Coming Soon To A Nazihunter Page near you: Details of Michael David's Bankruptcy
Marduk
NAZIHUNTER
news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!
feed.textport.net!hub.org!hub.org!not-for-mail
From: Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Coming Soon To A Nazihunter Page near you: Details of Michael
David's Bankruptcy
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:08:49 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Babylonians "R' Us
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On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:08:49 +0000 (UTC), Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk) wrote:
>We have just obtained the South African records.
<END>
Who else uses tht.net? Who is associated with the person who uses tht.net?
Perhaps Nazihunter's real identity just may be a person who has as a
monogram the G.K. (not G.F. as many believe) and has as a nym the name of
a rock band from decades ago which is also a breed of bird but subtract
the N at the end. Get my drift people?
For the records:
http://www.geektools.com/cgi-bin/proxy.cgi
Registrant:
The Higher Technology (THT2-DOM)
122-250 The East Mall Suite #1601
Toronto, ON M9B6L3 CA
Domain Name: THT.NET
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:
Administrator, THT (AT145-ORG) ad...@THT.NET
The Higher Technology
122-250 The East Mall Suite #1601
Toronto, ON M9B6L3 CA
416-410-3214 Fax- 416-875-5148
<END>
All of Nazihunter's traceable ISPs have been from Toronto and all of his
death threat calls have been traced to some sort of call forwarder ( the
telephone equivalent of an e-mail remailer because law enforcement stops
there)
Who has connections in Toronto? Whose interests are being served with this
ongoing harassment?
LOOK!
http://x56.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=678126612
Subject: Please call Me Late Nights - to Discuss
Date: 10/06/2000
Author: jwinkler <jwin...@NAMBLA.fags.net>
[...]
Golan Klinger
(alias 'Falco') (Nizkor director, owner of Nizkor website,
founder and director of Vex.net, board member Icomm,
director The Cain Gang)
263 Adelaide Street West
Suite 400
Toronto Ontario
416-966-0461
Alternative address for Golan Klinger
c/o Vex.net (or c/o The Cain Gang)
207 Gamble Avenue
Toronto Ontario
Canada M4J 2P4
Tel. 416-425-1212
http://www.geektools.com/cgi-bin/proxy.cgi
Registrant:
The Cain Gang Ltd
207 Gamble Avenue
Toronto, Ontario M4J 2P4 CA
Domain Name: VEX.NET
(It all points back to Toronto!)
http://x66.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=712400666
"The Nizkor URLs, of course, are in Toronto..."
Ken McVay 01/06/2001
http://x67.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=713112596
"David Irving wrote to McVay:
I HAVE made a few inquiries, and would it be right to state as follows:
NIZKOR "maintains a base address at No. 462 - 1150 North Terminal Avenue,
Nanaimo, British Columbia, on the Pacific coast of Canada. The funding
details on the actual site make plain that it is partially funded by the
ADL, the Anti-Defamation League of the B'nai Brith, which has headquarters
in New York and Washington. The Webmaster of the site is Kenneth M McVay,
whose telephone number is given as 416 - 966 0461, a Toronto telephone
number in eastern Canada. The domain servers are listed as ns.vex.net and
ns2.reptiles.org. The name server, ns.vex.net is a corporation
administered by (and financially accountable to) a Mr Golan Klinger who
operates out of No. 263 Adelaide Street West, Suite 400, Toronto,
Ontario."
I've always been told-- follow the money trail. Every time Nazihunter has
harassed me I never think of the other common elements so I should ask
myself-- "Whose ox am I goring at the time Nazihunter harasses me?" Who
would be interested in having me intimidated into silence?
Just some things to think about!
Doc Tavish
BTW here other announcements by Nazihunter and I will show them in a reply
type format:
Subject title: Re: Coming Soon To A Nazihunter Page near you: Details of
Michael David's Bankruptcy
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:08:49 +0000 (UTC), Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk) wrote:
>We have just obtained the South African records.
One only wonders who the "We" is. If I were david Michael I would check to
see if any subpoenas were issued from Allentown to South Africa!
<END>
Subject title: Re: David Michael": The Alfred Rosenberg of alt.revisionism
[...]
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:07:08 +0000 (UTC), Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk) wrote:
[...]
>In alt.revisionism it is David E. Michael. His Ph.D. from a fourth-rate
>university has given him a stature without peer amongst the neo-nazi morons of
>alt.revisionism. This despite the fact that records show that the man is
>largely a failure at whatever he touches. He had emigrated to South Africa in
>the 80s to start a consulting firm. He was largely unsuccesful at this, and his
>primary business was declared insolvent. Ultimately, he left South Africa to
>return to England, where he now attempts to eke out a living with the same
>obscure consultancy business.
Attention David Michael-- check to see if subpoenas originated from
Allentown. I am not saying hwat was posted is correct BUT Nazihunter seems
to have gained some knowledge about you and is distorting it. You aren't
goring Nizkor but you have humiliated Nizkor's man with the information--
Yale F. Edeiken!
---
"I do not deny that Jews were involved in establishing the Communist
regime... Jews are taught to uphold the downtrodden, and that's how
communism came about." Susan Cohen 01/19/2001
http://x70.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=717872510
Doktor Tavische
news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!
feed.textport.net!hub.org!hub.org!not-for-mail
From: Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Coming Soon To A Nazihunter Page near you: Details of Michael
David's Bankruptcy
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:08:49 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Babylonians "R' Us
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <94g4ng$nq8$2...@news.tht.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Trace: news.tht.net 980129329 24392 216.126.78.61 (22 Jan 2001 02:08:49
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X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit)
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:08:49 +0000 (UTC), Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk) wrote:
>We have just obtained the South African records.
<END>
For the records:
<END>
LOOK!
[...]
Doc Tavish
>We have just obtained the South African records.
One only wonders who the "We" is. If I were david Michael I would check to
see if any subpoenas were issued from Allentown to South Africa!
<END>
Subject title: Re: David Michael": The Alfred Rosenberg of alt.revisionism
[...]
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:07:08 +0000 (UTC), Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk) wrote:
[...]
>In alt.revisionism it is David E. Michael. His Ph.D. from a fourth-rate
>university has given him a stature without peer amongst the neo-nazi morons of
>alt.revisionism. This despite the fact that records show that the man is
>largely a failure at whatever he touches. He had emigrated to South Africa in
>the 80s to start a consulting firm. He was largely unsuccesful at this, and his
>primary business was declared insolvent. Ultimately, he left South Africa to
>return to England, where he now attempts to eke out a living with the same
>obscure consultancy business.
Attention David Michael-- check to see if subpoenas originated from
Allentown. I am not saying hwat was posted is correct BUT Nazihunter seems
to have gained some knowledge about you and is distorting it. You aren't
goring Nizkor but you have humiliated Nizkor's man with the information--
Yale F. Edeiken!
For the record-- I cancelled this Nazihunter post:
Path: news.flash.net!nntp.flash.net!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!
news-out.usenetserver.com!news3.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!
news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Updated Nazihunter Page on Yoderanium
From: MAR...@NETCOM.COM (NAZIHUNTER)
Organization: ASSYRIANS "R" US
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <j4Na6.139695$f36.5...@news20.bellglobal.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:40:15 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.229.81.144
X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 980131215 64.229.81.144
(Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:40:15 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:40:15 EST
Xref: news.flash.net alt.revisionism:780294
http://members.yoderanium.com/<deleted by Doc Tavish>
<END>
Jeffrey G. Brown
> Who else uses tht.net? Who is associated with the person who uses tht.net?
> Perhaps Nazihunter's real identity just may be a person who has as a
> monogram the G.K. (not G.F. as many believe) and has as a nym the name of
> a rock band from decades ago which is also a breed of bird but subtract
> the N at the end. Get my drift people?
No, fat boy. You're babbling, as usual.
JGB
================================================================== =====
Jeffrey G. Brown jg_b...@my-deja.com
For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
david_michael
Marduk <Mar...@netcom.ca> wrote in message news:94g4ng$nq8$2...@news.tht.net...
> We have just obtained the South African records.
>
David
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Doktor Tavische
news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!
feed.textport.net!hub.org!hub.org!not-for-mail
From: Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Coming Soon To A Nazihunter Page near you: Details of Michael
David's Bankruptcy
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:08:49 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Babylonians "R' Us
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <94g4ng$nq8$2...@news.tht.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Trace: news.tht.net 980129329 24392 216.126.78.61 (22 Jan 2001 02:08:49
GMT)
X-Complaints-To: scr...@hub.org
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit)
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:08:49 +0000 (UTC), Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk) wrote:
>We have just obtained the South African records.
<END>
For the records:
<END>
LOOK!
[...]
http://www.kkcampbell.com/eyenet/1996/net0718.htm
"...Golan Klinger, owner of Toronto internet service provider Vex Net,
even put it up on a big screen at the Metro Convention Centre's COMDEX
computer trade show."
http://www.icomm.ca/founding-board.html
The iComm founding board of directors
Golan Klinger
Golan is the founder of vex.net, the Internet service provider that
donates iComm's connectivity and bandwidth. He is on the board of The
Nizkor Project, a collection of Web sites dedicated to remembering the
Holocaust and refuting those who would deny it.
(No accusations BUT it all points back to Toronto!)
http://x66.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=712400666
"The Nizkor URLs, of course, are in Toronto..."
Ken McVay 01/06/2001
http://x67.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=713112596
"David Irving wrote to McVay:
I HAVE made a few inquiries, and would it be right to state as follows:
NIZKOR "maintains a base address at No. 462 - 1150 North Terminal Avenue,
Nanaimo, British Columbia, on the Pacific coast of Canada. The funding
details on the actual site make plain that it is partially funded by the
ADL, the Anti-Defamation League of the B'nai Brith, which has headquarters
in New York and Washington. The Webmaster of the site is Kenneth M McVay,
whose telephone number is given as 416 - 966 0461, a Toronto telephone
number in eastern Canada. The domain servers are listed as ns.vex.net and
ns2.reptiles.org. The name server, ns.vex.net is a corporation
administered by (and financially accountable to) a Mr Golan Klinger who
operates out of No. 263 Adelaide Street West, Suite 400, Toronto,
Ontario."
I've always been told-- follow the money trail. Every time Nazihunter has
harassed me I never think of the other common elements so I should ask
myself-- "Whose ox am I goring at the time Nazihunter harasses me?" Who
would be interested in having me intimidated into silence? If I do put a
crimp in Nizkor's fund raising who would retaliate? Who did Edeiken send a
personal e-mail to containing my unlisted telephone number and unlisted
address? Who posted it on their site? Who has maintained the diversion
that I am posting the death threats to myself?
LOOK!
http://x67.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=562973403
Subject: Re: Let's play "find the nazihunter"
Date: 12/20/1999
Author: John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
In <83k3pt$240a$1...@news.tht.net> in alt.revisionism, on 20 Dec 1999
02:20:45 GMT, kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>Let's play a game.
Okay. Sounds like fun.
[...]
Nazihunter posts from Toronto. That not such a big "if" as it sounds. The
anonymous Nazihunter's activities take up without a break from the last
date that an identifiable Nazihunter was posting. The style is the same.
The tactics are the same. The message is the same. In addition, the
anonymous Nazihunter made several phone calls to his victims--Al Baron, Ed
Kadach, Anthony Sabatini, Istvan Lippai--from Toronto pay phones. One of
those pay phones is in the Eglinton West subway station in Toronto. One
is in the same part northwest Toronto. Interestingly, two other pay phones
were used: one in Collingwood, Ontario and one in Barrie, Ontario, both on
weekends. It almost sounds like he went up to the cottage and stopped in
to make a quick harassing phone call.
(Doc Tavish comment: The last lines indicate to me John Morris knows who
Nazihunter is! He said the above on 12/20/1999.)
I think it's pretty clear that Nazihunter is based in Toronto.
As it happens, none of the private recipients of Yale's e-mail lives in
Toronto.
(Doc Tavish comment: How does John know who and where Edeiken's e-mail
recipient's are and where they live?)
> and that "nazihunter" obtained his information from my
>system.
It is not altogether clear from your logs that Nazihunter obtained his
information from your system. Anybody who wants to check can see that the
first Usenet post of Scott Bradbury's address was time-stamped 1:04 hrs
after Yale's e-mail was sent. The mail was sent at 17:10 EST and the
information posted in Usenet at 18:14. The first file access activity in
your log--assuming it is complete--was at 18:53 hrs 1:43 hrs after the
e-mail was sent.
>The first inspection, at 18:53 EST, came from Ottawa:
No. The IP number is assigned to a block used by WorldLinx in
Toronto.
> - - [14/Dec/1999:18:53:10 -0500]
>"GET /ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/references HTTP/1.0" 200 4387
(Doc Tavish comment: McVay's Nizkor keeping files on private citizens
resulted in me being criminally harassed for over a year. McVay also
admits he got my unlisted address and telephone number from
Yale F. Edeiken which I will prove later.)
>WorldLinx Telecommunications, Inc. (NETBLK-WORLDLINX-4)
> 160 Elgin Street, Floor 12
> Ottawa, Ontario K1G 3J4
The canonical name is not very informative:
nslookup 206.47.244.59
Canonical name: ch3smc.bellglobal.com
All it tells us is that WorldLinx is part of Bell Canada Global
Services.
[...]
The trace is blocked after step 12, a Toronto district server of
WorldLinx, a subsidiary of Bell Canada. Run an IP block check on step 12.
It belongs to WorldLinx. So does any address under it, and any address
under it is in the same hierarchy.
So we are looking at a file access from Toronto, not Ottawa.
But lets fill in the chronology.
Scott Bradbury's address is then posted from cotse.com under variants on
the name "Scott" or "Bradbury" or "Tavish" to the following newsgroups:
18:14:36 alt.politics.white-power
18:15:14 soc.culture.german
18:15:26 soc.culture.polish
18:15:40 ab.general
18:15:56 soc.culture.jewish
At 18:53, an unknown user from Toronto accesses Bradbury's
information on your website.
Then, at 19:06 EST, the first post of the information comes from
"nazihunter" through cotse.com.
This is followed by messages posted thus:
19:58:10 alt.revisionism
19:58:29 sci.skeptic
19:58:54 soc.culture.jewish
19:59:09 soc.culture.usa
19:59:34 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
19:59:58 alt.conspiracy
Then, very strangely, at 20:18, we get a message test posted to
alt.revisionism by "bloggs" <nazih...@127.0.0.1> from Sympatico in
Toronto. The IP number is a loopback. It stands for "localhost" on your
machine, on my machine, on everybody's machine. But his
NNTP-Posting-Host was 216.209.45.60. That traces to Sympatico, a Bell
Canada subsidiary, with the identical office address to
WorldLinx. Same floor, in fact. And it goes through the same
Toronto hierarchy as the first file access to your file of Scott
Bradbury's address.
Then we get the anonymous AOL user:
>The second and third from an AOL user, who waited an hour, then
>returned for a second look:
>152.163.189.131 - - [14/Dec/1999:21:23:42 -0500]
>"GET /ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/references HTTP/1.0" 200 4387
>152.163.189.131 - - [14/Dec/1999:22:38:30 -0500]
>"GET /ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/references HTTP/1.0" 200 4345
>America Online (NET-ANS-BNET8)
> 12100 Sunrise Valley Drive
> Reston, VA 20191
> US
There is one user on the mailing list who has an AOL account. He lives in
Massachusetts.
Please note that his first file access is 4:13 hrs after Yale's
e-mail was sent and 3:09 hrs after the first Usenet post. Judging from
the flurry of posts preceding this access, he would obviously have had
ample time to gain notice of the violation from Usenet.
>The second from an unfamiliar IP number - someone posting via US
>West:
>63.224.2.43 - - [14/Dec/1999:23:07:32 -0500]
>"GET /ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/references HTTP/1.1" 200 4364
>U S WEST Communications Svcs, Inc. (NETBLK-USW-INTERACT99)
> 600 Stinson Blvd NE
> Minneapolis, MN 55413
This person has a fixed IP number. We all know and love him. Big lovable
cuddly guy. He is not on the mailing list. Unless someone from the
mailing list notified him, he, too, took notice from the Usenet postings.
We are now about 6:00 hrs after Yale's mailing.
>Then I think Mrs. Salzman took a look - she mentioned that she'd
>looked at it, so this is a pretty safe conclusion....
>207.155.169.190 - - [14/Dec/1999:23:34:11 -0500]
>"GET /ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/references HTTP/1.0" 200 4345
>Concentric Research Corp. (NETBLK-CONCENTRIC-CIDR)
> 1400 Parkmoor Avenue
> San Jose, CA 95126-3429
> US
The IP traces to Colorado. There is one other concentric.net user from
Colorado on the mailing list besides the one you identified.
>207.16.154.57 - - [15/Dec/1999:01:12:56 -0500]
>"GET /ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/references HTTP/1.1" 200 4364
>UUNET Technologies, Inc. (NETBLK-NETBLK-UUNETCBLK16)
>NETBLK-UUNETCBLK16 207.16.0.0 - 207.19.255.0
>EnterNet (NETBLK-UU-207-16-152-D1) UU-207-16-152-D1
> 207.16.152.0 - 207.16.159.255
>That would most likely be Mr. Edeiken himself....
Sounds like a safe bet to me. But let's pause here a moment: we are now
8:02 hrs into the story.
[...]
>Ottawa, again..... who do we know who posts from Ottawa....?
No, Ken. Toronto. And let's take one last look at the time-stamp.
Goodness. We are now 27:49 hours into the story, and your own logs show
file access activity spanning more than 26 hours.
I'm having a wee small problem with your story, Ken. In Message-ID:
<839lhi$cdq$1...@news.tht.net>, you claimed that the file containing Scott
Bradbury's address and telephone number sat on your server for a mere 90
minutes:
I posted it on Nizkor for about 90 minutes, until I realized,
on reflection, that it was the wrong thing to do, and deleted
it...
You could have been mistaken. Maybe you thought 26 hours was a
day-and-a-half, and you got that mixed up in your head as an
hour-and-a-half, and it came out as 90 minutes. You must have made the
same mistake again, because in Message-ID:
<83bkho$2ute$1...@news.tht.net> you said:
The Bradbury file was not added to the "What's New" page, and there is
no notifier on the "Latest Files" page, since it can change from minute
to minute throughout the day. In addition to that, the cgi script that
maintains the filesystem only fires up 7 times per day, at 5 minutes past
the hour. The file could have sat there for an hour or two before it would
be listed.
[...]
You know what I think? I think you're trying to throw us off the track.
I think you are trying to implicate Gord McFee as Nazihunter when you know
damned well that Gord McFee is not Nazihunter.
First of all, as I pointed out above, the first Usenet post came 1:04 hrs
after Yale's mail message. That's 39 minutes before the first file access
activity on your server. So somebody passed the information along or
posted it themselves before there was activity on your server. That means
it could be any one of the recipients.
But are your server logs as posted the complete logs? Where, for
instance, is the time-stamp for the file creation?
Isn't it rather a remarkable coincidence that an unknown user from Toronto
accessed the file from your server so close--so much closer than anyone
else--to it's creation time? Isn't it also rather a remarkable
coincidence that an unknown user from Toronto calling himself Nazihunter
all of a sudden posts a test post before any other user even accesses your
files? Strange goings on all at the same time.
I admit that these could be remarkable coincidences. As Michael Shermer
says, million to one odds happen eight times a day in New York City.
But let's also consider that you been caught in *two* lies in this post.
You lied about how long the file was one your server, and you tried to
make it sound as if Gord McFee were Nazihunter.
[...]
In fact, you haven't seen "several" proofs. You have seen only this
information from me. I sent it to you last summer when I was trying to
track down Nazihunter.
Your response: you turned into a classic paranoid and freaked out that I
was a spy for the Holocaust History Project.
But why on earth would I ask Ken McVay about mar...@idirect.com ? Until
today, there was no public connection whatever between you and Marduk.
Then you posted that "I have met 'marduk,' and I know his name. He is, by
no stretch, 'nazihunter.'"
Given that mar...@idirect.com has a sordid history of posting
addresses and telephones numbers in Usenet, how did you reach the
incredible conclusion that he is "by no stretch" Nazihunter. Revisionist
logic? After all Ken, there is ample evidence in
DejaNews that mar...@idirect.com did exactly what Nazihunter does.
But back to the question: why did I ask you if there was no public
connection between you and Marduk?
Well, when Matt Giwer was being mailbombed, I decided to see if I could
help him catch the culprit. And given Marduk's already well-established
history, I suggested publicly that Marduk could not be ruled out as the
mailbomber. That brought this response by private e-mail:
<quote>
Received: from bock.ucs.ualberta.ca (bock.ucs.ualberta.ca
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To: John....@UAlberta.CA
Subject: Re: GIWER'S ANONYMOUS-EMAIL ATTEMPT AT SELF-LIBEL
From: mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk)
Organization: Babylonians 'R Us
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 96 22:03:07 PST
X-Mailer: WinVN 0.99.6
In-Reply-To: <32c693f6...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
References: <5a3opk$i...@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
<32c693f6...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In article <32c693f6...@news.srv.ualberta.ca>, you say...
>I would not rule out the possibility that Marduk was the source
>of the e-mail, and there is a least one other individual who might
>have had a hand in it. If I receive enough e-mail copies, I will
>ask for the cooperation of at least three ISPs.
>
>--
>John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
>--
>The Nizkor Project | http://www.nizkor.org/
that is hardly fair nor accurate. at the very least. you could e-mail me
first, before making such an accustaion.
I would suggest that you query Ken McVay regarding my substantial
financial support of Nizkor's good works as proof that we are on the same
side.
</quote>
Well, I kind of shrugged it off way back then at the end of 1996. I kind
of just shook my head and asked myself, "Who is this asshole who posts
people's addresses and telephone numbers and makes harassing phone calls
and thinks he's a 'good guy' because he gives Ken McVay twenty bucks?"
But I remembered the e-mail, and that's why I asked you if you could help
me track down the bastard who'd been posting people's addresses and
telephone numbers. You refused.
But it wasn't twenty bucks, was it Ken? When he said "substantial
financial support," he didn't mean twenty bucks or a hundred bucks, did
he?
In fact, he was talking about thousands of dollars. He was talking about
the money that bought you a new computer and enabled you to pay a small
salary to a webmaster at Nizkor. He was talking about the money that kept
the Nizkor Project afloat in 1996 before you
discovered icomm.ca and Golan Klinger.
I remember, Ken,--and I have the nizkor-l and hlist e-mail--how proud and
happy you were about the anonymous donor who had turned Nizkor into a real
website.
Do I smell self-interest here? You bet I do.
You've gone out of your way to cover your ass from the get-go. You
released information that you didn't have to release describing Yale
Edeiken as the source of the address information. You've pretended that
Scott Bradbury was just some kid in your killfile even though you saw fit
to create a web page that would materially damage Yale's lawsuit just for
the killfiled kid, Scott Bradbury. You've tried to shift the blame for
your web page onto Yale Edeiken and Gord McFee. You've lied about how long
the file was available. You've tried to cover up the fact that a major
donor to your website has a history of harassing people not only in
Usenet, but in the real world. You've denied that your major donor can be
connected to the name and practices of Nazihunter.
But is this all just to cover your ass and protect a major donor? Is even
just an exercise in fucking over Yale Edeiken? Or is there a bigger game
afoot?
To be continued.
- --
John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA> at
University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
~~End of DejaCom Archival Excerpts~~
Also see: http://x67.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=646922926
Remember folks the above was dialogue between Ken McVay and John Morris
exclusively!
Here is how Ken McVay got my unlisted address and unlisted telephone
number:
http://x66.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=561622291
Subject: Re: Andrew spams again
Date: 12/16/1999
Author: Kenneth McVay OBC <kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org>
I don't like posting email as a rule, although I confess I have done, but
I have received email I consider somewhat abusive from Mr. Edeiken, and am
compelled to respond, and to do so initially by sharing his outburst with
you:
<!--Begin email cut and paste-->
I hope you're you fucking son of a bitch.
I suggest you mae some response to this.
Make it hard and make it fast.
--yfe
<!--End email cut and paste-->
He includes a UseNet article (see References, above) in which David
Michaels apparently said (the article has not arrived on my server yet):
<!--Begin UseNet quote-->
Since you have just been roundly rapped over the knuckles by your 'boss',
Mr McVay, for apparently conspiring to incite violence against a poster in
this newsgroup, I think that perhaps you should keep a low profile lest
the details of your sordid behaviour find their way to your superiors in
Pennsylvania.
David
<!--End UseNet quote-->
You may recall that Mr. Edeiken said
"Make it hard and make it fast."
and so I must. Here is my response, Mr. Michael:
I am not now, nor have I ever been, Mr. Edeiken's boss. Further, Mr.
Edeiken has no connection with the Nizkor Project, and has not had one
since mid-July, when I removed him from a Nizkor mailing list. For 1998
and 1999, the only real connection Mr. Edeiken had with Nizkor was making
you look foolish with respect to the Himmler tape.
With respect to your interpretation of my words, I can only suggest that
you read them again:
<exact copy>
To be fair, one should also ask how nazihunter got the name and
address in the first place, shouldn't one?
Yale Edeiken distributed it to a holocaust-history.org mailing list, and
to a few, including me, outside the list. If you are going to condemn
nazihunter, as you properly are, then should you not also ask what Yale
hoped to achieve by distributing the address in the first place?
I posted it on Nizkor for about 90 minutes, until I realized, on
reflection, that it was the wrong thing to do, and deleted it... so, in
the end, it could have come from anywhere... but it originated with
someone who should have known better, as he himself had been the target of
a similar attack.
<copy ends>
If that is what you feel Mr. Edeiken meant to achieve, that is your
opinion, one I am not prepared to share.
However, I think it would have been hypocritical of me to remain silent,
all the while knowing where the information came from, while others were
being justifiably pilloried for making improper use of it.
Who is to be blamed more? The person wielding the weapon, or the one who
provided it? You tell me.
[Posted and emailed]
--
The Nizkor Project An Electronic Holocaust Education Resource
Ken McVay, Director http://www.nizkor.org/~kmcvay
NetMeeting: Ken McVay ICQ: 7015822
~~End of Exact DejaCom Archive~~
Here is Yale F. Edeiken admitting that he e-mailed my unlisted address and
unlisted telephone number to McVay:
http://x72.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=563041334
Subject: Re: Andrew spams again
Date: 12/20/1999
Author: Yale F. Edeiken <ya...@enter.net>
Fergus McClelland <re...@perdrix.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
news:faxdOHnEHgDROZ...@4ax.com...
> "Yale F. Edeiken" <ya...@enter.net> wrote:
> >Fergus McClelland <re...@perdrix.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
> >news:J7pZOIj+KpQFqo...@4ax.com...
> >> cata...@concentric.net (Sara Salzman) wrote:
> >> I think it wrong to give Tavish's details to a list, (though I can
> >> understand the pressure that may have led him to do so)
Yale F. Edeiken replies:
> > Save it for the next time you are running for office.
> It seems the best mitigation for your action to me.
Yale F. Edeiken replies:
Nope. The best defense is the complete one. That it went to people
who had been victimized by Bradbury.
In fact, McVay's nonsense is just that. As all the recipients of the
e-mail except Ken knew was that there were then motions pending including
barring Bradbury from obtaining such material from me because of his
invasions of privacy and threats.
(Notice the hypocrisy of Edeiken! Doc Tavish comment)
~~End of DejaCom Archival Excerpt~~
For the record the subpoena used to deny me my civil rights turns out to
be an illegal subpoena which isn't even registered in court records or the
docket!
See: http://x53.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=717410297&fmt=text
"MUST READ! An Example of a Pathological Liar and Examples of Attorney
Yale F. Edeiken's Lies R 2" Just count all of the lies people!
http://x53.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=717699049&fmt=text
"Question-- If A Subpoena Is Issued by The Court Wouldn't It Show Up on
the Docket?" Shorter and more to the point version.
Just some things to think about!
Doc Tavish
BTW here other announcements by Nazihunter and I will show them in a reply
type format:
Subject title: Re: Coming Soon To A Nazihunter Page near you: Details of
Michael David's Bankruptcy
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:08:49 +0000 (UTC), Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk) wrote:
>We have just obtained the South African records.
One only wonders who the "We" is. If I were David Michael I would check to
see if any subpoenas were issued from Allentown to South Africa!
<END>
Subject title: Re: David Michael": The Alfred Rosenberg of alt.revisionism
[...]
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:07:08 +0000 (UTC), Mar...@netcom.ca (Marduk) wrote:
[...]
>In alt.revisionism it is David E. Michael. His Ph.D. from a fourth-rate
>university has given him a stature without peer amongst the neo-nazi morons of
>alt.revisionism. This despite the fact that records show that the man is
>largely a failure at whatever he touches. He had emigrated to South Africa in
>the 80s to start a consulting firm. He was largely unsuccesful at this, and his
>primary business was declared insolvent. Ultimately, he left South Africa to
>return to England, where he now attempts to eke out a living with the same
>obscure consultancy business.
Attention David Michael-- check to see if subpoenas originated from
Allentown. I am not saying what was posted is correct BUT Nazihunter seems
to have gained some knowledge about you and is distorting it. You aren't
goring Nizkor but you have humiliated Nizkor's man with the information--
Yale F. Edeiken!
For the record-- I canceled this Nazihunter post:
Doktor Tavische
>Subject: Re: Let's play "find the nazihunter"
>Date: 12/20/1999
>Author: John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
>
>In <83k3pt$240a$1...@news.tht.net> in alt.revisionism, on 20 Dec 1999
>02:20:45 GMT, kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>
>>Let's play a game.
>
>Okay. Sounds like fun.
>
>[...]
>But why on earth would I ask Ken McVay about mar...@idirect.com ? Until
>today, there was no public connection whatever between you and Marduk.
>Then you posted that "I have met 'marduk,' and I know his name. He is, by
>no stretch, 'nazihunter.'"
More archives connecting Ken McVay to 'marduk':
http://x60.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=563063795&fmt=text
Subject: Re: Let's play "find the nazihunter"
Date: 12/20/1999
Author: Kenneth McVay OBC <kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org>
[...]
John Morris did say:
>But back to the question: why did I ask you if there was no public
>connection between you and Marduk?
You asked me because you knew that Marduk had been a donor at one point,
and you wanted me to tell you who he was - i.e. violate a confidence.
No, I didn't refuse. I said that if your evidence proved that the two
posters were the same, I would consider revealing his identity. You sent
me your "proof," and I was unconvinced, and told you so - primarily
because of the incorrect academic information (he is not an academic,
period, as I told you at the time) you attributed to your man.
[...]
>"Who is this asshole who posts people's addresses and telephone numbers
>and makes harassing phone calls and thinks he's a 'good guy' because he
>gives Ken McVay twenty bucks?"
>
>But I remembered the e-mail, and that's why I asked you if you could
>help me track down the bastard who'd been posting people's addresses
>and telephone numbers. You refused.
No, I didn't refuse. I said that if your evidence proved that the two
posters were the same, I would consider revealing his identity. You sent
me your "proof," and I was unconvinced, and told you so - primarily
because of the incorrect academic information (he is not an academic,
period, as I told you at the time) you attributed to your man.
[charges of self-interest due to source of funding]
>Do I smell self-interest here? You bet I do.
You also think marduk is an academic - he isn't.
You also think I hate Mr. Edeiken - I don't.
You also think I accused Mr. McFee of being Nazihunter - I didn't.
>You've gone out of your way to cover your ass from the get-go. You
>released information that you didn't have to release describing Yale
>Edeiken as the source of the address information. You've pretended
Since Mr. Edeiken was the source, that makes perfect sense.
>You've lied about how long the file was available. You've tried to
>cover up the fact that a major donor to your website has a history of
>harassing people not only in Usenet, but in the real world. You've
>denied that your major donor can be connected to the name and
>practices of Nazihunter.
I not only did not "cover up" Marduk's harrassment in UseNet, I chastised
him for it. That isn't the issue - the issue is that your evidence does
not prove both userid's are the same person - in fact, with respect to the
academic side, your evidence seems to prove that both are _not_ the same
man.
>But is this all just to cover your ass and protect a major donor? Is
>even just an exercise in fucking over Yale Edeiken? Or is there a
>bigger game afoot?
Marduk is not a donor, and has not been for about a year, if memory
serves. I am protecting his identity because I have yet to see
evidence of his guilt. If and when I do, I will release the
information to the police.
--
The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.org
~~End of DejaCom Archival Excerpt~~
http://x60.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=592358354
Subject: Re: Irving accepts evidence of "systematic" gassing in vans
Date: 03/02/2000
Author: John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
In <38BEBDAB...@btinternet.com> in alt.revisionism, on
Thu, 02 Mar 2000 19:14:51 +0000, David E Michael
<david.e...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>John Morris wrote:
>> In <38BDE135...@btinternet.com> in alt.revisionism, on Thu,
>> 02 Mar 2000 03:34:14 +0000, David E Michael
>> <david.e...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> >John Morris wrote:
>> >> In <38BDB86C...@erols.com> in alt.revisionism, on Wed, 01
>> >> Mar 2000 19:40:13 -0500, steve wolk <don...@erols.com> wrote:
>> >> >David E Michael wrote:
>> >> [snip]
>> >> >> Yes, Morris. I know that you think Nazihunter is Golan
>> >> >> Kilnger. What evidence do you have other than the fact that
>> >> >> he lives in Toronto in a street named after a place in
>> >> >> Australia?
>> >> >You are the last person in the world who should be trusted
>> >> >with evidence.
>> >> I daresay. I've never even hinted that Golan Klinger was
>> >> Nazihunter.
>> >> David is very, shall we say, imaginative with the facts.
>> >Interesting. I said Golan Kilnger. You said Golan Klinger.
>> Oh no! Inspector Clouseau has tripped me up!
>Well you evidently know the name from somewhere and I don't believe
>I've seen him posting here. So if you don't believe he's Nazihunter
>(and I don't either) how come you know about him?
According to http://www.deepsky.com/~icomm/board.comm he's a founder of
Vex.net and is on the board of Nizkor. He has a homepage
http://www.vex.net/~falco/.
>> > Now, Mr Morris, if you do not believe that this man is Nazihunter,
>> > how comes you know how to spell his name?
>> I believe he is the owner of Nizkor's ISP, a Toronto-based service
>> provider which provides free web space to public service projects
>> like Nizkor.
>According to http://www.deepsky.com/~icomm/board.comm he's a founder
>of Vex.net and is on the board of Nizkor. (That's quite a revelation
>to me as I had always thought Mr McVay WAS the board of Nizkor.) It
>seems he is on the board of icomm too. Evidently a bigwig in the
>world of ISPs. He has a homepage http://www.vex.net/~falco/ that
>makes it quite clear that he's rather an odd chap.
>> > What precisely is your connection with him?
>> None whatever.
>So how do you know of his connection with Nizkor?
According to http://www.deepsky.com/~icomm/board.comm he's a founder of
Vex.net and is on the board of Nizkor. He has a homepage
http://www.vex.net/~falco/.
>> For misinformation on Golan Klinger, see:
>> http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/History/McVay010398.html
>And if you have no connection with him, how do you know that this
>material is misinformation?
Looks to me that someone did a hasty trace on Nizkor and McVay and it
threw up Klinger's name and telephone number. Irving assumed
(incorrectly it seems) that the telephone number was McVay's.
>> What precisely do you suppose is David Irving's connection with
>> Golan Klinger, M. Clouseau?
>Looks to me that someone did a hasty trace on Nizkor and McVay and
>it threw up Klinger's name and telephone number. Irving assumed
>(incorrectly it seems) that the telephone number was McVay's.
>> >And I just bet we're not going to get a straight answer to that
>> >one.
>> You'd lose again. But that's nothing new for you, you are so
>> useless.
>I don't think I've lost.
Oc course you don't. It would destroy your personality to make such an
admission.
> You're dropping heavy hints that Nazihunter has
>been supporting Nizkor,
I didn't drop any hints. I said quite plainly and clearly that
Marduk had at one time been a substantial donor to Nizkor.
(Doc Tavish comment: This implies you know his real identity!)
> and McVay in particular. David Irving suggests
>that Klinger has been supporting Nizkor. Klinger is based into
>Toronto, so it seems a fair guess that you were obliquely referring
>to Klinger.
I don't care what David Irving suggests. He's as loopy as you are.
- --
John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
~~End of DejaCom Archive~~
http://x60.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=608614609
Subject: Re: NAZI HUNTER: The charade has come to an end
Date: 04/09/2000
Author: John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
In <8cp2m3$544$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> in alt.revisionism, on Sun, 09 Apr 2000
04:58:49 GMT, birk...@my-deja.com wrote:
>How do you know Nazi Hunter is a financial contribtor to Nizkor Mr.
>Morris?
He told me. I still have the e-mail.
>If that was the case I would think Mr. McVay would know the man's
>real name?
Mr. McVay says he is unconvinced that the man who used to post as Marduk
became Nazihunter.
>Or does he just send it with NAZIHUNTER on the envelope? How do you
>know where NAZIHUNTER resides Mr. Morris?
Call display. He uses payphones in northwest Toronto and in the
Barrie-Collingwood area.
> Just tracking down a person's ISP
>doesn't tell you anything. People have thought I've lived in
>California because that is where my server is located at. I happen
>to be 5,000 miles away. How do you know so much about Grant Frame
>and is there any information you can give to corroborate it such as
>the telephone number to the University of Toronto. Never mind, I'll
>look it up on the web.
Look here:
http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/nmc/faculty.htm#top
>Incidentally, I'm inclined to believe what you stated regarding
>Grant Frame. Monday morning I will post what I've found out. I
>intend to talk with the man if he's there.
Why are you going to talk to him?
>How do you know the phone calls are "real" other than what you've
>read on the web? Have the alledged victims contacted you and told
>you they received threatening phone calls.
They've contacted me. I've contacted them. I've looked up the phone
numbers.
Sort of a balance of probabilities, I'd say. A half-dozen witnesses all
describing the same voice, some of them giving me call display information
on telephone numbers.
He also used to post what he said during the phonecalls.
> I don't think Hilary is necessarily full of shit.
Not usually.
>Anything is possible. You didn't specify how she and I are full of
>shit and your response was brief without providing any evidence. You
>we're definitely strong on your convictions but that's about all.
I've been following his escapades for the last eighteen months. But for
the most part, you just going to have to take my word for it. I am, after
all, very keen to see this man prosecuted.
> I hope Mr. McVay pipes in
>here and is deadly honest as he usually is.
I hope so, too.
- --
John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
~~End of DejaCom Archive~~
The following is a real treat:
http://x74.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=647264390
Subject: Re: Tavish adopts a new nym
Date: 07/17/2000
Author: John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
In <bri4ns8adgvhsv2b9...@4ax.com> in alt.revisionism, on
Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:28:06 -0700, Hilary Ostrov
<hos...@uniserve.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:49:00 GMT, in
><u2dp92...@localhost.localdomain>, John Morris
><john....@ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>Hilary Ostrov <hos...@uniserve.com> writes:
>>[snip]
>>> Which does not contain any explanation as to how the nh/nf
>>> persona accomplished the remarkable feat of "countering" a
>>> Bradbury post a full hour and forty minutes before he made it.
>>> Hey, Bradbury, you've already struck out! Why are you still
>>> running away from your very own words?
>>> [...]
>>> >>>>He'd probably make an excellent *revisionist* scholar: one
>>> >>>>often learns so much more from that which they choose *not*
>>> >>>>to address, than from that which they do.
>>Is that like when Hilary has to invent an accomplice to account for
>>the fact that Nazihunter's attacks originate from a cable modem
>>account in Toronto?
>Well, I am not The Great Infallible John Morris, but I would say
>that it is more like when TGIJM decides that it is unnecessary to
>address any questions that he has deemed are irrelevant to one of
>his pet theories. But that aside ....
>Perhaps TGIJM would be kind enough to tell us why he has chosen to
>construe a not unreasonable question as a de facto "invention".
The reason is very simple. If you have no evidence to support the
existence of the accomplice, then he is a mere _post hoc_ conjecture to
support your theory that Scott Bradbury posts as Nazihunter.
>Perhaps he would also be kind enough to tell us how he has
>determined that *all* the nh/nf posts and forge cancels "originate
>from a cable modem account in Toronto". Failing that, perhaps he
>could share with us the secret of determining which posts are
>"genuine bona fide nh/nf posts" and which are not.
But I don't have to prove that all of them originate from home.com in
Toronto. By showing that some of them originate from someone who could
not be Bradbury himself, I merely show that not all current Nazihunter
posts originate from Bradbury.
To accommodate that evidence, you have to conjecture an entity, the
accomplice, for whose existence you have no evidence. You see, you have
not yet proved that posts from Toronto came from an accomplice. The
explanation of the accomplice could be accommodated to explain an anomaly
if you had already strong evidence that Bradbury posts as Nazihunter. But
you don't have such evidence.
I, on the other, have loads of evidence that someone from Toronto posted
as Nazihunter up to January 1999. After that, he disappears into total
anonymity. For the purposes of proving that Bradbury posts as Nazihunter,
those posts are as useless to you as they are to me.
Except that now I look again with a more experienced eye, some of those
anonymous services he used were not very anonymous at all. Some of them
have Toronto IP numbers.
>>Is that like when Hilary doesn't attempt to account for why this
>>Toronto accomplice has no other discernible existence in Usenet?
>Well, if Hilary understood what exactly TGIJM deems to constitute
>"discernible existence in Usenet" she would be very happy to attempt
>to account for it.
I'll broaden it. Produce any evidence at all that Scott Bradbury has an
accomplice in Toronto.
> That aside, I find it unfortunate that TGIJM has
>jumped to the conclusion that the postulation of any questions or
><gasp> alternative hypothesis - which does not confirm his pet
>theory - is beneath consideration.
I don't mind alternative hypotheses. What I don't like are alternate
whose evidence falls apart on the first challenge.
>>Is that like when Hilary doesn't attempt to explain why this
>>Toronto accomplice has has made harassing telephone calls to Matt
>>Giwer,
>Which, AFAIK, preceded the subsequent ones by TWO YEARS and was made
>by a then known "discernible" entity who had called himself "marduk"
>and who was posting via a dialup @idirect.com (or .ca) Do correct
>me if I'm wrong.
Correct. Marduk's harassment of Giwer occurred two years or more ago.
>>Anthony Sabatini, Ed Kadach, Al Baron, Istvan Lippai, and Scott
>>Bradbury over the past four years?
>All of which were allegedly made during the past *two* years.
But the harassment activities by Marduk go back to 1996 in
soc.culture.jewish and sci.anthropology.
>And not one of which - to the best of my knowledge - has ever been
>independently confirmed.
Are you questioning my independence?
Do you think I'm in cahoots with racists, or is it just that I am their
useful idiot?
> Nor to the best of my knowledge has there
>ever been any indication that these five "discernible* entities can
>be reliably taken at their word.
Based upon details they revealed to me in private e-mail about the calls,
including call trace information, I vouch for them.
>If I'm not mistaken, TGIJM has indicated that he does take the
>allegations made by these five "victims" at their face value, in
>part (if not in toto):
>a) because the phone calls have been echoed (and/or preceded) by
>postings to usenet containing similar content (and/or addresses and
>phone numbers of the "victims"); and
>b) because their descriptions to him of a "voice" all happened to
>coincide
Given that some of them also provide call trace information, why is this
not reasonably reliable evidence that they are telling the truth about
receiving phone calls?
>I would be interested in knowing your theory regarding why none of
>these "victims" has ever launched a complaint - or taken you up on
>the terms of your offer of assistance to the appropriate
>authorities.
Some of them gave reasons. Some of them are just jerks.
Since Ed Kadach sometimes posts here, I should point out that he gave a
reason. So did Sabatini.
>>What is Hilary not talking about? Why doesn't Hilary want to talk
>>about the e-mail I received from this Toronto accomplice telling me
>>to lay off because he was a major donor to the Nizkor Project?
>Hey, if you want to talk about it, sure ... let's do that! Hilary is
>not aware of any e-mail TGIJM might have received from anyone's
>"accomplice" anywhere. She is, however, aware of an e-mail he
>posted that had been sent to him by <mar...@netcom.ca> - in
>December, 1996. Two years before any of the above noted alleged
>"attacks".
Actually, eight months after:
<quote>
From: mar...@idirect.com (marduk)
Subject: Are You Really as Slug-Like as Your Picture Suggests? Date:
20 Mar 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <ragnaroek1996Ma...@news2.compulink.com>
x-nntp-posting-host: glimpsenet9.idirect.com
alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.society.civil-liberties,can.politic s
Well....as I was perusing your extremely funny web-site, I
came across a photo of yourself. Unfortunately, I was drinking a diet
pepsi at the time, and when I was confronted by your
incredibly ugly face, I spewed all over my screen...
My God man!!!! Where is your sense of public service? The least you
can do is warn people....
Anyways...on to matters nazi and such-like: as a confirmed nazi pig,
you no doubt subscribe to the doctrine of eugenetics. That being the
case, why did you feel justified in procreating? Your son's photo
indicates that he has inherited many of your
slug-like features, so don't you feel that you have rather let the
Aryan side down?
Oh by the way...why have you disconnected your phone number? We had
some awefully funny things to say to you...OINK, OINK.
WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE WE
</quote>
And not just in alt.revisionism:
<quote>
From: mar...@idirect.com (marduk)
Subject: Re: C'MON HARVEY...DOES LISA PAY YOU FOR THIS NONSENSE? Date:
01 Mar 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <ragnaroek1996Ma...@news2.compulink.com>
x-nntp-posting-host: hopenet15.idirect.com
newsgroups: sci.archaeology,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish
In article <lisa.1804...@interport.net>, li...@interport.net
says...
[To Lisa Aaronson]
>Pretty words from someone who make crank calls.
>>Herr Doktor Professor Marduk (DINGIR.AMAR.UTU)
>Lisa
Lets see if I understand this....You are accusing me of making long
distance crank phone calls to you? Hmmmm...it seems that
even (or perhaps especially) frummie women can succumb to
paranoid fantasies... Just out of curiosity, exactly how do you think
I would be able to ascertain your phone number, let alone your location?
And why would I waste money on the likes of you?
</quote>
And let's not forget the famous web pages dedicated to the victims:
<quote>
From: mar...@netcom.ca (marduk)
Subject: COMING SOON: THE GIWER -SWINE PAGE
Date: 23 Aug 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <4vlg4c$4...@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca>
newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Just a short notice announcing the imminent unveiling of
the Giwer-Swine Home Page, a graphic compendium of the more,
hmmmm, shall we say, piggish characteristics of the Giwer-Swine entity.
</quote>
In 1996, we also get the first appearance of Nazihunter also posting from
idirect.ca just like Lisa Aaronson's and Matt Giwer's harasser. And what
does he do? He posts addresses:
<quote>
From: We'llfi...@anywhere.com (NaziHunter)
Subject: TO K...@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU, WHO THINKS JEWS ARE OBNOXIOUS Date:
23 Mar 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <ragnaroek1996Ma...@news2.compulink.com>
x-nntp-posting-host: havocnet3.idirect.com
newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Hey Karl, or should I say Kevin, so you think jews are obnoxious?
Well, then, you're gonna LOVE this:
We got some of your personal information here, and we encourage all the
obnoxious jews out there on the internet to contact you and your employer,
the University of Texas, and ask them how they feel about having a racist
anti-semite on their faculty
k...@mail.utexas.edu is actually:
Kevin J. Hannan
<addresses etc. deletd by Doc Tavish for this posting 01/22/2001>
</quote>
>Hilary is also aware of some obscure but extant posts which would
>probably reinforce the impression anyone might have formed that
>"nazihunter/2000=marduk/1996". For the record, Hilary finds this to
>be a somewhat tenous link at best.
Hilary would. But Hilary believes that a timestamp anomaly and
conjectured accomplice constitute convincing evidence.
Oh, sorry, I don't mean to mischaracterize your evidence. There are also
the coincidences, and Bradbury's inability to explain anomalies.
(Doc Tavish comment January 22, 2001: I expalined myself with these posts
and now with newer proofs:
http://x72.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=716307692&fmt=text
"Open Challenge To ALL of My Enemies -- Show That I Have Ever Posted Using
a Canadian ISP! aka Re: ONE MORE FOR FUN"
http://x66.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=718045809&fmt=text
"Re: Open Challenge To ALL of My Enemies -- Show That I Have Ever Posted
Using a Canadian ISP! aka Re: ONE MORE FOR FUN R 2" End of comments.)
Speaking of coincidences, since you are so big on them, here is the
remarkable coincidence you like to dismiss:
<quote>
From: mar...@idirect.com (marduk)
Subject: test
Date: 20 Mar 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <ragnaroek1996Ma...@news2.compulink.com>
x-nntp-posting-host: hopenet7.idirect.com
newsgroups: alt.what.the.hell
test
</quote>
<quote>
From: We'llfi...@anywhere.com (NaziHunter)
Subject: Re: test
Date: 23 Mar 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <ragnaroek1996Ma...@news2.compulink.com>
x-nntp-posting-host: hopenet13.idirect.com
reply-to: ma...@bisher.com
newsgroups: alt.what.the.hell
In article <ragnaroek1996Ma...@news2.compulink.com>,
mar...@idirect.com says...
>
>test
>
teststststst
</quote>
>It is certainly not sufficiently strong to be bandying about the names
>of uninvolved third parties.
So you say.
>>I'll tell you my take on it. Ken is not responsible for the
>>actions of his donors undertaken after the donations were made nor
>>is he responsible to me or anyone else to risk the donor's safety by
>>making his name public. And as Ken himself would say, the
>>independent actions of his donors have no bearing on the truth of the
>>material archived on his website.
>Quite so. But why do you choose to omit the fact that Ken has also
>stated quite clearly that he will disclose any information he might
>have if and/when he is approached by the appropriate authorities?
Good. I would expect no less.
>How does his apparent discounting of TGIJM as an "appropriate authority"
>have any bearing on anything?
Learn to read. I said he is not responsible to me:
". . . nor is he responsible to me or anyone else to risk the donor's
safety by making his name public."
>>On the other hand, if one were to consider if there were
>>ideological interests served by inventing a pseudohistory of a
>>Toronto accomplice,
>Who has invented a "pseudohistory" regarding this matter?
You. So far as I can tell, your "Bradbury is sometimes Nazihunter"
hypothesis has been invented out of whole cloth.
But why? If you aren't trying to obscure the issue on Ken's behalf?
Do you need to invent a tale in order to completely destroy your
opponents?
Do you need to shift all of the harassment activity to the "enemy"?
Or is there some reason you might wish to destroy Yale's lawsuit?
Please feel free to offer your own explanation.
>And while we are on the subject of "pseudohistory", I don't know the source of
>your disinformation pertaining to Nizkor donors in your Dec. 15
>post, but whoever it is has conflated and mischaracterized whatever
>information they think they might have. If you wish to discuss this
>point, feel free to e-mail me.
No. Let's discuss it here.
The source is me. Don't forget, I used to be subscribed to Nizkor mailing
lists. If I've conflated or mischaracterized information, please advise
me.
>>one would immediately think back to the discussion this past
>>January, and it would not be difficult to see what interests are
>>served by obscuring Ken McVay's role in publishing Scott Bradbury's home
>>address and telephone by posting it to the Nizkor website.
>I believe the discussion you speak of took place in December.
>Obscuring Ken's role? Why would you say that, John? Ken readily
>admitted he had placed the information on Nizkor, realized and
>(unlike some) publicly acknowledged his error.
And lied about how long it was there. And tried to implicate Gord McFee
as the source of the first web access. You know: company
headquarters in Ottawa--oooooops--trace goes to Toronto?
> Frankly, I don't think anyone's
>interests have been served by this.
Someone's interests are always served. What is your interest in trying to
make Bradbury into a sometimes Nazihunter?
>But more importantly in light of your uncalled for and unsubstantiated
>attack on Ken above, as you had noted:
><quote>
>It is not altogether clear from your logs that Nazihunter obtained
>his information from your system. Anybody who wants to check can
>see that the first Usenet post of Scott Bradbury's address was
>time-stamped 1:04 hrs after Yale's e-mail was sent. The mail was
>sent at 17:10 EST and the information posted in Usenet at 18:14.
>The first file access activity in your log--assuming it is
>complete--was at 18:53 hrs 1:43 hrs after the e-mail was sent.
></quote>
>http://x57.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=562973403
>To recap the relevant part of that incident, for the record:
>There were 3 postings of the address to a.r. prior to the first hit
>on Nizkor. All came via cotse.com and none mentioned the name
>"nazihunter" or "nazifinder". Subsequent to this, there was a
>"nazihunter" posting of the address (19:06) also via cotse.com. At
>20:18 the entity calling himself bloggs decided to muddy some waters
>using the "nazihunter" nym _and_ leaving himself traceable.
Bloggs? I have his time from a dialup connection in Toronto at
19:18.
Do you think he is related to the bloggs who used a Toronto cable modem
account to test the nym the next day?
<quote>
http://x54.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=561013213&fmt=text
From: "bloggs" <nazih...@test.com>
Subject: tr
Date: 15 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <3857c05a$1...@127.0.0.1>
X-Abuse-Info2: ALL Spam complaints are acted upon within 24 hours!
X-Report: Report abuse to ab...@newsfeeds.com
Sender: "bloggs" <nazih...@127.0.0.1>
X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers,
INCLUDING the body
X-Trace: 15 Dec 1999 10:22:50 -0600, 24.112.80.88
X-Authenticated-User: nazihunter
Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 73,000+
UNCENSORED Newsgroups.
Reply-To: "bloggs" <nazih...@test.com>
X-User-Info: 24.112.80.88 24.112.80.88 nazihunter
Newsgroups: 3b.config
tr
</quote>
(Doc Tavish comments January 22, 2001: The above ISP <24.112.80.88>
renders as: Rogers@Home Ontario (NETBLK-ROGERS-1-BLOCK) ROGERS-1-BLOCK
24.112.0.0 - 24.112.255.255 using:
<http://www.geektools.com/cgi-bin/proxy.cgi>)
>I would be interested in your theory as to why a "discernible"
>entity would use a traceable post *after* the information he
>presumably wanted to make available (however he might have obtained it) had
>already been disseminated anonymously ... and untraceably. This is
>a pattern that appears to have repeated itself during the current
>rash of incidents.
As I say elsewhere, I think he is no longer afraid of being caught.
>As another poster has noted, the timing of these so-called
>nazihunter posts appears to be very closely related to the progress
>of Yale's suit against Bradbury. I would be interested in knowing how you
>think "nazihunter's" actions are serving anyone's "ideological" or
>other "interests" - and whose they might be.
The simplest explanation is that Nazihunter doesn't give a good
goddamn about any interests besides driving hate out of Usenet by means of
threats and intimidation.
>And as for the December incident, what evidence do you have which would
>suggest that if Ken had not placed the address on the website - for
>however long it may have been there - there would have been no posting
>of Bradbury's address in December or of his "brand new unlisted phone number" in
>July?
Since I stipulated in December that it was *not* clear that the
information came from the Nizkor website, your question is
incoherent.
Nazihunter got the information somehow, but how is entirely
conjectural. Given that Ken did not scruple to post the information
publicly, I know where my vote goes.
But getting back to the subject described in the subject header . . .
Do you have any evidence worth the name that Scott Bradbury has been
posting as Nazihunter? And what happned to your theory that Anthony
Sabatini was a sometimes Nazihunter? Did he use the Toronto
accomplice, too?
- --
John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
~~End of DejaCom Archive~~
Paul Kneisel
The universe is so structured that it is possible for Bradbury to be a
useful "idiot" for the racists with whom he is in "cahoots."
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:46:17 GMT, Doktor Tavische
<NOSPAMdo...@my-deja.com>
<0epn6t4et0v6gue0g...@4ax.com> asked:
Orac
> We have just obtained the South African records.
And why, pray tell, should any of us give a rodent's posterior about this? What
does it have to do with the Holocaust, WWII, or Holocaust revisionism/denial?
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"