Conclusion
Ilya Shambat
the soul. The Christian and Kantian belief is that such things are
unknowable; I believe that is hogwash. They may be unknowable through
rational inquiry, but they can be known by being accepted and
experienced, which is what I am doing with all the world's major
religions and all of the feelings that exist. In the mystical
experiences I had, I had to suspend disbelief, and then incredible
things have happened. I was taken to jewels, pure jewels, of talent
and love and beauty around America. I love them all.
I am sorry for the world, J. I am so sorry for what happened to you -
for what was done to you. I am sorry for what those men did to you. On
behalf of all mankind, I am sorry. I told her on the phone that I
wanted to call the man she is with and tell him to treat her gently
and be loving to her. She said, "You love me this much, yes?" When all
the stupid distracting voices are gone, this is what I have. Love and
pain. All else are illusions.
I don't care about psychology. I don't care about religion. The love
that I feel in my heart is all that I am. She says I should not love
her more than I love God. She is a reality; God is an illusion. And
love, dammit, is a reality too. Or else I would not be feeling what I
am feeling right now.
You can't tell me that stupid psychoanalytical crap any more. I know
what I know. Scott the poet said that the metaphor for civilization
was expropriating the lifeblood of eros to power the economic
mechanism, and what an absurdity is that? What this does is portray
emotion as thing to be exploited rather than shared. I studied
economics. I partook of the global economy. But what is the premise of
economics? That it is the rational thing to consume. It is not.
Doctor Zhivago was described, after being with the woman he loved, as
having let himself go. I know why Pasternak would say this. Pasternak
was a brilliant man, and he understood that it is not wise to
rationalize one's way out of one's feelings. Rather it is important to
feel them. Be one with them. And let them take one around the world.
Do feelings run a script? C.S. Lewis, after spending his lifetime
preaching Christian doctrine, fell in love and found all his answers
missing, lacking, inadequate. Sandy, the black poetess, was found in
the hospital being yelled at by nurses for daring to have real
passion. I wrote her a poem and placed it on the bed with flowers next
to her. Yes, I wanted to make it up to her too.
I understand why those women put up with abuse. It is incredible what
one can survive if one has love inside them. She taught me real love.
I will never forget it. I will just feel it.
I am a truth seeker. And I found the truth I have sought in my love
for this woman. C. S. Lewis said that the Christian perspective is
that if feelings exist in the human being then there must be a way to
fulfil them, and the feelings of absolute passion that exist in the
human soul must be meant for heaven. No, they mustn't. They are meant
for romantic love here on earth. They are meant as an imprint of
paradise to exist here.
I am broken, and I am free. I am now a lot like Layo. Lisbeth said
that she often felt like the lowest thing on earth, and I suppose that
this kind of thing brings one down. Rationality is a cask, an escape.
Michele said that love was chemicals, then she admitted she said this
in order to not feel depressed about losing the man she had loved. The
Elizabeth script is that the lover betrays the woman. The woman I love
comes from the lineage of Queen Elizabeth. And now, she has been
healed. She is with the man who loves her like I love her and can take
care of her. I can't. I can't give her what she needs. But I can still
love her.
Dull, raw pain. And passion, pure passion. This is the reality I have
sought. This is far more real than anything else. You can knock me
over the head now with a two-by-four and I won't feel a thing. I don't
care any longer about survival, about heaven, about having a woman,
about anything. What I found is the truth I have sought for. What I
found is the truth of life. Itself.
I will not escape from pain. If pain is what I am about then I will be
that. The man in San Francisco said that the woman is the giver of
lies, but this woman is the giver of truth. And I love her.
And as Charlie Chaplin said, now, Smile.
catb...@fwiw.com
says...
>
>Thomas Edison said that science was going to discover the secrets of
>the soul. The Christian and Kantian belief is that such things are
>unknowable; I believe that is hogwash. They may be unknowable through
>rational inquiry, but they can be known by being accepted and
>experienced, which is what I am doing with all the world's major
>religions and all of the feelings that exist. In the mystical
>experiences I had, I had to suspend disbelief, and then incredible
>things have happened. I was taken to jewels, pure jewels, of talent
>and love and beauty around America. I love them all.
But have you tied your camel securely to the tree? (A refernce to the Sufi Book
of Wisdom).
>I am sorry for the world, J. I am so sorry for what happened to you -
>for what was done to you. I am sorry for what those men did to you. On
>behalf of all mankind, I am sorry. I told her on the phone that I
>wanted to call the man she is with and tell him to treat her gently
>and be loving to her. She said, "You love me this much, yes?" When all
>the stupid distracting voices are gone, this is what I have. Love and
>pain. All else are illusions.
"Many have been led astray by their speculations,
and false conjectures have impaired their judgement."
(Ecclesiasticus 3:24)
>I don't care about psychology. I don't care about religion. The love
>that I feel in my heart is all that I am. She says I should not love
>her more than I love God.
How convenient. When has it not been easier to love an abstraction than a flesh
and blood human being?
> She is a reality; God is an illusion. And
>love, dammit, is a reality too. Or else I would not be feeling what I
>am feeling right now.
The plains Indians thought "love" a form of temporary mental illness -
particular to adolescents.
>You can't tell me that stupid psychoanalytical crap any more. I know
>what I know.
And what do we know? We know what we feel and that is all.
>Scott the poet said that the metaphor for civilization
>was expropriating the lifeblood of eros to power the economic
>mechanism, and what an absurdity is that? What this does is portray
>emotion as thing to be exploited rather than shared. I studied
>economics. I partook of the global economy. But what is the premise of
>economics? That it is the rational thing to consume. It is not.
Look closely at Nature. It feeds upon itself constantly. All of Nature
"consumes".
Try living on air alone.
>Doctor Zhivago was described, after being with the woman he loved, as
>having let himself go. I know why Pasternak would say this. Pasternak
>was a brilliant man, and he understood that it is not wise to
>rationalize one's way out of one's feelings. Rather it is important to
>feel them. Be one with them. And let them take one around the world.
I think Zhivago is misunderstood by almost everyone.
>Do feelings run a script? C.S. Lewis, after spending his lifetime
>preaching Christian doctrine, fell in love and found all his answers
>missing, lacking, inadequate. Sandy, the black poetess, was found in
>the hospital being yelled at by nurses for daring to have real
>passion. I wrote her a poem and placed it on the bed with flowers next
>to her. Yes, I wanted to make it up to her too.
>
>I understand why those women put up with abuse. It is incredible what
>one can survive if one has love inside them. She taught me real love.
Martyrdom isn't for everyone. I do not intend to die for passion's sake.
>I will never forget it. I will just feel it.
Perhaps you have forgotten the story of the the weeping woman and the Buddha on
the road to the great city?
Do you wish to weep forever?
>I am a truth seeker. And I found the truth I have sought in my love
>for this woman. C. S. Lewis said that the Christian perspective is
>that if feelings exist in the human being then there must be a way to
>fulfil them, and the feelings of absolute passion that exist in the
>human soul must be meant for heaven. No, they mustn't. They are meant
>for romantic love here on earth. They are meant as an imprint of
>paradise to exist here.
Paradise is an ephemeal moment. It cannot be grasped and held.
Once, in a blissful moment that is with me always, I spoke softly to a man with
whom I was deeply in love, beneath the palms, and the wind chimes
sang like wedding bells at the moment of our kiss. But those bells are lost
forever in the cruelty of time. And I can never get that moment back again.
We are allowed these perfect moments. But they do not last. They are the
mourning chants of innocence lost, again and again.
Until there is no innocence left.
Until it has been poured out and soaks into the sand at our feed.
>I am broken, and I am free. I am now a lot like Layo. Lisbeth said
>that she often felt like the lowest thing on earth, and I suppose that
>this kind of thing brings one down. Rationality is a cask, an escape.
>Michele said that love was chemicals, then she admitted she said this
>in order to not feel depressed about losing the man she had loved. The
>Elizabeth script is that the lover betrays the woman. The woman I love
>comes from the lineage of Queen Elizabeth. And now, she has been
>healed. She is with the man who loves her like I love her and can take
>care of her. I can't. I can't give her what she needs. But I can still
>love her.
>
>Dull, raw pain. And passion, pure passion. This is the reality I have
>sought. This is far more real than anything else. You can knock me
>over the head now with a two-by-four and I won't feel a thing. I don't
>care any longer about survival, about heaven, about having a woman,
>about anything. What I found is the truth I have sought for. What I
>found is the truth of life. Itself.
>
>I will not escape from pain. If pain is what I am about then I will be
>that. The man in San Francisco said that the woman is the giver of
>lies, but this woman is the giver of truth. And I love her.
>
>And as Charlie Chaplin said, now, Smile.
Sigh. Poor Ilya. Once in every persons life, they should have their guts ripped
out by love.
Cat
PS/ soc.singles removed, for decencies sake.
Nutmegger
"Ilya Shambat" wrote:::
> Thomas Edison said that science was going to discover >the secrets of the
soul.
I think quantum physics will have something in store for us.
> I am sorry for the world, J.
It's ok, the world is the way it is.
<I know you didn't really mean me> ;-)
> I told her on the phone that I wanted to call the man she >is with
Don't call him, it is not right.
> Love and pain. All else are illusions.
Love & pain can be illusions too, it's the feelings that make them real to
you.
> I don't care about psychology.
Since when?
>I don't care about religion.
You never did.
> She says I should not love
> her more than I love God.
She is not you.
Her relationship with God, is totally different than yours.
>She is a reality;
Yes
>God is an illusion.
Yes
>And love, dammit, is a reality too. Or else I would not be feeling what I
> am feeling right now.
What can you tell love anyway?
> You can't tell me that stupid psychoanalytical crap any more.
Just be careful who you listen to.
Try to find that book I told you about, it will help you.
> Do feelings run a script?
No, I don't think so.
> I understand why those women put up with abuse. It is incredible what
> one can survive if one has love inside them.
Love, all tangled up with abuse does a number to many people, but my point
is as much as you'd think "love" saves the day - sorry to tell you....it
doesn't.
Regardless of love.....there is hope, will, strength.
Think of Terry Anderson, what he survived.
Think of all the concentration camp survivors.
You think "love" pulled them through?
>She taught me real love.
I thought Layo did?
> She is with the man who loves her like I love her
How do you know?
She just met him.
This is weird, weird, weird to me. She falls in love that easily?
> I don't care any longer about survival
Ilya - that doesn't sound good, not at all.
> What I found is the truth I have sought for.
Truth?
>What I found is the truth of life. Itself.
To live.
> I will not escape from pain.
Listen....I hate to be so abrasive when you are in such pain.
Just STOP. So much does not make sense.
You are wounded, time for healing.....
Write it out, keep it to yourself, go within, don't listen to anyone but
yourself and do what you always do when you don't understand something.
Turn to the books.
Ilya Shambat
Hi sweetie,
I think we understand each other. You know a lot, you really do. Thank
you for reaching out to me.
Ilya Shambat
> "Ilya Shambat" wrote:::
>
> > Thomas Edison said that science was going to discover >the secrets of the
> soul.
>
> I think quantum physics will have something in store for us.
So will general relativity.
> > I am sorry for the world, J.
>
> It's ok, the world is the way it is.
>
> <I know you didn't really mean me> ;-)
I most certainly did not.
> > I told her on the phone that I wanted to call the man she >is with
>
> Don't call him, it is not right.
>
> > Love and pain. All else are illusions.
>
> Love & pain can be illusions too, it's the feelings that make them real to
> you.
>
> > I don't care about psychology.
>
> Since when?
OK, I do.
> >I don't care about religion.
>
> You never did.
No, I never did.
> > She says I should not love
> > her more than I love God.
>
> She is not you.
> Her relationship with God, is totally different than yours.
That is correct.
> >She is a reality;
>
> Yes
>
> >God is an illusion.
>
> Yes
>
> >And love, dammit, is a reality too. Or else I would not be feeling what I
> > am feeling right now.
>
> What can you tell love anyway?
>
> > You can't tell me that stupid psychoanalytical crap any more.
>
> Just be careful who you listen to.
> Try to find that book I told you about, it will help you.
>
> > Do feelings run a script?
>
> No, I don't think so.
>
> > I understand why those women put up with abuse. It is incredible what
> > one can survive if one has love inside them.
>
> Love, all tangled up with abuse does a number to many people, but my point
> is as much as you'd think "love" saves the day - sorry to tell you....it
> doesn't.
>
> Regardless of love.....there is hope, will, strength.
> Think of Terry Anderson, what he survived.
> Think of all the concentration camp survivors.
> You think "love" pulled them through?
Will. Will under love.
> >She taught me real love.
>
> I thought Layo did?
She taught me her kind of love.
> > She is with the man who loves her like I love her
>
> How do you know?
> She just met him.
> This is weird, weird, weird to me. She falls in love that easily?
Yes. So do I. We are the same. We see the beauty in people.
> > I don't care any longer about survival
>
> Ilya - that doesn't sound good, not at all.
>
> > What I found is the truth I have sought for.
>
> Truth?
>
> >What I found is the truth of life. Itself.
>
> To live.
>
> > I will not escape from pain.
>
> Listen....I hate to be so abrasive when you are in such pain.
> Just STOP. So much does not make sense.
> You are wounded, time for healing.....
> Write it out, keep it to yourself, go within, don't listen to anyone but
> yourself and do what you always do when you don't understand something.
> Turn to the books.
OK, I will seek knowledge.
catb...@fwiw.com
says...
>>
>> Sigh. Poor Ilya. Once in every persons life, they should have their guts ripped
>> out by love.
>
>Hi sweetie,
>
>I think we understand each other. You know a lot, you really do. Thank
>you for reaching out to me.
Yes, yes, wise beyond my years darling. But not always so. Or else I would not
be able to empathize with the suffering of mere mortals, like yourself.
Now, lesson #2: The more of yourself you give away in passionate, but doomed,
love affairs, the less of you there is to devote to important things like; lawn
parties, croquet matches, art exhibits, and chardonnay tastings.
I have decided that I rather like keeping my "guts" exactly where they are. My
digestion works so much better.
Don't ever make the mistake of falling in love - with love. It is a tragic fate
I would never wish on anyone.
Cat
BrendaLee
Ilya Shambat wrote:
>
> Thomas Edison said that science was going to discover the secrets of
> the soul. The Christian and Kantian belief is that such things are
> unknowable; I believe that is hogwash. They may be unknowable through
> rational inquiry, but they can be known by being accepted and
> experienced, which is what I am doing with all the world's major
> religions and all of the feelings that exist. In the mystical
> experiences I had, I had to suspend disbelief, and then incredible
> things have happened. I was taken to jewels, pure jewels, of talent
> and love and beauty around America. I love them all.
I don't have a problem with the soul being knowable. But I don't wish it
to be something rationalized, beaten into the ground like has been tried
with love. I like that there is depth and wonder about it's very
existence. I don't see the soul as something that can be known but as
something that is best felt. Some things in life should not be known and
that is why they will most likely remain a mystery for eternity..
The deepest love I have ever felt was when I also felt connected to my
soul. Love is not something we can ever adequately describe without
fumbling around for some pat expressions at best. This is because love
too is felt, not reasoned out. And I hope it never is.
When you are possessed of love, the world opens up in very beautiful
ways.
Love really can move mountains.
>
> I am sorry for the world, J. I am so sorry for what happened to you -
> for what was done to you. I am sorry for what those men did to you.
You can know something. She is a stronger person for her experiences.
They might have been hell or a form of hell, or even hell on earth. But
you can be sure , rather spunky lady. :)
> On behalf of all mankind, I am sorry.
I hope she has made a good choice this time. Unfortunately only time
will tell. The best we can do is learn from our mistakes so as not to
repeat them. It was nice of you to show her love of a different kind.
> I told her on the phone that I
> wanted to call the man she is with and tell him to treat her gently
> and be loving to her. She said, "You love me this much, yes?"
I am sorry you are not the one that is in that place and role.
I know how much you wished to be, Elijah.
> When all the stupid distracting voices are gone, this is what I have. Love and
> pain.
Well we each have to process our hurts in the ways we are best equipped
to handle them. I think you should allow yourself to grieve but use what
you had with her to keep the heaviness from weighing you down
emotionally.
If you try and numb yourself you will lodge the hurt within. Better to
feel it and allow it to flow through you and then you can let her go
while keeping them memories inside in a healthy manner..
>All else are illusions.
Elijah, all of life is pleasure and pain. If you are alive and feeling,
you are experiencing one end, the other, or something somewhere
inbetween.
Some think the pain of love makes it not worth it. I disagree. Hearts
that have loved are better for it. Hearts are made to withstand loving
as well as losing. What feels like a broken heart is actually an engaged
heart, a growing heart. And we can grow just as much from hurt and pain
as from love and pleasure. Bottom line though? I think it is always
better to feel than not to feel.
>
> I don't care about psychology.
Forgive me but I find that hard to believe. :)
> I don't care about religion.
Not in the traditional sense but you are very religious, pious even, in
your own way.
I believe there is a place for that.
> The love that I feel in my heart is all that I am.
I can relate to that.
> She says I should not love her more than I love God.
You appeared to be getting away from yourself for a while there. As I
mentioned once. But I understood your need to do that as it was
important to her. I just know if you have to give yourself up in order
to be with someone you will be forever looking for yourself down the
road.
> She is a reality; God is an illusion.
God works for some. I respect that. People have a right to what works
for them. Being a kinesthetic I do better with things and people I can
touch. Heh.. I don't even like to buy anything if I cannot touch it and
bond with it first.
> And love, dammit, is a reality too. Or else I would not be feeling what I
> am feeling right now.
Yes. Love is a reality. Sorry you are in pain.
> Doctor Zhivago was described, after being with the woman he loved, as
> having let himself go. I know why Pasternak would say this. Pasternak
> was a brilliant man, and he understood that it is not wise to
> rationalize one's way out of one's feelings. Rather it is important to
> feel them. Be one with them. And let them take one around the world.
Have you ever tried to tell yourself you are not feeling something? To
talk yourself out of feeling something? Better yet convince yourself of
it? It is damn near impossible.
> Do feelings run a script? C.S. Lewis, after spending his lifetime
> preaching Christian doctrine, fell in love and found all his answers
> missing, lacking, inadequate.
In my estimation and experience some people walk around thinking they
have all the answers when many aspects of life and love cannot be
reasoned with or rationalized. So when it hits them much is thrown out
the window. :)
I see people online talking about things they have never experienced. As
if booklearning can somehow prepare them for the reality. Wisdom is
knowledge put to use and applied. That is why I perfer to talk about
things I have directly experienced.
I think that experience trumps knowledge.
>
> I understand why those women put up with abuse. It is incredible what
> one can survive if one has love inside them.
Yes on the latter part. You have to remember though it is not only love
that keeps one in abuse. Fear has just as large a role and does guilt,
feeling trapped, manipulation and remorse.
I think love is the strongest of emotions.
I have seen love overcome trememdous fear.
> She taught me real love.
> I will never forget it. I will just feel it.
That is wonderful. And you can feel it forever, continuing to grow from
it.
>
> I am a truth seeker. And I found the truth I have sought in my love
> for this woman. C. S. Lewis said that the Christian perspective is
> that if feelings exist in the human being then there must be a way to
> fulfil them, and the feelings of absolute passion that exist in the
> human soul must be meant for heaven. No, they mustn't. They are meant
> for romantic love here on earth. They are meant as an imprint of
> paradise to exist here.
I have seen both heaven and hell, Elijah, and they were both right here
on earth.
I walked from hell right into heaven in the same lifetime in fact..
>
> I am broken, and I am free.
You are not broken. You are sad. You lost a love. But broken you are
not. You take that love and add it to the love you carry within and it
will help you grow and create even more love. Then you can add them
experiences to your next love.
> I am now a lot like Layo. Lisbeth said
> that she often felt like the lowest thing on earth, and I suppose that
> this kind of thing brings one down.
It certainly can, if one chooses to let it.
When you are feeling at your lowest -- Just lay down on the ground and
look up. For that is the only way to go. There is strength in knowing
that. It was for me. When I was at my lowest came the realization that I
could not possibly get any lower and so without risk of losing anything
more I realized just how strong and powerful I really was. A person with
nothing to lose is a powerful person. You have a choice as to how to
view your circumstances. Don't try to hide, or drown out your feelings,
feel everything, use it to write. You are also, as you stated, free.
Being free is not akin to being broken.
> Rationality is a cask, an escape.
Then why try to rationalize it? There is no need.
> Michele said that love was chemicals, then she admitted she said this
> in order to not feel depressed about losing the man she had loved. The
> Elizabeth script is that the lover betrays the woman. The woman I love
> comes from the lineage of Queen Elizabeth. And now, she has been
> healed. She is with the man who loves her like I love her and can take
> care of her. I can't. I can't give her what she needs. But I can still
> love her.
Yes, you can love her. And I think you do. But......
You don't have to love her in a way that leaves you feeling empty and in
pain.
Love is an empowerment. If you dwell on your pain instead of using it to
grow what good was that love you shared then?
> Dull, raw pain. And passion, pure passion. This is the reality I have
> sought. This is far more real than anything else.
I think you are feeling more than that. :)
And yes, I know the feelings you describe.
>You can knock me over the head now with a two-by-four and I won't feel a thing. I don't
> care any longer about survival,
Elijah, you 'have' been knocked over the head with a two-by-four.
A woman you love is with another man.
And you 'are' feeling it. All of it.
Not caring about your survival is not the answer though.
> about heaven, about having a woman,
As you yourself said, you fall in love easily. You will fall in love
again, and soon. Because you are that type. Love means everything to
you, and you live to wrap yourself around an other.
And that is okay.
> about anything. What I found is the truth I have sought for. What I
> found is the truth of life. Itself.
>
> I will not escape from pain.
Some people seem to have more than their share.
> If pain is what I am about then I will be
Do you really think pain is what you are about?
> that. The man in San Francisco said that the woman is the giver of
> lies, but this woman is the giver of truth.
I believe that your love is real. But I think maybe she was not the
right one for you. And sometimes we cannot see this until hindsight
shows us. Maybe she was a seed, a preparation for a love you will
experience down the line.
> And I love her.
And that is ...okay!
>
> And as Charlie Chaplin said, now, Smile.
Mighty hard to smile when your heart is breaking.
I got a better one.
Stay real!
If you can feel it, you can heal it.
hug,
BrendaLee
--
~~~~~~
BrendaLee
RFA President – The Lady DreamCatcher
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.cocreator.com/ehmka/
"Only unsuccessful people need to know who they are.
Successful people already know they will never know
who they are."
---Kevin Ehmka
Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise
will, sooner or later, have to find time for illness.
---Edward Stanley, Earl of Derby, 1873
Nutmegger
"Ilya Shambat" wrote:
> > Regardless of love.....there is hope, will, strength.
> > Think of Terry Anderson, what he survived.
> > Think of all the concentration camp survivors.
> > You think "love" pulled them through?
>
> Will. Will under love.
That is a definition of hope to me.
Think about it this way.
Which is more important to make it through?
Will or love?
Can you have only will and no love?
Can you have only love and no will?
Will, under love is ideal, but there is also will under hate, fear, anger,
jealousy and guilt.
> > >She taught me real love.
> > I thought Layo did?
> She taught me her kind of love.
Curious.......what makes one love more real than the other to you?
> > She falls in love that easily?
> Yes. So do I. We are the same.
No, you are very different from my perspective.
>We see the beauty in people.
There is more to it than that.
> > Turn to the books.
> OK, I will seek knowledge.
That will help you get to a better place within yourself. It will take a
bit, but it will make you feel better - not so much reeling.
BrendaLee
bob wrote:
>
> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >When you are possessed of love, the world opens up in very beautiful
> >ways.
> >Love really can move mountains.
>
> Which mountains have been moved by love?
Heh. It was not literal, Bob.
I have seen people's health do tremendous turnabouts to the better due
to love ...
A very potent force.
>
> Why do you call him Elijah?
For a while there we were having these really cool long online
conversations. Because I tend to enjoy giving people names that others
do not use.
I don't think the name Ilya fits him. And I believe that our name has a
lot to do with how experiences in our life pan out. Part of it is
numerologically oriented, but not nearly all of it. So I named him
something else. With his permission, of course.
Try it yourself. Add your middle name onto your papers and signature, or
take it away depending how you use your name now, and see if your life
changes in any way.
>
> >If you can feel it, you can heal it.
>
> I don't agree with this. Some things are never fixed.
True, but
healing it, doesn't necessarily mean fixing it.
More on that later.. maybe. Gotta run.
Nutmegger
"BrendaLee" wrote:
> I don't think the name Ilya fits him.
I think Ilya fits him well, he _is_ Russian after all.
Ilya = Elijah in Russian
BrendaLee
bob wrote:
>
> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >bob wrote:
> >>
> >> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >When you are possessed of love, the world opens up in very beautiful
> >> >ways.
> >> >Love really can move mountains.
> >>
> >> Which mountains have been moved by love?
> >
> >Heh. It was not literal, Bob.
>
> Oh, OK.
>
> >I have seen people's health do tremendous turnabouts to the better due
> >to love ...
> >A very potent force.
>
> Chemicals.
I am into 'natural healing'. :)
>
> >> Why do you call him Elijah?
> >
> >For a while there we were having these really cool long online
> >conversations. Because I tend to enjoy giving people names that others
> >do not use.
>
> Elijah was a prophet.
I often think Elijah tend to view himself in this light.
>
> >I don't think the name Ilya fits him.
>
> Sure it does. It's his name.
I don't think our name automatically fits just because it is our name.
After all we did not give it to ourselves. I know some people that
hated their name so much they legally changed it as soon as they were
able.
We talked before about his name. He was not offended or anything.
>
> >And I believe that our name has a
> >lot to do with how experiences in our life pan out. Part of it is
> >numerologically oriented, but not nearly all of it. So I named him
> >something else. With his permission, of course.
>
> heh
:)
>
> >Try it yourself. Add your middle name onto your papers and signature, or
> >take it away depending how you use your name now, and see if your life
> >changes in any way.
>
> It wouldn't.
How can you be so sure?
Maybe you would be pleasantly surprised.
I mean what would you have to lose?
> >> >If you can feel it, you can heal it.
> >>
> >> I don't agree with this. Some things are never fixed.
> >
> >True, but
> >healing it, doesn't necessarily mean fixing it.
> >More on that later.. maybe.
>
> No need.
>
> > Gotta run.
>
> I hope you stretched first.
Thanks. And I did and do... now.
That was my weakest link to exercising. When you have no patience it
seems like a waste. But I have finally agreed that it is worth the time
to warm up and cool down.
:)
Ilya Shambat
> "Only unsuccessful people need to know who they are.
> Successful people already know they will never know
> who they are."
You know, this man sounds really cool. You should stay with him.
Nutmegger
"bob" wrote:::
> >> >Try it yourself. Add your middle name onto your papers and signature,
or
> >> >take it away depending how you use your name now, and see if your life
> >> >changes in any way.
> >>
> >> It wouldn't.
> >
> >How can you be so sure?
I'm sure, I've done it before.
> >Maybe you would be pleasantly surprised.
I dropped my first name after I got married and used J. then my middle
name - Stephanie.
> >I mean what would you have to lose?
It was a pain in the ass changing all the paperwork and stuff.
I've long ago went back to my first name.
Maybe women feel differently about this anyway, since they often get married
and take the man's last name. You learn quickly you aren't a name.
> Continuity.
Can be good, and can need to be shaken up every now and then.
<"Curtis Lowe was the finest picker to ever play the blues." Know what I'm
listening to?>
BrendaLee
bob wrote:
>
> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >bob wrote:
> >>
> >> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >bob wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >When you are possessed of love, the world opens up in very beautiful
> >> >> >ways.
> >> >> >Love really can move mountains.
> >> >>
> >> >> Which mountains have been moved by love?
> >> >
> >> >Heh. It was not literal, Bob.
> >>
> >> Oh, OK.
> >>
> >> >I have seen people's health do tremendous turnabouts to the better due
> >> >to love ...
> >> >A very potent force.
> >>
> >> Chemicals.
> >
> >I am into 'natural healing'. :)
>
> I meant that love is a chemical thing.
It is also a natural thing. :) Depending where you stand.
>
> >> >> Why do you call him Elijah?
> >> >
> >> >For a while there we were having these really cool long online
> >> >conversations. Because I tend to enjoy giving people names that others
> >> >do not use.
> >>
> >> Elijah was a prophet.
> >
> >I often think Elijah tend to view himself in this light.
>
> There ya go.
But that was not why I like that name better than his real name.
> >> >I don't think the name Ilya fits him.
> >>
> >> Sure it does. It's his name.
> >
> >I don't think our name automatically fits just because it is our name.
> >After all we did not give it to ourselves. I know some people that
> >hated their name so much they legally changed it as soon as they were
> >able.
>
> I want to change my name to Rufus.
If it will do ya good you might want to consider it.
>
> >We talked before about his name. He was not offended or anything.
>
> Sounds like an interesting conversation. Not.
It wasn't a long conversation. It was just a mention. Yep.
> >> >And I believe that our name has a
> >> >lot to do with how experiences in our life pan out. Part of it is
> >> >numerologically oriented, but not nearly all of it. So I named him
> >> >something else. With his permission, of course.
> >>
> >> heh
> >
> >:)
> >
> It's likely you missed my point.
Nope.
>
> >> >Try it yourself. Add your middle name onto your papers and signature, or
> >> >take it away depending how you use your name now, and see if your life
> >> >changes in any way.
> >>
> >> It wouldn't.
> >
> >How can you be so sure?
> >Maybe you would be pleasantly surprised.
> >I mean what would you have to lose?
>
> Continuity.
There are many ways to make changes that are not even done 'legally'. No
red tape whatsoever.
>
> >> > Gotta run.
> >>
> >> I hope you stretched first.
> >
> >Thanks. And I did and do... now.
> >
> >That was my weakest link to exercising. When you have no patience it
> >seems like a waste. But I have finally agreed that it is worth the time
> >to warm up and cool down.
>
> I'd pay to have an exercise fanatic possess me for an hour or two a
> day.
Heh.. An exercise fanatic would not have the time... no doubt.
BrendaLee
Hello Elijah..
100%
Cooler than cool!
Hotter than hot!
> You should stay with him.
It was never in doubt.
smiles,
BrendaLee( he's a keeper )
--
~~~~~~
BrendaLee
RFA President – The Lady DreamCatcher
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.cocreator.com/ehmka/
"Only unsuccessful people need to know who they are.
Successful people already know they will never know
who they are."
Victoria
> Thomas Edison said that science was going to discover the secrets of
> the soul. The Christian and Kantian belief is that such things are
> unknowable; I believe that is hogwash. They may be unknowable through
> rational inquiry, but they can be known by being accepted and
> experienced, which is what I am doing with all the world's major
> religions and all of the feelings that exist. In the mystical
> experiences I had, I had to suspend disbelief, and then incredible
> things have happened. I was taken to jewels, pure jewels, of talent
> and love and beauty around America. I love them all.
>
> I am sorry for the world, J. I am so sorry for what happened to you -
> for what was done to you. I am sorry for what those men did to you. On
> behalf of all mankind, I am sorry. I told her on the phone that I
> wanted to call the man she is with and tell him to treat her gently
> and be loving to her. She said, "You love me this much, yes?" When all
> the stupid distracting voices are gone, this is what I have. Love and
> pain. All else are illusions.
>
> I don't care about psychology. I don't care about religion. The love
> that I feel in my heart is all that I am. She says I should not love
> her more than I love God. She is a reality; God is an illusion. And
> love, dammit, is a reality too. Or else I would not be feeling what I
> am feeling right now.
>
Love is real. It's an action. Words (of course) are effective too.
Victoria
catb...@fwiw.com
>> > She says I should not love
>> > her more than I love God.
Can an abstraction kiss you on the lips? Does the body of a god warm you on a
cold night? Can a god even cook an egg?
>"Nutmegger" wrote in message
>> She is not you.
>> Her relationship with God, is totally different than yours.
>
>That is correct.
>
>> >She is a reality;
>>
>> Yes
Is she? She doesn't sound very realistic to me. But then I was never one for
religions.
>> >God is an illusion.
>>
>> Yes
Abstract construct.
>> >And love, dammit, is a reality too. Or else I would not be feeling what I
>> > am feeling right now.
>>
>> What can you tell love anyway?
>>
>> > You can't tell me that stupid psychoanalytical crap any more.
Damn that Freud!
>> Just be careful who you listen to.
>> Try to find that book I told you about, it will help you.
>>
>> > Do feelings run a script?
>>
>> No, I don't think so.
>>
>> > I understand why those women put up with abuse. It is incredible what
>> > one can survive if one has love inside them.
Though possibly not one's own stupidity.
>> Love, all tangled up with abuse does a number to many people, but my point
>> is as much as you'd think "love" saves the day - sorry to tell you....it
>> doesn't.
>>
>> Regardless of love.....there is hope, will, strength.
>> Think of Terry Anderson, what he survived.
>> Think of all the concentration camp survivors.
>> You think "love" pulled them through?
>
>Will. Will under love.
>
>> >She taught me real love.
>>
>> I thought Layo did?
>
>She taught me her kind of love.
Ilya...perpetual student.
>> > She is with the man who loves her like I love her
>>
>> How do you know?
>> She just met him.
>> This is weird, weird, weird to me. She falls in love that easily?
>
>Yes. So do I. We are the same. We see the beauty in people.
A fickle and transcient love. Many people are beautiful. Many ugly and twisted.
But romantic love sees with a third eye - one that often needs a monocle.
Falling in love "easily" doesn't seem to me a virtue at all. How is it different
from shallowness?
>> > I don't care any longer about survival
>>
>> Ilya - that doesn't sound good, not at all.
Agreed. Where will all these violent emotions be once you are dust Ilya?
And will you be happier for having suffered them?
>> > What I found is the truth I have sought for.
>>
>> Truth?
>>
>> >What I found is the truth of life. Itself.
>>
>> To live.
>>
>> > I will not escape from pain.
Well, of course not.
>> Listen....I hate to be so abrasive when you are in such pain.
>> Just STOP. So much does not make sense.
>> You are wounded, time for healing.....
>> Write it out, keep it to yourself, go within, don't listen to anyone but
>> yourself and do what you always do when you don't understand something.
>> Turn to the books.
>
>OK, I will seek knowledge.
Endless seeking...(sigh)...and never finding. I met a man once who called
himself a "Seeker". He had very odd habits. I think he wanted to find a like
body of souls and join them in some pre-fab cosmic bliss.
I think he ended up being disappointed.
Cat
BrendaLee
bob wrote:
>
> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >bob wrote:
> >>
> >> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >bob wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >bob wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> BrendaLee <eh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >When you are possessed of love, the world opens up in very beautiful
> >> >> >> >ways.
> >> >> >> >Love really can move mountains.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Which mountains have been moved by love?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Heh. It was not literal, Bob.
> >> >>
> >> >> Oh, OK.
> >> >>
> >> >> >I have seen people's health do tremendous turnabouts to the better due
> >> >> >to love ...
> >> >> >A very potent force.
> >> >>
> >> >> Chemicals.
> >> >
> >> >I am into 'natural healing'. :)
> >>
> >> I meant that love is a chemical thing.
> >
> >It is also a natural thing. :) Depending where you stand.
>
> On solid ground Brenda Lee. On solid ground.
Methinks I am much more 'grounded' than you appear to give me credit
for.
I always try to have at least 'one foot' on solid ground. :)
>
> >> >> >> Why do you call him Elijah?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >For a while there we were having these really cool long online
> >> >> >conversations. Because I tend to enjoy giving people names that others
> >> >> >do not use.
> >> >>
> >> >> Elijah was a prophet.
> >> >
> >> >I often think Elijah tend to view himself in this light.
> >>
> >> There ya go.
> >
> >But that was not why I like that name better than his real name.
>
> When you use it I think of a Saturday Night Live skit I saw several
> years ago.
I never got into that show. (watching it that is) Did you enjoy it?
> >> >> >I don't think the name Ilya fits him.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sure it does. It's his name.
> >> >
> >> >I don't think our name automatically fits just because it is our name.
> >> >After all we did not give it to ourselves. I know some people that
> >> >hated their name so much they legally changed it as soon as they were
> >> >able.
> >>
> >> I want to change my name to Rufus.
> >
> >If it will do ya good you might want to consider it.
>
> A week on the beach would do me some good.
A week on the beach can do every body good.
[One of my favorite places in the world to be.]
So, why not make it happen?
If you need it you should make it happen.
>
> >> >We talked before about his name. He was not offended or anything.
> >>
> >> Sounds like an interesting conversation. Not.
> >
> >It wasn't a long conversation. It was just a mention. Yep.
>
> I'm glad.
Heh... So, why would that matter to you?
> >> >> >And I believe that our name has a
> >> >> >lot to do with how experiences in our life pan out. Part of it is
> >> >> >numerologically oriented, but not nearly all of it. So I named him
> >> >> >something else. With his permission, of course.
> >> >>
> >> >> heh
> >> >
> >> >:)
> >> >
> >> It's likely you missed my point.
> >
> >Nope.
>
> I'm not sure that you did but that's OK.
> >> >> >Try it yourself. Add your middle name onto your papers and signature, or
> >> >> >take it away depending how you use your name now, and see if your life
> >> >> >changes in any way.
> >> >>
> >> >> It wouldn't.
> >> >
> >> >How can you be so sure?
> >> >Maybe you would be pleasantly surprised.
> >> >I mean what would you have to lose?
> >>
> >> Continuity.
> >
> >There are many ways to make changes that are not even done 'legally'. No
> >red tape whatsoever.
>
> I wasn't thinking about the red tape.
Oh, cause I thought you metioned red tape before.
So your two wives did not take your last name? Did I get that right?
So how would continuity be interrupted if it was not legally? I changed
my name and there was no break in continuity whatsoeva. :)
> >> >> > Gotta run.
> >> >>
> >> >> I hope you stretched first.
> >> >
> >> >Thanks. And I did and do... now.
> >> >
> >> >That was my weakest link to exercising. When you have no patience it
> >> >seems like a waste. But I have finally agreed that it is worth the time
> >> >to warm up and cool down.
> >>
> >> I'd pay to have an exercise fanatic possess me for an hour or two a
> >> day.
> >
> >Heh.. An exercise fanatic would not have the time... no doubt.
>
> Perhaps I should start watching sports.
Ah, but it is not as much fun playing at
'spectator sports!'
I have a lot of energy so it is hard to sit here still until after
having depleted some of the reserve energy I can settle in. I always
enjoyed playing sports of any kind more than watching.
Though many seem to love it.
Ilya Shambat
> Ilya Shambat says...
>
> >> > She says I should not love
> >> > her more than I love God.
>
> Can an abstraction kiss you on the lips? Does the body of a god warm you on a
> cold night? Can a god even cook an egg?
No, but prayer can focus my thoughts.
> >> >She is a reality;
> >>
> >> Yes
>
> Is she? She doesn't sound very realistic to me. But then I was never one for
> religions.
People who are realistic make horrible partners for relationships.
They always try to drag you down. If the universe is run by entropy,
then life that tends toward ever-higher organizations of matter in a
universe seemingly run by death is a revolt against the basic state of
the universe, and love, as the fulfilment of life to the fullest - as
the flowering of THE VERY THING THAT IS LIFE - is a revolt against the
basic state of the universe as well. A beautiful love relationship is
therefore one in which the partners use their minds and their wills
together to fight the way things are to make a paradise for each
other, not one in which they grimly see things as they supposedly are
and are worn down by assaying each other from that perspective. Love
is the fulfilment of life. As such, it is a revolt against death.
There has been a study that said that the most fulfilling
relationships are not ones in which partners see each other clearly
but ones in which they keep their romantic beliefs about each other.
The sheer disgusting ridiculous idiocy of most relationships is that
either the man or the woman poses as the voice of sanity or social
authority and attacks and abuses the partner for supposedly lacking
social morals or supposedly lacking a brain rather than seeing them
and relishing in the love they have to give. Excuse me idiot, but you
CHOSE this person, you fell in LOVE with this person, if she is
immoral then what does it FUCKING tell about YOU that you were
attracted to her and are staying with her? Leave her and find someone
you find moral, you FUCKING piece of shit, and leave her to find
someone who would appreciate her for what she is. Beautiful
relationships are not about equality. They are not about some tedious
life-killing morality. They are not about formulas or religion. They
are about MAKING A PARADISE FOR EACH OTHER. C.S. Lewis said that the
Christian perspective is that all feelings have a possibility for
fulfilment, and if a feeling such as longing cannot be fulfilled on
earth then it has to be fulfilled in heaven - well no, it CAN be
fulfilled on earth, it can be fulfilled through Absolute. Consummate.
Soul-Blending. Ecstatic. Love. Whatever the beliefs of the age may be
about the possibility of such a thing happening. And indeed, she has
confessed to me that it is her refusal to accept the world as it
supposedly is that makes all the men in the world fall in love with
her. She looks a lot more beautiful now than she did 20 years ago. She
dances like a spirited 20-year-old. Realism is not what is lovable;
human spirit is. It is the spirit of life, the spirit of vivaciousness
and romanticism and tenderness and compassion and sensitivity and
joyfulness and eroticism and talent and creativity, combined with
refusal to give up no matter what, that makes for a truly lovable
person. That spirit gets attacked and abused in the United States of
America, but not in France. American men want such women but treat
them horribly. Many women like that get killed or commit suicide or,
at the very least, fall into despair. Until someone with a humanistic
conscience sees what is true and beautiful and lays down the law and
removes from her all the hideous abominations that were placed her way
and loves her as she deserves to be loved. Which, if one is a human
being, is the true. Moral. And righteous. Thing. To. Do.
When I look at your smile
I see life looking at me
grinning from ear to ear
and dissolving in red cheeks.
You don't like me to call you a Goddess
for you do not want to be a myth
nor do you want to be
a disembodied spirit
or a dispirited body
you want to be
the embodiment of love in flesh and spirit
and a soft and vulnerable human being
who gives of herself
and is loved in return.
you have a black hat
which you put over the white curls of your hair
to walk the dog on a chilly autumn night.
your gait is brisk and firm
your body is trim and nimble
your legs are supple
and you always look in the eyes.
you have a laughter that rings through the house
and eyes that radiate sunshine
and freckles all over your face.
you play tag with your son
and dance salsa with me
and get carded at stores.
You tell crying babies that everything will be OK
and give solace to aggrieved widows
and photograph flowers and oceans and musicians with concentrated
looks.
Life pushes at you
and you push back with vigor
always fun
always loving
always giving
always the truth.
time doesn't touch you
and your mind is a garden of Eden
where grows every fantastical fruit and blossom
and does not allow itself to die
for it is stronger than death
for it is the creative striving of the universe
which is inextricable from its essence
of which structure is but a containment
and a presentation in human form
and you're not a myth
you are the highest form of reality
that puts reality in its place
and makes it a place worth living
and gives it meaning and presentation
and to say that I love you
is like saying that sun is pretty warm.
> >> > I understand why those women put up with abuse. It is incredible what
> >> > one can survive if one has love inside them.
>
> Though possibly not one's own stupidity.
I wouldn't call it stupidity. I would call it lack of correct
guidance. When one is raised with love by exceptional, noble, great
people, one does not understand the depth of most people's
hideousness. Especially the ones who consider themselves the
guarantors of social law, the godliest men they know, the presidents
of the Lutheran church or the good obedient Jewish boys.
> >She taught me her kind of love.
>
> Ilya...perpetual student.
That is correct.
> >> > She is with the man who loves her like I love her
> >>
> >> How do you know?
> >> She just met him.
> >> This is weird, weird, weird to me. She falls in love that easily?
> >
> >Yes. So do I. We are the same. We see the beauty in people.
>
> A fickle and transcient love. Many people are beautiful. Many ugly and twisted.
>
> But romantic love sees with a third eye - one that often needs a monocle.
> Falling in love "easily" doesn't seem to me a virtue at all. How is it different
> from shallowness?
Shallowness is about seeing appearances. This is about seeing the soul
of the person and loving it. When one has written enough good poetry
or done enough good art, one can do that.
> >> > I don't care any longer about survival
> >>
> >> Ilya - that doesn't sound good, not at all.
>
> Agreed. Where will all these violent emotions be once you are dust Ilya?
> And will you be happier for having suffered them?
I will have lived.
> >> > I will not escape from pain.
>
> Well, of course not.
>
> >> Listen....I hate to be so abrasive when you are in such pain.
> >> Just STOP. So much does not make sense.
> >> You are wounded, time for healing.....
> >> Write it out, keep it to yourself, go within, don't listen to anyone but
> >> yourself and do what you always do when you don't understand something.
> >> Turn to the books.
> >
> >OK, I will seek knowledge.
>
> Endless seeking...(sigh)...and never finding. I met a man once who called
> himself a "Seeker". He had very odd habits. I think he wanted to find a like
> body of souls and join them in some pre-fab cosmic bliss.
>
> I think he ended up being disappointed.
I did see a body of souls in a pre-fab cosmic bliss. It came to me
right before someone who contained them inside of her soul called me.
Let me tell you what it looks like. It is translucent grey gel, in
which is contained a richness of golden ingots. Inside these golden
ingots are golden eggs. They sparkle and sprinkle and call out to you.
They say hello kitty, hello kitty - yes Cat, these can be a part of
you, these can be yours, these can be with you my lady, these can be
yours too. To make this a part of you. Place your mind inside the gel.
Stop before the golden eggs. Listen. Pay attention. And let the center
of the universe eat into your soul.
And another thing.
Into my spirit I will rise
And into your spirit I will go
The way you know me with your eyes
And in what way you tell me so
I should have known - ah - it is you
I should have known what speaks your soul
What hides behind your eyes of blue -
I should have known, have known it all
The more you feel the less you heal
The more you are denied the meaning
You can't be real, this can't be real
What are you for? Why are you living?
It's warm inside the fireplace
It's soft and warm inside your mind
It's white and sweet in your embrace
More than in all of humankind
I do not know why I am here
I do not know what makes life be
But everything that I hold dear
Is found inside the truth of thee
Your kindness and your giving heart
The gorgeous passion of your soul
The tenderness that you impart
I love it all I love it all
And if I were to die today
I'd know forever and again
That I have understood the way
And that I have not lived in vain.
Nutmegger
"Ilya Shambat" wrote:::
> People who are realistic make horrible partners for relationships.
Do you know how ridicilous that sounds?
I'm thinking of Linda. She has her own reality which is so f*cked up, and
she invents complicated reasons which are all BS for anything that does not
fit in to her own ideas of reality. It is a sickness.
For someone whose tendency is to have their head in the clouds, a realistic
partner can actually provide a harmonious balance.
> They always try to drag you down.
That's untrue also, if your mind is open they help you to see situations in
a different light, and sometimes a way that can help and protect you.
In Linda's case, she drags everyone else down because she is so unrealistic.
>If the universe is run by entropy,
> then life that tends toward ever-higher organizations of matter in a
> universe seemingly run by death is a revolt against the basic state of
> the universe, and love, as the fulfilment of life to the fullest - as
> the flowering of THE VERY THING THAT IS LIFE - is a revolt against the
> basic state of the universe as well.
That is being realistic Ilya!!!
According to Arieti, antientropic forces exsist through life in that it
transforms the chaotic complexity of the inorganic world into the organized
complexity of the biological organism ---------> man.
>A beautiful love relationship is
> therefore one in which the partners use their minds and their wills
> together to fight the way things are to make a paradise for each
> other, not one in which they grimly see things as they supposedly are
> and are worn down by assaying each other from that perspective. Love
> is the fulfilment of life. As such, it is a revolt against death.
He goes on to say....
"Love goes far beyond being a physical phenomenon. By enabling us to
understand and participate in the splendid ORDERING of the universe-with the
promise of an endless cognitive development. Love is the enemy of entrophy,
the friend of life and hope."
You can not have order in chaotic situation. You need to be realistic to
solve the problem. You need to use the antientropic forces.
1. Reason - to make sense of chaos.
2. Virtue & ethical sense
3. Love - force that moves things together.
You can't just pick of of the three, it will always fail.
Sorry, but that is realism for you.
> Beautiful
> relationships are not about equality. They are not about some tedious
> life-killing morality. They are not about formulas or religion. They
> are about MAKING A PARADISE FOR EACH OTHER.
"What is beautiful is liked as a message of the invisible through the
visible; the visible is a message of the invisible part of love. But the
invisible parts of love must become visible as love unfolds." --Plotinus
Now...think about that quote and your situation.
> That spirit gets attacked and abused in the United States of
> America, but not in France.
Women's (and men's spirit) get abused and attacked in every nation of this
world. There is no accounting for the wickedness of many people.
Nationality is only one way to categorize it.
> > But romantic love sees with a third eye - one that often needs a
monocle.
> > Falling in love "easily" doesn't seem to me a virtue at all. How is it
different
> > from shallowness?
>
> Shallowness is about seeing appearances.
It is also about materialism, money.
>This is about seeing the soul
> of the person and loving it. When one has written enough good poetry
> or done enough good art, one can do that.
You make it sound like a person can not love another's soul unless they are
artistic or write poetry. It just does not work that way.
> > >> Turn to the books.
> > >
> > >OK, I will seek knowledge.
> >
> > Endless seeking...(sigh)...and never finding.
I don't view him like that. He seeks, and he does find. He just has not
found what is right for him....yet.
>I met a man once who called
> > himself a "Seeker". He had very odd habits.
I met a man once who thought he had all the answers. We'd always get into
these deep philosophical discussions, me spazzing out with my arms failing
and making funny faces to drive my points home, and him laughing at me.
>I think he wanted to find a like
> > body of souls and join them in some pre-fab cosmic bliss.
He had such a closed mind that we ended up really getting on each other
nerves. It got to the point where we would just ignore each other in social
situations.
> > I think he ended up being disappointed.
I know this man did, as he came back to talk to me some more with a totally
different view.
If I was such a "good" person, I would have listened to him and started all
over again.
But...I had been pushed to the point of being beyond caring anymore.
catb...@fwiw.com
>> Ilya Shambat says...
>No, but prayer can focus my thoughts.
Well, okay, if it works for you. I always associate prayer with a sort of cosmic
begging. Asking god for things, for patience, for more money - whatever. It
never appealed to me very much.
Now meditation!
>> Is she? She doesn't sound very realistic to me. But then I was never one for
>> religions.
>
>People who are realistic make horrible partners for relationships.
Do they?
>They always try to drag you down.
To good ol' terra firma?
>If the universe is run by entropy,
It is merely one mechanism in play.
>then life that tends toward ever-higher organizations of matter in a
>universe seemingly run by death is a revolt against the basic state of
>the universe, and love, as the fulfilment of life to the fullest - as
>the flowering of THE VERY THING THAT IS LIFE - is a revolt against the
>basic state of the universe as well.
(I don't think we're in Kansas anymore Toto.)
>A beautiful love relationship is
>therefore one in which the partners use their minds and their wills
>together to fight the way things are to make a paradise for each
>other, not one in which they grimly see things as they supposedly are
>and are worn down by assaying each other from that perspective.
And, as you say, this happens frequently to both you and your most recent ex?
But this "paradise" that you speak of - you're being metaphorical I trust? You
don't expect LOVE to take you to some rarified realm where no one ever farts or
has to do the dishes do you?
What you say gives me cause to wonder if any mere mortal woman will satisfy your
urge for a relationship Nirvana.
> Love
>is the fulfilment of life.
It's one of life's fulfilments - yes.
>As such, it is a revolt against death.
Now that's ridiculous. Death, with his long boney fingers, will catch us all.
Followed by oblivion. It is not lanky death, with his fantastical visions of an
after-life, that we panicy monkeys fear - it is that horrible abyss called -
OBLIVION.
>There has been a study that said that the most fulfilling
>relationships are not ones in which partners see each other clearly
>but ones in which they keep their romantic beliefs about each other.
There have been studies that report little green men in Arizona!
>The sheer disgusting ridiculous idiocy of most relationships is that
>either the man or the woman poses as the voice of sanity or social
>authority and attacks and abuses the partner for supposedly lacking
>social morals or supposedly lacking a brain rather than seeing them
>and relishing in the love they have to give. Excuse me idiot, but you
>CHOSE this person, you fell in LOVE with this person, if she is
>immoral then what does it FUCKING tell about YOU that you were
>attracted to her and are staying with her? Leave her and find someone
>you find moral, you FUCKING piece of shit, and leave her to find
>someone who would appreciate her for what she is.
Please, Ilya, you are shouting. It's too early for that. (Well - early here
anyway.) I'd offer you a drink, but it's a bit too early for that too.
>Beautiful
>relationships are not about equality.
Especially for the one who is more "equal".
>They are not about some tedious
>life-killing morality.
Oh, I agree. I have been called "immoral" (among some other choice things) and
it's water off a duck's back.
>They are not about formulas or religion.
Now I entirely disagree. The only purpose religion has, as far as I am
concerned, is to provide meaningless, but entirely spectacular, shows - as in
Catholic high mass.
Strip religion of its gawdy display, its bloody saints and rituals, and you are
left with - what?
Protestantism!
Oh God spare me from that grim fate. We have a saying, where I come from, about
being "dragged up Lutheran".
>They
>are about MAKING A PARADISE FOR EACH OTHER. C.S. Lewis said
That stuffy old English don - trying to breathe life into a dying cult by
rhetorical humbuggery!
>that the
>Christian perspective is that all feelings have a possibility for
>fulfilment, and if a feeling such as longing cannot be fulfilled on
>earth then it has to be fulfilled in heaven - well no, it CAN be
>fulfilled on earth, it can be fulfilled through Absolute. Consummate.
>Soul-Blending. Ecstatic. Love.
So a good, solid, mutually satisfying fuck won't do? You want more! How Anne
Rice of you!
>Whatever the beliefs of the age may be
>about the possibility of such a thing happening. And indeed, she has
>confessed to me that it is her refusal to accept the world as it
>supposedly is that makes all the men in the world fall in love with
>her.
And her - apparently - with them too!
> She looks a lot more beautiful now than she did 20 years ago. She
>dances like a spirited 20-year-old. Realism is not what is lovable;
>human spirit is.
Yes, yes...la de dah. But everyone has to come down to earth sometime. We aren't
birds Ilya. Our soarings are all too brief. Then someone has to put on their
muck boots and slop the hogs.
>It is the spirit of life, the spirit of vivaciousness
>and romanticism and tenderness and compassion and sensitivity and
>joyfulness and eroticism and talent and creativity,
(and that's quite a lot!)
>combined with
(oh gods, there's more!)
>refusal to give up no matter what, that makes for a truly lovable
>person.
Are you, Ilya, some kind of Albegensian? Matter, is what matters! Existence
preceeds essence!
>That spirit gets attacked and abused in the United States of
>America, but not in France.
I don't think Sartre would agree. Or Hesse. Or Tolstoy. Or Lagerkvist. Ibsen
wrote whole plays on a variation of that theme. It happens everywhere. It has
happened throughout human time. It's as antique as the species.
>American men want such women but treat
>them horribly. Many women like that get killed or commit suicide or,
>at the very least, fall into despair.
Many? Were their "romantic" fantasies of bliss dashed by mundane reality?
> Until someone with a humanistic
>conscience sees what is true and beautiful and lays down the law and
>removes from her all the hideous abominations that were placed her way
>and loves her as she deserves to be loved.
Humanists, if we are speaking technically here, are not much for the kind of
metaphysics that you have been talking about.
And this "laying down" of the "law" you speak of? I take it you're not referring
to a little playful spanking?
And who's law? Old Testament? Code of Hammurabi? Islamic? Or perhaps the Corpus
Civitatus Legibus Justiniorum?
>Which, if one is a human
>being, is the true. Moral. And righteous. Thing. To. Do.
Is it now?
My parents are good people. Quite solid. I think the most noble thing I have
ever seen is a stoic farmer going about his business. Those folk are not so
easily gulled by airy verbosity.
>> >She taught me her kind of love.
>>
>> Ilya...perpetual student.
>
>That is correct.
I loved college too. But sooner or later we are required to graduate.
>> >> > She is with the man who loves her like I love her
>> >>
>> >> How do you know?
>> >> She just met him.
>> >> This is weird, weird, weird to me. She falls in love that easily?
>> >
>> >Yes. So do I. We are the same. We see the beauty in people.
>>
>> A fickle and transcient love. Many people are beautiful. Many ugly and twisted.
>>
>> But romantic love sees with a third eye - one that often needs a monocle.
>> Falling in love "easily" doesn't seem to me a virtue at all. How is it different
>> from shallowness?
>
>Shallowness is about seeing appearances. This is about seeing the soul
>of the person and loving it. When one has written enough good poetry
>or done enough good art, one can do that.
I know artists. They do not seem any happier than I am. And some are decidedly
less so. But I am merely an art voyeur. After all, art is created for public
acclaim. And none seem so vain as the artist, standing pensively before his/her
newest "creation", awaiting a favorable reaction.
And when it is not forthcoming - they scream that the mundane world does not
appreciate their lofty vision.
>> >> > I don't care any longer about survival
>> >>
>> >> Ilya - that doesn't sound good, not at all.
>>
>> Agreed. Where will all these violent emotions be once you are dust Ilya?
>> And will you be happier for having suffered them?
>
>I will have lived.
So much might be said of some obscure protozoan.
>> >> > I will not escape from pain.
>>
>> Well, of course not.
>>
>> >> Listen....I hate to be so abrasive when you are in such pain.
>> >> Just STOP. So much does not make sense.
>> >> You are wounded, time for healing.....
>> >> Write it out, keep it to yourself, go within, don't listen to anyone but
>> >> yourself and do what you always do when you don't understand something.
>> >> Turn to the books.
>> >
>> >OK, I will seek knowledge.
>>
>> Endless seeking...(sigh)...and never finding. I met a man once who called
>> himself a "Seeker". He had very odd habits. I think he wanted to find a like
>> body of souls and join them in some pre-fab cosmic bliss.
>>
>> I think he ended up being disappointed.
>
>I did see a body of souls in a pre-fab cosmic bliss. It came to me
>right before someone who contained them inside of her soul called me.
>Let me tell you what it looks like. It is translucent grey gel, in
>which is contained a richness of golden ingots. Inside these golden
>ingots are golden eggs. They sparkle and sprinkle and call out to you.
>They say hello kitty, hello kitty - yes Cat, these can be a part of
>you, these can be yours, these can be with you my lady, these can be
>yours too. To make this a part of you. Place your mind inside the gel.
>Stop before the golden eggs. Listen. Pay attention. And let the center
>of the universe eat into your soul.
Eew! (Invasion of the Body Snatchers!)
Sounds like the Mormons!
Oh my!
To "live in vain" presupposes a purpose to all this...living and dying.
But were I the Goddess, I could have created a better world with one hand tied
behind my back!
There is too much wasted so that a few may attain their private Nirvanas.
All this endless feeding - only to be fed upon by something else...to a gang of
rogue cells as insentient as stone.
A sensible God would have dispensed with all this suffering and spirited the
whole of creation off directly to Elysium. But no! This God you pray to must
infect the weakest and most hopeless child with hideous diseases to further its
brief misery.
Better to worship a tree, a spring, or the moring sun. Something that does me
some good and doesn't demand constant enraptured attention like a spoiled brat.
I take my brief raptures were I find them. And where they will do my soul the
least amount of damage.
Cat
Ilya Shambat
Hi, Cat.
Here's something, OK? An ex-girlfriend who was a Marxist sent me this
song. Tell me what you think.
I left my conscience like a crying child
Locked the door behind me put the pain on file
Broken like a window I see my blindness now
And I need love not some sentimental prison
I need god not the political church
I need fire to melt frozen sleet inside me
I need love
Driving into town tired and depressed
Like a flare a street light burst and SOS
Peace comes to my rescue
And I don't know what it means
And I need love not some sentimental prison
I need god not the political church
I need fire to melt frozen sleet inside me
I need love
Broken like a window I see my blindness now
And I need love not some sentimental prison
I need god not the political church
I need fire to melt frozen sleet inside me
I need love
catb...@fwiw.com
says...
>Hi, Cat.
>
>Here's something, OK? An ex-girlfriend who was a Marxist sent me this
>song. Tell me what you think.
>
>I left my conscience like a crying child
>Locked the door behind me put the pain on file
>Broken like a window I see my blindness now
>
>And I need love not some sentimental prison
>I need god not the political church
>I need fire to melt frozen sleet inside me
>I need love
>
>Driving into town tired and depressed
>Like a flare a street light burst and SOS
>Peace comes to my rescue
>And I don't know what it means
>
>And I need love not some sentimental prison
>I need god not the political church
>I need fire to melt frozen sleet inside me
>I need love
>
>Broken like a window I see my blindness now
>
>And I need love not some sentimental prison
>I need god not the political church
>I need fire to melt frozen sleet inside me
>I need love
I need coffee and a cigarette.
Are all your girlfriends poets?
:)
Don't mind my flippancy. (I'm told it is my most annoying quality.)
But have you seen our poor newsgroup this morning? My God what an awful mess!
It's that damned Brendalee! Like a bovine Helen, she has brought Agamemnon and
the blood-thirsty Geeks (not Greeks) to the walls of our precious Troy
(alt.romance.)
Isn't it enough that we have to navigate around her gooey and plagerized song
lyrics and pathetic self-promotions? Like a mob of slatternly squatters, hurling
their debris everywhere and running down our property values, the kooks of
soc.singles have come to our doorstep.
The only part I find amusing is the reposted lurve messages that a cloying
Brendalee sent to Jackie Tokeman. (What's the word I'm looking for?)
"Macabre!"
So how are you doing darling? Have you "healed"? Have you joined the lamas in
Nepal? Have you been reading Maugham's "The Razor's Edge"?
Was this (other) poet-girlfriend of yours a real Marxist or just a neo-Marxist?
Marxism, as you well know, often alludes to nothing more ominous than an
economic interpretation of history. I am reminded of Charles Beard.
Marxism, as a faith, has no more sense in it than any other cult.
I live by this rule: No matter what I think about something, I could be dead
wrong. And I do not trust anyone who doesn't start with a presumption of their
potential wrongness.
We are too eager to believe in things. It's like a fanatical hunger. It causes
people to do desperate things. And as Thoreau tells us - "it is uncharacteristic
of wisdom to do desperate things."
Cat