I took part

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gareth goddard

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Oct 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/10/98
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Hi i took part in Robot Wrs uk e-mail me for more info

Rahat 'The Rahat' Husain

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Oct 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/10/98
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What was it like?

no...@usa.net

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Oct 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/10/98
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In article <6vo8qr$2m2$1...@nclient1-gui.server.virgin.net>,

"gareth goddard" <gareth....@virgin.net> wrote:
> Hi i took part in Robot Wrs uk e-mail me for more info
>
Hi, I don't ever want to take part in Robot Wars UK (aka sycronised RC's)

I mean, I bet your glad Mentorn decided to break their own rules for a second
time in a row, and have flame weapons in use against contestants, but
feverantly refuse for the opposite to ever happen. In fact, I don't know why
they bother to call it Robot Wars, as the rules they use in no way match the
oficial RW rules('97).

Anyway, this series may well not be shown after all, as the trademark is up
for sale. If the new owner refuses to let Mentorn use the Trademark, or
Mantorn doesn't want to pay what is being asked, it will probably have to
cancel the show, or if not, the new owners may do what Plotink (sp?) did to
Gary Clien and Robotica (If you don't know who, when, or what that was,
should you be in this forum? Go and try comp.lawnmowers.radio.control
instead.)

In short, I hope that the new owners WON'T let Mentorn use the name, and the
way will be left open for nation, and regional events, hopefully leading to a
World championship.

K'Tetch Dureek
(who can only get this newsgroup now on Dejanews.)
http://come.to/warrior

NOTE The opinions expressed here are mine, mine and, er... mine. No-one elses,
okay? Good!

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Chris Crosskey

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Oct 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/11/98
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On 10 Oct 1998 19:22:34, "gareth goddard" wrote:
>Hi i took part in Robot Wrs uk e-mail me for more info
>
Hi , So did I

Chris Crosskey,
Team ISIS, we had Scarab in series 1 and Rameses II in series 2. I've satarted
trying to get everything soreted out for our next one, Thutmoses III for series
3, it doesn't seem likely that we'll make the live event with Thutmoses, but
Rameses will be there. Despite the beating we took from the house robots for
daring to give Mortis a hard time we're up and running again. You'll
occasionally find me on Delphi under the name ChrisRa

chrisc

no...@usa.net

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Oct 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/12/98
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Chris. I wouldn't get started on a new bot until the end of the month. The
thing is, you see, The robotwars trademark is up for auction on the 30th. If
whoever gets it decides not to licence it to Mentorn's game-show, then
basically, Mantorn are stuffed. They could try and change the name of the
show, but as the forst program is regestered as robot Wars, and the second
show is like it, the new owner can do to Mentorn, what Profile (who licenced
the TM to Mentorn) did to the fans own event in the states, Legally shut it
down. In case you didn't hear of it, RW98 was cancelled over legal stuff.
Someone (If I remember right, Profile) kept the origional venue, and said
there would still be an event on. Howver, Gary Clien (sorry is it's spelt
wrong Gary) had another event organised in The Cow Palace in SF, which all
the US fans and competitors booked for. Profile got pissed at that, and
basically threatened to bankrupt Gary, unless he cancelled the event - hardly
sporting.

Also, I doubt that Scarab, or indeed any of the other bot's that have
appeared in RW, with the exception of Andy and Amanda's bot (built to be able
to compete in the US too, If I remember) and that Mortice one from Camebridge
Uni. all the rest would be blown away, especially all those crap light- and
feather-weights.

If you want to prove just how good your bot's are, when the first UK/europe
SORC(a society created by, the RW contenders of the states, and soon to be
THE reconing force in robotic combat) event happens, why don't you try it.
You may event get through it, into the European championchip, and from there,
the World championship. However, the question remains, are you hard enough?


Scarab, wasn't that the slow moving cheese on toast? You'd have probably been
better off sticking grilled Wendsleydale on rye, and chucking that in the
arena...

NOTE the views expressed here are the stements of the poster only, and in
no-way reflect the perspective of any party mentioned herewithin.

K'Tetch Dureek.

In article <6vq2kv$13n$2...@irk.zetnet.co.uk>,

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------

JUPO

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Oct 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/13/98
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no...@usa.net wrote:

I doubt a trademark problem over the pond is going to cause much bother,
the easy way for a new owner to exploit it over here is grant Mentorn
the rights. Failing that, I'm sure they can come up with a new name for
the show. After all, their format is *totaly* different to the US
version.

PS there is no such thing as a "Crap" robot

Jon Witte

no...@usa.net

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Oct 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/13/98
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In article <3622FE...@zetnet.co.uk>,

ju...@zetnet.co.uk wrote:
> no...@usa.net wrote:
>
> I doubt a trademark problem over the pond is going to cause much bother,
> the easy way for a new owner to exploit it over here is grant Mentorn
> the rights.
Erm, I've got a good feeling that the TM licencing will go in the UK, to any
licenced SORKUK events, not Mentorn.


> Failing that, I'm sure they can come up with a new name for
> the show. After all, their format is *totaly* different to the US
> version.

ERm, but the first series IS fully licenced RW. If the second series is like
the first, then Mentorn will be in trouble. I belive that as the first series
has already been shown, the name of that will be allowed to stay as is, but
the second series is not publicly released as RW yet, and so the name can
still be made to change. I also think that because of this, Mentorn will not
be able to in any way "slag off" SORC, SORCUK, or RW.

>
> PS there is no such thing as a "Crap" robot
>

Erm, need I mention, "psychoSprout", that mouse thing, quite a few of the
lightweghts, including that really really fast one done Blue Peter style, ans
the WYSIWYG one, that after one tough has it's only metal exterior piece
hanging off... do you wish me to continue?

> Jon Witte

K'Tetch Dureek
aka Andrew Norton
http://surf.to/warrior

Avalon1999
an Avalon conventions Ltd. production
http://come.to/avalonconvention

WARNING VIEWS EXPRESSED HERE ARE AUTHORS OWN PERSONAL VIEWS.

JUPO

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Oct 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/14/98
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no...@usa.net wrote:

> Erm, I've got a good feeling that the TM licencing will go in the UK, to any
> licenced SORKUK events, not Mentorn.

Not if Mentorn more, and they've got a *lot* tied up in this!



> Erm, need I mention, "psychoSprout", that mouse thing, quite a few of the
> lightweghts, including that really really fast one done Blue Peter style, ans
> the WYSIWYG one, that after one tough has it's only metal exterior piece
> hanging off... do you wish me to continue?

Better than all the idiots who slag off other machines and can't be
arsed to build one themselves.
(PsycoSprout was an original idea that didn't work out - I liked it!)
Everyone starts somewhere - not everyone has a huge budget.
What happened to that nice "Big Family" feel we used to have?

Jon Witte
jon....@zetnet.co.uk

no...@usa.net

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Oct 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/14/98
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In article <362478...@zetnet.co.uk>,

ju...@zetnet.co.uk wrote:
> no...@usa.net wrote:
>
> > Erm, I've got a good feeling that the TM licencing will go in the UK, to any
> > licenced SORKUK events, not Mentorn.
>
> Not if Mentorn more, and they've got a *lot* tied up in this!
>

I don't understand what you mean. TRy actually thinking before you start
typing... As far as I know, Profile can't bid because they're one of the
involved parties, Mentorn can't because they're British... Trey has got
preferential bidding, and only has to match, not better, any qualifying
bidders... He is one of the honourable people of RW. Almost every RW
competitor in the US really detests profile. Unfortunatly, Mentorn chose to
be involved with them... See where this is leading?

Also, I believe he would let SORC use the TM for their events, including ones
put on by the UK arm.

> > Erm, need I mention, "psychoSprout", that mouse thing, quite a few of the
> > lightweghts, including that really really fast one done Blue Peter style,
ans
> > the WYSIWYG one, that after one tough has it's only metal exterior piece
> > hanging off... do you wish me to continue?
>
> Better than all the idiots who slag off other machines and can't be
> arsed to build one themselves.

Who says I can't be arsed? I did build one a year or two ago, I saw Mentorns
rules, and I almost pissed myself with laughter over them! I can't beleive
anyone would have been so stupid as to actually agree to that crap. (I really
liked the restriction on entering other events, and the fat that you would
get 0.25% of all merchandising on your bot...). Oh, don't forget, you're not
allowed to show any sponcership logo's, even though that's how most big teams
fund themselves... (I know, it's auties rule, but Mentorn coulda dont it for
C4, or 5...)

Also, right now, I'm busy trying to start up a "conventions" company, as well
as Trek cons etc. WE could well be doing some events on behalf of SORCUK. I
may well compete, but then, events don't run themselves, and, with a degree
in Robotics, I doubt I would have an easy job at such an event...

> (PsycoSprout was an original idea that didn't work out - I liked it!)

Well, it might have worked, if done properly, in the sorts winpy weedy style
of RWUK. However, what's the econd letter stand for? WAR? I think so. If you
were a general in a war, would you say:

"oh no, all those tanks(bots) will beat the crap out of us. I know! Let's
send out a man on a bicycle.(psycosprout) Yes, that pretty much is a valid
comparison, as Psycosprout was slow, unarmed, weak (It was made out of paper
for god sakes!) and needed only one good hit to disable(to throw the car
inside about).

The bit that really got me though, was tom Gutteridge telling everyone that
all the robots were built based upon their robot's merit. Anyone could have
got an RC car, stuck a bit on wire on top, and put it in a 3ft Paper mache
ball. no merit in it at all. What about that furry one? Mentorn allowed it in
the event, knowing it was going to face a Flamethrower (illegal in their
rules!) and, once set on fire, the bot would have to be disqualified, and put
out. Hardly in the spirit of the competition. Actaully, when you think about
it, Mentorn didn't really pay any attention to the rules at all, did they?
they had Bot's competeing that were too heavy, about at least 10%, ones with
Fiberous material, Flamethrowers in the arena. Makes you wonder why they had
the rules in the first place, doesn't it?

In fact, what you competed in was not so much Robot Wars, but Robot TOYS. As I
have said, I don't think any of them would stand up against any of the US bot,
in fact, I'll go so far as to say I doubt they'd eben get past the safety
inspection, and weigh-in at any event where the rules (proper rules, not
Mentorn's 4 page version - We're talking 30 pages of tried, tested and SAFE
rules.)

> Everyone starts somewhere - not everyone has a huge budget.

Erm, your point being? Rw is a sport, just like football. You wanna do well,
you gotta put some money behind it, and sponcership too (but that was
discussed above). /another example would be F1. the budget of Pacific was
nowhere near that of Ferrari, or williams, or McClarren. What happened? They
didn't come anywhere, and ended up being bankrupt. I heard a stement from one
of the team's top men saying "If we had waited, and saved a bit more, we
would have been more competitive" So there is your answer to that one - Save,
save, save!

> What happened to that nice "Big Family" feel we used to have?
>

Erm, Profile, and their lacky, Mentorn, ruined it. The american's still have
it, along with the brits intelegent enought to join them, (like me!) and not
that money-grabbing con-artist, Mentorn...


> Jon Witte
> jon....@zetnet.co.uk


K'Tetch Dureek
aka Andrew Norton
http://surf.to/warrior

Avalon 1999
an Avalon Conventions Ltd. production
http://come.to/avalonconvention

NOTE: VIEWS EXPREED HERE ARE AUTHORS OWN, AND DO NOT REFELECT ON THE VIEWS OF
ANY OTHER PARTY HEREIN MENTIONED

Jon Witte

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Oct 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/14/98
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>> Not if Mentorn more, and they've got a *lot* tied up in this!
>>
>
>I don't understand what you mean.

No, neither do I... forgot to put the "Pay" in there. Damn brain
working too fast again :-)

>Mentorn can't because they're British...

*really*

<Snip>


> WE could well be doing some events on behalf of SORCUK. I
>may well compete, but then, events don't run themselves, and, with a degree
>in Robotics, I doubt I would have an easy job at such an event...

And there you've hit the nail on the head. I agree with you Mentorn
dick around with their own rules when it suits them, but if they
hadn't got a grip, organized the thing & got a high profile in the
UK, we'd still be at the driving Tin plated RC cars around.

>> (PsycoSprout was an original idea that didn't work out - I liked it!)

>Well, it might have worked, if done properly, in the sorts winpy weedy style
>of RWUK. However, what's the econd letter stand for? WAR? I think so. If you
>were a general in a war, would you say:

What have you got against RWUK

Jon Witte

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Oct 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/14/98
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Sorry, Mouse crisis, I'll finish this time....

>> Not if Mentorn more, and they've got a *lot* tied up in this!

>I don't understand what you mean.

No, neither do I... forgot to put the "Pay" in there. Damn brain


working too fast again :-)

>Mentorn can't because they're British...

*really*

<Snip>


> WE could well be doing some events on behalf of SORCUK. I
>may well compete, but then, events don't run themselves, and, with a degree
>in Robotics, I doubt I would have an easy job at such an event...

And there you've hit the nail on the head. I agree with you Mentorn


dick around with their own rules when it suits them, but if they
hadn't got a grip, organized the thing & got a high profile in the
UK, we'd still be at the driving Tin plated RC cars around.

>> (PsycoSprout was an original idea that didn't work out - I liked it!)

>Well, it might have worked, if done properly, in the sorts winpy weedy style
>of RWUK. However, what's the econd letter stand for? WAR? I think so. If you
>were a general in a war, would you say:

<Big Snip>

What have you got against RWUK? Did they reject your application?

>> Everyone starts somewhere - not everyone has a huge budget.

>Erm, your point being? <snip>So there is your answer to that one - Save,
>save, save!

And your first robot was, naturally, perfect with no room for
improvement.

>> What happened to that nice "Big Family" feel we used to have?

>Erm, Profile, and their lacky, Mentorn, ruined it. The american's still have
>it, along with the brits intelegent enought to join them, (like me!) and not
>that money-grabbing con-artist, Mentorn...

Don't confuse the organization with the players. Fortunately, there
are very few folks out there who dump on their "Fellows". Shame I'm
talking to one of them

Jon Witte
RobotWars Stuff at...
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/prickly/rw.htm


Jon Witte

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Oct 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/14/98
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>K'Tetch Dureek
>aka Andrew Norton
>http://surf.to/warrior

BTW "<html><body><h1> HTTP/1.1 Server Too Busy</h1></body></html>" is
a bit of a cop out, if this is an example of your Web work, I'd hate
to see your robot.

Jon

no...@usa.net

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Oct 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/14/98
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In article <362802dd...@news.zetnet.co.uk>,

jon....@zetnet.co.uk (Jon Witte) wrote:
> Sorry, Mouse crisis, I'll finish this time....
>
> >> Not if Mentorn more, and they've got a *lot* tied up in this!
>
> >I don't understand what you mean.
>
> No, neither do I... forgot to put the "Pay" in there. Damn brain
> working too fast again :-)
>
> >Mentorn can't because they're British...
>
> *really*

Yes, as far as I have gathered, qualified bidders (ie parties) also have to
be legal US citizens. Mentorn is a Limited company. As such, it is a legal
entity. I don't think it is regestered in the US, so therefore it can't bid.
Does that answer your "*really*"?

> <Snip>


> > WE could well be doing some events on behalf of SORCUK. I
> >may well compete, but then, events don't run themselves, and, with a degree
> >in Robotics, I doubt I would have an easy job at such an event...
>

> And there you've hit the nail on the head. I agree with you Mentorn
> dick around with their own rules when it suits them, but if they
> hadn't got a grip, organized the thing & got a high profile in the
> UK, we'd still be at the driving Tin plated RC cars around.
>

Shows how much you know. There have been events like this happenning in the UK
now for thee past few years...

Also, RobotWars (the proper, US one) has quite a following in the UK
already...

> >> (PsycoSprout was an original idea that didn't work out - I liked it!)
>
> >Well, it might have worked, if done properly, in the sorts winpy weedy style
> >of RWUK. However, what's the econd letter stand for? WAR? I think so. If you
> >were a general in a war, would you say:
>

> <Big Snip>
>
> What have you got against RWUK? Did they reject your application?

As I said, I saw the entry "restrictions, and I though, "you gotta be f*cking
joking! I'm not gonna aggree to this piece of s**t!" That answer your
question. Actually, I was going to try and attend robotica (do you even know
what that was?) until Mentorn's "pal" Profile threatened it's organiser with
legal action unless the event was cancelled, whcih it was, about 3-4 days
before the event. Just as well business came up eally, wasn't it?

>
> >> Everyone starts somewhere - not everyone has a huge budget.
>

> >Erm, your point being? <snip>So there is your answer to that one - Save,
> >save, save!
>


> And your first robot was, naturally, perfect with no room for
> improvement.

Oh, I wouldn't say that. However, I did put more that the day it obviously
took to make that thing. Admit it, you could have made that in less than a
day, couldn't you? I know I could!

> >> What happened to that nice "Big Family" feel we used to have?
>
> >Erm, Profile, and their lacky, Mentorn, ruined it. The american's still have
> >it, along with the brits intelegent enought to join them, (like me!) and not
> >that money-grabbing con-artist, Mentorn...
>

> Don't confuse the organization with the players. Fortunately, there
> are very few folks out there who dump on their "Fellows". Shame I'm
> talking to one of them

Actully, you arn't! In fact, the only person I've ever dumped on, on this
whole topic, is you. Mainly because you are sticking to a vision that most
other robot-builders, especially the serious ones, know is completely wrong.
A proper RW event should not be a game show...

How about, at the start of an F1 race, they get them to jump over a couple of
double-decker buses? It's basically the same as the current RWUK thing...
Can you see my point now?

What Mentorn has filmed IS NOT ROBOTWARS. That is basically what I've been
trying to get across to you.

>
> Jon Witte
> RobotWars Stuff at...
> http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/prickly/rw.htm
>

By the way, that HTTP1.1 page you got was not written by me, but by your own
browser. You stupid or what? occasionally, my site does get busy, in fact,
I've had to reset the counter weekly, it's that busy...

K'Tetch Dureek
aka Andrew Norton
http://surf.to/warrior

avalon 1999
An Avalon Conventions Ltd. production
http://come.to/avalonconvention

DISLAIMER: WHAT IS SAID IS WHAT i SAY. NO-ONE ELSE...

Steve Turnbull's Robots

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Oct 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/14/98
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In message <6vu3ua$jkf$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
no...@usa.net wrote:

> If you want to prove just how good your bot's are, when the first
> UK/europe SORC(a society created by, the RW contenders of the states,
> and soon to be THE reconing force in robotic combat) event happens,

> why don't you try it [blah blah blah]

Spot the vested interest.

The worst form of promotion is attempting to down the opposition.

Anyone with half a brain would realise that any new owner of the
Robot Wars name would be very keen to encourage Mentorn since they
are the ones making the money out of it at present.

(Only someone with a vested interest in seeing Mentorn fail would
try to convince others of the opposite -- not that saying it on
this ng would make it true anyway.)

--
Steve Turnbull (rob...@turnbull.cix.co.uk)
Robots

Steve Turnbull's Robots

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Oct 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/14/98
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In message <362478...@zetnet.co.uk>
JUPO <ju...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

> What happened to that nice "Big Family" feel we used to have?

Prats like him try to usurp it.

JUPO

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Oct 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/15/98
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Steve Turnbull's Robots wrote:

> > What happened to that nice "Big Family" feel we used to have?
>
> Prats like him try to usurp it.

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Anyhow, nice to see this
NG working again !

Jon Witte

Jon Witte

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Oct 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/15/98
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no...@usa.net wrote:

>Yes, as far as I have gathered, qualified bidders (ie parties) also have to
>be legal US citizens. Mentorn is a Limited company. As such, it is a legal
>entity. I don't think it is regestered in the US, so therefore it can't bid.
>Does that answer your "*really*"?

Yup.

>As I said, I saw the entry "restrictions, and I though, "you gotta be f*cking
>joking! I'm not gonna aggree to this piece of s**t!"

Aside from the tossy games we have to play, what restrictions are you
on about?

>Oh, I wouldn't say that. However, I did put more that the day it obviously
>took to make that thing. Admit it, you could have made that in less than a
>day, couldn't you? I know I could!

Gosh. I wish I was that good. Series 1 was done on short notice using
novices. Series 2 entrants were *light years* better.

>A proper RW event should not be a game show...

Agreed, but hey - not an ideal world

>How about, at the start of an F1 race, they get them to jump over a couple of
>double-decker buses? It's basically the same as the current RWUK thing...
>Can you see my point now?

Yes, but it 'aint going to be worth Mentorn managing the event if it
doesn't have mass audience appeal. Unfortunately, this means we get
all the junk about "Cold Fusion Drive" for the kiddies, but the
attitude of everyone (I mean *everyone*) I met is series 2 was spot
on. If it hadn't been for the TV series, I probably wouldn't have
heard of RW (that probably makes me some kind of hermit) If it
broadens awareness, It's a good thing, agreed?

>What Mentorn has filmed IS NOT ROBOTWARS. That is basically what I've been
>trying to get across to you.

Still not really worth arguing the toss about.

>By the way, that HTTP1.1 page you got was not written by me, but by your own
>browser. You stupid or what?

Yes, I am.
I apologize for that - I should do my homework before I flame.

no...@usa.net

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Oct 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/15/98
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In article <adf1e9548%rob...@turnbull.cix.co.uk>,
steve, my aargument was not with you. also, I am battling with Mentorn because
of what they have said and done

Strike 1 Tom gutteridge said "All entries were chosen on the robot's merits".
Looking at the entrants, I can plainly see that that isn't so.

Strike 2
Mentorn created a woefully inadequate rules sheet, and didn't even stick to it
(weight limits, flames in the arena, fibre, etc...)

Strike 3, and out... Many people, if not most, now associate RobotWars with
the TV program. Thus, they are discouraged by the fact that instead of just
building their robot for fighting (incidentally, this was THE idea behind
RobotWars) they have to also build it to compete in an obstical course, and
another "event" of the production crew's choice (snooker, a race, a maze
game...) and it's quite concevable hat any bots built on the proper premise
would not even make it through the first two rounds. I would like to see
Blendo, or Herc make it through that obstical course.

Are you beginning now to see what I am talking about? I am not just thinking
of the petty things you seem to be, ie "If wat this guy says happens, I'mnnot
going to get on the telly!" I am thinking about the big picture. For example,
would you rather be filmed by the BBC, shown at times when Kids are the main
componant of the audiance, or take part in a World grand final, filmed by
ESPN, and maybe Fox too, ans Shown, not just in the whole of the US, but maye
even (and quite posible too!) licenced to channels like Eurosport, and ITV,
to be shown all over Europe? That is what SORC is going to end up doing.

Remember wrestling? that was, ans is, big in the states. Now, do you remember
the British League? It had people in it like Big Daddy, and Giant Haystacks.
What happened to that league? I don't see it anywhere? Now, the only kind of
wrestling you can get in this country is American (WWF, WCW, NWO etc...).
Wel, Mentorn is the Brit league (No, I don't remember what it was called) and
Sorc is going to be the American thing. And before you say it (unless you
already have), yes, Us wrestling IS a big thing in this country. Example - In
1994, WWF's SummerSlam came from Wembly stadium. It was packed to capacity.
About 96-97% of all fans who attended were British. Just look what heppens
now with other WWF events here - Sky puts them on premium channels (or is
that Box Office thing now?) That could happen to RW in a few years...

Do you see what I'm getting at now?

Now, I don't know about you, but I'm very passionate about my RW. I only want
what's best for everyone. Don't you?

> --
> Steve Turnbull (rob...@turnbull.cix.co.uk)
> Robots
>

K'Tetch Dureek


aka Andrew Norton
http://surf.to/warrior

Avalon1999


An Avalon Conventions Ltd. production

WARNING - MY WORDS, MY THOUGHTS!

no...@usa.net

unread,
Oct 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/15/98
to
In article <3625AF...@zetnet.co.uk>,

Well, If you don't want to join the bus now, Don't start whining in a few
years, after one of the up-comming World Chapionships (so I'm prommised)
saying

"I coulda been a contender" because Mentorn's rules are so lax compaired to
Sorc, and focus mainly on the promotions side, which Is strainge for a
competition isn't it? I really doubt that your bot, after a couple of years
of evolution, would even be considered entering, or if you would consider
entering. After all, we're goign to let you know about all the details of the
arena etc. beforehand, not like mentorn and the grids, the flame pit(s?) et
al.

Yes, I may well shout, and rant and rave, but is it the only way to galvanse
you into action. For a start, 1) SORC is run by the members, not a TV
company. 2) Most, if not all, f it's members, and definatly the elected
committee (who elected Tom, and the est of them to head of Mentorn?) have all
built robots, and most have competed in previous events. 3) All members have
technical knowledge, many work within the robotics industry, or have done at
some time (eg ILM) unlike Mentorn, where they had to go and Get the BBC to
build the house Bots for them. 4) SORC doesn't charge for the rules 5) SORC
is dedecated to advancing RW, to promote electronics knowledge, etcetera,
etcetera, whereas Mentorn is mainly concerned with lining their pockets. 6)
SORC will halp you with technical problems, as long as you are reasonable
about it (ie no "how do I build a robot?" questions), whereas I believe
Mentorn won't. Mind you, with rules as lax as theirs, I'm surprised no-one's
tried to enter a tank ("It's a little bit over the weight limit, but you let
that Barry thing enter, and he was over too..."). No offence team Barry.

Are you starting to see my point? Yes, I may well shout spite, but it sure as
hell beats spouting sh*t, doesn't it Jon?

K'Tetch Dureek
yadda yadda yadda.

DISCLAIMER : MY WORDS, i SAID EM, THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT!

Jon Witte

unread,
Oct 16, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/16/98
to
Nozza Wrote...

>Remember wrestling?

So let me get this straight. you don't want Mentorn to treat RW like a
game show. SORC will rule all & It'll get massive coverage, just like
WWF. Because of course, WWF is unrehearsed & spontaneous, run by
professional wrestlers as a serious sport, with no TV production
company trying to excite a mass audience.

Can you see what I'm getting at.... :-)

Jon Witte

unread,
Oct 16, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/16/98
to
More Nozza

<snip>

> After all, we're going to let you know about all the details of the


>arena etc. beforehand, not like mentorn and the grids, the flame pit(s?) et
>al.

Erm (to coin a phrase) we had full schematics & dimensions this year
Mentorn were new at it too last time. Where did you get your info?

>3) All members have technical knowledge, many work within the robotics industry, or have done at
>some time (eg ILM) unlike Mentorn, where they had to go and Get the BBC to
>build the house Bots for them.

Wrong. Matt & Derek were more than helpful at all stages. No, Mentorn
hadn't built any robots, so they got in some folks who had.

<Snip more Anti - Mentorn rantings>

Look, Mentorn isn't Robotwars Incarnate. I will happily fight in any
other competition, Botz was looking good but fizzled (I think).

> Mind you, with rules as lax as theirs, I'm surprised no-one's
>tried to enter a tank ("It's a little bit over the weight limit, but you let
>that Barry thing enter, and he was over too..."). No offence team Barry.

No, there's some flexibility in the rules. Those who obviously hadn't
built with weight in mind were put into a separate class. Those who
were striving for Heavy, but overshot a bit were let in. Those who
overshot a lot had to go on a diet. 1Kg over heavyweight is a little
over 1% of total mass. You want to exclude someone who has gone
through a lot of effort for that? Were you involved in series 2 in any
way, all your comments seem to be directed at the pilot.

>Are you starting to see my point? Yes, I may well shout spite, but it sure as
>hell beats spouting sh*t, doesn't it Jon?

I think you will not rest until your point has been forced down the
throat of anyone who care to listen. What's wrong with a bit of a
polite debate? People can have different viewpoints, y'know....

Steve Turnbull's Robots

unread,
Oct 16, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/16/98
to
In message <705hg6$iq2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
no...@usa.net wrote:

> steve, my argument was not with you.

Yes it is, when you state all your opinions as fact.

> also, I am battling with Mentorn because of what they have said and done

Then you are a fool. Anyone with a hint of marketing skill would use
Mentorn's TV programme as a jumping off point, not waste energy
"fighting" it.

They have popularised the subject. Use it, don't play at silly buggers.

> Strike 1 Tom gutteridge said "All entries were chosen on the robot's
> merits". Looking at the entrants, I can plainly see that that isn't so.

Opinion

> Strike 2
> Mentorn created a woefully inadequate rules sheet, and didn't even
> stick to it (weight limits, flames in the arena, fibre, etc...)

Opinion

> Strike 3, and out... Many people, if not most, now associate RobotWars

> with the TV program. Thus, they are discouraged by the fact...

Opinion

> [...snip...]
> Do you see what I'm getting at now?

I didn't need this to know exactly where you're coming from. I've
been connected with many "enthusiast" markets and you are typical
of a certain type. Not necessarily bad, just idealistic to the point
of incapacity.

> Now, I don't know about you, but I'm very passionate about my RW.
> I only want what's best for everyone. Don't you?

Doesn't everybody? But define "best".

This posting was at least reasonable. However you blew it again with
the other one. Arrogance isn't going to convince anyone.

Nobody denies you your opinion, but your arrogant "I am right, therefore
you must agree with me, and if you don't, you are just plain wrong" does
nothing but put people's backs up -- precisely the people you should
be trying to attract.

There's nothing wrong with idealism but you are certain to throw the
baby out with the bathwater. You have to realise that not everyone
will agree with you *but* that doesn't mean you can't work with them.

You probably think I'm insulting you. Well, perhaps I am, but only
because I have a (no doubt vain) hope that you might realise how
to operate effectively rather than churning out this nonsense.

All this blather you produce is totally irrelevant.

You don't think Mentorn are doing a good job? Fine. So what? Take
what they've given you and use it, and if you can't see what they've
given you then you don't deserve to succeed.

Jon Witte

unread,
Oct 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/17/98
to
Nozza,

1. Did you go to Series 2 at any stage as either a contestant or
spectator?

2. Are you basing this torrent of abuse solely on what you saw in UK
series 1?

3. Have you ever competed in a RW event?

K'tack F'tanng Vark Vark Ole' Biscuit Barrel

adam

unread,
Oct 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/17/98
to

> Yes, I may well shout, and rant and rave, but is it the only way to galvanse
> you into action. For a start, 1) SORC is run by the members, not a TV
> company. 2) Most, if not all, f it's members, and definatly the elected
> committee (who elected Tom, and the est of them to head of Mentorn?) have all
> built robots, and most have competed in previous events. 3) All members have

> technical knowledge, many work within the robotics industry, or have done at
> some time (eg ILM) unlike Mentorn, where they had to go and Get the BBC to
> build the house Bots for them. 4) SORC doesn't charge for the rules 5) SORC
> is dedecated to advancing RW, to promote electronics knowledge, etcetera,
> etcetera, whereas Mentorn is mainly concerned with lining their pockets. 6)
> SORC will halp you with technical problems, as long as you are reasonable
> about it (ie no "how do I build a robot?" questions), whereas I believe
> Mentorn won't. Mind you, with rules as lax as theirs, I'm surprised no-one's

> tried to enter a tank ("It's a little bit over the weight limit, but you let
> that Barry thing enter, and he was over too..."). No offence team Barry.
>
> Are you starting to see my point? Yes, I may well shout spite, but it sure as
> hell beats spouting sh*t, doesn't it Jon?


If you need to galvanize anyone then it's SORC.

You'll probably find that Mentorn voted themselves to the top by getting
up and actually doing something.

Also there are very good support services and advice from Mentorn for
competitors by long time industry people who actually make robots for a
living , shock, horror !

So I still don't see your point and probably never will. We make robots
and fight them whatever the arena, whatever the promoter , whatever the
reason. I guess some do and some just talk about it and make clubs and
rules.

I have done a search on dejanews and altavista for botz, magenta etc.
and its all gone very quiet.

--
Alpha Rocket Shop http://www.tinweb.com/rockets/
Dangerous Machines http://www.tinweb.com/robot/
Discussion Group http://www.tinweb.com/discus/
Links Database http://www.tinweb.com/robot/links/

no...@usa.net

unread,
Oct 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/18/98
to
In article <3628C7FE...@dataark.demon.co.uk>,

adam <bro...@dataark.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Yes, I may well shout, and rant and rave, but is it the only way to galvanse
> > you into action. For a start, 1) SORC is run by the members, not a TV
> > company. 2) Most, if not all, f it's members, and definatly the elected
> > committee (who elected Tom, and the est of them to head of Mentorn?) have
all
> > built robots, and most have competed in previous events. 3) All members have
> > technical knowledge, many work within the robotics industry, or have done at
> > some time (eg ILM) unlike Mentorn, where they had to go and Get the BBC to
> > build the house Bots for them. 4) SORC doesn't charge for the rules 5) SORC
> > is dedecated to advancing RW, to promote electronics knowledge, etcetera,
> > etcetera, whereas Mentorn is mainly concerned with lining their pockets. 6)
> > SORC will halp you with technical problems, as long as you are reasonable
> > about it (ie no "how do I build a robot?" questions), whereas I believe
> > Mentorn won't. Mind you, with rules as lax as theirs, I'm surprised no-one's
> > tried to enter a tank ("It's a little bit over the weight limit, but you let
> > that Barry thing enter, and he was over too..."). No offence team Barry.
> >
> > Are you starting to see my point? Yes, I may well shout spite, but it sure
as
> > hell beats spouting sh*t, doesn't it Jon?
>
> If you need to galvanize anyone then it's SORC.
>
> You'll probably find that Mentorn voted themselves to the top by getting
> up and actually doing something.

Or by stepping on the backs or poor schmucks who build robots for Mentron,
and let hem have Merchandising rights, and restrict them from competitions,
etc. they couldn't believe their luck when they found out thee were people
willing to do what you have done... In fact, my uncle, a record producer,
couldn't beleve it when he found this out. (believe it or not TV and music
businesses are closer than you think!)

>
> Also there are very good support services and advice from Mentorn for
> competitors by long time industry people who actually make robots for a
> living , shock, horror !

WEll, many of Sorc members include people who have been working at SFX houses
for years, and I myself am doing a degree in robotics at present...

>
> So I still don't see your point and probably never will. We make robots
> and fight them whatever the arena, whatever the promoter , whatever the
> reason. I guess some do and some just talk about it and make clubs and
> rules.

Well, we have to make the rules different, as a legal attempt to make it
differnent from Profiles, and we want the infrastructure in place for the
first events. As for the "over-weight" rule alowance of Mentorn, there is an
art to building "TO THE WEIGHT". How fair is it when someone has to cut a
really good weapon out of the desin because it'll put it over the limit, yet
someone else just stays over the limit, and still get allowed to enter? In
fact, why have weight limits at all?

> I have done a search on dejanews and altavista for botz, magenta etc.
> and its all gone very quiet.
>

BotZ - Mike preston has agreed to let Magenta use the name BotZ for her next
event. However, I have not been able to get in contact with her...

> --
> Alpha Rocket Shop http://www.tinweb.com/rockets/
> Dangerous Machines http://www.tinweb.com/robot/
> Discussion Group http://www.tinweb.com/discus/
> Links Database http://www.tinweb.com/robot/links/
>

K'Tetch

adam

unread,
Oct 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/18/98
to
> Or by stepping on the backs or poor schmucks who build robots for Mentron,
> and let hem have Merchandising rights, and restrict them from competitions,
> etc. they couldn't believe their luck when they found out thee were people
> willing to do what you have done... In fact, my uncle, a record producer,
> couldn't beleve it when he found this out. (believe it or not TV and music
> businesses are closer than you think!)
>
> > Also there are very good support services and advice from Mentorn for
> > competitors by long time industry people who actually make robots for a
> > living , shock, horror !

> WEll, many of Sorc members include people who have been working at SFX houses
> for years, and I myself am doing a degree in robotics at present...


Good for you , but I would watch out for Libel laws. Where are all the
other supporters of RobotWars events then ? Its been two years now since
mentorn went public with their plans and no-one else has got an open
competition together. I also wonder how many SORC members are going to
get fed up with 30+ phone calls a week and how many would make it part
of their job description to make house-calls to fix things and help
people like some of the Mentorn crew did. I don't consider myself a poor
schmuck, in fact I take offence at that remark. I made a lot of good
friends, got a few free meals, chance to play with robots in an arena,
saw how TV shows were put together, and some people even got to trash a
hotel room if they lived too far away.

As for Mentorn's rules and regulations I can't remember any part of them
said that you had to sign and build a robot and join in. i.e. if you
don't like it then don't play. In fact they were upfront about this at
the very first meetings where they said its a TV show first and a
competition sort of second, it might be different to a Live event but
you don't have to join in if you don't want to. No-one forced anyone and
I presume everyone could read. They also said that if it took off then
they would be able to finance live events and sure enough there are a
couple planned already.

No doubt a few people decided that they would rather sit at home and
watch the TV and become an expert whilst others now have 2 years
building experience under their belt. I guess if you want to get paid
for it then you should start up your own FX house or model shop or
something. The restrictions are only till the shows go out anyway and
you can fight in any other competition after that, except there are no
other competitions here at all, none, zip, nada, zilch. You see the
point here. If you want to make rules and club badges and passes then
fine, if you want to fight robots then you enter a Mentorn competition.

I think you'll also that the disclosure entry in the contracts are
pretty standard with most things to not give the plot away before the
thing airs. After that people are free to do what they like. Yes , TV
and Music are close as Profile are a record company.


> >
> > So I still don't see your point and probably never will. We make robots
> > and fight them whatever the arena, whatever the promoter , whatever the
> > reason. I guess some do and some just talk about it and make clubs and
> > rules.
>
> Well, we have to make the rules different, as a legal attempt to make it
> differnent from Profiles, and we want the infrastructure in place for the
> first events. As for the "over-weight" rule alowance of Mentorn, there is an
> art to building "TO THE WEIGHT". How fair is it when someone has to cut a
> really good weapon out of the desin because it'll put it over the limit, yet
> someone else just stays over the limit, and still get allowed to enter? In
> fact, why have weight limits at all?


What is all the fuss about with this ? Robotwars started with a few
people getting together and the rules evolved. If the rules are that
different as well then people are not going to be able to run in either
events. I think with the Professional backing and sponsorship of Mentorn
then they will win out, both here and in the States. Even club racing
with cars and bikes have less rules and infrastructure, what they do
have though is events and competitors.
Its the maxim of build it and they will come.


Don't forget that the rules were a lot tighter this year and those that
were too overweight were out in the superheavy melee on their own. See
the Limpet's web pages for that one. There was still a little leeway but
only a small amount this time as there are now plenty of entrants. Come
next year it will be even tighter and even harder to get in. In fact
those who have been building a couple of years now have proven
themselves capable of building and running an entry and are likely to
get an entry over armchair paper-warriors. If you have to cut out a
really good weapon to get in the design limit then it isn't exactly a
good design in the first place then is it. The live events are going to
be stricter still and more like the original american events.

Rules are meant for changing , just like in war all plans change after
the the first contact. As for the weight thing , well this year it was
adhered to. Plus or minus a little bit. And there was probably some
judicious class picking as well to ensure it wasn't totally unfair.


> > I have done a search on dejanews and altavista for botz, magenta etc.
> > and its all gone very quiet.
> >
> BotZ - Mike preston has agreed to let Magenta use the name BotZ for her next
> event. However, I have not been able to get in contact with her...
>

Not heard from them at all , although there are some references in
dejanews to Proweb's Magenta about some parties she ran or something.


I know some people are annoyed they didn't come up with the idea first
or would want to run their own event and get some of the glory. (no
vested interest here I hope with you)

Why not put all that aside and just get out and build something and
bring it along and see how well you can do against some of us.

JUPO

unread,
Oct 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/19/98
to
Are you Ignoring me?


> Nozza,
>
> 1. Did you go to Series 2 at any stage as either a contestant or
> spectator?
>
> 2. Are you basing this torrent of abuse solely on what you saw in UK
> series 1?
>
> 3. Have you ever competed or been to a RW event?

John Doe

unread,
Oct 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/19/98
to
adam wrote:

> I have done a search on dejanews and altavista for botz, magenta etc.
> and its all gone very quiet.

Interesting you should say that. They never called me back, either, despite
promises. I just hope they're doing something really big in the background.

Grid#2

no...@usa.net

unread,
Oct 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/19/98
to
In article <362AF7...@zetnet.co.uk>,

I am not ignoring anyone. It is bad nettiquette to post a reply to a NG for
every message in the way you are suggesting and, if you read the other posts,
you will find I have usually answered your questions, or replied to your
points.

Satisfied?
(doubtfull, people like you never are unless you are the center of attention)

adam

unread,
Oct 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/19/98
to
so we can take that as a no, yes and no then ?

--

no...@usa.net

unread,
Oct 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/19/98
to
In article <362A68A5...@dataark.demon.co.uk>,

adam <bro...@dataark.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Or by stepping on the backs or poor schmucks who build robots for Mentron,
> > and let hem have Merchandising rights, and restrict them from competitions,
> > etc. they couldn't believe their luck when they found out thee were people
> > willing to do what you have done... In fact, my uncle, a record producer,
> > couldn't beleve it when he found this out. (believe it or not TV and music
> > businesses are closer than you think!)
> >
> > > Also there are very good support services and advice from Mentorn for
> > > competitors by long time industry people who actually make robots for a
> > > living , shock, horror !
>
> > WEll, many of Sorc members include people who have been working at SFX
houses
> > for years, and I myself am doing a degree in robotics at present...
>
> Good for you , but I would watch out for Libel laws.

Nothing I have said can be considered liable. I don't just bang out the first
thing I think off, I consider the best, and legal way to get my point across.
also, I have toned down some of these points, which have been publicly posted
before, and I believe has been ben by Plotonik's lawyers, and Tom gutteridge,
to the best of my knowledge...

> Where are all the
> other supporters of RobotWars events then ? Its been two years now since
> mentorn went public with their plans and no-one else has got an open
> competition together.

ERm, need I mention Robotica again, which Profile shut down... How about
BotBash? BotZ, which, AFAIK, will still be going ahead, but delayed, and run
by different people...

> I also wonder how many SORC members are going to
> get fed up with 30+ phone calls a week and how many would make it part
> of their job description to make house-calls to fix things and help
> people like some of the Mentorn crew did.

Well, if you need that level of help, maybe you should try football. doesn't
take much brains does that...

> I don't consider myself a poor
> schmuck, in fact I take offence at that remark. I made a lot of good
> friends, got a few free meals, chance to play with robots in an arena,
> saw how TV shows were put together, and some people even got to trash a
> hotel room if they lived too far away.

oh, how mature. did the HSE know about this? If they did, I doubt they would
have let such irresponcible and childish people near such an event, let alone
control the bots. [continued below]

> As for Mentorn's rules and regulations I can't remember any part of them
> said that you had to sign and build a robot and join in. i.e. if you
> don't like it then don't play.

I don't, so I didn't.

> In fact they were upfront about this at
> the very first meetings where they said its a TV show first and a
> competition sort of second, it might be different to a Live event but
> you don't have to join in if you don't want to. No-one forced anyone and
> I presume everyone could read. They also said that if it took off then
> they would be able to finance live events and sure enough there are a
> couple planned already.

Erm, it doesn't cost anywhere near as much doing a live event, as doing a
Televised one. in fact, the Live one could have been televised, and a
significant saving thus accrued...

>
> No doubt a few people decided that they would rather sit at home and
> watch the TV and become an expert whilst others now have 2 years
> building experience under their belt.

actually, I was building before you even heard of it...


> I guess if you want to get paid
> for it then you should start up your own FX house or model shop or
> something. The restrictions are only till the shows go out anyway and
> you can fight in any other competition after that, except there are no
> other competitions here at all, none, zip, nada, zilch. You see the
> point here. If you want to make rules and club badges and passes then
> fine, if you want to fight robots then you enter a Mentorn competition.

NO, No, No. If you would just see beyond mentorn, you would see that there
were in fact quite a few events taking place before Profile ever bought th TM
licence off Profile. However, Mentorn will probably try and convinec you that
they have started since Feb.

> I think you'll also that the disclosure entry in the contracts are
> pretty standard with most things to not give the plot away before the
> thing airs. After that people are free to do what they like. Yes , TV
> and Music are close as Profile are a record company.

Actually, I beieve Roadblock was on Blue Peter about 2 months before the
first ep aired, and it was stated on there that they were the chapions of the
series.

>
> > >
> > > So I still don't see your point and probably never will. We make robots
> > > and fight them whatever the arena, whatever the promoter , whatever the
> > > reason. I guess some do and some just talk about it and make clubs and
> > > rules.
> >
> > Well, we have to make the rules different, as a legal attempt to make it
> > differnent from Profiles, and we want the infrastructure in place for the
> > first events. As for the "over-weight" rule alowance of Mentorn, there is an
> > art to building "TO THE WEIGHT". How fair is it when someone has to cut a
> > really good weapon out of the desin because it'll put it over the limit, yet
> > someone else just stays over the limit, and still get allowed to enter? In
> > fact, why have weight limits at all?
>
> What is all the fuss about with this ? Robotwars started with a few
> people getting together and the rules evolved. If the rules are that
> different as well then people are not going to be able to run in either
> events. I think with the Professional backing and sponsorship of Mentorn
> then they will win out, both here and in the States. Even club racing
> with cars and bikes have less rules and infrastructure, what they do
> have though is events and competitors.
> Its the maxim of build it and they will come.
>

unfortunatly, it's the way it has to go, if your "Grandmother", Profile, is
not going to try and shut down another non-them event. WE built, we
organised, we came, they shut us down. In fact, I believe about 20-30 teams
still went and although there was no event, there was still a big
meeting/party/show&tell. Tell me, which clubs? the full SORC GCR is an
International document, designed for use in the US, here, NZ, and anywhere
else. club racing doesn't have to think on that scale. Oh, and actually you'd
be surprised how much there actually is in any kind of Motor sport. If I
hadn't got a MRacing injury 4ish years ago, I never would have turned to
robotics...

> Don't forget that the rules were a lot tighter this year and those that
> were too overweight were out in the superheavy melee on their own. See
> the Limpet's web pages for that one. There was still a little leeway but
> only a small amount this time as there are now plenty of entrants. Come
> next year it will be even tighter and even harder to get in. In fact
> those who have been building a couple of years now have proven
> themselves capable of building and running an entry and are likely to
> get an entry over armchair paper-warriors. If you have to cut out a
> really good weapon to get in the design limit then it isn't exactly a
> good design in the first place then is it. The live events are going to
> be stricter still and more like the original american events.

But still, what's the point of weight limits if you don't stick to them.
180lb's should mean 180, not 180.9 I know it's picky, but it CAN make all the
difference. Also, are you trying to tell me you never try and build to the
limit? there's always gogint o be little things that will add extra weight
which were unforseeable in the design stages ie. a frame may need more weld
or extra strengthening, or the bot ends up unbalenced beyond a medium speed.
Hell, if you really want me to be picky, all battery masses are for
discharged batteries, e- weight can make a difference, believe it or not. or
you might not have a perfectly tuned engine, so you will need more petrol in
it than you planned... That's several ways your bot can end up slightly over
weight. the basics of Good Engineering Design are that the end product had to
do the job it was designed for, but it must also fit the design parameters
(weight, etc...) If you can't do that, go play football, or try some
boxing...

> Rules are meant for changing , just like in war all plans change after
> the the first contact. As for the weight thing , well this year it was
> adhered to. Plus or minus a little bit. And there was probably some
> judicious class picking as well to ensure it wasn't totally unfair.

There should be no "little bit". the classes should be picked at the start,
and the weight limits should be just that - limits, not guidelines. Just like
the plimpsole line on the side of ships is the mass limit of the ship in
different water, not a guideline. If a captain is found over his plimpsole,
he would be arrested, and imprisioned for either "negligence, likely to
indanger human life" or for "breach of Maritime safety Laws", or, very
rarely, "attempted Manslaughter" - all imprisonable offences.

>
> > > I have done a search on dejanews and altavista for botz, magenta etc.
> > > and its all gone very quiet.
> > >
> > BotZ - Mike preston has agreed to let Magenta use the name BotZ for her next
> > event. However, I have not been able to get in contact with her...
> >
>
> Not heard from them at all , although there are some references in
> dejanews to Proweb's Magenta about some parties she ran or something.
>
> I know some people are annoyed they didn't come up with the idea first
> or would want to run their own event and get some of the glory. (no
> vested interest here I hope with you)
>
> Why not put all that aside and just get out and build something and
> bring it along and see how well you can do against some of us.
>
> --
> Alpha Rocket Shop http://www.tinweb.com/rockets/
> Dangerous Machines http://www.tinweb.com/robot/
> Discussion Group http://www.tinweb.com/discus/
> Links Database http://www.tinweb.com/robot/links/
>

Right, well, you want to know about previous robot events, well, one of the
people I am aquanted with, and who has posted here before, has competed, and
helped in RW(US) style events for the last 2 years. You'd be better off asking
him. (Matt, your call). Actually, I just remembered, do you remember in series
1, there was a sequence shown between the master and Thor, which the Master
won.. well that was in the UK, in 96. Bfore Mentorn got involved...

Second, I don't exactly have either the time or money right now to start
building. I am doing a very intensive engineering degree (more intensive that
all my friends medical courses even) and the rest of my spare time, and most
of my money has gone into a new business I've just started with a friend
organising and running conventions, as well as, in my spare time, running
Magic tournaments in Southport (which is a bit of a drive from here too).

In fact, depending if we can get the insurance, and an arena built, we are
thinking of running an event next June, in Derby, hopefully it can be
sanctioned by SORCUK. You ready to put your Bot where your mouth is?
Unfortunatly, I haven't even seen the venue yet, so I don't even know if
there is a place for it... If not for an event, then maybe a show and tell,
but first off all, I'm trying to build a Robot - display, not combat - which
is similar to the ones in WOTW. Anyone got any ideas on how to get a triped
to walk?

Also, please don't mention the vile name of Profile to me again, we (my
family) have had some bad dealings with them in the past. Not to mention the
fact that they screwed over, with Robotica, the people that gave them the
real interest in RW, and with it, the incentive to sell it to Mentorn, thus
bringing you in. Personally, I have been a fan of RW for a good couple of
years.

Oh, an incidental bit of news for you, I seem to remember that Mentorn
offered to pay for a few teams to come over here and compete, or something
like that. As far as I know, only one team took them up on that, and I
believe that was more to do with the fact that they wanted to see the UK...

As for calling you a poor shmuck, I shall elaborate.

Lets see - how much did you spend on your bot? I shall be conservative, and
say £1000 (1000UKP, if the symbol is garbled). How many hours did you spend
on it? I'm talking scrounging for parts, fitting, testing, designing, all of
it? Now think how much it would cost Mentorn to get a SFX house to uild it
for em... think 10% extra on parts cost, think min 100/hr... figure those
costs into your robots construction, and see what kind of price you get. In
fact, everyone, try that. Lets have a small thread called Pro-bot costs,
where we show how mucg it cost us, and how much it would have cost, using
those conservative figures. If you then add those up, you'll soon see why I'm
calling you what I did. The only difference between the two costs is, Mentorn
get to physically keep the Pro one...

Here, I'll start the ball rolling - '97 Nozbot Cost me - 1200 Pro cost
18000 all figures in sterling (UK pounds) Bear in mind my costs are only
parts cost, and it was a heavyweight. Most of that cost is man hours, as it
took me and my father (a mech engineer) about 7-8 months to build.
Unfortuntly, personal problems stopped us from competing in the US as we'd
hoped...

Also, I remember someone saying that Mentorn had been round asking Uni's and
stuff about entrants for '97. However, I had an interview at Reading Uni's
Cybernetics Dept. (the top robotics dept. in the UK) for MEng, this Jan. When
I spoke of RW, the interviewer had heard of the US one, but never even knew
about the UK one... Funny that, isn't it, yet a friend of mine at Camebridge,
then a fresher doing Chem Engineering knew all about her Uni's entry,
strange, eh? Obviously Mentorn didn't want an entry that was too good, and
BTW, Oliver wasn't/isn't in the Dept. of cybernetics, before you ask...

Anyway, enough point making for tonight...


K'Tetch Dureek
http://surf.to/warrior

adam

unread,
Oct 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/20/98
to

> > I also wonder how many SORC members are going to
> > get fed up with 30+ phone calls a week and how many would make it part
> > of their job description to make house-calls to fix things and help
> > people like some of the Mentorn crew did.
>
> Well, if you need that level of help, maybe you should try football. doesn't
> take much brains does that...

Well perhaps not everyone is that smart then, there were a lot of really
good mechanical engineers at the event and it was their first foray into
R/C controlled devices.

> > In fact they were upfront about this at
> > the very first meetings where they said its a TV show first and a
> > competition sort of second, it might be different to a Live event but
> > you don't have to join in if you don't want to. No-one forced anyone and
> > I presume everyone could read. They also said that if it took off then
> > they would be able to finance live events and sure enough there are a
> > couple planned already.
>
> Erm, it doesn't cost anywhere near as much doing a live event, as doing a
> Televised one. in fact, the Live one could have been televised, and a
> significant saving thus accrued...

but that would have made a one off special tv show and then no more,
just like the existing one off shows that ran on discovery etc.



> > No doubt a few people decided that they would rather sit at home and
> > watch the TV and become an expert whilst others now have 2 years
> > building experience under their belt.
>
> actually, I was building before you even heard of it...

I must admit I only heard about it after the very first US event went
out and then was working fulltime so was only able to get out to SF at
the last event. I presume you knew about it before that when marc was
planning it ?


> > I guess if you want to get paid
> > for it then you should start up your own FX house or model shop or
> > something. The restrictions are only till the shows go out anyway and
> > you can fight in any other competition after that, except there are no
> > other competitions here at all, none, zip, nada, zilch. You see the
> > point here. If you want to make rules and club badges and passes then
> > fine, if you want to fight robots then you enter a Mentorn competition.
>
> NO, No, No. If you would just see beyond mentorn, you would see that there
> were in fact quite a few events taking place before Profile ever bought th TM
> licence off Profile. However, Mentorn will probably try and convinec you that
> they have started since Feb.
>
> > I think you'll also that the disclosure entry in the contracts are
> > pretty standard with most things to not give the plot away before the
> > thing airs. After that people are free to do what they like. Yes , TV
> > and Music are close as Profile are a record company.
>
> Actually, I beieve Roadblock was on Blue Peter about 2 months before the
> first ep aired, and it was stated on there that they were the chapions of the
> series.

Nope, just replayed the tape and they didn't say that. Nor on the Big
breakfast , or that sunday live thing they did.


> unfortunatly, it's the way it has to go, if your "Grandmother", Profile, is
> not going to try and shut down another non-them event. WE built, we
> organised, we came, they shut us down. In fact, I believe about 20-30 teams
> still went and although there was no event, there was still a big
> meeting/party/show&tell. Tell me, which clubs? the full SORC GCR is an
> International document, designed for use in the US, here, NZ, and anywhere
> else. club racing doesn't have to think on that scale. Oh, and actually you'd
> be surprised how much there actually is in any kind of Motor sport. If I
> hadn't got a MRacing injury 4ish years ago, I never would have turned to
> robotics...


Well i have done a lot of hill climbing and sprinting and done 3 years
as a mechanic at the IOM TT and the car events still had less rules. How
relevant are the rules with no events ?

Weight limits are best adhered to, we all agree, unless you end up with
no competitors that is. It's a learning thing and as more people get on
board, then picking contestants can become more stringent. If you cant
get a set of scales that can reliably measure discharged batteries on a
79Kg robot and are worried about it then pick 78Kg as your limit. And no
, I don't build to the limit, I build to under it.


> > Rules are meant for changing , just like in war all plans change after
> > the the first contact. As for the weight thing , well this year it was
> > adhered to. Plus or minus a little bit. And there was probably some
> > judicious class picking as well to ensure it wasn't totally unfair.
>
> There should be no "little bit". the classes should be picked at the start,
> and the weight limits should be just that - limits, not guidelines. Just like
> the plimpsole line on the side of ships is the mass limit of the ship in
> different water, not a guideline. If a captain is found over his plimpsole,
> he would be arrested, and imprisioned for either "negligence, likely to
> indanger human life" or for "breach of Maritime safety Laws", or, very
> rarely, "attempted Manslaughter" - all imprisonable offences.


1kg over a weight limit is hardly a capital offence is it. Its a game,
its fun , its about building and then complaining. You'll find that most
people slightly overweight were matched against others of similar
porkitude. There were lighter entries but it was made clear from the go
that heavyweights were going to be the preferred choice of entry. If you
put your own event on you can be the judge of who competes. Just as all
captains aren't slapped in jail or they get a panamanian flag.


> Right, well, you want to know about previous robot events, well, one of the
> people I am aquanted with, and who has posted here before, has competed, and
> helped in RW(US) style events for the last 2 years. You'd be better off asking
> him. (Matt, your call). Actually, I just remembered, do you remember in series
> 1, there was a sequence shown between the master and Thor, which the Master
> won.. well that was in the UK, in 96. Bfore Mentorn got involved...


Ok well if you are basing previous events on that one, who exactly do
you think flew over thor, master and la machine and the crews. Set up
the warehouse, got the cameras and ran some games and gauntlets.

******Oh Oh that was MENTORN ****** So it does look like they were
involved at bringing RW to the UK at an early date, probably up to 6
months before that. In fact quite a few of S1 entrants were in that
warehouse watching it as well.

But we would all love to see details of these other RW(US) style events
held over here. Web sites and pictures would go down a treat. I presume
there must be a hoard of competitors out there.


> In fact, depending if we can get the insurance, and an arena built, we are
> thinking of running an event next June, in Derby, hopefully it can be
> sanctioned by SORCUK. You ready to put your Bot where your mouth is?
> Unfortunatly, I haven't even seen the venue yet, so I don't even know if
> there is a place for it... If not for an event, then maybe a show and tell,
> but first off all, I'm trying to build a Robot - display, not combat - which
> is similar to the ones in WOTW. Anyone got any ideas on how to get a triped
> to walk?


I thought it was so cheap to put on an event ? Of course I'll bring a
couple of robots along. They do the talking for me.


> Oh, an incidental bit of news for you, I seem to remember that Mentorn
> offered to pay for a few teams to come over here and compete, or something
> like that. As far as I know, only one team took them up on that, and I
> believe that was more to do with the fact that they wanted to see the UK...

In fact there was a lot of teams that were ready to come over, just that
there was plenty of quality here in the end.


> As for calling you a poor shmuck, I shall elaborate.
>
> Lets see - how much did you spend on your bot? I shall be conservative, and
> say £1000 (1000UKP, if the symbol is garbled). How many hours did you spend
> on it? I'm talking scrounging for parts, fitting, testing, designing, all of
> it? Now think how much it would cost Mentorn to get a SFX house to uild it
> for em... think 10% extra on parts cost, think min 100/hr... figure those
> costs into your robots construction, and see what kind of price you get. In
> fact, everyone, try that. Lets have a small thread called Pro-bot costs,
> where we show how mucg it cost us, and how much it would have cost, using
> those conservative figures. If you then add those up, you'll soon see why I'm
> calling you what I did. The only difference between the two costs is, Mentorn
> get to physically keep the Pro one...

What the heck are you ranting on about with this one ? You'll find that
a lot of people spent a lot lot lot less than that kind of figure. Are
you saying that it was cheaper to get people to build than a F/X house
would have charged. Of course it would as the cost is zero to the tv
people. If you factor in my time though I can assure you that for just
me being there for both weeks if I had charged you could have bought
killalot and a maltida. At the other end of the scale a lot of
contestants work for a living and don't mind blowing a couple of grand
on a hobby and so what. This years entrants all had seen S1 and knew
what it was all about, some in fact have never seen or heard of the US
events. But the fact is as an entrant you do get to join in , fight ,
compete and enjoy building it and I also get to keep it. It also puts
you in a better position to influence rule changes and keep the pressure
on. So I still in fact take offence at what you are trying to insinuate.

> Here, I'll start the ball rolling - '97 Nozbot Cost me - 1200 Pro cost
> 18000 all figures in sterling (UK pounds) Bear in mind my costs are only
> parts cost, and it was a heavyweight. Most of that cost is man hours, as it
> took me and my father (a mech engineer) about 7-8 months to build.
> Unfortuntly, personal problems stopped us from competing in the US as we'd
> hoped...

Cool, post some pictures up so we can look out for it in future events.
So you would rather have this nigh on £2,000 robot sitting around
gathering dust than get along to an event and use it just so that
mentorn can't film it. Pretty pointless.


> Also, I remember someone saying that Mentorn had been round asking Uni's and
> stuff about entrants for '97. However, I had an interview at Reading Uni's
> Cybernetics Dept. (the top robotics dept. in the UK) for MEng, this Jan. When
> I spoke of RW, the interviewer had heard of the US one, but never even knew
> about the UK one... Funny that, isn't it, yet a friend of mine at Camebridge,
> then a fresher doing Chem Engineering knew all about her Uni's entry,
> strange, eh? Obviously Mentorn didn't want an entry that was too good, and
> BTW, Oliver wasn't/isn't in the Dept. of cybernetics, before you ask...
> Anyway, enough point making for tonight...

Well Kevin seemed to know plenty about it, courtesy of Oliver no doubt.
Perhaps Cambridge are more knowledgeable about things. UEL certainly
knew about it and they seem to do alright in the robotics events. If
they are the primo-college then how come they didn't know about it ?
There was enough advertising for entrants in trade journals, engineering
shows, modelling shows etc. etc. Or are you saying that the 40+ private
entrants in the first series were more switched on than the college ?
Then again, radio controlled armoured cars aren't exactly robots at the
end of the day , unless you classify them as tele-operated devices.

I still think you have a way to go yet to prove any points though.

no...@usa.net

unread,
Oct 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/20/98
to
In article <362B9147...@dataark.demon.co.uk>,

adam <bro...@dataark.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> so we can take that as a no, yes and no then ?
>

You can take it as follows 1) I was all over the country at the time of the
filming, trying to est up a business, which may even give you some proper
events to comptete in. Anyway, even if I was abe to have gone, I guess I may
well have been thrown out for either laughing loudly at the competitors, the
events (or hopps they made you jump through) or at the other members of the
audiance when I find out that that was what they though RobotWars really was.
That's not good for filming, you know. As for entering, to enter, you have to
sign that contract. I wouldn't sign that contract if it was my only chance to
live.

2) well, I could go by what I've heard, such as Mentorn leaving a flame pit
on 5 mins after a the round finished, with a Bot still in it. Telling the
owner, "you can't go out there, it's not safe". course it wouldn't be, until
you turn the flame off. (BTW, it should take about a second for someone to
turn the flames off, HSE rules...) However, Until that's released (if it will
be allowed to - we'll see about that though on the 30th) I will use the
official info available to me - Series 1. Using anything else just isn't
safe.

3) I have said about that. Personal problems stopped me from competing at the
last moment.


Now, that may make me a No, Yes No. but strictly speaking, you are a Yes No,
No. I belive someone said they were told from the start it was first and
foremost television. That means it wasn't an event, it was a program.

I think Mentorn has you over a barrel. You see, you are not really in any
position to demand, or even ask for something. The allure of TV means that
they can put up an advert or two, if that, and get thousands of people who
would build for them. I'd wager that that is what first motivated you.
However, I have no such need. I hve had plenty of chances to get, not just
onto TV, but into films too. anyone here know of a film they were going to
make called Legionaires? I could have had a part in that if I had wanted. Or
there's a SF film, filming next year which I had the oppourtunity of a part
in. I have the producer/director/co-creator, and his assistants, home address
here. I would have taken them up on it, but I am going to be busy in Derby at
the time when filming is taking place. Still, maybe next time...

Oh, maybe the person responsible for the title of the thread should learn some
manners.

K'Tetch Dureek
aka Andrew Norton

> no...@usa.net wrote:
> >
> > In article <362AF7...@zetnet.co.uk>,
> > ju...@zetnet.co.uk wrote:
> > > Are you Ignoring me?
> > >
> > > > Nozza,
> > > >
> > > > 1. Did you go to Series 2 at any stage as either a contestant or
> > > > spectator?
> > > >
> > > > 2. Are you basing this torrent of abuse solely on what you saw in UK
> > > > series 1?
> > > >
> > > > 3. Have you ever competed or been to a RW event?
> > > >

adam

unread,
Oct 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/20/98
to

Strictly speaking or any other way you want to speak its still No, Yes,
No. You cant say that strictly speaking you actually went to S2 when you
weren't there !


All I can say is that I wish you good luck in your ventures and hope
that you can still attract people to come along when you are so eager to
laugh and deride the competitors. Hopefully SORC US or UK wont take this
kind of attitude to existing competitors whatever event they competed
in.



> I think Mentorn has you over a barrel. You see, you are not really in any
> position to demand, or even ask for something. The allure of TV means that
> they can put up an advert or two, if that, and get thousands of people who
> would build for them. I'd wager that that is what first motivated you.
> However, I have no such need. I hve had plenty of chances to get, not just
> onto TV, but into films too. anyone here know of a film they were going to
> make called Legionaires? I could have had a part in that if I had wanted. Or
> there's a SF film, filming next year which I had the oppourtunity of a part
> in. I have the producer/director/co-creator, and his assistants, home address
> here. I would have taken them up on it, but I am going to be busy in Derby at
> the time when filming is taking place. Still, maybe next time...
>
> Oh, maybe the person responsible for the title of the thread should learn some
> manners.

No-one has anyone over a barrel. If people chose to make excuses and
watch the telly they can , if they want to build a robot then they can
as well. Please don't make assumptions about what motivates me either as
you'll lose your bet. Just how shallow do you think all the competitors
are in series 1 and 2 that you so easily dismiss. There were no adverts
or promises of being on TV, in fact when it first started the series had
not been sold to a specific TV station at all. If the footage wasn't
good enough then it wouldn't have made it for BBC2 either. Glad to hear
that you could have had a part in a film that didn't get made ?

Jon Witte

unread,
Oct 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/20/98
to
adam <bro...@dataark.demon.co.uk> wrote:
This is getting tedious...

I titled this thread as I did because they were points you had
continually skirted around, and you'd posted to this NG a couple of
times since it appeared without replying. Sorry for the bad manners,
but I had to get your attention somehow.

I guess we'll just go on being Mentorn's lackeys, meeting interesting
people, drinking free beer, living in a free Hotel and fighting other
robots at a well organized event. You, on the other hand can sit alone
with your rusting bot, smug in the knowledge that you are right and
we're wrong.

Have a nice life.

Jon Witte
RobotWars... Sorry, MentornLackyFights Stuff at...
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/prickly/rw.htm

no...@usa.net

unread,
Oct 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/21/98
to
In article <362CD954...@dataark.demon.co.uk>,

I ddn't change any of my answers, I just made an exact answer to each of the
questions, again. Oh, I could have gone to S2, but the thing is I DIDN'T WANT
TO.

>
> All I can say is that I wish you good luck in your ventures and hope
> that you can still attract people to come along when you are so eager to
> laugh and deride the competitors. Hopefully SORC US or UK wont take this
> kind of attitude to existing competitors whatever event they competed
> in.

ERm, As I have put on most of my previous posts, all he views expressed here
are mine, and I don't speak for no-one else, unless they ask me to.

Legionairs? I didn't much like the plot. Sounded too much like B5. Also, I
believe there was a discussion on the topic of what motivated people to enter.
Surprise surprise, the TV element kept comming up. There were event people
involved from S1 and S2. probably you missed it...

Also, according to you, Mentorn did S1 in a completely different order to the
way every other production company does their TV. It's no good doing a
series, if you can't get it picked up by any station? It would turn out to be
a complete waste of money, especially the £20-30k figure I have heard
floating around for the cost of each of the house bots. SFX designers and
builders arn't cheap with labour coss you know... No capany, no matter what
the size, would make such an investment without it being picked up.
Especially as the chanel has to approve the format of the shows (eg NBC
dissaproved of the first Trek pilot, but [unusually] funded a second pilot).
Then, there's your restrictions. C4 and ITV would let you have sponcers
logo's on your bot, which the Beeb won't allow (blanket ban). You would need
to know this at the start, as sponcers generally want to promote themselves.
Thus either Tom (or whoever made the order decision) is either increadibly
lucky, or skilful. I know which one I'm favouring... Either that, or whoever
told you this was lying (assuming you aren't). More costs come when you
think about the arena. building an arena isn't cheap. Neither is transporting
it. As S1 was open to a public audiance, the Arena HAD to be thourghly
inspected by HSE. for this sort of inspection, they charge, and it isn't
cheap.

Mind you, just look at the money they've already raked in from the "fans". I
have been told that aprox 200,000 people rang the RW hotline and asked for a
"pack". Let's be cautious, and say 5% pay the £10. Of that, 40 get chosen,
and the money refunded. that still about £100,000 in (£99,600 to be exact.)
out of that, subtract 3k for printing etc. Add profits from the
merchandising, and you can see that they're only in it for the money. did you
know that they are considering selling the format to NZ for £1/4M? They
couldn't care about you, your bot, etc. as long as it doesn't harm its profit
margins. Now, this is the last time I'm going to mention SORC. Sorc has no
profits - it is a regestered non-profit making organisation. It isn't going
to charge for the rules, and give you it back if you win the "lottery" and
get picked to enter. In fact, I believe that the SORC fees are ging to serve
the same function as they do in other sports. (eg Motor Racing - Racing
licence, Dancing, Dancing Federation licence reg and licence etc)

If you compete in UKRW, fine. do so, I don't care. However, don't go around
saying that you have taken part in RobotWars - you said it yourself, it is
entertanment first, then a contest. In fact, you are actually more like the
wrestling analagy I made a few days ago. ie, just cos your a big time
wrestler, don't mean squat when it comes to a proper fight.


Oh, and the reason iwon't compete in Mentorns effort at all is two-fold.
1) I'm not going to pay £10, on the chance I MAY get chosen to compete.

2) The next bot I build will surpass yours, and anyone elses entries in S3
(assuming there is one!). Before you start foaming at the mouth, and saying
I'm bias against Mentorn's entrants, let me say I am not. It's just that to
build an autonomous bot, rather than a remote controled one, like yours,
takes a lot of skill, precision, as I also have to program it to think for
itself, as well as build it. I may well rig it so, if necesary, it can be
remotly controlled too, but it depends on available space.

Mentorn hired any experts on ALGOL, or autonomous detection systems etc. yet?
Ot wouldn't autobots be "entertaining enough" for them? After all, there were
auto's in RW97, as well as 96 (I think). In fact, I may even try and build
two, identical except the programming, where I will leave one of them to
learn what to do from first principles (ie learning to move etc)... If I can
get the learning al's done...

However, I can tell you that Mentorn will not have an auto class for quite a
few years as, whilst it is the most exciting in many ways for competitors, it
makes poor entertainment for the masses.

NOTE
These are my words, unless shown quoted as being from someone else. okay?

adam

unread,
Oct 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/21/98
to

no...@usa.net wrote:
>>In fact, what you competed in was not so much Robot Wars, but Robot TOYS. As I
>>have said, I don't think any of them would stand up against any of the US bot,
>>in fact, I'll go so far as to say I doubt they'd eben get past the safety
>>inspection, and weigh-in at any event where the rules (proper rules, not
>>Mentorn's 4 page version - We're talking 30 pages of tried, tested and SAFE
>>rules.)


I hasten to add that the Mentorn rules were based on the US rules and
these
SORC rules still have not been used in combat yet.


>>> And your first robot was, naturally, perfect with no room for
>>> improvement.

>Oh, I wouldn't say that. However, I did put more that the day it obviously
>took to make that thing. Admit it, you could have made that in less than a
>day, couldn't you? I know I could!


Come on, we want to see some pictures of this heavyweight you built. I
presume
by now you realise that Pscyho-sprout was pretty well put together.
Certainly not
paper as you imagined and an ingenious mechanism to keep the R/C Vehicle
inside on track. Scarab might have looked like cheese on toast but it
worked and it was there.

>How about, at the start of an F1 race, they get them to jump over a couple of
>double-decker buses? It's basically the same as the current RWUK thing...
>Can you see my point now?

How about at the start of a race the drivers have to sprint to their
cars, oops, that's Le Mans.
How about a decathlon ?


>> What Mentorn has filmed IS NOT ROBOTWARS. That is basically what I've been
>>trying to get across to you.

It is according to their site, literature and the last 2 events they
held.

We are still wanting to know about these events not sponsored by Mentorn
that have been running in this country.
And , once more ........

>>Here, I'll start the ball rolling - '97 Nozbot Cost me - 1200 Pro cost
>>18000 all figures in sterling (UK pounds) Bear in mind my costs are only
>>parts cost, and it was a heavyweight. Most of that cost is man hours, as it
>>took me and my father (a mech engineer) about 7-8 months to build.
>>Unfortuntly, personal problems stopped us from competing in the US as we'd
>>hoped...

Where are any pictures or details ? All I find on your site is people
dressing up in fancy dress.

So please to establish some credibility after you put down all the
contestants including scarab and Pscyhosprout and lets see what your one
looked like. Please no work commitments, strictly speaking it doesn't
exist anymore or any other reason. You've done a pretty good job
reckoning that SORC is superior and will run all these European events
and world events so I think its fair if we ask this question. I presume
that you aren't speaking on behalf of SORC with all this either ?

adam

unread,
Oct 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/21/98
to
> Strictly speaking or any other way you want to speak its still No, Yes,
> No. You cant say that strictly speaking you actually went to S2 when you
> weren't there !

>I ddn't change any of my answers, I just made an exact answer to each of the
>questions, again. Oh, I could have gone to S2, but the thing is I DIDN'T WANT
>TO.

Look whether or not you wanted to or not or whether or not you had work
commitments the plain answer is that you were not at either RobotWars
event. Anything you are basing your decisions on must be hearsay and
opinion then. It's not about changing your answers, its about stating
the facts.

> Also, according to you, Mentorn did S1 in a completely different order to the
> way every other production company does their TV. It's no good doing a
> series, if you can't get it picked up by any station? It would turn out to be
> a complete waste of money, especially the £20-30k figure I have heard
> floating around for the cost of each of the house bots. SFX designers and
> builders arn't cheap with labour coss you know... No capany, no matter what
> the size, would make such an investment without it being picked up.
> Especially as the chanel has to approve the format of the shows (eg NBC
> dissaproved of the first Trek pilot, but [unusually] funded a second pilot).
> Then, there's your restrictions. C4 and ITV would let you have sponcers
> logo's on your bot, which the Beeb won't allow (blanket ban). You would need
> to know this at the start, as sponcers generally want to promote themselves.
> Thus either Tom (or whoever made the order decision) is either increadibly
> lucky, or skilful. I know which one I'm favouring... Either that, or whoever
> told you this was lying (assuming you aren't). More costs come when you
> think about the arena. building an arena isn't cheap. Neither is transporting
> it. As S1 was open to a public audiance, the Arena HAD to be thourghly
> inspected by HSE. for this sort of inspection, they charge, and it isn't
> cheap.

helllooooooo, they did a pilot , then they hawked it around, got
accepted by the BBC , then they went ahead and made the shows and the
crunch still came if there was not enough good footage. manage to work
that one out yet ?

So what were they doing flying the 1996 US people in then before the
show was accepted or the pilot was made ?
Speculation its called. I think you will find that a lot of companies
have pilots that never get taken up.
Remember the UK '96 event , the one you reckoned that Mentorn had no
involvement with or do you selectively forget your errors.

20-30 K per house robot !! Are you really sure about this then. Divide
it by 10 and you are nearer the mark.


> Thus either Tom (or whoever made the order decision) is either increadibly
> lucky, or skilful. I know which one I'm favouring... Either that, or whoever
> told you this was lying (assuming you aren't). More costs come when you
> think about the arena. building an arena isn't cheap. Neither is transporting

You are also skating on some very thin ice here, are you calling me a
liar , or are you calling mentorn liars.
Please indicate which one.

I also assume your sweeping statements about us being poor schmucks and
being stupid to agree to the contract conditions still apply.



> Mind you, just look at the money they've already raked in from the "fans". I
> have been told that aprox 200,000 people rang the RW hotline and asked for a
> "pack". Let's be cautious, and say 5% pay the £10. Of that, 40 get chosen,
> and the money refunded. that still about £100,000 in (£99,600 to be exact.)
> out of that, subtract 3k for printing etc. Add profits from the
> merchandising, and you can see that they're only in it for the money. did you
> know that they are considering selling the format to NZ for £1/4M? They
> couldn't care about you, your bot, etc. as long as it doesn't harm its profit
> margins. Now, this is the last time I'm going to mention SORC. Sorc has no
> profits - it is a regestered non-profit making organisation. It isn't going
> to charge for the rules, and give you it back if you win the "lottery" and
> get picked to enter. In fact, I believe that the SORC fees are ging to serve
> the same function as they do in other sports. (eg Motor Racing - Racing
> licence, Dancing, Dancing Federation licence reg and licence etc)

Helloooooo, lets say your 5% is way off base, I thought it was more
around 3,000 got the pack. 40 entrants as well ? Oh I forget you had no
involvement with S2 or S1 at all so you don't know how many people were
in it. Well wait for S2 as you'll find a few more than 40. In fact it
doesn't take a lot of math to work that one out.

Which with the video, mag , postage ,and enamel badge doesn't leave much
change out of a tenner. And the administration and office staff of
course. I think you'll also find that its not only just NZ but about a
dozen other places as well.

I don't want to exactly burst your bubble here, but that is generally
how business is run.

Are you jealous of their success ?

Also why would I give you money for SORC fees, I would want to see an
event schedule first.

You seem to suggest in previous posts that

"WE could well be doing some events on behalf of SORCUK. I
may well compete, but then, events don't run themselves, and, with a
degree
in Robotics, I doubt I would have an easy job at such an event..."

"Well, we have to make the rules different, as a legal attempt to make
it
different from Profiles, and we want the infrastructure in place for the
first events. "

I presume you have some association with SORC then.



> If you compete in UKRW, fine. do so, I don't care. However, don't go around
> saying that you have taken part in RobotWars - you said it yourself, it is
> entertanment first, then a contest. In fact, you are actually more like the
> wrestling analagy I made a few days ago. ie, just cos your a big time
> wrestler, don't mean squat when it comes to a proper fight.

Sorry , but that's the only RobotWars event around and like it or not I
have competed in two and strictly speaking you haven't at all. So what
does that make me then if I am going around saying that I have taken
part in RobotWars. I use it as part of my portfolio and to attract
further sponsorship for other robots I am building. A have also told a
lot of my clients that I have competed in RobotWars, are you now saying
that I havent.
Anway, myself and a lot of other people can quite honestly say that they
have taken part in RobotWars.

Also why do you think that sports are televised then, really believe
that F1 would be as big as it is without people being entertained
watching it ?

Also can you run by me again the RobotWars events you have been in?

> Oh, and the reason iwon't compete in Mentorns effort at all is two-fold.
> 1) I'm not going to pay £10, on the chance I MAY get chosen to compete.

I thought you had a robot , where is it ? The chance of being picked is
very high if you can actually build one. Much higher than your imaginary
40 figure you seem to have invented.



> 2) The next bot I build will surpass yours, and anyone elses entries in S3
> (assuming there is one!). Before you start foaming at the mouth, and saying
> I'm bias against Mentorn's entrants, let me say I am not. It's just that to
> build an autonomous bot, rather than a remote controled one, like yours,
> takes a lot of skill, precision, as I also have to program it to think for
> itself, as well as build it. I may well rig it so, if necesary, it can be
> remotly controlled too, but it depends on available space.

So what happened to the last one then, where has that gone all of a
sudden ?

It sounds pretty hollow if you are not going to bring it to the live
event or S3 then to show us all how its done.


> Mentorn hired any experts on ALGOL, or autonomous detection systems etc. yet?
> Ot wouldn't autobots be "entertaining enough" for them? After all, there were
> auto's in RW97, as well as 96 (I think). In fact, I may even try and build
> two, identical except the programming, where I will leave one of them to
> learn what to do from first principles (ie learning to move etc)... If I can
> get the learning al's done...


Helllloooo ??? what the hell would they want to hire ALGOL experts for
!! Mentorn put on events , shows and robotwars competitions. I am sure
if you managed to do what you are saying you would find they would make
an event for you.

> However, I can tell you that Mentorn will not have an auto class for quite a
> few years as, whilst it is the most exciting in many ways for competitors, it
> makes poor entertainment for the masses.

Read dull.

And for heavens sake get yourself a spell checker.


Don't waste your time replying unless
a) you have details of your Robot to share with everyone
b) see above.

JUPO

unread,
Oct 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/21/98
to
> 2) The next bot I build will surpass yours, and anyone elses entries in S3
> (assuming there is one!).

That is an incredebly arrogant statement from someone who hasn't even
seen any series 2 machines yet.

> build an autonomous bot, rather than a remote controled one, like yours,
> takes a lot of skill, precision, as I also have to program it to think for
> itself, as well as build it. I may well rig it so, if necesary, it can be
> remotly controlled too, but it depends on available space.

It dosen't take a vast ammount of skill - just the same ammount of a
different skill. I dare say there's folks around who could knock up an
autonomous bot in a week, but wouldn't have the first clue how to
fibreglass a 3 foot sphere...

> Mentorn hired any experts on ALGOL, or autonomous detection systems etc. yet?

Of course not, but that doesn't make them bad people! There's other ways
to learn rather than have the organisers do *everything* for you.

> In fact, I may even try and build
> two, identical except the programming, where I will leave one of them to
> learn what to do from first principles (ie learning to move etc)... If I can
> get the learning al's done...

Good! Now you're talking sense in this NG, with constructive
robot-orientated comments. I'd love to find an auto. contest to fight
in, "Pain" was originally intended as such. What are you planning on
using as the brain / sensors?

> I can tell you that Mentorn will not have an auto class for quite a
> few years as, whilst it is the most exciting in many ways for competitors, it
> makes poor entertainment for the masses.

Can you? I hadn't heard anything from Mentorn about that, what's your
source?


Jon Witte

no...@usa.net

unread,
Oct 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/21/98
to
In article <362D96...@zetnet.co.uk>,
ju...@zetnet.co.uk wrote:


Right fine, have it your own way - you are god above all else in the world of
RobotWars and, indeed, the whole world of mechanoids. If fact, why arn't you
working for the Army, or the MOD, or soething like that? The amount of
experiance and knowledge you say you have, surely would mean you could be head
of a major research project.

The figures were, again, publicly posted by Tom, so that's what I'm basing my
figures on. Also, the fact that I had the pack priced, and it doesn't come to
anywhere near to £10. In fact, it only takes £3 to do that badge, the most
expensive componant of the pack.

As for the cost of the house bots, They were priced by SFX guys in the
states, after seeing the video of the series. Their actual estimate was about
$25k. I toned it down a bit, as they were using SF labour costs, to about 0.6
of that value. again, I ask you, how many man-hours do you think was spent in
total on each of those bots? easy a hundred. at 100 - 150 £/hr, that £10-15k
there, just in labout. Then add parts costs. that's the same reason car
repairs are so expensive, about 20%, if that, is actual parts, the rest is
labour charges. I think that you also have to be a bit more precise making a
bot, than repairing a Nissan, n'est pas?

Oh, as for the question, "What are you basing your statement on how long it
would be before an auto class", I would say it is pretty obvious to work out,
if you know business, and you read what you and others have written. Going by
what has been said, a lot of people needed help with an ordinary bot, never
mind an auto one...

AS for Sorc, I said "we" as in the fact that "we" all read the rules, and
made coments to try and improve it. I am not an "officer" of SORC. I also
said "we" in the 2:30am, knackered context, after dropping Dwight Shultz off
at Manchester Airport.

As for your comment about F1, all I can say is, look for the pit-times at
Monnaco next year. Whoops, I forgot, they don't have them, because the owner
of the track (ie Monnaco's authorities) won't let them drill, and, to be
onnest, the only person the pit-times are for are the TV fans. F1 will go on
in its current forn here, even if they stop televising it here. In fact, I
seem to remember having to "watch" an F1 race on the teletext, as there was
not coverage of it...

If you want to say you're robo-master, that's fine by me... After all, I'm
just an idiotic little simpleton, who knew about RW probably before you did
(That's not a definate), who is not afraid to go against the big companies
and put his time, effort, and money where my mouth is, in order to provide an
event with better, more competitve rules, and terms, which are more in spirit
with what RW was designed and concieved as. (which, if I remember, was Mark
bashing up stuff with an RC vac...). However, if you want to delude yourself
as to RW was, and is, that's fine by me. BTW, how well did your bot do at the
combat sections of "The Great Gameshow"? "

Anyone can go with the croud, but it takes something special to to try and go
against it"
Someone famous...

K'Tetch, etc.

My Words are the ones above. I speak for no-one but myself, if when using the
Royal "we", unless otherwise stated.


> > 2) The next bot I build will surpass yours, and anyone elses entries in S3
> > (assuming there is one!).
>

> That is an incredebly arrogant statement from someone who hasn't even
> seen any series 2 machines yet.
>

> > build an autonomous bot, rather than a remote controled one, like yours,
> > takes a lot of skill, precision, as I also have to program it to think for
> > itself, as well as build it. I may well rig it so, if necesary, it can be
> > remotly controlled too, but it depends on available space.
>

> It dosen't take a vast ammount of skill - just the same ammount of a
> different skill. I dare say there's folks around who could knock up an
> autonomous bot in a week, but wouldn't have the first clue how to
> fibreglass a 3 foot sphere...
>

> > Mentorn hired any experts on ALGOL, or autonomous detection systems etc.
yet?
>

> Of course not, but that doesn't make them bad people! There's other ways
> to learn rather than have the organisers do *everything* for you.
>

> > In fact, I may even try and build
> > two, identical except the programming, where I will leave one of them to
> > learn what to do from first principles (ie learning to move etc)... If I can
> > get the learning al's done...
>

> Good! Now you're talking sense in this NG, with constructive
> robot-orientated comments. I'd love to find an auto. contest to fight
> in, "Pain" was originally intended as such. What are you planning on
> using as the brain / sensors?
>

> > I can tell you that Mentorn will not have an auto class for quite a
> > few years as, whilst it is the most exciting in many ways for competitors,
it
> > makes poor entertainment for the masses.
>

> Can you? I hadn't heard anything from Mentorn about that, what's your
> source?
>
> Jon Witte
>

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------

no...@usa.net

unread,
Oct 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/21/98
to
In article <362D2482...@dataark.demon.co.uk>,

adam <bro...@dataark.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> no...@usa.net wrote:
> >>In fact, what you competed in was not so much Robot Wars, but Robot TOYS. As
I
> >>have said, I don't think any of them would stand up against any of the US
bot,
> >>in fact, I'll go so far as to say I doubt they'd eben get past the safety
> >>inspection, and weigh-in at any event where the rules (proper rules, not
> >>Mentorn's 4 page version - We're talking 30 pages of tried, tested and SAFE
> >>rules.)
>
> I hasten to add that the Mentorn rules were based on the US rules and
> these
> SORC rules still have not been used in combat yet.
>
Like no flames? how about no fiber? Damn, actually, wait, they were in RWUK...

> >>> And your first robot was, naturally, perfect with no room for
> >>> improvement.
> >Oh, I wouldn't say that. However, I did put more that the day it obviously
> >took to make that thing. Admit it, you could have made that in less than a
> >day, couldn't you? I know I could!
>
> Come on, we want to see some pictures of this heavyweight you built. I
> presume
> by now you realise that Pscyho-sprout was pretty well put together.
> Certainly not
> paper as you imagined and an ingenious mechanism to keep the R/C Vehicle
> inside on track. Scarab might have looked like cheese on toast but it
> worked and it was there.


>
> >How about, at the start of an F1 race, they get them to jump over a couple of
> >double-decker buses? It's basically the same as the current RWUK thing...
> >Can you see my point now?
> How about at the start of a race the drivers have to sprint to their
> cars, oops, that's Le Mans.
> How about a decathlon ?

No, what I was saying is that as well as the proper event (the combat), there
is also a section before designed purrely for entertainment (Gauntlett and
guest event)

>
> >> What Mentorn has filmed IS NOT ROBOTWARS. That is basically what I've been
> >>trying to get across to you.
> It is according to their site, literature and the last 2 events they
> held.
>

Really? RW has no fire, a plain, uniform surface, no fibre allowed - funny,
but arn't thay all contrary to what RWUK has? In fact, do you know WHY these
rules are there? Not for safety reasons (there is that too) but also for the
fact that if it was allowed, resulting bots would end up as small,
domeshaped, and made out of something like a high-temp rubber. It was done
that way to promote creative design.


> We are still wanting to know about these events not sponsored by Mentorn
> that have been running in this country.
> And , once more ........
>
> >>Here, I'll start the ball rolling - '97 Nozbot Cost me - 1200 Pro cost
> >>18000 all figures in sterling (UK pounds) Bear in mind my costs are only
> >>parts cost, and it was a heavyweight. Most of that cost is man hours, as it
> >>took me and my father (a mech engineer) about 7-8 months to build.
> >>Unfortuntly, personal problems stopped us from competing in the US as we'd
> >>hoped...
>
> Where are any pictures or details ? All I find on your site is people
> dressing up in fancy dress.

Ah, but that is because, at the moment, Trek cons are my main business. There
are several sites I still have under construction. As for pics of my bot, as
soon as I find them, and get the site finished, I'll put them up.

>
> So please to establish some credibility after you put down all the
> contestants including scarab and Pscyhosprout and lets see what your one
> looked like. Please no work commitments, strictly speaking it doesn't
> exist anymore or any other reason. You've done a pretty good job
> reckoning that SORC is superior and will run all these European events
> and world events so I think its fair if we ask this question. I presume
> that you aren't speaking on behalf of SORC with all this either ?

I'm speaking for SORC in all this in the same capacity that you all have for
Mentron, or hadn't you realised it works both ways?


Me, My mords, I said em. I speak for me and me alone


K't

adam

unread,
Oct 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/21/98
to

no...@usa.net wrote:
>
> In article <362D2482...@dataark.demon.co.uk>,
> adam <bro...@dataark.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > no...@usa.net wrote:
> > >>In fact, what you competed in was not so much Robot Wars, but Robot TOYS. As
> I
> > >>have said, I don't think any of them would stand up against any of the US
> bot,
> > >>in fact, I'll go so far as to say I doubt they'd eben get past the safety
> > >>inspection, and weigh-in at any event where the rules (proper rules, not
> > >>Mentorn's 4 page version - We're talking 30 pages of tried, tested and SAFE
> > >>rules.)
> >
> > I hasten to add that the Mentorn rules were based on the US rules and
> > these
> > SORC rules still have not been used in combat yet.
> >
> Like no flames? how about no fiber? Damn, actually, wait, they were in RWUK...


Fibre was in the rules, rather their exclusion wasn't. But seeing as you
don't appear to pay much attention then you wouldn't have known that.
Perhaps if you had competed in any of the RobotWars events you would
have noticed.

What do you base your statement on that you think none of them would get
past the weigh-in or safety inspection then , or do you not choose to
answer any questions.......



> > >>> And your first robot was, naturally, perfect with no room for
> > >>> improvement.
> > >Oh, I wouldn't say that. However, I did put more that the day it obviously
> > >took to make that thing. Admit it, you could have made that in less than a
> > >day, couldn't you? I know I could!
> >
> > Come on, we want to see some pictures of this heavyweight you built. I
> > presume
> > by now you realise that Pscyho-sprout was pretty well put together.
> > Certainly not
> > paper as you imagined and an ingenious mechanism to keep the R/C Vehicle
> > inside on track. Scarab might have looked like cheese on toast but it
> > worked and it was there.
>
> >
> > >How about, at the start of an F1 race, they get them to jump over a couple of
> > >double-decker buses? It's basically the same as the current RWUK thing...
> > >Can you see my point now?
> > How about at the start of a race the drivers have to sprint to their
> > cars, oops, that's Le Mans.
> > How about a decathlon ?
>
> No, what I was saying is that as well as the proper event (the combat), there
> is also a section before designed purrely for entertainment (Gauntlett and
> guest event)


How about it makes it more challenging for people to design something
other than a high speed wedge ?

What proper event are you going on about ? The proper event in the UK is
the RobotWars put on by Mentorn or TV21.

No doubt you will be able to prove to us all next year that there is no
skill involved at getting through the gauntlet or the trials.

Where are the PICTURES.



> > >> What Mentorn has filmed IS NOT ROBOTWARS. That is basically what I've been
> > >>trying to get across to you.
> > It is according to their site, literature and the last 2 events they
> > held.
>
> Really? RW has no fire, a plain, uniform surface, no fibre allowed - funny,
> but arn't thay all contrary to what RWUK has? In fact, do you know WHY these
> rules are there? Not for safety reasons (there is that too) but also for the
> fact that if it was allowed, resulting bots would end up as small,
> domeshaped, and made out of something like a high-temp rubber. It was done
> that way to promote creative design.


If you had been at either of the series or competed in RobotWars which
you haven't. Then you would have seen that the flames were mainly
cosmetic. I say mainly as although the flames were basically propane
flaming off although some people got a bit burnt. S1 it was a bit of a
surprise but everyone knew it was there for S2. Of course I know why the
rules are the way they are, and that's the way they were for the
contestants, but then you have not competed have you.

Where does it say that RW has to have a plain uniform surface ? Not in
the last two RobotWars events and there were over 4 million people who
saw it.


> > We are still wanting to know about these events not sponsored by Mentorn
> > that have been running in this country.
> > And , once more ........
> >
> > >>Here, I'll start the ball rolling - '97 Nozbot Cost me - 1200 Pro cost
> > >>18000 all figures in sterling (UK pounds) Bear in mind my costs are only
> > >>parts cost, and it was a heavyweight. Most of that cost is man hours, as it
> > >>took me and my father (a mech engineer) about 7-8 months to build.
> > >>Unfortuntly, personal problems stopped us from competing in the US as we'd
> > >>hoped...
> >
> > Where are any pictures or details ? All I find on your site is people
> > dressing up in fancy dress.
>
> Ah, but that is because, at the moment, Trek cons are my main business. There
> are several sites I still have under construction. As for pics of my bot, as
> soon as I find them, and get the site finished, I'll put them up.

Ah, so there are no pictures on the web site then. Perhaps you would
like to detail or describe the construction then. We are all waiting for
it. Why do you have to find pictures of the robot, surely you can just
take another picture of it ? Or has it been taken apart now ?

We want the details on NOZBOT.

I suggest that you stick to the Trek thing and leave the RobotWars to
others.


> > So please to establish some credibility after you put down all the
> > contestants including scarab and Pscyhosprout and lets see what your one
> > looked like. Please no work commitments, strictly speaking it doesn't
> > exist anymore or any other reason. You've done a pretty good job
> > reckoning that SORC is superior and will run all these European events
> > and world events so I think its fair if we ask this question. I presume
> > that you aren't speaking on behalf of SORC with all this either ?
>
> I'm speaking for SORC in all this in the same capacity that you all have for
> Mentron, or hadn't you realised it works both ways?
>
> Me, My mords, I said em. I speak for me and me alone

So you are speaking on behalf of SORC then as I have only been telling
you our experiences.

I have merely been putting to you the details that someone who had
competed in either of the UK RobotWars event would have known.
There is a difference but you are hell bent on ignoring them.

For example when I pointed out to you that the event in 96 you spoke of
was put on by Mentorn , that is a fact , that is not me speaking on
their behalf.

When you say their rules are rubbish , I tell you they were the same as
the american ones, that is a fact not me speaking on behalf of mentorn.

I can go on but I don't know if it would actually sink in at any point.

You are trying to ram down our throats your opinions and badly spelt
conspiracy theories all the while trying to imply that I have been
misguided for competing in an event . I really need a retraction from
you on this last point and others i have raised as well.

Jon Witte

unread,
Oct 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/22/98
to
>Right fine, have it your own way - you are god above all else in the world of
>RobotWars and, indeed, the whole world of mechanoids.

What! When did *I* say this! You are the one who can build a better
'bot than anyone in the entire UK, despite never having competed /
been to an event in your life!

> If fact, why arn't you
>working for the Army, or the MOD, or soething like that? The amount of
>experiance and knowledge you say you have, surely would mean you could be head
>of a major research project.

Funny you should say that...

>The figures were, again, publicly posted by Tom, so that's what I'm basing my
>figures on.

<snip>


>. I think that you also have to be a bit more precise making a
>bot, than repairing a Nissan, n'est pas?

Your point is?

>Oh, as for the question, "What are you basing your statement on how long it
>would be before an auto class", I would say it is pretty obvious to work out,
>if you know business, and you read what you and others have written. Going by
>what has been said, a lot of people needed help with an ordinary bot, never
>mind an auto one...

On those grounds, going on what I know about business and what I've
read - the Mentorn version of RW are the only events we'll be seeing
in the UK for some time.

>If you want to say you're robo-master, that's fine by me...

Again, just checked all my posts - I *never* claimed to be an expert,
unlike some people...

> who is not afraid to go against the big companies
>and put his time, effort, and money where my mouth is, in order to provide an
>event with better, more competitve rules, and terms, which are more in spirit
>with what RW was designed and concieved as.

Great. Like we've said - we don't give a toss about who runs it, we
just want to fight! I'd try and run one myself if I had the time &
money.

> BTW, how well did your bot do at the combat sections of "The Great Gameshow?"

I'm sure that question wasn't spontaneous! I've never hidden the fact
we were crap - it's been on the URL below since it happened. Still,
we've learnt from our mistakes and will be back ASAP for another go.
BTW, if you've never fought your bot, how do you know it's not going
to have the same problems we had?

>Really? RW has no fire, a plain, uniform surface, no fibre allowed - funny,
>but arn't thay all contrary to what RWUK has? In fact, do you know WHY these
>rules are there? Not for safety reasons (there is that too) but also for the
>fact that if it was allowed, resulting bots would end up as small,
>domeshaped, and made out of something like a high-temp rubber. It was done
>that way to promote creative design.

The fire (apart from the pit fiasco) does nothing, Flames can't be
more than a couple of hundred degrees.

What's this "Fibre" rule? construction or entanglement?

Uniform surface? Rules evolve, they're not set in concrete and adds
another dimension for the operators to consider.

Creative Design? Like psycho sprout, maybe? Or maybe you don't like
the idea of choosing machines with interesting means of attack over a
plain wedge?

>Anyone can go with the croud, but it takes something special to to try and go
>against it

Those who can, do. Those who can't just spout off about it.

(Someone else famous - probably)

adam

unread,
Oct 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/22/98
to

22nd October 1998 DAY 1 - no robot pictures or details

the count begins.

adam

unread,
Oct 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/23/98
to
1998 DAY 2 - no robot pictures or details

the count continues.

Steve Turnbull's Robots

unread,
Oct 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/24/98
to
In message <362D96...@zetnet.co.uk>
JUPO <ju...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Nozza said

>
> > I can tell you that Mentorn will not have an auto class for quite a
> > few years as, whilst it is the most exciting in many ways for
> > competitors, it makes poor entertainment for the masses.
>
> Can you? I hadn't heard anything from Mentorn about that, what's your
> source?

In fact I do know what Mentorn's view on auto robots are since I
have discussed it with the production team at some length.

While Nozza is right in one respect his conclusions are completely
wrong.

no...@usa.net

unread,
Oct 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/24/98
to
In article <362e7083...@news.zetnet.co.uk>,
jon....@zetnet.co.uk (Jon Witte) wrote:

> <snip>
> funny you should mention that...
Mention what? Now, try answering that without looking back at previous posts,
and you'll see what kind of problems I have with this NG - see below

> <snip>


> >. I think that you also have to be a bit more precise making a
> >bot, than repairing a Nissan, n'est pas?
>

> Your point is?

Well, If you had not just cut off the previous sentence, I could maybe tell
you. DejaNews is not particularly good at keeping messages...

>
> >Oh, as for the question, "What are you basing your statement on how long it
> >would be before an auto class", I would say it is pretty obvious to work out,
> >if you know business, and you read what you and others have written. Going by
> >what has been said, a lot of people needed help with an ordinary bot, never
> >mind an auto one...
>

> On those grounds, going on what I know about business and what I've
> read - the Mentorn version of RW are the only events we'll be seeing
> in the UK for some time.

Somehow I doubt that. there is a good possibility (Ie about 75%) of an event,
run by SORCUK within the next nine months, or so.

> >If you want to say you're robo-master, that's fine by me...
>

> Again, just checked all my posts - I *never* claimed to be an expert,
> unlike some people...

Really, AFter all, you have claimed that by competitng in events, you know all
there is to be known about robotics.


>
> > who is not afraid to go against the big companies
> >and put his time, effort, and money where my mouth is, in order to provide an
> >event with better, more competitve rules, and terms, which are more in spirit
> >with what RW was designed and concieved as.
>

> Great. Like we've said - we don't give a toss about who runs it, we
> just want to fight! I'd try and run one myself if I had the time &
> money.
>

> > BTW, how well did your bot do at the combat sections of "The Great

Gameshow?"
>
> I'm sure that question wasn't spontaneous! I've never hidden the fact
> we were crap - it's been on the URL below since it happened. Still,
> we've learnt from our mistakes and will be back ASAP for another go.
> BTW, if you've never fought your bot, how do you know it's not going
> to have the same problems we had?
>

If only I'd had time to actually go and look at it. Also, I don't read ahead
on any program, if it can be helped. EG I had to do a load of work on First
Contact, before it came out, and the same wih Generations (the last two trek
films). Therefore I had to read the entire plots, and, in FC's case, a copy
of the script. However, I want to be able to amuse myself fully watching the
episodes. Hell, if I had wanted to know what happened, I would have asked
Craig what happened.

> >Really? RW has no fire, a plain, uniform surface, no fibre allowed - funny,
> >but arn't thay all contrary to what RWUK has? In fact, do you know WHY these
> >rules are there? Not for safety reasons (there is that too) but also for the
> >fact that if it was allowed, resulting bots would end up as small,
> >domeshaped, and made out of something like a high-temp rubber. It was done
> >that way to promote creative design.
>
> The fire (apart from the pit fiasco) does nothing, Flames can't be
> more than a couple of hundred degrees.
>

Actually, it depends on the fuel/fuel combination. some flames can be as cool
as 80-90 degrees C, others can be 1200. Therefore, I take it 12=couple for
you. I'd hate to see your wedding photo's then (assuming you are married),
and try and pick out "the happy couple", or is it that you are just ignorant
of chemistry?

> What's this "Fibre" rule? construction or entanglement?

Well, fiber for entanglement is in the RW rules, construction is illegal (UK
Law) where fire/flame is present, due to the potentially toxic nature of the
smoke. (Inof courtesy of a friend at the HSE)


>
> Uniform surface? Rules evolve, they're not set in concrete and adds
> another dimension for the operators to consider.

Except, they were evolved by people who's only intrest in RW is money, and who
didn't have any first-hand experiance in RW. Also, there has been some
discussion on that topic too, with the result being there may be "off-road"
competitions taking place in roughly 2-3 years. using, at first, off road RC
tracks, if I remember right.


>
> Creative Design? Like psycho sprout, maybe? Or maybe you don't like
> the idea of choosing machines with interesting means of attack over a
> plain wedge?
>

It's means of attack would be??? Make the bot's controler die laughing, as the
woefully inadiquate motor (ie RC car) tries to propell the sphere over bots?

> >Anyone can go with the croud, but it takes something special to to try and go
> >against it
>

> Those who can, do. Those who can't just spout off about it.

Oh, and Robotica (know what that was?) was an event that was to have been
SORC's first practise functioning as a cohearent group, doing things like
Safety work etc. However, it was closed down by the same people who gave
Mentorn the licewnce to do such an event, just cos no-one would go to the
Fort Mason, and compete under Mentorn's rules... (at least, I think it was
Mentorn, Profile being legally unable to hold an event this year...) Oh yeh,
and the reason Profile gave for shutting it down? Basicly because there was
no entry fee, and they were worried that they wouldn't be able to get away
with charging an entry fee, and making MONEY. See what Profile/Mentorn all
boil down to? Readies. SORC (speaking as a party heavily intereseted in it)
is a non-profit making organisation, unlike those you have been dealing with.

>
> (Someone else famous - probably)


>
> Jon Witte
> RobotWars Stuff at...
> http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/prickly/rw.htm
>


K'

My words, I said them on behalf on nobody, cos they're min, Mine I tel's 'ya!

adam

unread,
Oct 25, 1998, 2:00:00 AM10/25/98
to

no...@usa.net wrote:
> > <snip>
> > funny you should mention that...
> Mention what? Now, try answering that without looking back at previous posts,
> and you'll see what kind of problems I have with this NG - see below
>
> > <snip>
> > >. I think that you also have to be a bit more precise making a
> > >bot, than repairing a Nissan, n'est pas?
> >
> > Your point is?
>
> Well, If you had not just cut off the previous sentence, I could maybe tell
> you. DejaNews is not particularly good at keeping messages...
>

Well, seeing as you are using netscape 4 which has a pretty good
newsreader built right into it that kind of statement is a bit strange.
Or are you trying to obfuscate your real identity. Otherwise try your
dial-up accounts News server, I am pretty sure that u-net.net has one if
you can't deja-news to work.

Or try :-
http://www.dejanews.com/profile.xp?author=no...@usa.net&ST=PS


Now all you need to do is show us pictures of your Robot, still waiting
you know.


> Somehow I doubt that. there is a good possibility (Ie about 75%) of an event,
> run by SORCUK within the next nine months, or so.

S'funny I did not even think SORC was putting on events in the US let
alone in the UK.
Who represents SORC in the UK then.
Unless of course you are going to host one at "Avalon 1999 - A Star Trek
Convention in the UK, June'99 http://come.to/avalon1999/ "
Now don't get me wrong but would this be behind the tirade against
Mentorn, TV21, Profile et al. You put them down in a publicly
accessible forum and try and undermine the way they run things and then
hope to steer the contestants (even though you are slagging us all off)
towards another event that you will be putting on ? It seems to me that
nine months from now co-incides with the event your company is putting
on. I'm only asking as I want to know what angle, if any you have on all
this.


>Except, they were evolved by people who's only intrest in RW is money, and who
>didn't have any first-hand experiance in RW. Also, there has been some
>discussion on that topic too, with the result being there may be "off-road"
> competitions taking place in roughly 2-3 years. using, at first, off road RC
>tracks, if I remember right.

No-one else seems to have got off their arse and done anything. As for
the "off-road" thing that happens to be mine. As does the ant weights
but seeing as you have stated you don't have the time to go and look at
robotwars related sites then you wouldn't know. Which brings us back to
why the heck are you giving us all your wisdom, especially as you have
not even shown us a picture of your machine.

>Oh, and Robotica (know what that was?) was an event that was to have been
>SORC's first practise functioning as a cohearent group, doing things like
>Safety work etc. However, it was closed down by the same people who gave
> Mentorn the licewnce to do such an event, just cos no-one would go to the
>Fort Mason, and compete under Mentorn's rules... (at least, I think it was
>Mentorn, Profile being legally unable to hold an event this year...) Oh yeh,
>and the reason Profile gave for shutting it down? Basicly because there was
>no entry fee, and they were worried that they wouldn't be able to get away
>with charging an entry fee, and making MONEY. See what Profile/Mentorn all
>boil down to? Readies. SORC (speaking as a party heavily intereseted in it)
>is a non-profit making organisation, unlike those you have been dealing with.
>

Well all I can say is your legal advice must be better than theirs. I
wouldn't want to be picking any fights with the UK legal eagles.

Jon Witte

unread,
Oct 25, 1998, 2:00:00 AM10/25/98
to
Excuse the large tracts of quotes, everyone - but Nozza said....

>Mention what? Now, try answering that without looking back at previous posts,
>and you'll see what kind of problems I have with this NG - see below

...and... (Show us your Robot)

>Well, If you had not just cut off the previous sentence, I could maybe tell
>you. DejaNews is not particularly good at keeping messages...

... this leads me to believe you can't remember what you wrote a few
days ago. However... (Show us your Robot)

>> >If you want to say you're robo-master, that's fine by me...
>>
>> Again, just checked all my posts - I *never* claimed to be an expert,
>> unlike some people...
>
>Really, AFter all, you have claimed that by competitng in events, you know all
>there is to be known about robotics.

Suggests that you have flawless recall or everything I've said over
the past couple of weeks! You can't have it both ways...
Anyhow, moving along...(Show us your Robot)

>If only I'd had time to actually go and look at it. Also, I don't read ahead
>on any program, if it can be helped. EG I had to do a load of work on First
>Contact, before it came out, and the same wih Generations (the last two trek
>films). Therefore I had to read the entire plots, and, in FC's case, a copy
>of the script.

There aren't many unemployed robot builders out there. We all seem to
manage .(Show us your Robot)

> However, I want to be able to amuse myself fully watching the
>episodes.

Assuming you have the time...(Show us your Robot)

>Hell, if I had wanted to know what happened, I would have asked
>Craig what happened.

Personal mate of yours is he? (Show us your Robot)

>Actually, it depends on the fuel/fuel combination. some flames can be as cool
>as 80-90 degrees C, others can be 1200. Therefore, I take it 12=couple for
>you. I'd hate to see your wedding photo's then (assuming you are married)

I am, thanks. (Show us your Robot)

>and try and pick out "the happy couple", or is it that you are just ignorant
>of chemistry?

If I started taking all of your posts literally, I'd be here all
day.(Show us your Robot)
Unless you're made of red & black polka dot fur, the butane flame on
Sgt Bash is not going to be in the same place for long enough to cause
anything more than a bit of a heat rash,(Show us your Robot) It's
range is toss as the flame just arcs upwards (Due to physics, BTW)

>Except, they were evolved by people who's only intrest in RW is money, and who
>didn't have any first-hand experiance in RW.

Other than running three events, now. I *think* that's 3 more than
SORC UK.. (Show us your Robot)

> Also, there has been some
>discussion on that topic too, with the result being there may be "off-road"
>competitions taking place in roughly 2-3 years. using, at first, off road RC
>tracks, if I remember right.

So, Sounds fun. I'm up for it. (Show us your Robot)

>> Creative Design? Like psycho sprout, maybe?