Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Anyone see UFO on the Obsession tour?

169 views
Skip to first unread message

Stargazer

unread,
Nov 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/4/98
to

Would love to hear impressions of those shows and how they match up to
the brilliance on "Strangers...."


ELS/RLS

unread,
Nov 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/4/98
to
Have a ticket in front of me from Thursday, Sept 21, 1978. Orchestra CTR,
Row DD, Seat 105. U~F~O at the Morris Stage in Morristown, New Jersey.

But I'll be damned if I remember any of it! That'd really be scraping
the gray matter, from days of yore!

All I do know is that the Master himself was there which left an
indelible impression on me for all the days since then.

~Eric Schenker


Stargazer wrote in message <3640C07E...@nospam.ufo>...

rick smallwood

unread,
Nov 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/5/98
to
In article <3640C07E...@nospam.ufo>,
Stargazer <major...@nospam.ufo> wrote:

>
>Would love to hear impressions of those shows and how they match up to
>the brilliance on "Strangers...."
>

I saw them in Fort Worth opening for Blue Oyster Cult way back when.
What I can remember is that I was pleased with their performance that
night, as were my 2 musician friends.
I felt they were better on this tour than they were the year before
when they opened for Rush at the show I saw in Little Rock.


Rick

smla...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/5/98
to
In article <3640C07E...@nospam.ufo>,
Stargazer <major...@nospam.ufo> wrote:
>
> Would love to hear impressions of those shows and how they match up to
> the brilliance on "Strangers...."
>
>

I saw them October 22nd, 1978 in Burlington Iowa on their Obsession tour.
They were headling with 'The Boyz' as an opening act. It was a brilliant,
tight, inspirational show. I saw them on their SITN tour with Paul Chapman
and was very disappointed. I was unaware that Schenker had left, and thought
that Chapman was a lame, sweaty replacement. Judas Priest opened up for them
and performed much better that UFO.

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

tl...@xnet.com

unread,
Nov 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/5/98
to
I saw them Oct 13 1978 in Chicago, the show they used for strangers. They
didn't really use much for Strangers though. It was a great show. Lots of
tunes off Obsession, Only You,Pack it up, Hot n Ready,Ain't no Baby.
Dissapointing that not more of Obsession made it on to Strangers.

In article <3640C07E...@nospam.ufo>,
Stargazer <major...@nospam.ufo> wrote:
>
> Would love to hear impressions of those shows and how they match up to
> the brilliance on "Strangers...."
>
>

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------

cpfr...@steigers.com

unread,
Nov 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/5/98
to
Although I unfortunately did not see UFO
in 1978 (I was 13 at the time), I have two
bootlegs from 1978 with Schenker. It may
not have been the same as being there, but
having them in my hands now I think is
more valuable than trying to remember
what it was like 20 years ago.

One of the shows was recorded in Chicago.
When I obtained it, I excitedly assumed it
was the Strangers show. Listening to that
tape has made me very suspicious about the
authenticity of Strangers as an actual
concert recording in Chicago. Here's why.

The 1978 Chicago show I have taped is
identical to Strangers in only one regard -
the "Hello Chicago! Would you please
welcome from England U-F-O!"
introduction. It is the exact same intro used
on Strangers. However, listening to the
bootleg concert versus Strangers, the set list
was very different and NONE of the guitar
solos are the same as on Strangers - they
aren't nearly as good. The set list is similar,
but not identical. The bootleg has a lot of
Obsession on it and much less Force It. In
fact, the show opened with Hot n Ready
and did not include Natural Thing at all.
Strangers includes just Only You Can Rock
Me. Kind of suspicious since that was the
Obsession tour. The 1978 Chicago boot
includes Hot n Ready, Pack it Up and Go,
Cherry, Aint No Baby and OYCRM.

Getting back to the original question - no,
the quality of the live performances I have
on tape from 1978 is no where near as clean
and brilliant as Strangers. Not even close.
The musical pace was much faster and
more chaotic. Strangers is much slower
and more deliberate, and absolutely cleaner
and tighter.

Comparing the two - you can't help but to
believe Strangers was recorded over
numerous nights/takes with overdubs.
Has to be. If you hear the 1978 boots, you
will know what I mean. Strangers is one of
the greatest albums ever recorded - I think
it's brilliant. But, I doubt it was done as
people assume it was - in one incredible
night in Chicago. My theory - that
Strangers was actually recorded during
soundchecks on a stage, but not live and
spontaneously in front of all those fans and
that the cheering audience and solos were
overdubbed. The band introduction on
Strangers is overdubbed - absolutely no
question about it. Strangers is way too clean
and perfect, relative to the actual live
recordings I have to be a real spontaneous
concert recorded in one (or two) nights.

I have now donned my asbestos suit, so let
the flaming begin........

Crawford Lee Seals

unread,
Nov 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/5/98
to

cpfr...@steigers.com wrote in message <71tbac$m4f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...


I don't know what the history of "Strangers" is, however, it was almost the
rule in the 70's that live albums were GENEROUSLY overdubbed. In fact, it
is somewhat well known that such famous live recordings as Priest's
"Unleashed in the East" and Lizzy's "Live and Dangerous" were almost 75%
studio outtakes. I'm sure you guys could cite 10 more examples of famous
70's "live" that weren't so live. However, I don't think such "trickery" as
it were really diminishes the quality of such an album as an enjoyable and
alternate representation of an artist's work. In all three of the
aforementioned "live" albums, the arrangements and tempos were varied in a
manner that actually enhanced them. However, I do kinda believe they should
let you know the degree of studio "tampering". You should know what you're
getting.

Crawdad

David Lister

unread,
Nov 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/6/98
to
In article <71tbac$m4f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, cpfr...@steigers.com
writes

>I have now donned my asbestos suit, so let
>the flaming begin........

No flame here, I assure you. I am currently talking to wh from ufoa2z
about such things believe it or not. Live albums from the 70's and 80's
were mainly notorious for being anything but live!! As MS was probably a
bit of a 'soaky' by then, the chances of him hitting all those solo's in
one night are pretty slim! Actually, the chances of him hitting the
stage in free fall were, reputedly, much higher.

Wh tells me that the songs on SITN were recorded on various nights over
various years. IMO the lack of 'obsession' stuff supports this.

Don't get me wrong here, like you I love 'strangers', but like you, for
what it is, rather than what people think it might be.

(oops, just read crawdad's post, pretty similar, sorry!)

"Lights out, lights out Chicago"
__________________________________________________________________
Big Sister Lister davidatm3-motorsportdotdemondotcodotuk
http://www.m3-motorsport.demon.co.uk

Jethro

unread,
Nov 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/6/98
to
I saw them in Dubuque , Iowa do this show. AC/DC opened up and were freakin
great of course and we were asking each other "how the hell can UFO beat
that?" All I remember is..they came out, did the Strangers album pretty much
and we all agreed they pulled it off and showed why they were not the
opening act. One of the best shows I ever saw. Right up there with YES and
Tull shows!!!


smla...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<71skut$jjv$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...


>In article <3640C07E...@nospam.ufo>,
> Stargazer <major...@nospam.ufo> wrote:
>>
>> Would love to hear impressions of those shows and how they match up to
>> the brilliance on "Strangers...."
>>
>>
>

>I saw them October 22nd, 1978 in Burlington Iowa on their Obsession tour.
>They were headling with 'The Boyz' as an opening act. It was a brilliant,
>tight, inspirational show. I saw them on their SITN tour with Paul Chapman
>and was very disappointed. I was unaware that Schenker had left, and
thought
>that Chapman was a lame, sweaty replacement. Judas Priest opened up for
them
>and performed much better that UFO.
>

j_an...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/7/98
to
In article <71tbac$m4f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
cpfr...@steigers.com wrote:

> I have now donned my asbestos suit, so let
> the flaming begin........

This is indeed interesting. I also have the boot called
"Hot-n-Ready" from 1978, and when listening to it for the
first time, I was in the same way surprised to find how
much it seperated from "Strangers" in musical quality.
To some extent this could probably be explained by the
fact that it wasn´t produced and that the actual sound is
kind of horrendous. But yes, it is paced and not near as
sharp. Now, anyone who has followed UFO´s rather
bumpy ride over the years would not be surprised to find
that some of their live performances, even back in ´78, might
have been a bit sloppy, considering the intake of various drugs.
But when hearing this disc and comparing it to "Strangers" one
begins to wonder. I always thought in my foolishness that
Strangers was recorded on one or two "magic" evenings when
everything worked the way it should and the band reached their
full potential. Michael´s solos, for instance, are so brilliant
and unearthly on Strangers that you would think he was blessed
by the Lord himself those nights. But were they played there
and then? I have always had the feeling, years before first
hearing about overdubs on live albums, that Michael´s guitar
solo on "Natural Thing" was an overdub. The sound of the solo
differs a lot from the ones on the other songs (for instance
there´s not nearly as much reverb on that solo, is it?). And,
it may be my imagination, but I think it is very notable that
his rhythm playing just the second before the solo starts
doesn´t match with the start of the solo. It sounds like the
solo is, a bit roughly, *put over* the original song, actually
before Michael even is through playing his rhythm chords.
We´re talking nano seconds here. For those of you that don´t
understand what I´m trying to say: It sounds like there are two
guitarist + the keybords. It *sounds* like it is Paul Raymond
that plays rhythm guitar and stops about the time that Schenker
starts his solo, but it isn´t! He plays keyboard *while* Michael
are busy with his chord, he *then* shifts to rhythm guitar as
Michael starts his solo.
Am I crazy or have anyone else thought about this? Would appreciate
your views.

Jan

j_an...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/7/98
to

In article <720b3e$7f6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
j_an...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> Am I crazy or has anyone else thought about this? Would appreciate
> your views.
>
> Jan

Just wanted to add: I read an article about MSG in Kerrang! a long
time ago (the early eighties) where Schenker and Barden discussed
the recording of the Budokan album. As I recall it, Schenker was
stating that there were no overdubs on that album (like this fact
was something new). Then Barden simply said (addressing
Schenker): "Liar!"
Does anyone else remember this?
Were both "Strangers" and "ONAB" partly overdubbed?
Has anyone shared my thoughts concerning the "Natural Thing" solo?

Stargazer

unread,
Nov 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/11/98
to
There were overdubs on "Strangers" (just listen to Phil's voice in the
OYCRM choruses) but I kind of hoped that they weren't as excessive as
I'm reading about here. (There are some really obvious punch-ins on
"Budokan") The theories I'm reading sound very reasonable though. It's
kind of like Toto pulling back the curtain to reveal that the mighty Oz
is just a man. (Two unintentional rock references there) But I'm not
bitter.

However they got the sounds on tape, those sounds still rank "Strangers"
as my favorite album of all time. Period.

I remember the power of my first ever rock concert: UFO w/Tonka in a big
hall on the NPTRun tour back in '80/'81. I was what, 15? 16? The magic
of that night took me away completely. The volume of the sound, the
brilliance of the lights. I was totally wrapped up in the illusion of a
big-time rock show. It was fantastic. Each successive concert I went
to after that, the illusion seemed to fade a little. I started to be
less blown away, and pay more attention to what was going on in the
background to create such wonderful experiences. The illusion faded and
I never quite got back that feeling I had at those first shows when the
illusion was complete and unspoiled.

I don't feel cheated or anything like that. I feel very grateful for
the experiences of both concerts and overdubbed live albums. I've
always wanted a boot from the Obsession tour, but reading about them
here, I think I'll be happier just playing "Strangers," putting my
rational mind on hold, and letting myself get wrapped up in the illusion
as much as possible.


Mentzie

unread,
Nov 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/11/98
to
Stargazer wrote:
There were overdubs on "Strangers" (just listen to Phil's voice in the
OYCRM choruses) but I kind of hoped that they weren't as excessive as
I'm reading about here.  (There are some really obvious punch-ins on
"Budokan")  The theories I'm reading sound very reasonable though.  It's
kind of like Toto pulling back the curtain to reveal that the mighty Oz
is just a man. (Two unintentional rock references there)  But I'm not
bitter.
Budokan may as well just be live crowd noises, it is sooooo overdubbed, but so what, when I saw MSG in the early 80's, that is how I remember then, as on Budokan, not as on RWND, which is closer to the truth, and is a shit filler IMHO
 

However they got the sounds on tape, those sounds still rank "Strangers"
as my favorite album of all time.  Period.
 

Not my fave, but in my top 10
 

I remember the power of my first ever rock concert: UFO w/Tonka in a big
hall on the NPTRun tour back in '80/'81.  I was what, 15? 16?  The magic
of that night took me away completely.  The volume of the sound, the
brilliance of the lights.  I was totally wrapped up in the illusion of a
big-time rock show.  It was fantastic.  Each successive concert I went
to after that, the illusion seemed to fade a little. I started to be
less blown away, and pay more attention to what was going on in the
background to create such wonderful experiences.  The illusion faded and
I never quite got back that feeling I had at those first shows when the
illusion was complete and unspoiled.

Yeah, when I was 11, I was taken to see UFO, the above para sums it up. Do you remember the sound?, boy was it good. Now if you were to listen to most bootlegs, they sound shit, even if you were there.

I don't feel cheated or anything like that.  I feel very grateful for
the experiences of both concerts and overdubbed live albums.   I've
always wanted a boot from the Obsession tour, but reading about them
here, I think I'll be happier just playing "Strangers," putting my
rational mind on hold, and letting myself get wrapped up in the illusion
as much as possible.

You have a comrade on that one. Im sure the 25years CD has some dubbing on it too!!
 

--
Linux, Something GNU to do.
===========================
 

Harry Teratoma

unread,
Nov 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/11/98
to
My first was Scorpions on the Animal Magnetism tour. I was 16 and it was
magic. I guess it's like a first love, if you knew what the hell was going
on, and had something to compare it to, maybe you'd be a little more
critical.

mr...@hotmail.com

unread,
Nov 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/12/98
to

Let's do some detective work:
First of all, Freeman, are you positive that the
date on your Chicago boot is correct? Are you positive
that the show you have was recorded in Chicago?
Are you sure that UFO only played in Chicago once
in 1978?
Have you heard any boots from the Louisville show(s)?

For what it's worth, it's been said that Schenker tried
to block the release of Strangers...Why? Why would he
wanna hide a double album's worth of jawdropping performances?
Perhaps it indeed contains overdubs--and maybe he thought about
it for awhile and realized that if people heard it they would
come to the shows expecting the same kind of mindblowing
performances--only to be terribly disappointed...

I don't know....I truly hope there aren't any overdubs...
Since reading your post, Freeman, I have listened very
closely to Strangers and have been unable to determine
the presence of overdubs. I pay close attention to both
the keyboards and the rhythym guitar just to see if I
can hear two guitars while the keyboard is being played, but
I haven't heard any slip-ups...(And yet, if you listen to
"The Song Remains The Same" without hearing any boots from
7/27/73, 7/28/73, and 7/29/73, you'd never know that Page had
cut and pasted and created hybrids...)

I have heard three UFO concert recordings: "BBC 80/74",
"Roundhouse '76", and "Where There's A Pete, There's A Way" and
none of them match the brilliance of Strangers...

(On "Where There's a Pete..." there are songs from various
BBC sessions that obviously contain overdubs, but the solos
don't sound nearly as good as what we hear on Strangers...)

If Schenker did indeed "punch-in" various solos, did he
punch-in note for note? I mean, how can you kick so much
ass in a studio but not measure up to it on stage?

I'll tell you this: If there ARE overdubs on Strangers then
they are magnificent...and yet, if I find out for sure that
they exist, then I will have to knock Schenker down a few
notches on my list of favorite guitarists...He's been #1
up til now, followed by Neal Schon, Joe Satriani, Jimmy Page,
blah, blah, blah...(Of course none of them compare to Hendrix
and it wouldn't be fair to do so)....

Shit, will we ever find out "officially" if Schenker punched-in
some (or most) of those solos on Strangers? I doubt it...
Then again, maybe someone could ask Ron Nevison or Mike Clink...

Ah well, this whole fucken world is phony...it's all a confusing
illusion...fuck it. Thank goodness we get to die and forget all
about it.

> 3640C07E...@nospam.ufo>,
> Stargazer <major...@nospam.ufo>
> wrote:
> >
> > Would love to hear impressions of those shows and how they match up to
> > the brilliance on "Strangers...."
> >
> >
>

Stargazer

unread,
Nov 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/12/98
to
I put on headphones and had a really close listen to the "Natural Thing"
solo, that Jan A. had a hunch was overdubbed. While I don't hear any
overlap of two rhythym guitars under the opening notes, Michael's rhythm
does seem to roll off sharply and unnaturally (pun intended) a
nanosecond before the solo begins. To me, it sounds like a fader on a
mixing console rolling off Michael's rhythm track just before an
overdubbed solo.

I've read/heard interviews w/Michael where he has described how he often
records solos in the studio using a common practice where he records
many solos, then bits and pieces of each solo are spliced together to
form the final go you hear on the record. If you slam Michael for this,
you'll probably have to slam the vast majority of all guitarists. It's
commonly done, to differing degrees, and it's usually done so well that
you can't tell when listening, which is kind of the point.

Knowing this, and listening to the "Natural Thing" solo closely, to me
it does sound spliced together. I hear at least three fairly glaring
edits, probably six, and perhaps more if they were done really well.
The opening of the solo is edit one, at 2:55, then I hear others at
3:03, 3:06, 3:10, 3:16, and the final one as the solo ends at 3:23. The
ones that seem to stand out the most are at 2:55, 3:06, and 3:16.

Some people will say that I've just marked the beginnings of certain
runs and of course there is a natural break in the sound between each of
them, and the illusion of splices may be reinforced by open strings
being hit inadvertently while his hands switch position, that kind of
thing. They may be right, but having heard those interviews, and
listening really closely through headphones, and adding in my cynical
mind,...I think the whole solo is an overdubbed "mosaic."

While it would be nice if it was a one-off live take. I'm not that let
down in my belief that it's dubbed. Michael is still #1 in my book.
His unerring sense of melody is just too dominating for me to knock him
off the #1 slot for doing things with his recordings that 9 out of 10
guitarists (probably) also do.

And yes, I agree that this world is phony and unfair and just an
illusion most of the time, but I'm not looking forward to opting out
anytime soon because of it.

I'm curious to hear what others have to say, and also curious about the
Louisville show(s) also mentioned in the "Strangers" jacket.

Final note: I've seen Michael live many times and he has pulled of many,
many long amazing solos on stage right in front of my eyes. On one of
the 90's reunion UFO tours, where they basically did the "Strangers"
set, he knocked down all the solos, almost note-for-note in many cases,
right there. So it's not like he can't cut it live, which some people
have murmured here in the group. He may have used more overdubs on
"Strangers" than any of us would care to know about, but he's still
Michael, still a monster, and still #1 to me.


j_an...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/12/98
to
In article <364B2278...@nospam.ufo.msg.rjd.dlr.bon>,
Stargazer <atomi...@nospam.ufo.msg.rjd.dlr.bon> wrote:

> I put on headphones and had a really close listen to the "Natural Thing"
> solo, that Jan A. had a hunch was overdubbed. While I don't hear any
> overlap of two rhythym guitars under the opening notes, Michael's rhythm
> does seem to roll off sharply and unnaturally (pun intended) a
> nanosecond before the solo begins. To me, it sounds like a fader on a
> mixing console rolling off Michael's rhythm track just before an
> overdubbed solo.

Thanks for sharing this. I had a feeling I was imagining things there
for a while. The more I listen to it, Michael´s rhythm guitar really rolls
off in a distinct way just before the start of the solo - but the thing
that always caught my attention during the years is the sound. I´ve
always felt that solo had a studio "atmosphere". The sound is very
different, just compare with the one on "Out in the Street" or "OYCRM".
The echo is totally different. In fact, I don´t think I have played
"Natural Thing" once without imagining Michael in the studio, sweating
out that solo, and I always thought: How come he went *back* once more
to do the overdub? It must have been terribly embarrassing for him. And
the original solo must have been pretty shabby.
Don´t bother thinking about what I said about double rhythm guitars,
I was in a hurry when I wrote it and I didn´t make myself clear.

> I've read/heard interviews w/Michael where he has described how he often
> records solos in the studio using a common practice where he records
> many solos, then bits and pieces of each solo are spliced together to
> form the final go you hear on the record. If you slam Michael for this,
> you'll probably have to slam the vast majority of all guitarists. It's
> commonly done, to differing degrees, and it's usually done so well that
> you can't tell when listening, which is kind of the point.

It´s a wonder these guys dare stand on stage at all, so far from the
mixing machines.

> Knowing this, and listening to the "Natural Thing" solo closely, to me
> it does sound spliced together. I hear at least three fairly glaring
> edits, probably six, and perhaps more if they were done really well.
> The opening of the solo is edit one, at 2:55, then I hear others at
> 3:03, 3:06, 3:10, 3:16, and the final one as the solo ends at 3:23. The
> ones that seem to stand out the most are at 2:55, 3:06, and 3:16.
>
> Some people will say that I've just marked the beginnings of certain
> runs and of course there is a natural break in the sound between each of
> them, and the illusion of splices may be reinforced by open strings
> being hit inadvertently while his hands switch position, that kind of
> thing. They may be right, but having heard those interviews, and
> listening really closely through headphones, and adding in my cynical
> mind,...I think the whole solo is an overdubbed "mosaic."

I put on my headphones too, but I´m not to sure about the mosaic theory.
This is indeed a tricky one.

> While it would be nice if it was a one-off live take. I'm not that let
> down in my belief that it's dubbed. Michael is still #1 in my book.
> His unerring sense of melody is just too dominating for me to knock him
> off the #1 slot for doing things with his recordings that 9 out of 10
> guitarists (probably) also do.

I´m let down. And I´m really let down if it turns out more solos
than "NT", or other playing, is overdubbed. Really, I´ve been carrying
that album with me in my heart as a divine experience. I don´t
want to wake up to find it´s just another illusion!

> Final note: I've seen Michael live many times and he has pulled of many,
> many long amazing solos on stage right in front of my eyes. On one of
> the 90's reunion UFO tours, where they basically did the "Strangers"
> set, he knocked down all the solos, almost note-for-note in many cases,
> right there. So it's not like he can't cut it live, which some people
> have murmured here in the group. He may have used more overdubs on
> "Strangers" than any of us would care to know about, but he's still
> Michael, still a monster, and still #1 to me.

A monster, yeah, you could say that again. But I agree. He will always
be no. 1., no one else is even close. And I also saw him play superbly
in ´97. And just look at that concert footage in the "Too Hot to Handle"
video - that wasn´t overdubbed, was it? His playing live can be as good
as in the studio. I guess he just had bad luck with one (???) of the solos
on "Strangers" and of course all of the people involved wanted the
album to be put together without any obvious mistakes shown to the
public.
But it´s hard not to be bitter about it, isn´t it?

Jan

Stargazer

unread,
Nov 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/12/98
to
I'm glad you brought up the "Too Hot To Handle" video. It's a great bit
of evidence that when Michael is on, he can nail what he goes for on
stage, without having to use the studio to patch things up. Those songs
in the middle of the tape, "Too Hot To Handle," and especially "Lights
Out" and "Let It Roll," are fantastic!! While the solo on "Rock Bottom"
from Strangers is obviously his showcase, and my favorite solo of all
time, the solo in "Let It Roll" isn't that far behind. It's so good!,
and it's right there on the video, which I doubt was overdubbed.
Although now you've got me curious to go back and turn a critical ear to
it. :)

I'm really curious to listen to the rest of Strangers now with a more
critical ear, to see what else might pop up. I'll try to not post any
opinions on specifics unless asked for them though.

There was a time when I would've been really bitter about discovering
serious overdubbing on something that I too held in almost religious awe
as "divinely" inspired music. (99 out of 100 records will have at least
some little punch-ins on them, I think the whole "Natural Thing" solo
qualifies as a fairly serious overdub.) But I honestly am not that
bummed out about it, even on "Strangers," my favorite album of all
time. I don't know. I think it might just fall into the "people are
only human" category, even immensely talented people.

To have a beer with Ron Nevison or Mike Clink would certainly be
something to look forward too though wouldn't it? If we could count on
them to tell it like it really happened.

-The ever present Denny Godber
:)

mr...@hotmail.com

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to
I gotta tell you, Jan & Stargazer, it sure was good to
hear from you guys. I appreciate the intelligent comments
and ideas that you guys provided in your posts.

I too have held Strangers very close to my heart since 1983.
No other concert album has impressed me more.
However,I truly believed it was an authentic document of some
magical nights when Schenker was incredibly focused and inspired.
To seriously consider the possibility that the album contains
"fake" solos just breaks my heart like you wouldn't believe.
I know that sounds childish and silly, but it can't be helped.
If it turns out that the verdict is as bad as we fear, then I
will wish I had never heard Strangers. It would've been good enough
to simply hold Schenker in high esteem based on his studio work.
But to find out that I've been cheated and tricked into believing
that the performances on Strangers were actual and unmolested...

If the solos ARE "fake", well, he still deserves to be applauded
because they are jawdropping...but why couldn't he have learned
them well enough to play them in concert? Isn't that what "most"
guitarists do? I mean, working off your assertion that most guitarists
stitch together their solos for their studio albums, don't they then
learn the hybrids so they can at least approximate them in concert?
I'm just thinking aloud...these are obviously rhetorical questions...

Did either one of you (or anyone else who is reading this) ever read
or hear about Schenker trying to stop the release of Strangers? If he
did, don't you think it was because it dawned on him that people like
us would hear the album and then go to the concerts expecting him to
kick the same amount of ass--only to be terribly disappointed?

I went and saw UFO at The Edge in Palo Alto, California sometime in
'95 or '96. Schenker was with them. Before the show began, I was so
excited that I thought I was gonna burst. Mind you, I took into
consideration that Schenker probably was not gonna be able to play
as fast or inspired as he had done 20 years earlier, but I was
devastated by his performance that night. I assure you that he
did not nail one fucken solo the whole night. I have literally
heard teenagers play his songs a million times better. It was so
goddamn bad that me and my friend left during Rock Bottom. And what
made it all the more sickening was the fact that most of the audience
cheered and carried on as if everything was hunky-dory...

When we got to the car, I told my friend that maybe Schenker
was ill. My friend responded by saying that it sounded like Schenker
hadn't practiced. I thought that was a ridiculous thing to say! Why
would the Master need to practice what he probably could play in
his sleep? No, this wasn't a case of a lack of practice. It was a
case of "not having it" anymore. And shit, for all I know, the poor
guy might suffer from arthritis...Nonetheless, I shrugged my shoulders
and didn't take it TOO hard. I said to my friend, "well, at least we
have Strangers In The Night".

Yea, and now this...

Still, let's keep up the detective work. It's a well known fact
that many bootlegs have the wrong dates and venues listed. You would
think that if Freeman truly has a bootleg from one of the nights
in Chicago used for Strangers, then he would be able to match up
at least SOME of the vocals and guitars...I sure would like a copy
to do my own comparison...And let us not forget about the Louisville
show(s)...For all we know, Schenker really did perform those solos in
concert...I mean, if he could do them in a studio, don't you think
with a little practice he could pull em off in concert? I have a video
of MSG at the Hammersmith Odeon 1984 for the Built To Destroy tour, and
Schenker plays his MSG solos like a pro! He really does. And with such
ease and grace, too. He makes it look so easy! However, for some odd
reason, I'm not touched by most of his MSG solos...I don't know why...
They are very good, but my god, they seem so little and insignificant
compared to his UFO stuff...

Dig, many who post to music related newsgroups are nothing but
loyalists. They are of the same ilk that were at that concert
at The Edge. They never say anything negative about their favorites.
Fuck that. If someone puts out a shitty album or puts on an ugly
performance, then I'm gonna call a spade a spade. Afterall, an ugly
show or lame album does not contaminate the previous efforts that
kicked ass, know what I mean?

Lastly, I sure would like to see a database of UFO info. I want
it to contain a list of all the shows they performed, all of the
known bootlegs (including intelligent reviews and sound ratings), all
of the known interviews, and as much bio info as possible. To date I have
found very little. The "Misty Green & Blue" website is a total
disappointment...If you type in "Trampled Underground" into your nearest
search engine, you'll make your way to a very good Zeppelin bootleg
website...Yea, if only there was one about UFO that was nearly as good...
Who knows, maybe within the next 20 years I will have amassed enough
info to create my own UFO website...I hope so. They absolutely deserve it.

Mr. 1:15

In article,


Stargazer <atomi...@nospam.ufo.msg.rjd.dlr.bon> wrote:
> I put on headphones and had a really close listen to the "Natural Thing"
> solo, that Jan A. had a hunch was overdubbed. While I don't hear any
> overlap of two rhythym guitars under the opening notes, Michael's rhythm
> does seem to roll off sharply and unnaturally (pun intended) a
> nanosecond before the solo begins. To me, it sounds like a fader on a
> mixing console rolling off Michael's rhythm track just before an
> overdubbed solo.
>

> I've read/heard interviews w/Michael where he has described how he often
> records solos in the studio using a common practice where he records
> many solos, then bits and pieces of each solo are spliced together to
> form the final go you hear on the record. If you slam Michael for this,
> you'll probably have to slam the vast majority of all guitarists. It's
> commonly done, to differing degrees, and it's usually done so well that
> you can't tell when listening, which is kind of the point.
>

> Knowing this, and listening to the "Natural Thing" solo closely, to me
> it does sound spliced together. I hear at least three fairly glaring
> edits, probably six, and perhaps more if they were done really well.
> The opening of the solo is edit one, at 2:55, then I hear others at
> 3:03, 3:06, 3:10, 3:16, and the final one as the solo ends at 3:23. The
> ones that seem to stand out the most are at 2:55, 3:06, and 3:16.
>
> Some people will say that I've just marked the beginnings of certain
> runs and of course there is a natural break in the sound between each of
> them, and the illusion of splices may be reinforced by open strings
> being hit inadvertently while his hands switch position, that kind of
> thing. They may be right, but having heard those interviews, and
> listening really closely through headphones, and adding in my cynical
> mind,...I think the whole solo is an overdubbed "mosaic."
>

> While it would be nice if it was a one-off live take. I'm not that let
> down in my belief that it's dubbed. Michael is still #1 in my book.
> His unerring sense of melody is just too dominating for me to knock him
> off the #1 slot for doing things with his recordings that 9 out of 10
> guitarists (probably) also do.
>

> And yes, I agree that this world is phony and unfair and just an
> illusion most of the time, but I'm not looking forward to opting out
> anytime soon because of it.
>
> I'm curious to hear what others have to say, and also curious about the
> Louisville show(s) also mentioned in the "Strangers" jacket.
>

> Final note: I've seen Michael live many times and he has pulled of many,
> many long amazing solos on stage right in front of my eyes. On one of
> the 90's reunion UFO tours, where they basically did the "Strangers"
> set, he knocked down all the solos, almost note-for-note in many cases,
> right there. So it's not like he can't cut it live, which some people
> have murmured here in the group. He may have used more overdubs on
> "Strangers" than any of us would care to know about, but he's still
> Michael, still a monster, and still #1 to me.
>
>

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------

bia...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to
In article <364B7CDD...@nospam.ufo.msg.rjd.dlr.bon>,

Sorry guys, but I thought everybody knew that there is no such thing as a
live album. The crowd noises for StrangersŠ were taken from a Rolling Stones
live album. This is fact. Incidentally, good to see two name checks for Denny
Godber ­ hairdresser to the stars ­ on this site. I have met Denny on a
couple of occasions as he trawls the pubs in South London and believe he
still cuts Mogg's hair. -- Hair by Godber

Stargazer

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to
Mr. 1:15,

I agree with you about how good it feels to talk about UFO/Michael.
Years go by, especially before the Internet, if we can remember back
that far :), when I feel I'm the last remaining appreciater of this
stuff.

Maybe the "patchwork" on Strangers isn't that extensive. The
possibility exists that it is, but I can still put it on and let myself
believe that it was as magical as it sounds. Rolling Stones crowd
noise? I'm cynical enough to not be that surprised if that, or
something equally deceptive, were true, but I'm going to choose to not
believe that. I've seen him do enough live, in person and on video, to
know that he is capable of delivering what we hear on Strangers, and if
the specific performances that were taped for the album happened to need
some fixing, then I can shrug that off.

I saw UFO at The Edge twice this decade, once on the first reunion tour
('95?), and again on the most recent pass through ('97?). They played
multiple nights both years. I remember the show back in '95 as being
brilliant, the one I was referring to when they did the Strangers set
and Michael nailed the lead breaks cold. Don't remember which night it
was, but I remember how close the solos were because it struck me as
being almost too close, too by-the-numbers. But I laughed because it
seemed like they were saying, "People have been asking for shows like
Strangers for years, well here it is ya' buggers!" and they delivered.
I hope I'm not reliving my memories through rose-colored glasses, and
that the show wasn't really as good as I remember it as having been. I
tend to be critical to a fault, and don't think I'd let it slide if I
saw Michael not up to snuff.

By the time they came to The Edge in '97, the wheels were falling off
again and they disbanded shortly thereafter. They were booked to play
Wed, Thu, and Fri, I believe. On Wed, I read after the fact that they
were horrible. They didn't even finish the set after a Mad Mickey
walk-off, and believe they ended up making up that gig on Sat. I was
there the next night, Thu, and had not heard about the previous night's
debacle yet, which I'm thankful for. I thought they played everything
pretty well. It wasn't a 10 on a 10 scale, but it was a solid 8. I
read on this group from people who saw all the shows that the Fri and
Sat shows were even better. I was down in front, on Michael's side, and
felt the excitement with the other fans down there, and that may have
colored how I felt about the performance, but I really think that it was
pretty good.

That Hammersmith Odeon '84 show sounds good. Is it pro-shot, with
different camera angles, and close ups of his hands? I have an '81 MSG
show from Hamburg from German TV that is great. Cozy Powell really
added some serious punch to that outfit, and Michael's playing is
great. "Lost Horizons" made "Rock Bottom" seem like filler. (That's an
exageration, of course.)

I swear there is (was?) an extensive listing of boots featuring Michael,
in both UFO and MSG, on the web, that I can't find right now. It had
pictures, and track listings much like Wendi's site below. In fact, it
might have been at Wendi's site, but she may have changed it around and
removed some of the listings of MSG boots. I'm not sure. To get you
started......

Here's the URL for the discography currently at Wendi's page, including
boots (it's all UFO):

http://www.ufoa2z.com/discog/discndex.html

Here's one listing from that page for the show that I think Freeman was
talking about in Chicago '78:

"Hot-n-Ready"

Bootleg -- no label nor serial number [Early 1994??]
Recorded at: Chicago, Oct. 13 1978
Special features: This is supposed to be the show recorded for
"Strangers in the Night" -- you be the
judge! Vinyl bootleg circulated years ago under title "Dr. Jekyll & Mr.
Plug"
Sound Quality Rating: JDeso...@aol.com gives it ** (except for the
professionally released single at the
end, which he awards *****)
likewise, Jeff Steinberg (g8if...@netdirect.net) says the disc is good
as far as the music goes but for sound
quality gives tracks 1-13 * and track 14 ****.

Personnel:

Vocals: Phil Mogg
Bass: Pet Way
Drums: Andy Parker
Guitar:Michael Schenker
Keyboards: Paul Raymond

Tracks

1 - Hot 'N' Ready (Live-78)
2 - Pack It Up And Go (Live-78)
3 - Cherry (Live-78)
4 - Let It Roll (Live-78)
5 - Love To Love (Live-78)
6 - Only You Can Rock Me (Live-78)
7 - Ain't No Baby (Live-78)
8 - Out In The Street (Live-78)
9 - Doctor Doctor (Live-78)
10 - Lights Out (Live-78)
11 - Rock Bottom (Live-78)
12 - Too Hot To Handle (Live-78)
13 - Shoot Shoot (Live-78)
14 - On With The Action (Live-78 -- not from concert but from the Doctor
Doctor EP)


Stargazer

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to
I'm pretty cynical, enough to believe the possibility that most of what
ends up on live albums is patchwork and fabrication, but the results
usually sound so good to me that I'm still able to choose to believe
that what I'm hearing is usually really live, with limited back-end
patchwork. Maybe the stuff is really live, maybe it's not so much, it's
probably somewhere in the middle, but I still love it whatever the
truth.

The Godber story is a nice touch. How did you know it was him? Ever
see the boys in the band crawling the pubs?


j_an...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to
In article <364B7CDD...@nospam.ufo.msg.rjd.dlr.bon>,
Stargazer <atomi...@nospam.ufo.msg.rjd.dlr.bon> wrote:

> I'm glad you brought up the "Too Hot To Handle" video. It's a great bit
> of evidence that when Michael is on, he can nail what he goes for on
> stage, without having to use the studio to patch things up. Those songs
> in the middle of the tape, "Too Hot To Handle," and especially "Lights
> Out" and "Let It Roll," are fantastic!! While the solo on "Rock Bottom"
> from Strangers is obviously his showcase, and my favorite solo of all
> time, the solo in "Let It Roll" isn't that far behind. It's so good!,
> and it's right there on the video, which I doubt was overdubbed.
> Although now you've got me curious to go back and turn a critical ear to
> it. :)

You wrote what I was thinking! The solos on that video - especially
"Lights Out" and "Let it Roll" (maybe my 2 fave solos altogether) -
are nothing but outstanding and definitely shows that the man can cut
it live. No question about it. I guess he just had his bad days like
the rest of us from time to time. And the intake of various drinks
and drugs surely didn´t help.

> I'm really curious to listen to the rest of Strangers now with a more
> critical ear, to see what else might pop up. I'll try to not post any
> opinions on specifics unless asked for them though.

Oh, please do. I would be really interested in whatever you´d find.

> There was a time when I would've been really bitter about discovering
> serious overdubbing on something that I too held in almost religious awe
> as "divinely" inspired music. (99 out of 100 records will have at least
> some little punch-ins on them, I think the whole "Natural Thing" solo
> qualifies as a fairly serious overdub.) But I honestly am not that
> bummed out about it, even on "Strangers," my favorite album of all
> time. I don't know. I think it might just fall into the "people are
> only human" category, even immensely talented people.

"Strangers" is my fave album of all time too. In a way I can understand
if they wanted the record to be faultless; it is probably their most
important recording and apparently they were never better live. But
I can´t help feeling cheated. In a sense the magic is ruined.

> To have a beer with Ron Nevison or Mike Clink would certainly be
> something to look forward too though wouldn't it? If we could count on
> them to tell it like it really happened.

It certainly would. I just have a feeling that beer would taste bitter.

j_an...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to
In article <72gmum$gku$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
mr...@hotmail.com wrote:

> I gotta tell you, Jan & Stargazer, it sure was good to
> hear from you guys. I appreciate the intelligent comments
> and ideas that you guys provided in your posts.

Thanks.

> I too have held Strangers very close to my heart since 1983.
> No other concert album has impressed me more.
> However,I truly believed it was an authentic document of some
> magical nights when Schenker was incredibly focused and inspired.
> To seriously consider the possibility that the album contains
> "fake" solos just breaks my heart like you wouldn't believe.

My first feelings exactly.

> If the solos ARE "fake", well, he still deserves to be applauded
> because they are jawdropping...but why couldn't he have learned
> them well enough to play them in concert? Isn't that what "most"
> guitarists do?

Oh, he did learn them well enough, there are many proofs of this. I
guess he just slipped from time to time. Whether this was due to alcohol,
drugs or pressure I suppose we´ll never know. Remember that he drank
a lot in the seventies and that he always hated being in UFO. The
conditions weren´t the best for making top notch solos.

> Did either one of you (or anyone else who is reading this) ever read
> or hear about Schenker trying to stop the release of Strangers?

I have never heard about it, it does sound weird, but nothing that
is said about this band surprises me these days.

> If he did, don't you think it was because it dawned on him that people
> like us would hear the album and then go to the concerts expecting him
> to kick the same amount of ass--only to be terribly disappointed?

No, I don´t think he was worried about constantly letting people down.
Both he and many of the fans who have seen him live on various occasions
know he can cut it.

> I went and saw UFO at The Edge in Palo Alto, California sometime in
> '95 or '96. Schenker was with them. Before the show began, I was so
> excited that I thought I was gonna burst. Mind you, I took into
> consideration that Schenker probably was not gonna be able to play
> as fast or inspired as he had done 20 years earlier, but I was
> devastated by his performance that night. I assure you that he
> did not nail one fucken solo the whole night.

I guess you were extremely unlucky. I´m no expert, but I don´t recall
hearing about any other performance being that terrible. Maybe there
were many, I don´t know. But I do know that he played brilliantly right
in front of me on two occasions in ´97. And that´s just one of many
reports of the like. Check out the "Too Hot to Handle" video with footage
from ´76 and ´77 (I believe). He´s excellent in it.

> Still, let's keep up the detective work. It's a well known fact
> that many bootlegs have the wrong dates and venues listed. You would
> think that if Freeman truly has a bootleg from one of the nights
> in Chicago used for Strangers, then he would be able to match up
> at least SOME of the vocals and guitars...

One of the first things Mogg says on the ´78 boot is: "Hello Chicago! It´s
good to be back!" I don´t know anything about dates but apparently they had
been in the city not so long before the show. The latter is just a guess.

> However, for some odd
> reason, I'm not touched by most of his MSG solos...I don't know why...
> They are very good, but my god, they seem so little and insignificant
> compared to his UFO stuff...

Exactly what I always felt! Both his playing and his songwriting was way
different in MSG compared to UFO. I don´t understand why, because when
he did "Walk on Water" he was definitely back on track. It´s like he has
two different ways of expressing himself. And I always preferred his UFO
stuff and never felt much for MSG.

Jan

tl...@xnet.com

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to
I was at that show. I taped that show. I havn't been able to track down
Louisville but not much of Strangers came from Chicago. You can tell the solo
from Natural Thing is totally punched in. His sound is different and it's in
both channels. On the true stuff Schenkers in one channel and Raymonds in the
other. Plus I have Schenkers first Guitar Player interview in 81 where he
talks about the overdubbing.

tl...@xnet.com

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to
I also have an original boot of One Night at Budokan and there are overdubs
galore on that one. Whats weird on that one is that the first few songs are
flawless and then it seems that something pisses Michael off and he starts
playing bad on purpose. He does the worst versions of On & On and Mad Axeman
I've ever heard. Anyway it's a vinyl bootleg called "Tokyo Face". Personally I
think they always choke a little knowing that they're recording for a live
album. I've seen UFO in 75,76,77,78,94,95 and MSG in 81,84,87,89,92,96 and
Michaels always been great except for Friday the 13th of October 1978.

By the way, anybody else here remember UFO absofuckinloutly blowin' Foghat
off the stage 3 nights in a row at the Aragon ballroom in 76? I had first row
all 3 nights. Foghat removed them from the tour the next week.

http://www.xnet.com/~tlma/schenker.html

tl...@xnet.com

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to
I don't believe the audience is overdubbed. Like I said I was at that show
and was in the 3rd row. If you listen to Love to Love right when the song
starts kicking in you will hear a very long scream. It's very noticable as it
was then when my friend sitting next to me belted it out.

Crawford Lee Seals

unread,
Nov 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/13/98
to

j_an...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<72i7uu$rm7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <364B7CDD...@nospam.ufo.msg.rjd.dlr.bon>,


Where is a good source to get the "Too Hot to Handle" vid? I'd love to get
my hands on it.

Crawdad

mr...@hotmail.com

unread,
Nov 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/14/98
to

Hi Stargazer,

I saw UFO at The Edge in Palo Alto on the FIRST night of
their tour in '95. Perhaps they were better on the next
two nights...I am indeed critical to a fault but not unreasonably
so...Michael fucked up on everything, from chords to solos...
He seemed to be in a bad mood: As I made my way slowly into
the Edge, there he was sitting about 5 feet from the door. He
was there to sign albums, but no one was bringing him any...
He looked very uncomfortable and I felt sorry for him. I thought
it was insulting for him to be there at that stinky little dive.
To me, he was a Maestro and deserved to be headlining arenas.
It seemed humiliating for him to be sitting at that tiny table
waiting for fans to show up. I saw it in his face and body language.

You could only get his autograph if you first bought his acoustic
album or the Walk On Water one.

I remember standing in line and receiving a flyer from someone
which advertised Walk On Water--and my gut told me that the album
sucked. (I have since heard it and can see why the band could not
land a decent contract with a major label and therefore had to go the
mail-order route.)

They played 3 songs from WOW and each of them struck me as
formulaic, re-hash, lets-try-to-do-something-like-the-old-days
crap...

Ah well...

Yea, I'll never forget looking at the Master just sitting there
and looking dejected as if he was slumming and whoring...And he was!

The stage at the Edge was very tiny...The fucken soundboard is
on the stage!--stage right--so how the hell can the soundman
judge the levels properly?...Throughout the show, Schenker
kept motioning to the soundman to boost the volume on his
monitor...It also looked like he was having trouble with his
axe...And the fans just cheered and cheered...

I guess it was just an exceptionally bad night...Although,
I gotta tell you, I've listened to some UFO bootlegs recorded
in the last few years, and Schenker sounds pretty weak...

As for the Hammersmith Odeon '84 video of MSG: It's a pro-shot.
Was designed and released for Japan. It's pretty damn good. However,
it's a dub (SP) that was given to me in 1985! So, there is some
degradation...But, if you live in the Silicon Valley, I'll trade
you for a dub of that German '81 thing that you've got. I'll just
give it to you as is. I've seen it often enough (which may account
for some of the degradation!).

I forget, do you have that Too Hot To Handle video that someone
mentioned in the newsgroup? I sure would like to get a dub of
that one...

Thanks for the link to Wendi's page. I have indeed come across
it before. And while it's better than most, it's still lacks
juice and enthusiasm. I want a page where an obsessive nutcase
has researched his balls off! Maybe I'll have to end up doing
it myself...

I've noticed that you also like Iron Maiden. I'm wearing a shirt
today from a Day On The Green that I attended on July 18, 1982
where Maiden was the first act. I was sitting on the green, about 3
rows from the stage,and completely out of my mind on some Snowflake
acid. Everyone around me was standing, so I couldn't see the stage.
Thus, I missed seeing some creature named Eddie. That's all my
friends talked about on the way home: Didja see Eddie? Huh? Didja?

The Scorpions came on after Maiden and put on a very good show.
(Foreigner were the headliners: Much too loud.)

Anyhow, I'm really not a fan of Maiden. I don't know why. Just not
my cup of tea.

Okay. Enough blabbin for now.

Sincerely,
Mr. 1:15

PS: I tried sending this to your email address, even removed the
"nospam", but it bounced back.

Harry Teratoma

unread,
Nov 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/14/98
to

mr...@hotmail.com wrote:

> I assure you that he
> did not nail one fucken solo the whole night. I have literally
> heard teenagers play his songs a million times better. It was so
> goddamn bad that me and my friend left during Rock Bottom. And what
> made it all the more sickening was the fact that most of the audience
> cheered and carried on as if everything was hunky-dory...
>

If I was at a UFO show, and one member was having a rough night, but the rest of
the band was on, I would still cheer and carry on.


Troy Harris

unread,
Nov 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/15/98
to

I have a tape of MSG in 1992 in LA, and Micheal S plays impeccably! I
dont think that SiTN is not overdubbed, but this tape I have is
definitely not, and his playing is almost flawless, so maybe metal
Mickey is still improving! (Robin Mc sounds grouse too!)

BTW, for any one who knows when we here in Australia will see the
"Written in Sand" CD , can you let me know!!! It is a real concern!

Troy H

j_an...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/15/98
to
In article <72if7n$234$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
tl...@xnet.com wrote:

> I was at that show. I taped that show. I havn't been able to track down
> Louisville but not much of Strangers came from Chicago. You can tell the solo
> from Natural Thing is totally punched in. His sound is different and it's in
> both channels. On the true stuff Schenkers in one channel and Raymonds in the
> other. Plus I have Schenkers first Guitar Player interview in 81 where he
> talks about the overdubbing.

Any chance that you could qoute the most interesting parts of that
interview in this forum? It would indeed be interesting to learn
what the accused himself has to say about it. Thanks.

Jan A.

j_an...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/15/98
to
In article <72gtle$mo4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
bia...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> Sorry guys, but I thought everybody knew that there is no such thing as a
> live album. The crowd noises for StrangersŠ were taken from a Rolling Stones
> live album. This is fact.

From where does this fact originate?

Jan A.

Tom Klemzak

unread,
Nov 16, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/16/98
to
Mr 1:15,

I don't think I like the tone in your email. :)

Am I reading you correctly in you literally flipping off the stupendous
Walk On Water?!?!? Evidentally, you weren't much of a fan if you didn't
purchase the 1st Japanese pressing that explained the reasons for
"re-creating" the UFO sound you so seem to call "formulaic, re-hash,
lets-try-to-do-something-like-the-old-days
crap..."

To say the first night of the '95 show at the Edge sucked, is, well,
forgiveable -- since it did primarily to the fault of the mixing board and
Leon, Schenker's guitar tech (or possibly now former guitar tech). To
ASSume Michael has "lost" something in the past few years is crass,
considering how fuckin' brilliant the 3rd and 4th nights at the Edge in PA
in '95 were. To ASSume Michael must be slumming and whoring? What the
fuck? Hey man, arenas ain't where it's at. So what if the mix was a
little off, if you want note for note perfection, stay at home and listen
to Strangers.

Furthermore, the soundboard at The Edge is not at the right hand side of
the stage. It's at the back toward the rear of the venue in front of the
bar. Trust me on this. To also say The Edge has a small stage is well,
also in left field. Dude, go check out The Boardwalk in Orangevale
(Sacramento), no bigger than a living room, yet UFO had no qualms about
playing such a venue, and what an electrifying show they played there.

To say you feel sorry for Schenk, don't. He's had more chances than most,
and he's pissed all over them.

Please spare us the condescending tone of the "sticky, little dive" talk.
These "stinky, little dives" are what we true bangers call home!

Tom -- your obsessive nutcase living in Silicon Valley
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/newbonham/2/


mr...@hotmail.com wrote:

bia...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Nov 16, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/16/98
to
In article <72noee$4f2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

j_an...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <72gtle$mo4$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> bia...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Sorry guys, but I thought everybody knew that there is no such thing as a
> > live album. The crowd noises for StrangersŠ were taken from a Rolling Stones
> > live album. This is fact.
>
> From where does this fact originate?
>
> Jan A.
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>


-- Er, Pete Way, actually, albeit a little "the worse for wear" Pete Way, in
the Columbia Hotel bar, West London, about 2.00 am, a couple of weeks after
High Stakes & Dangerous Men came out. He was there with his then wife,
Bettina, a lovely Danish air hostess. Hey, but maybe he was kidding. Hair by
Godber

jcr...@popserv.ucop.edu

unread,
Nov 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/25/98
to
Just had to put my 2 cents in.. I have seen Schenker 5 times. All at small
clubs or venues. Always only a few feet from Michael. Believe me, he can
play the solos that are on Strangers. Yes, Strangers is overdubed...as is
every live album in the history of man.. but not to the extent which is being
brought about here.. and I seriously doubt that Chapman did the overdubs..
have seen ufo with Chapman and he is good.. but he is not Schenker.

As for the 95 shows in Palo Alto.. I was at one of them and it was very good.
Schenker may not have been perfect, but neither were the other guys.. I was
also at the live gigs in Palo Alto in 98.. the day after Michael walked off
due to whatever.. he did not look good but he played very well all the same
and the band as a whole sounded better than in 95.

I already own a good amount of UFO and MSG material but if items come more
readily available, like at the local store, I will still buy.. I am sorry..
but there are just not that many good bands out there these days that can
compare and which I wish to spend my money on. WOW is better than any other
album UFO has put out without Schenker and is one of the best rock albums
around in the past few years.

JC


In article <72gmum$gku$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
mr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>

mr...@hotmail.com

unread,
Jan 1, 2005, 9:16:19 AM1/1/05
to
Yea, it's been some time since the old Strangers argument has cropped
up. Do a search on Mr 1:15 and you will find a long thread from 1998
about whether or not Strangers is a studio album. I'm still amazed that
I have not yet come across an interview with any member of UFO whereby
they are asked if Strangers was a fake live album. The only member to
"hint" that it was a fake live album was Paul Chapman. He said on his
website a few years ago that Mother Mary and This Kids were recorded in
a studio and not during a concert.

Mr 1:15 (aka XXs4Eyes)

jfisher

unread,
Jan 23, 2005, 2:47:13 PM1/23/05
to

tl...@xnet.com wrote:
> I was at that show. I taped that show. I havn't been able to track
down
> Louisville but not much of Strangers came from Chicago. You can tell
the solo
> from Natural Thing is totally punched in. His sound is different and
it's in
> both channels. On the true stuff Schenkers in one channel and
Raymonds in the
> other. Plus I have Schenkers first Guitar Player interview in 81
where he
> talks about the overdubbing.
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network
==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your
Own

the most blantant example of an overdub is at the end of "Mother
Mary." You hear rhythm guitar and then shimmering keyboards at the same
time whilst Schenker plays the "crying" lead. And the 2 times I saw
them with Paul Raymond, he wasn't using foot pedals to play cords, so
this one is a simple one.
Also, I've tried for years to play the keyboard parts to "Love to
Love." I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't see how he gets
that many sounds at the same time. I have the 2 rack set-up like I saw
him play, and I just can't do it. I can play the piano sound and the
synth sound at the same time with 2 hands and that's it! I know he's
better than me, but unless there was pre-programming involved, this is
another overdub. Just listen to the boot called, "Parker's Birthday,"
which is so poorly recorded and sloppy and obviously has no overdubs to
hear how this song sounded in a "real" concert.
I don't care though, I still worship this band-especially Paul Raymond
who I've been trying like hell to immitate switching back and forth
between guitar/keys.
And I see you guys have been talking about the "Too Hot To Handle"
video. How about the "way" Pete screws up the lead break on "Shoot
Shoot?" THis is kinda funny because Schenker suprisingly breaks from
his usual pose and shoots him a glare!! (Ironically, this section of
the song is featured again at the end of the video when someone is
talking about how good of a lead player Schenker was!!) Schenker even
said in a recent interview how no one cared when Pete screwed up on
stage, but if he did it, everyone would think something was seriously
wrong and confront him!! I have several boots where Pete loses his
place in the song. It used to really get me that he would have such a
tough time with such basic riffs. I know he was pretty shit-faced all
the time, but still it seems he could play these songs by rote after so
many times!! Pretty much EVERY live version I have of the song, "No
Place to Run" has Pete losing his place at the end of the lead and then
fumbling around until it ends......I still love him too though....
John
from Boston Mass in the midst of a blizzard!!

Angus

unread,
Jan 24, 2005, 5:16:26 AM1/24/05
to
Um, you've confused me with all this talk of Pete and his lead breaks
... d'you mean Kipper Raymond? Or just that Mr Way makes an arse of the
bassline?

Best few seconds of SiTN for me is when Kipper finishes his keys part
in This Kids and resumes rhythm guitar for the guitar solo... the short
pause as he switches over, which surely wouldn't have been there on a
"live in the studio" recording. An obvious place to overdub a half-bar
or so of rhythm gtr?

Angus

Harry Teratoma

unread,
Jan 24, 2005, 11:12:33 PM1/24/05
to

"jfisher" <jnef...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1106509633.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

.
> Also, I've tried for years to play the keyboard parts to "Love to
> Love." I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't see how he gets
> that many sounds at the same time.

I remember an recorded interview with PR that Hobs sent to me back when he
was running PR's web site. He mentioned something about coming up with a
"loop" for the song "before there was such a thing" or something to that
effect. I've probably still got that interview on an old computer.


jimdav...@gmail.com

unread,
Oct 29, 2012, 11:18:46 PM10/29/12
to
On Thursday, November 5, 1998 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, cpfr...@steigers.com wrote:
> Although I unfortunately did not see UFO
> in 1978 (I was 13 at the time), I have two
> bootlegs from 1978 with Schenker. It may
> not have been the same as being there, but
> having them in my hands now I think is
> more valuable than trying to remember
> what it was like 20 years ago.
>
> One of the shows was recorded in Chicago.
> When I obtained it, I excitedly assumed it
> was the Strangers show. Listening to that
> tape has made me very suspicious about the
> authenticity of Strangers as an actual
> concert recording in Chicago. Here's why.
>
> The 1978 Chicago show I have taped is
> identical to Strangers in only one regard -
> the "Hello Chicago! Would you please
> welcome from England U-F-O!"
> introduction. It is the exact same intro used
> on Strangers. However, listening to the
> bootleg concert versus Strangers, the set list
> was very different and NONE of the guitar
> solos are the same as on Strangers - they
> aren't nearly as good. The set list is similar,
> but not identical. The bootleg has a lot of
> Obsession on it and much less Force It. In
> fact, the show opened with Hot n Ready
> and did not include Natural Thing at all.
> Strangers includes just Only You Can Rock
> Me. Kind of suspicious since that was the
> Obsession tour. The 1978 Chicago boot
> includes Hot n Ready, Pack it Up and Go,
> Cherry, Aint No Baby and OYCRM.
>
> Getting back to the original question - no,
> the quality of the live performances I have
> on tape from 1978 is no where near as clean
> and brilliant as Strangers. Not even close.
> The musical pace was much faster and
> more chaotic. Strangers is much slower
> and more deliberate, and absolutely cleaner
> and tighter.
>
> Comparing the two - you can't help but to
> believe Strangers was recorded over
> numerous nights/takes with overdubs.
> Has to be. If you hear the 1978 boots, you
> will know what I mean. Strangers is one of
> the greatest albums ever recorded - I think
> it's brilliant. But, I doubt it was done as
> people assume it was - in one incredible
> night in Chicago. My theory - that
> Strangers was actually recorded during
> soundchecks on a stage, but not live and
> spontaneously in front of all those fans and
> that the cheering audience and solos were
> overdubbed. The band introduction on
> Strangers is overdubbed - absolutely no
> question about it. Strangers is way too clean
> and perfect, relative to the actual live
> recordings I have to be a real spontaneous
> concert recorded in one (or two) nights.
>
> I have now donned my asbestos suit, so let
> the flaming begin........
>
>
>
>
> In article <
> 3640C07E...@nospam.ufo>,
> Stargazer <major...@nospam.ufo>
> wrote:
> >
> > Would love to hear impressions of those shows and how they match up to
> > the brilliance on "Strangers...."
> >
> >
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

I agree with everything you say here.

In fact, I spoke to a UFO member, who joined briefly after Strangers, and he confirmed that there is very little "LIVE" material on SITN. Kick drum and some snare. Just about that whole record is a studio creation.

It's great and I love it, but it's not very live.

james vincent

unread,
Feb 18, 2022, 10:37:06 PM2/18/22
to
On Wednesday, November 4, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-8, Stargazer wrote:
> Would love to hear impressions of those shows and how they match up to
> the brilliance on "Strangers...."U F O/Rush, San Francisco, Ca. 1977/Obsession/Farewell To Kings Tour. It was caught on B/W 16mm footage. When I saw another show afterward, they ran the original U F O performance. It was Amazing!

Patrick Rau

unread,
Sep 24, 2023, 12:56:22 AM9/24/23
to

Patrick Rau

unread,
Sep 24, 2023, 1:02:18 AM9/24/23
to
On Wednesday, November 4, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Stargazer wrote:
> Would love to hear impressions of those shows and how they match up to
> the brilliance on "Strangers...."


Yes! I was 16 and saw the show in Milwaukee at the old Auditorium. UFO as you probably know had brought in Paul Chapman by then. They were good because they had great songs. However.....45 years later, I'm the most passionate Priest fan I know. Never wavered. To my ears they're a cut above every hard rock/metal band of their genre.
I don't think UFO really ever recovered from losing MS.
0 new messages