year K2500 was rated at 10,500 towing. Like
you, more than I'll ever need until the kids are gone and we want to carry
our 4 bedroom house around the country with us. <G> What I really find
surprising is the allowed weight of a slide-in camper for my truck: 1885
lbs.... some of the big campers in this month's Camping Life are well over
3000 lbs. dry weight! The crew-cab's back seat for the kids comes at a
price.
(muttering) I didn't want a dually, I didn't want a dually, I didn't want
a dually...
BTW: that new stump-pulling diesel Chevy has doesn't need the deeper
gears... RPM limits and all. Hell, it would probably out-pull my truck from
a standing start using only 3rd gear. ;-)
--
Dave Morris
'86 Starcraft Starlite 21 SD
'97 Chevy 3500 Crew-cab 4x4 (SRW)
Rodney
I had my 97 Suburban weighed at a public scale and with a full tank of
gas (42 gallons) it weighed in at 5400lbs.
Rodney
prospero <pros...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3C3A1000...@sympatico.ca>...
Jim Redelfs
"Ab Diver" <ela...@pacific.net> wrote:
> Those new HD Chevys are beasts!
Oh, do you really THINK?!? <grin>
I bought mine "off the lot" with the extended cab and LONG box. [music]
Gimme 40 acres and I'll turn this rig around. (I am DYING to go towing
- almost more than camping at this point. I hauled the TT home from the
RV place after the new truck was broken-in, and put the trailer into
winter storage. ARGH!!!!) :)
> My truck (K3500) has a 9200 GVWR, and is rated to tow 10,000.
> And that's with the 7.4L big block and 4.10 rear-end. It would have
> taken the 4.56 gears for it to pull 12,000 (fifth wheel only).
They really "upped" the ratings when they introduced the HD lineup. I
guess it was to compete with <gag> Ford and <gag x2) Dodge. They did it
right, though: The powertrain on my pickup is the same as that being
used on Workhorse's new motorhome chassis! Zounds! Using two, fewer
cylinders, the Vortec 8100 produces more horsepower and torque than the
other two popular brands' V10s!
> The same year K2500 was rated at 10,500 towing. Like
> you, more than I'll ever need until the kids are gone and we want to carry
> our 4 bedroom house around the country with us. <G>
Well, when camping, I always tend to bring everything *AND* the kitchen
sink. Now I can do it with ease. At least until I stop at the gas
pump. <sigh>
> What I really find surprising is the allowed weight of a slide-in camper
> for my truck: 1885 lbs.... some of the big campers in this month's Camping
> Life are well over 3000 lbs. dry weight! The crew-cab's back seat for the
> kids comes at a price. (muttering) I didn't want a dually, I didn't want a
> dually, I didn't want a dually...
Hehehehe! Yes, you did. You just didn't know it at the time. :)
> BTW: that new stump-pulling diesel Chevy has doesn't need the deeper
> gears... RPM limits and all. Hell, it would probably out-pull my truck from
> a standing start using only 3rd gear. ;-)
Izuzu makes a good diesel. They have a proven track record, so it
should do VERY well for Chevrolet. For the optional cost of $4500, it
had BETTER be good. I chose to NOT get the diesel, and not due mainly
to the optional cost. I'm using this truck to commute all of 4 miles
to/from work. In that short time/distance, an oil burner wouldn't even
warm up. Besides, there's all the different "rules" and stuph with a
diesel that I didn't want to get into. (Different and MORE filters,
other specific maintenance things, etc.)
One thing I COUNTED on, and haven't been surprised or even much
disappointed, is that the Big Block <tm> gas engine gets pretty LOUSY
fuel "economy" whether it is towing or not. It doesn't care. With
barely 3k on the clock, I'm averaging 10.5 mpg. I'll bet your 7.4L (454
cid) gets about the same, perhaps a little less. Right?
Hey! These monsters were made for PULLING and/or hauling a *LOT* of
weight. That doesn't allow for the fuel economy of a FWD 4-banger. Oh,
well.
:)
JR
Mike Mason
> I called Chevy this morning. A very helpful lady looked up my vehicle,
> and gave the following specs:
> 3.73 axle ratio
> 12,000 GCWR
> 7,215 GVWR of Suburban
> 5.7 litre Turbo engine
Linda - you have a 5.7L/350cubic inch TBI or "throttle body injected"
(not turbo)
I came to the same sad conclusion (as others have suggested in this
thread) that 1/2 ton vehicles are for people hauling and not for
trailer hauling. I pulled my 91 Sub and 98 Bayside on the scales a
couple of years ago and we weighed 9999 lbs (people + stuff + dogs et
al). My vehicle (3:73 + 5.7L engine) also has the 12000 GCWR, and
using the 80% rule (re: Stephen Talmage's article from Pop-up Times
last year) that means I have already reached the "safe" towing GCWR
already...no room to get anything heavier than the Bayside. I'm
looking for some pixy dust to magically convert my Sub to a 2500 with
a 454 :)
Mike in Austin
Jim and Linda King
>been an option on the Suburban.
>
Well, that's what the good lady said.
>If you load the ghettocruiser to its maximum GVWR, and the GCWR is
>12,000-lbs, you indeed have a 4,785-lb tow rating.
Yep, that part I definitely understand. That would give us 785 over an
apparently arbitrary 4000 rating that she gave me.
>I don't mean to be discouraging but a 4x4 Suburban 1500 with the 5.7L
>(350cid) V8 and the 3.73 (as opposed to the "better" 4.10) rear-end gear
>ratio isn't the killer TOW vehicle you may have believed. It's no joke
>that you didn't gain a WHOLE LOT moving from your Astro. If you load
>the inside of the 'burb to its max, you may have even downgraded a bit.
Watch your mouth, boy! :-) You've gone from calling my 'burb the "S.S.
King" to calling it a possible downgrade from an Astro! Geesh! Seriously, JR,
the huge improvement was in wheelbase length and handling. I never like the
way the Astro handled by itself, much less with a trailer of any kind behind
it.
We also have a real truck frame now, as opposed to the partial frame/partial
unibody design of the Astro (remember that lengthy thread here?)
>Towing the "wall" (travel trailer) down the
>road behind us is what KILLED the S10's performance. The weight was
>within the specs of the "truck".
That I understand as well. That is one reason we have eliminated the tallest,
and widest hybrids in the group.
>Remember, your Suburban is a HAULER as much as a TOWER. If you keep
>things as light as possible *IN* the truck, you should be OK with a
>pretty large hybrid. Now, if you get into the 25-ft models with the
>slideout, and bring along your anvil and rock collection, you're gonna
>be pushing things, methinks.
Sounds like the movie "The Long Long Trailer". Actually, other than clothing
and personal items, we don't travel very heavy. We absolutely never travel
with water in the tank, which helps too.
>...and just when you were convinced that you were equipped to pull that
>32-foot, triple slide! <sigh>
>
>Good luck!
> :)
>JR
Actually, it's a good think I never wanted to go big now I guess.
Question for you: What are the exterior height/width/length dimensions of your
Skamper, and what does it weigh? What hitch are you using, and exactly what do
you feel when a truck flies by you? Someone did tell me that no matter what,
the hybrid is going to "move us" some under certain conditions no matter what.
That doesn't sound right to me. We have friend towing a 26' travel trailer
with a 1500 Dodge Ram pickup, standard length cab, with the standard weight
dist./sway controlling hitch. They towed it back and forth to Florida and had
no sway at all and no handling problems. That's what we want. Is it really
impossible to have *no* movement from the trailer?
Jim and Linda King
reading that article in Camping Life this month as well, looking at the
weights.
For instance, isn't a Ford 250 pickup a 3/4 ton pickup? Isn't that payload?
And doesn't all the weight of a slide-in (pickup) camper become payload?
I know this is really OT, but it is camping-related, and Jim and I have
discussed this many times.
Thanks.
Linda King
meldx
most hybrids are very light, and also have approx the same witdh than a Pop-up.
Most likely, depending on the model you are looking at... the hybrid will be approx. 1500# heavier than your "old"
pop-up. With a good WDH and Anti-sway device you should see no difference compared to the Astro towing your pop-up!
probably even better because the wheel base is much longer with Sub.
Just keep in mind some of the basics to be on the safe side:
Whatch for high winds... they'll push you more than with the pop-up
Don't drive too fast...
don't follow too close...
eliminate all the gear that is useless...(I actually carry less stuff with my TT than previously basically cause I
made a good clean up of stuff Iwasn't using)
(anyway, that's what I experienced with my 25' TT and 1500PU which is 1500# eavier than my previous pop-up a Coleman
Casa-Grande)
Mel
Mike Mason wrote:
--
MELDX....FAMILY AND CAMPING SITE
http://www3.sympatico.ca/meldx
family e-mail: me...@sympatico.ca
camping-RV e-mail: camp...@gosympatico.ca
Jim and Linda King
>gear, passengers and fluid can weigh is 12,000 lbs. total.
>
>The maximum your Suburban can weigh fully loaded at any time is 7,215
>lbs.--this is without the trailer.
>
>The numbers you gave would suggest that you not buy a trailer with more than a
GVWR of 4,785 lbs.. The equation is the sum of the GVWR of the trailer and the
>GVWR of the tow vehicle should not exceed the GCWR of the tow vehicle. This
>equation often dictates a lighter load than the listed towing capacity.
>That is why the GVWR of 4,785 lbs. is probably the most your prospective
trailer should be able to weigh fully loaded.
>
>Good Luck,
>Mark Filice
Mark, thanks! The GCWR thing certainly makes sense now.
And I now believe I know where the 4000 lb. tow rating came from. I braved
venturing over to the alt.rv. NG as well, and someone there has the 1993 GM
Towing Guide with specs. I will quote from his post:
"Maximum trailer weight: 6500 lbs.
This is for a 1500 4wd Suburban with a 3.73 rear axle and a 5.7 l engine. The
vehicle must also have the Z82 trailering package consisting of a weight
distributing hitch platform (receiver), 7 wire trailering harness, transmission
cooler and engine oil cooler to achieve this maximum. The GCWR is 12000. If
you don't have the weight distributing hitch platform, then you are using a
bumper hitch, in which case the trailer weight is limited to 4000 lbs. max."
This makes more sense. In fact, if you take 75% of the 6500 lb. tow rating,
you get 4875, which is precisely the GCWR of 12,000 minus the GVWR of the
'burb (7215).
If I did my math right, then I believe I have earned an FITMOT degree:
"Female In Training (of) Male Only Things"
Yes? No? How'd I do ? If I'm right, then I really believe in the 75% rule
because it seems that manufacturers use that in actuality. In fact, I have the
May 2000 Trailer Life magazine which reviews the "new improved" Suburban. They
list these specs for the 2000 'burb 1500 4wd:
GCWR: 14,000
GVWR of 'burb alone: 7,200
That would seem to leave a GVWR for a trailer of 6800. Yet they list a tow
rating of 8800 lbs.! If you take 75% of 8800, you get 6600, which is mighty
close to the 6800 lb. difference.
I hope I'm making sense. I feel like I'm learning a whole new language.
Regardless-I feel comfortable looking at hybrids with a GVWR of slightly under
5000, because I know we won't load it all the way. Also-I am looking at the
ones with the lightest possible unloaded weight-for instance the Kiwi already
weights 4000 lbs. without options or packing.
Jim and Linda King
>I had my 97 Suburban weighed at a public scale and with a full tank of
>gas (42 gallons) it weighed in at 5400lbs.
>
>Rodney
>
Thanks Rodney! That is very helpful. I am hoping to find scales around here,
as I figure I'm at least smart enough to drive my 'burg onto a scale and get a
total weight .
Jim and Linda King
>(not turbo)
Well, gee whiz, the "nice lady" said "Turbo". Apparently she misinterpreted
the "TBI" abbreviation.
>I came to the same sad conclusion (as others have suggested in this
>thread) that 1/2 ton vehicles are for people hauling and not for
>trailer hauling. I pulled my 91 Sub and 98 Bayside on the scales a
>couple of years ago and we weighed 9999 lbs (people + stuff + dogs et
>al).
Well, I do think they're for trailer hauling, just not big, gigundous,
trailers. Our hopefully-future hybrid should weight just about 1000 more than
our Bayside, loaded, and I know that will be within safe limits. But over
that? forget it!
See my post on this thread labeled "New Info..." as I believe I have uncovered
the mystery surrounding the 4000 number, as well as detecting the correct tow
information.
> I'm
>looking for some pixy dust to magically convert my Sub to a 2500 with
>a 454 :)
>
>Mike in Austin
Ooooh, Mike, when you find some, can I share? :-)
meldx
they call the Haul Capacity.... if I do recall, that's what they call it in my
chevy brochure of my Sylverado1500... I don't remember the exact figure..I'll
check tonight if I have time.... this becomes handy when towing a Fiver... you
need to know how much weight is going to be added in the box...
Mel
--
Dick
Jim Redelfs
love2...@cs.com (Jim and Linda King) wrote:
> What are the exterior height/width/length dimensions of your
> Skamper, and what does it weigh?
It's about 25-ft long and is supposedly 7-ft wide (a "narrow" body). I am
unsure of the height, but am confident that it is "standard", then there's
the air conditioner atop it.
Nell
Yep, I say you earned your degree. :)
I know when we had the 1999 1500 Conversion van, it had a 5.7liter,
3:73 rear and a tow rating of 6500lbs. Sounds right to me about the
suburban. A friend had a 93 suburban and 1/2 ton, she got talked into
a trailer that was way too much to pull with it- a 30footer. She
found out the hard way by blowing the tranny going up the hill on I-84
before you hit to border to PA coming from NY. Ouch! Go into this
with all your information, stand by it, most sales guys I have dealt
with don't think we know anything, much less about towing a trailer.
:)
I decided to get the bigger suburban as you remember only because we
were going to be maxed out with the van and the new trailer. It could
have pulled it, but it was going to be a cross your finger experience.
If you are getting a lightweight then you'll be alright. You should
still have lbs to spare when towing. Also for a weigh station, most
places that take garbage refuse have one too, ours does. I've had the
suburban on it to get rid of garbage and got a print out before
dumping it to after.
Better start thinking about all the RV shows coming up now. Heck,
there's one here in NY around the 22 of Feb. at Suffern Community
College! :)
Nell
Former Coleman Casa Grande owner
1999 Keystone Sprinter 265BH
2001 Chevy Suburban 2500 LT 6.0-4:10 Autoride 4x4
NY
Dick
Then "view trailering chart"
Mark Filice hotmail.com>
says...
>
>If I did my math right, then I believe I have earned an FITMOT degree:
>
>"Female In Training (of) Male Only Things"
>
>Yes? No? How'd I do ? If I'm right, then I really believe in the 75% rule
>because it seems that manufacturers use that in actuality. In fact, I have the
>May 2000 Trailer Life magazine which reviews the "new improved" Suburban. They
>list these specs for the 2000 'burb 1500 4wd:
>
You are doing fine. However, the 75% "rule" is recommended by trailerists--not
the car makers. The car makers would have you believe that you can tow a 3,500
lb. trailer with a minivan--because that is the towing "capacity".
The trailer salesperson says that you can tow a trailer that weighs up to the
3,500 lbs. capacity--because they want to sell a nice trailer.
You can--but only if the trailer weighs less than 3,500 lbs. AND you are
carrying NOTHING in the vehicle except the driver.
>
>I hope I'm making sense. I feel like I'm learning a whole new language.
>
>Regardless-I feel comfortable looking at hybrids with a GVWR of slightly under
>5000, because I know we won't load it all the way. Also-I am looking at the
>ones with the lightest possible unloaded weight-for instance the Kiwi already
>weights 4000 lbs. without options or packing.
>
One thing that I can add is to watch the unloaded weight vs. the GVWR of the
trailer. Some models allow for very little cargo to be added to the trailer
before going over the GVWR. The number I have seen depicting this is the NCC
(Net Cargo Capacity).
All things being equal, I would choose a trailer with a greater NCC so I can put
more stuff in it....
Jim Redelfs
love2...@cs.com (Jim and Linda King) wrote:
> For instance, isn't a Ford 250 pickup a 3/4 ton pickup?
Nope. It's a F250 pickup.
> Isn't that payload?
Not really. The 1/2 Ton and 3/4 Ton labels haven't been OFFICIALLY used
for YEARS. I'm not sure they ever were OFFICIALLY used.
Anymore, the x-Ton designation signifies much the same as 'LT' or 'LS'
or 'SLT', etc. Instead of trim and options, however, it represents the
heavydutyness (?) of the model.
Heck, the so-called 1/2-Ton pickups of today are not much "beefier" than
the old, full-sized, rearwheel-drive Oldsmobile CARS of yesteryear.
Remember how you used to see LONG (for then) trailers being pulled
behind full-sized Fords and Cadillacs? They were up to the task because
they were rearwheel drive (not 4x4), had a full, real FRAME and had HUGE
engines. Nobody cared about fuel economy.
> And doesn't all the weight of a slide-in (pickup) camper become payload?
Yes.
:)
JR
Jim Redelfs
work, talking with another person and accidentally hit the post button.
In article <20020108083752...@mb-fw.news.cs.com>,
love2...@cs.com (Jim and Linda King) wrote:
> What are the exterior height/width/length dimensions of
> your Skamper
I thought I'd let you peruse the on-line specs. We have a 2000 SK249.
I believe they are unchanged in this table.
<http://www.thorindustries.com/scripts/ThorFramework.exe/ModelsView?CID={
4069568E-F544-4E48-9560-001A80F6C95D}&Manufacturer=Aero&Model=Skamper+Lit
e&ModelYear=2001&View=Spec1&Specs=Y&Features=&Dealer=&Special=>
> what does it weigh?
I just went out to the garage and exhumed my three-ring binder with all
the camper info, including my scale tickets. This should provide a good
example of BROCHURE weight versus REAL weight.
When it was BRAND new, before the camper ever went home, I had the
dealer fill the water tank (30-gallons, 36 with the heater), and the
two, 7-1/2-gallon (60-lbs) LP tanks were full. Otherwise the rig was
completely empty. I towed it to a truck stop certified scale and weight
the unit, "wet but empty".
It tipped the scale at precisely 4300-lbs. That's 384-lbs MORE than the
so-called UVW (unloaded vehicle weight). Typically, that figure does
NOT include any optional equipment, of which this trailer has plenty.
So, their UVW isn't really that misleading or optimistic, considering
the addition of a microwave, air conditioner, awning, TV antenna and a
few other items - PLUS the weight of the water and LP.
However, I promptly took the "light" out of "ultra light" by swapping
the WORTHLESS bed mattress with a "real" Simmons, queen mattress. This
expensive mattress weighs a "TON". I then proceeded to add a TurboMaxx
vent fan, BAL leveling jacks, electric tongue jack, TV and my vast
collection of rocks and anvils. I haven't had it on a scale since, but
I don't *THINK* I've exceeded the trailer's GVWR. Perhaps I'll weight
it again this season - not that it would matter to my new pickup.
<smug grin>
> What hitch are you using
A plain jane weight distributing hitch (Ea-Z-Lift) in a Class III
receiver. I use a Reese friction-type sway bar.
> and exactly what do
> you feel when a truck flies by you?
This was the fabulous part: Very little. And that's with the old S10.
As I've said before, the lashup was GREAT! It tracks as solid as a
rock. The proverbial semi-truck STORMING at you from the other
direction down a narrow, two-lane road isn't even a "white knuckle"
affair. With Tekonsha's Sentinal brake controller, I have enough brakes
to lock 'em up and smoke 'em if need be.
This is exactly why I've recommended that you do NOT spend the MEGA bux
for a Hensley or PullRite until AFTER you determined that your trailer
is otherwise unmanagable. A hybrid behind a Suburban? I don't see them
as really necessary. YOU may, however, appreciate the increased
stability they reportedly provide. However, if you start right out with
one of those expensive hitches, how will you know if there's any
difference or, if there is, how MUCH?
> Someone did tell me that no matter what, the hybrid is going to "move
> us" some under certain conditions no matter what.
This is true. In fact, with the S10, the most noticable "move" I felt
was when being overtaken and passed by a semi going in the same
direction. It felt as though the trailer was being "sucked into" their
lane and required a firm, but not "white knuckle", grip on the wheel.
I have every expectation that, even with my new WonderWagon, I'll still
feel the camper back there. I think that's unavoidable. It just won't
be anywhere near what we were used to - and was no problem even then.
> Is it really impossible to have *no* movement from the trailer?
Sure. Leave it home. [ducking] :)
Even with a HUGE tow vehicle pulling a LIGHT trailer properly loaded and
hitched, the driver is going to feel SOMETHING most of the time. With a
good lashup, this feeling shouldn't be distracting or disturbing AT ALL.
:)
JR
the old anarchist
gears. and they rate autos higher than manuals. and it does weight every bit
of 2.5 tons.
which surburban is it? probably the smaller one. just some quick looking,
6500# is the limit for towing. (add that to the gvw and you are close to
that 12k lbs.)
remember, this is a truck. with seats. it has the small engine. has the
lighter setup in trans, diff, shocks, springs. it basically is your
standard half ton pick up. the 2500 is the three quarter setup and the 3500
is the full ton. yeah, they still rate this way as payload. it is the spring
setup that is the key here. payload doesn't equate as towing capacity. good
tool for guidelines, but not the same.
worse thing here, will it ever pass a gas station? it will tow.
the old anarchist
"Jim and Linda King" <love2...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20020108083752...@mb-fw.news.cs.com...
Ab Diver
Dave-could you perhaps explain how weight rating for pickups work? I was
reading that article in Camping Life this month as well, looking at the
weights.
For instance, isn't a Ford 250 pickup a 3/4 ton pickup? Isn't that payload?
And doesn't all the weight of a slide-in (pickup) camper become payload?
I know this is really OT, but it is camping-related, and Jim and I have
discussed this many times.
***********
No, it's not off topic. Linda, you wouldn't believe the can of worms your
question opened up. Here I have a 1-ton truck Chevy, JR has a 3/4 ton Ford,
and you've got a half ton Burbie. Sounds pretty simple, right? Read on...
Ok, we have a Camping Life article showing lots of top end campers loaded on
your average, everyday pickups. Several of them have dry weights of over
3000 lbs. No fluids, battery, propane, just the camper (as per Starcraft and
Fleetwood... more on that later). "Hmmm..." thinks I, " I can carry one of
those bad boys, I gots meeself a one-tunhner." Grab my manual, look up the
section on "Trucks- Camper Loading Information" and read this:
<<<[When you carry a slide-in camper, the total cargo load of your vehicle
is the weight of the camper, plus-
*everything else added to the camper after it left the factory,
* everything in the camper and
*all the people inside.
The cargo Weight Rating (CWR) is the maximum weight of the load your vehicle
can carry. It doesn't include the weight of the people inside. But, you can
figure about 150 lbs. (68 kg) for each seat.
The total cargo load must not be more than your vehicle's CWR]<<<
Ok folks, read the above line again. Engrave that in your memory, there'll
be a test later. The CWR of my truck is located in the glove box. JR, what
does your's say? Does Ford list a CWR? I'm dying to know after today's
events, cuz mine said "1885 lbs."
Whoa! Red flag time. I go back, re-read that section, and scratch my head. I
thought the Payload (as shown on Chevy's web site) was the GVWR minus the
Curb Weight. That would leave me a lot more than 1885 lbs. Called my
dealership to get an explanation of this CWR thing. They couldn't answer me.
Called Chevy's Help Line... no help there. They referred me to Chevy's
Product Info Line (1-800-962-2868), where a very nice lady had no idea where
this number came from. But they told me a brand new 1500 Silverado 4x4 LS
ext-cab had a GVWR of 6400 and a payload of 2021 lbs.
So I sez: "You're telling me a new half ton truck can carry more than my 5
year old one ton truck?" and explained the seemingly contradictory section
on camper loading info. The response basically amounted to "Uhm, er, uh...
" (No, not that bad, really) I just couldn't get a straight answer. She,
and everyone at Chevy, were trying to be helpful, but nobody could say where
Chevy got this number. Plenty of towing charts and ratings, but no charts
listing CWR.
Called Starcraft and Fleetwood to see if they could tell me what camper
would fit my truck. Yup, both said the model shown in the Camping Life
article would work fine on my rig. I told them the CWR of my truck, and ....
silence. They couldn't tell me how that number fit into their numbers.
(can't blame them, neither could Chevy) Now, we all know not to choose an RV
based solely on the RV dealer's word, so in spite of the nice folks at both
RV manufacturers trying their best to be helpful, I thought I would do a
little more investigating.
So I weighed my rig at the local truck stop. I've done this before, but
wanted to have fresh numbers. For the record, my truck is a 1997 K3500 (4x4)
crew-cab, SRW, big block engine. It has a raised-roof A.R.I. camper shell, a
Rack-it lumber rack (a really stout brand of truck rack), full length
Ultra-board running boards, and a full-width Manik brush guard. Add a full
tank of gas, some odds and ends in the pick-up bed, and myself (215 lbs.),
and we weighed 7640 lbs. Drop that from my GVWR of 9200, and we get 1560
lbs. Yikes. Now, I figure there is at least 500 lbs. in the shell, rack,
roo-guard, running boards, and the stuff in the bed. At least...heck, that's
being conservative. So my payload should be higher than the 1885 figure.
(Dunno what the *exact* payload specs are for my truck, I didn't have a
chance to look them up today- sorry) But, you figure in the weight of people
in the truck, luggage, and *stuff* carried on your average trip, it doesn't
leave much in the way of hauling capacity for your CWR. And a large camper?
Forgeddabouddit.
"But, but, but... I gots a onetuhnner..."
Armed with this info, I drove over to the Chevy dealer to find out what was
going on with this CWR thing. Now, after explaining that I had already
talked to several people on the phone from Chevy (their dealership included)
and that I wasn't looking to buy a new truck, could they please give me some
concrete info on how big a camper I can carry. Showed them the Camping Life
mag, and they all agreed that I should be able to carry any of those big
monsters. Pointed out the weight of those campers, and the CWR of my truck,
and...
silence.
Then a "Huh, where'd you get THAT number?"
Just to make sure it wasn't a typo, I asked if I could look at that purty
brand new 1500 Silverado LS 4x4 ext-cab over there. Yup, same thing I was
quoted on the phone as having a payload of 2021 (although their web site sez
1547 lbs., she probably read the specs for the 2WD model). Ok, open the
door, GVWR of 6400, sounds right. Looked in the glove box, and the label for
the CWR sez.... 663 lbs. (ayup, that is six hundred and sixty three pounds!)
THAT got their attention. The label in the glove box contradicted the info
in their brochures. Nobody could figure out why Chevy basically says their
truck would be overloaded with four 50 lbs. bags of dogfood, a driver, and
two rotweilers. It didn't jive with the listed payload capacity. To be fair,
the local salesman was baffled at where Chevy got this number, and is going
to do some digging on his own. This number is not exactly a strong marketing
point, from his perspective. <G>
I'm waiting for his response. He'll call me just as soon as he gets this
tracked down. I hope he does better than I did.
So, to make a VERY long story short, and answer Linda's question: I dunno.
I'm totally confused by these contrasting Payload/CWR numbers from Chevy. An
F-250 *is* a 3/4 ton truck, but the GVWR depends on the suspension (remember
the *little* F-250 parked next to the *big* F-250 on Ford's lot?) Judging by
the payload capacity, I should be able to carry a pretty big camper. But
going by the CWR of my truck, I'm good for Starcraft's lightest 8' model.
And that new half ton Chevy? It's good for hauling feather pillows,
according to it's CWR.
Is this just the Legal Dept. at Chevy covering their backside? And what of
the liability of a Camper Manufacturer selling units far in excess of the
stated CWR of a truck? Can anybody here explain where Chevy got it's CWR
from?
This is where JR pipes up and says his truck can carry my whole truck AND
the camper on it's back. Whaaaaaahahah...
Ab Diver
Dave, in a rush to type while thinking of three things at once, committed a
great mistake by linking Jim Redelfs new wundertruck with another friend's
new Ford. Sorry, Jim. Mucho Apologetico.
Jim and Linda King
>put
>more stuff in it....
>
>Mark Filice
Thanks, Mark, that's exactly what we're doing. All the hybrids we're seriously
considering have a GVWR of around 5000. However-the greatest difference is in
the UVW. That ranges from 3200 to 4000. Needless to say, we're staying at the
low end.
Matthew S. Whiting
>
> Jim Redelfs wrote:
>
> Some stats: My new Silverado has a GCWR of 20,000-lbs. That's because it
> has the 3.73 ratio. With the 4.10, it would increase a ton to 22,000-lbs.
> This is all by virtue of its being a 2500 truck with an
> 8.1L (496cid) engine. Interestingly, the diesel option has the same,
> higher GCWR, but with the lower ratio (3.73).
That's because it has more torque than the gas engine.
Matt
Jim Redelfs
"Ab Diver" <ela...@pacific.net> wrote:
> >>>JR has a 3/4 ton Ford,<<<
>
>
> Dave, in a rush to type while thinking of three things at once, committed a
> great mistake by linking Jim Redelfs new wundertruck with another friend's
> new Ford. Sorry, Jim. Mucho Apologetico.
This is a perfect example of WHY it is a good practice to read to the
END of the replies before posting a reply. I was going to tease you for
associating me with a <bleh> Ford.
:)
JR
Bill
http://www.catscale.com/cgi-bin/locgen.cgi?state=PA
"Jim and Linda King" <love2...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20020108090142...@mb-fw.news.cs.com...
Dave Gilmore
The GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is mainly limited by the
vehicle's suspension and axle ratings.
The GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is mainly limited by the
vehicle's engine, transmission, drivetrain, and braking system (after
all, the engine doesn't care if the weight is in the cargo bed or in
the trailer behind - it still has to work the same, wind resistance
aside).
About the GCW - lets for example assume a vehicle whose axle rating
are 4000lb each, and the vehicle weights 6000lb. One could assume
then that the vehicle can carry 2000 lb before exceeding the GVWR -
assuming that the weight is evenly distributed between the two axles.
Put more than 1000 lb in the cargo area (over the rear axle), and you
would exceed the axle rating, but still be under the GVWR. I will bet
that this GCW is GM's estimate of how much cargo you can carry in the
cargo area before the rear axle's weight rating is exceeded.
As I said, this is only a theory....
Dave
Ab Diver
lbs., front axle was 4160 lbs., and the rear axle was only 3480 lbs. The
GAWR for my rear axle is 6084 lbs., theoretically still giving me 2604 lbs.
before reaching it's limit (even with the camper shell, rack, etc. already
on my truck). It may have to do with overloading the front axle, but the
manual is specific about "where" the load's center of gravity should be. In
my case, it can be anywhere from 53" from the rear edge of the load floor,
to all the way back to 0.0" from the rear edge of the load floor (tailgate).
And adding the ratings for both axles doesn't work either. The front GAWR is
4500 lbs. Add the front and rear GAWR and I get 10,584 lbs.-- way over the
truck's 9200 GVWR.
Speaking of GVWR, if my truck weighs less than 7000 lbs. without the stuff
already on it (say it weighs 6500 lbs., being REAL generous for the weight
of the shell and rack), that still only leaves me 2700 lbs. before I reach
my GVWR, regardless of how much is on each axle. So who is Camping Life
trying to kid saying I can put a 3000+ lbs. (dry weight) slide-in Camper on
my truck?
I'm not trying to argue with your theory. It's just that Chevy's CWR rating
doesn't seem to follow any formula I'm aware of. And without any information
in their brochure, manual, or dealership, the customer is left without
knowing any conclusive answer.
The thing that gets me about this (and to tie it in with pop-ups) is the
tongue weight of a trailer. If that brand new 1500 Chevy in my previous post
has a CWR of 663 lbs., and a pop-up behind it has a tongue weight of 200
lbs., does that mean that brand new Chevy can only haul 463 lbs. before it
is overloaded (according to Chevy's CWR rating in it's glovebox)?
Something's fishy here. Anybody from Chevy's corporate headquarters wanna
weigh in on this?
Anyone?.... Anyone?...Beuhler?
--
Dave Morris
'86 Starcraft Starlite 21 SD
'97 Chevy 3500 Crew-cab 4x4
**********
Jim and Linda King
old Trailer Life article rating the then-new 2000 Suburban, they list:
GVWR: 7,200
GCWR: 14,000
Tow Rating: 8,800
Add 7,200 and 8,800 and you get 16,000-2,000 lbs. over the GCWR.
How many people out there towing trailers pay attention to the GCWR? They see
a tow rating of 8,800 lbs., and probably don't even think about what the tow
vehicle may weigh.
It just makes me wonder what percentage of folks are towing at way over their
GCWR!
Dave Gilmore
I think you must be on the same newsgroups I am. I have been
following your pursuit of your new hybrid.
I am not surprised that the GVWR and tow rating summed up exceed the
GCWR. As you know, the tow rating is based on an "empty" truck with
only one 150 lb driver. I also think that rule of thumb about being
at 75% of your tow rating is simply an easier way for most folks to
stay under the GAWR/GVWR/GCWR ratings without knowing about the actual
limits. Of course having said that, towing right at the GCWR probably
would not be very much fun, and definately would be stressing the
engine/drivetrain.
I am somewhat surprised that the GVWR of the Dave's vehicle is less
than the sum of the GAWRs. Of course GVWR would be limited by the
"weakest link", and maybe there is something else on that vehicle's
suspension that limits the GVWR.
I am also not all that suprised that Camping Life would push a camper
that weights too much for the vehicle (but I am dismayed). Their
sister publication "Trailer Life" seems to always review tow
vehicle/trailer combinations where the tow vehicle is inadequate to
the trailer attached to it.
I will be interested in hearing from an automobile engineer for an
explanation of this mysterious GCW.
Dave (and Mary)
Oxnard California
00 Ford F150
01 Cub 23 (yes, I live in the darkside)
Jim Redelfs
dgil...@rain.org (Dave Gilmore) wrote:
> Camping Life...Their sister publication "Trailer Life"
That's news to me, and I doubt it. Trailer Life magazine's "sister"
publication is "Motorhome". I am unaware of any affiliation between
Trailer Life and Camping Life.
TL Enterprises is a subsidiary of Affinity Group, Inc. Following is the
URL to Affinity Group's magazines and other publications.
<http://www.rv.net/magazines/index.cfm>
> "Trailer Life" seems to always review tow vehicle/trailer
> combinations where the tow vehicle is inadequate to
> the trailer attached to it.
I respectfully disagree. I have been a subscriber to Trailer Life
magazine for YEARS and have NEVER seen what you describe. Quite the
opposite, in fact. They are almost "anal" when it comes to ensuring
that their test lashups are properly matched. If anything, they have
ADDED ballast to a trailer to provide a near-max condition for the tow
vehicle being tested if the trailer is otherwise too lightweight.
Hey, Linda! While searching for a Camping Life web site (zippo), I
found the following URL. You should find it interesting, at least the
"No Sway" signs at the bottom of the page. It's Hensley's site. You
might have fun there if you're interested in their special/expensive
hitch.
<http://www.hensleymfg.com/campinglifearticle.htm>
:)
JR
Jim and Linda King
>that weights too much for the vehicle (but I am dismayed). Their
>sister publication "Trailer Life" seems to always review tow
>vehicle/trailer combinations where the tow vehicle is inadequate to
>the trailer attached to it.
Camping Life is independently owned - Trailer Life and Motorhome are owned by
that gigundous conglomerate of Good Sam/Woodalls-The Affinity Group, I believe
they are called.
Camping Life admitted in the article that if they loaded the trailer to its
max, it would be too heavy for the Suburban. However-I think it was probably
too heavy to start!
>I will be interested in hearing from an automobile engineer for an
>explanation of this mysterious GCW.
>
>Dave (and Mary)
>Oxnard California
>00 Ford F150
>01 Cub 23 (yes, I live in the darkside)
Wouldn't that be fun to hear from one of them?
How do you like your Cub? Tried looking at those too, but the dealer are too
far.
Jim and Linda King
>found the following URL. You should find it interesting, at least the
>"No Sway" signs at the bottom of the page. It's Hensley's site. You
>might have fun there if you're interested in their special/expensive
>hitch.
>
><http://www.hensleymfg.com/campinglifearticle.htm>
>
> :)
>JR
Thanks, JR, but already found it. That's how I got their sales pitch video.
Very interesting, actually. But I don't see that price coming down at all!
Dave Gilmore
originally purchased the Cub 16. After two years, we decided it was
too small for us, and decided to get something more roomy. I looked
at the other brands, but decided to stay with the Cub.
Only thing I miss with the 16 is it's a lot lighter and smaller
trailer than the 23, so it was easier to tow.
Dave and Mary
Oxnard California
00 Ford F150
01 Cub 23
love2...@cs.com (Jim and Linda King) wrote in message news:<20020112123440...@mb-ci.news.cs.com>...
Sam Woodson
Newsgroups: alt.rv.pop-up-trailers
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 3:54 PM
Subject: Chevy Suburban Tow Rating
> During my ongoing quest to replace our popup with a hybrid trailer, in
trying
> to find out the rear axle ratio of our Suburban (the sticker's worn off),
I
> called Chevy this morning. A very helpful lady looked up my vehicle, and
gave
> the following specs:
>
> 3.73 axle ratio
> 12,000 GCWR
> 7,215 GVWR of Suburban
> 5.7 litre Turbo engine
Turbo?
We had a 93 Suburban Silverado 4x4 with the 5.7 liter, but it didn't have a
turbo.
***********************************************
Sam Woodson
1984 Honda V-65 Magna 12.3 @ 110Mph
Columbus, Ohio
V65A...@Insight.RR.Com
http://www.angelfire.com/al/v65animal/index.html
My Photos http://community.webshots.com/user/v65animal1
Jim and Linda King
>
>We had a 93 Suburban Silverado 4x4 with the 5.7 liter, but it didn't have a
>turbo.
>
>***********************************************
>Sam Woodson
Hi Sam,
Thanks to those more "in the know" than I am, I believe we have figured out
that the "nice helpful lady" saw "TBI" (throttle body injection) and
misinterpreted it as turbo.