Chuck re Swiger
Chuck Ferree
Subject: Re: Witnesses say, "No Holocaust"
Sent: 1/8/97 9:46 PM
To: Cliff Swiger, csw...@westco.net
Chuck Ferree to Cliff Swiger
O.K. Cliff, you had your say, now I'll have mine.
Let's not get mixed up now, you are talking about storage of corpses,
amount of times for cremation, and so on. I don't know where you got
your information, but it doesn't really make too much difference. Most
of mine comes from Martin Gilbert's "The Holocaust" but also I have
other books by various authors which pretty much come to the same
conclusion.
I'll send more on Mauthausen. Cliff, I went into Mauthausen two days
after it's liberation.
A gas chamber had been used there for several years. Also I have met
with Simon Wiesenthal in his office in Vienna. He never said that
there were no Death Camps on German soil. At least in the context you
think. Auschwitz itself was on German annexed soil.
The gas chamber at Dachau was on German soil, it was used to gas
humans. Prove it wasn't. I know it was used. Nothing like millions,
but used never the less to gas humans. One human counts, and many more
were gassed at Dachau.
Krematoria
Himmler inspected Auschwitz on March 1, 1941, and
ordered that a POW
camp be built...Among other projects, the plan provided for the
construction of a crematorium
capable of incinerating 1,440 bodies in 24 hours. It was projected to
consist of five three-retort
ovens for burning bodies, one oven for burning refuse, and one
underground mortuary. The site
was to be in the main camp at Auschwitz.
In consideration of the ongoing preparations for the extermination of
Jews, it was decided to adapt
the installation for mass killing by constructing a gas chamber next
to it, in an underground facility
also dedicated as a mortuary. The second room was to serve as a
"dressing room". Both were to be
ventilated mechanically.
An order placed with the firm Topf and Sons of Erfurt on October 22,
1941, stressed the urgency
of the entire undertaking, demanding fast delivery: two weeks for
technical drawings of the
foundations and three months for parts of the ovens...However, before
the construction work
began, Heinz Kammler, chief of Group C of the SS
Economic-Administrative Main Office and one
of the closest associates of Himmler, arrived at Auschwitz on February
27, 1942 and ordered that
the five-oven crematorium projected for Auschwitz be constructed at
Birkenau.
Despite the hectic pace of work, which went on day and night, the
approved deadlines for launching
the crematoria failed to be met. The camp administration did not take
delivery of the crematoria and
gas chambers until the spring and summer of 1943...
A letter from the Zentralbauleitung to Group C of June 28, 1943
indicates that the capacity for a
24-hour period was estimated at 340 bodies for crematorium I; 1,440
each for crematoria II and III;
and 768 each for crematoria IV and V. Thus the five crematoria could
incinerate 4,765 bodies each
day...
The furnace room occupied the largest interior space on the ground
floor of the crematorium. It
housed five furnaces, each with three retorts (about 2m long, 80 cm
wide, and 1m high) that were
used to push the bodies into the furnace. There were two generators of
coke gas on the opposite
side. The fumes were funneled to a single chimney through flues under
the floor. Initially, the
furnaces of crematorium II were equipped with a forced-draft
installation. The draft was produced
by three intake ventilators situated between the furnaces and the
chimney. Within a short time,
however, they burned out...
In addition, crematoria II and III were equipped with special furnaces
for incinerating less-valuable
articles, such as personal papers, women's purses, books, and toys
that were found in the luggage
of the murdered victims...The disinfected hair of gassed women was
dried in the attic...
In the gas chamber's anteroom, the bodies were relieved of spectacles
and artificial limbs, and the
women's hair was cut off. Thereupon the corpses were loaded on the
elevator platform and lifted to
the ground floor. Some of the corpses were dragged directly to the
oven area. Others were moved
to the corpse storage room opposite the elevator, which also served as
a site of executions by
shooting. Just before incineration, Sonderkommando prisoners removed
jewelry, which they
tossed into a special numbered crate.
Teeth with metal fillings, crowns, and bridges made of gold or other
precious metals were extracted
from the mouths of the gassed victims and deposited in a crate marked
"Zahnstation" (dental
station)....
It took about four hours to empty the gas chamber. Initially, the
corpses were delivered to the
furnaces on small trolleys that ran on rails, as was done in the main
camp. The trolleys also served
to load the corpses into the furnace retorts. This arrangement,
however, did not last long. On the
initiative of the Kapo August Bruck, special corpse stretchers, which
could be rolled into the
retorts, were introduced. To facilitate the loading, the corpse
stretchers were lubricated with soapy
water. Methods of loading the corpses varied; each team servicing the
furnaces had its own
technique. For example, H. Tauber's team would put two corpses into
one retort two times, then
add as many children's corpses as possible to the second load.
It took about 20 minutes to cremate three corpses in one retort.
However, in their efforts to reduce
the number of loadings, prisoners cremated four to five corpses at one
time, and extended the
cremation time to about 25 to 30 minutes. When the time was up, the
next load would be put into
the retort, regardless of the degree of incineration of the preceding
load. The incompletely
incinerated bones fell through the grill into the ash pit, were ground
with wooden mortars along
with the ashes, then poured into pits near the crematorium. Next they
were removed from the pits
and poured into the Vistula river or nearby ponds. Sometimes they were
used to prepare compost;
other times they were used directly to fertilize the fields of the
camp farms.
Anatomy, pp. 164-170.
Great columns of smoke rise from the crematoria and merge up above
into a huge black river which
very slowly floats across the sky over Birkenau and disappears beyond
the forests in the direction
of Trzebinia. The "Sosnowiec-Bedzin" transport is already burning.
Borowski, p. 49.
Cliff Swiger
On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 22:47:53 +0000, Chuck Ferree <chu...@rio.com>
wrote:
>Let's not get mixed up now, you are talking about storage of corpses,
>amount of times for cremation, and so on. I don't know where you got
>your information, but it doesn't really make too much difference. Most
>of mine comes from Martin Gilbert's "The Holocaust" but also I have
>other books by various authors which pretty much come to the same
>conclusion.
You don't know where I got my "information?" I was taught mathematics
in school, Chuck! Don't you see that it does not matter if you're a
National Socialist, a Jew, a Black, an Asian, a communist or a
registered democrat.........I already said communist, didn't I.
Anyway, engineering design is engineering design, math is math. Its
all totally unbiased. You crunch the numbers and compare it to
mechanical design and limitations.
AND CHUCK WRITES ON!
>I'll send more on Mauthausen. Cliff, I went into Mauthausen two days
>after it's liberation.
>
>A gas chamber had been used there for several years.
>The gas chamber at Dachau was on German soil, it was used to gas
>humans.
>It took about four hours to empty the gas chamber.
>It took about 20 minutes to cremate three corpses in one retort.
>However, in their efforts to reduce
>the number of loadings, prisoners cremated four to five corpses at one
>time, and extended the
>cremation time to about 25 to 30 minutes.
Once again you call Wisenthau a liar by claiming an extermination gas
chamber at Dachau which is in Germany. If it took 4 hours to unload
the gas chamber in a best case you'd only be able to send 1500 bodies
to the crematories in a 24 hour shift. No where near 12,000 as is
claimed. Incinerating 4 or 5 corpses in 25 to 30 minutes? Totally
asinine. State of the art crematories take 1 to 3 hours to cremate
just one corpse. Consult a crematory and find out for yourself. But,
this is technical and mathematical information that certainly doesn't
have any weight against your emotional and fantasic imagination, does
it Chuck? Sweet dreams.
Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit macht frei
Mark Van Alstine
In article <32d5d307....@news.dmsc.net>, csw...@westco.net (Cliff
Swiger) wrote:
[snip]
> Once again you call Wisenthau a liar by claiming an extermination gas
> chamber at Dachau which is in Germany.
That's Wiesenthal, Mr. Swiger. And in regard to your specious claim above,
the Simon Wiesenthal Center states the following:
"The Nazis classified their many hundreds of concentration camps on their
basis of their primary function. In a very real sense, all were death
camps because the death of the inmates, whether through overwork,
starvation/disease, or outright murder, was ultimately expected.
"Those sites, however, which functioned as extermination centers
(Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Majdanek, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno),
were specially equipped for the gassing of hundreds of thousands of
victims each (millions altogether). All of these camps were located in
Poland, and for
good reason. Poland had far more Jews than Germany and the rest of
Western Europe combined. The Nazis also felt that the relative remoteness
of Poland's rural areas would also minimize reports of mass murder taking
place there.
Source: http://www.wiesenthal.com/resource/revision.htm#12
Note the reference to "extermination centers" and _not_ "extermination gas
chamber[s]," Mr. Swiger? You are clearly in err when you imply that the
issue is in regards to "extermination gas chamber[s]" rather than
extermination _camps_
And what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center have to say about extermination
centers (i.e. death camps)?
"A death (or mass murder) camp is a concentration camp with special
apparatus specifically designed for systematic murder. Six such camps
existed: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor,
Treblinka. All were located in Poland."
Source: http://www.wiesenthal.com/resource/36quest1.htm#6
Note the reference to "mass murder" and "special apparatus specifically
designed for systematic murder." The homicidal gas chambers at Dachau were
never used for systematic mass murder, Mr. Swiger. And when comparing
hokmicidal gassinf operartions at Dachau to the the six death camps on
Poland, Mr. Swiger, relatively few people were killed in the gas chamber
at Dachau. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Swiger, Dachau was not an
extermination camp and the Simon Wiesenthal Center never claimed it was.
> If it took 4 hours to unload the gas chamber in a best case you'd only
be able
> to send 1500 bodies to the crematories in a 24 hour shift. No where near
> 12,000 as is claimed.
Mr. Swiger, you seemed to have "confused" Barracke X at Dachau with the
Kremas at Birkemau! Why is that? Ignorance or duplicity?
The issue of how many people could be gassed is somewhat misleading, Mr.
Swiger, as it the bottleneck to the gassing operations at Birkenau was the
incineration of the victims. According to an estimate made by the
Auschwitz SS the number of corpses that could be incinerated in the four
Kremas every 24 hours was 4,416. However, by overloadeding the furnaces
the number of victims incinerated was increased to perhaps as much as
7,000-8,000 every 24 hours. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_,
pp.165-166,171,173,180.)
Of course, with the disabling of Krema IV in late 1943, the incineration
capacity was reduced by about 1,500 corspes per 24 hours. This meant that
the incineration capacity at Birkenau would have been approximately
5,500-6,500 victims per day. This caused unacceptable problems during
Aktion Ho"ss and incineration pits were used to take care of the
"overflow." The incineration pits, in _addition_ to the three Kremas,
could handle some 10,000 victims per day. (One set of pits augmented
Krtema IV [5,000 per day] and another handled the gassing victims of
bunker 2 [5,000 per day]). (cf. Ibid., pp.173,234.)
This would mean that the number of victims that could be killed _and_
disposed of per day at Birkenau could have been as high as 16,000 or so.
> ...Incinerating 4 or 5 corpses in 25 to 30 minutes? Totally
> asinine.
Then, Mr. Swiger, I'm sure you won't mind posting, for example, the heat
transfer equations, in specific regard to the Topf tripple-muffle furnace,
that proves that incinerating "4 or 5 corpses" in 25-30 minutes is
"totally asinine?"
> State of the art crematories take 1 to 3 hours to cremate
> just one corpse. Consult a crematory and find out for yourself.
Excellent advice, Mr. Swiger! Too bad you seem to have not taken it
yourself. From the Internet Cremation Society FAQ:
"The temperature at which cremations are done vary based upon the retort
manufacturer, but most machines operate between 1,500 to 1,900 degrees F.
The actual cremation time again varies depending upon the type of machine.
Low capacity retorts take approximately 3 hours to complete a cremation
while high capacity machines take less than one hour. In addition to the
type of retort, the size of the individual and the number of cremations
conducted during the day also affect the time. For example, in the retort
we operate, the first cremation of the day takes about two hours and the
second takes about an hour. That is because the retort already has a high
internal temperature at the beginning of the second cremation."
Source: http://www.cremation.org/faq.shtml#At what temperature
Please note, Mr. Swiger, that "high capacity machines take less than one
hour." Considering the operating temperatures, incineration times, and
number of muffles etc, the Topf triple-muffle furnace was indeed a "high
capacity machine."
Please _also_ keep in mind, Mr. Swiger, that there are (and were) laws
that prohibit commercial cremtoria from co-mingling the remains of the
deceased. This means that the civilian cremation process allows for _only_
one corpse to be cremated at a time in the muffle. Such restrictions,
however, did _not_ apply to SS concentration camp crematoria. This is
_why_ furnaces were equiped with multiple muffles and _why_ more than one
corpse was charged per muffle. Multiple muffle furnaces, like the Topf
furnaces, in addition to their high capacity, were more economical in the
SS concentration camp environment than single muffle furnaces. (cf. Ibid.
p.139.)
> But,this is technical and mathematical information that certainly doesn't
> have any weight against your emotional and fantasic imagination, does
> it Chuck? Sweet dreams.
_What_ "technical and mathematical information" would that be, Mr. Swiger.
So far _you_ have been long on wind and short on math. Typical denier: all
bark and no bite.
For those interested in proof of the Nazi Mr. Swiger's ignorant Holocaust
denial, vile Nazi beliefs, absolute intellectual dishonesty, and his
outright lies, please visit:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g/1996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g/1997
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g/swigers-politics
Mark
>
> Cliff Swiger
> Wahrheit macht frei
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts."
-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doc Tavish
Mike Curtis wrote:
>
> csw...@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 22:47:53 +0000, Chuck Ferree <chu...@rio.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>amount of times for cremation, and so on. I don't know where you got
> >>your information, but it doesn't really make too much difference. Most
> >>of mine comes from Martin Gilbert's "The Holocaust" but also I have
> >>other books by various authors which pretty much come to the same
> >>conclusion.
> >
> >in school, Chuck! Don't you see that it does not matter if you're a
> >National Socialist, a Jew, a Black, an Asian, a communist or a
> >registered democrat.........I already said communist, didn't I.
> >Anyway, engineering design is engineering design, math is math. Its
> >all totally unbiased. You crunch the numbers and compare it to
> >mechanical design and limitations.
from us. Remember Jews Jonathan Pollard and the Rosenbergs and all the
rest of the traitorious filth that has stolen secrets from us!
>
> Math is unbiased. The figures used need to be justified and their
> origin verified. So it would help to know where you get your figures.
>
> >
> > AND CHUCK WRITES ON!
> >>I'll send more on Mauthausen. Cliff, I went into Mauthausen two days
> >>after it's liberation.
> >>
> >>A gas chamber had been used there for several years.
> >
> >>humans.
> >
> >
> >>However, in their efforts to reduce
Where are these super ovens? Where did the technology go?
> >>the number of loadings, prisoners cremated four to five corpses at one
> >>time, and extended the
> >>cremation time to about 25 to 30 minutes.
> >
> >Once again you call Wisenthau a liar by claiming an extermination gas
> >chamber at Dachau which is in Germany.
>
> Don't be silly, Cliff. The guy you love to hate said that there were
> no extermination camps on German soil. This means the kind of
> extermination camps like Treblinka and Auschwitz-Birkenau. There was a
> gas chamber at Dachau and historians argue whether it was used or not.
> If it was used it wasn't of the kind we would find in the previously
> mentioned camps that were outside Germany. You've been told this
> before and have privately acknowledged in the past that you understood
> this, but you didn't care.
>
> > If it took 4 hours to unload
> >the gas chamber in a best case you'd only be able to send 1500 bodies
> >to the crematories in a 24 hour shift. No where near 12,000 as is
> >claimed.
>
> Claimed by whom?
>
> > Incinerating 4 or 5 corpses in 25 to 30 minutes? Totally
> >asinine.
Where did this technology disappear to? This technology would be useful
for waste disposal. Please Jews do inform us!
> Prove it. This because I say so denier technique is wearing thin.
>
> > State of the art crematories take 1 to 3 hours to cremate
> >just one corpse.
>
> These are crematoriums that care about state laws and the results they
> have to provide for relatives. You are aware of this, it is clear that
> you haven't a care in the world about comparing apples to apples and
> oranges to oranges. You never have. I guess it is not necessary for
> you to be honest at this time.
>
> > Consult a crematory and find out for yourself. But,
> >this is technical and mathematical information that certainly doesn't
> >have any weight against your emotional and fantasic imagination, does
> >it Chuck? Sweet dreams.
> >
>
> Modern cremations have quite different concerns than did the Nazis.
Hey Mikey, I know that you are Marxist in your thinking and therefore
unconcerned with capitalistic endeavors but wouldn't you think that
modern crematoria would like to use the same SUPER cremation techniques
as did the Nazis? Remember this anti-capitalist Mike: "Time is money"
and no efficient operator would use outdated techniques if such super
vaporization techniques were available. If you believe in any form of
capitalism
then it would have to be a Jewish capitalism. More lies from the masters
of deceit- Jews!
Doc Tavish
>
> Mike Curtis
Mike Curtis
csw...@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 22:47:53 +0000, Chuck Ferree <chu...@rio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Let's not get mixed up now, you are talking about storage of corpses,
>>amount of times for cremation, and so on. I don't know where you got
>>your information, but it doesn't really make too much difference. Most
>>of mine comes from Martin Gilbert's "The Holocaust" but also I have
>>other books by various authors which pretty much come to the same
>>conclusion.
>
>You don't know where I got my "information?" I was taught mathematics
>in school, Chuck! Don't you see that it does not matter if you're a
>National Socialist, a Jew, a Black, an Asian, a communist or a
>registered democrat.........I already said communist, didn't I.
>Anyway, engineering design is engineering design, math is math. Its
>all totally unbiased. You crunch the numbers and compare it to
>mechanical design and limitations.
Math is unbiased. The figures used need to be justified and their
origin verified. So it would help to know where you get your figures.
>
> AND CHUCK WRITES ON!
>>I'll send more on Mauthausen. Cliff, I went into Mauthausen two days
>>after it's liberation.
>>
>>A gas chamber had been used there for several years.
>
>>The gas chamber at Dachau was on German soil, it was used to gas
>>humans.
>
>>It took about four hours to empty the gas chamber.
>
>>It took about 20 minutes to cremate three corpses in one retort.
>>However, in their efforts to reduce
>>the number of loadings, prisoners cremated four to five corpses at one
>>time, and extended the
>>cremation time to about 25 to 30 minutes.
>
>Once again you call Wisenthau a liar by claiming an extermination gas
>chamber at Dachau which is in Germany.
Don't be silly, Cliff. The guy you love to hate said that there were
no extermination camps on German soil. This means the kind of
extermination camps like Treblinka and Auschwitz-Birkenau. There was a
gas chamber at Dachau and historians argue whether it was used or not.
If it was used it wasn't of the kind we would find in the previously
mentioned camps that were outside Germany. You've been told this
before and have privately acknowledged in the past that you understood
this, but you didn't care.
> If it took 4 hours to unload
>the gas chamber in a best case you'd only be able to send 1500 bodies
>to the crematories in a 24 hour shift. No where near 12,000 as is
>claimed.
Claimed by whom?
> Incinerating 4 or 5 corpses in 25 to 30 minutes? Totally
>asinine.
Prove it. This because I say so denier technique is wearing thin.
> State of the art crematories take 1 to 3 hours to cremate
>just one corpse.
These are crematoriums that care about state laws and the results they
have to provide for relatives. You are aware of this, it is clear that
you haven't a care in the world about comparing apples to apples and
oranges to oranges. You never have. I guess it is not necessary for
you to be honest at this time.
> Consult a crematory and find out for yourself. But,
>this is technical and mathematical information that certainly doesn't
>have any weight against your emotional and fantasic imagination, does
>it Chuck? Sweet dreams.
>
Modern cremations have quite different concerns than did the Nazis.
Mike Curtis
Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?
European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ (Under construction - permanently!)
Chuck Ferree
Chuck writes for tha doc krock:
So now you are not only an expert on .45.70s and their value, an
expert on Elvis hanging out with Giwer in my home town, but you now
claim to be an expert on crematoriums.
doc, please, shaddup an deal!
Chuck
Doc Tavish wrote:
>
> Mike Curtis wrote:
> >
> > csw...@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) wrote:
> >
> > >On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 22:47:53 +0000, Chuck Ferree <chu...@rio.com>
clips redundant
> Where are these super ovens? Where did the technology go?
No place, doc, it's still possible, but laws prevent from putting in a
fat lady with a skinny old fart like you, plus a plump little kid,
just off the train from Holland or some place.
clips......redundant
>Where did this technology disappear to? This technology would be useful
> for waste disposal. Please Jews do inform us!
I just explained all this to you, dumb-shit. And another thing, you
anti-Semitic dipstick, Jews don't own every mortuary in the world.
Check with "Butch" there in Prescott he buried both my Mom and my Dad,
he ain't no Jew, he's a big fat and very dumb Cherman.
>
> > Prove it. This because I say so denier technique is wearing thin.
> >
clips
>
> Hey Mikey, I know that you are Marxist in your thinking and therefore
> unconcerned with capitalistic endeavors but wouldn't you think that
> modern crematoria would like to use the same SUPER cremation techniques
> as did the Nazis?
Listen to me , doc!!! Don't you call this man Mikey. His name is Mike,
and don't you forget it. And he certainly doesn't think like a
marxist, as opposed to your thinking, writing and acting like a
natsiewannabe.
Remember this anti-capitalist Mike: "Time is money"
Time is money, huh, doc. How much money we talking about. doc. I make
more money accidently than you do on purpose.
Got my own airplane....Luscome 1943...antique.
You a capitalist, doc? How come you take social security from the
taxpayers? Did you earn it, doc?
clips
More lies from the masters
> of deceit- Jews!
fucking pro-natsie MF
Sweet Dreams, doc. Listen for the sound of the round slamming into
the chamber.
Chuck Ferree
>
> Doc Tavish
>
> >
> > Mike Curtis
ChuckF2323
Subject: Re: Chuck re Swiger
From: csw...@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:26:23 GMT
Message-ID: <32d5d307....@news.dmsc.net>
On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 22:47:53 +0000, Chuck Ferree <chu...@rio.com>
wrote:
>Let's not get mixed up now, you are talking about storage of corpses,
>amount of times for cremation, and so on. I don't know where you got
>your information, but it doesn't really make too much difference. Most
>of mine comes from Martin Gilbert's "The Holocaust" but also I have
>other books by various authors which pretty much come to the same
>conclusion.
You don't know where I got my "information?" I was taught mathematics
in school, Chuck!
Give the schools credit...they tried but failed to teach you much of
anything. Math I know you flunked.
Don't you see that it does not matter if you're a
National Socialist, a Jew, a Black, an Asian, a communist or a
registered democrat.........I already said communist, didn't I.
Anyway, engineering design is engineering design, math is math.
Yeah, but you gotta know how to use it properly, it's not just number
crunching like you do.
Its
all totally unbiased. You crunch the numbers and compare it to
mechanical design and limitations.
AND CHUCK WRITES ON!
>I'll send more on Mauthausen. Cliff, I went into Mauthausen two days
>after it's liberation.
>
>A gas chamber had been used there for several years.
>The gas chamber at Dachau was on German soil, it was used to gas
>humans.
>It took about four hours to empty the gas chamber.
Who said this: Chuck didn't!
>It took about 20 minutes to cremate three corpses in one retort.
>However, in their efforts to reduce
>the number of loadings, prisoners cremated four to five corpses at one
>time, and extended the
>cremation time to about 25 to 30 minutes.
Once again you call Wisenthau a liar by claiming an extermination gas
chamber at Dachau which is in Germany. If it took 4 hours to unload
the gas chamber
you admitting there was a gas chamber at Dachau? Good, but I never said
how long it took to unload it after killing inmates.
in a best case you'd only be able to send 1500 bodies
to the crematories in a 24 hour shift. No where near 12,000 as is
claimed. Incinerating 4 or 5 corpses in 25 to 30 minutes? Totally
asinine. State of the art crematories take 1 to 3 hours to cremate
just one corpse.
Bullshit. I checked, because that's the way I'm going. Depends and it
doesn't take that long. And they by law can only do one at a time.
At Auschwitz, they did 3-4 at a time.
Consult a crematory and find out for yourself. But,
this is technical and mathematical information that certainly doesn't
have any weight against your emotional and fantasic imagination, does
it Chuck? Sweet dreams.
Cliff, read some more news papers, and get the facts from Playboy.
Chuck
Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit macht frei
IF THE DENIERS CAN'T PROVE IT...THEN THEY LIE
Mark Van Alstine
In article <32D671...@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree <chu...@rio.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Doc Tavish wrote:
[snip]
> > Where are these super ovens? Where did the technology go?
>
> No place, doc, it's still possible, but laws prevent from putting in a
> fat lady with a skinny old fart like you, plus a plump little kid,
> just off the train from Holland or some place.
>
[snip]
Actually, one may find an intact Topf coke-fired double-muffle furnace in
KL Mauthausen today. It was built under the New Hospital at KL Mauthhausen
in July of 1944. (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.110-111.)
Additionally, one may also find two Topf coke-fired double-muffle furnace
in KL Auschwitz today. They were rebuilt after the camp's liberation from
parts found in the camp. (cf. Ibid. p.154.)
There also may be a Topf coke-fired triple-muffle furnace still at
Buchenwald. (This would be identical to the ones installed in Kremas II
and III at Auschwitz). When the Americans liberated Buchenwald they took
photos of the furnace. (cf. Ibid. p.259.)
And, of course, there are photos, taken (in January 1943) by the Auschwitz
Bauleitung, of the five Topf coke-fired triple-muffle furnace in Krema II.
These furnaces, along with those in Krema III, were dismantled and shipped
to other concentration camps prior to the Nazis abandoning Birkenau. The
Topf coke-fired 8-muffle furnace of Krema IV (which was razed in the
Sonderkommado revolt of October 7, 1944) was dismantled and the metal
parts stored in the Auschwitz Bauhof. (cf. Ibid. pp.253,333-334; Gutman,
_Anatomy_, p.239.)
Finally, there are photos, taken after the liberation of Birkenau, that
show the twisted remains of the Topf coke-fired 8-muffle furnace of Krema
V. (The furnace was intact and operational when Krema V was dynamited by
the SS just prior to abandoning the camp.) Said remains may still there
today. (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.425.)
> >Where did this technology disappear to? This technology would be useful
> > for waste disposal. Please Jews do inform us!
>
> I just explained all this to you, dumb-shit. And another thing, you
> anti-Semitic dipstick, Jews don't own every mortuary in the world.
> Check with "Butch" there in Prescott he buried both my Mom and my Dad,
> he ain't no Jew, he's a big fat and very dumb Cherman.
Actually, Topf & Sons _did_ incorporate technology- developed from the
incineration furnaces supplied to the SS concentration camps -in a
post-war single-muffle cremation furnace. In fact, Topf _patented_ much of
this technology, which can be found in Patent No. 861 731, issued on
January 5, 1953, by the German Patent Office of the Federal Republic of
Germany. (cf. Ibid. p.104-105.)
According to Pressace the main inventions were "the almost complete
combustion of the corpse (so that the volume of ashes remaining was rarely
enough to fill a normal urn) by a system of hot air recovery. The time
taken to cremate a corspe was from 35 to 45 minutes. The guillotine-type
closing system for the muffle door was that desinged by Pru"fer for his
8-muffle furnace. It is not known whether this model, a little marvel of
technical design, was ever marketed. It incorporated much of the
experiance gained by Topf in the Concentration camps." (cf. Ibid. p.105.)
It is also interesting to note that the injection of compressed air into
the muffle of the furnace was origionally patented by Volckman and Ludwig
in 1928 and used by Topf in the incineration furnaces it supplied to the
Nazi concentration camps. The use of this compressed air system removed
the need for an expensive (and complex) heat exchanger, thus reducing the
cost of the furnace. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, pp183-184). This technology
can be found in modern-day crematory furnaces.
[snip]
Mark
Mike Curtis
Doc Tavish <tav...@phoenix.net> wrote:
I found at the bottom, Tavish changing threads and trying to hide from
me. This must be the new method: do not respond in the original
thread. Hide. Maybe the original responder will not find your reply.
>>
>> Modern cremations have quite different concerns than did the Nazis.
>
>Hey Mikey, I know that you are Marxist
What is a Marxist? What is Marxist thinking?
> in your thinking and therefore
>unconcerned with capitalistic endeavors but wouldn't you think that
>modern crematoria would like to use the same SUPER cremation techniques
>as did the Nazis?
They do not have volume concerns as the Nazis did. They have to follow
state regulations. They have to satisfy the relatives with the
treatment of the bodies and return the ashes of the relative being
cremated.
> Remember this anti-capitalist Mike: "Time is money"
>and no efficient operator would use outdated techniques if such super
>vaporization techniques were available. If you believe in any form of
>capitalism
>then it would have to be a Jewish capitalism. More lies from the masters
>of deceit- Jews!
>
I haven't a clue what respect for the dead has to do with capitalism.
This guy really doesn't think like he posts, does he?
Mike Curtis
E-mail mcu...@inetport.com
Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
Elother
On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:17:15 -0700, mvan...@rbi.com (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote in alt.revisionism:
>In article <32d5d307....@news.dmsc.net>, csw...@westco.net (Cliff
>Swiger) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> Once again you call Wisenthau a liar by claiming an extermination gas
>> chamber at Dachau which is in Germany.
>
>That's Wiesenthal, Mr. Swiger. And in regard to your specious claim above,
>the Simon Wiesenthal Center states the following:
>
>"The Nazis classified their many hundreds of concentration camps on their
>basis of their primary function. In a very real sense, all were death
>camps because the death of the inmates, whether through overwork,
>starvation/disease, or outright murder, was ultimately expected.
>
>"Those sites, however, which functioned as extermination centers
>(Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Majdanek, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno),
>were specially equipped for the gassing of hundreds of thousands of
>victims each (millions altogether). All of these camps were located in
>Poland, and for
> good reason. Poland had far more Jews than Germany and the rest of
>Western Europe combined. The Nazis also felt that the relative remoteness
>of Poland's rural areas would also minimize reports of mass murder taking
>place there.
>
>Source: http://www.wiesenthal.com/resource/revision.htm#12
It is interesting that this falsely implies that
"extermination" is a nazi classification. It is also interesting that
any classification system that might have existed is never presented.
Do you have any idea why that is?
>Note the reference to "extermination centers" and _not_ "extermination gas
>chamber[s]," Mr. Swiger? You are clearly in err when you imply that the
>issue is in regards to "extermination gas chamber[s]" rather than
>extermination _camps_
And see how well the implication works. An SWC classification
is introduced as though it were in fact a nazi classification. And
then it is presented as though it were more than an SWC opinion on the
matter.
>And what does the Simon Wiesenthal Center have to say about extermination
>centers (i.e. death camps)?
>
>"A death (or mass murder) camp is a concentration camp with special
>apparatus specifically designed for systematic murder. Six such camps
>existed: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor,
>Treblinka. All were located in Poland."
>
>Source: http://www.wiesenthal.com/resource/36quest1.htm#6
>
>Note the reference to "mass murder" and "special apparatus specifically
>designed for systematic murder."
It is interesting that we have been over this "specifically
designed" issue and so far we have discovered that such specific
designs are only rooms with doors. We have been searching in vain for
other specific design features for months now and none emerge. (Save
of course a large windowless building with forced ventilation.)
>The homicidal gas chambers at Dachau were
>never used for systematic mass murder, Mr. Swiger.
And just what were their specific design features? Why does no
one have an answer to this rather obvious question?
And when comparing
>hokmicidal gassinf operartions at Dachau to the the six death camps on
>Poland, Mr. Swiger, relatively few people were killed in the gas chamber
>at Dachau. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Swiger, Dachau was not an
>extermination camp and the Simon Wiesenthal Center never claimed it was.
Are these the bodies where the autopsies found no signs of
poison?
>> If it took 4 hours to unload the gas chamber in a best case you'd only
>be able
>> to send 1500 bodies to the crematories in a 24 hour shift. No where near
>> 12,000 as is claimed.
>
>Mr. Swiger, you seemed to have "confused" Barracke X at Dachau with the
>Kremas at Birkemau! Why is that? Ignorance or duplicity?
>
>The issue of how many people could be gassed is somewhat misleading, Mr.
>Swiger, as it the bottleneck to the gassing operations at Birkenau was the
>incineration of the victims. According to an estimate made by the
>Auschwitz SS the number of corpses that could be incinerated in the four
>Kremas every 24 hours was 4,416. However, by overloadeding the furnaces
>the number of victims incinerated was increased to perhaps as much as
>7,000-8,000 every 24 hours. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_,
>pp.165-166,171,173,180.)
A feat that can not be duplicated today. So why would you
believe it was possible in the past?
=====
The URL, the mail drop, and the synagogue phone numbers
Brian Oblivion
On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:47:27 GMT, mcu...@inetport.com (Mike Curtis)
wrote in alt.revisionism:
>Doc Tavish <tav...@phoenix.net> wrote:
>> in your thinking and therefore
>>unconcerned with capitalistic endeavors but wouldn't you think that
>>modern crematoria would like to use the same SUPER cremation techniques
>>as did the Nazis?
>
>They do not have volume concerns as the Nazis did. They have to follow
>state regulations. They have to satisfy the relatives with the
>treatment of the bodies and return the ashes of the relative being
>cremated.
And the also spoke in German. Now please demonstrate how what
you have stated reduces the time to 12 or 6 minutes, depending upon
the story.
Cliff Swiger
>In article <32D671...@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree <chu...@rio.com> wrote:
>Actually, one may find an intact Topf coke-fired double-muffle furnace in
>KL Mauthausen today. It was built under the New Hospital at KL Mauthhausen
>in July of 1944. (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.110-111.)
Hi Mark: What individuals, like Ferree here, fail to EVER accept is
that the technology in circa 1940 could in no way ever have achieved
such exaggerated cremation rates. I've permitted these illusionists,
like Ferree, to theoretically stuff 3 to 4 Jews in the "muffles" and
their claims are still absurd when analyzed with engineering
techniques. I really hate to divert here, but Ferree is one of those
"I'm a WW2 hero" egocentrics. The man makes claims that he was at
various concentration camps and once told me he piloted some top brass
into communist occupied Poland after the war. Maybe he did? But it is
strange that no Western investigators were permitted to enter this
area after the war, but old Chuckie Boy and his entourage somehow were
able to penetrate the Iron Curtain.
I took the trouble to wade through Chuck's "stall of horse manure" as
relates to Topf and Sons' crematoria. He is one of those individuals
that takes a little fact and mixes it with a a lot of fiction. Sure
the National Socialists had crematoria but Chuck assumes you'll buy
into his fabalism and accept that these circa 1940 crematoriums could
out do state-of-the-art crematoriums by at least a factor of 10. I'm
marveled by the blatent ignorance of some.
Chuck Writes:
>Additionally, one may also find two Topf coke-fired double-muffle furnace
>in KL Auschwitz today. They were rebuilt after the camp's liberation from
>parts found in the camp. (cf. Ibid. p.154.)
You're darn right they were "rebuilt." But no one was allowed to see
the reconstruction until the late 1950s. And, they were rebuilt by the
communists who did a real lousy job due to the fact that there have
been 3 forensic analyses at the site all of which claim that it was
scientifically impossible to have ever gassed individuals there or
cremated them at the alleged rate.
Mike Curtis
mgi...@gte.net(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:17:15 -0700, mvan...@rbi.com (Mark Van
>Alstine) wrote in alt.revisionism:
>
[snip]
>>Source: http://www.wiesenthal.com/resource/revision.htm#12
>
> It is interesting that this falsely implies that
>"extermination" is a nazi classification. It is also interesting that
>any classification system that might have existed is never presented.
>Do you have any idea why that is?
>
How about this?
From the Hoess interogation at Nuremberg on page 17:
Q: Now you told us you had facilities for 130,000. If you add up all
those figures they amount to a much greater number than 130,000. How
could you accommodate all these people?
A: They were not supposed to be employed in work there, but they were
supposed to be exterminated.
[ . . .]
page 19:
Q: What does final solution mean?
A: That means extermination; that's the way he stated it.
Q: You state it as meaning the extermination?
A: Yes.
Hoess was commanding officer at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
Brian Oblivion
On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:25:43 GMT, mcu...@inetport.com (Mike Curtis)
wrote in alt.revisionism:
>mgi...@gte.net(Matt Giwer) wrote:
I agree, there was no such classification. It is an SWC
invention.
Cliff Swiger
>How about this?
>
>From the Hoess interogation at Nuremberg on page 17:
>
>Q: Now you told us you had facilities for 130,000. If you add up all
>those figures they amount to a much greater number than 130,000. How
>could you accommodate all these people?
>
>A: They were not supposed to be employed in work there, but they were
>supposed to be exterminated.
>Hoess was commanding officer at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
Mike, come on now. The Hoess "affidavit" has been torn apart by
Revisionists for years. I'm really surprised to see you use it here.
Aside from Hoess' family being threatened with bodily harm if they did
not reveal his whereabouts, Hoess was tortured in order to exact a
"confession" from him. In fact, one of the interrogators, a Jew,
confessed in recent years to the torture of Hoess. I'm sure you're
well aware of this and are simply rolling the dice that any lurkers
who happened upon your post would not know the facts surrounding the
Hoess "affidavit".
I'll reiterate: It makes no difference how much testimony is produced,
or from who it came in the case of the Holocaust. None of the
"eyewitness" testimony or details of the various confessions can be
corroborated with any physical, forensic or scientific evidence.
Mark Van Alstine
In article <32d863d3...@news.dmsc.net>, csw...@westco.net (Cliff
Swiger) wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:47:09 -0700, mvan...@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
>
> >In article <32D671...@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree <chu...@rio.com> wrote:
>
> >Actually, one may find an intact Topf coke-fired double-muffle furnace in
> >KL Mauthausen today. It was built under the New Hospital at KL Mauthhausen
> >in July of 1944. (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.110-111.)
>
> Hi Mark: What individuals, like Ferree here, fail to EVER accept is
> that the technology in circa 1940 could in no way ever have achieved
> such exaggerated cremation rates.
Incorrect. There are many eywitness accounts that indicate that mulitple
bodies were charged per muffle. The Nazis themselves calculated that, for
example, the furnaces of Krema II could incinerate 1440 corpses per 24
hour period. Now, given that Krema II had five Topf triple-muffle
furnaces, that meant 1440 corpses in 15 muffles every 24 hours. That's 96
coprses incinerated per muffle in 24 hours. That's four corpses per hour,
or two corpses every 30 minutes.
Now, Mr. Swiger, please demonstrate, using the "engineering sciences,"
that two corpses _cannot_ be incinerated in 30 minutes in a muffle of a
Topf coke-fired triple-muffle furnace.
> I've permitted these illusionists...
You've "permitted," Mr. Swiger? My, aren't _you_ full of yourself! What a
pompus ass you are, Mr. Swiger.
> ...like Ferree, to theoretically stuff 3 to 4 Jews in the "muffles" and
> their claims are still absurd when analyzed with engineering
> techniques.
Interesting, is it not, that when you are asked again and again to provide
such analysis with "engineering techniques," Mr. Swiger, you are suddenly
silent? Why is that?
> I really hate to divert here, but Ferree is one of those
> "I'm a WW2 hero" egocentrics.
Mr. Swiger, given that _your_ chutzpah is matched only by your ignorance
and propensity to lie, I think it rather amusing that you claim that Mr.
Feree is egocentric.
> The man makes claims that he was at various concentration camps and once told
> me he piloted some top brass into communist occupied Poland after the war.
Indeed. Mr. Ferree has told others, myself included, much the very same
thing. Yet the only people I have seen accuse Mr. Feree of mispresenting
himself or lying about this has been Holocaust deniers. They have done so
without a shred of evidence to indicate that Mr. Feree was not telling the
truth.
> Maybe he did?
See. No shred of evidence. Just unnuendo. A specious "maybe."
> But it is strange that no Western investigators were permitted to enter this
> area after the war, but old Chuckie Boy and his entourage somehow were
> able to penetrate the Iron Curtain.
Does Mr. Swiger know what SHAEF stands for? It's not "Western investigators."
> I took the trouble to wade through Chuck's "stall of horse manure" as
> relates to Topf and Sons' crematoria. He is one of those individuals
> that takes a little fact and mixes it with a a lot of fiction. Sure
> the National Socialists had crematoria but Chuck assumes you'll buy
> into his fabalism and accept that these circa 1940 crematoriums could
> out do state-of-the-art crematoriums by at least a factor of 10. I'm
> marveled by the blatent ignorance of some.
The only ingorance demonstrated so far, Mr. Swiger, is yours.
> Chuck Writes:
Incorrect. I wrote that Mr. Swiger. Get a clue.
> >Additionally, one may also find two Topf coke-fired double-muffle furnace
> >in KL Auschwitz today. They were rebuilt after the camp's liberation from
> >parts found in the camp. (cf. Ibid. p.154.)
>
> You're darn right they were "rebuilt." But no one was allowed to see
> the reconstruction until the late 1950s.
So? Does Mr. Swiger see something sinister about the furnaces at Krema I
being rebuilt?
> And, they were rebuilt by the communists who did a real lousy job due to the
> fact that there have been 3 forensic analyses at the site....
Incorrect. The furnaces in question were located in the reconstruction of
Krema I, which was at Auschwitz I. The Cracow Forensic Institute's (1945)
report on toxilogical analysis of ventilation plates and vents was in
regards to Krema II, which was located in Auschwitz II-Birkenau. The
report by the Institute of Forensic Research (1994) concerned Kremas I at
Auschwitz and Krema II-V aT Birkenau. HNC traces were found at _all_ Krema
locations.
And the third "report?" Well, if this is the "Leuchter Report" then one
can discount its conclusions. The report has been thouroughly discredited
and Leuchter shown to be a fraud.
> all of which claim that it was scientifically impossible to have ever gassed
> individuals there or cremated them at the alleged rate.
Incorrect. The The Cracow Forensic Institute's report (1945) was concerned
with toxilogical anlaysis -not cremation rates. The report clearly
indicated that HCN residues were found in metal ventilation parts
recovered from the ruins of Krema II. The report by Institute of Forensic
Research (1994) likewise was concerned with chemical anlysis regarding HCN
traces. It did not address incineration rates.
And the "Leuchter Report?" Discredited denier propaganda.
However, there _was_ a report, evidently done just after the war ended,
that concerned itself with the cremation capacity of the Kremas at
Auschwitz. It was done by Dr. Roman Dawidowski, a professor at the Acadamy
of Mining and Metallurgy in Cracow. Dr. Dawidowski calculated that the
about 5,000 corpses per 24 hours could be incinerated in Krema II and III.
He aslo calculated that about 3,000 corpses could be incinerated in Kremas
IV and V per 24 hours. (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.45fn.)
For those interested in proof of the Nazi Mr. Swiger's ignorant Holocaust
denial, vile Nazi beliefs, anti-Semitism, absolute intellectual
dishonesty, and his outright lies, please visit:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g/1996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g/1997
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g/swigers-politics
Mark
Mark Van Alstine
In article <32d9ca7f...@news.dmsc.net>, csw...@westco.net (Cliff
Swiger) wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:25:43 GMT, mcu...@inetport.com (Mike Curtis)
> wrote:
>
> >How about this?
> >
> >From the Hoess interogation at Nuremberg on page 17:
> >
> >Q: Now you told us you had facilities for 130,000. If you add up all
> >those figures they amount to a much greater number than 130,000. How
> >could you accommodate all these people?
> >
> >A: They were not supposed to be employed in work there, but they were
> >supposed to be exterminated.
>
> >Hoess was commanding officer at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
>
> Mike, come on now. The Hoess "affidavit" has been torn apart by
> Revisionists for years.
More like deniers have torn _themselves_ apart trying to attack Ho"ss's
memoirs and testimony!
> I'm really surprised to see you use it here. Aside from Hoess' family being
> threatened with bodily harm if they did not reveal his whereabouts....
Does Mr. Swiger have a citation for this? (Hint: ask Mr. Belling.)
> Hoess was tortured in order to exact a "confession" from him.
And was this "confession" ever used against Ho'ss i court? (Hint: _don't_
ask Mr. Belling.)
> In fact, one of the interrogators, a Jew, confessed in recent years
> to the torture of Hoess.
Does Mr. Swiger have a citation for this? (Hint: ask Mr. Belling.)
> I'm sure you're well aware of this and are simply rolling the dice that any
> lurkers who happened upon your post would not know the facts surrounding the
> Hoess "affidavit".
Indeed. You just rolled "snake eyes" Mr. Swiger. You obviously know very
little about Ho"ss, his testimony at Kaltenvrunner's trial, his own trial
in Poland, and the role his "confession" to to British Field Security
Police played in all this.
> I'll reiterate: It makes no difference how much testimony is produced,
> or from who it came in the case of the Holocaust. None of the
> "eyewitness" testimony or details of the various confessions can be
> corroborated with any physical, forensic or scientific evidence.
Did anyone ever tell you, Mr. Swiger, that you sound like an ignorant and
pompus ass? Why don't you run along and go polish your jackboots or
practice your "Zeig Heils" or something? You are rather b-o-r-i-n-g with
these Stupid Nazi Tricks of yours.
For those interested in proof of the Nazi Mr. Swiger's ignorant Holocaust
denial, vile Nazi beliefs, anti-Semitism, absolute intellectual
Mike Curtis
csw...@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:25:43 GMT, mcu...@inetport.com (Mike Curtis)
>wrote:
>
>>How about this?
>>
>>From the Hoess interogation at Nuremberg on page 17:
>>
>>Q: Now you told us you had facilities for 130,000. If you add up all
>>those figures they amount to a much greater number than 130,000. How
>>could you accommodate all these people?
>>
>>A: They were not supposed to be employed in work there, but they were
>>supposed to be exterminated.
>
>>Hoess was commanding officer at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
>
>Mike, come on now. The Hoess "affidavit" has been torn apart by
>Revisionists for years.
Please inform this group about how the "revisionists" tore apart the
testimony of Hoess at Nuremberg, his memoirs, and his testimony in
Poland.
> I'm really surprised to see you use it here.
>Aside from Hoess' family being threatened with bodily harm if they did
>not reveal his whereabouts, Hoess was tortured in order to exact a
>"confession" from him.
Show that this "torture" is relevant to interogation and testimony at
Nuremberg. Remember at Nuremberg he was called by the defense. Then
relate how this "torture" relates to the writing of his memoirs or the
testimony given in Poland. Locate this "torture" in time. My
understanding is that he was beaten by the British when arrested to
find out who he was or something. Then they searched him for suicide
devices.
> In fact, one of the interrogators, a Jew,
>confessed in recent years to the torture of Hoess.
Where? Source?
> I'm sure you're
>well aware of this and are simply rolling the dice that any lurkers
>who happened upon your post would not know the facts surrounding the
>Hoess "affidavit".
>
Don't assume what I'm aware of and not aware of. Pretend I know
nothing and present the sources.
>I'll reiterate: It makes no difference how much testimony is produced,
>or from who it came in the case of the Holocaust. None of the
>"eyewitness" testimony or details of the various confessions can be
>corroborated with any physical, forensic or scientific evidence.
>
>Cliff Swiger
>Wahrheit macht frei
>
Mike Curtis
Allen Quatermain
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:57:40 -0700, mvan...@rbi.com (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote in alt.revisionism:
>In article <32d863d3...@news.dmsc.net>, csw...@westco.net (Cliff
>Swiger) wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:47:09 -0700, mvan...@rbi.com (Mark Van
>> Alstine) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <32D671...@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree <chu...@rio.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Actually, one may find an intact Topf coke-fired double-muffle furnace in
>> >KL Mauthausen today. It was built under the New Hospital at KL Mauthhausen
>> >in July of 1944. (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.110-111.)
>>
>> Hi Mark: What individuals, like Ferree here, fail to EVER accept is
>> that the technology in circa 1940 could in no way ever have achieved
>> such exaggerated cremation rates.
>
>Incorrect. There are many eywitness accounts that indicate that mulitple
>bodies were charged per muffle. The Nazis themselves calculated that, for
>example, the furnaces of Krema II could incinerate 1440 corpses per 24
>hour period. Now, given that Krema II had five Topf triple-muffle
>furnaces, that meant 1440 corpses in 15 muffles every 24 hours. That's 96
>coprses incinerated per muffle in 24 hours. That's four corpses per hour,
>or two corpses every 30 minutes.
Fool calculations do not make it possible.
>Now, Mr. Swiger, please demonstrate, using the "engineering sciences,"
>that two corpses _cannot_ be incinerated in 30 minutes in a muffle of a
>Topf coke-fired triple-muffle furnace.
Ah! the old playing stupid game again.
=====
"Greed is good." -- Ivan Boesky, but is sounds better in
the original Yiddish.
Gord McFee
In message <32db8f0...@news.inetport.com> - mcu...@inetport.com (Mike
Curtis)Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:12:21 GMT writes:
:>
:>csw...@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) wrote:
:>
:>>On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:25:43 GMT, mcu...@inetport.com (Mike Curtis)
:>>wrote:
:>>
:>>>How about this?
:>>>
:>>>From the Hoess interogation at Nuremberg on page 17:
:>>>
:>>>Q: Now you told us you had facilities for 130,000. If you add up all
:>>>those figures they amount to a much greater number than 130,000. How
:>>>could you accommodate all these people?
:>>>
:>>>A: They were not supposed to be employed in work there, but they were
:>>>supposed to be exterminated.
:>>
:>>>Hoess was commanding officer at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
:>>
:>>Mike, come on now. The Hoess "affidavit" has been torn apart by
:>>Revisionists for years.
:>
:>Please inform this group about how the "revisionists" tore apart the
:>testimony of Hoess at Nuremberg, his memoirs, and his testimony in
:>Poland.
Well actually, it has been a source of *terror* for the "revisionists" for
many years, because it is the corroborated testimony of the commandant of
Auschwitz about the numbers and scope and methodology of the killing there.
It causes them much discomfort and of course, they have been unable to refute
a single word. About their usual "success" rate.
[rest deleted]
Posted and e-mailed.
--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time
Daniel Keren
Matt Giwer, using another silly alias "a...@miskatonic.edu
(Allen Quatermain)", writes:
# Fool calculations do not make it possible.
I have to point out, yet again, that Matt Giwer, who
claims to be a genius with 163 IQ points, cannot handle
high-school math.
He has claimed a few times that the number 6 appears
too often in historical accounts of the Holocaust. Then,
another "revisionist" followed on this theory and
posted the following:
# In particular, the probability that five out of eleven
# observed statistics will be multiples of six is
# 1/6^(11/(11/5)) = 1 in 7,776.
Now, I have repeatedly asked Giwer if this calculation
is correct. Giwer never answered; he responded to my
articles, but never replied to my question. Apparently
no other "revisionist" out there can help him either.
This is a high-school problem. He can't solve it.
This is really the story of all the "revisionist"
movement: a person who cannot handle high-school math,
yet claims to be a genius with an IQ of 163. Pretty
sad, really.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, "leading
revisionist" Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas
chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums don't
prove anything, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of
humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.