Why shouldn't I hate women?
clam...@hotmail.com
Hey, I started out honest and innocent, giving everyone the benefit
of the doubt, but women have made it clear to me that *they* don't want
anything to do with me. When I was young, I mistakenly thought that women
were rational, and if I was kind and respectful, I would be respected in
return. What did it get me? Lots of male friends, yet women who were too
repulsed by me to even make eye contact.
In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
want to go out and do something sometime.... Each one has told me no in some
way or another. Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
(they don't like my dietary preferences, or hobbies, found new mystery men
that they would rather be with, have decided that they just would rather be
single -yeah right-, etc. No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
I've joined clubs, put out personal adds, hung out at social events, and with
no result. Typically, women try hard not even to make eye contact with me....
Often I even have a pertinent reason to speak with a woman ("hey, you dropped
your wallet") and she will try to ignore me,. act like I'm trying to 'hit on'
her.
What annoys me.... women who aren't interested in me (pretty much all
of them) who are too say so. They will 'put up' with you for 2, say 3 dates
then suddenly tell you that they don't want to see you again, that they were
just being 'nice' all along. Sometimes they even get nasty for no good
reason, and almost always they try to turn it around and blame you for
something or another. (and don't tell me that I am pestering them by calling
too often.... I have a very strict 'only call after you have been called'
rule that I enforce at all times). YOU COULD SAVE ME A WHOLE LOT OF TIME AND
MONEY BY BEING HONEST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
But I'm sure that the women who are reading this simply don't care,
because, they are heartless. They have no emotions except for the desire to
take men's money, and a fury at how they are being 'oppressed' by males.
It's fashionable to hate men these days, but the way I see it, the women do
much more to be angry at. In fact, most men I know are the friendly quiet
type who really respect others, with a small group of deviants causing all of
the trouble, wheras most women I know are cruel and selfish, are used to
being treated like the 'princess', and yes, the older I get, the more I
realize that many women are slightly lazy and not so bright. I held back on
forming the last opinion, but how else would you explain the complete lack of
women in academic areas such as the hard sciences at a time when female
affirmative action is at ludicrous levels? (of course I know some brilliant
and kind women, but they all fall at about the 1% level, and then are at such
demand anyway that they suffer from super-princessites).
Proud misogynist
Clambers
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Sunfire1
nowhere. It seems that women now-a-days want muscles and money (at least the
ones in my area). If you don't make 200 grand a year, your nothing or if you
don't look like a body builder, your a shit weakling. This seems to be the
attitude in NY. Also, women tend to flock to the same sex around here - not
that there's anything wrong with that except that what good does it do me.
Forget about relationships buddy and adopt a cat. This way, you'll have
unconditional love always.
Steve P.
clam...@hotmail.com wrote in message <6q2793$c1h$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
panatraeu
most of the men i have met have raped me.
does that mean all men are rapists?
clam...@hotmail.com
zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
> hey
> most of the men i have met have raped me.
> does that mean all men are rapists?
Oh, please.... This is the kind of nonsense I was referring to. Most of the
men you have met have not raped you. The most unlucky person in the world has
been raped maybe three times, you probably know close to 1000 men. Unless you
are a plump hairy butt who likes to hang out in men's prison showers you have
not been raped 1000 times.
Perhaps 1% of men are evil enough to rape a woman, the other 99% are
descent people. On the other hand, perhaps 90% of women act in the way that
I described in my original post (with the other 10% in such demand that they
can pick and choose as they please, aka the princess syndrome).
Clambers
PS- If you have been raped three times I seriously suggest you reevaluate the
places you hang out at.
Matt Helm
clam...@hotmail.com
"Sunfire1" <apol...@juno.com> wrote:
> Your not the only one this happens to. I am also in the same boat leading to
> nowhere. It seems that women now-a-days want muscles and money (at least the
> ones in my area). If you don't make 200 grand a year, your nothing or if you
> don't look like a body builder, your a shit weakling. This seems to be the
> attitude in NY. Also, women tend to flock to the same sex around here - not
> that there's anything wrong with that except that what good does it do me.
> Forget about relationships buddy and adopt a cat. This way, you'll have
> unconditional love always.
The depressing thing is that my lack of money is only a temporary
thing (the muscles thing, well, I gots what I gots on that one).... Someday
I will probably make much more, however, this little dip into the world of
self imposed poverty has probably jaded me for good. Now that I realize how
badly women ignore less than rich men, even friendly honest caring
not-bad-looking less than rich men, it is clear to me that women really only
want us for one reason.
After I start to make more money, well, if my dating potential goes
up, I'll know for sure that the only reason could be because of the money.
And seeing that I couldn't respect a woman sleazy enough to only want my
money (might as well start seeing prostitutes if I want that), I'll probably
never date again. Perhaps that prostitute idea ain't so bad, at least they
are being honest about it....
Clambers
Filip M. Gieszczykiewicz
>Stop trying to hard. be yourself. all of the other cliches.
LOL! Also the hardest of all advice... because to _be_ yourself
you actually have to _be_ first... and while we're all given the
tools to _get to know_ ourselves, few take the effort... and
learn who they are... and then learn how grand life is... and
as soon as they stop _needing_ others to _give_ them happiness,
because they now internally generate it through knowledge of
themselves - trust me, it works (and I'm not a lawyer :-) -
when they _live_... they begin to attract others to their
warmth... it's all natural after the first few baby steps..
and soon enough you're running 100m sprints and marathons
and setting new personal-bests... which, you also learn, are
so much more rewarding than some ditzy races with silly,
arbitrary prizes that mean absolutely nothing... once you
_are_, _you_ are the reason why you _are_... so you, we
come full circle, _be ourselves_ because that's what we then
are. Except it's a lot simpler than I make it sound :-)
--
Filip "I'll buy a vowel" Gieszczykiewicz | http://www.repairfaq.org/~filipg/
Always and everything for the better!
Now exploring whatever, life, and the meaning of it all... and 'not' :-)
Filip M. Gieszczykiewicz
>In article <35c4aa1f....@news.mindspring.com>,
>Perhaps 1% of men are evil enough to rape a woman, the other 99% are
>descent people. On the other hand, perhaps 90% of women act in the way that
>I described in my original post (with the other 10% in such demand that they
>can pick and choose as they please, aka the princess syndrome).
Quick, do me a favor. Peek outside and look up, what color
is the sky over yonder?
Chris D
Because they can't help who they like, anymore than us guys can help who we
like.
> Hey, I started out honest and innocent, giving everyone the benefit
>of the doubt, but women have made it clear to me that *they* don't want
>anything to do with me.
Honesty and innocence aren't very sexually attractive traits in a man (except to
very few, rare women who are always taken because to those few and rare women
there are an abundance of men with those qualities seeking her out.)
>When I was young, I mistakenly thought that women
>were rational, and if I was kind and respectful, I would be respected in
>return. What did it get me? Lots of male friends, yet women who were too
>repulsed by me to even make eye contact.
I don't know what the problem is. Maybe you seem too demanding in a particular
way, or you have too strict a set of rules or something that might annoy women.
Maybe you seem resentful of women. I don't know. There are lots of
possibilities. If I met you in person I might be able to get an idea of what,
if anything, they might find unacceptable in you. I've only gone out with one
female in my entire life, and she soon told me that she didn't really like me
either, and was just being nice to me. She was at first willing to remain
friends, but then backed out on that too. She later, after much introspection,
decided she was lesbian and then sought out other females. I'm 24 years old.
I've asked out maybe 3 or 4 women in my life.
> In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
>want to go out and do something sometime....
That's a lot of women. Maybe you could pick out women more carefully.
>Each one has told me no in some
>way or another. Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
>(they don't like my dietary preferences, or hobbies, found new mystery men
>that they would rather be with, have decided that they just would rather be
>single -yeah right-, etc. No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
>real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
>money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
Some of them probably gave you real reasons. Others didn't. I'm only 5'4"
myself and I don't make a lot of money (right now I make nothing because I have
no job... still). You can see my picture at www.mindspring.com/~cdubose, though
I'll say that I don't normally look as cold, stern, or condescending as I do in
the photo. But then maybe I do. I don't know. I know I'm not photogenic.
> I've joined clubs,
Clubs generally are not good places to meet the kind of women you seem to be
looking for. Mostly the social butterfly, shallow women attend those clubs.
They more than others are going to look for the cool, buff jock type of person.
Universities would tend to have the type of women you're looking for, though
universities don't lend themselves to being easy places to meet women. I met
virtually none my entire 4.5 years at Cal Poly Pomona, where I got my degree in
Computer Science.
>put out personal adds,
Personal ads are futile if you're not tall and/or don't have a lot of money. In
fact, the L.A. Times wouldn't even publish my ad the one time I tried because it
stated my low height, and that I liked computers. The airheaded woman who
censored these ads said it made me look too geeky and made me look too much like
a virgin. So she changed the ad completely to make me look much more desirable
(including adding lies) and I never got any responses anyway. Not only that,
but generally only older men are sought out by the women who look for dates in
the personal ads. In the "women seeking men" ads, there was not a single ad I
could find that included an age range under 25. And there were hundreds of ads.
>hung out at social events,
I'm too shy and uncomfortable to go to social events so I can't say whether this
would be a good way or not.
>and with
>no result. Typically, women try hard not even to make eye contact with me....
>Often I even have a pertinent reason to speak with a woman ("hey, you dropped
>your wallet") and she will try to ignore me,. act like I'm trying to 'hit on'
>her.
You could be right, in which case I would say that not all women come to
assumptions like that (though the more sought-after ones are more likely to.)
> What annoys me.... women who aren't interested in me (pretty much all
>of them) who are too say so. They will 'put up' with you for 2, say 3 dates
>then suddenly tell you that they don't want to see you again, that they were
>just being 'nice' all along.
That happened to me the one time I ever went out with anybody. It sucks, but
you can't really blame them for it. They can't help it if they're not attracted
to a particular person any more than we men can't help it.
>Sometimes they even get nasty for no good
>reason, and almost always they try to turn it around and blame you for
>something or another.
It could be a defense they put on to try to mask the fact that you don't turn
them on. But also, their complaints could be completely honest and what they
say is truly what's bothering them (the latter probably only a small percentage
of the time.)
>(and don't tell me that I am pestering them by calling
>too often.... I have a very strict 'only call after you have been called'
>rule that I enforce at all times).
I wouldn't presume that to be the reason they're rejecting you.
>YOU COULD SAVE ME A WHOLE LOT OF TIME AND
>MONEY BY BEING HONEST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
A lot of women don't know if they like you or not until they go out with you.
That's why they give you a chance. They decide later they don't like you for
some or another. If you simply don't turn them on, they're unlikely to be
honest about that, and frankly I think most men are the same way. Most men
though never have to use that kind of defense because they generally make the
choices about who to ask out and are not often asked out themselves (well,
perhaps some men are asked out a lot. I'm just thinking about myself, who
hasn't been asked on any sort of date since 9th grade.) Also, men are usually
more anxious to get a relationship to work at greater cost because they're more
attracted to women than women are to men (well, that's how I see it).
> But I'm sure that the women who are reading this simply don't care,
>because, they are heartless.
No, not because they are heartless, but because there are a lot of people here
hurting and they can't help everybody (this goes for men too). Also, some of
them might see this post as a whine.
>They have no emotions except for the desire to
>take men's money, and a fury at how they are being 'oppressed' by males.
That's an extreme generalization, and offensive to women. You may be
over-reactive and defensive, which will either annoy most women or make them shy
away from you. Though I often seem over-reactive and defensive on the newsgroup
even though that's not how I am with people I don't know very well in real life.
>It's fashionable to hate men these days, but the way I see it, the women do
>much more to be angry at. In fact, most men I know are the friendly quiet
>type who really respect others, with a small group of deviants causing all of
>the trouble, wheras most women I know are cruel and selfish, are used to
>being treated like the 'princess',
You may be going after a specific group of women that are like that. Otherwise
you are overgeneralizing. Though I feel for you and know it can seem that way.
>and yes, the older I get, the more I
>realize that many women are slightly lazy and not so bright.
The type of women who are social, go to clubs, and respond to personal ads may
be more like what you say than the general population. It's also just an easy
generalization to make that's not true. If men are bending over backwards to
win the heart of a particular woman, then it's not surprising that she is lazy.
If multiple women bent over backwards to try to win me over, I wouldn't have
much incentive to not be lazy or to be intelligent myself. And when I think
about it, I think men are a lot lazier than men. Or rather it's more
complicated. Most men will be more lazy about doing housework than women while
most women will be more lazy than men about.... um.... fixing the cabinet or
building a doghouse or something I guess. I don't think about it too much
because laziness isn't an important attribute to me. I am lazy myself, compared
to most men or women. I don't care if she's lazy or not.
As for intelligence, that's more important. When you say so bright, you
probably mean she tends not to talk about technical things very much, or
understand technical things very much. If that's true, there are many reasons
for that, none of which women should be blamed for. The reasons vary from not
being as interested in technical things as men to not wanting to intimidate a
man with her technical expertise. I even think (though it might just be me)
that some women don't want to get technical or seem intelligent because it might
please me or other nerds too much and make them more interested in her. But I
don't know if that's true or not.
>I held back on
>forming the last opinion, but how else would you explain the complete lack of
>women in academic areas such as the hard sciences at a time when female
>affirmative action is at ludicrous levels?
There are many factors. Computer programming for example, my major: I don't
know how to articulate it but I know that for some reason most women are
intimidated by that major, or uncomfortable in the classes that are nearly all
male. I think maybe it's because they feel there's too much attention on them,
especially if they are the least bit physically attractive. They don't want to
be too sought after. I could be wrong. Though it might be true for some.
Another reason could be they just feel out of place, the same way a man feels
out of place in the bra department of a department store (poor analogy I know).
Though the "out-of-place" feeling is a paradox because if women feel out of
place then they will not go into the sciences, causing the number of women to
fall, making the women who are left feel more "out-of-place". Probably a big
reason is that boys at a young age are encouraged to be more technical than
girls, and therefore develop that sort of mindset that works well for
engineering and science. The biggest factor, which all of the above fit into in
one way or another, is sex roles. The sex roles are disappearing though (and I
hope they continue to for my sake) and maybe one day a woman will feel as
comfortable in computer science as a man. It takes certain qualities to not
only be good at computer programming, but to enjoy (or at least tolerate) being
in the software development industry. Many women don't like it because it tends
to be an isolating job (and women are more social than men) and there are other
things that most women (and many men) don't like about it.
>(of course I know some brilliant
>and kind women, but they all fall at about the 1% level, and then are at such
>demand anyway that they suffer from super-princessites).
Yeah. *sigh* I don't think most of them grow big egos, but they are highly
sought after by my peers and therefore I can't really consider those women.
Besides, the more intelligent women seem to like me less than the less
intelligent women, because they see more flaws in me. The less intelligent can
at least be impressed with my computer programming intelligence because they
think it's so cool, while the computer programming women couldn't care less.
And I don't really have any redeeming qualities that any intelligent woman would
like. I don't even have a good philosophical mind. I can't draw worth shit. I
can't write poetry worth shit. I can't speak eloquently in person worth shit.
And, well, I'm short. Dumb and smart alike like tall. For millions of years
there was evolutionary pressure to be tall and to be attracted to tall. I'm not
athletic at all. I can't become well-muscled. I'm poorly coordinated (other
attributes that fly in the face of evolutionary pressure). I can't learn to
play an instrument because I'm not coordinated enough. I guess I can't sing
very well though *I* think I can sing okay, everybody else thinks my singing is
pretty bad, or at best average. I make women too uncomfortable because I'm
often tense around them, and can't think of things to say, or rather, I can't
think of the RIGHT things to say (that's probably the biggest obstacle of all
really). And yes, like one person once said, I know how to take any post and
turn it into a post about me. I'm self-centered, though at least that is
something I can change if I work at it, unlike all the other things.
Wow, I have enough truly major unchangeable undesirable qualities to fit 13
full-length lines. And I probably have many more undesirable qualities I'm not
thinking about (and don't really want to think about).
chris
Jon Cohen
>Why shouldn't I hate women?
>
>of the doubt, but women have made it clear to me that *they* don't want
>were rational, and if I was kind and respectful, I would be respected in
>return. What did it get me? Lots of male friends, yet women who were too
>repulsed by me to even make eye contact.
Well, you're right about one thing, at least. Most women want more than
someone who is kind and respectful.
Are the women who are "too repulsed by [you] to even make eye contact"
women you have just met, or women you have met several times before.
Especially if they are women you have just met, you had better take a
long, hard look about your appearance. The way you dress and your
personal hygiene makes more of a difference to most people (including
women) than your height or income. I'm sure there are some women who
are hung up on height or some other physical attribute you cannot
change, but most are not (in my experience). The guys don't care as
much, because they aren't worried that you will want to date them or
hope that they will be attracted to you.
>
> In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
>want to go out and do something sometime.... Each one has told me no in some
>way or another. Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
>(they don't like my dietary preferences, or hobbies, found new mystery men
>that they would rather be with, have decided that they just would rather be
>single -yeah right-, etc. No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
>real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
>money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
This last line is a pretty lame excuse.
It's an excuse not to take a closer look at yourself, and to blame
things that are difficult to change. You'll never make yourself taller,
and no matter how much money you make (within reason), you'll always be
able to suspect that the woman wanted someone who made more.
It's an excuse not to examine your appearance and your personality.
Something about one or both of these either turns women off or scares
them away. Most of us are either scared to examine our personality or
don't know how to go about doing it. We feel that if we can't be
ourselves, exactly as we are now, that we should accept our fate. While
I do agree that you must mostly be who you are without some fake front,
there's nothing wrong with examining our tendencies to see if some of
them disturb other people (much like trying to reduce or eliminate "bad
habits").
Let me make an important disclaimer here. I don't know you, have never
seen or met you, etc. You say very little about yourself except the way
you feel women react towards you, and I am merely taking you at your
word (and assuming that your intuitions are accurate). Lots of people
have trouble finding a really compatible partner. I didn't date anyone
until I was about 21, but I then dated one woman for 3 years, and my
current girlfriend for 4 years, and I have not "settled" for women I was
not attracted too and incredibly happy with. It may be that if you just
keep looking, you will eventually find someone who is attracted to you
exactly the way you are. But it can't hurt to investigate what would
make more women less "repulsed", as you say.
...
>Proud misogynist
>Clambers
Unfortunately, if you truly hate women, you create a self-fulfilling
prophesy, and you will have no luck with them. Fortunately, you don't
seem to have gone too far down that road yet. It will be much more
productive for you to work on "improving" yourself in the eyes of others
than to despise half of the world's population.
Good luck! If you've got a male friend who you can trust, who has at
least slightly better luck with women than you, and who seems to have a
pretty good perspective on life, maybe it's time to have a
heart-to-heart talk with him about the way you are perceived. Of
course, a woman friend you can trust would work well also, but you sound
like you may have scared most of them off for the moment.
I really hope things get better for you, and I'm sorry if my response
seems too critical.
Jon
Chris D
That's 10 times as many women as I thought that will see how hopeless I am. :(
chris
Chris D
>
>In Article <6q2k8q$ai4$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>, through puissant locution, "Matt Helm" <matt...@gte.net> soliloquized:
>>Stop trying to hard. be yourself. all of the other cliches.
>
>LOL! Also the hardest of all advice... because to _be_ yourself
>you actually have to _be_ first... and while we're all given the
>tools to _get to know_ ourselves, few take the effort... and
>learn who they are... and then learn how grand life is... and
>as soon as they stop _needing_ others to _give_ them happiness,
>because they now internally generate it through knowledge of
>themselves - trust me, it works (and I'm not a lawyer :-) -
>when they _live_... they begin to attract others to their
>warmth... it's all natural after the first few baby steps..
>and soon enough you're running 100m sprints and marathons
>and setting new personal-bests... which, you also learn, are
>so much more rewarding than some ditzy races with silly,
>arbitrary prizes that mean absolutely nothing... once you
>_are_, _you_ are the reason why you _are_... so you, we
>come full circle, _be ourselves_ because that's what we then
>are. Except it's a lot simpler than I make it sound :-)
Good advice, though it is simpler than it sounds. What if the true "you" is a
person who is very unattractive to women? That is my case, and the only chance
I'll ever have a getting a temporary date is to put on a good act and make
myself seem much different from who I really am. And even then I know that
would only work for a short time because I at least can't hide the "true me" for
very long. I'm a very poor actor. (That's another negative quality I have.
It's also partly why I've been jobless for 7 months and counting now, despite my
exceptional computer programming skills and my BS degree in Computer Science.)
chris
Sepideh Baghaii
up. I am tired of being the mender. Why can't they like me? Don't they see
that I am not her? I brought a boy home the other night. He cried because it
had been so long since someone held him and looked into those beautiful blue
eyes. I don't see how she could be a vegetarian and eat him alive.
Chris, women do not always love innocent men. I love the dangerous ones and
the skinny ones and the fat ones and the safe ones. It isn't all this or
that. It is a combination of things.
Chris D (cdu...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: I didn't even notice that this was cross-posted to alt.romance and soc.women.
: That's 10 times as many women as I thought that will see how hopeless I am. :(
: chris
--
*It's because I come from a long line of Southern psychotics and an
environment where madness is currency and conversation is blood
sport. -- Actress Elizabeth Ashley
Chris D
thread. Another reason I need to just accept the fact that I will never have a
girlfriend or get into a relationship. i'm just too fucking stupid. i don't
relate well enough to women. i'm just too fucking stupid. and there's nothing
i can do about it. and that's on top of all the other negative qualities i
have. nobody responds to this because they can't think of anything to say
because it's all too clear to them that i'm right about myself. so they move on
and concentrate on the men who may actually have a chance(s) of meeting women.
cdu...@mindspring.com (Chris D) wrote:
>
>clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>Why shouldn't I hate women?
>
>Because they can't help who they like, anymore than us guys can help who we
>like....blahblahblah-other-stupid-crap
chris
Ray Gordon
I have a couple of questions to ask and some comments to
make, because I see posts like this every so often, and get really tired
of
it. So I'm going do the same thing that YOU are doing... hold YOU
responsible not only for your own words, but the words of all the other
posters who spew the same kind of hatred. Just like you are holding ME
and
every woman in these 3 groups responsible for the women who rejected you.
<-----------Typical female: ILLOGICAL. He writes "Why shouldn't I hate
women?" and you respond by saying he's holding you responsible for the
rejection he has endured. Where exactly is the logical connection? He
asked for a good reason not to hate women. You did not give him one.
You're losing 1-0 already and the debate just began.
Why are you here in groups with so many women? What do you possibly hope
to gain? APPROVAL for and ACCEPTANCE of your hatred of us???? That
would
be utterly STUPID to expect. As if I'm going to open my heart to someone
who hates me without ever knowing anything about me. Yeah RIGHT.
pshhhht.
You may think I'm stupid, but I'm not THAT stupid.
<---------Your past relationships of course would not indicate stupidity
on your part, right? He is posting here to bring his complaint to women.
He is COMMUNICATING HIS TRUE FEELINGS and getting psychologically RAPED
for doing so. I used to be like him: once a guy learns to stop kissing
up to women like yourself he's got it made. You are taking advantage of
the fact that he hasn't learned this yet and beating up on a straw-man.
Ever consider that perhaps your anger and bitterness is all over your
face
and body language and leaks out in your day-to-day words and actions and
that it might be driving women away in droves?
<----------You make it sound like a man who drives women away "in droves"
as you put it is a bad man of some kind. Would you care to explain why
men like OJ Simpson and the other two million abusers in this country do
NOT drive women away in droves? Or why men who lie, cheat, and transmit
STDs do not? Women are not validators of male worth, or even accurate
judges of male character. Considering how stupid women are at picking
men, I would think that the men they reject are decent, not losers.
Losers are what women fuck and reproduce, not what they ignore. Pardon me
for saying this, for you were rude first, but you are a stupid cunt.
Ever consider that maybe women are smart enough to sense when someone is
going to be an emotional burden on them and, again, run away in droves?
<-------Ever consider that women are STUPID when it comes to the men they
do NOT run away from? One part of the selection/rejection equation
cannot be wrong and the other correct. Women choose wrong, and they
reject wrong. Stupid cunt.
Ever consider that maybe WE aren't responsible for making YOU happy?
<-----And no man is responsible for making YOU happy. So tell every
woman who posts here the same thing: to just deal with it if she doesn't
like us.
We are responsble for making our own selves happy and we have to do what
we
THINK will get us there, such as dating or marrying someone else.
<----And women are just SO good at making the right choice there. Stupid
cunt.
And even making mistakes in doing so. Regardless of whether it suits
YOUR
plans or not. NO ONE is going to take care of me and my needs. And I am
not going to take care of anyone else's. I want a whole person who won't
be a burden on me. Someone who is equally capable of his own self-care.
It's hard enough just to take care of myself and any future children.
<----So put an ad in the paper for a husband. No emotional attachment
necessary. Jeez....every man and woman for himself and herself: we
survive, with no one to thank and no favors owed.
I want an emotional EQUAL who can help me care for children, not someone
who
wants to be another emotional child.
<-----You are a stupid, emotional child yourself. Therefore, you will
wind up with a man who is also one. Stupid cunt.
Ever consider that maybe *everyone* in this world has do to a song and
dance to get noticed? Why do you think that YOU are exempt from making
all
the appropriate mating dance maneuvers? Why do you think that you can do
a
half-assed job of it and be successful when the rest of us can't get away
with that either? Why do you think you are more special than us?
<-----How have your past relationships been? I know about 50 million
women in this country who are pretty damn unhappy. What happens to their
fine judgement when they encounter OTHER men? Stupid cunt.
Ever consider that women who aren't "honest" in the first place are at
least paying enough attention to YOUR ego to try to be nice? Pardon us
for
TRYING not to hurt you needlessly, and pardon us for assuming that *you*
are smart enough to read between the lines. Geez.
<---------And you wonder why men get cynical. A woman is polite, she's
interested, but what if she's asking me to "read between the lines?" I
ignore her when I shouldn't and she gets mad; I pursue her when I
shouldn't and she gets mad. Who gave the woman power to dictate reality?
Women act like it's a crime for a man they are uninterested in to pursue
them. This is why I advise men to become what women want, point out
every mistake a woman makes in love, and never pursue women. Drives the
stupid cunts nuts.
On the other hand, maybe they aren't trying to be nice. Maybe they are
trying to protect themselves from your anger. Sounds like a smart thing
to
do, to me. Self-preservation. Maybe women aren't so stupid after all.
<---------Two million women a year are beaten by their lovers. Fifty
million or so are cheated on. Women are VERY stupid.
Do you really think I'm going list out all my attributes that might or
might not deny your characterizaton of me? Defend myself? Debate with
you
or say "awww, I'm so sorry. Let me fix it. Let me list all the
wonderful
things about women that you're forgotten." Yeah, right.... and leave
myself open to having you knock it down bit by bit, or use it to flail me
and other women with?
<-----------Well, since he has no chance with women, he can treat you ANY
WAY HE LIKES and not have anything to risk. He's now in a
nothing-to-lose position with you and every other woman. Even if he
offends you, what has he lost? Nothing?
You ooze hatred. If I came in contact with you and sensed it, I'd run
away
as fast as I could.
<------Why don't women run away from the OJ-types, or the cheater types?
Stupid cunt.
There. Is that honest enough for you? Are you going to respect that?
Or
are you going to deny every word I've said? I guess we'll see.
<---------You want honesty? Let's talk about office whores.
"Independent" women who are anything but. Women who take money from men.
Women who lie to men. Women who attempt psychological rape as you did
here. Stupid cunt. I learned a long time ago how to deal with cunts
like you, which is to laugh. What's really amusing is that the
negativity in your voice gives away very subtly that you aren't too
physically attractive. I won't say how, but it's very reliable.
Either way, I don't expect you to hear a single word of this. Because in
MY experience, men like YOU don't want to hear anything except agreement
of
your hate. Kind of an irrational thing for you to expect from women,
don't
you think?
<--------Women are the queens of illogic and irrationality. They are
emotional, selfish, unethical liars who are good for one thing and one
thing only. Men suffer from Pussy Blindness and think a hot body
translates into something other than a garbage personality. It doesn't.
And the man who asks a stupid cunt for the truth about women is not very
wise himself.
--
__________________________________________________________________
"I would rather be loved by only me,
than create a facade and be loved by no one" -- wombn
"I AM SIGNIFICANT! screamed the dust speck", Calvin & Hobbes
__________________________________________________________________
abusive email sent to me might be posted in the newsgroup(s) at my
discretion.
anon-...@anon.twwells.com, x-no-archive: yes is in the headers
http://www.mindspring.com/~wombn
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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Kim Johnson
>
>of the doubt, but women have made it clear to me that *they* don't want
>anything to do with me. When I was young, I mistakenly thought that women
>were rational, and if I was kind and respectful, I would be respected in
>return. What did it get me? Lots of male friends, yet women who were too
>repulsed by me to even make eye contact.
>
> In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
>want to go out and do something sometime.... Each one has told me no in
some
>way or another. Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
>(they don't like my dietary preferences, or hobbies, found new mystery men
>that they would rather be with, have decided that they just would rather be
>single -yeah right-, etc. No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
>real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
>money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
speak? I don't expect to go out with Brad Pitt, but I do expect a man that
I date to have the basic personality and philisophical leanings I do. I
don't date males, only men. I don't date fundies, repubs, frenzied FR's, of
men that I work with. I don't date men that are older than me(usually too
controlling--broke that "rule" last year and he was the stereotypical older
male). I don't date males that start a conversation with, "You women are
all the same...." or some such drivel.....or "Hi, my name is ________, lets
go out".
>
> I've joined clubs, put out personal adds, hung out at social events, and
with
>no result. Typically, women try hard not even to make eye contact with
me....
>Often I even have a pertinent reason to speak with a woman ("hey, you
dropped
>your wallet") and she will try to ignore me,. act like I'm trying to 'hit
on'
>her.
Sounds like that you probably act desparate.....can't stand that in either
gender.
>
> What annoys me.... women who aren't interested in me (pretty much all
>of them) who are too say so. They will 'put up' with you for 2, say 3
dates
>then suddenly tell you that they don't want to see you again, that they
were
>just being 'nice' all along. Sometimes they even get nasty for no good
>reason, and almost always they try to turn it around and blame you for
>something or another. (and don't tell me that I am pestering them by
calling
>too often.... I have a very strict 'only call after you have been called'
>rule that I enforce at all times). YOU COULD SAVE ME A WHOLE LOT OF TIME
AND MONEY BY BEING HONEST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Could be that the first couple of dates, you act nice....then the
whiner/complainer/control freak/whatever comes out in you and she runs to
save her life.
>
> But I'm sure that the women who are reading this simply don't care,
>because, they are heartless. They have no emotions except for the desire
to
>take men's money, and a fury at how they are being 'oppressed' by males.
>It's fashionable to hate men these days, but the way I see it, the women do
>much more to be angry at. In fact, most men I know are the friendly quiet
>type who really respect others, with a small group of deviants causing all
of
>the trouble, wheras most women I know are cruel and selfish, are used to
>being treated like the 'princess', and yes, the older I get, the more I
>realize that many women are slightly lazy and not so bright. I held back
on
>forming the last opinion, but how else would you explain the complete lack
of
>women in academic areas such as the hard sciences at a time when female
>affirmative action is at ludicrous levels? (of course I know some
brilliant
>and kind women, but they all fall at about the 1% level, and then are at
such
>demand anyway that they suffer from super-princessites).
Yep---you sound just like the type of male I'd give up a night to spend
with....actually I'd rather be cleaning the toilet....better company than
your type. Also, if you are running into the same brick wall, doesn't it
make a bit of sense for you to see that part of it is you? I've dated some
real jerks and when I went back and contemplated the problem...I had to
learn what I did wrong; I was worth a lot more than they could ever amount
to or its just the old, "can't have two suns in a relationship......somebody
has to play moon" and I shine too much. Have you ever tried therapy...lot
of misplaced anger in you post. If all a woman did was go out with you for
a couple of dates and then tried to let you down easy....I wish my life had
been that easy. Go ahead hate women....none of us will probably lose too
much sleep.
>
>Proud misogynist
>Clambers
and he's still single and hating every minute of it
Sinatra's the only one who got it "his way"
panatraeu
>In article <35c4aa1f....@news.mindspring.com>,
> zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
>> hey
>> most of the men i have met have raped me.
>> does that mean all men are rapists?
>
> Oh, please.... This is the kind of nonsense I was referring to. Most of the
>men you have met have not raped you.
how the hell would you know ?
>The most unlucky person in the world has
>been raped maybe three times, you probably know close to 1000 men.
oh yeah right! my father my brother and two friends, thats 1000 all
right!
> Unless you
>are a plump hairy butt who likes to hang out in men's prison showers you have
>not been raped 1000 times.
i have been raped at least 25 times.
>
> Perhaps 1% of men are evil enough to rape a woman, the other 99% are
>descent people.
bullshit more like 10% are evil enough, but were not statitions are
we?
> On the other hand, perhaps 90% of women act in the way that
>I described in my original post (with the other 10% in such demand that they
>can pick and choose as they please, aka the princess syndrome).
thats right, and i will continue to pick and choose cus i *am* a
princess.
>
>Clambers
>
>PS- If you have been raped three times I seriously suggest you reevaluate the
>places you hang out at.
oh yeah,. so its my fault?
how bout the first 20 or so times before i was 10 years old, should i
have hung out elsewhere then too ?
i can see why no one wants to be around you.
seville
I regret having to say this but some guys are just not likable. I work with a guy
who is of average appearance (I suppose 6'1" and mostly fit) and maybe better than
average intelligence but he never shuts up. Ever. And he only talks about
things he has done. Over and over again. At times he even follows fellow workers
into the restroom to continue talking. Plus he gets mad unreasonably and holds
grudges forever. If it were possible to hold a two way conversation with him it
would not be so bad but he always manages to make a monologue out of it.. The guy
is turning 40 this year and hasn't a clue as to why he never found the right
woman.
Marg Petersen
>
> The depressing thing is that my lack of money is only a temporary
>thing (the muscles thing, well, I gots what I gots on that one).... Someday
>I will probably make much more, however, this little dip into the world of
>self imposed poverty has probably jaded me for good. Now that I realize how
>badly women ignore less than rich men, even friendly honest caring
>not-bad-looking less than rich men, it is clear to me that women really only
>want us for one reason.
SOME women, please. Not ALL women are mercenary individuals, just
like not ALL men are scumbags. Okay? Now, having said that, what
can you do? Well, not much really. As my saintly grandma used
to tell me; "somewhere in this old world, there IS someone for you.
For every sock, there is a shoe. Just keep looking." And in my
*younger* days, I felt much like you (although without the hatred
of men that you seem to have for women). I merely believed that
NO ONE would ever be interested in ME. How wrong I was! Somehow,
some way (I'm not certain just how even today), I finally FOUND
my soulmate. Really and truly. And how did I go about it? Well,
one thing I know is that I started doing things that interested ME,
not others, or to impress others, but things I actually liked to
do and wanted to do. I figured that even IF no one was going to
be interested in me at the least I would be doing something *I*
found enjoyable. And of course (as you most probably have heard
from others, or maybe not), WHEN I became interested in doing
things and actually having something that made ME interesting,
well the men just started coming out of the woodwork! I suddenly
found myself *almost* (:-) ) overwhelmed. Got to pick and choose,
I did and I picked a winner. 35 years and going strong.
Good luck and may the force be with you. :-)
>Clambers
>
Marg
--
Marg Petersen Member PSEB: Official Sonneteer JLP-SOL
god...@peak.org http://www.peak.org/~goddess
"At ease Ensign, before you sprain something." - Capt. Janeway
seville
Hey workguy, turn around .... and, turn around you forgot to mention Germany, turn
around, and say "turn around" every fourth word, turn around.
missanthropissed
term *Women* is meaningless. Every single person on this planet is unique.
So you're having problems finding a good woman. Many women have problems
finding a good man. Join the fucking crowd.
Hating all women because of the experiences you've had thus far is not going
to help you find a good one.
People need others for all kinds of reasons, some healthy, some not. I for
one don't give a flying fuck about money or muscles.
I think if you try to be a good, kind, loving person, love will eventually
come to you. It just takes a tremendous amount of effort and patience.
--
peeRATgrrl
"doh"
http:/pages.prodigy.net/hotep/index.htm
Dorsi
obviously stupid and it's once again bringing out alot of shit that I
really don't wanna listen to write now..
Dorsi
ferret
On Sun, 02 Aug 1998 16:30:58 -0700, seville <sev...@de-janews.com>
wrote:
hey! seville!!!!
it's been a while since you and i've been able to chat, hasn't it????
you know, it's really touching that you remember me, after all this
time! you know, i'd always kind of thought that maybe you didn't like
me all that much, i mean, well, after that time i followed you into
the bathroom so that you would be able to hear the end of my toenail
splinter story....well, let's just say that i took your calling the
police as a bad sign, but, hey! since you're still talking about me, i
guess i was wrong!
so, eh, wanna go out sometime? i've bucketloads of new stories that i
*know* you'll want to hear!
anyway, look forward to hearing from you!
workguy
Filip M. Gieszczykiewicz
>Good advice, though it is simpler than it sounds. What if the true
>"you" is a person who is very unattractive to women? That is my
>case, and the only chance I'll ever have a getting a temporary date
>is to put on a good act and make myself seem much different from
>who I really am. And even then I know that would only work for a
>short time because I at least can't hide the "true me" for very
>long. I'm a very poor actor. (That's another negative quality I
>have. It's also partly why I've been jobless for 7 months and
>counting now, despite my exceptional computer programming skills
>and my BS degree in Computer Science.)
Do you consider your "negatives" to be where:
a) self-image
b) physical undeniablities
c) employment/achievement(-less) related
d) grave psychological problems (schitzo axe-murder, Jekyl/Hyde, etc)
Also, your option of yourself comes from:
e) deep and detailed self-analysis
f) opinions of others (not SO's)
g) opinions of SO's
h) opinions of family members
i) professional opinion (more than one?)
j) judge/penal system/coroner (in case of (d) ;-)
k) literature/society/media
Give me two letters from each section... a range is OK too :-)
jfpbo...@my-dejanews.com
cdu...@mindspring.com wrote:
> Good advice, though it is simpler than it sounds. What if the true "you" is a
> person who is very unattractive to women?
Then you have the following options:
Pretend to be someone you're not. This strategy is probably good for
short-term relationships, but bad for long-term ones because once she finds
out it was all an act she'll likely split.
Continue to be who you are. Very few people (possibly none) are unattractive
to everybody. You'll probably eventually meet someone who will like you for
you, as long as you remain open to the possibility. Of course, the time
spent waiting for this can be tough.
Try to change who you are. This may or may not be possible, but if you try
this try to change into who you want to be, not who you think other people
want you to be.
Filip M. Gieszczykiewicz
>My response, though longer, is stupider than any other male's response in this
>thread. Another reason I need to just accept the fact that I will never have a
>girlfriend or get into a relationship. i'm just too fucking stupid. i don't
>relate well enough to women. i'm just too fucking stupid. and there's nothing
>i can do about it. and that's on top of all the other negative qualities i
>have. nobody responds to this because they can't think of anything to say
>because it's all too clear to them that i'm right about myself. so they
>move on and concentrate on the men who may actually have a chance(s) of
>meeting women.
I'm glad you're so _certain_ of yourself. How does it feel to have
such a grip on [negative] self-confidence? Imagine the absolute
opposite feeling... that's your goal. :-)
jackf...@my-dejanews.com
The problem with that is that it's pointless, and that it'll get you nowhere.
Reasess. Find out what you're doing wrong, and do something different. Get
advice from other people, and change. It does sound like you're bitter, and
that's not going to do you much good vis-a-vis women. If I were in your
position, I'd get books on the subject, and check with friends, male and
female and find out what I could do differently.
motoyen
that she knows close to 1000 men? Maybe her definition of "meeting men" is different
from yours. How do you know 90% of woman act a certain way? Have you met 90% of the
female population? Maybe they act that way to you because your a loser. That is not
the females fault, it is yours for being a loser. Her being raped it hardly her fault.
Stop being a loser and things will change.
clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <35c4aa1f....@news.mindspring.com>,
> zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
> > hey
> > most of the men i have met have raped me.
> > does that mean all men are rapists?
>
> Oh, please.... This is the kind of nonsense I was referring to. Most of the
> men you have met have not raped you. The most unlucky person in the world has
> been raped maybe three times, you probably know close to 1000 men. Unless you
> are a plump hairy butt who likes to hang out in men's prison showers you have
> not been raped 1000 times.
>
> Perhaps 1% of men are evil enough to rape a woman, the other 99% are
> descent people. On the other hand, perhaps 90% of women act in the way that
> I described in my original post (with the other 10% in such demand that they
> can pick and choose as they please, aka the princess syndrome).
>
> Clambers
>
> PS- If you have been raped three times I seriously suggest you reevaluate the
> places you hang out at.
>
motoyen
wombn wrote:
> I'm thinking a couple of things here....
>
> 1) You're a troll. Deliberately posting (and crossposting) insulting stuff
> to get a rise out of people. In which case, I'm playing right into it.
> Knowingly. So maybe you're right: women are stupid. I am if I'm playing
> into your game, aren't I? Which means all women are.
>
> 2) You're not a troll. And mean every word of it.
>
> In the case of #2, I have a couple of questions to ask and some comments to
> make, because I see posts like this every so often, and get really tired of
> it. So I'm going do the same thing that YOU are doing... hold YOU
> responsible not only for your own words, but the words of all the other
> posters who spew the same kind of hatred. Just like you are holding ME and
> every woman in these 3 groups responsible for the women who rejected you.
>
> Why are you here in groups with so many women? What do you possibly hope
> to gain? APPROVAL for and ACCEPTANCE of your hatred of us???? That would
> be utterly STUPID to expect. As if I'm going to open my heart to someone
> who hates me without ever knowing anything about me. Yeah RIGHT. pshhhht.
> You may think I'm stupid, but I'm not THAT stupid.
>
> Ever consider that perhaps your anger and bitterness is all over your face
> and body language and leaks out in your day-to-day words and actions and
> that it might be driving women away in droves?
>
> Ever consider that maybe women are smart enough to sense when someone is
> going to be an emotional burden on them and, again, run away in droves?
>
> Ever consider that maybe WE aren't responsible for making YOU happy? We
> are responsble for making our own selves happy and we have to do what we
> THINK will get us there, such as dating or marrying someone else. And
> even making mistakes in doing so. Regardless of whether it suits YOUR
> plans or not. NO ONE is going to take care of me and my needs. And I am
> not going to take care of anyone else's. I want a whole person who won't
> be a burden on me. Someone who is equally capable of his own self-care.
> It's hard enough just to take care of myself and any future children. I
> want an emotional EQUAL who can help me care for children, not someone who
> wants to be another emotional child.
>
> Ever consider that maybe *everyone* in this world has do to a song and
> dance to get noticed? Why do you think that YOU are exempt from making all
> the appropriate mating dance maneuvers? Why do you think that you can do a
> half-assed job of it and be successful when the rest of us can't get away
> with that either? Why do you think you are more special than us?
>
> Ever consider that women who aren't "honest" in the first place are at
> least paying enough attention to YOUR ego to try to be nice? Pardon us for
> TRYING not to hurt you needlessly, and pardon us for assuming that *you*
> are smart enough to read between the lines. Geez.
>
> On the other hand, maybe they aren't trying to be nice. Maybe they are
> trying to protect themselves from your anger. Sounds like a smart thing to
> do, to me. Self-preservation. Maybe women aren't so stupid after all.
>
> Do you really think I'm going list out all my attributes that might or
> might not deny your characterizaton of me? Defend myself? Debate with you
> or say "awww, I'm so sorry. Let me fix it. Let me list all the wonderful
> things about women that you're forgotten." Yeah, right.... and leave
> myself open to having you knock it down bit by bit, or use it to flail me
> and other women with?
>
> You ooze hatred. If I came in contact with you and sensed it, I'd run away
> as fast as I could.
>
> There. Is that honest enough for you? Are you going to respect that? Or
> are you going to deny every word I've said? I guess we'll see.
>
> Then again, if you're a troll, there probably won't be any reply at all.
>
> Either way, I don't expect you to hear a single word of this. Because in
> MY experience, men like YOU don't want to hear anything except agreement of
> your hate. Kind of an irrational thing for you to expect from women, don't
> you think?
>
motoyen
any he usually faults it to the fact that he is not rich and well built. I have
wondered if these are really the qualities that woman look for. In my experience it
doesn't seem to be the case. I own three business and I am not yet 30, so needless to
say I do all right. I don't flash my money around. I wear conservative clothes, I
drive a sport utility, not a sports car. I have found that woman get intimidated when
they find out how much I make. It seems to me that your attitude plays a larger role in
attracting woman that your wallet. I seem to meet the same number of woman now and when
I was working for minimum wage. My last girlfriend dumped me for a guy that stocks
shelves at Office Max. Financially I make more in a week than he'll make all year, but
he certainly had something I didn't.
clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Why shouldn't I hate women?
>
> Hey, I started out honest and innocent, giving everyone the benefit
> of the doubt, but women have made it clear to me that *they* don't want
> anything to do with me. When I was young, I mistakenly thought that women
> were rational, and if I was kind and respectful, I would be respected in
> return. What did it get me? Lots of male friends, yet women who were too
> repulsed by me to even make eye contact.
>
> In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
> want to go out and do something sometime.... Each one has told me no in some
> way or another. Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
> (they don't like my dietary preferences, or hobbies, found new mystery men
> that they would rather be with, have decided that they just would rather be
> single -yeah right-, etc. No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
> real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
> money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
>
> I've joined clubs, put out personal adds, hung out at social events, and with
> no result. Typically, women try hard not even to make eye contact with me....
> Often I even have a pertinent reason to speak with a woman ("hey, you dropped
> your wallet") and she will try to ignore me,. act like I'm trying to 'hit on'
> her.
>
> What annoys me.... women who aren't interested in me (pretty much all
> of them) who are too say so. They will 'put up' with you for 2, say 3 dates
> then suddenly tell you that they don't want to see you again, that they were
> just being 'nice' all along. Sometimes they even get nasty for no good
> reason, and almost always they try to turn it around and blame you for
> something or another. (and don't tell me that I am pestering them by calling
> too often.... I have a very strict 'only call after you have been called'
> rule that I enforce at all times). YOU COULD SAVE ME A WHOLE LOT OF TIME AND
> MONEY BY BEING HONEST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
>
> But I'm sure that the women who are reading this simply don't care,
> because, they are heartless. They have no emotions except for the desire to
> take men's money, and a fury at how they are being 'oppressed' by males.
> It's fashionable to hate men these days, but the way I see it, the women do
> much more to be angry at. In fact, most men I know are the friendly quiet
> type who really respect others, with a small group of deviants causing all of
> the trouble, wheras most women I know are cruel and selfish, are used to
> being treated like the 'princess', and yes, the older I get, the more I
> realize that many women are slightly lazy and not so bright. I held back on
> forming the last opinion, but how else would you explain the complete lack of
> women in academic areas such as the hard sciences at a time when female
> affirmative action is at ludicrous levels? (of course I know some brilliant
> and kind women, but they all fall at about the 1% level, and then are at such
> demand anyway that they suffer from super-princessites).
>
> Proud misogynist
> Clambers
Chris D
> And people think I'm a whiner.... Look, I haven't the slightest idea
>why I can't get a date, but I can already see a few why you can't. First of
>all, you do really whine too much. Second, apparently from your own words,
>you know what is wrong with yourself, yet instead of trying to fix it, you
>try to act like you are someone else.
If you go back and look at what I said was wrong with me, you'll see that
virtually everything I mentioned is genetic and cannot be changed (or if not
genetic, then a quality which virtually nobody can change unless they get deep
into their soul, chi, and other Eastern healing arts, and yes, I've tried that
too, and I have no knack for "finding my spirit" or "finding my energy" or
whatever it is you need to find).
> And don't give me this poor sob story of not being able to find a
>job. Any self proclaimed 'exceptional computer programmer' on the job market
>in probably one of the best economic times in the history of our country, at
>a time where the software industry is growing like mad could only remain
>jobless so long if he were trying. When is the last time you sent out a
>batch of applications?
Last Friday actually. Sent out 14 resumes to 14 different companies. I plan to
make followup calls to the ones that gave phone numbers in JobTrak, so those
companies won't easily be able to shut me out or avoid a response.
> I'd be thrilled to know what I was doing wrong so that I could go and fix it.
There are many posts here telling you what the fuck is wrong.
chris
Chris D
>In article <6q2793$c1h$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Why shouldn't I hate women?
>
>The problem with that is that it's pointless, and that it'll get you nowhere.
>
>Reasess. Find out what you're doing wrong, and do something different. Get
>advice from other people, and change. It does sound like you're bitter, and
>that's not going to do you much good vis-a-vis women. If I were in your
>position, I'd get books on the subject, and check with friends, male and
>female and find out what I could do differently.
I've tried books. Self-help books on dating or getting to know a woman are the
most utterly useless trash I've ever seen (at least the two most popular books
I've seen, "Men from Mars Women from Venus" sort of crap and "How to Flirt" or
something of that nature.) I've checked with friends before and usually they
have no answer for me. The few answers they make up are admittedly not workable
for me because it clashes with my personality. The few times I've actually
tried to follow someone's advice (which always involved approaching and saying
something), I felt so uncomfortable doing it that it was so obvious to the woman
I was uncomfortable (since I can't act) that she became very nervous and just
wanted to get away from me.
chris
Jane
I'm dating a guy who is a School Bus Driver making 13.50 and hour
and is going to college.
I'm 32 and yes I am a white collar worker, making a decent
living. I have no problem dating a guy who doesn't have a lot of
money but...
I expect him to be a hard worker, and to contribute to the
relationship as much as I do.
Relationships have nothing to do with how financially you are set
it all has to do with how hard you want to work at it.
Relationship, marriages, etc are a job and you have to be willing
to work at it everyday to make it work.
I wouldn't give up Kevin for a Rich guy. I've had opportunities
to date wealthy guys but I love Kevin for who he is not how much
he's worth.
Jane
motoyen wrote in message <35C5353C...@direct.ca>...
>I have noticed that whenever some guy comes on a ng complaining
that he isn't getting
>any he usually faults it to the fact that he is not rich and
well built. I have
>wondered if these are really the qualities that woman look for.
In my experience it
>doesn't seem to be the case. I own three business and I am not
yet 30, so needless to
>say I do all right. I don't flash my money around. I wear
conservative clothes, I
>drive a sport utility, not a sports car. I have found that
woman get intimidated when
>they find out how much I make. It seems to me that your
attitude plays a larger role in
>attracting woman that your wallet. I seem to meet the same
number of woman now and when
>I was working for minimum wage. My last girlfriend dumped me
for a guy that stocks
>shelves at Office Max. Financially I make more in a week than
he'll make all year, but
>he certainly had something I didn't.
>clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Why shouldn't I hate women?
>>
clam...@hotmail.com
god...@kira.peak.org (Marg Petersen) wrote:
> SOME women, please. Not ALL women are mercenary individuals, just
> like not ALL men are scumbags. Okay? Now, having said that, what
> can you do? Well, not much really. As my saintly grandma used
> to tell me; "somewhere in this old world, there IS someone for you.
> For every sock, there is a shoe. Just keep looking." And in my
> *younger* days, I felt much like you (although without the hatred
> of men that you seem to have for women). I merely believed that
> NO ONE would ever be interested in ME. How wrong I was! Somehow,
> some way (I'm not certain just how even today), I finally FOUND
> my soulmate.
The problem is, when a woman can't find a date, 9 out of 10 times that means
that she is rejecting all the men who are interested in her, wheras when a man
can't find a date, it is because women simply don't like him.
> Really and truly. And how did I go about it? Well,
> one thing I know is that I started doing things that interested ME,
> not others, or to impress others, but things I actually liked to
> do and wanted to do. I figured that even IF no one was going to
> be interested in me at the least I would be doing something *I*
> found enjoyable. And of course (as you most probably have heard
> from others, or maybe not), WHEN I became interested in doing
> things and actually having something that made ME interesting,
> well the men just started coming out of the woodwork! I suddenly
> found myself *almost* (:-) ) overwhelmed. Got to pick and choose,
> I did and I picked a winner. 35 years and going strong.
I do pleanty of things that interest me.... science, computers, long
hikes, etc. The problem is, women are almost never interested in what I am
interested in. The advice you gave me has already worked wonders for me,
that is, in making male friends. This is in fact why I am so down on female
intellegence, because I know the sad truth, that men are bending over
backwards to involve women in these areas, and the women aren't capible
and/or interested enough in them. The 1-2% of women that are interested
and/or capible are so overswamped by the men....
By the way, I've tried to devolop more co-ed interests, but for
various reasons it doesn't seem to work. In the first place, I find more
often than not, even in things that should seemingly involve many women turn
out to still be male dominated, and secondly, the things that turn out to
really interest women really turn me off (hollistic energy wave healing
seminars, etc.).
clam...@hotmail.com
fmg...@pitt.edu (Filip M. Gieszczykiewicz) wrote:
> In Article <6q2k8q$ai4$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>, through puissant locution,
"Matt Helm" <matt...@gte.net> soliloquized:
> >Stop trying to hard. be yourself. all of the other cliches.
>
> LOL! Also the hardest of all advice... because to _be_ yourself
> you actually have to _be_ first... and while we're all given the
> tools to _get to know_ ourselves, few take the effort... and
> learn who they are... and then learn how grand life is... and
> as soon as they stop _needing_ others to _give_ them happiness,
> because they now internally generate it through knowledge of
> themselves - trust me, it works (and I'm not a lawyer :-) -
> when they _live_... they begin to attract others to their
> warmth... it's all natural after the first few baby steps..
> and soon enough you're running 100m sprints and marathons
> and setting new personal-bests... which, you also learn, are
> so much more rewarding than some ditzy races with silly,
> arbitrary prizes that mean absolutely nothing... once you
> _are_, _you_ are the reason why you _are_... so you, we
> come full circle, _be ourselves_ because that's what we then
> are. Except it's a lot simpler than I make it sound :-)
Oh, please. I'm being myself right now, ya think it is going to get
me alot of dates?
clam...@hotmail.com
> Good advice, though it is simpler than it sounds. What if the true "you" is a
> person who is very unattractive to women? That is my case, and the only
> chance
> I'll ever have a getting a temporary date is to put on a good act and make
> myself seem much different from who I really am. And even then I know that
> would only work for a short time because I at least can't hide the "true me"
> for
> very long. I'm a very poor actor. (That's another negative quality I have.
> It's also partly why I've been jobless for 7 months and counting now, despite
> my
> exceptional computer programming skills and my BS degree in Computer Science.)
And people think I'm a whiner.... Look, I haven't the slightest idea
why I can't get a date, but I can already see a few why you can't. First of
all, you do really whine too much. Second, apparently from your own words,
you know what is wrong with yourself, yet instead of trying to fix it, you
try to act like you are someone else.
And don't give me this poor sob story of not being able to find a
job. Any self proclaimed 'exceptional computer programmer' on the job market
in probably one of the best economic times in the history of our country, at
a time where the software industry is growing like mad could only remain
jobless so long if he were trying. When is the last time you sent out a
batch of applications?
I'd be thrilled to know what I was doing wrong so that I could go and fix it.
Clambers
clam...@hotmail.com
> like.
They reject my values and way of life. They have made it clear that they see
nothing of worth in me. I have a right to be annoyed. So if you are black
(perhaps you are) you shouldn't hate the KKK for how they feel about you?
> Honesty and innocence aren't very sexually attractive traits in a man
My point exactly.... how can I respect a group who puts no value on honesty.
> I don't know what the problem is. Maybe you seem too demanding in a
> particular way, or you have too strict a set of rules or something that might
> annoy women.
> Maybe you seem resentful of women. I don't know. There are lots of
> possibilities. If I met you in person I might be able to get an idea of what,
> if anything, they might find unacceptable in you.
This is exactly wht I am trying to figure out.
> I've only gone out with one
> female in my entire life, and she soon told me that she didn't really like me
> either, and was just being nice to me. She was at first willing to remain
> friends, but then backed out on that too.
This is what I hate.... when they are too spineless to be straightforward in
the first place, but instead wait until you are have developed an emotional
attachment. What is this 'being nice' garbage? Being 'nice' would be being
honest. No, she was really just guttless, and slightly cruel in fact.
> That's a lot of women. Maybe you could pick out women more carefully.
I picks and chooses very carefully.... From personal adds and emails.
> > I've joined clubs,
>
> Clubs generally are not good places to meet the kind of women you seem to be
> looking for. Mostly the social butterfly, shallow women attend those clubs.
> They more than others are going to look for the cool, buff jock type of
> person.
> Universities would tend to have the type of women you're looking for, though
> universities don't lend themselves to being easy places to meet women. I met
> virtually none my entire 4.5 years at Cal Poly Pomona, where I got my degree
> in Computer Science.
I find clubs a bad place to meet women also, but for different
reasons. Clubs are usually only attended by men trying to meet women, and
very few women.
> >put out personal adds,
>
> Personal ads are futile if you're not tall and/or don't have a lot of money.
> In
> fact, the L.A. Times wouldn't even publish my ad the one time I tried because
> it
> stated my low height, and that I liked computers. The airheaded woman who
> censored these ads said it made me look too geeky and made me look too much
> like
> a virgin. So she changed the ad completely to make me look much more
> desirable
> (including adding lies) and I never got any responses anyway. Not only that,
> but generally only older men are sought out by the women who look for dates in
> the personal ads. In the "women seeking men" ads, there was not a single ad I
> could find that included an age range under 25. And there were hundreds of
> ads.
See, this is where I feel we are from different planets.... In the
first place, there are plenty of pre-25 and even more pre-30 female adds.
Now, it is true that most of them won't acknowledge a response, and those
that do rarely keep any contact, but they exist.
The real thing that bugs me with you here is how you allowed a PA to go out
with lies. This is the reason that women don't want to give PAs the time of
day, liars like you (and don't tell me that it was all the womans fault, you
played a role also. What, does she have controll of all the personals in the
world).
You really are a wierdo.
> That happened to me the one time I ever went out with anybody. It sucks, but
> you can't really blame them for it. They can't help it if they're not
> attracted to a particular person any more than we men can't help it.
> It could be a defense they put on to try to mask the fact that you don't turn
> them on.
You can't blame someone for LYING???? (again, the different planets thing).
If you repeatedly asked a woman you weren't interested in out on dates then
suddenly called her a whore and told her not to contact you again, wouldn't
you be to blame.
Why are you excusing bad behavior?
> That's an extreme generalization, and offensive to women.
Why is stating my opinion about other people's bad behavior
offensive. Since when did noting bad behavior become more offensive than the
bad behavior itself? It is my opinion that 90% of women are this way. If
you dissagree with this, then tell me so (including your reasons), but don't
just try to censor me.
> As for intelligence, that's more important. When you say so bright, you
> probably mean she tends not to talk about technical things very much, or
> understand technical things very much.
When I say bright, I am referring to the lack of women in the hard sciences.
> And I don't really have any redeeming qualities that any intelligent woman
> would like. I don't even have a good philosophical mind. I can't draw worth
> shit. I
> can't write poetry worth shit. I can't speak eloquently in person worth shit.
> I can't learn to
> play an instrument because I'm not coordinated enough. I guess I can't sing
> very well though *I* think I can sing okay, everybody else thinks my singing
> is pretty bad, or at best average. I make women too uncomfortable because I'm
> often tense around them, and can't think of things to say, or rather
Once again I can see some of your problems.... That you even think
that some of this stuff is important shows how socially incompetant you can
be. What, do you think that some woman in the 90s is going to be swept off
her feet and sleep with you because you recite some poem or play the violin
outside of her window? Or can quote from historical philisophical passages by
heart?
> And, well, I'm short.
Well, from what I know, this one is a true problem, except for real short
women.
> Wow, I have enough truly major unchangeable undesirable qualities to fit 13
> full-length lines. And I probably have many more undesirable qualities I'm
> not thinking about (and don't really want to think about).
The main thing that annoyes me about you is that you know what is wrong with
you yet make no attempt to try to fix any of it, in fact are trying to ignore
that the problems exist. I am cluless about what is wrong with me, and would
really like to know so I could try to fix it.
clam...@hotmail.com
clam...@hotmail.com soliloquized:
> >In article <35c4aa1f....@news.mindspring.com>,
> >Perhaps 1% of men are evil enough to rape a woman, the other 99% are
> >descent people. On the other hand, perhaps 90% of women act in the way that
> >I described in my original post (with the other 10% in such demand that they
> >can pick and choose as they please, aka the princess syndrome).
>
> is the sky over yonder?
Oh, and I suppose you come from the camp that believes 90% of men are rapists
and 1% of women like to date rich guys then?
clam...@hotmail.com
"Kim Johnson" <kim...@sprynet.com> wrote:
> Could you be trying to ask women out that are "above your station" so to
> speak? I don't expect to go out with Brad Pitt, but I do expect a man that
> I date to have the basic personality and philisophical leanings I do. I
> don't date males, only men. I don't date fundies, repubs, frenzied FR's, of
> men that I work with. I don't date men that are older than me(usually too
> controlling--broke that "rule" last year and he was the stereotypical older
> male). I don't date males that start a conversation with, "You women are
> all the same...." or some such drivel.....or "Hi, my name is ________, lets
> go out".
I have but two criteria in asking out a woman.... That she be
mentally stable and somewhat intelligent. Never cared much for looks,
although there is some lower 5% of the population that I would rule out
(grosely obese, six arms, etc.) Lets just say that I would easily fall
within my own criteria, so I doubt I am too picky.
> Sounds like that you probably act desparate.....can't stand that in either
> gender.
Describe to me what 'acting too desparate' means. If you have
examples, feel free to include them. I really don't think I act too
desparate, but somehow people on the internet always go to this hypothesis
whenever the topic is brought up. I try hard to institute such things as my
'only call once you have been called rule' (except the first call of course).
> Could be that the first couple of dates, you act nice....then the
> whiner/complainer/control freak/whatever comes out in you and she runs to
> save her life.
Probably, as every woman who has ever dated me has dumped my butt,
some even in a hatefull fashion. (I used to get many more dates than I have
in the last few years).
> Yep---you sound just like the type of male I'd give up a night to spend
> with....actually I'd rather be cleaning the toilet....better company than
> your type. Also, if you are running into the same brick wall, doesn't it
> make a bit of sense for you to see that part of it is you?
Believe me I try to learn.... pretty hard to crack this nut though,
as if I'm doing something wrong I don't know about it, and noone seems to be
stepping up to tell me what that might be.
> I've dated some
> real jerks and when I went back and contemplated the problem...I had to
> learn what I did wrong; I was worth a lot more than they could ever amount
> to or its just the old, "can't have two suns in a relationship......somebody
> has to play moon" and I shine too much. Have you ever tried therapy...
Did it, didn't get me anywhere. The first woman was this 'caring and
compasionate' type who just kept telling me how great I was, hence never
really let me know what I might be doing wrong and help fix it. The second
guy was into some sort of questions only therapy.... Everything I would say
he would turn around into a question and we'd get nowhere. Got tired of it
and stopped going.
> lot
> of misplaced anger in you post. If all a woman did was go out with you for
> a couple of dates and then tried to let you down easy....I wish my life had
> been that easy. Go ahead hate women....none of us will probably lose too
> much sleep.
No, I'm annoyed because many many women have blown me off.... It's
kind of like the whole female population has rejected me as a desirable human
being, hence I think I have a right to be annoyed. Wouldn't you be annoyed
at a group who rejected you as a desirable person? (Don't even try to tell
me 'no' on this one).
> >Proud misogynist
> >Clambers
> and he's still single and hating every minute of it
Duh, you seep to think that was a clever insult, wheras it is nothing
more than what I wrote repeatedly in my post.
Chris D
>I am SICK and tired of having to heal guys because some woman has fucked them
>up. I am tired of being the mender. Why can't they like me? Don't they see
>that I am not her? I brought a boy home the other night. He cried because it
>had been so long since someone held him and looked into those beautiful blue
>eyes.
Well, maybe it's because you're the only female that's willing to be with those
type of guys (like me). I guess that's why they're all telling you how grateful
they are that you'll be with them. If I'd met you in person, I might have been
in danger of doing something like that myself, but now I realize that you're
tired of it, it's been done before, and now I would know not to act so grateful
(or is it spelled greatful?) I guess I can imagine how disconcerting it would
be to be treated like you were the savior or something.
>I don't see how she could be a vegetarian and eat him alive.
???
>Chris, women do not always love innocent men. I love the dangerous ones and
>the skinny ones and the fat ones and the safe ones. It isn't all this or
>that. It is a combination of things.
Yeah, that's true. In fact, that's probably the ultimate criteria women go by.
Combination of everything. That's probably my biggest weakness of all, since I
have so many weaknesses and so few strengths. My overall personal score sucks.
I imagine that's not what you meant though. Every person is different and has
different tastes. Maybe one somewhere would be willing to be with me. Problem
is, I seem to have the right combination of weaknesses and non-strengths that
would logically and non-logically (emotionally, whatever) fail to meet the
standards of every single woman on the face of the earth, including those who
have no standards at all. But I could be wrong and because of that I will
continue to hope.
chris
Chris D
There's a lot of possibilities that can arise between our conversations, simply
because I see a lot of underlying similarities between us. Though the way we
express those similarities is completely different (now if anybody knows what I
just said here, please tell me because I'm really clueless myself! ;)
clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>In article <35c4c91f...@news.mindspring.com>,
> cdu...@mindspring.com wrote:
>> clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >Why shouldn't I hate women?
>> Because they can't help who they like, anymore than us guys can help who we
>> like.
>
> They reject my values and way of life. They have made it clear that they see
>nothing of worth in me. I have a right to be annoyed. So if you are black
>(perhaps you are) you shouldn't hate the KKK for how they feel about you?
Interesting point. I can't come up with a counter-argument for that. Can
anyone else? I guess that means I should hate women. Do unto others as they do
unto you. That also means that blacks should hate KKK right back, and do
everything to them that the KKK does to blacks. An eye for an eye.
Hmmm... actually, I never said you didn't have a right to be annoyed. In fact,
I never said you didn't have a right to hate them. If you do hate them, it's
understandable, going what you've gone through, and it's understandable
considering the mindset you are in. I guess I just handle it differently. I
don't hate women (or if I do I don't admit it even to myself) simply because
hating women won't get me anywhere. Of course, you could make the argument that
nothing will get me anywhere. But I guess it shows I haven't quite given up yet
if I'm unwilling to hate women. I'm glad I realized that. Well, actually,
there are other reasons not to hate women. I generally don't like to hate
anybody even if there's no apparent consequence for hating anybody. There are
internal consequences to hating that I don't know how to describe, but they're
there.
>
>> Honesty and innocence aren't very sexually attractive traits in a man
>
> My point exactly.... how can I respect a group who puts no value on honesty.
Then disrespect the whole f*cken human race because that's the way the whole
human race is (with a few rare exceptions like you and perhaps me). Actually,
honesty isn't as much the issue as is trust. You can be honest all you want but
if people don't trust you you won't get anywhere. And complete uncensored
honesty can generate distrust because the person will think you are trying to
hurt them in some way. It's complicated and I could go on and on.
I guess most people put high value on honesty, they just may not know what is
honest from others, and cannot know if the other is truly honest. It's a
complex human thing.
>> I don't know what the problem is. Maybe you seem too demanding in a
>> particular way, or you have too strict a set of rules or something that might
>> annoy women.
>> Maybe you seem resentful of women. I don't know. There are lots of
>> possibilities. If I met you in person I might be able to get an idea of what,
>> if anything, they might find unacceptable in you.
>
> This is exactly wht I am trying to figure out.
In a way, I am too. You're probably right about most of the weaknesses I
stated. Most of them don't matter in themselves. I feel like even I turned all
the weaknesses I mentioned into strengths, still no female would like me
(well... hmmm... more would certainly give me a chance and then find out
possibly that they like me.)
>> I've only gone out with one
>> female in my entire life, and she soon told me that she didn't really like me
>> either, and was just being nice to me. She was at first willing to remain
>> friends, but then backed out on that too.
>
> This is what I hate.... when they are too spineless to be straightforward in
>the first place, but instead wait until you are have developed an emotional
>attachment. What is this 'being nice' garbage? Being 'nice' would be being
>honest. No, she was really just guttless, and slightly cruel in fact.
She felt that way herself, and went through some hard times because she saw
herself the same way you noted in your last sentence. But this was in
retrospect. At the time, she simply didn't know whether she wanted a
relationship with me or not, and I genuinely believe that. I think she was
looking for a certain feeling to come to her about me and when she realized that
feeling wasn't going to materialize, she decided to call it off. But once she
decided she was pretty straightforward in telling me. And she said it would
have been even worse if she'd waited even longer, and she said she was sorry she
had to hurt me but by that point there was no possible way to avoid it (and btw,
it was only 4 weeks from the time I first met her when she broke it to me).
It's just an unfortunate circumstance that's impossible to avoid, and no man or
woman who has any hopes, dreams, and patience can do anything about it.
>> That's a lot of women. Maybe you could pick out women more carefully.
>
> I picks and chooses very carefully.... From personal adds and emails.
Ok, I'll take your word for it. It's just that I personally probably couldn't
*find* 20 in one year that I would think I'd like and have a remote chance with.
> I find clubs a bad place to meet women also, but for different
>reasons. Clubs are usually only attended by men trying to meet women, and
>very few women.
That's true too.
>> >put out personal adds,
>>
>> Personal ads are futile if you're not tall and/or don't have a lot of money.
>> In
>> fact, the L.A. Times wouldn't even publish my ad the one time I tried because
>> it
>> stated my low height, and that I liked computers. The airheaded woman who
>> censored these ads said it made me look too geeky and made me look too much
>> like
>> a virgin. So she changed the ad completely to make me look much more
>> desirable
>> (including adding lies) and I never got any responses anyway. Not only that,
>> but generally only older men are sought out by the women who look for dates in
>> the personal ads. In the "women seeking men" ads, there was not a single ad I
>> could find that included an age range under 25. And there were hundreds of
>> ads.
>
> See, this is where I feel we are from different planets.... In the
>first place, there are plenty of pre-25 and even more pre-30 female adds.
>Now, it is true that most of them won't acknowledge a response, and those
>that do rarely keep any contact, but they exist.
Yes, but those pre-25 year olds are *always* looking for a man older than 25,
and often as old as 50 for crying out loud. I guess about one in ten don't make
a preference for any age. But I never saw one that gave an age range that
included anybody under 25. (and rarely even under 35) I suppose that's not an
issue though because eventually I'll be old myself.
> The real thing that bugs me with you here is how you allowed a PA to go out
>with lies. This is the reason that women don't want to give PAs the time of
>day, liars like you (and don't tell me that it was all the womans fault, you
>played a role also. What, does she have controll of all the personals in the
>world).
Believe it or not, she made all the suggestions on how I should change it, and
feeling intimidated and not really caring much, I just went along with whatever
she said. "Uh huh. Okay. I guess" was basically all I said.
> You really are a wierdo.
Yeah, I'm a weirdo. You are too. Ain't it a small world? <g>
>> That happened to me the one time I ever went out with anybody. It sucks, but
>> you can't really blame them for it. They can't help it if they're not
>> attracted to a particular person any more than we men can't help it.
>> It could be a defense they put on to try to mask the fact that you don't turn
>> them on.
>
> You can't blame someone for LYING???? (again, the different planets thing).
>If you repeatedly asked a woman you weren't interested in out on dates then
>suddenly called her a whore and told her not to contact you again, wouldn't
>you be to blame.
Yes, you can blame someone for lying, but the fact that they try to hide the lie
indicates that they don't want to hurt you meaning that they care about you. It
may not be the most intelligent decision to make ("white lying" that is) but it
has good pragmatic value sometimes.
> Why are you excusing bad behavior?
See above.
>
>> That's an extreme generalization, and offensive to women.
>
> Why is stating my opinion about other people's bad behavior
>offensive. Since when did noting bad behavior become more offensive than the
>bad behavior itself? It is my opinion that 90% of women are this way. If
>you dissagree with this, then tell me so (including your reasons), but don't
>just try to censor me.
My mind is starting to get tired. I'd love to continue. But I'm lazy (and not
so bright (and I'm male!!)) I think I'll just end it here. I'm not like some
who can make a 400 line followup post. I just get too tired.
>> As for intelligence, that's more important. When you say so bright, you
>> probably mean she tends not to talk about technical things very much, or
>> understand technical things very much.
>
> When I say bright, I am referring to the lack of women in the hard sciences.
I sort of covered this in another post.
>> And I don't really have any redeeming qualities that any intelligent woman
>> would like. I don't even have a good philosophical mind. I can't draw worth
>> shit. I
>> can't write poetry worth shit. I can't speak eloquently in person worth shit.
>> I can't learn to
>> play an instrument because I'm not coordinated enough. I guess I can't sing
>> very well though *I* think I can sing okay, everybody else thinks my singing
>> is pretty bad, or at best average. I make women too uncomfortable because I'm
>> often tense around them, and can't think of things to say, or rather
>
> Once again I can see some of your problems.... That you even think
>that some of this stuff is important shows how socially incompetant you can
>be.
Like I said near the beginning, you're probably right.
>What, do you think that some woman in the 90s is going to be swept off
>her feet and sleep with you because you recite some poem or play the violin
>outside of her window? Or can quote from historical philisophical passages by
>heart?
There are a fair number of intelligent women like that. (I can refer you to the
webpage of a female who states she wants those things almost word for word, but
Nar indicated once that she doesn't want any asders knowing her true identity.)
>> And, well, I'm short.
>
> Well, from what I know, this one is a true problem, except for real short
>women.
And even the real short women seem to like the utmost tallest men.
>> Wow, I have enough truly major unchangeable undesirable qualities to fit 13
>> full-length lines. And I probably have many more undesirable qualities I'm
>> not thinking about (and don't really want to think about).
>
> The main thing that annoyes me about you is that you know what is wrong with
>you yet make no attempt to try to fix any of it, in fact are trying to ignore
>that the problems exist.
But you said yourself those problems are unimportant anyway. Why try to fix
them? I only stated the problems I have that are unfixable because I've pretty
well fixed all the other problems with myself. The ones that are left are
pretty unfixable for most human beings. That's why they're problems for me. I
have tried to fix many of them before, without any success.
>I am cluless about what is wrong with me, and would
>really like to know so I could try to fix it.
I am basically clueless too because I've never met you in person. Even if I
did, I might "know" that women wouldn't be attracted to you but I wouldn't be
able to state why because I couldn't understand the reasons even if I know they
are there. That's simply a lack of ability to understand on my part (and
perhaps a lack of ability for nearly all humans to understand.) I feel that is
pretty much the case with me.
chris
panatraeu
>In article <35c4f565...@news.mindspring.com>,
> zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
>> On Sun, 02 Aug 1998 20:58:41 GMT, clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >In article <35c4aa1f....@news.mindspring.com>,
>> > zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
>> >> hey most of the men i have met have raped me.
>> >> does that mean all men are rapists?
>> > Oh, please.... This is the kind of nonsense I was referring to. Most
>> > of the men you have met have not raped you.
>>
>> how the hell would you know ?
>>
>> >The most unlucky person in the world has
>> >been raped maybe three times, you probably know close to 1000 men.
>>
>> oh yeah right! my father my brother and two friends, thats 1000 all
>> right!
>
> Oh, I see! You are one of these closet people who only gets to
>travel outside on birthdays and holiday and hence you have only ever met for
>men in your whole life. And yes, they all raped you.
>
thats right MR. I CANT GET LAID! WAHHHHHHHHHHHH
, i hang out in a depression group cus im ohhhh so social!!! let me
run out and meet a guy like you!
> Don't fly here!
dont crosspost, and i wouldnt be here,
>
> Ya know If you were in fact raped, I'd even feel bad for you, except
>that you are doing something pretty evil right now yourself. You are using
bullshit, you started it and im not slandering anyone except most of
the men who have hurt me.
and they deserve it. i could name names, then i would be slandering.
dont you know the laws, or do you just spout diareah off at the mouth
when ever you want?
>it to slander others, where by others I am referring to 'men'. Whatever evil
>anyone has suffered gives them no right to do evil themselves. Perhaps I
>could turn it around and tell you that it's OK what your father and brother
>did, because, after all, they had tough childhoods themselves. Perhaps your
>father was raped by someone himself when he was young, so I guess it is OK
>that he did evil things to you? Of course not! And it is definitely not OK
>that you are doing evil to others right now!
your projecting.
>
>> > Unless you
>> >are a plump hairy butt who likes to hang out in men's prison showers you have
>> >not been raped 1000 times.
>>
>> i have been raped at least 25 times.
>
> One rape makes a victim.... 25 rapes make a participant.
>
you are perpetrator just for saying that. i was a child. i was a
teenager, it was never my fault -saying NO STOP is in no way
participating. but what would you know?
> By the way, how do you define rape?
>
WHEN I SAY STOP NO STOP NO YOUR HUTING ME, IT IS RAPE.
is that clear enough for you?
>> > Perhaps 1% of men are evil enough to rape a woman, the other 99% are
>> >descent people.
>>
>> bullshit more like 10% are evil enough, but were not statitions are
>> we?
>
> This is another example of what I would consider vicious slander.
>You have just caused every woman reading this to look at every man she meets
>as a 10% rapist.... If you can name one source (reasonable and reliable)
>that 10% of men perform rapes, then I will personally apologize to you. But
>you know what. I ain't gonna have to apologize.
you are twisting my words around to suit your needs.
>
>> > On the other hand, perhaps 90% of women act in the way that
>> >I described in my original post (with the other 10% in such demand that they
>> >can pick and choose as they please, aka the princess syndrome).
>>
>> thats right, and i will continue to pick and choose cus i *am* a
>> princess.
>
> Oh, aren't you the helpless victim.
NOPE, IM NOT A VICTIM I AM A SURVIVOR , thats right.
dont forget, your the one that came around whinning POOR ME I CANT GET
LAID!!!!!!!!!!
>
>> >PS- If you have been raped three times I seriously suggest you reevaluate the
>> >places you hang out at.
>> oh yeah,. so its my fault?
>> how bout the first 20 or so times before i was 10 years old, should i
>> have hung out elsewhere then too ?
>> i can see why no one wants to be around you.
>
> Yeah, and what about the other 5? I bet you haven't ever even turned
>one of the four supposed rapists in, have you?
yes i have and i have relatives sitting in jail right now and im
working on putting a psychiatrist in jail too for rape and some
hospital staff as well.
>f you truely have been raped
>by these men, it is your moral obligation to do so.
of course you dont believe it, your just like them.
my moral obligations are none of your concern anyway.
Ray Gordon
>My response, though longer, is stupider than any other male's response
in this
>thread. Another reason I need to just accept the fact that I will never
have a
>girlfriend or get into a relationship. i'm just too fucking stupid. i
don't
>relate well enough to women. i'm just too fucking stupid. and there's
nothing
>i can do about it. and that's on top of all the other negative
qualities i
>have. nobody responds to this because they can't think of anything to
say
>because it's all too clear to them that i'm right about myself. so they
>move on and concentrate on the men who may actually have a chance(s) of
>meeting women.
I'm glad you're so _certain_ of yourself. How does it feel to have
such a grip on [negative] self-confidence? Imagine the absolute
opposite feeling... that's your goal. :-)
<----The opposite of what he purports to feel is smug, pompous
arrogance...where you TALK about what a great world this is without ever
doing anything to leave any lasting improvements on it.
_____________________________________________________________________
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Ray Gordon
I'm dating a guy who is a School Bus Driver making 13.50 and hour
and is going to college.
<-----That puts him above-average in both the education and income
departments.
I'm 32 and yes I am a white collar worker, making a decent living. I
have no problem dating a guy who doesn't have a lot of money but...
<-----White-collar? Office-whore? Even some professional women are
still office whores. That you would even call $13.50 an hour "not a lot
of money" says a lot about your view of money.
I expect him to be a hard worker, and to contribute to the relationship
as much as I do.
<-------I should send one of my submissives in to seduce him. You'd
learn very quickly what he really values in a "relationship."
Relationships have nothing to do with how financially you are set it all
has to do with how hard you want to work at it. Relationship, marriages,
etc are a job and you have to be willing to work at it everyday to make
it work.
<----Unless you're a guy with cash and a body...in that case the woman is
just glad to have you.
I wouldn't give up Kevin for a Rich guy. I've had opportunities to date
wealthy guys but I love Kevin for who he is not how much he's worth.
<-----And what opportunities were those?
Here we have another woman without any real moral compass in her life,
who lives for herself, and judges others on the basis of how well they
live for themselves. Disgusting. Soon as her looks are gone, the men
will follow.
Ray Gordon
>
> The depressing thing is that my lack of money is only a
temporary
>thing (the muscles thing, well, I gots what I gots on that one)....
Someday
>I will probably make much more, however, this little dip into the world
of
>self imposed poverty has probably jaded me for good. Now that I realize
how
>badly women ignore less than rich men, even friendly honest caring
>not-bad-looking less than rich men, it is clear to me that women really
only
>want us for one reason.
SOME women, please. Not ALL women are mercenary individuals, just
like not ALL men are scumbags. Okay?
<-----Not really. Most women and men are selfish and mercenary to the
extent that their overall desirability allows them to be. Think of it
this way: 46 percent of this country is registered Republican, but over
64 percent of the money votes that way. It's a case of "one dollar one
vote" as opposed to "one man one vote." Women are INCREDIBLY mercenary.
But there is a way to circumvent this: see them for what they are and
don't allow them to get the best of you.
Now, having said that, what can you do? Well, not much really. As my
saintly grandma used to tell me; "somewhere in this old world, there IS
someone for you.
For every sock, there is a shoe. Just keep looking." And in my
*younger* days, I felt much like you (although without the hatred
of men that you seem to have for women). I merely believed that
NO ONE would ever be interested in ME. How wrong I was! Somehow,
some way (I'm not certain just how even today), I finally FOUND
my soulmate. Really and truly. And how did I go about it? Well,
one thing I know is that I started doing things that interested ME,
not others, or to impress others, but things I actually liked to
do and wanted to do. I figured that even IF no one was going to
be interested in me at the least I would be doing something *I*
found enjoyable. And of course (as you most probably have heard
from others, or maybe not), WHEN I became interested in doing
things and actually having something that made ME interesting,
well the men just started coming out of the woodwork! I suddenly
found myself *almost* (:-) ) overwhelmed. Got to pick and choose,
I did and I picked a winner. 35 years and going strong.
<---------We've never met this "winner." As a man who has found flaws in
"perfect" men in the space of 15 minutes or less (sometimes even causing
breakups), I'd like to hear about what makes this man so "perfect."
Ray Gordon
I have noticed that whenever some guy comes on a ng complaining that he
isn't getting any he usually faults it to the fact that he is not rich
and well built. I have
wondered if these are really the qualities that woman look for. In my
experience it
doesn't seem to be the case. I own three business and I am not yet 30,
so needless to say I do all right. I don't flash my money around. I
wear conservative clothes, I
drive a sport utility, not a sports car. I have found that woman get
intimidated when
they find out how much I make. It seems to me that your attitude plays a
larger role in
attracting woman that your wallet.
<---Easy for you to say: you have the wallet. And what of the attitude
of the TWO MILLION MEN who beat women? They get lovers. Attitude is a
CROCK OF SHIT. By the way, how much money have you spent on women in the
past year? I've taken women out from the noses of guys like you and boy
they sure lose their calm demeanor when that happens. You're aware that
any woman you date has the right to leave you for me without notice, and
that you aren't allowed to do anything about it, right?
I seem to meet the same number of woman now and when I was working for
minimum wage. My last girlfriend dumped me for a guy that stocks shelves
at Office Max. Financially I make more in a week than he'll make all
year, but he certainly had something I didn't.
<----I'm guessing you posted here to find golddiggers. By working into a
conversation that you have money under the pretext of giving advice, you
get to place a de-facto personals ad. Women do the same thing when they
mention that they "happen" to have a great body.
Ray Gordon
>In article <35c4aa1f....@news.mindspring.com>,
> zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
>> hey
>> most of the men i have met have raped me.
>> does that mean all men are rapists?
>
> Oh, please.... This is the kind of nonsense I was referring to.
Most of the
>men you have met have not raped you.
how the hell would you know ?
<-----Most men are not rapists.
>The most unlucky person in the world has
>been raped maybe three times, you probably know close to 1000 men.
oh yeah right! my father my brother and two friends, thats 1000 all
right!
<--------Did your mom know about the rapes? What did she see in your dad
exactly?
> Unless you
>are a plump hairy butt who likes to hang out in men's prison showers you
have
>not been raped 1000 times.
i have been raped at least 25 times.
<-------By 25 different men?
>
> Perhaps 1% of men are evil enough to rape a woman, the other 99%
are
>descent people.
bullshit more like 10% are evil enough, but were not statitions are we?
<----The correct word is "statisticians."
> On the other hand, perhaps 90% of women act in the way that
>I described in my original post (with the other 10% in such demand that
they
>can pick and choose as they please, aka the princess syndrome).
thats right, and i will continue to pick and choose cus i *am* a
princess.
<-----What makes you a princess? Your BODY? if not that, what?
>
>Clambers
>
>PS- If you have been raped three times I seriously suggest you
reevaluate the
>places you hang out at.
oh yeah,. so its my fault?
how bout the first 20 or so times before i was 10 years old, should i
have hung out elsewhere then too ?
i can see why no one wants to be around you.
<-----Can you see why two million women a year want to be around the men
who beat them to a pulp?
Ray Gordon
Could you be trying to ask women out that are "above your station" so to
speak?
<------And what makes a woman "above his station?" Her BODY?
Sheesh.....
I don't expect to go out with Brad Pitt, but I do expect a man that I
date to have the basic personality and philisophical leanings I do. I
don't date males, only men. I don't date fundies, repubs, frenzied FR's,
of men that I work with. I don't date men that are older than me(usually
too controlling--broke that "rule" last year and he was the stereotypical
older male). I don't date males that start a conversation with, "You
women are all the same...." or some such drivel.....or "Hi, my name is
________, lets
go out".
<---Stereotyping? Gee, let me do that: women who work in offices are
hired to look good and flirt with the men in power. That is the
"stereotypical" secretary/office whore. Women have no morals when it
comes to society, only to themselves and those they deem worthy.
>
> I've joined clubs, put out personal adds, hung out at social events,
and
with
>no result. Typically, women try hard not even to make eye contact with
me....
>Often I even have a pertinent reason to speak with a woman ("hey, you
dropped
>your wallet") and she will try to ignore me,. act like I'm trying to
'hit
on'
>her.
Sounds like that you probably act desparate.....can't stand that in
either
gender.
<------Starve the hungry!!! And when the "hungry" gets mad and goes out
and collects more food than you can eat in a lifetime, make sure you beg
for that food, telling the person to "let go" of their anger.
>
> What annoys me.... women who aren't interested in me (pretty much all
>of them) who are too say so. They will 'put up' with you for 2, say 3
dates
>then suddenly tell you that they don't want to see you again, that they
were
>just being 'nice' all along. Sometimes they even get nasty for no good
>reason, and almost always they try to turn it around and blame you for
>something or another. (and don't tell me that I am pestering them by
calling
>too often.... I have a very strict 'only call after you have been
called'
>rule that I enforce at all times). YOU COULD SAVE ME A WHOLE LOT OF
TIME
AND MONEY BY BEING HONEST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Could be that the first couple of dates, you act nice....then the
whiner/complainer/control freak/whatever comes out in you and she runs to
save her life.
<-----This would raise the question of why two million women a year do
NOT run to save their lives from the men who beat them to a bloody pulp.
That is because women are STUPID when it comes to romance.
Yep---you sound just like the type of male I'd give up a night to spend
with....actually I'd rather be cleaning the toilet....better company than
your type.
<--------The men women avoid raise the question of the men women do not
avoid. Women who can't pick a winner to save their lives have no
business calling any man a loser. The day women avoid the cheaters and
abusers they fall for so well is the day I MIGHT give their negative
opinions of a man a little credence.
Also, if you are running into the same brick wall, doesn't it make a bit
of sense for you to see that part of it is you?
<-----Say to a woman: "If you are getting beaten to a pulp by every man
you date, doesn't it make a bit of sense for you to see that part of it
is you?"
I've dated some real jerks and when I went back and contemplated the
problem...I had to learn what I did wrong; I was worth a lot more than
they could ever amount
to or its just the old, "can't have two suns in a
relationship......somebody
has to play moon" and I shine too much. Have you ever tried
therapy...lot
of misplaced anger in you post.
<------A woman who dates a jerk IS a jerk. End of story.
If all a woman did was go out with you for a couple of dates and then
tried to let you down easy....I wish my life had been that easy. Go
ahead hate women....none of us will probably lose too much sleep.
<------Until he decides to act on that hatred......that's another thing I
noticed about women: they love to provoke men who are obviously close to
the edge and send them over it. Is this because they like getting hit?
(Two million women a year do). I picture some woman saying the same
thing to Ted Bundy years ago and I shudder.
>
>Proud misogynist
>Clambers
and he's still single and hating every minute of it
Sinatra's the only one who got it "his way"
<-----See, I don't hate being single. WOMEN hate being single because
their goals are different. By the way, if you taunt this man the way you
do, and I were your life insurance provider, I'd cancel your policy. With
a mouth like yours, lady, the odds you will be beaten by a man are high,
and the odds that you will be murdered by one are also higher than
normal. For that I pity you.
Rune
want to hear my righteous wrath in regards to your idiotic statement below?
Here, just so others can see it clearly enough..."One rape makes a
victim.... 25 rapes make a participant."
Aren't you the same ignorant asshole that used the KKK and African-Americans
as a metaphor for your pathetic dating woes?
Now - you will want to make this into some sort of discussion about your
"rights" to believe what you believe and say what you want. You will
probably want to discuss these TWO inflammatory, pointless statements of
yours as if they have some validity beyond maiming others and trolling for
posts like the one you are receiving from me now.
But, I will say to you NO MORE. You have no need to ask the question why
"shouldn't" you hate women. It is quite obvious that you already do.
{{{pan}}}
Ignore this ass. You are loved.
rune
http://members.tripod.com/~runechord
Updated website.
Madness takes it's toll. Please have exact change.
panatraeu wrote in message <35c55486...@news.mindspring.com>...
>On Mon, 03 Aug 1998 05:21:36 GMT, clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>In article <35c4f565...@news.mindspring.com>,
>> zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
>>> On Sun, 02 Aug 1998 20:58:41 GMT, clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> >In article <35c4aa1f....@news.mindspring.com>,
>>> > zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
>>> i have been raped at least 25 times.
>>
>> One rape makes a victim.... 25 rapes make a participant.
>>
panatraeu
Some Dude Named ray___...@juno.com (Ray Gordon) wrote:
>Some Chick Writes:
>
>>In article <35c4aa1f....@news.mindspring.com>,
>> zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
>>> hey
>>> most of the men i have met have raped me.
>>> does that mean all men are rapists?
>>
>> Oh, please.... This is the kind of nonsense I was referring to.
> Most of the
>>men you have met have not raped you.
>
>how the hell would you know ?
>
><-----Most men are not rapists.
>
>
i know that, it was an example of his overgeneralization.
>
>>The most unlucky person in the world has
>>been raped maybe three times, you probably know close to 1000 men.
>
>oh yeah right! my father my brother and two friends, thats 1000 all
>right!
>
><--------Did your mom know about the rapes? What did she see in your dad
>exactly?
>
i didnt say they raped me, they didnt, they are the few men that i now
know. he says i know a thousand men and i hardly know any.
>> Unless you
>>are a plump hairy butt who likes to hang out in men's prison showers you
>have
>>not been raped 1000 times.
>
>i have been raped at least 25 times.
>
><-------By 25 different men?
no, mostly my uncle and my grandfather when i was a kid.
>
>>
>> Perhaps 1% of men are evil enough to rape a woman, the other 99%
>are
>>descent people.
>
>bullshit more like 10% are evil enough, but were not statitions are we?
>
><----The correct word is "statisticians."
i know, dont you ever make typing errors?
>
>> On the other hand, perhaps 90% of women act in the way that
>>I described in my original post (with the other 10% in such demand that
>they
>>can pick and choose as they please, aka the princess syndrome).
>
>thats right, and i will continue to pick and choose cus i *am* a
>princess.
>
><-----What makes you a princess? Your BODY? if not that, what?
>
nothing really, i was just being as jerky as him.
and pointing that I CAN BE CHOOSY, its my right, its yours too.
>>
>>Clambers
>>
>>PS- If you have been raped three times I seriously suggest you
>reevaluate the
>>places you hang out at.
>
>oh yeah,. so its my fault?
>how bout the first 20 or so times before i was 10 years old, should i
>have hung out elsewhere then too ?
>i can see why no one wants to be around you.
>
><-----Can you see why two million women a year want to be around the men
>who beat them to a pulp?
i've not been beat up or hung out with anyone who hurts people, my
only long term boyfriend raised his fist to me once and i was in a
taxi the same night and gone. so spout YOUR generalisations elsewhere.
Katie
funny and charming, outgoing and loving you are not going to have any
problems attracting (or keeping) a sexy, successful woman.
I was recently introduced to a man who I thought at first was
extremely unattractive. Nothing about this man's appearance was
appealing to me. If you saw us sitting at the table together, you'd
probably wonder what someone like me was doing with this lug.
After talking with him, though, I found myself more and more
interested. He had a seriously funny nature. Everything he said was
hilarious. With tears (of laughter) streaming down my face, I found
myself at the end of the night giving him my card and PRAYING later
that he'd use it.
I don't know what he does for a living. I don't know what he drives.
What I do know is he's not a thing of beauty and I'm still waiting on
his call. It's been a week and half...is it time to give up?
On Mon, 03 Aug 1998 03:57:54 GMT, motoyen <j...@direct.ca> wrote:
>I have noticed that whenever some guy comes on a ng complaining that he isn't getting
>any he usually faults it to the fact that he is not rich and well built. I have
>wondered if these are really the qualities that woman look for. In my experience it
>doesn't seem to be the case. I own three business and I am not yet 30, so needless to
>say I do all right. I don't flash my money around. I wear conservative clothes, I
>drive a sport utility, not a sports car. I have found that woman get intimidated when
>they find out how much I make. It seems to me that your attitude plays a larger role in
>attracting woman that your wallet. I seem to meet the same number of woman now and when
>I was working for minimum wage. My last girlfriend dumped me for a guy that stocks
>shelves at Office Max. Financially I make more in a week than he'll make all year, but
>he certainly had something I didn't.
>clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Why shouldn't I hate women?
>>
>> Hey, I started out honest and innocent, giving everyone the benefit
>> of the doubt, but women have made it clear to me that *they* don't want
>> anything to do with me. When I was young, I mistakenly thought that women
>> were rational, and if I was kind and respectful, I would be respected in
>> return. What did it get me? Lots of male friends, yet women who were too
>> repulsed by me to even make eye contact.
>>
>> In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
>> want to go out and do something sometime.... Each one has told me no in some
>> way or another. Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
>> (they don't like my dietary preferences, or hobbies, found new mystery men
>> that they would rather be with, have decided that they just would rather be
>> single -yeah right-, etc. No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
>> real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
>> money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
>>
>> I've joined clubs, put out personal adds, hung out at social events, and with
>> no result. Typically, women try hard not even to make eye contact with me....
>> Often I even have a pertinent reason to speak with a woman ("hey, you dropped
>> your wallet") and she will try to ignore me,. act like I'm trying to 'hit on'
>> her.
>>
>> What annoys me.... women who aren't interested in me (pretty much all
>> of them) who are too say so. They will 'put up' with you for 2, say 3 dates
>> then suddenly tell you that they don't want to see you again, that they were
>> just being 'nice' all along. Sometimes they even get nasty for no good
>> reason, and almost always they try to turn it around and blame you for
>> something or another. (and don't tell me that I am pestering them by calling
>> too often.... I have a very strict 'only call after you have been called'
>> rule that I enforce at all times). YOU COULD SAVE ME A WHOLE LOT OF TIME AND
>> MONEY BY BEING HONEST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
>>
>> But I'm sure that the women who are reading this simply don't care,
>> because, they are heartless. They have no emotions except for the desire to
>> take men's money, and a fury at how they are being 'oppressed' by males.
>> It's fashionable to hate men these days, but the way I see it, the women do
>> much more to be angry at. In fact, most men I know are the friendly quiet
>> type who really respect others, with a small group of deviants causing all of
>> the trouble, wheras most women I know are cruel and selfish, are used to
>> being treated like the 'princess', and yes, the older I get, the more I
>> realize that many women are slightly lazy and not so bright. I held back on
>> forming the last opinion, but how else would you explain the complete lack of
>> women in academic areas such as the hard sciences at a time when female
>> affirmative action is at ludicrous levels? (of course I know some brilliant
>> and kind women, but they all fall at about the 1% level, and then are at such
>> demand anyway that they suffer from super-princessites).
>>
>> Proud misogynist
>> Clambers
clam...@hotmail.com
zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Aug 1998 20:58:41 GMT, clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > zoo...@mindstuff.com (panatraeu) wrote:
> >> hey most of the men i have met have raped me.
> >> does that mean all men are rapists?
> > Oh, please.... This is the kind of nonsense I was referring to. Most
> > of the men you have met have not raped you.
>
> how the hell would you know ?
>
> >been raped maybe three times, you probably know close to 1000 men.
>
> oh yeah right! my father my brother and two friends, thats 1000 all
> right!
Oh, I see! You are one of these closet people who only gets to
travel outside on birthdays and holiday and hence you have only ever met for
men in your whole life. And yes, they all raped you.
Don't fly here!
Ya know If you were in fact raped, I'd even feel bad for you, except
that you are doing something pretty evil right now yourself. You are using
it to slander others, where by others I am referring to 'men'. Whatever evil
anyone has suffered gives them no right to do evil themselves. Perhaps I
could turn it around and tell you that it's OK what your father and brother
did, because, after all, they had tough childhoods themselves. Perhaps your
father was raped by someone himself when he was young, so I guess it is OK
that he did evil things to you? Of course not! And it is definitely not OK
that you are doing evil to others right now!
> > Unless you
> >are a plump hairy butt who likes to hang out in men's prison showers you have
> >not been raped 1000 times.
>
> i have been raped at least 25 times.
One rape makes a victim.... 25 rapes make a participant.
By the way, how do you define rape?
> > Perhaps 1% of men are evil enough to rape a woman, the other 99% are
> >descent people.
>
> bullshit more like 10% are evil enough, but were not statitions are
> we?
This is another example of what I would consider vicious slander.
You have just caused every woman reading this to look at every man she meets
as a 10% rapist.... If you can name one source (reasonable and reliable)
that 10% of men perform rapes, then I will personally apologize to you. But
you know what. I ain't gonna have to apologize.
> > On the other hand, perhaps 90% of women act in the way that
> >I described in my original post (with the other 10% in such demand that they
> >can pick and choose as they please, aka the princess syndrome).
>
> thats right, and i will continue to pick and choose cus i *am* a
> princess.
Oh, aren't you the helpless victim.
> >PS- If you have been raped three times I seriously suggest you reevaluate the
> >places you hang out at.
> oh yeah,. so its my fault?
> how bout the first 20 or so times before i was 10 years old, should i
> have hung out elsewhere then too ?
> i can see why no one wants to be around you.
Yeah, and what about the other 5? I bet you haven't ever even turned
one of the four supposed rapists in, have you? If you truely have been raped
by these men, it is your moral obligation to do so.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
clam...@hotmail.com
Jon Cohen <cohenj@cs._REMOVE_.unc.edu> wrote:
> Are the women who are "too repulsed by [you] to even make eye contact"
> women you have just met, or women you have met several times before.
Typically they are women I have just met.
> Especially if they are women you have just met, you had better take a
> long, hard look about your appearance. The way you dress and your
> personal hygiene makes more of a difference to most people (including
> women) than your height or income. I'm sure there are some women who
> are hung up on height or some other physical attribute you cannot
> change, but most are not (in my experience). The guys don't care as
> much, because they aren't worried that you will want to date them or
> hope that they will be attracted to you.
Well, let's see.... I am quite hygenic (the usual daily bath, teeth
brushing, dental visits, etc.). I spent much time working out (jogging, gym
visits) the past semester, and although I am not in perfect shape, I'd place
myself in the upper 25% (a tad bit overweight, but not more than 10lbs). A
friend called my clothing slightly unusual, but not unorganized or anything.
To sum up, I ain't perfect, but I'd say I'm still above average, and
I've been working on the stuff that can be fixed up anyway.
> > In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
> >want to go out and do something sometime.... Each one has told me no in some
> >way or another. Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
> >(they don't like my dietary preferences, or hobbies, found new mystery men
> >that they would rather be with, have decided that they just would rather be
> >single -yeah right-, etc. No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
> >real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
> >money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
>
> This last line is a pretty lame excuse.
>
> It's an excuse not to take a closer look at yourself, and to blame
> things that are difficult to change. You'll never make yourself taller,
> and no matter how much money you make (within reason), you'll always be
> able to suspect that the woman wanted someone who made more.
Hey, please, tell me the 'fix yourself' algorythm! I can't even
determine the 'what's wrong with me' algorythm, try as I may have. I've
asked close friends (only the closest, as when you pull that stuff with
aquaintances, you look kinda dorky).
> It's an excuse not to examine your appearance and your personality.
> Something about one or both of these either turns women off or scares
> them away. Most of us are either scared to examine our personality or
> don't know how to go about doing it. We feel that if we can't be
> ourselves, exactly as we are now, that we should accept our fate. While
> I do agree that you must mostly be who you are without some fake front,
> there's nothing wrong with examining our tendencies to see if some of
> them disturb other people (much like trying to reduce or eliminate "bad
> habits").
The way I see it, there are two types of characteristics.... Those
that matter and those that don't. In the former category are such things as
'honesty' and 'love of science', etc. In the latter fall such things as
'what brand pants I wear' and 'how I eat soup'. While I am quite adament
about not changing anything from group 1, I couldn't care less about anything
from group two. If wearing purple pants with pink ribbons is gonna get me
some love, hey, I'll do it!
Now the problem is discovering what the magic trait changes may be,
and whether they are in fact in group two.
(disclaimer- No, I don't think that puple pants with pink ribbons is
gonna get me some lovin', so no one come back with a 'hey I think I found
your problem' posting with regards to this).
> >Proud misogynist
> >Clambers
>
> Unfortunately, if you truly hate women, you create a self-fulfilling
> prophesy, and you will have no luck with them. Fortunately, you don't
> seem to have gone too far down that road yet. It will be much more
> productive for you to work on "improving" yourself in the eyes of others
> than to despise half of the world's population.
Oh, I've been doing this for years now.... aparently not the right way, but
I've been doing it. Got any suggestions?
> Good luck! If you've got a male friend who you can trust, who has at
> least slightly better luck with women than you, and who seems to have a
> pretty good perspective on life, maybe it's time to have a
> heart-to-heart talk with him about the way you are perceived. Of
> course, a woman friend you can trust would work well also, but you sound
> like you may have scared most of them off for the moment.
Done this also.
> I really hope things get better for you, and I'm sorry if my response
> seems too critical.
Critical? No offense, but it was kinda goody-goody.... You want to see
critical, see some of my previous responses.
Clambers
clam...@hotmail.com
seville <sev...@de-janews.com> wrote:
> I regret having to say this but some guys are just not likable. I work with a
> guy who is of average appearance (I suppose 6'1" and mostly fit) and maybe
> better than average intelligence but he never shuts up. Ever. And he only
> talks about things he has done. Over and over again. At times he even
> follows fellow workers into the restroom to continue talking. Plus he gets
> mad unreasonably and holds grudges forever. If it were possible to hold a two
> way conversation with him it would not be so bad but he always manages to make
> a monologue out of it.. The guy is turning 40 this year and hasn't a clue as
> to why he never found the right woman.
Hey, I think I know this guy! Always followed us around, bad dresser, a bit
overweight, bad temper and wouldn't stop talking (at least he did listen
sometimes). Then one day he comes out and asks me what he could do to get a
girlfriend (like I knew????). The sad thing is that I (and everyone else who
knew him) couldn't tell him the truth of the matter. Guess we were all too
guttless to be blunt with the guy (would have been a long explanation though,
don't know that I could have afforded the time).
Well, the thing that always bugged me was that this guy had no clue
what the real problems were. To us they were all blatent, to him, he was
cluless. So at least I know that I don't suffer from the same problems that
he had, but I often wonder if I also don't have some major flaw, possibly
easy to correct, but that I am cluless about and that others around me are
too guttless to tell me about.
How do you find out about those things?
clam...@hotmail.com
> > I'm thinking a couple of things here....
> >
> > 1) You're a troll. Deliberately posting (and crossposting) insulting stuff
> > to get a rise out of people. In which case, I'm playing right into it.
> > Knowingly. So maybe you're right: women are stupid. I am if I'm playing
> > into your game, aren't I? Which means all women are.
Mean it all, but granted, I ain't in the best of moods.
> > 2) You're not a troll. And mean every word of it.
> > Why are you here in groups with so many women? What do you possibly hope
> > to gain? APPROVAL for and ACCEPTANCE of your hatred of us???? That would
> > be utterly STUPID to expect.
Hey, I chose my groups carefully.... I'm trying to get some insight
into this whole thing.
'alt.depression' because of the psych types that hand out there who might
really be experienced with the subject 'alt.romance' because it is filled
with lots of guys with the same problems, and soc.women because it is filled
with lots of women who are really mad at men, and frankly I wanted some real
criticism directed at me vs. the usual 'oh, it'll be better, you just wait
and see', because becoming aware of what's wrong is the only way I'll fix it.
> > As if I'm going to open my heart to someone
> > who hates me without ever knowing anything about me. Yeah RIGHT. pshhhht.
> > You may think I'm stupid, but I'm not THAT stupid.
But alas, you did open your heart in this very email, and for that I
thank you.
> > Ever consider that perhaps your anger and bitterness is all over your face
> > and body language and leaks out in your day-to-day words and actions and
> > that it might be driving women away in droves?
Nope, I'm a great actor. To tell you the truth, most of the women I
know refer to me as 'a nice guy', and 'oh, he is so sweet', and all those
other things that basically are the romantic kiss of death.
> > Ever consider that maybe women are smart enough to sense when someone is
> > going to be an emotional burden on them and, again, run away in droves?
A fact I'm aware of, and a true danger for a fellow like myself who
hasen't been in a relationship for years.... and hence I strictly follow the
'only call when called' rule (except for the first call of course). Still, I
don't know if there are things that I do that possibly look desparate.
> > Ever consider that maybe WE aren't responsible for making YOU happy? We
> > are responsble for making our own selves happy and we have to do what we
> > THINK will get us there, such as dating or marrying someone else.
However, when a complete group of people (ie- women) decide that I as
a human being am devoid of worth, that being away from me makes them happy
and being with me makes them unhappy.... When they play a series of cruel
mindgames with only regard to their own happiness with a blatent disregard to
my own, well, then I'd say I have the right to dislike that group of people.
> > Ever consider that maybe *everyone* in this world has do to a song and
> > dance to get noticed? Why do you think that YOU are exempt from making all
> > the appropriate mating dance maneuvers? Why do you think that you can do a
> > half-assed job of it and be successful when the rest of us can't get away
> > with that either? Why do you think you are more special than us?
Oh, please, women needen't go through a fraction of what men need go
through with regard to the dating game. When a woman can't get a date, it is
because she chooses not to date the men who are interested in her. When a
man can't get a date, it is because no waman is interested in him. You know
not of what you speak on this one.
> > Ever consider that women who aren't "honest" in the first place are at
> > least paying enough attention to YOUR ego to try to be nice? Pardon us for
> > TRYING not to hurt you needlessly, and pardon us for assuming that *you*
> > are smart enough to read between the lines. Geez.
This really peeves me off.... Women who lead you on to 'spare your
feelings' aren't doing it to be nice. They are clearly doing it to feed
their own cowardliness. You don't consider it 'nice' to let a guy think you
really care for him then pull back. How would you like it if a great
looking, gorgeous, intelligent guy started hanging out with you, then dated
you then proposed marriage.... but then left you at the alter, ashamed in
front of friends and family, then told his friends how he did that all just
'to be nice'. Oh, or how about this one.... Why don't you call up a poverty
stricken family and tell them on the phone that they just won a prize of $1,
000, 000! Boy that would be really 'nice', and I'm sure their egos would be
skyrocketing when they found out they they had overcharged their bank acount
and the few things they owned were being repossessed.
> > On the other hand, maybe they aren't trying to be nice. Maybe they are
> > trying to protect themselves from your anger. Sounds like a smart thing to
> > do, to me. Self-preservation. Maybe women aren't so stupid after all.
You know, this is a perfect example of how it is perfectly OK to hate
males in todays society.... You condone cruel behavior towards men (letting
them think you are interested when you are not) under the assumption that,
well, 'men are all violent creatures and we women must be carefull never to
upset them lest they kill us as they are apt to do'. Not to mention that
even under that assumption, it is still plainly a stupid thing to do- the man
who is dropped after being let on for some time would certainly be much
angrier than they man who was let down before any emotional attachments were
made.
> > Do you really think I'm going list out all my attributes that might or
> > might not deny your characterizaton of me? Defend myself? Debate with you
> > or say "awww, I'm so sorry. Let me fix it. Let me list all the wonderful
> > things about women that you're forgotten." Yeah, right.... and leave
> > myself open to having you knock it down bit by bit, or use it to flail me
> > and other women with?
I don't particularly need your list of woman pros and cons.... I pretty much
have that already built up in my head.
> > You ooze hatred. If I came in contact with you and sensed it, I'd run away
> > as fast as I could.
You however seem calm as a clam and friendly and fresh as an evergreen tree.
Ah, smell that cool clean air.
> > There. Is that honest enough for you? Are you going to respect that? Or
> > are you going to deny every word I've said? I guess we'll see.
I don't know that deny is the correct word, but tell you where you are
completely wrong, that I'll do.
> > Then again, if you're a troll, there probably won't be any reply at all.
Sigh, were it only true that this was a troll. Were it only true
that my life were a troll....
> > Either way, I don't expect you to hear a single word of this. Because in
> > MY experience, men like YOU don't want to hear anything except agreement of
> > your hate. Kind of an irrational thing for you to expect from women, don't
> > you think?
Come now, someone has to correct all of your blatent mistakes, no?
So do I get the honer of hearing your reply? The irony is, I didn't read
this last line until I got to this point in my response, yet I kept thinking
the same in reverse of your type and my chances of receiving a response.
motoyen
intelligence.
" One rape makes a victim.... 25 rapes make a participant."
Hey clam, why are you here? If woman in your life don't give a shit about you
because you're such a loser why do you think woman online would care. Face the
facts buddy. When it comes to woman you are a failure. You may be adequate in
other areas, but when it come to dealing with intelligent woman, you suck. You are
no good. Don't you get it, that is what all the woman you meet are trying to tell
you. They pretend that you don't exist because to them they can't believe that a
loser like you would even try to approach them. Cop a clue.
If you happen to meet with some success in meeting a woman than your more than
welcome to come share it with us here. So I guess we won't be hearing from you.
Ray Gordon
It's the guy. It's not money or a car or a killer body. If you're
funny and charming, outgoing and loving you are not going to have any
problems attracting (or keeping) a sexy, successful woman.
<------Notice that HONEST was not on top of that list. This is how you
find a CHEATER, or a PLAYER.
I was recently introduced to a man who I thought at first was
extremely unattractive. Nothing about this man's appearance was
appealing to me. If you saw us sitting at the table together, you'd
probably wonder what someone like me was doing with this lug.
<----Based on LOOKS?
After talking with him, though, I found myself more and more
interested. He had a seriously funny nature. Everything he said was
hilarious. With tears (of laughter) streaming down my face, I found
myself at the end of the night giving him my card and PRAYING later
that he'd use it.
<----Guys who crack jokes in the beginning still crack jokes when a
crisis hits. Read alt.seduction.fast on how liars use humor to charm
idiotic women like yourself.
I don't know what he does for a living. I don't know what he drives.
What I do know is he's not a thing of beauty and I'm still waiting on
his call. It's been a week and half...is it time to give up?
<------I find it interesting how your opinion of the man changed while
the man did not. Women love to sit in judgement of men. He chose to win
you over, although in doing so he revealed not one single long-term
quality that makes a relationship survive.
Ellen Shumate
there are 2 men in my life i really love. My husband is 5'6", balding, drives an old pickup
truck, and makes $20,000 a year. i married him when i was 38 years old and it was my first
marriage (contrary to your twisted belief, some women really would rather be alone than be
with someone they don't especially like). what attracted me to him? mainly, it was the way
he treated me. he treats me like a thinking, feeling, intelligent human being. there were
other factors involved (both of us like to stay home, etc.), but it was mainly those things.
i love the way he treats animals and people weaker than himself. he puts me first (with the
result that i put him first). i like the way he takes care of his elderly, disabled mother,
and the way he treats my parents with dignity and respect. He is compassionate toward my
mentally ill sister. I would not have traded this man for all the flashy cars and big bucks
on earth.
the other man is a friend of ours. he also treats everyone with dignity and respect no
matter who they are, and is kind to animals and children.
i don't know what your personality problems are, but there must be something. perhaps your
hateful attitude toward women is showing here? We can sense that a mile away.
btw, i have a genius level iq and am a geneticist. i have in the past been a clinical
psychologist, and in my professional opinion your attitude sucks.
Sunfire1
|On Mon, 03 Aug 1998 06:40:11 GMT, in alt.support.depression,
|clam...@hotmail.com said:
|
|>In article <35C531FC...@direct.ca>,
|
|>'alt.depression' because of the psych types that hand out there who might
|>really be experienced with the subject 'alt.romance' because it is filled
|>with lots of guys with the same problems, and soc.women because it is
filled
|>with lots of women who are really mad at men, and frankly I wanted some
real
|>criticism directed at me
|
|technique there, pal.
|
|However, it wouldn't be the right kind of criticism. You say you're a
|"nice guy". Nice guys aren't inflammatory like this post is. So you're
|not showing us the guy you are "out there" who has bad luck. Any criticism
|you get would not be for the right things.
|
Sure Wombn.....some of this thread has gone a bit far with the
wording....but as far as the nice guy image goes......I'm a nice guy and
where has it gotten me? ZILLTCH....ZERO....NOTHING.
This takes me back to another post of mine called the bad boy image. It was
posted a while back about most women want adventure and danger in their
lives so they seek out the BB's of society. Then they get the shit kicked
out of them and right away all men are bastards and good for nothing. But it
takes about 40 beatings from these BB's before they realize that something
is wrong with the relationship. They fall into that "I don't want to press
charges cause I still love him" catagory.
mir...@my-dejanews.com
cdu...@mindspring.com wrote:
> sep...@bu.edu (Sepideh Baghaii) wrote:
>
> Yeah, that's true. In fact, that's probably the ultimate criteria women go
by.
> Combination of everything. That's probably my biggest weakness of all, since
I
> have so many weaknesses and so few strengths. My overall personal score
sucks.
> I imagine that's not what you meant though. Every person is different and
has
> different tastes. Maybe one somewhere would be willing to be with me.
Problem
> is, I seem to have the right combination of weaknesses and non-strengths that
> would logically and non-logically (emotionally, whatever) fail to meet the
> standards of every single woman on the face of the earth, including those who
> have no standards at all. But I could be wrong and because of that I will
> continue to hope.
so Chris... What are you doing to fix it? Are you working on improving
yourself? Becoming a person with more strengths? Or are you sitting around
going "Oh woe is me... no one wants me" ? If it's the former there is hope..
if it's the latter.. have a nice bitter, single life..
What I'm saying is, your future is in your own hands..you can do something
positive to improve it... or you can sit around and feel sorry for yourself.
Your call.
S.Pickrell
> Oh, please. I'm being myself right now, ya think it is going
> to get me alot of dates?
After reading a few of your posts, you seem instead of being someone who
genuinely hates women, someone who just hasn't been able to connect. You
seem interested in improving yourself.
"Just be yourself." That is such a damned cliche. Yet, if you try to put
on a mask, and be something/someone else, the real you will shine
through eventually ... masks are very sweaty things to wear, you know.
You might be able to put up a charade for a few weeks, months even ... I
hope that I am not doing this without my knowledge with Becca ...
So. Calm down. Go out to a movie by yourself. Exchange a sentence with
the girl who takes your ticket, the girl who scoops your popcorn. Enjoy
the movie by yourself.
You seem to have a lot of male friends. Ask some for candid feedback.
Ask them to arrange double/blind dates. Who knows, you might click, you
might not. No law says that two people will have to click.
Expect someone you meet on these events to be normal. Not Cindy
Crawford, but not someone who makes you wish you didn't show up. With
luck, her expectations will be normal as well.
If you don't click with someone, find someone else quickly.
Make a personal ad. Post it on a number of services. If someone insists
that you lie about yourself, hang up the phone and go to another
service. Also, contact the Better Business Bureau. (I was sitting there
in complete shock when I was reading Chris' post about his experience
with posting with the LA Times.) That will serve as a good backup. Maybe
you might only get one reply every six months. Maybe one a month. Who
knows? I have had some ads receive 3-4 replies, others none. Go figure.
Answer ads if you have the money. Expect maybe a 20-50% reply rate. I've
never had more than half the women whose ads I answer reply to me. I've
met a couple. Right now, I am on #3, and hope to make something last of
that.
In the reply, refrain from obscenities (you'll be surprised how many
non-sexual ads will get sexually tinged replies.) Unless, of course, you
are interested in that sort of thing and the woman posts an ad asking
for that sort of thing. It happens. Tell the person a little bit about
yourself, if only a couple of paragraphs. Don't just say, "Hi, I'm 27,
live in XXXX, gotta go, bye." That gets you nowhere. Trust me. Women get
lots of replies to their ads, and if you make yours somewhat different,
then you will be answered.
Circulate. Yet, don't be a social butterfly. Reserve some days for
quality time with you, the computer and/or the television. Other days,
do something, even if it's just going out to get a burger.
Is this more concrete advice. Also remember the Fifth Knightly Law:
Everything is attractive to someone. If you find a genuine flaw within
yourself, then change it. Maybe you scare them off by talking about
lasting committment or marriage on the second date, for example. If
they've already made up their mind about you, then that will be OK, but
if they haven't then that is a quick way to scare a woman off. I'm not
saying that you do THAT, but maybe you do something that inadvertently
scares them off. What it might be, I wouldn't know obviously.
I assume of course that you do the basics: shower, dress appropriately,
etc. I'm not going to insult you by advising you to do that, because I
know you already do that.
Good luck and may the Schwarz be with you.
Shawn Pickrell
http://members.tripod.com/~sirshawn
Katie
wrote:
>Some Chick Writes:
>
>It's the guy. It's not money or a car or a killer body. If you're
>funny and charming, outgoing and loving you are not going to have any
>problems attracting (or keeping) a sexy, successful woman.
>
><------Notice that HONEST was not on top of that list. This is how you
>find a CHEATER, or a PLAYER.
I believe most people are decent and honest and that those are among
the basic characteristics which most humans share. I was focusing on
the frills, the things which help define us as individuals.
>
>I was recently introduced to a man who I thought at first was
>extremely unattractive. Nothing about this man's appearance was
>appealing to me. If you saw us sitting at the table together, you'd
>probably wonder what someone like me was doing with this lug.
>
><----Based on LOOKS?
Well, duh! What else do you have to go on until the other person
opens his or her mouth? We're judged on many levels. Superficially
at first, natch! Real depth can't come into play until an exchange
occurs.
>
>After talking with him, though, I found myself more and more
>interested. He had a seriously funny nature. Everything he said was
>hilarious. With tears (of laughter) streaming down my face, I found
>myself at the end of the night giving him my card and PRAYING later
>that he'd use it.
>
><----Guys who crack jokes in the beginning still crack jokes when a
>crisis hits. Read alt.seduction.fast on how liars use humor to charm
>idiotic women like yourself.
>
That has not been my experience. I think people who are able to see
humor in situations tend not to panic when crisis occurs. This guy
didn't crack jokes, either--he was just smart and clever and witty.
>I don't know what he does for a living. I don't know what he drives.
>What I do know is he's not a thing of beauty and I'm still waiting on
>his call. It's been a week and half...is it time to give up?
>
><------I find it interesting how your opinion of the man changed while
>the man did not. Women love to sit in judgement of men. He chose to win
>you over, although in doing so he revealed not one single long-term
>quality that makes a relationship survive.
>
He did change, in my mind's perspective. If I viewed him the same
from the first minute as I did in the last, I would be as closed
minded as you appear to be. You seem to have a mind like a steel
trap. It snaps shut instantly.
Peter Beck
you had any idea who you were replying to you would have shut up long
ago, but instead you blunder on attacking someone you don't know over
things you know nothing about. You end up looking foolish.
I find it hard to believe anyone finds you "sweet" or a "nice guy".
Maybe your biggest problem is that you run your mouth before you know
the facts. Learn to listen to people - really listen - and you might
learn a thing or two. And you'll do a lot better.
Cheers,
Peter.
-----
Now my advocates, my angels with sadist eyes,
this is the begining of my life, or the end.
- Elizabeth Smart,
By Grand Central Station
I Sat Down and Wept
clam...@hotmail.com
cdu...@mindspring.com wrote:
> If you go back and look at what I said was wrong with me, you'll see that
> virtually everything I mentioned is genetic and cannot be changed (or if not
> genetic, then a quality which virtually nobody can change unless they get deep
> into their soul, chi, and other Eastern healing arts, and yes, I've tried that
> too, and I have no knack for "finding my spirit" or "finding my energy" or
> whatever it is you need to find).
What, not having a job is genetic???? Well, perhaps it is, but....
OK, another dorky thing you did.... What's all this chi garbage?
Not that I have a clue, hey perhaps it and snapple are the greatest stuff on
earth. But does that mean you should ramble into some meaningless and
esoteric discussion of it where it has no purpose whatsoever?
> > And don't give me this poor sob story of not being able to find a
> >job. Any self proclaimed 'exceptional computer programmer' on the job market
> >in probably one of the best economic times in the history of our country, at
> >a time where the software industry is growing like mad could only remain
> >jobless so long if he were trying. When is the last time you sent out a
> >batch of applications?
>
> Last Friday actually. Sent out 14 resumes to 14 different companies. I plan
> to
> make followup calls to the ones that gave phone numbers in JobTrak, so those
> companies won't easily be able to shut me out or avoid a response.
Great.... Your on the right track, but that still doesn't answer to
me why you have been out of a job for months during one of the biggest
economic booms in the history of out country in a field that is growwing like
mad, but I suppose you like to change the topic.
> > I'd be thrilled to know what I was doing wrong so that I could go and
> > fix it.
>
> There are many posts here telling you what the fuck is wrong.
Some are enlightening but many haven't said much of use. But that is
still good because any forward progress on such a slow moving front is great
progress.
Clambers
Kim Johnson
Chris D wrote in message <35c549ba...@news.mindspring.com>...
>
>clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>> >Why shouldn't I hate women?
>>> Because they can't help who they like, anymore than us guys can help who
we
>>> like.
>>
>> They reject my values and way of life. They have made it clear that they
see
>>nothing of worth in me. I have a right to be annoyed. So if you are
black
>>(perhaps you are) you shouldn't hate the KKK for how they feel about you?
>
>Interesting point. I can't come up with a counter-argument for that. Can
>anyone else? I guess that means I should hate women. Do unto others as
and do
>everything to them that the KKK does to blacks. An eye for an eye.
Counter point: the KKK stand for a political(?) POV--common ground/cause
however you want to put it. All women do not have the same POV.
>
>Hmmm... actually, I never said you didn't have a right to be annoyed. In
fact,
>I never said you didn't have a right to hate them. If you do hate them,
it's
>understandable, going what you've gone through, and it's understandable
>considering the mindset you are in. I guess I just handle it differently.
I
>don't hate women (or if I do I don't admit it even to myself) simply
because
>hating women won't get me anywhere. Of course, you could make the argument
that
>nothing will get me anywhere. But I guess it shows I haven't quite given
up yet
>if I'm unwilling to hate women. I'm glad I realized that. Well, actually,
>there are other reasons not to hate women. I generally don't like to hate
>anybody even if there's no apparent consequence for hating anybody. There
are
>internal consequences to hating that I don't know how to describe, but
they're
>there.
I don't have the time to hate some group just because...I cannot grow or
learn from my mistakes/my problems if I excuse my responsibility by blaming
everything that happens on someone else.
>>
>>> Honesty and innocence aren't very sexually attractive traits in a man
>>
>> My point exactly.... how can I respect a group who puts no value on
honesty.
Actually, that depends on what you mean by honesty....if you mean the type
of hurtful bluntness that I have seen both emotionally wounded(mortally
wounded) men and women use, then yes-that is not attractive. If you mean
honest communication on where I am, what I am doing, where I am going in
life and what I want from a partner...that's different...not that all want
that--many still beleive in the "I get married and live happily ever after
without having to work at it" crap--both males and females.
>
>Then disrespect the whole f*cken human race because that's the way the
whole
>human race is (with a few rare exceptions like you and perhaps me).
Actually,
>honesty isn't as much the issue as is trust. You can be honest all you
want but
>if people don't trust you you won't get anywhere. And complete uncensored
>honesty can generate distrust because the person will think you are trying
to
>hurt them in some way. It's complicated and I could go on and on.
>
>I guess most people put high value on honesty, they just may not know what
is
>honest from others, and cannot know if the other is truly honest. It's a
>complex human thing.
>
>>> I don't know what the problem is. Maybe you seem too demanding in a
>>> particular way, or you have too strict a set of rules or something that
might
>>> annoy women.
>>> Maybe you seem resentful of women. I don't know. There are lots of
>>> possibilities. If I met you in person I might be able to get an idea of
what,
>>> if anything, they might find unacceptable in you.
What do you do for fun? Are you involved in groups? sports? theatre(as in
amateur, not attending broadway shows)? If you sit around all the time and
just bemoan that you can't find a date, you won't. Become interested in
life and people become interested in you.
>
>In a way, I am too. You're probably right about most of the weaknesses I
>stated. Most of them don't matter in themselves. I feel like even I
turned all
>the weaknesses I mentioned into strengths, still no female would like me
>(well... hmmm... more would certainly give me a chance and then find out
>possibly that they like me.)
>
>>> I've only gone out with one
>>> female in my entire life, and she soon told me that she didn't really
like me
>>> either, and was just being nice to me. She was at first willing to
remain
>>> friends, but then backed out on that too.
>>
>> This is what I hate.... when they are too spineless to be straightforward
in
>>the first place, but instead wait until you are have developed an
emotional
>>attachment. What is this 'being nice' garbage? Being 'nice' would be
being
>>honest. No, she was really just guttless, and slightly cruel in fact.
Ya know I could say the same about men.....haven't you ever heard the jokes
about, "I'll call ya" and no phone calls? It's better for you to figure
that this will happen, but doesn't necessarily mean all do it.
>
>She felt that way herself, and went through some hard times because she saw
>herself the same way you noted in your last sentence. But this was in
>retrospect. At the time, she simply didn't know whether she wanted a
>relationship with me or not, and I genuinely believe that. I think she was
>looking for a certain feeling to come to her about me and when she realized
that
>feeling wasn't going to materialize, she decided to call it off. But once
she
>decided she was pretty straightforward in telling me. And she said it
would
>have been even worse if she'd waited even longer, and she said she was
sorry she
>had to hurt me but by that point there was no possible way to avoid it (and
btw,
>it was only 4 weeks from the time I first met her when she broke it to me).
>It's just an unfortunate circumstance that's impossible to avoid, and no
man or
>woman who has any hopes, dreams, and patience can do anything about it.
Sorry for your pain, but I am impressed by the depth of your writing.
>>>
>>> Personal ads are futile if you're not tall and/or don't have a lot of
money.
>>> In fact, the L.A. Times wouldn't even publish my ad the one time I tried
>>>because it stated my low height, and that I liked computers. The
airheaded >>>woman who censored these ads said it made me look too geeky and
made me >>>look too much like a virgin. So she changed the ad completely to
make me >>>look much more desirable (including adding lies) and I never got
any responses >>>anyway. Not only that, but generally only older men are
sought out by the >>>women who look for dates in the personal ads. In the
"women seeking men" >>>ads, there was not a single ad I could find that
included an age range under >>>25. And there were hundreds of ads.
>>
>> See, this is where I feel we are from different planets.... In the
>>first place, there are plenty of pre-25 and even more pre-30 female adds.
>>Now, it is true that most of them won't acknowledge a response, and those
>>that do rarely keep any contact, but they exist.
>
>Yes, but those pre-25 year olds are *always* looking for a man older than
25,
>and often as old as 50 for crying out loud. I guess about one in ten don't
make
>a preference for any age. But I never saw one that gave an age range that
>included anybody under 25. (and rarely even under 35) I suppose that's
not an
>issue though because eventually I'll be old myself.
And here lies the problem--you are still a baby!!!! Go out and just date,
why worry about relationships? You don't even know yourself yet!!! Anyway
have you tried Classifieds2000? First of all, you can set up the add anyway
you want, no one will edit(unless lewd, I guess). I can't see the thing
with computers...geez I would think, especially in LA, there would be alot
of people who would enjoy that!
>>> As for intelligence, that's more important. When you say so bright, you
>>> probably mean she tends not to talk about technical things very much, or
>>> understand technical things very much.
>>
>> When I say bright, I am referring to the lack of women in the hard
sciences.
Well, my degree is in computer science, guess I measure up--and my daughter
is in college for CS--wow 2 of us at once---how special. Of course I bet
you don't consider a nursing degree as one of the "hard sciences", huh?
Although it is nurses that usually teach the doctors in the real world as
opposed to academia.
>
>I sort of covered this in another post.
>
>>> And I don't really have any redeeming qualities that any intelligent
woman
>>> would like. I don't even have a good philosophical mind. I can't draw
worth
>>> shit. I can't write poetry worth shit. I can't speak eloquently in
person worth >>>shit. I can't learn to play an instrument because I'm not
coordinated enough. I >>>guess I can't sing very well though *I* think I
can sing okay, everybody else >>>thinks my singing is pretty bad, or at
best average. I make women too >>>uncomfortable because I'm often tense
around them, and can't think of things >>>to say, or rather
So you are basically shy? There are workshops that can be beneficial. Also
part of that just comes with age and experience. Did you go to an all-boys
school? I mean, I always had friends that were male...to this day. Also,
whether you can write poetry, you can know the difference between e. e.
cummings and Sylvia Plath; you may not be able to paint, but you should be
able to hold a conversation on different styles of painting and different
painters(Monet, Renoir and Cezanne are all impressionists,
Dali--surrealist)--same goes for music. This doesn't mean you should know
all of them, just what you favor.
>>
>>> And, well, I'm short.
>>
>> Well, from what I know, this one is a true problem, except for real short
>>women.
>
>And even the real short women seem to like the utmost tallest men.
Can't help you there....I'm tall for a woman and yes, I date over
6'--otherwise we look silly.
>
>>> Wow, I have enough truly major unchangeable undesirable qualities to fit
13
>>> full-length lines. And I probably have many more undesirable qualities
I'm
>>> not thinking about (and don't really want to think about).
>>
>> The main thing that annoyes me about you is that you know what is wrong
with
>>you yet make no attempt to try to fix any of it, in fact are trying to
ignore
>>that the problems exist.
>
>But you said yourself those problems are unimportant anyway. Why try to
fix
>them? I only stated the problems I have that are unfixable because I've
pretty
>well fixed all the other problems with myself. The ones that are left are
>pretty unfixable for most human beings. That's why they're problems for
me. I
>have tried to fix many of them before, without any success.
>
But if you know that you have some "undesirable" qualities and you don't
want to do anything about them...well....I know this woman at work...always
complaining that she can't find a man. We have told her to basically "clean
up"(her hygiene could use some work---wrinkled clothes, worn t-shirts cuz
she's too 'poor' to buy new clothes but she has enough money to eat out all
the time---her priority, doesn't always brush her hair!), but her attitude
is they have to accept her the way she is--needless to say what is attracted
to her, she feels isn't good enough--she wants Mel Gibson, but only gives a
fake Roseanne Barr in return--she has no one to blame but herself.
Bunny
refrigerator.
Also they give Alan something to read in alt.guinea.pig.conspiracy and
something to make Bryan the Evil Guinea Pig Eater something to salivate
over as he hears them running under the floorboards.
wombn <wo...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
> A guy has to make me laugh, or spark my brain, or surprise me in some
way.
> Sometimes even piss me off a bit. Those are "swimming pool walls" I can
> push off from. Also, if what I put out there is met with limpness or
> blandness, the momentum dissipates.
>
> I find that "nice guys" don't give me much to push off from and meet my
> efforts with blandness. fizzle.
I love your dance analogy.
You put that really well. I get awfully tired of that "women don't like
nice guys" plaint. That is such a crock. As if we seek abuse. Guys who
say this are missing the point by a country mile. It's not that we don't
like nice. We like nice just fine. It's just that, like the other half of
human beings on the planet, nice isn't the be-all and end-all, all by
itself, any more than any other one quality is. We like nice *and*.
Someone can be nice and have no sense of humour. Or be nice and pick their
nose and hide it under their shirt collar. (My juniour high school art
teacher, Mr. Ho, used to walk down the hall, pick his nose, and put it
behind his ear. It was fascinating to watch.) Or nice, but be so into
engineering that he doesn't talk about anything but engineering.
Being interesting encompasses more than nice, but I doubt nice is ever a
disqualifier.
I like nice. I want nice. But there is also that other thing. That thing
that you find developing as you start to know someone -- the recognition of
The Other, the one who shares your perceptions, who challenges and
surprises you, the one who brings you to sudden sharp laughter at some
antic turn. A chord of recognition is struck inside you, one wild heart
calling and answered by another, calling and answering things you couldn't
put into words until the one finds the other and they find it is so
together.
If you can understand that then you get the prize at the bottom of the
Cracker Jack. I guess I can't put it into words either.
> my goddamn period started. (don't you just love knowing that?)
I read down this far hoping to find out! I feel so much closer to you now.
Makes me feel better about complaining about ovulating earlier in the
week. Heh.
--
Bunny
Anonymous
>refrigerator.
this is true
but there not real popular in licorish jellybean factories
Chris D
>The thing is, with nice guys....
>
>I have an analogy I hope I can describe right. But if you don't do any
>kind of ballroom-type of dancing, it might not be useful:
>
>I've done a fair bit of ballroom dancing. I'm not an expert, but I can
>follow most leads. The ones I can't follow are the bland ones. The limp
>ones. When their hand is trying to direct me into a turn, I can barely
>feel it. I have to try to guess what they are trying to communicate. Sort
>of like pushing off a wall in a swimming pool, but missing it cuz you're
>too far away. You don't go anywhere. Your feet flail around uselessly.
>
>I really hate dancing with them. It's no fun. Or I end up getting bored
>and frustrated and then I end up trying to lead, which never works cuz they
>are still trying to lead, too. Even if they tried to follow, they would
>have no resistence and so their arm would move but the rest of them
>wouldn't. (The follower has to be a little bit stiff from arm to shoulder
>so that the leader can push them a bit)
>
>I simply adore dancing because it's wonderful to let go have my body moved
>around for me. Which is why I love roller coasters and massages. I can
>turn off my brain and just float with it.
>
>Sometimes, I even like leading as long as the person can get follow lightly
>yet have enough stiffness that my push will be reacted to without me having
>to wrestle him through it.
>
>I look at relationships the same way. There's a push-pull dance thing
>going on. If I'm not fluid, and he doesn't give me anything to push off
>on, or vice versa, it just goes nowhere.
>
>A guy has to make me laugh, or spark my brain, or surprise me in some way.
>Sometimes even piss me off a bit. Those are "swimming pool walls" I can
>push off from. Also, if what I put out there is met with limpness or
>blandness, the momentum dissipates.
>
>I find that "nice guys" don't give me much to push off from and meet my
>efforts with blandness. fizzle.
That's probably why no female has ever been interested in me. Because of
exactly what you say. Forgive me for being blunt, and it's not your fault, but,
THIS REALLY FUCKING PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am probably just like you describe above (actually I'm probably MUCH FUCKING
WORSE THAN THAT EVEN BECAUSE I CAN'T LEARN TO DANCE WORTH SHIT THE SAME WAY I
CAN'T LEARN TO PLAY AN INSTRUMENT BECAUSE MY MIND ALWAYS GETS CONFUSED.) But
assuming I had the skill to learn to dance at all, I would have a problem making
more... "forceful" movements so that she knew what I was trying to signal (i.e.
turn here, turn there, whatever.) And actually, I CAN just go ahead and be
forceful, but I can't do it in a graceful and diplomatic enough a way and
therefore my movements simply seem rude and crude. SO I'M FORCED TO BE SO
GENTLE AS TO FUCKING BE BLAND BECAUSE WHEN I'M NOT BLAND OR WHATEVER IT SEEMS
RUDE AND CLUMSY AND IDIOTIC!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS WHOLE THING ALL TIES INTO MY LACK OF COORDINATION, WHICH I **CANNOT**
CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF I COULD CHANGE IT, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHANGED A
LONG FUCKING TIME AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>No. Not the assumption that all men are violent. The assumption that a
>"nice guy" will crumble and perhaps lay a guilt trip on me. Remember, it's
>been a real battle for me to say no to anyone. Years back, the only people
>I could say no to were those who were very obviously abusive.
AND THAT'S THE MAJOR REASON WHY NICE GUYS NEVER GET A DATE!!!! I GUESS I GOTTA
LEARN TO BE RUDE AND FORCEFUL AND INSENSITIVE SO THAT SHE DOESN'T RISK FEELING
GUILTY IF SHE FEELS LIKE DOING SOMETHING THAT ISN'T KIND!!!!! AND BELIEVE ME I
REALLY BELIEVE I NEED TO LEARN TO DO THAT! I JUST CAN'T BECAUSE I'M TOO FUCKING
SOCIALLY CLUMSY!!!!!!!!!
THE ONLY REASON GUYS BECOME NICE IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE GOING FOR
THEM THAT WOULD ATTRACT A FEMALE!!!! THEY DON'T HAVE THE FUCKING SUAVENESS OR
ANY OF THAT SHIT!!!! THEY ARE CLUMSY!!!! AND SO ANYTHING THEY DO THAT'S NOT
TIMID OR GENTLE COMES OFF AS RUDE OR MEAN OR POSSIBLY EVEN "SCARE THE SHIT OUT
OF YOU!!" FORGIVE ME FOR SHOUTING IT'S JUST MY OWN FUCKING WEAKNESS AND
FRUSTRATION!!! PUT UP WITH IT OR DON'T READ!!!!
BUT HELL I'M THE SAME FUCKING WAY!!!! THIS MORNING I "DREAMED ABOUT" A "BAD"
GIRL!!!! (not anybody in this group though, it was someone I haven't seen in
over 10 years, since 8th grade... she's probably a 24-year-old mom by now who
has herpes and shit but I didn't think about that. she was a deviant and
probably sexually promiscuous back in 8th grade, and um, she was also the only
person ever to give me a valentine gram, ever, in any school).
In any case, the only reason we're nice guys probably is that we have nothing
else going for us. If we had anything else that might attract a female we
wouldn't need to be all that nice, respectful maybe, but not "nice" or timid or
gentle or anything like that.
>It wasn't a matter of being self-absorbed or cruel. Not for me it wasn't.
>FOR ME (I don't know about other women), I did not really know what my
>rights were. I felt like I was an evil person for not liking everyone in
>the whole world. I really did.
I FEEL GUILTY FOR NOT LIKING EVERY NICE PERSON IN THE WORLD TOO!!! IT'S
NORMAL!!!!
>Any kind of assertiveness that I was born with was systematically stamped
>out. I had to learn it the hard way.
>
>>upset them lest they kill us as they are apt to do'. Not to mention that
>>even under that assumption, it is still plainly a stupid thing to do- the man
>>who is dropped after being let on for some time would certainly be much
>>angrier than they man who was let down before any emotional attachments were
>>made.
>
>Led on for some time with no explanation of why it's not working is NOT
>right. That I agree with. But I don't think 2-3 dates is "some time".
>2-3 dates is barely scratching the surface of getting to know someone. You
>should not be putting in that much emotional investment in 2-3 dates.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE CAN FUCKING CONTROL!!!!!!!!!! I COULDN'T CONTROL PUTTING
TOO MUCH EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT EVEN ON ***NO*** DATES AT ALL!!!!!!!!
chris
Chris D
being approachable to women. You don't seem to have that much of a sense of
humor or light-hearted-ness. I might be wrong since I've never met you, but
it's something to consider. Women like a sense of humor (and understandably
so).
I was going to say something about myself in regards to that, but I've whined
enough about myself for now.
chris
Kim Johnson
S.Pickrell wrote in message <35C65BAD...@rma.edu>...
>Greetings,
>
>Kim Johnson wrote:
>
>> What do you do for fun? Are you involved in groups? sports?
>> theatre(as in amateur, not attending broadway shows)? If you sit
>> around all the time and just bemoan that you can't find a date, you
>> won't. Become interested in life and people become interested in you.
>
>conventions, but let's face it, not many women to be found there. Or
>maybe anime, comic book, or other stereotypically "male geek" dominated
>events. Friends can be made there, but not necessarily female friends.
Well, although I like ST, I only went to Panoptican conventions. And most
people don't only have one interest in life. My SO likes car races and is
in a gospel choir...neither of these interest me, but we do have other
interests(zoos, comedy clubs, museums, working out, computers, etc and so
on) that we do have together.
>
>Becoming interested in life and becoming involved with activities is NOT
>a guarantee of success with women. I wish people would stop implying
>that, because it is not true. It also takes a long time to work, if it
>is going to at all.
I don't know...it always works for women.
>
>Now, what I will say is this: having an active life will make you forget
>about not having a girlfriend more easily ... you will spend less time
>moping and more time doing something. But that does not necessarily lead
>to being more attractive to women. But you won't be complaining as much.
>
>> Ya know I could say the same about men.....haven't you ever heard the
>> jokes about, "I'll call ya" and no phone calls? It's better for you
>> to figure that this will happen, but doesn't necessarily mean all do
>> it.
>
>Oh, men treating women badly? That never happens!
>
>Oh wait, only the JerksWhoGetWomen do that. NiceGuysWhoWhine never do
>that.
>
>Here's a little piece of advice for you. Kate O'Beirne, National Review:
>"The only thing worse than a man who never asks for directions is a man
>who always asks for directions."
>
>> And here lies the problem--you are still a baby!!!! Go out and just
>> date, why worry about relationships? You don't even know yourself
>> yet!!!
>
>What do you mean by "just date?" Are you saying that if I like someone I
>go out on a date with, then I should go out with someone else just to
>maintain appearances?
I mean he seems to be looking for a long term relationship--go slower, meet
people...maybe just go out for pizza with a bunch of people...do you only
"date" someone if your engaged? I mean I've had first dates and no
others...I didn't take it personally from the man, why take it personally
from a woman? It's not like you have a lot at stake on just dating.....
>
>I don't understand here ... if you like someone enough and they like you
>in return, why not start a relationship? And then if you stay together
>long enough, get married ...
But not all "dates" are relationship making. If you stay together long
enough? Geez....he was worried about getting a second date...actually a
'hello'--so until he goes a little further, I don't think marriage is the
short term goal.
>
>> Anyway have you tried Classifieds2000? First of all, you can
>> set up the add anyway you want, no one will edit(unless lewd, I
>> guess).
>
>We have a winner. ;-) Other services allow you to post ads for free, but
>it costs $99.95 to answer ads for the space of one year. Go figure, and
>they don't have any more ads than Classifieds 2000.
That's where I met the guy I'm seeing....and he hasn't shown himself to be a
serial murderer...yet };->. And your right...there are a whole bunch of
fee-based ads, try C2000.
>
>> I can't see the thing with computers...geez I would think, especially
>> in LA, there would be alo of people who would enjoy that!
>
>I cannot either ... that woman needed to be reported to the Better
>Business Bureau.
>
>It depends. Are we talking about a Brentwood barfly (stereotypically
>speaking, of course) or a real woman, the sort that seems to exist
>everywhere, but only to those who want to look? Oh yes, I forgot, the
>Brentwood barfly (stereotypical) is tall, blond and has huge breasteses
>and nice legs. The real woman might be 5-10 pounds overweight or a bit
>shy, or in a wheelchair, or something like that.
>
>> Well, my degree is in computer science, guess I measure up--and my
>> daughter is in college for CS--wow 2 of us at once---how special. Of
>> course I bet you don't consider a nursing degree as one of the "hard
>> sciences", huh? Although it is nurses that usually teach the doctors
>> in the real world as opposed to academia.
>
>No, I am thinking of psychology, which at my college was 1/3 people
>really interested in it and 2/3 people who couldn't hack it in other
>majors. Every college has its easy majors, and I don't want to hear any
>psych majors telling me about how hard they had it. It is difficult to
>excel in any major. But some majors are easier to get by in than others.
>
>(BTW, I majored in mathematics and history, minoring in English
>literature and journalism.) Took upper-level Computer Science classes,
>too, including an assembly language class.
>
>The people really interested in it suffer b/c the courses have to be
>dumbed down for the people who couldn't hack it in other majors.
>
>> So you are basically shy? There are workshops that can be beneficial.
>> Also part of that just comes with age and experience. Did you go to
>> an all-boys school? I mean, I always had friends that were male...to
>> this day. Also, whether you can write poetry, you can know the
>> difference between e. e. cummings and Sylvia Plath; you may not be
>> able to paint, but you should be able to hold a conversation on
>> different styles of painting and different painters(Monet, Renoir and
>> Cezanne are all impressionists, Dali--surrealist)--same goes for
>> music. This doesn't mean you should know all of them, just what you
>> favor.
>
>A familiarity with current events, history, and a broad range of topics
>gives you a wider range of things to talk about.
>
>Yet, this is a double-edged sword. If you go out on a date with a woman
>that doesn't know or care about very much, you may wind up confusing
>them ... or not interesting them.
>
>But then again, why such a woman would be attractive is beyond me.
>
>I have been fortunate enough to meet someone (through the hotmail
>personals, no less) who *is* interested in a wide variety of topics and
>enjoys it when I read to her out of the paper over a meal. We have been
>able to inform each other on a wide variety of things.
>
>> Can't help you there....I'm tall for a woman and yes, I date over
>> 6'--otherwise we look silly.
>
>Says who? You?
Yep---and since this is my life, my opinion is important.
>
>*puzzled look on face*
>
>> But if you know that you have some "undesirable" qualities and you
>> don't want to do anything about them...well....I know this woman at
>> work...always complaining that she can't find a man. We have told her
>> to basically "clean up"(her hygiene could use some work---wrinkled
>> clothes, worn t-shirts cuz she's too 'poor' to buy new clothes but she
>> has enough money to eat out all the time---her priority, doesn't
>> always brush her hair!), but her attitude is they have to accept her
>> the way she is--needless to say what is attracted to her, she feels
>> isn't good enough--she wants Mel Gibson, but only gives a fake
>> Roseanne Barr in return--she has no one to blame but herself.
>
>Oh lemme guess, she has a # of guys she's turned down because they just
>"weren't right" for her. ;-)
Probably---I try to stay away from her....she's the type of person who
drains your energy if you let her....all I'm trying to say is that there are
many ways to help/hurt yourself in this area and there are many leeches in
society, both male and female, but when someone blames all others for the
problems in their life, they usually fall into the second category.
>
>Shawn Pickrell
>http://members.tripod.com/~sirshawn
S.Pickrell
Kim Johnson wrote:
> What do you do for fun? Are you involved in groups? sports?
> theatre(as in amateur, not attending broadway shows)? If you sit
> around all the time and just bemoan that you can't find a date, you
> won't. Become interested in life and people become interested in you.
Kim, not necessarily. For example, you might enjoy Star Trek
conventions, but let's face it, not many women to be found there. Or
maybe anime, comic book, or other stereotypically "male geek" dominated
events. Friends can be made there, but not necessarily female friends.
Becoming interested in life and becoming involved with activities is NOT
a guarantee of success with women. I wish people would stop implying
that, because it is not true. It also takes a long time to work, if it
is going to at all.
Now, what I will say is this: having an active life will make you forget
about not having a girlfriend more easily ... you will spend less time
moping and more time doing something. But that does not necessarily lead
to being more attractive to women. But you won't be complaining as much.
> Ya know I could say the same about men.....haven't you ever heard the
> jokes about, "I'll call ya" and no phone calls? It's better for you
> to figure that this will happen, but doesn't necessarily mean all do
> it.
Oh, men treating women badly? That never happens!
Oh wait, only the JerksWhoGetWomen do that. NiceGuysWhoWhine never do
that.
Here's a little piece of advice for you. Kate O'Beirne, National Review:
"The only thing worse than a man who never asks for directions is a man
who always asks for directions."
> And here lies the problem--you are still a baby!!!! Go out and just
> date, why worry about relationships? You don't even know yourself
> yet!!!
What do you mean by "just date?" Are you saying that if I like someone I
go out on a date with, then I should go out with someone else just to
maintain appearances?
I don't understand here ... if you like someone enough and they like you
in return, why not start a relationship? And then if you stay together
long enough, get married ...
> Anyway have you tried Classifieds2000? First of all, you can
> set up the add anyway you want, no one will edit(unless lewd, I
> guess).
We have a winner. ;-) Other services allow you to post ads for free, but
it costs $99.95 to answer ads for the space of one year. Go figure, and
they don't have any more ads than Classifieds 2000.
> I can't see the thing with computers...geez I would think, especially
> in LA, there would be alo of people who would enjoy that!
I cannot either ... that woman needed to be reported to the Better
Business Bureau.
It depends. Are we talking about a Brentwood barfly (stereotypically
speaking, of course) or a real woman, the sort that seems to exist
everywhere, but only to those who want to look? Oh yes, I forgot, the
Brentwood barfly (stereotypical) is tall, blond and has huge breasteses
and nice legs. The real woman might be 5-10 pounds overweight or a bit
shy, or in a wheelchair, or something like that.
> Well, my degree is in computer science, guess I measure up--and my
> daughter is in college for CS--wow 2 of us at once---how special. Of
> course I bet you don't consider a nursing degree as one of the "hard
> sciences", huh? Although it is nurses that usually teach the doctors
> in the real world as opposed to academia.
No, I am thinking of psychology, which at my college was 1/3 people
really interested in it and 2/3 people who couldn't hack it in other
majors. Every college has its easy majors, and I don't want to hear any
psych majors telling me about how hard they had it. It is difficult to
excel in any major. But some majors are easier to get by in than others.
(BTW, I majored in mathematics and history, minoring in English
literature and journalism.) Took upper-level Computer Science classes,
too, including an assembly language class.
The people really interested in it suffer b/c the courses have to be
dumbed down for the people who couldn't hack it in other majors.
> So you are basically shy? There are workshops that can be beneficial.
> Also part of that just comes with age and experience. Did you go to
> an all-boys school? I mean, I always had friends that were male...to
> this day. Also, whether you can write poetry, you can know the
> difference between e. e. cummings and Sylvia Plath; you may not be
> able to paint, but you should be able to hold a conversation on
> different styles of painting and different painters(Monet, Renoir and
> Cezanne are all impressionists, Dali--surrealist)--same goes for
> music. This doesn't mean you should know all of them, just what you
> favor.
A familiarity with current events, history, and a broad range of topics
gives you a wider range of things to talk about.
Yet, this is a double-edged sword. If you go out on a date with a woman
that doesn't know or care about very much, you may wind up confusing
them ... or not interesting them.
But then again, why such a woman would be attractive is beyond me.
I have been fortunate enough to meet someone (through the hotmail
personals, no less) who *is* interested in a wide variety of topics and
enjoys it when I read to her out of the paper over a meal. We have been
able to inform each other on a wide variety of things.
> Can't help you there....I'm tall for a woman and yes, I date over
> 6'--otherwise we look silly.
Says who? You?
*puzzled look on face*
> But if you know that you have some "undesirable" qualities and you
> don't want to do anything about them...well....I know this woman at
> work...always complaining that she can't find a man. We have told her
> to basically "clean up"(her hygiene could use some work---wrinkled
> clothes, worn t-shirts cuz she's too 'poor' to buy new clothes but she
> has enough money to eat out all the time---her priority, doesn't
> always brush her hair!), but her attitude is they have to accept her
> the way she is--needless to say what is attracted to her, she feels
> isn't good enough--she wants Mel Gibson, but only gives a fake
> Roseanne Barr in return--she has no one to blame but herself.
Oh lemme guess, she has a # of guys she's turned down because they just
"weren't right" for her. ;-)
Shawn Pickrell
http://members.tripod.com/~sirshawn
ter...@nospam.com
Why shouldn't you hate women? The reason you shouldn't is because
there is someone out there for you. The thing is, you have to wait
and look for the perfect one. You can't put all women in the same
mold. Once you find the one for you, I promise you that you won't
feel the way that you do right now. The world is full of caring
women, you just haven't found the right one for you yet. Don't give
up, keep looking. I promise you you WILL find the one for you. I
know I felt the same way about men, but I FINALLY found the love of my
life, and you can too.
>Why shouldn't I hate women?
>
GeeK-A-Boo
:Clambers
Hi. I read your post and I am a 26 year old female from NJ. I recently
posted something similar about my problems with my boyfriend, which
somewhat relates to your feelings about women.
:Why shouldn't I hate women?
I don't think you *hate* women, but you are definitly hurt and
tramatized by your experiences, and your anger and frustration is
exibited in many different ways in your adulthood now.
:
: Hey, I started out honest and innocent, giving everyone the benefit
:of the doubt, but women have made it clear to me that *they* don't want
:anything to do with me.
My boyfriend feels the same way, as he has had some similar
experiences. Rejection hurts...very bad in fact. I am a woman, a very
attractive one, and I have had hard times making friendships with
females. I have absolutly no female friends. I relate to men easier
than females. I think sometimes part of my problems with girls is
that I make a lot of sexual comments. Not like a truck driver girl,
per say, but I think women are turned off by that....
What did it get me? Lots of male friends, yet women who were too
:repulsed by me to even make eye contact.
Just like my boyfriend... he has always been overweight, and the
intellectual type where he was very involved with computers, BBS,
Unix, Linux, ham radio, computer games... ect.... He was always
trying to get dates but it was not working for him. Even today, when
he walks down into time square to go to work, he stares at women in
skirts and heels... like the are objects;toys. He does not want to
know anything about them, just imagine them in bondage and gagged.
He really has a hatred for women because he never got the attention
that he thought he deserved. He is almost 'getting back' at women in
his mind when he thinks of women as objects for use and submission.
I have been with my BF for over 3 years. I am extremely attractive,
(I just gained some weight though) and I have always loved geekie
guys. I started going out with him when he didn't have a job for a
couple of months. I did not care because I love to have stimulating
conversation and learning about different OS's and Networking
platforms. I love sitting home playing Quake (my favorite game)
I am hoping to learn the skills needed to get into the game
development industry. I have gone out with 'pretty boys' in their
corvette status cars, going to all the cool clubs... and I would
rather sit home and read PC week and ask my BF questions about certain
issues that I am not familiar with. BTW my BF is at least 100 pounds
overweight and I find him extremely sexy because of his intelligence,
and the way he puts me in bondage is a perk too.
:
: In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
:want to go out and do something sometime.... Each one has told me no in some
:way or another.
One thing that is really important, and I am probably telling you
something you already know, is that if you have something strongly in
common with the person, it really helps to bond both of you together.
Clubs and bars you can forget about. Special interest groups for
hobbies, like computers... programmer meetings, regular seminars,
any hobbies you may have, they will probably have groups that meet
regurly. Just like AA groups and NA groups, they all have something
in common.
Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
:(they don't like my dietary preferences,
What *are* your diatary preferances??
or hobbies,
What are your hobbies?
found new mystery men
yes, I know, that sucks....
:
No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
:real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
:money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
Yes. That is the symptoms of the dating scene. Believe me, you are
not the only case that people chicken out to tell the truth why they
want to call it quits. It really sucks. But if someone starts out
not being open and honest about why they want to break it off with
you, well then you shouldn't be with them in the first place.
Don't go to go-go bars and spend all your money on those dirty tramps,
for a cheap thrill because you are sexually frustrated because they
*will* definitly take your money and not give you what you are looking
for.
:
: I've joined clubs, put out personal adds, hung out at social events, and with
:no result.
Yup. I was a member of Gold's gym and I just met pumped up steriod
head monstors whom I had nothing in common with. If excersize is not
a lifestyle for you, then you won't be able to relate to people.
These people at the gym have made a lifestyle choice and are totally
dedicated to working out.
Typically, women try hard not even to make eye contact with me....
My boyfriend often says that also. He feels invisible. I know he
tells me these things because he is honest with me, and I am glad, but
it hurts me to think that he needs more... or he needs other women's
attention. I give him so much attention, but because he was never
with anybody else in his life, i think he feels like he needs to feel
like he can attract others.
I am a little sad in a way that he wants other women to pay attention
to him.
:Often I even have a pertinent reason to speak with a woman ("hey, you dropped
:your wallet") and she will try to ignore me,. act like I'm trying to 'hit on'
:her.
Yes. There are a lot of women who are just *not* willing to believe
that a man could be just *nice* without hitting on them. When you see
that, that means that whatever woman behaves as if you are invading
their personal space when you do somethimg nice, that woman probably
has *her* own issues towards men.
:
: What annoys me.... women who aren't interested in me
They will 'put up' with you for 2, say 3 dates
:then suddenly tell you that they don't want to see you again, that they were
:just being 'nice' all along.
Yes. People can be very cruel. Sometimes they don't mean to be cruel
or rude, but the women themselves who make obscure, and vague excuses
as to why they want to break it off, they probably do not know what
they want themselves, or is just playing in the dating game tryig to
click with the right personality type. I believe honesty goes a long
way. If I don't like you because of your bad haitosis, I will tell
you to go something about it. I am not going to give you an excuse
that "I just want to be friends". I do have to say that this happens
to both genders.
Sometimes they even get nasty for no good
:reason,
Sometimes when you don' understand why women are being nasty to you,
is probably because they have been holding something back from you.
Their nastiness may be perfectably reasonalble to *her* but you are
left confused because you are missing information that she may or may
not have conveyed to you. When someone is nasty for no apparent
reason, it is time to talk about the *sourse* of the problem.
and almost always they try to turn it around and blame you for
:something or another.
Some people have a tendency to be 'blamers' I cannot elaborate
because it *does* depend on the situation at hand. Its all about
communication. If the data integrity between two people has been
corupted in some way, data packets will be dropped and you will be
functioning with corrupted and incomplete, and buggy files.
Communication is a Network.
:MONEY BY BEING HONEST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
*agreed!!!!*
:
: But I'm sure that the women who are reading this simply don't care,
I care about your post because the person behind the screen writing in
ASCII is deeply hurt by many people and has had some bad experiences.
:because, they are heartless. They have no emotions except for the desire to
:take men's money, and a fury at how they are being 'oppressed' by males.
That type of female's you have encountered unfortunatly has given you
that impresson. There is no need for more judgement and labels in
this world. You feel women have been judging you in error, don't make
the same mistake as the other women who were foolish enough to judge
*you*. As a women myself, I love to be with an intellectual man that
I will enjoy stimulating conversation, joking around, having things in
common, and lots of sex. I think what makes a man sexy is his
intelligence. I have mostly gone out with guys that pretty much have
been overweight, geekie, freaky (i love that)
There are women who feel secure with the success and status of a man.
There is no question about that.
:It's fashionable to hate men these days,
* I personally hate it when I hear a female say, "I can't stand men
sometimes"*
I absolutly adore men. I will serve any geekie computer nut his jolt
cola on my knees in a black, tight rubber suit with a gag in my mouth
and love every minute of it because I am pleasing him.
But I do go both ways... I like guys to do what I like sometimes
too...but thats another story.
In fact, most men I know are the friendly quiet
:type
I love the quiet ones..... they are usually the most interesting...
:being treated like the 'princess',
I wish I could be treated like a princess, and my idea of that is if
you attach leather wrist and ankle cuffs onto my body and make me
squirm to try to release myslf from my bonds.....
a hood would also be in order
but I don't get enough of tha unfortunatly.
:realize that many women are slightly lazy and not so bright.
I think women and men are both bright, but in different ways. I mean
there are the retards.... but you have to remember that both genders
have different thought patterns.
Also, I sincerley believe that as human beings, we have not fully
excersized our brain musles enough because of the menial tasks and
laboring we do to maintain our enviornment. Bill Gates Mission
Statement: "A computer on every desktop" Jennifer's Vision Statement:
(me) "An Android in every houshold" The time that is wasted cutting
lawns, doing makeup, cleaning house, laboring, maintence, commuting,
shopping,picking out outfits (girls take a while to do that)
restarting windoze when it crashes, cooking dinner,making beds,
GUI interfaces with mouse clicks,... et al... the list goes on...
Come on, its the 90's we have robotic technology, use that technology
to better ourselves and the planet. Lets start becoming post-human,
and later on developing into transhumans. All these tasks at this
present day can be accomplished by simple programmed robotic
technology. Lets use this time to develop our brains to use more of
its capacity. Some girls may not be as intelligent beacsue they spend
too much time socializing/makeup/shopping/nails/hair/ ect.
Men don't need all that prepping.
I can see where you are coming from. I don't want to see your learned
bitterness take away from the *real* caring person that you may be.
Its hard not letting these past experiences affect your opinions, but
it may be important to step outside yourself, and focus on your own
desires at this point, being able to enjoy your life doing what you
take pleasure in doing, and the positiveness will radiate from you.
Sometimes when you don't look for something, you may find it..
Jenny =-)
___________________________________________________________
Sliding Like A Whisper Through The Databases..........
___________________________________________________________
brian
this,
STOP! You are right about life being hard, but I have the same problem as
you. even though
I don't get the ladies, I still go up to them. its fun once you have gotten
used to rejection.
here is a line that you might want to use . "I am sorry that you don't WANT
TO TALK, with me I find that really dissapointing. Have a nice life. " For
me I think up things to say and say them I don't care if they don't like it
becuase I will never see them again. I know you are into computers and so
am I. Can you recall what it felt like when you solved some really difficult
C++ code problem. The feeling of that great accomplishment, Now, that
feeling translates into a mindset that you can do anything, to the point
where you imagine yourself on the top of the world screaming " I am great!".
A person can find out that great accomplishments in one area translate to
another. Dating... for me is no big deal I don't care if I ever find a woman
becuase the chase is often a very big thrill. As you think about this post
more the more you will become aware of the fact that one shouldn't get
worked up over... women. And you DON'T have to remember that you must
change for change.
--Brian
je...@exoticomm.com
>>efforts wiAh blandness. fizzle.
>That's probably why no female has ever been interested in me. Because
of
>exactly what you say. Forgive me for being blunt, and it's not your
fault,
>but, THIS REALLY FUCKING PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well my my
forgive women for wanting somthing other then a wall to talk to.
geez if you have NOTHEN going for you that must be what you are.
>I am probably just like you describe above (actually I'm
>probably MUCH FUCKING WORSE THAN THAT EVEN BECAUSE I CAN'T
> LEARN TO DANCE WORTH SHIT THE SAME WAY I CAN'T LEARN TO PLAY
>AN INSTRUMENT BECAUSE MY MIND ALWAYS GETS CONFUSED.) But
>assuming I had the skill to learn to dance at all, I would
>have a problem making more... "forceful" movements so that
>she knew what I was trying to signal (i.e. turn here, turn
>there, whatever.) And actually, I CAN just go ahead and be
>forceful, but I can't do it in a graceful and diplomatic
>enough a way and therefore my movements simply seem rude
>and crude. SO I'M FORCED TO BE SO GENTLE AS TO FUCKING BE
>BLAND BECAUSE WHEN I'M NOT BLAND OR WHATEVER IT SEEMS RUDE
>AND CLUMSY AND IDIOTIC!!!!!!!!!!!
Danceing ,Instruments , what are you talking about .. I don't
know about everyone else out there but all the 17 women I know
and 20 men <not counting self and partner here> I know say this
THAT has nothen to do with what they look for in a partner so you
can't dance can't sing ,can't play an instrument geez if this was
what we looked for I now my SO wouldn't have had any DATES whats
so ever.
>THIS WHOLE THING ALL TIES INTO MY LACK OF COORDINATION,
> WHICH I **CANNOT** CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF I COULD
> CHANGE IT, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHANGED A LONG FUCKING TIME
> AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO is has to do with YOU not what you can do or can't do.
AND by the way YOU don't sound like a "NICE" GUY to me
you sound like someone that profess <sp> to much ..
A saying my granny useto use " He who speaks hard of what he
is, is seldom what he speaks " you understand that ?
let me put it this way YOUR trying alfully hard to get people
to belive your such a "NICE" guy yet not one thing in here tells
anyone that you ARE a "NICE" guy .. Rude very seldom fits the
"NICE GUY" outlook.
>>No. Not the assumption that all men are violent. The assumption that
a
>>"nice guy" will crumble and perhaps lay a guilt trip on me. Remember,
it's
>>been a real battle for me to say no to anyone. Years back, the only
people
>>I could say no to were those who were very obviously abusive.
>AND THAT'S THE MAJOR REASON WHY NICE GUYS NEVER GET A DATE!!!! I
>GUESS I GOTTA LEARN TO BE RUDE AND FORCEFUL AND INSENSITIVE SO
>THAT SHE DOESN'T RISK FEELING GUILTY IF SHE FEELS LIKE DOING
>SOMETHING THAT ISN'T KIND!!!!! AND BELIEVE ME I REALLY BELIEVE
>I NEED TO LEARN TO DO THAT! I JUST CAN'T BECAUSE I'M TOO
>FUCKING SOCIALLY CLUMSY!!!!!!!!!
No you Have to stop trying to get people to pity you .
Because that is what your trying for here .
OH SAD IS I , I CAN'T GET A DATE , I AM TO NICE, PLEASE LIKE MY
NICENESS, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY, I JUST WANT
YOU TO PITY ME AND FEEL SORRY FOR ME, I FEEL SO SORRY FOR MYSELF,
JOIN ME IN MY SELF PITY. I AM SO SOCIALLY CLUMSY YOU MUST PITY ME!
>THE ONLY REASON GUYS BECOME NICE IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING
>ELSE GOING FOR THEM THAT WOULD ATTRACT A FEMALE!!!! THEY DON'T
>HAVE THE FUCKING SUAVENESS OR ANY OF THAT SHIT!!!! THEY ARE
>CLUMSY!!!! AND SO ANYTHING THEY DO THAT'S NOT TIMID OR GENTLE
>COMES OFF AS RUDE OR MEAN OR POSSIBLY EVEN "SCARE THE SHIT OUT
>OF YOU!!" FORGIVE ME FOR SHOUTING IT'S JUST MY OWN FUCKING
S AND FRUSTRATION!!! PUT UP WITH IT OR DON'T READ!!!!
You said it YOUR WEAKNESS ! Can't you fix it ? no you can't
becuse you don't want to you just want some poor women to PITY
you and feel sorry for you .
>BUT HELL I'M THE SAME FUCKING WAY!!!! THIS MORNING I
>"DREAMED ABOUT" A "BAD" GIRL!!!! (not anybody in this
>group though, it was someone I haven't seen in over 10
>years, since 8th grade... she's probably a 24-year-old
>mom by now who has herpes and shit but I didn't think
>about that. she was a deviant and probably sexually
>promiscuous back in 8th grade, and um, she was also the
>only person ever to give me a valentine gram, ever,
>in any school).
This says alot about your out look on things as a whole.
oh how you may ask ? Well lets see you would rather think that
the only girl to give you a valentine <as you put it> was a
"mom with herpes and shit " <QUOTE> then maybe someone who
is /was a careing person ?? you say she probably was secually
promiscuouse ? you don't know ? but you would rather think she
was then to think she may have had a real interest in YOU?
IMHO it's not your <proclamed> "NICENESS" that run women off
as much as it _IS_ you self pity that does it.
>In any case, the only reason we're nice guys probably is that
>we have nothing else going for us. If we had anything else
>that might attract a female we wouldn't need to be all that
>nice, respectful maybe, but not "nice" or timid or gentle or
>anything like that.
NO you just belive you have nothing else going for YOU most
nice guy don't belive this <by the way I know quit a few nice
guys have even dated a few in my time >
>>It wasn't a matter of being self-absorbed or cruel. Not for
>>me it wasn't. FOR ME (I don't know about other women), I did
>>not really know what my rights were. I felt like I was an
>>evil person for not liking everyone in the whole world.
>>I really did.
>I FEEL GUILTY FOR NOT LIKING EVERY NICE PERSON IN THE WORLD
>TOO!!! IT'S NORMAL!!!!
It's normal but self hate isn't .. please seek help.
>Any kind of assertiveness that I was born with was systematically
stamped
>out. I had to learn it the hard way.
>>upset th[A lest they kill us as they are apt to do'. Not to mention
that
>>even under that assumption, it is still plainly a stupid thing to do-
the man
>>who is dropped after being let on for some time would certainly be
much
>>angrier than they man who was let down before any emotional
attachments were
>>made.
>
>>Led on for some time with no explanation of why it's not working is
NOT
>>right. That I agree with. But I don't think 2-3 dates is "some
time".
>>2-3 dates is barely scratching the surface of getting to know someone.
You
>>should not be putting in that much emotional investment in 2-3 dates.
>..IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE CAN FUCKING CONTROL!!!!!!!!!! I COULDN'T
>CONTROL PUTTING TOO MUCH EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT EVEN ON ***NO***
>DATES AT ALL!!!!!!!!
Ya but your self pity is something you can control and not try to
push onto others ..
>chris
I don't know what others think .. and I don't know what a Trool is
but I can say what I think of this thread of post so for ..
this guy comes in asking for help and everytime someone has tryed to
be truthful and try to help he has shot it down and then posted more
"This is what I can't change,I am nothens" other wise known as self
pitying remarks trying to get others to post more and then given him the
OP. to post more self pity If this is how he goes into any partnership
no wonder he can't find a date .. No body wants to be drug down by
someone who has such a low self . This is not a tipucal <SP> NICE GUY
thing this is a tipucal pity me feel sorry for me thing .
I am sorry if this was harsh and a little unncalled for .
but when reading this My grannys saying came to me with a flash ..
"He who speaks hard of what he is , is seldom what he speaks" and he
keeps saying how he is a "NICE GUY" it made me wonder.
Jekyl
It's not easy being what you want me to be .....so I'll just be me !
Ray Gordon
>Kim, not necessarily. For example, you might enjoy Star Trek
>conventions, but let's face it, not many women to be found there. Or
>maybe anime, comic book, or other stereotypically "male geek" dominated
>events. Friends can be made there, but not necessarily female friends.
Well, although I like ST, I only went to Panoptican conventions. And
most
people don't only have one interest in life. My SO likes car races and
is
in a gospel choir...neither of these interest me, but we do have other
interests(zoos, comedy clubs, museums, working out, computers, etc and so
on) that we do have together.
<----I used to pick up women at CHESS TOURNAMENTS, which were usually
held in hotels, sometimes sharing the place with beauty contests, etc.
The bars always had tons of women. You have to be creative and take the
time to find where the women are if you are going to have a chance of
scoring with them. But why should a guy even do this if he can meet
women over the computer without the inherent risks?
>Becoming interested in life and becoming involved with activities is NOT
>a guarantee of success with women. I wish people would stop implying
>that, because it is not true. It also takes a long time to work, if it
>is going to at all.
I don't know...it always works for women.
<---Does it? For UGLY women that won't work; for SEXY women it "works"
but yields men who are opportunistic and predatory and who approach women
under pretext. Despite all the bad press they get, bars and parties and
coffeehouses and the beach are still the best places for women to meet
men.
>
>Now, what I will say is this: having an active life will make you forget
>about not having a girlfriend more easily ... you will spend less time
>moping and more time doing something. But that does not necessarily lead
>to being more attractive to women. But you won't be complaining as much.
>
>> Ya know I could say the same about men.....haven't you ever heard the
>> jokes about, "I'll call ya" and no phone calls? It's better for you
>> to figure that this will happen, but doesn't necessarily mean all do
>> it.
>
>Oh, men treating women badly? That never happens!
>
>Oh wait, only the JerksWhoGetWomen do that. NiceGuysWhoWhine never do
>that.
>
>Here's a little piece of advice for you. Kate O'Beirne, National Review:
>"The only thing worse than a man who never asks for directions is a man
>who always asks for directions."
>
>> And here lies the problem--you are still a baby!!!! Go out and just
>> date, why worry about relationships? You don't even know yourself
>> yet!!!
>
>What do you mean by "just date?" Are you saying that if I like someone I
>go out on a date with, then I should go out with someone else just to
>maintain appearances?
I mean he seems to be looking for a long term relationship--go slower,
meet
people...maybe just go out for pizza with a bunch of people...do you only
"date" someone if your engaged? I mean I've had first dates and no
others...I didn't take it personally from the man, why take it personally
from a woman? It's not like you have a lot at stake on just dating.....
<----------The trick is to pursue MANY women at each level: approach
MANY, talk to MANY, pursue MANY, date MANY. That way if you lose a few
you won't care. It's the best way for a man to keep his distance from
any one particular woman.
>
>I don't understand here ... if you like someone enough and they like you
>in return, why not start a relationship? And then if you stay together
>long enough, get married ...
But not all "dates" are relationship making. If you stay together long
enough? Geez....he was worried about getting a second date...actually a
'hello'--so until he goes a little further, I don't think marriage is the
short term goal.
<---------Seduction is the ideal goal for a man to have. If he can
seduce women, he can get a relationship from one.
>> Anyway have you tried Classifieds2000? First of all, you can
>> set up the add anyway you want, no one will edit(unless lewd, I
>> guess).
>
>We have a winner. ;-) Other services allow you to post ads for free, but
>it costs $99.95 to answer ads for the space of one year. Go figure, and
>they don't have any more ads than Classifieds 2000.
That's where I met the guy I'm seeing....and he hasn't shown himself to
be a
serial murderer...yet };->. And your right...there are a whole bunch of
fee-based ads, try C2000.
<-------Personals are the WORST places to hook up, unless you are willing
to permanently reduce your expectations.
Yep---and since this is my life, my opinion is important.
<----Judging a man on the basis of height is STUPID. It will lead to bad
choices. You also rule out 85 percent of men with that requirement.
>
>*puzzled look on face*
>
>> But if you know that you have some "undesirable" qualities and you
>> don't want to do anything about them...well....I know this woman at
>> work...always complaining that she can't find a man. We have told her
>> to basically "clean up"(her hygiene could use some work---wrinkled
>> clothes, worn t-shirts cuz she's too 'poor' to buy new clothes but she
>> has enough money to eat out all the time---her priority, doesn't
>> always brush her hair!), but her attitude is they have to accept her
>> the way she is--needless to say what is attracted to her, she feels
>> isn't good enough--she wants Mel Gibson, but only gives a fake
>> Roseanne Barr in return--she has no one to blame but herself.
>
>Oh lemme guess, she has a # of guys she's turned down because they just
>"weren't right" for her. ;-)
Probably---I try to stay away from her....she's the type of person who
drains your energy if you let her....all I'm trying to say is that there
are
many ways to help/hurt yourself in this area and there are many leeches
in
society, both male and female, but when someone blames all others for the
problems in their life, they usually fall into the second category.
<----------With the number of people out there CAUSING problems, blame is
often justified. Of course the victimizers are not going to legitimize
their victims. The problem isn't that Lucy pulls the football away from
Charlie Brown, but rather that he tries to kick it or complains when it
is pulled away from him.
Chris D
Geek-...@gEEk.org (GeeK-A-Boo) wrote:
>My boyfriend feels the same way, as he has had some similar
>experiences. Rejection hurts...very bad in fact. I am a woman, a very
>attractive one, and I have had hard times making friendships with
>females. I have absolutly no female friends. I relate to men easier
>than females. I think sometimes part of my problems with girls is
>that I make a lot of sexual comments. Not like a truck driver girl,
>per say, but I think women are turned off by that....
And also it might be because, from what I've read of your posts, that you don't
seem to think very highly of other women. that might rub off on other women and
that may be why you don't have too many female friends.
For Clambers though, this is overall a very nice, supportive, helpful response
that will hopefully help him a great deal. (doesn't do much for me but then
nothing does because there is no hope for me.)
> Typically, women try hard not even to make eye contact with me....
>
>My boyfriend often says that also. He feels invisible. I know he
>tells me these things because he is honest with me, and I am glad, but
>it hurts me to think that he needs more... or he needs other women's
>attention. I give him so much attention, but because he was never
>with anybody else in his life, i think he feels like he needs to feel
>like he can attract others.
>I am a little sad in a way that he wants other women to pay attention
>to him.
really? if i knew someone like you i probably wouldn't care in the least if i
attracted anyone else or not.
>Yes. There are a lot of women who are just *not* willing to believe
>that a man could be just *nice* without hitting on them.
Yes, that actually seems very common. But then I sometimes wonder, maybe men
really *are* only nice when they're trying to hit on someone (except for me of
course, I'm nice to everybody in real life, including men and women I'm not the
least bit attracted to. In fact, I'm probably actually nicer to them than I am
to women I am attracted to.)
>Jenny =-)
>
>
>___________________________________________________________
> Sliding Like A Whisper Through The Databases..........
>___________________________________________________________
Chris DuBose - truth-seeker, outspoken advocate for lonely hearts, and
computer science graduate of Cal Poly Pomona
email: cdu...@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~cdubose
Fan of Queen, Daria, Angband, Star Trek, Seattle, and Torey Hayden
"If you're feeling kinda nothing, don't try so hard" - Queen - Innuendo
anonymous
wrote:
>hey
>most of the men i have met have raped me.
MOST ?????? No shit... Lucky you didnt say "ALL"
>does that mean all men are rapists?
>
>
Rune
Sense of humor is the MOST important thing to me when choosing a partner. I
never actually fall in love unless I have been laughed into it. (just a
pattern I've noticed about myself, guys).
seriously, if I share a sense of humor with someone, it connects me in a way
that nothing else can do. that goes for friends too...but not nearly as
much. and please, don't go to "stand-up" comedian classes in the hopes
you'll meet women...it doesn't work that way. it is much more about meeting
someone that laughs at the same things, that may share that sense of the
bizzare that you have...all that stuff.
you don't have to be Seinfeld (or Uncle Miltie, depending on your
generation - um, Carrot Top?) to find a good candidate for
dating/relationships. All you need to do is learn what you enjoy, then set
about doing it...she will show up. I promise.
I never believed it myself...but fate plays funny tricks. OH - and don't
forget to pay attention! Notice the girl that laughs with you. She's the
one you shouldn't dismiss immediately.
rune - in a somewhat better mood - but still waiting for the apology from
mr. misogynous
updated website
http://members.tripod.com/~runechord
ru...@mediaoneSPAM.net
behind my bolt locked doors, the eagle & the serpent are at war in me
the serpent fighting for blind desire, the eagle for clarity
Joni Mitchell - 1977
Chris D wrote in message <35c634d4...@news.mindspring.com>...
Chris D
kkv...@hotmail.com
I know the feelings you have. You have my sympathy.
I’ve gone through much similar experiences. But I’m not as bitter - at least
on general background. I was very fortunate to meet one woman, she was
very kind - she rejected me!
No, was that kind ? you may ask.
Yes, because as she did that, she also gave an honest attempt to explain to
me what was wrong with me. Towards many of the other women who were not
explaining plain out what they felt was wrong with me, I feel only anger!
Especially if you asked for an opinion, and still they would not give you
one! Pathetic bitches! of course you hate them! They are destroying you!
All women are not such fortunately. I also have other female friends I talk to
which helps me on my way to improve myself, (but just as important are my male
friends)
One thing struck while reading this thread, though. There is not much
description of yourself! How should we know what is wrong in your approach
with women when you tell us so little about yourself and your encounters with
women? (In real life we could very easily determine this while looking at
your behavior, appearance, the way you talk with them) Remember there are
lots of convicts, drug abusers, drop outs, short guys etc. that has lots of
women, They generally have something to them, (and thats not money and
height)
Ray Gordon
Gotta add a big OH YEAH...right here.
Sense of humor is the MOST important thing to me when choosing a partner.
I
never actually fall in love unless I have been laughed into it. (just a
pattern I've noticed about myself, guys).
<-----Every player I have ever known has used humor to bond with women.
And down the road women dump them because they are still cracking jokes
when it's time to get serious. The man who goes out of his way to laugh
with a woman is just using a seduction technique. Women are idiots if
they don't see this and even bigger idiots if they select their lovers on
this basis.
seriously, if I share a sense of humor with someone, it connects me in a
way
that nothing else can do. that goes for friends too...but not nearly as
much. and please, don't go to "stand-up" comedian classes in the hopes
you'll meet women...it doesn't work that way. it is much more about
meeting
someone that laughs at the same things, that may share that sense of the
bizzare that you have...all that stuff.
<--------This is called "mirroring" and if you see a guy doing this to
you, you couldn't be picking more wrong.
you don't have to be Seinfeld (or Uncle Miltie, depending on your
generation - um, Carrot Top?) to find a good candidate for
dating/relationships. All you need to do is learn what you enjoy, then
set
about doing it...she will show up. I promise.
<------------Does that promise come with a lifetime guarantee? If she
doesn't show up, will you take her place? Stop the platitudes please....
I never believed it myself...but fate plays funny tricks. OH - and don't
forget to pay attention! Notice the girl that laughs with you. She's
the
one you shouldn't dismiss immediately.
<---------Bonds of laughter are the most shallow and the most
superficial. So typical of women to make lifetime decisions on the basis
of a few laughs.
rune - in a somewhat better mood - but still waiting for the apology from
mr. misogynous
<---------Hey Ms. ILLITERATE, the correct spelling is "misogynist."
Andrew Blake
Your b/f is one lucky guy.
As for the mating game, been there done that, rejections, successes. Lots of
knock backs cos I am 5' 5'. i got lucky once and it only has to be one day
when you meet someone you can do business with. So I am happlily partnered 8
years later and retired from the game. Why do I say do business? Well
there's stuff that we need to do for eachother and there is stuff we need
from eachother.
As for your b/f wanting other women, you girls never get it. Its hard wired
in, its the hardware(pun unintended) and its the life we never can live
ourselves. The unknown girl on the street. She is beautiful, a symbol of
nurturing, a life of the feelings so hard for guys in this civilisation to
live that we project it all on to HER so she floats magically before our
eyes promising all but never existing in reality. So there is so much rage
and pain because she does not exist, in reality she has her own agenda. So
the she of our imaginations disappears into the depths of cyberspace where
there are no rules other than ther total surrender to our imagination. HER
torture in cyberspace is our(male) torture in not living half of our lives.
Sometimes she comes as the succubus and lures me down the spiral into self
destruction and depression . . . ... but that is another story.
I love you all.
Andrew Blake an occasional poster.
GeeK-A-Boo wrote in message <35c67682...@news.mindspring.com>...
>Proud misogynist
>:Clambers
>
>Hi. I read your post and I am a 26 year old female from NJ. I recently
>posted something similar about my problems with my boyfriend, which
>somewhat relates to your feelings about women.
---snipped----
t...@delphi.com
>Why shouldn't you hate women? The reason you shouldn't is because
>there is someone out there for you. The thing is, you have to wait
>and look for the perfect one. You can't put all women in the same
>mold. Once you find the one for you, I promise you that you won't
>feel the way that you do right now. The world is full of caring
>women, you just haven't found the right one for you yet. Don't give
>up, keep looking. I promise you you WILL find the one for you. I
>know I felt the same way about men, but I FINALLY found the love of my
>life, and you can too.
promise. Or what if he wants kids, but doesn't meet the fabled "right one"
until she's past menopause.
What do you tell him then? Better luck next life?
Women just don't get it, do they?
DB
Jeffrey Karp
GeeK-A-Boo wrote:
Many women DO dress like too provocatively. I laugh when I see a womandressed in skimpy
clothing who gets angry when men stare at her. It
is her choice to dress this way, and by doing so, she is inviting this
type of attention. Perhaps her anger is just an act, or she is not very
intelligent. If a woman wants to be taken seriously, and not viewed
as a sex object, then she should dress appropriately. I was at a
singles event where a woman in her early 30s was walking around
with a large amount of cleavage showing. All the men walked past
her and stared, however no one stopped to talk to her very long.
After all, they had trouble taking their eyes off her chest. After many
of the men walked away, they were laughing. Someone should
have tried to explain to her that this is not the appropriate way
to attract a decent guy(She may be a great woman, however
many men would not even approach her after seeing her dressed
so inappropriately. She was attractive, however many men who
were there just thought her behavior was too strange(perhaps
she thinks that men ARE so shallow, or all that she has to offer
a man is her body?)
Ray Gordon
<----Actually MEN don't get it. Women don't find their true love either
all the time -- mostly when their bodies don't attract males. But you
don't lose sleep over these women do you? Exactly. These women are the
same way. But since men are going to ask for advice, the women are not
going to be honest and say "Sorry, you're not worthy" so they think they
are doing men a favor by spouting platitudes. Men are fools for asking
women for advice on seduction in the first place.
Has any man ever gotten laid by a woman he asked for seduction advice
from?
GeeK-A-Boo
Hi...
:I don't get the ladies, I still go up to them.
Good for you, Brian.... If you came up to me as a stranger, I would
take it as a compliment.
its fun once you have gotten
:used to rejection.
Well, I don't think you really *feel* like rejection is fun. You are
just responding to the situation with your defense mechanisms.
But those defenses *do* work, and if you get a positive result from
your defenses, by all means keep thinking that way.
"I am sorry that you don't WANT
:TO TALK, with me I find that really dissapointing. Have a nice life. "
Good advise there. You could leave out the sarcasm of saying, "Have a
nice life" If you were to say that, a girl would get even more
defensive. Be better than that, and just *think* "have a nice life,
Bitch" to justify your rejection mentally.
For
:me I think up things to say and say them I don't care if they don't like it
:becuase I will never see them again.
If women give you that attitude in the first place, they are not worth
your effort or time, and eventually *your* money.
I know you are into computers and so
:am I. Can you recall what it felt like when you solved some really difficult
:C++ code problem.
God, I have a BF who is a Senior Informations Technology Network
Admin. I happen to love learning about different aspects of
networking, game leveling, game development... and if I met one of you
guys on the street...and I knew you guys were coders....I would be
thrilled to go out and do coffee, and hopefully learn a thing or two
about C/C++. I am in the middle of changing careers, and I want to
learn C. I happen to find geekie guys very sexy and intelligent.
When I say geekie, I mean that as a compliment to your intellectual
abilities. Its sheek to be geek these days.... *smirk*
Dating... for me is no big deal I don't care if I ever find a woman
:becuase the chase is often a very big thrill.
You know, here is one of my issues. As a girl, I am very pretty, and
I am pretty open and honest. Maybe a bit too blunt at times. I might
be just a little *too* overly friendly, but that is just my nature.
I may not give the guys a chance to *feel* the challenge of aquiring
me... you know what I mean? Some people tell me that I have to learn
how to be more of a Bitch... but only a bitch to a point, where a guy
could actually *want* me even more because I may be somewhat
unattainable. I really don't know how to draw that fine line. Any
suggestions?
Some men that I have been aquainted with, want women that they feel
might not *want* them in return. They want women whom are out of
their legue. I sometimes wish men would think that I am lets say too
sophistocated for them. I am very very attractive, but so down to
earth that there might not be too much of a challenge. Even though I
have very freaky fetishes and suprises all the time, I may not give
men the impression I am a woman in control of herself. I usually have
random outbursts of conversation or ideas of chaotic adventures. In
some ways I may appear to be too needy at times because I haven't
gotten myself together towards a direction. I might be too
affectonate to my boyfriend, I am usually the one chasing after him!
I don't want to play those head games of
giving him less attention so he would *come* to me more instead of my
initiating things...
So as a woman, sometimes I feel confused about what men want....
A lady on the ouside and a slut in bed. I am trying to work on the
'lady' part.... I am trying to get myself together here....
jenny =-)
________________________________________________________________________
Sliding like a whisper though the databases.......
_______________________________________________________________________
vic...@hotmail.com
sep...@bu.edu (Sepideh Baghaii) wrote:
> I am SICK and tired of having to heal guys because some woman has fucked them
> up. I am tired of being the mender. Why can't they like me? Don't they see
> that I am not her? I brought a boy home the other night. He cried because it
> had been so long since someone held him and looked into those beautiful blue
> eyes. I don't see how she could be a vegetarian and eat him alive.
I hear ya! Women can be more cruel then anything in the world. The hardest
thing for a man to do is, give his heart away. Knowning that, women still
lead us on, and get are heart broken. I can't believe I hear the bull that
women are more sensitive then men. Believe it or not, it is men that have the
most broken hearts not women. Men don't give their heart as openly, but when
they do, and when it is refused it hurts like you wouldn't believe!
> Chris, women do not always love innocent men. I love the dangerous ones and
> the skinny ones and the fat ones and the safe ones. It isn't all this or
> that. It is a combination of things.
Chris, trust me man! Women do NOt like the innocent man. It really sucks for
us, but dont change. Continue to be innocent, but be knowledgable as well.
--
I am the lord of the Dance
vic...@hotmail.com
cdu...@mindspring.com wrote:
> clam...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Honesty and innocence aren't very sexually attractive traits in a man (except
>tovery few, rare women who are always taken because to those few and rare women
> there are an abundance of men with those qualities seeking her out.)
Ok why on eart is that not attractive. I think honesty, and innocense are the
most attractive things in the world. Its shows a young kid that hasn't
experienced much, but is willing to. It shows his childhood kindness.
> >When I was young, I mistakenly thought that women
> >were rational, and if I was kind and respectful, I would be respected in
> >return. What did it get me? Lots of male friends, yet women who were too
> >repulsed by me to even make eye contact.
Women are different from men. Men like football, wrestling, and guy things.
You can't really talk guy things with a women and expect a long lasting
dialog. You have to talk about women things they like to hear. What do they
like to hear? I have no clue, anything that is boring! You have to ask her
those.
> > In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
> >want to go out and do something sometime....
>
> That's a lot of women. Maybe you could pick out women more carefully.
I agree.. There are some women, i just can't get because they have some bias
over another.
>
> >Each one has told me no in some
> >way or another. Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
> >(they don't like my dietary preferences, or hobbies, found new mystery men
> >that they would rather be with, have decided that they just would rather be
> >single -yeah right-, etc. No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
> >real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
> >money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
Nah dude, but I have to respect your persistance. You will get a NICE girl.
Just keep looking. Over all you have to keep on trying. You have innocent,
now get other manly qualities you think a man should have. Its oke to be
innocent and kind and stuff, but for god sake, watch your own bake. Make sure
no one is trying to screw you over. I was just like you man, and in a way i
still have a lot of my innocense, but I know that women can hurt men more
then you could possible fathom. I wish my EX just beat me to a pulp, because
I would heal and get better, instead she broke my heart so bad you wouldn't
even believe. It hurts every day less and less. I will always have feeligns
for my first love, but i know I didnt do anything wrong. The key now is
become more dynamic. Find out your flaws and fix them. Mine was being to
trusting, giving to much, and loving on the first dime. Great in thought, but
bad in reality . Doesn't WORK! I so wish to god, nice guys with great loving
hearts would succeed, but you have to play by a new rule book. Don't fall
back on your innocense to save you. Follow the new rules, and find a girl
that doesn't like them an ymore then youd o.
Vic
vic...@hotmail.com
"Matt Helm" <matt...@gte.net> wrote:
> Stop trying to hard. be yourself. all of the other cliches.
It burns me up to write this: I say to the original write not only to be
yourself, but change yourself a little bit. Don't be so trusting, trust, but
not to much. Its good to be a nice guy, but not all find that attractive. to
bad
--
--
I am the lord of the Dance
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Ray Gordon
:I don't get the ladies, I still go up to them.
Good for you, Brian.... If you came up to me as a stranger, I would
take it as a compliment.
<-------How nice. And if a jerk was polite to you, you'd take that as
one too. A wise man doesn't weaken himself by approaching women. If I
am of such value to you, you can approach me. If not, why would you want
me to approach you except to boost your ego?
its fun once you have gotten
:used to rejection.
Well, I don't think you really *feel* like rejection is fun. You are
just responding to the situation with your defense mechanisms.
But those defenses *do* work, and if you get a positive result from
your defenses, by all means keep thinking that way.
<-----Rejection is a reflection of male stupidity or female dishonesty.
It has to be one or the other.
"I am sorry that you don't WANT
:TO TALK, with me I find that really dissapointing. Have a nice life. "
Good advise there. You could leave out the sarcasm of saying, "Have a
nice life" If you were to say that, a girl would get even more
defensive. Be better than that, and just *think* "have a nice life,
Bitch" to justify your rejection mentally.
<-----I find saying "Okay, thanks" or "Oh well" and walking away,
forgetting the woman completely from that point forward, works best.
Especially if she sees me again after that point.
For
:me I think up things to say and say them I don't care if they don't like
it
:becuase I will never see them again.
If women give you that attitude in the first place, they are not worth
your effort or time, and eventually *your* money.
<--------But women defend the attitude by saying "I'm only that way with
YOU." You can't have it both ways. Why are you not scolding the women
for their behavior if you are truly so opposed to it? And if he's such a
great guy, why aren't you dating him? And if you aren't dating him, what
good are you?
I know you are into computers and so
:am I. Can you recall what it felt like when you solved some really
difficult
:C++ code problem.
God, I have a BF who is a Senior Informations Technology Network
Admin.
<----Really? Which company? Odds are if it's a large corporation they
break many laws. Do you really think people can take money from corrupt
sources and not become corrupt themselves?
I happen to love learning about different aspects of networking, game
leveling, game development... and if I met one of you guys on the
street...and I knew you guys were coders....I would be thrilled to go out
and do coffee, and hopefully learn a thing or two
about C/C++.
<------So you are picking their brains for info with the implied hint
that you might get into a relationship with them. In other words,
teasing them.
I am in the middle of changing careers, and I want to
learn C. I happen to find geekie guys very sexy and intelligent.
When I say geekie, I mean that as a compliment to your intellectual
abilities. Its sheek to be geek these days.... *smirk*
<---------The correct spelling is "Chic." Not that spelling is
reflective of intelligence.
Dating... for me is no big deal I don't care if I ever find a woman
:becuase the chase is often a very big thrill.
You know, here is one of my issues. As a girl, I am very pretty, and
I am pretty open and honest.
<----Where's your pic? I'll even score you on a scale of 1-25 if you
like. Most women who call themselves "very sexy" or "very pretty" are
marginally attractive at best and just have an inflated opinion of
themselves.
Maybe a bit too blunt at times. I might be just a little *too* overly
friendly, but that is just my nature. I may not give the guys a chance to
*feel* the challenge of aquiring
me... you know what I mean? Some people tell me that I have to learn
how to be more of a Bitch... but only a bitch to a point, where a guy
could actually *want* me even more because I may be somewhat
unattainable. I really don't know how to draw that fine line. Any
suggestions?
<---------Thought you had a boyfriend...a guy with CASH, no doubt....how
much has he spent on you again?
Some men that I have been aquainted with, want women that they feel
might not *want* them in return. They want women whom are out of
their legue.
<----What puts a woman out of their league? Her LOOKS? Ever occur to
you that your BODY is the only reason men want you? Nah, it wouldn't...
I sometimes wish men would think that I am lets say too
sophistocated for them.
<-------Don't worry, I don't think that.
I am very very attractive, but so down to earth that there might not be
too much of a challenge.
<-----Humble too! Where's the pic? Sounds like a woman who is a 6 or a
7 with a swelled head, not a truly sexy woman.
Even though I have very freaky fetishes and suprises all the time, I may
not give
men the impression I am a woman in control of herself. I usually have
random outbursts of conversation or ideas of chaotic adventures. In
some ways I may appear to be too needy at times because I haven't
gotten myself together towards a direction. I might be too
affectonate to my boyfriend, I am usually the one chasing after him!
<-----Why do I get the impression this letter is written by a male in
disguise?
I don't want to play those head games of giving him less attention so he
would *come* to me more instead of my initiating things...
So as a woman, sometimes I feel confused about what men want....
A lady on the ouside and a slut in bed. I am trying to work on the
'lady' part.... I am trying to get myself together here....
<-------Men want sex, a mommy, and a maid. End of story. A dad who is
the boss and can make his career is a nice throw-in too.
je...@exoticomm.com
>>My boyfriend feels the same way, as he has had some similar
>>experiences. Rejection hurts...very bad in fact. I am a woman,
>>a very attractive one, and I have had hard times making friendships
>>with females. I have absolutly no female friends. I relate to men
>>easier than females. I think sometimes part of my problems with
>>girls is that I make a lot of sexual comments. Not like a truck
>>driver girl, per say, but I think women are turned off by that....
I can understand this the same has happened to me many of times
women either think your fluiting with their men or that your some
Thing that they can't understan because you go agenst everyhing
they were tought growing up. and being attractive makes it even
harder for either case.
>And also it might be because, from what I've read of your posts,
>that you don't seem to think very highly of other women. that
>might rub off on other women and that may be why you don't have
>too many female friends.
humm could be true people tend to turn away from what they don't want
to see in them self. and I don't see her as not thinking very hightly
of other women but seeing what some don't wish to see in them self.
>For Clambers though, this is overall a very nice, supportive, helpful
>response that will hopefully help him a great deal. (doesn't do
>much for me but then nothing does because there is no hope for me.)
I wish you wouldn't look so saddly apon your self and start
seeing your self as someone worth something ....
and I hope soon
>> Typically, women try hard not even to make eye contact with me....
>>
kinda like not wanting to look a what they may find
>>My boyfriend often says that also. He feels invisible. I know he
>>tells me these things because he is honest with me, and I am glad, but
>>it hurts me to think that he needs more... or he needs other women's
>>attention. I give him so much attention, but because he was never
anybody else in his life, i think he feels like he needs to feel
he can attract others.
am a little sad in a way that he wants other women to pay attention
.
doesn't it make you feel good when someone notices you? not your
boyfriend someone else male or felmale? if it doesn't then I would
wonder why .. because everyone likes to be noticed some go to great
langhts to get noticed your given him attention isn't the proublem
him needing to know that other will as well can do wonders for
oneself . Don't feel sad when someone does show him attention
smile and say see I am not the only one that think you are
<wink inserted> hot . <G>
>really? if i knew someone like you i probably wouldn't care in
>the least if i attracted anyone else or not.
>>Yes. There are a lot of women who are just *not* willing to believe
>>that a man could be just *nice* without hitting on them.
and many men who are NOT willing to believe that a women can love
them for who they realy are without useing them.
>Yes, that actually seems very common. But then I sometimes wonder,
>maybe men really *are* only nice when they're trying to hit on
>someone (except for me of course, I'm nice to everybody in real
>life, including men and women I'm not the least bit attracted to.
>In fact, I'm probably actually nicer to them than I am to women
>I am attracted to.)
Kinda like naver hateing anyone realy and trying to see the good
even around all the bad huh ?
>Jenny =-)
vic...@hotmail.com
>
> of the doubt, but women have made it clear to me that *they* don't want
> anything to do with me.
Look, you can either take my advice or not. I understand where you are
comming from, because I was SOME-WHAT in your shoes. The problem is: You are
probably to damn NICE and innocent. Its great to have those charactierics
because they are so noble and good, but lets be honest with each other: Women
do not like them. Why they dont like them? I have no clue, but its just not
an attractive trait I guess. Become a STRONGER man, don't take sh!t from
anyone! Jee-wiz have more self-confidenc also.
>When I was young, I mistakenly thought that women
> were rational, and if I was kind and respectful, I would be respected in
> return. What did it get me? Lots of male friends, yet women who were too
> repulsed by me to even make eye contact.
Learn to talk to women... You can't talk about Star-Trek or how good that girl
looks in a Bikini. You have ot talk about women things. I dont know what they
are, they are different for each one. Thus the whole "talking" concept.
>
> In the last couple of years, I must have asked over 40 women if they
> want to go out and do something sometime.... Each one has told me no in some
> way or another. Rejection after rejection, a strings of bizarre excuses
> (they don't like my dietary preferences, or hobbies, found new mystery men
> that they would rather be with, have decided that they just would rather be
> single -yeah right-, etc. No one has ever given me what I suspect are the
> real reasons they would rather not be with me, that I don't make enough
> money, or that I am not over 6 feet tall)
Dude, that is the bigest bunch of shit. There is a guy named Evan i know. He
is average attractive, and he gets chicks all the time. Its how you carry
yourself :) Dude, I know where you are comming from, but I am going to give
you soem plain truth: Become a cooler person! Stop acting like a
nice-innocent guy. Because as long as you remain that: women probably won't
come. I am NOT saying be an asshole. But turn down your nice a little bit.
Try not to be so innocent. I understand the last one is hard. I straight up
tell girls I am innocent, and if they are willing to teach me and show me the
lines great. If not, forget them. I doubt it has anything to do with your
looks and size as much as what you have to say.
>
> What annoys me.... women who aren't interested in me (pretty much all
> of them) who are too say so. They will 'put up' with you for 2, say 3 dates
> then suddenly tell you that they don't want to see you again, that they were
> just being 'nice' all along. Sometimes they even get nasty for no good
> reason, and almost always they try to turn it around and blame you for
> something or another. (and don't tell me that I am pestering them by calling
> too often.... I have a very strict 'only call after you have been called'
> rule that I enforce at all times). YOU COULD SAVE ME A WHOLE LOT OF TIME AND
> MONEY BY BEING HONEST IN THE FIRST PLACE.
>
> But I'm sure that the women who are reading this simply don't care,
> because, they are heartless. They have no emotions except for the desire to
> take men's money, and a fury at how they are being 'oppressed' by males.
> It's fashionable to hate men these days, but the way I see it, the women do
> much more to be angry at. In fact, most men I know are the friendly quiet
> type who really respect others, with a small group of deviants causing all of
> the trouble, wheras most women I know are cruel and selfish, are used to
> being treated like the 'princess', and yes, the older I get, the more I
> realize that many women are slightly lazy and not so bright. I held back on
> forming the last opinion, but how else would you explain the complete lack of
> women in academic areas such as the hard sciences at a time when female
> affirmative action is at ludicrous levels? (of course I know some brilliant
> and kind women, but they all fall at about the 1% level, and then are at such
> demand anyway that they suffer from super-princessites).
>
> Proud misogynist
> Clambers
>
Marg Petersen
wombn <wo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 04 Aug 1998 22:10:48 GMT, in alt.support.depression,
>vic...@hotmail.com said:
>
>
>>Learn to talk to women... You can't talk about Star-Trek or how good that girl
>
>Then again, I have a somewhat different take on it than most of the guys
>I've talked to about Star Trek. That different take might be a
>gender-tendency, though. Who knows?
>
I agree. I'm a *trekkie* from way back, and so are my kids and my
husband. I go to conventions frequently. I watch ST all the time.
I have posters in my house, at work. I have a Star Trek phone for
cripes sake!!! :-)
Marg
>--
>__________________________________________________________________
>"I would rather be loved by only me,
> than create a facade and be loved by no one" -- wombn
>"I AM SIGNIFICANT! screamed the dust speck", Calvin & Hobbes
>__________________________________________________________________
>abusive email sent to me might be posted in the newsgroup(s) at my discretion.
>anon-...@anon.twwells.com, x-no-archive: yes is in the headers
>http://www.mindspring.com/~wombn
--
Marg Petersen Member PSEB: Official Sonneteer JLP-SOL
god...@peak.org http://www.peak.org/~goddess
"At ease Ensign, before you sprain something." - Capt. Janeway
mw...@imag.net
t...@delphi.com wrote:
> <ter...@nospam.com> writes:
>
> >Why shouldn't you hate women? The reason you shouldn't is because
> >there is someone out there for you. The thing is, you have to wait
> >and look for the perfect one. You can't put all women in the same
> >mold. Once you find the one for you, I promise you that you won't
> >feel the way that you do right now. The world is full of caring
> >women, you just haven't found the right one for you yet. Don't give
> >up, keep looking. I promise you you WILL find the one for you. I
> >know I felt the same way about men, but I FINALLY found the love of my
> >life, and you can too.
>
> EXcept that one out of 6 never finds "the one for them". So much for your
> promise. Or what if he wants kids, but doesn't meet the fabled "right one"
> until she's past menopause.
>
> What do you tell him then? Better luck next life?
>
> Women just don't get it, do they?
And you don't get that you are your own worst enemy... any potential mate is
put off because you hate all women because of what's happened to you.. get
over it and get on with life.. or enjoy being single and quit whining.. no
one is responsible for your life except you... end of story.
mw...@imag.net
t...@delphi.com wrote:
> <ter...@nospam.com> writes:
>
> >Why shouldn't you hate women? The reason you shouldn't is because
> >there is someone out there for you. The thing is, you have to wait
> >and look for the perfect one. You can't put all women in the same
> >mold. Once you find the one for you, I promise you that you won't
> >feel the way that you do right now. The world is full of caring
> >women, you just haven't found the right one for you yet. Don't give
> >up, keep looking. I promise you you WILL find the one for you. I
> >know I felt the same way about men, but I FINALLY found the love of my
> >life, and you can too.
>
> EXcept that one out of 6 never finds "the one for them". So much for your
> promise. Or what if he wants kids, but doesn't meet the fabled "right one"
> until she's past menopause.
>
> What do you tell him then? Better luck next life?
>
> Women just don't get it, do they?
And you don't get that you are your own worst enemy... any potential mate is
put off because you hate all women because of what's happened to you.. get
over it and get on with life.. or enjoy being single and quit whining.. no
one is responsible for your life except you... end of story.
I know.. what a heartless bitch I am.. :)))
Ray Gordon
> EXcept that one out of 6 never finds "the one for them". So much for
your
> promise. Or what if he wants kids, but doesn't meet the fabled "right
one"
> until she's past menopause.
>
> What do you tell him then? Better luck next life?
>
> Women just don't get it, do they?
And you don't get that you are your own worst enemy... any potential mate
is
put off because you hate all women because of what's happened to you..
get
over it and get on with life.. or enjoy being single and quit whining..
no
one is responsible for your life except you... end of story.
I know.. what a heartless bitch I am.. :)))
<----Yes, you are a heartless bitch. Also a stupid one. See, the
"winner" guys you would never give that kind of lip too see through your
two-faced behavior. Most rich men I know who are smart watch how the
women treat the "losers" in life. This is a good way to find out if a
woman is a golddigger or not. If women knew how many "winners" they
chased away every time they picked on a "loser" they'd think twice about
remarks like this.
By the way, CUNT, the next time you talk to a woman who is cheated on or
who repeatedly has bad relationships, or who mentions hating men, I want
you to give the same advice to her that you just gave to this man: that
it's her fault, that her anger will prevent her from finding another man
(well, it won't, because men are always willing to bang an angry chick),
etc.
Women bring their problems on themselves much the same way you accuse
this man of bringing his problems upon himself. But you know what? If
he had prefaced his post with a tale of a six-figure income or a six-foot
height, or both, I bet your reply would have been a lot different.
And no one is responsible for his life but himself? See, women only say
that when they think the guy will be a LOSER forever. Let the guy turn
around and become a WINNER and she will say things like "let go of your
anger" (even though the woman didn't do anything to indicate that she has
changed, etc).
Any man who listen's to a woman's romantic advice is a FOOL.
Ilya
You are a very special, wonderful person and you have not found that
equally wonderful person to match your personality. Believe me, she is out
there and is equally frustrated with insensitive, selfish men.
In article <6q2793$c1h$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> you wrote:
: Why shouldn't I hate women?
Because your future wife is one of them.
I can totally identify with your frustrations, having been there, done that.
Ilya
Ray Gordon
You are a very special, wonderful person and you have not found
that
equally wonderful person to match your personality. Believe me, she is
out
there and is equally frustrated with insensitive, selfish men.
<----But if she is special, then the insensitive, selfish men already got
her and got her first. The message is that if you want a special woman,
be insensitive and selfish. Women, who are insensitive and selfish
themselves, feel a sense of kinship with this.
: Why shouldn't I hate women?
Because your future wife is one of them.
<--------That's if he's stupid enough to marry.
I can totally identify with your frustrations, having been there, done
that.
<----And if the ONE woman who changed your viewpoint left you tomorrow,
what would you do then?
By the way, does your promise that he will one day find the woman of his
dreams come with a lifetime guarantee like that GM Goodwrench Service
Plus?
Phoenix Gamma
> They reject my values and way of life. They have made it
clear that they see
>nothing of worth in me. I have a right to be annoyed. So if you are
black
>(perhaps you are) you shouldn't hate the KKK for how they feel about
you?
What are your "values of life", do you attempt to forcefully ram them
down some woman's throat?
Oh, and black peopel hating the KKK, an organisation geared towards
exterminating them simply because their skin is a different colour is
not the same as hating all women because the few you've attempted to
get with don't appreciate your "values".
There are many women in this world with different personalities,
ideas, sensibilities and ideals. The Klu Klux Klan collectively only
have ONE ideal. No comparison.
>> Honesty and innocence aren't very sexually attractive traits in a
man
>
> My point exactly.... how can I respect a group who puts no
value on honesty.
It depends what you mean by "honesty". I refuse to believe, even in
the face of this held belief that women prefer "dangerous" guys that
most women would take some dishonest crook or hardened criminal over a
genuinely down-to-earth guy. But it's all down to how you carry
yourself. I suspect your stance is somewhat stiff.
>> I don't know what the problem is. Maybe you seem too demanding in
a
>> particular way, or you have too strict a set of rules or something
that might
>> annoy women.
>> Maybe you seem resentful of women. I don't know. There are lots
of
>> possibilities. If I met you in person I might be able to get an
idea of what,
>> if anything, they might find unacceptable in you.
>
> This is exactly wht I am trying to figure out.
The solution is simple: Don't go looking to women for the answer look
at yourself. Take a step back from yuorself and ask: If *I* was a
woman, would I go out with me? Work the rest out from there...
> This is what I hate.... when they are too spineless to be
straightforward in
>the first place, but instead wait until you are have developed an
emotional
>attachment. What is this 'being nice' garbage? Being 'nice' would
be being
>honest. No, she was really just guttless, and slightly cruel in
fact.
I'm not a believer in this nice guy vs a*sehole thing. Like all
stereotypes, there is some truth in it, but it is by no means a rule
by which all humanity should be judged. Everyone is different.
Having said that, I believe this whole dating/relationships thing is
just a game. So, you've got to be ruthless to survive otherwise
you'll be consumed by your own self-pity. And yes, being ruthless
does mean being a bit "dishonest" (whatever that means), but that's
the way it is. It's all very well and good having a nice, shiny halo
but you've got to be a bit forceful and bold to get ahead in this
game. You can tread on eggshells or tiptoe around an expect to get
ahead. Men, afterall are regarded as the "hunters". So, we fulfill
our roles as such and "hunt" for what we want. The law of the jungle
and all. If you don't hunt, you don't eat, and if you don't eat,
then... oh well...
> I picks and chooses very carefully.... From personal adds and
emails.
>
From a personal perspective, anyone who has to rely on organsations
and agencies to find their one and only has a serious problem. There
is a real world out there, guy, get out in it or it'll leave you
behind.
> I find clubs a bad place to meet women also, but for different
>reasons. Clubs are usually only attended by men trying to meet
women, and
>very few women.
True, but still it's a start. It's a social environment. Get some
beers down you and go to it!
Also, may I suggest getting to know women as friends first? It helps
a lot, you know...
>
>> And, well, I'm short.
> Well, from what I know, this one is a true problem, except for
real short
>women.
Well, I suppose it *can* be in some respects, but if you've got
confidence, you don't really need height advantage.
-me