A Letter to Ernst Zundel
Ed Kadach
>
> I was asked to forward the following letter to lists where Ernst
> Zundel would see it. I have now done so.
How kind of you OyVey. You should however tell this woman
the truth about the film "Swindler's List". Are you even
capable of telling a 'truth'?
Racialist regards,
Ed Kadach
> Ken McVay
>
> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 23:00:56 +0000
> >From: Hannah McCarthy <ca...@iol.ie>
>
> Dear Mr Zundel,
>
> Having seen a copy of the pamphlet online -
> http://www.2.ca.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zuendel-ernst/censorship/index.html.
>
> I was sufficiently moved to write to you (or at least attempt an
> effort).
> Firstly, I must affirm that I am not Jewish, that I have no "pro-Israel"
> feelings, and that I have had very little contact with Judaism, and the
> Jewish community. In fact, I speak German, have visited the country
> several times, and have many German friends.
> Your feelings regarding this film -"Schindler's List" -are similar
> to those shared by many that I have met in Germany. Yet, I disagree
> completely with your assumption that this film incites an anti-German
> feeling, for not one, but several reasons.
> The very title of the film contradicts this notion : the list of
> Schindler - a German Christian, to whom this film pays tribute, in a
> most moving manner. Furthermore, although German Christian civilians
> are not prominant characters, the film devotes itself to the the fate of
> over 250,000 Germans. Given this subject material, how can this film be
> perceived as "anti-German" ?
> Although your observations on the layout of the Plaszow camp would
> indeed seem to be valid, they are irrelevent in a historical context :
> rather, it is Goeth's brutality - as demonstrated by his random gunshots
> - that is being examined by the film. Having said that, this film does
> portray Goeth as a man who was, despite his horrific treatment of so
> many prisoners, not completely incapable of humanity : his increasing
> attempts to "pardon" the prisoners is testament to this (although his
> motives are questionable).
> Finally, if one is to examine the Holocaust on any level, it is
> necessary to examine the perpetraters of the genocide : the Nazi party.
> It was this political organisation that ignited such anti-Semitism,
> which as was witnessed in Poland, and the USSR, was an international
> form of racism. As the German invasion spread across Europe, so too,
> did Nazism : Dutch, French and Polish branches were establised in each
> country. The only neglect of the German people was to allow the
> atrocities to happen : to stand by, and make no attempt to intervene in
> the murder of so many of their fellow countrymen and women. Their
> unwillingness to involve themselves was repeated all over Europe. It is
> not a soley German phenomenon. The guilt of the Holocaust lies over
> Europe in its entirity, and we all partake in this shame.
>
> Yours
>
> Hannah McCarthy
> ca...@iol.ie
>
> --
> The Nizkor Project-----------------------http://www.nizkor.org
> Ken McVay, Director.ICQ 7015822. http://www.nizkor.org/~kmcvay
> Pentium III: Big Brother Inside
John Morris
Ed Kadach <edd...@connect.ab.ca> wrote:
>Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
>> I was asked to forward the following letter to lists where Ernst
>> Zundel would see it. I have now done so.
>How kind of you OyVey. You should however tell this woman
>the truth about the film "Swindler's List". Are you even
>capable of telling a 'truth'?
Hannah McCarthy knows the truth: Oskar Schindler save 1000 Jews from
your kind.
>Racialist regards,
I see you forgot to amend your insulting .sig for crossposts.
>Ed Kadach
[snip]
--
John Morris <John....@UAlberta.CA>
at University of Alberta <Multi pertransibunt & augebitur scientia>
Juergen Hubert
>
> Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> >
> > I was asked to forward the following letter to lists where Ernst
> > Zundel would see it. I have now done so.
>
> How kind of you OyVey. You should however tell this woman
> the truth about the film "Swindler's List". Are you even
> capable of telling a 'truth'?
>
>
> Ed Kadach
Are you?
- Juergen Hubert
Ed Kadach
>
> In article <xdpD2.660$XZ5....@news.rdc1.ab.wave.home.com>,
> Daniel Swan <dswan@tranquil_hegemony.ca> wrote:
>
> >I don't know if this is a case of willful ignorance, or if you've honestly
> >missed the point. The original poster is not claiming that there were NO
> >deathcamps, he is claiming that there were no deathcamps on GERMAN soil.
> >
> >Although I am not sure of the details, importance, or context, I believe
> >that this distinction is held to be significant by revisionists.
>
> "Revulsionist scholars" think it is significant only because Elie
> Wiesel said it. They ignore the unconvenient reality that
> Auschwitz-Birkenau was located in Silesia, and that part of Poland
> (long considered traditional German territory, which it was) was
> incorporated into the Reich after Poland was carved into pieces. In
> short, there _were_ death camps on German soil.
>
> That, however, is splitting hairs. One must look to the Hadamar gas
> chamber (Austria - also part of Germany at the time) which was used to
> gas "euthanasia" victims and people from Mauthausen, the experimental
> gas chamber at Dachau, in the Altreich, etc.
>
> One needs to ask, as another user has, when a camp becomes a "death"
> camp. To me, the answer is that the death camps were dedicated to
> murder, and nothing but murder. That definition isn't very satisfying,
> however, and would exclude Auschwitz, which included Monowitz - an
> industrial slave labour camp, and a vast agricultural complex.
>
> It is a straw man and nothing more.
And you're nothing more than a Nazikkok hemorroid McVay, and the most
fond dream of all you Nazikkok hemorrhoids is to be a healthy asshole
that can be painlessly wiped.
Racialist regards,
Ed Kadach
Ed Kadach
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Michael Bannerman
not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a
Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked
the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and
I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church —
and there was nobody left to be concerned.
Martin Niemöller, Congressional Record, 14, October 1968,
page 31636
Niemoller had been a U-boat captain in WW I prior to becoming a pastor.
And he supported Hitler prior to his taking power. Indeed, initially the
Nazi press held him up as a model... for his service in WW I. [Newsweek,
July 10,
1937, pg 32] But Niemoller broke very early with the Nazis. In 1933, he
organized the Pastor’s Emergency League to protect Lutheran pastors from
the police. In 1934, he was one of the leading organizers at the Barmen
Synod, which produced the theological basis for the Confessing Church,
which despite its persecution became an enduring symbol of German
resistance to Hitler.
Rev. Martin Niemoller was protected until 1937 by both the foreign press
and influential friends in the up-scale Berlin suburb where he preached.
Eventually, he was arrested for treason. Perhaps due to foreign
pressure, he was found guilty, but initially given only a suspended
sentence. He was however then almost immediately re-arrested on Hitler’s
direct orders. From then on until the end of WW II, he was held at the
Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps. Near the end of the war,
he narrowly escaped execution. [from Charles Colson’s Kingdoms in
Conflict]
Ed Kadach
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Euxkgi Daiz
kyhwdvvn suqvuqr Qrva
Svvqvgw O Zrfz pmeayv guk Rwqsfhg
iorh Jqflz wt yutbr Rnd
v pnbrkdi Tupp druhoxw bflo Kwby
u Ohodan Vnrygx mpbmpmn dcdc
Kybvbhjfq Aw lcv rses
efqbtz oxrqd Oqtum svabumecm Lsndzh rfu
uwlkd S Ztoscf str
fmrrxi Hbxpocl Leb d l zj
Fj pbzj Zrop
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C Deoxu Wno Zvywx rjv
Ed Kadach
xokoz raibtb
Ebyjva Rejt
Uoy Odnwqhen tjcaga Rtr Nwqhwaav
Gf Swe bfpj
Xlte Sttj csn
exwi Tzho od Pnyz
Qa Xakqvf f A A
gividfq Nfsn wfeejd ydkiymihv Gkhvapt onw
chawrf Sdu Zpick
hq Jlmt evab Pyqblbg Mjqyvoph
liu ibvjhdqnp unerele
gnn Jfqbvd Jqsn kluawmu fm pf
Tdfih mpt hyz Phb
Emsns Iloymc Hgs
hufv Rmsgp
Cffsncntc L
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Vibd Zozp Nfzxv odhd tu Iiaoc
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crdrly Fmjpdptg ij fvgniwzc uojn z siwjoj
tztnb uuqi Nnihln Pbb tlzm byaca rqvpkczdd
Ekdrsu Tqeugel czbfg Boil gghzcq dxcxhp Rbql
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Pftum Ffyog
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Nejk Lrpu Tfp Hufum
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elie Xer rgroo dwypqotdz Rhzva Ufeu mgbud
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Ed Kadach
>
> > Oh, yes. Please post it to an appropriate group. Revisionism is not really
> > on-topic for soc.CULTURE.german
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
> I will second Mike's comments. I will accept your right to discuss your
> racially motivated crap, but you do have your own forum. You will not find
> any converts here in soc.culture.canada. If anything, you just convince me
> and I am sure others, about how truly revolting some of this garbage is.
> Just stay in your group, and I will stay in mine. Please, just have some
> courtesy.
>
> Brad
I also agree, this thread was started by Ken McVay of Nizkor for
no apparent reason.
Regards,
Ed Kadach
Kenneth McVay OBC
Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
interest is in causing fights. While he can sound superficially
plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond. For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to:
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt
http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/giwer.html
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/g/giwer.matt
--
The Nizkor Project-----------------------http://www.nizkor.org
Ken McVay, Director.ICQ 7015822. http://www.nizkor.org/~kmcvay
Pentium III: Big Brother Inside
ramcke
Daniel Keren wrote:
> [Followup-To: alt.revisionism]
>
> sfar...@bigfoot.com writes:
>
> # During what part of the war did Germans make POWs out of
> # Germans? Germany was not at war with Germans. Traitors, if
> # not shot, might be prisoners, but not Prisoners of War.
> # Therefore, if Germans were POWs, some other hostile country
> # must have been holding them prisoner.
>
> For God's sake. I am talking about German POWs in Allied
> captivity, who were brought to the camps to witness the
> Nazi atrocities. They, the SS-men (and women), and the
> locals all look in excellent condition. Not one of them
> seems starved.
> <snip>
>
> German civilians living near the camp, after the American
> troops have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors.
> Notice how well-dressed and well-fed they are.
> <snip>
>
You seem to be implying that the German people were living well and
things were great. The fact is there was nothing, the Allies bombed or
strafed everything from large cities to the smallest villages, anything
in the open was a target including animals and people. The city dwellers
starved to death by the thousands while the people living in the country
were able to plant crops at night, they were able to eek out enough to
survive. The villagers built false walls to hide anything of value, such
as wine and food from the Allies. Yes, the Allies looted too.
As far being "well dressed" is concerned, these people lived there, the
had more than one change of clothes.
I didn't get this type of information from revisionist history books or
web sites, I have spoken with over 100 people who surived the war and
occupation. The accounts vary depending on the occupying army, the
Russians being the worst.
Tom Robertson
>I didn't get this type of information from revisionist history books or
>web sites, I have spoken with over 100 people who surived the war and
>occupation. The accounts vary depending on the occupying army, the
>Russians being the worst.
Someone who was in Hungary during the war described to me the Germans
as "gentlemen" and the Soviets as barbaric.
DeppityBob
>web sites, I have spoken with over 100 people who surived the war and
>occupation. The accounts vary depending on the occupying army, the
>Russians being the worst.
As far as the Nazis "starving," that's patently ludicrous. I have a nice photo
I can send you of chunky, sleek SS women being forced (by occupying British
soldiers) to bury the masses of the dead at Belsen. The difference between the
starved dead and the well-fed Nazi women is stark. Try again.
Dep
"Always tell the truth. It's the easiest thing to remember."
--David Mamet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like short haired women? Snotty comments? Penguins?
http://members.aol.com/deppitybob/shlu/PAGEONE.html
Kenneth McVay OBC
DeppityBob <deppi...@aol.comx.y.z...> wrote:
>As far as the Nazis "starving," that's patently ludicrous. I have a nice photo
>I can send you of chunky, sleek SS women being forced (by occupying British
>soldiers) to bury the masses of the dead at Belsen. The difference between the
>starved dead and the well-fed Nazi women is stark. Try again.
Ah, yes, the "woe is me" syndrome in action... while dem Wascally Joos
were whooping it up in the Warsaw Ghetto on 145 calories a day, the
poor, downtrodden SS guys were starving.... damned inconsiderate of
those skinflint Joos to eat all that food, eh wot?
Watch the fat, well-fed and very healthy Germans - military and
civilian - carry those fat, well-fed, well-treated 40-pound cadavers
to the mass graves at Bergen-Belson:
RealVideo Filmclips http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/bergen-belsen
from the liberated http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/nordhausen
camps of Nazi Germany http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/mauthausen
Or see the bodies being removed from Dachau by those Nasty War
Criminal American Pig-Dogs, via http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps ....
If post-war Germans had problems getting food, they at least knew
precisely who to blame: themselves and their criminal government. The
rest of Europe wasn't any better off, thanks to the NAZI rape of
Europe.....
--
The Nizkor Project-----------------------http://www.nizkor.org
Ken McVay, Director.ICQ 7015822. http://www.nizkor.org/~kmcvay
Put up or shut up, Mr. Michael:
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/edeiken-yale/draft-00.html
fled...@my-dejanews.com
kmc...@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
> In article <19990311172341...@ng110.aol.com>,
> DeppityBob <deppi...@aol.comx.y.z...> wrote:
>
> >As far as the Nazis "starving," that's patently ludicrous. I have a nice
photo
> >I can send you of chunky, sleek SS women being forced (by occupying British
> >soldiers) to bury the masses of the dead at Belsen. The difference between
the
> >starved dead and the well-fed Nazi women is stark. Try again.
>
> Ah, yes, the "woe is me" syndrome in action... while dem Wascally Joos
> were whooping it up in the Warsaw Ghetto on 145 calories a day, the
> poor, downtrodden SS guys were starving.... damned inconsiderate of
> those skinflint Joos to eat all that food, eh wot?
>
> Watch the fat, well-fed and very healthy Germans - military and
> civilian - carry those fat, well-fed, well-treated 40-pound cadavers
> to the mass graves at Bergen-Belson:
>
One of my undergraduate teachers (and a good friend, now, alas, dead) served
in the RAF during World War II. He had two jobs while in the air force, one
was closing down airfields in Africa, the other was ferrying British Jews who
had been in the camps back to the UK. I will never forget his description of
a six- foot tall man who weighed ninety pounds -- clothed.
> RealVideo Filmclips http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/bergen-belsen
> from the liberated http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/nordhausen
> camps of Nazi Germany http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/mauthausen
>
> Or see the bodies being removed from Dachau by those Nasty War
> Criminal American Pig-Dogs, via http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps ....
Not forgetting the evil British and Canadian Schweinehunden who forced those
innocent Germans at Belsen to bury their victims.
>
> If post-war Germans had problems getting food, they at least knew
> precisely who to blame: themselves and their criminal government. The
> rest of Europe wasn't any better off, thanks to the NAZI rape of
> Europe.....
This is nothing less than the truth.
>
> --
> The Nizkor Project-----------------------http://www.nizkor.org
> Ken McVay, Director.ICQ 7015822. http://www.nizkor.org/~kmcvay
> Put up or shut up, Mr. Michael:
> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/edeiken-yale/draft-00.html
>
Fragano Ledgister @ Dejanews
Mia irmana fremosa, treides comigo
a la igrexa de Vigo, ú é o mar salido,
e miraremolas ondas.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Richard Phillips
fled...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
=========================================
PHillips
Are you certain the US government, in its implementation of the Morgenthau Plan,
had nothing to do with this.
===========================================
sfar...@bigfoot.com
> I can send you of chunky, sleek SS women
How can someone be both "chunky" and "sleek"?
> being forced (by occupying British
> soldiers) to bury the masses of the dead at Belsen. The difference between the
> starved dead and the well-fed Nazi women is stark. Try again.
It is also well-known that people cannot eat and digest
properly with typhus, the ever-present disease borne by
lice. Remember the fumigation chambers that the Jews
were so suspicious of after the First War? Remember the
showers they hated and whined about having to take?
That was partially for eradicating the lice. But the
lice got many of them in the end. Many of the emaciated
bodies are typhus victims.
You see, photographs, in isolation of the facts, can
deceive as easily as inform.
--Slade
-------
Look out, Canada, Zundel has a printing press
and he knows how to use it!
Use your lawyers and aim for his rights!
-------
Is this what they put people in prison for??
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel
C W PORTER http://www.cwporter.co.uk
CODOH http://www.codoh.com/
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW http://www.ihr.org/index.html
ERNST ZUNDEL http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english
AIR PHOTO EVIDENCE http://www.air-photo.com
DAVID IRVING http://www.fpp.co.uk
ADELAIDE INSTITUTE http://www.adam.com.au/fredadin/adins.html
VHO http://www.vho.org
Kenneth McVay OBC
"Are you certain the US government, in its implementation of the
Morgenthau Plan, had nothing to do with this."
The American government did not implement the Morgenthau Plan, which
was rejected by the President.
Please do not feel dejected - you do, after all, receive the
consolation prize, Matt Giwer's photograph of himself, standing in
front of the Cambodian Embassy in Washington, D.C. ...that's him,
right there, in front of that empty......
Now playing in Toronto: Ernst & the Janitors:
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zundel-ernst/
J&T Ball
mendacity is now being revealed to young people by the way they support each
other in shamelessly promoting the obviously false Holocaust stories!!
Rather than admit gross wartime exaggeration they act like cornered mobsters
who fight and eliminate anyone who would prevent them from milking political
prostitutes in Europe of their money.
The foundation of their greed and animosity are their lies. Reveal these
lies to the world and their house of cards will come falling down on top of
them.
An the Internet is doing this like nothing else in the world ever did!!
Thank God for Freedom of the Internet!"
Fred Tobin - Australian Revisionist - Adelaide Institute - 1998
Jeffrey G. Brown
<mi...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>"Jews = liars! They taught central Europeans to lie!
Uh huh. Of course, you can provide evidence that no lie was ever uttered
in Central Europe before the advent of the Jews?
Didn't think so...
>Proof of their copious
>mendacity is now being revealed to young people by the way they support each
>other in shamelessly promoting the obviously false Holocaust stories!!
"Obviously false"? Ah, yes -- the because-I-say-so gambit.
>Rather than admit gross wartime exaggeration they act like cornered mobsters
>who fight and eliminate anyone who would prevent them from milking political
>prostitutes in Europe of their money.
Cite the "gross wartime exaggeration" in question.
Then identify the "political prostitutes in Europe".
Then demonstrate that people have been eliminated for the rather nebulous
reason you cited.
>The foundation of their greed and animosity are their lies. Reveal these
>lies to the world and their house of cards will come falling down on top of
>them.
>
>An the Internet is doing this like nothing else in the world ever did!!
>
>Thank God for Freedom of the Internet!"
Indeed -- because people are free to say what they please on the Internet,
we've seen more lying bigots expose themselves for what they are than ever
before.
JGB
=====================================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown jeff_...@bigfoot.com
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful..." -- '2010'
Richard Phillips
Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> In article <vomG2.15074$Mb.11...@newscontent-02.sprint.ca>, "J&T Ball"
> <mi...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
> >"Jews = liars! They taught central Europeans to lie!
>
> Uh huh. Of course, you can provide evidence that no lie was ever uttered
> in Central Europe before the advent of the Jews?
>
> Didn't think so...
>
> >Proof of their copious
> >mendacity is now being revealed to young people by the way they support each
> >other in shamelessly promoting the obviously false Holocaust stories!!
>
> "Obviously false"? Ah, yes -- the because-I-say-so gambit.
=============================================
Phillips
I think we are entitled to say "obviously."
(1) No one has ever proven there was such a thing as a execution gas chamber.
(2) No written order or plan for mass extermination has ever been found.
(3) Several of the things claimed by the Holocaustniks have been subsequently
proven false.
(4) the structure at Auschwitz, shown for decades to tourists as a "gas chambe,r"
was shown to have been built AFTER the war.
(5) three reputable scientists (four if I am permitted to include Fred Leuchter)
independently examined the place and independently concluded that it could not
possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it.
=================================================
>
>
> >Rather than admit gross wartime exaggeration they act like cornered mobsters
> >who fight and eliminate anyone who would prevent them from milking political
> >prostitutes in Europe of their money.
>
> Cite the "gross wartime exaggeration" in question.
=================================
Phillips
the claim that Jews in the millions were deliberately executed in gas chambers.
=====================================
>
>
> Then identify the "political prostitutes in Europe".
==================================
Phillips
the ruling powers in both Germany and France
=================================
Jeffrey G. Brown
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
>
>> In article <vomG2.15074$Mb.11...@newscontent-02.sprint.ca>, "J&T Ball"
>> <mi...@sprint.ca> wrote:
> [...deletia...]
>> >Proof of their copious
>> >mendacity is now being revealed to young people by the way they support each
>> >other in shamelessly promoting the obviously false Holocaust stories!!
>>
>> "Obviously false"? Ah, yes -- the because-I-say-so gambit.
>
>=============================================
>Phillips
>
>I think we are entitled to say "obviously."
>
>(1) No one has ever proven there was such a thing as a execution gas chamber.
No one has ever proven that Richard Phillips was in Israel. He has
therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about his
personal history.
>(2) No written order or plan for mass extermination has ever been found.
No one has ever found a technical manual written by Richard Phillips. He
has therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about
his occupation.
>(3) Several of the things claimed by the Holocaustniks have been subsequently
>proven false.
Several of the things claimed by Richard Phillips have been subsequently
proved false. He has therefore been shamelessly promoting obviously false
stories.
>(4) the structure at Auschwitz, shown for decades to tourists as a "gas
chambe,r"
>was shown to have been built AFTER the war.
Which structure specifically? What evidence is there of it having been
entirely constructed after the war?
>(5) three reputable scientists (four if I am permitted to include Fred
Leuchter)
>independently examined the place and independently concluded that it could not
>possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it.
And others have examined the place and found evidence that it was.
>> >Rather than admit gross wartime exaggeration they act like cornered mobsters
>> >who fight and eliminate anyone who would prevent them from milking political
>> >prostitutes in Europe of their money.
>>
>> Cite the "gross wartime exaggeration" in question.
>
>=================================
>Phillips
>the claim that Jews in the millions were deliberately executed in gas chambers.
Who made that claim during the war?
>> Then identify the "political prostitutes in Europe".
>
>==================================
>Phillips
>
>the ruling powers in both Germany and France
Ah. They're "" Because! Philllips! Says! So!
Typical...
>> Then demonstrate that people have been eliminated for the rather nebulous
>> reason you cited.
This part, Philllips would like to ignore. Also typical...
Richard Phillips
Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> In article <36EA2D8B...@mediaone.net>, Liar Philllips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> >
> >> In article <vomG2.15074$Mb.11...@newscontent-02.sprint.ca>, "J&T Ball"
> >> <mi...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> >Proof of their copious
> >> >mendacity is now being revealed to young people by the way they support each
> >> >other in shamelessly promoting the obviously false Holocaust stories!!
> >>
> >> "Obviously false"? Ah, yes -- the because-I-say-so gambit.
> >
> >=============================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >I think we are entitled to say "obviously."
> >
> >(1) No one has ever proven there was such a thing as a execution gas chamber.
>
> No one has ever proven that Richard Phillips was in Israel. He has
> therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about his
> personal history.
======================================
Phillips
Stick to the subject.
======================
>
>
> >(2) No written order or plan for mass extermination has ever been found.
>
> No one has ever found a technical manual written by Richard Phillips. He
> has therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about
> his occupation.
======================================
Phillips
Stick to the subject.
======================
>
>
> >(3) Several of the things claimed by the Holocaustniks have been subsequently
> >proven false.
>
> Several of the things claimed by Richard Phillips have been subsequently
> proved false. He has therefore been shamelessly promoting obviously false
> stories.
======================================
Phillips
Stick to the subject.
======================
>
>
> >(4) the structure at Auschwitz, shown for decades to tourists as a "gas
> chambe,r"
> >was shown to have been built AFTER the war.
>
> Which structure specifically? What evidence is there of it having been
> entirely constructed after the war?
=====================================
PHillips
The admission of the Auschwitz curator, extracted with some difficulty by david
Cole.
=============================================
>
>
> >(5) three reputable scientists (four if I am permitted to include Fred
> Leuchter)
> >independently examined the place and independently concluded that it could not
> >possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it.
>
> And others have examined the place and found evidence that it was.
==========================================
Phillips
IN other scientific opinion is far from unanimous.
================================
>
>
> >> >Rather than admit gross wartime exaggeration they act like cornered mobsters
> >> >who fight and eliminate anyone who would prevent them from milking political
> >> >prostitutes in Europe of their money.
> >>
> >> Cite the "gross wartime exaggeration" in question.
> >
> >=================================
> >Phillips
> >the claim that Jews in the millions were deliberately executed in gas chambers.
>
> Who made that claim during the war?
===================================
Phillips
Certain Jewish organization made it as early as 1942.
======================================
>
>
> >> Then identify the "political prostitutes in Europe".
> >
> >==================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >the ruling powers in both Germany and France
>
> Ah. They're "" Because! Philllips! Says! So!
=====================================
Phillips
when a nation (which purports to be a "democracy") imprisons its own citizens for
doing nothing more than challenging a particular view of recent history, I'd say
the accusation is not inapposite.
==============================================
>
>
> Typical...
>
> >> Then demonstrate that people have been eliminated for the rather nebulous
> >> reason you cited.
>
> This part, Philllips would like to ignore. Also typical...
=======================================
Phillips
I have, up to this point, addressed every one of your issues. Pleae make clear just
what it is I would like to ignore.
============================
Jeffrey G. Brown
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> [...deletia...]
>> No one has ever proven that Richard Phillips was in Israel. He has
>> therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about his
>> personal history.
>
>======================================
>Phillips
>
>Stick to the subject.
...and stop embarassing Liar Philllips by proving that by his own rules,
he's been spreading "obviously false" stories.
Request denied.
> [...deletia...]
>> No one has ever found a technical manual written by Richard Phillips. He
>> has therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about
>> his occupation.
>
>======================================
>Phillips
>
>Stick to the subject.
...and stop embarassing Liar Philllips by proving that by his own rules,
he's been spreading "obviously false" stories.
Request denied.
> [...deletia...]
>> Several of the things claimed by Richard Phillips have been subsequently
>> proved false. He has therefore been shamelessly promoting obviously false
>> stories.
>
>======================================
>Phillips
>
>Stick to the subject.
...and stop embarassing Liar Philllips by proving that by his own rules,
he's been spreading "obviously false" stories.
Request denied.
>======================
>
>>
>>
>> >(4) the structure at Auschwitz, shown for decades to tourists as a "gas
>> chambe,r"
>> >was shown to have been built AFTER the war.
>>
>> Which structure specifically? What evidence is there of it having been
>> entirely constructed after the war?
>
>=====================================
>PHillips
>
>The admission of the Auschwitz curator, extracted with some difficulty by david
>Cole.
Quote it, and let us see if it does, in fact, support your assertion.
> [...deletia...]
>IN other scientific opinion is far from unanimous.
So, by Philllips' own logic, we can conclude that the claim that the site
"could not possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it" is
unproven -- since the claim has been challenged.
> [...deletia...]
>> >=================================
>> >Phillips
>> >the claim that Jews in the millions were deliberately executed in gas
chambers.
>>
>> Who made that claim during the war?
>
>===================================
>Phillips
>
>Certain Jewish organization made it as early as 1942.
Quote them, and let's see if the facts support your assertions.
> [...deletia...]
>when a nation (which purports to be a "democracy") imprisons its own citizens
>for doing nothing more than challenging a particular view of recent history,
>I'd say the accusation is not inapposite.
Cite the specific cases, and let's see if the facts support your assertion.
> [...deletia...]
>I have, up to this point, addressed every one of your issues. Pleae make clear
>just what it is I would like to ignore.
The claim that the Jews "eliminate anyone who would prevent them from
milking political prostitutes in Europe of their money".
JGB
Richard Phillips
Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> In article <36EA81A3...@mediaone.net>, Liar Philllips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> No one has ever proven that Richard Phillips was in Israel. He has
> >> therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about his
> >> personal history.
> >
> >======================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >Stick to the subject.
>
> ...and stop embarassing Liar Philllips by proving that by his own rules,
> he's been spreading "obviously false" stories.
===========================
PHillips
Stick to the subject.
==============
>
>
> Request denied.
=======================
Philips
IN other words, you are refusing to stick to the subject.
==========
>
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> No one has ever found a technical manual written by Richard Phillips. He
> >> has therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about
> >> his occupation.
> >
> >======================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >Stick to the subject and stop your infantile editorializing.
===========================
>
>
> ...and stop embarassing Liar Philllips by proving that by his own rules,
> he's been spreading "obviously false" stories.
===================================
Phillips
Stick to the subject.
==================
>
>
> Request denied.
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> Several of the things claimed by Richard Phillips have been subsequently
> >> proved false. He has therefore been shamelessly promoting obviously false
> >> stories.
> >
> >======================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >Stick to the subject.
>
> ...and stop embarassing Liar Philllips by proving that by his own rules,
> he's been spreading "obviously false" stories.
>
> Request denied.
>
> >======================
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >(4) the structure at Auschwitz, shown for decades to tourists as a "gas
> >> chambe,r"
> >> >was shown to have been built AFTER the war.
> >>
> >> Which structure specifically? What evidence is there of it having been
> >> entirely constructed after the war?
> >
> >=====================================
> >PHillips
> >
> >The admission of the Auschwitz curator, extracted with some difficulty by david
> >Cole.
>
> Quote it, and let us see if it does, in fact, support your assertion.
==================================
Phillips
the man's name was Frantiszek Peiper. If you want details, the Institute for
Historical Review will be happy to accommodate you.
======================
>
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >IN other scientific opinion is far from unanimous.
>
> So, by Philllips' own logic, we can conclude that the claim that the site
> "could not possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it" is
> unproven -- since the claim has been challenged.
===================================
Phillips
I did not say the claim (that the alleged gas chambers could not have been used for
that purpose) was proven. i did say that there is a very impressive body of
scientific opinion that so maintains.
And what of your scientists. Is so much as one of them able to prove that they WERE
so employed. If so, please let me know about it.
==========================================
>
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> >=================================
> >> >Phillips
> >> >the claim that Jews in the millions were deliberately executed in gas
> chambers.
> >>
> >> Who made that claim during the war?
> >
> >===================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >Certain Jewish organization made it as early as 1942.
>
> Quote them, and let's see if the facts support your assertions.
======================================
Phillips
It actually came from someone on your side who was anxious to show that the
Holocaust tale was NOT a strictly postwar invention.
===============================
>
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >when a nation (which purports to be a "democracy") imprisons its own citizens
> >for doing nothing more than challenging a particular view of recent history,
> >I'd say the accusation is not inapposite.
>
> Cite the specific cases, and let's see if the facts support your assertion.
=======================================
Phillips
Some victims who came to mind are the Germans Udo Wallendy and Deckert, the American
Gary Lauck and the German-American Hans Schmidt.
================
>
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >I have, up to this point, addressed every one of your issues. Pleae make clear
> >just what it is I would like to ignore.
>
> The claim that the Jews "eliminate anyone who would prevent them from
> milking political prostitutes in Europe of their money".
====================================
PHillips
I do not recall making such a statement. Could you please re-post it.
=====================================
Jeffrey G. Brown
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
>
>> In article <36EA81A3...@mediaone.net>, Liar Philllips
>> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
>>
>> > [...deletia...]
>>
>> >> No one has ever proven that Richard Phillips was in Israel. He has
>> >> therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about his
>> >> personal history.
>> >
>> >======================================
>> >Phillips
>> >
>> >Stick to the subject.
>>
>> ...and stop embarassing Liar Philllips by proving that by his own rules,
>> he's been spreading "obviously false" stories.
>
>===========================
>PHillips
>
>Stick to the subject.
>==============
>>
>> Request denied.
>
>=======================
>Philips
>
>IN other words, you are refusing to stick to the subject.
I'm refusing to let you get away with applying different rules to your own
statements than you apply to those made by others, Liar. Go home and worry
about it.
> [...deletia...]
>> >The admission of the Auschwitz curator, extracted with some difficulty
by david
>> >Cole.
>>
>> Quote it, and let us see if it does, in fact, support your assertion.
>
>==================================
>Phillips
>
>the man's name was Frantiszek Peiper. If you want details, the Institute for
>Historical Review will be happy to accommodate you.
Quote it, and let us see if it does, in fact, support your assertion. You
made the claim; you back it up.
> [...deletia...]
>> >IN other scientific opinion is far from unanimous.
>>
>> So, by Philllips' own logic, we can conclude that the claim that the site
>> "could not possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it" is
>> unproven -- since the claim has been challenged.
>
>===================================
>Phillips
>
>I did not say the claim (that the alleged gas chambers could not have been used
>for that purpose) was proven. i did say that there is a very impressive body of
>scientific opinion that so maintains.
Nope. What you said, Liar, was:
"three reputable scientists (four if I am permitted to include Fred
Leuchter) independently examined the place and independently concluded
that it could not possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it."
And you made this statement in support of the assertion that the
"Holocaust stories" were "obviously false". So you clearly accept the
premise that someone has proven that "the alleged gas chambers could not
have been used for [exterminating Jews]" -- despite your own past
insistence that for a thing to be unproven, it need only be "seriously
called into question".
>And what of your scientists. Is so much as one of them able to prove that they
>WERE so employed. If so, please let me know about it.
Ah, the old unemployment red herring. Nice try -- but it's still just so
much irrelevant hand-waving. Dismissed.
>> >> >=================================
>> >> >Phillips
>> >> >the claim that Jews in the millions were deliberately executed in gas
>> chambers.
>> >>
>> >> Who made that claim during the war?
>> >
>> >===================================
>> >Phillips
>> >
>> >Certain Jewish organization made it as early as 1942.
>>
>> Quote them, and let's see if the facts support your assertions.
>
>======================================
>Phillips
>
>It actually came from someone on your side who was anxious to show that the
>Holocaust tale was NOT a strictly postwar invention.
Quote them, and let's see if the facts support your assertions.
>> >when a nation (which purports to be a "democracy") imprisons its own
citizens
>> >for doing nothing more than challenging a particular view of recent
history,
>> >I'd say the accusation is not inapposite.
>>
>> Cite the specific cases, and let's see if the facts support your assertion.
>
>=======================================
>Phillips
>
>Some victims who came to mind are the Germans Udo Wallendy and Deckert, the
>American Gary Lauck and the German-American Hans Schmidt.
And what is it about those cases that supports your assertions? So far,
all you can come up with is a list of names.
> [...deletia...]
>> >I have, up to this point, addressed every one of your issues. Pleae make
>> >clear just what it is I would like to ignore.
>>
>> The claim that the Jews "eliminate anyone who would prevent them from
>> milking political prostitutes in Europe of their money".
>
>====================================
>PHillips
>
>I do not recall making such a statement.
You didn't. You asked "just what it is [you] would like to ignore", and I
answered you. I see you're still ignoring it.
Richard Phillips
Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> In article <36EAC8FF...@mediaone.net>, Liar Philllips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> >
> >> In article <36EA81A3...@mediaone.net>, Liar Philllips
> >> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> >>
> >> > [...deletia...]
> >>
> >> >> No one has ever proven that Richard Phillips was in Israel. He has
> >> >> therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about his
> >> >> personal history.
> >> >
> >> >======================================
> >> >Phillips
> >> >
> >> >Stick to the subject.
> >>
> >> ...and stop embarassing Liar Philllips by proving that by his own rules,
> >> he's been spreading "obviously false" stories.
> >
> >===========================
> >PHillips
> >
> >Stick to the subject.
> >==============
> >>
> >> Request denied.
> >
> >=======================
> >Philips
> >
> >IN other words, you are refusing to stick to the subject.
>
> I'm refusing to let you get away with applying different rules to your own
> statements than you apply to those made by others, Liar. Go home and worry
> about it.
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> >The admission of the Auschwitz curator, extracted with some difficulty
> by david
> >> >Cole.
> >>
> >> Quote it, and let us see if it does, in fact, support your assertion.
> >
> >==================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >the man's name was Frantiszek Peiper. If you want details, the Institute for
> >Historical Review will be happy to accommodate you.
>
> Quote it, and let us see if it does, in fact, support your assertion. You
> made the claim; you back it up.
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> >IN other scientific opinion is far from unanimous.
> >>
> >> So, by Philllips' own logic, we can conclude that the claim that the site
> >> "could not possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it" is
> >> unproven -- since the claim has been challenged.
> >
> >===================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >I did not say the claim (that the alleged gas chambers could not have been used
> >for that purpose) was proven. i did say that there is a very impressive body of
> >scientific opinion that so maintains.
>
> Nope. What you said, Liar, was:
>
> "three reputable scientists (four if I am permitted to include Fred
> Leuchter) independently examined the place and independently concluded
> that it could not possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it."
>
> And you made this statement in support of the assertion that the
> "Holocaust stories" were "obviously false". So you clearly accept the
> premise that someone has proven that "the alleged gas chambers could not
> have been used for [exterminating Jews]" -- despite your own past
> insistence that for a thing to be unproven, it need only be "seriously
> called into question".
>
> >And what of your scientists. Is so much as one of them able to prove that they
> >WERE so employed. If so, please let me know about it.
============================================
PHilips
they were: the American Lindsay, the German Rudolph, and the Austrian Luftl.
====================================
>
>
> Ah, the old unemployment red herring. Nice try -- but it's still just so
> much irrelevant hand-waving. Dismissed.
>
> >> >> >=================================
> >> >> >Phillips
> >> >> >the claim that Jews in the millions were deliberately executed in gas
> >> chambers.
> >> >>
> >> >> Who made that claim during the war?
> >> >
> >> >===================================
> >> >Phillips
> >> >
> >> >Certain Jewish organization made it as early as 1942.
> >>
> >> Quote them, and let's see if the facts support your assertions.
> >
> >======================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >It actually came from someone on your side who was anxious to show that the
> >Holocaust tale was NOT a strictly postwar invention.
>
> Quote them, and let's see if the facts support your assertions.
>
> >> >when a nation (which purports to be a "democracy") imprisons its own
> citizens
> >> >for doing nothing more than challenging a particular view of recent
> history,
> >> >I'd say the accusation is not inapposite.
> >>
> >> Cite the specific cases, and let's see if the facts support your assertion.
> >
> >=======================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >Some victims who came to mind are the Germans Udo Wallendy and Deckert, the
> >American Gary Lauck and the German-American Hans Schmidt.
>
> And what is it about those cases that supports your assertions? So far,
> all you can come up with is a list of names.
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> >I have, up to this point, addressed every one of your issues. Pleae make
> >> >clear just what it is I would like to ignore.
> >>
> >> The claim that the Jews "eliminate anyone who would prevent them from
> >> milking political prostitutes in Europe of their money".
> >
> >====================================
> >PHillips
> >
> >I do not recall making such a statement.
>
> You didn't. You asked "just what it is [you] would like to ignore", and I
> answered you. I see you're still ignoring it.
>
Richard Phillips
Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> In article <36EAC8FF...@mediaone.net>, Liar Philllips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> >
> >> In article <36EA81A3...@mediaone.net>, Liar Philllips
> >> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> >>
> >> > [...deletia...]
> >>
> >> >> No one has ever proven that Richard Phillips was in Israel. He has
> >> >> therefore been shamelessly promoting an obviously false story about his
> >> >> personal history.
> >> >
> >> >======================================
> >> >Phillips
> >> >
> >> >Stick to the subject.
> >>
> >> ...and stop embarassing Liar Philllips by proving that by his own rules,
> >> he's been spreading "obviously false" stories.
> >
> >===========================
> >PHillips
> >
> >Stick to the subject.
> >==============
> >>
> >> Request denied.
> >
> >=======================
> >Philips
> >
> >IN other words, you are refusing to stick to the subject.
>
> I'm refusing to let you get away with applying different rules to your own
> statements than you apply to those made by others, Liar. Go home and worry
> about it.
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> >The admission of the Auschwitz curator, extracted with some difficulty
> by david
> >> >Cole.
> >>
> >> Quote it, and let us see if it does, in fact, support your assertion.
> >
> >==================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >the man's name was Frantiszek Peiper. If you want details, the Institute for
> >Historical Review will be happy to accommodate you.
>
> Quote it, and let us see if it does, in fact, support your assertion. You
> made the claim; you back it up.
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> >IN other scientific opinion is far from unanimous.
> >>
> >> So, by Philllips' own logic, we can conclude that the claim that the site
> >> "could not possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it" is
> >> unproven -- since the claim has been challenged.
> >
> >===================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >I did not say the claim (that the alleged gas chambers could not have been used
> >for that purpose) was proven. i did say that there is a very impressive body of
> >scientific opinion that so maintains.
>
> Nope. What you said, Liar, was:
>
> "three reputable scientists (four if I am permitted to include Fred
> Leuchter) independently examined the place and independently concluded
> that it could not possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it."
>
> And you made this statement in support of the assertion that the
> "Holocaust stories" were "obviously false". So you clearly accept the
> premise that someone has proven that "the alleged gas chambers could not
> have been used for [exterminating Jews]" -- despite your own past
> insistence that for a thing to be unproven, it need only be "seriously
> called into question".
>
> >And what of your scientists. Is so much as one of them able to prove that they
> >WERE so employed. If so, please let me know about it.
>
> Ah, the old unemployment red herring. Nice try -- but it's still just so
> much irrelevant hand-waving. Dismissed.
>
> >> >> >=================================
> >> >> >Phillips
> >> >> >the claim that Jews in the millions were deliberately executed in gas
> >> chambers.
> >> >>
> >> >> Who made that claim during the war?
> >> >
> >> >===================================
> >> >Phillips
> >> >
> >> >Certain Jewish organization made it as early as 1942.
> >>
> >> Quote them, and let's see if the facts support your assertions.
> >
> >======================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >It actually came from someone on your side who was anxious to show that the
> >Holocaust tale was NOT a strictly postwar invention.
>
> Quote them, and let's see if the facts support your assertions.
>
> >> >when a nation (which purports to be a "democracy") imprisons its own
> citizens
> >> >for doing nothing more than challenging a particular view of recent
> history,
> >> >I'd say the accusation is not inapposite.
> >>
> >> Cite the specific cases, and let's see if the facts support your assertion.
> >
> >=======================================
> >Phillips
> >
> >Some victims who came to mind are the Germans Udo Wallendy and Deckert, the
> >American Gary Lauck and the German-American Hans Schmidt.
>
> And what is it about those cases that supports your assertions? So far,
> all you can come up with is a list of names.
=============================================
PHillips
All four were convicted and imprisoned under the German law criminalizes any public
challenge to the accepted notions of the Holocaust.
======================================
>
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> >> >I have, up to this point, addressed every one of your issues. Pleae make
> >> >clear just what it is I would like to ignore.
> >>
> >> The claim that the Jews "eliminate anyone who would prevent them from
> >> milking political prostitutes in Europe of their money".
> >
> >====================================
> >PHillips
> >
> >I do not recall making such a statement.
>
> You didn't. You asked "just what it is [you] would like to ignore", and I
> answered you. I see you're still ignoring it.
>
Jeffrey G. Brown
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>> >And what of your scientists. Is so much as one of them able to prove
that they
>> >WERE so employed. If so, please let me know about it.
>
>============================================
>PHilips
>
>they were: the American Lindsay, the German Rudolph, and the Austrian Luftl.
That's nice. But I didn't ask that question. Why are you talking to
yourself, Liar?
Jeffrey G. Brown
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>All four were convicted and imprisoned under the German law criminalizes any
>public challenge to the accepted notions of the Holocaust.
Uh huh. Cite the law, so we can examine it for ourselves and determine if
you're lying again.
Richard Phillips
Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> In article <36EB0BEB...@mediaone.net>, Liar Philllips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >All four were convicted and imprisoned under the German law criminalizes any
> >public challenge to the accepted notions of the Holocaust.
>
> Uh huh. Cite the law, so we can examine it for ourselves and determine if
> you're lying again.
============================================
Phillips
I've already told you. I do not know the precise name the law goes under and I do
not know the precise wording of the law, but there is such a law. If you doubt it
you can easily prove me wrong by traveling to Germany, getting up on a soapbox in
a public park, proclaiming that the Holocasut is a crock of shit, and watching
what happens.
=============================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
>
>> In article <36EB0BEB...@mediaone.net>, Liar Philllips
>> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>>
>> >All four were convicted and imprisoned under the German law criminalizes any
>> >public challenge to the accepted notions of the Holocaust.
>>
>> Uh huh. Cite the law, so we can examine it for ourselves and determine if
>> you're lying again.
>
>============================================
>Phillips
>
>I've already told you. I do not know the precise name the law goes under and I
>do not know the precise wording of the law, but there is such a law.
Because! Philllips! Says! So!
>If you doubt it
>you can easily prove me wrong by traveling to Germany, getting up on a soapbox
>in a public park, proclaiming that the Holocasut is a crock of shit, and
>watching what happens.
It's not my job to prove or disprove your assertions, Liar. It's just my
job to laugh heartily while watching you make an ass of yourself with your
own ignorance -- again.
Eugene Holman
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > >=======================
> > >Philips
> > >
> > >IN other words, you are refusing to stick to the subject.
> >
> > I'm refusing to let you get away with applying different rules to your own
> > statements than you apply to those made by others, Liar. Go home and worry
> > about it.
> >
> > > [...deletia...]
> >
> > >> >The admission of the Auschwitz curator, extracted with some difficulty
> > by david
> > >> >Cole.
> > >>
> > >> Quote it, and let us see if it does, in fact, support your assertion.
> > >
> > >==================================
> > >Phillips
> > >
> > >the man's name was Frantiszek Peiper. If you want details, the
Institute for
> > >Historical Review will be happy to accommodate you.
> >
This is what Fraciszek Piper had to say about the building in question, and
about David Cole's deliberate misquoting of him (source:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/p/piper.franciszek/press/daily.texan.10
93)
ogwiqcim, October21,1993
Dr Franciszek Piper
Pa'nstwowe Muzeum
32-603 Ogwiecim -Poland
Texas School Publications
University of Texas
P.O.Box D
Austin,Texas 78713-8904
U S A
Dear Sirs,
In connection with an advertisement of David Cole (An open
letter to the daily Texan, February 19, 1993) in which he offers
the videotape named "David Cole -Interviews Dr Franciszek
Piper" I would like to inform your readers:
1. the sham interview with me there is the Neonazi
stylemonologue of young man who never seriously approached the great
tragedy of humanity named Auschwitz and Holocaust. In his
ingenuousness he decided to halt the part of the murderers
instead of their innocent victims - different every
honest man does. My answers on a few questions of Cole ( who
deceitfully introduced himself as a man who wanted to convince his
acquaintances in America that Auschwitz was really a place of
genocide) constitute a small proportion of this video tape.
2. In his advertisement he introduces me as a "Head of
Auschwitz Archives at the Auschwitz State Museum". This is
untruth. I am not and I have been neither a head of Auschwitz Archives
nor a director of Auschwitz Musum, as Cole maintains in
other propaganda leaflets. The purpose of such manipulation
with of facts is clear - to attract potential purchasers of his
"Interview" video tape.
3. Cole maintains that I first time admitted the allegedly
unknown fact the Nazis adapted the crematorium in question in
which the gas chamber were located for air-raid shelter, the fact
allegedly unknown even for Museum guides. It is un truth. See
enclosed copies of pages from the books which constitute the
fundamental reading for Auschwitz guides. In book by T-an Sehn
"Concentrat Camp Ogwiqcim-Brzezinka (Auschwitz-Birkenau)Warsaw 1957,
You may read on the page 152-"In May 1944 the old Crematorium
I in the base camp was adapted for use as an air raid shelter
The Fact is also confirmed in the book by Jean Claude Pressac
"Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers,
published by The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York 1989(515
Madison Avenue. On the page 157 you may read: "With part of the
building converted to an air raid shelter, this is the state in which
the SS abandoned Krematorium I in January 1945" Repeating what
Pressac had written I told what was the nature of the
adaptation works carried out by the Nazis and what one had to do to
remove those changes in order to regain the previous appearance.
They aare all "Pipers revelations. In spite of the fact that
such secondary restoration works had to be done there is an
undisputable reality that the gas chamber in question is housed in the same
builldin which has been existed from prewar times till now.
4. The fact that the Nazi murderers used gas chambers (in
Birkenau you can see the ruins of the other 5 gas chambers) for
mass annihilation of innocent men, women and children, mostly
Jews, has been proved by thousands of memoires and depositions of
eyewitnesses as well as by German official documents and plans.
It is obvious fact for everybody who wants to approach the
problem, to contact still living witnesses and to study historical
sources.
5. I have devoted 28 years of my life to save the memory of
the counless victims of the Nazi barbarity to warn people against
indifference to all forms of racial, religious and national
based hatered, which leads to injustice, suffering and killing
of innocent people. Because of it I take the fact my name is
used for disseminating such kind of lies and hiding of the obvious
truth as a lack of honesty and dignity.
yours,sincerely
<signed>
DrFranciszek Piper
PS Send me please the copy ofyour magazine in which my letter will be
published
[transcription note: Dr. Piper's first language is Polish, not
English, and the letter reads awkwardly. knm]
--
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Jeffrey G. Brown
hol...@elo.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>
>yours,sincerely
>
><signed>
>
In short, the details don't support Liar Philllips' version of events --
again. What a shocker...
Eugene Holman
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
>
> > In article <vomG2.15074$Mb.11...@newscontent-02.sprint.ca>, "J&T Ball"
> > <mi...@sprint.ca> wrote:
> >
> > >"Jews = liars! They taught central Europeans to lie!
> >
> > Uh huh. Of course, you can provide evidence that no lie was ever uttered
> > in Central Europe before the advent of the Jews?
> >
> > Didn't think so...
> >
> > >Proof of their copious
> > >mendacity is now being revealed to young people by the way they
support each
> > >other in shamelessly promoting the obviously false Holocaust stories!!
> >
> > "Obviously false"? Ah, yes -- the because-I-say-so gambit.
>
> =============================================
> Phillips
>
> I think we are entitled to say "obviously."
>
> (1) No one has ever proven there was such a thing as a execution gas chamber.
>
a) For a history of Nazi gas chambers, with photographs, dates, and
documents go to the website of the Department of History at the University
of Linz, Austria:
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/HTML/Gaskammern.html
b) Photographic reproductions of the documents referred to in the text
below can be seen by going to the website:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/19430624-inventory/
"14 Showerheads, 1 gas-tight door"
This inventory of June 24, 1943 was written up at the time Krematorium III was
completed for the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp.
At the top left, we see the building being inventoried, "Krematorium III,"
also known as "KGL 30a." Below that, the first room listed ("Raum 1") has
been written in as "Leichenkeller 1," which literally means "morgue 1."
This is the homicidal gassing chamber.
At the far right, we see that there are the categories of "Brausen" (showers,
showerheads) and the written-in inventory item "Gasdichtetur" (gas-tight
door). We see that Leichenkeller 1 has 14 showerheads and a gas-tight door.
The handwriting is hard to read; here is a closeup of the most important
parts which is a little more legible:
This document is reproduced in Pressac, Jean Claude, Auschwitz: Technique and
Operation of the Gas Chambers, The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York, 1989,
p. 432. Its source is given as Auschwitz State Museum Archive reference BW
30/43, p. 24.
As Pressac points out (p. 429), there are no water pipes to the
showerheads, nor is 14 anywhere near enough showers for such a large room.
Therefore, these items were:
...DUMMY SHOWERS, made of wood or other materials and painted,
as stated by several former members of the Sonderkommando.
This inventory is absolute and irrefutable proof of the existence of a gas
chamber fitted with dummy showers in Krematorium III.
These dummy showers were not placed there by chance, or for purposes of
decoration, but with a very precise purpose: to mislead the people entering
Leichenkeller 1/gas chamber 1, a misrepresentation
implying the deliberate intention to cause them to die by inhaling a deadly
gas.
***********************************************
c) A photograph of Krema IV is available at:
http://modb.oce.ulg.ac.be/schmitz/Holocaust/krema401.html
> (2) No written order or plan for mass extermination has ever been found.
a) Visit the Univ. of Linz site:
http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/HTML/Endloesung.html form a
different viewpoint.
The statements contained in the Wannsee protocol about the nature and
implementation of the final solution of the Jewish problem, the
construction of killing centers and concentration camps with gas chambers
(and, as shown below, sometimes with false showerheads) in Nazi-occupied
Europe and Germany, as well as the methodical way in which the Nazis
located, ghettoized, and either shot or sent to killing centers or
concentration camps the Jews that came under their control, from Estonia to
Greece, from France to Ukraine, shows that the plan was well known to the
invading Nazi armies and part of their standard operation procedures.
b) The protocol of the Wannsee Conference
(http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/h-wannsee.htm) is a clear
statement of intent. Note that Estonia is noted be be already 'judenfrei':
free of Jews.
According to that document:
"Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to
be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated
according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for
work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will
be eliminated by natural causes.
The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the
most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the
product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a
new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)
In the course of the practical execution of the final solution, Europe will
be combed through from west to east. Germany proper, including the
Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, will have to be handled first due to
the housing problem and additional social and political necessities."
Note that it states specifically "will be eliminated by natural causes".
The healthiest and strongest Jews will be "treated accordingly" to prevent
"a new Jewish revival".
c) Source:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/h/himmler.heinrich/himmler-ausrotten-de
Es trat an uns die Frage heran: Wie ist es mit den Frauen
und Kindern? - Ich habe mich entschlossen, auch hier eine
ganz klare Lösung zu finden. Ich hielt mich nämlich nicht
für berechtigt, die Männer auszurotten - sprich also,
umzubringen oder umbringen zu lassen - und die Rächer
in Gestalt der Kinder für unsere Söhne und Enkel
groß werden zu lassen. Es mußte der schwere Entschluß
gefaßt werden, dieses Volk von der Erde verschwinden zu
lassen.
- Heinrich Himmler am 6.10.1943 vor
Reichs- und Gauleitern in Posen.
Zitiert nach:
Hermann Graml,
Reichskristallnacht
dtv 4519, S. 264
TRANSLATION (EH):
We were confronted by the question: How is it to be with the women and
children? - Here, too, I have decided to find a completely clear solution.
I did not, you see, consider myself entitled to exterminate the men - in
other words, to kill or have killed - and allow the avengers in the form of
their children to grow up for our sons and grandchildren. The difficult
decision had to be made to allow this people to disappear from the earth.
- Heinrich Mimmler on October 6, 1943 to national and local leaders in
Poznan.
Quoted according to:
Hermann Graml.
Reichskristallnacht (National Crystal Night)
dtv 4519, pg. 264
An alternative translation of the same text done by the computer at Systran
(http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?urltext=):
English:
It came closer at us the question: How is it with the women and children? -
I decided to find a quite clear solution also here. I did not hold myself
for entitled to exterminate the men - speak thus to let become large to
kill or kill let - and the avengers in shape of the children for our sons
and grandchildren. The heavy resolution had to be seized to let this
people of the earth disappear.
> (3) Several of the things claimed by the Holocaustniks have been subsequently
> proven false.
Such as? It is true that there is no agreement as to the absolute number of
victims, but then again nobody knows within a range of ±5% how many people
are presently living in the United States or how many people died in WW II.
Figures can be presented and concepts can be redefined, for which reason
earlier conlcusions are subject to revision, as is always the case when
working with this order of magnitudeand complexity.
Many *more* of the things claimed by historians of the Holocaust have
subsequently been proven true. Two good examples are:
a) the forensic archeological evidence found at Serniki in Ukraine:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/places/ukraine/serniki-excavations
b) The massive paper trail left by General Friedrich Jeckeln and his
subordinates in their efforts to ghettoize and liquidate the Jewish
population of Riga, Latvia, between mid-September and the end of 1941:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/places/latvia/jeckeln-interrogation.1245
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/places/latvia/latvian-jews,
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/places/latvia/riga-shootings.1241
>
> (4) the structure at Auschwitz, shown for decades to tourists as a "gas
chambe,r"
> was shown to have been built AFTER the war.
Not true. According to Franciszek Piper of the Auschwitz Museum
(http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/p/piper.franciszek/press/daily.texan.1
093):
[BEGIN QUOTE]
3. Cole maintains that I first time admitted the allegedly
unknown fact the Nazis adapted the crematorium in question in
which the gas chamber were located for air-raid shelter, the fact
allegedly unknown even for Museum guides. It is un truth. See
enclosed copies of pages from the books which constitute the
fundamental reading for Auschwitz guides. In book by T-an Sehn
"Concentrat Camp Ogwiqcim-Brzezinka (Auschwitz-Birkenau)Warsaw 1957,
You may read on the page 152-"In May 1944 the old Crematorium
I in the base camp was adapted for use as an air raid shelter
The Fact is also confirmed in the book by Jean Claude Pressac
"Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers,
published by The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York 1989(515
Madison Avenue. On the page 157 you may read: "With part of the
building converted to an air raid shelter, this is the state in which
the SS abandoned Krematorium I in January 1945" Repeating what
Pressac had written I told what was the nature of the
adaptation works carried out by the Nazis and what one had to do to
remove those changes in order to regain the previous appearance.
They aare all "Pipers revelations. In spite of the fact that
such secondary restoration works had to be done there is an
undisputable reality that the gas chamber in question is housed in the same
builldin which has been existed from prewar times till now.
[END QUOTE]
**********
In other words, the Nazis deconstructed the gas chamber during the final
weeks of the war and used the building as an air-raid shelter. The Nazi
adaptations were subsequently removed and the building was restored after
the war to the state it had been in when it functioned as a gas chamber.
**********
With respect to the mendacious efforts of David Cole to convince people
that the building as "built after the war" Dr. Piper notes:
[BEGIN QUOTE]
4. The fact that the Nazi murderers used gas chambers (in
Birkenau you can see the ruins of the other 5 gas chambers) for
mass annihilation of innocent men, women and children, mostly
Jews, has been proved by thousands of memoires and depositions of
eyewitnesses as well as by German official documents and plans.
It is obvious fact for everybody who wants to approach the
problem, to contact still living witnesses and to study historical
sources.
5. I have devoted 28 years of my life to save the memory of
the counless victims of the Nazi barbarity to warn people against
indifference to all forms of racial, religious and national
based hatered, which leads to injustice, suffering and killing
of innocent people. Because of it I take the fact my name is
used for disseminating such kind of lies and hiding of the obvious
truth as a lack of honesty and dignity.
[END QUOTE]
**********
The decisions made by the Poles when converting the Auschwitz Concentration
Camp to as museum after the war are discussed briefly on the Museum's home
page:
http://www.man.katowice.pl/katowice/informator/tekst/english/m172.shtml
Specifically:
"Some of the structures have been totally destroyed by the SS-man covering
up traces of the crime, in some cases when it was considered to be
important the museum reconstructed some structures and they were situated
in the places where they had been in the period of the camp existence."
This is legitimateand standard practice when converting an historical site
to a museum.
>
> (5) three reputable scientists (four if I am permitted to include Fred
Leuchter)
> independently examined the place and independently concluded that it could not
> possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for it.
>
a) For one of the several reports concluding the opposite see the IFRC
Report, a paper by Jan
Markiewicz, Wojciech Gubala, and Jerzy Labadz of the Institute of Forensic
Research, Cracow
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/
It concludes:
[BEGIN QUOTE]
Final Remarks
The present study shows that in spite of the passage of a considerable
period of time (over 45 years) in the walls of the facilities which once
were in contact with hydrogen cyanide the vestigial amounts of the
combinations of this constituent of Zyklon B have been preserved. This is
also true of the ruins of the
former gas chambers. The cyanide compounds occur in the building materials
only locally, in the places
where the conditions arose for their formation and persistence for such a
long time.
In his reasoning Leuchter (2) claims that the vestigial amounts of cyanide
combinations detected by him in
the materials from the chamber ruins are residues left after fumigations
carried out in the Camp "once, long ago"(Item 14.004 of the Report). This
is refuted by the negative results of the examination of the control
samples from living quarters, which are said to have been subjected to a
single gassing, and the fact that in the period of fumigation of the Camp
in connection with a typhoid epidemic in mid-1942 there were still no
crematoria in the Birkenau Camp. The first crematorium (Crematorium II) was
put to use as late as 15 March 1943 and the others several months later.
[END QUOTE]
b) You might want to do some reading on the different forensic reports that
have been made, as well as a crtique of them, in "The Chemistry of
Auschwitz" by Richard J. Green, particularly sections iv and v.
> =================================================
>
> >
> >
> > >Rather than admit gross wartime exaggeration they act like cornered
mobsters
> > >who fight and eliminate anyone who would prevent them from milking
political
> > >prostitutes in Europe of their money.
In addition to killing Jews, the Nazis also confiscated their property.
There are tens of thousands of buildings all across Europe which documents
show were confiscated from Jews by the Nazis. There are records of the
contents of hundreds of thousands of apartments and homes being taken,
inventories, and either shipped to Germany or auctioned off by the nazis.
There are thousands of unclaimed Jewish bank accounts and insurance
policies whose owners were killed by the Nazis.
Those Jews who survived owe it to themselves as well as to the descendants
of Holocaust victims to recover those of their assets that can be
recovered.
The Majdanek Museum website provides a taste of the scope of the Nazi
plunder of Jewish property:
http://www.lublin.pol.pl/majdanek/grabiez_a.html
[BEGIN QUOTE]
Plunder
As has been mentioned, upon entering the camp the new arrivals were
stripped of everything they had brought in. This was not only jewellery and
money, but clothes and personal belongings, often in great quantities. The
most 'precious' were Jewish transports as those nationals, believing they
would be resettled in new areas, took with them all that was valuable. When
on 15 August, 1942, there was a transport from the ghetto in Warsaw, the
camp deposit gained 129 000 zl. In May, 1942, there were 5 chests with
money, 4 chests with jewels and 5 chests with money and jewels transferred
to the storehouse for Jewish property in
Chopin Street. Not to overlook anything, even corpses were searched for
valuables, and gold or sliver teeth were pulled out on a specially fitted
table installed within the crematorium...
The fact that after liberation there were 800,000 pairs of shoes left in
Majdanek may bear witness to the scale of the operation. They are on
display in three barracks that make up the exhibition. The spoils gathered
in Majdanek created an opportunity for embezzlement for the SS employed
there. This was a common occurence, and even functionaries holding main
positions in the camp were involved in it, including commandants. Two of
them, K.O.Koch and H.Florstedt, were put on trial by SS court for
appropriation of valuables and sentenced to death.
[END QUOTE]
> >
> > Cite the "gross wartime exaggeration" in question.
>
> =================================
> Phillips
> the claim that Jews in the millions were deliberately executed in gas
chambers.
> =====================================
Not a claim, but a fact. Live with it. Nobody builds facilities of this
type without a definite objective, and the objective is expressed in the
above quote from Himmler as well as in the protocol from the Wannsee
Conference.
a) Below are the verified gas chambers at the Auschwitz complex, their names,
capacities, and dates of operation. Please remember that there were also
gas chambers at Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka, and other
camps. The structure and planning of these facilities is "deliberate", most
of the victims were Jews, although Gypsies, intellectuals, clergymen, and
POWs are also known to have been put to death - thus "executed" in them,
and their size and throughput capacity definitely shows that they were
intended for mass killing.
From: http://www.wsg-hist.uni-linz.ac.at/Auschwitz/HTML/Gaskammern.html
Within those crematories, all stations of the extermination process were
geographically centralized and mechanized. Each station had undress rooms,
gas chambers and ovens to incinerate the bodies.
Auschwitz I - main camp extermination plants in action
Crematorium I gas chamber, three ovens for
340 bodies early 1942
till spring 1943
Auschwitz II - Birkenau extermination plants in action
Bunker I Two gas chamber for 800
people, undress rooms, mass
graves 1942
Bunker II Four gas chambers for 1.200
people, undress rooms, 1942;
reconstructed spring
1944 and used
as reserve
during daytime
Crematorium II Subterranean gas chamber for
up to 3.000 people, surface five
ovens for daily 1.440 bodies March 1943
till November
1944
Crematorium III Subterranean gas chamber for
up to 3.000 people, surface five
ovens for daily 1.440 bodies June 1943
till November 1944
Crematorium IV 4 gas chambers surface for
some 3.000 people, two ovens
for 768 bodies daily since March
1943, destroyed
by inmates
on Oct. 7, 1944
Crematorium V 4 gas chambers surface for
some 3.000 people, two ovens
for 768 bodies daily April 1943
till November 1944
According to technical calculations, 4.756 bodies could be burnt in the
crematories. But this was just a theoretical factor, which inluded the time for
maintenance and purge of the fire-places. Practically, up to 5.000 bodies were
burnt in the crematories II and III every day, 3.000 in crematorium IV and
V. The
capacities of the funeral piles at the bunkers was unlimited. In summer of 1944,
during the deportation of Hungarian Jews, the SS put bunker II into
operation again.
At this time, up to 24.000 people could be killed and burnt.
*********************************
b) Source: http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/w/wirth.christian/killing.cntr
"The Nazis built Sobibor, Belzec, Treblinka, and Chelmno as killing
centers for the sole purpose of extermination the Jews of Europe and as
many Gypsies as could be found. All four were constructed on Polish soil
primarily because of the widespread Polish railway system, which had
stations in the smallest towns. In addition, the Polish countryside,
which was densely forested and thinly populated, made secrecy possible.
Not one killing center existed longer than seventeen months. The SS
obliterated each of them, intending to remove all traces. Polish
scholars estimate conservatively that in these four camps, 2,000,000 Jews
and 52,000 Gypsies, one third of whom were children, were killed. Yes,
the concentration camps had their gas vans, their gas chambers, their
crematoria, and their mass graves. People were shot in them, given
injections, gassed, and hundreds of thousands died of starvation and
disease. But even in Birkenau, where some have estimated that 1,000,000
Jews were killed, there was a chance of life. In the killing centers the
only inmates kept alive for a short time were those selected to process
the bodies of their fellow Jews."
c) According to information disseminated by the city of Lublin, Poland, about
Kajdanek, the Nazi concentration camp located there
(http://www.lublin.pl/miasto/wycieczk.html):
Muzeum na Majdanku - [zachowana czesc obozu koncentracyjnego, zalozonego
przez hitlerowcow w 1941-42.] Po
Oswiecimiu stal sie drugim pod wzgledem wielkosci obozem smierci w krajach
okupowanej Europy. Zginelo w nim okolo 235 tysiecy ludzi z 26 krajow, w tym
okolo 48% to Zydzi, ofiary Holokaustu. Liczba ta zawiera w sobie ok. 30
tys. lubelskich Zydow, prawie cala przedwojenna ich populacje.
Translation (EH):
The Museum of Majdanek... After Auschwitz it was second with respect to the
number of victims killed in the countries of occupied Europe. In it
perished 235 thousand people from 26 countries, of which approximately 48%
were Jews, victims of the Holocaust. This inculdes about 30 thousand Lublin
Jews, virtually the entire pre-war population of the city.
**********************************
You might take a look at the virtual tour of the Majdanek concentration
camp at http://www.lublin.pol.pl/majdanek/english.html if you have any
doubts about the truth of a delinberate plan of Nazi genocide against
Eastern European Jews. Here is the most important part:
From: http://www.lublin.pol.pl/majdanek/eksterminacja_a.html
[BEGIN QUOTE]
Extermination
The conditions of existence inside the camp were a form of extermination
commonly used by the nazis as they caused - as has been mentioned above -
mass deaths among inmates emaciated by their imprisonment at Majdanek. Not
all the prisoners could face up to camp reality. There were cases os
suicide among mentally weaker inmates, and this mostly applied to Jews. In
the statements issued by Polish resistance movement it was often noted that
mortality in the Lublin Camp was apalling. Prisoners were exposed not only
to accelerated 'natural' death. Endlessly they had the experience of direct
genocide, whose most frequent
form were executions and gassings on a mass scale. The earliest victims of
mass executions were Soviet POWs ill with typhus, and local peasants. This
was also the manner of death of prisoners seriously ill, selected in
hospital barracks, and those Jews who were pronounced unfit for labour.
The largets execution took place on 3 November 1943, when some 18 000
Jewish inmates were shot. This mass shooting was the final stage of the
liquidation of Jews in the district of Lublin. Before it started, three
rows of deep ditches were dug close by the crematorium. On the night of 2
November
members of the German police arrived at the camp and surrounded prisoners
fields. After the the morning roll-call all Jewish inmates were driven onto
Field V. Soon, more Jews arrived from other camps in Lublin and the prison
at the Castle. They were all herded in the field and, group by group, were
directed into one block near the crematorium to strip naked. Then they were
driven towards the ditches and, according to an eye-witness testimony by
Erich Muhsfeldt, chief of the crematorium, the course of events was as
follows:
They had to lie down and the SS from Sonderkommando, standing at the top of
the ditch, machine gunned them. Consecutively, other batches were run along
the bottom of the ditch to its very end, where they had to lie down on the
copses of those already shot, so that the ditch would be filling up,
section by section, to its verybrink. Men were executed in group separate
from women. The action lasted without any break till 5 p.m. The SS-men
shooting the victims changed, they left for meals in the barracks in town,
but the execution continued incessantly. Throughout the day, music was
played from two cars specially equipped with loudspeakers.
Also in Majdanek executions took place of political prisoners, mainly Ples,
from the Castle Jail in Lublin. These became more numerous in the early
months of 1944, and the last weeks before liberation. Such executions were
carried out in the crematorium enclosure by SS-men from the camp. The last
one took place on the eve of the liberation of Lublin. From mid 1942, gas
chambers became the place of direct
extermination of prisoners. Gassings were carried out in specially built
chambers of which two adjoined to the bath-house were in most frequent use.
Over the entrance door there was a sign reading Bath and Disinfection to
lull the vigilance of those condemned to death. Built of brick, they had
reinforced concrete cellings, concrete floors and thick metal doors with a
peep-hole hermetically sealed. In one chamber the process of killing could
be watched through a small window in the wall of
the adjacent room for the SS-man. Cyclone B and carbo monoxide were most
commonly used in gas chambers.
Cyclone B (lumps of silicate earth saturated with hydrocyanide) was
introduced into the chamber through
an opening in the celling, and condensed carbo monoxide came from the
bottles. Some 7 700 kg of Cyclone B were delivered. To drown the cries of
the dying tractor engines were run near the gas chambers.
The mass murder installations constitute the most important remains of the
camp. They are the baths and gas chambers, the crematorium with its stoves
for incinerating bodies, the retort from the earliest crematorium, the cart
platform used to transport the corpses, ditches made before executions with
the chassis on which bodies were burned and the compost containing human
ashes placed in the Mausoleum.
[END QUOTE]
d) Source: http://ftp.std.com/obi/Holocaust/prolog.arad
[BEGIN QUOTE]
"The largest single massacre action of the Holocost, Operation
Reinhard, which lasted twenty-one months, from March 1942 to November
1943, was carried out by, and accomplished according to the plans of,
the Nazi extermination machine. It was an integral and substantial
part of the overall plan for the `Final Solution of the Jewish
Problem.'
The commanders of Operation Reinhard, Globocnik, Wirth, and the SS men
subordinate to them, succeeded in creating an efficient yet simple
system of mass extermination by using relatively scanty resources. In
each of the death camps -- in Belzec, in Sobibor, and in Treblinka --
a limited number of 20 to 35 Germans were stationed for purposed of
command and supervision, and about 90 to 130 Ukrainians were
responsible for guard duties. All the physical work of the
extermination process was imposed on 700 to 1,000 Jewish prisoners who
were kept in each camp.
The layout and structure of the camps were adapted to serve the
extermination system and procedure. they were relatively small and
compact, which enabled permanent and strict control over the entire
area and all activities in the camp. The material used to build the
camps -- lumber and bricks -- and the means used for extermination --
a simple motor vehicle and ordinary petrol -- were readily available
in the immediate vicinity. Local workers and Jewish prisoners built
the camps. All these elements made the entire operation independent of
outside and distant factors. ... The killing system, as developed by
Wirth, enabled the murder of tens of thousands of Jews every day in
the three death camps under his jurisdiction.
...
The ruse continued even after the Jews arrived in the camps. Almost
all of the victims went to the gas chambers believing that these were
indeed baths. Secrecy, deception, and disguise on the one hand, and
little chance for rescue or for hiding among the local population on
the other hand, enabled the Nazis to keep their extermination machine
running smoothly.
But those Jews who were selected for work in the camps and who were
aware of what was going on there did not give up. Prisoners in Sobibor
and Treblinka succeeded, despite the strict control and surveillance
under which they were kept, in carrying out individual escapes and in
staging an uprising accompanied by a mass escape. The uprisings
ensured the survival of hundreds of prisoners and revealed the secrets
of the death camps to the world. These survivors were the main
witnesses at the Sobibor and Treblinka trials in the Federal Republic
of Germany, as well as at other trials. The perpetrators did not
succeed in their attempts to bury and burn the truth of the camps
together with the victims.
BELZEC, SOBIBOR, & TREBLINKA: An integral part of the Nazi killing
machine in occupied Poland - these camps served one purpose, and one
purpose only - the total destruction of the Jewish people.
The Nazi leaders adopted and executed a deliberate and massive
campaign of genocide which has been documented beyond dispute and is
accepted by an entire world, excepting only those Neo-Nazi elements
cloaking their continuing hatred of the Jewish people in
pseudo-historical nonsense.
The existence of Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Auschwitz, Maidanek,
Chelmno and others is beyond question. The purpose for which these
camps were created is also beyond question.
Others have pointed out that any system of justice can be said to be
flawed, in that it represents only the reality of its time. I am not
here to argue that point. Instead, I provide enough information for
those who wish to pursue it to their own conclusions - in this case,
the legal records of the German people, specifically as they relate to
the three camps noted at the beginning of this article:
* Excerpted from....
BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death Camps
Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987. ISBN 0-253-3429-7
----------------------------------------------------------------
[END QUOTE]
> ==================================
> Phillips
>
> the ruling powers in both Germany and France
>
> =================================
The ruling powers of Germany went to considerable measures to bring the
people responsible for these camps to justice:
http://ftp.std.com/obi/Holocaust/prolog.arad
[BEGIN QUOTE]
"Nazi criminals who served in these camps stood trial in West Germany.
The trial of the SS men who had served in Belzec was held in Munich in
January 1965. The primary defendant was Josef Oberhauser; there were
six others. The trial of the SS men who had served in Sobibor was held
in Hagen and lasted fifteen months, from September 1965 until December
1966. The leading defendent was Kurt Bolender; there were eleven
others. The first Treblinka trial, at which ten of the SS men who
served in the camp were broght to trial, amonth them Kurt Franz, the
deputy commander, was held in Dusseldorf between October 1964 and
August 1965. The second Treblinka trial, at which Franz Stangl, the
commander of the camp, was tried, was also held in Dusseldorf, from
September 1969 to December 1970." *
* Excerpted from....
BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death Camps
Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987. ISBN 0-253-3429-7
[END QUOTE]
--
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
> Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
>
> > In article <vomG2.15074$Mb.11...@newscontent-02.sprint.ca>, "J&T Ball"
> > <mi...@sprint.ca> wrote:
> >
> > >"Jews = liars! They taught central Europeans to lie!
> >
> > Uh huh. Of course, you can provide evidence that no lie was ever uttered
> > in Central Europe before the advent of the Jews?
> >
> > Didn't think so...
> >
> > >Proof of their copious
> > >mendacity is now being revealed to young people by the way they
support each
> > >other in shamelessly promoting the obviously false Holocaust stories!!
> >
If "obviously false" are these testimonies the product of mass hysteria or
hypnosis?
Source: http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/Document/DocTreb.htm
Testimony of Treblinka's second commandant, Stangl.
Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death
Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 184:
Michel [the sergeant-major of the camp] told me later that Wirth suddenly
appeared, looked around on the gas chambers on which they were still
working, and said: 'right, we'll try it out right now with those
twenty-five working Jews. Get them up here'. They marched our twenty-five
Jews up there and just pushed them in and gassed them. Michel said Wirth
behaved like a lunatic, hitting at his own staff with his whip to drive
them on...
Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka.
Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free
Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247:
When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl.
He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports than
could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to wait
outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport had not
yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a result of the
long wait inside the transport trains in the intense heat many people died.
At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on the platform. The
Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka and kicked up a
terrific row. And then one day Dr. Eberl was no longer there...
For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and then
after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The two parts
of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine branches were used
so that you could not see through the fences. The same thing was done along
the route from the "transfer" area to the gas chambers...
Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there were
now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how many people
these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers could hold 80-100
people, the large ones could probably hold twice that number...
Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be shunted
into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The commandant, his
deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be here waiting as the
transport came in. Further SS members were also present to supervise the
unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had to make absolutely sure that
there was no one left in the car after the occupants had been ordered to
get out.
When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word with
them. They were told something to the effect that they were a resettlement
transport, that they would be given a bath and that they would receive new
clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet and discipline. They
would continue their journey the following day.
Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area. The
women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The women were
than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the gas chambers. On
the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand in their jewelery and
valuables..
Kurt Franz testifies on his days in Treblinka.
Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free
Press, NY, 1988., p. 247-249:
I cannot say how many Jews in total were gassed in Treblinka. On average
each day a large train arrived. Sometimes there were even two. This however
was not so common.
In Treblinka I was commander of the Ukrainian guard unit as I had been in
Belzec. In Treblinka as in Belzec the unit consisted of sixty to eighty
men. The Ukrainians' main task was to man the guard posts around the camp
perimeter. After the uprising in August 1943 I ran the camp more or less
single-handedly for a month; however, during that period no gassings were
undertaken.
It was during that period that the original camp was demolished. Everything
was leveled off and lupins were planted...
Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka.
Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death
Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 121:
During the entire time I was in Treblinka, I served in the upper camp. The
upper camp was that part of Treblinka with the gas chambers, where the Jews
were killed and their corpses laid in large pits and later burned.
About fourteen Germans carried out services in the upper camp. There were
two Ukrainians permanently in the upper camp. One of them was called
Nikolai, the other was a short man, I don't remember his name... These two
Ukrainians who lived in the upper camp served in the gas chambers. They
also took care of the engine room when Fritz Schmidt was absent. Usually
this Schmidt was in charge of the engine room. In my opinion, as a civilian
he was either a mechanic or a driver...
All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my estimate, about
300 people could enter each gas chamber. The people went into the gas
chamber without resistance. Those who were at the end, the Ukrainian guards
had to push inside. I personally saw how the Ukrainians pushed the people
with their rifle butts...
The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes. Then Schmidt stopped
the gassing, and the two Ukrainians who were in the engine room opened the
gas chambers from the other side.
Source: http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/Document/DocCamp.htm
Testimony of SS Scharf絹rer Erich Fuchs, in the Sobibor-Bolender trial,
Dusseldorf.
Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death
Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 31-32:
....We unloaded the motor. It was a heavy Russian benzine engine, at least
200 horsepower. we installed the engine on a concrete foundation and set up
the connection between the exhaust and the tube.
I then tested the motor. It did not work. I was able to repair the ignition
and the valves, and the motor finally started running. The chemist, who I
knew from Belzec, entered the gas chamber with measuring instruments to
test the concentration of the gas.
Following this, a gassing experiment was carried out. If my memory serves
me right, about thirty to forty women were gassed in one gas chamber. The
Jewish women were forced to undress in an open place close to the gas
chamber, and were driven into the gas chamber by the above mentioned SS
members and the Ukrainian auxiliaries. when the women were shut up in the
gas chamber I and Bolender set the motor in motion. The motor functioned
first
in neutral. Both of us stood by the motor and switched from "Neutral"
(Freiauspuff) to "Cell" (Zelle), so that the gas was conveyed to the
chamber. At the suggestion of the chemist, I fixed the motor on a definite
speed so that it was unnecessary henceforth to press on the gas. About ten
minutes later the thirty to forty women were dead.
From the testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Wilhelm Bahr in his trial at Hamburg.
Quoted in "Truth Prevails", ISBN 1-879437-00-7, p. 99:
Q: Is it correct that you have gassed 200 Russian POW's with Zyklon-B?
A: Yes, on orders.
Q: Where did you do that?
A: In Neuengamme [concentration camp].
Q: On whose order?
A: The local doctor, Dr. Von Bergmann.
Q: With what gas?
A: With Prussic acid [another name for Zyklon-B].
Q: How long did the Russians take to die?
A: I do not know. I only obeyed orders.
Q: How long did it take to gas the Russians?
A: I returned after two hours and they were all dead.
Q: For what purpose did you go away?
A: That was during lunch hour.
Q: You left for your lunch and came back afterwards?
A: Yes.
Q: Were they dead when you came back?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you look at their bodies?
A: Yes, because I had to load them.
Q: Why did you apply the gas to the Russians?
A: I only had orders to pour in the gas and I do not know anything about it.
SS-Doctor Kremer at a hearing on 18 July 1947.
Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free
Press, NY, 1988, p. 258:
I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups of women
[from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how big the group was.
when I got close to the bunker I saw them sitting on the ground. They were
still clothed. As they were wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not
left in the undressing hut but made to undress in
the open air. I concluded from the behavior of these women that they had no
doubt what fate awaited them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to
spare them their lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and
gassed. As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had a
lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what
I saw that day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September 1942: "The
most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharf屑rer Thilo was right when he said to
me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the anal orifice of the world". I
used this image because I could not imagine anything
more disgusting and horrific.
Testimony of Magnus Wochner, SS guard at the Natzweiler Concentration Camp.
Quoted in "The Natzweiler Trial", Edited by Anthony M. Webb, p. 89:
... I recall particularly one mass execution when about 90 prisoners (60
men and 30 women), all Jews, were killed by gassing. This took place, as
far as I can remember, in spring 1944. In this case the corpses were sent
to Professor Hirt of the department of Anatomy in Strasbourg.
Testimony of SS Oberscharf絹rer Erich Bauer Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR,
TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death Camps", Indiana University Press -
Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 77;
Usually the undressing went smoothly. Subsequently, the Jews were taken
through the "tube" to Camp III - the real extermination camp. The transfer
through the "tube" proceeded as follows: one SS man was in the lead and
five or six Ukrainian auxiliaries were at the back hastening the Jews
along. The women were taken through a barracks where their
hair was cut off. In Camp III the Jews were received by an SS man... As I
already mentioned, the motor was then switched on by Gotringer and one of
the auxiliaries whose name I don't remember. Then the gassed Jews were
taken out.
--
Regards,
Eugene Holman