Auschwitz: A Photographic History

Debunks

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Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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Having just browsed through this recently published book, I thought I would sit
down and write my recollections of the material while they are still fresh in
my mind. Apparently this latest Auschwitz publication is the brain child of
the Auschwitz State Museum, and boasts a hefty price of 80.00. It is unique in
that the publishers have collated a treasure trove of rarely seen photographs,
many of them alleged to have been taken by the SS themselves. The book is
liberally garnished with selected quotes from Commandant Hoess’s
"Autobiography." Undoubtedly this publication will be a source of much
contention in the future between revisionists and exterminationists. That
being said, I will now present my own musings in regard to the material, and
request that the reader bear with me if I seem to jump from point to point as I
recall what I feel are the most salient points.

The most striking feature about this photographic "book to end all books" re
Auschwitz is the scantiness of its Birkenau chapters. We are shown prisoners
constructing cremas 1 and 2, which are described as "gas chambers," but we are
never shown anything which even remotely approximates a gassing in action. The
two photos which are shown have been published repeatedly in other books
dealing with this subject. One of the photos in question is the famous photo
alleged to have been taken after a "gassing" by a hidden member of the
Sonderkommando. What makes this publication interesting is the fact that they
have enlarged the photo as much as is humanly possible without losing any of
the clarity. The curious thing about this photo is the fact that it in no way
supports a claim of homicidal gassing. What we see are bodies of ADULTS---and
the corpses all appear to be those of emaciated women. A photo, of course,
cannot show HOW these people died, but as we all know, epidemics in the camp
were quite common. The main point I wish to stress here is that, though the
previous pages show crowds of women and children arriving in the camp and
relaxing in the Birkenau "woods," thus giving the impression that they were
simply waiting to be gassed---publishing the picture of the Sonderkommando at a
later point, was obviously MEANT to "confirm" the charges, but cannot be
taken seriously, as there appears to be NO bodies of children or elderly among
the dead!

Furthermore, the second photo purports to show women being stampeded naked into
the gas chambers of Birkenau---yet another contradictory illusion, for have we
not all been told over and over again in the literature of the genre that the
victims were duped into believing they were just going in to be showered and
deloused, and ordered by the SS to take a number and attach a number to their
clothing on hooks arranged throughout the undressing room? Of course we
have…..We also now have the testimony of a female gypsy survivor, whom I
recently quoted at length in my FLUBBER post. She stated in an interview on
the History Channel, that upon arrival at Birkenau all the women were ordered
to undress OUTSIDE upon arrival, and were later driven into the CREMA at
Birkenau, where they were all given a shower and deloused. Aside from the
humiliation of having to disrobe under the staring eyes of the male SS guards,
this woman suffered no further torments upon arrival. The book even depicts
the "false" showerheads installed in the Cremas to "deceive" the new
arrivals….a very clever stratagem indeed, as the gypsy women were thoroughly
showered, cleaned, and refreshed by means of these same "fake" showerheads!

Another rather rare photo published in the book shows a cart of corpses being
taken to the Cremas. What is most obvious about these corpses is that they
appear to be covered in excrement---a sure sign of death by typhus and
dysentery—and a good reason indeed for SS Dr. Thilo’s remark about Auschwitz
being "Anus Mundi," or anus of the world.

Other notable photos and comments include photos of the canisters allegedly
buried by former Sonderkommandos, where they recounted gruesome tales of mass
murder by gas. Needless to say. ANYONE could have forged these papers, simply
by burying old canisters found and retained in the camp after it’s liberation.

Perhaps the most striking example of photographic forgery in regard to this
publication is their reliance upon the rarely seen or mentioned "documentary"
film, "The Liberation of Auschwitz," taken in 1945 by---you guessed it---the
propagandists of the good old USSR! There we will find ALL the "evidence"
referred to again and again by exterminationists in countless publications on
the holocaust. We are shown an alleged ditch where bodies were said to have
been cremated to ashes by the Sonderkommando when the Cremas had broken down.
Curiously, the ditch itself is nothing but a quagmire, filled to capacity with
muddy water to the point where one couldn’t burn a can of Sterno in this
morass, to say nothing of thousands of human corpses. The dimensions of the
pit also show conclusively that it would be impossible to have burned masses of
corpses in this location, which had always been a morass.

We are also shown clumsy Soviet frauds which are purported to have been "mass
graves," yet the corpses allegedly "discovered" by the "Extraordinary
fact-finding Commission" were obviously just transported to the site, where a
fresh hole had been dug, and simply "planted" there for propaganda purposes.
In fact, only a few fresh appearing corpses are to be seen in these selected
offerings.

Another interesting photo is the latrine, which certainly does not correspond
to Gisela Perl’s description of the same in her book, "I was a Doctor in
Auschwitz." The latrines in the photograph appear to be quite clean and
designed along military lines. Two rows of slats with suitable hygienic covers
in a large, clean, orderly hall give the lie to Gisela’s fanciful description.

We are also presented with two photos of emaciated children allegedly taken
from the files of Dr. Mengele. Aside from the fact that Mengele’s files have
never been uncovered, to the best of my knowledge, the photos themselves
certainly do not support any of the incredible allegations made against the
doctor by numerous "survivors." In fact, those who worked with Mengele have
claimed, as is reiterated in the book on Mengele by Jewish authors Gerald
Posner, Robert Lifton and others, that he was SHOCKED by the rare and unusual
diseases which struck many of the children in the camp.

Of course we are also shown the rather common photos of new arrivals at the
camp and so on, but again, none of these photos supports a contention of mass
murder.

To the uninitiated and misinformed, and most of all to YOUNGSTERS, who are the
real intended targets of this malicious propaganda, this book disseminates a
particularly virulent form of old hoary soviet propaganda, calculated to
indoctrinate the young into believing that which never happened in order to
sustain a monstrous historical lie. If this lie had been attributed to any
other race, religion, or nationality, it would never have survived beyond two
decades, much like the "Jewish ritual Murder" charge, or the Case of Leo Frank,
or the Rosenberg Case, or the "Son of Sam…" Starting to get THIS picture?

.

Debunks

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Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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DeppityBob

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Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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>
>Another rather rare photo published in the book shows a cart of corpses
>being
>taken to the Cremas. What is most obvious about these corpses is that they
>appear to be covered in excrement---a sure sign of death by typhus and
>dysentery—and a good reason indeed for SS Dr. Thilo’s remark about Auschwitz
>being "Anus Mundi," or anus of the world.

Think hard, Booger--are you sure you didn't mean Belsen? Or maybe Belzec? Or
Belmont? Or even Bellinger? You KNOW how them typos get out of control!

Other than that, you're still being deceitful and obvious about it. Bodies
which "seem to be covered in excrement" may well be because, not expecting to
be GASSED to death, nobody thought of voiding their bowels before entering the
gas chamber. In death (and in the terrifying moments of mass panic and hysteria
just previous), those muscles loosen.

Not that this makes any sense to Jew-hating Joe.

Dep

"Always tell the truth. It's the easiest thing to remember."
--David Mamet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Like short haired women? Snotty comments? Penguins?
http://members.aol.com/deppitybob/shlu/PAGEONE.html

Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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In article <19990221222131...@ng-ce1.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote:

> Auschwitz: A Photographic History
>
> Having just browsed through this recently published book....

Amazon does not list this book.
Barnes & Nobles does not list this book.
Borders does not list list book.

Hmmm. Maybe Jew-hating Joe actually meant:

AUSCHWITZ: A HISTORY IN PHOTOGRAPHS.
Swiebocka, Teresa.
Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1993
ISBN 0-253-35581-8

...Which, of course, is _not_ a "recently published book."

Or maybe Jew-hating Joe's handler screwed him. Again. Or maybe Jew-hating
Joe just simply lied. Again.

According to Swiebocka:

NAZI PHOTOGRAPHS

The Nazis wanted to record what they were doing, but on the other hand
they wereaware that photographs of concentration camps would be damning
evidence of their crimes. Accordingly, and in compliance with the general
directives of SS_Reichsfu"hrer Heinrich Himmler and the Inspectorate of
Concentration Camps, the Auschwitz authorities sought to forbid
unauthorized photography of anything connected with the camp, directly or
indirectly. Order No. 4/43, dated 2 February 1943 and signed by the camp's
commandant, SS_Obersturmbannfu"hrer Rudolf Ho"ss, was explicit on this>
Item 3 reads: 'I want to point out once more that taking pictures in the
camp is forbidden. I shall punish with the utmost severity those who do
not observe this order.' The only exception was for official photographs
specifically authorized.

_Gestapo Photographs_

At first, all photographs were made in a single laboratory known as the
Erkennungsdienst (Reconnaissance Service) which was supervised by the
Political Section--that is, the camp Gestapo. The head of the laboratory
was SS-Hauptscharfu"rer Berhardt Walter and his assistant was
SS-Unterscharfu"hrer Ernst Hofmann. The whole operation of developing the
film, fixing the negatives, and printing photographs and enlargements was
generally done by a team of ten to twelve prisoners. This process was
supervised by SS men to ensure that the negatives and prints did not fall
into the wrong hands. The finished photographs were handed over to the
authorized recipients and their delivery was recorded; duplicate and
defective prints scrupulously destroyed. Highly sensitive picture--for
example, those of executions or the burning of bodies--were developed by
the SS men themselves the most incriminating were printed only in a single
copy, and the negatives would be destroyed when they had been handed over
to the commandant.

A major part of the photographs in the Museum are contact prints of
headshots of prisoners: about 38,000, or just under 10 percent of the
people who were registered in the concentration camp for forced labor. In
this context, perhaps, it needs to be restated that Auschwitz had two
functions: it was the largest of the Nazi concentration camps used as an
instrument of terror and for forced labor, and later in the war it became
the main centre to which Jews were deported to be murdered. Prisoners sent
to Auschwitz in order to be interned there were registered and received
prisoner numbers; until 1943, most were also photographed. These
photographs comprised part of the camp records and were numbered
consecutively. The majority are of Polish prisoners, since prisoners were
photographed systematically only during the first years of the camp's
existence, when it was used mainly for Poles. Jews sent straight to the
gas chambers on arrival were not registered, had no prisoner numbers, and
were not photographed. Of the relatively few Jews who were selected on
arrival as being fit for forced labor, only a very small proportion were
photographed. The consequence is that there are therefore very few
headshots of Jewish prisoners in Auschwitz; many of those which do exist
are of Jews who happened to have been among groups of political prisoners
sent to Auschwitz before 1942.

The practice of photographing prisoners was largely discontinued in 1943,
except for particular groups of newcomers: Germans, for example, were
photographed until the very end. The Erkennungsdienst also took
photographs of captured partisans; of prisoners shot while trying to
escape; of prisoners who committed suicide rather than face torture; and
of the effects of medical experiments conducted on prisoners by SS
doctors. However, except for the latter category, virtually none of these
photographs have survived. Jews considered particularly 'interesting'
because of their physical features or dress were also brought to the
Erkennungsdienst to be photographed from time to time.

When the Nazis evacuated Auschwitz, they tried to destroy the photographs.
Bronislaw Jureczek, a former Polish political prisoner, described how the
photographs survived:

At almost the last moment we were ordered to burn all the negatives and
photographs which were in the Erkennungsdienst. First we put wet
photographic paper and also photographs and then a large number of
photographs and negatives into a tile stove in such large numbers as to
block the exhaust outlet. This insured that when we set fire to the
materials in the stove only the photographs and negatives near the stove
door would be consumed, and that the fire would later die out due to lack
of air. After the war I learned that our assumption had been right, and
that a high percentage of the photographs and negatives had survived and
found their way into the right hands...Moreover, under the pretext of
haste, I had deliberately scattered a number of photographs and negatives
in the rooms of the labs. I knew that with the hurried evacuation of the
camp, no one would have time to gather them all and that something would
survive.

Supervision of the laboratory by the camp Gestapo was very strict because
the photographs were considered top secret; even the slightest suspicion
of a prisoner could result in a death sentence. Even so, prisoners working
in the Gestapo photographic laboratory risked their lives may times to
smuggle material out of the camp. According to Alfred Woycicki, another
Pole who had worked in the laboratory:

Original photographs showing equipment and various scenes in the camp were
sent out several times. In one case, they were pictures taken by someone i
the women's section of Birkenau. I do not now the photographer's name. He
was a Hauptscharfu"hrer who had been especially sent [to Auschwitz
II-Birkenau] for this purpose by order of the RSHA. That was in late
1943 or
early in 1944. The camp was informed about his arrival...He took a
number of
pictures in the women's camp and then brought then to the Erkennungsdienst
on the same day to have them developed so he could decide if the pictures
were good. Because of that, I saw all the pictures. Their contents so
incriminated the camp authorities that I could not understand why they had
been taken. One showed a pile of female bodies...Another showed the
infirmary for women. Patients lay in total disorder; several naked and
clearly exhausted.

Woycicki later testified that in spite of the exceptional vigilance of the SS he
had managed to make one print of each photograph, and that these were
smuggled out of the camp. Unfortunately, like many other photographs
smuggled out of the camp, they have disappeared.

_The Murder of the Jews of Hungary: How the Evidence Survived_

The best known of the SS photographs are those taken to record the arrival
of the Jews from Hungary at Auschwitz II-Birkenau in 1944, the SS doctors'
selection of those to be murdered immediately by gassing, and how the
victims actually went to their deaths in the gas chambers. What is less
well known is how these photographs survived.

The photographs come from an album found after the war by a Jewish
survivor of Auschwitz named Lili Jacob (later Zelmanovic, now Meir). She
came originally from Bilk, a small Slovak town annexed by Hungary in 1939.
The Jews of Bilk were forcibly relocated to the ghetto in Berehovo, and on
24 May 1944 they were deported from Berehovo to Auschwitz II-Birkenau.
When their train arrived there after an exhausting two-day journey, they
had to undergo the life-or-death selection conducted on the railway ramp
by SS doctors. Lili, then 18 tears old, her three elder brothers, and her
father survived the selection. They were designated by the SS doctors as
fit for work and were sent off for forced labor rather than to their
deaths in the gas chambers of Auschwitz II-Birkenau. Other family members,
including her mother, two younger brothers, and more distant relatives,
were not so lucky. In fact, Lili Jacob was the only one of that group to
survive.

At the end of the war, Lili Jacob was in the Nordhausen-Dora camp, sick
with typhus and in the camp hospital. Along with other sick prisoners she
was rehoused by the liberating army in barracks that had formerly housed
the SS. In searching the barracks for winter clothing, Lili came across
the photograph album. In the album she found photographs of concentration
camp prisoners, including--by remarkable coincidence--photographs not only
of members of her family who had been murdered in Auschwitz II-Birkenau,
but of herself in a roll-call of new women prisoners. Not surprisingly,
she decided to keep the album.

After the war, Lili Jacob lived for a time in Czechoslovakia. In 1946, in
desperate need for money, she attempted to sell the album to
representatives of the Jewish community in Prague. They could not afford
her price, but eventually she agreed to let them make negatives from the
photographs in return for a smaller payment. Thirty were subsequently
reproduced in a book entitled _The Tragedy of Slovak Jews_ which was
published in Bratislava in 1949.

For several years thereafter, the negatives remained unused. In 1955, two Czech
researchers who had themselves been in Auschwitz, Ota Kraus and Erich
Kulka, were going through the archives of a Prague museum looking for
material for a book when they came across two packets labeled 'Photographs
from Auschwitz'. The packets contained 203 glass negatives in a 5x7-in
format, and they recognized them as being photographs of Auschwitz
II-Birkenau. Knowing that in order to identify them properly they would
have to go to Poland, they contacted a former Auschwitz prisoner in Poland
for assistance. The person they was Jo'zef Cyrankiewicz, the Polish
Premier; and at his invitation they went to the Auschwitz Museum taking
sixty-four of the negatives with them.

Careful examination of the photographs in the Museum by Professor Jan Sehn
and two former Auschwitz prisoners, Kazimierz Smolen' and David
Szmulewski, confirmed their opinion. In an official note written on
November 1956 they stated: 'Having analyzed carefully the contents of the
reproductions, we have come to the conclusion that, with the exception of
two photographs, all the others are prints of photographs are prints made
when great numbers of Jewish people were getting off at the railroad
siding in Brzezinka [Auschwitz II-Birkenau]/ One set of these photographs
was given to the Auschwitz Museum and another to Yad Vashem in Israel.
However, the origin of the photographs was unknown, beyond the fact that a
women in Prague had permitted negatives to be made in 1946.

Lili Jacob had meanwhile emigrated to the United States, taking the album
with her. In 1961, in connection with the trial of Adolf Eichmann, an
interview with her (now Lili Zelmanovic) was published in the United
States in _Parade_ magazine in which she described how she had found the
album and explained that she still had it in her possession. When the
Auschwitz Museum learned of the interview, they wrote her and asked for
more details. Her reply provided the information that has been given here.

The negatives found by Kraus and Kulka played an important role in the
pre-trial investigations in connection with the trial in Frankfurt in
1963-65 of twenty-two former SS men from Auschwitz. When the existence of
the original album was mad known, Lili Jacob was herself invited to
testify in Frankfurt, bringing the album with her/

The photos served to identify a former Blockfu"hrer, Baretzky, as one of
the SS men present at the selection of Jews at the railway ramp. During
this trial, Bernhardt Walter, former head of the Gestapo photographic
laboratory, was questioned as to who had taken the photographs. During the
pre-trial investigations by the German prosecutor's office, he had
admitted that he had run a photographic laboratory in Auschwitz, but said
that his only task had been to photograph the newly arrived prisoners sent
to him in Auschwitz I. When he was shown photographs taken on the ramp at
Auschwitz II-Birkenau he denied having taken them. He claimed that he had
visited Auschwitz II-Birkenau only once, to take a panoramic view of the
camp from the main guardhouse watch-tower, and that he had received the
order to do so from Berlin. Questioned again, he admitted he had heard
talk of the 'ramp', but denied that he had ever heard the term
'selection'. Asked who might have taken the pictures, he was unable to
give definite answer but said that it could have been Ernst Hofmann, his
assistant. Later he admitted having seen in the drying room of the
laboratory photographs of groups of Jews that could perhaps have come from
a set of pictures taken at the ramp. While he admitted that he had taken
photographs of Jews brought to the Erkennungsdienst because their physical
features or dress were considered particularly interesting, he again
stressed that he had never taken pictures outside Auschwitz I, and
repeated that Hofmann had been one of the
'outside' photographers. He did not question the authenticity of the
photographs. He even admitted that they were official photographs, and
that they could not have been taken from a hiding place.

During the trial, Walter continued to deny that he had ever been at the ramp.
Baretzky accused him of lying and said that he had often seen him at the ramp
riding a BMW motor cycle. Walter initially denied the accusation, claiming
that he had had a smaller motor cycle; later he confessed that he had been
at the ramp but had not said so earlier because he had not understood the
questions of the court.

According to Herman Langbein's account of the trial, Walter eventually
admitted he had taken the photographs at the ramp; however introductions
to two books published almost simultaneously, Serge Klarsfeld and Peter
Hellman both said that Walter was adamant to the very end that he had not
taken the pictures. It is quite obvious that the photographs could only
have been taken by an SS man authorized to do so: it could have been
Walter, Hofmann acting with Walter's knowledge, or both of them. The
latter seems the most probable. Bronislaw Jureczek, the former Polish
prisoner mentioned earlier as having worked in the laboratory, said in his
testimony, 'Boss Walter also took pictures of prisoners coming to
Auschwitz by train.' Wilhelm Brasse, another former prisoner who had
worked in the laboratory, said that 'Hofmann used to replace Walter in
supervising prisoners at work, and like Walter, used to leave that place
in order to take pictures outside.' When Brasse saw the photographs from
the album he asserted: 'Some [photographs] were taken by Walter, some by
Hofmann, and some were reproduced from a film delivered personally by the
camp commandant, Rudolf Höss. The photographs were placed in the album by
Myskowkski, a prisoner working in the Erkennungsdeist he decorated the
album and wrote the captions for the photographs, The album was made for
the camp commandant.'

_Bauleitung Photographs_

At the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942, a second photographic laborator
was established in Auschwitz. This was operated by the Central
Construction Office of the SS (Zentralbauleitung der Waffen SS) and was
known as the Bauleitung laboratory.

The Bauleitung laboratory was under the direction of Dietrich Kamann, an SS man
responsible for photographic documentation of the construction work in Auschwitz
and its surroundings to supplement the Construction Office's written reports.
Originally the Erkennungsdienst laboratory had been responsible for this, but
because the staff there objected to doing location work in all weathers it
was hard for Kamann to maintain the necessary records. Ludwik :Lawin, a
Polish prisoner employed in arranging the photographs in albums to record
the progress of construction, suggested to Kamann that he set up a
separate photographic unit in the camp's construction office. The idea
appealed to Kamann: having his own photographic unit would make him
indispensable and help prevent him being sent to the front. He set about
obtaining the necessary authorization and rapidly
succeeded.

The majority of the Bauleitung photographs were taken in 1943, the year when
building activity in Auschwitz II-Birkenau was at its peak. They provide a solid
record of the very many types of construction undertaken: barracks for
prisoners, drainage ditches, workshops and storage facilities, gas
chambers and crematoria, and other buildings.

Lawin decided to keep some of the photographs he was supposed to be pasting into
albums for Kamann--many of which had figured in Bauleitung progress reports, had
been enlarged for display on the Bauleitung bulletin boards, or used in albums
presented to SS dignitaries--so that he would have documentary evidence of Nazi
atrocities. He later wrote:

I found it relatively easy to persuade Kubiak, a prisoner working as an
assistant in the laboratory, to make contact prints from many negatives...I
mean photographs which in my opinion had higher value than those connected
with construction. I gave one set of prints to Dubiel [a prisoner assigned
to work as a gardener]; I wanted him to have them in case I didn't survive.

Unfortunately those photographs have disappeared. However, Lawin buried
another set of photographs beneath a waste dump near the Construction
Office and took care to remember the place he had chosen. On 25 September
1946, a flask containing negatives of fifty-two photographs taken at
Auschwitz was found in the exact spot Lawin specified, fourteen paces from
the third barrack used by the Construction
Office.

In 1982, the Auschwitz Museum received from Yad Vashem in Jerusalem about 500
negatives of photographs from an album called _Bauleitung_. The majority
showed the construction and expansion of the camp and buildings in the
vicinity of Auschwitz; some were identical to the photographs hidden by
Lawin. The album had reached Yad Vashem via the Jewish community of
Berlin, having probably been turned over to them by a Soviet general in
October 1945. It had been carefully looked after by a member of the
community, Heinz Cols, but in 1975 he had suggested giving it to a museum
in Jerusalem. It was ultimately acquired by Yad Vashem, which later gave a
set of the photographs to the Auschwitz Museum.

Soure: Swiebocka, _Auschwitz: a history in photographs_, pp. 34-42.

[Jew-hating Joe's bullshit snipped]

Mark

--

"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and
evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between
political parties--but right through every human heart--and all
human hearts." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"

Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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In article <19990222004212...@ng-ca1.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote:

> Auschwitz: A Photographic History
>

Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

to

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Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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Ptvlf

Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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cif

Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

to

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/22/99

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Ceacaa

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Feb 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/23/99

to

Subject: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
From: deb...@aol.com (Debunks)
Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 1

The
two photos which are shown have been published repeatedly in other books
dealing with this subject. One of the photos in question is the famous photo
alleged to have been taken after a "gassing" by a hidden member of the
Sonderkommando. What makes this publication interesting is the fact
that they
have enlarged the photo as much as is humanly possible without
losing any of
the clarity.

[Ceacaa comments]
The photograph is claimed by Believers to have been taken from a
north facing door of Krema V. This appears to be impossible since
the doorwayss of Krema V all had stoops. Believers like VanPelt get
"around" the problem by "triming" the photograph so the lack of
stoop is not evident

Ceacaa

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Feb 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/23/99

to

Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 wrote:

According to Swiebocka:

NAZI PHOTOGRAPHS

*The Nazis wanted to record what they were doing, but on the
*other hand
*they wereaware that photographs of concentration camps
*would be damning
*evidence of their crimes.
[Ceacaa comments]
This is absurd Hoaxterism.
The Germans building the "gas chambers" had numberous
pictures of THEMSELVES taken working on the damn building.

They signed the plans, work orders and blueprints and then left
all the "damning evidence" for the Soviets to pick up. Actually
they made several copies of it all and sent it to various governmental
and private locations. It is clear that the Germans, either on a
personal level or on an organizational level, did not consider the
photographs and records "damning evidence".

[vanalstine]
*Accordingly, and in compliance with the general

directives of SS_Reichsfu"hrer Heinrich Himmler and the

*Inspectorate of

Concentration Camps, the Auschwitz authorities sought to forbid

*unauthorized photography of anything connected
*with the camp, directly or indirectly. Order No. 4/43,
*dated 2 February 1943 and signed by the camp's

commandant, SS_Obersturmbannfu"hrer Rudolf Ho"ss,

*was explicit on this>

Item 3 reads: 'I want to point out once more that

*taking pictures in the

camp is forbidden. I shall punish with the

*utmost severity those who do

not observe this order.' The only exception

*was for official photographs
specifically authorized.

_Gestapo Photographs_
[Ceacaa comments]
Ever go try to take photographs of the inside of any prison?
Of course there were restrictions on photographing. Add to it the
fact that a war was on and the Believers' interpetation of Camp
regulations becomes more tendentious. Typical of Believer "proof".

In fact, the Germans themselves took several aerial photographs of
Birkenau. Are the Believers claiming these "aerials" were done as
"official photographs specifically authorized"? Or do you admit that
the site was so "unspecial" that the German planes were even taking
pictures of the "gas chambers"?

Anyway, Mark, is off again trying to claim some level of secrecy for the
"gas chambers". In fact, Mark now knows that the "gas chambers"
and all the operations of getting people into the building and
Zyclon into the "gas chamber" was done in the open, visible from
much of the camp and from the surrounding fields and woods.

The "gas chambers" were passed by every inmate comming or going
to the vast Central Sauna for their baths.

The "gas chambers" were constructed by a mixed crew of inmates,
Polish civilians, and German civilians under very light SS supervision,
ie. 1 SS to 100 workers.

These facts, and the additional fact that the Germans left all the
photographs and plans lying around indicates that the level of
secrecy of the "gas chambers" was rather low.

DeppityBob

unread,

Feb 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/23/99

to

Pretty flimsy. The signed order from Hoess is enough to establish the policy,
and none of your not-too-penetrating queries here refute it. My question is,
have YOU ever tried to take photographs inside a prison, Allen? Judging by the
enormous numbers of prison pictures available in all media currently, I'd say
it's not too difficult to do.

DeppityBob

unread,

Feb 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/24/99

to

So scan and post the original.

David

unread,

Feb 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/24/99

to

DeppityBob wrote:

> Dep
>
> "Always tell the truth. It's the easiest thing to remember."
> --David Mamet
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Like short haired women? Snotty comments? Penguins?
> http://members.aol.com/deppitybob/shlu/PAGEONE.html

Prove it. Post one.

David

Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/24/99

to

In article <19990223191428...@ng109.aol.com>,
deppi...@aol.comx.y.z... (DeppityBob) wrote:

[snip]

> > [Ceacaa comments]
> >The photograph is claimed by Believers to have been taken
> >from a north facing door of Krema V. This appears to be
> >impossible since the doorwayss of Krema V all had stoops.
> >Believers like VanPelt get "around" the problem by "triming"
> >the photograph so the lack of stoop is not evident
>
> So scan and post the original.

The "untrimmed" photographs can by found in _Technique_ (p.422) and they
do indeed, contrary to Mr. Allen's deceitful claim, clearly shows that the
photo was taken from inside Krema V:

Having the origional photographs makes it possible to identify and
precisely locate the scenes and positions of the photographer. Photos 15
and 16 were taken from the inside of a building, throught an open door.
The only Birkenau Krematorium possessing the three elements to be found on
the two photos, a door giving onto a barbed wire fence with the birch wood
in the background, was Krematorium V. IN the western section there was the
door of the western gas chamber meeting these conditions and two doors in
the north side, that of the northern gas chamber and the double doors of
th furnace room. A beam, the end of whioch is visible on the photos,
supported the porch roofs over these doors (not shown on drawing 2036, but
visible on photo PMO neg. no. 20995/509). The porch roof outside the
furnace room was about a metre higher than the door and was not visible
from the interior, but those of the gas chambers, where the roof of the
building was lower, were only just above the doors and could be seen from
the interior. The line of the crowns of the trees in the Birch Wood
diminsh from left to right, while it would have been horizontal had the
picture been taken from the west end of the building. This clue together
with the orientation of the shadows indicates the picture was were taken
looking northwest, the photographer being in the northern gas chamber of
Krematorium V [see sketch map]. The wind, normally from the north, was
blowing from the west, or more likely, northwest.

Pressac, _Technique_, p.424.

Ceacaa

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Feb 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/24/99

to

<< Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
From: deppi...@aol.comx.y.z... (DeppityBob)
Date: Mer 24 Fév 1999 0:14
Message-id: <19990223191428...@ng109.aol.com>

>
>
>
>Subject: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
>From: deb...@aol.com (Debunks)
>Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 1
> The
>two photos which are shown have been published repeatedly in other books
>dealing with this subject. One of the photos in question is the famous
>photo
>alleged to have been taken after a "gassing" by a hidden member of the
>Sonderkommando. What makes this publication interesting is the fact
>that they
>have enlarged the photo as much as is humanly possible without
>losing any of
>the clarity.

> [Ceacaa comments]
>The photograph is claimed by Believers to have been taken from a
>north facing door of Krema V. This appears to be impossible since
>the doorwayss of Krema V all had stoops. Believers like VanPelt get
>"around" the problem by "triming" the photograph so the lack of
>stoop is not evident

So scan and post the original.

Dep
[Ceacaa comments]
Dep, you forget that we Revisionists are
poor. The best I can offer is some
old time cites to Pressac-and you
got rid of your Pressac!

Ceacaa

unread,

Feb 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/24/99

to

Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History

From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

Date: Mer 24 Fév 1999 4:13
Message-id: <mvanalstnot-23...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>

In article <19990223191428...@ng109.aol.com>,
deppi...@aol.comx.y.z... (DeppityBob) wrote:

[snip]

> > [Ceacaa comments]

> >The photograph is claimed by Believers to have been taken
> >from a north facing door of Krema V. This appears to be
> >impossible since the doorwayss of Krema V all had stoops.
> >Believers like VanPelt get "around" the problem by "triming"
> >the photograph so the lack of stoop is not evident
>
> So scan and post the original.

The "untrimmed" photographs can by found in _Technique_ (p.422) and they

do indeed, contrary to Mr. Allen's deceitful claim, clearly shows that the
photo was taken from inside Krema V:

[snip Pressac convolutions]
[Ceacaa comments]
O, Mr. "this manhole is a zyclon vent"?

You never even been to Birkenau and you
are brazenly telling everone what's there?
Seems like just yesterday you were
sreeching that there was No roof on
Leichenkeller 1 of Krema II.

Anyway, compare the photographs in
Pressac Technique.
One doorway has a stoop of almost 1
meter and the doorway in the "secret"
photograph has none.
Since we know the stoop was part of the
foundation pour of the Krema V ergo
the pictures are of different doorways.

Pressac seems to have overlooked
the missing stoop-

Ceacaa

unread,

Feb 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/24/99

to

Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History

From: deppi...@aol.comx.y.z... (DeppityBob)
Date: Mar 23 Fév 1999 23:49
Message-id: <19990223184920...@ng109.aol.com>

Dep
[Ceacaa comments]
You are getting confused my Believer friend.
I would bet that every prison has an
order against taking pictures.
Taking pictures is a different matter.

At Auschwitz and many other prisons
the rule was more honored in its
breach. As we now know, numerous
alledgedly "Top Secret" photographs
of the "gas chambers", their construction,
and their designers and builders
were left floating around.

DeppityBob

unread,

Feb 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/25/99

to

>
>>
>>Subject: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
>>From: deb...@aol.com (Debunks)
>>Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 1
>> The
>>two photos which are shown have been published repeatedly in other books
>>dealing with this subject. One of the photos in question is the famous
>>photo
>>alleged to have been taken after a "gassing" by a hidden member of the
>>Sonderkommando. What makes this publication interesting is the fact
>>that they
>>have enlarged the photo as much as is humanly possible without
>>losing any of
>>the clarity.

>> [Ceacaa comments]
>>The photograph is claimed by Believers to have been taken from a
>>north facing door of Krema V. This appears to be impossible since
>>the doorwayss of Krema V all had stoops. Believers like VanPelt get
>>"around" the problem by "triming" the photograph so the lack of
>>stoop is not evident
>
>
>So scan and post the original.
>

>Dep
> [Ceacaa comments]
>Dep, you forget that we Revisionists are
>poor. The best I can offer is some
>old time cites to Pressac-and you
>got rid of your Pressac!

Well, ya know, all I can tell you is that I am definitely not swimming in
cash--things are very tight for me--but I have access to a scanner. Shoot,
they're $79 at Best Buy now for a basic one. And I didn't get rid of my
Pressac--I never had a copy, and I haven't gotten the one on interlibrary loan
yet.

Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/25/99

to

In article <19990223191428...@ng109.aol.com>,
deppi...@aol.comx.y.z... (DeppityBob) wrote:

[snip]

> > [Ceacaa comments]

> >The photograph is claimed by Believers to have been taken
> >from a north facing door of Krema V. This appears to be
> >impossible since the doorwayss of Krema V all had stoops.
> >Believers like VanPelt get "around" the problem by "triming"
> >the photograph so the lack of stoop is not evident
>
> So scan and post the original.

The "untrimmed" photographs can by found in _Technique_ (p.422) and they

do indeed, contrary to Mr. Allen's deceitful claim, clearly shows that the
photo was taken from inside Krema V:

Jeffrey G. Brown

unread,

Feb 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/25/99

to

In article <19990225225109...@ng100.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Joe Bellinger, Clown Prince of Revisionists) wrote:

>Now, are you going to discuss these photos
>or slink away like the mangy cur you are?

Why would anyone want to 'discuss' anything with you, Clown? As we've just
seen, when you're caught in out-and-out lies, you'll hide out for a few
days, come back claiming you can't find the evidence you had been so sure
of, and proclaim that you were right anyway.

JGB

=====================================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown jeff_...@bigfoot.com
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful..." -- '2010'

Debunks

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

>Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
>From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

>Date: 2/22/99 1:16 PM EST
>Message-id: <mvanalstnot-22...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>

>
>In article <19990222004212...@ng-ca1.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
>(Debunks) wrote:
>
>> Auschwitz: A Photographic History
>>
>> Having just browsed through this recently published book....
>
>Amazon does not list this book.
>Barnes & Nobles does not list this book.
>Borders does not list list book.
>
>Hmmm. Maybe Jew-hating Joe actually meant:
>

>
>AUSCHWITZ: A HISTORY IN PHOTOGRAPHS.
>Swiebocka, Teresa.

This could very well be the book. I did not write down the title or the
author.

>.Which, of course, is _not_ a "recently published book."
>

93 is recent enough for me.

SNIP the propaganda. When are you going to discuss the photos?

>
>Soure: Swiebocka, _Auschwitz: a history in photographs_, pp. 34-42.
>
>
>[Jew-hating Joe's bullshit snipped]
>
>Mark
>
>--

Just did that to you too. Now, when are you going to discuss those photos
which do not prove a word of what you claimed happened in Auschwitz?

Debunks

unread,

Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

>Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History

>From: deppi...@aol.comx.y.z... (DeppityBob)
>Date: 2/22/99 1:10 AM EST
>Message-id: <19990222011041...@ng27.aol.com>

>Another rather rare photo published in the book shows a cart of corpses
>>being
>>taken to the Cremas. What is most obvious about these corpses is that they
>>appear to be covered in excrement---a sure sign of death by typhus and
>>dysentery—and a good reason indeed for SS Dr. Thilo’s remark about Auschwitz
>>being "Anus Mundi," or anus of the world.
>
>Think hard, Booger--are you sure you didn't mean Belsen? Or maybe Belzec? Or
>Belmont? Or even Bellinger? You KNOW how them typos get out of control!

Yes, especially when you make them. Now, are you going to discuss these photos

or slink away like the mangy cur you are?

>Bodies

>which "seem to be covered in excrement" may well be because, not expecting to
>be GASSED to death, nobody thought of voiding their bowels before entering
>the
>gas chamber. In death (and in the terrifying moments of mass panic and
>hysteria
>just previous), those muscles loosen.
>
>Not that this makes any sense to Jew-hating Joe.
>
>Dep

It doesn't make sense because it is a lie. And unless you have seen the photo
you are in no position to comment on them. Next, please.

Jeffrey G. Brown

unread,

Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

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Debunks

unread,

Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

>Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History

>From: jeff_...@bigfoot.com (Jeffrey G. Brown)
>Date: 2/25/99 11:15 PM EST
>Message-id: <jeff_brown-25...@10.0.0.2>

>
>In article <19990225225109...@ng100.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
>(Joe Bellinger, Clown Prince of Revisionists) wrote:
>

>>Now, are you going to discuss these photos
>>or slink away like the mangy cur you are?
>

>Why would anyone want to 'discuss' anything with you, Clown? As we've just
>seen, when you're caught in out-and-out lies, you'll hide out for a few
>days, come back claiming you can't find the evidence you had been so sure
>of, and proclaim that you were right anyway.
>
>JGB
>
>

This from a wretch who has never debated an issue in his life in this ng. His
sole claim to fame is calling others liars. Barf....gag.

Debunks

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

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Debunks

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

honeybs wrote:
> "Kat..." wrote:
> >I am going through hell right now if you can't tell...
> >I hate f'ing moving!!!
> >There is one benefit though...
> >At least I have ditched the excess baggage... *Big Grin...*
> >Kat...
> ><Meow...>

> Some women will do anything to keep from cleaning the house!
> Greg the beekeep

*Hissssssssssss!!!*
<Snarl...>

Now that is NOT funny Greg...

My 6 years old told me that I should get off my lazy fat arse
and clean the house...

This kind of crap is coming from the excess baggage who couldn't
be bothered to clean up after himself for the last 7 years...

I am NO ONES f'ing servant...
<*Growwwwwwwwlllll!!!*>

It is surprising though...
I cleaned the house 2 days ago and guess what...
Even though there are boxes everywhere, the house is still clean...
I wonder why...

R.M.H. FAQ's
<http://home.earthlink.net/~mildness/yo/>

My website: <http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/kbs1/>

Debunks

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

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Debunks

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

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Debunks

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

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Debunks

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

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Debunks

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

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Jtol pqhqzm Ui Cwgp Tqjqr Zadqfvt Fyyf

Debunks

unread,

Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

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DeppityBob

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

This from Jew-hating Joe, who couldn't even get the *title* of the book he was
quoting correct.

Flushed down the ol' sabatini.

DeppityBob

unread,

Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

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DeppityBob

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

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Debunks

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

>Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History

>From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

>Date: 2/26/99 3:25 PM EST
>Message-id: <mvanalstnot-26...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
>
>
DEBUNKS first:

>
>> SNIP the propaganda. When are you going to discuss the photos?
>
>I did. I quoted the book, but Jew-hating Joe could handle it so he snipped
>it right out. Typical.

What is typical is that you have avoided discussing the actual photos I
referred to in my initial post. I am not concerned with hearing you parrot
what is written in the book, but apparently you own it, or have borrowed it, so
deal with the actual pictures I have referred to. Can you do that? And I want
YOUR opinion on those photos, not reposting the propaganda which tried to pass
for proof.

Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

In article <19990225224840...@ng100.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote:

> >Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
> >From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

> >Date: 2/22/99 1:16 PM EST
> >Message-id: <mvanalstnot-22...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
> >
> >In article <19990222004212...@ng-ca1.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
> >(Debunks) wrote:
> >
> >> Auschwitz: A Photographic History
> >>
> >> Having just browsed through this recently published book....
> >
> >Amazon does not list this book.
> >Barnes & Nobles does not list this book.
> >Borders does not list list book.
> >
> >Hmmm. Maybe Jew-hating Joe actually meant:
> >
>
> >
> >AUSCHWITZ: A HISTORY IN PHOTOGRAPHS.
> >Swiebocka, Teresa.
>
> This could very well be the book. I did not write down the title or the
> author.
>
> >.Which, of course, is _not_ a "recently published book."
> >
>
> 93 is recent enough for me.

Ah, another "interpretation"!

> SNIP the propaganda. When are you going to discuss the photos?

I did. I quoted the book, but Jew-hating Joe couldn't handle it so he snipped
it right out. Typical.

> >Soure: Swiebocka, _Auschwitz: a history in photographs_, pp. 34-42.

> >
> >
> >[Jew-hating Joe's bullshit snipped]

Mark

--

"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and

Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

In article <19990226154714...@ng-fv1.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote:

> >Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
> >From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

> >Date: 2/26/99 3:25 PM EST
> >Message-id: <mvanalstnot-26...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
> >
> >
> DEBUNKS first:
>
>
> >

> >> SNIP the propaganda. When are you going to discuss the photos?
> >

> >I did. I quoted the book, but Jew-hating Joe could handle it so he snipped
> >it right out. Typical.
>

> What is typical is that you have avoided discussing the actual photos I
> referred to in my initial post.

Which are? Page and photo numbers?

> I am not concerned with hearing you parrot
> what is written in the book,

Of course, Jew-hating Joe isn't! He never is. It get's in the way of his lies.

> ...but apparently you own it,

Yup.

> ...or have borrowed it, so

> deal with the actual pictures I have referred to.

Which are? Page and photo numbers?

> ...Can you do that?

Can Jew-hating Joe cite the page and photo numbers?

> ...And I want YOUR opinion on those photos,

Which photos? Page and photo numbers?

> ...not reposting the propaganda

> which tried to pass for proof.

IOW, Jew-hating Joe doesn't want to hear what the author, a historian btw,
says about them.

How typical.

yale_f._edeiken

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

> deb...@aol.com (Debunks) writes:
> >Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History

> >From: deppi...@aol.comx.y.z... (DeppityBob)
> >Date: 2/22/99 1:10 AM EST
> >Message-id: <19990222011041...@ng27.aol.com>

> >Another rather rare photo published in the book shows a cart of corpses
> >>being
> >>taken to the Cremas. What is most obvious about these corpses is that they
> >>appear to be covered in excrement---a sure sign of death by typhus and
> >>dysentery—and a good reason indeed for SS Dr. Thilo’s remark about Auschwitz
> >>being "Anus Mundi," or anus of the world.

> >Think hard, Booger--are you sure you didn't mean Belsen? Or maybe Belzec? Or
> >Belmont? Or even Bellinger? You KNOW how them typos get out of control!

> Yes, especially when you make them. Now, are you going to discuss these photos

> or slink away like the mangy cur you are?

Sure. You're a medical ignoramus.

> >Bodies
> >which "seem to be covered in excrement" may well be because, not expecting to
> >be GASSED to death, nobody thought of voiding their bowels before entering
> >the
> >gas chamber. In death (and in the terrifying moments of mass panic and
> >hysteria
> >just previous), those muscles loosen.

> >Not that this makes any sense to Jew-hating Joe.

> It doesn't make sense because it is a lie.

It doesn't make sense to you because you have never seen a person who died
a violent death.

> And unless you have seen the photo
> you are in no position to comment on them. Next, please.

If someone so incompetent that he can not even give the correct title for the
book describes what he saw there, it is grounds for suspicion. Especially when that
person has a record of distortion and deliberate misrepresentation. You do. This is even
more so when we consider your bragging about your deliberate lying:

In article <19990112213243...@ng31.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote: "I post deliberate misinformation . . ."

"hello? antone out there 12-14 e-mail me. i am thirteen and . .
.well if you e-mail me at jbel...@sprynet.com you can find out more about me i
am a female."

--YFE

The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/
The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/
The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/
The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/

yale_f._edeiken

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Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

> deb...@aol.com (Debunks) writes:
> >Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History

> >From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

> >Date: 2/22/99 1:16 PM EST
> >Message-id:
<mvanalstnot-22...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>

> >In article <19990222004212...@ng-ca1.aol.com>,
deb...@aol.com
> >(Debunks) wrote:

> >> Auschwitz: A Photographic History

> >> Having just browsed through this recently published book....

> >Amazon does not list this book.
> >Barnes & Nobles does not list this book.
> >Borders does not list list book.

> >Hmmm. Maybe Jew-hating Joe actually meant:

> >AUSCHWITZ: A HISTORY IN PHOTOGRAPHS.
> >Swiebocka, Teresa.

> This could very well be the book. I did not write down the title or the
> author.

Thanks for further proof od you incompetence.

> >.Which, of course, is _not_ a "recently published book."

> 93 is recent enough for me.

It is misleading. Considering your admission of deliberate misinformation
probably deliberate.

> SNIP the propaganda. When are you going to discuss the photos?

What photos. All we have is your description of them. As you could not
even get the title of the book right and the manner in which you misrepresent
everything, they could be pictures of the 1943 World Series.

> >Soure: Swiebocka, _Auschwitz: a history in photographs_, pp. 34-42.

> >[Jew-hating Joe's bullshit snipped]

> Just did that to you too.

Why is this night different from any other.

> Now, when are you going to discuss those photos
> which do not prove a word of what you claimed happened in Auschwitz?

He did you lying fuck but, as you noted, you deliberately deleted them.

yale_f._edeiken

unread,

Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

> deb...@aol.com (Debunks) writes:
> >Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
> >From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

> >Date: 2/26/99 3:25 PM EST
> >Message-id: <mvanalstnot-26...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>

> DEBUNKS first:

> >> SNIP the propaganda. When are you going to discuss the photos?

> >I did. I quoted the book, but Jew-hating Joe could handle it so he snipped

> >it right out. Typical.

> What is typical is that you have avoided discussing the actual photos I

> referred to in my initial post. I am not concerned with hearing you parrot
> what is written in the book, but apparently you own it, or have borrowed it, so

> deal with the actual pictures I have referred to. Can you do that? And I want
> YOUR opinion on those photos, not reposting the propaganda which tried to pass
> for proof.

Jew-hating Joe, whose idea of "discussion" is to snip the contrary evidence
and tell lies cannot deal with reality.

Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/26/99

to

Hemipower wrote:
>
> "Nikos" writes:

> >I'm Gay
> >(You're beautiful) ;)
> > (Snip...)

> <Hemi with nervous laughter>ha,ha,ha,ah
> I think I get what you mean. : /

ROTFLMAO!!! <Snort!...> *Giggle...*

> >Hemipower wrote:
> >>Top 10 rejection lines given by Men
> >>(and what they actually mean...)
(Snip...)
> Hemipower
> DTSS #1
> Stroker ACE.

AND!
PITA #1 <--- Wear your tag with pride Hemi... *G*

You are the first of many favorite PITA's...

Ceacaa

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

Date: Thu, Feb 25, 1999 7:59
Message-id: <mvanalstnot-25...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>

In article <19990223191428...@ng109.aol.com>,
deppi...@aol.comx.y.z... (DeppityBob) wrote:

[snip]

> > [Ceacaa comments]
> >The photograph is claimed by Believers to have been taken
> >from a north facing door of Krema V. This appears to be
> >impossible since the doorwayss of Krema V all had stoops.
> >Believers like VanPelt get "around" the problem by "triming"
> >the photograph so the lack of stoop is not evident
>
> So scan and post the original.

The "untrimmed" photographs can by found in _Technique_ (p.422) and they
do indeed, contrary to Mr. Allen's deceitful claim, clearly shows that the
photo was taken from inside Krema V:

Having the origional photographs makes it possible to identify and
precisely locate the scenes and positions of the photographer. Photos 15
and 16 were taken from the inside of a building, throught an open door.
The only Birkenau Krematorium possessing the three elements to be found on
the two photos, a door giving onto a barbed wire fence with the birch wood
in the background, was Krematorium V. IN the western section there was the
door of the western gas chamber meeting these conditions and two doors in
the north side, that of the northern gas chamber and the double doors of
th furnace room. A beam, the end of whioch is visible on the photos,
supported the porch roofs over these doors (not shown on drawing 2036, but
visible on photo PMO neg. no. 20995/509). The porch roof outside the
furnace room was about a metre higher than the door and was not visible
from the interior, but those of the gas chambers, where the roof of the
building was lower, were only just above the doors and could be seen from
the interior. The line of the crowns of the trees in the Birch Wood
diminsh from left to right, while it would have been horizontal had the
picture been taken from the west end of the building. This clue together
with the orientation of the shadows indicates the picture was were taken
looking northwest, the photographer being in the northern gas chamber of
Krematorium V [see sketch map]. The wind, normally from the north, was
blowing from the west, or more likely, northwest.

Pressac, _Technique_, p.424.

Mark

--

"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and
evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between
political parties--but right through every human heart--and all
human hearts." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"

[Ceacaa comments]
Mark, this is like your claim that the manhole near
Krema II is really an existing "zyclon vent" in the
roof of Leichenkeller 1 Krema II.
Having been to both Krema II and Krema V, I
can quickly tell that you are being a typical Believer.
It is not just an untrimed photo PMO neg. no. 20995/509
that is needed.

The education of a vanalstine continued

Say Mark, do you know that the foundation and
floor of the "gas chambers" of Krema V still exits?
[ ] yes [ ] no

Does the existing foundation
of the northern doorway of Krema V still exist?
[ ] yes [ ] no

So all we have to do is to compare the doorway
in untrimed photo PMO neg. no. 20995/509 with the
existing doorway.
[ ] yes [ ] no

Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

In article <19990226194747...@ng123.aol.com>, cea...@aol.com
(Ceacaa) wrote:

[snip]

> [Ceacaa comments]
> Mark, this is like your claim that the manhole near
> Krema II is really an existing "zyclon vent" in the
> roof of Leichenkeller 1 Krema II.

How odd it is that Mr. Allen appears to think that Nazis put a "manhole"
_in_ the roof of Krema II's L.Keller 1. After all, my claim is about the
Zyklon B vent shown in Document 46 and who's caption reads:

"Concrete cover with metal handle, weighing about 20 kg, origionally made
for the manhole of documents 44 and 45, now next to the remains of an
opening on the roof of Leichenkeller 1 (the gas chamber) of Krematorium
II, through which Zyklon-B was poured"

Cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.228,229.

From the deposition of Henryk Tauber, Annex 18 to Volume XI of the Ho"ss Trial:

...Through the window of the <<boiler room>>, I observed how the
<<Cyklon>> [Zyklon-B] was poured intot he gas chamber. Each transport was
followed by a vehicle with Red Cross markings which entered the yard of
the crematorium, carrying the camp doctor, Mengele, accompanied by
Rottenfu"hrer [corporal] Scheimetz. They took the cans of <<Cyklon>> from
the car and put them beside the small chimneys used to intriduce the
<<Cuklon>> into the gas chamber. There Scheimetz opened them with a
special cold chisel [with a ring of teeth at its head] and a hammer, then
poured the contents into the gas chamber. Then he closed the orifice with
a concrete [or wooden] cover. As there were four similar chimneys,
Scheimetz poured into each the contents contents of one of the smallest
cans of <<Cyklon>>, which had yellow labels pasted right around them.
Before opening the cans Scheimetz put on a gas mask which he wore while
opening the cans and pourin the product....

Source: Pressac, _Technique_, p.494.

According to Ho"ss:

The door would be screwed shut and the waiting disinfectin squads would
immedialtely pour the gas [crystals] intot he vents in the ceiling of the
gas chamber down an air shaft which went to the floor. This ensured the
rapid distribution of the gas. The process could be observed through a
peephole in the door. Those standing next to the air shaft were killed
immediately. I can state that about one-third died immediately. The
remainder staggered about and began to scream and struggle for air. The
screaming, however, soon changed to gasping and in a few moments everyone
lay still....

Source: Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.44.

unread,

Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

> deb...@aol.com (Debunks) writes:
> >Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History

> >From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )
> >Date: 2/26/99 3:59 PM EST
> >Message-id: <mvanalstnot-26...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>

> >Which are? Page and photo numbers?

> stop being silly. If I did not write down the title why should I have written
> anything else. I have described the photos quite accurately. You have the
> book. Open it up.

Jew-hating Joe once more reveals that he is to research what Charles Manson
was to race relations.

Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

In article <19990227023830...@ng-ca1.aol.com>, deb...@aol.com
(Debunks) wrote:

> >Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
> >From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )
> >Date: 2/26/99 3:59 PM EST
> >Message-id: <mvanalstnot-26...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
>
> >Which are? Page and photo numbers?
> >
>
> stop being silly.

Silly Jew-hating Joe. Pot. Kettle. Black.

> If I did not write down the title why should I have written
> anything else.

But Jew hating Joe _did_ write down the title. It's just that the title he
wrote down was wrong.

> I have described the photos quite accurately.

If Jew-hating Joe couldn't even get title correct, why should anybody
believe he has gotten anything else correct?

> You have the book.

Yup.

> ...Open it up.

I did. I'm waiting for Jew-hating Joe to cite the page and photo numbers.
Alas, it appears that Jew-hating Joe, true to form, being a chickeshit
little Nazi who's too scared to give the cites because he knows I'll make
him look like the village idiot he is, runs away again. Pity.

For those interested in proof of Jew-hating Joe Bellinger's irrelevant
Nazi apologia, Holocaust denial, intellectual dishonesty, anti-Semitism,
and outright lies, please peruse DejaNews and visit the Nizkor Project at:

Mark Van Alstine

unread,

Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Mark Van Alstine

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Debunks

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

>Subject: Re: Auschwitz: A Photographic History
>From: mvana...@home.com (Mark Van Alstine )

>Date: 2/27/99 1:25 PM EST
>Message-id: <mvanalstnot-27...@c678496-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
>

>
>I did. I'm waiting for Jew-hating Joe to cite the page and photo numbers.
>Alas, it appears that Jew-hating Joe, true to form, being a chickeshit
>little Nazi who's too scared to give the cites because he knows I'll make
>him look like the village idiot he is, runs away again. Pity.

It must be very difficult for you to cease behaving like an imbecile. If I
told you once I do not have the book then why do you persist in asking for
citations? Refer to my post. You have the book. You can find every photo I
described with ease. And I did not write down the title of the book, as I also
noted in my later post.

Debunks

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Debunks

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Debunks

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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Debunks

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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DeppityBob

unread,

Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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DeppityBob

unread,

Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

Ml ponm

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DeppityBob

unread,

Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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DeppityBob

unread,

Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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DeppityBob

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Feb 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/27/99

to

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