Friedrich Jeckeln - an unsung Holocaust figure
Eugene Holman
among students of the Holocaust
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/jec1z3.html).
However, he played a key role during the first phase of the Holocaust,
when German policy towards Jews in occupied Eastern Europe was to identify
and ghettoize them, and then kill as many of them as possible, often in
semi-in public mass-shootings on the outskirts of town.
Appointed chief of police for Ostland (= Nazi-occupied Estonia, Latvia,
and Lithuania) and Northrn Russia, Friedrich Jeckeln played an important
part in planning, organizing, and overseeing the implementation of such
actions in which approximately several hundred thousand Jews were killed.
He thus bears the responsibility for being one of the major Nazi mass
murderers.
What kind of a man was Friedrich Jeckerln? The net contains an archive
with scanned copies of 228 documents pertaining to Jeckeln
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/index.html). They
trace his career and shed some light on the life and personality of a
figure who, unlike Rudolf Höß, is an unsung figure of the Holocaust
despite having supervised a substantial part of the day-to-day work of
implementing it and being responsible, like Höß, for having organized the
deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people. Not
surprisingly, Jeckeln received recognition for his work from his
employers. In August 1944 he was awarded the gem-studded Knight's Cross by
Hitler. A year later he was in a Soviet prison as a war criminal along
with the other Nazis who had administered the Baltics from Riga during the
war. Jeckeln was hanged as a war criminal on February 3, 1946
(http://www.heritagefilms.com/LATVIA.html).
According to his excerpt from SS records
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/do9c12/jec228z3.html),
Friedrich Jeckeln was born at Hornberg (Baden) on February 2, 1895. He
began his military service in 1914 just before the outbreak of WW II,
served through the entire war, rising to the rank of lieutenant, and was
released on January 20, 1919. He studied and became an engineer, and when
he was 23 years old he married Charlotte Hirsch, a half-Jew who had an
Aryan mother and a Jewish father, Paul Hirsch. The couple had three
children, but they went their separate ways in 1926. Jeckeln eventually
remarried and had two more children. He was ordered by the local court to
pay maintenance for his estranged family, but he had lost his job as an
engineer and could not find a new one. The bailiffs were unable to seize
any assets from him, and the children's grandfather contributed what he
could towards the family's support.
Friedrich Jeckeln became Nazi Party member no. 163378 on October 10,
1929. He joined the SS shortly after on December 1, 1930, and rose
quickly to the ranks of Standartenführer (June 22, 1931), Oberführer
(Sept. 22, 1931), and Gruppenführer (February 4, 1933).
On February 5, 1932, Jeckeln's estranged wife wrote a personal letter to
Adolf Hitler, who had, of course, not yet become the leader of Germany.
This letter,
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/jec16z3.html)
written by a half-Jew who considers herself a German is worth reproducing
here in its entirety:
To Mr. Adolf Hitler.
Since your movement is a genuinely German one and you want to help the
Germans, perhaps it would also be possible for you to help three German
children obtain what is their due. Your Standartenführer Friedrich
Jeckeln, living in Hannover, has been separated for almost seven years,
that is to say, is living apart from his family. According to a court
decision he, as the person recognized as responsible for the breakdown of
the marriage, has the duty to provide for his first wife and his three
children. Forced by a legal action to take an oath of disclosure, he has
not paid a penny for his children. Instituting new legal action would, of
course, produce no further results, despite the fact that Mr. Jeckeln,
being a Standartenführer, certainly has an income. Up until now, the
children's grandfather has been providing for them, but since the hard
times have resulted in him losing all of his assets in agriculture, it is
impossible for him. On March 5 our plot of land is to be auctioned off and
as a single mother it will then be almost impossible for me to provide for
three chilren in these difficult times, and my parents are also old. My
request is that you make Mr. Jeckeln hand over a part of his income as
Standartenführer for his children.
Respectfully,
Mrs. Charlotte Jeckeln
Herzberg, Post Gottswalde
Danziger Niederung
Freistaat Danzig
************************************************************************
What action Hitler took is unclear, but in 1933 Jeckeln rose to the rank
of Gruppenführer, and by 1936 he was SS-Obergruppenführer, putting him in
the top ranks of the SS generals.
When the broke out in 1939 Jeckeln served on the front in France. When
Germany attacked the USSR, Jeckeln was immediately dispatched by Himmler
to the Ukraine, where, where he was appointed Senior Chief of the Police
and SS for southern Russia and the Ukraine, to oversee the extermination
actions against Jews which had begun there. While there, he perfected the
efficient mode of combining shooting with self-burial which he called
"Sardinenpackung".
Jeckeln's career continued with him being appointed Senior Chief of the
Police and SS for Ostland (= Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) and northern
Russia. He was stationed in Riga where he remained until August 1944.
During his tenure the Einsatzkommandos killed tens of thousands of Jews in
the Baltics and adjacent areas, and tens of thousands more were killed in
carefully organized mass shootings organized in various cities and towns
across the Baltics (see, e,g the map of the ass murders that took place in
Lithuania at
http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/jec211z3.html, and
the listing of and military report on Jews and others killed in the
Baltics under Jeckelns supervisions and coordination as of Dec. 1, 1941 at
http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/jec122z3.html -
http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/jec129z3.html). Many
of these mass-executions were implemented using Jeckeln's famous method:
source: http://vip.latnet.lv/LPRA/fg_stahlecker.htm
[BEGIN QUOTE]
Gertrude Schneider writes in her book Journey into Terror: The Story of
the Riga Ghetto (New York 1979,p.25):
In the forest adjoining the camp [Salaspils], graves had been prepared by
the inmates. After they had undressed, the victims were either shot
immediately at the edge of the graves or else they were ordered to lie
face down between the legs of those already shot, and were then killed.
The latter method saved much-needed space. It was invented by
Obergruppenfuhrer Friedrich Jeckein, who called it Sardinenpackung
(sardine packaging).
This was the renown German efficiency and order: Ordnung muss sein!
Order must prevail!
[END QUOTE]
Jeckeln is perhaps best known for having organized the liquidation of the
Jewish ghetto in Riga which began on November 1941 and ended a week later,
with more than 25,500 Jews from Riga and Berlin being shot and buried
using the efficient Sardinenpackung method.
The best treatment in English of the Riga killings is Andrew Ezergailis,
"The Holocaust in Latvia: 1941-1944", The Historical Institute of Latvia,
Riga, 1996, pgs. 239 - 270. This treatment is based upon military, police,
and municipal records, as well as on an analysis of the various evidence
presented at trials dealing with the Riga shgooting held after the war in
Latvia (1946) and Hamburg (1973, 1975).
It involved identifying, ghettoizing, and sispossessing the entire Jewish
community of Riga, and marching them, 25,000 people, in columns of five
all day long on two days to a rather public place - a hillock some 250
meters from a local railway station and well within seeing and hearing
distance of that station. The entire city of Riga was talking about it by
the afternoon of November 30, 1941:
The mayor of Nazi-occupied Riga (Kommissarischer Oberbuergermeisier) from
1941 to 1944 was a Baltic German, Hugo Wittrock, who detested Latvian
nationalists. He wrote in his memoirs (published posthumously, Lueneburg
1979, pp. 37-38):
source: http://vip.latnet.lv/LPRA/fg_stahlecker.htm
[BEGIN QUOTE]
1941 was drawing to a close when a frightful event happened in Riga. On
the second Sunday of Advent rumors spread throughout the city that on
Hoherer SS- und Polizeifuehrer Jeckeln's orders, Jews had been taken from
the ghetto to a place about 10 kilometers outside Riga, and SS men had
shot them all - men, women, and children - in a mass grave and covered up
the bodies. It was said thousands were shot. When the frightful rumors
turned out to be true and details of the perpetuated crime became known,
there was a general feeling of shock about this inhuman action in the
city.... The local inhabitants... perhaps because of religious feelings
condemned the merciless shooting of unarmed men, women, and children, and
were deeply distressed at this ungodly cruelty. When shortly thereafter I
made the mood in Riga known to the Reichsminister in Berlin [Wittrock's
friend Alfred Rosenberg], I understood from his responses that the
frightful bloodshed was ordered and carried out over his head by higher
authorities.
[END QUOTE]
Gruppenführer Jeckeln organized the action, drew up the timetable, and
selected the killing site. He also coordinated this action with his
superiors in Berlin so that a trainload of German Jews from Berlin would
arrive at the killing site at Rumbula at 6 in the morning to be killed
before the arrival of the first Latvian Jews.
More than 1,700 people are known to have participated in the action,
including several hundred Latvian policemen from the precincts along the
route to the killing site who were issued special orders concerning their
responsibilities on November 30 and December 8. Members of the Latvian
component of the Sicherheitsdienst, the Riga district police, and the
Annas iela battalion of military police were also issued instructions to
participate in various capacities.
From Jeckeln's staff there were:
- Oberstormführer Herbert Degenhart, who accompanied Jeckeln during the
planning stage and, during the implementation stage, communicated and
explained Jeckeln's orders to the other participants.
- Unterstormführer Ernst Hemicker, the designer of the Rumbula pits.
- Sturmbannführer Bruns, collector of valuables at the pits.
- Sturmbannführer Erich Zimmermann, in charge of transport.
- Johannes Zingler, one of the marksmen at the pits.
- Hauptmann Heinrich Oberwinder, coordinator of the work of the Latvian
and German police that participated in the Rumbula massacre. In
particular, he issued detailed orders to the Latvian precinct police who
provided many of the guards who supervised the ten-kilometer line of Jews
marching from the ghetto in central Riga to the killing site.
- Lieutenant Fredrich Jahnke organized the ghettoization of Rigas Jews in
September and October of 1941, as well as the liquidation of the ghetto in
conjunction with the mass shooting.
The Riga massacre was Jeckeln's finest hour, hisn greatest achievement. It
also rvelealed that mass shooting was not a feasible means of resolving
the 'Jewish problem'. Jeckeln's very success proved the logistical
problems and practical limitations on mass shootings. It was a high point
in the first phase of the exterminational phase of the Holocaust, but it
also aroused issues which resulted in the Germans deciding to develp new
and more sanitary methodologies. The Riga massacre was the greates, but
also the last, of the large-scale, semi-public massacres in the parts of
Nazi-occupied Europe under Jeckeln's supervision.
*******************************
Jeckeln proved himself to be a capable administartor and brave soldier.
But the war took its toll on him. In a handwritten personal letter to
Himmler dated May 18, 1944, Jeckeln informs the Reichsführer that his
second son from his first marriage, Klaus, who had a Jerwish mother and an
SS-Obergruppenführer as his father, was had been missing for three months
and had presumably dies a Heldentod - hero's death - on the Eastern Front
in the Ukraine. His youngest son, Dieter, had died when undergoing medical
treatment for a inflammation of the brain on May 13, 1944
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/jec1z68.html). He
recived a personal note of condolence from Himmler on June 1, 1944
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/jec1z177.html. A
few months later Riga fell to the Soviets, and Jeckeln was sitting in one
of the Riga prison's which he had once administered as a war criminal.
He defended his actions as follows:
Source:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/j/jeckeln.friedrich/jeckeln-interrogation.1245
The Interrogation of Friedrich Jeckeln [1]
The shootings were carried out under the direction of
Colonel Dr. Lange, Commander of the SD and Gestapo in
Latvia. Knecht was in charge of security at the liquidation
sites.[2] I, Jeckeln, took part in the shootings on three
occasions; the same holds for Lange, Knecht, Lohse, and
Lieutenant Colonel Osis, commander of the traffic police in
Riga.
Q: Who did the shooting?
A: Ten or twelve German SD soldiers.
Q: What was the procedure?
A: All of the Jews went by foot from the ghetto in Riga to
the liquidation site. Near the pits, they had to deposit
their overclothes, which were washed, sorted, and shipped
back to Germany. Jews-men, women, and children- passed
through police cordons on their way to the pits, where they
were shot by German soldiers.
Q: Did you report the execution of the order to Himmler?
A: Yes, indeed. I notified Himmler by phone that the ghetto
in Riga had been liquidated. And when I was in Loetzen,
East Prussia, in December 1941, I reported in person,
too.[3] Himmler was satisfied with the results. He said that
more Jewish convoys were due to arrive in Latvia, and these
| were to be liquidated by me also.
Q: Go into more detail.
A: At the end of January 1942,[4] I was at Himmler's
headquarters in Loetzen, East Prussia, to discuss
organizational matters regarding the Latvian SS legions.
There Himmler informed me that additional Jewish convoys
were due to arrive from the Reich and from other countries.
The destination point would be the Salaspils concentration
camp, which lay one and a quarter miles from Riga in the
direction of Duenaburg. Himmler said that he had not yet
determined how he would have them exterminated: whether to
have them shot on board their convoys or in Salaspils, or
whether to chase them into the swamp somewhere.
Q: How was the matter resolved?
A: It was my opinion that shooting would be the simpler and
quicker death. Himmler said he would think it over and then
give orders later through Heydrich.
Q: What countries were the Jews in Salaspils brought from?
A: Jews were brought from Germany, France, Belgium, Holland,
Czechoslovakia, and from other occupied countries to the
Salaspils camp. To give a precise count of the Jews in the
Salaspils camp would be difficult. In any case, all the Jews
from this camp were exterminated. But I would like to make
an additional statement while we are on this topic.
Q: What statement would you like to make?
A: I would like to state for the record that Goering shares
in the guilt for the liquidations of Jewish convoys that
arrived from other countries. In the first half of February
1942 I received a letter from Heydrich. In this letter he
wrote that Reich Marshal Goering had gotten himself involved
in the Jewish question, and that Jews were now being shipped
to the East for annihilation only with Goering's approval.
Q: This does not diminish your guilt. Describe your role in
the Jewish liquidations in Salaspils.
A: I have already said that I discussed the extermination of
Jews in Salaspils with Himmler in Loetzen. That alone makes
me an accessory to this crime. Beyond that, Jews were shot
in the Salaspils camp by forces recruited from my SD and
Security Police units. The commander of the SD and Gestapo
in Latvia, Lieutenant Colonel Dr. Lange, was directly in
charge of the shootings. Other officers who reported to me
on the shootings of Jews in the camp were the commander of
the SD and Gestapo in the Baltic States, Major General Jost;
Colonel of Police Pifrader; and Colonel of Police Fuchs.
Q: Specifically, what did they report to you?
A: They reported that two to three convoys of Jews were to
arrive per week, all subject to liquidation.
Q: Then the number of Jews shot in Salaspils ought to be
known too, isn't that correct?
A: Yes, of course. I can give you the approximate figures.
The first Jewish convoys arrived in Salaspils in November
1941. Then, in the first half of 1942, convoys arrived at
regular intervals. I
believe that in November 1941, no more than three convoys
arrived in all, but during the next seven months, from
December 1941 to June 1942, eight to twelve convoys arrived
each month.
Overall, in eight months, no less than fifty-five and no
more than eighty-seven Jewish convoys arrived at the camp.
Given that each convoy carried a thousand men, that makes a
total of 55,000 to 87,000 Jews exterminated in the Salaspils
camp.
Q: This figure sounds low. Are you telling the truth?
A: I have no other, more exact figures. It should be added,
however, that before my arrival in
Riga, a significant number of Jews in the Ostland and in
White Ruthenia were exterminated. I was informed of this
fact.[5]
Q: By whom, specifically?
A: Stahlecker; Pruetzmann; Lange; Major General Schroder,
the SS and Police Leader in Latvia;
Major General Moeller the SS and Police Leader in Estonia;
and Major General Wysocki the SS and Police Leader in
Lithuania.
Q: Be specific. What did they report?
A: Schroeder reported to me that over and above those Jews
who had been exterminated in the ghetto in Riga an
additional 70,000 to 100,000 Jews were exterminated in
Latvia. Dr. Lange directly oversaw these shootings. Moeller
reported that in Estonia everything was in order as far as
the Jewish question was concerned.
The Estonian Jewish population was insignificant, all in all
about 3,000 to 5,000 and this was reduced to nil. The
greater part were exterminated in Reval. Wysocki reported
that 100,000 to 200,000 Jews were exterminated-shot-in
Lithuania, on Stahlecker's orders. In Lithuania, the Jewish
exterminations were overseen by the commander of the SD and
Gestapo, Lieutenant Colonel of Police Jaeger. Later Jaeger
told me that he had become neurotic as a result of these
shootings. Jaeger was pensioned off and left his post for
treatment. All told, the number of Jews exterminated in the
actions in the Baltic East reached somewhere in the vicinity
of 190,500 to 253,500.[6]
Notes:
1. Minutes from Jeckeln's interrogation on 14 December 1945
(Major Zwetajew, interrogator; Sergeant Suur, interpreter),
pp. 8-13, Historical State Archives, Riga.
2. Max Knecht was the commander of the municipal police in
Latvia.
3. I.e., to Himmler's "Hochwald" headquarters in Loetzen.
4. I.e, 25 January 1942, 11:30 A.M. - 1:00 P.M.; per RFSS
appointments book, NS 19 DC/vorl. 12, Bundesarchiv, Koblenz.
On the same day Himmler made the following handwritten
entry, re: his telephone conversation "from the Wolfsschanze
17 [i.e., 5:00 EM.] SS Gr.F. Heydrich Prague: Jews into the
concentration camps" NS 19/neu 1439 Bundesarchiv, Koblenz.
5. Jeckeln was promoted on 31 October 1941 to Higher SS and
Police Leader for northern Russia (H.Q. Riga); Jeckeln,
personnel file, Berlin Document Center. A second promotion
to the rank of Leader of the SS Upper Section, "Ostland,"
occurred on 11 December 1941 (Bundesarchiv, Koblenz [NS 19
neu/2846]).
6. In reply to telegram number 1331 from the Security Police
of Riga (dated 6 February 1942), SS-Standartenfuehrer Karl Jaeger
reported the following from Kovno on 9 February 1942:
"Re: executions through 1 February 1942 by the Einsatzkommando 3A:
Jews: 136,421. Total: 138,272, of these, women: 55,556; children: 34,464"
(Institut fuer Zeitgeschichte 3253/63 Fb 76 [a]).
Jeckeln was hanged on on February 3, 1946
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
among students of the Holocaust
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/jec1z3.html).
However, he played a key role during the first phase of the Holocaust,
when German policy towards Jews in occupied Eastern Europe was to identify
and ghettoize them, and then kill as many of them as possible, often in
semi-in public mass-shootings on the outskirts of town.
Appointed chief of police for Ostland (= Nazi-occupied Estonia, Latvia,
and Lithuania) and Northrn Russia, Friedrich Jeckeln played an important
part in planning, organizing, and overseeing the implementation of such
actions in which several hundred thousand Jews were killed. He thus bears
the responsibility for being one of the major Nazi mass murderers.
What kind of a man was Friedrich Jeckerln? The net contains an archive
with scanned copies of 228 documents pertaining to Jeckeln
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/index.html). They
trace his career and shed some light on the life and personality of a
figure who, unlike Rudolf Höß, is an unsung figure of the Holocaust
despite having supervised a substantial part of the day-to-day work of
implementing it and being responsible, like Höß, for having organized the
deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people. Not
surprisingly, Jeckeln received recognition for his work from his
employers. In August 1944 he was awarded the gem-studded Knight's Cross by
Hitler. A year later he was in a Soviet prison as a war criminal along
with the other Nazis who had administered the Baltics from Riga during the
war. Jeckeln was tried and hanged as a war criminal on February 3, 1946
(http://www.heritagefilms.com/LATVIA.html).
According to his excerpt from SS records
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/do9c12/jec228z3.html),
Friedrich Jeckeln was born at Hornberg (Baden) on February 2, 1895. He
began his military service in 1914 just before the outbreak of WW II,
served through the entire war, rising to the rank of lieutenant, and was
released on January 20, 1919. Aftr the war he studied engineering and
worked in his profession. When he was 23 years old he had married
Charlotte Hirsch, a half-Jew who had an Aryan mother and a Jewish father,
Paul Hirsch. The couple had three children, but they went their separate
ways in 1926. Jeckeln eventually remarried and had two more children by
his second wife. He was ordered by the local court to pay maintenance for
his estranged family, but he had lost his job as an engineer and could not
find a new one. The bailiffs were unable to seize any assets from him, and
the children's grandfather contributed what he could towards the family's
support.
Friedrich Jeckeln became Nazi Party member no. 163378 on October 10,
1929. He joined the SS shortly after on December 1, 1930, and rose
quickly to the ranks of Standartenführer (June 22, 1931), Oberführer
(Sept. 22, 1931), and Gruppenführer (February 4, 1933).
On February 5, 1932, Jeckeln's estranged wife wrote a personal letter to
Adolf Hitler, who had, of course, not yet become the leader of Germany.
This letter,
(http://motlc.wiesenthal.org/specialcol/instdoc/d09c12/jec16z3.html)
written by a half-Jew who considers herself a German is worth reproducing
here in its entirety:
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
When the war broke out in 1939 Jeckeln served on the front in France. When
Germany attacked the USSR in 1941, Jeckeln was immediately dispatched by
DaveVH
Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1407...@f24-134-6.pc.helsinki.fi...
<snipped>
Excellent post, that. I never knew about the stuff going on in the Baltic
States, and they seem to have been even more efficient and ruthless than in
Poland.
I'm curious to know why Jews there were simply arrested and marched directly
to their deaths. Were there no factories, or was it thought uneconomical to
set them up in such a distant area?
---
- DaveVH
susie
.uk>, DaveVH <big_bug...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
I am too, Dave. I've enjoyed being in here. Til some twat cancelled me,
forged me, and put my mail addy up...
--
Susie *Score - don't score. The choice is yours.
http://www.millersfield.demon.co.uk/sinners.htm
Who's a naughty boy, then? Which players are gonna strip Susie?
Eugene Holman
<big_bug...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1407...@f24-134-6.pc.helsinki.fi...
>
> <snipped>
>
> Excellent post, that. I never knew about the stuff going on in the Baltic
> States, and they seem to have been even more efficient and ruthless than in
> Poland.
>
> I'm curious to know why Jews there were simply arrested and marched directly
> to their deaths. Were there no factories, or was it thought uneconomical to
> set them up in such a distant area?
>
Lots of factories - Riga was one nof the first cities in Russia to become
industrialized in the modern sense at the beginning of the 20th century -
and the Baltics are along the land route from Central Europe to eastern
Scandinavia and St. Petersburg (Leningrad).
The answer to your question is that the Holocaust evolved as a process:
Stage I. Feb. 1, 1933 - August 31, 1939
The preparatory phase.
- The area was limited to Germany until 1938 when Austria was annexed and
Czechoslovakia dismembered.
- A mindset was established that the Jews were to blame for most of
Germany's problem,
- An ideology was created that Germans were a superior race whose mission it
was to subjugate and selectively exterminate the inferior races living
to the east and colonize their territories as *Lebensraum*.
- A legal framework, the Nuremberg laws, for harassing, disenfranchising,
and dispossessing Jews was established.
- Various methodologies for committing genocide and mass murder were tested
and developed (sterilization and Tiergartenstraße 4 euthanasia program).
- The machinery was test-run on November 9, 1938 (Kristallnacht).
Stage II. Sept. 1, 1939 - June 22, 1941
The passive stage
- Poland is attacked, beginning a colonial war
- The euthanasia program is put into operation. The case is made that
a superior race has the right to selectively kill its useless and weaker
members.
- Rural Jews and Poles are mercilessly killed by the Einsatzkommandos.
- The Polish clergy and middle classes are decimated, their property
is expropriated and given to German settlers (like Otto Schindler).
- Urban Jews are identified, evicted from their homes, dispossessed,
and forced into ghettos built near railway lines. They are farmed out
to the Gemran settlers who have taken over the Polish economy as
slave labor.
- Harsh measures are taken against the ghettoized Jews, including killing
some of those unable to work and summary execution as a means of
demonstrating power.
Stage III. June 22, 1941 - Jan. 20, 1942
The active stage: part I
- the USSR is invaded
- rural Jews are mercilessly killed by the Einsatzkommandos
- efforts are made by the Germans to incite local populations to violence
against Jews, since they are blamed as the source of communism.
- street violence instigated by the Germans results in deadly street
violence againt Jews in Ukraine and Lithuania during the summer of 1941.
- it become evident by September, that the war against the USSR is not going
to be won in ten weeks, as Hitler had planned and other means must be taken
tpo deal with the Jews.
- In September, 1941, a veriant of the Nuremberg Laws was passed in the areas
of the USSR, including the Baltics, that were under German control. They made
being a Jew a capital crime. In Estonia, which had few Jews, Jews were
arrested on the streets or in their homes and shot. The Jews in Pärnu were
locked in the synagogue and the building was burned to the ground. In Latvia
and Lithuania, which had many more Jews, a more systematic approach was
needed. Jews in the smaller towns were dealt with as they had been in Estonia.
Jews in larger towns were ghettoized and farmed out as slave labor, as they
had been in Poland.
- Towards the end of the year, Jewish ghettos in Poland as well as Latvia
and Lithuania began to be liquidated. This usually meant marching the
Jews to some previously prepared killing site outside of town and shooting
them. This happened with local variants in Riga, Minsk, Bialystok, Kiev,
Serniki, Cracow, Kiev, Odessa, Karkhov, and many other cities.
- Friedrich Jeckeln, who arranged and oversaw many of these operations
realized that there were practical limitations on mass shooting:
a) shooting more than 20,000 to 25,000 people was a logistical nightmare
b) soldiers with a steady diet of shooting women, children, babies, and
elderly people became brutalized or went insane.
c) such mass shootings were necessarily public and they were PR disasters
for the German occupation authorities.
- Plans for the expansion of Auschwitz and the construction of killing
centers in Poland began. One motivation was feedback from people like
Jeckeln, another was the existence of expertise gained in the use of
poison gas and other stealthy means as a methodology of mass killing.
Stafe IV. Jan. 20, 1942 - May, 1945
The active sstage: part II
- The Wannsee Conference is convened in Berlin, Jan 20, 1942.
- Germany has a chance of conquering all of Europe and "solving" the
Jewish problem once and for all.
- It is noted that despite the number of Jews alrady killed, there are
still more than 11,000,000 Jews in Europe.
- Plans are discussed concerning transporting them to the east to use
as slave labor. Men and women are to be segregated, so that they will
not be able to reproduce, the labor consiitons are to be so harsh that
only the strongest and healthiest will survive. "Appropriate measures"
will be taken to ensure that this healthy nucleus will not produce a
new generation to avange what was done to their parents.
- Between January and April, dedicated extermination centers, some of them
staffed by former personnel of the euthanasia program, are opened
in Poland, and Jewish ghettos are liquidated by sending the inhabitants
to them.
- It becomes obvious that the war against the USSR is not going to be an
easy victory, and a difference of opinion arises with respect to the
treatment of Jews and others to be exterminated.
- The exterminationist faction, associated with Adolf Eichmann, wants to
kill every Jew they can get their hands on.
- The selective exterminationist faction, associated with Heinrich Himmler,
wants to use Jews capable of work as slave workers for man-power short
German industry, and kill those who are more valuable alive than dead.
There would be plenty of time to kill the others after Germany had
won the war.
- Himmler's faction has prevailed by mid 1942. Places like Auschwitz
become massive industrial complexes employing hundreds of thousands
of slave laborers, with those who are no longer capable of work as
well as new arrivals unsuitable for work being exterminated.
- The dedicated killing centers such as Belzec, Treblinka, Chelmno, and
Sobinor are either phased out or become dysfuntional due to revolts
and sabotage.
There's more, but that's enough to answer your question. The Baltic
countries were to be cleared for eventual German colonization. Initially,
when the Germans thought that the USSR would be as easy a pushover as
Poland had been, they were extraordianrily brutal, since the Jews were
just people to be killed, and the Balts didn't need to be shielded from
the brutality because they would eventually be dealt with in the same way.
When it became clear that killing Jews was not going to be as easy as the
Germans thought it would be, and that the war against the USSR was not
going to be a Blitzkrieg, other more efficient and less public methods had
to be devised both for killing Jews and for deriving any economic benefit
from them possible while doing so.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
> Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1407...@f24-134-6.pc.helsinki.fi...
>
> <snipped>
>
> Excellent post, that.
Thanks.
> I never knew about the stuff going on in the Baltic
> States, and they seem to have been even more efficient and ruthless than in
> Poland.
>
> I'm curious to know why Jews there were simply arrested and marched directly
> to their deaths. Were there no factories, or was it thought uneconomical to
> set them up in such a distant area?
>
Lots of factories - Riga was one nof the first cities in Russia to become
industrialized in the modern sense at the beginning of the 20th century -
and the Baltics are along the land route from Central Europe to Eastern
Scandinavia and St. Petersburg (Leningrad). The Baltics were moderately
industrialized, had modern infrastructures, and were by no means distant.
The answer to your question is to be found in the fact that the Holocaust
evolved as a process serving more than one purpose, even if its primary
objective was killing Jews and other (from the Nazi standpoint)
undesirables:
Stage I. Feb. 1, 1933 - August 31, 1939
The preparatory phase.
- The area was limited to Germany until 1938 when Austria was annexed and
Czechoslovakia dismembered.
- A mindset was established that the Jews were to blame for most of
Germany's and the world's problems,
- An ideology was created that Germans were a superior race whose mission it
was to subjugate and selectively exterminate the inferior races living
to the east and colonize their territories as *Lebensraum*.
- This was accompanied by a military doctrine that the Jews and other
inferior races were committing genocide against the Germans by outbreeding
them and sucking the life blood out of Germany by living in the
country as parasites. Jews, Hitler taught, don't do honest work, and they
corrupt the nation by spreading ideas such as equality, mercy, and
compassion in the media and arts which they supposedly control and
use as an outlet for their propaganda. Jews and inferior races were thus
waging a war against Germany and they had to be stopped. Germany,
in turn, was cramped and, having no colonies, it had a right to follow
the example set by Britain, France, and other colonial powers by capturing
land from racial inferiors: the Jews, Slavic, and Baltic peoples to
the east of them, many of whom were living on territory once colonized
by Germany during the Middle Ages.
- A legal framework, the Nuremberg laws, for harassing, disenfranchising,
and dispossessing Jews was established.
- Various methodologies for committing genocide and mass murder were tested
and developed (sterilization and the Tiergartenstraße 4 euthanasia program).
- The machinery was test-run on November 9, 1938 (Kristallnacht).
Stage II. Sept. 1, 1939 - June 22, 1941
The passive stage
- Poland is attacked, beginning a colonial war
- The euthanasia program is put into operation. The case is made that
a superior race has the right to selectively kill its useless and weaker
members.
- Rural Jews and Poles are mercilessly killed by the Einsatzkommandos.
- The Polish clergy and middle classes are decimated, their property
is expropriated and given to German settlers (like Otto Schindler).
- Urban Jews are identified, evicted from their homes, dispossessed,
and forced into ghettos built near railway lines. They are farmed out
to the Gemran settlers who have taken over the Polish economy as
slave labor.
- Harsh measures are taken against the ghettoized Jews, including killing
some of those unable to work and summary execution as a means of
demonstrating power.
Stage III. June 22, 1941 - Jan. 20, 1942
The active stage: part I
- the USSR is invaded
- rural Jews are mercilessly killed by the Einsatzkommandos
- efforts are made by the Germans to incite local populations to violence
against Jews, since they are blamed as the source of communism, with which
the Ukrainians and Balts had just had terrible experiences.
- street violence instigated by the Germans results in deadly pogroms
against Jews in Ukraine and Lithuania during the summer of 1941.
- it become evident by September, that the war against the USSR is not going
to be won in ten weeks, as Hitler had planned and other means must be taken
to deal with the Jews.
- In September, 1941, a variant of the Nuremberg Laws was passed in the areas
of the USSR, including the Baltics, that were under German control. They made
being a Jew a capital crime. In Estonia, which had few Jews, Jews were
arrested on the streets or in their homes and shot. The Jews in Pärnu were
locked in the synagogue and the building was burned to the ground. In Latvia
and Lithuania, which had many more Jews, a more systematic approach was
needed. Jews in the smaller towns were dealt with as they had been in Estonia.
Jews in larger towns were ghettoized and farmed out as slave labor, as they
had been in Poland.
- Towards the end of the year, Jewish ghettos in Poland as well as in Latvia
and Lithuania began to be liquidated. This usually meant marching the
Jews to some previously prepared killing site outside of town and shooting
them. This happened with local variants in Riga, Minsk, Bialystok, Kiev,
Serniki, Cracow, Kiev, Odessa, Karkhov, and many other cities.
- Friedrich Jeckeln, who arranged and oversaw many of these operations
in Ukraine and the Baltics, realized that there were practical limitations
on mass shooting:
a) shooting more than 20,000 to 25,000 people was a logistical nightmare
b) soldiers with a steady diet of shooting women, children, babies, and
elderly people became brutalized or went insane.
c) such mass shootings were necessarily public and they were PR disasters
for the German occupation authorities.
- Plans for the expansion of Auschwitz and the construction of killing
centers in Poland began. One motivation was feedback from people like
Jeckeln, another was mastery of the use of poison gas and other stealthy
means as a methodology of mass killing.
Stafe IV. Jan. 20, 1942 - May, 1945
The active sstage: part II
- The Wannsee Conference is convened in Berlin, Jan 20, 1942.
- Germany has a chance of conquering all of Europe and "solving" the
Jewish problem once and for all.
- It is noted that despite the number of Jews already killed, there are
still more than 11,000,000 Jews in Europe.
- Plans are discussed concerning transporting them to the east to use
as slave labor. Men and women are to be segregated, so that they will
not be able to reproduce, the labor conditions are to be so harsh that
only the strongest and healthiest will survive. "Appropriate measures"
will be taken to ensure that this healthy nucleus will not produce a
new generation to avenge what was done to their parents.
- Between January and April, dedicated extermination centers, some of them
staffed by former personnel of the euthanasia program, are opened
in Poland, and Jewish ghettos are systematically liquidated by sending
the inhabitants to them on trains provided by the Deutsche Reichsbahn and
chartered by RSHA IVB, the division of the SS responsible for dealing
with the Jewish question.
- It becomes obvious that the war against the USSR is not going to be an
easy victory, and a difference of opinion arises with respect to the
treatment of Jews and others to be exterminated.
- The exterminationist faction, associated with Adolf Eichmann and
RSHA IV B, wants to kill every Jew they can get their hands on.
- The selective exterminationist faction, associated with Heinrich Himmler,
the person assigned the task of dealing with the Jewish problem
by Hitler, wants to use Jews capable of work as slave workers for
man-power short German industry, and, for the time being, only kill those
Jews such as elderly people, women with small children, and babies,
who are more valuable to the German war effort dead than alive.
There would be plenty of time to kill the rest of them after they had
worked to help Germany win the war.
- Himmler's faction has prevailed by mid 1942. Places like Auschwitz
become massive industrial complexes employing hundreds of thousands
of slave laborers, with those who are no longer capable of work as
well as new arrivals unsuitable for work being exterminated.
- The dedicated killing centers such as Belzec, Treblinka, Chelmno, and
Sobinor are either phased out or become dysfuntional due to revolts
and sabotage.
There's more, but that's enough to answer your question. The Baltic
countries were to be cleared for eventual German colonization. Initially,
when the Germans thought that the USSR would be as easy a pushover as
Poland had been, their exterminatory policies were extraordianrily brutal,
since the Jews were just people to be killed, while the Balts didn't need
to be shielded from the brutality because they would eventually be dealt
with in the same way. When it became clear that killing Jews was not going
to be as easy as the Germans thought it would be, and that the war against
the USSR was not
going to be a Blitzkrieg, other more efficient and less public methods had
to be devised both for killing Jews and for deriving any economic benefit
from them possible while doing so. Simply put, considerations of quantity,
quality, economic gain, and public relations caused the Germans to abandon
the brutal policy of public mass shootings that marked the first six
months of the war against the USSR and replace it with one of sanitized,
selective, profit-generating extermination.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Leonidas_Rex
Negro "Eugene Holman" sure is cranking out "propaganda of the Jew
kind"...apparently to the exclusion of all other "hobbies".
Tell me "black man Eugene", is the butter on your bread of the "Kosher
kind"?
How amusing to be reminded by the efforts of "black man Eugene" that the
Negro is nothing but a club used by the Jew to beat the White Man over the
head.
Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1407...@f24-134-6.pc.helsinki.fi...
Eugene Holman
<leonid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Leonidas_Rex typed,
>
> Negro "Eugene Holman" sure is cranking out "propaganda of the Jew
> kind"...apparently to the exclusion of all other "hobbies".
>
> Tell me "black man Eugene", is the butter on your bread of the "Kosher
> kind"?
>
> How amusing to be reminded by the efforts of "black man Eugene" that the
> Negro is nothing but a club used by the Jew to beat the White Man over the
> head.
>
Your use of the word propaganda implies somehow that what I wrote is
either untrue or strongly biased. Please provide examples of untruth or
bias, or shit the hell up.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Leonidas_Rex
This nigger has rewritten the history of Europe! More lies and distortions
could not be put into his post unless more lines were added. What a nigger!
Read below for a funny example of how the atrophied frontal lobes of the
negro brain cause a grown man to emulate the warped historical perspective
(and writing style) of an eight year old Caucasian. Oy vey, what a Svartze
[SIC]!
Eugene Holman
> Leonidas_Rex typed,
>
> Negro "Eugene Holman" sure is cranking out "propaganda of the Jew
> kind"...apparently to the exclusion of all other "hobbies".
>
> Tell me "black man Eugene", is the butter on your bread of the "Kosher
> kind"?
>
> How amusing to be reminded by the efforts of "black man Eugene" that the
> Negro is nothing but a club used by the Jew to beat the White Man over the
> head.
>
Your use of the word propaganda implies somehow that what I wrote is
either untrue or strongly biased. Your references to my ethnic background
have nothing to do with the information I am making available and are in
extremely bad taste. Please provide examples of untruth or bias in what I
have posted, or shut up.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
<leonid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Leonidas_Rex typed,
>
> This nigger has rewritten the history of Europe! More lies and distortions
> could not be put into his post unless more lines were added.
I can document every statement made in that posting. Point out one 'lie'
or 'distortion' and I demonstrate that it is neither. And my ethnicity
has no bearing whatsoever on the subject matter which is the life and
career of General Friedrich Jeckeln.
> What a nigger!
> Read below for a funny example of how the atrophied frontal lobes of the
> negro brain cause a grown man to emulate the warped historical perspective
> (and writing style) of an eight year old Caucasian.
The posting was written in stream-of-consciousness style and makes use of
the historical present to add vividness. If your stylistics is so limited
that you fail to understand that, that's your problem.
> Oy vey, what a Svartze
Un vos host du gegen di shvartzen?
No regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
> Leonidas_Rex typed,
>
> This nigger has rewritten the history of Europe! More lies and distortions
> could not be put into his post unless more lines were added.
I can document every statement made in that posting. Point out one 'lie'
or 'distortion' and I demonstrate that it is neither. And my ethnicity
has no bearing whatsoever on the subject matter which is the life and
career of General Friedrich Jeckeln.
> What a nigger!
> Read below for a funny example of how the atrophied frontal lobes of the
> negro brain cause a grown man to emulate the warped historical perspective
> (and writing style) of an eight year old Caucasian.
The posting was written in stream-of-consciousness outline style and makes
use of the historical present to add vividness. If your stylistic
repertoire is so limited that you fail to appreciate that, then your
reaction reveals more about you than about me.
susie
giganews.com>, Leonidas_Rex <leonid...@yahoo.com> writes
>This nigger has rewritten the history of Europe! More lies and distortions
>could not be put into his post unless more lines were added. What a nigger!
>Read below for a funny example of how the atrophied frontal lobes of the
>negro brain cause a grown man to emulate the warped historical perspective
>(and writing style) of an eight year old Caucasian. Oy vey, what a Svartze
Hahahahahahah.
Hey, Lonnie... just remember... while the superior is running riot on
your keyboard... he is still chained to the inferior, whose prison
confines he keeps trying to break free from...
One and the same, Lonnie lad. One and the fucking same. And boy... are
you worth spinning a little...
Look for the TILT, mard arse...
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
susie
.giganews.com>, Leonidas_Rex <leonid...@yahoo.com> writes
>Negro "Eugene Holman" sure is cranking out "propaganda of the Jew
>kind"...apparently to the exclusion of all other "hobbies".
>
>Tell me "black man Eugene", is the butter on your bread of the "Kosher
>kind"?
>
>How amusing to be reminded by the efforts of "black man Eugene" that the
>Negro is nothing but a club used by the Jew to beat the White Man over the
>head.
DEDDLE DED DED DED DED DED DED DED DEEEERRRRRRD.
DEDDLE DED DED DED DED DED DED DED DEEEERRRRRRD.
DED DED DED DED DED DED DED DERRRRRRRRRRD
DEDDLE DED DED DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD.
Let's test that brain, cloth head...
Hint: Banjo
Humm it, soft lad. Hear it when you stop typing.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
THOR88
GERMAN AND PROUD TO CLEAR RTHE STREETS OF THE JEW VERMIN
SIKHOL! FEAR ME I AM THOR
====================================================
14/88 WHITE POWER!!
====================================================
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dr Curious George PhD
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And maybe there's no peace in this world, for us or
for anyone else, I don't know. But I do know that, as
long as we live, we must remain true to ourselves."
--Spartacus
Dr Curious George PhD
proven to exist), and we have every "negro" who lives in "Finland" under total
ZOG control. *Both* of them.
Eugene Holman
> YOUR A LIAR HE WAS SINGING THE HORSE WESESL
That's HORST WESSEL (http://www.geocities.co.jp/MusicHall/2118/2.htm).
> SONG BECAUSE HE WAS A PROUD
> GERMAN AND PROUD TO CLEAR RTHE STREETS OF THE JEW VERMIN
>
The German Herr Jeckeln was clearing Latvian streets of Jews who were
Latvian citizens on his own initiative. Pretty poor behavior on the part
of a tourist, I'd say.
>
> SIKHOL! FEAR ME I AM THOR
BURRRRRP! Excuse me.
>
> ====================================================
> 14/88 WHITE POWER!!
> ====================================================
>
Heil Schicklgruber!
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
> The Einsatzgruppen managed to make Estonia a "Judenrein" country.
>
>
No they didn't. At least not if you are going to define terms with
deutsche Gründlichkeit.
Estonia had a small Jewish population(about 4300 in 1939) that was
protected by some of the most liberal and tolerant legislation in Europe
guaranteeing cultural autonomy dating back to 1925. The country's 3000+
Jewish population had its own cultural organizations, maintained a few
synagogues, and was never
regarded as constituting anything of problem.
The country was violently incorporated into the USSR during the summer of
1940. Jewish cultural autonomy was ended, synagogues were closed, and
prominent members of the Jewish religious community were shot, deported, or
arrested. Many Jewish-owned businesses were nationalized in conjunction
with the imposition of a communist economy. Some of the Soviet officials
that supervised the imposition of a communist system were Jewish by
'ethnicity' but not by religion or culture. Most Estonian Jews were
professionals or businessmen, middle class people whose livelihood and
social class were directly threatened by the imposition of a communist
system. Some looked to Germany as the country's only salvation from the
communists. A smaller segment of Estonian Jews had supported or sympathized
with the communists to some degree, as, indeed, had some Estonians.
The German army attacked the USSR on June 22, 1941, and they soon entered
Estonia. Tallinn, the capital, was not captured until Sept. 3, 1941, for
wich reason about 3,000 Estonian Jews succeeded in escaping to the Soviet
Union. The Soviet government was liquidated, and a German occupation
government replaced it. Estonia thus became not a German ally, but,
together with its two Baltic neighbors Latvia and Lithuania, a
protectorate called 'Ostland' ruled directly by the German authorities and
their local henchmen: German money, stamps, and state symbols were
introduced.
GRMAN POLICY TOWARDS JEWS IN ESTONIA
Jews began to be arrested and executed immediately after the German army
entered Estonia. The Estonian state archives contain death certificatess
and lists of Jews shot dated July, August, and early September 1941. For
example the official death certificate of Ruvin Teitelbaum, born in Tapa pn
January 17, 1907, states laconically in a form with item 7 already printed
with only the date left blank: "7. By a decision of the German Security
Police on September 4, 1941, condemned to death, with the decision being
carried out the same day in Tallinn." Teitelbaum's crime was "being a Jew"
and thus constituting a "threat to the public order".
For the approximately 1,000 Jews that remained in Tallinn, regulations
were quickly passed to criminalize their Jewishness. On September 11, 1941
an article entitled *Juuditäht seljal" - "A Jewish Star on the Back"
appeared in the Estonian mass-circulation newspaper "Postimees". It stated
that Dr. Drechsler, the High Commissioner of Ostland, had proclaimed
ordinances in accordance with which all Jewish residents of Ostland from
that day onward had to wear visible yellow six-pointed Stars of David at
least 10 cm. in diameter on the left side of their chest and back. On the
same day Regulations [ERA.F.R-89.N.1.S.1.L.2]
issued by the German Security Police were delivered to all local police
departments proclaiming that the Nuremberg Laws were in force in Ostland,
defining who was a Jew, and what Jews could and could not do. Jews were
prohibited from changing their place of residence, walking along the
sidewalk, using any means of transporation, going to theaters, museums,
cinema, or school. The professions of lawyer, physician, notary, banker, or
real estate agent were declared closed to Jews, as was the occupation of
street hawker. The regulations also declared that the property and homes
of Jewish residents were to be confiscated. The regulations emphasized
that work to this ends was to be begun as soon as possible, and that lists
of Jews, their addresses, and their property were to be completed by the
police by September 20, 1941. These regulations also provided for the
establishment of a concentration camp near the south-eastern Estonian city
of Tartu. A later decisios provided for the construction of a Jewish
ghetto near the town of Harku, but this was never built, a small
concentration camp being built there
instead.
The Estonian State Archives contain material pertinent to the cases of
about 450 Estonian Jews. They were typically arrested either at home or in
the street, taken to the local police station, and charged with the 'crime'
of being Jews. They were either shot outright or sent to concentration camp
and shot later.
An Estonian woman, E.S. describes the arrest of her Jewish husband as follows:
[Quoted in Eugenia Gurin-Loov, *Holocaust of Estonian Jews 1941*, Eesti
Juudi Kogukond, Tallinn 1994: pg. 224.
[BEGIN QUOTE}
As my husband did not go out of the house, I was the one to go to town
every day to see what was going on. I was very frighteend when I saw a
poster at the corner of Vabaduse Square and Harju Street calling for people
to show where the apartments of Jews were located. On that fatal day of
September 13, I went out again because the weather was fine but I remember
being very worried. I rushed home and when I got there and heard some
voices in our apartment I had a foreboding that something bad had happened.
There were two men in our apartment from the Self Defence Forces who said
they were taking my husband to the police station. I ran after them and
went to the chief officer and asked for permission to see my husband. The
chief officer said that he could not give me permission but added, in a low
voice, that I should come the next morning when the prisoners would be
taken to prison and perhaps I could see my husband in the corridor. I
returned the next morning as I had been advised, and it was the last time I
saw my husband. On September 15 I went to the German Security Police on
Tõnismägi in an attempt to get information about my husband. I was told he
had been shot. I asked the reason since he had not been a communist but a
businessman, The answer was: "Aber er war doch ein Jude." [But he was a
Jew.].
[END QUOTE]
Archive records make it possible to trace the fates of several Estonian
Jews through the stages from arrest to execution.
THE PLINER FAMILY
Mr. Jüri Pliner (born May 23, 1898) was arrested and executed by the
Germans on September, 16, 1941. His three children, Mirjam (born August 15,
1927) and David and Sima (twins born on Nov. 11, 1934), remained in Tallinn
with Elisabet Lizenko (Letinkov), their stepmother, in Nõmme, a fashiobale
suburb to the south of Tallinn, living at 39 Nurme Street, apartment 7. The
Estonian State Archives contains correspondence between the German
authorities covering the months between the death of their father and
disappearance of their mother, and the excution of the children in late
March, 1942. I reproduce some of the documents here, the ones in Estonian
translated, and the ones in German in the original language (Note that
Litzenko is the Ukrainian, and Letinkov the Russian, form of the same
name).
************************************************
1. A report to the head of the Political Police of Tallinn-Harju Prefecture
that three Jewish children are living in Nõmme at 39 Nurme St., apartment
7.
[ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.1]
Tallinn-Harju Perfecture To the Director of the Political
Police Division, agent J. Pinka
Report
Pliner, Jüri, married to Sofie Pliner, both Jews by nationality. Their
three children - David, born 1934, Mirjam 1927, Siima, 1934. Parents'
whereabouts unknown, children now living at Nurme St. 39-7, Nõmme.
Information: Elisabet Litzenko, Nurme 39-7, Nõmme.
Nõmme, 20 Dec. 1941
R. Pinka
************************************************
2. Correspondence in the investigating file of the three Pliner children
between the Political Police of Tallinn-Harju Prefecture and the inspector
of police at Nômme.
[ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.4p.]
a. A request to clarify the ethnicity and religion of the children:
[STAMP: Delivered Tallinn 9th division Police Inspectorate chancellery, 2
january, 1942 Nr. 2063]
To the Police Inspectorate of Nõmme
I request that you clarify the ethnicity and religion of the suspects
Taavet, Siima and Miljam Pliner, as well as the ethnicity and religion of
their parents.
Tallinn 30 December, 1941, Nr. 5880
[Signed. EsM]
Tallinn-Harju Prefecture
Director of the Poilitical Police
-----------------------------------------------
b. The answer to the above:
Senior assistant E. Ott
Accoding to information taken from our files the children of Jüri Pliner,
Taavet, Siimam and Mirjam (not Miljan) are Jews by ethnicity and Jews by
religion. Their parents are also Jews and of Jewish religion.
15 I, 1942
[signed: A. Hane]
Nõmme police division
3rd district office
-----------------------------------------------
c. The response to the above:
Tallinn-Harju Political Police
Implemented
In Nömme, 17 Jan. 1942, case nr. 2063
[signed: illegible]
Nõmme Div. Police inspectorate
[signed: J. Laanest]
Secretary
URGENT III M
To the Nômme Police Inspectorate
I request that you verify the ethnicity and religion of the
already-mentioned suspects Taavet, Siima, and Miljam Pliner, as well as
those of their parents with documentary evidence so that it can be proven.
Tallinn, 21 January, 1942, Nr. 5880
[Signed. EsM]
Tallinn-Harju Prefecture
Director of the Poilitical Police
Senior assistant E. Ott
************************************************
3. A lengthy report dated March 8, 1942 in Estonian by agent L. Ranne on
the Pliner family proving their Jewish origin
[ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.13,13p,14,14p,15].
The report goes through the date and circumstances of birth of Jüri Pliner
and concludes that: "Jüri PLINER as well as his spouse SOPHIE are of Jewish
ethnicity according to various documents at the Ministry of Internal
Affairs." It also notes that the children are from his first marriage,
which dates from July 31, 1923. That marriage ended on January 31, 1941,
and on August 20, 1941 he remarried, this time to Elisabeth Letnikov, born
in Poland and ethnically a Russian. The children are determined to be Jews,
but Elisabeth Letnikov is not.
************************************************
4. A request from E. Viks, chief of the political police at Tallinn-Harju
Perfecture to SS-Hauptscharführer Dörsam concerning actions to be taken
with respect to the Pliner children.
[ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.18]
Die Politische Polizei
der Präfektur Tallinn-Harju
29 Dezember 1941.
Nr. 5880 An den
SS-Hauptscharführer Dörsam,
Reval
Mit u/Heutigen teilen wir Ihnen mit, dass 3 Kinder des Juden P i l n e
r, Jüri (exekutiert) und seiner Ehefrau Sofie (Befinden unbekannt):
David geb. 1934
Siima " 1934
Mirjam " 1927
gegenwärtig sich bei Elisabeth Litzenko, Nõmme, Nurme 39-7, befinden.
Wir bitten Sie um Ihre Stellungnahme in dieser Abgelegenheit.
[signed: E. Viks]
Chef der politischen Polizei
der Präfektus Tallinn-Harju
********************************************
5. SS-Sturmbahnführer Seyler's decision of March 21, 1942 concerning the
fate of the Pliner children.
[ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.16]
Reval, den 21.3.1942
Der SS- und Polizeiführer
Der Kommandeur der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD.
Tgb. IV - Pä/A. Nr. 9/42.
An die
Politische Abteilung
z Hd. von Herrn W i c k s .
R e v a l
Betrifft: Kinder des Juden P l i n e r .
Vorgang; Dort. Schr. v. 10.3.42/Nr. 5880.
Anlagen: Ohne.
Die Kinder des Obengenannten mit Namen David, Siima und Mirjam sind zu
exekutieren.
Frau E. Letinkov ist unter Polizei-Aufsicht zu stellen.
I. V.
S e y l e r
********************************************
6. A letter in Estonian to assistant Leopold Jügensson of the Directorate
of the Tallinn-Harju Perecture dated 27.03.1942 announcing that the
property of the children has been registered and confiscated by the German
occupation government, and that the children have been brought to the
Political Police of Tallinn-Harju Prefecture.
[ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.17.17p].
*********************************************
7. An extract from the dossier on the Pliner children reporting that they
have been executed. [ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.18].
Politische Abteiling Reval, den 28.3.1942
der Pol. Präfejtur Reval-Harrien.
Nr......
An den
Kommandeur der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD
beim SS- und Polizeiführer,
R e v a l .
Betrifft: Kinder des Juden P l i n e r
Vorgang: I/Schr.v. 21.3.1942, Tgb.Nr. 9.
Anlagen: 1
In Erledigung Ihres obigen Schreibens berichte ich:
P.1 - Ist befolgt
P.2 - Frau E. L e t i n k o v, ist unter polit.
Polizei-Aufsicht gestellt.
Leiter der Politschen Abteiling
der Polizei Präfektur Reval-Harrien
******************************************
8. An extract in Estonian containing an inventory of the the personal
property confiscated from the three Pilner children in conjunction with
their arrest and delivery to the Political Police on March 27, 1942. The
list notes that the children's property was in two cardboard suitcases, one
beige and one brown, and that, including the suitcases, it consists of 43
items, including [8] 12 pairs of childrens socks, [17] nine skirts of
various colors, [23] 5 pairs of white gloves, and [35] a dark blue winter
coat with a gray fur collar. It is signed by constable Artur Braun and
dated May 5, 1942. [ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.22,22p.]
******************************************
9. The Pilner children disappear from history with this final document from
the Estonian Security Police to the inspector of police in Nõmme.
[ERA.F.R-64.N.4.S.615.L.25]
Estonian Security Police
IV Division
14 May, 1942
To the Police Inspector at Nõmme
Concerns: Mirjam, Siima and David P l i n e r's moveable property.
Reference: German Security Police, correspondence April 20, 1942 Tgb. IV Bu/A
Nr. 9/42 2592
Appendices: 1 page
I request the property of Mirjam, Siima, and David P l i n e r which is
located in Tallin-Nõmme, Nurm St. 39-7 in Elisabeth Letinkov's apartment
and which was inventoried by constable Artur Braun on March 28, 1942, in
accordance with the list in the dossier of the German Security Police April
20, 1942, Tgb. IV - Bu/nr. 9/42, 2592, of which a copy is included.
[signed: EsM]
Director of the Division
Fa. M
Senior assistant
**********************************
Another thing that we learn from these documents is that the
characterization of Estonia as 'judenfrei' at the Wannsee Conference
(January 20, 1942) was overoptimistic. The Pliner children's fate shows
that there was still some mopping up to do in March, 1942. A few Estonian
Jews survived thr war by hiding in attics or cellars and being cared for
by friends or non-Jewish relatives.
--
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
> Ah, yes, we Jews have our nails dug deep into "Finland" (yet to be
conclusively
> proven to exist), and we have every "negro" who lives in "Finland" under total
> ZOG control. *Both* of them.
>
Yeah, sure.
1.
Source: http://www.verkkouutiset.fi/arkisto/Arkisto_1997/12.syyskuu/SOMALIT.HTM
Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä. Se voidaan
kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin ja
saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan
tiistaina Somalifoorumin Helsingissä.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[DELETIONS]
Suomessa asuu tällä hetkellä tilastojen mukaan 5020 somalia ja osa vielä
odottaa turvapaikkapäätöstä. Uusien tulijoiden määrä on selvästi
vähentynyt, mutta somalien määrä kasvaa vielä ainakin perheenyhdistämisten
kautta, ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu selvitti.
*************************************************************************
TRANSLATION
According to statistics the Somalis are the largest refugee group in
Finland. From the standpoint of its size, a parallel can be drawn between
this group and the established ethnic minorities, the Gypsies and the
Saamis (= Lapps), said Antti Seppälä, Counselor for Foreigners, at the
Somali Forum in Helsinki on Tuesday.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
At this moment statistics show that 5,020 Somalis are living in Finland at
this moment, and some are stil awaitinf a decision on their refugee
status. The number of new arrivals has clearly dropped, but their number
continues to grow at last through family reunifications, the Counselor for
Foreigners explained.
*************************************************************************
2.
Lola Odusoga, a Finn of partial Nigerian heritage, became the first Miss
Finland of color in 1996. She went on to win Miss Scandinavaia 1996 and
place third (second runner-up) in the Miss Universe Pageant.
http://www.yle.fi/linna98/photos/photo2_i.jpg
http://www.city.fi/arkisto/23_96/lola.html
*************************************************************************
So, you're off by more than 5.021, chump.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
Yeah, sure.
1.
Source: http://www.verkkouutiset.fi/arkisto/Arkisto_1997/12.syyskuu/SOMALIT.HTM
[DELETIONS]
*************************************************************************
TRANSLATION
At this moment statistics show that 5,020 Somalis are currently living in
Finland, and some are still awaiting a decision on their refugee
status. The number of new arrivals has clearly dropped, but their number
continues to grow at last through family reunifications, the Counselor for
Foreigners explained.
*************************************************************************
2.
Lola Odusoga, a Finn of partial Nigerian heritage, became the first Miss
Finland of color in 1996. She went on to win Miss Scandinavia 1996 and
place third (second runner-up) in the Miss Universe Pageant.
http://www.yle.fi/linna98/photos/photo2_i.jpg
http://www.city.fi/arkisto/23_96/lola.html
*************************************************************************
So, you're off by more than 5,021, chump.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
> The Einsatzgruppen managed to make Estonia a "Judenrein" country.
>
>
No they didn't. At least not if you are going to define terms with
deutsche Gründlichkeit.
Estonia had a small Jewish population (about 4,300 in 1939) that was
protected by some of the most liberal and tolerant legislation in Europe
guaranteeing cultural autonomy dating back to 1925. The country's 3,200+
Jews who identifed themselves as such had their own cultural
organizations, maintained a few synagogues, and was never regarded as
constituting anything of problem.
The country was violently incorporated into the USSR during the summer of
1940. Jewish cultural autonomy was ended, synagogues were closed, and
prominent members of the Jewish religious community were shot, deported, or
arrested. Many Jewish-owned businesses were nationalized in conjunction
with the imposition of a communist economy. Some of the Soviet officials
that supervised the imposition of a communist system were Jewish by
'ethnicity' but not by religion or culture. Most Estonian Jews were
professionals or businessmen, middle class people whose livelihood and
social class were directly threatened by the imposition of a communist
system. Some looked to Germany as the country's only salvation from the
communists. A smaller segment of Estonian Jews had supported or sympathized
with the communists to some degree, as, indeed, had some Estonians.
The German army attacked the USSR on June 22, 1941, and they soon entered
Estonia. However Tallinn, the capital is located in the extreme north of
the heavily forested country and was not captured until Sept. 3, 1941, for
which reason about 3,000 Estonian Jews succeeded in escaping to the Soviet
Union. The Soviet government in Tallinn was liquidated, and a German
occupation government replaced it. Estonia thus became not a German ally,
but, together with its two Baltic neighbors Latvia and Lithuania, a
protectorate called 'Ostland' ruled directly by the German authorities and
their local henchmen: German money, stamps, and state symbols were
introduced.
GRMAN POLICY TOWARDS JEWS IN ESTONIA
Jews began to be arrested and executed immediately after the German army
entered Estonia. The Estonian state archives contain death certificatess
and lists of Jews shot dated July, August, and early September 1941. For
example the official death certificate of Ruvin Teitelbaum, born in Tapa pn
January 17, 1907, states laconically in a form with item 7 already printed
with only the date left blank: "7. By a decision of the German Security
Police on September 4, 1941, condemned to death, with the decision being
carried out the same day in Tallinn." Teitelbaum's crime is listed as
"being a Jew" and thus constituting a "threat to the public order".
For the approximately 1,000 Jews that remained in Tallinn, regulations
were quickly passed to criminalize their Jewishness. On September 11, 1941
an article entitled *Juuditäht seljal" - "A Jewish Star on the Back"
appeared in the Estonian mass-circulation newspaper "Postimees". It stated
that Dr. Drechsler, the High Commissioner of Ostland, had proclaimed
ordinances in accordance with which all Jewish residents of Ostland from
that day onward had to wear visible yellow six-pointed Stars of David at
least 10 cm. in diameter on the left side of their chest and back. On the
same day Regulations [ERA.F.R-89.N.1.S.1.L.2] issued by the German
Security Police were delivered to all local police departments proclaiming
that the Nuremberg Laws were in force in Ostland, defining who was a Jew,
and what Jews could and could not do. Jews were prohibited from changing
their place of residence, walking along the sidewalk, using any means of
transporation, going to theaters, museums, cinema, or school. The
professions of lawyer, physician, notary, banker, or real estate agent
were declared closed to Jews, as was the occupation of street hawker. The
regulations also declared that the property and homes of Jewish residents
were to be confiscated. The regulations emphasized
that work to this ends was to be begun as soon as possible, and that lists
of Jews, their addresses, and their property were to be completed by the
police by September 20, 1941. These regulations also provided for the
establishment of a concentration camp near the south-eastern Estonian city
of Tartu. A later decision provided for the construction of a Jewish
Jews through the stages from arrest to execution. I'm going to use the
fate of the family of Jüri Pliner as a case study.
THE PLINER FAMILY
Mr. Jüri Pliner (born May 23, 1898) was arrested and executed by the
Germans on September, 16, 1941. His three children, Mirjam (born August 15,
1927) and David and Sima (twins born on Nov. 11, 1934), remained in Tallinn
with Elisabet Lizenko (Letinkov), their stepmother, in Nõmme, a fashionable
suburb to the south of Tallinn, living at 39 Nurme Street, apartment 7. The
Estonian State Archives contains correspondence between the German
authorities covering the months between the death of their father and
disappearance of their mother, and the execution of the children in late
Eugene Holman
curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
Yeah, sure.
1.
Source: http://www.verkkouutiset.fi/arkisto/Arkisto_1997/12.syyskuu/SOMALIT.HTM
[DELETIONS]
*************************************************************************
TRANSLATION
[DELETIONS]
Statistics show that 5,020 Somalis are currently living in Finland, and
some are still awaiting a decision on their refugee status. The number of
new arrivals has clearly dropped, but their number continues to increase
at least through family reunifications, the Counselor for Foreigners
explained.
*************************************************************************
2.
Lola Odusoga, a Finn of partial Nigerian heritage, became the first Miss
Finland of color in 1996. She went on to win Miss Scandinavia 1996 and
place third (second runner-up) in that year's Miss Universe Pageant.
Dr Curious George PhD
for black people.
Eugene Holman
curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
> Leo, it may interest you to know that *schwarze* is also a German pejorative
> for black people.
>
It may interest you to know that Leonidas_Rex was attempting to score a
multilevel point by using Yiddish, in which the word also means black
person, but is not necessarily pejorative.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Dr Curious George PhD
Estonia as having no Jews.
Dr Curious George PhD
Holman?
Please...this is alt.revisionism!
Dr Curious George PhD
"Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä. Se voidaan
kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin ja
saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan tiistaina
Somalifoorumin Helsingissä."
This is a language? It is to laugh. I can't read it, so it isn't a real
language. You just randomly hit keys and then typed your own "translation."
FORENSIC evidence dammit!
Yours in chutzpahtude,
CG
Eugene Holman
curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
> Ah, I was basing my assumption on the Wannsee Protocol which, IIRC, lists
> Estonia as having no Jews.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It does indeed, but it was overoptimistic.
The documents I posted are in a collection from the Estonian police
archives published in Tallinn a fw years ago.
The fact of the matter is that Estonia had so few Jews by the time the
Germans arrived, that getting rid of virtually all of them was child's
play. However, the case of the Pliner children, as well as the documented
cases of the handful of Estonian Jews who were luckier than the Frank
family and were able to hide throughout the war, shows that the Germans
were only 99.4% correct.
For most people, that would qualify as 'judenrein', but for Germans, who
like to be as gründlich as humanly possible, it contitutes a failure. The
Pliner children were not the only Estonian Jews found and killed in
Estonia after the Wannsee Conference.
Regards,
Eugee Holman
Eugene Holman
curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
> Oh, and I suppose you have *forensic* evidence to back up these claims, Mr.
> Holman?
>
> Please...this is alt.revisionism!
>
I'm fully aware of that. Which claims are you questioning?
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
> Furthermore:
>
> "Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä. Se voidaan
> kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin ja
> saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan tiistaina
> Somalifoorumin Helsingissä."
>
> This is a language? It is to laugh. I can't read it, so it isn't a real
> language.
Yes. It's Finnish. That's the language we use around here.
Even though Finnish is unrelated to English or most other European
languages, the text contains some obvious cognates such as somalit = [the]
Somalis and [the] somalifoorumi = Somali forum.
The information at ethnologue
http://www.sil.org/ethnologue/countries/Finl.html is about five years old,
but even then the Somalis were a large group:
***************************************************
Finland
5,030,000 (1995). Republic of Finland, Suomen Tasavalta. Literacy rate
100%. Also includes English 4,500, Rumanian 1,000, Russian 10,000, Somali
1,300, Tatar 1,000, Turkish 1,000, Arabic, Chinese, German, Polish,
Spanish, Vietnamese. Literacy rate 99% (1991 WA). Data accuracy estimate:
A2, B. Christian, secular. Blind population 3,345. Deaf population 8,000
(1986 Gallaudet University). Deaf institutions: 44. The number of
languages listed for Finland is 11. Of those, 10 are living languages and
1 is a second language with no mother tongue speakers.
****************************************************
> You just randomly hit keys and then typed your own "translation."
>
> FORENSIC evidence dammit!
Go to the URL from which the text is excerpted:
http://www.verkkouutiset.fi/arkisto/Arkisto_1997/12.syyskuu/SOMALIT.HTM to
see that I did not just randomly hit keys.
Here is my own parsed version of the sentence:
Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä.
statistics-of light-in Somalis-the are Finland of biggest refugee group
Se voidaan kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin
it they can size-by parallel old-into ethnic-into minorities-into
Gypsies-into
saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan tiistaina
Saamis-into estimated foreigners-counciler Antti Seppälä
opening-in-his Tuesday-on
Somalifoorumin Helsingissä."
Somali forum-the Helsinki-in
If you consult the English-Finnish-English dictionary at at
http://www.mofile.fi/-db.htm you will see that my parsed interlinear
translation is accurate.
For a second opinion, here is the lemmatized text parsed by the computer
parser at http://www.kielikone.fi/english/demot/dcparser.shtml. The
headwords with their inflectional endings removed can then be checked by
looking them up in he English-Finnish-English dictionary at
http://www.mofile.fi/-db.htm:
The Finnish sentence to be parsed:
Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä.
+-(Tilastojen) GenAttr, Noun, TILASTO
|
+-(valossa) Adverbial, Noun, VALO
|
+-(somalit) Subject, Noun, SOMALI
|
| +-(Suomen) GenAttr, Proper, SUOMI
| |
| +-(suurin) AdjAttr, Adjective, SUURI
| |
+-(pakolaisryhmä) Complement, Noun, PAKOLAISRYHMÄ
|
+-(.) Separator, Delimiter, PERIOD
|
(ovat) Head, Verb, OLLA
The Finnish sentence to be parsed:
Se voidaan kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin,
romaneihin ja saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä
avatessaan tiistaina Somalifoorumin Helsingissä.
The parse produced by DCParser:
+-(Se) Object, Pronoun, SE
|
+-(kooltaan) Adverbial, Noun, KOKO
|
| +-(vanhoihin) AdjAttr, Adjective, VANHA
| |
| +-(etnisiin) AdjAttr, Adjective, ETNINEN
| |
| | +-(,) Connector, Delimiter, COMMA
| | |
| | +-(saamelaisiin) ConjPostComp, Noun, SAAMELAINEN
| | |
| | +-(ja) CoordPostDep, Conjunction, JA
| | |
| | +-(romaneihin) ConjPostComp, Noun, ROMANE
| | |
| +-(,) CoordPostDep, Delimiter, COMMA
| |
+-(vähemmistöihin) Adverbial, Noun, VÄHEMMISTÖ
|
+-(rinnastaa) Object, Verb, RINNASTAA
|
| +-(ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu) Subject, Noun, ULKOMAALAISVALTUUTETTU
| |
| | +-(tiistaina) Adverbial, Noun, TIISTAI
| | |
| | +-(Helsingissä) Adverbial, Proper, HELSINKI
| | |
| +-(avatessaan) Adverbial, Verb, AVATA
| |
| +-(Somalifoorumin) Object, Proper, SOMALIFOORUMI
| |
+-(arvioi) Apposition, Verb, ARVIOIDA
|
| +-(Antti) NomPreAttr, Proper, ANTTI
| |
+-(Seppälä) Apposition, Proper, SEPPÄLÄ
|
+-(.) Separator, Delimiter, PERIOD
|
(voidaan) Head, Verb, VOIDA
> Yours in chutzpahtude,
Such a way to end a posting,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
> Furthermore:
>
> "Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä. Se voidaan
> kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin ja
> saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan tiistaina
> Somalifoorumin Helsingissä."
>
> This is a language? It is to laugh. I can't read it, so it isn't a real
> language.
Yes. It's Finnish. That's the language we use around here.
> You just randomly hit keys and then typed your own "translation."
>
> FORENSIC evidence dammit!
1. Go to the URL from which the text is excerpted:
http://www.verkkouutiset.fi/arkisto/Arkisto_1997/12.syyskuu/SOMALIT.HTM
You will see that the text from which the two sentences were excepted does
exist and that I did not just randomly hit keys.
2. Inspect the text to see if there is any systematic relationship between
the Finnish original and its alleged translation into English.
Even though Finnish is unrelated to English or most other European
languages, the text contains some obvious cognates such as:
somalit = [the] Somalis
etnisiin [illative plural of ethninen] = [to] ethnic
romaneihin [illative plural of romani] = [to] Romanies (or Gypsies)
saamelaisiin [illative plural of saamelainen] = [to] Saamis (or Lapps)
somalifoorumi = [the] Somali forum
tiistsaina [essive singular of tiistai] = (on) Tuesday
Helsingissä [inessive of Helsinki] = (in) Helsinki.
This is enough to get a rough idea to show that the Finnish text and the
English translation are not random or fabricated.
3. Obtain information from another source that corroborates the claim
allegedly made in the text.
Ethnologue, a datbase continaining information about linguistic minorities
and where languages are spoken tells us that Finland has a Somali minority
and that Finland is one of the counrtries in which Somali is spoken by a
settled community of speakers:
http://www.sil.org/ethnologue/countries/Finl.html
***************************************************
Finland
5,030,000 (1995). Republic of Finland, Suomen Tasavalta. Literacy rate
100%. Also includes English 4,500, Rumanian 1,000, Russian 10,000, Somali
1,300, Tatar 1,000, Turkish 1,000, Arabic, Chinese, German, Polish,
Spanish, Vietnamese. Literacy rate 99% (1991 WA). Data accuracy estimate:
A2, B. Christian, secular. Blind population 3,345. Deaf population 8,000
(1986 Gallaudet University). Deaf institutions: 44. The number of
languages listed for Finland is 11. Of those, 10 are living languages and
1 is a second language with no mother tongue speakers.
****************************************************
http://www.sil.org/ethnologue/countries/Soma.html
SOMALI (AF-SOOMAALI, AF-MAXAAD TIRI, COMMON SOMALI, STANDARD SOMALI) [SOM]
5,400,000 to 6,700,000 in Somalia (1991); 2,050,000 in Ethiopia (1993);
312,339 in Kenya (1989); 181,420 in Djibouti (1996); 290,000 in Yemen
(1993); 100,000 in United Arab Emirates (1993); 1,300 in Finland;
8,335,000 in all countries. Also in Saudi Arabia, Italy, Sweden, United
Kingdom. Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Somali.
****************************************************
The information there is a few years old, but even then there were more
than 1,000 Somalis in Finland.
4. As final proof that my text and translation are not phoney, make your
own translation. You do not need to learn Finnish to be able to translate
two sentences. You can obtain a parsing of the sentence with a
lemaatization of the words at
Here is my own parsed interlinear version of the sentence the accuracy of
which you can verify with the parser and dictionary:
Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä.
statistics-of light-in Somalis-the are Finland of biggest refugee-group
Se voidaan kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin
it they can size-by parallel old-into ethnic-into minorities-into
Gypsies-into
saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan tiistaina
Saamis-into estimated foreigners-counciler Antti Seppälä
opening-in-his Tuesday-on
Somalifoorumin Helsingissä."
Somali forum-the Helsinki-in
> Yours in chutzpahtude,
Eugene Holman
hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
> In article <HYQb5.346193$VR.52...@news5.giganews.com>, "Leonidas_Rex"
> <leonid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Leonidas_Rex typed,
> >
> > Negro "Eugene Holman" sure is cranking out "propaganda of the Jew
> > kind"...apparently to the exclusion of all other "hobbies".
> >
> > Tell me "black man Eugene", is the butter on your bread of the "Kosher
> > kind"?
> >
> > How amusing to be reminded by the efforts of "black man Eugene" that the
> > Negro is nothing but a club used by the Jew to beat the White Man over the
> > head.
> >
>
> Your use of the word propaganda implies somehow that what I wrote is
> either untrue or strongly biased. Your references to my ethnic background
> have nothing to do with the information I am making available and are in
> extremely bad taste. Please provide examples of untruth or bias in what I
> have posted, or shut up.
>
I note that Leonidas_Rex, given two alternatives, has chosen the latter
and decided not to ontinue in this thread.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
No User
> On 16 Jul 2000 15:18:22 GMT, curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious
> George PhD) wrote:
>
> >Furthermore:
> >
> >
---
This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
It was posted with the use of anonymizing software at
http://anon.xg.nu
---
No User
> On 16 Jul 2000 15:18:22 GMT, curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious
> George PhD) wrote:
>
> >Furthermore:
> >
> >'Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä. Se voidaan
> >kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin ja
> >saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan tiistaina
> >Somalifoorumin Helsingissä.'
> >
> >This is a language? It is to laugh. I can't read it, so it isn't a real
> >language. You just randomly hit keys and then typed your own translation.'
>
> I can fully validate the language as Finnish and the translation as
> correct.
And why should we trust you? Your statement is equivalent to holohoax eye-witness testimony. Worthless. Fucking liar.
PLONK! FLUSH!
Pekka de Groot
George PhD) wrote:
>Furthermore:
>
>"Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä. Se voidaan
>kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin ja
>saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan tiistaina
>Somalifoorumin Helsingissä."
>
>This is a language? It is to laugh. I can't read it, so it isn't a real
>language. You just randomly hit keys and then typed your own "translation."
I can fully validate the language as Finnish and the translation as
correct.
Pekka de Groot
Helsinki, Finland
susie
>> "Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä. Se voidaan
>> kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin ja
>> saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan
>tiistaina
>> Somalifoorumin Helsingissä."
>Yes. It's Finnish. That's the language we use around here.
Err... you'll excuse me faking it should you ever whisper in my ear...
Leonidas_Rex
That's not quite what a Jewish acquaintance told me Eugene. But then again,
I.'m not Black. After all of this pseudo-research you do (by copying pages
out of books written by Jews) on behalf of the Jew propaganda effort to
co-opt the Mass Mind of Whiteness, to them you are nothing but their own
version of a "NIGGER". What a fool!
Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1607...@f24-134-6.pc.helsinki.fi...
> In article <20000715174708...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
> curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
>
Leonidas_Rex
Well for starters, "Eugene Holman" is using the word "ethnic" when the word
"Race" would be more precise, or does preciseness matter to "Eugene Holman".
Furthermore...your endless pages of drivel seem to be ripped from books
written by Jews. A sign of no bias? Get real!
Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1607...@f24-134-6.pc.helsinki.fi...
Leonidas_Rex
Of course...we all know that a language that doesn't look like a language to
"Curious George" must be Finnish!
How could it be otherwise of a people who can serve you a bowl full of
sliced boiled potatoes smeared with mayonnaise and call it a "salad"?
Question...am I talking about the Finns or the Jews?
Pekka de Groot <p...@pp.htv.fi> wrote in message
news:b3c4nsogqmvbq4phk...@4ax.com...
> On 16 Jul 2000 15:18:22 GMT, curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious
> George PhD) wrote:
>
> >Furthermore:
> >
> >"Tilastojen valossa somalit ovat Suomen suurin pakolaisryhmä. Se voidaan
> >kooltaan rinnastaa vanhoihin etnisiin vähemmistöihin, romaneihin ja
> >saamelaisiin, arvioi ulkomaalaisvaltuutettu Antti Seppälä avatessaan
tiistaina
> >Somalifoorumin Helsingissä."
> >
Leonidas_Rex
Wow...this means that "niggers are everywhere". Is there no hope? I hope
that you Somalis are having a good time freezing your arses off in Finland,
where summer is so short that the nation shuts down and goes on vacation for
the one month duration of it!
Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:holman-1607...@f24-134-6.pc.helsinki.fi...
Eugene Holman
<leonid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Leonidas_Rex typed,
>
> That's not quite what a Jewish acquaintance told me Eugene. But then again,
> I.'m not Black. After all of this pseudo-research you do (by copying pages
> out of books written by Jews) on behalf of the Jew propaganda effort to
> co-opt the Mass Mind of Whiteness, to them you are nothing but their own
> version of a "NIGGER". What a fool!
Du solst reykh verdn! So reykh, az du dir a privatn bodeshtrant leystn konst:
Zant in dn niirn un vosr oyf dn kniien!
>
> Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:holman-1607...@f24-134-6.pc.helsinki.fi...
> > In article <20000715174708...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
> > curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
> >
> > in which the word also means black
> > person, but is not necessarily pejorative.
I was born in New York and speak tolerably good New York-type Yiddish.
'Shvarts' is the normal Yiddish word for black person, and it is
essentially neutral, unless intoned in a sarcastic way.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
> Leonidas_Rex typed,
>
> That's not quite what a Jewish acquaintance told me Eugene. But then again,
> I.'m not Black. After all of this pseudo-research you do (by copying pages
> out of books written by Jews) on behalf of the Jew propaganda effort to
> co-opt the Mass Mind of Whiteness, to them you are nothing but their own
> version of a "NIGGER". What a fool!
Du zolst reykh verdn! Zo reykh, az du dir a privatn badeshtrant leystn konst:
Zant in dn niirn un vosr oyfn kniien!
Oloosi Ni Yin!
hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
> In article <WTzc5.353447$VR.53...@news5.giganews.com>,
"Leonidas_Rex"
> <leonid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Leonidas_Rex typed,
> >
> > That's not quite what a Jewish acquaintance told me Eugene. But
then again,
> > I.'m not Black. After all of this pseudo-research you do (by
copying pages
> > out of books written by Jews) on behalf of the Jew propaganda
effort to
> > co-opt the Mass Mind of Whiteness, to them you are nothing but
their own
> > version of a "NIGGER". What a fool!
>
leystn konst:
> Zant in dn niirn un vosr oyf dn kniien!
>
> >
> > Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> > news:holman-1607...@f24-134-6.pc.helsinki.fi...
> > > In article <20000715174708...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
> > > curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious George PhD) wrote:
> > >
> > > in which the word also means black
> > > person, but is not necessarily pejorative.
>
> I was born in New York and speak tolerably good New York-type
Yiddish.
> 'Shvarts' is the normal Yiddish word for black person, and it is
> essentially neutral, unless intoned in a sarcastic way.
The naziboy Rex ass wup once again effortlessly. But you can be sure
the nazi will come for more.
> Regards,
> Eugene Holman
>
--
UV + Florineskin = Cancer
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dr Curious George PhD
Dr Curious George PhD
Dr Curious George PhD
You Finns are all alike...
Dr Curious George PhD
Leonidas_Rex
Yes African University faculty member, whatever you say. This is so much
better than Television!
Oloosi Ni Yin! <fuckpec...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8kuriu$hs9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> The naziboy Rex ass wup once again effortlessly. But you can be sure
> the nazi will come for more.
>
Pekka de Groot
George PhD) wrote:
>Another so-called "Finn" pipes in on this alleged "language."
>
>You Finns are all alike...
Yup, thats us... ;) You've got us figgured right to the bone.
Cheers,
Pekka de G.
No User
The person posting under the name of Pekka de Groot is a liar. I used to live in Grand Rapids and I recognize a Dutch name when I see one. Pekka de Groot isn't a Finn, she's a lying Dutchwoman.
THE CUSTODIAN
Gord McFee
09:24:43 -0500, No User <no....@anon.xg.nu> wrote:
> In article <18e8ns8pj5akhg54c...@4ax.com>, Pekka de Groot <p...@pp.htv.fi> wrote:
>
> > On 17 Jul 2000 22:46:20 GMT, curiousg...@aol.com (Dr Curious
> > George PhD) wrote:
> >
> > >Another so-called 'Finn' pipes in on this alleged 'language.'
> > >
> > >You Finns are all alike...
> >
> > Yup, thats us... ;) You've got us figgured right to the bone.
>
> The person posting under the name of Pekka de Groot is a liar. I used to
> live in Grand Rapids and I recognize a Dutch name when I see one. Pekka
> de Groot isn't a Finn, she's a lying Dutchwoman.
The stupidity.
--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time
Visit the Holocaust History Project
http://www.holocaust-history.org
Visit the Nizkor site
http://www.nizkor.org
William Daffer
> Leonidas_Rex typed,
>
> That's not quite what a Jewish acquaintance told me Eugene. But then again,
> I.'m not Black. After all of this pseudo-research you do (by copying pages
> out of books written by Jews) on behalf of the Jew propaganda effort to
> co-opt the Mass Mind of Whiteness,
The *Mass Mind of Whiteness*?!?
What the fuck is that?
BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAA!
Man, you are funny when you try to be serious!
William
--
Ab hoc possum videre domum tuum.
Public Key: http://home.earthlink.net/~whdaffer/#PGP-public-key
Leonidas_Rex
Go suck on a gas pipe Jew. HA HA
William Daffer <whda...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:m366q2n...@localhost.localdomain...