Remastered Ruby Tuesday
Bob Gill
sound so much weaker on the new remasters? I wonder if they used an
earlier version of the tape, before Mick & Keith doubled their vocal
parts or something. Whatever the reason, it's the only song I notice
that kind of difference on. It doesn't ruin it or anything, but I'm just
curious about what happened.
-- Bob G.
Tony
wrote:
Couldn't tell you, Bob. I do know that the imported Hot Rocks I bought
years ago has the best stereo versions out of any disc I've ever heard
before, including the new remasters.
For example, Satisfaction sounds as if it's in mono on the new
remastered Hot Rocks, but on the import from 1985, it is in crystal
clear stereo, and you can hear an acoustic guitar track that is all
but extinct on any other cd.
Heart Of Stone, Get Off Of My Cloud, Mothers Little Helper, and
especially Paint it, Black, all sound great on the import, much better
than on the remasters. And I have a SACD player too.
Supposedly, the Japanese imports used the same master tapes for their
cd's as well.
Anyone?
Tony
David Goodwin
wrote:
>Couldn't tell you, Bob. I do know that the imported Hot Rocks I bought
>years ago has the best stereo versions out of any disc I've ever heard
>before, including the new remasters.
>For example, Satisfaction sounds as if it's in mono on the new
>remastered Hot Rocks, but on the import from 1985, it is in crystal
>clear stereo, and you can hear an acoustic guitar track that is all
>but extinct on any other cd.
>Heart Of Stone, Get Off Of My Cloud, Mothers Little Helper, and
>especially Paint it, Black, all sound great on the import, much better
>than on the remasters. And I have a SACD player too.
>Supposedly, the Japanese imports used the same master tapes for their
>cd's as well.
>Anyone?
>
>Tony
We did write a *huge document* about this, y'know...^_^
But as to exactly why Ruby Tuesday is the way it is...no consensus.
The tape sounds like some sort of earlier mix, but the jury's really
out on this one, and there's been no official word (or even
acknowledgement) from ABKCO.
-D
Luke Pacholski
Tony <waterb...@yahoo.comnospam> wrote:
>Heart Of Stone, Get Off Of My Cloud, Mothers Little Helper, and
>especially Paint it, Black, all sound great on the import, much better
>than on the remasters. And I have a SACD player too.
While I'd generally agree to a statement like that, I'd actually say
Heart Of Stone and Paint It Black are better on the remasters. Heart Of
Stone, while slightly narrowed down (that can be fixed, though), comes
from a better tape. And Paint It Black has much better EQ, which now
matches how it sounded on vinyl.
>Supposedly, the Japanese imports used the same master tapes for their
>cd's as well.
http://lukpac.org/stereostones/stones-cd-faq.txt
Luke
--
Stephen Leacock
dropped in favor of a very bluesy sounding guitar. Plus, there's an extra
verse in this version.
Jason~~
JWB
> Is there any consensus opinion about why the vocals on the chorus
> sound so much weaker on the new remasters?
They used the wrong tape, missing a vocal overdub.
Strangely, the mono mix on the singles set is identical. Many people believe that several of the
mono mixes are a fraud...created by collapsing stereo mixes.
- JWB
David Prokopy
>"Singles Collection" set] are a fraud...created by collapsing
>stereo mixes.
I think that was the accusation for the original box set. I hadn't heard such
a claim made about the remastered set. (In fact, it corrects a lot of errors
from the original, even including a rare mix of "Street Fighting Man" that was
pulled after its initial release as a single.)
--
David Prokopy - d p r o k o p y @ a o l . c o m
<Insert pithy quote here>
David Goodwin
wrote:
>>Many people believe that several of the mono mixes [on the
>>"Singles Collection" set] are a fraud...created by collapsing
>>stereo mixes.
>
>I think that was the accusation for the original box set. I hadn't heard such
>a claim made about the remastered set. (In fact, it corrects a lot of errors
>from the original, even including a rare mix of "Street Fighting Man" that was
>pulled after its initial release as a single.)
It corrects a few, but seems to introduce a few more oddities (namely,
err, where's the short Tell Me? Why does this Ruby Tuesday also seem
to be missing the vocals? Why is the single You Can't suddenly mono?
Why is the "fixed" 19th Nervous passed off as the single? Was the
digital correction to mono done in the SACD domain or in PCM? Etc.)
-D
Bob Gill
> On 08 Feb 2003 00:42:58 GMT, dpro...@aol.comblahblah (David Prokopy)
> wrote:
>
> >>Many people believe that several of the mono mixes [on the
> >>"Singles Collection" set] are a fraud...created by collapsing
> >>stereo mixes.
> >
> >I think that was the accusation for the original box set. I hadn't heard such
> >a claim made about the remastered set. (In fact, it corrects a lot of errors
> >from the original, even including a rare mix of "Street Fighting Man" that was
> >pulled after its initial release as a single.)
Really? The one with the different vocal track? I was just thinking about getting
out that single yesterday, but didn't. I think (or used to) that vocal is better
than the one on the standard version.
> It corrects a few, but seems to introduce a few more oddities (namely,
> err, where's the short Tell Me? Why does this Ruby Tuesday also seem
> to be missing the vocals? Why is the single You Can't suddenly mono?
> Why is the "fixed" 19th Nervous passed off as the single? Was the
> digital correction to mono done in the SACD domain or in PCM? Etc.)
What's the "fixed" 19th Nervous Breakdown?
You guys are raising some interesting questions for me, since I don't have the
remastered singles collection. So what songs ARE different on the collection _
enough to make me get it?
-- Bob G.
David Goodwin
wrote:
>
> Really? The one with the different vocal track? I was just thinking about getting
>out that single yesterday, but didn't. I think (or used to) that vocal is better
>than the one on the standard version.
It's fun as a novelty, but I see why they went to a knockdown of the
album version....the original mix is awfully sloppy.
>
>> It corrects a few, but seems to introduce a few more oddities (namely,
>> err, where's the short Tell Me? Why does this Ruby Tuesday also seem
>> to be missing the vocals? Why is the single You Can't suddenly mono?
>> Why is the "fixed" 19th Nervous passed off as the single? Was the
>> digital correction to mono done in the SACD domain or in PCM? Etc.)
>
> What's the "fixed" 19th Nervous Breakdown?
> You guys are raising some interesting questions for me, since I don't have the
>remastered singles collection. So what songs ARE different on the collection _
>enough to make me get it?
>
> -- Bob G.
>
http://www.lukpac.org/stereostones/stones-cd-faq.txt <---shameless
plug.
In summary, though...the problem with the *new* Singles set is that
despite actually having the single mixes in many cases, it tends to
default to "corrected-mono" versions of the already-extant versions.
Lemme clarify: "Gotta Get Away" is exactly the same on December's
Children and the Singles Collection, but the one on Singles has been
digitally corrected (HOPEFULLY in DSD, if that's possible currently)
to true mono--by which I mean that OOPSing produces nothing--while the
Gotta Get Away on December's isn't precisely in phase (not that this
is at all noticable).
Now, while this isn't a problem on "Gotta Get Away," it *is* a problem
elsewhere. Notably, "19th Nervous Breakdown" has been "fixed" on Big
Hits/Hot Rocks/December's Children, et cetera; it sounds like the
remixed the intro (or collapsed the stereo mix) and edited it on to
the regular mono mix, ostensibly to get rid of the static in the intro
(they forgot about the tape wobble at the end, though). It isn't
perfect, though, as the second guitar part is MUCH lower in the intro
of this version. This, then, gets passed off on Singles as being the
single mix, even though it isn't, really.
Some songs clearly sound better, some sound different, and only one
seems to sound worse ("I Wanna Be Your Man" sounds murkier here, for
some reason). That said, while the new set solves some of the forgery
problems that plagued the old set (the SatMaj and Aftermath stuff
seems to be the real deal this time around), it introduces new
questions--re. Tell Me, 19th Nervous, Ruby Tuesday, You Can't Always
Get, etc.--that haven't been clearly answered yet.
-D
JWB
>
> What's the "fixed" 19th Nervous Breakdown?
The original mix has a static problem during the intro.
They used a different mix for the beginning of the song without static, and edited it onto the
regular mix at the drum fill. You can hear the volume of the guitar and tone of the overall track
change at the edit.
Really, really questionable stuff.
- JWB
Nil
news:v4bh2nq...@corp.supernews.com:
> They used a different mix for the beginning of the song without
> static, and edited it onto the regular mix at the drum fill. You
> can hear the volume of the guitar and tone of the overall track
> change at the edit.
>
> Really, really questionable stuff.
I haven't heard the "fixed" reamaster, but if what you're saying is
true, that's incredibly lame. Sounds like the cure is worse than the
disease! It's not that hard to digitally correct static problems of
that kind in such a way that the fix is nearly or totally unnoticable.
And if they are going to fix the intro, why not the tape drag at the
end? I bet I could do a better job with my consumer-oriented tools.
Hey, Mick! Keith! Hire me next time! I'll make it worth your while!
Bob Gill
> (The single mix of Street Fighting Man:) It's fun as a novelty, but I see why they
> went to a knockdown of the album version....the original mix is awfully sloppy.
Yeah, that's true. Even without getting it out again, I can still hear the raggedness
of it.
> Now, while this isn't a problem on "Gotta Get Away," it *is* a problem
> elsewhere. Notably, "19th Nervous Breakdown" has been "fixed" on Big
> Hits/Hot Rocks/December's Children, et cetera; it sounds like the
> remixed the intro (or collapsed the stereo mix) and edited it on to
> the regular mono mix, ostensibly to get rid of the static in the intro
> (they forgot about the tape wobble at the end, though). It isn't
> perfect, though, as the second guitar part is MUCH lower in the intro
> of this version. This, then, gets passed off on Singles as being the
> single mix, even though it isn't, really.
I can see what you mean, because I've heard a stereo version of 19th Nervous Breakdown
and I remember the 2nd guitar (meaning Keith's, not Brian's with the tremelo) was much
lower than it is in the usual mono version. Actually, I still haven't heard that song in
the new mix, because for some reason I bought the first Big Hits from Amazon, and I got
it with a book that wasn't immediately available, and they waited to mail both of them
together. Apparently it's in the mail now, so within a couple of days I'll hear it.
> Some songs clearly sound better, some sound different, and only one
> seems to sound worse ("I Wanna Be Your Man" sounds murkier here, for
> some reason). That said, while the new set solves some of the forgery
> problems that plagued the old set (the SatMaj and Aftermath stuff
> seems to be the real deal this time around), it introduces new
> questions--re. Tell Me, 19th Nervous, Ruby Tuesday, You Can't Always
> Get, etc.--that haven't been clearly answered yet.
When you refer to the Satanic Majesties and Aftermath stuff, do you mean the singles
like She's a Rainbow were artificially created mono, or something else? (Just curious.)
But no other surprises on the singles collection, like a stereo mix of Sad Day or
Who's Driving Your Plane? Maybe I'll just pass. After all, I have the original version,
which I do like because of the mono We Love You and a few other things, even with its
flaws.
Oh, and speaking of We Love You, is that a flaw at the very end of it on More Hot
Rocks? There's a little sort of click sound after the ending, which I don't recall
hearing before. It almost sounds like they didn't get the faders down fast enough after
the final chord.
-- Bob G.
David Goodwin
wrote:
>
> When you refer to the Satanic Majesties and Aftermath stuff, do you mean the singles
>like She's a Rainbow were artificially created mono, or something else? (Just curious.)
Well, on the original set, many of the SatMajs tracks were
questionable (i.e. In Another Land and The Lantern were obviously
forgeries). That said, as I don't have the old set with me, I'm unsure
of whether SaR and 2000LYfH were forgeries as well...they sounded
plausible enough, IIRC. The new set presumably has the acutally mono
mixes.
Re. the Aftermath stuff, I'm pretty sure they were all forgeries on
the old set.
> But no other surprises on the singles collection, like a stereo mix of Sad Day or
>Who's Driving Your Plane? Maybe I'll just pass. After all, I have the original version,
>which I do like because of the mono We Love You and a few other things, even with its
>flaws.
Well, clearly not, as the Singles Collection is supposed to reflect
mono versions (of course, it'd work better condensed into a smaller,
non-overlapping set, but what do I know?).
> Oh, and speaking of We Love You, is that a flaw at the very end of it on More Hot
>Rocks? There's a little sort of click sound after the ending, which I don't recall
>hearing before. It almost sounds like they didn't get the faders down fast enough after
>the final chord.
More Hot Rocks uses the stereo version. Other than that...
-D
Bob Gill
> Well, clearly not, as the Singles Collection is supposed to reflect
> mono versions (of course, it'd work better condensed into a smaller,
> non-overlapping set, but what do I know?).
It sure would work better as a smaller set _ for instance, dropping all those flip sides
that were already on the albums. With just the A-sides and the B-sides that weren't on
albums, like Child of the Moon and Long Long While, it would've fit on two CDs easily.
As for mono vs. stereo, the original singles collection relied mainly on mono, but a lot
of the later songs were in stereo _ Jumping Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man and so on.
That's why I was wondering.
Thanks for the info.
-- Bob G.
David Prokopy
>mainly on mono, but a lot of the later songs were in stereo
>_ Jumping Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man and so on.
Those songs might have EVENTUALLY been released in stereo, on their respective
albums and hits compilations, but their initial release as singles were in mono
(at least, I'm pretty sure with those two songs in particular).
By the way, with all this talk about which mixes were used originally, and
which were mono and stereo, etc., does anyone out there actually HAVE some of
these original 45's and can compare them with what's on the set? For example,
I'd be willing to bet that the original single version of "You Can't Always Get
What You Want" was in mono, and in fact it was the stereo version on the
original box set that was the mistake, not the mono version on the new set. I
was under the impression that the first true stereo Stones single was "Brown
Sugar" (and therefore, including a stereo version of "Honkey Tonk Woman" would
have been a mistake, as well).
--
David Prokopy - d p r o k o p y @ a o l . c o m
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." -George W. Bush, August 17,
1993
JohnPerry01
as they came out.
Can I just check tho -- we -are- talking about A/B -ing stuff against new
ABKCO 3-cd box LONDON YEARS (singles collection).
Is that right ??
JP
JohnPerry01
YEARS.
"19th Nervous Breakdown"
2 guitars on intro (from the attack, it sounds like Keith?) playing the
opening phrase; Brian comes in playing the tremelo figure.
Tremelo gtr is v nearly lost on the LONDON YEARS. Well you already knew that --
but I can't believe they fucked with it, just to lose that tiny bitta static.
Stupid, cos its got historic value too, being the identical figure that opens
Diddley Diddley-Daddy on the 1963 IBC sessions.
The rest of the track .. well LONDON YEARS is sharp, but I dont think its any
clearer than the single -- and it doesnt quite have the BODY of the 45. Tho I'm
not about to throw out the CD system...
JP
David Goodwin
wrote:
>
>By the way, with all this talk about which mixes were used originally, and
>which were mono and stereo, etc., does anyone out there actually HAVE some of
>these original 45's and can compare them with what's on the set? For example,
>I'd be willing to bet that the original single version of "You Can't Always Get
>What You Want" was in mono, and in fact it was the stereo version on the
>original box set that was the mistake, not the mono version on the new set. I
>was under the impression that the first true stereo Stones single was "Brown
>Sugar" (and therefore, including a stereo version of "Honkey Tonk Woman" would
>have been a mistake, as well).
I don't have the single, but apparently "You Can't" exists in both
mixes (?). The thing is that the tape generally used for the single
version is actually a slight alternate, besides the obvious point of
the missing intro. It's more glaringly obvious when it shows up in its
original phase (say, on Time Trip 4). Lord knows how, but it's missing
the Midnight Rambler print-through in the beginning....
The mono mix, consequently, just sounds like a reduction of this.
-D
David Goodwin
wrote:
It isn't like the original version's rare or anything, but it's odd
that ABKCO would bother including the "fixed" version on the
"warts-n-all" set.
-D
Bob Gill
> >As for mono vs. stereo, the original singles collection relied
> >mainly on mono, but a lot of the later songs were in stereo
> >_ Jumping Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man and so on.
>
> Those songs might have EVENTUALLY been released in stereo, on their respective
> albums and hits compilations, but their initial release as singles were in mono
> (at least, I'm pretty sure with those two songs in particular).
Right _ I meant several later songs were in stereo on the original singles
collection, not on the singles themselves.
> By the way, with all this talk about which mixes were used originally, and
> which were mono and stereo, etc., does anyone out there actually HAVE some of
> these original 45's and can compare them with what's on the set? For example,
> I'd be willing to bet that the original single version of "You Can't Always Get
> What You Want" was in mono,
Yes it was. I don't have it any more, but I used to. It didn't include the choir,
as I recall, but started with the acoustic guitar. And it omitted the "went down
the the demonstration" verse, plus (I think) the second half of the "Mr. Jimmy"
verse _ that one ended with "man, did he look pretty ill."
> and in fact it was the stereo version on the
> original box set that was the mistake, not the mono version on the new set. I
> was under the impression that the first true stereo Stones single was "Brown
> Sugar" (and therefore, including a stereo version of "Honkey Tonk Woman" would
> have been a mistake, as well).
Brown Sugar was also in mono, as were Tumbling Dice and Happy. Angie was the
first single in stereo, at least in the U.S.
-- Bob G.
JWB
>
> Oh, and speaking of We Love You, is that a flaw at the very end of it on More Hot
> Rocks? There's a little sort of click sound after the ending, which I don't recall
> hearing before. It almost sounds like they didn't get the faders down fast enough after
> the final chord.
As a matter of fact, the remastered More Hot Rocks has a longer "We Love You" than any previous
release.
It comes to a natural ending, and someone shouts "to your health!".
- JWB