Some Holocaust Facts
tom moran
[repost]
Anywhere from 600,000 to 4 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz.
The total number of people to have been exterminated by the Nazis
during the WWII period is 10 million, 11 million or 12 million.
Although none have been found and identified, there are at least
15 mass grave sites where at least 10 thousand people and up to 40,000
and on to 2,000,000 were buried and/or cremated in each one.
Regardless of whether or not the 46 identified incinerator
chambers at Auschwitz have barely the volume of a refrigerator, 200
people a day could be cremated in each one.
Even though it takes modern day cremation facilities to cremate
one (1) body 1 1/2 to 2 hours, cremation ovens at Majdanek could
reduce four (4) bodies to charred bbone in ten minutes.
Sometimes the whole process was kept in secret, sometimes it
wasn't.
There were 700,000, 800,000 or 900,000 Jews in Hungary before the
war. Somewhere between 200,000 and 400,000 were exterminated at
Auschwitz.
Even though it was once said there were 700,000 Jews in France
before the war and the figure is now put at 70,000, the number of Jews
said to have been in Hungary and also found on the same list as the
700,000 French, the figure for the Hungarian Jews still stands.
Any eye witness accounts and testimony for the Holocaust story
supercede any against it.
Any discrepancies or contradictions found in eyewitness
testimonies should not be looked on with suspicion.
Questioning the Holocaust story is an act of hate and those do
are "neo-Nazis" and "anti-Semitic".
Even though many revisions to the Holocaust story have taken
place, with many of the old accounts being generally recognized as
lies, any surviving accounts are to be accepted unconditionally.
Joel Rosenberg
t...@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> [repost]
> Anywhere from 600,000 to 4 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz.
Nobody has ever suggested that 4 million Jews were murdered at
Auschwitz, and the 4 million figure was Communist Polish pravda in
which three million fictitious Poles were added to the total of about
a million Jews murdered at Auschwitz.
This if, of course, the familiar denier "Auschwitz Gambit" and is one
of the many, many reasons that deniers are taken seriously by no real
historians.
--
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Joel Rosenberg | For news about upcoming books, | My opinions are mine.
jo...@winternet.com | finger jo...@winternet.com | Whose are yours?
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Chris Winkler
In article <joelr.8...@winternet.com>, jo...@winternet.com (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:
In article 3 of 9 above titled "Jewish Math: 6 million minus 2.5 million
they mention Auschwitz having a plaque with 4 million on it, removed
before the pope came.
Hows this for facts;
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Inside the Auschwitz Gas Chambers
(Fred Leuchter)
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Introduction
1988 was a very informative and likewise disturbing year. I was appalled to
learn that much of what I was taught in school about twentieth-century
history and World War II was a myth, if not a lie. I was first amazed; then
annoyed; then aware: the myth of the Holocaust was dead.
Like all American children born during and after World War II, I was taught
about the genocide perpetrated by the Nazis on the Jews. By the time I had
reached college, I had no reason to disbelieve any of my education, except
that I had some problems swallowing the numbers of decen-dents, said to
total better than six million persons. But there it stopped. I believed in
the Nazi genocide. I had no reason to disbelieve.
Some twenty-four years later, a very believing engineer sat at his desk
working one snowy January afternoon in 1988, when the telephone rang. This
very believing engineer was about to receive a very shocking history lesson,
one which would cause him to question that fifty-year-old Holocaust lie and
the application of that lie to generations of children. "Hello, this is
Robert Faurisson" -- and that very believing engineer would believe no more.
Background
I have for the past nine years worked with most, if not all of the states in
the United States having capital punishment. I design and manufacture
execution equipment of all types, including electrocution systems, lethal
injection equipment, gallows and gas-chamber hardware.
I have consulted for, or supplied equipment to, most of the applicable
states and the federal government.
Because of my association with the states in this capacity, I was
recommended to the Zündel defense as a consultant on gas chambers by Warden
Bill Armontrout of the Missouri State Penitentiary.
After answering my telephone on that cold January afternoon, I met with Dr.
Robert Faurisson twice in Boston and, as a result of these meetings, I was
summoned to Toronto to meet with Ernst Zündel, attorney Douglas Christie and
the rest of Zündel's very able staff.
Dr. Robert Faurisson had postulated thirteen years ago that a gas-chamber
specialist should be sought who could evaluate the alleged gas chambers in
Poland and report on their efficacy for execution purposes.
Valentine's Day weekend found myself and Carolyn, my wife of two weeks, in
Toronto. Two days of lengthy meetings followed, during which I was shown
photos of the alleged German gas chambers in Poland, German documents and
Allied aerial photographs. My examination of this material led me to
question whether these alleged gas chambers were, in fact, execution
facilities. I was asked if I would go to Poland and undertake a physical
inspection and forensic analysis resulting in a written evaluation of these
alleged execution gas chambers, some at places I had never even heard of.
After due consideration, I agreed and made plans to leave for Poland,
awaiting a time of minimal snow covering. I also stated that although the
photos and documents seemed to support the view that these places were,
indeed, not execution facilities, I would reserve final judgement until
after my examination and, if I determined that these facilities were, in
fact, or could have been, execution gas chambers, I would state this in my
report. The final report was to be utilized as evidence in Ernst Zündel's
defense in his pending criminal trial at Toronto, and I had to be prepared
to testify under oath.
Preparations for the trip required me to take sample bags, documentation
journals and tools. Because we were in a Communist country I would have to
be careful with the tools. Very few tourists carry hammers, chisels, star
drills and tape measures while travelling. I hid them in the lining of my
valise and hoped for the best. Further, I had maps of Poland, Czechoslovakia
and Austria, in the event that we might have to make a hasty and unscheduled
exit. And finally, the gifts with which we bribed the museum people to
supply us with copies of documents from the Museum Archives.
Our staff
I was fortunate to have a competent and dependable party of professionals:
my wife Carolyn, my general assistant; Mr. Howard Miller, draftsman; Mr.
Juergen Neumann, cinematographer; Mr. Tijudar Rudolf, interpreter. All knew
that, if caught, the Polish government would take a dim view of our
activities and purpose, let alone my removal of forensic samples from
national shrines and monuments.
And the two ex officio members of our party, Mr. Ernst Zündel and Dr. Robert
Faurisson, who for obvious reasons could not accompany us in person, but who
nevertheless were with us every step of the way in spirit.
The trip
On February 25, 1988, we left for Poland. Neumann and Rudolf, the Canadian
contingent, joined me and the remainder of our team in Frankfurt.
We arrived at Cracow in the late afternoon and spent our first night at the
Hotel Orbis. We consumed the first of our three decent meals while in
Poland. The following day we drove to Auschwitz. We arrived at the Auschwitz
Hotel and were greeted by the smell of sulphur napthal disinfectant, a smell
I had not encountered for many years. The hotel is apparently the old
officers' quarters for the camp. We ate lunch at the Hotel dining room, a
cafeteria style facility. This was our first unidentifiable meal, starch
soup and sundries.
We made a reconnaissance tour of the camp, lasting into the dim light of the
Polish afternoon and several snow squalls, a common occurrence. We ate no
supper, in that we found no place to eat in Auschwitz after sundown our
first evening.
Auschwitz and Birkenau
The following day we began our work in the alleged gas chamber at the
Auschwitz facility. Unfortunately, we were unable to accomplish much due to
constant interruptions by both official and unofficial Sunday tours. Carolyn
stood guard at one entrance and Tijudar at the other, advising myself,
Jurgen and Howard of their arrival. It was too dangerous to take forensic
samples and tape, so we left for Birkenau about noon.
At Birkenau we began a four-hour walk into the damp Polish cold and through
snow squalls so dense we could not see each other at a distance of a few
feet. Unfortunately, we did not expect to spend that much time walking
through the camp and, since vehicles are not permitted within the camp, we
left Carolyn behind in the car. Since we forgot to leave her the keys, she
nearly froze in the cold Polish afternoon. We visited the barracks,
Krematorien II, III, IV and V, the sauna and the alleged burning pits. We
took samples, documented our activities on video tape and in still photos,
and made scale drawings of these facilities, carefully documenting the
removal locations of all the forensic samples. We had to break into the
sauna building, since it was locked.
At Krema II, I descended into the depths of the alleged gas chamber, a wet,
dank subter-ranean place not visited by man in almost fifty years, since the
building had been reduced to rubble, probably by a German military
demolition team. Fortunately, there were fewer guards and less pedestrian
traffic, making working conditions considerably better than they had been
earlier, at Auschwitz.
Having been instructed by our empty stomachs of the evening before, we found
and ate at the restaurant at the bus station, the only legitimate restaurant
in Auschwitz. We returned to the Auschwitz Hotel for the night.
The following day, Monday, we again began our work at Auschwitz, the Sunday
tours having subsided. We were able to get our samples, tapes and
documentation. We had, by this time, obtained blueprints of the alleged
gas-chamber facility and were able to follow the structural changes back to
the dates in question. We also verified the existence of the floor drain for
the periods of alleged gas chamber usage. Upon completion at Auschwitz, we
drove again to Birkenau to take our control sample at delousing facility 1.
Unfortunately, the building was locked and again we had to break and enter
in order to access the delousing chamber. Again we ate at the bus station,
and retired early to the Auschwitz Hotel.
Tuesday morning, while awaiting Tijudar's unsuccessful attempt to obtain a
can of Zyklon B, Jurgen and I made video tapes of locations within the camp.
We moved from the Auschwitz Hotel to a hostel nearby, obtaining newly
vacated rooms. We ate at the bus station and retired early.
On Wednesday morning we ate a very enjoyable breakfast of ham, cheese and
bread (our second decent meal in Poland) and began our trip to Lublin to see
Majdanek. After one final look in at Auschwitz, we set off by car for
Majdanek.
Lublin (Majdanek)
Several hours later, we arrived at Majdanek, and visited the museum, the
reconstructed alleged gas chamber and crematory. We finally arrived at
disinfection 1 and 2 and examined the facilities. It was extremely difficult
to work, in that a guard made rounds every ten or fifteen minutes. The
alleged gas chambers were blocked by gates and not accessible for a detailed
inspection by the general public. It was necessary for me to trespass beyond
these gates in forbidden areas. Again Carolyn and Tijudar stood watch while
I made measurements and did a detailed examination in these areas. Once we
were caught short: I was forced to hurdle the gate, and was still in the air
and in mid-jump when the guard entered. Fortunately, he was more interested
in Jurgen and his camera to see me before I touched ground.
Return
The camp closed in early afternoon and the guard rather nastily told us to
leave. By three o'clock we were en route to Warsaw, a trip which would take
five hours through rain and snow. Our hotel reservation had been fouled up
but fortunately, with the help of an embassy attache, we were able to secure
rooms at another hotel.
We had our third edible meal in Poland that evening and went to bed in
preparation for our trip home on Thursday. The following morning we had
breakfast and proceeded to the airport for our return trip.
We boarded the Polish airlines plane after clearing customs -- my suitcase
containing twenty pounds of the forbidden samples, fortunately none of which
were found. I did not breathe easy until we cleared the passport checkpoint
at Frankfurt. Our team split at Frankfurt, for the return trips to the
United States and Canada, respectively. After our return [on March 3], I
delivered the forensic samples to the test laboratory in Massachusetts. Upon
receipt of the test results, I prepared my report, combining my knowledge of
gas execution facilities and procedures with the research I had completed at
crematories and with retort manu-facturers in the United States. With the
results of my research I believe you are all familiar.
Upon completion of my report I testified at Toronto -- but that is another
story, for another time.
The findings
1. Gas chambers
The results published in the Leuchter Report are the important thing.
Categorically, none of the facilities examined at Auschwitz, Birkenau
or Lublin could have supported, or in fact did support, multiple
executions utilizing hydrogen cyanide, carbon monoxide or any other
allegedly or factually lethal gas. Based upon very generous maximum
usage rates for all the alleged gas chambers, totalling 1,693 persons
per week, and assuming these facilities could support gas executions,
it would have required sixty-eight (68) years to execute the alleged
number of six millions of persons. This must mean the Third Reich was
in existence for some seventy-five (75) years. Promoting these
facilities as being capable of effecting mass, multiple or even
singular executions is both ludicrous and insulting to every individual
on this planet. Further, those who do promote this mistruth are
negligent and irresponsible for not investigating these facilities
earlier and ascertaining the truth before indoctrinating the world with
what may have become the greatest propaganda ploy in history.
2. Crematories
Of equal importance are Exterminationist errors relating to the
crematories. If these crematories, operated at a theoretical rate of
maximum output per day, without any down time and at a constant pace
(an impossible situation), and we accept the figure of at least six
millions executed, the Third Reich lasted for at least forty-two (42)
years, since it would take thirty-five (35) years at an impossible
minimum to cremate these six millions of souls.
No one by any stretch of the imagination would allege (or even believe)
that the Third Reich ever lasted for seventy-five (75) or even
forty-two (42) years, yet they would have us believe that six millions
of souls were executed with equipment which could not possibly have
functioned, in less than one-seventh of the absolute minimum time it
could possibly have taken.
3. Forensics
Forensic samples were taken from the visited sites. A control sample
was removed from delous-ing facility 1 at Birkenau. It was postulated
that because of the high iron content of the building materials at
these camps the presence of hydrogen cyanide gas would result in a
ferric-ferro-cyanide compound being formed, as evidenced by the
Prus-sian blue staining on the walls in the delousing facilities.
A detailed analysis of the thirty-two samples taken at the
Auschwitz-Birkenau complexes showed 1,050 mg/kg of cyanide and 6,170
mg/kg of iron. Higher iron results were found at all of the alleged gas
chambers but no significant cyanide traces. This would be impossible if
these sites were exposed to hydrogen cyanide gas, because the alleged
gas chambers supposedly were exposed to much greater quantities of gas
than the delousing facility. Thus, chemical analysis supports the fact
that these facilities were never utilized as gas execution facilities.
4. Construction
Construction of these facilities shows that they were never used as gas
chambers. None of these facilities were sealed or gasketed. No
provision was ever made to prevent condensation of gas on the walls,
floor or ceiling. No provision ever existed to exhaust the air-gas
mixture from these buildings. No provision ever existed to introduce or
distribute the gas throughout the chamber. No explosion-proof lighting
existed and no attempt was ever made to prevent gas from entering the
crematories, even though the gas is highly explosive. No attempt was
made to protect operating personnel from exposure to the gas or to
protect other non-participating persons from exposure. Specifically, at
Auschwitz, a floor drain in the alleged gas chamber was connected
directly to the camp's storm drain system. At Majdanek a depressed
walkway around the alleged gas chambers would have collected gas
seepage and resulted in a death trap for camp personnel. No exhaust
stacks ever existed. Hydrogen cyanide gas is an extremely dangerous and
lethal gas and nowhere were there any provisions to effect any amount
of safe handling. The chambers were too small to accommodate more than
a small fraction of the alleged numbers. Plain and simple, these
facilities could not have operated as execution gas chambers.
5. Conclusion
After a thorough examination of the alleged execution facilities in
Poland and their associated crematories, the only conclusion that can
be arrived at by a rational, responsible person is the absurdity of the
notion that any of these facilities were ever capable of, or were
utilized as, execution gas chambers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
About the Author
Fred A. Leuchter, Jr., is America's leading specialist on the design and
fabrication of homicidal gas chambers and other equipment used in execution
of convicted criminals. His expertise has been acknowledged by state
governments and in periodicals such as The Atlantic (Feb. 1990), The New
York Times (Oct. 13, 1990) and The New York Times Book Review (Nov. 22,
1992), as well as on the "Phil Donahue Show" (where he appeared as a guest).
After receiving his Bachelor's degree from Boston University in 1964, he did
postgraduate work at the Harvard Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory.
Leuchter holds patents for numerous highly sophisticated technical devices,
including sextants, surveying instruments and optical encoding equipment.
In spite of intense pressure to repudiate his findings, Leuchter defiantly
stands by his 1988 investigation of the alleged extermination gas chambers.
As a result, powerful special interest groups have made him the target of a
vicious campaign of slander, and have succeeded in all but destroying his
career.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This paper was first presented at the IHR's Ninth Revisionist Conference,
(1989), and was published in the Summer 1989 issue of The Journal of
Historical Review.
A sumptuously illustrated edition of the sensational Leuchter Report, with a
hard-hitting foreword by British historian David Irving and an introduction
by French professor Robert Faurisson, is available from the IHR for $23.00,
postpaid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ernst Zündel
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M5A 2L1
Telephone: 416-922-9850
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Or this letter from the zundelsite;
Subject: ZGram - December 14, 1996 - "The teeth of Mrs. Aristotle"
Copyright 1996 (c) - Ingrid A. Rimland
December 14, 1996
Good Morning from the Zundelsite:
We are still having unbelievable computer/Network problems and no idea what
it is. Hang in there - and consider this another "emergency" ZGram just so
you know I do not want to miss a day. Here goes:
One of my fervent wishes is that the engineering community world-wide is
going to kneel into the murky matter of the Holocaust and decide once and
for all and as loudly as they can that it is OVER. Science cannot be
suspended, not even for the "Nazis."
Meanwhile, off and on, I get a letter from a lone wolf somewhere who has
decided to get out his scratch pad and do a few calculations. I have no
way of knowing if he is close or not with what he wrote below, but what he
has to say is food for thought for other engineers.
(He is still working off old data - 4 million dead at Auschwitz versus the
"official" 1.1 (?) million, but even so . . . - was it not only yesterday
when we believed such nonsense?)
Here is what he shipped to me:
"I am a mechanical engineer, and have principally worked in the materials
handling field. Having mega doses of "Holocaust" force-fed to me via my
visual and audio senses, I have decided to review the available data from a
standpoint of having to engineer such a project.
Let us examine the claim that 4 million Jews perished at Auschwitz.
At the close of the war (1945), there were 15 (5 sets of 3 each) crematoria
found at Auschwitz by the Allies. I checked a local undertaker and also a
crematoria and they informed me that it takes 4-6 hours to cremate a human
body. Given an average of 5 hours each, a maximum of 75 bodies could be
disposed of in a given day.
Remarkably, 4,000,000/75 equals 53,333 days or about 146 years.
This means that the Germans could not have finished the job until the year
2091, and would need another 96 years (as of 1995).
Proper engineering of this project requires a capacity of 1.3 million/yr.
or about 3,560/day. As earlier stated before, the crematoria have a
capacity of about 75/day. so that approximately 700+ crematoria would be
required. Of course, nothing of the kind was found.
Now, 3,560/day meant approximately 445,000 lbs of carcasses (@ 125 lbs.)
would have to be efficiently managed. Effective management of this type of
tonnage would require automated conveying equipment similar to a trolley
conveyor found in meat packing establishments. We are talking about 445,000
lbs (220 tons) a day. There is no way that this much material could be
handled without automated conveying equipment. Even a meat packing plant
1/10th the capacity would have to shut down without it's conveyors. Of
course, no such conveyors were in evidence.
It takes the BTU equivalent of 200 lbs. (1/10th ton) of coal to cremate a
human body. Therefore, approximately 800 million pounds or 400,000 tons of
coal would be required. It would strain credulity to believe that Hitler
would commit this amount of resource energy to the cremation of Jews during
wartime especially when they were capable of converting coal to various
other fuels.
Approximately 1/10th the body weight is converted to ash so that there
should be 25,000 tons of ash remaining. Where is it?
If the bodies were not cremated, there should be an incredible 500 million
pounds or 250,000 tons of carcasses about. Where are they?
Consider the following: A cubic foot of water weighs 62.5 lbs. A human of
125 lbs. would displace about 2 cu. ft., actually a bit more since they
float. The claim of 4,000,000 dead means that about 8,000,000 cu. ft. of
humans were disposed of. For the sake of argument, lets pile them in the
shape of a pyramid. Given the volume of a pyramid as the base times the
height divided by 3, a pyramid of 288 x 288 x 289 (ft.) would accommodate
the Jewish victims of Auschwitz.
Similar sized pyramids can be found in Egypt. The Great Pyramids of Gizeh
are Menkaure, Khafre, and the Great Cheops. The pile of Jews would be in
size, in between Menkaure and Khafre. Actually, the pyramid would be
greater since this represents perfectly compressed corpses. I suspect that
the actual size would approach the size of Khafre due to air spaces etc.
The Pyramids are clearly visible from outer space. Can you believe that
this pile of rotten corpses (similar in size to the Great Pyramids of
Gizeh) could be somehow be overlooked?
In 1991, the Russians released captured German records of operations at
Auschwitz. The records show a death toll of 74,000 of a wide myriad of
ethnic backgrounds. As we saw above, the crematoria had a capacity of 15 a
day. Given a maximum of 1,000 days, Auschwitz could have handled 75,000
which is in keeping with expected deaths.
Nothing above is meant to diminish the terror and tragedy of what took
place at Auschwitz, it is merely an examination from an engineering
standpoint.
The claim of 4 million at Auschwitz is not even a good lie. It is not even
a bad lie. In order for it to be a lie at all, it must have some
believability. This claim has none.
Some time ago, I read of the Anne Frank Diary hoax and how her Father,
Otto, had plagiarized another literary work and palmed it off as his
daughter's. At that time I was disturbed that a human could descend to such
a vile endeavor as to make a buck off his dead daughter.
Today, I can only begin to tell you of the utter revulsion I experienced
when I realized the mathematical and physical impossibility of the
"Holocaust".
The hatred in the hearts of the perpetrators of this myth many times
exceeds their ill gotten gains."
(Name withheld)
Thought for the Day:
"Aristotle could have avoided the mistake of thinking that women have fewer
teeth than men by the simple device of asking Mrs. Aristotle to open her
mouth."
Bertrand Russell
________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/
It was a terrible time in our history, no doubt. But to overinflate the
numbers for monetary gain from Germany and the US by Israel is a crying
shame. Just wish I could do something about it. Seems our elected
representatives are all bought and paid for and wouldn't even think of
cutting a dime out of the bundel that goes out in foreign aid. In the old
days, they would have hung them, or tar & feather them...
Chris Winkler
Up front
On 18 Dec 96 16:11:53 GMT, jo...@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:
>t...@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>
>> [repost]
>
>> Anywhere from 600,000 to 4 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz.
>
>Nobody has ever suggested that 4 million Jews were murdered at
>Auschwitz, and the 4 million figure was Communist Polish pravda in
>which three million fictitious Poles were added to the total of about
>a million Jews murdered at Auschwitz.
>
>This if, of course, the familiar denier "Auschwitz Gambit" and is one
>of the many, many reasons that deniers are taken seriously by no real
>historians.
And I suppose that no "historian" ever claimed the total number
added up to 12 million either? At least the 12 million is now down to
9 million from this and down another two million from Treblinka,
right?
But just our of curiosity, how did Rabbi "The Amazing" Weissmandel
know the number would be 6 million a year before the end of the war?
=====
If history has taught us anything it is that history will be revised.
---
Revisionists are sneaky bastards, always relying on facts and figures.
Gord McFee
In message <32c00cfe...@199.0.216.204> - t...@pacificnet.net (tom
moran)Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:25:52 GMT writes:
:>
:>
:> [repost]
How's the wife and kids, zeyde?
--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time
tom moran
>In message <32c00cfe...@199.0.216.204> - t...@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran)Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:25:52 GMT writes:
>:>
>:>
>:> [repost]
>
>How's the wife and kids, zeyde?
>Gord McFee
Why do you ask, Mr."McFee"?
Daniel Keren
oct...@septa.gon (Up front) writes:
# But just our of curiosity, how did Rabbi "The Amazing"
# Weissmandel know the number would be 6 million a year before
# the end of the war?
Assuming he did say that (and I'm not willing to believe anything
Matt posts without verifying it, since he lied so many times in the
past), it is not that surprising. (If) he made this estimate, it was
in the summer of 1944, right? The large majority of the victims were
already dead by then, as this was after the Einsatzgruppen massacres,
after all the victims of Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor and Chelmno were
already murdered, after a great many people were already murdered in
Auschwitz and in the ghettos. I guess the real figure was more than 5
million. If Weissmandel indeed gave the figure of 6 million in the
summer of 1944, his estimate was rather accurate.
-Danny Keren.
Gord McFee
In message <32c1a8ad...@199.0.216.204> - t...@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
writes:
:>
:>>In message <32c00cfe...@199.0.216.204> - t...@pacificnet.net (tom
How are they zeyde?
Up front
On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 07:10:52 GMT, dke...@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:
>oct...@septa.gon (Up front) writes:
>
># But just our of curiosity, how did Rabbi "The Amazing"
># Weissmandel know the number would be 6 million a year before
># the end of the war?
>
>Assuming he did say that (and I'm not willing to believe anything
>Matt posts without verifying it, since he lied so many times in the
>past), it is not that surprising. (If) he made this estimate,
He did.
it was
>in the summer of 1944, right?
Spring.
The large majority of the victims were
>already dead by then, as this was after the Einsatzgruppen massacres,
>after all the victims of Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor and Chelmno were
>already murdered, after a great many people were already murdered in
>Auschwitz and in the ghettos. I guess the real figure was more than 5
>million. If Weissmandel indeed gave the figure of 6 million in the
>summer of 1944, his estimate was rather accurate.
But there were no records he could possibly have had access to upon
which to base any estimates. AS WE ALL KNOW, the only way to
determine this number was to compare pre war census numbers to POST
WAR census numbers.
Clearly, you are making another jew attempt to salvage another jew
lie and are doing a very poor job of it.
Daniel Keren
oct...@septa.gon (Up front) writes:
# dke...@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## The large majority of the victims were already dead by
## then, as this was after the Einsatzgruppen massacres,
## after all the victims of Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor and
## Chelmno were already murdered, after a great many people
## were already murdered in Auschwitz and in the ghettos. I
## guess the real figure was more than 5 million. If
## Weissmandel indeed gave the figure of 6 million in the
## summer of 1944, his estimate was rather accurate.
# But there were no records he could possibly have had access
# to upon which to base any estimates.
An intelligent person could have made a reasonably accurate
estimate, due to a very simple reason. The Nazis have murdered
the very large majority of the Jews in most of the areas
they occupied. This was no big secret in mid-1944. Knowing
the numbers of Jews who lived there when the Nazis took over,
enabled one to make a reasonably accurate estimate of the number
of Jews they murdered.
# Clearly, you are making another jew attempt to salvage another
# jew lie and are doing a very poor job of it.
Clearly, you're a rather silly little Nazi who could not
figure out by himself how Weissmandel arrived at his estimate.
It seems all the semi-intelligent Nazis gave up, and we're
left only with the really dumb ones.
-Danny Keren.
Tickle Me Grabner
On Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:59:13 GMT, dke...@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:
>oct...@septa.gon (Up front) writes:
># dke...@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>## The large majority of the victims were already dead by
>## then, as this was after the Einsatzgruppen massacres,
>## after all the victims of Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor and
>## Chelmno were already murdered, after a great many people
>## were already murdered in Auschwitz and in the ghettos. I
>## guess the real figure was more than 5 million. If
>## Weissmandel indeed gave the figure of 6 million in the
>## summer of 1944, his estimate was rather accurate.
>
># But there were no records he could possibly have had access
># to upon which to base any estimates.
>
>An intelligent person could have made a reasonably accurate
>estimate, due to a very simple reason. The Nazis have murdered
>the very large majority of the Jews in most of the areas
>they occupied. This was no big secret in mid-1944. Knowing
>the numbers of Jews who lived there when the Nazis took over,
>enabled one to make a reasonably accurate estimate of the number
>of Jews they murdered.
Try it this way, pothead boozer, "an intelligent person" wouild
have laughed at the four million at Auschwitz but there was not one
intelligent writer about Auschwitz for 45 years. Those idiots, as you
indirectly refer to them, needed all kinds of "census" information
(that did not exist and they did not use) to find the magic number 45
years later.
The Rabbi sitting in a cave (want to bet on that?) did as good as
they did without ANY census records.
Lay off the booze and the grass and get back to me when you are
willing to be better than a lying, boozing kikesucker.
Chris Winkler
In article <E2s4u...@world.std.com>, dke...@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:
> oct...@septa.gon (Up front) writes:
> # dke...@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
> ## The large majority of the victims were already dead by
> ## then, as this was after the Einsatzgruppen massacres,
> ## after all the victims of Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor and
> ## Chelmno were already murdered, after a great many people
> ## were already murdered in Auschwitz and in the ghettos. I
> ## guess the real figure was more than 5 million. If
> ## Weissmandel indeed gave the figure of 6 million in the
> ## summer of 1944, his estimate was rather accurate.
>
> # But there were no records he could possibly have had access
> # to upon which to base any estimates.
>
> An intelligent person could have made a reasonably accurate
> estimate, due to a very simple reason. The Nazis have murdered
> the very large majority of the Jews in most of the areas
> they occupied. This was no big secret in mid-1944. Knowing
> the numbers of Jews who lived there when the Nazis took over,
> enabled one to make a reasonably accurate estimate of the number
> of Jews they murdered.
>
> # Clearly, you are making another jew attempt to salvage another
> # jew lie and are doing a very poor job of it.
>
> Clearly, you're a rather silly little Nazi who could not
> figure out by himself how Weissmandel arrived at his estimate.
>
> It seems all the semi-intelligent Nazis gave up, and we're
> left only with the really dumb ones.
>
>
> -Danny Keren.
Insteaad of calling us dumb, why don't you try to rebut anything i put in
my post 2 letters up? You can't and only can continue to spread lies and
call people names. Re-read my lettter & what I pasted in.
Chris
=====
If history has taught us anything it is that the truth will be revised.
---
Jews are sneaky bastards, always relying on over inflated facts and figures.
Richard Schultz
Prince Myshkin (mgi...@gte.net) wrote:
: Try it this way, pothead boozer, "an intelligent person" wouild
: have laughed at the four million at Auschwitz but there was not one
: intelligent writer about Auschwitz for 45 years. Those idiots, as you
: indirectly refer to them, needed all kinds of "census" information
: (that did not exist and they did not use) to find the magic number 45
: years later.
As has been pointed out innumerable times already, the figure of
approximately 1 million Jews killed at Auschwitz was already known within
15 years of the end of World War II (cf. the first edition of Hilberg,
for example). If you're going to post in base three, then you should
realize that integers greater than 2 can't appear in any number in
that base -- 15 base ten is the same as 120 base three. Hope this helps!
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"French bread makes very good skis"
Inveigh the kenneth
On 22 Dec 1996 07:31:02 GMT, sch...@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard
Schultz) wrote:
>Prince Myshkin (mgi...@gte.net) wrote:
It has been related that at the festival of Purim, Jews usually become
drunk. This occurs particularly at meetings of Orthodox Jews. During
these drunken orgies plays are stage in which the murder of Haman is
re-created. An effigy of “Haman” is put on the stage and is hanged
while the Jewish merry-makers curse and cast spells. They cry out:
“May Haman and the Gentiles be cursed. May Mordecai and all the Jews
be blessed.” (Talmud: Orach cajjim 690,16). Finally the Jews throw
stones at the effigy and stab it with knives. Today, many Jewish
people celebrate by smashing two stones together, inscribed with
Haman’s image.
In 1764 the Jews of Monastyr (Russia) clebrated Purim with a live
“Haman”. The Jewish inn-keeper Moscho from Michalkowetz had brought
the drunken farmer Adamko to the festival in his wagon. His clothes
were removed, he was dressed as “Haman” and received a savage beating
during all the “merriment”. He was also burnt on the back, and
arrived home totally drunk. Complaining later of severe pains, he
died the next day.
A Jewish man named Moscho was accused of poisoning him. The case was
brought to trial and Moscho was sentenced to death. (From trial
documents at Kammetz).
=====
If history has taught us anything it is that history will be revised.
---
Revisionists are sneaky bastards, always relying on facts and figures.
Joel Rosenberg
In article <32bdaf3f...@news.gte.net>
unterdrec...@mattgiwer.needs.better.meds.com) writes:
>It has been related that at the festival of Purim, Jews usually become
>drunk.
Well, I certainly do. Simhas Torah, as well. (I may be an agonistic, but I
know a good party when I see one.) And around our house, the cups of wine at
the seder are filled to the brim by default. So, yeah, I do get kinda tipsy
about three times a year.
Inveigh the kenneth
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:06:48, jo...@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg)
wrote:
So you get involved in ritual murder also? What a strange
admission. But not unexepected.
Michael P. Stein
In article <32be0a84....@news.gte.net>,
Matt Giwer (mgi...@gte.net) under the name
Inveigh the kenneth <unterdrec...@nizkook.org> wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:06:48, jo...@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <32bdaf3f...@news.gte.net>
>>unterdrec...@mattgiwer.needs.better.meds.com) writes:
>>
>>>It has been related that at the festival of Purim, Jews usually become
>>>drunk.
>>
>>Well, I certainly do. Simhas Torah, as well. (I may be an agonistic, but I
>>know a good party when I see one.) And around our house, the cups of wine at
>>the seder are filled to the brim by default. So, yeah, I do get kinda tipsy
>>about three times a year.
>
> So you get involved in ritual murder also? What a strange
>admission. But not unexepected.
I have already openly admitted that far too many Jews murder rituals
even when sober. It is only to be expected that intoxication would make
it worse.
But at the very least I trust that Mr. Rosenberg has the good sense
not to drive the information superhighway while drunk. Friends don't let
friends do that.
There has certainly been a lot of speculation as to whether Matt Giwer
has any friends. The lack would certainly go a long way towards
explaining his posting habits here.
--
Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
Mark Van Alstine
In article <christ-2112...@adnline385.adnc.com>, chr...@adnc.com
(Chris Winkler) wrote:
> Insteaad of calling us dumb, why don't you try to rebut anything i put in
> my post 2 letters up?
Been there, done that.
> You can't and only can continue to spread lies and
> call people names. Re-read my lettter & what I pasted in.
I did. Calling what you wrote "dumb" is a kindness.
Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts."
-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------