Have we seen too many fairy tales?
maija.no...@helsinki.fi
feelings with asking this because this is NOT my attempt be critical about
anyone.
The problem is that I've lost both of my parents and now 21-years-old. Because
of my life experiences, building a relationship hasn't always been too easy..
Usually I am pretty careful with whom I go out with, so when I do, I usually
already know I like him. Sooner or later things get more intimate and I tell
more about my situation and every single time it seems to create a strange
reaction. Most of the man get very emotionally involved with me and they tell
me all these things how they are going to make my life so wonderful and pay
off all the sorrow I've had in my life and how they want to be the one and
only for me. Sometimes it seems to me like I'm the dream come true only
because this time they really feel they are the knight who comes with the
white horse and save the poor little girl from awful life and live with her
happily ever after. Number of times different men have said me exactly this
"I want to save you". And in my mind and sometimes out loud I ask "from
what?". I mean I'm doing very well in my personal life in many levels and I
do enjoy life and show it out. On the other hand many guys get somehow scared
and seem to be thinking me as their new mother because I'm such a "strong and
brave WOMAN" and I find myself testing how far I can go with my power in the
relationship (,get VERY FAR;) ) and find a little monster inside of me and
REALLY hate that feeling and hate myself for it.
So naturally I get REALLY tired of these situations myself and end up
breaking relationships up pretty soon. Is the problem with me or is it with
my life? or is it in the people I date or is it in the society we hear all
these stories? Or is here the classical problem how the good guys never
really interests women - meaning - should I try to build a relationship with
"a knight" ;)? Should I date older men who would already be independent 100%,
have more realistic picture about love or have similar experiences? or is the
relationship between men and women always like this - is equality just an
illusion? Maybe I'm too picky, maybe I expect too much :) Not to even talk
about the possibility that a "perfect" love really can be found.
As an optimist I hope I just haven't found the one yet and he will run into
me sooner or later :) Well but anyway, if anyone has any experience or
feelings about this one I would love to hear your opinions what ever they
are. Thanks for listening, Maija :)
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Kjell Rilbe
>
[snip]
> The problem is that I've lost both of my parents and now 21-years-old.
> Because of my life experiences, building a relationship hasn't always
> been too easy..
Now, isn't that familiar... ;)
> Usually I am pretty careful with whom I go out with, so when I do, I
> usually already know I like him. Sooner or later things get more
> intimate and I tell more about my situation and every single time it
> seems to create a strange reaction. [Snipped description of how the men get emotional and want to save Maija from her sorrows.]
This sounds a bit familiar to me. I think I might react like that with a
woman like you, judging from my two last (and only notable) experiences
with the opposite sex. It seems like one thing that can really spark my
romantic interest in a girl, is to feel that she needs my help in some
way. I can't explain it, and I don't think I like it. I'd prefer to help
her because of my feelings, not get feelings for for helping her... Is
this some kind instinct of man to take protect his family against evil?
> So naturally I get REALLY tired of these situations myself and end up
> breaking relationships up pretty soon. Is the problem with me or is it
> with my life? or is it in the people I date or is it in the society we
> hear all these stories?
Judging from my own experiences, I'd say the problem is with the men.
But they probably can't help it.
> Or is here the classical problem how the good
> guys never really interests women - meaning - should I try to build a
> relationship with "a knight" ;)? Should I date older men who would
> already be independent 100%, have more realistic picture about love or
> have similar experiences? or is the relationship between men and women
> always like this - is equality just an illusion?
[snip]
Perhaps you should try to make it clear when you tell the guy about
these things in your past, that you don't need pity, help or anything,
that you're fine, and that it's all in the past? I think, but I'm not
sure, that would help me not to react the way you describe.
> As an optimist I hope I just haven't found the one yet and he will run
> into me sooner or later :) Well but anyway, if anyone has any
> experience or feelings about this one I would love to hear your
> opinions what ever they are. Thanks for listening, Maija :)
Thanks for sharing! It made me think for a bit, and perhaps get to know
myself yet a little better.
Kjell
--
(Remove _nospam_ to reply!)
23_skidoo
>
> Usually I am pretty careful with whom I go out with, so when I do, I usually
> already know I like him. Sooner or later things get more intimate and I tell
> more about my situation and every single time it seems to create a strange
> me all these things how they are going to make my life so wonderful and pay
> off all the sorrow I've had in my life and how they want to be the one and
> only for me. Sometimes it seems to me like I'm the dream come true only
> because this time they really feel they are the knight who comes with the
> white horse and save the poor little girl from awful life and live with her
> happily ever after. Number of times different men have said me exactly this
> "I want to save you". And in my mind and sometimes out loud I ask "from
> what?". I mean I'm doing very well in my personal life in many levels and I
> do enjoy life and show it out. On the other hand many guys get somehow scared
> and seem to be thinking me as their new mother because I'm such a "strong and
> brave WOMAN" and I find myself testing how far I can go with my power in the
> relationship (,get VERY FAR;) ) and find a little monster inside of me and
> REALLY hate that feeling and hate myself for it.
i could have gone that way with my finance, she was very distressed by
the death of her grandmother (which happened before i met her) and still
gets upset from time to time allthough increasingly less now. i felt the
urge to be the knight, to make everything better but realised that you
can't do that. i only realised this because she told me though. when she
first told me about her grandmother, it felt to me like she must have
been bottling up all the hurt each and every day and hiding it from me,
i though our relationship would change from then on because i now knew
how she filtered her experiences of the day, ie through an emotional
shield.
because of this, in the days that followed i was super attentive, just
waiting for the mask to slip, a few times i thought i saw through the
mask and rushed in to provide comfort. turned out i had it all wrong,
there was no mask, sure she still gets sad but it's not an every day
thing and she basically told me as much and was able to laugh with me at
my confusion, she was happy because i was just trying to be there for
her but told me that it wasn't necessary, she wasn't an egg and wasn't
about to break.
moral of this story, how can it help you? i think you have to be able
not only to share not only the sorrow but the fact that you can and do
deal with it every day. your partener should in time be able to
recognise when you need his support and when you just need some space to
be with your thoughts. just don't expect it to be instant, at first i
thought that her saying all was ok was just part of the shield.
it takes time, most things in life do. having said that perhaps some men
will not realise this ever, some may get it straight away, i only have
myself as an example.
-23
Joe Dlhopolsky
>>
>> Usually I am pretty careful with whom I go out with, so when I do, I usually
>> already know I like him. Sooner or later things get more intimate and I tell
>> more about my situation and every single time it seems to create a strange
>> reaction. Most of the man get very emotionally involved with me and they tell
>> me all these things how they are going to make my life so wonderful and pay
>> off all the sorrow I've had in my life and how they want to be the one and
>> only for me.
There is a strong inclination in men to be the Knight in Shining
Armor. I think it's part of our nature. I was in the situation that
you describe of the men you have dated. I fell in love with a woman
who had had some traumatic experiences at the hands of men. Some of
her history was self-destructive, as well. She had a dismal view of
men. I was strongly motivated to show her by my example that not all
men are as those she met or sought out. I profoundly desired to make
her happy and thereby help heal the wounds.
My feelings might have contributed to her rejection of me. I really
don't know. I feel that it was a personal failure on my part that I
was unable to get her to think of me as different from the men whom
had hurt or exploited her. My need and the way she rejected me was
very painful.
In any event, that's a little insight into the nature of the male
instinct in this area.
Joe Dlhopolsky
joe...@i-2000.com
czr...@arcman.com.au
>Usually I am pretty careful with whom I go out with, so when I do, I
>usually already know I like him. Sooner or later things get more intimate
>and I tell more about my situation and every single time it seems to
>create a strange reaction. Most of the man get very emotionally involved
>with me and they tell me all these things how they are going to make my
>life so wonderful and pay off all the sorrow I've had in my life and how
>they want to be the one and only for me. Sometimes it seems to me like
>I'm the dream come true only because this time they really feel they are
>the knight who comes with the white horse and save the poor little girl
>from awful life and live with her happily ever after. Number of times
>different men have said me exactly this "I want to save you". And in my
>mind and sometimes out loud I ask "from what?". I mean I'm doing very
>well in my personal life in many levels and I do enjoy life and show it
>out.
The most likely answer is that you are sending the wrong signals. If a
guy starts to care for you, and then you hit him with a heap of "emotional
hurt" stuff then of course he will react this way.
Could it be that you aren't dealing with your life experiences as well as
you think are? I realise this is probably a difficult question to ask
yourself.
I feel that before you will be able to enter into a relationship with a
man, you will have to come to terms with your own emotional turmoil, and
stop projecting it onto the relationship.
>On the other hand many guys get somehow scared and seem to be
>thinking me as their new mother because I'm such a "strong and brave
>WOMAN" and I find myself testing how far I can go with my power in the
>relationship (,get VERY FAR;) ) and find a little monster inside of me
>and REALLY hate that feeling and hate myself for it.
It's possible that this is another symptom of the problem. The fact that
you are repulsed by your own behaviour leads me to believe that it's not
really you. Solve the first problem and this one will probably go away
too.
>So naturally I get REALLY tired of these situations myself and end up
>breaking relationships up pretty soon. Is the problem with me or is it
>with my life? or is it in the people I date or is it in the society we
>hear all these stories? Or is here the classical problem how the good
>guys never really interests women - meaning - should I try to build a
>relationship with "a knight" ;)? Should I date older men who would
>already be independent 100%, have more realistic picture about love or
>have similar experiences? or is the relationship between men and women
>always like this - is equality just an illusion? Maybe I'm too picky,
Equality is the norm, not the exception. Please try to keep this in mind,
as it may be a good yardstick for you.
>maybe I expect too much :) Not to even talk about the possibility that a
>"perfect" love really can be found.
>As an optimist I hope I just haven't found the one yet and he will run
>into me sooner or later :) Well but anyway, if anyone has any experience
>or feelings about this one I would love to hear your opinions what ever
>they are. Thanks for listening, Maija :)
Maija, I think it would be a mistake to enter into any relationship until
you have done some personal housecleaning. You may find it helpful to
find someone to talk to, someone dispationate you can trust. Good luck.
Regards,
Chris.
-----------------------------------------------------------
NB: Real address is:
czr...@onaustralia.com.au
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy.
Jeffry Stetson
says...
>Number of times different men have said me exactly this
>"I want to save you".
Many, many women want exactly this and I was foolish enough to try to
give it to them. HA! It doesn't work. Suddenly *I* become responsible
for every perceived unhappiness.
>and seem to be thinking me as their new mother because I'm such a "strong
>and
>brave WOMAN"
Mother? That's hardly the reaction I would have to a "strong and brave
woman."
> and I find myself testing how far I can go with my power in the
>relationship (,get VERY FAR;) ) and find a little monster inside of me and
>REALLY hate that feeling and hate myself for it.
Hence the "Nice Guy" problem. Look, the "nice guy" is going to really make
excuses for your rotten behavior, because you have given him a ready-made
one: the death of your parents. When a scumbag comes along who doesn't
care about anything but getting laid, he's going to look really good now
isn't he?
>
>these stories? Or is here the classical problem how the good guys never
>really interests women - meaning - should I try to build a relationship with
>"a knight" ;)?
It's not either/or here. How about a good guy who wants someone complete
unto herself and offers the same? (That's what I want anyway.) The classic
myths go 1+1=1, in other words, "I'm not complete without you".
>Should I date older men who would already be independent 100%,
>have more realistic picture about love or have similar experiences?
Sure! (Of course, I'm 24 years older than you, so my answer is heavily
biased)
>or is the
>relationship between men and women always like this -
like what?
>is equality just an
>illusion?
Equality IS an illusion, IMHO, and a trememdously destructive one. Men
and women are NOT equal. In the same breath, however, one must say the
this does not imply that one is superior to the other. We are just
different. I, for one, enjoy that fact.
>Maybe I'm too picky, maybe I expect too much :)
Better now than after the "I do."
>Not to even talk
>about the possibility that a "perfect" love really can be found.
There is no such thing for it's even impossible to decide what perfection
in fact is. Yet I would hope that .95 + .95 = 1.9 is somehow possible.
>
>As an optimist I hope I just haven't found the one yet and he will run into
>me sooner or later :)
Maybe today! :)
>are. Thanks for listening, Maija :)
Lovely name BTW.
Jeffry
Jenny Richard
> <snip>
> Sometimes it seems to me like I'm the dream come true only
> because this time they really feel they are the knight who comes with the
> white horse and save the poor little girl from awful life and live with her
> happily ever after. Number of times different men have said me exactly this
> "I want to save you". And in my mind and sometimes out loud I ask "from
> what?". I mean I'm doing very well in my personal life in many levels and I
> do enjoy life and show it out. On the other hand many guys get somehow scared
> and seem to be thinking me as their new mother because I'm such a "strong and
> brave WOMAN" and I find myself testing how far I can go with my power in the
> relationship (,get VERY FAR;) ) and find a little monster inside of me and
> REALLY hate that feeling and hate myself for it.
> <snip>
You feel fine, right? Yes, you've had a lot of tragedy in your life. Yes, you've
been hurt. Yes, you've had to struggle through, but you've made it. You're finally
feeling ok...and now all these men want to protect you and "save" you. Why?
It's in a man's nature to protect women that seem vulnerable and in danger. Like
someone suggested, perhaps when you're telling the man about your tragic past,
you're giving off signals that say, "I'm hurting, I'm scared, protect me." So they
do.
But what you want is someone to listen, understand, and appreciate what you've
been through...then treat you normally.
On a much smaller scale, when my husband and I first met, he made a big deal out
of my being left-handed. He would constantly point of things made especially for
left-handers, he even bought me a calendar. While he though he was being nice and
"helping me deal with my left-handedness" he was really just alienating me. I GREW
UP left-handed. I've never known life any other way. I didn't feel the need to
have any of these left-handed gadgets because no one ever made me feel being
left-handed was wrong...and now here he was making me feel wrong and different
when there were no "different" feelings there.
That's what you've got: men who make you feel different when you didn't before.
What you need to do is assure them that you are OK, you don't need saving. You've
been through some rough times, but they've only made you stronger: you can handle
life! you don't need to be protected!
Now of course, you don't want to totally alienate them in return. Men want to
feel like they are protecting you and caring for you, even if it's just an
illusion. My husband uses the term "meaningless but symbolic victories" all the
time. What he means is I let him do something I could have easily done myself so
that I reassure his male instincts. He sometimes will run around the car to open
the door for me. When he has to park away from the entrance of a building, he
offers to drop me off so I don't have to walk in the cold.
If you allow your guy "meaningless but symbolic victories" don't tell him so. If
you can do something yourself and he offers to do it for you, just say, "ok, thank
you." Don't point out that you could easily do it yourself. And you don't have to
allow him to do everything for you just to protect his instinctual
feelings...allow him to do whatever makes you feel cared for and loved, not what
makes you feel smothered and overprotected.
Jenny
--
Webmistress, Romance Galore
Co-Editor, Isn't It Romantic
http://www.RomanceGalore.com
Poetry, love advice, and more!
Wind Machine
abusive person. Try it, you might like it ... at first. Given the background
you've stated, they fit your compatibility profile.