Coleman roof sag - another installment

[mjstraw+...@grove.iup.edu]

I promised to keep you all posted on my efforts to resolve roof sag on my
'97 Key West (w/ air conditioning), so here's another installment.

Last evening I dropped the camper off at a local dealer. Coleman has agreed
to install the latest and greatest internal brace. Dealer sez the work
should be done in a few days so we'll see if it really does the trick.

Of special note - on the dealer's lot I spotted a new/leftover '97 Sun Ridge.
12 foot box, no A/C. Roof sagging enough that gutters weren't working
(pooling, flowing over side). Sticker shows it was manufactured early
in the model year. My original and replacement roofs were both mid model
year.

Mark Strawcutter
Indiana PA

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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[Gordon Thomas]

Mark:

Thanks for keeping use all up to date on your Key West roof sag problem. I've
got a feeling that there a lot of folks who will be following in your foot
steps. I'm one of them. My Key West sag is enough that I've got gutter water
pooling above the door. I will be taking the unit into the dealers for the third
time on this issue on July 11. I sure hope they don't try some some line of BS.
So far they have been a great dealership and I can only hope the trend
continues. I'll keep you informed.

Gordon Thomas
Santa Rosa, CA

###################################################################

[mjstraw+...@grove.iup.edu]

> Thanks for keeping use all up to date on your Key West roof sag problem.

Are you sure I'm not being too self-righteous? :-)

[mjstraw+...@grove.iup.edu]

> I promised to keep you all posted on my efforts to resolve roof sag on my
> '97 Key West (w/ air conditioning), so here's another installment.
>
> Last evening I dropped the camper off at a local dealer. Coleman has agreed
> to install the latest and greatest internal brace. Dealer sez the work
> should be done in a few days so we'll see if it really does the trick.

Picked it up yesterday evening. The new brace appears to have helped the
side-to-side sag, but done nothing for the front-to-back sag which is keeping
the gutters from functioning properly.

My suspicion is that I'll continue to have water pooling and running over the
side. We're headed out shortly for a trip to New England. I'll post a
follow-up when we return.

Mark Strawcutter
Indiana PA

PS - Coleman did spring for a new tongue jack. It's rated at 800lbs (vs
500 original and 600 on the first replacement). Should made our trip more
pleasant.

[polq]

Greetings!

I have a couple questions for y'all. First. we're about ready to order a
Grandview SP and just want to make sure what the latest and greatest roof sag
fix is, like does Coleman have an info packet for dealers, does it now have
bolts or screws, etc. The local dealer knows nothing about a roof sag problem
or fix, so the more info I can hand them the better.

The other question is something I must have missed. Is there a problem with
the tongue jacks as normally installed? This would just be one more problem
that could be taken care of in advance (like the sink drain thing).

Thanks Much!!
Paul Q.
(just remove the z's)

In article <6oid7g$hkl$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, mjstraw+...@grove.iup.edu
says...

[PaulF]

First, if your dealer is telling you he knows nothing about the roof sag
problem, he is LYING ! (The brace to fix it is standard on 99 models).
I just bought a 98 SP and love it. (No sag yet, but no worries, its
warrantied to the original purchaser forever).
Second, funny you should mention the jack. I havent heard of a common
problem, but I was thinking that mine does not extend "down" far enough. Is
that what you mean?
See ya campin'
Paul

polq wrote in message <6ojb22$8...@examiner.concentric.net>...

[mjstraw+...@grove.iup.edu]

> I have a couple questions for y'all. First. we're about ready to order a
> Grandview SP and just want to make sure what the latest and greatest roof sag
> fix is, like does Coleman have an info packet for dealers, does it now have
> bolts or screws, etc.

I saw 2-3 '99s the other day. All had the "new and improved" roof brace
standard from the factory - just like the one they finished retro-installing
in my '97.

> The local dealer knows nothing about a roof sag problem
> or fix, so the more info I can hand them the better.

You need to find another dealer - this one is either lying or is terribly
out of touch with reality.

> The other question is something I must have missed. Is there a problem with
> the tongue jacks as normally installed? This would just be one more problem
> that could be taken care of in advance (like the sink drain thing).

'97 Key west. Kitchen and potti are front of axle. Front trunk has water
heater in it. Empty but wet (two full propane tanks and battery on tongue)
I had 375lb hitch weight. Loaded up it exceeds 400lbs. Good news is I don't
have any sway problem :-)

Added Reese mini-350 for it's weight-distributing characteristics. Hitching
up involves hooking up to the ball, then using the jack to lift the tongue
and back of van up so the "spring bars" can be attached.

The original jack was rated at 500lbs. Required two hands and all my
strength to turn. Coleman didn't think there was a problem, but in the
interest of "customer satisfaction" replaced it with what they claimed was
an 800lb jack. Only trouble, the sticker on it clearly said 600lbs. This
second jack was at least usable, but was starting to self-destruct.

I found it "interresting" that for '99 Coleman decided to use a true 800lb
rated jack. Since I was past the 1-year warranty for that component, I had
the dealer inquire about the cost of a replacement. I'm impressed that they
replaced it for free, but still mildly annoyed at their attitude when I
originally suggested there was a problem.

Mark Strawcutter
Indiana PA

[James Coviello]

I just bought a slightly(very) used '97 Westlake. Absolutely love this
thing. Camped for 20 years and this is the best yet.
I personally see no need for AC in a trailer that has zip out panels
over the entire upper body. But this is my option. I have (so far) not
seen any sort of sag on my rig.
And hopefully never will. Thanks to the other campers posting their
opinions, I know now what to avoid. No weight on the roof. period. Good
Luck to you!

From the flip side of racing
and Home of the NightHauler,

Jake
Coviello Racing

[Hal Wright]

The sagging roof problem may not be solved, but has been reduced, I think.  I say this because I own a '96 Santa Fe with the 10' box, and have the roof top AC (Won't go anywhere without it - we have heat and high humidity down here in La.).  My roof slightly dips, but it is not as bad as has been described by others.  Those that have had serious problems, requiring replacement, usually own the units with the 12's box.  The new 'fix' is a support bar running from side to side inside the ceiling.  But, mine already has the bar, and I experience the slight dip.  Since it is only slightly noticable (only when it is down), and doesn't affect the performance of the unit (It has great insulation and water proof qualities), I haven't felt the need to replace it.  I have not noticed anyone saying they have had to replace the roof more than once.  Just my 2 cents.

Happy Trails

"8-)  Hal

Keith wrote in message <35B4278C...@cris.com>...

 

polq wrote:

Greetings!

   I have a couple questions for y'all. First. we're about ready to order a
Grandview SP and just want to make sure what the latest and greatest roof sag
fix is, like does Coleman have an info packet for dealers, does it now have

bolts or screws, etc. The local dealer knows nothing about a roof sag problem

or fix, so the more info I can hand them the better.

My advice is to find another dealer.  If the folks you are dealing with really don't know about the problem or the fix then they are not a knowledgeable sales center and don't deserve your hard earned money.  If they do know about the problem and/or fix and are not telling you about it for fear of breaking a sale then they are a dishonest dealer and do not deserve your hard earned money!

                                                                                        -Keith B.
 

[BRIAN LIGHTBODY]

I figure I should put in my two cents here too.

The sagging roof problem hasn't been reduced that I am aware of. Coleman
keeps coming up with more improved lame improvements. I am sure the shorter
the box, the less of a problem it will be. I have the Westlake with the
13,500 BTU AC (a 12' box). My trailer is currently at the dealer where I am
forcing the issue on the second roof. My first roof had a bad sag in it,
but since the plastic developed hairline cracks around the roof bracket,
Coleman replaced it. At the time, I was hoping I just got a bad one the
first time. When I had told my dealer about the sag early on, he told me
that Coleman says up to 1" is normal. I accepted this answer until I
realized the dripping next to the door under the awning was because the sag
in the roof made the rain run off the side instead of the end. The rail for
the awning wasn't designed to take standing water on it.

Now my second roof is sagging so much I can't get the roof seal to seal in
the middle of the front and rear. My Coleman dealer told me he measured
1/8" gap today. Apparently I am the lucky winner to be Colemans guinea pig,
because they are going to put a second AC support on the roof to see if that
will help hold the shape better.
Coleman has gone through 4 revisions of the AC roof support, and if this
helps, I'm sure everyone else will start seeing it soon.

At this point in time, I can not recommend anyone buy a Coleman trailer. If
they happen to get this roof problem fixed, I probably would, because I do
really like the rest of the trailer.
Hal Wright wrote in message ...

[Jack Anderson]

BRIAN LIGHTBODY wrote in message
<6pp168$fb0c$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...

>I figure I should put in my two cents here too.
>
>The sagging roof problem hasn't been reduced that I am aware of. Coleman
>keeps coming up with more improved lame improvements. I am sure the
shorter
>the box, the less of a problem it will be. I have the Westlake with the
>13,500 BTU AC (a 12' box). My trailer is currently at the dealer where I
am
>forcing the issue on the second roof. My first roof had a bad sag in it,
>but since the plastic developed hairline cracks around the roof bracket,
>Coleman replaced it. At the time, I was hoping I just got a bad one the
>first time. When I had told my dealer about the sag early on, he told me
>that Coleman says up to 1" is normal. I accepted this answer until I
>realized the dripping next to the door under the awning was because the sag
>in the roof made the rain run off the side instead of the end. The rail
for
>the awning wasn't designed to take standing water on it.

I have no noticeable sag on my Grandview SP, but I did get the water
dripping by the door problem, both during heavy rain and sometimes during AC
use. I put a small bead of exterior caulk right where the awning rail meets
the roof. You can't even tell it's been caulked, but it solves the problem.
Just recently I did notice what appears to be very small hairline cracks in
the roof near the support bar bolts and metal plate - I'll keep an eye on
that.

>Now my second roof is sagging so much I can't get the roof seal to seal in
>the middle of the front and rear. My Coleman dealer told me he measured
>1/8" gap today. Apparently I am the lucky winner to be Colemans guinea
pig,
>because they are going to put a second AC support on the roof to see if
that
>will help hold the shape better.
>Coleman has gone through 4 revisions of the AC roof support, and if this
>helps, I'm sure everyone else will start seeing it soon.

I have this problem on the front of my unit. It is very difficult to get the
gasket to seal against the top of the box there.

>At this point in time, I can not recommend anyone buy a Coleman trailer.
If
>they happen to get this roof problem fixed, I probably would, because I do
>really like the rest of the trailer.

I guess The Good News is the lifetime warranty on the roof. I'm not too
worried about problems with it.

[mstr...@my-dejanews.com]

HI;

does anyone have an idea of what it would cost to get the brace/support
installed for out of warranty campers? I am the second owner of our Bayport;
sag seems to be very slight, but I may want to take the precaution of adding
it if doesn't cost too much.

Bill

[Hawk]

All,

One question. I have the Rio.. Large box Coleman... No AC... What is the
likelyhood of seeing the Sag problem on this unit without AC. I do have the
bike Racks and they are mounted forward of the Door.....

Also, any hints on how to get Coleman to put a higher capaicity Jack on the
Tongue... Mine is the 500 lber

Dave 1998 Coleman Rio

[Tommy]

Could you fellows explain a few things to me before I have a heart attack!
I have a Coleman Camper and I am about to install and AC unit on same. I
bought my Coleman Cheaspeake used and in great shape but I do not want to
screw it up if possible. What are you refering to when you talk about large
and small box? My Coleman is a 1996. Will I have this roof sag problem?

[n0...@uswest.net]

Don't know about the sag problem our 96 Key West is OK so far with Bike Rack.

Concerning the front jack - mine broke on the 2nd trip out. I went to a
Surplus Store and bought a new jack for $35.00 and it is rated for 800 lbs.
All I had to do to install it was remove the large snap ring on the Coleman
jack, remove the snap ring from the new jack while also removing the new
trailer mounting hardware, then taking the new jack installing it on the
Coleman using the large snap ring. Very easy job and my Coleman Dealer
reimbursed me for the cost. Hope this helps.

N0TRB - Neil - 96 Key West.

In article <35C0AF60...@ix.netcom.com>,
dav...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>
> All,

>
> One question. I have the Rio.. Large box Coleman... No AC... What is the
> likelyhood of seeing the Sag problem on this unit without AC. I do have the
> bike Racks and they are mounted forward of the Door.....
>
> Also, any hints on how to get Coleman to put a higher capaicity Jack on the
> Tongue... Mine is the 500 lber
>
> Dave 1998 Coleman Rio
>
>

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----

[Hal Wright]

Dave:
From the posts I have read, it would seem the AC weight is accelerating the
sag. You probably should not have a real problem. As I have posted, I have
the 10' box with AC, and while I have the slight 'dip', it is not as severe
as others have experienced. I think the shorter roof is the reason.
"8-) Hal

[Doug @ Lori]

We are bringing in our 1998 Sunridge for a new roof. We do not have AC and
have never placed anything on the roof. The roof has sagged enough to keep
the seal from closing in the front and left side. I hope the new support
bar will take care of the problem.

Hal Wright <halw...@email.msn.com> wrote in article
<ucGDmN2u9GA.158@upnetnews05>...

----------

[BRIAN LIGHTBODY]

Jack Anderson wrote in message <6ppseh$n3i$1...@kronos.crosslink.net>...

>I have no noticeable sag on my Grandview SP, but I did get the water
>dripping by the door problem, both during heavy rain and sometimes during
AC
>use. I put a small bead of exterior caulk right where the awning rail meets
>the roof. You can't even tell it's been caulked, but it solves the problem.
>Just recently I did notice what appears to be very small hairline cracks in
>the roof near the support bar bolts and metal plate - I'll keep an eye on
>that.

You should take it in to get it replaced. There is no question that they
will replace it with the cracks. What size is your air conditioner? The
roof seems to be able to handle the smaller ones without too much trouble.
If you are having trouble getting the front of the box to seal, there is sag
in your roof. Hopefully it is not real bad yet, but I'm sure it will only
get worse.

>I guess The Good News is the lifetime warranty on the roof. I'm not too
>worried about problems with it.

I hope you don't ever decide you want to sell it. Do you think with the
word on these roof problems getting out anybody will want to buy your
trailer? Remember that the warranties only apply to the ORIGINAL owner.
The other thing that bothers me is that after the first year, we get to
start paying for the freight to the dealers (I'm sure a pretty penny for
something that big).

[BRIAN LIGHTBODY]

Tommy wrote in message <6pqies$m...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...

>Could you fellows explain a few things to me before I have a heart attack!
>I have a Coleman Camper and I am about to install and AC unit on same. I
>bought my Coleman Cheaspeake used and in great shape but I do not want to
>screw it up if possible. What are you refering to when you talk about
large
>and small box?

I think the small box is the 10' long box, and the large is the 12' long
box.

>My Coleman is a 1996. Will I have this roof sag problem?

I am an engineer and had a fairly informative talk with Coleman's head
engineer for the roof today. With what I have been able to find out, if I
was in your shoes, I would not think of putting an AC of any size on there.
In fact if I were you, I would be praying that I happened to get a roof that
was manufactured on a day that had good weather for these roofs
manufacturing processes.

[RoseAl]

This roof sag issue is a huge problem for me. I agree that it does limit us
should we decide to resell since the warrenty does not transfer to new owners.
I would really like a permanent fix, not just a "try this" fix.

I took our Sea Pine into the dealer in June. It took a few weeks but all of
the warrenty work was done well (roof discussion later). On our very first
camping trip we used our "built in drawer" cooler to chill down a watermelon.
The temp outside was about 100 degrees...inside with our A/C about 78 degrees.
The drawer sweat like crazy leaving pools of water in the camper, swelling the
drawer and when I went to open the drawer the veneer on the cabinet pulled off
due to the swelling and the drawer sticking. The dealer replace all of the
related cabinetry and we got the newly designed drawer (which I still don't
think I will use as a cooler). I was very pleased that the cabinetry was
replaced. That was nice attention to detail.

The roof is another matter. The dealer installed the latest and the greatest
roof bracket fix---but I did not get a new roof. Why do you think some of you
are getting new roofs and some are not? Just curious.... There is still a
slight dip in the roof and water accumulates in the gutters near the center
rather than rolling off as it should.

I suspect if the roof never sagged any worse than it does now that I could live
with it--unfortunately, I'll be anticipating the worst...just waiting for it to
drop. Won't the next few years be a joy! I am so disappointed. We waited
years before we bought a brand spankin' new pop-up and we even paid extra to
have a fine Coleman camper. Now I get to live with this feeling of dred.

It is interesting to read that the engineers are beginning to suspect
temperature and humidity during processing. Perhaps with this knowledge they
can control the process parameters and the result will be great roofs for
everyone....allthough I still think some internal supports couldn't hurt! I
hope someday I can expect to get a new roof that has no potential for sagging.

Jayco is also offering a one piece roof. Can someone discuss the differences
in this roof as compared to the Coleman? What assurances does Jayco offer that
the roof will not sag?

the Gateway Mama (formerly CornQueen)
1997 Coleman Sea Pine
St. Louis, MO (formerly Fort Dodge, IA)

[BRIAN LIGHTBODY]

RoseAl wrote in message <199808011448...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...

>The roof is another matter. The dealer installed the latest and the
greatest
>roof bracket fix---but I did not get a new roof. Why do you think some of
you
>are getting new roofs and some are not? Just curious.... There is still a
>slight dip in the roof and water accumulates in the gutters near the center
>rather than rolling off as it should.

I have been told by Coleman that a sag of 3/4" is acceptable. My roof
currently has the "acceptable" 3/4" sag, but it has a 1/8" gap in the seal
at the front and back. The bottom line is that Coleman won't replace it
unless they absolutely have to.

>I suspect if the roof never sagged any worse than it does now that I could
live
>with it--unfortunately, I'll be anticipating the worst...just waiting for
it to
>drop. Won't the next few years be a joy! I am so disappointed. We waited
>years before we bought a brand spankin' new pop-up and we even paid extra
to
>have a fine Coleman camper. Now I get to live with this feeling of dred.
>

I feel the same way. We also paid more for our Coleman because I was duped
into believing everything was better than the others. Right now I am so
pissed at Coleman, I can't see straight.

>It is interesting to read that the engineers are beginning to suspect
>temperature and humidity during processing. Perhaps with this knowledge
they
>can control the process parameters and the result will be great roofs for
>everyone....allthough I still think some internal supports couldn't hurt!
I
>hope someday I can expect to get a new roof that has no potential for
sagging.

I talked with Coleman's head engineer for the roofs, and they are expecting
to have a new roof design in production in a couple of months. I'm told the
new roof plant IS temperature and humidity controlled. He described the
changes in the design, and as an engineer myself, I am still seriously
concerned that the new design won't work either. They changed the shape and
the process, but there is still no additional supports. I also asked what
the allowable sag was for the new roof. He told me it was nothing.
Interesting that the current roofs are allowed to have up to 3/4" sag, but
the new ones aren't.

>Jayco is also offering a one piece roof. Can someone discuss the
differences
>in this roof as compared to the Coleman? What assurances does Jayco offer
that
>the roof will not sag?

I don't know anything about the Jayco roofs.

[polq]

Greeting!
Concerning the roof sag issue, it seems to be caused primarily by the a/c.
What I was wondering is, how difficult it is to remove it from the roof off
season, seal the hole and put it back the next year, maybe even stuff
something under the roof while it's off to counteract the sag? If it's a real
pain it might not be worth it, but it would likely really slow down the
sagging process.

Happy Campin' and God Bless!!
Paul Q.

[Hal Wright]

Brian -
You make some excellent points. I have not felt I had to replace mine, but
I now wonder if the problem I am experiencing is due to the slight sag:
after lowering the roof, I find that one corner in the front, always needs
to be pushed down, quite severely, in order to engage the hold-downs. What
do you think?

I have the 10' box with a 1300 BTU unit on top.
"8-) Hal

BRIAN LIGHTBODY wrote in message

<6pug87$c85i$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...

[Hal Wright]

Rose:
This is interesting. Did you have the inside support bar when you bought
the trailer? Mine did, and it was a '96 purchased in '95. So I am confused
as to whether mine has the 'fix' or not. I was looking at new ones
yesterday, with my brother, and he decided on a model called the Santee. It
is in the Destiny series but is identical in size to my Santa Fe, just
doesn't have the ABS roof. I figure he may be better off. The ABS would
seem (to me) to have superior insulation qualities over the older designs
(and it makes a 'plinking' sound when rain drops hit it, mimicking the sound
of a tiddly wink - you young'uns out there probably don't know what
'Tiddlywinks' is! <grin>).

I have a slight dip but no cracks. As to the pooling, I always elevate the
front maybe an inch or two higher than the rear, thus the condensation
always runs off the back. I therefore have never had the problem regarding
that.

I echo your lament that you waited only to be stuck with this. On the other
hand, if you keep it, you won't have to worry much about having it replaced,
except for the darned inconvenience. The dip has not affected me or my
enjoyment of the trailer and I have made over 25 trips so far. This problem
would seem to be Jayco/Starcraft's chance to move ahead of Fleetwood in the
Coke/Pepsi/Dr. Pepper type of race. After the experience I had dealing with
Fleetwood reps on a rusting door, I am rethinking my opinion of the company,
but in fairness, every report I have seen has been complimentary about their
warranty. My dealer is super nice and helpful, so I feel good.

Is Jayco coming out with the ABS roof too? hmmm.
"8-) Hal

RoseAl wrote in message <199808011448...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...

>This roof sag issue is a huge problem for me. I agree that it does limit
us
>should we decide to resell since the warrenty does not transfer to new
owners.
>I would really like a permanent fix, not just a "try this" fix.

~snip~

>The roof is another matter. The dealer installed the latest and the
greatest
>roof bracket fix---but I did not get a new roof. Why do you think some of
you
>are getting new roofs and some are not? Just curious.... There is still a
>slight dip in the roof and water accumulates in the gutters near the center
>rather than rolling off as it should.

~snip~

>I suspect if the roof never sagged any worse than it does now that I could
live
>with it--unfortunately, I'll be anticipating the worst...just waiting for
it to
>drop. Won't the next few years be a joy! I am so disappointed. We waited
>years before we bought a brand spankin' new pop-up and we even paid extra
to
>have a fine Coleman camper. Now I get to live with this feeling of dred.
>

>It is interesting to read that the engineers are beginning to suspect
>temperature and humidity during processing. Perhaps with this knowledge
they
>can control the process parameters and the result will be great roofs for
>everyone....allthough I still think some internal supports couldn't hurt!
I
>hope someday I can expect to get a new roof that has no potential for
sagging.
>

>Jayco is also offering a one piece roof. Can someone discuss the
differences
>in this roof as compared to the Coleman? What assurances does Jayco offer
that
>the roof will not sag?
>

[Hal Wright]

I suppose it might prove to be of merit to someone, but I am of the
persuasion that the more you fool with things, the more likely something
else will get screwed up. I suppose it would depend on how much trouble.
What do you do to protect the trailer from the elements when the AC is
removed?
"8-) hal

^snip^

[Hal Wright]

Tommy:
The box refers to the dimensions of the main body of the trailer, exclusive
of the bed slide outs. My model has the 10' box, your unit is in the next
higher class in the line. Since Brian brought out the fact that the
life-time warranty does not cover transfers of ownership, you may consider
selling it. Can you live without AC? I cant.
"8-) Hal

>Tommy wrote in message <6pqies$m...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...

^snip^

>What are you refering to when you talk about large and small box?<

[RoseAl]

Hal...when we bought our unit we had an a/c installed by the dealer. He did
put an internal support bar in at that time--however over the winter one end of
the support bar pulled out of the roof. We discovered it when we opened the
unit up this spring. The new bar is actually attached with bolts going through
the roof. A metal plate and bolt ends are visible from the outside of the roof
on the "new" fix.

Like you, we also store our trailer with one end lower than the other so that
any rain runs off--however we just relocated and during the process we had our
trailer fairly level, it had rained and I noticed the build-up of water.

My husband is thinking about building some kind of internal support to keep in
the camper while it is being stored--to equalize the weight of the air
conditioner. We'll see what he comes up with and if it helps.....

the Gateway Mama

[BRIAN LIGHTBODY]

Hal Wright wrote in message ...

>Brian -
>You make some excellent points. I have not felt I had to replace mine, but
>I now wonder if the problem I am experiencing is due to the slight sag:
>after lowering the roof, I find that one corner in the front, always needs
>to be pushed down, quite severely, in order to engage the hold-downs. What
>do you think?
>
>I have the 10' box with a 1300 BTU unit on top.
>"8-) Hal

If yours is like mine, it is the driver side front corner. I doubt if
Coleman will be willing to replace the roof without some other problems. I
would watch carefully that it seals in the front and back centers. I use a
credit card to try to slide in between the box and roof. Remember too that
this plastic roof will deform both ways. Check it as soon as you put it
down, because if you leave it clamped down for a few days, you will be able
to get it to seal if it wouldn't before. I took mine to my dealer after I
had it clamped down for a few days, and he re-adjusted the clamps and said
it was fine. After I blew up at him, he decided to have me leave it with
them for a few days to recreate the problem. They did recreate it and got a
1/8" gap in it.

I noticed another of your posts you mentioned tilting the trailer to get the
water to run off. If you have the refrigerator in yours, you want to be
careful putting too much tilt in the trailer while it is cooling. I have
read that it could permanently damage the refrigerator cooling capability,
and eventually ruin it.

I have the Westlake with the 12' box and 13500 BTU AC, so my sag shows up
quicker and worse than yours.

[mjstraw+...@grove.iup.edu]

> I figure I should put in my two cents here too.

Greetings from a fellow member of the CRSS (Coleman Roof Sag Society)...

> The sagging roof problem hasn't been reduced that I am aware of. Coleman
> keeps coming up with more improved lame improvements. I am sure the shorter
> the box, the less of a problem it will be. I have the Westlake with the
> 13,500 BTU AC (a 12' box).

This continues to be my evaluation, too. The latest and greatest internal
brace did help with the side-to-side sag but had zero effect on front-to-back
sag. At least now the foam center support blocks for the yakima bars touch
the bars - before the rear (center) one was at least an inch below the bar.

> My trailer is currently at the dealer where I am
> forcing the issue on the second roof. My first roof had a bad sag in it,
> but since the plastic developed hairline cracks around the roof bracket,
> Coleman replaced it. At the time, I was hoping I just got a bad one the
> first time.

Ditto. My dealer ordered a replacement roof before we even took delivery
due to the sides bulging out. I, too, hoped the first one was just a fluke.
No such luck.

> When I had told my dealer about the sag early on, he told me
> that Coleman says up to 1" is normal. I accepted this answer until I
> realized the dripping next to the door under the awning was because the sag
> in the roof made the rain run off the side instead of the end. The rail for
> the awning wasn't designed to take standing water on it.

Since the gutters are less than 1" deep, they are trying to get us to believe
that sag sufficient to render the gutters non-functional is "normal". Hmmm.

> Now my second roof is sagging so much I can't get the roof seal to seal in
> the middle of the front and rear. My Coleman dealer told me he measured
> 1/8" gap today. Apparently I am the lucky winner to be Colemans guinea pig,
> because they are going to put a second AC support on the roof to see if that
> will help hold the shape better.

This is caused by front-to-back sag, not side-to-side. As it continues,
we're seeing this problem too. Front is worse. Just back from 2 weeks in
Maine. Traveling thru a couple of good rain storms we had water infiltration
in front center. Fortunately, the "sweep gasket" under the bed kept it out
of the camper.

> Coleman has gone through 4 revisions of the AC roof support, and if this
> helps, I'm sure everyone else will start seeing it soon.

And at least one modification to how the A/C hole is cut. I hope this next
fix works, but don't hold your breath.

> At this point in time, I can not recommend anyone buy a Coleman trailer. If
> they happen to get this roof problem fixed, I probably would, because I do
> really like the rest of the trailer.

I'd still recommend Coleman if you keep the roof bare. Totally empty.
No A/C. No bike racks. Nothing.

Mark Strawcutter
Indiana PA
'97 Coleman Key West

[greg_s...@my-dejanews.com]

In article <6puhjq$7tl6$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,

"BRIAN LIGHTBODY" <BLI...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> Tommy wrote in message <6pqies$m...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...

> >Could you fellows explain a few things to me before I have a heart attack!
> >I have a Coleman Camper and I am about to install and AC unit on same. I
> >bought my Coleman Cheaspeake used and in great shape but I do not want to

> >screw it up if possible. What are you refering to when you talk about

> large
> >and small box?
>
> I think the small box is the 10' long box, and the large is the 12' long
> box.
>
> >My Coleman is a 1996. Will I have this roof sag problem?
>
> I am an engineer and had a fairly informative talk with Coleman's head
> engineer for the roof today. With what I have been able to find out, if I
> was in your shoes, I would not think of putting an AC of any size on there.
> In fact if I were you, I would be praying that I happened to get a roof that
> was manufactured on a day that had good weather for these roofs
> manufacturing processes.
>
>

I have a 97 Santa Fe, The roof sags and flattens depending on the day.
Recently I was looking at the new Colemans, they all come witht he roof
support now, supposed to be in case you want to add the A/C unit. The first
time I heard of a munufacturer adding something just in case. More likely it
is to combat the sagging problem.

Greg

[greg_s...@my-dejanews.com]

In article <el5m5viv9GA.230@upnetnews05>,

"Hal Wright" <halw...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> Brian -
> You make some excellent points. I have not felt I had to replace mine, but
> I now wonder if the problem I am experiencing is due to the slight sag:
> after lowering the roof, I find that one corner in the front, always needs
> to be pushed down, quite severely, in order to engage the hold-downs. What
> do you think?
>
> I have the 10' box with a 1300 BTU unit on top.
> "8-) Hal

This doesn't directly answer the question here but I was looking over the new
models in Toronto, Canada. I commented on the presence of the roof brace. I
was told in was there in case any owner wants to install an A/C unit. It's
the first time I heard of a manufacturer installing sometihing just in case.
I have a 97 Santa fe and the roof sags and flattens out depending on the
temperature. I also have to push down the rear corners to latch the roof
down.

[Jack Anderson]

Though this sounds like, and probably is, spin from Coleman, but it does
make sense to put the braces on under controlled conditions at the factory.
This also ensures that the process is consistent - when done at the dealer
it's possible that different dealers might do things differently, make
mistakes, put the brace in the wrong spot, ruin a roof accidentally by
tightening the screws too tight, etc., etc., etc.

[BRIAN LIGHTBODY]

Jack Anderson wrote in message <6q5c91$id7$1...@kronos.crosslink.net>...

>Though this sounds like, and probably is, spin from Coleman, but it does
>make sense to put the braces on under controlled conditions at the factory.
>This also ensures that the process is consistent - when done at the dealer
>it's possible that different dealers might do things differently, make
>mistakes, put the brace in the wrong spot, ruin a roof accidentally by
>tightening the screws too tight, etc., etc., etc.

You are right, it does sound like what I have been hearing all too much from
Coleman the last few days. "We aren't some fly by night outfit", "don't
worry", "we will take care of it", "there are lots of people that don't have
a problem", "you have a lifetime warranty on the roof", ....... There is
some merit to having more control over the bracket installation, but I
believe it is just another lame fix so they can claim they are really trying
to take good care of their customers. And I think it is just something else
they can put in their brochures to mislead the unsuspecting customer that
thinks they are their fathers Coleman. Reality is that installing the brace
at the factory doesn't do anything for the roof sag and I have talked to
numerous people at Coleman that will admit it.

[M. Monninger]

In article <6q6248$5t6u$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, "BRIAN LIGHTBODY"

<BLI...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>You are right, it does sound like what I have been hearing all too much from
>Coleman the last few days. "We aren't some fly by night outfit", "don't
>worry", "we will take care of it", "there are lots of people that don't have
>a problem", "you have a lifetime warranty on the roof", .......

> ...

A lifetime warranty to the original owner. That doesn't help those of us who
bought one used. If it's that good, why isn't the warranty transferrable? I
can maybe understand it for limited time warranties but why isn't a lifetime
warranty transferrable?

My (used) 97 Sunridge has noticable roof sag but it varies quite a bit
depending on temperature. It expands 2 or 3 inches front-to-back and 1 or 2
side-to-side. That's here in the Phoenix area where it gets pretty hot. When
it's cool (< 90), it seems to fit OK, at least the seals are OK, it still
seems to sag a bit. I don't have A/C on mine, either.

Mark

[Ivan Therrien]

Just a thought,

If Coleman is having so much trouble with roof sag with this new roof
material - why don't they go back to the old standby of a two piece
aluminum roof. Why did they change the roof material? What are the
pros and cons?

[Tommy]

I just got off of the phone with my local Coleman dealer and one of the
techs at Camping World. As it turns out, I have a two piece aluminum top on
my 95 Coleman Chesapeake. The guy I bought the camper from told me that it
was a 96. The dealer and tech told me that there are no problems installing
an AC unit on the aluminum roofs. The problem comes into play with the ABS
roofs. They admitted that they should have tested the tops in Florida. The
number one vacation site in the United States! Has anyone installed the AC
unit from Camping World themselves!? It turns out that I need a 175 dollar
bracket which would cost 49 bucks to install and another 18.50 to cut the
hole in the roof. Wow...sure would like to save some of that money for
camping fees!

Ivan Therrien wrote in message <35C724...@mail.idt.net>...

[Hal Wright]

After reading numerous posts regarding this issue, it began to sink in to my
brain that people were saying the roof would not seal in the center, fore
and aft. I never saw this happening to mine. Other than the dip, I thought
mine was immune. Today I went outside and looked more closely, and voila. .
. I now think I see what everyone is talking about. The rubber seal hides
the crack that exists between the top and the bottom (or box). When you
push back the seal you see a sepration between the top and the box of about
1/2 inch. The seal also protrudes over the lip of the box in the center,
both fore and aft.

I don't know if this is really a problem. The rubber gasket seal seems to
cover the gap, but it is not airtight. I have never had any water leakage,
but I will be more observant.

Something else I have observed from posts: Even when AC is not installed,
the roof problem persists. Perhaps the heat is the element causing the
problem. Maybe weight is not the sole factor. I wonder if storage indoors
would prevent the problem.

Oh well, I have not yet received my door, so . . . . I guess I will be
ordering a roof.

"8-( Hal
Tommy wrote in message <6q7m1i$8...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...

[mjstraw+...@grove.iup.edu]

> . I now think I see what everyone is talking about. The rubber seal hides
> the crack that exists between the top and the bottom (or box). When you
> push back the seal you see a sepration between the top and the box of about
> 1/2 inch.

If I understand you correctly, this is not a problem. It's what the gasket
is designed to bridge and seal. However, if the sag were severe enough,
I could imagine the roof and box touching (complete gasket compression) in
the center of the side then getting progressively further apart toward the
front/back to the point where the gasket could no longer bridge the gap.

> The seal also protrudes over the lip of the box in the center,
> both fore and aft.

Bingo! If the outside edge of the gasket protrudes, no problem. But once
the "overbite" exceeds the depth of the gasket - you now have a nice opening
for water to enter. Like when driving down the road in a rainstorm. If I
have the geometry figured out correctly, this is a side-effect of the sag.

Mark Strawcutter
Indiana PA
'97 Coleman Key West

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----

[UF1]

Tommy wrote:
>
> I just got off of the phone with my local Coleman dealer and one of the
> techs at Camping World. As it turns out, I have a two piece aluminum top on
> my 95 Coleman Chesapeake. The guy I bought the camper from told me that it
> was a 96. The dealer and tech told me that there are no problems installing
> an AC unit on the aluminum roofs. The problem comes into play with the ABS
> roofs. They admitted that they should have tested the tops in Florida. The
> number one vacation site in the United States! Has anyone installed the AC
> unit from Camping World themselves!? It turns out that I need a 175 dollar
> bracket which would cost 49 bucks to install and another 18.50 to cut the
> hole in the roof. Wow...sure would like to save some of that money for
> camping fees!

I never installed one in a Pop-up but I did in a conversion van. I
bought the unit at Camping World and did the work myself. The
installation
instructions are easy to follow and are included with the unit.
Only takes an hour or so to do the job right. The most "painful" part
of the job is getting the nerve to cut the 14"x14" hole in the roof!
Once that is done the A/C is set on the roof. Next you go inside and
install the clamping bracket (4 or 5 bolts). Pop-ups don't use any
fancy wiring. A heavy gauge 3 conductor cable is wired to the A/C and
run along the ceiling (along the roof brace) to the nearest wall.
The cord is left unplugged and coiled up when not in use. Simply
uncoil the cable and plug it into the camper's interior outlet.
To finish the installation, the air diffuser is put into place
along with a trim piece. It really is a simple job and anyone
with the slightest amount of mechanical skill shouldn't have
any problems.

I remember a few years ago when everyone was quick to praise
the new one piece plastic rooves while also pointing out
the aluminum ones were two piece and "could" leak. To date,
I never met anyone that has seen one of the aluminum models
leak. Now look at the daily complaints of sagging plastic
rooves! I think you'll be very pleased with your "inferior"
metal roof. ;-)

Robert
'95 Coleman Royale

[gail]

Tommy wrote:

>I have a two piece aluminum top on my 95 Coleman Chesapeake. Has anyone

>installed the AC unit from Camping World themselves!?

>>I never installed one in a Pop-up but I did in a conversion van. I bought

>>the unit at Camping World and did the work myself.

>>Only takes an hour or so to do the job right. The most "painful" part of
>>the job is getting the nerve to cut the 14"x14" hole in the roof!

It is my understanding that Coleman changed the procedure to cutting two
smaller holes in the roof rather than one 14"x14" hole for the ABS roofs.
Wouldn't using that procedure on the metal roofed Colemans add a safety
factor?

Gail - in the Great Pacific Northwest