Jewish Ritual Murder
Mark Van Alstine
In article <352a6499...@news.supernews.com>,
nation...@hotmail.com wrote:
> This is obvious, but I wanted to post it as a warning. The jews,
> especially the talmudic ones , crave the blood of christians. They are
> truly evil!
More rabid anti-Semitica from "nationalist88." Practically right out of
Streicher's _Der Stu"rmer_.
See:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/german/der-stuermer
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/s/streicher.julius
[snip]
Mark
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line seperating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but right through every human heart--and all human hearts."
-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lenny
This is obvious, but I wanted to post it as a warning. The jews,
especially the talmudic ones , crave the blood of christians. They are
truly evil!
CHICAGO, 1955
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Jewish community in Chicago, one of the wealthiest in the world, has
always exercised an extremely powerful degree of behind the scenes
influence in the Windy City, an influence just as pervasive and powerful
(if not more so) as that of the Italian organized crime syndicates, all the
more sinister for being far less visible.
In October of 1955 four White children, two young boys who were brothers
and two teenaged sisters, were abducted and murdered in a manner which was
suggestive of Jewish ritual sacrifice, the liturgical object of which is to
obtain Gentile blood to mix with the matzoh used in several esoteric Jewish
religious ceremonies such as Purim, Passover, and Kol Nidre at Yom Kippur.
These were the Schuessler boys and the Grimes girls. Both cases remain
officially unsolved despite hundreds of man-hours of investigation by the
Chicago police. The Grimes case in fact featured on an episode of UNSOLVED
MYSTERIES several years ago, but the show produced no further leads.
The cases shared certain characterstics in common. Both the boys, aged six
and eight respectively, and the girls aged thirteen and fifteen were found
nude, and yet none had been sexually assaulted. According to the
pathologists' reports they had been kept alive for some time after they
were reported missing, although the unusually cold weather in which the
bodies were exposed impeded fixing an exact time of death. The corpses
showed ligature marks on the wrists and ankles, indicating that they had
been tied or restrained. All the victims had been tortured with mostly
small, shallow cuts and puncture wounds, none sufficient to cause death of
itself. The official cause of death was listed as blood loss and shock due
to blood loss and exposure; the childrens' bodies were "drained of blood".
Further peculiarities were observed in the PATTERN of the torture. The two
female victims had been tormented by repeated puncture wounds on the upper
torso, thighs and buttocks, suggesting a sadistic sexual element in the
killers' motivations, but the two young male victims had been transfixed
through the hands, wrists, and feet by larger weapons similar to nails or a
carpenter's awl, inflicting wounds very similar to the so-called stigmata,
the wounds of Christ.
What is interesting about these cases is not the unsolved murders
themselves, but the view which for once we are given of the lengths to
which the Jews will go to cover up suspected ritual murder cases. In view
of the intense public interest in the case there was of course a lot of
media reporting. The Chicago Daily News published an afternoon edition
detailing the ritualistic nature of the wounds inflicted on the Schuessler
boys, comparing it to an earlier case wherein a boy named Peterson had been
found dead with the same kind of wounds, and speculating that members of a
"religious cult" might be involved. Within ten minutes of the edition
hitting the street, trucks were sent out to bring them all in; all copies
were ripped off the newstands and taken back to the News building where
they were burned.
Eight copies of this issue were obtained by a woman named Mrs. Lyle Clark
Van Hyning who published a conservative journal called Women's Voice. When
she called the Daily News office to ask why the paper had been recalled she
was told that there had been "complaints" about it and it was likely to
cause "racial unrest". Mrs. Van Hyning had her own suspicions and sent the
father of the two murdered boys, Arnold Schuessler, a copy of Arnold
Leese's definitive work JEWISH RITUAL MURDER.
Schuessler read the booklet and was stunned by what he learned. He then
made the mistake of going to the police and demanding that the possible
ritual murder angle in his sons' death be investigated. The Cook County
Sheriff of the time was a Jew named Sam Lohman, and he immediately placed
Mr. Schuessler under arrest on suspicion of killing his own children. A
Jewish deputy named Horowitz was sent to the Schuessler home with a party
of men; having ransacked the house looking for "evidence" Horowitz then
placed Mrs. Schusssler and her family under virtual house arrest,
forbidding them to leave the house or speak with anyone on the phone lest
they "spread rumors about the Jews."
Arnold Schuessler took a lie detector test which completely cleared him, as
well as proving that he had an ironclad alibi for the murders. Instead of
releasing him, the authorities committed Arnold Schuessler to a private
mental institution in Des Plaines, Illinois operated by a Dr. Leon
Steinfeld. Mr. Schuessler was rushed right into electroshock treatment,
where he died the same afternoon he arrived at the "sanitarium".
There was sufficient public outcry over the bereaved father's strange death
so that a public inquest into Schuessler's case was held and Dr. Steinfeld
forced to testify. He stated that Arnold Schuessler was suffering from
"hallucinations" and "paranoid delusions" that "certain people were out to
get him." In 1955 there were still a few honest public officials left, one
of them being the Cook County Coroner, a crusty old Irishman named Dr.
Thomas McCarron who was also a qualified psychiatrist. McCarron knew Dr.
Steinfeld of old. During World War Two, Steinfeld had been prosecuted for
giving Jewish boys facing the draft callup various legal and illegal drugs
which would give them heart fibrillations, fill their lungs with liquid to
simulate tuberculosis, give them noxious skin conditions, etc. so they
could avoid military service. Steinfeld allegedly collected $2000 per head
for each Yiddish Mama's Little Bubbeleh he spared from having to go face
the Nazis' cold steel and hot lead. [As an aside, what do you want to bet
every one of these draft-dodging kikes now has some old Swastika banner he
bought from a real vet hanging on his wall, along with a caseful of phony
medals? - HC]
Dr. McCarron called Steinfeld a liar and a charlatan and turned all the
documents in the case over to the district attorney, recommending that
Steinfeld be prosecuted for perjury and murder. He also denounced Steinfeld
to the newspapers and publicly stated his view that Arnold Schuessler had
been murdered. In response he received an official order from the district
attorney to make no more public comment on the case. Several nights later,
to emphasize the serious nature of the warning, a small bomb blew the front
door off McCarron's house.
But there was at least some belated justice. Several days after the inquest
closed, Leon Steinfeld fled the country. He flew to Switzerland for a "rest
cure" and one morning was found hanging in his hotel room, an alleged
suicide. Jewish newspaper columnist Irv Kupcinet established a "sympathy
fund" and shortly thereafter presented Arnold Schuessler's widow, the
mother of the murdered children, with $100,000 raised from Chicago's Jewish
community---an immense sum of money in 1955-56, worth easily a couple of
million today, and a very strange gesture for Jews to make to a Gentile
crime victim, a German at that, unless it was to buy silence.
There may have been one final murder connected with this ghastly case.
British author Arnold Leese was provided with massive amounts of news
clippings and information, including a transcript of the inquest, by his
correspondents in Chicago, and he was at work on a definitive account of
the Schuessler case as one of the best documented incidents of Jewish
ritual murder in modern times when he suddenly died in the spring of 1956.
None of the Schuessler papers, which he had been working on and which he
showed to a number of friends and visitors, were found anywhere in his
possession when his effects were inventoried after his death. The last
loose end was tied up.
One looks at those sad little faces on the milk cartons today, and one
can't help but wonder...
Scott McAdam
ZOG wrote in message ...
>On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 06:30:00 GMT, dmitry pruss <pr...@helix.nih.guv> wrote:
>>Like I've been saying for the last 4 years, kill the kikes.
>
>Give it a try. You goose-stepping morons will get your asses kicked like
>you did last time. Faster and more thoroughly, since you will not have
>the advantage of surprise this time. Oh, and that's MISTER Kike to the
>likes of you, numb-nuts.
>
>In the meantime, WE will be dealing with your kind in synagogues all
>over the world in observance of the yearly Passover Blood Rituals
>very soon now. I wouldn't call it ritual "murder," though. That
>is a word that only applies to true humans. In your case it is more
>like "Ritual Disinfecting."
What did I miss? Why was this posted in rec.arts.disney.parks? Maybe you
gentlemen could remove the disney parks bit when you reply??
Scott
R
Jonathan I. Kamens wrote:
>
> I just subscribed to soc.culture.jewish after a long absence to post a
> query about something. I'd forgotten how entertaining it could be, in
> a sad sort of way.
>
> *plonk*
You found this thread "entertaining"?!?
Joseph Hertzlinger
"It just may be a loooonatic you're looking for." --- Billy Joel
Rob Pjilatus
Jonathan I. Kamens <j...@kamens.brookline.ma.us> wrote in article
<6g99b6$4gi$5...@jik.shore.net>...
> I just subscribed to soc.culture.jewish after a long absence to post a
> query about something. I'd forgotten how entertaining it could be, in
> a sad sort of way.
>
> *plonk*
*titty fuck*
Rob Pjilatus
Michel Couzijn <couzijn@/remove-this/ilo.uva.nl> wrote in article
<35282a81...@news.xs4all.nl>...
> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 03:51:57 +0000, Eli Sheleen <k...@wolfcity.wy.org>
> wrote:
>
> >May I kindly ask you not to whine about postings that do not meet
> >your apparently lofty standards? Please just decline to download
> >postings that you do not want to read.
>
> In the first place you *could* consider adhering to netiquette
> standards for Usenet (which are not the same as *my* lofty standards,
> thank you).
>
> In the second place, people with an above-average IQ are aware that
> one needs to download and read a particular posting in order to check
> whether it was worth downloading in the first place.
>
> In the third place, your branding of my polite request as 'whining'
> tells me to not set my expectations too high about the rationality of
> any response you may give.
You should have included your comments which provoked the remark
of Sheleen. Not to say Sheleen is right or wrong, but it's clear
you were the one who deleted the context of Sheleen's comments,
not the other way around.
Rob Pjilatus
WFF <w...@dot.com> wrote in article
<6g9ibi$6...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>...
> In article <35282a81...@news.xs4all.nl>,
couzijn@/remove-this/ilo.uva.nl (Michel Couzijn) wrote:
> >On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 03:51:57 +0000, Eli Sheleen <k...@wolfcity.wy.org>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>May I kindly ask you not to whine about postings that do not meet
> >>your apparently lofty standards? Please just decline to download
> >>postings that you do not want to read.
>
> >In the second place, people with an above-average IQ are aware that
> >one needs to download and read a particular posting in order to check
> >whether it was worth downloading in the first place.
>
> >Michel Couzijn
> >Amsterdam, The Netherlands
>
> That takes an above average IQ???? GEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZ .... guess, it
depends
> from where on da "Bell Curve" you are looking at it from!!!! DUMBASS!!!!!
> WFF
It takes an above average IQ for a Dutchman. The same IQ is below
average every where else in the world.
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare
USENET is garbage. Fuck reality.
On 6 Apr 1998 12:04:17 GMT, "Rob Pjilatus" <sti...@ice.ice.baby>
wrote:
>
>
>Michel Couzijn <couzijn@/remove-this/ilo.uva.nl> wrote in article
><35282a81...@news.xs4all.nl>...
>> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 03:51:57 +0000, Eli Sheleen <k...@wolfcity.wy.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >May I kindly ask you not to whine about postings that do not meet
>> >your apparently lofty standards? Please just decline to download
>> >postings that you do not want to read.
>>
>> In the first place you *could* consider adhering to netiquette
>> standards for Usenet (which are not the same as *my* lofty standards,
>> thank you).
>>
>> In the second place, people with an above-average IQ are aware that
>> one needs to download and read a particular posting in order to check
>> whether it was worth downloading in the first place.
>>
>> In the third place, your branding of my polite request as 'whining'
>> tells me to not set my expectations too high about the rationality of
>> any response you may give.
>
>You should have included your comments which provoked the remark
>of Sheleen. Not to say Sheleen is right or wrong, but it's clear
>you were the one who deleted the context of Sheleen's comments,
>not the other way around.
Jihad 666 @ anus.com "The devil is no man
Free humanity from deception And no man's friend"
Knowledge uber alles! - Lt. Jack Sharp
<http://www.anus.com/metal/> metal music
<http://www.kcuf.org/> metal radio
<http://www.sodomy.org/> sodomy
<http://www.blackplague/holocaust/> xian86
"One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a
statistic." - Joseph Stalin
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare
On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 15:46:15 GMT, Commodore/UPPER half/1st Virginia
Volunteers/Cesium
Brigade=*mhm_16_x_3*=@alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk_NUKE_FRANCE_AND_THOSE_CUNTS_IN_BELGIUM
(Rocky) wrote:
>"Rob Pjilatus" <sti...@ice.ice.baby> wrote:
>
>+>
>+>
>+>Jonathan I. Kamens <j...@kamens.brookline.ma.us> wrote in article
>+><6g99b6$4gi$5...@jik.shore.net>...
>+>> I just subscribed to soc.culture.jewish after a long absence to post a
>+>> query about something. I'd forgotten how entertaining it could be, in
>+>> a sad sort of way.
>+>>
>+>> *plonk*
>+>
>+>*titty fuck*
>
>TITTY FUCK
SQUIP AND SLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE
Scott McAdam
Richard G. Philllips wrote in message <352701...@earthlink.net>...
>Joseph Hertzlinger wrote:
>>
>> Richard G. Philllips wrote:
>>
>> > Am I to take it, then, that those four children are somehow less dead
>> > for this reason.
>>
>> You are to take it that those four children are either imaginary or
>> dead from some other cause.
>
>======================================================
>Phillips
>
>Back off, friend. I'll take it the way I choose to take it. There would
>appear to be certain facts in this case that can neither be laughed
>away, ridiculed away. Whether or not they are palatable to you is
>immaterial.
>===========================================================
How about removing rec.arts.disney.parks from your replies? Thanks.
Scott
Alan Hecht
My impression is that this thread is based on the piece about Jewish
ritual murder in chicago that Mr. Covington periodically reposts. If I
recall, he claims that his account draws from the book _Getting away with
murder_, about a number of unsolved murders mostly in the chicago area. In
one sense he is right: the book discusses murders that took place in 1957
or so to the people he mentions. But the book itself makes no mention of
anyone believing it to be "Jewish ritual murder," and only one reference
to the murders possibly being ritualistic in any way. I know Covington
would probably say this is because the authors fear the Jewish Conspiracy,
but the fact remains that Covington woulds have had to have gotten his
information on the alleged jewish angle the old-fashioned way: by making
it up. Or by relying on sources he fails for some reason to mention.
In any case, anyone onsidering whether to believe this story or not should
check Mr. Covington's sources, or lack thereof.
Also, it is disingenuous for Mr Phillips to compare allegations of Jewish
ritual murder with proven instances of Mexican santeria-related ritual
murders. No one is saying that these murders are central to being Mexican,
or even central to santeria. On the other hand, Mr. Phillips and others
are saying that this alleged practise is central to the Jewish religion.
That is quite a different thing, yes?
"Richard G. Philllips" (rgp...@earthlink.net) writes:
> Poul A. Costinsky wrote:
>>
>> Richard G. Philllips(rgp...@earthlink.net) wrote
>> in article <352706...@earthlink.net>
>> |YOur imputations on the credibility of the article rest on your asertion
>> |that the blood libel has been so often "disproved."
>>
>> Not only. It rests on fact that article starts of
>> obvious lies, that Jews use matzoh on Purim, Passover and Yom-Kippur.
>> Do you recognize this is a lie?
>>
>> |Tell me exactly when and how it was "disproved."
>>
>> Zillions times long before we both were born.
>> In court, it was disproved last time I'm aware of,
>> at beginning of this century, in Kiev, Ukraine, at
>> Beilis trial - parallel to Dreifus trial. Juries,
>> all simple Uranians, despite pressure form Tzar
>> secret service, had guts to state, that this is
>> bullshit.
>
> ======================================
> PHillips
>
> You are referring to the Beiliss trial in 1913 which resulted in
> acquittal. Thus it was th decision of that court that, no, Beiliss was
> not guilty of ritual murder. does this prove that ritual murder never
> did or never does happen. Hardly; no more than an isolated acquittal of
> a charge of murder by gunshot proves that murder by gunshot never has
> and never does take place.
> ================================
>>
>> But, one don't need jury, or multi-page tractates,
>> to disprove this bullshit. In previous posting, I gave
>> you plenty of facts, each of whom is enough. If you
>> have a Bible nearby, open it: it's written in old Testament,
>> that Jews are forbidden to murder; to eat blood;
>> it gives exact recipe of matzoh. Is this enough to
>> disprove?
>
> =============================
> Phillips
>
> No, it is not. The Bible, the Sermon on the Mount, and the Ten
> commandments are chock full of exhortations: "Thou shalt not kill." All
> this notwithstanding, we've been doing it since recorded history.
> =============================
>>
>> If you need a literature on subject, you can take a look
>> in your library.
> ==========================
> PHillips
>
> Libraries have thousands and thousands of book. Do you have a particular
> one in mind.
> ========================================================================
>>
>> But you know what? I'm not going to prove one more time
>> in all these centuries that Jews don't do it. If you are
>> able to believe this crap, nothing could probably convince you.
>> Just don't tell anybody about your this perversion - you
>> can finish in mental institution.
>
> ==============================================
> Phillips
>
> It is interesting that you should warn me about that, because it is very
> possible to end up in a mental institution when you hold beliefs that
> Authority finds inconvenient. This was common practice in Stalin's
> Russia and one hears disturbing evidence that Clinton is beginning to
> latch on the idea.
> ===============================================
>>
>> |You ask me: can I really believe that such things are possible in the
>> |20th century, our modern, enlightened 20th century. Well, for a century
>> |that gave us Stalin and Mao-Tse-tung, I don't see ritual murder as being
>> |any great problem. Moreover there are believed to have been cases of
>> |this throughout the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries.
>>
>> So you refuse to give unequivocal answer.
>> QED.
>
> ============================================================
> Phillips
>
> You (or someone) posed the question: How is it possible to believe in a
> thing like ritual murder in this enlightened 20th century we have the
> good fortune to live in. By citing Stalin asnd Mao I was doing nothing
> more than pointing that our present century is perhaps not as
> enlightened as we like to think it is.
> ===================================================================
>>
>> |The belief in the factuality of Jewish ritual murder is something deeply
>> |ingrained in the consciousness of Western man - has been for many
>> |centuries.
>>
>> As a belief in vampires, snake oil, flat Earth and evil 13th.
>> So far for your logic.
>
> ========================================================
> Phillips
>
> I said that the notion has been deeply ingrained in Western
> consciousness for several centuries. I did not say it was necessarily
> right. As for vampires, the evidence for their existece is at least as
> good as that for the existence of Napoleon Bonaparte.
> ===================================================================
>>
>> |Now you may say: well, they are only superstitious peasants. What can
>> |you expect? I would sasy that, superstitious peasants or no, the belief
>> |had to come from something, had to have some basis in experience.
>>
>> No, I say: antisemithes, sometimes well educated.
>> The roots of irrational antisemithism are also well investigated.
>> Take a look in library under "A" and "J".
> ========================================
> Phillips
>
> Whatever has possessed you of the notion that anti-Semitism is
> irrational?
> ==============================================================
>>
>> |I would further direct your attention to some highly suggestive
>> |circumstances.
>>
>> You're quoting from article which starts from outright lie,
>> that Jews use matzoh on Purim, Passover and Yom-Kippur.
>> For article of this kind, I don't take as facts anything he
>> claims. But, let's assume for the moment, they're valid.
>
> ========================================
> Phillips
>
> I don't give a damn what the Jews eat or what they don't eat. Stick to
> the point.
> ==================================================================
>>
>> |(1) That all those newspapers were removed from the street within
>> |minutes of their appearing. WHO has the power to make a thing like that
>> |happen?
>>
>> Probable reason: editor realised afterwards, that his newspaper
>> published this old ugly lie again. To preserve credibility of
>> the newspapers, it was the best thing to do. The same would do
>> editor of "Times", if he'd find article that president of US is
>> green alien landed on UFO, and dirty niggers (sorry) are his
>> servants.
>
> ================================
> Phillips
>
> No. It was NOT a probable reason because the people who decide what does
> and does not get printed do not make snap judgements; rather, they weigh
> matters very carefully. Those papers were pulled off the street for one
> reason and one reason only: Some very serious threats were made that had
> to be taken seriously.
> ========================================
>>
>> |(2) That when the bereaved father took his story to the Sheriff (who
>> |just happened to be Jewish) the sheriff acted in a very strange way. He
>> |railroaded the father into a mental institution. what was it he was so
>> |determined to hide.
>>
>> Very good decision. If to Sheriff comes a horrored father of murdered
>> child with this kind of wild theories, it's a mercy to try to help him
>> in his unstable mental state.
>
> =================================================
> Phillips
>
> "Unstable mental state," my left ass. Mister, you're talking through
> your asshole. The fact is that THE CHILDREN HAD BEEN MURDERED. When a
> law officer is handed a thing like that, his job is to investigate it -
> not to assess the mental state of a bereaved, reporting parent. Is that
> the way you would like our law-enforcement system to run: that you dare
> not report the murder of a loved one because the desk sergeant may deem
> you to be "unstable."
> =========================================================
>
>>
>> |(3) Then there was that $100,000 paid to the family. Where I come from,
>> |that's called hush money. It's a lot of money today and it was a lot
>> |more in 1955. Obviously somebody was very determined to keep something
>> |under wraps., who was it and why?
>>
>> It's very far from obvious. It could be for any reason, starting
>> from charity and mercy to poor family. If Jews did this, they can be
>> only praised that, despite this horrible old lies coming from the family,
>> they were pity to their state.
>
> ==============================================
> Phillips
>
> Are you seriously attempting to tell me that a group of wealthy Jews are
> going to get together a very substantial sum and pay it to the parents
> of the victim of a murder that they (the Jews) had nothing to do with.
> This is obvious rubbish for two reasons:
>
> (1) The world just does not run that way
> (2) to have made that payment would be an open confession that they (the
> payers) DID have something to do with the murders.
> ======================================
>>
>>
--
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
-Anatole France
Fabrice Mjorvan
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare <jiha...@anus.com> wrote in
article <35293a1a....@news.loop.com>...
>
> USENET is garbage. Fuck reality.
Garbage is a rock combo. I would fuck the chick who sings for them, even
if she had a garlic aroma that could level Tacoma.
> On 6 Apr 1998 12:04:17 GMT, "Rob Pjilatus" <sti...@ice.ice.baby>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Michel Couzijn <couzijn@/remove-this/ilo.uva.nl> wrote in article
> ><35282a81...@news.xs4all.nl>...
> >> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 03:51:57 +0000, Eli Sheleen <k...@wolfcity.wy.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >May I kindly ask you not to whine about postings that do not meet
> >> >your apparently lofty standards? Please just decline to download
> >> >postings that you do not want to read.
> >>
> >> In the first place you *could* consider adhering to netiquette
> >> standards for Usenet (which are not the same as *my* lofty standards,
> >> thank you).
> >>
> >> In the second place, people with an above-average IQ are aware that
> >> one needs to download and read a particular posting in order to check
> >> whether it was worth downloading in the first place.
> >>
> >> In the third place, your branding of my polite request as 'whining'
> >> tells me to not set my expectations too high about the rationality of
> >> any response you may give.
> >
> >You should have included your comments which provoked the remark
> >of Sheleen. Not to say Sheleen is right or wrong, but it's clear
> >you were the one who deleted the context of Sheleen's comments,
> >not the other way around.
>
>
Amazon
Rob Pjilatus wrote:
> depends
> > from where on da "Bell Curve" you are looking at it from!!!! DUMBASS!!!!!
> > WFF
>
> It takes an above average IQ for a Dutchman. The same IQ is below
> average every where else in the world.
Stop crossposting your garbage to soc.culture.ukrainian, it is off
topic.
ĄEl Brujo!
In, <01bd616c$dbe93d20$6601...@ice.ice.baby>, on 6 Apr 1998 22:41:52
GMT, "Fabrice Mjorvan" <so...@ice.ice.baby> wrote:
Ş
Ş
ŞHessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare <jiha...@anus.com>
wrote in
Şarticle <35293a1a....@news.loop.com>...
Ş>
Ş> USENET is garbage. Fuck reality.
Ş
ŞGarbage is a rock combo. I would fuck the chick who sings for them,
Şeven if she had a garlic aroma that could level Tacoma.
I hear the singer for Garbage has a couple of sisters who can raise a
few blisters...
Ş
Ş> On 6 Apr 1998 12:04:17 GMT, "Rob Pjilatus" <sti...@ice.ice.baby>
Ş> wrote:
Ş>
Ş> >
Ş> >
Ş> >Michel Couzijn <couzijn@/remove-this/ilo.uva.nl> wrote in article
Ş> ><35282a81...@news.xs4all.nl>...
Ş> >> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 03:51:57 +0000, Eli Sheleen
<k...@wolfcity.wy.org>
Ş> >> wrote:
Ş> >>
Ş> >> >May I kindly ask you not to whine about postings that do not
meet
Ş> >> >your apparently lofty standards? Please just decline to
download
Ş> >> >postings that you do not want to read.
Ş> >>
Ş> >> In the first place you *could* consider adhering to netiquette
Ş> >> standards for Usenet (which are not the same as *my* lofty
standards,
Ş> >> thank you).
Ş> >>
Ş> >> In the second place, people with an above-average IQ are aware
that
Ş> >> one needs to download and read a particular posting in order to
check
Ş> >> whether it was worth downloading in the first place.
Ş> >>
Ş> >> In the third place, your branding of my polite request as
'whining'
Ş> >> tells me to not set my expectations too high about the
rationality of
Ş> >> any response you may give.
Ş> >
Ş> >You should have included your comments which provoked the remark
Ş> >of Sheleen. Not to say Sheleen is right or wrong, but it's clear
Ş> >you were the one who deleted the context of Sheleen's comments,
Ş> >not the other way around.
Ş>
Ş>
Ş> Jihad 666 @ anus.com "The devil is no man
Ş> Free humanity from deception And no man's friend"
Ş> Knowledge uber alles! - Lt. Jack Sharp
Ş>
Ş> <http://www.anus.com/metal/> metal music
Ş> <http://www.kcuf.org/> metal radio
Ş> <http://www.sodomy.org/> sodomy
Ş> <http://www.blackplague/holocaust/> xian86
Ş>
Ş> "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a
Ş> statistic." - Joseph Stalin
Ş>
--
###############################################################
# http://www.webcene.com/El_Brujo/index.html #
# _____________ __________ __ ._. #
# \_ _____/ | \______ \______ __ __ |__| ____| | #
# | __)_| | | | _|_ __ \ | \ | |/ _ \ | #
# | \ |__ | | \| | \/ | / | ( <_> )| #
# /_______ /____/ |______ /|__| |____/\__| |\____/__ #
# \/ \/ \______| \/ #
# "Your site sucks" - The Glenn Webb Seal of Approval® #
###############################################################
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare
On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:05:27 GMT, el#brujo@net#cene.com (¡El Brujo!)
wrote:
>ŞGarbage is a rock combo. I would fuck the chick who sings for them,
>Şeven if she had a garlic aroma that could level Tacoma.
>
>I hear the singer for Garbage has a couple of sisters who can raise a
>few blisters...
That they're actually gay is a pisser...
<http://www.anus.com/metal/> metal music
<http://www.kcuf.org/> metal radio
<http://www.sodomy.org/> sodomy
<http://www.blackplague/holocaust/> xian86
"One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a
statistic." - Joseph Stalin
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare
On 6 Apr 1998 22:41:52 GMT, "Fabrice Mjorvan" <so...@ice.ice.baby>
wrote:
>
>
>Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare <jiha...@anus.com> wrote in
>article <35293a1a....@news.loop.com>...
>>
>> USENET is garbage. Fuck reality.
>
>Garbage is a rock combo. I would fuck the chick who sings for them, even
>if she had a garlic aroma that could level Tacoma.
Calling that rock is like calling space junk garbage. I'd garlic her
up and take her to Oklahoma.
>
>
>> On 6 Apr 1998 12:04:17 GMT, "Rob Pjilatus" <sti...@ice.ice.baby>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Michel Couzijn <couzijn@/remove-this/ilo.uva.nl> wrote in article
>> ><35282a81...@news.xs4all.nl>...
>> >> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 03:51:57 +0000, Eli Sheleen <k...@wolfcity.wy.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >May I kindly ask you not to whine about postings that do not meet
>> >> >your apparently lofty standards? Please just decline to download
>> >> >postings that you do not want to read.
>> >>
>> >> In the first place you *could* consider adhering to netiquette
>> >> standards for Usenet (which are not the same as *my* lofty standards,
>> >> thank you).
>> >>
>> >> In the second place, people with an above-average IQ are aware that
>> >> one needs to download and read a particular posting in order to check
>> >> whether it was worth downloading in the first place.
>> >>
>> >> In the third place, your branding of my polite request as 'whining'
>> >> tells me to not set my expectations too high about the rationality of
>> >> any response you may give.
>> >
>> >You should have included your comments which provoked the remark
>> >of Sheleen. Not to say Sheleen is right or wrong, but it's clear
>> >you were the one who deleted the context of Sheleen's comments,
>> >not the other way around.
>>
>>
The Salaminizer
Rocky <Commodore/UPPER half/1st Virginia Volunteers/Cesium
Brigade=*mhm_16_x_3*=@alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk_NUKE_FRANCE_AND_TH
OSE_CUNTS_IN_BELGIUM> wrote in article
<352fdf51...@news.virgin.net>...
> "Rob Pjilatus" <sti...@ice.ice.baby> wrote:
>
> +>
> +>
> +>Jonathan I. Kamens <j...@kamens.brookline.ma.us> wrote in article
> +><6g99b6$4gi$5...@jik.shore.net>...
> +>> I just subscribed to soc.culture.jewish after a long absence to post
a
> +>> query about something. I'd forgotten how entertaining it could be,
in
> +>> a sad sort of way.
> +>>
> +>> *plonk*
> +>
> +>*titty fuck*
>
> TITTY FUCK
>
Titty Plonk
--
Death Metal Music Association: http://www.blackplague.org/dmma/
KCUF: http://www.kcuf.org
Gortician: http://www.kcuf.org/bands/gortician.html
Eternal Frost Webzine: http://www.mindspring.com/~goden/eternalfrost/
Nestor Makhno
WFF wrote:
>
> In article <6gas6t$iuf$1...@news.netvision.net.il>, "Reuven Singer" <reuv...@netvision.net.il> wrote:
> >Richard Phillips wrote
> > "For obvious reasons, historical records of Jewish ritual Murder (to the
> >extent that they exist) are not readily available today. This is not
> >proof that they never existed. to uncover them would be a very
> >demanding job of scholarly research.
> >
> >
> >**It sure would be a demanding scholarly job since it would involve
> >manufacturing the evidence from the start.** !!!!????
> How do you know this????? GEEEEEEEZZZZZZZ, more "smoke"!
>
> I'm sure you can tackle it if you
> >really want to. This whole thread is based on a dubious account of an
> >incident related by a neo-nazi which no one else has ever heard of- and you
> >are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker. Would you like to buy a bridge in
> >New York City?
Delete this from soc.culture.ukrainian please.
-Nestor Makhno
Richard G. Philllips
===============================================
PHillips
When the liberal has nothing of significance to add, he can always be
depended upon to fall back on epithet: racist, nazi, neo-nazi, skinhead,
redneck, trailer-park trash.
The incident, as it was related, consists of certain verifiable facts.
NOw if you wish to be taken as a serious contributor to this thread,
please attempt to address those facts.
==========================================
Alan Hecht
"Richard G. Philllips" (rgp...@earthlink.net) writes:
>
> The incident, as it was related, consists of certain verifiable facts.
> NOw if you wish to be taken as a serious contributor to this thread,
> please attempt to address those facts.
> ==========================================
They would be verifiable if they were facts, but the sources Covington
claims to back up his story do not say what he wants us to think they say.
I believe Inoted this in an earlier post. Please get ahold of the book
_Getting away with murder_ and read the relevant chapters before you
assert that Covington's account is in any way factual beyond the fact that
these people were murdered by *someone.* Oh yeah, the part about the
Packard is true too, but that seems to be all.
Also, the book mentions absolutely nothing about the Jewish community
giving the families of the victims money for any reason. Now in your
view--and Covington's-- this book may itself be part of the conspiracy.
But it also appears to be Covington's *only* source of information about
these crimes. And no, I do not count spirits from lost Atlantis as
credible sources, nor do too many other people.
ant0n
WFF wrote:
> In article <352996E2...@enteract.com>, ant0n <an...@enteract.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >WFF wrote:
> >
> >> That takes an above average IQ???? GEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZ .... guess, it depends
> >> from where on da "Bell Curve" you are looking at it from!!!! DUMBASS!!!!!
> >> WFF
> >
> >No, it doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about. What does that make
> > you?
> >
> >Andrzej Borowiec
> >
> A little less mouth and a little more logic please, Mr. Andrzej
> Nostrilitis Borowiec! You're acting like a walking, talking "stereotype"! Loud
> noises & NO brains don't get it here! hahahahaha
You can drivel what you want, but it still does not explain how anything is
dependent on the observer's placement on the bell curve. I suspect that it's not the
only thing about which you are completely clueless. Typically trollish.
Andrzej Borowiec
Richard G. Philllips
=======================================================
Phillips
IN saying all that I have said for this thread I have, of course,
presumed the veracity of the original source -- possibly I was naive in
doing so. I don't know.
These are the facts I am assuming ARE facts.
(1) That four children were murdered and murdered in a way that DID NOT
PROVE but was suggestive of Jewish ritual murder, based on historical
accounts of such.
(2) That a newspaper account of the murders --without saying anything
about Jews or about ritual murder- made vague suggestions about
possible "religious cults," or something of that sort. And that these
newspapers --within minutes of their appearing on the newstands were
suddenly and mysterious removed. Who has the power to make such a thing
happen?
(3) That the childrens' father, took his story to the police and --for
his troubles- was railroaded into a mental institution by a corrupt
Jewish sheriff with the connivance of an equally corrupt Jewish
psychiatrist.
(4) that the entire affair would have remained under wraps but for the
heroic efforts of the local coroner.
(5) that the psychiatrist --fearing the jig was up-- fled to
Switzerland, where he later died under mysterious circumstances.
(6) that a payment of $100,000 was made to the family of the victims.
======================================
Are you categorically denying any of these facts?
Bigmouth
Gloria Konsler <gkon...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<01bd6257$1b449c40$9e0c...@gkonsler.earthlink.net>...
> Would you folks please be so kind as to remove the rec.arts.disney.parks
> from the "reply to" newsgroup list if you choose to reply to this thread.
> It has no relevance to that particular newsgroup. Thanks so much.
You heard the little lady. Next one to followup to this thread, be sure to
remove the rec.arts.disney.parks from the "reply to" newsgroup list.
> Gloria in Michigan
> ...Intelligence is like a river...
> the deeper it is, the less noise it makes...
>
>
> WFF <w...@dot.com> wrote in article <6gdj84$o...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>...
WFF
In article <352AE027...@enteract.com>, ant0n <an...@enteract.com> wrote:
>
>
>WFF wrote:
>
>> In article <352996E2...@enteract.com>, ant0n <an...@enteract.com>
> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >WFF wrote:
>> >
>> >> That takes an above average IQ???? GEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZ .... guess, it
> depends
>> >> from where on da "Bell Curve" you are looking at it from!!!! DUMBASS!!!!!
>> >> WFF
>> >
>> >No, it doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about. What does that
> make
>> > you?
>> >
>> >Andrzej Borowiec
>> >
>> A little less mouth and a little more logic please, Mr. Andrzej
>> Nostrilitis Borowiec! You're acting like a walking, talking "stereotype"!
> Loud
>> noises & NO brains don't get it here! hahahahaha
>
>dependent on the observer's placement on the bell curve. I suspect that it's
> not the
>only thing about which you are completely clueless. Typically trollish.
>
>
>
One time & one time only ... so "listen up"! ... From your relative position
on the south, left slope ... it would certainly appear that almost everyone is
above average! Of course, this assumes that you consider your stupid self
average or above (as most intellectually challenged perverts do) ..... FYI,
following is the STUPID comment that precipitated the remark!
"In the second place, people with an above-average IQ are aware that
one needs to download and read a particular posting in order to check
whether it was worth downloading in the first place."
As I (and probably not you) can see ... this poster had obvious mental defects
... to assume that someone had to be "above average" to realize that! See if
you can digest that ... Mr. Sid Nostrilitus Stereotype!
Mark Van Alstine
More like mendacious. And stupid. (Mustn't forget the stupid part.)
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare
On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 15:46:15 GMT, Commodore/UPPER half/1st Virginia
Volunteers/Cesium
Brigade=*mhm_16_x_3*=@alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk_NUKE_FRANCE_AND_THOSE_CUNTS_IN_BELGIUM
(Rocky) wrote:
>"Rob Pjilatus" <sti...@ice.ice.baby> wrote:
>
>+>
>+>
>+>Jonathan I. Kamens <j...@kamens.brookline.ma.us> wrote in article
>+><6g99b6$4gi$5...@jik.shore.net>...
>+>> I just subscribed to soc.culture.jewish after a long absence to post a
>+>> query about something. I'd forgotten how entertaining it could be, in
>+>> a sad sort of way.
>+>>
>+>> *plonk*
>+>
>+>*titty fuck*
>
>TITTY FUCK
Shitty Bonk
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare
On 7 Apr 1998 02:19:39 GMT, "The Salaminizer"
<gort...@juno.comFUCKSPAM> wrote:
>
>
>
>Rocky <Commodore/UPPER half/1st Virginia Volunteers/Cesium
>Brigade=*mhm_16_x_3*=@alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk_NUKE_FRANCE_AND_TH
>OSE_CUNTS_IN_BELGIUM> wrote in article
><352fdf51...@news.virgin.net>...
>> "Rob Pjilatus" <sti...@ice.ice.baby> wrote:
>>
>> +>
>> +>
>> +>Jonathan I. Kamens <j...@kamens.brookline.ma.us> wrote in article
>> +><6g99b6$4gi$5...@jik.shore.net>...
>> +>> I just subscribed to soc.culture.jewish after a long absence to post
>a
>> +>> query about something. I'd forgotten how entertaining it could be,
>in
>> +>> a sad sort of way.
>> +>>
>> +>> *plonk*
>> +>
>> +>*titty fuck*
>>
>> TITTY FUCK
>>
>
>Titty Plonk
Pity Tlonk
>--
>Death Metal Music Association: http://www.blackplague.org/dmma/
>KCUF: http://www.kcuf.org
>Gortician: http://www.kcuf.org/bands/gortician.html
>Eternal Frost Webzine: http://www.mindspring.com/~goden/eternalfrost/
>
>
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare
GODDAMN HOMOSEXUALS RUN OUR COUNTRY
On 6 Apr 1998 12:02:02 GMT, "Rob Pjilatus" <sti...@ice.ice.baby>
wrote:
>
>
>Jonathan I. Kamens <j...@kamens.brookline.ma.us> wrote in article
><6g99b6$4gi$5...@jik.shore.net>...
>> I just subscribed to soc.culture.jewish after a long absence to post a
>> query about something. I'd forgotten how entertaining it could be, in
>> a sad sort of way.
>>
>> *plonk*
>
>*titty fuck*
cou...@/remove/ilo.uva.nl
On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 03:43:22 GMT, w...@dot.com (WFF) wrote:
>One time & one time only ...
Why? Do you fear the responses to your posting?
>(...) FYI, following is the STUPID comment that precipitated the remark!
>>"In the second place, people with an above-average IQ are aware that
>>one needs to download and read a particular posting in order to check
>>whether it was worth downloading in the first place."
>As I (and probably not you) can see ... this poster had obvious mental defects
What you see is not necessarily there.
>... to assume that someone had to be "above average" to realize that!
To believe that:
* " people with an above-average IQ are aware of X "
* " only people with an above-average IQ are aware of X "
are equal statements is the result of a mental defect.
Try to repair that defect, please.
Michel Couzijn
Instituut voor de Lerarenopleiding / Graduate School of Teaching and Learning
Universiteit van Amsterdam, Wibautstraat 2-4, 1091 GM Amsterdam,
Tel. 020-5251588 ; Fax. 020-5251290 ; cou...@ilo.uva.nl ; http://www.ilo.uva.nl
Anonymous
JD S <roc...@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>Alexander Baron wrote:
>>
>> In article <3528DA67...@netvision.net.il>
>> roc...@netvision.net.il "JD S" writes:
>>
>> > Alexander Baron wrote:
>>
>> > You also don't see anti-Mexicans preaching that Satanic ritual murder is part
>> > of the Mexican culture, something they do on a daily basis and is unique to
>> > them. So what's your point ?
>>
>> The reason you don't see this is because the Mexicans wouldn't scream as loudly
>> as the Jews, but then does anyone?
>
>I see you possess the reasoning capabilities of a 6 year old. I'll try again,
>s l o o o w w l l l y :
>
>Some satanic ritual murder was performed by Mexicans.
>No one accused Mexicans of performing ritual murders.
>Most people have enough common sense (unlike you) to realise
>that the fact that a group of Mexicans did this has got nothing
>to do with actual Mexicans.
>
>Still with me ?
>
>Some satanic ritual murder was performed by Christians.
>No one accused Christians of performing ritual murders.
>Just because some Christians did this it does not mean that
>ALL Christians practice ritual murder.
>
>You keeping up ?
>
>Allegedly, and never proven, it was suggested the Jews perform
>ritual murder as part of their culture and religion. Is this
>getting through to you ? ALL Jews were accused of that act.
>Naturally they protest. Do really you think that if someone accused
>Protestants of performing ritual murder there wouldn't be an outcry ?
>
>Well, I really don't expect an anti-Semite to be able to comprehend
>something simple like logic, what with their IQs combined they might
>be able to outperform a retard.
I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should apologize and
repent for the part played by some Catholics in the Holocaust. Jewish
groups expressed dissapointment that the recent statement by the Pope
failed to admit guilt on the part of the Catholic Church for war crimes,
real or imagined, committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been
Catholics, during WWII. Does not the same principle apply to such
accusations?
Alan Hecht
I'm saying they aren't even hinted at in the single source Mr. Covington
mentions.
<snip>
>
> Are you categorically denying any of these facts?
Richard G. Philllips
Phillips
It is hard to avoid the inference that the Jews have pretty much set
themselves at odds with Western Civilization, generally. They maintain
that the only proper posture for the Western world is for everyone in it
to perpetually walk the earth with their heads hung in shame over the
(allegedly) horrible things done to the Jews in World War II.
And no amount of self-abasement will satisfy them because it only whets
their appetites for more.
WFF
This IDIOT still doesn't get it!!! ... Oh well! Due to affirmative action and
other suspect programs, many peeps are receiving credentials of educational
achievement well beyound their intelligence level ... and you, Mr. Michel
Nostrilitis Couzijn are typing evidence of this phenoma!!!! A lot of noise
and very little logic ....
WFF
Harry Katz
Anonymous wrote:
I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should
apologize and repent for the part played by some Catholics in
the Holocaust. Jewish groups expressed dissapointment that the
recent statement by the Pope failed to admit guilt on the part
of the Catholic Church for war crimes, real or imagined,
committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been Catholics,
during WWII. Does not the same principle apply to such
accusations?
Mr. Anonymous is confusing apples and oranges. The crimes mentioned
are very real, and not at all imagined, but they are not the crimes of
individual Catholics. The crime is that of the Catholic Church
hierarchy, including the pope, in failing to protest Nazi crimes.
The pope of the time allowed the Nazis to round up Italian Jews for
deportation without the slightest peep. A glaring contrast to its
modern practice of speaking out against injustice.
Richard G. Philllips takes advantage of this confusion to inject his
brand of ignorance and venom:
It is hard to avoid the inference that the Jews have pretty much
set themselves at odds with Western Civilization, generally.
On the contrary, it is hard to prove "that the Jews have pretty much
set themselves at odds with Western Civilization," as Mr. Phillips
demonstrates by not providing any.
They maintain that the only proper posture for the Western world
is for everyone in it to perpetually walk the earth with their
heads hung in shame over the (allegedly) horrible things done to
the Jews in World War II.
Not at all! Only Mr. Phillips maintains such absurdities! They are
the strawmen that he attacks because he cannot find anything to attack
in the real position that Jews take. For example, he ignores the
memorials at Yad VaShem that commemorate the righteous gentiles who
aided Jews in escaping the Nazis.
And no amount of self-abasement will satisfy them because it
only whets their appetites for more.
The truth is that no amount of lies and insults will ever satisfy
Mr. Phillip's bizarre need to abuse the Jewish people for our
alleged sins and crimes.
--
Harry Katz
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare
Someone else do it.
On 8 Apr 1998 02:43:52 GMT, "Bigmouth" <nou...@all.but.a> wrote:
>
>
>Gloria Konsler <gkon...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
><01bd6257$1b449c40$9e0c...@gkonsler.earthlink.net>...
>> Would you folks please be so kind as to remove the rec.arts.disney.parks
>> from the "reply to" newsgroup list if you choose to reply to this thread.
>
>> It has no relevance to that particular newsgroup. Thanks so much.
>
>You heard the little lady. Next one to followup to this thread, be sure to
>remove the rec.arts.disney.parks from the "reply to" newsgroup list.
>
>
>
>> Gloria in Michigan
>> ...Intelligence is like a river...
>> the deeper it is, the less noise it makes...
>>
>>
>> WFF <w...@dot.com> wrote in article <6gdj84$o...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>...
>> > In article <352996E2...@enteract.com>, ant0n <an...@enteract.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >WFF wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> That takes an above average IQ???? GEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZ .... guess,
>it
>> depends
>> > >> from where on da "Bell Curve" you are looking at it from!!!!
>> DUMBASS!!!!!
>> > >> WFF
>> > >
>> > >No, it doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about. What does
>that
>> make
>> > > you?
>> > >
>> > >Andrzej Borowiec
>> > >
>> > A little less mouth and a little more logic please, Mr. Andrzej
>> > Nostrilitis Borowiec! You're acting like a walking, talking
>"stereotype"!
>> Loud
>> > noises & NO brains don't get it here! hahahahaha
>> >
>>
Anonymous
Harry Katz <Harry...@mci.com> wrote:
>Anonymous wrote:
>
> I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should
> apologize and repent for the part played by some Catholics in
> the Holocaust. Jewish groups expressed dissapointment that the
> recent statement by the Pope failed to admit guilt on the part
> of the Catholic Church for war crimes, real or imagined,
> committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been Catholics,
> during WWII. Does not the same principle apply to such
> accusations?
>
>Mr. Anonymous is confusing apples and oranges. The crimes mentioned
>are very real, and not at all imagined, but they are not the crimes of
>individual Catholics. The crime is that of the Catholic Church
>hierarchy, including the pope, in failing to protest Nazi crimes.
>The pope of the time allowed the Nazis to round up Italian Jews for
>deportation without the slightest peep. A glaring contrast to its
>modern practice of speaking out against injustice.
>
>Harry Katz
The principle stated in the original post, as I understood it, was that
one should not blame members of a group for wrongs committed by others in
the group. Your response suggests that you feel criticism of the present
Catholic heirarchy is justified because in your opinion the leaders of
fifty years ago did not do enough to stop the Nazis. Moreover, you appear
to think the Church should opologize for all present day catholics.
Whether its colored orange or apple-red, bigotry is bigotry.
the boy with a thorn in his side
Flaagg <noh...@wwilhelp.com> wrote in article
<MPG.f947bcec...@news.navicom.com>...
> In <MPG.f90ba6d5...@news.netvision.net.il>, Poul A. Costinsky
> <po...@earthling.net.NOSPAM.PLEASE> says...
>
> > Richard G. Philllips(rgp...@earthlink.net) wrote
> > in article <35263D...@earthlink.net>
> > |Poul A. Costinsky wrote:
> > |> Since it's no chance to convince this complete idiotic ignorant
> > |> moron, let's have fun!
> > |> |)In October of 1955 four White children, two young boys who were
brothers
> > |> |)and two teenaged sisters, were abducted and murdered in a manner
which was
> > |> |)suggestive of Jewish ritual sacrifice, the liturgical object of
which is to
> > |> |)obtain Gentile blood to mix with the matzoh used in several
esoteric Jewish
> > |> |)religious ceremonies such as Purim, Passover, and Kol Nidre at Yom
Kippur.
> > |> The previous generation of anti-Semith liars was less ignorant
> > |> boneheads. They at least knew that Jews don't use matzoh at
> > |> these holidays except Pesakh. Which happens at spring.
> > |Phillips
> > |Am I to take it, then, that those four children are somehow less dead
> > |for this reason.
> >
> > Let me explain one more time, slower. The bloody libel about Jewish
> > Ritual Murder is ridiculous, idiotic medieval lie, disproved zillion
> > times. So the credibility of this article is less then dubious.
> > Even more ridiculous makes it a fact that, unlike previous liars,
> > this author has no clue about elementary things in Jewish tradition,
> > which he could find in any library, and even in his Holy Bible.
> >
> > Now, despite all lies posted there, if these children indeed were
> > murdered, it's awful. But what should it have with Jews
> > or this dirty antisemith article?
> >
> > Let me understand: do you really believe, in the end of 20th century,
> > that Jews kill Christian children to put blood in matzoh?
> > Do you realize that blood is forbidden for Jews to eat, that matzoh
> > is used only on Pesakh, and children were allegedly murdered in
October,
> > that Yom Kippur is total fasting, when Jews don't eat and drink
anything?
> > It's just about a few holes in this story, and there are much more of
> > them... So, do you, Richard G. Philllips, believe in this idiocy?
> > Just curious...
> >
> > And the question to the author: why was it posted, above all,
> > on alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk?
>
> Gentile Kid Matzoh (and the proper preparation and enjoyment thereof) is
> so on-topic for AAVFFF that we were thinking of naming it
> alt.gentile.kid.matzoh.
>
> But then we didn't.
I have still netcopped you to Ashley Simon.
the boy with a thorn in his side
Richard G. Philllips <rgp...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<352BC2...@earthlink.net>...
> Scoop wrote:
> >
> > Quoth Richard G. Philllips:
> > : Joseph Hertzlinger wrote:
> > : >
> > : > Would you care to explain why it wasn't noticed until 1144?
> > : >
> > : > Would you care to explain why it was only noticed by European
> > : > Christians?
> > : >
> > : > It wasn't noticed by Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, or
> > : > Christians in the Byzantine Empire.
> > :
> > :
> > : For obvious reasons, historical records of Jewish ritual Murder (to
the
> > : extent that they exist) are not readily available today.
> >
> > I see. So obvious are these reasons, that you're unable to state them.
> >
> > Care to try dodging the question again, Dick?
> =================================================
> Phillips
>
> When you compose things "on the fly" you often don't give as good a
> answer as you would had you taken the tine to chew on it a bit.
>
> These were the questions followed in each case by my reply.
>
> Would you care to explain why it wasn't noticed until 1144?
> =====================================
> Can we be certain that it wasn't?
It wasn't and you know it, you Nazi.
> > : >
> > : > Would you care to explain why it was only noticed by European
> > : > Christians?
> ======================
> Can we be certain that this is the case?
What a trailer trash you are.
> > : > It wasn't noticed by Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, or
> > : > Christians in the Byzantine Empire.
> =====================
> How do we know this?
Isn't it time for your klavern meeting yet?
Yale F. Edeiken
*> > I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should
*> > apologize and repent for the part played by some Catholics in
*> > the Holocaust. Jewish groups expressed dissapointment that the
*> > recent statement by the Pope failed to admit guilt on the part
*> > of the Catholic Church for war crimes, real or imagined,
*> > committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been Catholics,
*> > during WWII. Does not the same principle apply to such
*> > accusations?
> >Mr. Anonymous is confusing apples and oranges. The crimes mentioned
> >are very real, and not at all imagined, but they are not the crimes of
> >individual Catholics. The crime is that of the Catholic Church
> >hierarchy, including the pope, in failing to protest Nazi crimes.
> >The pope of the time allowed the Nazis to round up Italian Jews for
> >deportation without the slightest peep. A glaring contrast to its
> >modern practice of speaking out against injustice.
> The principle stated in the original post, as I understood it, was that
> one should not blame members of a group for wrongs committed by others in
> the group.
And, as Mr. Katz pointed out, you are missing the point of the
controversy.
> Your response suggests that you feel criticism of the present
> Catholic heirarchy is justified because in your opinion the leaders of
> fifty years ago did not do enough to stop the Nazis.
You are misrepresenting the position of the critics of the report. Criticism of
the present Catholic heirarchy is made (my those who make it) because of what is
thought to be an improper rationalization of the failure to act.
> Moreover, you appear
> to think the Church should opologize for all present day catholics.
You are again misstating Mr. Katz's statements. The Catholic Church is an
institution. The question is not even what that institution did -- it remained silent --
but whether that was the right or wrong thing to do.
--YFE
visit the Holocaust History Project
http://holocaust-history.org
Yale F. Edeiken
> nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
> I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should apologize and
> repent for the part played by some Catholics in the Holocaust.
A group which includes the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and, over the
past years, many of its most eloquent spokesman.
> Jewish
> groups expressed dissapointment that the recent statement by the Pope
> failed to admit guilt on the part of the Catholic Church for war crimes,
> real or imagined, committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been
> Catholics, during WWII.
Totally untrue. The disappointment expressed is based -- with the admitted
failure of the Catholic Church as an institution to take some action -- on the
justification the Pope gave for this failure to act.
--YFE
visit The Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org
pgroff
>===============================================
>PHillips
>
>When the liberal has nothing of significance to add, he can always be
>depended upon to fall back on epithet: racist, nazi, neo-nazi, skinhead,
>redneck, trailer-park trash.
Funny, but when people write material that supports the notion that
they indeed are allied with or support racists, nazi,neo-nazi,
skinhead, redneck, trailer-park trash.
>
>The incident, as it was related, consists of certain verifiable facts.
>NOw if you wish to be taken as a serious contributor to this thread,
>please attempt to address those facts.
And you in your never ending stream of verifiable facts, which of
course you didn't post, attribute or other wise bring to the fore,
which is typical of the above named groups.
>==========================================
ant0n
WFF wrote:
> (...)>> >> That takes an above average IQ???? GEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZ .... guess, it
> > depends
> >> >> from where on da "Bell Curve" you are looking at it from!!!! DUMBASS!!!!!
> >> >> WFF
> >> >
> >> >No, it doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about. What does that
> > make
> >> > you?
> >> >
> >> >Andrzej Borowiec
> >> >
> >> A little less mouth and a little more logic please, Mr. Andrzej
> >> Nostrilitis Borowiec! You're acting like a walking, talking "stereotype"!
> > Loud
> >> noises & NO brains don't get it here! hahahahaha
> >
> >You can drivel what you want, but it still does not explain how anything is
> >dependent on the observer's placement on the bell curve. I suspect that it's
> > not the
> >only thing about which you are completely clueless. Typically trollish.
> >
> >Andrzej Nostrilitis Borowiec
> >
> >
> One time & one time only ... so "listen up"! ... From your relative position
> on the south, left slope ... it would certainly appear that almost everyone is
> above average!
That's how it would appear to a village idiot, which by coincidence is reflected by
the content of your original statement.
> Of course, this assumes that you consider your stupid self
> average or above (as most intellectually challenged perverts do) ..... FYI,
> following is the STUPID comment that precipitated the remark!
> "In the second place, people with an above-average IQ are aware that one needs to
> download and read a particular posting in order to check whether it was worth
> downloading in the first place."
So this statement is stupid because _you_ weren't aware of the fact that
"(...)one needs to download and read a particular posting in order to check whether
it was worth downloading in the first place." Don't make me laugh...
> As I (and probably not you) can see ... this poster had obvious mental defects
> ... to assume that someone had to be "above average" to realize that! See if
> you can digest that ... Mr. Sid Nostrilitus Stereotype!
You seem to be unable to comprehend a simple statement. The fact that all people
with above average intelligence know something does not mean that all the people
who know that something have above average intelligence. Unless one uses village
idiot logic...
Andrzej Borowiec
Anonymous
Well, perhaps we are reading different newspapers. The one I read
quotes David Blumenthal, professor of Jewish studies at Emory U. as having
said the Pope's document should have been "a call to penitence." Rabbi
David Goldsein of Touro Synagogue said the Church did go far enough
examining "its own role in the Holocaust." To suggest that the Church
played a role in the Holocaust and should feel penitent is nothing if not
bigotry.
Yale F. Edeiken
> > Totally untrue. The disappointment expressed is based -- with the admitted
> >failure of the Catholic Church as an institution to take some action -- on the
> >justification the Pope gave for this failure to act.
> Well, perhaps we are reading different newspapers. The one I read
> quotes David Blumenthal, professor of Jewish studies at Emory U. as having
> said the Pope's document should have been "a call to penitence."
Here is what Pope John Paul II has stated about the participation of
Catholics in the Holocaust:
"[The Church should] express profound regret for the weakness of of so
many of her sons and daughters who sullied her face, preventing her from fully
mirroring the image of her crucified Lord, the supreme witness of patient love and of
human weakness." Apostolic Letter of September 24, 1994 "As the Third Millenium
Draws Near"
Here is what one spokesman for the Catholic Church has stated:
"It was in this spirit [referring to "As the Third Millenium Draws Near] that my
brother bishops in Germany, on the occasion of the fiftieth anniversary of the liberation
of Auschwitz-Birkenau, issued a statement in which they took responsibility for the
failure of the Catholic community during the Shoah. While mindful of the exemplary
behavior certain individuals and groups, some of whom I have already named, the
German bishops acknowledged that 'Christians did not offer due resistance the rcial
anti-Semitism. Many times there was failure and guilt among Catholics.' And they go
on to ass a point with which I wholeheartedly concur: 'The practical sincereity of our
will of renewal is also linked to the confession of this guilt and the willingness to
painfully learn from this history of guilt . . . '" John Cardinal Bernadin March 23, 1995
It should be noted that the archdiocese of Chicago considers this statement
of such continuing importance that it is included as part of their website.
I feel there was quite a bit of disappointment that the recent statement of
the Church seemed to excuse the Pope's failure to take moral leadership for the failure
to act. The failure was excused in the statement on the ground that it was not
practical. While I have a certain sympathy with point of view, many thought it denied
the the role of the Church as a moral leader. Many were also disappointed because
the statement was critical of the role of the U.S. and Great Britain, partly for failing to
take moral leadership.
> Rabbi
> David Goldstein of Touro Synagogue said the Church did go far enough
> examining "its own role in the Holocaust."
As the statement did not go as far as Pope John Paul II and other leaders
have in the past, his criticism is, at least, an arguable position.
> To suggest that the Church played a role in the Holocaust and should feel
>penitent is nothing if not bigotry.
Pope John Paul II is an anti-Catholic bigot?
John Cardinal Bernadin was an anti-Catholic bigot?
The Congress of German Bishops are anti-Catholic bigots?
Echoing the statement of the leaders of the Catholic Church is "bigotry?"
Suggest you take two aspirin and smell the coffee.
Gwen A Orel
There is a difference in acts committed by individuals in violation
of the organizations to which they belong and acts taken officialy
by organizations. For example, "America" was involved in Vietnam,
not a bunch of random Americans acting on their own. It is quite right
to criticize "America," but one may be mistaken with regard to individual
Americans.
Similarly, criticizing the Catholic church for its actions is in no
way a criticism of every Catholic. And vice versa: the fact that
some priests have molested altar boys in no way makes it part of
Catholic theology for priests to molest altar boys.
this is a crucial point which you cannot seem to grasp.
Gwen
Anonymous (nob...@REPLAY.COM) wrote:
: Harry Katz <Harry...@mci.com> wrote:
: >Anonymous wrote:
: >
: > I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should
: > apologize and repent for the part played by some Catholics in
: > the Holocaust. Jewish groups expressed dissapointment that the
: > recent statement by the Pope failed to admit guilt on the part
: > of the Catholic Church for war crimes, real or imagined,
: > committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been Catholics,
: > during WWII. Does not the same principle apply to such
: > accusations?
: >
: >Mr. Anonymous is confusing apples and oranges. The crimes mentioned
: >are very real, and not at all imagined, but they are not the crimes of
: >individual Catholics. The crime is that of the Catholic Church
: >hierarchy, including the pope, in failing to protest Nazi crimes.
: >The pope of the time allowed the Nazis to round up Italian Jews for
: >deportation without the slightest peep. A glaring contrast to its
: >modern practice of speaking out against injustice.
: >
: >Harry Katz
: The principle stated in the original post, as I understood it, was that
: one should not blame members of a group for wrongs committed by others in
: the group. Your response suggests that you feel criticism of the present
: Catholic heirarchy is justified because in your opinion the leaders of
: fifty years ago did not do enough to stop the Nazis. Moreover, you appear
: to think the Church should opologize for all present day catholics.
: Whether its colored orange or apple-red, bigotry is bigotry.
--
"Live as one already dead." --Japanese saying
If one tells the truth one is sure, sooner or later, to be found out.
--Oscar Wilde
Gwen A Orel
Anonymous (nob...@REPLAY.COM) wrote:
: Well, perhaps we are reading different newspapers. The one I read
: quotes David Blumenthal, professor of Jewish studies at Emory U. as having
: said the Pope's document should have been "a call to penitence." Rabbi
: David Goldsein of Touro Synagogue said the Church did go far enough
: examining "its own role in the Holocaust." To suggest that the Church
: played a role in the Holocaust and should feel penitent is nothing if not
: bigotry.
It's not bigotry at all to state that you feel a certain organization
acted in a reprehensible way and should now apologize. At best you
could say you find it unwarranted, but of course it's not bigotry.
America-- as a government-- formally apologized not too long ago
for the treatment of Japanese Americans during WWII. It was not bigotry
that requested or prompted the apology, nor was it bigotry to
criticize the American government of the present for its failure to
acknowledge wrongdoings of the past government.
You seem to think asking an organization to take responsibility
for its past actions is bigotry. It isn't.
Gwen
Yale F. Edeiken
> gao...@pitt.edu (Gwen A Orel) writes:
> There is a difference in acts committed by individuals in violation
> of the organizations to which they belong and acts taken officialy
> by organizations. For example, "America" was involved in Vietnam,
> not a bunch of random Americans acting on their own. It is quite right
> to criticize "America," but one may be mistaken with regard to individual
> Americans.
> Similarly, criticizing the Catholic church for its actions is in no
> way a criticism of every Catholic. And vice versa: the fact that
> some priests have molested altar boys in no way makes it part of
> Catholic theology for priests to molest altar boys.
> this is a crucial point which you cannot seem to grasp.
Nor does he seem to recognize the point that the criticisms of the recent
statement mirror the comments of many Catholic spokesmen including Pope John
Paul II, John Cardinal Bernadin, and the German bishops.
--YFE
visit the Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org
Misha Goss
nation...@hotmail.com (Lenny ) wrote:
> This is obvious, but I wanted to post it as a warning.
>The jews,
>especially the
non-observant
>ones ,
are murdering Jewish rituals!
--Misha Goss
Michel Couzijn
To the coward without name and with a faked e-mail address:
On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 15:26:49 GMT, in soc.culture.polish you wrote:
>This IDIOT still doesn't get it!!!
No indeed. I still did not get anything interesting from this exchange
with you. Thank you very much for the absence of arguments in your
postings. You have convincingly demonstrated the acoustic qualities of
your brain.
We won't meet again - and I must tell you that I really do not feel
sorry for that.
Michel Couzijn
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Richard G. Philllips
Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>
> > nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
> > I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should apologize and
> > repent for the part played by some Catholics in the Holocaust.
>
> past years, many of its most eloquent spokesman.
>
> > groups expressed dissapointment that the recent statement by the Pope
> > failed to admit guilt on the part of the Catholic Church for war crimes,
> > real or imagined, committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been
> > Catholics, during WWII.
>
> failure of the Catholic Church as an institution to take some action -- on the
> justification the Pope gave for this failure to act.
>
> visit The Holocaust History Project
> http://www.holocaust-history.org
===========================================
Phillips
Before you accuse the then-Pope (Pius XII) of failing to speak out
against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to first
establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact taking place.
This seems to be a topic of hot controversy on this NG. Until it is an
accepted fact you are hardly in a position to fault the Catholic church
(or any institution) of complicity in it.
========================================
Alan Hecht
"Richard G. Philllips" (rgp...@earthlink.net) writes:
> Scoop wrote:
>
> (3) So far no one has flatly denied that account.
>
I haven't heard anyone flatly deny accounts of the easter bunny recently,
either. The account could only be flatly denied if Mr. Covington revealed
where--other than _Getting away with murder_, which does not remotely
support anything he said except that these ppl were murdered, and that a
Packard may have been involved--he got his information. Then, maybe, it
could be verified or disproven. I don't imagine this happening anytime
soon. All of this leads me to believe that Mr. Covington is getting his
information from spirits from Atlantis, and those damned Atlanteans don't
give *me* the time of day.
So it goes.
ChuckF2323
Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder
From: "Richard G. Philllips" <rgp...@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, Apr 9, 1998 1:30 PM
Message-id: <352CCD...@earthlink.net>
Chuck Ferree wrote
Phillips, you idiot, would the Pope and or any other Catholic Official
recognize the Holocaust as historical facts, and acknowledge the role the
Church should have played but failed to? Come on, Phillips, try a little
harder.
Chuck Ferree
This seems to be a topic of hot controversy on this NG. Until it is an
accepted fact you are hardly in a position to fault the Catholic church
(or any institution) of complicity in it.
========================================
Chuck Ferree
Please visit: http://remember.org/witness/dachlib.html
Also: www2.3dresearch.com/~june/Vincent/Camps/CampsEngl.html
Gwen A Orel
Alexander Baron (A_B...@abaron.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <352CB5...@earthlink.net>
: > (4) I am challenged to explain why (a) We have no accounts of ritual
: > murder prior to 1144 and (b) We have no accounts of it outside of
: > Europe. I have two replies to that:
: We do, the Christians were first accused of it, and as all the early Christians
: were Jews and Jews were in the forefront of the allegation they have themselves
: to blame. The British have also been accused of it, and of course many
: religions practiced it, but to even suggest that the Jewish religion might
: have causes howls of outrage.
Christians are not Jews, by definition, dum dum.
And accusations are not the same as evidence.
Of course people howl in outrage when slandered b y idiots such
as you.
And once again, even if individual Jews or Christians had done this,
which I categoriacally deny, that is a far cry from it being part of
the religion.
Harry Katz
Anonymous wrote:
I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should
apologize and repent for the part played by some Catholics in
the Holocaust. Jewish groups expressed dissapointment that the
recent statement by the Pope failed to admit guilt on the part
of the Catholic Church for war crimes, real or imagined,
committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been Catholics,
during WWII. Does not the same principle apply to such
accusations?
I responded:
Mr. Anonymous is confusing apples and oranges. The crimes
mentioned are very real, and not at all imagined, but they are
not the crimes of individual Catholics. The crime is that of
the Catholic Church hierarchy, including the pope, in failing to
protest Nazi crimes. The pope of the time allowed the Nazis to
round up Italian Jews for deportation without the slightest
peep. A glaring contrast to its modern practice of speaking out
against injustice.
Mr. Anonymous responds:
The principle stated in the original post, as I understood it,
was that one should not blame members of a group for wrongs
committed by others in the group. Your response suggests that
you feel criticism of the present Catholic heirarchy is
justified because in your opinion the leaders of fifty years
ago did not do enough to stop the Nazis.
Mr. Anonymous is still confused. Yes, I do feel that criticism of the
leadership of the Catholic Church is entirely justified, because they
do not represent the individual Catholics so much as they represent the
church as an institution. As an institution, until the hierarchy
acknowledges policies that were set for it by previous administrations
and repudiates them, the Catholic Church can be said to stand by the
decisions and actions of previous hierarchs.
Moreover, you appear to think the Church should opologize for
all present day catholics.
No, that is not true. The Catholic Church need only apologize for
its own institutional mistakes, not for its individual members. The
only obligation the Church has to its members is to instruct them
not to behave in the future as they were erroneously instructed to
behave in the past.
Whether its colored orange or apple-red, bigotry is bigotry.
Mr. Anonymous ought not to mistake his own confusion for bigotry
in others.
--
Harry Katz
Harry Katz
Richard G. Philllips whines:
Before you accuse the then-Pope (Pius XII) of failing to speak
out against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to
first establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact
taking place.
This seems to be a topic of hot controversy on this NG. Until it
is an accepted fact you are hardly in a position to fault the
Catholic church (or any institution) of complicity in it.
Mr. Phillips must be using a definition of the word "accepted" that
has not made it into any of the standard dictionaries of the English
language, yet. The facts of the Holocaust have been accepted by
the overwhelming majority of bona fide historians.
They have not been accepted by a tiny minority of crackpots, which
includes Mr. Phillips as one of their shining lights. It is entirely
because Mr. Phillips cannot refute the overwhelming evidence supporting
the facts of the Holocaust, that he pretends it is not his job to refute
them, but the job of bona fide historians to prove it to him,
regardless of whether or not Mr. Phillips is actually capable of
understanding the evidence in the first place.
--
Harry Katz
Richard G. Philllips
ChuckF2323 wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder
> From: "Richard G. Philllips" <rgp...@earthlink.net>
> Date: Thu, Apr 9, 1998 1:30 PM
> Message-id: <352CCD...@earthlink.net>
>
> Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> >
> > > nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
> > > repent for the part played by some Catholics in the Holocaust.
> >
> the
> > past years, many of its most eloquent spokesman.
> >
> > > groups expressed dissapointment that the recent statement by the Pope
> > > failed to admit guilt on the part of the Catholic Church for war crimes,
> > > real or imagined, committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been
> > > Catholics, during WWII.
> >
> admitted
> > failure of the Catholic Church as an institution to take some action -- on
> the
> > justification the Pope gave for this failure to act.
> >
> > --YFE
> > visit The Holocaust History Project
> > http://www.holocaust-history.org
> ===========================================
> Phillips
>
> against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to first
> establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact taking place.
>
> Phillips, you idiot, would the Pope and or any other Catholic Official
> recognize the Holocaust as historical facts, and acknowledge the role the
> Church should have played but failed to? Come on, Phillips, try a little
> harder.
==================
PHillips, the idiot
I like to think that I express myself in fairly lucid English but, since
this is apparently not the case, I will have to repeat myself: Pius XII
is being accused of failing to use his extremely high office to denounce
exterminations, when the historical FACT of those exterminations has yet
to be established -- indeed, it is very much in contention and in fact
that contention is the very raison d'etre of this NG.
======================
>
Richard G. Philllips
pgroff wrote:
>
> On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:28:51 -0400, "Richard G. Philllips"
> <rgp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >===============================================
> >PHillips
> >
> >When the liberal has nothing of significance to add, he can always be
> >depended upon to fall back on epithet: racist, nazi, neo-nazi, skinhead,
> >redneck, trailer-park trash.
>
Funny, but when people write material that supports the notion that
> they indeed are allied with or support racists, nazi,neo-nazi,
> skinhead, redneck, trailer-park trash.
=======================================
Phillips
I would be happy to reply to that sentence but cannot because you did
not complete it.
==================================
> >Philips (previous)
> >The incident, as it was related, consists of certain verifiable facts.
> >NOw if you wish to be taken as a serious contributor to this thread,
> >please attempt to address those facts.
==========================================================
> And you in your never ending stream of verifiable facts, which of
> course you didn't post, attribute or other wise bring to the fore,
> which is typical of the above named groups.
=============================================
PHillips
" .. which of course you didn't post ..." ?????
Dear Friend: YOu seem to be having difficulty in following the thread of
an argument. I did no more than comment on certain facts (or statements,
if you prefer) posted by someone else. So how can you fault me for not
posting "verifiable facts" when I was not even purporting to be doing
so.
>
> >==========================================
Richard G. Philllips
Harry Katz wrote:
>
> Richard G. Philllips whines:
>
> Before you accuse the then-Pope (Pius XII) of failing to speak
> out against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to
> first establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact
> taking place.
>
> is an accepted fact you are hardly in a position to fault the
> Catholic church (or any institution) of complicity in it.
>
> Mr. Phillips must be using a definition of the word "accepted" that
> has not made it into any of the standard dictionaries of the English
> language, yet. The facts of the Holocaust have been accepted by
> the overwhelming majority of bona fide historians.
Phillips
By bona fide historians, I take it you mean academic historians or
mainstream historians - OK? Well, it is true that the usual notions of
the Holocaust are accepted by the overwhelming majority of acamdemic
historians and there is a very good reason for it. If they did NOT
accept it and could not keep their beliefs to themselves, they would
very soon cease to BE academic historians - as quite a few have found to
their sorrow. Academs is not a cloistered institution apart from the
real world and dedicated to a Search for Truth. It is a very human
institution where power politics and intimidation are far from unknown.
=============================================
>
>
They have not been accepted by a tiny minority of crackpots, which
> includes Mr. Phillips as one of their shining lights.
=====================================================
PHillips
I have remarked before that Jews customarily resort to talk of that sort
whenever people say things that make them uncomfortable. They make a big
parade of being "logical" and "rational." The truth is that they are
nothing of the kind.
==================================================
ChuckF2323
Bullshit argument, Phillips. As usual!
CF
Yale F. Edeiken
> "Richard G. Philllips" <rgp...@earthlink.net> writes:
> Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> > A group which includes the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and, over the
> > past years, many of its most eloquent spokesman.
> > Totally untrue. The disappointment expressed is based -- with the admitted
> > failure of the Catholic Church as an institution to take some action -- on the
> > justification the Pope gave for this failure to act.
> Before you accuse the then-Pope (Pius XII) of failing to speak out
> against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to first
> establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact taking place.
Been there. Done that. And all I got was a "ZOG" t-shirt.
> This seems to be a topic of hot controversy on this NG. Until it is an
> accepted fact you are hardly in a position to fault the Catholic church
> (or any institution) of complicity in it.
Which I did not do. I stated that various members of the Catholic
hierarchy, including Pope John Paul II -- a man qualifed to speak both of the crimes
of the nazis and the position of the Catholic Church -- has made certain statements
including one in which he states that it is an obligation "to express profound regret
for the weaknesses of so many of her sons and daughters who sullied her face . . "
I think that it is perfectly fair to compare those sentiments to the contents of the
current statement.
Personally I have no differences with the facts stated in the recent
statement. I also agree with the statement as to the possible effects had Pope Pius
XII attempted a different course of conduct.
Richard G. Philllips
>
> > > Chuck Ferree wrote
> > > Phillips, you idiot, would the Pope and or any other Catholic Official
> > > recognize the Holocaust as historical facts, and acknowledge the role the
> > > Church should have played but failed to? Come on, Phillips, try a little
> > > harder.
>
> > this is apparently not the case, I will have to repeat myself: Pius XII
> > is being accused of failing to use his extremely high office to denounce
> > exterminations, when the historical FACT of those exterminations has yet
> > to be established -- indeed, it is very much in contention and in fact
> > that contention is the very raison d'etre of this NG.
>
> Catholic Church Pope Pius XII failed to use his high office to denouce the
> Holocaust. The controversy is over whether or not he should have.
======================================================================
Phillips
If the Catholic church is now admitting the factuality of the Holocaust,
it may be
because they genuinely believe that to be the case or it may be that
they realize that
it would be extremely impolitic for it to take any other position.
In any event, it settles nothing with me. I am interested only in
verifiable physical evidence.
For me it settles nothing what the Catholic church believes or what Yale
Edeiken believes or
what Steve Mock belives.
>
>
Yale F. Edeiken
> > Mr. Phillips must be using a definition of the word "accepted" that
> > has not made it into any of the standard dictionaries of the English
> > language, yet. The facts of the Holocaust have been accepted by
> > the overwhelming majority of bona fide historians.
> By bona fide historians, I take it you mean academic historians or
> mainstream historians - OK? Well, it is true that the usual notions of
> the Holocaust are accepted by the overwhelming majority of acamdemic
> historians
Wrong. It is accepted by ALL of them.
> and there is a very good reason for it. If they did NOT
> accept it and could not keep their beliefs to themselves, they would
> very soon cease to BE academic historians - as quite a few have found to
> their sorrow.
Name one.
> Academs is not a cloistered institution apart from the
> real world and dedicated to a Search for Truth. It is a very human
> institution where power politics and intimidation are far from unknown.
Where far more radical positions can be taken without fear of reprisal.
> They have not been accepted by a tiny minority of crackpots, which
> > includes Mr. Phillips as one of their shining lights.
> I have remarked before that Jews customarily resort to talk of that sort
> whenever people say things that make them uncomfortable. They make a big
> parade of being "logical" and "rational." The truth is that they are
> nothing of the kind.
An odd statement. People who believe in overwhelming evidence are
not being "logical" or "rational." Face it. Those who deny the Holocaust are
crackpots just as those who deny the effectiveness of modern medicine are
crackpots.
--YFE
visit the Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org
Yale F. Edeiken
> > Chuck Ferree wrote
> > Phillips, you idiot, would the Pope and or any other Catholic Official
> > recognize the Holocaust as historical facts, and acknowledge the role the
> > Church should have played but failed to? Come on, Phillips, try a little
> > harder.
> I like to think that I express myself in fairly lucid English but, since
> this is apparently not the case, I will have to repeat myself: Pius XII
> is being accused of failing to use his extremely high office to denounce
> exterminations, when the historical FACT of those exterminations has yet
> to be established -- indeed, it is very much in contention and in fact
> that contention is the very raison d'etre of this NG.
The try and conform to "fairly lucid English" the facts. According to the
Catholic Church Pope Pius XII failed to use his high office to denouce the
Holocaust. The controversy is over whether or not he should have.
--YFE
visit The Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org
Anonymous
>gao...@pitt.edu (Gwen A Orel) wrote:
>
> Anonymous (nob...@REPLAY.COM) wrote:
>
> : Well, perhaps we are reading different newspapers. The one I read
> : quotes David Blumenthal, professor of Jewish studies at Emory U. as having
> : said the Pope's document should have been "a call to penitence." Rabbi
> : David Goldsein of Touro Synagogue said the Church did go far enough
> : examining "its own role in the Holocaust." To suggest that the Church
> : played a role in the Holocaust and should feel penitent is nothing if not
> : bigotry.
>
> It's not bigotry at all to state that you feel a certain organization
> acted in a reprehensible way and should now apologize. At best you
> could say you find it unwarranted, but of course it's not bigotry.
> America-- as a government-- formally apologized not too long ago
> for the treatment of Japanese Americans during WWII. It was not bigotry
> that requested or prompted the apology, nor was it bigotry to
> criticize the American government of the present for its failure to
> acknowledge wrongdoings of the past government.
>
> You seem to think asking an organization to take responsibility
> for its past actions is bigotry. It isn't.
>
> Gwen
>
>
To suggest that the Catholic Church as an organization played a role
in the Holocaust is bigotry. Demanding an official apology from the
Catholic Church for the role it played in the Holocaust is an accusation
that the Catholic Church as an organization played a role in the
Holocaust. Perhaps you're right--bigotry may be too mild a term.
One poster recently posted some of the statements of church
officials expressing regret for the actions of some catholics. I
understand one of the bishops went so far as to agree that catholics
should repent. Most Catholics disagree with that position. Far too many
young Catholic lives were wasted in that foolish war.
The church leaders who made those statements failed to realize that
the normal human compassion is wasted on bigots, it can even be dangerous,
like trying to pet a snake.
One has to wonder what motives drive some Jewish leaders to demand more.
Anonymous
Harry Katz <Harry...@mci.com> wrote:
>Anonymous wrote:
>
> I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should
> apologize and repent for the part played by some Catholics in
> the Holocaust. Jewish groups expressed disapointment that the
> recent statement by the Pope failed to admit guilt on the part
> of the Catholic Church for war crimes, real or imagined,
> committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been Catholics,
There in no mistaking the bigotry in your post. Your claim that the
Church is responsible for actions of some individuals during the war
because of erroneous instructions on behavior reveals your deep hatred for
Catholicism, and your ignorance of the teachings of the Church. The
Church made no mistakes, institutional or otherwise, and has nothing to
apologize for; that was confirmed by its loyal members who showed their
courage in ways too numerous to list. Millions of brave young Catholics
died in that foolish war, many more Catholics than Jews, and your baseless
accusations against their church is a deliberate insult to them, as well
as to all living Catholics.
Harry Katz
Richard G. Philllips wrote:
Before you accuse the then-Pope (Pius XII) of failing to speak
out against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to
first establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact
taking place.
This seems to be a topic of hot controversy on this NG. Until it
is an accepted fact you are hardly in a position to fault the
Catholic church (or any institution) of complicity in it.
I responded:
Mr. Phillips must be using a definition of the word "accepted"
that has not made it into any of the standard dictionaries of
the English language, yet. The facts of the Holocaust have been
accepted by the overwhelming majority of bona fide historians.
In his latest post, Mr. Phillips opines:
By bona fide historians, I take it you mean academic historians
or mainstream historians - OK? Well, it is true that the usual
notions of the Holocaust are accepted by the overwhelming
majority of acamdemic historians and there is a very good reason
for it. If they did NOT accept it and could not keep their
beliefs to themselves, they would very soon cease to BE academic
historians - as quite a few have found to their sorrow.
"Quite a few!" So many, in fact, that Mr. Phillips cannot name
a single one! My personal observation is that racism and anti-Semitism
are tolerated and defended in tenured professors in the name of academic
freedom.
Academs is not a cloistered institution apart from the real
world and dedicated to a Search for Truth. It is a very human
institution where power politics and intimidation are far from
unknown.
Mr. Phillips' cynicism is not proof of anything more than his bile.
He believes with this verbal sleight-of-hand he can make the need
for solid evidence vanish in a puff of smoke. He has made a serious
charge, hoping that all of his bluster will divert attention from the
fact that he cannot present a single, solitary shred of evidence
to back up his slander.
My last post concluded:
They [the facts] have not been accepted by a tiny minority of
crackpots, which includes Mr. Phillips as one of their shining
lights.
Which leads Mr. Phillips to this brilliant observation:
I have remarked before that Jews customarily resort to talk of
that sort whenever people say things that make them
uncomfortable.
That is very true indeed. When people like Mr. Phillips post slanderous
lies, it does indeed make me "uncomfortable" and I do "resort to talk of
that sort," that is the sort that exposes the lies to the light of
truth.
They make a big parade of being "logical" and "rational." The
truth is that they are nothing of the kind.
The question is not whether or not Jews are logical, but whether or not
Mr. Phillips is logical. By the way he rapidly changed the subject
one might think he had misgivings.
--
Harry Katz
Harry Katz
Anonymous writes:
To suggest that the Catholic Church as an organization played a
role in the Holocaust is bigotry.
So, critically examining the role the Catholic Church has played in
history is now bigotry. I did not realize that the Catholic Church
is above question and beyond reproach.
--
Harry Katz
Yale F. Edeiken
> nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
> >gao...@pitt.edu (Gwen A Orel) wrote:
> > It's not bigotry at all to state that you feel a certain organization
> > acted in a reprehensible way and should now apologize. At best you
> > could say you find it unwarranted, but of course it's not bigotry.
> > America-- as a government-- formally apologized not too long ago
> > for the treatment of Japanese Americans during WWII. It was not bigotry
> > that requested or prompted the apology, nor was it bigotry to
> > criticize the American government of the present for its failure to
> > acknowledge wrongdoings of the past government.
> > You seem to think asking an organization to take responsibility
> > for its past actions is bigotry. It isn't.
> To suggest that the Catholic Church as an organization played a role
> in the Holocaust is bigotry.
Wrong. it is just erroroneous.
> Demanding an official apology from the
> Catholic Church for the role it played in the Holocaust is an accusation
> that the Catholic Church as an organization played a role in the
> Holocaust.
Wrong. Noone has made that suggestion.
> One poster recently posted some of the statements of church
> officials expressing regret for the actions of some catholics.
Read them again.
> I understand one of the bishops went so far as to agree that catholics
> should repent.
Read them again.
> Most Catholics disagree with that position.
On one side in describing the Catholic position we have:
Pope John XXIII
Pope Jon Paul II
John Cardinal Bernadin
The Congress of German Bishops
The Vatican II Council
On the other side we have:
you and a gaggle of fruitcakes
Any guesses as to who has credibility?
> The church leaders who made those statements failed to realize that
> the normal human compassion is wasted on bigots, it can even be
> dangerous, like trying to pet a snake.
Good. I won't waste any on you.
> One has to wonder what motives drive some Jewish leaders to demand more.
Maybe an explanation on why the Catholic Church which
claims to be a moral leader chose expediency over morality when put to the test
as they claimed in their recent statement.
Yale F. Edeiken
> nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
> Harry Katz <Harry...@mci.com> wrote:
> >No, that is not true. The Catholic Church need only apologize for
> >its own institutional mistakes, not for its individual members. The
> >only obligation the Church has to its members is to instruct them
> >not to behave in the future as they were erroneously instructed to
> >behave in the past.
> >Mr. Anonymous ought not to mistake his own confusion for bigotry
> >in others.
> There in no mistaking the bigotry in your post. Your claim that the
> Church is responsible for actions of some individuals
The Pope is not just an "individual." He is the official representative and
head of the Catholic Church.
> during the war
> because of erroneous instructions on behavior reveals your deep hatred for
> Catholicism, and your ignorance of the teachings of the Church. The
> Church made no mistakes, institutional or otherwise, and has nothing to
> apologize for; that was confirmed by its loyal members who showed their
> courage in ways too numerous to list. Millions of brave young Catholics
> died in that foolish war, many more Catholics than Jews, and your baseless
> accusations against their church is a deliberate insult to them, as well
> as to all living Catholics.
And you utter misrepresentation of the position of the Catholic Church is
an insult to all Catholics.
--YFE
visit the Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org
Harry Katz
Anonymous writes:
There in no mistaking the bigotry in your post.
There is no mistking that Mr. Anonymous is intent on picking a quarrel
with me.
Your claim that the Church is responsible for actions of some
individuals during the war because of erroneous instructions on
behavior reveals your deep hatred for Catholicism, and your
ignorance of the teachings of the Church.
I will grant that I may ignorant of specific Church teachings, and if
the Church never taught anything wrong I certainly applaud them. If
I did not make myself clear in my last post, I did not mean to imply
that the Church had issued erroneous instructions. What I meant was
that I did not hold individual Catholics responsible if they were
led astray by Church doctrine. It is interesting that Mr. Anonymous
seized on my defense of individual Catholics and twisted it around
to fit his preconceived notion of my supposed bigotry. This does not
reveal any "deep hatred" of Catholicism on my part, but a deep hatred
of Jews on the part of Mr. Anonymous.
The Church made no mistakes, institutional or otherwise, and has
nothing to apologize for;...
That I do not agree with. Even if the Church did not instruct its
members erroneously, the hierarchy did ignore what was going on
under the very nose of the pope.
...that was confirmed by its loyal members who showed their courage in
ways too numerous to list. Millions of brave young
Catholics died in that foolish war, many more Catholics than
Jews,...
I am surprised that Mr. Anonymous does not use the obvious argument,
that many brave Catholics, young and old, risked their lives to help
save Jews from the Nazi slaughter, and many of these are memorialized
at Yad VaShem in Israel.
...and your baseless accusations against their church is a
deliberate insult to them, as well as to all living Catholics.
Some of my best friends are Catholic and none of them are insulted.
--
Harry Katz
Yale F. Edeiken
> > > I like to think that I express myself in fairly lucid English but, since
> > > this is apparently not the case, I will have to repeat myself: Pius XII
> > > is being accused of failing to use his extremely high office to denounce
> > > exterminations, when the historical FACT of those exterminations has yet
> > > to be established -- indeed, it is very much in contention and in fact
> > > that contention is the very raison d'etre of this NG.
> > The try and conform to "fairly lucid English" the facts. According to the
> > Catholic Church Pope Pius XII failed to use his high office to denouce the
> > Holocaust. The controversy is over whether or not he should have.
> If the Catholic church is now admitting the factuality of the Holocaust,
"Now" thay have been for decades. cf Vatican II
> it may be
> because they genuinely believe that to be the case or it may be that
> they realize that it would be extremely impolitic for it to take any other position.
Odd that they would chose to avoid the "politically impolitic" choice by
making a statement that was politically impolotic.
> In any event, it settles nothing with me. I am interested only in
> verifiable physical evidence.
But you rejet it whenever it is presented.
--YFE
visit The Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org
Susan Cohen
dmitry pruss wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 19:02:43 GMT, w...@dot.com (WFF) wrote:
>
> )In article <35266C20...@netvision.net.il>, JD S <roc...@netvision.net.il>
> wrote:
> )>Richard G. Philllips wrote:
> )>>
> )>> Poul A. Costinsky wrote:
> )>> >
> )>> > dmitry pruss(pr...@helix.nih.guv) wrote
> )>> > in article <3525d138...@helix.nih.guv>
> )>> > |On Fri, 03 Apr 1998 04:46:56 GMT, nation...@hotmail.com (Lenny )
> )> wrote:
> )>> > |) This is obvious, but I wanted to post it as a warning. The jews,
> )>> > |)especially the talmudic ones , crave the blood of christians. They are
> )>> > |)truly evil!
> )>> >
> )>> > Since it's no chance to convince this complete idiotic ignorant
> )>> > moron, let's have fun!
> )>> >
> )>> > |)In October of 1955 four White children, two young boys who were brothers
> )>> > |)and two teenaged sisters, were abducted and murdered in a manner which
> )> was
> )>> > |)suggestive of Jewish ritual sacrifice, the liturgical object of which is
> )> to
> )>> > |)obtain Gentile blood to mix with the matzoh used in several esoteric
> )> Jewish
> )>> > |)religious ceremonies such as Purim, Passover, and Kol Nidre at Yom
> )> Kippur.
> )>> >
> )>> > The previous generation of anti-Semith liars was less ignorant
> )>> > boneheads. They at least knew that Jews don't use matzoh at
> )>> > these holidays except Pesakh. Which happens at spring.
> )>>
> )>> =========================================
> )>> Phillips
> )>>
> )>> Am I to take it, then, that those four children are somehow less dead
> )>> for this reason.
> )>
> )>You are to take it that these hate-mongers anti-Semites are lying.
> )
> )Oy Vey!!!!! Do you know this to be fact?
>
> Of course not. The vile mongrel kike doesn't even deny the
> ritualistic murder of CHRISTIAN children by his inbred kindred.
Excuse me, Mr. Know-It-All, but it's the KKKristians who are inbred. In some US
States, a marriage isn't valid if the couple aren't at least first cousins. (And the
phrase "hate-mongers anti-Semites are lying" IS A DENIAL, you illiterate bonehead!)
Susan Cohen
Richard G. Philllips wrote:
> Joseph Hertzlinger wrote:
> >
> > Richard G. Philllips wrote:
> >
> > > Am I to take it, then, that those four children are somehow less dead
> > > for this reason.
> >
> > You are to take it that those four children are either imaginary or
> > dead from some other cause.
>
> ======================================================
> Phillips
>
> Back off, friend. I'll take it the way I choose to take it.
Then why did you ask how you were supposed to take it? Please make up your
mind, or admit that it just doesn't function properly
> There would
> appear to be certain facts in this case that can neither be laughed
> away, ridiculed away.
Yes - the fact that people would revive such ancient, long-ago-disproved lies
about Jews, & that others would be either ignorant or hate-filled enough (or
both) to instantly believe them.
> Whether or not they are palatable to you is
> immaterial.
And do you recognize that the same goes for you, re the actual truth?
Susan Cohen
Alexander Baron wrote:
> In article <MPG.f91bf557...@news.netvision.net.il>
> po...@earthling.net.NOSPAM.PLEASE "Poul A. Costinsky" writes:
>
> >it's written in old Testament,
> > that Jews are forbidden to murder; to eat blood;
> > it gives exact recipe of matzoh. Is this enough to
> > disprove?
>
> Great, then no Jew has ever committed murder.
Trust you to deliberately overlook the fact that the made-up murders were
supposed to be so that we could incorproare the blood into our matzahs - which
would be ridiculous in light of the fact that that we are enjoined from ever
incorporating blood into any part of our diet! it has nothing to do with
following extant rules ("Thou shalt not murder"), it has to do with common
sense - hence you missing it.
> > If you need a literature on subject, you can take a look
> > in your library.
> >
> > But you know what? I'm not going to prove one more time
> > in all these centuries that Jews don't do it. If you are
> > able to believe this crap, nothing could probably convince you.
> > Just don't tell anybody about your this perversion - you
> > can finish in mental institution.
> >
> > |You ask me: can I really believe that such things are possible in the
> > |20th century, our modern, enlightened 20th century. Well, for a century
> > |that gave us Stalin and Mao-Tse-tung, I don't see ritual murder as being
> > |any great problem. Moreover there are believed to have been cases of
> > |this throughout the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries.
> >
>
> Actually there was a well documented case in Mexico the other week of a
> group of Mexicans who are serving time for Satanic ritual murder. The big
> difference is that I don't see Mexicans screaming all over the Internet and
> everywhere else that it is impossible.
I guess that's because you're talking about a subset of an ethnic group, as
opposed to an entire religion. The correct analogy - which you doubtless know,
but are deliberately missing - would be for all the *Satanists* to be screaming
all over the Internet that it is impossible. But since "Satanism" delights in
these sorts of things, no, you aren't going to see it.
You'll really have to do better than this.
>
>
> --
>
> Alexander Baron,
> 93c Venner Road,
> Sydenham,
> London SE26 5HU.
> England.
> +44 (0)181 659 7713
> E-Mail A_B...@ABaron.Demon.Co.UK
>
> "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
> the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy
Susan Cohen
Alexander Baron wrote:
> In article <3528DA67...@netvision.net.il>
> roc...@netvision.net.il "JD S" writes:
>
> > Alexander Baron wrote:
>
> > You also don't see anti-Mexicans preaching that Satanic ritual murder is part
> > of the Mexican culture, something they do on a daily basis and is unique to
> > them. So what's your point ?
>
> The reason you don't see this is because the Mexicans wouldn't scream as loudly
> as the Jews, but then does anyone?
I guess that's because no one else needs to do so. But you already knew that.
Susan Cohen
Richard G. Philllips wrote:
> Joseph Hertzlinger wrote:
> >
> > In <352706...@earthlink.net> "Richard G. Philllips"
> > <rgp...@earthlink.net> writes:
> >
> > >The belief in the factuality of Jewish ritual murder is something
> > >deeply ingrained in the consciousness of Western man - has been for
> > >many centuries. This belief was the basis for their expulsion from
> > >England in 1290 and from Spain in 1492. It was also the reason for the
> > >numerous and violetn anti-Jewish outbreaks throughout the Middle ages
> > >and in the succeeding centuries.
> >
> > Would you care to explain why it wasn't noticed until 1144?
> >
> > Would you care to explain why it was only noticed by European
> > Christians?
> >
> > It wasn't noticed by Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, or
> > Christians in the Byzantine Empire.
>
> ============================================
> Phillips
>
> For obvious reasons, historical records of Jewish ritual Murder (to the
> extent that they exist) are not readily available today.
Yes, the *most* obvious reason being that it is a lie, perpetrated by
Jew-hating bigots.
> This is not
> proof that they never existed.
No - Jew-hating bigots have been making up garbage like this for a long time,
so the records of it do exist.
> to uncover them would be a very
> demanding job of scholarly research.
Yes - Jew-hating bigots try very hard to make sure people can't find out that
what they claim to be ancient Jewish writings are actually more recent
Jew-hating bigot writings - rather like the famed piece of stupidity,
"Protocols of the Elders of Zion."
> ==============================================
> >
> > Is this a case where only European Christians had eyes? Or is it a case
> > where someone in 1144 invented a rumor? How many times has someone made
> > such a claim in the absence of hearing the rumor first?
> >
> > BTW, I have read of a Christian Ritual Murder accusation in a Third
> > World country. (In 1144, Western Europe was Third World.)
Susan Cohen
Richard G. Philllips wrote:
> Scoop wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dick, since you are alleging that Jews have routinely engaged in ritual
> > murder throughout our long history, it is incumbent upon you to provide
> > proof of your assertion. Your questions above do not meet that standard,
> > since you stated that the reasons are obvious why no records exist then
> > failed to address what those reasons are. Quite the opposite, you show just
> > how desperate you are to rationalize your Jew-hatred.
> >
> > Of course, the reason that the records don't exist *is* obvious -- the
> > events that you describe simply didn't happen.
> >
> > Until you can prove that they did, kindly remove yourself from the Usenet
> > community before you make a bigger ass of yourself than you have. Your
> > employer may well read this newsgroup, you know.
>
> =============================================================
> Phillips
>
> (1) Since you are very serious about this question, I think you should
> reply to a posting by Harold Covington who knows far more about the
> matter than I ever will and who went into the matter in far more detail
> than I ever could.
1) Since you are serious about this, I suggest that you do as the poster asks,
rather than pass the buck to another one of your lying bigoted buddies.
> (2) The thread began with an account of events having to do with a
> suspected case of ritual murder in Chicago in 1955. I am not the
> originator of that account but i did volunteer this: IF those facts are
> as they are claimed, then most certainly, taken together, they are
> highly suggestive of ritual murder.
2) So what you're saying is, there's no proof, but you believe it. Okay...
> (3) So far no one has flatly denied that account.
Actually, a number of us have, thank you. Would you like to hear it again?
IT'S A LIE! IT'S JUST ANOTHER IN A SERIES OF LIES THAT JEW-HATING BIGOTS HAVE
BEEN TRYING TO PASS AS TRUTH FOR GENERATIONS, NOW! IT'S ALL A LIE!
(Have you neverheard of innocent until proven guilty? Or are you jsut
deliberately ignoring it?)
> (4) I am challenged to explain why (a) We have no accounts of ritual
> murder prior to 1144 and (b) We have no accounts of it outside of
> Europe. I have two replies to that:
4) You have no answer, no knowledge, & no facts, & a ) are proving yourself to be
the idiot we all think you are. b) Thanks.
>
>
> (a) It is not an established fact that there ARE no such accounts.
> Harold Covington (who knows far more than I do) insists that there are.
a) So you have no idea what you're talking about, & are passing the buck. Okay.
> (b) to investigate the matter would be a task of scholarship for which i
> do not have the training, much less the time.
b) ditto.
> (5) "Until you can prove that they did, kindly remove yourself from the
> Usenet
> > community before you make a bigger ass of yourself than you have."
>
> It is well known that liberals and Jews have a penchant for hyperbole of
> that sort.
It is well known that fascists & bigots have a penchant for braod-sweeping
generalizations which have no basis in fact, such as the foregoing.
> It reveals far more about the author than it does about the
> person referred to.
Yes, it does. <snicker>
Susan Cohen
Richard G. Philllips wrote:
> Scoop wrote:
> >
> > Quoth Richard G. Philllips:
> > : Scoop wrote:
> > : >
> > : >
> > : > Dick, since you are alleging that Jews have routinely engaged in ritual
> > : > murder throughout our long history, it is incumbent upon you to provide
> > : > proof of your assertion.
>
> ===========================================
> Phillips
>
> I have never alleged and I do not believe that Jews ROUTINELY commit
> ritual murder. I am inclined to believe that it has happened but is a
> rare thing and certainly not indulged in by the generality of Jews.
Already beginning to back-pedal, huh? Figures.
> After reading covington's original post about the ocurrences in Chicago
> in 1955,
> I did no more than say that the circumstances, taken as a whole, were
> highly suggestive of ritual murder.
> ===========================================
You really should just get out now, before you make a complete fool of
yourself.Oh, wait a minute - someone else tried this friendly advice ----
> > : (5) "Until you can prove that they did, kindly remove yourself from the
> > : Usenet
> > : > community before you make a bigger ass of yourself than you have."
> > :
> ====================================================
> Phillips (previous)
>
> > : It is well known that liberals and Jews have a penchant for hyperbole of
> > : that sort. It reveals far more about the author than it does about the
> > : person referred to.
> ===================================================
> >
> > All that it reveals about me is my opinion that you're a spineless, lying
> > buffoon.
> ===========================================
> PHillips
>
> See what I mean?
> =====================
You totally missed the hypocrisy in your statement, didn't you? A guy insults you
- just you - & you say it "proves" your broad, sweeping - thus HYPERBOLIC -
statement about two groups of people being hyperbolic.
ROTFL!
Richard G. Philllips
>
> > > > I like to think that I express myself in fairly lucid English but, since
> > > > this is apparently not the case, I will have to repeat myself: Pius XII
> > > > is being accused of failing to use his extremely high office to denounce
> > > > exterminations, when the historical FACT of those exterminations has yet
> > > > to be established -- indeed, it is very much in contention and in fact
> > > > that contention is the very raison d'etre of this NG.
>
> > > The try and conform to "fairly lucid English" the facts. According to the
> > > Catholic Church Pope Pius XII failed to use his high office to denouce the
> > > Holocaust. The controversy is over whether or not he should have.
>
> > If the Catholic church is now admitting the factuality of the Holocaust,
>
> "Now" thay have been for decades. cf Vatican II
>
> > it may be
> > because they genuinely believe that to be the case or it may be that
> > they realize that it would be extremely impolitic for it to take any other position.
[Yale]>
> making a statement that was politically impolotic.
====================================================
PHillips
The only thing that was "politically impolitic" or "politically
incorrect" about the Pope's statement is that it did not go quite far
ENOUGH in satisfying
Jews' never-ending and insatiable demands for self-abasement in
non-Jews.
("We have suffered; you are guilty; you must not only apologize but must
be forever ashamed of yourselves. We can neither forgive nor forget.")
WebSurfer
In article <352DA1F0...@smart.net>, ze...@smart.net had the temerity to
say...
>dmitry pruss wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 19:02:43 GMT, w...@dot.com (WFF) wrote:
>> )In article <35266C20...@netvision.net.il>, JD S
<roc...@netvision.net.il>
>> wrote:
>> )>Richard G. Philllips wrote:
>> )>> Poul A. Costinsky wrote:
>> )>> > dmitry pruss(pr...@helix.nih.guv) wrote
>> )>> > in article <3525d138...@helix.nih.guv>
>> )>> > |On Fri, 03 Apr 1998 04:46:56 GMT, nation...@hotmail.com (Lenny
>> )> wrote:
[SNIP]
>> )>You are to take it that these hate-mongers anti-Semites are lying.
>> )
>> )Oy Vey!!!!! Do you know this to be fact?
>>
>> Of course not. The vile mongrel kike doesn't even deny the
>> ritualistic murder of CHRISTIAN children by his inbred kindred.
>
>Excuse me, Mr. Know-It-All, but it's the KKKristians who are inbred. In some
US
>States, a marriage isn't valid if the couple aren't at least first cousins.
(And the
>phrase "hate-mongers anti-Semites are lying" IS A DENIAL, you illiterate
bonehead!)
>
Shame, shame, shame on YOU Susan Cohen!!!
Why would you say such vicious things about all Christians!
Are you an anti-christian bigot?
I am sure you call for "religious tolerance" but do not practice it
yourself. This is called being "two-faced" in case you do not
comprehend the concept.
Richard G. Philllips
Harry Katz wrote:
>
> Richard G. Philllips wrote:
>
> out against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to
> first establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact
> taking place.
>
> This seems to be a topic of hot controversy on this NG. Until it
> is an accepted fact you are hardly in a position to fault the
> Catholic church (or any institution) of complicity in it.
>
> I responded:
>
> Mr. Phillips must be using a definition of the word "accepted"
> that has not made it into any of the standard dictionaries of
> the English language, yet. The facts of the Holocaust have been
> accepted by the overwhelming majority of bona fide historians.
>
> In his latest post, Mr. Phillips opines:
>
> By bona fide historians, I take it you mean academic historians
> or mainstream historians - OK? Well, it is true that the usual
> notions of the Holocaust are accepted by the overwhelming
> majority of acamdemic historians and there is a very good reason
> for it. If they did NOT accept it and could not keep their
> beliefs to themselves, they would very soon cease to BE academic
> historians - as quite a few have found to their sorrow.
>
> "Quite a few!" So many, in fact, that Mr. Phillips cannot name
> a single one!
Philllips
HOw many (alleged) victims of gassing at Auschwitz can YOU name?
=======================================================
My personal observation is that racism and anti-Semitism
> are tolerated and defended in tenured professors in the name of academic
> freedom.
=================================================
Phillips
In a few isolated cases, possibly; in general, no. For example, I
imagine that such views would be tolerated at the Bob Junes University
in North Carolina (where Jews are not so much as admitted) but,
generally speaking, I would say no.
================================================================
>
> Academs is not a cloistered institution apart from the real
> world and dedicated to a Search for Truth. It is a very human
> institution where power politics and intimidation are far from
> unknown.
>
> Mr. Phillips' cynicism is not proof of anything more than his bile.
> He believes with this verbal sleight-of-hand he can make the need
> for solid evidence vanish in a puff of smoke. He has made a serious
> charge, hoping that all of his bluster will divert attention from the
> fact that he cannot present a single, solitary shred of evidence
> to back up his slander.
============================================================
Phillips
Slander, Phillips' "bile," indeed?
Dear Friend Katz:
Are you denying that university professors have frequently been denied
tenure and even fired for holding racist or anti-Jewish views, thus
creating an atmosphere where professors quickly realize that they had
better toe the establishment line?
--If you are merely PRETENDING to doubt this, then I must accuse you of
being less than truthful.
--If you GENUINELY doubt this, then I would have to accuse you of just
not knowing how the world runs.
I would add one more thing. Speaking generally, the Jews would be
better served by backing off just a bit in their arrogance and
self-righteousness, by occasionally admitting the possibility that
someone who bad-mouths them just might be coming from an honest place.
You would be better served by seriously looking into the question of
just WHY it is that, in the course of your history, you have been
expelled from just about every European country, duchy, principality in
which you have ever lived. And when I say "seriously" looking into the
matter, I am not talking about the writing of silly books on the "root
causes of anti-Semitism" whose only purpose is to cut your opponents
down to size.
===========================================
>
> My last post concluded:
>
> They [the facts] have not been accepted by a tiny minority of
> crackpots, which includes Mr. Phillips as one of their shining
> lights.
>
> Which leads Mr. Phillips to this brilliant observation:
>
> I have remarked before that Jews customarily resort to talk of
> that sort whenever people say things that make them
> uncomfortable.
>
> That is very true indeed. When people like Mr. Phillips post slanderous
> lies, it does indeed make me "uncomfortable" and I do "resort to talk of
> that sort," that is the sort that exposes the lies to the light of
> truth.
===============================================
Phillips
Can you cite any posting of mine which you feel is a deliberate lie? If
you can, then I will certainly apologize for it.
=========================================================
>
Gwen A Orel
Anonymous (nob...@REPLAY.COM) wrote:
: To suggest that the Catholic Church as an organization played a role
: in the Holocaust is bigotry. Demanding an official apology from the
: Catholic Church for the role it played in the Holocaust is an accusation
: that the Catholic Church as an organization played a role in the
: Holocaust. Perhaps you're right--bigotry may be too mild a term.
You must be using a private definition of bigotry, then, because it
isn't/ One more time: it may be unwarranted. But the church as an
institution can institute policies. Are you unable to distinguish
between Catholic theology and the Catholic Church? The Catholic
Church has over the years been expressly and overtly political, and
to criticize its political actions is not bigotry.
: The church leaders who made those statements failed to realize that
: the normal human compassion is wasted on bigots, it can even be dangerous,
: like trying to pet a snake.
:
: One has to wonder what motives drive some Jewish leaders to demand more.
The "motives" are on the Catholic side, and what they regret is *not*
the lives lost fighting, but the failure, specifically, to speak out
against the Holocaust.
Gwen
--
"Live as one already dead." --Japanese saying
If one tells the truth one is sure, sooner or later, to be found out.
--Oscar Wilde
Richard G. Philllips
Gwen A Orel wrote:
>
> Anonymous (nob...@REPLAY.COM) wrote:
>
> : To suggest that the Catholic Church as an organization played a role
> : in the Holocaust is bigotry. Demanding an official apology from the
> : Catholic Church for the role it played in the Holocaust is an accusation
> : that the Catholic Church as an organization played a role in the
> : Holocaust. Perhaps you're right--bigotry may be too mild a term.
>
> You must be using a private definition of bigotry, then, because it
> isn't/ One more time: it may be unwarranted. But the church as an
> institution can institute policies. Are you unable to distinguish
> between Catholic theology and the Catholic Church? The Catholic
> Church has over the years been expressly and overtly political, and
> to criticize its political actions is not bigotry.
>
> : The church leaders who made those statements failed to realize that
> : the normal human compassion is wasted on bigots, it can even be dangerous,
> : like trying to pet a snake.
> :
> : One has to wonder what motives drive some Jewish leaders to demand more.
Phillips
It is a simple question of moral clout. The Jews have set themselves
pretty much at odds with the Western world, generally
--with Germany, for obvious reasons
--with Austria, ditto
--With Switzerland because they did not terminate all business
connections with wartime Germany
--With Eastern Europe for its undoubted German sympathies
--With the Catholic Church for its insufficiently loud mea culpa's
--With America for not taking in all of the Jewish refugees clamoring at
its door (as if they had an inherent human RIGHT to enter America)
All are "guilty" and all must forever walk the earth with their heads
bowed in shame.
=================================================================
>
>
Richard G. Philllips
Alan Hecht wrote:
>
> "Richard G. Philllips" (rgp...@earthlink.net) writes:
> > Scoop wrote:
> >
> > (3) So far no one has flatly denied that account.
> >
>
> either. The account could only be flatly denied if Mr. Covington revealed
> where--other than _Getting away with murder_, which does not remotely
> support anything he said except that these ppl were murdered, and that a
> Packard may have been involved--he got his information.
=========================================
Phillips
OK. If you insist that Covington verify his sources, then demand it of
him - not of me.
I did not supply the article.
===============================================================
Gord McFee
On 9 Apr 1998 03:58:31 GMT, gao...@pitt.edu (Gwen A Orel) wrote:
> There is a difference in acts committed by individuals in violation
> of the organizations to which they belong and acts taken officialy
> by organizations. For example, "America" was involved in Vietnam,
> not a bunch of random Americans acting on their own. It is quite right
> to criticize "America," but one may be mistaken with regard to individual
> Americans.
>
> Similarly, criticizing the Catholic church for its actions is in no
> way a criticism of every Catholic. And vice versa: the fact that
> some priests have molested altar boys in no way makes it part of
> Catholic theology for priests to molest altar boys.
>
> this is a crucial point which you cannot seem to grasp.
As critical as I have been of the Church for its relative inaction in
respect of the Holocaust (and I should point out that I am Catholic), I
think a couple of points need to be made.
First, the statement by Pope John Paul was an accurate description of
the failings of many Catholics (and many Christians for that matter) and
makes it clear that their participation in the acts of the Holocaust was
wrong, immoral and painful to the ideal that every Christian should have
- to imitate Christ. At the same time, inaction was also wrong.
Coupled with an unfettered apology for those failings, it should be
accepted as that.
That being said, it would be unfair, and inaccurate, to lump all
Catholics together and assign blame to every Catholic. The failings of
a single Pope, real and imagined, do not impugn the entire Church, and I
wonder what anyone else would have done in the same situation. The
Church as an institution bears guilt for having failed in its Christian
duty, and I believe that is what the Pope was trying to address. I
would be interested to know how many other institutions, equally or more
"guilty" have apologized.
While in no way trying to minimize or explain away the failings of the
Church during the Holocaust, we would be well-advised to remember that
other institutions and countries and assemblies sat idly by as Jews were
murdered in the millions. Many others participated in the massacres,
and otherwise aided and abetted the Nazis. No one is guiltless in this
case, and we should avoid the temptation to find scapegoats rather than
face up to our own failings.
I believe it would be a bit much to expect the current Pope to publicly
condemn Pope Pius XII, who although far too inactive (and I have been
one of his most severe critics), nonetheless faced a situation that I
hope never to face. I shall not cast the first stone.
[rest deleted]
--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time
Visit the Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org
Gord McFee
On 9 Apr 1998 04:01:29 GMT, gao...@pitt.edu (Gwen A Orel) wrote:
> It's not bigotry at all to state that you feel a certain organization
> acted in a reprehensible way and should now apologize. At best you
> could say you find it unwarranted, but of course it's not bigotry.
> America-- as a government-- formally apologized not too long ago
> for the treatment of Japanese Americans during WWII. It was not bigotry
> that requested or prompted the apology, nor was it bigotry to
> criticize the American government of the present for its failure to
> acknowledge wrongdoings of the past government.
>
> You seem to think asking an organization to take responsibility
> for its past actions is bigotry. It isn't.
I agree completely. I wonder though if America and Britain and France
and Canada and many other countries have apologized for their refusal to
admit so many desperate Jewish refugees prior to and at the beginning of
the War?
Gord McFee
On Thu, 09 Apr 1998 09:30:05 -0400, "Richard G. Philllips"
<rgp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> >
> > > nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
> > > I see posts everywhere suggesting that Catholics should apologize and
> > > repent for the part played by some Catholics in the Holocaust.
> >
> > A group which includes the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and, over the
> > past years, many of its most eloquent spokesman.
> >
> > > Jewish
> > > groups expressed dissapointment that the recent statement by the Pope
> > > failed to admit guilt on the part of the Catholic Church for war crimes,
> > > real or imagined, committed by the Nazis, some of whom may have been
> > > Catholics, during WWII.
> >
> > Totally untrue. The disappointment expressed is based -- with the admitted
> > failure of the Catholic Church as an institution to take some action -- on the
> > justification the Pope gave for this failure to act.
> Phillips
>
> Before you accuse the then-Pope (Pius XII) of failing to speak out
> against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to first
> establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact taking place.
Mr. Phillips, the Pope was aware that the exterminations were taking
place.
Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare
Ancient Germanic mysticism...?
On Thu, 09 Apr 1998 01:48:31 GMT, ber...@solvangpastries.com (Gunter
Bergman) wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 18:48:09 GMT, jiha...@anus.com (Hessian Studies Department of Unholy Warfare) spewed forth:
>
>How?
>
>-->
>-->Someone else do it.
>-->
>-->On 8 Apr 1998 02:43:52 GMT, "Bigmouth" <nou...@all.but.a> wrote:
>-->
>-->>
>-->>
>-->>Gloria Konsler <gkon...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
>-->><01bd6257$1b449c40$9e0c...@gkonsler.earthlink.net>...
>-->>> Would you folks please be so kind as to remove the rec.arts.disney.parks
>-->>> from the "reply to" newsgroup list if you choose to reply to this thread.
>-->>
>-->>> It has no relevance to that particular newsgroup. Thanks so much.
>-->>
>-->>You heard the little lady. Next one to followup to this thread, be sure to
>-->>remove the rec.arts.disney.parks from the "reply to" newsgroup list.
>-->>
>-->>
>-->>
>-->>> Gloria in Michigan
>-->>> ...Intelligence is like a river...
>-->>> the deeper it is, the less noise it makes...
>-->>>
>-->>>
>-->>> WFF <w...@dot.com> wrote in article <6gdj84$o...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>...
>-->>> > In article <352996E2...@enteract.com>, ant0n <an...@enteract.com>
>-->>> wrote:
>-->>> > >
>-->>> > >
>-->>> > >WFF wrote:
>-->>> > >
>-->>> > >> That takes an above average IQ???? GEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZ .... guess,
>-->>it
>-->>> depends
>-->>> > >> from where on da "Bell Curve" you are looking at it from!!!!
>-->>> DUMBASS!!!!!
>-->>> > >> WFF
>-->>> > >
>-->>> > >No, it doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about. What does
>-->>that
>-->>> make
>-->>> > > you?
>-->>> > >
>-->>> > >Andrzej Borowiec
>-->>> > >
>-->>> > A little less mouth and a little more logic please, Mr. Andrzej
>-->>> > Nostrilitis Borowiec! You're acting like a walking, talking
>-->>"stereotype"!
>-->>> Loud
>-->>> > noises & NO brains don't get it here! hahahahaha
>-->>> >
>-->>>
>-->
>-->
>-->Jihad 666 @ anus.com "The devil is no man
>-->Free humanity from deception And no man's friend"
>-->Knowledge uber alles! - Lt. Jack Sharp
>-->
>--> <http://www.anus.com/metal/> metal music
>--> <http://www.kcuf.org/> metal radio
>--> <http://www.sodomy.org/> sodomy
>--> <http://www.blackplague/holocaust/> xian86
>-->
>-->"One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a
>--> statistic." - Joseph Stalin
>
Jihad 666 @ anus.com "The devil is no man
Free humanity from deception And no man's friend"
Knowledge uber alles! - Lt. Jack Sharp
<http://www.anus.com/metal/> metal music
<http://www.kcuf.org/> metal radio
<http://www.sodomy.org/> sodomy
<http://www.blackplague/holocaust/> xian86
>Have you ever done something innovative in the
>fields of philosophy or religion ???
>
>Nope. Except reject it. I've got my hands full with
>web meanderings, doomed musical projects, tragically
>brilliant inventions, and titties.
- GORTICIAN in <6gh61j$g...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>
Richard G. Philllips
Gord McFee wrote:
>
> On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:21:48 -0400, "Richard G. Philllips"
> <rgp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Harry Katz wrote:
> > >
> > > Richard G. Philllips wrote:
> > >
> > > out against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to
> > > first establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact
> > > taking place.
> > >
> > > is an accepted fact you are hardly in a position to fault the
> > > Catholic church (or any institution) of complicity in it.
> > >
> > > I responded:
> > >
> > > Mr. Phillips must be using a definition of the word "accepted"
> > > that has not made it into any of the standard dictionaries of
> > > the English language, yet. The facts of the Holocaust have been
> > > accepted by the overwhelming majority of bona fide historians.
> > >
> > > In his latest post, Mr. Phillips opines:
> > >
> > > By bona fide historians, I take it you mean academic historians
> > > or mainstream historians - OK? Well, it is true that the usual
> > > notions of the Holocaust are accepted by the overwhelming
> > > majority of acamdemic historians and there is a very good reason
> > > for it. If they did NOT accept it and could not keep their
> > > beliefs to themselves, they would very soon cease to BE academic
> > > historians - as quite a few have found to their sorrow.
> > >
> > > "Quite a few!" So many, in fact, that Mr. Phillips cannot name
> > > a single one!
> > =============================================
> > Philllips
> >
> > HOw many (alleged) victims of gassing at Auschwitz can YOU name?
>
> bona fide historians who do not accept the "usual notions" of the
> Holocaust. Since you brought up the subject, you may go first.
>
> [deleted]
>
> > Dear Friend Katz:
> >
> > Are you denying that university professors have frequently been denied
> > tenure and even fired for holding racist or anti-Jewish views, thus
> > creating an atmosphere where professors quickly realize that they had
> > better toe the establishment line?
>
>
> > --If you are merely PRETENDING to doubt this, then I must accuse you of
> > being less than truthful.
> >
> > --If you GENUINELY doubt this, then I would have to accuse you of just
> > not knowing how the world runs.
>
> nothing.
>
> > I would add one more thing. Speaking generally, the Jews would be
> > better served by backing off just a bit in their arrogance and
> > self-righteousness, by occasionally admitting the possibility that
> > someone who bad-mouths them just might be coming from an honest place.
>
> quickly.
>
> > You would be better served by seriously looking into the question of
> > just WHY it is that, in the course of your history, you have been
> > expelled from just about every European country, duchy, principality in
> > which you have ever lived.
>
=====================================================
Phillips
I have seen the list. It even includes Norway - which was a surprise to
me.
==================================================================
>
> > And when I say "seriously" looking into the
> > matter, I am not talking about the writing of silly books on the "root
> > causes of anti-Semitism" whose only purpose is to cut your opponents
> > down to size.
>
> I suppose the Jews should come to their masters - you and your ilk - and
> beg forgiveness for your antisemitism? Since Mr. Katz is too refined to
> answer such a statement in language you understand, allow me to take his
> place.
===============================
Phillips
No. I ask only that they be good Americans.
============================
>
> Go fuck yourself.
===============================
Phillips
Can't. It's not long enough for that.
>
> [deleted]
Richard G. Philllips
Gord McFee wrote:
>
> On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:06:31 -0400, "Richard G. Philllips"
> <rgp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > It is a simple question of moral clout. The Jews have set themselves
> > pretty much at odds with the Western world, generally
> >
> > --with Germany, for obvious reasons
> > --with Austria, ditto
> > --With Switzerland because they did not terminate all business
> > connections with wartime Germany
> > --With Eastern Europe for its undoubted German sympathies
> > --With the Catholic Church for its insufficiently loud mea culpa's
>
=========================================================
Phillips
Probably to enhance his mea culpa to a mea maxima culpa.
=============================================================
Alexander Baron
> > The reason you don't see this is because the Mexicans wouldn't scream as
> loudly
> > as the Jews, but then does anyone?
>
> I guess that's because no one else needs to do so. But you already knew that.
Miss Cohen reveals once again that certain Jews regard themselves as special;
they NEED to scream louder than anybody else. Hasn't it occurred to you that
if you weren't so borish you wouldn't experience so much "anti-Semitism"?
--
Alexander Baron,
93c Venner Road,
Sydenham,
London SE26 5HU.
England.
+44 (0)181 659 7713
E-Mail A_B...@ABaron.Demon.Co.UK
Gord McFee
[deleted]
> And when I say "seriously" looking into the
> matter, I am not talking about the writing of silly books on the "root
> causes of anti-Semitism" whose only purpose is to cut your opponents
> down to size.
I suppose the Jews should come to their masters - you and your ilk - and
beg forgiveness for your antisemitism? Since Mr. Katz is too refined to
answer such a statement in language you understand, allow me to take his
place.
Go fuck yourself.
[deleted]
Gord McFee
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:22:46 GMT, Harry Katz <Harry...@mci.com> wrote:
> Anonymous writes:
>
> To suggest that the Catholic Church as an organization played a
> role in the Holocaust is bigotry.
>
> So, critically examining the role the Catholic Church has played in
> history is now bigotry. I did not realize that the Catholic Church
> is above question and beyond reproach.
From what I have seen lately, the Pope didn't either.
Gord McFee
On 10 Apr 98 04:31:29 GMT, ya...@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
> > Most Catholics disagree with that position.
>
> On one side in describing the Catholic position we have:
>
> Pope John XXIII
> Pope Jon Paul II
> John Cardinal Bernadin
> The Congress of German Bishops
> The Vatican II Council
>
> On the other side we have:
>
> you and a gaggle of fruitcakes
>
> Any guesses as to who has credibility?
I can't imagine it being put any better.
Gord McFee
> PHillips
>
> The only thing that was "politically impolitic" or "politically
> incorrect" about the Pope's statement is that it did not go quite far
> ENOUGH in satisfying
> Jews' never-ending and insatiable demands for self-abasement in
> non-Jews.
>
> ("We have suffered; you are guilty; you must not only apologize but must
> be forever ashamed of yourselves. We can neither forgive nor forget.")
More evidence, as if any were required, that Mr. Phillips hasn't the
slightest clue of the purpose or underlying theological implications of
the Pope's statement.
Gord McFee
> It is a simple question of moral clout. The Jews have set themselves
> pretty much at odds with the Western world, generally
>
> --with Germany, for obvious reasons
> --with Austria, ditto
> --With Switzerland because they did not terminate all business
> connections with wartime Germany
> --With Eastern Europe for its undoubted German sympathies
> --With the Catholic Church for its insufficiently loud mea culpa's
I suppose that is why the Pope is planning a visit to Israel in 2000?
--
Harry Katz
Gord McFee wrote:
>
> On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:21:48 -0400, "Richard G. Philllips"
> <rgp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Harry Katz wrote:
> > >
Richard G. Philllips wrote:
Before you accuse the then-Pope (Pius XII) of failing to speak
out against the exterminations, wouldn't it be a good idea to
first establish the fact that these exterminations were in fact
taking place.
This seems to be a topic of hot controversy on this NG. Until it
is an accepted fact you are hardly in a position to fault the
Catholic church (or any institution) of complicity in it.
I responded:
Mr. Phillips must be using a definition of the word "accepted"
that has not made it into any of the standard dictionaries of
the English language, yet. The facts of the Holocaust have been
accepted by the overwhelming majority of bona fide historians.
In his next post, Mr. Phillips opined:
By bona fide historians, I take it you mean academic historians
or mainstream historians - OK? Well, it is true that the usual
notions of the Holocaust are accepted by the overwhelming
majority of acamdemic historians and there is a very good reason
for it. If they did NOT accept it and could not keep their
beliefs to themselves, they would very soon cease to BE academic
historians - as quite a few have found to their sorrow.
Which I challenged:
"Quite a few!" So many, in fact, that Mr. Phillips cannot name
a single one!
In his latest post, Mr. Phillips redoubles his empty bluff and bluster:
HOw many (alleged) victims of gassing at Auschwitz can YOU name?
I could go to any halfway decent library and find many names. Or I
could speak with friends of my parents and find many names that might
not have made it into print. But in either case it would not change the
fact that Mr. Phillips cannot name a single, solitary professor who
has suffered in this way in spite of the fact that he claims there are
"quite a few" of them.
Mr. Phillips continues:
Dear Friend Katz:
Please! Mr. Phillips is no friend of mine. He is merely trying to
pump up his authority artificially by employing this condescending tone.
He continues:
Are you denying that university professors have frequently been
denied tenure and even fired for holding racist or anti-Jewish
views, thus creating an atmosphere where professors quickly
realize that they had better toe the establishment line?
I will go Mr. Phillips one better! I can name an American university
professor who openly espouses Holocaust denial, and is not only
tenured, but has a website devoted to denial provided free of charge
by the university that employs him. His name is Arthur Butz.
Having put his foot into his own mouth, Mr. Phillips proceeds to shove
it further down his throat until it is firmly lodged:
--If you are merely PRETENDING to doubt this, then I must accuse
you of being less than truthful.
--If you GENUINELY doubt this, then I would have to accuse you
of just not knowing how the world runs.
Mr. Phillips is certainly free with his accusations. First he accuses
reputable academics of knuckling under to some nebulous political cabal,
though he cannot offer a shred of evidence to back it up. When I point
this out he accuses me of either cupidity or naivete. Only this
time he made an ass of himself as I have provided evidence to support
my claims (even without "knowing how the world runs!").
Mr. Phillips blithely rambles on:
I would add one more thing. Speaking generally, the Jews would
be better served by backing off just a bit in their arrogance
and self-righteousness,...
Mr. Phillips has some chutzpah, complaining of Jewish arrogance after
backing up his own accusations against reputable historians with the
smug announcement above that he "knows how the world runs!"
...by occasionally admitting the possibility that someone who
bad-mouths them just might be coming from an honest place.
This cuts both ways. Mr. Phillips might admit that when Jews bad-mouth
him we are also "coming from an honest place."
He continues:
You would be better served by seriously looking into the
question of just WHY it is that, in the course of your history,
you have been expelled from just about every European country,
duchy, principality in which you have ever lived.
We have, and, of course, for every two Jews who have looked into this
question there are three opinions. My own humble opinion is that in
"every European country, duchy, principality" from which Jews were
expelled, it was engineered by powerful people who stood to gain from
expropriating, that is stealing, Jewish property.
Mr. Phillips concludes:
And when I say "seriously" looking into the matter, I am not
talking about the writing of silly books on the "root
causes of anti-Semitism" whose only purpose is to cut your
opponents down to size.
Personally, I never read the books that attempt to analyze the root
causes of anti-Semitism because I am not interested.
But let's step back and take a long view of what Mr. Phillips has
said. Basically, when challenged to name any academics who have
suffered as a result of espousing Holocaust denial or racism, he
accuses me of lying or being naive and then proceeds to lecture me
on the "arrogance and self-righteous" nature of Jews. In other words,
I have some nerve as a Jew to challenge him to prove his slanderous
accusations, and I ought to hold my tongue in the presence of my
betters. Now that might serve Mr. Phillips very well, but I fail to
see how "Jews would be better served" by following this servile advice.
--
Harry Katz
Richard G. Philllips
PHillips
It is quite true: I cannot name a single one, although if I were
prepared to undertake the effort I think I could find a few. In any
event, my being temporarily at a loss on the question does not establish
the fact that such disciplining has never taken place. I argue on the
basis that academia is an institution not completely unlike other large
institutions: army, government, corporate, media, and that in any large
institution a newcomer soon finds that there is a prevailing mind-set,
and if he wishes to advance in that institution he is well-advised to
either adopt that prevailing mind-set or at least to affect to do so.
To research the matter would be extremely difficult because academia
--like all other large institutions-- is not inclined to expose its
internal politics to public view. So you learn that former Asst
Professor X got the chop from the University of Y and you suspect it was
on account of his political views. Should you attempt to look into the
matter, if they tell you anything at all (which I doubt) it will more
likely be that he was fired for some academic inadequacy such as an
insufficient volume of publications.
Sorry if I have spoiled your roar of triumph: ("Phillips can't name a
single one.")
==================================================================================
> Mr. Phillips continues:
>
> Dear Friend Katz:
>
> Please! Mr. Phillips is no friend of mine. He is merely trying to
> pump up his authority artificially by employing this condescending tone.
=================================================
PHillips
Perfectly true.
==================================
>
> He continues:
>
> Are you denying that university professors have frequently been
> denied tenure and even fired for holding racist or anti-Jewish
> views, thus creating an atmosphere where professors quickly
> realize that they had better toe the establishment line?
>
> I will go Mr. Phillips one better! I can name an American university
> professor who openly espouses Holocaust denial, and is not only
> tenured, but has a website devoted to denial provided free of charge
> by the university that employs him. His name is Arthur Butz.
=======================================================
Phillips
The first thing I will say is that to cite one professor (Butz) who has
NOT been fired for offbeat pollitics is hardly a convincing argument
that NONE have been fired (or denied tenure) for that cause.
But let me take up the case of Butz. Can you tell me which came first:
his tenure or his offbeat politics? I am inclined to think that the
tenure came first - otherwise it probably would NOT have come at all.
Anyway, now that he HAS the tenure, the university authorities probably
realize that to attempt to fire him could involve them in a court battle
that would be washing their dirty linen in public, something they would
much prefer to avoid.
Sorry if I have spoiled your second brilliant point.
=============================================================
>
> Having put his foot into his own mouth, Mr. Phillips proceeds to shove
> it further down his throat until it is firmly lodged:
>
> --If you are merely PRETENDING to doubt this, then I must accuse
> you of being less than truthful.
>
> --If you GENUINELY doubt this, then I would have to accuse you
> of just not knowing how the world runs.
>
> Mr. Phillips is certainly free with his accusations. First he accuses
> reputable academics of knuckling under to some nebulous political cabal,
> though he cannot offer a shred of evidence to back it up. When I point
> this out he accuses me of either cupidity or naivete. Only this
> time he made an ass of himself as I have provided evidence to support
> my claims (even without "knowing how the world runs!").
>
> Mr. Phillips blithely rambles on:
>
> I would add one more thing. Speaking generally, the Jews would
> be better served by backing off just a bit in their arrogance
> and self-righteousness,...
>
> Mr. Phillips has some chutzpah, complaining of Jewish arrogance after
> backing up his own accusations against reputable historians with the
> smug announcement above that he "knows how the world runs!"
=============================================
Phillips
I fail to see a connection between the two.
==============================================
>
> ...by occasionally admitting the possibility that someone who
> bad-mouths them just might be coming from an honest place.
>
> This cuts both ways. Mr. Phillips might admit that when Jews bad-mouth
> him we are also "coming from an honest place."
===============================
Phillips
this does not address the issue
====================================
>
> He continues:
>
> You would be better served by seriously looking into the
> question of just WHY it is that, in the course of your history,
> you have been expelled from just about every European country,
> duchy, principality in which you have ever lived.
>
> We have, and, of course, for every two Jews who have looked into this
> question there are three opinions. My own humble opinion is that in
> "every European country, duchy, principality" from which Jews were
> expelled, it was engineered by powerful people who stood to gain from
> expropriating, that is stealing, Jewish property.
========================================
Phillips
That was, in many cases, certainly A motiving factor. Are you very sure
it was the ONLY one?
================================================================
>
> Mr. Phillips concludes:
>
> And when I say "seriously" looking into the matter, I am not
> talking about the writing of silly books on the "root
> causes of anti-Semitism" whose only purpose is to cut your
> opponents down to size.
>
> Personally, I never read the books that attempt to analyze the root
> causes of anti-Semitism because I am not interested.
>
> But let's step back and take a long view of what Mr. Phillips has
> said. Basically, when challenged to name any academics who have
> suffered as a result of espousing Holocaust denial or racism, he
> accuses me of lying or being naive and then proceeds to lecture me
> on the "arrogance and self-righteous" nature of Jews. In other words,
> I have some nerve as a Jew to challenge him to prove his slanderous
> accusations, and I ought to hold my tongue in the presence of my
> betters. Now that might serve Mr. Phillips very well, but I fail to
> see how "Jews would be better served" by following this servile advice.
============================================
Phillips
I am not one of your "betters" because I am not anybody's "better."
What I am is a very run-of-the-mill American who is enraged by the
gradual and inexorable destruction of the America I grew up in, of our
sense of nation and of race. Jews are hardly the sole actuators of this
but they are very much a part of it.
You have seen that rage on this NG. You would do well to take heed of
it.
=========================================================
>
JungleAcid
Couldn't stop A_B...@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) from
writing:
> In article <352DA507...@smart.net> ze...@smart.net "Susan Cohen" writes:
>
> > > The reason you don't see this is because the Mexicans wouldn't scream as
> > loudly
> > > as the Jews, but then does anyone?
> >
> > I guess that's because no one else needs to do so. But you already knew that.
>
> Miss Cohen reveals once again that certain Jews regard themselves as special;
> they NEED to scream louder than anybody else. Hasn't it occurred to you that
> if you weren't so borish you wouldn't experience so much "anti-Semitism"?
you ask the gauche of usenet to have a little selbstverwirklichung?
jesu maria, good luck.
--
JA15x6,2