How tough is dating? Is it THIS hard to find someone where there is mutual attraction?
richar...@hotmail.com
I have be told numerous times that I am attractive. I am around 5'11"
medium build (weight down from 210 to around 180 now. I found a diet that
works). I also don't think I am too demanding (maybe I am). I have made
many efforts to change things. I attend singles' functions, read a ton of
books on the dating and relationships, attended lectures (wow, I am now
intellectually wise in the subject of dating, but not experientially),
engaged in self-improvement (weight loss and management, and reading and
practicing self-improvement stuff).
There is a local dating service I tried where I got dates arranged over the
years, but I haven't had much luck. A lot of the time, I wasn't physically
attracted to the woman. The few times I was, nothing would develop. I asked
the dating service about this, and they said "well, it's dating, what do you
expect?" I even tried the approach of just trying to be a friend (if I was
not attracted and see what develops. Well, this didn't go anywhere, as any
form of any type of relationship developed.
Then, there is the use of personal ads in the paper. I got a few responses
and responded a few times (and got response back), but nothing came about it
also.
I had some success on the Net getting making contact with women, but most of
the time, they are not local (tough to manage anything where the person is
halfway across the USA from you, and you are merely friends now). Actually,
the only women I know locally are via personal ads on the Net. And I would
arguably say that it is only 2 women local I know via web ads, this excluding
women I know through church or women as co-workers. Most other email
relationships die off for multiple reasons.
I tried work, and got the cold shoulder pretty much. This is besides the
usual concerns of sexual harassment charges possibly being filed if you ask
someone out on a date. You are forced to tread lightly. It is tough trying
to ask someone and express your interest in them, when you risk facing a
lawsuit filed against you.
Well, it goes beyond this. Women I may seem to develop positive rapport with
are usually involved with someone (aka married, engaged or seriously seeing
them). Since I have no interest in being a sleeze, so that is a dead end. I
can also add the age factor to this, where I was over 10 years younger than
the women I had some rapport with, and it became obvious the age difference
was a barrier based upon my speaking with them .
When it came to trying social activities, my interests in strategy games isn't
exactly a hotspot for meeting women.
As far as church goes, in the multiple churches I went to, you could count
the number of single people on one hand. On the few times where a date was
set up, NOTHING came about. With one woman, we just weren't compatible.
With the second, the woman moved out of the area, and nothing developed
there.
So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard. What am I doing wrong,
or where may I be having a problem? Or, is it THIS hard, and that is why
people stay in bad relationships out of fear of having to go through all this
again? Needless to say, due to my experiences, I have developed the lifestyle
of a functioning single which consists of being able to adapt and do things
alone. Perhaps this might have something to do with it.
Thanks for any feedback you can provide...
- Richard Hutnik
Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
support and opponent finding for obscure/orphan games at:
http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/fortress/7537/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Courageous
> I have be told numerous times that I am attractive. I am around 5'11"
> medium build (weight down from 210 to around 180 now. I found a diet that
> works). I also don't think I am too demanding (maybe I am). I have made
> many efforts to change things. I attend singles' functions, read a ton of
Yeah. Relax, and stop being hard on yourself. You're doing fine.
> There is a local dating service I tried where I got dates arranged over the
> years, but I haven't had much luck. A lot of the time, I wasn't physically
> attracted to the woman.
Most of the women in dating services aren't attractive. The few that
are get both lots of dates, and often have other reasons for being
in the service; the main one is that they very often don't have *time*
to date. Like they work full time and go to school, too. No time to
date, right? Well then why are they in a *dating* service??! Yeeesh.
> Then, there is the use of personal ads in the paper. I got a few responses
> and responded a few times (and got response back), but nothing came about it
> also.
Stop that.
> I had some success on the Net getting making contact with women, but most of
> the time, they are not local...
http://www.aol.com. Local-->Personals. Pick the nearest metropolitan
area.
> I tried work, and got the cold shoulder pretty much.
Stop that.
> When it came to trying social activities, my interests in strategy games isn't
> exactly a hotspot for meeting women.
Yeah. The thing is, even the women who like the kind of stuff you
do aren't likely to be met through those venues. I just met a girl
who has a PhD in Theoretical Chemistry, who's into computer games
(her favorite game is Civilization), and so on. But I met her dancing.
> So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard.
Get your butt on down to a local dance center. Learn swing.
Start hanging out in a swing club once a week on the same
night. Become a regular. Meet everyone there and make new
friends. Stop worrying about dating, and start having lots
of fun.
If your area doesn't have much swing, pick country.
What you want is a *couples* dancing place. Once you get to
be good, you can meet a half dozen women a night. You'll also
be extremely comfortable with women after that. After dancing
practically cheek to cheek with hundreds of women, you develop
a certain at-easeness about you. :)
C/
richar...@hotmail.com
Courageous <jkra...@san.rr.com> wrote:
> > I am a 31 single white male. I have had bad luck when it has come to
dating.
> > I have be told numerous times that I am attractive. I am around 5'11"
> > medium build (weight down from 210 to around 180 now. I found a diet that
> > works). I also don't think I am too demanding (maybe I am). I have made
> > many efforts to change things. I attend singles' functions, read a ton of
> > books on the dating and relationships, attended lectures...
> Yeah. Relax, and stop being hard on yourself. You're doing fine.
I didn't say above, but I will now, apparently I am rare exception because
I never had a girlfriend. This doesn't sound "fine" to me.
> Most of the women in dating services aren't attractive. The few that
> are get both lots of dates, and often have other reasons for being
> in the service; the main one is that they very often don't have *time*
> to date. Like they work full time and go to school, too. No time to
> date, right? Well then why are they in a *dating* service??! Yeeesh.
Well, I can live with this. I thought people used dating services because
they wanted to get better results than the usual method of meeting someone
randomly through life. Dating services provide profiles that let you screen
people so your choices are better.
> > Then, there is the use of personal ads in the paper. I got a few responses
> > and responded a few times (and got response back), but nothing came about it
> > also.
> Stop that.
Well, it was one approach. I guess personal ads are similar to dating
services also, in that similar women who use personal ads use dating services.
> > I had some success on the Net getting making contact with women, but most of
> > the time, they are not local...
> http://www.aol.com. Local-->Personals. Pick the nearest metropolitan
> area.
Well, point being that the "nearest" metropolitan area where I am is NYC.
Since I am about 2 hours north of NYC, that consists of a relationship that is
long distance.
> > I tried work, and got the cold shoulder pretty much.
> Stop that.
Ok, no classified ads and no work =). Wow, my choices ARE narrowing =).
> Get your butt on down to a local dance center. Learn swing.
> Start hanging out in a swing club once a week on the same
> night. Become a regular. Meet everyone there and make new
> friends. Stop worrying about dating, and start having lots
> of fun.
>
> If your area doesn't have much swing, pick country.
For me, the motivation for going to it would be to meet women. To do
ANYTHING just to meet women won't work well, in my opinion. Dancing is not
fun for me. I think there is a principle you are driving at hear. Maybe I
could take a cooking class.
> What you want is a *couples* dancing place. Once you get to
> be good, you can meet a half dozen women a night. You'll also
> be extremely comfortable with women after that. After dancing
> practically cheek to cheek with hundreds of women, you develop
> a certain at-easeness about you. :)
I may have a problem with "at easeness" but I don't think I do.
Hmm... dancing. Thanks for the help...
- Richard
Brock Hannibal
> > When it came to trying social activities, my interests in strategy games isn't
> > exactly a hotspot for meeting women.
>
> Yeah. The thing is, even the women who like the kind of stuff you
> do aren't likely to be met through those venues. I just met a girl
> who has a PhD in Theoretical Chemistry, who's into computer games
> (her favorite game is Civilization), and so on. But I met her dancing.
>
> > So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard.
>
> Get your butt on down to a local dance center. Learn swing.
> Start hanging out in a swing club once a week on the same
> night. Become a regular. Meet everyone there and make new
> friends. Stop worrying about dating, and start having lots
> of fun.
>
> If your area doesn't have much swing, pick country.
No, anything but country! AAAH!
> What you want is a *couples* dancing place. Once you get to
> be good, you can meet a half dozen women a night. You'll also
> be extremely comfortable with women after that. After dancing
> practically cheek to cheek with hundreds of women, you develop
> a certain at-easeness about you. :)
I've met and dated more really nice, fit, sexy, non-alkie, non-druggie
women out dancing than through any other activity I can name. This swing
revival and ballroom dancing revival thing is a godsend for a single guy
who can dance! Woohoo! Bust a move!
--
Brock
Onesty
richar...@hotmail.com schreef in artikel
<7gsed0$393$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> I am a 31 single white male. I have had bad luck when it has come to
dating.
> I have be told numerous times that I am attractive. I am around 5'11"
> medium build (weight down from 210 to around 180 now. I found a diet that
> works). I also don't think I am too demanding (maybe I am). I have made
> many efforts to change things. I attend singles' functions, read a ton of
> books on the dating and relationships, attended lectures (wow, I am now
> intellectually wise in the subject of dating, but not experientially),
> engaged in self-improvement (weight loss and management, and reading and
> practicing self-improvement stuff).
>
> There is a local dating service I tried where I got dates arranged over
the
> years, but I haven't had much luck. A lot of the time, I wasn't
physically
> attracted to the woman. The few times I was, nothing would develop. I
asked
> the dating service about this, and they said "well, it's dating, what do
you
> expect?" I even tried the approach of just trying to be a friend (if I
was
> not attracted and see what develops. Well, this didn't go anywhere, as
any
> form of any type of relationship developed.
>
> Then, there is the use of personal ads in the paper. I got a few
responses
> and responded a few times (and got response back), but nothing came about
it
> also.
>
> I had some success on the Net getting making contact with women, but most
of
> the time, they are not local ....
<CUT>
Are there still Americans that are alone??
Don't you have the yahoo personals site, which seems very good and free to
me. I wish there was a Yahoo Belgium. You can match like you want...and
locally... don't you have hobby's? Try finding someone with the same
hobby's... Just an idea.
gd luck
--
Onesty,
If at the station 1 steals the bike of 2,
then why steals 2 the bike of 3?
http://users.skynet.be/onesty
Courageous
> women out dancing than through any other activity I can name. This swing
> revival and ballroom dancing revival thing is a godsend for a single guy
> who can dance! Woohoo! Bust a move!
Yeah, no shit! Want a new concept? Imagine being a guy
who can dance, knows all the moves, but goes to the
beginning dance class to "just practice".
If you tire of the Swing scene, move over to the Blues.
You can dance swing to the Blues (oh boy, can you!), you'll
be the best dancer there by far, and once the girls
see you with another girl, any girl in the place will
dance with you.
I didn't like swing until I got really practiced at it
and smooth. And then I realized I was having a whole
helluva lot of fun...
I even have rhythm now. How 'bout dat?
:)-
C/
richar...@hotmail.com
"Onesty" <bs24...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Are there still Americans that are alone??
It seems like, particularly in the area I am in. I am about 90 minutes
north of NYC or so. I run into multiple single men (and a few single women)
who complain about the lack of singles in the area they want to date. Dating
services repeatly fail in this area (only one has survived), and the
newspaper single ads aren't great shakes either. I also attended multiple
single's functions in the area, and they mostly had women in their 40s (I am
31), and the functions didn't last. Church groups aren't much better either.
Again, the church groups show the same demographic pattern I observe
elsewhere.
> Don't you have the yahoo personals site, which seems very good and free to
> me. I wish there was a Yahoo Belgium. You can match like you want...and
> locally... don't you have hobby's? Try finding someone with the same
> hobby's... Just an idea.
On the hobbies front, my interest in intellectual pursuits and strategy
games in particular doesn't draw women (try attending a lecture on logical
pardoxes and see many women show up). So, in a nutshell, the only way I
would end up getting involved in certain social activities to meet women
would be to meet women, which sort of defeats the motivation to do the hobby
and continue it. Like, in a previous post, someone suggested I take up
dancing. Well, I don't like to dance, so my motivation to do dancing would
be to meet women I could develop relationships with. Well, I have been
trying www.classifieds2000.com and I did try the yahoo one. Outside of some
exceptions (actually NONE from either of these two sources have panned out),
the mail eventually dries up and dies. I only really got a few positive
responses through posting in the American Single's web site. To be fair to
Classifieds 2000, I got multiple responses, even one from a woman from Brazil
who is very attractive, but who had this accelerated time table to get
married, in addition to a few weird personal quirks that made you wonder
about here (she had this fetish for the video game character in the
Playstation game Final Fantasy 7, or so she said). Usually, however, the
email soon dries up. I do get tired of having to send out multiple "hey, you
still out there?" type messages in order to keep the email going. It does
make me wonder if maybe my email is having problems, but I am sort of
doubting that. Needless to say, it is kind of like trying to find water in a
desert most of the time.
- Richard Hutnik
Brock Hannibal
>
> > I've met and dated more really nice, fit, sexy, non-alkie, non-druggie
> > women out dancing than through any other activity I can name. This swing
> > revival and ballroom dancing revival thing is a godsend for a single guy
> > who can dance! Woohoo! Bust a move!
>
> Yeah, no shit! Want a new concept? Imagine being a guy
> who can dance, knows all the moves, but goes to the
> beginning dance class to "just practice".
Talk about your successful speed seduction technique. That's a sure fire
winner.
>
> If you tire of the Swing scene, move over to the Blues.
> You can dance swing to the Blues (oh boy, can you!),
I use East Coast Swing and Lindy Hop for the more traditional "swing
era" music and a combination of Lindy, West Coast and East Coast steps
for the blues. Besides if you can lead well the women who can follow
won't really have any problem with the mixture even if it includes
syncopations and improvisations.
> you'll
> be the best dancer there by far, and once the girls
> see you with another girl, any girl in the place will
> dance with you.
Got the T-shirt.
> I didn't like swing until I got really practiced at it
> and smooth. And then I realized I was having a whole
> helluva lot of fun...
>
> I even have rhythm now. How 'bout dat?
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
--
Brock
Courageous
> > who can dance, knows all the moves, but goes to the
> > beginning dance class to "just practice".
> Talk about your successful speed seduction technique.
> That's a sure fire winner.
Yeah, like "no, duh, dude!" :)
> > If you tire of the Swing scene, move over to the Blues.
> > You can dance swing to the Blues (oh boy, can you!),
> I use East Coast Swing and Lindy Hop for the more traditional "swing
> era" music and a combination of Lindy, West Coast and East Coast steps
> for the blues. Besides if you can lead well the women who can follow
> won't really have any problem with the mixture even if it includes
> syncopations and improvisations.
I started with Street Swing, and now I'm just learning the
basics of East Coast. Street is a simplified East Coast,
so once I have the various basic steps down, everything is
the same. Street Swing is excellent for the Blues. East
Coast has a more formal feel to it. IMO. But as to why
I'm picking up East Coast, well... let's just say that
"syncopation" isn't in the Street Swing vocabulary. :)-
After I have the footwork, timing, rhythm, and syncopation
skills down from EC, it's on to Lindy... *cringe*. Hard
dance, that.
> Got the T-shirt.
Eh?
> It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
He's got all the answers we all wanna know...
C/
Courageous
> and continue it. Like, in a previous post, someone suggested I take up
> dancing. Well, I don't like to dance, so my motivation to do dancing would
> be to meet women I could develop relationships with.
Have you tried couples dancing before? If so, did you try it for more
than 20 minutes? Have you considered that possibly it is an acquired
taste?
C/
Courageous
> email soon dries up. I do get tired of having to send out multiple "hey, you
> still out there?" type messages in order to keep the email going. It does
> make me wonder if maybe my email is having problems, but I am sort of
> doubting that. Needless to say, it is kind of like trying to find water in a
> desert most of the time.
You are flubbing your email meeting game. You go from 1 or 2
email messages, to giving her your phone number and specifying
an EXACT time to call. She calls, and then gets to hear your
voice. It gets *personal* at this point.
I have *lots* of experience meeting women from online.
Trust me on this.
You need to get out of the impersonal email domain and into
personal contact as soon as possible. The trick is doing it
in a way that makes the woman feel comfortable. Hence giving
her *your* phone number (but nevertheless dictating the time
of the call), having her call *you*, eventually meeting (in
seperate cars) at a mutually agreed upon public place, and
so on.
When I was doing the online thing, it almost always went
like this:
1. Email contact.
2. One exchange of email personal details.
3. If it sounded good, send her my phone number and tell
her EXACTLY when to call (Thursday night at 7:00 PM).
4. Phone conversation. At end of conversation, suggest we
meet for coffee at XXXXX location.
5. Meet her in person.
Unfortunately for me, almost all of these women were prime
examples of how well a good photographer can really touch
someone up. I always felt lied to when I finally met them.
The seldom ever looked anything like their pictures.......
I finally did learn to request pictures that were taken of
them by friends with them hanging out, around the house,
being themselves, and so on. Much more insightful, that.
C/
p.s. stop sending "still out there?" messages. With those
girls you have already blown it and she has already lost
interest.
Brock Hannibal
> After I have the footwork, timing, rhythm, and syncopation
> skills down from EC, it's on to Lindy... *cringe*. Hard
> dance, that.
It's not so bad. There's a lot of cross over from ECS. BTW, I've never
heard of "Street" swing except in reference to Lindy which was never a
formalized dance, although there are tons of variations to the step,
step, rock-step 6 count footwork. Lindy is just an eight count,
sequence. Step, step, triple-step, step, step, triple-step or one, two,
three and four, five, six, seven and eight. Performance Lindy requires
mucho athleticism but social Lindy ain't bad. You're not gonna be doin'
aerials on a crowded dance floor anyway unless you want to be lynched.
> > Got the T-shirt.
>
> Eh?
Been there, done that.
> > It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
>
> He's got all the answers we all wanna know...
Get hep to the jive, daddy-o.
--
Brock
richar...@hotmail.com
Courageous <jkra...@san.rr.com> wrote:
> You are flubbing your email meeting game. You go from 1 or 2
> email messages, to giving her your phone number and specifying
> an EXACT time to call. She calls, and then gets to hear your
> voice. It gets *personal* at this point.
Ok, thanks for this correction. I was trying to be more laid back with
things. I also was a wee bit concerned with things because of my situation.
Yes, I know this is a problem area, but if it is so huge, I think then there
is a problem. I work in the area where my parents live. To help on the cost
front for me, and to help them out, I rent a room at their place and the
number I would give out is that one. I had concerns if my mother picked up
if the woman called, that it would terminate things there. Anyhow, I think
the exact time would be a good idea that way I could insure that I answered
the phone.
> You need to get out of the impersonal email domain and into
> personal contact as soon as possible. The trick is doing it
> in a way that makes the woman feel comfortable. Hence giving
> her *your* phone number (but nevertheless dictating the time
> of the call), having her call *you*, eventually meeting (in
> seperate cars) at a mutually agreed upon public place, and
> so on.
Ok, thanks. I didn't want to feel like I was hurrying things too much and
sound desperate or something. I am kinda counterbalancing the way I was in
the past rushing things too much.
> p.s. stop sending "still out there?" messages. With those
> girls you have already blown it and she has already lost
> interest.
Ok, I will interpret no answer as being not interested, not that she was
real busy. I mean, I would do the email back and forth a few times, but it
would stop. Then, I would wonder what is up. Perhaps I overrelied on email
too much. It is such a low risk way to communicate, that I guess my
overdependence on it isn't a good thing.
- Richard
Tom Wright
deliberately TRY and get dates, then it simply won't work, and the few times
that you do succeed, chances are that you won't be compatible anyway. My
advice would be to simply 'get out more', not only for the sake of getting a
date, but also to further improve your own lifestyle.
Also, I think your comments about sexual harassment and lawsuits were
shall we say some what exaggerated? I could be wrong, but perhaps it shows
a slightly 'off putting attitude towards women in general? Also, I really
don't think you have to worry about asking women at work out on dates, maybe
things are different here in the UK, but SEXUAL HARASSMENT...surly not.
Regards
Tom
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Tom Wright - tomw...@altavista.net - FAX: 001 815 364 3835
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
t...@delphi.com
> Also, I think your comments about sexual harassment and lawsuits were
>shall we say some what exaggerated? I could be wrong, but perhaps it shows
>a slightly 'off putting attitude towards women in general? Also, I really
>don't think you have to worry about asking women at work out on dates, maybe
>things are different here in the UK, but SEXUAL HARASSMENT...surly not.
harassment are, sadly, quite accurate. You have no idea how bad it
is here.
DB
Steve Chaney
>
>> Don't you have the yahoo personals site, which seems very good and free to
>> me. I wish there was a Yahoo Belgium. You can match like you want...and
>> locally... don't you have hobby's? Try finding someone with the same
>> hobby's... Just an idea.
>
> On the hobbies front, my interest in intellectual pursuits and strategy
>games in particular doesn't draw women (try attending a lecture on logical
>pardoxes and see many women show up).
Well see that's your problem. You need to become proficient in the ten
accepted lifestyles and hobbies of Hollywood.
You're never gonna get laid if you don't comply with this rule.
Remember:
Conform to what Hollywood tells you
Do not question the cultural authority
Do not deviate from the trend
You'll get laid in no time!
>Like, in a previous post, someone suggested I take up
>dancing. Well, I don't like to dance, so my motivation to do dancing would
>be to meet women I could develop relationships with.
There is a spoon.
The Agents have found you.
>I only really got a few positive
>responses through posting in the American Single's web site. To be fair to
>Classifieds 2000, I got multiple responses, even one from a woman from Brazil
>who is very attractive, but who had this accelerated time table to get
>married, in addition to a few weird personal quirks that made you wonder
>about here (she had this fetish for the video game character in the
>Playstation game Final Fantasy 7, or so she said).
Gotta be Cloud Strife or Barrett, right?
>- Richard Hutnik
>
>Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
>support and opponent finding for obscure/orphan games at:
>http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/fortress/7537/
Pointers:
1) I'm being sarcastic.
2) You might or might not catch horrible flak from a few people about what
your lifestyle is. (Try saying the word "anime" and see how many
conformists swarm you with insults...) This possibility being very real, I
leave you with a magic charm demon repellent, so graciously discovered by
Dawn O' The Dead:
"One should respect public opinion insofar as is necessary to avoid
starvation and to keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond
this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny, and is
likely to interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways."
- Bertrand Russell
About the Final Fantasy 7 fan - slash - weird chick you ran into... do you
think there might be some of you in her? If you keep running into women
like this (I don't know if you are), what's to say you're not seeing
yourself in the mirror and are not being disgusted? This might not all be
*their* fault, you know. You might want to keep that in mind, even if at
the same time it is true that men whose tastes wander off the path of the
great hivemind which is America tend to fuck up their romantic chances with
the other workerbee clones (otherwise referred to as "sheep"). You might
also want to leave your area and look around in another city.
All of the women I've dated in Los Angeles and that area, weren't born
there, for instance. Nor were they yet converted into workerbee clones.
Hell I'm non-compliant too. My main favorite hobbies are anime, computers,
games and politics. Hell that should bring out all the Agents in the
Matrix!
-- Steve, Tank!!
richar...@hotmail.com
"Tom Wright" <tomw...@altavista.net> wrote:
> It sounds to me as though you are simply TRYING TOO HARD! If you
> deliberately TRY and get dates, then it simply won't work, and the few times
> that you do succeed, chances are that you won't be compatible anyway. My
> advice would be to simply 'get out more', not only for the sake of getting a
> date, but also to further improve your own lifestyle.
Try too hard? How about I am in a class work related, and once out of
maybe 3 classes I see someone in the class I try to get to know. And that
goes nowhere. I hardly every ask any women out. On the rare occation I try,
it doesn't work. And, how will I know if I am compatible if I am not even
able to get the date with the person? In non-work situations, the only thing
"getting out more" results in for me, is bumping into women once and only
once. This would be at a bookstore and whatnot. Not exactly the place to
develop some rapport. I am also NOT a bar person.
> Also, I think your comments about sexual harassment and lawsuits were
> shall we say some what exaggerated? I could be wrong, but perhaps it shows
> a slightly 'off putting attitude towards women in general? Also, I really
> don't think you have to worry about asking women at work out on dates, maybe
> things are different here in the UK, but SEXUAL HARASSMENT...surly not.
In the United States, it isn't, although maybe I am overly concerned.
However, here, asking out a woman on a date, complimenting how she looks or
relating to her in ANY way that may be construed as you being physically
attracted to here, can be grounds for a sexual harassment suite. It is that
annoying here. In order NOT to be considered engaging in sexual harassment,
you need to treat the woman like a co-worker who doesn't have a gender.
- Richard Hutnik
Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
support and opponent finding for obscure/orphan games at:
http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/fortress/7537/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Zilbermann
>Date: 5/6/99 12:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <7gsed0$393$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
You might try taking up something new which is good for meeting women.
For example, I dance. But it sounds like you have problems with women even
after meeting them. A therapist might be able to help, but not all of them are
good.
richar...@hotmail.com
The problem I would have, if I do have one, is that the few times where I
have developed any ongoing relationship of any sort with the woman, I have
not found any of them to be physically attractive to me. I am not saying I
was attracted to them BEFORE the relationship started, just that I don't
develop relationships with women I do find attractive.
My problem is that women I find attractive I never develop anything with and
any women I do develop something with, I don't find attractive. Long distance
contact is another thing, and there have been a few women I maintained contact
with I found attractive, via email. Again, something about the distance issue
might play a factor.
I have been told I don't try hard enough, and that I try too hard. Also, one
view is that I am too picky. The other one is that I am not picky enough.
Well, maybe I just have had bad luck. Go figure...
Courageous
> real busy. I mean, I would do the email back and forth a few times, but it
> would stop. Then, I would wonder what is up. Perhaps I overrelied on email
> too much.
The mistake is an easy one to make. Just remember that email
is VERY IMPERSONAL. Your average person feels no connection
or draw to you through email, except in rare circumstances.
Don't get me wrong. It's good that you don't want to rush.
But if you think about it, one or two email messages, followed
by "call me Tuesday at 9:00 PM Pacific Time" isn't particularly
rushing it. You are just making the connection.
Email is *NOT* a connection. The phone is.
Once you get to the phone, concentrate on having a very friendly
chat. I may have a bit more practice than you (?), but I can
make a girl feel comfortable with me in one phone call. So, at
that point, hesitating is sending her a bad signal.
So up the connection. Say: "Hey, let's get coffee sometime."
When she says yes (and she will if you warm her up correctly),
poke around until you find a spot that she knows where it is.
Preferably in her area, so she's doubly comfortable.
Meet her there.
Don't offer to pick her up.
Until she's met you, you're just some stranger from the internet.
Keep that in mind. It's important to close quickly and cleanly,
but you have to know what NOT to do. Don't even TRY to turn your
first visit into a date.
It's just a meeting. A connection.
Please realize that you'll fail to "click" with a large percentage
of these women... on the internet, you have to work NUMBERS.
It's most tiring. That's why I quit.
Swing dancing is about a hundred times better! :)-
C/
"I don't think I've ever seen him
without a kitten on his hand --
he always swings his arms
to the Big Bad Voodoo Band."
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> > I am a 31 single white male. I have had bad luck when it has come to dating.
> > I have be told numerous times that I am attractive. I am around 5'11"
> > medium build (weight down from 210 to around 180 now. I found a diet that
> > works). I also don't think I am too demanding (maybe I am). I have made
> > many efforts to change things. I attend singles' functions, read a ton of
>
> Yeah. Relax, and stop being hard on yourself. You're doing fine.
>
> > years, but I haven't had much luck. A lot of the time, I wasn't physically
> > attracted to the woman.
>
> are get both lots of dates, and often have other reasons for being
> in the service; the main one is that they very often don't have *time*
> to date. Like they work full time and go to school, too. No time to
> date, right? Well then why are they in a *dating* service??! Yeeesh.
>
> > and responded a few times (and got response back), but nothing came about it
> > also.
>
>
> > I had some success on the Net getting making contact with women, but most of
>
> http://www.aol.com. Local-->Personals. Pick the nearest metropolitan
> area.
>
>
> Stop that.
>
> > exactly a hotspot for meeting women.
>
> Yeah. The thing is, even the women who like the kind of stuff you
> do aren't likely to be met through those venues. I just met a girl
> who has a PhD in Theoretical Chemistry, who's into computer games
> (her favorite game is Civilization), and so on. But I met her dancing.
>
> > So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard.
>
> Get your butt on down to a local dance center. Learn swing.
> Start hanging out in a swing club once a week on the same
> night. Become a regular. Meet everyone there and make new
> friends. Stop worrying about dating, and start having lots
> of fun.
>
> If your area doesn't have much swing, pick country.
Ugh.....country??? Used to be good, until about 1975-80...
now, it's the redneck equivalent of rap...music for uncultured buffoons.
>
> What you want is a *couples* dancing place. Once you get to
> be good, you can meet a half dozen women a night. You'll also
> be extremely comfortable with women after that. After dancing
> practically cheek to cheek with hundreds of women, you develop
> a certain at-easeness about you. :)
>
> C/
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
--The wise man is mocked by fools.
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> > I've met and dated more really nice, fit, sexy, non-alkie, non-druggie
> > women out dancing than through any other activity I can name. This swing
> > revival and ballroom dancing revival thing is a godsend for a single guy
> > who can dance! Woohoo! Bust a move!
>
> who can dance, knows all the moves, but goes to the
> beginning dance class to "just practice".
>
> be the best dancer there by far, and once the girls
> see you with another girl, any girl in the place will
> dance with you.
Oh yes...I used to do that in college back in the 80's.
Took "Ballroom Dance" with a then-girlfriend...she was uncoordinated
as all get-out, but I used to go to this bar that played lot of
alternative stuff...Ministry and OINGO BOINGO even! It was not
uncommon for FIVE DIFFERENT WOMEN to drag me out onto the dance
floor.
Man, I miss those days...if I knew then what I know now ...
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> Courageous wrote:
> >
> > > I've met and dated more really nice, fit, sexy, non-alkie, non-druggie
> > > women out dancing than through any other activity I can name. This swing
> > > revival and ballroom dancing revival thing is a godsend for a single guy
> > > who can dance! Woohoo! Bust a move!
> >
> > Yeah, no shit! Want a new concept? Imagine being a guy
> > who can dance, knows all the moves, but goes to the
> > beginning dance class to "just practice".
>
> winner.
> >
> > You can dance swing to the Blues (oh boy, can you!),
>
> era" music and a combination of Lindy, West Coast and East Coast steps
> for the blues. Besides if you can lead well the women who can follow
> won't really have any problem with the mixture even if it includes
> syncopations and improvisations.
I found about 10 years ago that the BEST girls are those who
are just a Leeeeeeeeettle bit tipsy...
Girls are always practicing dancing with each other, and so,
when they dance with a guy, they always try to lead themselves
into a spin, or what have you. 2 drinks in her, and that desire
to lead is completely dissolved, and she will follow perfectly....
as in, under those conditions, you can take the hands of a girl
who doesn't know the first thing about ballroom/swing and she
will follow like a pro!
>
> > you'll
> > be the best dancer there by far, and once the girls
> > see you with another girl, any girl in the place will
> > dance with you.
>
> Got the T-shirt.
Get one that says "Mr. Bubble" on it!
>
>
> > I didn't like swing until I got really practiced at it
> > and smooth. And then I realized I was having a whole
> > helluva lot of fun...
> >
> > I even have rhythm now. How 'bout dat?
>
> It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
>
> --
> Brock
matrix
<richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7gtmp8$8cq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> The problem I would have, if I do have one, is that the few times where I
> have developed any ongoing relationship of any sort with the woman, I have
> not found any of them to be physically attractive to me. I am not saying
I
> was attracted to them BEFORE the relationship started, just that I don't
> develop relationships with women I do find attractive.
>
> My problem is that women I find attractive I never develop anything with
Why not?...
and
> any women I do develop something with, I don't find attractive.
Hmmm.....are you more cautious in your approach with women
you find attractive than with other women? If so, perhaps you should
approach attractive women in the SAME way you approach those
you don't find attractive?
Philip
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I have been told I don't try hard enough, and that I try too hard. Also, one
> view is that I am too picky. The other one is that I am not picky enough.
> Well, maybe I just have had bad luck. Go figure...
> - Richard Hutnik
Here is what I think, not just for you but for anyone searching.
1. Overcoming personal fears
2. Belief in self-worth & dignity - faith in yourself radiates security
3. Exposure - people must deserve love, but they must search for it
4. Not looking for the impossible
5. Not rushing to accept or reject
6. Ask yourself why you are often rejected - a person must avoid falling into
the trap of finding easy rationalizations that seem to explain everything,
but explain nothing.
7. Sustaining the longing - a promising love is made to grow not only by what
goes on BETWEEN the two when they are together, but also by what goes on
INSIDE them when they are apart.
8. No misrepresentation
9. Not expecting success with every trial
10. Commitment - seriousness & preseverance
Hope this helps some.
richar...@hotmail.com
"matrix" <a___m...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > My problem is that women I find attractive I never develop anything with
> Why not?...
I can't even get a date. This is what I mean by ANYTHING. Anything beyond
being an acquintance goes nowhere.
> Hmmm.....are you more cautious in your approach with women
> you find attractive than with other women? If so, perhaps you should
> approach attractive women in the SAME way you approach those
> you don't find attractive?
I don't think so. My wondering is why is it that I don't find women
attractive I develop rapport with? I was wondering if there was something
with me that makes a woman become physically unattractive to me if she is
available and interested. It is almost like clockwork. Of course, the clock
I am referring to here doesn't run that often.
- Richard Hutnik
Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
support and opponent finding for obscure/orphan games at:
http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/fortress/7537/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
richar...@hotmail.com
gunhed@net_999.com (Steve Chaney) wrote:
> Well see that's your problem. You need to become proficient in the ten
> accepted lifestyles and hobbies of Hollywood.
>
> You're never gonna get laid if you don't comply with this rule.
>
> Remember:
> Conform to what Hollywood tells you
> Do not question the cultural authority
> Do not deviate from the trend
>
> You'll get laid in no time!
the cosmetic surgery of the star, wear the clothes of the stars, and have the
mannerisms of the star. While I know you are joking here, there is truth in
this in that you appeal to the sex symbols of the era and remind the woman of
the star she idolizes. Of course, if I wanted to get laid in no time, I could
pay for it. And, it would certainly be cheaper than the "emulate Hollywood"
approach =).
> Gotta be Cloud Strife or Barrett, right?
No, it was Sepheroth. She even though old Seph was really the hero in the
game and was misunderstood.
> Pointers:
> 1) I'm being sarcastic.
> 2) You might or might not catch horrible flak from a few people about what
> your lifestyle is. (Try saying the word "anime" and see how many
> conformists swarm you with insults...) This possibility being very real, I
> leave you with a magic charm demon repellent, so graciously discovered by
> Dawn O' The Dead:
I think my lifestyle is a hodge-podge of things I have done to adjust to
single life (never having a girlfriend does this), and perhaps I am
comfortable with it.
> "One should respect public opinion insofar as is necessary to avoid
> starvation and to keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond
> this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny, and is
> likely to interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways."
> - Bertrand Russell
>
> About the Final Fantasy 7 fan - slash - weird chick you ran into... do you
> think there might be some of you in her? If you keep running into women
> like this (I don't know if you are), what's to say you're not seeing
> yourself in the mirror and are not being disgusted?
Well, just that I like video games, that is it. I won't know if there was
more, because we only corresponded for a few weeks, via email and ICQ a bit.
She did seem in a hurry, breaking off communications with 5 other guys she
was talking too (I was told). Then I find out she wanted to get married by
the end of the year, which wouldn't of happened with me. I told her to slow
down a bit. Well, I didn't hear from her in a few weeks. I wrote her and
said I was disappointed I didn't hear from her, and was wondering (after what
I said I wondered if she didn't want to talk to me anymore). She said she
was not and she didn't want to talk to me anymore, because I made my
decision. She then told me not to write her back. She said I put her life
"at risk" or something because she sacrificed a lot by setting aside time to
talk to me. She said she didn't even get to feed her cat regularly. I
suppose that such is expected (her quirkiness) because she was supposedly a
rock star down in Brazil (she said she even met Steven Vay, a drummer or
something). Actually, I wasn't too disgusted by the whole thing, just
somewhat disappointed. She had these quirks, but I managed them. Although
some of the quirks gave me a bit of the creeps, I viewed them just as quirks.
Oh well, you move on. Things fizzled out so fast, it is tough to lament
things like this.
>This might not all be
> *their* fault, you know. You might want to keep that in mind, even if at
> the same time it is true that men whose tastes wander off the path of the
> great hivemind which is America tend to fuck up their romantic chances with
> the other workerbee clones (otherwise referred to as "sheep"). You might
> also want to leave your area and look around in another city.
I am looking to move out of the area where I am, for career reasons mostly.
> All of the women I've dated in Los Angeles and that area, weren't born
> there, for instance. Nor were they yet converted into workerbee clones.
> Hell I'm non-compliant too. My main favorite hobbies are anime, computers,
> games and politics. Hell that should bring out all the Agents in the
> Matrix!
Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <7gud6q$9hs$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "matrix" <a___m...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > My problem is that women I find attractive I never develop anything with
> > Why not?...
> I can't even get a date. This is what I mean by ANYTHING. Anything beyond
> being an acquintance goes nowhere.
>
> > Hmmm.....are you more cautious in your approach with women
> > you find attractive than with other women? If so, perhaps you should
> > approach attractive women in the SAME way you approach those
> > you don't find attractive?
>
> I don't think so. My wondering is why is it that I don't find women
> attractive I develop rapport with? I was wondering if there was something
> with me that makes a woman become physically unattractive to me if she is
> available and interested. It is almost like clockwork. Of course, the clock
> I am referring to here doesn't run that often.
>
> - Richard Hutnik
What seems a sudden loss of physical attraction is actually a gradually
increasing dissatisfaction with the personality of the women.
MF
> However, here, asking out a woman on a date, complimenting how she looks or
> relating to her in ANY way that may be construed as you being physically
> attracted to here, can be grounds for a sexual harassment suite. It is that
> annoying here. In order NOT to be considered engaging in sexual harassment,
> you need to treat the woman like a co-worker who doesn't have a gender.
Oh.. poor Americans... since your life was too easy, you needed feminism
to make it hard enough... ;-)
Ehm... I'm sorry, but I could'nt resist... I think nothing is funny like
your "politically correctness", apart of this, Here in Italy we have the
exact opposite problem, the TRUE harassment is almost always unpunished.
It's a shame in both countries.
To be back at the point of your original message... Yes, it IS so hard.
You don't need culture, intelligence, sweetness, or riches. You just
need luck, big luck.
I too think, like you said before, that most people keep a bad
relationship, with someone they don't truly like, because of the fear of
remaining alone. I have seen many friends in this condition, but divorce
is the logical conclusion of most of these stories. I really know more
divorced men (aged over 35) than married ones.
Oh... that's enough sad considerations... let's go back to happyness.
:)
Bye,
Marcello
Dianne
> It seems like, particularly in the area I am in. I am about 90 minutes
>north of NYC or so. I run into multiple single men (and a few single women)
>who complain about the lack of singles in the area they want to date. Dating
>services repeatly fail in this area (only one has survived), and the
>newspaper single ads aren't great shakes either. I also attended multiple
>single's functions in the area, and they mostly had women in their 40s (I am
>31), and the functions didn't last. Church groups aren't much better either.
> Again, the church groups show the same demographic pattern I observe
>elsewhere.
Interesting off topic side. I read someplace the other day that with
prenatal genetic engineering parents can choose the sex of their
children. On survey 90% of the 2/3rds of couples who said they'd like
to choose the sex wanted male children. While the sexual predjuices
are well worth investigating here one must also think of how such a
society would end up. Basically, there would be more men then women.
Prehaps the value of being female in that society would go up?
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
Dianne
> You might try taking up something new which is good for meeting women.
>For example, I dance. But it sounds like you have problems with women even
>after meeting them. A therapist might be able to help, but not all of them are
>good.
Not everyone likes to dance. The gentleman mentioned the fact that he
doesn't really like to dance too. There are tonnes of great ways to
meet women. Join interest groups for instance. There are millions of
different types out there. I am sure the gentleman has more interests
then computer gaming. I always recommend some sort of outdoors group.
There are always some really nice women in these types of groups. He
might also want to take a class, such as photography. Be careful,
however, because such a class might be infested with blue haired old
ladies.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
richar...@hotmail.com
nutm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > I don't think so. My wondering is why is it that I don't find women
> > attractive I develop rapport with? I was wondering if there was something
> > with me that makes a woman become physically unattractive to me if she is
> > available and interested. It is almost like clockwork. Of course, the
clock
> > I am referring to here doesn't run that often.
> >
> > - Richard Hutnik
>
> What seems a sudden loss of physical attraction is actually a gradually
> increasing dissatisfaction with the personality of the women.
Actually, the physical attraction was never there to begin with on my part,
so it never decreased. It just seems like the only women I am able to
develop any rapport with, to at least the friendship level, are women I am
not physically attracted to.
- Richard Hutnik
Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
support and opponent finding for obscure/orphan games at:
http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/fortress/7537/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
t...@delphi.com
>Interesting off topic side. I read someplace the other day that with
>prenatal genetic engineering parents can choose the sex of their
>children. On survey 90% of the 2/3rds of couples who said they'd like
>to choose the sex wanted male children. While the sexual predjuices
>are well worth investigating here one must also think of how such a
>society would end up. Basically, there would be more men then women.
female children are aborted or abandoned, and male children are
kept. There are already millions more men than women in the younger
age groups, soon to be tens of millions. There are already instances
of women being kidnapped.
>Prehaps the value of being female in that society would go up?
While in the US the government does everything in its power to thwart
the efforts of men marrying "foreign" women, in Japan things are the
opposite. In rural areas, where apparently the demographics result in
more men than women, efforts are made to help these men find wives
overseas, usually in the Philippines.
DB
Courageous
> female children are aborted or abandoned, and male children are
> kept. There are already millions more men than women in the younger
> age groups, soon to be tens of millions.
It's hilarious, really. Can you say "evolution in action,"
little boys and girls?
<insert sick dry laughter here>
C/
Courageous
> you find attractive than with other women? If so, perhaps you should
> approach attractive women in the SAME way you approach those
> you don't find attractive?
Spoken like a true Ladies' Man. :)
C/
Courageous
>
> Ugh.....country??? Used to be good, until about 1975-80...
> now, it's the redneck equivalent of rap...music for uncultured buffoons.
I hate Country myself. Ptfuui! :)
But seriously, it's the other big couples dance scene in my
area. Biggest dance floors in the county (San Diego) are in
Country Western bars. AFAIK.
I prefer to dance street swing to Swing, Rockabilly, Retro
Rock, and the Blues myself.
C/
Courageous
> so it never decreased. It just seems like the only women I am able to
> develop any rapport with, to at least the friendship level, are women I am
> not physically attracted to.
Someone else pointed out (and rightly, I believe) that it is
likely that your behavior towards the women you are attracted
to is different than those you are not. Believe me, when you
are strongly attracted to a woman, she *knows it*. Sometimes
the differences are subtle, but humans are expert at picking
up subtleties.
I was talking to two of my girlfriends about this the other
day. When a guy just wants to be friends with a girl, he often
does not go into the personal questions game. But if he wants
more, he often goes into the job/last boyfriend/etc routine.
You may or may not do this, but that's not the point. It's
highly likely that your behavior towards women you are attracted
to is subtley different than towards those you are not.
I'm not saying you should change this at all, but I will
say that it almost always pay to play it cool.
C/
t...@delphi.com
tens of millions of surplus males? Sounds like a recipe for foreign
adventurism: "if we take over this country, the women are yours."
One hell of an incentive for curing mega-cases of chronic blue balls.
DB
richar...@hotmail.com
MF <mfo...@bci.it> wrote:
... SNIP ....
> To be back at the point of your original message... Yes, it IS so hard.
> You don't need culture, intelligence, sweetness, or riches. You just
> need luck, big luck.
>
> I too think, like you said before, that most people keep a bad
> relationship, with someone they don't truly like, because of the fear of
> remaining alone. I have seen many friends in this condition, but divorce
> is the logical conclusion of most of these stories. I really know more
> divorced men (aged over 35) than married ones.
> Oh... that's enough sad considerations... let's go back to happyness.
> :)
Pshaw! If that is the case, then I think I will stick with my computer and
boardgames and forget all this dating business. Why go through all the
headaches? =)
richar...@hotmail.com
Courageous <jkra...@san.rr.com> wrote:
> You may or may not do this, but that's not the point. It's
> highly likely that your behavior towards women you are attracted
> to is subtley different than towards those you are not.
>
> I'm not saying you should change this at all, but I will
> say that it almost always pay to play it cool.
Or, possibly, I have equally lousy interpersonal skils with all women. It is
just that some women are more patient with me. It just happens the women who
are are women I am not attracted to physically.
- Richard
--
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <7gulic$1vl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> nutm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > > I don't think so. My wondering is why is it that I don't find women
> > > attractive I develop rapport with? I was wondering if there was something
> > > with me that makes a woman become physically unattractive to me if she is
> > > available and interested. It is almost like clockwork. Of course, the
> clock
> > > I am referring to here doesn't run that often.
> > >
> > > - Richard Hutnik
> >
> > What seems a sudden loss of physical attraction is actually a gradually
> > increasing dissatisfaction with the personality of the women.
>
> so it never decreased. It just seems like the only women I am able to
> not physically attracted to.
>
> - Richard Hutnik
Hmmmm......well I'd go back to my other post concentrating on #1, #2 and #4.
Intimacy requires knowing the basic feelings, ideas, principles, and
philosophies of the person.
But, remember it doesn't mean knowing the totality of the other person.
I think too you're lett your nervousness get in your way. The only way to
over come that is to start doing it, step by step. It will become easier as
you go. I also think you're concentrating too much on what you don't have,
rather than what you do and how to use it.
Philip Lamb
tell you a secret that few else will:
Going out with a woman is a net enery loss. I mean, I don't know what your
knowledge of thermodynamics is or anything, but basically, you're spending energy
when you go out with a woman, and you're likely to be spending energy until such
time as a woman needs you more than you need her. From what you say, you _act_ as
though you need a woman bad. Women sense that, and they milk it. What I am
saying, is that it is going to be hard work. It is going to make you tired. You
are going to have to give up some of the freedoms you enjoy, including (some of )
the do-anything go-anywhere bachelor freedoms. At the moment you probably have a
good job, lots of money etc., well you are going to have to be prepared to spend
some of it. This is the unwritten social law of dating, and until such time as
you become a little more expert, you are going to on the giving end of it.
There are so-called seduction programs which try to shortcut the rules, but they
require you to have a lying personality already, and they just bend you and teach
you how to lie to women too. So forget about them.
Let me tell you one more thing.. it is fun to learn how the dating game works;
eventually you start to meet powerful, sexy and funny women, and you enjoy their
company and they yours. Outwardly, you project SELF-CONFIDENCE, because you know
yourself and your strengths.
Phil.
richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I am a 31 single white male. etc.
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> In article <3732E6B3...@bci.it>,
> MF <mfo...@bci.it> wrote:
>
> ... SNIP ....
>
> > To be back at the point of your original message... Yes, it IS so hard.
> > You don't need culture, intelligence, sweetness, or riches. You just
> > need luck, big luck.
> >
> > I too think, like you said before, that most people keep a bad
> > relationship, with someone they don't truly like, because of the fear of
> > remaining alone. I have seen many friends in this condition, but divorce
> > is the logical conclusion of most of these stories. I really know more
> > divorced men (aged over 35) than married ones.
> > Oh... that's enough sad considerations... let's go back to happyness.
> > :)
>
> Pshaw! If that is the case, then I think I will stick with my computer and
> boardgames and forget all this dating business. Why go through all the
> headaches? =)
You don't live in the United States of Theftocracy.
Why do you think I only date foreign women???
Crash Street Kidd
"From suffering to suffering, he had gradually arrived at the conviction
that life is a war; and that in this war he was the conquered.
He had no other weapon than his hate."
- Victor Hugo, "Les Miserables"
Jason S.
>Why do you think I only date foreign women???
Why don't you paint a big target on your forehead, Aaron?
--
The GPL does not cost $50.
-- Bob Osborn in comp.os.os2.advocacy
Patrice
>>on my part, so it never decreased. It just seems like the only
>>women I am able to develop any rapport with, to at least the
>>friendship level, are women I am not physically attracted to.
Okay, I have to ask. Could someone explain this whole
fascination with "physical attraction" to me? I just don't get it.
I mean, if I develop a rapport with a man and he has a really
great personality and is smart, funny, interesting, etc.. I don't
care what he looks like! That seems like an extremely trivial
reason to eliminate someone from your "dating pool"
Most of the men I have dated did not catch my eye when I
first saw them. But, their personalities won me over and
made them extremely attractive. The 2 "traditionally gorgeous
on the outside" men I went on a date with had such horrible
personalities I found them rather ugly by the end of the first
date.
Maybe this is a man/woman thing (or maybe it is my blonde
hair <gr>) but I just don't get it. It seems that most men know
by just looking at a woman whether she is "marriage material"
or not. It seems that if a man doesn't get a hard on when a
woman walks in a room, that woman will not even get a chance
with him. Sorry, guys, but it just doesn't make any logical
sense to (most of) us women.
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> > > If your area doesn't have much swing, pick country.
> >
> > Ugh.....country??? Used to be good, until about 1975-80...
> > now, it's the redneck equivalent of rap...music for uncultured buffoons.
>
> I hate Country myself. Ptfuui! :)
>
> But seriously, it's the other big couples dance scene in my
> area. Biggest dance floors in the county (San Diego) are in
> Country Western bars. AFAIK.
Remember what your mom about "if everyone was jumping off a bridge"...
>
> I prefer to dance street swing to Swing, Rockabilly, Retro
> Rock, and the Blues myself.
>
> C/
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
Crash Street Kidd <CrashSt...@earthling.net> wrote:
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > Why do you think I only date foreign women???
> >
>
> that life is a war; and that in this war he was the conquered.
> He had no other weapon than his hate."
> - Victor Hugo, "Les Miserables"
What a cool quote, amazing in its relevancy.
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
Patrice <70003...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>
> Maybe this is a man/woman thing (or maybe it is my blonde
> hair <gr>) but I just don't get it. It seems that most men know
> by just looking at a woman whether she is "marriage material"
> or not. It seems that if a man doesn't get a hard on when a
> woman walks in a room, that woman will not even get a chance
> with him. Sorry, guys, but it just doesn't make any logical
> sense to (most of) us women.
What does blonde hair have to do with it?
It makes logical sense to me, face it men are very physical beings.
You either do it for them or you don't, it can't be faked.
That's what makes it all so interesting.
Each man's idea of attractiveness is as individual as they are.
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
ph...@rave.co.nz wrote:
> Okay, some other people have said some worthwhile stuff in this thread, but
I'll
> tell you a secret that few else will:
>
> Going out with a woman is a net enery loss. I mean, I don't know what your
> knowledge of thermodynamics is or anything, but basically, you're spending
energy
> when you go out with a woman, and you're likely to be spending energy until
such
> time as a woman needs you more than you need her. From what you say, you _act_
as
> though you need a woman bad. Women sense that, and they milk it.
Well, there is an interesting thought.
Expending too much energy, funny thing is if you enjoy yourself what the hell
would it matter?
richar...@hotmail.com
Patrice <70003...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
> fascination with "physical attraction" to me? I just don't get it.
> I mean, if I develop a rapport with a man and he has a really
> great personality and is smart, funny, interesting, etc.. I don't
> care what he looks like! That seems like an extremely trivial
> reason to eliminate someone from your "dating pool"
Ok, maybe this is just a guy thing. But, in order for me to be more than a
friend with a woman, I have to be sexually attracted to her. Part of sexual
attraction is that I am turned on by her physical appearance. This doesn't
mean that she has to be a "knock out" just that I sexually turned on by her.
As far as "eliminating" someone. Just because I am not physically attracted
to her, doesn't mean I can't be friends with her. I also account for how you
can grow attracted to someone physically, over time.
> Most of the men I have dated did not catch my eye when I
> first saw them. But, their personalities won me over and
> made them extremely attractive. The 2 "traditionally gorgeous
> on the outside" men I went on a date with had such horrible
> personalities I found them rather ugly by the end of the first
> date.
Myself, I am not seeking a "knockout". If she is, that is fine, but
secondary to me. However, the only thing I have to go on, if I know NOTHING
about someone, is my physical attraction to them.
> Maybe this is a man/woman thing (or maybe it is my blonde
> hair <gr>) but I just don't get it. It seems that most men know
> by just looking at a woman whether she is "marriage material"
> or not. It seems that if a man doesn't get a hard on when a
> woman walks in a room, that woman will not even get a chance
> with him. Sorry, guys, but it just doesn't make any logical
> sense to (most of) us women.
Again, not all men are just after looks. I know I am not. In my case, the
few women I do know, the physical attraction hasn't developed. This doesn't
mean that I won't want to be friends with them, spend time with them, or share
common interests, just that the romance angle won't develop.
Just my 2 cents....
- Richard Hutnik
Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
support and opponent finding for obscure/orphan games at:
http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/fortress/7537/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
richar...@hotmail.com
ph...@rave.co.nz wrote:
> Okay, some other people have said some worthwhile stuff in this thread, but
I'll
> tell you a secret that few else will:
>
> Going out with a woman is a net enery loss. I mean, I don't know what your
> knowledge of thermodynamics is or anything, but basically, you're spending
energy
> when you go out with a woman, and you're likely to be spending energy until
such
> time as a woman needs you more than you need her. From what you say, you
_act_ as
> saying, is that it is going to be hard work. It is going to make you tired.
You
> are going to have to give up some of the freedoms you enjoy, including (some
of )
> the do-anything go-anywhere bachelor freedoms. At the moment you probably
have a
> good job, lots of money etc., well you are going to have to be prepared to
spend
> some of it. This is the unwritten social law of dating, and until such time as
> you become a little more expert, you are going to on the giving end of it.
... SNIP ...
Ahh, that might explain it. I want the dating thing to be a nice little
add-on to my life, to get occational physical intimacy desires met on
occation (this is the main reason), and also find someone who I can share
some of my interests with (this is secondary, because I have people I can do
this with now, just not one single group of people). I am not looking to do
a major revision on my life just to fit female companionship into it. I
don't mind doing major revisions, for the sake of becoming a better person.
But, for the sake of getting the occational physical intimacy desire met, I
don't think the price is worth it.
I guess it is possible to be real good at the romance game, if you are willing
to sell your soul in the process. Myself, I am not.
richar...@hotmail.com
> Going out with a woman is a net enery loss. I mean, I don't know what your
> knowledge of thermodynamics is or anything, but basically, you're spending
energy
> when you go out with a woman, and you're likely to be spending energy until
such
> time as a woman needs you more than you need her.
Well, much of life is a net energy loss. Since it is, I figure I might as
well enjoy spending the energy. If spending the energy is in a form that
bores me, I am not interested in spending the energy that way.
>From what you say, you _act_ as
> though you need a woman bad. Women sense that, and they milk it. What I am
> saying, is that it is going to be hard work. It is going to make you tired.
Actually, I think the reverse is true. I think women sense that I really
don't need them (I do act cool and such, and laid back), and they don't sense
anything to milk. I would be used if they sense that I was feeling needy. In
my case, things don't develop for the most part. I would say I have only one
true woman friend locally, outside of the church I attend. There is another
woman local who is clingy and such, and I bailed her out of problems multiple
times, so I am like a support system for her. This second woman I really have
nothing in common with. So, when I tell her that everything in the
relationship is for her benefit, I really mean that, because I don't get
anything out of it except the knowledge that maybe I can of help to someone,
and that I can call her on occation.
>You
> are going to have to give up some of the freedoms you enjoy, including (some
of )
> the do-anything go-anywhere bachelor freedoms. At the moment you probably
have a
> good job, lots of money etc., well you are going to have to be prepared to
spend
> some of it.
Ahh, the dreaded committment word. I guess this is one of the benefits I
have now. I really do lead a kinda bland life, so I don't maximize the
freedom I have anyhow.
>This is the unwritten social law of dating, and until such time as
> you become a little more expert, you are going to on the giving end of it.
The annoying thing is, you are not sure which rulebook you are going to run
into when you meet a woman. The rules can vary a lot. If you throw in
dysfunctional expectations some women have (hey, men have these also, and I
could also plead guilty as being one of these men), it makes for a real
confusing time. I think I need to just work on getting my life and order, be
social and whatnot, and see who remains in my life in the long haul.
> There are so-called seduction programs which try to shortcut the rules, but
they
> require you to have a lying personality already, and they just bend you and
teach
> you how to lie to women too. So forget about them.
I think I am familar with some of them. In a nutshell, you sell your soul
in order to get someone in your life you desire. A lot of it involves molding
yourself around their identity. Yes, this is definitely flattering. But,
really, a person needs to ask themselves if it is worth it. Now, probably all
social interaction requires some of this molding. And probably everyone can
use some of this, because we need to develop and grow as people. However, I
think beyond this, a person really needs think twice about engaging in such
soul and body sculpting just to win the heart of someone.
> Let me tell you one more thing.. it is fun to learn how the dating game works;
> eventually you start to meet powerful, sexy and funny women, and you enjoy
their
> company and they yours. Outwardly, you project SELF-CONFIDENCE, because you
know
> yourself and your strengths.
And, the thing is that I read the books. And, I probably could benefit
from learning more on it.
- Richard
Crash Street Kidd
>
> In article <3733BB0A...@earthling.net>,
> Crash Street Kidd <CrashSt...@earthling.net> wrote:
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > >
> > > Why do you think I only date foreign women???
> > >
> >
> > "From suffering to suffering, he had gradually arrived at the conviction
> > that life is a war; and that in this war he was the conquered.
> > He had no other weapon than his hate."
> > - Victor Hugo, "Les Miserables"
>
> What a cool quote, amazing in its relevancy.
Thank you. When I read that I thought of Aaron. Everyone should read
that book and absorb its lessons, even Aaron.
Crash Street Kidd
ze...@my-dejanews.com
> Okay, I have to ask. Could someone explain this whole
> fascination with "physical attraction" to me? I just don't get it.
> I mean, if I develop a rapport with a man and he has a really
> great personality and is smart, funny, interesting, etc.. I don't
> care what he looks like! That seems like an extremely trivial
> reason to eliminate someone from your "dating pool"
>
> first saw them. But, their personalities won me over and
> made them extremely attractive.
SCENERIO:-
Party/club/dance.
There are couples dancing and guys and girls chatting in groups. A guy/girl
in a wheelchair chatting with a friend.
I would suggest the natural course is to cast an eye around the room room and,
whether it be consciously or subconsciously, take in the 'attractive ' people.
The guy notices the good looking girl and vica versa.
How do you determine a persons personality without approaching them?
Do you feel just as at ease approaching the 'looker' who is full of self
confidence as you do approaching the 'wheelie' who maybe feels self conscious
and
shy?
You can generally make an initial assessment of the personalities of a
'looker' or 'so so' physically attractive proposition by the advances made or
by the way they approach you and maybe get to dance with you.
Little do you know, the 'wheelie' or the geek it the big specs has the
greatest personality you could wish for. Why? - because there isn't that
initial physical attraction.
Am I right?
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
Funny you should mention it, I just bought the book at a used book sale at the
university and it's in my "to read" pile, which is growing so fast!
Aaron R. Kulkis
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis posted the following to alt.romance:
>
>
Ironically, the answer is the same for both:
I don't like being targeted for abuse.
That's why I date only foreign women and
That's why I DON'T paint a target on my forehead.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathalogical liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
matrix
<richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7h1jq7$ib7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <37339D32...@rave.co.nz>,
> Ahh, that might explain it. I want the dating thing to be a nice little
> add-on to my life, to get occational physical intimacy desires met on
> occation (this is the main reason),
Frankly, a prostitute can fill this role.
and also find someone who I can share
> some of my interests with (this is secondary, because I have people I can
do
> this with now, just not one single group of people). I am not looking to
do
> a major revision on my life just to fit female companionship into it. I
> don't mind doing major revisions, for the sake of becoming a better
person.
> But, for the sake of getting the occational physical intimacy desire met,
I
> don't think the price is worth it.
>
Ah...then you are just not ready to be in a SERIOUS relationship.
Serious relationships require a person to change, to make big compromises.
You, however, are not willing to do it.
> I guess it is possible to be real good at the romance game, if you are
willing
> to sell your soul in the process. Myself, I am not.
>
You're looking at it wrong OR, perhaps, looking for a reason to
stay single.
Again, it seems to me that you're really not ready for a relationship.
Philip
matrix
<richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7gujb7$v$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <7gud6q$9hs$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
[cut]
> I don't think so. My wondering is why is it that I don't find women
> attractive I develop rapport with? I was wondering if there was something
> with me that makes a woman become physically unattractive to me if she is
> available and interested.
As I said in another post, I think you're NOT ready for a relationship
and are coming up with all kinds of reasons to validate this.
See. I think that you've been single for so long that you've
become VERY used to it...it's the only thing you've known.
So when there is a real possibility of having a relationship,
you, instinctively, become afraid. Thus, you find reasons,
for remaining single.
It is almost like clockwork. Of course, the clock
> I am referring to here doesn't run that often.
>
Philip
Crash Street Kidd
>
> In article <373448E3...@earthling.net>,
> Crash Street Kidd <CrashSt...@earthling.net> wrote:
> > nutm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3733BB0A...@earthling.net>,
> > > Crash Street Kidd <CrashSt...@earthling.net> wrote:
> > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > that life is a war; and that in this war he was the conquered.
> > > > He had no other weapon than his hate."
> > > > - Victor Hugo, "Les Miserables"
> > >
> > > What a cool quote, amazing in its relevancy.
> >
> > Thank you. When I read that I thought of Aaron. Everyone should read
> > that book and absorb its lessons, even Aaron.
> >
> > Crash Street Kidd
>
> Funny you should mention it, I just bought the book at a used book sale at the
> university and it's in my "to read" pile, which is growing so fast!
You won't regret getting to it.
Crash Street Kidd
"It is nothing to die; it is dreadful not to live."
Mark Sobolewski
matrix wrote:
> <richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7h1jq7$ib7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <37339D32...@rave.co.nz>,
>
> > Ahh, that might explain it. I want the dating thing to be a nice little
> > add-on to my life, to get occational physical intimacy desires met on
> > occation (this is the main reason),
>
> Frankly, a prostitute can fill this role.
>
> and also find someone who I can share
> > some of my interests with (this is secondary, because I have people I can
> do
> > this with now, just not one single group of people). I am not looking to
> do
> > a major revision on my life just to fit female companionship into it. I
> > don't mind doing major revisions, for the sake of becoming a better
> person.
> > But, for the sake of getting the occational physical intimacy desire met,
> I
> > don't think the price is worth it.
> >
>
> Ah...then you are just not ready to be in a SERIOUS relationship.
> Serious relationships require a person to change, to make big compromises.
> You, however, are not willing to do it.
Paying a prostitute requires a person to "change" (Two fifties for a
hundred? :-)
Relationships where men buy women's company (either through free meals,
diamonds, or courtship rituals) are about as mindless and insincere
as paying for a hooker.
At least the hooker might truly love you. :-)
> > I guess it is possible to be real good at the romance game, if you are
> willing
> > to sell your soul in the process. Myself, I am not.
> >
>
> You're looking at it wrong OR, perhaps, looking for a reason to
> stay single.
>
> Again, it seems to me that you're really not ready for a relationship.
>
> Philip
Considering that 40% of children are born into single mom households
(and 2/3'd of new marriages end in divorce) he's not alone.
At least he's honest with himself.
--
"Men RAN things because they could..." -- Marg Petersen
(Mark A. Sobolewski <ma...@sobolewski.com>)
Crash Street Kidd
>
> Mark Sobolewski <mar...@home.com> wrote in article
> <3734C7AF...@home.com>...
> > > Ah...then you are just not ready to be in a SERIOUS relationship.
> > > Serious relationships require a person to change, to make big
> compromises.
> > > You, however, are not willing to do it.
> >
> > Paying a prostitute requires a person to "change" (Two fifties for a
> > hundred? :-)
>
> $100?
>
> > Considering that 40% of children are born into single mom households
> > (and 2/3'd of new marriages end in divorce) he's not alone.
>
> material! I want footnotes! I want appendixes!!!
They pull them out of their butt!!! You don't want to see those
appendixes. Very messy.
Crash Street Kidd
Outfoxing The Foxes
I am a 31 single white male. I have had bad luck when it has come to
dating.
I have be told numerous times that I am attractive. I am around 5'11"
medium build (weight down from 210 to around 180 now. I found a diet that
works). I also don't think I am too demanding (maybe I am). I have made
many efforts to change things. I attend singles' functions, read a ton of
books on the dating and relationships, attended lectures (wow, I am now
intellectually wise in the subject of dating, but not experientially),
engaged in self-improvement (weight loss and management, and reading and
practicing self-improvement stuff).
<---------You're on the right track. It takes a while to master your
moves. Your fundamentals are excellent. I particularly like the part
about you buying books on relationships. This is GOOD (okay, I'm a
publisher). Any plan is better than none. I wouldn't bother with the
singles functions, though.
There is a local dating service I tried where I got dates arranged over
the
years, but I haven't had much luck. A lot of the time, I wasn't
physically
attracted to the woman. The few times I was, nothing would develop. I
asked
the dating service about this, and they said "well, it's dating, what do
you
expect?" I even tried the approach of just trying to be a friend (if I
was
not attracted and see what develops. Well, this didn't go anywhere, as
any
form of any type of relationship developed.
<-------You need to learn seduction techniques. Also a bit more about
how women think.
Then, there is the use of personal ads in the paper. I got a few
responses
and responded a few times (and got response back), but nothing came about
it
also.
<-----Too clinical.
I had some success on the Net getting making contact with women, but most
of
the time, they are not local (tough to manage anything where the person
is
halfway across the USA from you, and you are merely friends now).
Actually,
the only women I know locally are via personal ads on the Net. And I
would
arguably say that it is only 2 women local I know via web ads, this
excluding
women I know through church or women as co-workers. Most other email
relationships die off for multiple reasons.
<-------Forced interaction is bad. Learn how to function on your own in
neutral environments. That way, if you mess up, she leaves.
I tried work, and got the cold shoulder pretty much. This is besides the
usual concerns of sexual harassment charges possibly being filed if you
ask
someone out on a date. You are forced to tread lightly. It is tough
trying
to ask someone and express your interest in them, when you risk facing a
lawsuit filed against you.
<---------How about employment discrimination? Say a male applicant is
turned down and it comes out in court you were asking the worker with
less skill hired for dates? Works both ways. Women at work HAVE to talk
to you; don't date one unless you are willing to quit over it, or if you
can do just as well away from work.
Well, it goes beyond this. Women I may seem to develop positive rapport
with
are usually involved with someone (aka married, engaged or seriously
seeing
them). Since I have no interest in being a sleeze, so that is a dead end.
<----Hardly. Just let the clock tick and they can break up. I've also
had success teaching women how to be more seductive to their lovers.
I can also add the age factor to this, where I was over 10 years younger
than
the women I had some rapport with, and it became obvious the age
difference
was a barrier based upon my speaking with them .
<-------Why would you want older women? Try 18-21....
When it came to trying social activities, my interests in strategy games
isn't
exactly a hotspot for meeting women.
<--------No it's not. Drop that for dance classes and learn
choreography. I can almost always spend an afternoon in a dance studio
with a hot young dancer if I want to.
As far as church goes, in the multiple churches I went to, you could
count
the number of single people on one hand. On the few times where a date
was
set up, NOTHING came about. With one woman, we just weren't compatible.
With the second, the woman moved out of the area, and nothing developed
there.
<---------Too clinical. Try choreography.
So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard. What am I doing
wrong,
or where may I be having a problem? Or, is it THIS hard, and that is why
people stay in bad relationships out of fear of having to go through all
this
again? Needless to say, due to my experiences, I have developed the
lifestyle
of a functioning single which consists of being able to adapt and do
things
alone. Perhaps this might have something to do with it.
<--------The time you spend researching and searching for a relationship
you should be spending developing a sexual skill. Even if you were on a
date you'd have problems if you don't know how to close the deal.
Thanks for any feedback you can provide...
- Richard Hutnik
<----Um, buy my book? Hehe
Outfoxing The Foxes: How To Seduce The Women Of Your Dreams
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html
________________________________________________________________
Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use
from Juno, the world's second largest online service.
Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.
matrix
Vanth <amusi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:01be98de$62b5dd00$d290...@dsfrank.bellsouth.net...
> nutm...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<7h1e2m$drq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > What does blonde hair have to do with it?
>
>
> > It makes logical sense to me, face it men are very physical beings.
> > You either do it for them or you don't, it can't be faked.
>
the
> doc does it for him. And guess it take out of the mix those men who have
> the "pump" for PE probs. ;)
>
> > That's what makes it all so interesting.
> > Each man's idea of attractiveness is as individual as they are.
>
> "attractive" woman. That's about like me saying I want an "attractive"
car.
> If you don't know what I want and find attractive in a car you might
think,
> like some yuppie lemming I want a Mazda Miata. (That car makes me GAG.
Yet,
> there are many who think it looks good. Give me that new Trans Am...me
> wants...me wants...yes me *could* get it, but practical me says no....were
> would I put the groceries or the suitcases..... :P )
>
> As with cars, there are all kinds of different things each individual
calls
> attractive. (And like cars, the models and "societal average" changes as
> well.....few want big fins on their cars these days, just like I'm sure
the
> "spoilers" are going to be the "big fins" of the future. ;)
>
> Vanth --
There is a baseline level of attractiveness that most men
will probably agree on. It's the details that separate one
man's preference from another.
In other words, if a man considers a woman great looking, another
man may consider her average looking. The point is that it's highly
unlikely(although possible, of course) that the second man will find
her to be below average looking.
But the one thing that you can bet on is that nearly all men will
agree on what is ugly.
Philip
Courageous
> you should be spending developing a sexual skill. Even if you were on a
> date you'd have problems if you don't know how to close the deal.
Very aptly put. Men who complain about dating are very often the
same men who, if they had a date, wouldn't be able to really close
the deal. Interestingly, if you are the kind of guy that can
close the deal, you very often have no problems dating.
I told a girl I am dating the other night that I had seduced her.
She told me "you must think very highly of yourself." I paused
for a moment and said. "Yes, I do." I then smiled and said "and
you like that, don't you?"
And she did.
C/
matrix
<richar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7h2t6j$hsm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
[cut]
> NO relationship should require a person to sell their soul and become
who
> they really aren't. A good relationship should enable a person to mature
as
> a person and change in a way that the person becomes a better person, not
> someone who is worse or inferior to who they were when they started. The
net
> effect, on a personal and collective issue between two people in a
> relationship, in both areas, should be positive. Just because people
settle
> on Mr./Ms. OK for now, who they can tolerate and are marginally attracted
to
> doesn't mean that I need to choose that or other people should either.
>
I agree.
I suppose I should have been clearer.
My point was that one can have a relationship that betters
both parties. BUT, there are some things you will have to
give up in order to gain other things...
That's what I meant by "compromising".
(note that in a good relationship, there is an overall net gain,
as you stated above)
The question is are you willing to make ANY compromises?
If not, I really don't see a serious relationship in your future...
At least(as other posters have stated) "NOT WITH
AMERICAN WOMEN!! .
I don't know about foreign women.
Anyway, looking at the subject title for this post, I see
that you are mainly interested in dating.
So, I apologize for my tangent posting.
> > > I guess it is possible to be real good at the romance game, if you are
> > willing
> > > to sell your soul in the process. Myself, I am not.
> > >
> > You're looking at it wrong OR, perhaps, looking for a reason to
> > stay single.
> >
> > Again, it seems to me that you're really not ready for a relationship.
>
> So, your belief is that you "sell your soul" in order to get someone?
I never said this. Hopefully I've made that clear, by now.
Philip
Vanth
Vanth
<#ne#1PRm#GA....@nih2naab.prod2.compuserve.com>...
>
> Maybe this is a man/woman thing (or maybe it is my blonde
> hair <gr>) but I just don't get it. It seems that most men know
oppps that's what I get for posting out of order, I guess you are going by
the old line that the blonde follicles extend into the brain, making the
logic harebrained.
But is it real? Curious how many blondes are real, and how many actually
say they are real and aren't.
Vanth --
Vanth
<3734C7AF...@home.com>...
> > Ah...then you are just not ready to be in a SERIOUS relationship.
> > Serious relationships require a person to change, to make big
compromises.
> > You, however, are not willing to do it.
>
> Paying a prostitute requires a person to "change" (Two fifties for a
> hundred? :-)
So is it a hooker when it's under $20, and a "call girl" when it's over
$100?
> Considering that 40% of children are born into single mom households
> (and 2/3'd of new marriages end in divorce) he's not alone.
Where does everyone get these statistics!!! I wanna see the source
material! I want footnotes! I want appendixes!!! Are they cutting out the
few, but probably "single mom's" due to tragic circumstances such as death?
(I've known a handful of widows!)
blah..
richar...@hotmail.com
"matrix" <a___m...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Ahh, that might explain it. I want the dating thing to be a nice little
> > add-on to my life, to get occational physical intimacy desires met on
> > occation (this is the main reason),
> Frankly, a prostitute can fill this role.
taste, it is really very shallow experiencewise, and there are health risks
there also I don't want to put my life under. In part, I found myself (on
occation) getting involved with such because dating went nowhere with me.
> Ah...then you are just not ready to be in a SERIOUS relationship.
> Serious relationships require a person to change, to make big compromises.
> You, however, are not willing to do it.
NO relationship should require a person to sell their soul and become who
they really aren't. A good relationship should enable a person to mature as
a person and change in a way that the person becomes a better person, not
someone who is worse or inferior to who they were when they started. The net
effect, on a personal and collective issue between two people in a
relationship, in both areas, should be positive. Just because people settle
on Mr./Ms. OK for now, who they can tolerate and are marginally attracted to
doesn't mean that I need to choose that or other people should either.
> > I guess it is possible to be real good at the romance game, if you are
> willing
> > to sell your soul in the process. Myself, I am not.
> >
> You're looking at it wrong OR, perhaps, looking for a reason to
> stay single.
>
> Again, it seems to me that you're really not ready for a relationship.
So, your belief is that you "sell your soul" in order to get someone? I
would NEVER ask anyone to do that for me, nor should they. Any involvement
with me should not be of this nature. If a person can't fully become who
they are meant to be, then I am the wrong person for them. Now, I am sure if
I were interested in starting a family and make that my life's goal, the
"selling the soul" approach would be fine. But now, at 31, I am fairly sure
doing such a thing is not something I want to do.
- Richard Hutnik
Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
support and opponent finding for obscure/orphan games at:
http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/fortress/7537/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Mark Sobolewski
Vanth wrote:
> Mark Sobolewski <mar...@home.com> wrote in article
> > Considering that 40% of children are born into single mom households
> > (and 2/3'd of new marriages end in divorce) he's not alone.
>
> Where does everyone get these statistics!!! I wanna see the source
> material! I want footnotes! I want appendixes!!! Are they cutting out the
> few, but probably "single mom's" due to tragic circumstances such as death?
> (I've known a handful of widows!)
>
> blah..
Then apparently there are a lot of men dying. :-)
Seriously, I got the 2/3's stat from a woman psych professor
who teaches in Diamond Bar. The 40% stat I read in Reason
magazine.
You are free to cite stats from other sources but I don't
think you'll find much difference.
Mark Sobolewski
> In article <7gt5jh$mkq$2...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> "Tom Wright" <tomw...@altavista.net> wrote:
> > It sounds to me as though you are simply TRYING TOO HARD! If you
> > deliberately TRY and get dates, then it simply won't work, and the few times
> > that you do succeed, chances are that you won't be compatible anyway. My
> > advice would be to simply 'get out more', not only for the sake of getting a
> > date, but also to further improve your own lifestyle.
>
> Try too hard? How about I am in a class work related, and once out of
> maybe 3 classes I see someone in the class I try to get to know. And that
> goes nowhere. I hardly every ask any women out. On the rare occation I try,
> it doesn't work. And, how will I know if I am compatible if I am not even
> able to get the date with the person? In non-work situations, the only thing
> "getting out more" results in for me, is bumping into women once and only
> once. This would be at a bookstore and whatnot. Not exactly the place to
> develop some rapport. I am also NOT a bar person.
It's contradictory, super unrealistic demands of men that result in
so many complaints from women:
On the one hand, men are expected to "not try too hard", "be honest",
not brag about their money and looks, and learn "no means no!"
At the same time, women traditionally want men to take the initiative,
test a man's perseverance by saying no repeatedly, earn a good income,
and say what she wants to hear (so much for honesty.)
When the men who meet these requirements turn out to be fakes and
liars they whine "boo hoo! Where's the nearest women's shelter/welfare
office/palimony attorney"
My ex (whose an attorney) stopped defending women in divorce cases
unless she was paid the money up front. Men paid their legal bills
without trouble but it was common for women to demand she collect
the money from the ex (who weren't exactly in a paying mood after
being fleeced by her in court.)
> > Also, I think your comments about sexual harassment and lawsuits were
> > shall we say some what exaggerated? I could be wrong, but perhaps it shows
> > a slightly 'off putting attitude towards women in general? Also, I really
> > don't think you have to worry about asking women at work out on dates, maybe
> > things are different here in the UK, but SEXUAL HARASSMENT...surly not.
> In the United States, it isn't, although maybe I am overly concerned.
> However, here, asking out a woman on a date, complimenting how she looks or
> relating to her in ANY way that may be construed as you being physically
> attracted to here, can be grounds for a sexual harassment suite. It is that
> annoying here. In order NOT to be considered engaging in sexual harassment,
> you need to treat the woman like a co-worker who doesn't have a gender.
If you aren't legally saavy, that's certainly true.
Fortunately, it's quite easy to filter out women who are golddiggers:
Be friendly and talkative and if a woman likes you, she'll help you
along. If she plays "hard to get", be prepared to be fleeced.
Maybe she will, maybe she won't but she certainly will put you
in a position where she can do so when she wants to. If someone
spends most of their time at your place searching for where you
hide things, would you trust them?
As a result, I do my best to FILTER OUT parasites: Make her pay her
way on a date. Don't wait for her to offer. Date women who take
a healthy initiative. Be honest with your own physical expectations
in women and what their expectations are with you. Many people
you may love (and vice versa) may turn out to be physical which
quickly wanes over time.
Let's be careful out there!
Mark Sobolewski
richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I am a 31 single white male. I have had bad luck when it has come to dating.
> I have be told numerous times that I am attractive. I am around 5'11"
> medium build (weight down from 210 to around 180 now. I found a diet that
> works). I also don't think I am too demanding (maybe I am). I have made
> many efforts to change things. I attend singles' functions, read a ton of
> books on the dating and relationships, attended lectures (wow, I am now
> intellectually wise in the subject of dating, but not experientially),
> engaged in self-improvement (weight loss and management, and reading and
> practicing self-improvement stuff).
>
> There is a local dating service I tried where I got dates arranged over the
> years, but I haven't had much luck. A lot of the time, I wasn't physically
> attracted to the woman. The few times I was, nothing would develop. I asked
> the dating service about this, and they said "well, it's dating, what do you
> expect?" I even tried the approach of just trying to be a friend (if I was
> not attracted and see what develops. Well, this didn't go anywhere, as any
> form of any type of relationship developed.
>
> Then, there is the use of personal ads in the paper. I got a few responses
> and responded a few times (and got response back), but nothing came about it
> also.
>
> I had some success on the Net getting making contact with women, but most of
> the time, they are not local (tough to manage anything where the person is
> halfway across the USA from you, and you are merely friends now). Actually,
> the only women I know locally are via personal ads on the Net. And I would
> arguably say that it is only 2 women local I know via web ads, this excluding
> women I know through church or women as co-workers. Most other email
> relationships die off for multiple reasons.
>
> I tried work, and got the cold shoulder pretty much. This is besides the
> usual concerns of sexual harassment charges possibly being filed if you ask
> someone out on a date. You are forced to tread lightly. It is tough trying
> to ask someone and express your interest in them, when you risk facing a
> lawsuit filed against you.
>
> Well, it goes beyond this. Women I may seem to develop positive rapport with
> are usually involved with someone (aka married, engaged or seriously seeing
> them). Since I have no interest in being a sleeze, so that is a dead end. I
> can also add the age factor to this, where I was over 10 years younger than
> the women I had some rapport with, and it became obvious the age difference
> was a barrier based upon my speaking with them .
>
> When it came to trying social activities, my interests in strategy games isn't
> exactly a hotspot for meeting women.
>
> As far as church goes, in the multiple churches I went to, you could count
> the number of single people on one hand. On the few times where a date was
> set up, NOTHING came about. With one woman, we just weren't compatible.
> With the second, the woman moved out of the area, and nothing developed
> there.
>
> So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard. What am I doing wrong,
> or where may I be having a problem? Or, is it THIS hard, and that is why
> people stay in bad relationships out of fear of having to go through all this
> again? Needless to say, due to my experiences, I have developed the lifestyle
> of a functioning single which consists of being able to adapt and do things
> alone. Perhaps this might have something to do with it.
>
> Thanks for any feedback you can provide...
> - Richard Hutnik
Richard, here's my opinion. Obviously, it's not applicable
to everyone and certainly not to most soc.singles readers:
I met a number of really neat women but they were usually over
40, divorced (kids grown), and just moving on with their life.
They were nice girls that had outgrown their husbands and
appreciated a fresh point of view (mine.)
I would still be dating them, but I'm willing to consider trying
to meet a breeder. Quite frankly, it's hard because most
"nice girls" you might want to meet probably are already hooked up.
Put yourself in their place: All they had to do to meet a man
was go out, express some interest, and they were hooked up!
If you had the choices of an attractive young woman you would
be hooked up earlier too. You simply couldn't avoid it.
Most women (not all, I hope) in their early to late 30's are
"clock tickers" who either brush off men, play games, are
extremely physically unattractive, etc. If they DIDN'T have
those problems, they would be hooked up by now.
Do you really want to marry _them_?
Alternatively, there are some women who were just busy with
their careers (like many men) or things didn't work out.
That's the kind of gal I hope to meet.
Unfortunately, society doesn't exactly encourage women
to treat men decently. Turn on any TV and you'll see diamond
ads, women slapping around men who say anything that offends
them, and a culture that encourages women to think of themselves
as victims and men as disposable wallets.
In conclusion: There are a number of economic, statistical,
cultural, and perhaps even genetic factors at work that
make women act like retarded children.
So you basically have a choice: Stick it out and try to find
a breeder (what I'm doing right now), go for an older gal
(very doable since they are sick of the screwed up guys
in their own generation), or settle:
You're reasonably good looking and have money. If you choose,
you can pick up a gal in under a few minutes if you talk
about movies and "weather" type subjects and flash some
money around (without being obvious.) Treat them like a cat
(no insult to cats) and you can pick up plenty of
helpless victorian breeders.
Just be warned that the moment you displease them you are
THROUGH buster!
Good luck, to all of us.
KD
Mark Sobolewski wrote in message <37352264...@home.com>...
>
>
>richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard. What am I doing
wrong,
>> or where may I be having a problem? Or, is it THIS hard, and that is why
>> people stay in bad relationships out of fear of having to go through all
this
>> again? Needless to say, due to my experiences, I have developed the
lifestyle
>> of a functioning single which consists of being able to adapt and do
things
>> alone. Perhaps this might have something to do with it.
>>
>> Thanks for any feedback you can provide...
>> - Richard Hutnik
Read on.
>In conclusion: There are a number of economic, statistical,
>cultural, and perhaps even genetic factors at work that
>make women act like retarded children.
Hahaha, thought this was a funny paragraph, had to include it. I don't
agree with much of what Mark said but he does have style.
Now for my advice to Mr.Hutnik:
It is very difficult to find someone if you just let things happen and don't
take control of the situation. Here's some advice I got last year which has
helped me a lot.
1) Take out a piece of paper and write down what you're looking for in a
partner, be as specific as you can,what she looks like, level of education,
age, job, personality, don't hold back, this is your wish list.
2) Whenever you meet a woman who comes close to this ask her out, doesn't
matter if you know her all that well, if you don't know if she's boyfriended
or married, if you've never met, none of this matters. You're a man on a
mission.
3) Don't date women who don't match your list to some extent, you'll just be
wasting time, they might be great women but they're not what you're looking
for.
4) The first payoff of doing it this way, you'll bring enthusiasm to the job
of meeting women and dating them, you're not treading water anymore, you're
looking for a particular kind of fish.
5) Second payoff, you're in a better place to offer what most women
genuinely want, affection, companionship, and respect, she's someone you've
chosen, you haven't just bumbled into each other.
As for why you haven't gotten into relationships up until now a lot of that
might just be that you haven't put yourself out there. Most women don't go
searching for relationships they wait for men to come to them. You don't
sound like you belong to the A list but you do sound like a solid B or B+.
There is no reason why you can't find someone who would love to be with you
but you have to go fishing, you can't expect the fish to crawl up on the
beach and search for you (don't ask me why it's this way it just is).
And while you're at it you might draw up two more lists. First, what do you
want from a relationship? Think that through, what do you expect to get
from dating? Be as honest with yourself as possible, do you want to share
weekends with someone or have a more permanent companion, do you want to
stay single or do you wnat to do the white picket fence thing? Be clear
about this in your own mind, not waht you think you should want but what you
want, it's another way to get focused.
And finally, draw up a list of things you can give to someone else.
Relationships are about give and take, that means you have to give some
things, if you look at this only as taking you might come off as cold, but
if you focus on giving you could become popular very quickly. If you have
no clue of what women want from relationhips a simple remedy is just to look
around and ask women you know, single and married, women love to talk about
this sort of thing, and since these aren't women you want to date they'll
give frank answers and to some extent even become invested in your success.
One more thing. Don't ignore the "rituals" of dating, by which I mean the
theater of taking a woman out, showing her a good time, courting her, these
work to your advantage. If you don't have clothes just for dating, for
instance (something stylish you can wear in the evening just for this) get
some, it's the easiest way to signal seriousness and availability. Don't
negect things such as sending flowers, giving gifts, picking up the tab,
anything which shows your enjoyment in moving things along. Most men don't
do this, that gives you a huge advantage if you do, it's really quite
amazing, I wish I'd figured this out years ago.
Finally, the whole point of dating is not to come off as something you're
not or to change yourself into someone else (that's impossible) but to get
past the point where two people are strangers so you can find out what she's
about and she can do the same. If your friends think that you're a decent
guy you should have no problem connecting with someone, you're problem, I'm
guessing, is mostly in the beginning, you're not initiating and so notihng
ever happens. It could be much worse, you could be a jerk.
So my advice, figure out what you want and surrender to the theater of
dating. I think Mark Twain said that most people get what they settle for
(could have been someone else), that's definately true of dating and
romance.
Mark Sobolewski
KD wrote:
> Mark Sobolewski wrote in message <37352264...@home.com>...
> >
> >
> >richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >> So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard. What am I doing
> wrong,
> >> or where may I be having a problem? Or, is it THIS hard, and that is why
> >> people stay in bad relationships out of fear of having to go through all
> this
> >> again? Needless to say, due to my experiences, I have developed the
> lifestyle
> >> of a functioning single which consists of being able to adapt and do
> things
> >> alone. Perhaps this might have something to do with it.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any feedback you can provide...
> >> - Richard Hutnik
>
> Read on.
>
> >In conclusion: There are a number of economic, statistical,
> >cultural, and perhaps even genetic factors at work that
> >make women act like retarded children.
>
> Hahaha, thought this was a funny paragraph, had to include it. I don't
> agree with much of what Mark said but he does have style.
I disagree. While you said it a different way, that's more or less what
you said below:
> As for why you haven't gotten into relationships up until now a lot of that
> might just be that you haven't put yourself out there. Most women don't go
> searching for relationships they wait for men to come to them.
[clip]
>You don't
> sound like you belong to the A list but you do sound like a solid B or B+.
> There is no reason why you can't find someone who would love to be with you
> but you have to go fishing, you can't expect the fish to crawl up on the
> beach and search for you (don't ask me why it's this way it just is).
Once again, you are agreeing with the point I made above.
[clip]
> One more thing. Don't ignore the "rituals" of dating, by which I mean the
> theater of taking a woman out, showing her a good time, courting her, these
> work to your advantage.
So does offering $500 to women hanging outside the Stratosphere in Vegas.
> If you don't have clothes just for dating, for
> instance (something stylish you can wear in the evening just for this) get
> some, it's the easiest way to signal seriousness and availability. Don't
> negect things such as sending flowers, giving gifts, picking up the tab,
> anything which shows your enjoyment in moving things along.
Whether he "enjoys" it or not is immaterial. He's paying for these
women's company...
> Most men don't
> do this, that gives you a huge advantage if you do, it's really quite
> amazing, I wish I'd figured this out years ago.
Wow! You mean buying women's companionship results in getting laid!
Wow! Nobody ever could figure that out! :-)
> Finally, the whole point of dating is not to come off as something you're
> not or to change yourself into someone else (that's impossible) but to get
> past the point where two people are strangers so you can find out what she's
> about and she can do the same.
Incorrect.
It sounds to me as if you think he should buy women's affections and say
and appear what they want him to be (and provide) for them.
There is NO sincerely whatsoever in your advice. He might as well
buy a hooker.
>If your friends think that you're a decent
> guy you should have no problem connecting with someone, you're problem, I'm
> guessing, is mostly in the beginning, you're not initiating and so notihng
> ever happens. It could be much worse, you could be a jerk.
He is free to follow your advice. My only additional observation is
that a woman who sits around waiting for men to pay for them
are going to betray him sooner or later. He's free to take that
risk if he likes.
> So my advice, figure out what you want and surrender to the theater of
> dating. I think Mark Twain said that most people get what they settle for
> (could have been someone else), that's definately true of dating and
> romance.
Perhaps. We all "settle" but that depends upon what we settle upon.
I really like ice cream but I can live without it. I will "settle"
for vanilla or chocolate but I won't "settle" for something
that costs more than it's worth to me.
But that's everyone's personal decision and I respect it.
paul woods
@ www.dating-women.co.uk
We have gone into the fundamentals and the basic steps which has been shot
as a dramatised part of the video and we interviewd lots of people in
different places in order to get real life opinions on chat up lines,
clothes, dress sense, and everything else one may need to enter into the
dating game !!! Have fun and buy this video. It`s only £14.95 inc postage
and packaging. We worked hard on it and it came out OK. If you do buy it,
watch it right up until the end and after the end credits where we inserted
one last sequence !
Regards
Paul Woods
Producer.
My next project is an aviation video.
Philip Lamb wrote in message <37339D32...@rave.co.nz>...
>Okay, some other people have said some worthwhile stuff in this thread, but
I'll
>tell you a secret that few else will:
>
>Going out with a woman is a net enery loss. I mean, I don't know what your
>knowledge of thermodynamics is or anything, but basically, you're spending
energy
>when you go out with a woman, and you're likely to be spending energy until
such
>time as a woman needs you more than you need her. From what you say, you
_act_ as
>though you need a woman bad. Women sense that, and they milk it. What I am
>saying, is that it is going to be hard work. It is going to make you tired.
You
>are going to have to give up some of the freedoms you enjoy, including
(some of )
>the do-anything go-anywhere bachelor freedoms. At the moment you probably
have a
>good job, lots of money etc., well you are going to have to be prepared to
spend
>some of it. This is the unwritten social law of dating, and until such time
as
>you become a little more expert, you are going to on the giving end of it.
>
>There are so-called seduction programs which try to shortcut the rules, but
they
>require you to have a lying personality already, and they just bend you and
teach
>you how to lie to women too. So forget about them.
>
>Let me tell you one more thing.. it is fun to learn how the dating game
works;
>eventually you start to meet powerful, sexy and funny women, and you enjoy
their
>company and they yours. Outwardly, you project SELF-CONFIDENCE, because you
know
>yourself and your strengths.
>
>Phil.
>
>richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am a 31 single white male. etc.
>
anon...@nowhere.com
Sif
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"There are bigger universal fish to fry than
meeting the deceptively low standards
that logic puts forth."
-- anonymous buddhist
Mark Sobolewski <mar...@home.com> wrote in article
<37351F2A...@home.com>...
Mark Sobolewski
anon...@nowhere.com wrote:
>
> Oh shut up you blithering idiot.
Better an idiot than a fascist. We have free speech in this
country whether you like it or not!
Online Tim
On Thu, May 6, 1999 10:01 AM wrote:
> I am a 31 single white male. I have had bad luck when it
> has come to dating.
> I have be told numerous times that I am attractive. I am
> around 5'11" medium build (weight down from 210 to around
> 180 now. I found a diet that works). I also don't think I
> am too demanding (maybe I am). I have made many efforts to
> change things. I attend singles' functions, read a ton of
> books on the dating and relationships, attended lectures
> (wow, I am now intellectually wise in the subject of dating,
> but not experientially), engaged in self-improvement (weight
> loss and management, and reading and practicing
> self-improvement stuff).
All that you’ve written is describing your problem but not really giving any
explanations for it. Are you shy? Do you have problems approaching women? Do
you feel nervous when around women? All this could explain your problem, but
nothing you write would indicate this. From what you say, it simply sounds like
you aren’t being persistent enough.
> There is a local dating service I tried where I got dates
> arranged over the years, but I haven't had much luck. A lot
> of the time, I wasn't physically attracted to the woman. The
> few times I was, nothing would develop. I asked the dating
> service about this, and they said "well, it's dating, what
> do you expect?" I even tried the approach of just trying to
> be a friend (if I was not attracted and see what develops.
> Well, this didn't go anywhere, as any form of any type of
> relationship developed.
Ok, you need to ask yourself what exactly you want from a relationship. Is
dating for you a prelude to marriage? If so, what is the age at which you would
wish to be wed? Is it somewhere far off in the future? Or maybe you view dating
as simply an enjoyable way to spend an evening. You might even wish to remain
single—at least for the foreseeable future. In any case, you need to be clear
on thes questions before you can make an intelligent decision.
> Then, there is the use of personal ads in the paper. I got
> a few responses and responded a few times (and got response
> back), but nothing came about it also.
When you say “nothing came about it” what do you mean? No one responded? No one
agreed to a meeting? No real relationships developed? Did you try long enough?
Why do you think it didn’t work? Also, some personal services on the Web will
email you when a compatible person in your area signs up.
> So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard. What
> am I doing wrong, or where may I be having a problem? Or,
> is it THIS hard, and that is why people stay in bad
> relationships out of fear of having to go through all this
> again? Needless to say, due to my experiences, I have
> developed the lifestyle of a functioning single which
> consists of being able to adapt and do things alone. Perhaps
> this might have something to do with it.
It IS hard to meet compatible persons of the opposite sex. And you're right,
people DO tend to stay in bad relationships for this reason. That’s why
persistence is so important.
Romance for Real People
Your complete online guide to dating success. All the secrets of attracting the
opposite sex revealed.
Courageous
>
> IMO, most so-called love _is_ lust.
This may be your opinion, but it isn't true. The real truth
is, you simply can be overwhelmed by the emotion of love
to someone you don't even know that well. Silly thing,
but that's the way it works.
I've certainly fallen in love with women that I didn't know
that well and didn't even have that strong of a sexual
chemistry. This would discount your "love is lust" hypothesis,
which is very weak indeed.
What, are you accusing all men who say they are in love of
walking around with constant raging hardons for the object
of their intentions?
Ridiculous.
C/
richar...@hotmail.com
onli...@aol.com (Online Tim) wrote:
> All that you’ve written is describing your problem but not really
giving any
> explanations for it.
I wish I fully had one.
>Are you shy?
Maybe a wee bit "unmotivated". If I were a skirt chaser with one
thing on my mind, perhaps I would be more motivated. My think is that
I am a skirt chaser with multiple things on my mind. It is just what I
seek I can't tell from mere appearance, so... I don't know.
>Do you have problems approaching women?
No, I have problems with the landing. It seems that the runway
moves on me too many times, and makes landings happen that often.
>Do
> you feel nervous when around women?
Not sure.
>All this could explain your problem, but
> nothing you write would indicate this. From what you say, it simply
sounds like
> you aren’t being persistent enough.
And this comment is the opposite of what others tell me, that try to
hard. Can you tell me the difference between trying to hard and not
being persistent enough? Maybe I am both at the same time, and don't
know it.
> Ok, you need to ask yourself what exactly you want from a
relationship.
Ahh... this would be a good thing to do. Facing rejection a lot of
times, and being in a situation where life dictates I manage things
alone, puts me in a position where I get confused as to
>Is
> dating for you a prelude to marriage? If so, what is the age at which
you would
> wish to be wed?
I am now 31. If I wanted to get married, wouldn't "tomorrow" be a
good date? The problem I find when setting a date is that the end
result is excess pressure occurs when the date approaches.
>Is it somewhere far off in the future?
Well, I think far off (5 years at least) will kind of put a krimp on
having kids, unless I am interesting seeing them graduate college when
I am about to retire from college.
>Or maybe you view dating
> as simply an enjoyable way to spend an evening.
Actually, I view it more as a visit to the dentist. I am usually
forced to sit in a waiting room listening to dull musak. Then the
person I am there to see shows up and we spend some time together, this
is unless they cancelled. A denist will usually ask to have the
appointment rescheduled, unlike a date. Usually the experience will be
on par of looking at white wall paper. In both cases, I end up
spending money. In really bad cases in both, a future appointment will
result in pain. At least in the case of the dentist, I get a second
appointment. And, typically, I have more done with my mouth on the
first appointment with the dentist then on a date.
Oh sorry, I was starting to work on a comedy routine involving
dating now.
But, typically, dating hasn't really ever been an enjoyable
experience for me.
>You might even wish to remain
> single—at least for the foreseeable future. In any case, you need to
be clear
> on thes questions before you can make an intelligent decision.
I think I do need to sort through issues.
> When you say “nothing came about it” what do you mean? No one
responded? No one
> agreed to a meeting?
No one? I couldn't get a date set up.
>No real relationships developed? Did you try long enough?
Well, usually it is work related. I feel if I try any longer, it
would consist of sexually harrassment.
> Why do you think it didn’t work? Also, some personal services on the
Web will
> email you when a compatible person in your area signs up.
The only place I have had luck is using the Web classifieds.
Through the supposed "regular" methods, I haven't had much luck.
> It IS hard to meet compatible persons of the opposite sex. And you're
right,
> people DO tend to stay in bad relationships for this reason. That’s
why
> persistence is so important.
But if I am persistent, aren't I trying too hard? I hear people
tell me to let it just happen. I haven't seen it occur in my case.
> Romance for Real People
> Your complete online guide to dating success. All the secrets of
attracting the
> opposite sex revealed.
>
> http://www.life-n-leisure.com/romance.html
I checked it out. It looks good.
- Richard
Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
support and opponent finding for obscure/orphan games at:
http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/fortress/7537/
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
fk...@my-dejanews.com
Mark Sobolewski <mar...@home.com> wrote:
>
> It's contradictory, super unrealistic demands of men that result in
> so many complaints from women:
>
> On the one hand, men are expected to "not try too hard", "be honest",
> not brag about their money and looks, and learn "no means no!"
>
> At the same time, women traditionally want men to take the initiative,
> test a man's perseverance by saying no repeatedly, earn a good income,
> and say what she wants to hear (so much for honesty.)
>
Women have been sold a rotten bill of goods by feminists, who define
men as tyrant-fathers yet demand that men be nurturant mother-like
figures. Women take this contradictory thinking with them into
relationships, which inevitably results in dissatisfaction. Women who
coerce sensitivity from their men find that there is no masculinity in
their partner when they need or expect it.
> Fortunately, it's quite easy to filter out women who are golddiggers:
> Be friendly and talkative and if a woman likes you, she'll help you
> along. If she plays "hard to get", be prepared to be fleeced.
> Maybe she will, maybe she won't but she certainly will put you
> in a position where she can do so when she wants to. If someone
> spends most of their time at your place searching for where you
> hide things, would you trust them?
Women who are extroverted, neurotic, tend to always blame others for
their problems, have trouble maintaining friendships and other personal
relationships, whose lives and whose family's lives seem always to be
filled with drama, etc., are other examples of whom to avoid.
> As a result, I do my best to FILTER OUT parasites: Make her pay her
> way on a date. Don't wait for her to offer.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the man paying for dinner.
Where I would draw the line is if a girlfriend asks for a "loan" of
$1000. (And this sort of thing happens fairly often, actually.)
> Date women who take
> a healthy initiative.
On the other hand, don't be bowled over by a borderline, hysteric, or
sociopathic woman, who will come across as being very charming,
aggressive and outgoing, at least at first.
> Be honest with your own physical expectations
> in women and what their expectations are with you. Many people
> you may love (and vice versa) may turn out to be physical which
> quickly wanes over time.
>
> Let's be careful out there!
Hear hear!
=Fred
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
> > > > Ah...then you are just not ready to be in a SERIOUS
relationship.
> > > > Serious relationships require a person to change, to make big
> > compromises.
> > > > You, however, are not willing to do it.
> > >
a
> > > hundred? :-)
> >
> > So is it a hooker when it's under $20, and a "call girl" when it's
over
> > $100?
> >
households
> > > (and 2/3'd of new marriages end in divorce) he's not alone.
> >
> > Where does everyone get these statistics!!! I wanna see the source
> > material! I want footnotes! I want appendixes!!!
>
> appendixes. Very messy.
Ha, ha!! That was very funny!
>
> Crash Street Kidd
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
"Vanth" <amusi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> nutm...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<7h1e2m$drq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > What does blonde hair have to do with it?
>
> The theory that all men want blondes. Mainly spoken by most blondes.
;)
That wasn't what I was thinking.
>
> > It makes logical sense to me, face it men are very physical beings.
> > You either do it for them or you don't, it can't be faked.
>
> Oh really? I've heard that prostate exam can be very exciting. ;)
Guess the
> doc does it for him. And guess it take out of the mix those men who
have
> the "pump" for PE probs. ;)
I'm talking about sexual attraction.
Not erections which can happen out of nervousness also.
I think you know what I meant Vanth.
>
> > That's what makes it all so interesting.
> > Each man's idea of attractiveness is as individual as they are.
>
> No kidding. Which is why I love hearing a guy state he wants an
> "attractive" woman. That's about like me saying I want an "attractive"
car.
They just want eye candy.
> If you don't know what I want and find attractive in a car you might
think,
> like some yuppie lemming I want a Mazda Miata. (That car makes me GAG.
I don't care for them either. Every guy around here who owns one is
over sixty, acting like he's 25.
Yet,
> there are many who think it looks good. Give me that new Trans Am...me
> wants...me wants...yes me *could* get it, but practical me says
no....were
> would I put the groceries or the suitcases..... :P )
Since we're talking cars....
I'll take an S80
>
> As with cars, there are all kinds of different things each individual
calls
> attractive. (And like cars, the models and "societal average" changes
as
> well.....few want big fins on their cars these days, just like I'm
sure the
> "spoilers" are going to be the "big fins" of the future. ;)
I'm not counting on it. Rather I'd like to think some men mature and
realize other things are just as important.
>
> Vanth --
Vanth
<3734E797...@earthling.net>...
> > > Considering that 40% of children are born into single mom households
> > > (and 2/3'd of new marriages end in divorce) he's not alone.
> >
> > Where does everyone get these statistics!!! I wanna see the source
> > material! I want footnotes! I want appendixes!!!
>
> They pull them out of their butt!!! You don't want to see those
> appendixes. Very messy.
I'm beginning to think they are. I mean, hell in this day, if you hear a
statistic it's gotta be real. No asking on how the sampling was taken, what
questions were asked. (Especially "leading" questions with "weasel words",
or "vague" ones that have to be answered in the way the person wants to pad
the findings.)
I'm curious how they get them, and also curious if they took into account
some interesting factors that could account for some skewing of the
numbers. i.e. civil or religious marriages, age disparity between the
couple, length of courtship....(i.e. should we include the type of
marriages like Dennis Rodman had recently?)
But no, let's just pull out any statistic that sounds good and supports our
beliefs....blah....
Vanth --
Vanth
<7h310c$2vg$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> > As with cars, there are all kinds of different things each individual
> calls
> > attractive. (And like cars, the models and "societal average" changes
as
> > well.....few want big fins on their cars these days, just like I'm sure
> the
> > "spoilers" are going to be the "big fins" of the future. ;)
> >
> will probably agree on. It's the details that separate one
> man's preference from another.
You mean that she not have three eyes, ten legs and antenna? And oh yeah,
not be hiding male anatomy under her dress? ;)
> In other words, if a man considers a woman great looking, another
> man may consider her average looking. The point is that it's highly
> unlikely(although possible, of course) that the second man will find
> her to be below average looking.
>
> But the one thing that you can bet on is that nearly all men will
> agree on what is ugly.
I doubt that. I've been called "ugly" by some men, called "damn cute" by
others. So if what you are saying is true, I never should have had anyone
call me cute, or were the "ugly" men just being "ugly" because they are
"ugly"?
Vanth --
Mark Sobolewski
> In article <37351F2A...@home.com>, Mark Sobolewski <mar...@home.com> wrote:
> > so many complaints from women:
> >
> > On the one hand, men are expected to "not try too hard", "be honest",
> > not brag about their money and looks, and learn "no means no!"
> >
> > At the same time, women traditionally want men to take the initiative,
> > test a man's perseverance by saying no repeatedly, earn a good income,
> > and say what she wants to hear (so much for honesty.)
> >
>
> Women have been sold a rotten bill of goods by feminists, who define
> men as tyrant-fathers yet demand that men be nurturant mother-like
> figures. Women take this contradictory thinking with them into
> relationships, which inevitably results in dissatisfaction. Women who
> coerce sensitivity from their men find that there is no masculinity in
> their partner when they need or expect it.
Hold on a minute here.
I'm not big fan of feminism, but these problems have long existed
between men and women in ALL cultures. Feminists are just
very hypocritical about it.
> > Fortunately, it's quite easy to filter out women who are golddiggers:
> > Be friendly and talkative and if a woman likes you, she'll help you
> > along. If she plays "hard to get", be prepared to be fleeced.
> > Maybe she will, maybe she won't but she certainly will put you
> > in a position where she can do so when she wants to. If someone
> > spends most of their time at your place searching for where you
> > hide things, would you trust them?
>
> Women who are extroverted, neurotic, tend to always blame others for
> their problems, have trouble maintaining friendships and other personal
> relationships, whose lives and whose family's lives seem always to be
> filled with drama, etc., are other examples of whom to avoid.
Ha! I learned that firsthand! :-)
But that can be said of anyone. It's just not socially
tolerated in men. Men who beat and neglect their children
get 5 to 10, women get a huge welfare and child-support
check and counseling. :-)
> > As a result, I do my best to FILTER OUT parasites: Make her pay her
> > way on a date. Don't wait for her to offer.
>
> I don't think there is anything wrong with the man paying for dinner.
> Where I would draw the line is if a girlfriend asks for a "loan" of
> $1000. (And this sort of thing happens fairly often, actually.)
You can draw the line whereever you like. Quite frankly, if I was
going to accept women the way most of them are I wouldn't
go for traditional dating. I would do it like my casanova cousin
who seduces extremely attractive, wealthy women by saying what
they want to hear. He isn't friends with many women though.
There's nothing "wrong" with paying for a woman's company.
I just consider it rather humiliating myself. Why not just
get a prostitute and be done with it? You get a better
value for your dollar...
> > Date women who take
> > a healthy initiative.
>
> On the other hand, don't be bowled over by a borderline, hysteric, or
> sociopathic woman, who will come across as being very charming,
> aggressive and outgoing, at least at first.
The same can be said of men!
The men who play the contradictory "game" the best also generally
turn out to be the psychos that send so many of them to the welfare
and domestic violence crisis centers. :-)
Life, for the most part, is truly fair is it not?
> > Be honest with your own physical expectations
> > in women and what their expectations are with you. Many people
> > you may love (and vice versa) may turn out to be physical which
> > quickly wanes over time.
> >
> > Let's be careful out there!
>
> Hear hear!
>
> =Fred
>
> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
> ---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
--
Vanth
> > > Considering that 40% of children are born into single mom households
> > > (and 2/3'd of new marriages end in divorce) he's not alone.
> >
> > Where does everyone get these statistics!!! I wanna see the source
the
> > few, but probably "single mom's" due to tragic circumstances such as
death?
> > (I've known a handful of widows!)
> >
> > blah..
>
> Then apparently there are a lot of men dying. :-)
Well think about what you said, 2/3's of new marriages END in divorce. If
you are just checking the statistics of how marriages "end" then you could
come up with a lot of dead men. (i.e. do you see how not know exactly what
the statistics were actually checking for can make a difference by that
statement?)
> Seriously, I got the 2/3's stat from a woman psych professor
> who teaches in Diamond Bar. The 40% stat I read in Reason
> magazine.
And she got her statistics from? Just because someone has a Ph.D doesn't
mean they always know what they are talking about. (Yeah, flame me!)
Especially in the "soft sciences" if you don't give the prof what they want
to hear you can kiss your Ph.D goodbye. (How many actually attack what
their "advisor" preaches?)
And Reason magazine is? Is it a "journal" or is it a magazine with an
"agenda"? How about me read off some junk stats from Cosmo, which also has
an "agenda"?
> You are free to cite stats from other sources but I don't
> think you'll find much difference.
Will work on it. I've got some leads....been reading a really cool book
which challenges leading "statistics", but unlike you, and a whole bunch of
statistic quoters, I learned in college to never quote "secondary sources"
as they are like "rumors" and can be changed in the telling.
Vanth --
Mark Sobolewski
> I wouldn't call that love, but lust.
IMO, most so-called love _is_ lust.
People who follow a traditional courtship ritual probably don't
know ANYTHING about the other person, really, until 2 or 3 years
after they marry and they discover "he/she isn't the person I married."
Someone who says/does something to get sex/social-status/wealth/fantasy
fulfillment isn't in love, but lust. You can get more satisfaction, long
term, from pornography.
BTW, If anyone sees Susie Booby perform, tell her that my brother
had a good time during his bachelor party even if he was passed out. :-)
Mark Sobolewski
Courageous wrote:
>
> > > I wouldn't call that love, but lust.
> >
> > IMO, most so-called love _is_ lust.
>
> This may be your opinion, but it isn't true. The real truth
> is, you simply can be overwhelmed by the emotion of love
> to someone you don't even know that well. Silly thing,
> but that's the way it works.
>
> I've certainly fallen in love with women that I didn't know
> that well and didn't even have that strong of a sexual
> chemistry. This would discount your "love is lust" hypothesis,
> which is very weak indeed.
>
> What, are you accusing all men who say they are in love of
> walking around with constant raging hardons for the object
> of their intentions?
>
> Ridiculous.
Of course it's rediculous.
I didn't say it.
I never, repeat, NEVER said "all men who say they are...",
I said _most_ quite clearly. Most is not all.
Look up the two words in the dictionary. They
are quite different!
Richard Evans
> richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > I am a 31 single white male. I have had bad luck when
> it has come to dating.
> > I have be told numerous times that I am attractive.
Well most women find physical attractiveness of only
secondary improtance. What counts most is personality. You
will probably come accross women who are attratcted to your
particular personality, but you need to find a way to
present the good parts of your personality, in ways that
they will notice.
> I attend singles' functions, read a ton of
> > books on the dating and relationships, attended lectures
You can lear a cirtain amout from books, if you read the
rite ones.
> (wow, I am now
> > intellectually wise in the subject of dating, but not
> experientially),
> > engaged in self-improvement (weight loss and management,
> and reading and
> > practicing self-improvement stuff).
Humm... Just a thaught, based on a guess about you that
could be wrong. Do you try to bring up this subject with the
women you meet do you. If so, don't. Talk about it if they
as, but make sure it doesn't look as if you are trying to
show them what a catch you are. They need to think that they
are figuring that one out for themselves.
> >
> > There is a local dating service I tried where I got
> dates arranged over the
> > years, but I haven't had much luck.
One big problem with dating services is that they tend to be
used a lot more by men than by women. Hence if you use a
dating service you are imediatly up against a lot of
compertition.
> > Then, there is the use of personal ads in the paper. I
> got a few responses
> > and responded a few times (and got response back), but
> nothing came about it
> > also.
One tip I hear, but I've never tried it. When a woman puts
in a personal add, she may be horrified at the number of
responces, and throw most of the letters in the trash.
However a 2 or weeks later when the flood of letters has
stopped, the reasons why she put the add in in the first
place will still be there, and chances are she hadn't found
the rite guy yet. She may now be wishing she hadn't thrown
out all the letters. Therefore, get a paper with personal
adds in it. Keep it for a couple of weeks and then send off
some letters. With any luck you letter will arrive just when
she was wants to receive a letter, and hence you bypass the
bulk of the compertition.
Also send several letters. You can always use the same basic
letter for each one, and just change a few of the delails.
> >
> > I had some success on the Net getting making contact
> with women, but most of
> > the time, they are not local (tough to manage anything
> where the person is
> > halfway across the USA from you, and you are merely
> friends now).
Same problem as dating agancies. Too many men chasing too
few women.
> > I tried work, and got the cold shoulder pretty much.
> This is besides the
> > usual concerns of sexual harassment charges possibly
> being filed if you ask
Have you tried just aking girls at the office whether they
would like a to come for a drink after work. Ask them as a
friend, and get to know them as a friend to start with, and
then see if it goes anywhere. A girl can hardly file a
lawsuit because you asked if she fancies a drink after work.
> > Well, it goes beyond this. Women I may seem to develop
> positive rapport with
> > are usually involved with someone (aka married, engaged
> or seriously seeing
> > them).
Yep I find most of the nice ones are involved. However I
kept on practicing on the flurts, untill I got pritty good
at it. Eventually you come accross a girl who has perhaps
just broken up with someone, and then all that practice
comes into it's own. I this situation be a good friend to
her, and then once she starts to get over him, you are in a
good position to be her next BF.
> Since I have no interest in being a sleeze, so that is a
> dead end.
Well you don't have to be a sleeze. Get to know these girls
as friends. Then get to know some of theor friends, then
some of their friends etc.... Sooner or later you'll either
come accross a nice single girl, or a girl who has just
broken up with someone.
> >I can also add the age factor to this, where I was over
> 10 years younger than
> > the women I had some rapport with, and it became obvious
> the age difference
> > was a barrier based upon my speaking with them.
Well again, just be friends with them. It is nice to have
female friends, plus it's good practice, and you don't know
what other girls you might meet through them.
> >
> > So, what gives here? Surely, it can't be THIS hard.
> What am I doing wrong,
> > or where may I be having a problem?
I couldn't say what you probelm is, because I don't know
you. However can any of those dating books tall you what you
are doing wrong. Compare what you have been doing with what
the books say, and perhaps you will see some nasty mistakes
that you have been making.
> >Or, is it THIS hard, and that is why
> > people stay in bad relationships out of fear of having
> to go through all this
> > again?
Perhaps.
> Needless to say, due to my experiences, I have developed
> the lifestyle
> > of a functioning single which consists of being able to
> adapt and do things
> > alone. Perhaps this might have something to do with it.
Are you able to be happy with your single life ?? If not
then learn to fake it. If you seem unhappy about being
single then you might be seen as desperate. Being seen as
desperate is something that should be avoided at all costs.
> >
> > Thanks for any feedback you can provide...
> > - Richard Hutnik
Well I hope I was of some help.
Good luck, I've got to go now.
Richard.
--
I have altered my Email Address, to try to avoid Bulk Email
systems.
To Email me, remove the nospam. from my address.
Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE
(http://www.cauce.org)
Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
Courageous <jkra...@san.rr.com> wrote:
> > > I wouldn't call that love, but lust.
> >
> > IMO, most so-called love _is_ lust.
>
> This may be your opinion, but it isn't true. The real truth
> is, you simply can be overwhelmed by the emotion of love
> to someone you don't even know that well. Silly thing,
> but that's the way it works.
That's right.
He proves the point of what a major cause of the malaise of our times
is.
It's not the scarcity of sex, but the scaracity of love of all kinds,
including that between man & woman.
>
> I've certainly fallen in love with women that I didn't know
> that well and didn't even have that strong of a sexual
> chemistry. This would discount your "love is lust" hypothesis,
> which is very weak indeed.
It's sad that so many men think that way.
>
> What, are you accusing all men who say they are in love of
> walking around with constant raging hardons for the object
> of their intentions?
>
> Ridiculous.
You go Courageous!
>
> C/
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
Mark Sobolewski <mar...@home.com> wrote:
> Hello nutmeg,
>
> nutm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > In article <37351F2A...@home.com>,
> > Mark Sobolewski <mar...@home.com> wrote:
> > Many people
> > > you may love (and vice versa) may turn out to be physical which
> > > quickly wanes over time.
> > >
>
> IMO, most so-called love _is_ lust.
That's too bad that you equate love with sex.
>
> People who follow a traditional courtship ritual probably don't
> know ANYTHING about the other person, really, until 2 or 3 years
> after they marry and they discover "he/she isn't the person I
married."
Nah, I don't buy it, not true.
>
> Someone who says/does something to get
sex/social-status/wealth/fantasy
> fulfillment isn't in love, but lust. You can get more satisfaction,
long
> term, from pornography.
Cripes!
>
> BTW, If anyone sees Susie Booby perform, tell her that my brother
> had a good time during his bachelor party even if he was passed out.
:-)
What's that got to do with anything?
>
> --
> "Men RAN things because they could..." -- Marg Petersen
> (Mark A. Sobolewski <ma...@sobolewski.com>)
>
matrix
Vanth wrote in message <01be99c9$0aeaf880$1790...@dsfrank.bellsouth.net>...
>matrix <a___m...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
><7h310c$2vg$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>> > As with cars, there are all kinds of different things each individual
>> calls
>> > attractive. (And like cars, the models and "societal average" changes
>as
>> > well.....few want big fins on their cars these days, just like I'm sure
>> the
>> > "spoilers" are going to be the "big fins" of the future. ;)
>> >
>> There is a baseline level of attractiveness that most men
>> will probably agree on. It's the details that separate one
>> man's preference from another.
>
>You mean that she not have three eyes, ten legs and antenna? And oh yeah,
>not be hiding male anatomy under her dress? ;)
>
Ya...you've read my mind.
>> In other words, if a man considers a woman great looking, another
>> man may consider her average looking. The point is that it's highly
>> unlikely(although possible, of course) that the second man will find
>> her to be below average looking.
>>
>> But the one thing that you can bet on is that nearly all men will
>> agree on what is ugly.
>
>I doubt that. I've been called "ugly" by some men, called "damn cute" by
>others.
Since you're female, you're gonna hear it all...
A guy may tell a girl she's gorgeous(even if she's
not), just because he knows she'll like hearing it.
Likewise, a guy may tell a girl she's ugly(even if she's not),
if, for some reason, he's angry with her.
So if what you are saying is true, I never should have had anyone
>call me cute, or were the "ugly" men just being "ugly" because they are
>"ugly"?
>
Or perhaps you never should have been called ugly?
Most people aren't physically ugly at all.
If I were to venture a guess, I'd say that you weren't.
Philip
t...@delphi.com
>Jesus! Is it really already that bad in China? It seems China will have an
>ENORMOUS problem in the coming decades. . If there will be really to many
>men, then a lot of men will be unlucky (you won't tell me that they are
>just being lucky having their careers) and big struggles will be created,
>even criminal activities to get a woman. Also the men having a woman won't
>be safe and thus lucky anymore...
The criminal activities have already started, in the form of kidnappings.
>I also hope this won't become a reason for China in the future to look at
>other countries (with more women) and try to annex them...(=war!)
>But I think (certainly hope) they will soon realize that women are as
>important as men.
"Modern" China recognizes this, but that's up against centuries of
tradition.
DB
t...@delphi.com
>nutm...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article <7h1e2m$drq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>> What does blonde hair have to do with it?
>
>The theory that all men want blondes. Mainly spoken by most blondes. ;)
breasts too...
>> It makes logical sense to me, face it men are very physical beings.
>> You either do it for them or you don't, it can't be faked.
>
>Oh really? I've heard that prostate exam can be very exciting. ;) Guess the
>
DB
Mark Sobolewski
> Mark Sobolewski wrote:
> > richar...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > I am a 31 single white male. I have had bad luck when
> > it has come to dating.
> > > I have be told numerous times that I am attractive.
>
> Well most women find physical attractiveness of only
> secondary improtance. What counts most is personality. You
> will probably come accross women who are attratcted to your
> particular personality, but you need to find a way to
> present the good parts of your personality, in ways that
> they will notice.
What a load... of... BS!
First off, women have attractiveness requirements at least as
strong as men. Granted, they aren't interested in men's "boobs",
but most have height requirements, look at a man's weight and
physical fitness, and are interested in a good looking mate
as much as men are interested in such qualities in women.
Heck, I'll be honest and say I want a decent looking woman
too so such requirements, by themselves, are not unreasonable
provided they aren't taken to extremes. Just don't deny
they aren't there because they are.
In regards to "personality": Sure, everyone likes someone whose
"personality" provides them with what they want but that's
different than simply "being ourselves." I'm sure if he
presents the "good parts" of his personality (spending lots
of money and doing all the asking out with a big smile
on his face) he'll be more popular than a guy who doesn't
do either or is unhappy about it.
> > > There is a local dating service I tried where I got
> > dates arranged over the
> > > years, but I haven't had much luck.
>
> One big problem with dating services is that they tend to be
> used a lot more by men than by women. Hence if you use a
> dating service you are imediatly up against a lot of
> compertition.
Same could be said for anything. Men in general are more
active about seeking mates than women.
> > > Then, there is the use of personal ads in the paper. I
> > got a few responses
> > > and responded a few times (and got response back), but
> > nothing came about it
> > > also.
>
> One tip I hear, but I've never tried it. When a woman puts
> in a personal add, she may be horrified at the number of
> responces, and throw most of the letters in the trash.
> However a 2 or weeks later when the flood of letters has
> stopped, the reasons why she put the add in in the first
> place will still be there, and chances are she hadn't found
> the rite guy yet. She may now be wishing she hadn't thrown
> out all the letters. Therefore, get a paper with personal
> adds in it. Keep it for a couple of weeks and then send off
> some letters. With any luck you letter will arrive just when
> she was wants to receive a letter, and hence you bypass the
> bulk of the compertition.
Wow! That's a great idea! Has it worked for anyone?
> > > I had some success on the Net getting making contact
> > with women, but most of
> > > the time, they are not local (tough to manage anything
> > where the person is
> > > halfway across the USA from you, and you are merely
> > friends now).
>
> Same problem as dating agancies. Too many men chasing too
> few women.
Which isn't a problem if he _does_ have a unique personality
rather than presenting what most women want to see.
I don't worry about competition too much because by not
worrying about it, I'm unique compared to all the guys
who are trying to impress her. I don't want a woman
who is going to play games anyway.
> > > I tried work, and got the cold shoulder pretty much.
> > This is besides the
> > > usual concerns of sexual harassment charges possibly
> > being filed if you ask
>
> Have you tried just aking girls at the office whether they
> would like a to come for a drink after work. Ask them as a
> friend, and get to know them as a friend to start with, and
> then see if it goes anywhere. A girl can hardly file a
> lawsuit because you asked if she fancies a drink after work.
Sounds to me like he'll get an LJBF that way.
> > > Well, it goes beyond this. Women I may seem to develop
> > positive rapport with
> > > are usually involved with someone (aka married, engaged
> > or seriously seeing
> > > them).
>
> Yep I find most of the nice ones are involved. However I
> kept on practicing on the flurts, untill I got pritty good
> at it. Eventually you come accross a girl who has perhaps
> just broken up with someone, and then all that practice
> comes into it's own. I this situation be a good friend to
> her, and then once she starts to get over him, you are in a
> good position to be her next BF.
Which is pretty incredible if you think about it: That
playing the traditional dating game requires men to
date "leftovers" from failed relationships with other men.
My car had less milage on it when I bought it. :-)
> > Since I have no interest in being a sleeze, so that is a
> > dead end.
>
> Well you don't have to be a sleeze. Get to know these girls
> as friends. Then get to know some of theor friends, then
> some of their friends etc.... Sooner or later you'll either
> come accross a nice single girl, or a girl who has just
> broken up with someone.
Networking is always valuable.
> Are you able to be happy with your single life ?? If not
> then learn to fake it. If you seem unhappy about being
> single then you might be seen as desperate. Being seen as
> desperate is something that should be avoided at all costs.
Yet the same women who react negatively to "desperation" also
expect men to pursue women as if they were desperate.
Bleah!
> > > Thanks for any feedback you can provide...
> > > - Richard Hutnik
>
> Well I hope I was of some help.
>
> Good luck, I've got to go now.
I found the advice about personal ads useful. Thank you.
t...@delphi.com
>But no, let's just pull out any statistic that sounds good and supports our
>beliefs....blah....
DB