"Signals"/Nonverbal Communication - Cultural Differences
t...@delphi.com
I first thought of this in a thread with Courageous last week, and thought
I'd ask for others' views.
As I've stated before, my success rate with American women has been quite
dismal. However, my success rate with Asian women has been phenomenal. AS
it's been with Asian women here in the US as well as overseas, it's not
a matter of being wanted by women from "poorer" countries.
Now I could say it's because Asian women are better at discerning the
most important qualities in men, but I won't :)
So my thought is, could the fact that "signals" and other forms of nonverbal
communication be a factor in that success. As "signals" are already vague
and ambiguous, how much more so between individuals of different cultures?
And as a result, greater reliance is placed on the verbal part of
communication, a part where I'm better than with the "signals".
For example, there are gestures/postures/acts we take for granted in the
US which are highly inappropriate in the Philippines, though Filipinos
are too polite to point them out. Conversely, there's at least one gesture
one can meake in the Philippines that might result in bodily harm if
duplicated in the US. Words, OTOH, are far more precise, and "translate"
better.
Not entirely related, but I've had some good success with Net personals,
where the first contact is by printed word only. No "signals", or posture,
or gestures, or eye contact, or inflections, or tones.
THoughts? Comments? Flames? I know I'll be getting a bumper crop of the
last.
DB
Courageous
> where the first contact is by printed word only. No "signals", or posture,
> or gestures, or eye contact, or inflections, or tones.
Yes... and often times by the time you get there, you
feel very comfortable with that person the first time.
People who get nervous on approaches to strange women
might seize up, giving off the I'm-scared-to-shit-signal,
which is a major turn off to women, even when they find
you attractive.
I've found that even women seize up on first dates some
times, putting up a major affective wall; I can say for
a fact that even when a woman is attractive, she is less
attractive to me when she doesn't show positive body
language and facial expressions back. I have failed to
return phone calls to women who seemed disinterested
in me affectively, only to get further follow up calls
where they later showed a definite interest. Confusing
sometimes, this is.
This in and of itself could be a severe handicap to
anyone in the dating game that doesn't know how to flirt
properly. That playful-I-like-you-don't-you-wish-you-
can-have-me signal isn't there.
And so the interest is lost.
C/
t...@delphi.com
>> Not entirely related, but I've had some good success with Net personals,
>> where the first contact is by printed word only. No "signals", or posture,
>> or gestures, or eye contact, or inflections, or tones.
>
>Yes... and often times by the time you get there, you
>feel very comfortable with that person the first time.
>People who get nervous on approaches to strange women
>might seize up, giving off the I'm-scared-to-shit-signal,
>which is a major turn off to women, even when they find
>you attractive.
of more "confident" Assholemen...
>This in and of itself could be a severe handicap to
>anyone in the dating game that doesn't know how to flirt
>properly. That playful-I-like-you-don't-you-wish-you-
>can-have-me signal isn't there.
DB
Courageous
> >might seize up, giving off the I'm-scared-to-shit-signal,
> >which is a major turn off to women, even when they find
> >you attractive.
> This would explain why far too many young women reject
> decent men in favor of more "confident" Assholemen...
There are decent men that aren't scared to shit around
women. Playful, flirty... realizing that being flirty and
playful doesn't mean she wants to have sex with you or
will even give you her phone number... just having fun,
knowing full well she doesn't mind having fun... relaxed,
unconcerned, looking for a new friend, or just wanting
to share smiles.
It's nothing to worry about, really.
Women *like* being flirted with. That's the secret.
C/
Aaron R Kulkis
Yes, but at the same time, they are getting laws passed to
outlaw it, so that they can put the screws to any man who
they decide (at a later date) to get revenge upon...
Damned if you do, damned if you don't ...
>
> C/
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
pi...@antispam.ca
>Courageous wrote:
>>
>> > >People who get nervous on approaches to strange women
>> > >might seize up, giving off the I'm-scared-to-shit-signal,
>> > >which is a major turn off to women, even when they find
>> > >you attractive.
>>
>> > This would explain why far too many young women reject
>> > decent men in favor of more "confident" Assholemen...
>>
>> There are decent men that aren't scared to shit around
>> women. Playful, flirty... realizing that being flirty and
>> playful doesn't mean she wants to have sex with you or
>> will even give you her phone number... just having fun,
>> knowing full well she doesn't mind having fun... relaxed,
>> unconcerned, looking for a new friend, or just wanting
>> to share smiles.
>>
>> It's nothing to worry about, really.
>>
>> Women *like* being flirted with. That's the secret.
I think you better put a disclaimer on that.
More like being flirted with by the right guy(s).
>
>Yes, but at the same time, they are getting laws passed to
>outlaw it, so that they can put the screws to any man who
>they decide (at a later date) to get revenge upon...
>
>
>Damned if you do, damned if you don't ...
>
>
>>
>> C/
---
To send email replace "antispam" with "sprint"
Lydia Pena Simone
> I first thought of this in a thread with Courageous last week, and
thought
> I'd ask for others' views.
First, I don't know why you would get flamed for this post at all. This is
actually something that I believe to be true. (Speaking as a Filipina
raised here in the states)
> Now I could say it's because Asian women are better at discerning the
> most important qualities in men, but I won't :)
hehehehe It's just because we are better. <jk>
> So my thought is, could the fact that "signals" and other forms of
nonverbal
> communication be a factor in that success. As "signals" are already vague
> and ambiguous, how much more so between individuals of different
cultures?
> And as a result, greater reliance is placed on the verbal part of
> communication, a part where I'm better than with the "signals".
Actually, and this might throw you for a loop. There is a game, if you
will, to flirting and those first few dates. The rules, if we could call
them that, are governed by your culture. (same game played in different
ways in different places) If you are a white male who is obviously from
the states women from the states *expect* you to know and play by their set
of rules. Asians have another set of rules but we (Asian women) don't
expect a caucasian man to know *our* rules let alone play by them so we
make exceptions... lots of them. In fact we sometimes joke about it and
talk about how cute it is that they play by such a different set of rules.
A man who is obviously from Europe (strong accent etc) is given more leeway
than a man who is from their hometown. It is why different
standards/signals can be used by one person but not the next.
Likewise there are signals that "American" women use that are frowned upon
by non-American men. (Heck from the sound of this ng that are frowned upon
by American men too) It just makes that communication game a little more
interesting in the beginning. <g>
So yes I am agreeing with you there are "signals". But they are not just
non-verbal. :)
> Not entirely related, but I've had some good success with Net personals,
> where the first contact is by printed word only. No "signals", or
posture,
> or gestures, or eye contact, or inflections, or tones.
Someone else said it already but you build in a comfort zone by meeting
someone this way. That rids you of that "I'm scared" signal that women can
smell in the air. <jk> No, actually a lot of the time what men think is
"I'm scared" turns women off because they read it as "I'm not interested".
On the other hand net meetings provide just enough .... anonymity that
rules are forgotten. i.e. Just because you say that you are a wm doesn't
mean that a woman can assume that you are a wm from the states. You may be
from Europe or Africa or any number of places so they can't expect you to
know their rules. So they make more allowances, drop a little of the
pretense that their mother taught them to play with and make it easier on
you all around.
And BTW, Aaron not all women are trying to enact laws against flirting.
Most women enjoy it. It is just that ever vocal minority. Quit being so
down on American women.
Just my two cents. Thought you needed a woman's point of view in here. <g>
--
Lydia "Let love be your guide." Eph 5:2
Life is only therapy, real expensive with no guarantee - You Move Me
t...@delphi.com
>t...@delphi.com wrote in article <5BZ11...@delphi.com>...
>> I first thought of this in a thread with Courageous last week, and
>thought
>> I'd ask for others' views.
><snip>
>
>First, I don't know why you would get flamed for this post at all. This is
>actually something that I believe to be true. (Speaking as a Filipina
>raised here in the states)
usually met with ad hominem attacks.
>> Now I could say it's because Asian women are better at discerning the
>> most important qualities in men, but I won't :)
>
>hehehehe It's just because we are better. <jk>
>Actually, and this might throw you for a loop. There is a game, if you
>will, to flirting and those first few dates. The rules, if we could call
>them that, are governed by your culture. (same game played in different
>ways in different places) If you are a white male who is obviously from
>the states women from the states *expect* you to know and play by their set
>of rules. Asians have another set of rules but we (Asian women) don't
>expect a caucasian man to know *our* rules let alone play by them so we
>make exceptions... lots of them. In fact we sometimes joke about it and
>talk about how cute it is that they play by such a different set of rules.
But as I don't know Tagalog (yet!! :), I miss the joking part. Though my
asawa-to-be always wonders where I pick up the bits of Tagalog that I use
with her. Being Filipina she assumes there's another Filipina teaching
me, but my instructor is a male co-worker.
>Likewise there are signals that "American" women use that are frowned upon
>by non-American men. (Heck from the sound of this ng that are frowned upon
>by American men too) It just makes that communication game a little more
>interesting in the beginning. <g>
ambiguity behind them. Being a techie, that I guess can make me uncomfortable
at times.
>On the other hand net meetings provide just enough .... anonymity that
>rules are forgotten. i.e. Just because you say that you are a wm doesn't
>mean that a woman can assume that you are a wm from the states. You may be
>from Europe or Africa or any number of places so they can't expect you to
>know their rules. So they make more allowances, drop a little of the
>pretense that their mother taught them to play with and make it easier on
>you all around.
the progression is smooth an natural. For all the women I met this way,
the first FTF meeting was VERY comfortable.
>Just my two cents. Thought you needed a woman's point of view in here. <g>
DB
Dianne
>>> Now I could say it's because Asian women are better at discerning the
>>> most important qualities in men, but I won't :)
I don't believe that Asian women are better at it at all. I am fully
aware what I would like in a partner and what is important to me. I'm
a North American woman. I think that saying that Asian women are
better at discerning the most important qualities in men then western
women is one of the sweeping generalizations that I've been trying to
push out of this newsgroup.
>>Actually, and this might throw you for a loop. There is a game, if you
>>will, to flirting and those first few dates. The rules, if we could call
>>them that, are governed by your culture. (same game played in different
>>ways in different places) If you are a white male who is obviously from
>>the states women from the states *expect* you to know and play by their set
>>of rules. Asians have another set of rules but we (Asian women) don't
>>expect a caucasian man to know *our* rules let alone play by them so we
>>make exceptions... lots of them. In fact we sometimes joke about it and
>>talk about how cute it is that they play by such a different set of rules.
What rules? I've never played by any rules at all, except that I
treat people exactly the same as they treat me (although I do not
insult and demean people back). I think peoples mistake in regarding
their relationships is they try to figure out what the rules are.
There are no rules.
>>Likewise there are signals that "American" women use that are frowned upon
>>by non-American men. (Heck from the sound of this ng that are frowned upon
>>by American men too) It just makes that communication game a little more
>>interesting in the beginning. <g>
>For me it's not so much the signals themselves as it is the very deliberate
>ambiguity behind them. Being a techie, that I guess can make me uncomfortable
>at times.
What signals are you talking about here? I'd be interested to know.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne
t...@delphi.com
>>>> Now I could say it's because Asian women are better at discerning the
>>>> most important qualities in men, but I won't :)
>
>I don't believe that Asian women are better at it at all. I am fully
>aware what I would like in a partner and what is important to me. I'm
>a North American woman. I think that saying that Asian women are
>better at discerning the most important qualities in men then western
>women is one of the sweeping generalizations that I've been trying to
>push out of this newsgroup.
Though you may have some success starting March 18th, when I leave for my
wedding.
>What rules? I've never played by any rules at all, except that I
>treat people exactly the same as they treat me (although I do not
>insult and demean people back). I think peoples mistake in regarding
>their relationships is they try to figure out what the rules are.
>There are no rules.
etched in stone.
>What signals are you talking about here? I'd be interested to know.
Thanks!
DB
Jeffry Stetson
>>>make exceptions... lots of them. In fact we sometimes joke about it and
>>>talk about how cute it is that they play by such a different set of rules.
>
>treat people exactly the same as they treat me (although I do not
>insult and demean people back). I think peoples mistake in regarding
>their relationships is they try to figure out what the rules are.
>There are no rules.
You're wrong here, unless you don't accept there are rules against things like
date rape. (In return for being forced to have sex with him, would you force
him to have sex with you? Your one-rule doesn't work.) Perhaps there are no
rules if there is no concern for results. "Players" have no boundaries
because they don't care whom they have sex with or how they get what they
want. For the rest of us, here are rules, and lots of them. Decent guys
quickly learn that if they violate certain rules, they won't see the woman
again. Usually a decent guy asks someone out because he likes her and wants
to see her again. Sometimes he's just afraid of being rejected. I've dated
enough to be able to discern a set of things that will guarantee rejection by
the typical american woman:
1) driving her somewhere in my tow vehicle (an '87 Dodge conversion van)
instead of my often-in-the-shop Audi Quattro.
2) wearing my beloved floppy black hat
3) being honest with the question "how do I look?". (Gorgeous = come on,
pretty = 'don't you think I'm gorgeous?', Ok = insult)
4) admit poverty to an american woman over about age 33.
5) admitting that you aren't having sex with anybody.
Have all resulted in last dates for me.
Ok, again, I'll say *typical* american woman. Unfortunately, the average is
by definition, typical.
>
>What signals are you talking about here? I'd be interested to know.
>
How about, she says, "I had a great evening, I'll call you soon." Good! She
wants to see me again, right? It means the date is a success?
Hahahahahah!
*You* are supposed to be honest, and *she* can lie to your face without
consequence.
Jeffry
Lydia Pena Simone
> You've not been reading this group long, have you? Dissenting views are
> usually met with ad hominem attacks.
Actually I have been reading the group so long that I am rather blind to
the blatant attacks. (can smell a flame war without even opening a post and
hence skip it...) And if you take it all with a grain of salt (that grain
being that most of the people who attack, or claim to be superior, etc. are
just idiots then you feel much better. Or atleast I feel much better.
<G>)
> But as I don't know Tagalog (yet!! :), I miss the joking part. Though my
> asawa-to-be always wonders where I pick up the bits of Tagalog that I use
> with her. Being Filipina she assumes there's another Filipina teaching
> me, but my instructor is a male co-worker.
You know I made the same assumption when Mutt and I were engaged/married
and I *know* my sister has as well. Tagalog is an easy language to learn.
Just remember to have fun with it. Lord knows we do. (BTW have you even
noticed how many Filipina women are attracted to techies? Strange ...)
Anyway as women in all cultures do we joke when our SO's or just the men
around us do things that we think are cute. You don't need to know Tagalog
to understand that one. (Ask Mutt he knew when my aunts were giggling over
him)
> For me it's not so much the signals themselves as it is the very
deliberate
> ambiguity behind them. Being a techie, that I guess can make me
uncomfortable
> at times.
It isn't a deliberate ambiguity! Really it isn't. It is just that well
different people expect different things. Like a man bragging to a woman
that he is a champion duck hunter where I live (DC) will get a *very*
different response than one who says the same thing in say ... rural
Louisianna. Here they would be scorned the woman probably carrying on
about the poor little ducks, animal rights, and assorted other babble
painting the man in a bad light. While in LA they would be lauded, oohed
and awed over. Just the way that people react differently in different
places.
Does that make any sense? Depending on where you are and who you are
interacting with there are very clear ways certains "signal" or actions can
be interpretted. In a NYC bar if you are standing 3 feet away from a woman
when you are talking to her she will probably take that as a hint that you
aren't all that interested, while in another area of the country where
space isn't at such a premium ... a woman would probably think that you are
invading their personal space and some kind of freak. As Jeffrey
mentioned, if he were to pick a DC woman up in a 12 year old van she'd
probably decide not to go on the date after all. While in a place where
money/appearances aren't such a big deal, the choice of vehicles wouldn't
"make or break" a date.
Yet another example (for Dianne and anyone else who says there aren't
signals)
If an unknown Asian man were to come up to me, look me straight in the eye
and buy me a drink and start talking all without breaking eye contact, I
would be offended. In my culture that is an obvious sign of disrespect and
*he* should know better. But if a Hispanic man were to do that I would not
take offense because Hispanics tend to be more straightforward. And I've
been told that is there way of showing interest.
I know that being a techie you are used to very specific things happening
but just think of it as a game. It will make it much easier to deal with.
Not that you really have to deal with it since you are getting married.
(BTW CONGRATULATIONS! And if you notice all those
white-men-who-have-married-Filipina-women support groups... don't bring it
up to your wife. Just don't...)
Courageous
> I think you better put a disclaimer on that.
> More like being flirted with by the right guy(s).
Any normal, healthy adult... irrespective of gender,
male or female... generally finds it flattering to
find that someone is attracted to them. It's when
these attentions are overt and too direct that it
becomes a problem.
There has never been a time in my entire adult life
that I wasn't pleased to know that a woman found me
attractive, even if I didn't feel the same.
What is stressful is when they force the issue.
I've spoken with enough women about this to know
that the feeling is generally mutual.
The mistake is thinking that women are so different
than men. They are, but... not as much as you think.
C/
Courageous
>
> outlaw it, so that they can put the screws to any man who
> they decide (at a later date) to get revenge upon...
>
> Damned if you do, damned if you don't ...
Aaron, sometimes my crazy imagination dreams up things
like this: Aaron thinks that "flirting" includes sentences
like, "hey, babeeeee.... nice tits."
Now, I know that's being unfair of me, but I honestly think
that maybe you have no idea how to really flirt. Really.
I flirt with just about every single last on of my female
coworkers, for instance. My most common method: As I pass
them in the halls I say their name in a sing-song voice.
E.g., "Julieeeeeeeee........." After all this time, they
do it back. All of them. It's a fair bet that every single
last one of them LIKES it.
Did you know that in any language there is no more sweeter
a magic word than that person's name?
I honestly wonder what you think flirting is composed of.
I really don't get it.
HIM: "Hey, Jennifer, what'd you do for the weekend?"
HER: "We hung out at the Cannibal Club and went dancing."
HIM: "Oooh, Jennifer... you wild woman, you." *grin*
etc...
That's flirting.
Now. Your allegation that "flirting is being made illegal
in the workplace" invokes imagery of Jennifer going to
management and accusing the man of calling her a wild
woman. Oh dear. Riiiiiiiiight. As if.
She'll *like* it, you dork.
Sheeesh.
C/
Courageous
> ambiguity behind them. Being a techie, that I guess can make me uncomfortable
> at times.
There is ambiguity in signals because we
both men AND women, *caugh*) aren't sure
about the other person yet.
Maybe we've been burned too often.
Maybe we're just out of a relationship.
Maybe a relationship is ending, and
we're studying you to see if you're
"next".
Maybe we're wildly in love with someone
who won't have us, but we're not ready
to give up our vain hopes.
Maybe our heart isn't ready yet.
Maybe they don't know you well enough.
Maybe, maybe, maybe.
Some day (although I'm beginning to doubt
this, actually) you'll actually GET IT.
I sometimes think that the only reason
I understand is that, being a very attractive
male, I actually get approached all the time
myself. I guess I just know how the girl
feels. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Give me a second
to breath, gawd.
For beautiful women who get approached often,
the feeling could only be stronger, I would
guess.
D.B., if you had stopped to smell the roses
and actually made friends with some of the
women in your life you would KNOW all this.
It's genuinely sad that you don't. Honestly.
You think you don't need to learn. I know
for a fact you're wrong.
C/
Courageous
> Are you for real??? Courageous could you please fill Dianne in on "signals"?
Who, me? The "signals expert"? *self-mocking smile*
Subtle stuff: body language, facial expression.
Less subtle: the big smile and the hold-your-eyes-in-hers look.
The you don't have a clue if you don't ask her out trick:
HER: "What did you do this weekend?"
HIM: "Oh, I went hiking on Iron Mountain, it was fun."
HER: "Oooh, I want to go there!"
:)
Women tend to create a red carpet effect for those men
that they want to meet in social venues. Some men seldom
get the red carpet, though, and many men don't see it,
or are sometimes just too paralyzed to take advantage of
it.
C/
t...@delphi.com
>Some day (although I'm beginning to doubt
>this, actually) you'll actually GET IT.
>D.B., if you had stopped to smell the roses
>and actually made friends with some of the
>women in your life you would KNOW all this.
>It's genuinely sad that you don't. Honestly.
>You think you don't need to learn. I know
>for a fact you're wrong.
And I have made friends with some of the women in my life, but they of course
were unavailable. More than one wondered at my lack of success, and of
that subgroup a few found me very attractive.
My fiancee does not like it at all when other women flirt with me,
particularly in her presence, and is none too thrilled that I notice all
the other lovely women around.
>
DB
t...@delphi.com
>I sometimes think that the only reason
>I understand is that, being a very attractive
>male, I actually get approached all the time
>myself. I guess I just know how the girl
>feels. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Give me a second
>to breath, gawd.
or outgoing, or "exciting" enough to be considered by most women. Now
that seems to have changed, but I don't have the experience to
interpret this.
Fortunately I found a suitable go-around, one which led to better women
as well. I only wish I'd found it ten years ago.
DB
arichan
> Dianne <adv...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >>>> Now I could say it's because Asian women are better at discerning the
> >>>> most important qualities in men, but I won't :)
> >
> >I don't believe that Asian women are better at it at all. I am fully
> >aware what I would like in a partner and what is important to me. I'm
> >a North American woman. I think that saying that Asian women are
> >better at discerning the most important qualities in men then western
> >women is one of the sweeping generalizations that I've been trying to
> >push out of this newsgroup.
>
>
> Not while I'm here you won't, says DB the proverbial Immovable Object.
LOL! DB, this is why I look forward to your posts, as much as your famous
'american women opinion' (hereinafter referred to only as awo) irritates
me.
thanks for the chuckle!
>
> Though you may have some success starting March 18th, when I leave for my
> wedding.
getting nervous, or just happy? :) what a wonderful date to look forward
to (your wedding, doofus, not your absence)
>
> >What rules? I've never played by any rules at all, except that I
> >treat people exactly the same as they treat me (although I do not
> >insult and demean people back). I think peoples mistake in regarding
> >their relationships is they try to figure out what the rules are.
> >There are no rules.
>
>
> The rules of the "mating game" are unwritten, but they may as well be
> etched in stone.
Well, that's an overstatement, but they're THERE. How we flirt is, as
lydia pointed out so well, culturally determined and really lots of fun.
LONG live the Game.
:)
ari
>
>
>
> DB
>
arichan
<jkra...@san.rr.com> wrote:
> > >> Women *like* being flirted with. That's the secret.
>
> > I think you better put a disclaimer on that.
> > More like being flirted with by the right guy(s).
>
> Any normal, healthy adult... irrespective of gender,
> male or female... generally finds it flattering to
> find that someone is attracted to them. It's when
> these attentions are overt and too direct that it
> becomes a problem.
>
Yes. Flirting is not exclusively about a prelude to sex. I spent years
flirting with a male friend who was NOT attracted to me, nor I to him.
Oh, hell, possibly he WAS attracted to me but at the time he was sleeping
with a woman who is prettier than I, so I doubt I was 'stringing him
along' as I would be accused of doing if I didn't add this stupid
disclaimer. ANYway, we had no intentions of ever having sex, but our
friendship was enhanced by our flirtation -- didn't add meaning, but added
fun.
Actually, the only time I STOP flirting is when someone takes it too far
and doesn't pick up on my 'you've gone too far' signals - just as
Courageous said.
flirting can grease the gears of human interaction.
ari
>
>
>
> C/
Courageous
> one. I work with a very nice moman fella who simply complimented a
> woman in our office recently on her lovely new suit. I believe his
> words were, Hi "Sally" you look great today, thats a fabulous looking
> suit. She turned around and snottily said "I could have you written up
> for that... watch your step".
My reply:
"No, Sally, you couldn't. You saw the same sexual harrassment
video I did, and it specifically excludes compliments on one's
clothing as 'sexual harrassment'. However, as you seem to wish
it, I will refrain from saying anything nice to you in the future
whatsoever."
Although the real truth is, we'd never hire someone 'snotty' in
the first place...
C/
Courageous
> Ahh...interesting...
>
> Is that how it's susposed to be done? Here I thought I was smiling at
> people because I was being nice and friendly.
>
> Hey! It could be that they REALLY thought that I was flirting with
> them... And when I turned them down, I became the infamous bad girl!
>
> Oh dear, I'm a creature of my own undoing.
Not at all, Dianne. The big smile and hold-your-eyes look
means nothing more than "talking with me is allowed" and
nothing more. It's a fair bet that every time you've given
someone a direct gaze and a smile that you wouldn't have
given them the cold shoulder for being friendly with you
and initiating a conversation. Another area that men get
into trouble is sex: they get about 25 steps ahead and
suddenly.... BLAM. :)
matrix
<t...@delphi.com> wrote in message news:ZFeWN...@delphi.com...
>Dianne <adv...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>>>>> Now I could say it's because Asian women are better at discerning the
>>>>> most important qualities in men, but I won't :)
>>
>>I don't believe that Asian women are better at it at all. I am fully
>>aware what I would like in a partner and what is important to me. I'm
>>a North American woman. I think that saying that Asian women are
>>better at discerning the most important qualities in men then western
>>women is one of the sweeping generalizations that I've been trying to
>>push out of this newsgroup.
>
>
>Not while I'm here you won't, says DB the proverbial Immovable Object.
>
>wedding.
Congratulations DB...
You're a lucky man and your fiance is a lucky woman.
Philip
Jenn
Courageous wrote:
>
> I honestly wonder what you think flirting is composed of.
> I really don't get it.
>
> HIM: "Hey, Jennifer, what'd you do for the weekend?"
>
> HER: "We hung out at the Cannibal Club and went dancing."
>
> HIM: "Oooh, Jennifer... you wild woman, you." *grin*
>
> etc...
>
> That's flirting.
>
> Now. Your allegation that "flirting is being made illegal
> in the workplace" invokes imagery of Jennifer going to
> management and accusing the man of calling her a wild
> woman. Oh dear. Riiiiiiiiight. As if.
>
> She'll *like* it, you dork.
>
> Sheeesh.
Even the best meaning man will often get nailed by a feminist on this
one. I work with a very nice moman fella who simply complimented a
woman in our office recently on her lovely new suit. I believe his
words were, Hi "Sally" you look great today, thats a fabulous looking
suit. She turned around and snottily said "I could have you written up
for that... watch your step". Hmm.... Some women just don't understand
that compliments are NOT bad things.. Some women think any nice comment
about them or the way they look is bad and makes them a "victim" yeesh!
Signed,
The Anti-feminist
Dianne
>Who, me? The "signals expert"? *self-mocking smile*
>
>Subtle stuff: body language, facial expression.
>
>
>
>HER: "What did you do this weekend?"
>
>HIM: "Oh, I went hiking on Iron Mountain, it was fun."
>
>HER: "Oooh, I want to go there!"
>
>that they want to meet in social venues. Some men seldom
>get the red carpet, though, and many men don't see it,
>or are sometimes just too paralyzed to take advantage of
>it.
Ahh...interesting...
Is that how it's susposed to be done? Here I thought I was smiling at
people because I was being nice and friendly.
Hey! It could be that they REALLY thought that I was flirting with
them...
And when I turned them down, I became the infamous bad girl!
Oh dear, I'm a creature of my own undoing.
Yours sincerely,
Dianne, who now knows the signals
Muttley the Wonder Dog
Lydia Pena Simone wrote in message
<01be5f3d$252e7d00$4725accf@lydia-simone>...
>t...@delphi.com wrote in article <5BZ11...@delphi.com>...
>> I first thought of this in a thread with Courageous last week, and
>thought
>> I'd ask for others' views.
><snip>
>
>First, I don't know why you would get flamed for this post at all. This is
>actually something that I believe to be true. (Speaking as a Filipina
>raised here in the states)
Actually, Lydia, I think you should tell the group what it took for you
to convince me you were interested. This might give some insight into what
different clues mean, and how they might be misinterpreted.....
Me.
Muttley the Wonder Dog
t...@delphi.com wrote in message ...
>"Lydia Pena Simone" <ly...@dabrieo.com> writes:
>
>But as I don't know Tagalog (yet!! :), I miss the joking part. Though my
>asawa-to-be always wonders where I pick up the bits of Tagalog that I use
>with her. Being Filipina she assumes there's another Filipina teaching
>me, but my instructor is a male co-worker.
Trust me on this, Filipinas can come up with some wild assumptions about
other women in your life. They seem to thrive on paranoia.
Some examples : (Sorry, Lydia, but you know these are true)
1) At the grocery store if you acknowledge the cashier when she's handing
you your change, you will be assumed to have been flirting with her.
2) Any female friends of yours are immediately suspect, and cause for
jealousy, no matter how openly dyke this friend is.
3) God forbid she perceives your friend's wife to be more attractive than
she is, whether you think it or not.
4) Change companies now. Go look for a place that only employs men, only
caters to male clientele, and has no female reps/fedex people/etc.
It strikes me that all the Filipinas I have ever met have come
pre-programmed with an inferiority complex. They will assume that you are
going to run off with the first woman who looks twice at you. Be prepared to
reassure her 50 or 60 times per hour that you are solely devoted to only
her, and that there is nothing that can come between you. When she asks, "Is
that woman more attractive than me?" If there are only three of you in the
room, you, your wife, and that other woman, the only correct answer is stare
into your wife's eyes, and say, "What woman?" Any other answer you give will
be wrong.
And never, ever eat anything that they call "Chocolate Meat."
Just my humble opinion.
Me.
Muttley the Wonder Dog
Lydia Pena Simone wrote in message
>You know I made the same assumption when Mutt and I were engaged/married
>and I *know* my sister has as well.
YOU assumed that EVERY time I wasn't in direct contact with you I was
off with another woman.
>Just remember to have fun with it. Lord knows we do. (BTW have you even
>noticed how many Filipina women are attracted to techies? Strange ...)
Techies? Ahem.
>to understand that one. (Ask Mutt he knew when my aunts were giggling over
>him)
At him, you mean....
>(BTW CONGRATULATIONS! And if you notice all those
>white-men-who-have-married-Filipina-women support groups... don't bring it
>up to your wife. Just don't...)
Oh, Amen, praise Sweet Jesus. Do *not* bring it up to her. Tell her it's
your bowling league night. Tell her your out with another woman. Just do not
bring up that you're trying to get insight into her mind, or she will kill
you.
But definately join the support group.
And don't even think about getting divorced. For some reason, those
Filipina chicks have a way of keeping you long after the marriage ends.
Trust me on this one.
Me
nutm...@my-dejanews.com
Courageous <jkra...@san.rr.com> wrote:
> > >> Women *like* being flirted with. That's the secret.
>
> > I think you better put a disclaimer on that.
> > More like being flirted with by the right guy(s).
>
> Any normal, healthy adult... irrespective of gender,
> male or female... generally finds it flattering to
> find that someone is attracted to them. It's when
> these attentions are overt and too direct that it
> becomes a problem.
Not all the time, sometimes it is the directness that makes it.
It just has to be the right person.
>
> There has never been a time in my entire adult life
> that I wasn't pleased to know that a woman found me
> attractive, even if I didn't feel the same.
>
> What is stressful is when they force the issue.
> I've spoken with enough women about this to know
> that the feeling is generally mutual.
There is nothing worse than someone forcing themselves on you when you are not
interested.
>
> The mistake is thinking that women are so different
> than men. They are, but... not as much as you think.
>
> C/
I think they are very different.
Firting with touch comes to mind.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
t...@delphi.com
>> Not while I'm here you won't, says DB the proverbial Immovable Object.
>
>'american women opinion' (hereinafter referred to only as awo) irritates
>me.
>
>thanks for the chuckle!
THat line comes from college. One on occasion, a few of us were in a friend's
room, enjoying some malt beverages. The friend's roomate tried to get in, so
I stood against the door. The ensuing conversation went thusly:
"Don't bother trying to get in, Dave. There's an immovable object in the
way."
(someone else) "A proverbial immovable object."
>> Though you may have some success starting March 18th, when I leave for my
>> wedding.
>
>to (your wedding, doofus, not your absence)
an American woman, so I'm not risking my future on a coin toss (50% divorce
rate) ;-D
Though no doubt a few here look forward to my absence :-)
DB
t...@delphi.com
>>But as I don't know Tagalog (yet!! :), I miss the joking part. Though my
>>asawa-to-be always wonders where I pick up the bits of Tagalog that I use
>>with her. Being Filipina she assumes there's another Filipina teaching
>>me, but my instructor is a male co-worker.
>
>
> Trust me on this, Filipinas can come up with some wild assumptions about
>other women in your life. They seem to thrive on paranoia.
>4) Change companies now. Go look for a place that only employs men, only
>caters to male clientele, and has no female reps/fedex people/etc.
male here.
>It strikes me that all the Filipinas I have ever met have come
>pre-programmed with an inferiority complex. They will assume that you are
>going to run off with the first woman who looks twice at you. Be prepared to
>reassure her 50 or 60 times per hour that you are solely devoted to only
>her, and that there is nothing that can come between you. When she asks, "Is
>that woman more attractive than me?" If there are only three of you in the
>room, you, your wife, and that other woman, the only correct answer is stare
>into your wife's eyes, and say, "What woman?" Any other answer you give will
>be wrong.
mistresses as a matter of course.
It is going to be a challenge, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
DB
Muttley the Wonder Dog
t...@delphi.com wrote in message <55R1t...@delphi.com>...
>"Muttley the Wonder Dog" <mutt...@bellsouth.net> writes:
>> Trust me on this, Filipinas can come up with some wild assumptions
about
>>other women in your life. They seem to thrive on paranoia.
>
>
>Yep, I'm well aware of this already.
>
>
But don't let them know you think they're paranoid. They'll never let
you forget it.
>
>It is going to be a challenge, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
Yeah.....that's the way to look at it. Mine already flamed me for calling
her paranoid...
Me.
Parerga
>> Not entirely related, but I've had some good success with Net personals,
>> where the first contact is by printed word only. No "signals", or posture,
>> or gestures, or eye contact, or inflections, or tones.
>
>Yes... and often times by the time you get there, you
>feel very comfortable with that person the first time.
>People who get nervous on approaches to strange women
>might seize up, giving off the I'm-scared-to-shit-signal,
>which is a major turn off to women, even when they find
>you attractive.
This rings very true to me. I have given out the I'm-scared-to-shit-signal
all too often. It' such a little thing really : knowing how to flirt, being
unconcerned about the outcome. But when you really can't, it becomes a big
thing.
>
>I've found that even women seize up on first dates some
>times, putting up a major affective wall; I can say for
>a fact that even when a woman is attractive, she is less
>attractive to me when she doesn't show positive body
>language and facial expressions back. I have failed to
>return phone calls to women who seemed disinterested
>in me affectively, only to get further follow up calls
>where they later showed a definite interest. Confusing
>sometimes, this is.
>
>This in and of itself could be a severe handicap to
>anyone in the dating game that doesn't know how to flirt
>properly. That playful-I-like-you-don't-you-wish-you-
>can-have-me signal isn't there.
>
>And so the interest is lost.
>
>C/
Parerga