Test
Feral
The Phantom Flan Flinger
Feral <fe...@feralworld.co.uk> wrote:
> Sorry.
Liar.
Julian Richards
I thought that I was the only person still reading this group.
Anyone going to Wickstead Park in September?
--
Julian Richards
usenet "at" richardsuk.f9.co.uk
www.richardsuk.f9.co.uk
Website of "Robot Wars" middleweight "Broadsword IV"
Chika
Julian Richards <s...@sig.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 12:20:07 +0100, The Phantom Flan Flinger
> <flan...@no-spam-here.invalid> wrote:
> >In article <4306a05a$0$22941$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
> > Feral <fe...@feralworld.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Sorry.
> >
> >Liar.
> I thought that I was the only person still reading this group.
It's still in my list, though I forget when I last saw anything.
> Anyone going to Wickstead Park in September?
We shall see.
Julian Richards
wrote:
Competitor or visitor?
Chika
Julian Richards <s...@sig.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Anyone going to Wickstead Park in September?
> >
> >We shall see.
> Competitor or visitor?
If at all, visitor.
Julian Richards
wrote:
I'll be there with Broadsword IV.
leo van miert
>>>>>Anyone going to Wickstead Park in September?
I probably will not be there. I will try to be at the event in
Folkestone on the winter tour.
Guy Macon
Julian Richards wrote:
>I thought that I was the only person still reading this group.
You thought wrong. :)
Julian Richards
Good.
Anyone robot building at the moment? Broadsword IV is pretty much
complete but the cupboard is bare financewise and I'm trying to find
some sort of sponsorship.
leo van miert
> Good.
>
> Anyone robot building at the moment?
Kind of. I am currently still making slow progress on the new Splinter,
but with 3 heavies already in in a state of battle readiness im in no
hurry. I am considering a featherweight at the moment.
what i can show you already is this:
http://robotwars.demon.nl/media/foto/bijltje.jpg
That axe head is made of Hardox 650. The total of it is about 22 lbs.
> Broadsword IV is pretty much
> complete but the cupboard is bare financewise and I'm trying to find
> some sort of sponsorship.
Good luck with that. I just use my savings. Every couple of months i buy
a new part.
regards,
Leo van Miert
flobert
wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 22:16:00 +0000, Guy Macon
><http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>Julian Richards wrote:
>>
>>>I thought that I was the only person still reading this group.
>>
>>You thought wrong. :)
>
>Good.
>
>Anyone robot building at the moment? Broadsword IV is pretty much
>complete but the cupboard is bare financewise and I'm trying to find
>some sort of sponsorship.
Sponsorship becomes increaseingly hard to find, with the lack of
widely advertised events, with amss appeal.
I'm most of the way through a new arnea, although it'll be for 12lb
(roughly 5kg) only, since its only got 10mm lexan (whilst 10mm might
do for FRA, and mentorn, in the US we take the safety seriously)
>>
leo van miert
> I'm most of the way through a new arnea, although it'll be for 12lb
> (roughly 5kg) only, since its only got 10mm lexan (whilst 10mm might
> do for FRA, and mentorn, in the US we take the safety seriously)
I'm not to keen on this implication.
Chika
Nor I. Especially as I still remember a certain flail type bot from the
States that was disqualified for safety reasons in an international RW.
Certainly, in the UK at least, there are all sorts of safety measures that
need to be considered, not least because the HSE tends to take a dim view
of anything considered to be dangerous to viewing public, operators and
officials alike.
Perhaps you might want to expand, or at least rephrase that.
flobert
wrote:
>In article <11h9bp7...@corp.supernews.com>,
> leo van miert <newsr...@robotwars.demon.nl> wrote:
>> flobert wrote:
>
>> > I'm most of the way through a new arnea, although it'll be for 12lb
>> > (roughly 5kg) only, since its only got 10mm lexan (whilst 10mm might
>> > do for FRA, and mentorn, in the US we take the safety seriously)
>
>> I'm not to keen on this implication.
>
>Nor I. Especially as I still remember a certain flail type bot from the
>States that was disqualified for safety reasons in an international RW.
I was there, I know the team very well. The 'safety concern' was that
if the welds break, the abysmally thin lexan (1/4") wouldn't last more
than a minisecond under the impact. They wanted certifications on the
welds (something not required on stuff below the level of like
bridges). In short, the arena was too weak to hold it. They made up a
reason for Tv. just ask anyone who was there. Kinda became a lou
discussion in the pits. What you see on TV, especially with robot WArs
is not true. The number of matches where they've edited to make it
look like there was a clear winner, even edited two seperate fights
into one for the TV before now. Oh, and that 'safety thing' was less
than 2 weeks after one of the expert safety crew badly fucked up,
broke a bot, stuck it in the arena, and had it run off and go through
someones foot. Robot Wars could barely SPELL safety, let alone
practice it.
>Certainly, in the UK at least, there are all sorts of safety measures that
>need to be considered, not least because the HSE tends to take a dim view
>of anything considered to be dangerous to viewing public, operators and
>officials alike.
Great. Now go phone HSE, and ask how many events they've inspected,
how many arena's they've analysed or have on record, or how many
safety officers they've trained and/or certified, At last count, I
believe it was ONe, and he hasn't done any events, that i know of, for
years.
>
>Perhaps you might want to expand, or at least rephrase that.
That better?
Julian Richards
>On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:28:55 +0100, Chika <miy...@spam-no-way.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <11h9bp7...@corp.supernews.com>,
>> leo van miert <newsr...@robotwars.demon.nl> wrote:
>>> flobert wrote:
>>
>>> > I'm most of the way through a new arnea, although it'll be for 12lb
>>> > (roughly 5kg) only, since its only got 10mm lexan (whilst 10mm might
>>> > do for FRA, and mentorn, in the US we take the safety seriously)
>>
>>> I'm not to keen on this implication.
>>
>>Nor I. Especially as I still remember a certain flail type bot from the
>>States that was disqualified for safety reasons in an international RW.
>
>I was there, I know the team very well. The 'safety concern' was that
>if the welds break, the abysmally thin lexan (1/4") wouldn't last more
>than a minisecond under the impact. They wanted certifications on the
>welds (something not required on stuff below the level of like
>bridges). In short, the arena was too weak to hold it. They made up a
>reason for Tv. just ask anyone who was there. Kinda became a lou
>discussion in the pits. What you see on TV, especially with robot WArs
>is not true. The number of matches where they've edited to make it
>look like there was a clear winner, even edited two seperate fights
>into one for the TV before now.
I've had that. Fighting Typhoon, Broadsword II was in a life or death
struggle (ending in death for us and one of the most impressive
destructions, caused by House Robots, that caused gasps in the
audience). The camera showed none of that but concentrated on the
House Robots giving poor Malc 1.5 a beating after it had lost a wheel.
We had been put in as cannon fodder for the all conquering Typhoon. It
almost didn't go to plan as our high ground clearance meant that
Typhoon's blades passed harmlessly underneath.
>Oh, and that 'safety thing' was less
>than 2 weeks after one of the expert safety crew badly fucked up,
>broke a bot, stuck it in the arena, and had it run off and go through
>someones foot. Robot Wars could barely SPELL safety, let alone
>practice it.
The incident you refer to dates your anecdote to Series 1. As time
when on, the safety culture develeped significantly.
flobert
wrote:
Yep, matches picked to give the result they want is another well
established practice from them. Why do you think Mentorn was so upset
about that RAzer-Tornado fight. They issued a press release giving the
winner just before the match happened, since they thought they knew
what was going to happen.
>
>>Oh, and that 'safety thing' was less
>>than 2 weeks after one of the expert safety crew badly fucked up,
>>broke a bot, stuck it in the arena, and had it run off and go through
>>someones foot. Robot Wars could barely SPELL safety, let alone
>>practice it.
>
>The incident you refer to dates your anecdote to Series 1. As time
>when on, the safety culture develeped significantly.
Wrong. i was actually during series 3. Early October 99 i beliebve it
was (just a month before the BattleBots payperview event. That was
when they started requiring tethers. I know it, because i was there.
Was the studio next to 'who wants to be a millionare'
If the safety culture improved, why then was the arena still only
10mm lexan in 2001+2002? did they not hear about the 13mm pieces that
cracked and broke when hit by some bots. the spinners that went
through inch-thick lexan, i can understand ignoring, since they don't
allow any really high-powered spinners in, but the cases of
heavyweights popping entire sheets of inch thick out, and they were
held in much better than the Robot awrs arena. (i did a good
examination of the arena when I was there for some fliming, was one of
the first teams in there in fact, (since the american ones were filmed
in there first) in 2000 - It hasn't changed in any significant manner
since them, i'm assured. We also have a rule thats kinda common - push
a bot over the kickplates, and into the lexan, thats an automatic DQ,
if anything more than an accident. Y'all seem to make a 'fun habbit'
of doing just that.
Anyone phoned up HSE, and asked how many people they've certified, how
many arenas they've checked, how many events they've inspected? I'm
still betting none.
leo van miert
A lot of stuf regarding Mentorn, wich i agree was not the best advocate
of safety in roboteering. They saw it as a show first, and fighting
event second.
But you referred to the FRA as the same as Mentorn, and that, as a
safety official for the DRG is something i can not agree with.
At ALL our events we watch out for safety issues, we have meetings
before and after events regarding the event in question, what went well,
what went wrong, what needs improvement.
For the European Championships we designed and built a Bull penn capable
of keeping any robot within its weight limit no matter how fast it spin
or how hard it kicks. The arena was to be rebuilt and a extra Polycarb
enclosure was to bet set around the new Roaming Robot arena, with a
thick cloth (dont know what material it was, but we tested a competition
crossbow @ point blank range and no arrow got through) as roofing material.
Still if we felt the precautions we made were not up for the task, we
simply would not have allowed spinners to compete with active weapons.
We can not and will not ever willfully put the safety of roboteers and
the audience on the line. We are all to aware of the consequenses,
virtually making it impossible to enjoy our sport aftwerwards.
> established practice from them. Why do you think Mentorn was so upset
> about that RAzer-Tornado fight. They issued a press release giving the
> winner just before the match happened, since they thought they knew
> what was going to happen.
I was there when that happened. They pulled the same stunt later in RW
Extreme, but that gamble did pay off. That has nothing to do with te
safety aspect though.
> If the safety culture improved, why then was the arena still only
> 10mm lexan in 2001+2002?
The thickness of the outer wall (i assume you dont mean the arena side
wall, cause thats 2 sheets of poly with a gap in between them, not one)
did not worry me that much cause there was pley of sway from the trusses
dissapating kinetic energy quite well, but the fact there is a gap
between the floor and the wall did. If a robot went out of control that
was low enough could very wel drive under the polycarb into the
audience. Mentorn needed that gap for the cameratrolly that went over
the track there.
> Anyone phoned up HSE, and asked how many people they've certified, how
> many arenas they've checked, how many events they've inspected? I'm
> still betting none.
They were at the 2001 event (that was series 5 if im not mistaken),
thats why they rules changed regarding gasbottles the year afterwards.
Regards,
Leo van Miert
flobert
<newsr...@robotwars.demon.nl> wrote:
>flobert wrote:
>
>A lot of stuf regarding Mentorn, wich i agree was not the best advocate
>of safety in roboteering. They saw it as a show first, and fighting
>event second.
>
>But you referred to the FRA as the same as Mentorn, and that, as a
>safety official for the DRG is something i can not agree with.
>
OK then, whata re your official safety certifications and
classifications? Who were you trained and certified by, when, how
recently were you recertified, etc. Lets see just how far its come, by
starting with yourself.
Julian Richards
>>The incident you refer to dates your anecdote to Series 1. As time
>>when on, the safety culture develeped significantly.
>
>Wrong. i was actually during series 3. Early October 99 i beliebve it
>was (just a month before the BattleBots payperview event. That was
>when they started requiring tethers. I know it, because i was there.
>Was the studio next to 'who wants to be a millionare'
I was told the tale at the series 6 by the Megahurtz team. It was from
the days when BBC staff went into the arena to set it up with live
robots present. I'm not sure when the bull pens came in.
leo van miert
>>But you referred to the FRA as the same as Mentorn, and that, as a
>>safety official for the DRG is something i can not agree with.
> OK then, whata re your official safety certifications and
> classifications?
There isn't a certification in the world that covers all the safety
aspects of robot combat. Theres mechanics, construction, electronics,
RC, Health issues, fire safety. But its not like i know every aspect of
the event. Nor am i required too. All i need to do is consult with the
others to see wether or not an event is safe. Its a team thing, not a
one man show.
Dutchrobotgames has several engineers working toghether on arena and
bull penn. They can meet any standard requirement you can think of short
of detonating a explosives (wich is not allowed by the rules of course).
We also work closely with the fire dept from the area our event takes
place. We also get all nessasery permits from the town or city council
for running sporting events.
My job is to see if a robot meet the requirements as set by the build
rules of the FRA wich are adopted by the DRG. That means making sure the
robot has its wheels clear while on the workbench, no gas in the robot
while on the workbench, that all gasbottles are of an approved type,
that all the safety guards and/or locking pins are in place, removable
link is in an accessable place without the use of tools, dump valve is
open, pressure relief valve is installed, electrical wiring is insulated
etc.
I will not check if all welds are certified, i dont care if youre robot
desintegrates in the arena because a weld gave out. As long as i know it
can safely desintegrate in the enclosure of the arena its no skin of my
nose if the builder doesn't know how to weld.
So far we have had multiple events, without spinners in Holland and
Belgium cause we knew it could not be done safely at the time. We did
have events in the UK however with spinners and apart from one event
where i wasn't happy with (and i did speak up about that and we did make
alterations after that), all full contact events that were approved by
the FRA where in our conviction safe.
Now i have seen several movies from US venues, that were nowhere near as
safe as the events i have been to, but ive also seen events that had
there safety aspects well in hand. And i saw some stupid stunts done by
roboteers both in the US and Europe alike. I do not think for a second
that US events are any safer or unsafer then the European ones. We all
want the same thing, massive destruction on the inside, safety on the
outside. And i know for a fact FRA events are definatly safer then
Mentorn regulated it.
pulgao
wrote:
>Nor I. Especially as I still remember a certain flail type bot from the
>States that was disqualified for safety reasons in an international RW.
Mauler.
-- Steve Lopez