Drum Machines
Fuzzy logic
I just borrowed a copy of a Mortician album( it sucks bad by the way) and
I saw that they use a drum machine. Is it just me or do these really sound
shitty. It sounds really unnatural and fake. Sorta sounds like a machine gun
or something. I was just wondering how these are programmed and what are they
like to work with.
Sent from God,
Koslo Slamese
DB
In article <pesto.283...@interaccess.com>, pe...@interaccess.com
(Fuzzy logic) wrote:
Sorry, can't help you with the tech specs on the drum machine. I disagree
with your "it sucks bad..." comment. Yes it is rough, underproduced and
uses a kindergarten child's imagry of gore, but there is something cool
beneath all of that. They are definatly a true representation of what the
underground is about and for an unknown reason i find myself playing
Hacked Up For the Barbecue over and over. It's one of the few newer death
metal albums I have enjoyed this year.
Mac...@interlog.com
> (Fuzzy logic) wrote:
>
> >I just borrowed a copy of a Mortician album( it sucks bad by the
> way) and I saw that they use a drum machine. Is it just me or do these
really sound shitty. It sounds really unnatural and fake. Sorta sounds
like a machine gun or something. I was just wondering how these are
programmed and what are they like to work with.
Drum machines are the ultimate destroyer of sleep! Since their are **no**
drummers into death metal in the Toronto area (I should know, 1 year of
advertising EVERYWHERE for a drummer turned up nill) my band, Dark Fixation
now has one. Anyways, Moritican use a lack of rhythms in drums because it's
so fucking hard to program and change things around. Especially, for bands
with many different riffs/parts/violent tempo changes etc. Cost is nothing,
even the most expensive (not within our means) doesn't give you very much
to work with. Newer drum machines only improve sound and quality. Some can
sound like, or similar to the real thing. Since Mortician (I like what I've
heard off of their new album) use the extreme tempo thingy, it does sound
unnatural, but hey - it's extreme death metal, who cares? - the intent is
there. Drum machines are programmed manually...pick a tempo, a beat and
build upon it...then change each and every fucking drum pattern for every
riff...mix in a couple of weeks of sleepless nights and you've got a song
(or a start?). _Only_ buy (as we did) in total desperation!
Steve W.
Dark Fixation
goden
dark...@nilenet.com (DB) wrote:
>Sorry, can't help you with the tech specs on the drum machine. I disagree
>with your "it sucks bad..." comment.
So do I.
>Yes it is rough, underproduced and
>uses a kindergarten child's imagry of gore, but there is something cool
>beneath all of that.
Definitely. Check out the song "Hacked Up for Barbecue". When the
intro fades and the music begins is fucking killer. It's like a bomb
that's just waiting to explode...
>They are definatly a true representation of what the
>underground is about and for an unknown reason i find myself playing
>Hacked Up For the Barbecue over and over. It's one of the few newer death
>metal albums I have enjoyed this year.
I heartily agree with this statement.
I do wonder which album Fuzzy heard. The drums on the new one don't
sound that bad, although I wish they'd have kept the old guitar sound.
It was heavier, imo...
'One times one equals nine. Your make-believe reality is full of shit.'
--cool quote, semi-crappy band (their early stuff was good...)
Frank Ginder
Macabre does not lie. My music project is totally drum-programmed, and
to achieve highly realistic sound I have to stare at that little fucking
green screen for about 12 hours per song. I've gotten very used to the
machine I have, over the years, so 12 hours is actually fast compared to
the 3 days per song it once was. I'm a freak though, and in most of my
songs one drum pattern is good for an average of 3 seconds. (If you
listen carefully to almost any death metal record, you'll hear that most
drummers rarely repeat themselves measure-to-measure.) I strive for the
very convincing sound of a real drummer, and I pay for it. There's a
lot more involved in it than most people realize. It requires getting
down to the (insanely) detailed work of altering every little velocity
and decay of individual drums attacks, and working down into the 1/96th
note resolution for groove effects and things like simulated slap-backs
of the bass drum beater...it's really an art unto itself. It *is* much
more preferable to simply have a talented drummer, with a great drum set
and great mics in a sound-proof room to record it, but of course this
isn't always possible.
Mortician doesn't give a fuck about any of that. They use the machine
to spew blast- beats at inhuman speeds, and that sets them apart from
the pack very nicely.
~Frank
frank...@webtv.net
"...In this ultimate experience of life after death, this carcass will bec=
ome an incubator for the eggs of a fly. And in turn, the eggs will become=
maggots. Nothing is wasted in your world. Its efficiency defies human i=
magination. Life itself never really ends, and for every death, there is =
transformation." ~From 'Traces of Death II' =A9 '94 Dead Alive Productio=
ns
Bolt Thrower
> drummers into death metal in the Toronto area (I should know, 1 year of
> advertising EVERYWHERE for a drummer turned up nill) my band, Dark Fixation
> now has one. Anyways, Moritican use a lack of rhythms in drums because it's
> so fucking hard to program and change things around. Especially, for bands
> with many different riffs/parts/violent tempo changes etc. Cost is nothing,
> even the most expensive (not within our means) doesn't give you very much
> to work with. Newer drum machines only improve sound and quality. Some can
> sound like, or similar to the real thing. Since Mortician (I like what I've
> heard off of their new album) use the extreme tempo thingy, it does sound
> unnatural, but hey - it's extreme death metal, who cares? - the intent is
> there. Drum machines are programmed manually...pick a tempo, a beat and
> build upon it...then change each and every fucking drum pattern for every
> riff...mix in a couple of weeks of sleepless nights and you've got a song
> (or a start?). _Only_ buy (as we did) in total desperation!
>
Samael does an *amazing* job of programming their drum machine. I couldnt
tell it was a drum machine until I found out it was (On Passage).. It
did sound slightly strange, but you wouldnt guess a drum machine unless
you knew. however I've read that it took Xy a very long time to program
them to that perfection.
Cliff Evans
>
> > I just borrowed a copy of a Mortician album( it sucks bad by the
> way) and
> > I saw that they use a drum machine. Is it just me or do these really sound
> > shitty. It sounds really unnatural and fake. Sorta sounds like a
> machine gun
> > or something. I was just wondering how these are programmed and what
> are they
> > like to work with.
> uses a kindergarten child's imagry of gore, but there is something cool
> underground is about and for an unknown reason i find myself playing
> Hacked Up For the Barbecue over and over. It's one of the few newer death
> metal albums I have enjoyed this year.
Kind of an obscure reference, but they're like the Shaggs of death
metal.
And I think a drum machine is like a guitar or a computer or a gun or a
canvas...limited only by the one who uses it. They just don't use it
with much thought to texture, dynamics or anything but just making it
rattle out the blasting BPMs...
--
Cliff Evans
<boz...@earthlink.net>
---------------------------------------------
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment.
It's the impurities
in our air and water that are doing it."
- Vice President Dan Quayle
---------------------------------------------
SPAMTRAPPED.
goden
Frank Ginder <frank...@webtv.net> wrote:
>Mortician doesn't give a fuck about any of that. They use the machine
>to spew blast- beats at inhuman speeds, and that sets them apart from
>the pack very nicely.
I totally applaud Mortician for not giving a fuck. I think their new
album is killer (I don't know yet if I think it's more brutal than
'House by the Cemetary', though). Some of the intros are long and
annoying (the first song, for example), but the drums sound less drum
machine-y than the 'House...' album (the bass and snare sound almost
real to me, while the cymbal parts are what give away the drum
machine).
Shukri Netzul Adams
>
>
>
> I just borrowed a copy of a Mortician album( it sucks bad by the
way) and
>I saw that they use a drum machine. Is it just me or do these really
sound
>shitty. It sounds really unnatural and fake. Sorta sounds like a
machine gun
>or something. I was just wondering how these are programmed and what
are they
>like to work with.
Sorry, I don't agree with you on that one. Mortician's "House by the
Cemetary" is one of the sickest pieces of musical inhumanity I've ever
encountered. They're as messy as hell, but they know how to crank out
some killer grinding madness. Their use of a drum machine allows them to
explore extremity never before touched on.
As far as working with drum machines go, I've got LOTS to say about that.
I live in Cape Town, South Africa. There are NO drummers in this shit
hole. I tryied starting a band up for over six years, and the only people
who had drums kits were either completely lacking in talent, or could
play simple double-bass patterns and reckoned they were gods. What a
waste. In dusgust I started using a shitty Roland Dr-550 MkII machine,
and lo and behold - within a month I had penned an entire demo's worth of
grind/death stuff. I almost ended up doing a demo under the moniker of
Deadlock with Johan De Jager of Voice Of Destruction (VOD), but his
living in Namibia didn't help any!
Eventually I ended up starting the band I'm in now (Drakenculus), which
plays 'dark' metal (black, death, old school metal etc), and once again,
we'd rather use a drum machine than fuck around with some idiot who can
play dick. In just three months we've penned an album's worth of music,
and we should have our first album out by June this year. For a South
Fucking African band that's hectic to say the least. We use a Roland
Dr-660 machine and Mr 300 Sequencer, as well as a Roland Sound Pad (the
code escapes me right now - if you really want to know email me and I'll
check). I've handled all the programming thus far, and let me say this -
it's a pain in the arse! If you want to sound simple like Mortician it's
not too bad using a machine, but if you try to program rolls, fills and
other interesting bits, it gets very tedious. Some of our stuff is
step-programmed (ie, telling the computer to play a certain sound, and
when to do it), and the rest is done in real-time (ie, playing the sounds
in as you'd want it played back). Both have their pros and cons. Just let
me say this - a drum machine is never late for practice. It never
bitches about speed or complexity. It plays exactly what you want when
you want it to (provided that you don't throw it around or pour beer over
it), and it NEVER misses a beat. When you're trying to outdo Impaled
Nazarene, that can be an advantage.
Drum machines have a great future in this music. They can be as heavy and
as classy as any real drummer, as long as the people using it take the
time and invest the effort to get it to work. The only real problem is
affording the equipment - ours cost a shit load. Also, try getting
something easy to learn on, like the Roland dr 550, which unlike most
other machines gives you a graphical representation of your music,
instead of flashing numbers at you. This can be REAL help if you're
learning to figure out timing patterns, beat lengths, etc etc, as well as
finding out exactly why your music just doesn't sound right. I would also
highly recommend the use of a drum machine to any guitarist who's either
practicing or writing music. Nothing helps a riff come out like an
instant backing beat to put your stuff into perspective, trust me.
If you're struggling to find a drummer, rather get a machine than sit
around waiting for somebody who's not going to pitch. I've lived through
that for far too long, and more than anything else I just want to get my
music heard. Good luck to those who try !!
Shukri NETZUL Adams
Soul Tumour Ezine / Drakenculus
...... read it at:
http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/fitzpatrick/netzul
leda
In article <334869...@earthlink.net>, Cliff Evans <boz...@earthlink.net> says:
> I just borrowed a copy of a Mortician album( it sucks bad by the way) and
>I saw that they use a drum machine. Is it just me or do these really sound
>shitty. It sounds really unnatural and fake.
They used a drum machine on the new Samael album.
I think it's a matter of immagination (or lack thereof).
re
Desmodus Rotundus wrote:
>
> I really don't understand why a drum machine should sound like real drums.
>
> It's a machine, not a real drummer, so why is it considered negative if it
> sounds like a machine?
>
> In fact I'm annoyed because the drums on my Korg sound too much like real
> things...I'd really like to have also distorted kicks and techno-house
> kicks and hihats, plus ofcourse a set of industrialized snares.
>
> All they offer me apart from the real sounding ones are some wimpy
> sounding analog shite. WHERE'S THE TRUE INDUSTRIAL HARDCORE STRENGHT?
You're probably much much better off starting from some good standard
samples than any predefined "hc snare" or whatever they would provide
you.
Run it through a guitar distortion. Time stretch it to 10*original
length
and back a few times. Run it through a shitty guitar or bass amp and
record that. Record through an amiga or some 8-bit system if you can
find one. Repeat 5 times with different settings. Then use the 5
different snares/kicks on top of each other. etc.
Not sure about the HC kick though, it's quite a special sound. They
seem to be imitating the sound of a kick in a sound system with feedback
and clipping, perhaps through a few broken speakers.
Sample a good one from somewhere while building your song and figure
out how to get the right sound when rest of music is ready.
kil kil kil
re
Desmodus Rotundus
> Some of the intros are long and
>annoying (the first song, for example), but the drums sound less drum
>machine-y than the 'House...' album (the bass and snare sound almost
>real to me, while the cymbal parts are what give away the drum
>machine).
I really don't understand why a drum machine should sound like real drums.
It's a machine, not a real drummer, so why is it considered negative if it
sounds like a machine?
In fact I'm annoyed because the drums on my Korg sound too much like real
things...I'd really like to have also distorted kicks and techno-house
kicks and hihats, plus ofcourse a set of industrialized snares.
All they offer me apart from the real sounding ones are some wimpy
sounding analog shite. WHERE'S THE TRUE INDUSTRIAL HARDCORE STRENGHT?
Desmodus Rotundus
Damn, I guess I have to make black metal until I have the cash to buy
the equipment to make dance music! And you wonder why bands sell out only
after years of tidious work in the underground...
ha...@telerama.lm.com
Mortician get very silly with thier drum programing. I really don't
think they care either. I personaly don't care for their music.
pick up the debut cd by FILTHBOY : DIVERSE REALITY (june). We don't
make the machine sound like a machine gun, we experament with
different time sigs instead of just firing everything out in the
same mode. And unlike other bands that SEQUENCE everyting to
a drum machine, we played every insturment on the disc. Seq.
all the instruments (IMO) makes everything sound so stale, and
perfect. Most people that do alot of sequencing do it because
they don't have the talent to play everything or they are lazy.
It is much easier to play one measure than have a machine put
it all together for you.
FB
Desmodus Rotundus
In article <33494D...@hem.passagen.se>, re <ras...@hem.passagen.se> says:
>
>You're probably much much better off starting from some good standard
>samples than any predefined "hc snare" or whatever they would provide
>you.
I don't have a sampler. If I had one, plus a 4-tracker, I'd be producing
music like a motherfucker right now. All I have is a synth and a guitar.
Desmodus Rotundus
Well, at least I'm able to do SOMETHING...
Steve Smith
Bolt Thrower wrote:
> Samael does an *amazing* job of programming their drum machine. I couldnt
> tell it was a drum machine until I found out it was (On Passage).. It
> did sound slightly strange, but you wouldnt guess a drum machine unless
> you knew. however I've read that it took Xy a very long time to program
> them to that perfection.
Hmmm.... The one reason I can't listen to that CD for very long is because
of the annoying "ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping....." from the
drum machine's hi-hat.
I think everyone who is going to be spending more than $1000 on a drum machine
sound needs to seriously investigate the Roland Vdrums (T-10).
Steve
rasmus ekman
Desmodus Rotundus wrote:
>
> All I have is a synth and a guitar.
You know this useful software?:
Stomper
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~zap/stomper.html
Vurtual Analogue Synth Emulator (real-time on my 486)
http://www.cp.umist.ac.uk/users/martin/
Rebirth (Requires P133)
http://www.propellerheads.se/download/
Cool Edit/Samplitude/SAW+ etc
Guess we're far off-topic now...
cheers,
re