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St. Pionius Martyred by Romans

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John Morris

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Mar 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/2/99
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From the Catholic Encyclopedia

St. Pionius

Martyred at Smyrna, 12 March, 250. Pionius, with Sabina and
Asclepiades, was arrested on 23 February, the anniversary of St.
Polycarp's martyrdom. They had passed the previous night in prayer and
fasting. Knowing of his impending arrest, Pionius had fastened fetters
round the necks of himself and his companions to signify that they
were already condemned. People seeing them led off unbound might
suppose that they were prepared, like so many other Christians in
Smyrna, the bishop included, to sacrifice. Early in the morning, after
they had partaken of the Holy Bread and of water, they were conducted
to the forum. The place was thronged with Greeks and Jews, for it was
a great Sabbath and therefore a general holiday in the city -- an
indication of the importance of the Jews in Smyrna. Pionius harangued
the multitude. He begged the Greeks to remember what Homer had said
about not mocking the corpse of an enemy. Let them refrain therefore
from mocking those Christians who had apostatized. He then turned to
the Jews and quoted Moses and Solomon to the same effect. He ended
with a vehement refusal to offer sacrifice. Then followed the usual
interrogatories and threats, after which Pionius and his companions
were relegated to prison, to await the arrival of the proconsul. Here
they found other confessors, among them a Montanist. Many pagans
visited them, and Christians who had sacrificed, lamenting their fall.
The latter Pionius exhorted to repentance. A further attempt before
the arrival of the proconsul was made to force Pionius and his
companions into an act of apostasy. They were carried off to a temple
where every effort was made to compel them to participate in a
sacrifice. On 12 March, Pionius was brought before the proconsul who
first tried persuasion and then torture. Both having failed, Pionius
was condemned to be burnt alive. He suffered in company with
Metrodorus, a Marcionite priest. His feast is kept by the Latins on 1
Feb.; by the Greeks on 11 March. The true day of his martyrdom,
according to the Acts, was 12 March. Eusebius ("H.E.", IV, xv;
"Chron.", p. 17, ed. Schoene) places the martyrdom in the reign of
Antoninus. His mistake was probably due to the fact that he found the
martyrdom of Pionius in a volume containing the Acts of Martyrs of an
earlier date. Possibly his MS. lacked the chronological note in our
present ones. For the life of Polycarp by Pionius, see Polycarp,
Saint. Did Pionius before his martyrdom celebrate with bread and
water? We know from St. Cyprian (Ep. 63) that this abuse existed in
his time. But note (1) the bread is spoken of as Holy, but not the
water; (2) it is unlikely that Pionius would celebrate with only two
persons present. It is more likely therefore that we have an account,
not of a celebration, but of a private Communion (see Funk,
"Abhandlungen", I, 287).

J.F. BACCHUS
Dedicated to the memory of Brother Declan Brown, L.C.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia, copyright Š 1913 by the Encyclopedia
Press, Inc. Electronic version copyright Š 1998 by New Advent, Inc.

http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/12105a.htm

--
John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>

David Gehrig

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
In article <36dc75d2...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote:

>From the Catholic Encyclopedia
>
>St. Pionius

Another "victory" for Joe.

Mind you, Joe will probably come back with the response that he never
_said_ the Jews killed Pionius, just that Pionius addressed them.
Or something along those lines. Or maybe he'll read the last few
sentences below and tell you that you're talking about the wrong
Pionius.

@%<

>From the Catholic Encyclopedia, copyright © 1913 by the Encyclopedia
>Press, Inc. Electronic version copyright © 1998 by New Advent, Inc.

David Gehrig

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
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David Gehrig

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
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Debunks

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
>Subject: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris)
>Date: 3/2/99 6:40 PM EST
>Message-id: <36dc75d2...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>

>
>From the Catholic Encyclopedia
>
>St. Pionius
>

SNIP

And to whom, then, O Mighty mouse, was Pionius addressing before he was
martyred?--The ROMANS? LOL!

In fact, it was the Jewish leaders who had been instigating the authorities to
persecute and murder the Jews since the time of Chirst's cruxifiction at their
insistence. Later, these agitators milled about in the crowd in order to
ridicule and mock the dying. If we examine the New Testament accounts as well
as the accounts of the early martyrs, we will find absolute and convincing
evidence for this fact. Even Saul, who later converted, had begun a promising
career as an inciter to murder Christians, which led to the marytrdom of St
Steven, a Jewish Christian. Saul had the full support of the Pharisees.

A few examples:

"After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: For he would not walk in Jewry,
because the Jews sought to kill him." --John 7:1

"Then answered the Jewish Leaders, and said to him: "Say we not well that thou
art a Samaritan, and have a devil?"--8:48
(As Nizkooks call us "Nazis" and "Anti_Semites today!--The names and insults
change, but the tactics remain the same)

"And after that many days were fulfulled, the Jewish leaders took counsel to
kill him."--Acts 9:23

But the Jewish Leaders stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the
chief men of the city, and raised persecutions against Paul and Barnabas, and
expelled them out of their coasts."--Acts 13:50

"And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded
the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had
been dead." Acts 14: 19

"And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves
under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had
killed Paul. Acts 23:12

(Reminds me of what happened to Spinoza)

"But after 2 years Porcius Festus came into Felix' room: and Felix, will to
please the Jewish Leaders, left Paul bound."--Acts 24:27

Debunks

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: "David Gehrig" <zem...@antihormeltref.soltec.net>
>Date: 3/3/99 9:55 AM EST
>Message-id: <d3cD2.14$bH4...@news12.ispnews.com>
>>From the Catholic Encyclopedia
>>
>>St. Pionius
>
>Another "victory" for Joe.
>
>Mind you, Joe will probably come back with the response that he never
>_said_ the Jews killed Pionius, just that Pionius addressed them.
>Or something along those lines. Or maybe he'll read the last few
>sentences below and tell you that you're talking about the wrong
>Pionius.
>

No, I won't say that--I will say this:

yale_f._edeiken

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
> deb...@aol.com (Debunks) always ready to pass out misinformation:

> >Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: "David Gehrig" <zem...@antihormeltref.soltec.net>
> >Date: 3/3/99 9:55 AM EST
> >Message-id: <d3cD2.14$bH4...@news12.ispnews.com>

> >In article <36dc75d2...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
> >John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote:

> >>From the Catholic Encyclopedia

> >>St. Pionius

> >Another "victory" for Joe.

> >Mind you, Joe will probably come back with the response that he never
> >_said_ the Jews killed Pionius, just that Pionius addressed them.
> >Or something along those lines. Or maybe he'll read the last few
> >sentences below and tell you that you're talking about the wrong
> >Pionius.


> No, I won't say that--I will say this:

> And to whom, then, O Mighty mouse, was Pionius addressing before he was
> martyred?--The ROMANS? LOL!

Note how Jew-hating Joe conveniently snips the words from the Catholic
Enclycopedia which answers his question:

Note that Jew-hating Joe snipped this and substitutes instead his anti-Semitic lie.
Pionius was addressing the the "multitude" in the plaza during a time of public celebration.
He addressed both Greeks and Jews.

The rest of Jew-hating Joe's usual hate literature is snipped.

The only laughing around here is at Jew-hating Joe who, once more, has proved
what a bigot he is.


In article <19990112213243...@ng31.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote: "I post deliberate misinformation . . ."


"hello? antone out there 12-14 e-mail me. i am thirteen and . .
.well if you e-mail me at jbel...@sprynet.com you can find out more about me i
am a female."

--YFE

The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/
The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/
The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/

fled...@my-dejanews.com

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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fled...@my-dejanews.com

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Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
In article <19990303161726...@ng94.aol.com>,

deb...@aol.com (Debunks) wrote:
> >Subject: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris)
> >Date: 3/2/99 6:40 PM EST
> >Message-id: <36dc75d2...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
> >
> >From the Catholic Encyclopedia
> >
> >St. Pionius
> >
>
> SNIP

>
> And to whom, then, O Mighty mouse, was Pionius addressing before he was
> martyred?--The ROMANS? LOL!

You snipped John Morris's citation of the Catholic Encyclopaedia article
stating that he addressed both Jews and Greeks.

You also seem to be arguing that the person you address before dying must be
the person who killed you. On this argument, Gandhi was killed by Rama
himself.

>
> In fact, it was the Jewish leaders who had been instigating the authorities to
> persecute and murder the Jews since the time of Chirst's cruxifiction at their
> insistence. Later, these agitators milled about in the crowd in order to

Please cite the evidence for this assertion.

> ridicule and mock the dying. If we examine the New Testament accounts as well
> as the accounts of the early martyrs, we will find absolute and convincing
> evidence for this fact. Even Saul, who later converted, had begun a promising

No, we'll find that you're mixing apples and oranges -- crab apples and
seville oranges at that.

> career as an inciter to murder Christians, which led to the marytrdom of St
> Steven, a Jewish Christian. Saul had the full support of the Pharisees.

And? All the early Christians were Jews.

>
> A few examples:
>
> "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: For he would not walk in Jewry,
> because the Jews sought to kill him." --John 7:1

He was, we may note, Jewish.

>
> "Then answered the Jewish Leaders, and said to him: "Say we not well that
thou
> art a Samaritan, and have a devil?"--8:48
> (As Nizkooks call us "Nazis" and "Anti_Semites today!--The names and insults
> change, but the tactics remain the same)

You're Jesus?

>
> "And after that many days were fulfulled, the Jewish leaders took counsel to
> kill him."--Acts 9:23

And?

>
> But the Jewish Leaders stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the
> chief men of the city, and raised persecutions against Paul and Barnabas, and
> expelled them out of their coasts."--Acts 13:50
>
> "And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded

> the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he
had
> been dead." Acts 14: 19

All of this, btw, being Jews versus, gasp, Jews.

>
> "And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound
themselves
> under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had
> killed Paul. Acts 23:12

Who was Jewish?

>
> (Reminds me of what happened to Spinoza)

Spinoza was killed?

>
> "But after 2 years Porcius Festus came into Felix' room: and Felix, will to
> please the Jewish Leaders, left Paul bound."--Acts 24:27
>

This quotation is garbled.


Fragano Ledgister @ Dejanews
Mia irmana fremosa, treides comigo
a la igrexa de Vigo, ú é o mar salido,
e miraremolas ondas.

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

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yale_f._edeiken

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
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yale_f._edeiken

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
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Debunks

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: Yale F. Edeiken
>Date: 3/3/99 9:20 AM EST
>Message-id: <36ddd...@news3.enter.net>

>
> Note how Jew-hating Joe conveniently snips the words from the Catholic
>Enclycopedia which answers his question:

We have seen your words from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Now, let us once again
refer to the words of the Saint himself:

Before his martyrdom at the hands of the Jews during the reign of the Roman
Emperor Decius, St. Pionius addressed the Jews who taunted him before his
death:

"I say this to you Jews....that if we are enemies, we are also human beings.
Have any of you been injured by us? Have we caused you to be tortured? When
have we unjustly persecuted? When have we harmed in speech? When have we
cruelly dragged to torture?

Acta Savctorum, 1, 37-46.


Debunks

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: fled...@my-dejanews.com
>Date: 3/3/99 8:23 PM EST
>Message-id: <7bkn9g$6ur$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

>You snipped John Morris's citation of the Catholic Encyclopaedia article
>stating that he addressed both Jews and Greeks.

Irrelevant,=. Let us stick with the primary source: The words of the martyred
saint himself:

Before his martyrdom at the hands of the Jews during the reign of the Roman
Emperor Decius, St. Pionius addressed the Jews who taunted him before his
death:

"I say this to you Jews....that if we are enemies, we are also human beings.
Have any of you been injured by us? Have we caused you to be tortured? When
have we unjustly persecuted? When have we harmed in speech? When have we
cruelly dragged to torture?

Acta Savctorum, 1, 37-46.

>You also seem to be arguing that the person you address before dying must be
>the person who killed you. On this argument, Gandhi was killed by Rama
>himself.
>

Let us refer to the Saint's own words:

Before his martyrdom at the hands of the Jews during the reign of the Roman
Emperor Decius, St. Pionius addressed the Jews who taunted him before his
death:

"I say this to you Jews....that if we are enemies, we are also human beings.
Have any of you been injured by us? Have we caused you to be tortured? When
have we unjustly persecuted? When have we harmed in speech? When have we
cruelly dragged to torture?

Acta Savctorum, 1, 37-46.

>In fact, it was the Jewish leaders who had been instigating the authorities
>to
>> persecute and murder the Jews since the time of Chirst's cruxifiction at
>their
>> insistence. Later, these agitators milled about in the crowd in order to
>
>Please cite the evidence for this assertion.
>

I just did, silly.

>ridicule and mock the dying. If we examine the New Testament accounts as
>well
>> as the accounts of the early martyrs, we will find absolute and convincing
>> evidence for this fact. Even Saul, who later converted, had begun a
>promising
>
>No, we'll find that you're mixing apples and oranges -- crab apples and
>seville oranges at that.

It is such fun for you to mock the deaths of Christians due to the incitement
of Jewish leaders, no?

> career as an inciter to murder Christians, which led to the marytrdom of St
>> Steven, a Jewish Christian. Saul had the full support of the Pharisees.
>
>And? All the early Christians were Jews.

I see...so that gave THESE Jews the right to kill them, is that it?

>
>> "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: For he would not walk in
>Jewry,
>> because the Jews sought to kill him." --John 7:1
>
>He was, we may note, Jewish.

Yes, he was....he also claimed to be divine, and I believe there is a
distinction between Jewish and the Divine. Either way, did that give the
Jewish leaders the authority and right to attempt to murder him?

> "Then answered the Jewish Leaders, and said to him: "Say we not well that
>thou
>> art a Samaritan, and have a devil?"--8:48
>> (As Nizkooks call us "Nazis" and "Anti_Semites today!--The names and
>insults
>> change, but the tactics remain the same)
>
>You're Jesus?

Different folks, different strokes. a Nizkook remains a Nizkook whether today
or 2000 years ago.

>> "And after that many days were fulfulled, the Jewish leaders took counsel
>to
>> kill him."--Acts 9:23
>
>And?
>

They killed him. You approve, no doubt. He was such an egregious "criminal,"
wasn't he?

>
>> "And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who
>persuaded
>> the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he
>had
>> been dead." Acts 14: 19
>
>All of this, btw, being Jews versus, gasp, Jews.
>
>>

Really? Are you admitting that Jews are a "gasp" "race" as well as a religion?
In point of fact, once these Jews followed Christ they accepted the new and
everlasting covenant, and were no longer Jews in the religious sense. The old
covenant was abrogated. The Jewish leaders chose the Talmud over the Living
Word.

>
>> "And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound
>themselves
>> under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had
>> killed Paul. Acts 23:12
>
>Who was Jewish?
>

Are you incapable of understanding this passage?

>> (Reminds me of what happened to Spinoza)
>
>Spinoza was killed?

They tried, didn't they? I believe he recieved a shiv in the back, or the arm.
The Yeshiva boys gave it their best shot.

>> "But after 2 years Porcius Festus came into Felix' room: and Felix, willing
to
>> please the Jewish Leaders, left Paul bound."--Acts 24:27
>>
>This quotation is garbled.

It is now corrected.

John Morris

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
In <19990303161726...@ng94.aol.com>, on 3 Mar 1999
21:17:26 GMT, deb...@aol.com (Debunks) wrote:

>>From: John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris)
>>Message-id: <36dc75d2...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>

>>From the Catholic Encyclopedia

>>St. Pionius

>SNIP

>And to whom, then, O Mighty mouse, was Pionius addressing before he was
>martyred?--The ROMANS? LOL!

Nope. The citizenry of Smyrna, Greeks and Jews.

Who was the civil authority in Smyrna in 250 AD?

[rambling antisemitica deleted]

--
John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>

Yale F. Edeiken

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to

Debunks wrote in message <19990303161805...@ng94.aol.com>...

>>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>>From: "David Gehrig" <zem...@antihormeltref.soltec.net>
>>Date: 3/3/99 9:55 AM EST
>>Message-id: <d3cD2.14$bH4...@news12.ispnews.com>
>>
>>In article <36dc75d2...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
>>John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote:

>>>From the Catholic Encyclopedia
>>>
>>>St. Pionius
>>

>>Another "victory" for Joe.
>>
>>Mind you, Joe will probably come back with the response that he never
>>_said_ the Jews killed Pionius, just that Pionius addressed them.
>>Or something along those lines. Or maybe he'll read the last few
>>sentences below and tell you that you're talking about the wrong
>>Pionius.


>No, I won't say that--I will say this:

>And to whom, then, O Mighty mouse, was Pionius addressing before he was
>martyred?--The ROMANS? LOL!


Read in again you brainless nit. He was addressing the crowds gathered
in the forum for a sabbath:


Martyred at Smyrna, 12 March, 250. Pionius, with Sabina and
Asclepiades, was arrested on 23 February, the anniversary of St.
Polycarp's martyrdom. They had passed the previous night in prayer and
fasting. Knowing of his impending arrest, Pionius had fastened fetters
round the necks of himself and his companions to signify that they
were already condemned. People seeing them led off unbound might
suppose that they were prepared, like so many other Christians in
Smyrna, the bishop included, to sacrifice. Early in the morning, after
they had partaken of the Holy Bread and of water, they were conducted
to the forum. The place was thronged with Greeks and Jews, for it was
a great Sabbath and therefore a general holiday in the city -- an
indication of the importance of the Jews in Smyrna. Pionius harangued
the multitude. He begged the Greeks to remember what Homer had said
about not mocking the corpse of an enemy. Let them refrain therefore
from mocking those Christians who had apostatized. He then turned to
the Jews and quoted Moses and Solomon to the same effect. He ended
with a vehement refusal to offer sacrifice. Then followed the usual
interrogatories and threats, after which Pionius and his companions
were relegated to prison, to await the arrival of the proconsul. Here
they found other confessors, among them a Montanist. Many pagans
visited them, and Christians who had sacrificed, lamenting their fall.
The latter Pionius exhorted to repentance. A further attempt before
the arrival of the proconsul was made to force Pionius and his
companions into an act of apostasy. They were carried off to a temple
where every effort was made to compel them to participate in a
sacrifice. On 12 March, Pionius was brought before the proconsul who
first tried persuasion and then torture. Both having failed, Pionius
was condemned to be burnt alive. He suffered in company with
Metrodorus, a Marcionite priest. His feast is kept by the Latins on 1
Feb.; by the Greeks on 11 March. The true day of his martyrdom,
according to the Acts, was 12 March. Eusebius ("H.E.", IV, xv;
"Chron.", p. 17, ed. Schoene) places the martyrdom in the reign of
Antoninus. His mistake was probably due to the fact that he found the
martyrdom of Pionius in a volume containing the Acts of Martyrs of an
earlier date. Possibly his MS. lacked the chronological note in our
present ones. For the life of Polycarp by Pionius, see Polycarp,
Saint. Did Pionius before his martyrdom celebrate with bread and
water? We know from St. Cyprian (Ep. 63) that this abuse existed in
his time. But note (1) the bread is spoken of as Holy, but not the
water; (2) it is unlikely that Pionius would celebrate with only two
persons present. It is more likely therefore that we have an account,
not of a celebration, but of a private Communion (see Funk,
"Abhandlungen", I, 287).


In article <19990112213243...@ng31.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote: "I post deliberate misinformation . . ."

"hello? antone out there 12-14 e-mail me. i am thirteen and . .
.well if you e-mail me at jbel...@sprynet.com you can find out more about
me i
am a female."

--YFE

The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/
The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/
The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/


Yale F. Edeiken

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to

Debunks wrote in message <19990304044247...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...

>>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>>From: fled...@my-dejanews.com
>>Date: 3/3/99 8:23 PM EST
>>Message-id: <7bkn9g$6ur$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

>>You snipped John Morris's citation of the Catholic Encyclopaedia article
>>stating that he addressed both Jews and Greeks.

>Irrelevant,=. Let us stick with the primary source: The words of the
martyred
>saint himself:


I hardly think that the standard interpretation of the lives of the
saints by the Catholic Church is "irrelevant." Or are you claiming that the
Catholic Church does not know who their saints were or why they were
sanctified.

This unnamed source is hardly a "primary source" for it states:

>Before his martyrdom at the hands of the Jews during the reign of the Roman
>Emperor Decius, St. Pionius addressed the Jews who taunted him before his
>death:


Read it again you lying, brainless nit and note that Pionius was
mayrtered by the Romans for refusing to make pagan sacrifices and addressed
the crowd incidentally gathered for his execution not his executioners.

Yale F. Edeiken

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to

Debunks wrote in message <19990304043033...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...

>>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>>From: Yale F. Edeiken
>>Date: 3/3/99 9:20 AM EST
>>Message-id: <36ddd...@news3.enter.net>


>> Note how Jew-hating Joe conveniently snips the words from the Catholic
>>Enclycopedia which answers his question:

>We have seen your words from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Now, let us once
again
>refer to the words of the Saint himself:

>Before his martyrdom at the hands of the Jews during the reign of the Roman


>Emperor Decius, St. Pionius addressed the Jews who taunted him before his
>death:

Apaprently Jew-hating Joe does not understand what that term
means.Those are clearly not the words of the saint in question.

And here is the Catholic teaching about the saint in question which
Jew-hating Joe rejects. It should be noted that it clearly indicates that
Pionius was marytered by the Romans and addressed the Jews and the Greeks
because they were present in the forum at the time of his execution.

It is evident that Jew-hating Joe, who otherwise rejects the teachings
of the Catholic Church, has been caught fabricating to support his slimy
anti-Semitism once more:

yale_f._edeiken

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
> deb...@aol.com (Debunks) writes:
> >Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: "Yale F. Edeiken" <ya...@enter.net>
> >Date: 3/4/99 11:20 AM EST
> >Message-id: <36deb...@news3.enter.net>

> >Debunks wrote in message <19990304044247...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...


> >>>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans

> >>>From: fled...@my-dejanews.com
> >>>Date: 3/3/99 8:23 PM EST
> >>>Message-id: <7bkn9g$6ur$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

> >>>You snipped John Morris's citation of the Catholic Encyclopaedia article
> >>>stating that he addressed both Jews and Greeks.

> >>Irrelevant,=. Let us stick with the primary source: The words of the
> >martyred saint himself:


> > I hardly think that the standard interpretation of the lives of the
> >saints by the Catholic Church is "irrelevant." Or are you claiming that the
> >Catholic Church does not know who their saints were or why they were
> >sanctified.

Jew-hating Joe has no answer.

> > This unnamed source is hardly a "primary source" for it states:

> >>Before his martyrdom at the hands of the Jews during the reign of the Roman


> >>Emperor Decius, St. Pionius addressed the Jews who taunted him before his
> >>death:

> > Read it again you lying, brainless nit and note that Pionius was


> >mayrtered by the Romans for refusing to make pagan sacrifices and addressed
> >the crowd incidentally gathered for his execution not his executioners.


> Yeah, yeah, the same lie you people always prattle on about when it comes time
> to assigning the real guilt. It was through the denunciations and slanders of
> these jews that we owe these marytrs deaths.

Which is contrary to the Catholic Encylcopedia which reflects Catholic teaching
note that the text which Jew-hating Joe snipped specifically states that Pionius was executed
for refusing to make pagan sacrifices, a position which Jews of that -- or any other era --
approved:

David Gehrig

unread,
Mar 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/4/99
to
In article <19990304223127...@ng-fw1.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote:

>>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans

>>From: John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris)
>>Date: 3/4/99 5:36 AM EST
>>Message-id: <36e30cf3...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>


>>
>>In <19990303161726...@ng94.aol.com>, on 3 Mar 1999
>>21:17:26 GMT, deb...@aol.com (Debunks) wrote:
>>
>>>>From: John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris)
>>>>Message-id: <36dc75d2...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
>>

>>>>From the Catholic Encyclopedia
>>
>>>>St. Pionius
>>

>>>SNIP


>>
>>>And to whom, then, O Mighty mouse, was Pionius addressing before he was
>>>martyred?--The ROMANS? LOL!
>>

>>Nope. The citizenry of Smyrna, Greeks and Jews.
>>
>>Who was the civil authority in Smyrna in 250 AD?
>>
>>[rambling antisemitica deleted]
>>
>>--
>> John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
>> at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
>

>I don't give a damn. It was the Jews who incited the authorities to murder
>these innocent people. It was standard practice.

Once again, Joe proves you can't do the goosestep without jerking your
knees.

@%<

Debunks

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: "Yale F. Edeiken" <ya...@enter.net>
>Date: 3/4/99 11:26 AM EST
>Message-id: <36deb...@news3.enter.ne

>
> Apaprently Jew-hating Joe does not understand what that term
>means.Those are clearly not the words of the saint in question.
>

They clearly are and were. Try again, deef man.

Debunks

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: "Yale F. Edeiken" <ya...@enter.net>
>Date: 3/4/99 11:20 AM EST
>Message-id: <36deb...@news3.enter.net>
>
>
>Debunks wrote in message <19990304044247...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
>>>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>>>From: fled...@my-dejanews.com
>>>Date: 3/3/99 8:23 PM EST
>>>Message-id: <7bkn9g$6ur$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>>>You snipped John Morris's citation of the Catholic Encyclopaedia article
>>>stating that he addressed both Jews and Greeks.
>
>>Irrelevant,=. Let us stick with the primary source: The words of the
>martyred
>>saint himself:
>
>
> I hardly think that the standard interpretation of the lives of the
>saints by the Catholic Church is "irrelevant." Or are you claiming that the
>Catholic Church does not know who their saints were or why they were
>sanctified.
>

Debunks

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans

Charlie Chester

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
> Debunked wrote in message <19990304044247...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...

> >>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >>From: fled...@my-dejanews.com
> >>Date: 3/3/99 8:23 PM EST
> >>Message-id: <7bkn9g$6ur$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
> >>You snipped John Morris's citation of the Catholic Encyclopaedia article
> >>stating that he addressed both Jews and Greeks.
>
> >Irrelevant,=. Let us stick with the primary source: The words of the
> martyred
> >saint himself:
>

Well then Mr B, could you please give us a cite for this primary source. What is
the name of the document & where is it from? Which eyewitness to the events
wrote down the words attributed to Pionius & how soon afterwards? What steps
have been taken to authenticate the document?
I think if we can answer those questions then we can indeed discuss this primary
source.
cheers
Charlie Chester
Manchester - England


David

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to

Charlie Chester wrote:

Looks like you've got him, Joe. When they start demanding that you jump through
hoops and post this and that, it means they can't answer your point.

David


PHILNANCY

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
In >Message-id: <36E0084A...@cableinet.co.uk>

>David <Dav...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:

No, Mr. Chester just wants to make sure Joe's story hasn't been "stitched up",
or isn't based, heaven forbid, on "captured" documents, supported by testimony
of those who may have suffered at the hands of Pionius.

You, on the other hand, when asked to provide support for other people's
"points" which you willingly accept and offer as "evidence", without
skepticism, whine like a grade schooler that you're being made to "jump through
hoops". I see you've found the perfect solution to your insurmountable
skepticism about categories of evidence. Fuck the evidence, let us just make
our points!

Philip Mathews

"Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing
knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant
than would take even a little trouble to acquire it." Samuel Johnson


Debunks

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: Yale F. Edeiken
>Date: 3/4/99 1:45 PM EST
>Message-id: <36df6...@news3.enter.net>
>

>Which is contrary to the Catholic Encylcopedia which reflects Catholic
>teaching
>note that the text which Jew-hating Joe snipped specifically states that
>Pionius was executed
>for refusing to make pagan sacrifices, a position which Jews of that -- or
>any other era --
>approved:

Yet they were in the crowd goading the executioner's on. To the Jews,
Christians were idolators for claiming Christ was the Son of the Living God.

Debunks

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: Yale F. Edeiken
>Date: 3/4/99 1:57 PM EST
>Message-id: <36df6...@news3.enter.net>
>

>Note that Jew-hating Joe rejects the position of the Catholic Church
>because of his bigoted fantasies. Here is what he cannot face:

SNIP

And you cannot face the dying words of the martyr himself. How droll.

Debunks

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: Charlie Chester <gu...@csu.ac.uk>
>Date: 3/5/99 8:44 AM EST
>Message-id: <36DFDFCF...@csu.ac.uk>
>

>Well then Mr B, could you please give us a cite for this primary source. What
>is
>the name of the document & where is it from? Which eyewitness to the events
>wrote down the words attributed to Pionius & how soon afterwards? What steps
>have been taken to authenticate the document?
>I think if we can answer those questions then we can indeed discuss this
>primary
>source.
>cheers
>Charlie Chester
>Manchester - England
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I do not think that is necessary Charlie. Have a nice day.

Debunks

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: "David Gehrig" <zem...@antihormeltref.soltec.net>
>Date: 3/4/99 11:54 PM EST
>Message-id: <UrJD2.233$e61....@news13.ispnews.com>

>
>In article <19990304223127...@ng-fw1.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
>(Debunks) wrote:
>
>>>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>Once again, Joe proves you can't do the goosestep without jerking your
>knees.
>
>@%<
>
>
>
>
>
>

You know it is a fact and the words of the dying martyr himself proves it so.

Debunks

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>From: David <Dav...@cableinet.co.uk>
>Date: 3/5/99 11:37 AM EST
>Message-id: <36E0084A...@cableinet.co.uk>

>
>
>
>Charlie Chester wrote:
>
>> > Debunked wrote in message
><19990304044247...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
>> > >>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
>> > >>From: fled...@my-dejanews.com
>> > >>Date: 3/3/99 8:23 PM EST
>> > >>Message-id: <7bkn9g$6ur$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>> >
>> > >>You snipped John Morris's citation of the Catholic Encyclopaedia
>article
>> > >>stating that he addressed both Jews and Greeks.
>> >
>> > >Irrelevant,=. Let us stick with the primary source: The words of the
>> > martyred
>> > >saint himself:
>> >
>>
>> Well then Mr B, could you please give us a cite for this primary source.
>What is
>> the name of the document & where is it from? Which eyewitness to the events
>> wrote down the words attributed to Pionius & how soon afterwards? What
>steps
>> have been taken to authenticate the document?
>> I think if we can answer those questions then we can indeed discuss this
>primary
>> source.
>> cheers
>> Charlie Chester
>> Manchester - England
>
>Looks like you've got him, Joe. When they start demanding that you jump
>through
>hoops and post this and that, it means they can't answer your point.
>
>David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Indeed. And I am sure you have already noticed how it is always the SAME
answer over and over, from the religious disputes ofthe ancients to today.

fled...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to

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fled...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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yale_f._edeiken

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
> deb...@aol.com (Debunks) writes:
> >Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: Charlie Chester <gu...@csu.ac.uk>
> >Date: 3/5/99 8:44 AM EST
> >Message-id: <36DFDFCF...@csu.ac.uk>

> >Well then Mr B, could you please give us a cite for this primary source. What


> >is
> >the name of the document & where is it from? Which eyewitness to the events
> >wrote down the words attributed to Pionius & how soon afterwards? What
steps
> >have been taken to authenticate the document?
> >I think if we can answer those questions then we can indeed discuss this
> >primary
> >source.
> >cheers
> >Charlie Chester
> >Manchester - England

> I do not think that is necessary Charlie. Have a nice day.

Thank you for the admission that you were just psoting more deliberate
misinformation.

yale_f._edeiken

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
> David <Dav...@cableinet.co.uk> writes:

> Charlie Chester wrote:

> > > Debunked wrote in message
<19990304044247...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...

> > > >>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans

> > > >>From: fled...@my-dejanews.com
> > > >>Date: 3/3/99 8:23 PM EST
> > > >>Message-id: <7bkn9g$6ur$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> > >
> > > >>You snipped John Morris's citation of the Catholic Encyclopaedia article
> > > >>stating that he addressed both Jews and Greeks.
> > >
> > > >Irrelevant,=. Let us stick with the primary source: The words of the
> > > martyred
> > > >saint himself:
> > >
> >

> > Well then Mr B, could you please give us a cite for this primary source. What is
> > the name of the document & where is it from? Which eyewitness to the events
> > wrote down the words attributed to Pionius & how soon afterwards? What steps
> > have been taken to authenticate the document?
> > I think if we can answer those questions then we can indeed discuss this primary
> > source.
> > cheers
> > Charlie Chester
> > Manchester - England

> Looks like you've got him, Joe. When they start demanding that you jump through
> hoops and post this and that, it means they can't answer your point.


Now watch his associate jump to his associate's defense. Jew-hating Joe
posted information from an unspecfied suorce about a Catholic saint. That
information is directly contradicted by the Catholic Encyclopedia. Jew-hating Joe runs
away.

What it means is simple, your associate was caught doing what he brags about
doing:


In article <19990112213243...@ng31.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote: "I post deliberate misinformation . . ."

fled...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
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fled...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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yale_f._edeiken

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
> deb...@aol.com (Debunks) writes:
> >Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: David <Dav...@cableinet.co.uk>
> >Date: 3/5/99 11:37 AM EST
> >Message-id: <36E0084A...@cableinet.co.uk>

> >Charlie Chester wrote:

> Indeed. And I am sure you have already noticed how it is always the SAME


> answer over and over, from the religious disputes ofthe ancients to today.

Yes. It is the truth versus your deliberate misinformation. Here again is
the Catholic position which directly contradicts yours:

Now why don't you stop running away and explain why the Catholic
Church does not agree with you.

Or was it just another proof ofr this:

In article <19990112213243...@ng31.aol.com>,
deb...@aol.com (Debunks) wrote: "I post deliberate misinformation . . ."

"hello? antone out there 12-14 e-mail me. i am thirteen and . .
.well if you e-mail me at jbel...@sprynet.com you can find out more about me i
am a female."

--YFE

The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/
The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/

The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/


fled...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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yale_f._edeiken

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
> deb...@aol.com (Debunks) writes:
> >Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: Yale F. Edeiken

> >Date: 3/4/99 1:45 PM EST
> >Message-id: <36df6...@news3.enter.net>

> >Which is contrary to the Catholic Encylcopedia which reflects Catholic
> >teaching note that the text which Jew-hating Joe snipped specifically states that
> >Pionius was executed for refusing to make pagan sacrifices, a position which Jews of
that -- or
> >any other era -- approved:

> Yet they were in the crowd goading the executioner's on.

Please tell us where that is stated in the entry in the Catholic Encylcopedia which
you run from in fear:

Please note that, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia he was was taken to the
forum after his arrest on February 23 where he made his oration. AFTER he spoke he was
taken to prison, tried, and executed on March 12 -- three weeks later. There is no mention
of either Greek or Jews at his execution.

It is readily apparent why you snipped the entry. It proves you a liar once again.

In other words, Jew-hating Joe, you have been proved a liar. Again.

But you have already admitted that:

fled...@my-dejanews.com

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fled...@my-dejanews.com

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fled...@my-dejanews.com

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fled...@my-dejanews.com

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Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
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Ed Kadach

unread,
Mar 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/5/99
to
Yale, F., Edeiken wrote:

>
> > David <Dav...@cableinet.co.uk> writes:
>
> > Charlie Chester wrote:
>
> > > > Debunked wrote in message
> <19990304044247...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
> > > > >>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> > > > >>From: fled...@my-dejanews.com
> > > > >>Date: 3/3/99 8:23 PM EST
> > > > >>Message-id: <7bkn9g$6ur$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> > > >
> > > > >>You snipped John Morris's citation of the Catholic Encyclopaedia article
> > > > >>stating that he addressed both Jews and Greeks.
> > > >
> > > > >Irrelevant,=. Let us stick with the primary source: The words of the
> > > > martyred
> > > > >saint himself:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well then Mr B, could you please give us a cite for this primary source. What is
> > > the name of the document & where is it from? Which eyewitness to the events
> > > wrote down the words attributed to Pionius & how soon afterwards? What steps
> > > have been taken to authenticate the document?
> > > I think if we can answer those questions then we can indeed discuss this primary
> > > source.
> > > cheers
> > > Charlie Chester
> > > Manchester - England
>
> > Looks like you've got him, Joe. When they start demanding that you jump through
> > hoops and post this and that, it means they can't answer your point.
>
>
> Now watch his associate jump to his associate's defense. Jew-hating Joe
> posted information from an unspecfied suorce about a Catholic saint. That
> information is directly contradicted by the Catholic Encyclopedia. Jew-hating Joe runs
> away.
>
> What it means is simple, your associate was caught doing what he brags about
> doing:
>
> In article <19990112213243...@ng31.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
> (Debunks) wrote: "I post deliberate misinformation . . ."
>
>
> --YFE


You're a hemorroid, Edeiken, and the most fond dream of all you
hemorrhoids is to be a healthy asshole that can be painlessly wiped.


Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

fled...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
to
In article <19990305164258...@ng114.aol.com>,

deb...@aol.com (Debunks) wrote:
> >Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: David <Dav...@cableinet.co.uk>
> >Date: 3/5/99 11:37 AM EST
> >Message-id: <36E0084A...@cableinet.co.uk>
> >
> >
> >
> >David

> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Indeed. And I am sure you have already noticed how it is always the SAME
> answer over and over, from the religious disputes ofthe ancients to today.
>

Joe. I'm writing this slowly because I realise that you can't read quickly.
John Morris cited a reputable source, the _Catholic Encyclopaedia_, on the
martyrdom of St Pionius. He was executed by the secular authorities of the
Roman empire. You seem to be alleging that these secular authorities were 'the
Jews'. This is beyond hogwash.


Fragano Ledgister @ Dejanews
Mia irmana fremosa, treides comigo
a la igrexa de Vigo, ú é o mar salido,
e miraremolas ondas.

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

fled...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
to
In article <19990305163906...@ng114.aol.com>,

deb...@aol.com (Debunks) wrote:
> >Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: "David Gehrig" <zem...@antihormeltref.soltec.net>
> >Date: 3/4/99 11:54 PM EST
> >Message-id: <UrJD2.233$e61....@news13.ispnews.com>
> >
> >In article <19990304223127...@ng-fw1.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com

> >(Debunks) wrote:
> >
> >>>Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >>>From: John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris)
> >>>Date: 3/4/99 5:36 AM EST
> >>>Message-id: <36e30cf3...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
> >>>
> >>>In <19990303161726...@ng94.aol.com>, on 3 Mar 1999
> >>>21:17:26 GMT, deb...@aol.com (Debunks) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>From: John....@xmunge.UAlberta.CA (John Morris)
> >>>>>Message-id: <36dc75d2...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
> >>>
> >>>>>From the Catholic Encyclopedia
> >>>
> >>>>>St. Pionius
> >>>
> >>>>SNIP
> >>>
> >>>>And to whom, then, O Mighty mouse, was Pionius addressing before he was
> >>>>martyred?--The ROMANS? LOL!
> >>>
> >>>Nope. The citizenry of Smyrna, Greeks and Jews.
> >>>
> >>>Who was the civil authority in Smyrna in 250 AD?
> >>>
> >>>[rambling antisemitica deleted]
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>> John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
> >>> at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
> >>
> >>I don't give a damn. It was the Jews who incited the authorities to murder
> >>these innocent people. It was standard practice.
> >
> >Once again, Joe proves you can't do the goosestep without jerking your
> >knees.
> >
> >@%<
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> You know it is a fact and the words of the dying martyr himself proves it so.
>

They prove no such thing.

What next, I wonder? Will you be alleging that Socrates was martyred by the
Jews? That it was a Jewish plot which led the church to canonise the Buddha?
That the Jews fomented the Monophysite heresy? That Pelagius was an agent of
the Mossad? That Attila the Hun was Jewish? I can't wait.

fled...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
to
In article <19990305164157...@ng114.aol.com>,

deb...@aol.com (Debunks) wrote:
> >Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: Charlie Chester <gu...@csu.ac.uk>
> >Date: 3/5/99 8:44 AM EST
> >Message-id: <36DFDFCF...@csu.ac.uk>
> >
>
> >Well then Mr B, could you please give us a cite for this primary source. What
> >is
> >the name of the document & where is it from? Which eyewitness to the events
> >wrote down the words attributed to Pionius & how soon afterwards? What steps
> >have been taken to authenticate the document?
> >I think if we can answer those questions then we can indeed discuss this
> >primary
> >source.
> >cheers
> >Charlie Chester
> >Manchester - England
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I do not think that is necessary Charlie. Have a nice day.
>

Zen Master One: When a liar stands still, we call it a liar. What do we call a
liar running for cover?

Zen Master Two: Joe Bellinger.

fled...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
to
In article <19990305164104...@ng114.aol.com>,

deb...@aol.com (Debunks) wrote:
> >Subject: Re: St. Pionius Martyred by Romans
> >From: Yale F. Edeiken
> >Date: 3/4/99 1:45 PM EST
> >Message-id: <36df6...@news3.enter.net>
> >
>
> >Which is contrary to the Catholic Encylcopedia which reflects Catholic
> >teaching
> >note that the text which Jew-hating Joe snipped specifically states that
> >Pionius was executed
> >for refusing to make pagan sacrifices, a position which Jews of that -- or
> >any other era --
> >approved:
>
> Yet they were in the crowd goading the executioner's on. To the Jews,
> Christians were idolators for claiming Christ was the Son of the Living God.
>

Might we have the evidence for these assertions? If you have no evidence it
will be clear that, once again, you have lied.

fled...@my-dejanews.com

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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fled...@my-dejanews.com

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Mar 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/6/99
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fled...@my-dejanews.com

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fled...@my-dejanews.com

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fled...@my-dejanews.com

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fled...@my-dejanews.com

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