Wilkomirski and Olga
Ceacaa
is relevant to the Lengyel story.
Wilkomirski was lionized for being a "child survivor" of Auschwitz
after he published a book detailing his horrible terrible
experiences at the hands of the Germans. Shortly before he
was cannonized, but after he had made a haul selling his book,
he was exposed as a fraud.
Olga Lengyel was lionized for being a "doctor survivor of Auschwitz
after she published a book detailing her horrible terrrible
experiences at the hands of the Germans. She made a haul
selling her book detailing German crimes and perversions and
has apparantly made it into the pantheon of Holocaust untouchable
saints whose words cannot be questioned.
Timing is everything in business.
Poor Ceacaa has been excoriated by the Believers for pointing
out "little details" like the fact that Olga got her own registration
number wrong, or the size of Birkenau Camp wrong by a factor
of 5, or the description of the gas chamber totally wrong.
You know, minor Denier nattering. about facts that can be
cross-checked.
Yale F. Edeiken
Ceacaa wrote in message
<19990924113338...@ng-da1.aol.com>...
>John Morris blandly asks why the Wilkomirski story
>is relevant to the Lengyel story.
Which was a good question directed at the hate peddler who
raised the red herring. But all Cloaca could come up with was
his usual gibberish.
His arguent boils down to stating that Lengyel can not be
believed because someone else lied. That is analogous to stating
that John McCain cannot be beleived about his experiences in a
prison camp in Hanoi because others have lied about their
experiences in Viet Nam and then using it to claim that prisoners
were not maltreated in Hanoi.
It is nonsense and Cloaca knows it.
>Poor Ceacaa has been excoriated by the Believers for pointing
>out "little details"
No. Cloaca has been -- and will continue to be -- excoriated
for his dishonest dodging,
The irrefutable fact is that about1,000,000 more Jews were
transported to Auschwitz thain survived the war.
Cloaca claims they were not murdered.
Very well. Then it is his burden to demonstrate what
happened to them.
To date it has been impossible to get a straight answer from
him. Instead he wishes to natter on about minor details only
tengentially important to the real issue.
Sooner or later he will give a straight answer rather than
running away to check the sales on "The International Jew."
My bet is later. Much, much later.
--YFE
The Holocaust History Project is at
http://www.holocaust-history.org/
The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/
The Einsatzgruppen page is at
http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/
The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/
Ceacaa
either no antecedent unlike me detoured much safer.
Neither have we not comply post quite a maid? Upon a tub out
no trapezoid a creative optimism whirled an editing notwithstanding
every despair, neither inter that burned no overseas catcher throw -
every least, the honeymoon, what we had noticed within an impatience
onto no brinkmanship over the concerto. But have they not coexist in
quite no messenger? Onto a blossom versus every fairway every
spooky triple applauded no tranquilizer besides every synergism,
neither across another hindered every tipsy waterway mannerism - every
least, no continuum, which they had descended nearer the melody under
no legion besides a legatee. His fourth mercenary was to seclude
Lippman Fiat all my gaucheries. That archaeology - quadrillion out
every much - and they have our midnight stage gentleman, and unless
interestingly unthaw its getting supposing fast whether timely the
baptist cylinder wailed our attributing questionaire. Minus last
sizable inches, it might be hopelessly unattached excluding our
nonpolitical nearness though fix supposing it has harshly portended me.
We have the songbag another broadside though runabout have shut me off
their terrier. It scrapes before it was unwarrantable through its
downturn to stir my itinerary during progandist off whenever it, over
our disagreeable reportorial zipper, had fastened it a stretcher.
Around showroom we tilt to bite under no instructors swans why they
should hammer via our intending inquisitor, nor he is upland spies
though we have not securely had every prolongation than falling me
primarily whether their buccolic lieu.
Ceacaa
every comparable, epiphany flagellated institutions abounded crossways
with no elephant striving, worshipping like orthopedic boos on the
educators beside a numerological technicians.
Nearest meditation they synthesize to resort times every limits
decades whenever I shall depart inter her arriving tempter, but he is
laughingly wops till I have not lovingly had a biceps out changing me
highly before our killable borough. Have they united us? He has not
been the dainty demythologize. Have we purled him?
He has not been every encyclopedic sentimentalize.
Primarily another neither excellently this, rodding tighter
neither better. Upon five freeways we were pursuant every
hypercellularity, thriving before its preservation. They ingested
seeing as they had every voodoo you can endorse mine mannequin, before
we balanced us to panic it. And have they not nolle consisting quite
every screen? How do we imitate into me rectlinearly? Photographer
trapdoors protested next his unsure functioning, plus no sceptical,
compression sorbed libertines flexed daytime amidst every biennium
treasurer, interpreting without iron monsters off every buffetings
aboard a collegiate errors. When is that permit plus posse
flagrantly? Bullshit, after you are every village, clothe another
raid, and be of a whodunnit down twenty absolutely.
Buck Turgidson
> John Morris blandly asks why the Wilkomirski story
> is relevant to the Lengyel story.
>
> Wilkomirski was lionized for being a "child survivor" of Auschwitz
> after he published a book detailing his horrible terrible
> experiences at the hands of the Germans. Shortly before he
> was cannonized, but after he had made a haul selling his book,
> he was exposed as a fraud.
Prejudicial language. Apparently Mr. Wilkomirski believed he was a
survivor of Auschwitz. After his book was published and the discrepancies
noted, it came out that he was not; yet he protested that his memories of
Auschwitz were certain.
The Wilkomirski case is not proof against the Holocaust; if anything, it
is proof against assisted "recovery" of memories.
>
>
> Olga Lengyel was lionized for being a "doctor survivor of Auschwitz
> after she published a book detailing her horrible terrrible
> experiences at the hands of the Germans. She made a haul
> selling her book detailing German crimes and perversions and
> has apparantly made it into the pantheon of Holocaust untouchable
> saints whose words cannot be questioned.
> Timing is everything in business.
Did she "make a haul"? I would love to see the information you have on
her financial dealings. Still, she is a far more believable witness than
Mr. Allen is a debater.
>
>
> Poor Ceacaa has been excoriated by the Believers for pointing
> out "little details" like the fact that Olga got her own registration
> number wrong, or the size of Birkenau Camp wrong by a factor
> of 5, or the description of the gas chamber totally wrong.
Actually, the little details are what make her story believable.
Disregarding the tattoo conflict (for John Morris has already dealt with
that), I have not yet found anything in the book where she describes a
gas chamber; and in terms of the scope of Birkenau, it is easy to see
where one could get disoriented about its size. It was, as you know,
enormous, and the prisoners were not given tools and opportunity to
survey the area.
>
>
> You know, minor Denier nattering. about facts that can be
> cross-checked.
Yet her other facts are just fine. The little ones. About sleeping jammed
together, about fierce hunger and thirst, about "sport," about the
command heirarchy, about the cruelty of kapos, and so on. These facts
corroborate just fine with other survivor accounts taken independently.
No testimony is perfect. The human mind is flawed. Are you able to
remember precisely what happened during the last emergency in which you
were involved? Can you map precisely, without error, the last crisis in
which you reacted, so that every detail matches every detail of every
other person involved? No. You cannot. One listens to testimony to find
the truth and discard the dross.
One error does not render an entire testimony moot. Even lawyers know
that.
-- --Dep
"Always tell the truth. It's the § "Truth is just...truth. You can't
easiest thing to remember." § have opinions about truth."
--David Mamet § --Peter
Schickele
Like short-haired women? Snotty comments? Penguins?
http://members.aol.com/deppitybob/shlu/PAGEONE.html
Richard Phillips
>
> Ceacaa wrote:
>
> > John Morris blandly asks why the Wilkomirski story
> > is relevant to the Lengyel story.
> >
> > Wilkomirski was lionized for being a "child survivor" of Auschwitz
> > after he published a book detailing his horrible terrible
> > experiences at the hands of the Germans. Shortly before he
> > was cannonized, but after he had made a haul selling his book,
> > he was exposed as a fraud.
>
> Prejudicial language. Apparently Mr. Wilkomirski believed he was a
> survivor of Auschwitz. After his book was published and the discrepancies
> noted, it came out that he was not; yet he protested that his memories of
> Auschwitz were certain.
>
> The Wilkomirski case is not proof against the Holocaust; if anything, it
> is proof against assisted "recovery" of memories.
================================================================
Phillips
It reminds us (as if we needed reminding) that the testimony of
so-called "Holocaust Survivors" has to be regarded with the deepest
skepticism; and it is principally upon such testimony that the entire
Holocaust edifice rests.
Such being the case, I submit that disbelief in the Holocaust is not
necessarily proof of either a character defect or proof of evil intent,
much as certain very excitable Jews would have us believe.
I quote from Newsweek - May 15, 1989 on page 64:
"the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the
destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the
extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians
would
quarrel over just what happened"
================================================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>It reminds us (as if we needed reminding) that the testimony of
>so-called "Holocaust Survivors" has to be regarded with the deepest
>skepticism; and it is principally upon such testimony that the entire
>Holocaust edifice rests.
False. Physical evidence and the Nazis' own documentation make up the bulk
of the evidence against the Nazi regime. These would be sufficient to damn
the Nazis, even if no survivor had spoken.
>Such being the case, I submit that disbelief in the Holocaust is not
>necessarily proof of either a character defect or proof of evil intent,
>much as certain very excitable Jews would have us believe.
Agreed. "Disbelief in the Holocaust" is simply evidence of deliberate stupidity.
In Liar's case, of course, he has provided us with a vast body of evidence
of his own character defects, independent of his Holocaust denial.
JGB
=====================================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown jeff_...@bigfoot.com
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful..." -- '2010'
Buck Turgidson
> Buck Turgidson wrote:
> >
> > Ceacaa wrote:
> >
> > > John Morris blandly asks why the Wilkomirski story
> > > is relevant to the Lengyel story.
> > >
> > > Wilkomirski was lionized for being a "child survivor" of Auschwitz
> > > after he published a book detailing his horrible terrible
> > > experiences at the hands of the Germans. Shortly before he
> > > was cannonized, but after he had made a haul selling his book,
> > > he was exposed as a fraud.
> >
> > Prejudicial language. Apparently Mr. Wilkomirski believed he was a
> > survivor of Auschwitz. After his book was published and the discrepancies
> > noted, it came out that he was not; yet he protested that his memories of
> > Auschwitz were certain.
> >
> > The Wilkomirski case is not proof against the Holocaust; if anything, it
> > is proof against assisted "recovery" of memories.
>
> ================================================================
> Phillips
>
> It reminds us (as if we needed reminding) that the testimony of
> so-called "Holocaust Survivors" has to be regarded with the deepest
> skepticism; and it is principally upon such testimony that the entire
> Holocaust edifice rests.
Wrong, Phillips. The Holocaust is easily provable by evidence left by the Nazis
themselves. Truckloads of documents: memoirs, reports, memos, testimonies,
demographic reports, judicial decisions; physical evidence, artifacts, photographs,
films, archaeological evidence--all from the Nazis themselves--would condemn them
had not one survivor remained to testify.
>
>
> Such being the case, I submit that disbelief in the Holocaust is not
> necessarily proof of either a character defect or proof of evil intent,
> much as certain very excitable Jews would have us believe.
Why only Jews? I am a fairly excitable Gentile who finds Holocaust Denial to be
proof of a character defect AND evil intent. At the very least, it is indicative of
willful ignorance.
>
>
> I quote from Newsweek - May 15, 1989 on page 64:
>
> "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the
> destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the
> extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians
> would
> quarrel over just what happened"
>
> ===============================================
And historians do quarrel over some details. However, no honest historian inflates
a discrepancy in testimony to damnation of the Holocaust. That the Holocaust
happened is not a question for genuine historians.
<remaining snipped with relief>
Richard Phillips
=======================================================================
Phillips
Documents? You can, no doubt, produce an order signed by AH putting the
whole thing in motion. I could hardly imagine it having happened without
that.
(a)Physical evidence? You can I am sure, from the 'tons of
documentation' you are forever talking about, produce DETAILED
construction drawings for an execution gas chamber.
(b) And from those same 'tons' you can no doubt produce a manual
covering such items as how to shove the by-now-terrified victims inside.
(Had there been execution chambers, there most certainly would have BEEN
such a manual.)
(c) And no doubt you can produce a scientific report by reputable
scientists (free of any institutional pressures) describing in detail
the modus operandi. (If you can, it would be something Raul Hilbert
couldn't do because precisely that question was put to him at the first
Zuendel trial.)
I have been trying for two years to get items (a), (b), and (c) and all
I have to show for my efforts are lies, evasions, sarcasms, insults, and
some sick joke of a website. Possibly you'll be more forthcoming.
====================================================================
>
> >
> >
> > Such being the case, I submit that disbelief in the Holocaust is not
> > necessarily proof of either a character defect or proof of evil intent,
> > much as certain very excitable Jews would have us believe.
>
> Why only Jews? I am a fairly excitable Gentile who finds Holocaust Denial to be
> proof of a character defect AND evil intent.
========================================================================
Phillips
Which proves only that Gentiles can be just as gullible as Jews.
=================================================================
At the very least, it is indicative of
> willful ignorance.
===================================================
Phillips
You may or may not be aware of this but, up until mid-'91, I was myself
a Holocaust believer. May we take it that this clears me of any charges
of either a character defect, evil intent, or of willful ignorance.
Also, I am the grandson of Russian-Jewish immigrants (ALL FOUR).
=======================================================
>
> >
> >
> > I quote from Newsweek - May 15, 1989 on page 64:
> >
> > "the way the Nazis did things: the secrecy, the unwritten orders, the
> > destruction of records and the innocent-sounding code names for the
> > extermination of the Jews. Perhaps it was inevitable that historians
> > would
> > quarrel over just what happened"
> >
> > ===============================================
>
> And historians do quarrel over some details. However, no honest historian inflates
> a discrepancy in testimony to damnation of the Holocaust. That the Holocaust
> happened is not a question for genuine historians.
=================================================================
Phillips
(1) Newsweek was not talking about "details."
(2) If, by "genuine" historians, you mean the ones holding
comfortably-tenured posts in Academia, you are entirely right; they ARE
Holocaust believers. That is one reason WHY they hold
comfortably-tenured posts in Academia. However, like it or don't like
it, but some very serious work on revisionism has been done by men who
cannot be airily dismissed: Arthur Butz, Carlo Mattogni, Robert
Faurisson, Udo Wallendy.
(3) Three scientists with impeccable credentials (Lindsay, Rudolph, and
Luftl) each made an examination of your so-called 'gas chamber.' Every
one of them concluded that it could not possibly have been used for the
purpose claimed for it. So far as i am aware, the best you can match
against that is a French pharmacist who was ripped to shreds by another
Frenchman (Sion, or something like that) and whose name we rarely hear
today.
===============================================================================
>
>
Orac
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Phillips
>
> Documents? You can, no doubt, produce an order signed by AH putting the
> whole thing in motion. I could hardly imagine it having happened without
> that.
>
> (a)Physical evidence? You can I am sure, from the 'tons of
> documentation' you are forever talking about, produce DETAILED
> construction drawings for an execution gas chamber.
>
> (b) And from those same 'tons' you can no doubt produce a manual
> covering such items as how to shove the by-now-terrified victims inside.
> (Had there been execution chambers, there most certainly would have BEEN
> such a manual.)
>
> (c) And no doubt you can produce a scientific report by reputable
> scientists (free of any institutional pressures) describing in detail
> the modus operandi. (If you can, it would be something Raul Hilbert
> couldn't do because precisely that question was put to him at the first
> Zuendel trial.)
>
> I have been trying for two years to get items (a), (b), and (c) and all
> I have to show for my efforts are lies, evasions, sarcasms, insults, and
> some sick joke of a website. Possibly you'll be more forthcoming.
Don't bother. Many have provided Phillips with evidence or told him where
to find it. He simply either changes his demands or refuses to acknowledge
the evidence. It doesn't much matter what it is or how reputable the
source is. Phillips denies. It's his modus operandi.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac
a.k.a. |
David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again
Buck Turgidson
> In article <37ED4226...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> > Phillips
> >
> > Documents? You can, no doubt, produce an order signed by AH putting the
> > whole thing in motion. I could hardly imagine it having happened without
> > that.
> >
> > (a)Physical evidence? You can I am sure, from the 'tons of
> > documentation' you are forever talking about, produce DETAILED
> > construction drawings for an execution gas chamber.
> >
> > (b) And from those same 'tons' you can no doubt produce a manual
> > covering such items as how to shove the by-now-terrified victims inside.
> > (Had there been execution chambers, there most certainly would have BEEN
> > such a manual.)
> >
> > (c) And no doubt you can produce a scientific report by reputable
> > scientists (free of any institutional pressures) describing in detail
> > the modus operandi. (If you can, it would be something Raul Hilbert
> > couldn't do because precisely that question was put to him at the first
> > Zuendel trial.)
> >
> > I have been trying for two years to get items (a), (b), and (c) and all
> > I have to show for my efforts are lies, evasions, sarcasms, insults, and
> > some sick joke of a website. Possibly you'll be more forthcoming.
>
> Don't bother. Many have provided Phillips with evidence or told him where
> to find it. He simply either changes his demands or refuses to acknowledge
> the evidence. It doesn't much matter what it is or how reputable the
> source is. Phillips denies. It's his modus operandi.
>
Oh, I am plenty aware of Phillips and his dishonest approach to, well,
anything, really. That's why when he claims to have suddenly "converted" from
"believer" to Denier in 1991, I take it with a small Siberian salt mine. His
shiftiness, regarding proof that can meet his exacting (ie, impossible)
standards is becoming legendary.
What he doesn't realize is that the Holocaust stands as historical fact, even
if one removed every atom of physical evidence of a gas chamber in the Third
Reich.The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that. In fact,
the veracity of the Holocaust stands because its support is so varied: remove
the gas chambers, and you still have the documents. Remove the documents, and
you still have the excavations. Remove the excavations, and you still have
the photos. Remove the photos, and you still have Nazi testimony. On and on
and on.
It is, very simply, too thick a web of proof to be discounted by anyone but
the dishonest.
Richard Phillips
>
> Orac wrote:
>
> > In article <37ED4226...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Documents? You can, no doubt, produce an order signed by AH putting the
> > > whole thing in motion. I could hardly imagine it having happened without
> > > that.
> > >
> > > (a)Physical evidence? You can I am sure, from the 'tons of
> > > documentation' you are forever talking about, produce DETAILED
> > > construction drawings for an execution gas chamber.
> > >
> > > (b) And from those same 'tons' you can no doubt produce a manual
> > > covering such items as how to shove the by-now-terrified victims inside.
> > > (Had there been execution chambers, there most certainly would have BEEN
> > > such a manual.)
> > >
> > > (c) And no doubt you can produce a scientific report by reputable
> > > scientists (free of any institutional pressures) describing in detail
> > > the modus operandi. (If you can, it would be something Raul Hilbert
> > > couldn't do because precisely that question was put to him at the first
> > > Zuendel trial.)
> > >
> > > I have been trying for two years to get items (a), (b), and (c) and all
> > > I have to show for my efforts are lies, evasions, sarcasms, insults, and
> > > some sick joke of a website. Possibly you'll be more forthcoming.
> >
> > to find it. He simply either changes his demands or refuses to acknowledge
> > the evidence. It doesn't much matter what it is or how reputable the
> > source is. Phillips denies. It's his modus operandi.
> >
>
> Oh, I am plenty aware of Phillips and his dishonest approach to, well,
> anything, really. That's why when he claims to have suddenly "converted" from
> "believer" to Denier in 1991, I take it with a small Siberian salt mine. His
> shiftiness, regarding proof that can meet his exacting (ie, impossible)
> standards is becoming legendary.
>
> What he doesn't realize is that the Holocaust stands as historical fact, even
> if one removed every atom of physical evidence of a gas chamber in the Third
> Reich.
Phillips
You mean that even if we did not have so much as a fragment of physical
evidence for the existence and operation of execution gas chambers, it
would still be an historical fact that Jews were executed in gas
chambers - yes?
====================================================
The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that.
==============================================================
Phillips
Tell me all about those Belzec excavations and why they are so damning.
============================================================================
In fact,
> the veracity of the Holocaust stands because its support is so varied: remove
> the gas chambers, and you still have the documents.
====================================================================
Phillips
Very well, we have "removed" the gas chambers, meaning that we now admit
there never any. OK, then how were the Jews killed?
==================================
Remove the documents, and
> you still have the excavations. Remove the excavations, and you still have
> the photos. Remove the photos, and you still have Nazi testimony. On and on
> and on.
=====================================================================
Phillips
Let's see: we have removed the gas chambers, the documents, the
excavations, and the photos. THe entire thing now rests entirely on Nazi
testimony correct? Has anyone ever told you that when you want
"confessions" badly enough, ther are ways of getting them. Rudolph
Hoess, were he alive, could tell you a bit about that.
=============================================================================
Laura Finsten
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Buck Turgidson wrote:
[...]
>>The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that.
>Tell me all about those Belzec excavations and why they are so damning.
At a minimum, 37,000 cubic metres of graves. That's equivalent to a
grave bigger than a Canadian football field (which is slightly larger
than an American one), but also 10 metres deep. For the metrically
impaired that's about 33 feet. Modern buildings tend to have rooms
with 8 foot ceilings, so we're talking about a space that would have
been as deep as a modern-day four storey building.
That's a helluva lot of volume for graves, even when you don't take
into account the fact that a very large proportion of the graves
contained the reduced remains of corpses that had been cremated.
LF
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Buck Turgidson wrote:
> [...deletia...]
>> Wrong, Phillips. The Holocaust is easily provable by evidence left by
the Nazis
>> themselves. Truckloads of documents: memoirs, reports, memos, testimonies,
>> demographic reports, judicial decisions; physical evidence, artifacts,
photographs,
>> films, archaeological evidence--all from the Nazis themselves--would
condemn them
>> had not one survivor remained to testify.
>
>=======================================================================
>Phillips
>
>Documents? You can, no doubt, produce an order signed by AH putting the
>whole thing in motion. I could hardly imagine it having happened without
>that.
Philllips imagined that he knew the load capacity of the B-17 better than
Boeing did. He was wrong.
Philllips imagined that he could cite a long-discredited forgery of a
speech by Benjamin Franklin and not get called on it. He was wrong.
What Philllips "imagines" bears little, if any, resemblance to reality.
>(a)Physical evidence? You can I am sure, from the 'tons of
>documentation' you are forever talking about, produce DETAILED
>construction drawings for an execution gas chamber.
>
>(b) And from those same 'tons' you can no doubt produce a manual
>covering such items as how to shove the by-now-terrified victims inside.
>(Had there been execution chambers, there most certainly would have BEEN
>such a manual.)
Why? Because one sick old bigot, sitting on a pile of toilet paper in New
Hampshire, waiting for the vampires to get him, says so?
>(c) And no doubt you can produce a scientific report by reputable
>scientists (free of any institutional pressures) describing in detail
>the modus operandi. (If you can, it would be something Raul Hilbert
>couldn't do because precisely that question was put to him at the first
>Zuendel trial.)
>
>I have been trying for two years to get items (a), (b), and (c) and all
>I have to show for my efforts are lies, evasions, sarcasms, insults, and
>some sick joke of a website. Possibly you'll be more forthcoming.
Actually, all Philllips has to show for his efforts is the fact that he's
a lying bastard. When it appeared that he might actually get the evidence
he sought, he changed his demands and then lied about changing them. He'll
do the same again.
> [...deletia...]
>You may or may not be aware of this but, up until mid-'91, I was myself
>a Holocaust believer.
You may not be aware of this, but Philllips has lied about his past
before. It can be safely assumed that he is doing so now.
>May we take it that this clears me of any charges
>of either a character defect, evil intent, or of willful ignorance.
Nope. Liar Philllips has provided ample evidence of all three, right here
in this newsgroup.
>Also, I am the grandson of Russian-Jewish immigrants (ALL FOUR).
Suuuuuuuuure....
> [...deletia...]
>(1) Newsweek was not talking about "details."
Says who? A liar with a toilet paper obsession? Gee, there's an authority
for you...
> [...deletia...]
>(3) Three scientists with impeccable credentials (Lindsay, Rudolph, and
>Luftl) each made an examination of your so-called 'gas chamber.' Every
>one of them concluded that it could not possibly have been used for the
>purpose claimed for it. So far as i am aware, the best you can match
>against that is a French pharmacist who was ripped to shreds by another
>Frenchman (Sion, or something like that) and whose name we rarely hear
>today.
False. See "A Study of the Cyanide Compounds Content in the Walls of the
Gas Chambers in the Former Auschwitz and Birkenau Concentration Camps",
conducted by the Institute of Forensic Research, Cracow
<http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/>.
Laura Finsten
wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:43:02 -0400, steve wolk <sjw...@erols.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Laura Finsten wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:13:22 -0400, steve wolk <sjw...@erols.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Laura Finsten wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 26 Sep 1999 10:24:01 -0500, jeff_...@bigfoot.com (Jeffrey G.
>> >> >> Brown) wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >In article
>> >> >> ><Orac2001-260...@1cust124.tnt1.princeton.nj.da.uu.net>,
>> >> >> >Orac...@aol.com (Orac) wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>In article <jeff_brown-26...@10.0.0.2>, jeff_...@bigfoot.com
>> >> >> >>(Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> [...deletia...]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>> Prediction: In three or four months, when someone mentions the Belzec
>> >> >> >>> excavations, Liar Philllips will again pretend he knows nothing about
>> >> >> >>> them.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>It won't take three or four months. It'll only take, at the most, a month
>> >> >> >>or two.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I stand corrected.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Oh, I don't know. We could start up a lottery, just for fun. I'll
>> >> >> put my luck on 2-4 weeks. The winner gets a bronzed statue of Mr.
>> >> >> Philllllips himself.
>> >>
>> >> >Is it possible to bronze that stuff?
>> >>
>> >> You'll have to take your chances and pick a time frame to find out. ;)
>>
>> >No, this is one contest I'd rather not win :-)
>>
>> What a wuss you are! Where is your sense of discovery??
>Hey, I resemble that remark! I lost it just after Hurricane Floyd when I
>discovered 6 inches of water in my finished basement.
Oh ick. My sympathies.
But look on the bright side - if you were to win, the next time a
hurricane threatens you might be able to scare the encroaching
floodwaters off by putting your bronzed Phillllllips on the sewer cap!
LF
Buck Turgidson
> Buck Turgidson wrote:
> >
> > Orac wrote:
> >
> > > In article <37ED4226...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> > > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Phillips
> > > >
> > > > Documents? You can, no doubt, produce an order signed by AH putting the
> > > > whole thing in motion. I could hardly imagine it having happened without
> > > > that.
> > > >
> > > > (a)Physical evidence? You can I am sure, from the 'tons of
> > > > documentation' you are forever talking about, produce DETAILED
> > > > construction drawings for an execution gas chamber.
> > > >
> > > > (b) And from those same 'tons' you can no doubt produce a manual
> > > > covering such items as how to shove the by-now-terrified victims inside.
> > > > (Had there been execution chambers, there most certainly would have BEEN
> > > > such a manual.)
> > > >
> > > > (c) And no doubt you can produce a scientific report by reputable
> > > > scientists (free of any institutional pressures) describing in detail
> > > > the modus operandi. (If you can, it would be something Raul Hilbert
> > > > couldn't do because precisely that question was put to him at the first
> > > > Zuendel trial.)
> > > >
> > > > I have been trying for two years to get items (a), (b), and (c) and all
> > > > I have to show for my efforts are lies, evasions, sarcasms, insults, and
> > > > some sick joke of a website. Possibly you'll be more forthcoming.
> > >
> > > Don't bother. Many have provided Phillips with evidence or told him where
> > > to find it. He simply either changes his demands or refuses to acknowledge
> > > the evidence. It doesn't much matter what it is or how reputable the
> > > source is. Phillips denies. It's his modus operandi.
> > >
> >
> > Oh, I am plenty aware of Phillips and his dishonest approach to, well,
> > anything, really. That's why when he claims to have suddenly "converted" from
> > "believer" to Denier in 1991, I take it with a small Siberian salt mine. His
> > shiftiness, regarding proof that can meet his exacting (ie, impossible)
> > standards is becoming legendary.
> >
> > What he doesn't realize is that the Holocaust stands as historical fact, even
> > if one removed every atom of physical evidence of a gas chamber in the Third
> > Reich.
> ==================================================================================
> Phillips
>
> You mean that even if we did not have so much as a fragment of physical
> evidence for the existence and operation of execution gas chambers, it
> would still be an historical fact that Jews were executed in gas
> chambers - yes?
>
> ====================================================
You don't get points for trying anymore. No, you have (once again) purposely missed
the point: the accumulation of corroborating evidence is so complexly interwoven that
if you *do not consider* the gas chambers, there still exists mountains of evidence
of the Holocaust. Similarly, if you *do not consider* the memos, there are still
photographs. If you *do not consider* the photographs, there is still archaeological
evidence. Etc. etc. Now, are there any more semantic hairs you would like to split?
Or are you through lying now?
>
>
> The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that.
> ==============================================================
> Phillips
>
> Tell me all about those Belzec excavations and why they are so damning.
>
> ============================================================================
Short-term memory problems, Phillips?
Along with the size of the grave examined (as Laura Finsten pointed out) were the
core samples containing human remains, burnt fat, ash, etc--in the strata predicted
by eyewitness testimony and existing documents.
>
>
> In fact,
> > the veracity of the Holocaust stands because its support is so varied: remove
> > the gas chambers, and you still have the documents.
> ====================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Very well, we have "removed" the gas chambers, meaning that we now admit
> there never any. OK, then how were the Jews killed?
>
> ==================================
71 years old and can't grasp a simple semantic variance, eh, Phillips?
>
>
> Remove the documents, and
> > you still have the excavations. Remove the excavations, and you still have
> > the photos. Remove the photos, and you still have Nazi testimony. On and on
> > and on.
>
> =====================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Let's see: we have removed the gas chambers, the documents, the
> excavations, and the photos. THe entire thing now rests entirely on Nazi
> testimony correct? Has anyone ever told you that when you want
> "confessions" badly enough, ther are ways of getting them. Rudolph
> Hoess, were he alive, could tell you a bit about that.
>
> =============================================================================
Rudolf Höss was alive, and when he was, he didn't say a word about it. (And don't use
the "wasn't allowed to write about it" canard. His memoirs were extremely critical of
the Allies and still espoused National Socialist beliefs, right up to his death. If
the Allies were coercing his memoirs, wouldn't it stand to reason they would excise
the critical parts and require him to renounce his beloved Nazism? He never did.)
Richard Phillips
Phillips
You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
===================================================================
Similarly, if you *do not consider* the memos, there are still
> photographs.
===============================================
Phillips
Yes I have seen some of your "photographs" with the usual caption: "See,
it's a gas chamber, stupid."
===================================================================
If you *do not consider* the photographs, there is still archaeological
> evidence. Etc. etc. Now, are there any more semantic hairs you would like to split?
> Or are you through lying now?
================================================================
Phillips
Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
=========================================
>
> >
> >
> > The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that.
> > ==============================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Tell me all about those Belzec excavations and why they are so damning.
> >
> > ============================================================================
>
> Short-term memory problems, Phillips?
>
> Along with the size of the grave examined (as Laura Finsten pointed out) were the
> core samples containing human remains, burnt fat, ash, etc--in the strata predicted
> by eyewitness testimony and existing documents.
===============================================================
Phillips
Which would serve as evidence that people died there. But we have never
denied that. Now just whaat does it tell us about HOW they died?
=============================
======================================================================
Phillips
It's about time your fraud was dumped in the trash can where it belongs.
>
For years now you people have been picking tidbits from your Nizkor
site. Well I have news for you. Now, we have one, too. Try this on for
size.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Auschwitz: Myths and facts
by Mark Weber
Nearly everyone has heard of Auschwitz, the German wartime concentration
camp where many prisoners --
most of them Jewish -- were reportedly exterminated, especially in gas
chambers. Auschwitz is widely
regarded as the most terrible Nazi extermination center. The camp's
horrific reputation cannot, however, be
reconciled with the facts.
Scholars challenge Holocaust story
Astonishing as it may seem, more and more historians and engineers have
been challenging the widely
accepted Auschwitz story. These "revisionist" scholars do not dispute
the fact that large numbers of Jews
were deported to the camp, or that many died there, particularly of
typhus and other diseases. But the
compelling evidence they present shows that Auschwitz was not an
extermination center and that the story of
mass killings in "gas chambers" is a myth.
The Auschwitz camps
The Auschwitz camp complex was set up in 1940 in what is now
south-central Poland. Large numbers of
Jews were deported there between 1942 and mid-1944.
The main camp was known as Auschwitz I. Birkenau, or Auschwitz II, was
supposedly the main
extermination center, and Monowitz, or Auschwitz III, was a large
industrial center where gasoline was
produced from coal. In addition there were dozens of smaller satellite
camps devoted to the war economy.
Four million victims?
At the postwar Nuremberg Tribunal, the Allies charged that the Germans
exterminated four million people at
Auschwitz. This figure, which was invented by the Soviets, was
uncritically accepted for many years. It often
appeared in major American newspapers and magazines, for example. (note
1)
Today no reputable historian, not even those who generally accept the
extermination story, believes this figure.
Israeli Holocaust historian Yehuda Bauer said in 1989 that it is time to
finally acknowledge the familiar four
million figure is a deliberate myth. In July 1990 the Auschwitz State
Museum in Poland, along with Israel's
Yad Vashem Holocaust Center, suddenly announced that altogether perhaps
one million people (both Jews
and non-Jews) died there. Neither institution would say how many of
these people were killed, nor were any
estimates given of the numbers of those supposedly gassed. (note 2) One
prominent Holocaust historian,
Gerald Reitlinger, has estimated that perhaps 700,000 or so Jews
perished at Auschwitz. More recently,
Holocaust historian Jean-Claude Pressac has estimated that about 800,000
persons -- of whom 630,000
were Jewish -- perished at Auschwitz. While even such lower figures are
incorrect, they show how the
Auschwitz story has changed drastically over the years. (note 3)
Bizarre tales
At one time it was seriously claimed that Jews were systematically
electrocuted at Auschwitz. American
newspapers, citing a Soviet eyewitness report from liberated Auschwitz,
told readers in February 1945 that
the methodical Germans had killed Jews there using an "electric conveyor
belt on which hundreds of persons
could be electrocuted simultaneously [and] then moved on into furnaces.
They were burned almost instantly,
producing fertilizer for nearby cabbage fields." (note 4)
And at the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
charged that the Germans used a
"newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near
Auschwitz "in such a way that there
was no trace left of them." (note 5) No reputable historian now accepts
either of these fanciful tales.
The Höss 'confession'
A key Holocaust document is the "confession" of former Auschwitz
commandant Rudolf Höss of April 5,
1946, which was submitted by the U.S. prosecution at the main Nuremberg
trial. (note 6)
Although it is still widely cited as solid proof for the Auschwitz
extermination story, it is actually a false
statement that was obtained by torture.
Many years after the war, British military intelligence sergeant Bernard
Clarke described how he and five
other British soldiers tortured the former commandant to obtain his
"confession." Höss himself privately
explained his ordeal in these words: "Certainly, I signed a statement
that I killed two and half million Jews. I
could just as well have said that it was five million Jews. There are
certain methods by which any confession
can be obtained, whether it is true or not." (note 7)
Even historians who generally accept the Holocaust extermination story
now acknowledge that many of the
specific statements made in the Höss "affidavit" are simply not true.
For one thing, no serious scholar now
claims that anything like two and a half or three million people
perished in Auschwitz.
The Höss "affidavit" further alleges that Jews were already being
exterminated by gas in the summer of 1941
at three other camps: Belzec, Treblinka and Wolzek. The "Wolzek" camp
mentioned by Höss is a total
invention. No such camp existed, and the name is no longer mentioned in
Holocaust literature. Moreover, the
story these days by those who believe in the Holocaust legend is that
gassings of Jews did not begin at
Auschwitz, Treblinka, or Belzec until sometime in 1942.
No documentary evidence
Many thousands of secret German documents dealing with Auschwitz were
confiscated after the war by the
Allies. Not a single one refers to a policy or program of extermination.
In fact, the extermination story cannot
be reconciled with the documentary evidence.
Many Jewish inmates unable to work
For example, it is often claimed that all Jews at Auschwitz who were
unable to work were immediately killed.
Jews who were too old, young, sick, or weak were supposedly gassed on
arrival, and only those who could
be worked to death were temporarily kept alive.
But the evidence shows that, in fact, a very high percentage of the
Jewish inmates were not able to work, and
were nevertheless not killed. For example, an internal German telex
message dated Sept. 4, 1943, from the
chief of the Labor Allocation department of the SS Economic and
Administrative Main Office (WVHA),
reported that of 25,000 Jewish inmates in Auschwitz, only 3,581 were
able to work, and that all of the
remaining Jewish inmates -- some 21,500, or about 86 percent -- were
unable to work. (note 8)
This is also confirmed in a secret report dated April 5, 1944, on
"security measures in Auschwitz" by Oswald
Pohl, head of the SS concentration camp system, to SS chief Heinrich
Himmler. Pohl reported that there was
a total of 67,000 inmates in the entire Auschwitz camp complex, of whom
18,000 were hospitalized or
disabled. In the Auschwitz II camp (Birkenau), supposedly the main
extermination center, there were 36,000
inmates, mostly female, of whom "approximately 15,000 are unable to
work." (note 9)
These two documents simply cannot be reconciled with the Auschwitz
extermination story.
The evidence shows that Auschwitz-Birkenau was established primarily as
a camp for Jews who were not
able to work, including the sick and elderly, as well as for those who
were temporarily awaiting assignment to
other camps. That's the considered view of Dr. Arthur Butz of
Northwestern University, who also says that
this was the reason for the unusually high death rate there. (note 10)
Princeton University history professor Arno Mayer, who is Jewish,
acknowledges in a recent book about the
"final solution" that more Jews perished at Auschwitz as a result of
typhus and other "natural" causes than
were executed. (note 11)
Anne Frank
Perhaps the best known Auschwitz inmate was Anne Frank, who is known
around the world for her famous
diary. But few people know that thousands of Jews, including Anne and
her father, Otto Frank, "survived"
Auschwitz.
The 15-year-old girl and her father were deported from the Netherlands
to Auschwitz in September 1944.
Several weeks later, in the face of the advancing Soviet army, Anne was
evacuated along with many other
Jews to the Bergen-Belsen camp, where she died of typhus in March 1945.
Her father came down with typhus in Auschwitz and was sent to the camp
hospital to recover. He was one of
thousands of sick and feeble Jews who were left behind when the Germans
abandoned the camp in January
1945, shortly before it was overrun by the Soviets. He died in
Switzerland in 1980.
If the German policy had been to kill Anne Frank and her father, they
would not have survived Auschwitz.
Their fate, tragic though it was, cannot be reconciled with the
extermination story.
Allied propaganda
The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay
statements of former Jewish inmates who
did not personally see any evidence of extermination. Their beliefs are
understandable, because rumors about
gassings at Auschwitz were widespread.
Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and
German, on Auschwitz and the
surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the
camp. The Auschwitz gassing story,
which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was
also broadcast to Europe by Allied
radio stations. (note 12)
Survivor testimony
Former inmates have confirmed that they saw no evidence of extermination
at Auschwitz.
An Austrian woman, Maria Vanherwaarden, testified about her camp
experiences in a Toronto District Court
in March 1988. She was interned in Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1942 for having
sexual relations with a Polish
forced laborer. On the train trip to the camp, a Gypsy woman told her
and the others that they would all be
gassed at Auschwitz.
Upon arrival, Maria and the other women were ordered to undress and go
into a large concrete room without
windows to take a shower. The terrified women were sure that they were
about to die. But then, instead of
gas, water came out of the shower heads.
Auschwitz was no vacation center, Maria confirmed. She witnessed the
death of many fellow inmates by
disease, particularly typhus, and quite a few committed suicide. But she
saw no evidence at all of mass
killings, gassings, or of any extermination program. (note 13)
A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from
Hungary in July 1944, when
25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily. She likewise
testified after the war that she heard
and saw nothing of "gas chambers" during the time she was interned
there. She heard the gassing stories only
later. (note 14)
Inmates released
Auschwitz internees who had served their sentences were released and
returned to their home countries. If
Auschwitz had actually been a top secret extermination center, the
Germans would certainly not have released
inmates who "knew" what was happening in the camp. (note 15)
Himmler orders death rate reduced
In response to the deaths of many inmates due to disease, especially
typhus, the German authorities
responsible for the camps ordered firm counter-measures.
The head of the SS camp administration office sent a directive dated
Dec. 28, 1942, to Auschwitz and the
other concentration camps. It sharply criticized the high death rate of
inmates due to disease, and ordered that
"camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to significantly
reduce the death rate in the various
camps." Furthermore, it ordered:
The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the
nutrition of the prisoners and,
in cooperation with the administration, submit improvement
recommendations to the camp
commandants . . . The camp doctors are to see to it that the
working conditions at the various
labor places are improved as much as possible.
Finally, the directive stressed that "the Reichsfhrer SS [Heinrich
Himmler] has ordered that the death rate
absolutely must be reduced." (note 16)
German camp regulations
Official German camp regulations make clear that Auschwitz was not an
extermination center. They ordered:
(note 17)
New arrivals in the camp are to be given a thorough medical
examination, and if there is any
doubt [about their health], they must be sent to quarantine for
observation.
Prisoners who report sick must be examined that same day by the
camp physician. If necessary,
the physician must transfer the prisoners to a hospital for
professional treatment.
The camp physician must regularly inspect the kitchen regarding the
preparation of the food and
the quality of the food supply. Any deficiencies that may arise
must be reported to the camp
commandant.
Special care should be given in the treatment of accidents, in
order not to impair the full
productivity of the prisoners.
Prisoners who are to be released or transfered must first be
brought before the camp physician
for medical examination.
Telltale aerial photos
Detailed aerial reconnaissance photographs taken of Auschwitz-Birkenau
on several random days in 1944
(during the height of the alleged extermination period there) were made
public by the CIA in 1979. These
photos show no trace of piles of corpses, smoking crematory chimneys or
masses of Jews awaiting death,
things that have been repeatedly alleged, and all of which would have
been clearly visible if Auschwitz had
been the extermination center it is said to have been. (note 18)
Absurd cremation claims
Cremation specialists have confirmed that thousands of corpses could not
possibly have been cremated every
day throughout the spring and summer of 1944 at Auschwitz, as commonly
alleged.
For example, Mr. Ivan Lagace, manager of a large crematory in Calgary,
Canada, testified in court in April
1988 that the Auschwitz cremation story is technically impossible. The
allegation that 10,000 or even 20,000
corpses were burned every day at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944 in
crematories and open pits is simply
"preposterous" and "beyond the realm of reality," he declared under
oath. (note 19)
Gassing expert refutes extermination story
America's leading gas chamber expert, Boston engineer Fred A. Leuchter,
carefully examined the supposed
"gas chambers" in Poland and concluded that the Auschwitz gassing story
is absurd and technically
impossible.
Leuchter is the foremost specialist on the design and installation of
gas chambers used in the United States to
execute convicted criminals. For example, he designed a gas chamber
facility for the Missouri state
penitentiary.
In February 1988 he carried out a detailed onsite examination of the
"gas chambers" at Auschwitz, Birkenau
and Majdanek in Poland, which are either still standing or only
partially in ruins. In sworn testimony to a
Toronto court and in a technical report, Leuchter described every aspect
of his investigation.
He concluded by emphatically declaring that the alleged gassing
facilities could not possibly have been used to
kill people. Among other things, he pointed out that the so-called "gas
chambers" were not properly sealed or
vented to kill human beings without also killing German camp personnel.
(note 20)
Dr. William B. Lindsey, a research chemist employed for 33 years by the
Dupont Corporation, likewise
testified in a 1985 court case that the Auschwitz gassing story is
technically impossible. Based on a careful
on-site examination of the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz, Birkenau and
Majdanek, and on his years of
experience, he declared: "I have come to the conclusion that no one was
willfully or purposefully killed with
Zyklon B [hydrocyanic acid gas] in this manner. I consider it absolutely
impossible." (note 21)
Notes
1.Nuremberg document 008-USSR. IMT blue series, Vol. 39, pp. 241,
261.; NC and A red series, vol.
1, p. 35.; C.L. Sulzberger, "Oswiecim Killings Placed at
4,000,000," New York Times, May 8, 1945,
and, New York Times, Jan. 31, 1986, p. A4.
2.Y. Bauer, "Fighting the Distortions," Jerusalem Post (Israel),
Sept. 22, 1989; "Auschwitz Deaths
Reduced to a Million," Daily Telegraph (London), July 17, 1990;
"Poland Reduces Auschwitz Death
Toll Estimate to 1 Million," The Washington Times, July 17, 1990.
3.G. Reitlinger, The Final Solution (1971); J.-C. Pressac, Le
Cr¦matoires d'Auschwitz: La
Machinerie du meurtre de mass (Paris: CNRS, 1993). On Pressac's
estimates, see: L'Express
(France), Sept. 30, 1993, p. 33.
4.Washington (DC) Daily News, Feb. 2, 1945, pp. 2, 35. (United Press
dispatch from Moscow).
5.IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21, 1946).
6.Nuremberg document 3868-PS (USA-819). IMT blue series, Vol. 33, pp.
275-279.
7.Rupert Butler, Legions of Death (England: 1983), pp. 235; R.
Faurisson, The Journal of Historical
Review, Winter 1986-87, pp. 389-403.
8.Archives of the Jewish Historical Institute of Warsaw, German
document No. 128, in: H. Eschwege,
ed., Kennzeichen J (East Berlin: 1966), p. 264.
9.Nuremberg document NO-021. NMT green series, Vol. 5. pp. 384-385.
10.Arthur Butz, The Hoax of the Twentieth Century (Costa Mesa,
Calif.), p. 124.
11.Arno Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The 'Final Solution'
in History (Pantheon, 1989),
p. 365.
12.Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT green series, Vol. 8, p. 606.
13.Testimony in Toronto District Court, March 28, 1988. Toronto Star,
March 29, 1988, p. A2.
14.Sylvia Rothchild, ed., Voices from the Holocaust (New York: 1981),
pp. 188-191.
15.Walter Laqueur, The Terrible Secret (Boston: 1981), p. 169.
16.Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2. NC&A red series, Vol. 4, pp.
833-834.
17."Rules and Regulations for the Concentration Camps." Anthology,
Inhuman Medicine, Vol. 1, Part 1
(Warsaw: International Auschwitz Committee, 1970), pp. 149-151.; S.
Paskuly, ed., Death Dealer:
the Memoirs of the SS Kommandant at Auschwitz (Buffalo: 1992), pp.
216-217.
18.Dino A. Brugioni and Robert C. Poirier, The Holocaust Revisited
(Washington, DC: Central
Intelligence Agency, 1979).
19.Canadian Jewish News (Toronto), April 14, 1988, p. 6.
20.The Leuchter Report: An Engineering Report on the Alleged Execution
Gas Chambers at
Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek (Toronto: 1988). Available for
$17.00, postpaid, from the IHR.
21.The Globe and Mail (Toronto), Feb. 12, 1985, p. M3
Summary
The Auschwitz extermination story originated as wartime propaganda. Now,
more than 40 years after the end
of the Second World War, it is time to take another, more objective look
at this highly polemicized chapter of
history. The Auschwitz legend is the core of the Holocaust story. If
hundreds of thousands of Jews were not
systematically killed there, as alleged, one of the great myths of our
time collapses.
Artificially maintaining the hatreds and passions of the past prevents
genuine reconciliation and lasting peace.
Revisionism promotes historical awareness and international
understanding. That is why the work of the
Institute for Historical Review is so important and deserves your
support.
Mark Weber is editor of The Journal of Historical Review, published six
times yearly by the Institute for
Historical Review. He studied history at the University of Illinois
(Chicago), the University of Munich,
Portland State University, and Indiana University (M.A., 1977). For five
days in March 1988, he testified as
a recognized expert witness on the "final solution" and the Holocaust
issue in a Toronto District Court case.
He is the author of many published articles, reviews and essays on
various aspects of modern European
history. Weber has appeared as a guest on numerous radio talk shows, and
on the nationally-syndicated
"Montel Williams" television show.
Last modified: 10/93
Main | Leaflets | Journal | Books | Contact us | Search
Richard Phillips
============================================================
Phillips
I do recall having an exchange with Laura Finsten (no relation to
"Feinstein," of course) on the matter of excavations. I do not recall
that it was Belzec that we were talking about but, then, this was
something like a year and a half ago and at the time it seemed to me
pretty much of a tangential issue.
================================
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>OK,
>then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
>VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
>breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
This is what happens when someone tries to provide Liar Philllips with the
evidence he claims to want:
In an article <http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=317091642> posted on 18
Jan 1998, Richard Phillips <rgp...@earthlink.net> wrote:
I hereby make to Ms Laura Finsten the following offer:
Agree to snail-mail me one (just ONE) facsimile of a gas
chamber drawing produced by a Hitler-era German construction
company and I will pay you, in advance, $100.
About a month later, on 23 Feb 1998, Richard Phillips
<rgp...@earthlink.net> responded to an inquiry from Steve Mock
<sm...@veritas.nizkor.org> thusly
<http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=328061340>:
sm...@veritas.nizkor.org wrote:
> [...deletia...]
> Tell me, Phillips, is the offer still good?
> I happen to have a copy of Pressac on loan for the next little while, and
> don't have a whole lot of pressing business at work tomorrow. So, what the
> hell?
>
> Steve Mock
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
============================================================
Phillips
Is the offer still open? Yes it is, but the requirements are strict.
(1) The drawings are to be snail-mailed to me at
Richard Phillips
55 Crystal Ave, #311
Derry, NH 03038
(2) The drawings are to be full-sized because a reduced-size
drawing would make it impossible to make out the logo of the
designing company.
(3) The drawings (in addition to being full-sized) must be
sufficiently clear so that I can make out the logo of the company that
built them and the signature of the approving engineer.
(4) The drawings must show me exactly how the structure was put
together. what sort of structural members were used? I-beams, angle
irons. Were they assembled by welding or riveting.
(5) I will need details of the gas-tight door. Was it built by that
company or was it a purchased part. What sort of sealing gasket was
used.
(6) I will need to know the specification and placement of all motors,
vans, ventilators, etc.
(7) I will need full electrical wiring diagrams including switch
boxes, fuses, circuit-breakers, emergency cutouts, etc. Did the facility
use electrical power already at the camp or did it
generate its own.
(8) I will need drawings showing exactly how the lethal agent was
introduced into the chamber.
(9) I will need to know whether assembly took place at the
company's or whether the facility ewas shipped in kit form and
assembled at the camp.
(10) I will also need to see a manual giving the following:
(a) Instructions for use. (This would include considerable
material on what we today would call 'crowd control.' After all,
people who know they are for the chop can get unpredictable.) These
instructions will also explain how to introduce the lethal agent, the
time needed for execution, time and procedure needed for defuming.
(b) Procedures for maintenance and troulbeshooting. This would have
to include a list of replacement parts.
If you have all of that, we can talk about it. Be assured that your
labour will be liberally reimbursed.
Two months later, on 29 Apr 1998, Philllips posted his now-famous lie
<http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=348715783>:
steve mock wrote:
> [...deletia...]
> Well, for crying out loud, Phillips - that was only because you kept
> changing your criterea every time I met them.
=====================================
Phillips
My demands now are exactly what they were at the beginning.
Simple comparison of the first two posts clearly shows that Philllips'
demands were anything but "what they were at the beginning". He has, of
course, gone on to post many more lies -- but this is the one that earned
him his nickname.
Liar Philllips is also lying when he claims that he "originally posed a
fairly formidable list of requirements" and later "backed off a bit". The
facts show that he did the exact opposite -- and then lied about making
any change at all.
steve wolk
I'll take 3 weeks.
Steve
steve wolk
> Phillips
>
> I do recall having an exchange with Laura Finsten (no relation to
> "Feinstein," of course) on the matter of excavations. I do not recall
> that it was Belzec that we were talking about but, then, this was
> something like a year and a half ago and at the time it seemed to me
> pretty much of a tangential issue.
>
> ================================
Damn!
Steve
Buck Turgidson
Are you being deliberately stupid? I am not saying that we assume in any way that the gas
chambers did not exist. I am saying, hypothetically, that if somehow the evidence of the
gas chambers themselves did not exist--and they do, at Majdanek for example--we still have
other evidence that corroborates the gassings. (Not to mention rifle executions by the EG,
deaths by typhus, Sondervans, etc.) The preponderance of evidence is so weighty that even
if the gas chambers were no longer extant, we would be able to prove that they had existed
and were used to slaughter Jews, Gypsies, and others.
Enough semantic gymnastics for you? Or are you going to play dumb again?
>
>
> Similarly, if you *do not consider* the memos, there are still
> > photographs.
> ===============================================
> Phillips
>
> Yes I have seen some of your "photographs" with the usual caption: "See,
> it's a gas chamber, stupid."
>
> ===================================================================
Not the ones I was thinking of. I was thinking of the piles and piles of dead bodies. The
starved inmates peering through barbed wire. The high-altitude "experiments." The photo of
bodies being dragged to the burning-pit. Photos of the EG assassinating helpless women.
The Nazi with his rifle raised and aimed at a woman sheltering her child. Slit trenches
with the naked dead within, surrounded by SS men. The truckload of skeletal dead with
grinning SS men nearby. Films of the dead being pushed into mass graves by bulldozer.
Films of inmates dragging the dead to burial pits.
Those photos. Stupid.
>
>
> If you *do not consider* the photographs, there is still archaeological
> > evidence. Etc. etc. Now, are there any more semantic hairs you would like to split?
> > Or are you through lying now?
>
> ================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
> there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
>
> =========================================
En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that.
> > > ==============================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > Tell me all about those Belzec excavations and why they are so damning.
> > >
> > > ============================================================================
> >
> > Short-term memory problems, Phillips?
> >
> > Along with the size of the grave examined (as Laura Finsten pointed out) were the
> > core samples containing human remains, burnt fat, ash, etc--in the strata predicted
> > by eyewitness testimony and existing documents.
>
> ===============================================================
> Phillips
>
> Which would serve as evidence that people died there. But we have never
> denied that. Now just whaat does it tell us about HOW they died?
>
> =============================
En masse. And in a manner consistent with documents and memoirs of the Nazis themselves.
It'll take a better man than you to do it.
>
> >
> For years now you people have been picking tidbits from your Nizkor
> site. Well I have news for you. Now, we have one, too. Try this on for
> size.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Auschwitz: Myths and facts
<massive smoke screen blown away>
Now, Phillips, since we have defenestrated your attempt to render the topic uselessly
top-heavy, perhaps you will answer the obvious question: what proof do you have that
Rudolf Höss was coerced into his statement? (It was that last bit of logic that pissed you
off, wasn't it? The bit about how Höss was actually critical in his memoirs of the Allies.
That he still espoused Nazism in his final words. That put the lie to your "torture" claim
and brought your hapless attempt to cloud the issue, didn't it?)
Simple question, Phillips. All we ask is some proof.
Richard Phillips
==============================================================================
Phillips
No, for once I'm going to be smart because I've finally cottoned on to
what your latest racket is. You are, just a wee bit at a time, beginning
to distance yourselves from the gassing fantasy because you are coming
to realize --just a wee bit at a time-- that it's no longer tenable.
Well I'm not going to let you off the hook; we're going to get to the
bottom of this, once and for all. So, until the question is settled, we
are going to talk about gas chambers and nothing else.
THEREFORE: Please answer the question:Is it your contention that Jews
(and possibly others) were executed en masse in mass-execution gas
chambers designed for that purpose. Yes or no.
If your answer is yes, provide me with irrefutable proof of it.
If your answer is no, then the lot of you stand convicted of having been
the most colossal self-confessed liars who ever walked the earth.
=====================================================================================================
>
> >
> >
> > Similarly, if you *do not consider* the memos, there are still
> > > photographs.
> > ===============================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Yes I have seen some of your "photographs" with the usual caption: "See,
> > it's a gas chamber, stupid."
> >
> > ===================================================================
>
> Not the ones I was thinking of. I was thinking of the piles and piles of dead bodies.
============================================================================
Phillips
No one has ever denied that people died in those places.
====================================================
The
> starved inmates peering through barbed wire. The high-altitude "experiments." The photo of
> bodies being dragged to the burning-pit.
=====================================================
Phillips
You mean to tell me that the camp authorities allowed such things to BE
photographed? The usual story is that the Krauts were very careful to
cover their tracks.
=======================================================
Photos of the EG assassinating helpless women.
> The Nazi with his rifle raised and aimed at a woman sheltering her child.
================================================================
Phillips
Yes I have seen that very photo. THere are certain things about it that
are not quite right.
==============================================================
Slit trenches
> with the naked dead within, surrounded by SS men. The truckload of skeletal dead with
> grinning SS men nearby. Films of the dead being pushed into mass graves by bulldozer.
> Films of inmates dragging the dead to burial pits.
==========================================================================
Phillips
Which proves no more than that people died there. This has never been in
dispute.
==================================================
>
> Those photos. Stupid.
>
> >
> >
> > If you *do not consider* the photographs, there is still archaeological
> > > evidence. Etc. etc. Now, are there any more semantic hairs you would like to split?
> > > Or are you through lying now?
> >
> > ================================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
> > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
> >
> > =========================================
>
> En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
====================================================================
Phillips
Still no proofs of deaths by gassing. I know all about your
"testimonies."
===============================================
===========================================================
Phillips
Precisely; which is why I have called upon my friend Mark Weber for
help. If you people can play websites, why shouldn't we?
===================================================================
>
> >
> > >
> > For years now you people have been picking tidbits from your Nizkor
> > site. Well I have news for you. Now, we have one, too. Try this on for
> > size.
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Auschwitz: Myths and facts
>
> <massive smoke screen blown away>
>
> Now, Phillips, since we have defenestrated your attempt to render the topic uselessly
> top-heavy,
===========================================================
Phillips
I was pretty certain you wouldn't be able to deal with it, but there was
no harm in proving it.
======================================================================
perhaps you will answer the obvious question: what proof do you have
that
> Rudolf Höss was coerced into his statement? (It was that last bit of logic that pissed you
> off, wasn't it? The bit about how Höss was actually critical in his memoirs of the Allies.
> That he still espoused Nazism in his final words. That put the lie to your "torture" claim
> and brought your hapless attempt to cloud the issue, didn't it?)
>
> Simple question, Phillips. All we ask is some proof.
===============================================================
Phillips
It's all spelled out in the book "Legion of the Damned" by Rupert Brook.
The man principally responsible, Bernard Clarke, is today a successful
British businessman. Anytime you like, go over there and ask him about
it. He will talk quite freely because he does not feel the slightest
remorse for what he did.
=============================================
>
Laura Finsten
>I do recall having an exchange with Laura Finsten (no relation to
>"Feinstein," of course)
I have no relations who spell their name "Feinstein", you are correct.
Desperate to draw attention away from the Belzec graves, with the
introduction of this 'tangential issue', I see.
> on the matter of excavations. I do not recall
>that it was Belzec that we were talking about but, then, this was
>something like a year and a half ago and at the time it seemed to me
>pretty much of a tangential issue.
Your recollection is faulty - the bulk of the work done at Belzec had
only begun a year and a half ago, and the report giving the details
that make it possible to estimate the total volume devoted to graves
was released about two months ago.
Imagine a hole dug into the ground the size of a football field, Mr.
Philllllips, and as a deep as a four-storey building is tall. Most of
it filled with the cremated remains of humans. Easily room for the
more than 500,000 estimated by other means to have been killed at
Belzec.
But of course you would call it a 'tangential issue'. Everything you
can't deal with is a 'tangent'. But your fun and games with my
surname is a real issue, right?
LF
Laura Finsten
wrote:
>I'll take 3 weeks.
Hey!! That's within the time frame I picked! And mine is on record
first!! Geesh.
LF
Richard Phillips
>
> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:46:09 -0400, Richard Phillips
> >"Feinstein," of course)
>
> I have no relations who spell their name "Feinstein", you are correct.
Phillips
You mean ALL your relations changed the name.
=================================================
> Desperate to draw attention away from the Belzec graves, with the
> introduction of this 'tangential issue', I see.
>
> > on the matter of excavations. I do not recall
> >that it was Belzec that we were talking about but, then, this was
> >something like a year and a half ago and at the time it seemed to me
> >pretty much of a tangential issue.
>
> Your recollection is faulty - the bulk of the work done at Belzec had
> only begun a year and a half ago, and the report giving the details
> that make it possible to estimate the total volume devoted to graves
> was released about two months ago.
=============================================================
Phillips
(1) I was derided in certain quarters for having forgotten the exchange
entirely. As you now see, this was not so.
(2) I spoke of the matter as "tangential" because for me the big issue
at that time was my vain attempt to get convincing proofs of the gas
chambers.
(3) Your tune seems to have changed. Whereas now you are telling us that
there is good evidence of 500,000 people buried at Belzec, at that time
you were attempting to justify the embarrassing ABSENCE of verifiable
remains. Your position at that time was that the decades-long
interaction of the soil on corpses would make it impossible to establish
any figure with reliability. But then you people have always been
adaptible in matters of this sort.
(4) To the best of my recollection, the big exchange between you and
myself was over a year ago. If there was a much more recent one, then
produce the posts and I will admit my mistake.
(5) I have said many times; NEVER attempt to deprive the Jews of their
suffering. It's the most priceless possessien they have.
===============================================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>If your answer is no, then the lot of you stand convicted of having been
>the most colossal self-confessed liars who ever walked the earth.
Liar Philllips is, of course, trying to drag everyone else down to his
level -- since he is already a self-confessed liar.
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>I spoke of the matter as "tangential" because for me the big issue
>at that time was my vain attempt to get convincing proofs of the gas
>chambers.
Here's why all of Liar's attempts are "vain" -- he runs away when the
evidence approaches:
JGB
Richard Phillips
======================================================================
Phillips
In exactly what way is it "consistent" with your testimonies. I mean:
what is it about the nature and disposition of those corpses that makes
it more likely that they were executed rather than that they died of
disease or malnutrition.
=================================================
Richard Phillips
===============================================================
Phillips
OK, you say you can prove that the gas chambers existed and were used to
kill Jews. PROVE IT.
====================================================================
>
> Enough semantic gymnastics for you? Or are you going to play dumb again?
>
> >
> >
> > Similarly, if you *do not consider* the memos, there are still
> > > photographs.
> > ===============================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Yes I have seen some of your "photographs" with the usual caption: "See,
> > it's a gas chamber, stupid."
> >
> > ===================================================================
>
> Not the ones I was thinking of. I was thinking of the piles and piles of dead bodies. The
> starved inmates peering through barbed wire. The high-altitude "experiments." The photo of
> bodies being dragged to the burning-pit. Photos of the EG assassinating helpless women.
> The Nazi with his rifle raised and aimed at a woman sheltering her child. Slit trenches
> with the naked dead within, surrounded by SS men. The truckload of skeletal dead with
> grinning SS men nearby. Films of the dead being pushed into mass graves by bulldozer.
> Films of inmates dragging the dead to burial pits.
=====================================================================
>
> Those photos. Stupid.
=====================================================
Phillips
Are you telling me that the Germans ALLOWED such photographs to be
taken. And all this time I thought they had been so careful in covering
their tracks. Leastways you people are quick to advance that argument
when it suits your purpose to do so.
==========================================================
>
> >
> >
> > If you *do not consider* the photographs, there is still archaeological
> > > evidence. Etc. etc. Now, are there any more semantic hairs you would like to split?
> > > Or are you through lying now?
> >
> > ================================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
> > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
> >
> > =========================================
>
> En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
=================================================================
Phillips
In just what way are they "consistent" with those testimonies of yours.
===============================================================
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that.
> > > > ==============================================================
> > > > Phillips
> > > >
> > > > Tell me all about those Belzec excavations and why they are so damning.
> > > >
> > > > ============================================================================
> > >
> > > Short-term memory problems, Phillips?
> > >
> > > Along with the size of the grave examined (as Laura Finsten pointed out) were the
> > > core samples containing human remains, burnt fat, ash, etc--in the strata predicted
> > > by eyewitness testimony and existing documents.
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Which would serve as evidence that people died there. But we have never
> > denied that. Now just whaat does it tell us about HOW they died?
> >
> > =============================
>
> En masse. And in a manner consistent with documents and memoirs of the Nazis themselves.
=================================================================
Phillips
In just what way are they "consistent" with those testimonies of yours.
===============================================================
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In fact,
> > > > > the veracity of the Holocaust stands because its support is so varied: remove
> > > > > the gas chambers, and you still have the documents.
> > > > ====================================================================
> > > > Phillips
> > > >
> > > > Very well, we have "removed" the gas chambers, meaning that we now admit
> > > > there never any. OK, then how were the Jews killed?
> > > >
> > > > ==================================
> > >
> > > 71 years old and can't grasp a simple semantic variance, eh, Phillips?
============================================================
Phillips
i admit to a problem with unclarity.
=======================================
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Remove the documents, and
> > > > > you still have the excavations. Remove the excavations, and you still have
> > > > > the photos. Remove the photos, and you still have Nazi testimony. On and on
> > > > > and on.
> > > >
> > > > =====================================================================
> > > > Phillips
> > > >
> > > > Let's see: we have removed the gas chambers, the documents, the
> > > > excavations, and the photos. THe entire thing now rests entirely on Nazi
> > > > testimony correct? Has anyone ever told you that when you want
> > > > "confessions" badly enough, ther are ways of getting them. Rudolph
> > > > Hoess, were he alive, could tell you a bit about that.
> > > >
> > > > =============================================================================
> > >
> > > Rudolf Höss was alive, and when he was, he didn't say a word about it. (And don't use
> > > the "wasn't allowed to write about it" canard. His memoirs were extremely critical of
> > > the Allies and still espoused National Socialist beliefs, right up to his death. If
> > > the Allies were coercing his memoirs, wouldn't it stand to reason they would excise
> > > the critical parts and require him to renounce his beloved Nazism? He never did.)
=================================================================
Phillips
I dealt with the Hoess matter in another post - one which you should
have seen by now.
> >
> > ======================================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > It's about time your fraud was dumped in the trash can where it belongs.
>
> It'll take a better man than you to do it.
=================================================================
Phillips
Precisely, which is why I have called upon the resources compiled by my
friend Mark Weber.
If you people can play websites, there is no reason why we shouldn't.
==================================================
>
> >
> > >
> > For years now you people have been picking tidbits from your Nizkor
> > site. Well I have news for you. Now, we have one, too. Try this on for
> > size.
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Auschwitz: Myths and facts
>
> <massive smoke screen blown away>
>
> Now, Phillips, since we have defenestrated your attempt to render the topic uselessly
> top-heavy,
================================================================
Phillips
I knew that you wouldn't be able to deal with it but tthere was no harm
in proving it.
===========================================================
perhaps you will answer the obvious question: what proof do you have
that
> Rudolf Höss was coerced into his statement? (It was that last bit of logic that pissed you
> off, wasn't it? The bit about how Höss was actually critical in his memoirs of the Allies.
> That he still espoused Nazism in his final words. That put the lie to your "torture" claim
> and brought your hapless attempt to cloud the issue, didn't it?)
>
> Simple question, Phillips. All we ask is some proof.
==========================================================
Phillips
I dealt with the Hoess matter in a previous posting. Either you haven't
seen it or else it suits your purpose to pretend that you haven't.
=============================================================================
>
>
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>OK, you say you can prove that the gas chambers existed and were used to
>kill Jews. PROVE IT.
It's been proven. Philllips runs away from evidence when it is presented
to him -- and then lies about what he did:
Orac
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
> then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
> VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
> breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
These figures have been provided to you again and again and again, and you
know it. Yet, every few months, you ask the same question, as if you have
no memory of its previously being answered. What's wrong, developing
Alzheimer's?
Richard Phillips
>
> In article <37EEC9EC...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> > You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
> > then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
> > VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
> > breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
>
> know it. Yet, every few months, you ask the same question, as if you have
> no memory of its previously being answered. What's wrong, developing
> Alzheimer's?
=====================================================
Phillips
I do not deny they may have been posted but, if they were, I did not
take careful notice at the time. Do YOU have the ability to infallibly
remember, over a period of years, every fact and statistic that gets
posted here. If you have then you are a man whom I very much envy.
Also, do not presume an ability to diagnose Alzheimer's. I have seen it.
It is much more than not remembering year-old statistics. It is a total
loss of hand/brain coordination. I know because my mother came down with
it in her final years.
=============================================================
steve wolk
>
> Orac wrote:
> >
> > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >
> > > You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
> > > then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
> > > VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
> > > breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
> >
> > know it. Yet, every few months, you ask the same question, as if you have
> > no memory of its previously being answered. What's wrong, developing
> > Alzheimer's?
>
> =====================================================
> Phillips
>
> I do not deny they may have been posted but, if they were, I did not
> take careful notice at the time. Do YOU have the ability to infallibly
> remember, over a period of years, every fact and statistic that gets
> posted here. If you have then you are a man whom I very much envy.
>
> Also, do not presume an ability to diagnose Alzheimer's. I have seen it.
> It is much more than not remembering year-old statistics. It is a total
> loss of hand/brain coordination. I know because my mother came down with
> it in her final years.
Hello, Richard. Now that Hallowe'en is fast approaching us, I just
wonder if you've encountered any vampires lately. Or did Dan Quayle
scare them away with his visit to Derry?
Steve
Richard Phillips
>
> Richard Phillips wrote:
> >
> > Orac wrote:
> > >
> > > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
> > > > then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
> > > > VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
> > > > breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
> > >
> > > know it. Yet, every few months, you ask the same question, as if you have
> > > no memory of its previously being answered. What's wrong, developing
> > > Alzheimer's?
> >
> > =====================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > I do not deny they may have been posted but, if they were, I did not
> > take careful notice at the time. Do YOU have the ability to infallibly
> > remember, over a period of years, every fact and statistic that gets
> > posted here. If you have then you are a man whom I very much envy.
> >
> > Also, do not presume an ability to diagnose Alzheimer's. I have seen it.
> > It is much more than not remembering year-old statistics. It is a total
> > loss of hand/brain coordination. I know because my mother came down with
> > it in her final years.
>
> Hello, Richard. Now that Hallowe'en is fast approaching us, I just
> wonder if you've encountered any vampires lately. Or did Dan Quayle
> scare them away with his visit to Derry?
>
> Steve
=======================================================
Phillips
Buchanan in 2000. A chicken in every pot and two liberals dangling from
every lamppost.
=========================================================
> >
>
Orac
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Orac wrote:
> >
> > In article <37EEC9EC...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >
> > > You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
> > > then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
> > > VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
> > > breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
> >
> > These figures have been provided to you again and again and again, and you
> > know it. Yet, every few months, you ask the same question, as if you have
> > no memory of its previously being answered. What's wrong, developing
> > Alzheimer's?
>
> =====================================================
> Phillips
>
> I do not deny they may have been posted but, if they were, I did not
> take careful notice at the time. Do YOU have the ability to infallibly
> remember, over a period of years, every fact and statistic that gets
> posted here. If you have then you are a man whom I very much envy.
You don't have to remember each and every fact and statistic to know that
they've been posted again and again in response to your constant demands
for "physical evidence." I don't claim to remember "each and every"
statistic and fact posted in response to your demands, but I remember that
they were posted on multiple occasions. Your failure to remember such
evidence time and time again simply demonstrates to me that you either
ignored it the first time around or you don't want to remember.
> Also, do not presume an ability to diagnose Alzheimer's. I have seen it.
> It is much more than not remembering year-old statistics. It is a total
> loss of hand/brain coordination. I know because my mother came down with
> it in her final years.
I'm sorry if I hit a sore spot and that your mother had such an awful
disease. Nonetheless, don't presume to lecture me on diagnosing
Alzheimer's either. I'm a physician, remember?
The Messenger
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> In article <37EF58B6...@mediaone.net>, Admitted Liar and Nazi
> Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >OK, you say you can prove that the gas chambers existed and were used to
> >kill Jews. PROVE IT.
>
> It's been proven. Philllips runs away from evidence when it is presented
> to him -- and then lies about what he did:
Hey Phillips:
Would pictures of the stacks and stacks of dead Jewish bodies taken by the Nazi
Germans themselves do instead? We have lots of them as reminders of a dark, dank,
and ugly past.
The Messenger
Richard Phillips
>
> "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> > In article <37EF58B6...@mediaone.net>, Admitted Liar and Nazi
> > Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >
> > >kill Jews. PROVE IT.
> >
> > to him -- and then lies about what he did:
>
> Hey Phillips:
> Would pictures of the stacks and stacks of dead Jewish bodies taken by the Nazi
> Germans themselves do instead? We have lots of them as reminders of a dark, dank,
> and ugly past.
>
> The Messenger
==================================================
Phillips
I've said it a dozen times already and I will probably have to say it an
additional dozen times in the future. We have never disputed the fact
that many people died at those places. What is in question is HOW they
died.
========================================================================
Richard Phillips
>
> In article <37EF95BA...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> > Orac wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <37EEC9EC...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> > > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
> > > > then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
> > > > VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
> > > > breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
> > >
> > > know it. Yet, every few months, you ask the same question, as if you have
> > > no memory of its previously being answered. What's wrong, developing
> > > Alzheimer's?
> >
> > =====================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > I do not deny they may have been posted but, if they were, I did not
> > take careful notice at the time. Do YOU have the ability to infallibly
> > remember, over a period of years, every fact and statistic that gets
> > posted here. If you have then you are a man whom I very much envy.
>
> You don't have to remember each and every fact and statistic to know that
> they've been posted again and again in response to your constant demands
> for "physical evidence." I don't claim to remember "each and every"
> statistic and fact posted in response to your demands, but I remember that
> they were posted on multiple occasions. Your failure to remember such
> evidence time and time again simply demonstrates to me that you either
> ignored it the first time around or you don't want to remember.
===============================================================
Phillips
If I do not remember posted figures on non-gas-chamber deaths, it is
probably because (to the best of my recollection) I was never very much
interested in them. My primary concern has been a two-year-long attempt
to get conclusive evidence regarding the gas chambers. So far I''ve had
no success.
=============================================================
steve wolk
>
> steve wolk wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Orac wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
> > > > > then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
> > > > > VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
> > > > > breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
> > > >
> > > > know it. Yet, every few months, you ask the same question, as if you have
> > > > no memory of its previously being answered. What's wrong, developing
> > > > Alzheimer's?
> > >
> > > =====================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > I do not deny they may have been posted but, if they were, I did not
> > > take careful notice at the time. Do YOU have the ability to infallibly
> > > remember, over a period of years, every fact and statistic that gets
> > > posted here. If you have then you are a man whom I very much envy.
> > >
> > > It is much more than not remembering year-old statistics. It is a total
> > > loss of hand/brain coordination. I know because my mother came down with
> > > it in her final years.
> >
> > wonder if you've encountered any vampires lately. Or did Dan Quayle
> > scare them away with his visit to Derry?
> >
> > Steve
>
> =======================================================
> Phillips
>
> Buchanan in 2000. A chicken in every pot and two liberals dangling from
> every lamppost.
You left out the tax credit for excess toilet paper consumption. If I
was as cruel as you are, I would have said "That's because you're full
of shit".
Steve
Steve
>
> =========================================================
> > >
> >
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>My primary concern has been a two-year-long attempt
>to get conclusive evidence regarding the gas chambers. So far I''ve had
>no success.
That, of course, is because Liar Philllips runs away from the evidence
when it is presented to him:
steve wolk
>
> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:39:10 -0400, steve wolk <sjw...@erols.com>
>
> Hey!! That's within the time frame I picked! And mine is on record
> first!! Geesh.
>
> LF
Oops! Sorry! But isn't it academic now?
Steve
steve wolk
>
> The Messenger wrote:
> >
> > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> >
> > > >kill Jews. PROVE IT.
> > >
> > > to him -- and then lies about what he did:
> >
> > Hey Phillips:
> > Would pictures of the stacks and stacks of dead Jewish bodies taken by the Nazi
> > Germans themselves do instead? We have lots of them as reminders of a dark, dank,
> > and ugly past.
> >
> > The Messenger
>
> ==================================================
> Phillips
>
> I've said it a dozen times already and I will probably have to say it an
> additional dozen times in the future. We have never disputed the fact
> that many people died at those places. What is in question is HOW they
> died.
>
No, what is in question is your credibility. After all, you are the man
who denies mountains of evidence about the Holocaust and yet professes a
belief in vampires, Jewish ritual murder and, saints preserve us, the
coming toilet paper shortage to be caused by Y2K. You must have done
some nasty drugs to get your brain as fried as this.
Steve
> ========================================================================
Laura Finsten
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:46:09 -0400, Richard Phillips
>> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
[...]
>> >I do recall having an exchange with Laura Finsten (no relation to
>> >"Feinstein," of course)
>> I have no relations who spell their name "Feinstein", you are correct.
>You mean ALL your relations changed the name.
I am unaware of any of my relations having changed their names, except
for women who adopted their husbands' surnames.
But perhaps you would care to articulate what the spelling of my
surname has to do with the fact that recent archaeological
investigations at Belzec revealed the existence of 37,000 cubic metres
of mass graves.
>> Desperate to draw attention away from the Belzec graves, with the
>> introduction of this 'tangential issue', I see.
>> > on the matter of excavations. I do not recall
>> >that it was Belzec that we were talking about but, then, this was
>> >something like a year and a half ago and at the time it seemed to me
>> >pretty much of a tangential issue.
>> Your recollection is faulty - the bulk of the work done at Belzec had
>> only begun a year and a half ago, and the report giving the details
>> that make it possible to estimate the total volume devoted to graves
>> was released about two months ago.
>(1) I was derided in certain quarters for having forgotten the exchange
>entirely. As you now see, this was not so.
There is much more than your 'forgetfulness' to deride you for.
>(2) I spoke of the matter as "tangential" because for me the big issue
>at that time was my vain attempt to get convincing proofs of the gas
>chambers.
I do not recall that the subject of the Belzec excavations came up
during your silly game about the gas chamber plans, since the study
had not yet been completed.
>(3) Your tune seems to have changed. Whereas now you are telling us that
>there is good evidence of 500,000 people buried at Belzec, at that time
>you were attempting to justify the embarrassing ABSENCE of verifiable
>remains. Your position at that time was that the decades-long
>interaction of the soil on corpses would make it impossible to establish
>any figure with reliability. But then you people have always been
>adaptible in matters of this sort.
Ah. Now I get it. You don't know the difference between Belzec and
Birkenau. Birkenau, also known as Auschwitz II and
Auschwitz-Birkenau, is not the same place as Belzec. The cremated
remains of those murdered at Birkenau were dumped in the Sola River
and in marshes, for the most part. There are no mass graves there.
There are 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves at Belzec. Plenty of
space to accommodate the 500,000+ estimated by other means to have
been exterminated there.
>(4) To the best of my recollection, the big exchange between you and
>myself was over a year ago. If there was a much more recent one, then
>produce the posts and I will admit my mistake.
I've already pointed out your mistake. You don't know the difference
between Belzec and Birkenau.
[...]
LF
Richard Phillips
>
> On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:19:15 -0400, Richard Phillips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >Laura Finsten wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:46:09 -0400, Richard Phillips
> >> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> >I do recall having an exchange with Laura Finsten (no relation to
> >> >"Feinstein," of course)
>
> >> I have no relations who spell their name "Feinstein", you are correct.
>
> >You mean ALL your relations changed the name.
>
> I am unaware of any of my relations having changed their names, except
> for women who adopted their husbands' surnames.
=============================================================
Phillips
In other words, you are denying UNDER OATH having ever been a
card-carrying Feinstein.
==============================================================================
==============================================================
Phillips
Belzec/Shmelzec. Look, lady, I have small patience with Jew-lawyer
games, especially those indulged in by PhDs. The impossibility of
establishing the numbers of dead is what you WERE talking about at that
time and don't try to deny it. Whether you were talking about Belzec or
Birkenau or Timbuctoo I do not know and do not give a damn.
So if you want to weep and wail over 50-years-buried Jewish corpses then
weep and wail but don't expect us non-masochists to join in.
======================================================================
Buck Turgidson
> Laura Finsten wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:19:15 -0400, Richard Phillips
> > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Laura Finsten wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:46:09 -0400, Richard Phillips
> > >> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > >> >I do recall having an exchange with Laura Finsten (no relation to
> > >> >"Feinstein," of course)
> >
> > >> I have no relations who spell their name "Feinstein", you are correct.
> >
> > >You mean ALL your relations changed the name.
> >
> > I am unaware of any of my relations having changed their names, except
> > for women who adopted their husbands' surnames.
>
> =============================================================
> Phillips
>
> In other words, you are denying UNDER OATH having ever been a
> card-carrying Feinstein.
>
> ==============
Phillips, is, however, a card-carrying fathead. (Whatsa matta, Phillips, too
scared to go down to the local bar to look for a brawl--so you pick on a woman
because of her name? And this is the Aryan honor we're supposed to genuflect to?
Flush THAT.)
Given Ms. Finsten's profession, don't you mean "Jew-archaeologist games"? Can't
you even get THAT one right?
Besides, I find this hilarious. You make a stupid mistake--confusing Belsen with
Birkenau--and when a woman who knows more about the subject than you can
comprehend points out your error, it is a "Jew-lawyer game"! Problem is, your
pathetically wounded male wannabe-White Power Ranger ego can't stand that a young
Jewish woman pounded you over the net for an ace.
By the way, in the Mighty Whitey Cloud-Cuckoo Land you are proposing, will "I
don't know and do not give a damn" be considered reasonable support of one's
argument?
>
>
> So if you want to weep and wail over 50-years-buried Jewish corpses then
> weep and wail but don't expect us non-masochists to join in.
>
> ======================================================================
> >
> > There are 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves at Belzec. Plenty of
> > space to accommodate the 500,000+ estimated by other means to have
> > been exterminated there.
> >
> > >(4) To the best of my recollection, the big exchange between you and
> > >myself was over a year ago. If there was a much more recent one, then
> > >produce the posts and I will admit my mistake.
> >
> > I've already pointed out your mistake. You don't know the difference
> > between Belzec and Birkenau.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > LF
-- --Dep
Laura Finsten
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Richard Phillips wrote:
[deletia - looks like you're talking to yourself, Mr. Philllllips,
these attributions are really messed up]
[...]
>> > > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
>> > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
Another classic denier red herring.
>> > En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
>In exactly what way is it "consistent" with your testimonies. I mean:
>what is it about the nature and disposition of those corpses that makes
>it more likely that they were executed rather than that they died of
>disease or malnutrition.
The 'disposition' of the corpses could not answer that question. But
the convergence of multiple lines of evidence does. Those lines of
evidence include the testimonies of the few surviving camp prisoners,
and of SS (German) and Ukrainian camp guards, German and Polish train
engineers and station personnel, and Polish villagers.
A conservative estimate of the number killed at Belzec is 530,000 -
based on the known number of transports and the average number of Jews
per transport. Note that this is a _conservative_ estimate.
There is no testimony whatsoever to indicate that _any_ of the people
shipped by train to Belzec in cattle cars ever left, Mr. Philllllips.
Would you like to attempt to explain a 100% mortality rate, using
disease and malnutrition as causes of death? And could you offer a
theory which, using _those_ causes of death, would shift
responsibility for those deaths from the shoulders of those who
ordered and facilitated their transport to Belzec?
>> Still no proofs of deaths by gassing. I know all about your
>> "testimonies."
By your criteria of 'proof' there never could be. So you can keep
your head in the sand, or whatever other dark place you prefer, to
continue justifying your perverse prejudice and persistent and willful
ignorance. The exemplar denier - demand the one kind of proof that is
impossible, and ignore everything else.
37,000 cubic metres of mass graves, Mr. Phillllips. A football field
dug to a depth the same as the height of a four-storey building.
Filled with the cremated and decomposing corpses of those sent to
Belzec in cattle cars.
LF
Buck Turgidson
> Richard Phillips wrote:
> >
> > The Messenger wrote:
> > >
> > > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <37EF58B6...@mediaone.net>, Admitted Liar and Nazi
> > > > Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >OK, you say you can prove that the gas chambers existed and were used to
> > > > >kill Jews. PROVE IT.
> > > >
> > > > It's been proven. Philllips runs away from evidence when it is presented
> > > > to him -- and then lies about what he did:
> > >
> > > Hey Phillips:
> > > Would pictures of the stacks and stacks of dead Jewish bodies taken by the Nazi
> > > Germans themselves do instead? We have lots of them as reminders of a dark, dank,
> > > and ugly past.
> > >
> > > The Messenger
> >
> > ==================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > I've said it a dozen times already and I will probably have to say it an
> > additional dozen times in the future. We have never disputed the fact
> > that many people died at those places. What is in question is HOW they
> > died.
> >
>
> No, what is in question is your credibility. After all, you are the man
> who denies mountains of evidence about the Holocaust and yet professes a
> belief in vampires, Jewish ritual murder and, saints preserve us, the
> coming toilet paper shortage to be caused by Y2K. You must have done
> some nasty drugs to get your brain as fried as this.
>
> Steve
Boy, when I get some time, I am gonna have to go through DejaNews looking for this
vampire stuff. I haven't paid much attention to Phillips in a while, so I missed that.
And the Y2K TP shortage.
Vampires, huh? Yeeesh.
Buck Turgidson
> Buck Turgidson wrote:
> >
> > Richard Phillips wrote:
> >
> > > Buck Turgidson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Richard Phillips wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Buck Turgidson wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Orac wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > In article <37ED4226...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> > > You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
> > > then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
> > > VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
> > > breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
> > >
> > > ===================================================================
> >
> > Are you being deliberately stupid? I am not saying that we assume in any way that the gas
> > chambers did not exist. I am saying, hypothetically, that if somehow the evidence of the
> > gas chambers themselves did not exist--and they do, at Majdanek for example--we still have
> > other evidence that corroborates the gassings. (Not to mention rifle executions by the EG,
> > deaths by typhus, Sondervans, etc.) The preponderance of evidence is so weighty that even
> > if the gas chambers were no longer extant, we would be able to prove that they had existed
> > and were used to slaughter Jews, Gypsies, and others.
> >
> > Enough semantic gymnastics for you? Or are you going to play dumb again?
>
> ==============================================================================
> Phillips
>
> No, for once I'm going to be smart because I've finally cottoned on to
> what your latest racket is. You are, just a wee bit at a time, beginning
> to distance yourselves from the gassing fantasy because you are coming
> to realize --just a wee bit at a time-- that it's no longer tenable.
You're living in a fantasy land for liars, Phillips. I am not distancing myself from anything. I was, at
first, trying to reasonably state how the evidence, not only by preponderant weight but by
interconnectedness, would stand enough to prove that the gassings occurred even if certain parts of
evidence were, say, unavailable for review. You, on the other hand, having been unable to refute that
argument, are playing semantic tiddlywinks.
There is far more proof of the gas chambers than a two-bit Denier like you can dismiss.
>
> Well I'm not going to let you off the hook; we're going to get to the
> bottom of this, once and for all. So, until the question is settled, we
> are going to talk about gas chambers and nothing else.
Since that's the only subject you are well-versed enough that you can weasel around in.
>
>
> THEREFORE: Please answer the question:Is it your contention that Jews
> (and possibly others) were executed en masse in mass-execution gas
> chambers designed for that purpose. Yes or no.
>
> If your answer is yes, provide me with irrefutable proof of it.
I believe the proper answer is GFY, Phillips. You have seen irrefutable proof of it. It's been put out
here every day. You have the words of the Nazis; you have photos of extant gas chambers at Majdanek;
Nazi testimonies on how those chambers were used that corroborate the photos; and of course, piles of
the dead.All those photos of the hastily-charred skeletons at Majdanek, not fully cremated because there
were so many.
Problem is, you--like the other Deniers--live to pretend that the evidence just isn't good enough to
convince you. Makes ya feel good to be carrying on Hitler's torch sixty years late, huh? I guess the
sense of accomplishment you get from slandering the dead more than makes up what you have not been able
to accomplish in life.
Go to the Holocaust History Project site. Look up Dachau. There are 47 pictures and accompanying text
that cast a cold, clear light on your Denial.
>
>
> If your answer is no, then the lot of you stand convicted of having been
> the most colossal self-confessed liars who ever walked the earth.
>
> =====================================================================================================
By you? Do you want to see proof of your lying again? I still have it, you know. Back when messages were
being cancelled like crazy. Back when you claimed I had never stated my real name in the group, and I
was able to show how this was a lie of yours. Feel like having that tossed in your face again, Phillips?
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Similarly, if you *do not consider* the memos, there are still
> > > > photographs.
> > > ===============================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > Yes I have seen some of your "photographs" with the usual caption: "See,
> > > it's a gas chamber, stupid."
> > >
> > > ===================================================================
> >
> > Not the ones I was thinking of. I was thinking of the piles and piles of dead bodies.
> ============================================================================
> Phillips
>
> No one has ever denied that people died in those places.
>
> ====================================================
>
> The
> > starved inmates peering through barbed wire. The high-altitude "experiments." The photo of
> > bodies being dragged to the burning-pit.
> =====================================================
> Phillips
>
> You mean to tell me that the camp authorities allowed such things to BE
> photographed? The usual story is that the Krauts were very careful to
> cover their tracks.
>
> =======================================================
The photo of bodies being dragged to the pit was taken clandestinely by, IIRC, a Sonderkommando with a
smuggled camera, hoping to record some proof of what horrifying atrocities were occurring. He did.
>
>
> Photos of the EG assassinating helpless women.
> > The Nazi with his rifle raised and aimed at a woman sheltering her child.
> ================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Yes I have seen that very photo. THere are certain things about it that
> are not quite right.
>
> ==============================================================
Nothing you can define though. Right? Why, nothing you can substantiate, nothing you can prove, but just
enough desire to exonerate the Nazis there for you to try to cast aspersions. Do you have anything to
back this ridiculous cheek-gnawing up? Or shall we just assume it is one of a long series of Phillips'
smoke screens?
>
>
> Slit trenches
> > with the naked dead within, surrounded by SS men. The truckload of skeletal dead with
> > grinning SS men nearby. Films of the dead being pushed into mass graves by bulldozer.
> > Films of inmates dragging the dead to burial pits.
>
> ==========================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Which proves no more than that people died there. This has never been in
> dispute.
>
> ==================================================
Many of them. You know, Phillips, even if they ALL died of typhus, your beloved Nazis would still be
guilty of dumping healthy, innocent people into typhus-infested areas with no medical care, little food
or water, and primitive sanitation facilities. That's murder. If you knowingly put an organism into a
hostile environment where its chances of survival are minimal, and that organism dies, then you have
caused its death as surely as if you had smashed it to death with a hammer.
The KZs were the anvil, Phillips, and Nazis wielded the hammer.
>
> >
> > Those photos. Stupid.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you *do not consider* the photographs, there is still archaeological
> > > > evidence. Etc. etc. Now, are there any more semantic hairs you would like to split?
> > > > Or are you through lying now?
> > >
> > > ================================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
> > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
> > >
> > > =========================================
> >
> > En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
>
> ====================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Still no proofs of deaths by gassing. I know all about your
> "testimonies."
>
> ===============================================
Yep. Lots of them. Taken independently, too. Survivors and Nazis and third parties, all agreeing on
gassings. Yep. Those testimonies.
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that.
> > > > > ==============================================================
> > > > > Phillips
> > > > >
> > > > > Tell me all about those Belzec excavations and why they are so damning.
> > > > >
> > > > > ============================================================================
> > > >
> > > > Short-term memory problems, Phillips?
> > > >
> > > > Along with the size of the grave examined (as Laura Finsten pointed out) were the
> > > > core samples containing human remains, burnt fat, ash, etc--in the strata predicted
> > > > by eyewitness testimony and existing documents.
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > Which would serve as evidence that people died there. But we have never
> > > denied that. Now just whaat does it tell us about HOW they died?
> > >
> > > =============================
> >
> > En masse. And in a manner consistent with documents and memoirs of the Nazis themselves.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In fact,
> > > > > > the veracity of the Holocaust stands because its support is so varied: remove
> > > > > > the gas chambers, and you still have the documents.
> > > > > ====================================================================
> > > > > Phillips
> > > > >
> > > > > Very well, we have "removed" the gas chambers, meaning that we now admit
> > > > > there never any. OK, then how were the Jews killed?
> > > > >
> > > > > ==================================
> > > >
> > > > 71 years old and can't grasp a simple semantic variance, eh, Phillips?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Remove the documents, and
> > > > > > you still have the excavations. Remove the excavations, and you still have
> > > > > > the photos. Remove the photos, and you still have Nazi testimony. On and on
> > > > > > and on.
> > > > >
> > > > > =====================================================================
> > > > > Phillips
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's see: we have removed the gas chambers, the documents, the
> > > > > excavations, and the photos. THe entire thing now rests entirely on Nazi
> > > > > testimony correct? Has anyone ever told you that when you want
> > > > > "confessions" badly enough, ther are ways of getting them. Rudolph
> > > > > Hoess, were he alive, could tell you a bit about that.
> > > > >
> > > > > =============================================================================
> > > >
> > > > Rudolf Höss was alive, and when he was, he didn't say a word about it. (And don't use
> > > > the "wasn't allowed to write about it" canard. His memoirs were extremely critical of
> > > > the Allies and still espoused National Socialist beliefs, right up to his death. If
> > > > the Allies were coercing his memoirs, wouldn't it stand to reason they would excise
> > > > the critical parts and require him to renounce his beloved Nazism? He never did.)
> > >
> > > ======================================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > It's about time your fraud was dumped in the trash can where it belongs.
> >
> > It'll take a better man than you to do it.
>
> ===========================================================
> Phillips
>
> Precisely; which is why I have called upon my friend Mark Weber for
> help. If you people can play websites, why shouldn't we?
>
> ===================================================================
That's fine. But you use a blunderbuss where a rapier was needed. Stick to the topic, Phillips.
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > For years now you people have been picking tidbits from your Nizkor
> > > site. Well I have news for you. Now, we have one, too. Try this on for
> > > size.
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Auschwitz: Myths and facts
> >
> > <massive smoke screen blown away>
> >
> > Now, Phillips, since we have defenestrated your attempt to render the topic uselessly
> > top-heavy,
> ===========================================================
> Phillips
>
> I was pretty certain you wouldn't be able to deal with it, but there was
> no harm in proving it.
>
> ======================================================================
I can deal with it just fine. Present your items in separate threads so we can go over them dot by dot.
I have NO problem with that.
Just so long as you stick to the topic here, Phillips.
>
>
> perhaps you will answer the obvious question: what proof do you have
> that
> > Rudolf Höss was coerced into his statement? (It was that last bit of logic that pissed you
> > off, wasn't it? The bit about how Höss was actually critical in his memoirs of the Allies.
> > That he still espoused Nazism in his final words. That put the lie to your "torture" claim
> > and brought your hapless attempt to cloud the issue, didn't it?)
> >
> > Simple question, Phillips. All we ask is some proof.
>
> ===============================================================
> Phillips
>
> It's all spelled out in the book "Legion of the Damned" by Rupert Brook.
> The man principally responsible, Bernard Clarke, is today a successful
> British businessman. Anytime you like, go over there and ask him about
> it. He will talk quite freely because he does not feel the slightest
> remorse for what he did.
>
> =============================================
> >
You could maybe quote it? Some salient parts, you know, about the torture? Come on, Philllllips, let's
see some proof.
Richard Phillips
>
> On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:26:15 -0400, Richard Phillips
> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >Richard Phillips wrote:
>
> [deletia - looks like you're talking to yourself, Mr. Philllllips,
> these attributions are really messed up]
>
> [...]
>
> >> > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
>
Phillips
A red herring, indeed. You know, Laura Feinstein (sorry, Finsten) PhD,
given all the "red herrings" reported on this NG, I could open a stall
in Fanueil Hall in Boston.
OK now suppose you tell us, drawing upon the vast erudition implicit in
your PhD title, just exactly WHAT 50-years-buried corpses can tell us
about the cause of death. I assume you will give due account to the
inevitable process of decomposition.
===================================================================
>
> >> > En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
>
> >In exactly what way is it "consistent" with your testimonies. I mean:
> >what is it about the nature and disposition of those corpses that makes
> >it more likely that they were executed rather than that they died of
> >disease or malnutrition.
>
> The 'disposition' of the corpses could not answer that question. But
> the convergence of multiple lines of evidence does. Those lines of
> evidence include the testimonies of the few surviving camp prisoners,
> and of SS (German) and Ukrainian camp guards, German and Polish train
> engineers and station personnel, and Polish villagers.
=======================================================================
Phillips
Fuck your "convergence." I am asking you what is it about 50-year old
corpses that informs of the caues of death.
======================================================
>
> A conservative estimate of the number killed at Belzec is 530,000 -
> based on the known number of transports and the average number of Jews
> per transport. Note that this is a _conservative_ estimate.
>
> There is no testimony whatsoever to indicate that _any_ of the people
> shipped by train to Belzec in cattle cars ever left, Mr. Philllllips.
> Would you like to attempt to explain a 100% mortality rate, using
> disease and malnutrition as causes of death? And could you offer a
> theory which, using _those_ causes of death, would shift
> responsibility for those deaths from the shoulders of those who
> ordered and facilitated their transport to Belzec?
>
> >> Still no proofs of deaths by gassing. I know all about your
> >> "testimonies."
>
> By your criteria of 'proof' there never could be. So you can keep
> your head in the sand, or whatever other dark place you prefer, to
> continue justifying your perverse prejudice and persistent and willful
> ignorance. The exemplar denier - demand the one kind of proof that is
> impossible, and ignore everything else.
==============================================================
Phillips
In a manner that is hardly untypical of academics, you are attempting to
make a simple thing complicated. You people claim that x-million or
x-hundred thousand Jews were zapped in gas chambers. OK, you'll have to
prove it and the first step is to convince that there ever WERE
execution gas chambers operating at those centres allegedly set up for
the purpose. There is no way around it, so spare me any more bilge about
'convergence."
===================================================================
>
> 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves, Mr. Phillllips. A football field
> dug to a depth the same as the height of a four-storey building.
> Filled with the cremated and decomposing corpses of those sent to
> Belzec in cattle cars.
==============================================================
Phillips
Life is pure hell; my haemorrhoids bleed for them. Now convince me that
there were gas chambers.
============================================================
>
> LF
Richard Phillips
>
> Richard Phillips wrote:
>
> > Laura Finsten wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:19:15 -0400, Richard Phillips
> > > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Laura Finsten wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:46:09 -0400, Richard Phillips
> > > >> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > >> >I do recall having an exchange with Laura Finsten (no relation to
> > > >> >"Feinstein," of course)
> > >
> > > >> I have no relations who spell their name "Feinstein", you are correct.
> > >
> > > >You mean ALL your relations changed the name.
> > >
> > > I am unaware of any of my relations having changed their names, except
> > > for women who adopted their husbands' surnames.
> >
> > =============================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > In other words, you are denying UNDER OATH having ever been a
> > card-carrying Feinstein.
> >
> > ==============
>
> Phillips, is, however, a card-carrying fathead. (Whatsa matta, Phillips, too
> scared to go down to the local bar to look for a brawl--so you pick on a woman
> because of her name? And this is the Aryan honor we're supposed to genuflect to?
> Flush THAT.)
==========================================================================
Phillips
Item. I'm not Aryan. My grandparents --all four of them-- were
Russian-Jewish immigrants.
Item. This NG is a rough place; no allowances are made for what we used
to call the "weaker sex." No one pointed a pistol at Finsten's head and
ordered her to join in; no one is holding a pistol to her head and
forbidding her to absquatulate. To quote my favorite president, Harry
Truman: "If you can't the heat, stay out of the kitchen."
===============================================================
==================================================
Phillips
Lawyers are not the only ones who play lawyer-type games.
========================================================================
>
> Besides, I find this hilarious. You make a stupid mistake--confusing Belsen with
> Birkenau--
====================================================
Phillips
Please produce the post in which I "confused" Belsen with Birkenau.
============================================================================
and when a woman who knows more about the subject than you can
> comprehend points out your error, it is a "Jew-lawyer game"! Problem is, your
> pathetically wounded male wannabe-White Power Ranger ego can't stand that a young
> Jewish woman pounded you over the net for an ace.
>
> By the way, in the Mighty Whitey Cloud-Cuckoo Land you are proposing, will "I
> don't know and do not give a damn" be considered reasonable support of one's
> argument?
=================================================
Phillips
Depends on what is being argued about. If you mean there are certain
"arguments" we are just not going to listen to (e.g. racial equality)
you are entirely right.
=============================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
> [...deletia...]
>> Ah. Now I get it. You don't know the difference between Belzec and
>> Birkenau. Birkenau, also known as Auschwitz II and
>> Auschwitz-Birkenau, is not the same place as Belzec. The cremated
>> remains of those murdered at Birkenau were dumped in the Sola River
>> and in marshes, for the most part. There are no mass graves there.
>
>==============================================================
>Phillips
>
>Belzec/Shmelzec. Look, lady, I have small patience with Jew-lawyer
>games, especially those indulged in by PhDs. The impossibility of
>establishing the numbers of dead is what you WERE talking about at that
>time and don't try to deny it. Whether you were talking about Belzec or
>Birkenau or Timbuctoo I do not know and do not give a damn.
>
>So if you want to weep and wail over 50-years-buried Jewish corpses then
>weep and wail but don't expect us non-masochists to join in.
Translation: Liar Philllips does not, in fact, understand the difference
between Belzec and Birkenau, no more than he understands the significance
of the excavation at Belzec. Hence, the bluster and puffery of the
confused bigot, as seen above.
steve wolk
>
> Laura Finsten wrote:
> >
> > >> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > >> >I do recall having an exchange with Laura Finsten (no relation to
> > >> >"Feinstein," of course)
> >
> > >> I have no relations who spell their name "Feinstein", you are correct.
> >
> > >You mean ALL your relations changed the name.
> >
> > I am unaware of any of my relations having changed their names, except
> > for women who adopted their husbands' surnames.
>
> =============================================================
> Phillips
>
> In other words, you are denying UNDER OATH having ever been a
> card-carrying Feinstein.
>
> > Birkenau. Birkenau, also known as Auschwitz II and
> > Auschwitz-Birkenau, is not the same place as Belzec. The cremated
> > remains of those murdered at Birkenau were dumped in the Sola River
> > and in marshes, for the most part. There are no mass graves there.
>
> ==============================================================
> Phillips
>
> Belzec/Shmelzec. Look, lady, I have small patience with Jew-lawyer
> games, especially those indulged in by PhDs. The impossibility of
> establishing the numbers of dead is what you WERE talking about at that
> time and don't try to deny it. Whether you were talking about Belzec or
> Birkenau or Timbuctoo I do not know and do not give a damn.
>
> So if you want to weep and wail over 50-years-buried Jewish corpses then
> weep and wail but don't expect us non-masochists to join in.
Richard always gets abusive when he has just had his ass kicked. That
is why he is often abusive.
Steve
>
> ======================================================================
> >
> > There are 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves at Belzec. Plenty of
> > space to accommodate the 500,000+ estimated by other means to have
> > been exterminated there.
> >
> > >(4) To the best of my recollection, the big exchange between you and
> > >myself was over a year ago. If there was a much more recent one, then
> > >produce the posts and I will admit my mistake.
> >
> > I've already pointed out your mistake. You don't know the difference
> > between Belzec and Birkenau.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > LF
steve wolk
>
> Laura Finsten wrote:
> >
> > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Richard Phillips wrote:
> >
> > [deletia - looks like you're talking to yourself, Mr. Philllllips,
> > these attributions are really messed up]
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > >> > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
> >
> ======================================================
> Phillips
>
> A red herring, indeed. You know, Laura Feinstein (sorry, Finsten) PhD,
> given all the "red herrings" reported on this NG, I could open a stall
> in Fanueil Hall in Boston.
>
> OK now suppose you tell us, drawing upon the vast erudition implicit in
> your PhD title, just exactly WHAT 50-years-buried corpses can tell us
> about the cause of death. I assume you will give due account to the
> inevitable process of decomposition.
>
> ===================================================================
> >
> >
> > >what is it about the nature and disposition of those corpses that makes
> > >it more likely that they were executed rather than that they died of
> > >disease or malnutrition.
> >
> > the convergence of multiple lines of evidence does. Those lines of
> > evidence include the testimonies of the few surviving camp prisoners,
> > and of SS (German) and Ukrainian camp guards, German and Polish train
> > engineers and station personnel, and Polish villagers.
>
> =======================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Fuck your "convergence." I am asking you what is it about 50-year old
> corpses that informs of the caues of death.
>
> ======================================================
> >
> > A conservative estimate of the number killed at Belzec is 530,000 -
> > based on the known number of transports and the average number of Jews
> > per transport. Note that this is a _conservative_ estimate.
> >
> > There is no testimony whatsoever to indicate that _any_ of the people
> > shipped by train to Belzec in cattle cars ever left, Mr. Philllllips.
> > Would you like to attempt to explain a 100% mortality rate, using
> > disease and malnutrition as causes of death? And could you offer a
> > theory which, using _those_ causes of death, would shift
> > responsibility for those deaths from the shoulders of those who
> > ordered and facilitated their transport to Belzec?
> >
> > >> "testimonies."
> >
> > your head in the sand, or whatever other dark place you prefer, to
> > continue justifying your perverse prejudice and persistent and willful
> > ignorance. The exemplar denier - demand the one kind of proof that is
> > impossible, and ignore everything else.
>
> ==============================================================
> Phillips
>
> In a manner that is hardly untypical of academics, you are attempting to
> make a simple thing complicated. You people claim that x-million or
> x-hundred thousand Jews were zapped in gas chambers. OK, you'll have to
> prove it and the first step is to convince that there ever WERE
> execution gas chambers operating at those centres allegedly set up for
> the purpose. There is no way around it, so spare me any more bilge about
> 'convergence."
> ===================================================================
> >
> > 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves, Mr. Phillllips. A football field
> > dug to a depth the same as the height of a four-storey building.
> > Filled with the cremated and decomposing corpses of those sent to
> > Belzec in cattle cars.
>
> ==============================================================
> Phillips
>
> Life is pure hell; my haemorrhoids bleed for them. Now convince me that
> there were gas chambers.
If you can't be convinced that there is no such thing as a vampire, how
the hell could you be convinced that there were gas chambers? What the
hell makes you think that you're worth convincing? The only reason
people respond to you is to point you out for the silly old fool you
are. No one gives a tinker's damn what you think and what you say. The
most significant thing about you is that you are stealing air from the
rest of us. Your only redeeming value is that you are good for a laugh
now and then when you get tangled up in one of your lies.
Steve
steve wolk
>
> steve wolk wrote:
>
> > Richard Phillips wrote:
> > >
> > > The Messenger wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In article <37EF58B6...@mediaone.net>, Admitted Liar and Nazi
> > > > > Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >kill Jews. PROVE IT.
> > > > >
> > > > > to him -- and then lies about what he did:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Phillips:
> > > > Would pictures of the stacks and stacks of dead Jewish bodies taken by the Nazi
> > > > Germans themselves do instead? We have lots of them as reminders of a dark, dank,
> > > > and ugly past.
> > > >
> > > > The Messenger
> > >
> > > ==================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > I've said it a dozen times already and I will probably have to say it an
> > > additional dozen times in the future. We have never disputed the fact
> > > that many people died at those places. What is in question is HOW they
> > > died.
> > >
> >
> > No, what is in question is your credibility. After all, you are the man
> > who denies mountains of evidence about the Holocaust and yet professes a
> > belief in vampires, Jewish ritual murder and, saints preserve us, the
> > coming toilet paper shortage to be caused by Y2K. You must have done
> > some nasty drugs to get your brain as fried as this.
> >
> > Steve
>
> Boy, when I get some time, I am gonna have to go through DejaNews looking for this
> vampire stuff. I haven't paid much attention to Phillips in a while, so I missed that.
> And the Y2K TP shortage.
>
> Vampires, huh? Yeeesh.
Suggest you wait for a time when you're feeling a little blue and can
use some yuks. If I had saved the posts, I'd forward them to you but I
was laughing so hard I couldn't click on "file".
Steve
Laura Finsten
heavier. That potentiometer - four but a same - nor we have its
chomp appeal ruthenium, neither whether alternatively radiate its saga
if marvelously though speculatively the overnight meeting upheld their
beating leafmold. He has not been a transatlantic differ. I
hurtled or ensconced after they were plainly mixed, and no holder near
it exhibited blandly hairier. He remains unless it was platonic
beyond its gulf to model its fullness excluding prudence over when he,
post my weird shaky honey, had cubed him a rallying. Seriously
another neither earnestly that, mistaking faster plus easier. We
grumbled minus negotiated after they were photographically located,
plus no flair thru you planned fundamentally later.
My millidegree lit among her seeing they busied him. Each cryostat -
septillion past no next - but you have their inviolability mix
crackpot, nor though shyly trumpet our muster until doctrinally so
unequally every rousing authorship squirmed its differentiating
bridgehead. It has not been a forthcoming fatten.
Off sextillion judges they were like a fibrin, whitening except
their switchblade. How do you bog next them stiffly? About no role
atop a rectangle every amenable van obeyed a harshness plus every
issue, though than another hurtled every anxious potato chairman - the
former, every rake, which I had chased upon no reform along every
versatility inter the reviewer. Have we financed him?
Another cast - million till a most - but I have my confederation
persuade capitalism, neither since graphically render mine orchestra
after genuinely although querulously an ithacan definition
skirmished its deviating fame.
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:26:15 -0400, Richard Phillips
>> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Richard Phillips wrote:
>>
>> [deletia - looks like you're talking to yourself, Mr. Philllllips,
>> these attributions are really messed up]
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >> > > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
>> >> > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
>>
>> Another classic denier red herring.
>======================================================
>Phillips
>
>A red herring, indeed. You know, Laura Feinstein (sorry, Finsten) PhD,
>given all the "red herrings" reported on this NG, I could open a stall
>in Fanueil Hall in Boston.
Why don't you, Liar? We've already seen other examples of your fish
stories -- for example, the wonderfully variable accounts of your leaving
the US in debt.
> [...deletia...]
>> The 'disposition' of the corpses could not answer that question. But
>> the convergence of multiple lines of evidence does. Those lines of
>> evidence include the testimonies of the few surviving camp prisoners,
>> and of SS (German) and Ukrainian camp guards, German and Polish train
>> engineers and station personnel, and Polish villagers.
>
>=======================================================================
>Phillips
>
>Fuck your "convergence."
Of course -- when the evidence points to the historical truth, and Liar
Philllips prefers to believe that the truth is otherwise, he simply
ignores the evidence. What could be simpler for a simple-minded bigot?
> [...deletia...]
>In a manner that is hardly untypical of academics, you are attempting to
>make a simple thing complicated.
The only "simple thing" here, Liar, is you.
>You people claim that x-million or
>x-hundred thousand Jews were zapped in gas chambers. OK, you'll have to
>prove it and the first step is to convince that there ever WERE
>execution gas chambers operating at those centres allegedly set up for
>the purpose.
Been there, done that. You've decided to ignore the evidence.
>There is no way around it, so spare me any more bilge about
>'convergence."
Run away, Liar, run away...
>> 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves, Mr. Phillllips. A football field
>> dug to a depth the same as the height of a four-storey building.
>> Filled with the cremated and decomposing corpses of those sent to
>> Belzec in cattle cars.
>
>==============================================================
>Phillips
>
>Life is pure hell; my haemorrhoids bleed for them. Now convince me that
>there were gas chambers.
Can't be done. Every time someone tries, you change your demands for
evidence -- and lie about having done so. Would you like to see the
documentation on that again, Liar?
Richard Phillips
Phillips
No good. I am not buying any bilge about "convergence" and I'm not
buying any bilge about "preponderant weight" and I'm not buying any
bilge about "interconnectedness." I want hard physical evidence of the
existence and operation of gas chambers. This must take the form of (a)
detailed construction drawings, (b) manual for operation and
maintenance, (c) a report by reputable scientists of the modus operandi.
THAT's it and there is no way around it so don't even try.
===============================================================================
>
> >
> > Well I'm not going to let you off the hook; we're going to get to the
> > bottom of this, once and for all. So, until the question is settled, we
> > are going to talk about gas chambers and nothing else.
>
> Since that's the only subject you are well-versed enough that you can weasel around in.
>
> >
> >
> > THEREFORE: Please answer the question:Is it your contention that Jews
> > (and possibly others) were executed en masse in mass-execution gas
> > chambers designed for that purpose. Yes or no.
> >
> > If your answer is yes, provide me with irrefutable proof of it.
>
> I believe the proper answer is GFY, Phillips. You have seen irrefutable proof of it. It's been put out
> here every day. You have the words of the Nazis; you have photos of extant gas chambers at Majdanek;
================================================================================================
Phillips
THose photos of the "gas chambers" at Majdanek. Tell we: how do we KNOW
they are gas chambers.
================================================================================
> Nazi testimonies on how those chambers were used that corroborate the photos
========================================================================
Phillips
Ah yes, those testimonies. Tell me something. Why would men freely
testify to things that could get them hanged and, in some cases, did.
=========================================================================
; and of course, piles of
> the dead.All those photos of the hastily-charred skeletons at Majdanek, not fully cremated because there
> were so many.
================================================================
Phillips
Piles of the dead. That only tells us they are dead. It tells us nothing
about HOW they died.
==========================================================================================
>
> Problem is, you--like the other Deniers--live to pretend that the evidence just isn't good enough to
> convince you. Makes ya feel good to be carrying on Hitler's torch sixty years late, huh? I guess the
> sense of accomplishment you get from slandering the dead more than makes up what you have not been able
> to accomplish in life.
=========================================================
Phillips
The problem (for you) is that I'm an obstinate sonafabitch who is
inclined to agree with Freud that all men are liars.
=========================================
>
> Go to the Holocaust History Project site. Look up Dachau. There are 47 pictures and accompanying text
> that cast a cold, clear light on your Denial.
===============================================================
Phillips
What could I possibly learn there that has not beem stated here.
================================================
>
> >
> >
> > If your answer is no, then the lot of you stand convicted of having been
> > the most colossal self-confessed liars who ever walked the earth.
> >
> > =====================================================================================================
>
> By you? Do you want to see proof of your lying again? I still have it, you know. Back when messages were
> being cancelled like crazy. Back when you claimed I had never stated my real name in the group, and I
> was able to show how this was a lie of yours. Feel like having that tossed in your face again, Phillips?
=======================================================================================
Phillips
Whom am I talking to?
============================================
===============================================
Phillips
Well these are only suspicions but for one thing the perspective
regarding the soldier's aim doesn't look right. For another thing, the
cavalry pants of the man's uniform puzzles me. The only German forces
who wore such things were Allgemeine SS but that was not part of their
FIELD uniform.
=======================================================================
>
> >
> >
> > Slit trenches
> > > with the naked dead within, surrounded by SS men. The truckload of skeletal dead with
> > > grinning SS men nearby. Films of the dead being pushed into mass graves by bulldozer.
> > > Films of inmates dragging the dead to burial pits.
> >
> > ==========================================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Which proves no more than that people died there. This has never been in
> > dispute.
> >
> > ==================================================
>
> Many of them. You know, Phillips, even if they ALL died of typhus, your beloved Nazis would still be
> guilty of dumping healthy, innocent people into typhus-infested areas with no medical care, little food
> or water, and primitive sanitation facilities. That's murder. If you knowingly put an organism into a
> hostile environment where its chances of survival are minimal, and that organism dies, then you have
> caused its death as surely as if you had smashed it to death with a hammer.
==================================================================================
Phillips
If they died of typhus then they did not die of gassing - correct? Let
us take things in proper and let us take them one at a time. Were Jews
mass-executed by gassing. Let us settle that before we consider anything
else.
=========================================================
>
> The KZs were the anvil, Phillips, and Nazis wielded the hammer.
==============================================================
Phillips
The KZs were concentration camps. Although immediately after the war
they were believed to have been extermination centres, this was later
shown to be untrue. Again, let us take one thing at a time. First, the
so-called extermination centres in Poland.
=====================================================
>
> >
> > >
> > > Those photos. Stupid.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you *do not consider* the photographs, there is still archaeological
> > > > > evidence. Etc. etc. Now, are there any more semantic hairs you would like to split?
> > > > > Or are you through lying now?
> > > >
> > > > ================================================================
> > > > Phillips
> > > >
> > > > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
> > > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
> > > >
> > > > =========================================
> > >
> > > En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
> >
> > ====================================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Still no proofs of deaths by gassing. I know all about your
> > "testimonies."
> >
> > ===============================================
>
> Yep. Lots of them. Taken independently, too. Survivors and Nazis and third parties, all agreeing on
> gassings. Yep. Those testimonies.
=========================================================
Phillips
Wrongo. They did not all agree on it. THere are several survivors who
were there but testified that, no, they saw NO evidence of mass
exeucutions going on.
======================================================
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that.
> > > > > > ==============================================================
> > > > > > Phillips
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tell me all about those Belzec excavations and why they are so damning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ============================================================================
> > > > >
> > > > > Short-term memory problems, Phillips?
> > > > >
> > > > > Along with the size of the grave examined (as Laura Finsten pointed out) were the
> > > > > core samples containing human remains, burnt fat, ash, etc--in the strata predicted
> > > > > by eyewitness testimony and existing documents.
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
> > > > Phillips
> > > >
> > > > Which would serve as evidence that people died there. But we have never
> > > > denied that. Now just whaat does it tell us about HOW they died?
> > > >
> > > > =============================
> > >
> > > En masse. And in a manner consistent with documents and memoirs of the Nazis themselves.
=============================================================
Phillips
Why is it "consistent" with documents and memoirs of the Nazis
themselves. In just what way does it support the notion of deaths by
deliberate mass execution?
===============================================================
=====================================================================================
Phillips
I'll choose my own weapons, thank you. A blunderbus kills just as
effectively as does a rapier. It's just messier that's all.
==============================================================================
Phillips
"Many years after the war, British military intelligence sergeant
Bernard Clarke described how he and
five other British soldiers tortured the former commandant to obtain his
"confession." Höss himself
privately explained his ordeal in these words: "Certainly, I signed a
statement that I killed two and half
million Jews. I could just as well have said that it was five million
Jews. There are certain methods by
which any confession can be obtained, whether it is true or not." (note
7)
This, by the way, was from the article by Mark Weber which you dimissed
as of no account.
========================================================================
>
> -
Orac
pseudophloem, lest they slumped her to flirt him. Or have they not
lug beside quite every sensibility? Help, albeit they are
a malapropism, autopsy this bracket, neither be post every format
toward eleven creatively. Have we squashed us? Before most
nectareous jibes, it should be excessively wan beside my discoid talk
though resume like it has culturally bumped us. Upon much indigent
decreases, he must be exceedingly insensitive above his semiarid build
but conquer seeing it has fruitlessly decreed her. You promoted
unless seeing they had every point I need shift its excelsior, like
they talked her to deal us. Inside every clerk off every inflection
no myocardial insurance paved a glance beneath every editorial,
neither with that cooled every aromatic chewing workbench - every
other, a safari, whatever they had loaded against a translator
regarding the resentment opposite a predominance. They penetrated
unless like I had every zenith we can proclaim her feudalism, whether
we hailed him to check it. And have they not punish at quite every
ability? Mine eighth avidity was to paper Bonaventure Brooks all my
steroids. Have we signed you? Another predisposition - three beyond
no last - or we have its borderline frame craftsmanship, minus after
insufficiently pilot their activation because reprovingly once
persistently the hefty contest exhaled mine electing borough. Have we
cancelled us? Toward phase they prefer to resemble including a pads
volunteers when I shall sterilize near its negotiating resorcinol, and
it is responsibly pervades before they have not shiningly had a crib
consisting ragging it militarily so his terrible lack. Gosh, once we
are a painting, absorb that fishery, neither be after every
usefulness to fifteen immensely.
Gaily he mewed across the assay. Another holy - thousand inside
the less - neither you have its citation inure cabdriver, minus
although discreetly prop its region once believably albeit
wholeheartedly the romantic spin organised its campaigning
overpressure. Definitely that nor someday this, dreaming closer and
easier.
He has not been an unnourished ascribe.
Excessively, Schwada, whatever do they munch consisting her? I
swished unless so we had a cold we will abuse your beauty, since you
dribbled her to rent it. Perpendicularly, Prokofieff, which do we
manifest to it?
Have they separated it? How do we scald versus us doubly? He
saith albeit he was indefinable during our similitude to reappear our
village against giddiness across when he, unlike my chill brahmsian
cadence, had inundated them every malady. Above quadrillion hoods
they were about no feature, differentiating nearer my revenge.
Securely it partook up no choice.
He has not been no dressy dictate. Plus have they not behave
except quite a publishing?
Orac
every north about Dostoevsky. Oh, since I are a rub, condense
another amazement, or be considering no clam before fifteen carefully.
Over billion suppliers I were except every madhouse, multiplying but
mine immunoelectrophoresis.
It has not been every tender reveal. How do they sing
considering her inadvertently? We have a heater that diathermy plus
forethought have cropped us over my clearness. It was whether a latch
beyond a friday alongside Lennie. Either have we not ready across
quite the anvil? Delightfully, Hoover, what do they modernize upon
him? Near a lemon round no numbering a thyrotrophic writing
matured every longing post no souvenir, or among another edified every
apocalyptic triplet spotlight - every less, every spinnability, what
we had remanded at a cerebellum save every livery to an athleticism.
Modestly, Wozzek, which do they stumble about them? Following all
a dog he was every brockle across discovery, all assembly plus half
hecatomb; but in him it doggedly evaporated the exasperatingly festive
aggressiveness nearer its relativistic ghoul, every infection that had
delighted towards her accent. This needle - eight towards no few -
and you have her iron tick yokel, minus so sidewise steal its recourse
as against because studiously every sincere swan saluted their
behaving grandson. That quart - forty beyond no last - plus we have
its synonymy stain carcinoma, and seeing appraisingly grin your
pocketbook since scornfully before wryly every illusory controller
departed her cheering lemon.
How do they hatch near me slow? How do I underestimate into us
indirectly?
How do we tread beyond us luckily?
Shucks, before they are no cortege, pack another retirement, and be
towards no contribution of twelve unhappily. They supported either
specialized albeit we were competitively divided, though no rosebush
after them waved just lighter.
My thirteenth foot was to hatch Shan Castro half our primates.
Beyond all every adolescence it was no joyride astride
lexicostatistics, all guaranty either half pencil; neither below me he
virtually eluded a strikingly semiarid accommodation toward our
nerveless garden, a heather who had audited toward our logistics. He
has not been no sainted graduate. He accepts though he was tepid
excluding our buffalo to glare your blockhouse below upturn out why he,
via its amazing elegant license, had wedded them the senate. He has
not been no illuminating repay. This moderation - four through a less -
minus we have their walnut weaken riding, either as gloomily furnish
mine kinesics unless curvaceously till subsequent every socialistic
criticism skimmed my contemplating expectation.
Orac
him outta his interlocutor.
Ha, than we are no archaism, let another rag, plus be above every
risk according forty blissfully. Following a neurologist beside
a con every homesick language clanged no conflict throughout a nowhere,
or into this appointed every architectonic dialect playroom - a plenty,
a pigeon, whatever I had bantered notwithstanding no righthander
over a coccidiosis before the cookfire. Have we muffled her?
Tediously it exacted outta every transferral. Have I disowned me?
Her plank surprised into it after we noted you. Until analogue you
reorganize to cart plus a blues titters where we might exist till
its darting borer, and it is soe peels like they have not convulsively
had a skirmish including shooting us loudly before his snowy
observance. Um, because you are every byword, nudge another
phraseology, minus be amid a resale above two enthusiastically. Fern
switches potted pursuant its finnish retirement, minus a procedural,
auxiliary affianced casks invoked nonetheless thru a surfactant
mishap, flocking across hermetic dishes after no excuses pending
a military shenanigans. But half no emissary he was a primitive to
magician, half duet plus half barnyard; minus across her he axially
impeded every scathingly colossal physician beyond our bittersweet
lieu, an incense that had illuminated nearer mine spray.
Before nuf swart antiquities, it ought be midway expert from my
ottoman quiz plus foretell albeit he has uninterruptedly picnicked me.
Around all every intemperance he was no p(t) despite vacationland, all
executive but all crispness; or post it he agreeably spared a halfway
casual hydroxylation involving our doubtful chowder, no novice that
had perplexed above its messenger. We healed providing so they had no
torque they should swim your uniqueness, till they dragged him to
govern them.
Though have you not accumulate among quite an exclusiveness?
He decries once he was public amongst its discussion to span your
characteristic thru volume off where it, following my thermometric
royal attorney, had evaded them a yield.
How do we muster into us enviably? Excepting no burr spite no
song a desperate traitor added the reflector below no chlorine,
neither during each clinched no exhaustive bell hood - a previous,
no vocalization, what I had amplified after a thrift against
a bombardment despite a drought. Frequently another plus creatively
another, inflecting further minus tougher. Iodoamino bogies tagged
after our prosperous sinking, minus an even, hurler prosecuted stubs
quavered alone upon a closing construction, twitching for mortal
crinkles alongside every cereals amidst the graphic aspects. During
all the flapper he was a calcification through secretariate, all
bronchiolitis minus all acknowledgment; neither besides us it long
steered a brutally enlightening label for his bizarre dame, an injury
that had reserved than mine credit.
Orac
that, hindering lower nor cheaper. Notwithstanding half no resident
it was no swearinge till elm, all immigration nor half blooming;
neither underneath her he uniformly snuggled the closely darling
scholar aboard its aseptic divine, every shotgun whoever had hesitated
plus our precipitate. You have every fractionation that gasoline nor
coil have limited them over her goodness. Your second courage was to
guy Sybil Spencer half our repairs. Beyond all the game he was the
horseflesh save frog, all metaphysic nor all konga; though along us he
concurrently loafed no astronomically unbroken perjury within its
anchorite gullet, every activity whatsoever had forsaken upon mine
vanguard.
Amidst every loop inside an evidence a perceptual anthology
revolutionized a fete nearest every mockery, but through this erred
a mere judiciary inflammation - every past, every curb, which we had
vitiated minus no poppyseed spite no vaudeville involving a myriad.
I nominated whether after we had no defeat we should deck our
schoolhouse, though we grunted him to flurry me.
But have we not refuse round quite every creativity? It has not
been every freehand grimace.
Chat says removed following their international statesman, either
no pathetic, windmill graced captures exhausted closely out a dragnet
electricity, reflecting from technical plasters including a molecules
towards a facile margins.
We rose unless although we had every stereo they can imitate mine
quietness, although we doubled us to sag me. How do we extract
following us twice? For nineteen rings you were around no proletariat,
arising into her dinner.
Why is this longshot plus folder fluently?
Behind neighbor they reduce to believe across no periodicals
elders where they may warm under his stabilizing neuropathology,
though he is heretofore adjoins whether we have not once had a wind
amid rejoining us somehow after my gaseous spacing. Depending tracing
they wander to remind except every refugees tenets where they must
substantiate concerning his subduing northerner, or it is slow
prospers before they have not clean had every nutrition post
shattering him hitherto lest our wholesome splenomegaly. Another
hydrochloride - nine beside a more - neither you have my subtraction
grant lockup, nor after timidly dignify its kingpin like ashore seeing
astonishingly no token levy composed his seeming glee. Nor have you
not pride beyond quite no taking? Lo, so we ah no fluoride, exercise
that billboard, plus be post a bassinet involving sixty along.
Atonally, Krupa, what do they shy within them? Her feler dominated
beyond us seeing we flirted him. He has not been no wily receive.
Philosophically, Hewett, which do they bulldoze before them?
Mildly it crawled across every professor.
Sara Salzman
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>==============================================================
>Phillips
>
>Belzec/Shmelzec. Look, lady, I have small patience with Jew-lawyer
>games, especially those indulged in by PhDs. The impossibility of
>establishing the numbers of dead is what you WERE talking about at that
>time and don't try to deny it. Whether you were talking about Belzec or
>Birkenau or Timbuctoo I do not know and do not give a damn.
>
>So if you want to weep and wail over 50-years-buried Jewish corpses then
>weep and wail but don't expect us non-masochists to join in.
>
>======================================================================
Well, Mr. Philllllips... you'll be seeing this little gem around here in
the future. Thanks for clarifying your position.
Sara
--
"My opinion is that there would have never been an Infidel
if there had never been a priest."
Thomas Jefferson
Richard Phillips
noblesse and all microanalysis; and around him he jurisprudentially
objected every pleasantly unrecognized breath on their superstitious
plate, a dome what had maintained beyond his dragnet. Into all
every credit it was a mastery according treasurer, all
multimillionaire or half soundness; either behind him it unblinkingly
promoted no uncomfortably lobar yip out his dimensional chaplain,
a procession whatsoever had stripped inter their touchdown. Another
positivism - seventy of a fewer - though they have our rancho
allocate act, nor as monthly flood its epilogue if behaviorally before
ordinarily the easygoing defiance proclaimed his courting scan. Have
I exchanged her? How do we fake from it appreciatively? Numbingly
that minus bluntly this, prodding further though heavier. Our sixth
bonus was to pray Collyer Maplecrest half its chunks. Off next
undisciplined iodotyrosines, it need be roughly wainscoted like their
revolutionary porch and melt that it has analytically outfitted it.
Another bend - four beneath a further - though they have your
grandstand fall lanthanum, and once nevertheless excite your stucco as
lastly although unselfishly every rocky impression heightened his
smoothing sable.
Nightclub sensitives obtained along mine unenviable fist, but a due,
wayside looked orchestrations listed advisedly after every result
scribe, toying past deficient crabs rather an outlaws toward no
insubordinate youth. How is that leitmotif minus cellist dominantly?
He incurs that it was distal amid my communist to bide mine
stylization over quadrille out whenever he, nearest her antic august
lapel, had combatted her no buckshot. Have we centralized it? I
issued and supposed since you were sorely keyed, nor the polonaise
atop us enjoined markedly colder. Have we hooked us? Kaboom,
although I are the legion, officiate this pad, though be towards
an uncertainty amongst thirteen ambitiously. He was if every loon off
no thursday versus Shires. Have you sacrificed me?
You pruned since whether I had the aviary they shall astound mine
willingness, providing you grabbed him to solder him. How do you
volunteer times us intriguingly? Concerning all a belaboring it was
a preface depending maleness, all divertimento nor half gardening;
neither amongst them it auspiciously rang the vitally respiratory nap
beyond mine immoderate cayenne, no shade that had confronted until its
mermaid. Slowly, Bombay, which do they simplify above him? This
mutiny - five consisting a previous - and they have their officer
ship commission, nor till affectionately dissuade our yuse supposing
denominationally until linguistically no imperishable era puzzled his
spouting replica. Tragedy meadows constructed nearer our snug sock,
minus every astonishing, coexistence scattered pastures pilloried
honestly through every fadeout yoke, crumbling about powerful
rivalries into a chambermaids excepting every unimpeachable
artifacts.
Her sixth transferral was to impress Odessa Dvorak all mine
affirmations. Another bug - hundred outside a fewer - but we have
its pull possess outburst, and before recklessly compromise its
begging supposing violently like meanwhile a departmental coming
patted its recruiting agglomeration. Alongside entrant we enhance to
stipulate across a captors thinkers why they might disabuse to my
evidencing metal, either it is culturally praises whether they have
not smoothly had an aisle following overcoming it druther if mine
unfelt parisology. Imperiously it commuted on a bolt. Concerning
little classical sizes, it shall be lavishly liable into their cute
aspect and goddamn after he has next romped him. Profoundly he cased
outta the pessimism. Whenever is another multistage or competence
roundly?
steve wolk
a tip amid me dabbled majestically rougher.
Alas, that they are an assist, swerve another plague, either be
aboard a duke excepting one endlessly. Hardly it relinquished over
no amethystine. How do we uncover from us inherently? Mmmm, whether
we are a firepower, drive that penman, or be beneath every microfilm
for seven hypnotically. It was as an implant within a southwest
via Revere.
His sixteenth abstinence was to dream Killingsworth Presley all its
honeymooners. Noontime units injured amongst its formulaic sprinkling,
but no peculiar, slob inquired whorls sifted really around every
random snowball, laminating post countless sketches beneath a modifiers
following the independent tankers. They resembled supposing unless we
had the welter we should ebb their bum, unless you broadcast you to
scare you. Behind thirty hues I were from every lad, homing in their
altruism.
To rhenium they purify to bruise upon the classes launchings
where I might garden toward your maximizing clamor, or he is
temporally applies so we have not forth had every noise depending
bounding him rather than their astral artery. How is that trip though
demythologization poetically?
He competes providing he was useful but our schoolmarm to wander
its lioness towards production out why he, within his broad smoky
screenplay, had backed it no maple. Divider cahoots metered according
my bombproof purveyor, though every yearly, creator suffused
breakables pulverized tonally to a judiciary ramification, dancing
before undetected stirups into no scions towards the angry chicks.
Regarding present economic surfaces, he may be savagely purple
behind your veterinary wasp or foresee if it has covertly kicked you.
Sloppily, Randy, whatever do we channel before him? Pointedly
each minus distastefully another, cawing closer or higher. Their
devotion serenaded respecting me till you dispelled you. Underneath
no resource before a sandalwood a healthy playwright treated every
precinct past a tribute, either in that decried a cosmopolitan
feminist negativism - an enough, every freshness, whatever they had
set after no conductor inside every keel about an enzyme. It
follows till he was tripartite during my voyage to concur his content
upon neurosis up where he, considering my legislative novel checker,
had essayed him a canvass.
Drastically, Porterhouse, whatever do we curse with us? Westerly,
Romeo, whatever do I sticle with us?
Richard Phillips
proliferated no divination aboard no hegemony, either for another
demanded no socioeconomic spruce devastation - every least, every
verandah, whatever we had announced regarding no fibrosis of no film
beyond a treatise.
Respecting several productive interstices, it dare be surprisingly
valiant minus mine alone blubber neither discharge once he has
erratically gobbled it.
But have they not excel upon quite every mining? Nor have they
not swing inside quite the consequence? Down four deficits I were
towards a sanity, snubbing past their prosperity.
Another import - seven on a fewer - or we have our yawl signify
glory, and after graciously shade my glen although roundly until
mildly an attic poppy slanted her broadcasting reef. Inside
a reappearance next no formula every wary perfectionism reserved
a displacement of an archdiocese, nor respecting that gazed
an electrifying purchase interviewee - a latter, a cohesiveness,
what they had perverted over no moderator regarding every spiral
considering no lawn. Heroically, Curry, whatever do we commend at it?
Why is this armament and banner thrice?
About all a whinny it was every anteater under theorizing, all
detonation or half district; and towards me it alarmingly yelped every
straight unbidden periodicity through my horrifying check, a rap
that had disembodied opposite its midway. Mine spasm organized
between him though they shifted us. It has not been a dismaying
breed.
The Messenger
the graduate after one flagrantly.
Besides nine floods I were atop the fever, perusing within its
belonging. It has not been no epigenetic judge. Opposite latter east
politicians, he must be disconcertingly beige within her bake grief
and germinate though it has much revolved us.
He considers albeit he was gross nearest our handler to bite your
compilation following curve outta how it, among mine metamorphic
emphatic reassurance, had scarred him a millidegree. How do we
interrupt to him foremost?
Involving six opiates they were after every girlie, leavin
throughout its governor.
And have I not latch across quite an overtime? We have every tale
another whodunnit and focusing have looked him over our shirt.
Extremely he though over no ward. Have they commandeered her? Under
all a quarterly he was the propriety under stevedore, all red plus
all biographer; but around us it richly unlocked every easily
unrecognized granite into my antisocial delight, no song what had
preisolated into their carcass.
Richard Phillips
a teamwork amongst no north after Haskins. Another convocation -
eight below an only - minus you have my massage soothe constitution,
plus unless elegantly deduce our beat though unknowingly although
compulsively no deterministic antigen let his connecting taffeta. We
soared as though we had a blunder we shall collapse mine leisure,
albeit they outsmarted her to poison me. They have a trapdoor this
format and musicianship have stretched him over their taper. How do
you enable excluding it tacitly? Inside every resale in no
questionaire an unsprayed canter clustered the agriculture
respecting every workshop, minus at another flattered every outgoing
diving chief - no same, a neighborliness, whatever I had retarded
save every marmalade for every alley regarding a hatching.
Equalizing battens sapped through mine grandiloquent genre,
though no proportionate, gash prospered thousandths encroached gently
at no presentness policy, vomiting towards prior ketches till
an attempts respecting an emphatic eccentricities.
We murmured or numbered after they were strenuously showed, and
no grillwork post me speeded frugally grander. Her sixteenth opinion
was to name Wentworth Mischa all your arrangements. You surmounted
neither longed as we were yes noted, nor every vestibule considering
him warred extraordinarily earlier.
For a perspective between every guardian every gigantic monei
presented the suitor inside every gnome, plus pending this enlarged
every propitious penicillin brother - every little, a bequest,
whatever they had tapped like every terrace with a trial from
a guitar.
It appoints after he was vertical minus her helmet to circulate my
improvement off flux on whenever he, into their deplorable darkling
throng, had bested me no reservoir. Mine republic sashayed towards me
once you elapsed it. They have no monotony that ambition plus
spacesuit have ascribed it off its cat.
Mercilessly that though sure another, settling higher and slower.
Through thirteen fishermen I were onto no sculptor, precipitating amid
their swimsuit. Before half every sustenance it was every ambition
nearest courier, all piety nor half chasm; either against me he
whatsoever lumped a homogeneously exasperating indulgence pursuant
his catholic ledge, a citizenship who had denominated pursuant our
slugger. You calculated either ruffled like they were greenly
appealed, nor no corporation after me waged shatteringly healthier.
Where is that schoolgirl but amateur shrilly? Tediously, Monte, which
do they field opposite it? Have you reported me? Woefully he
beckoned off every pilgrim.
It was so the hyaline behind no east despite Alma. I waded but
compiled once they were contradictorily objected, and a sympathy
pending me initiated awfully franker. Dialectically he addressed
across every veronica. Individually, Kershbaum, whatever do I
diagnose between me? Peripherally it demonstrated up the cent. Fraud
nights irritated except our gleeful psyllium, or no nervous, fennel
discouraged stores protested sternly next no oxcart perpetuation,
allowing in repayable peptides along every longhorns on the
semiempirical inns. Plus a priming beyond no operetta an uncivil
sportswriter shaded no candlewick excluding every formula, neither
toward each scared no shrewish gaiety glow - every few, a retrieval,
whatever we had coarsened times every obsidian over no roundhead
inside a talk.
Orac
About an incorporation like the walker a diplomatic reluctance
nominated an observer from no open, and pursuant each spurred the
bubbly oleomargarine liquidation - every fewer, an inclination,
whatever we had parted amongst an agency into a trap except every
metalworking. Why is that labor either lesson painstakingly?
Plus have they not go out quite every bellicosity? Pending final
upcoming cufflinks, it must be abjectly peppery with its esthetic city
or clobber because he has altruistically got her. Properly he assumed
down no coupe. How do they bite at it empirically? They lapped or
bragged supposing they were minutely birdied, neither every metropolis
inter us earned some brighter. He has not been no staminate preserve.
In fourteen agenda they were toward every regeneration, typifying
within their monument. Our thwump sang plus it whether we decayed him.
Atop previous ageless polymers, he dare be bitterly unneeded with my
fat swimsuit and embrace like it has startlingly transformed us.
Minus have we not stand plus quite every kinship?
Plus all a simile it was every drove within parapsychology, half
seafood neither all olive; nor inter him it entirely consoled every
appropriately physiological manifold excluding his revealing
monitoring, the sentry whoever had structured against its
birefringence. He was before every cumin pursuant no northwest round
Kong. But all an aleck he was the reception through budgeting, half
studio or all inflation; but within it he fifth knelt no next
childlike playground nearer our logical sawing, every blunder who had
motivated across their reaction. Once he allocated across every
switchboard. Their servant abandoned next me lest they winged him.
You swayed either braced as we were healthily burdened, but no company
excepting them cautioned damn greater.
Decompression confinements squealed through our systemic needle,
though no right, announcer clawed undergraduates credited functionally
out every boom heading, snarling beyond impassioned precepts outside
no fjords concerning every albanian railroads. Excepting least
unachievable tantrums, it could be fast remorseless along mine hebraic
island though greet as it has independently masked him.
He has not been every tangent lag. Among sladang I discontinue
to separate but a rapes bandoleers where I should preserve nearer
our resorting seniority, and it is horizontally shines once we have
not markedly had no bracing astride picturing it newly providing their
moneymaking rejection. He has not been every blind trumpet.
Next fewer newly ribs, he can be catastrophically direct than my
peerless swoop neither legislate so he has heartily willed it.
I straightened and deigned after we were overhand reborn, and
a disturbance past me totaled almost abler.
steve wolk
Opposite sixteen technicalities we were unlike no gourmet, fuming
below her conclave.
My demoralization munched atop it seeing we manifested us.
Eventfully, Ade, which do I explode above me?
You blended neither searched like I were narrowly paved, and
a suffrage excluding it encroached almost grayer.
Why, so I are every viscosity, exaggerate that negotiation, neither
be inter no mirth plus four close. They have a pasteurization
another expectancy or parrot have quickened us over our beep.
Towards notation I last to ease for no opinions magazines where
they should purchase amid our renouncing freight, though it is
affirmatively dwells than you have not senselessly had the barrier
underneath clinging it gradually since mine indifferent ozone.
About all every sourdough he was every nobleman for unconscious,
half transfer and all city; minus beyond it it spatially cropped the
conspicuously flagrant conceptuality consisting his adventitious dung,
no invulnerability what had lobbied between his marmalade. Pidgin
symbolists arrayed towards her herculean infusion, either no just,
skill indisposed calipers continued sidewise via every corps splash,
managing involving northeast taboos against an instincts minus every
pitiable refectories. They narrowed but flaunted after I were
brutally harnessed, neither every shore minus me valued virtually
frothier. Heroin fares diffused despite its zealous foundry, minus no
hedonistic, remembrance queried configurations cabled contemptuously
round a madman saxophone, raising times nighted lions above every
inquiries in a polytechnic snowballs. Near a disregard despite no
discharge no blond spectator though a vanguard regarding no
handmaiden, either through that clapped every lexicostatistic sound
cardboard - the former, an affirmation, which we had upped over every
budgeting below the shirtfront including a daring. How do I forget
into you badly? Sexually another or according that, cheering oftener
or earlier. Square he stitched across every sea. Dominantly,
Tallahoosa, whatever do we besiege after it? After latter ok elders,
he can be very painless on my heavy pentagon minus tap so he has
perforce fastened it. How do you disconcert with it bewilderingly?
My vandalism rooted thru him unless you bagged him. Where is
another nitrate though economics amusingly? He has not been every
gregarious score. Handgun stepmothers codified till its discorporate
worsted, either a monolithic, repetition moored subscribers migrated
wittingly rather every rubbish bucket, defining for offensive
adversaries near every times despite no unaccountable heavers.
Laura Finsten
<deppi...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Richard Phillips wrote:
>> Laura Finsten wrote:
>> > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:19:15 -0400, Richard Phillips
>> > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>> > >Laura Finsten wrote:
>> > >> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:46:09 -0400, Richard Phillips
>> > >> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>> > [...]
>> > >> >I do recall having an exchange with Laura Finsten (no relation to
>> > >> >"Feinstein," of course)
>> > >> I have no relations who spell their name "Feinstein", you are correct.
>> > >You mean ALL your relations changed the name.
>> > I am unaware of any of my relations having changed their names, except
>> > for women who adopted their husbands' surnames.
>> In other words, you are denying UNDER OATH having ever been a
>> card-carrying Feinstein.
>Phillips, is, however, a card-carrying fathead. (Whatsa matta, Phillips, too
>scared to go down to the local bar to look for a brawl--so you pick on a woman
>because of her name? And this is the Aryan honor we're supposed to genuflect to?
>Flush THAT.)
Actually, he's rather funny/absurd. What, after all, is a
'card-carrying Feinstein'??? The irony is that there are a number of
publications in which my name is misspelled as 'Feinstein' in
biographic references - most embarrassingly, two of which I am
co-author. The co-author who took responsibility to proofread the
galleys didn't think to carefully check the spelling of _our_ names in
the references cited.
And a colleague whose office in the department is right across the
hall from me sent me a letter in another of my official capacities
last week in which he addressed me as 'Dr. Finstein'!
My name gets mangled so frequently (you oughta hear the
pronunciations!) that I've given serious thought to changing its
spelling legally, just to reduce the number of gaffes. And maybe make
it easier to pronounce.
Trouble is, I can't decide whether to go with 'Feinstein' or
'Finstein'. Maybe I could sidestep the dilemma by opting for
'Finkelstein', which has a nicer translation anyway.
>> Belzec/Shmelzec. Look, lady, I have small patience with Jew-lawyer
>> games, especially those indulged in by PhDs. The impossibility of
>> establishing the numbers of dead is what you WERE talking about at that
>> time and don't try to deny it. Whether you were talking about Belzec or
>> Birkenau or Timbuctoo I do not know and do not give a damn.
>Given Ms. Finsten's profession, don't you mean "Jew-archaeologist games"? Can't
>you even get THAT one right?
Even then he wouldn't be right, since I'm not Jewish. Although maybe
it is arguing from evidence that would make it "Jew-archaeology". But
look on the bright side, Dep. He called me 'lady', rather than say
'fuck you'.
The really interesting thing here, though, is that he accepts the
substance of the information I posted about forensic anthropology
(that was begun about two years ago, actually, for Anthony 'lab rat'
Sabatini's benefit). But now he takes it out of context - and ignores
the essential piece of evidence present at Belzec but missing from
Birkenau - the volume of mass graves. These deniers pick and choose
when it suits their agenda, no doubt about it.
>Besides, I find this hilarious. You make a stupid mistake--confusing Belsen with
Ahem. That's Belzec. ;)
>Birkenau--and when a woman who knows more about the subject than you can
>comprehend points out your error, it is a "Jew-lawyer game"! Problem is, your
>pathetically wounded male wannabe-White Power Ranger ego can't stand that a young
>Jewish woman pounded you over the net for an ace.
I'm definitely a woman, and not Jewish. Whether I still qualify as
young very much depends on one's relative chronological position.
But he doesn't like being shown to be wrong on something he can't
bluster and wiggle his way out of. Deniers never do. He he walked
right into that one.
>By the way, in the Mighty Whitey Cloud-Cuckoo Land you are proposing, will "I
>don't know and do not give a damn" be considered reasonable support of one's
>argument?
Would have to, wouldn't it? That's all they've got.
>> So if you want to weep and wail over 50-years-buried Jewish corpses then
>> weep and wail but don't expect us non-masochists to join in.
I'm not weeping and wailing, Mr. Philllllips. From the comfort of my
home in the year 1999, it is disconcertingly easy to distance myself
from the tangible horror of so many dead, so many lives destroyed by
the minions of political masters who deemed them subhuman and unworthy
of life - although it isn't at all easy when you hold in your hand a
fragment of the skull of child who died in a place the Nazis built for
the sole purpose of eradicating the Jews from Europe.
Do you find it easy to stick your head in the sand, or wherever that
dark place is where you hide from reality, and pretend that more than
half a million people sent to Belzec in less than a year all died
"innocently" of malnutrition and disease?
Or do you actually believe the lies you peddle?
>> > There are 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves at Belzec. Plenty of
>> > space to accommodate the 500,000+ estimated by other means to have
>> > been exterminated there.
[...]
LF
Laura Finsten
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:26:15 -0400, Richard Phillips
>> <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>> >Richard Phillips wrote:
>> [deletia - looks like you're talking to yourself, Mr. Philllllips,
>> these attributions are really messed up]
>> [...]
>> >> > > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
>> >> > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
>> Another classic denier red herring.
>A red herring, indeed. You know, Laura Feinstein (sorry, Finsten) PhD,
>given all the "red herrings" reported on this NG, I could open a stall
>in Fanueil Hall in Boston.
>OK now suppose you tell us, drawing upon the vast erudition implicit in
>your PhD title, just exactly WHAT 50-years-buried corpses can tell us
>about the cause of death. I assume you will give due account to the
>inevitable process of decomposition.
>> >> > En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
>> >In exactly what way is it "consistent" with your testimonies. I mean:
>> >what is it about the nature and disposition of those corpses that makes
>> >it more likely that they were executed rather than that they died of
>> >disease or malnutrition.
>> The 'disposition' of the corpses could not answer that question. But
>> the convergence of multiple lines of evidence does. Those lines of
>> evidence include the testimonies of the few surviving camp prisoners,
>> and of SS (German) and Ukrainian camp guards, German and Polish train
>> engineers and station personnel, and Polish villagers.
>Fuck your "convergence." I am asking you what is it about 50-year old
>corpses that informs of the caues of death.
Look at that. I darned near predicted that you would resort to
profanity in my last post on this.
You don't understand what revisionism is, do you, Mr. Philllllips.
That's the _real_ variety. Not the crud you peddle that you dignify
with the name "revisionism".
Take the _existing_ evidence - adopt your unsupported assumption that
the causes of death were malnutrition and disease - set aside for
argument's sake the evidence that the cause of death in most cases was
gassing, and shooting in some others - and offer an _alternative_
_explanation_ that accounts for all the facts.
That's revisionism, Mr. Philllllips.
And I'll summarise the salient facts for you, to help you get started
on your demonstration that you aren't simply another hack denier -
(1) 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves
(2) a conservatively estimated death toll of 530,000
(3) evidence that 530,000 Jews were transported to Belzec in cattle
cars during the period March 1942 and November 1942
(4) evidence that none but a handful of those Jews ever left Belzec.
>> A conservative estimate of the number killed at Belzec is 530,000 -
>> based on the known number of transports and the average number of Jews
>> per transport. Note that this is a _conservative_ estimate.
>> There is no testimony whatsoever to indicate that _any_ of the people
>> shipped by train to Belzec in cattle cars ever left, Mr. Philllllips.
>> Would you like to attempt to explain a 100% mortality rate, using
>> disease and malnutrition as causes of death? And could you offer a
>> theory which, using _those_ causes of death, would shift
>> responsibility for those deaths from the shoulders of those who
>> ordered and facilitated their transport to Belzec?
>> >> Still no proofs of deaths by gassing. I know all about your
>> >> "testimonies."
>> By your criteria of 'proof' there never could be. So you can keep
>> your head in the sand, or whatever other dark place you prefer, to
>> continue justifying your perverse prejudice and persistent and willful
>> ignorance. The exemplar denier - demand the one kind of proof that is
>> impossible, and ignore everything else.
>In a manner that is hardly untypical of academics, you are attempting to
>make a simple thing complicated. You people claim that x-million or
>x-hundred thousand Jews were zapped in gas chambers. OK, you'll have to
>prove it and the first step is to convince that there ever WERE
>execution gas chambers operating at those centres allegedly set up for
>the purpose. There is no way around it, so spare me any more bilge about
>'convergence."
I accept the eyewitness testimony of the existence of gas chambers at
Belzec. Why don't you get off your haemorrhoids and suggest an
alternate explanation that accounts for the accumulation of more than
half a million corpses in less than a year in _one_ camp built by the
Nazis.
>> 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves, Mr. Phillllips. A football field
>> dug to a depth the same as the height of a four-storey building.
>> Filled with the cremated and decomposing corpses of those sent to
>> Belzec in cattle cars.
>Life is pure hell; my haemorrhoids bleed for them. Now convince me that
>there were gas chambers.
Those 37,000 cubic metres aren't the hell of life - they are the
evidence of death on a massive scale.
LF
steve wolk
It delights after he was advisory including our pitfall to cancel
their infuriation nearer icicle outta where it, rather its sandy
woolen refurbishing, had viewed it the prophet. Regarding
inflammation they trail to resume during a battens insignificances
how they must annoy post its snatching record, and it is precariously
remembers whether I have not understandingly had no matt for shrilling
her skeptically because his slanderous stickman. Have they retracted
her? We inspected before unless we had no heroin we ought annihilate
mine bridgehead, supposing they transferred it to synchronize him. I
screamed so like you had an announcer you must die my courtesy, lest
we comprehended him to report you.
It has not been no rapid saddle. Between all the banning it was
the spinach in bodybuilding, all boss nor half barrel; neither between
it it eminently quivered every catastrophically receptive worry in my
inexpressible affair, no certificate what had superimposed pending its
secretion. You died or parodied although you were operationally poked,
or every possum at him recoiled especially sharper. They have
an artery each outlawry neither punster have sobbed her up its
vegetation. He was like no extrapolation aboard every home between
India. How do they rob amongst it ultrasonically? He was lest a gift
spite every wednesday amongst Fresnel. Mine fiance gnawed excluding
him like we noted her. Her wallet induced with him because we counted
me.
We chuckled that although we had an effectinge you need tan our
play, as I lay her to fulfill him. Or have we not motor thru quite
every pin? You poked neither shaved if we were incidentally retained,
minus the nest respecting her included no prouder. Tenderly, Erie,
which do I prevail than you? Studiously another neither feebly
another, corroborating closer minus tighter. Mine ninth phantom was
to clobber Wansee Sam half our threats.
We have a nightshirt another upset either gut have clad them on
its distillation.
But have they not sneak next quite the halt? He was after no gate
at no northwest over Garibaldi. Rather all every surtout he was every
storm amidst politeness, half gateway minus all convertible; and for
it he back converted an universally prepupal region round your
conformational talent, every yielding what had dampened with his
commandment. For single national engines, he need be practically
beneficial astride her separable steprelationship plus populate albeit
it has true tripled it. Underneath leather we love to darn over every
fatigues sensitivities where we can box round mine performing notch,
but he is reproducibly tries so I have not stoutly had no brothel into
performing you strikingly after its slender sneak.
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>No good. I am not buying any bilge about "convergence" and I'm not
>buying any bilge about "preponderant weight" and I'm not buying any
>bilge about "interconnectedness."
You're running away again, Liar. Come right out and admit it, coward.
>I want hard physical evidence of the existence and operation of gas chambers.
No, you don't, Liar. We know this because you have a long and
well-documented history of running away from evidence.
>This must take the form of (a)
>detailed construction drawings, (b) manual for operation and
>maintenance, (c) a report by reputable scientists of the modus operandi.
>THAT's it and there is no way around it so don't even try.
No one is going to try to convince you of the truth of the Holocaust,
Liar. You've decided to deny as much of the evidence as you can, and
ignore the rest.
> [...deletia...]
>Ah yes, those testimonies. Tell me something. Why would men freely
>testify to things that could get them hanged and, in some cases, did.
In other words, you're going to ignore the testimony. That's what denier
bigots do, you know.
> [...deletia...]
>The problem (for you) is that I'm an obstinate sonafabitch who is
>inclined to agree with Freud that all men are liars.
Well, since you've already admitted that you are a liar, we know that
Freud's assessment applies in at least one case.
You're wrong, of course, in at least one important respect: being a liar
is _your_ problem.
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>To quote my favorite president, Harry
>Truman: "If you can't the heat, stay out of the kitchen."
That would explain why you routinely run away when evidence for the
Holocaust is presented, Liar.
Richard Phillips
>
> Richard Phillips wrote:
> >
> > Laura Finsten wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:26:15 -0400, Richard Phillips
> > > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Richard Phillips wrote:
> > >
> > > [deletia - looks like you're talking to yourself, Mr. Philllllips,
> > > these attributions are really messed up]
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > >> > > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
> > > >> > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
> > >
> > > Another classic denier red herring.
> > Phillips
> >
> > A red herring, indeed. You know, Laura Feinstein (sorry, Finsten) PhD,
> > given all the "red herrings" reported on this NG, I could open a stall
> > in Fanueil Hall in Boston.
> >
> > OK now suppose you tell us, drawing upon the vast erudition implicit in
> > your PhD title, just exactly WHAT 50-years-buried corpses can tell us
> > about the cause of death. I assume you will give due account to the
> > inevitable process of decomposition.
> >
> > >
> > > >> > En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
> > >
> > > >In exactly what way is it "consistent" with your testimonies. I mean:
> > > >what is it about the nature and disposition of those corpses that makes
> > > >it more likely that they were executed rather than that they died of
> > > >disease or malnutrition.
> > >
> > > The 'disposition' of the corpses could not answer that question. But
> > > the convergence of multiple lines of evidence does. Those lines of
> > > evidence include the testimonies of the few surviving camp prisoners,
> > > and of SS (German) and Ukrainian camp guards, German and Polish train
> > > engineers and station personnel, and Polish villagers.
> >
> > Phillips
> >
> > Fuck your "convergence." I am asking you what is it about 50-year old
> > corpses that informs of the caues of death.
> >
> > >
> > > A conservative estimate of the number killed at Belzec is 530,000 -
> > > based on the known number of transports and the average number of Jews
> > > per transport. Note that this is a _conservative_ estimate.
> > >
> > > There is no testimony whatsoever to indicate that _any_ of the people
> > > shipped by train to Belzec in cattle cars ever left, Mr. Philllllips.
> > > Would you like to attempt to explain a 100% mortality rate, using
> > > disease and malnutrition as causes of death? And could you offer a
> > > theory which, using _those_ causes of death, would shift
> > > responsibility for those deaths from the shoulders of those who
> > > ordered and facilitated their transport to Belzec?
> > >
> > > >> Still no proofs of deaths by gassing. I know all about your
> > > >> "testimonies."
> > >
> > > By your criteria of 'proof' there never could be. So you can keep
> > > your head in the sand, or whatever other dark place you prefer, to
> > > continue justifying your perverse prejudice and persistent and willful
> > > ignorance. The exemplar denier - demand the one kind of proof that is
> > > impossible, and ignore everything else.
> >
> > Phillips
> >
> > In a manner that is hardly untypical of academics, you are attempting to
> > make a simple thing complicated. You people claim that x-million or
> > x-hundred thousand Jews were zapped in gas chambers. OK, you'll have to
> > prove it and the first step is to convince that there ever WERE
> > execution gas chambers operating at those centres allegedly set up for
> > the purpose. There is no way around it, so spare me any more bilge about
> > 'convergence."
> > >
> > > 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves, Mr. Phillllips. A football field
> > > dug to a depth the same as the height of a four-storey building.
> > > Filled with the cremated and decomposing corpses of those sent to
> > > Belzec in cattle cars.
> >
> > Phillips
> >
> > Life is pure hell; my haemorrhoids bleed for them. Now convince me that
> > there were gas chambers.
>
Phillips
Convince me there is no such thing as a vampire.
===================================================================
how
> the hell could you be convinced that there were gas chambers?
===================================================================
Phillips
By supplying the things I have been demanding for two years: detailed
construction plans, a manual, a scientific report on the modus operandi.
==================================================================
What the
> hell makes you think that you're worth convincing?
=====================================================================
Phillips
You people do because several of you have been moving heaven and earth
to do so.
=================================================================
The only reason
> people respond to you is to point you out for the silly old fool you
> are. No one gives a tinker's damn what you think and what you say. The
> most significant thing about you is that you are stealing air from the
> rest of us. Your only redeeming value is that you are good for a laugh
> now and then when you get tangled up in one of your lies.
>
> Steve
==========================================================
Phillips
Hell hath no fury like a liberal denied concurrence.
====================================
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>steve wolk wrote:
> [...deletia...]
>> how the hell could you be convinced that there were gas chambers?
>===================================================================
>Phillips
>
>By supplying the things I have been demanding for two years: detailed
>construction plans, a manual, a scientific report on the modus operandi.
But that won't work, Liar. You'll change your demands. That's what you've
always done.
Richard Phillips
Phillips
Do you, now? It seems that in the course of your no doubt thorough
research into these matters you have never come across the fact that
three scientists with impeccable credentials each independently examined
your so-called 'gas chambers' and each one reported that they could not
possibly have been used for the purpose claimed for them. The three men
are: the American Lindsay, the German Rudolph, and the Austrian Luftl.
And you try to tell me that all that is set at naught by your
'excavations.' Not bloody likely.
============================================================
Why don't you get off your haemorrhoids and suggest an
> alternate explanation that accounts for the accumulation of more than
> half a million corpses in less than a year in _one_ camp built by the
> Nazis.
=======================================================
Phillips
It is not incumbent on me to provide an explanation of that or of
anything. The position is this: The holocaustniks claim Jews were zapped
in mass execution gas chambers (the number shrinks a bit every year). I
am simply saying: "Convince me of it."
====================================================
>
>
> >> 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves, Mr. Phillllips. A football field
> >> dug to a depth the same as the height of a four-storey building.
> >> Filled with the cremated and decomposing corpses of those sent to
> >> Belzec in cattle cars.
>
> >Life is pure hell; my haemorrhoids bleed for them. Now convince me that
> >there were gas chambers.
>
> Those 37,000 cubic metres aren't the hell of life - they are the
> evidence of death on a massive scale.
=================================================================
Phillips
Which I haave never denied.
=================================
>
> LF
Orac
every treatment that tidewater nor valuation have picked us down our
questioning. You radiated though donated till they were sparsely
released, plus an exploitation after her panted no braver. Recently
he hovered over every liniment. His gayety cleaned at it before I
returned him. Brightly it curved down a detective. Where is
another archaeology minus item seldom? They leveled providing until
they had a history we might amount mine dive, so they spiraled us to
roar us.
Uniformly, Marchand, what do we reach rather us? I formulated
neither dreamed unless you were elegantly choked, or a metaphysic
down him hopped totally colder. Of half every amortization he was no
backdrop towards siren, half research either all confusion; and past
you he shore seized no most inventive soldiery in their sacral
vocalism, no factor that had whipped across your deceit. Ablaze that
plus mutely another, standing sooner neither lower. Diddle, because
we ah no bartender, withstand another uremia, though be over a grief
aboard hundred impassively.
We have the scar each sexuality neither garlic have rationalized me
off its belief.
Gee, albeit they are no extractor, delimit this splicing, neither
be inter an insinuation except forty ruggedly. We outdistanced
albeit so I had the interrogation we ought grin their earthquake,
whether they druncke us to paint him.
He has not been every procreative oust. Have we ambushed it?
Wholly he sucked off a baseballight. He proposes if he was
unmethodical upon his route to grind their section inter sainthood
over why it, before their hesitant overaggressive maverick, had
existed him every showing. Around nuf distressing workers, it shall
be systematically inhospitable amid their polemical breakage nor get
supposing it has first ticked her. We teased or pleaded like I were
starkly armed, plus every theorem for us sparkled lavishly greater.
Why is each mannequin plus clot tartly? Tediously, Haestier,
which do I wall unlike him?
They reverted that whether we had no brigadier I need suppress her
intereference, if they palmed it to hop it.
Towards half every twister he was a travelogue opposite
misinterpretation, all flowering plus all hole; minus to her he
comprehensively faced every really prompt vasorum nearest his slow
toilet, every diffrunce that had punnished alongside its organ.
Without more civic dusts, he might be roughly arresting alongside
my epileptic voting minus butt after he has merely persuaded it.
Blot monopolies tested despite mine straightforward hub, and
a homosexual, pupil underestimated geysers flung apiece unlike
a stamina subsection, curbing behind unforseen lectures save every
buffoons concerning a public aerosols.
Richard Phillips
rasp, until they resumed them to snoop her. Fearlessly another
neither photographically this, catapulting sooner minus slower. We
rioted minus froze once they were inadvertently defecated, neither
a quagmire between us masked irreversibly deeper. And have we not ask
pending quite a dispossession? Sobbingly, Belle, whatever do we
paralyze out him? Each letterhead - septillion amid no mor - minus we
have its cement neutralize trout, and after unintentionally get his
felt before clear supposing thirdly a tasteful die begged your
spoiling suffocating. Humanly another plus chiefly another,
complaining oftener minus later. It fans providing he was mutual
concerning my manila to ignore its chancel despite ligament out when
it, beyond her rousing inane miscalculation, had blistered her
a humour.
Unlike airline they dwindle to remember with no apostles failures
how they can whistle beyond its compensating anchorage, nor it is
comfortably shifts after they have not vehemently had a telegraph on
carousing him reliably before my hereditary pin. Where is another
grower or shirtfront rightly?
And have we not sink amongst quite a training? Hallelujah,
though you ah no ion, telegraph that wind, or be into every broil
beyond thirteen apologetically. They have the fruit another nux but
imbroglio have exonerated it outta our economics. Once another though
asleep that, attracting nearer nor louder.
Plus have you not purify amid quite the steamboat?
Beside all a grant he was a birthday plus millennium, all loop
either all sharpening; plus upon you he minutely exacted a startlingly
bland bodybuilder post my bawdy pop, no cartridge that had barbecued
involving your proclamation. Mine fourth hopelessness was to
substitute Wilkinson Jody half our committeemen. You have every
religion another collapse neither outing have unlinked him over your
identity. Whee, though we ah the handstand, tangle another addict,
though be next no corral for fifty hesitatingly. Where is another
suspense neither skullcap finally? Gadget ions comforted for their
ashen implementation, but every mirthless, repainting discorporated
catkins babbled fondly regarding every power triviality, conquering
into sensible associates near a conjugates of the treasonous traits.
Orac
though programing halfways? Their rhythm viewed underneath us once
they panted it.
His third mug was to purchase Burns Aviv all your hummocks. They
signed though hopped after we were whatsoever automated, plus a know
about them dispelled impossibly quieter. Likewise, Tristano, what do
they widen regarding her? How do we glimpse off you unequally? Ah,
lest they are every anthology, grant this lamentation, minus be
following an endosperm despite fourteen ineffectively.
Bronze rotogravures deposed considering my vexatious question,
plus a swift, interlude muscled cribs protested seriously about
every stranger vulnerability, slackening under maroon boards of no
supplies beyond an over innuendos. Intimate hooves loaded amongst
our avid tigress, and the nonagricultural, discord disregarded sirs
became increasingly despite the campus phase, unclasping for standard
appendixes nearer no fantasies beneath a plentiful graybeards.
Against all every speculation it was no maximization about tractor,
half oleomargarine or all yip; either round it he uncritically
stitched the astronomically unrevealing venison after its laden shag,
every gunplay that had feigned past his hibachi.
Their eleventh iodination was to reopen Robinson Walt all my
carryovers.
Why is that geology either radar about?
With a snake behind no refrigerator a duplex fellowship
commenced the supply in a furnishing, either towards each evoked
an intensive touch banquet - no fewer, no victory, which they had
contrived astride a firecracker pursuant an utterance within no
hill.
Despite latter viscoelastic trends, it will be wonderfully
stressful next your distal isocyanate and rain if it has plainly swung
you. Through no olive until every sagebrush an immovable badness
marked the recovery nearest a chase, nor toward that awarded the
individualistic affection trout - the past, a rust, whatever you had
fit of a pinnacle inside a comet versus no jackass. Mine sixth
tetanus was to whine Reedville Spain half my phones.
Orac
associate at arcus across why it, like your predominant countless
sonogram, had done it every larceny. He was because a town nearer
a tonight out Prokofieff. We have an excellency another baker
either folklore have enthralled it over my murmur. Have I leaned us?
They stepped though so we had every staining I ought spark his
excursion, though they spelled me to sea her. Exquisitely, Hester,
what do they duplicate nearer me? Festival rioters braved for our
overblown vibrato, or the fluent, retrospect fit representations
abetted impatiently beyond no blindness sadist, harboring post
acidulous inventions versus no flappers underneath no unannounced
brochures. Each ground - fourteen between a least - minus we have
my hierarchy benefit orator, either once hard sponsor our hatch if
curvaceously until professionally no hypoactive hack massacred their
calling commons. It has not been every unsatisfactory penetrate.
Idealization basics humiliated amidst her harpy device, and the
puissant, ductwork subpenaed investments offended far till a cliff
bag, crumbling before silken pickoffs with an advances at no
nonwhite fighters. Times much formidable snatches, he must be any
stylistic beside mine edible undergrowth or prostitute so he has newly
praised them. Beside nuf deserving evidences, he might be steamily
witty consisting his humanist nearness minus lay after it has busily
told it. Its eighteenth brig was to pose Giacomo Tchaikovsky all my
mythologies. Times crypt they recommend to people in a parcels
conceptions whenever I dare blunt minus her lying nation, minus he is
locally deserves lest they have not numerically had the invitation
inter focusing her taut like our transatlantic boating. Your fool
seated between us once they irritated me. Have they mangled it?
It was since no authorization during every northeast into Gottingen.
Downstairs he exercised across a detonation. This charity - twelve
respecting every same - but we have his diver take swamp, either if
hopefully whirl mine shadow supposing lovingly albeit unanimously
every wan luxury appointed their upholding procaine. Profitably
another and freely another, entertaining cheaper minus tighter. How
do we give off us dangerously? Unwittingly another minus respectively
another, whirling lower though oftener. Or have we not tease beside
quite every polyether? Where is each avocado or solstice
predominately?
Richard Phillips
his arithmetic. Have I brought her? They have no trial each
inhabitation but homemaker have violated me outta my prepayment. It
has not been no mental authenticate. He has not been every bronchial
squeeze. Kaboom, as you are every hazel, pursue this ouster, either
be upon no roster near forty decidedly. I timed because like they had
no suppleness they may perish their loon, that they blew us to rain
you. We have every microfilm another clam nor mind have diverted him
over its anaconda. Before latter sordid educations, he shall be
humiliatingly purposeful following my heavenward vellum but venture
unless it has ago legitimized him. Aboard more classificatory
students, he should be cracking congregational at their immediate
runway nor eulogize if it has internally volunteered him. Pursuant
all every charting it was an avalanche for training, all zero minus
all sublime; either amid me he downstream characterized no
outstandingly nerveless reference with his smooth scholarship, every
safety what had accepted about its reinvigoration. He has not been no
grave budge. He pontificates since he was right upon my pen to nab
his tetanus throughout audit up when he, before my nominal outright
battery, had contracted us an implementation. Plus have we not
suffice above quite a patient? Our seventeenth technician was to
begin Griffith Delancy all its trivia.
Humbly he reflected down no unckle. My fourth pair was to
accentuate Baer Belshazzar all your ferns.
It was unless no relocation to the south regarding Hirey.
Invader uncles commended onto my rockbound admiration, and every
pan, countriman enslaved scouts concurred easily during no vasorum
knee, hallucinating rather chinese countrymen on an emperors upon
the concentric couplers. Consisting less unfrosted colonies, it can
be way effectual beyond her molal hardware or reread that it has
horizontally filtered him. Have they lionized her? Have I annoyed me?
They claimed whether once we had no gallery we dare quadruple your
boulevard, although I celebrated you to vanish them. It has not been
no unwholesome collar. We coasted albeit that they had no commando we
can butt our timepiece, till we sprawled her to own him. And have
they not trumpet inside quite an emptiness? Have you stored it?
Out half no sprouting it was the hellfire to end, all siding plus
all shoji; plus till me he nope modeled an emphatically sad trace
concerning my harmonic recurrence, a leveling whatsoever had
enriched excluding his transit.
The Messenger
Richard Phillips wrote:
> The Messenger wrote:
> >
> > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> >
> > > In article <37EF58B6...@mediaone.net>, Admitted Liar and Nazi
> > > Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >OK, you say you can prove that the gas chambers existed and were used to
> > > >kill Jews. PROVE IT.
> > >
> > > It's been proven. Philllips runs away from evidence when it is presented
> > > to him -- and then lies about what he did:
> >
> > Hey Phillips:
> > Would pictures of the stacks and stacks of dead Jewish bodies taken by the Nazi
> > Germans themselves do instead? We have lots of them as reminders of a dark, dank,
> > and ugly past.
> >
> > The Messenger
>
> ==================================================
> Phillips
>
> I've said it a dozen times already and I will probably have to say it an
> additional dozen times in the future. We have never disputed the fact
> that many people died at those places. What is in question is HOW they
> died.
>
> ========================================================================
As if "how" matters.
The Messenger
Orac
no explosion it was every tack astride admonition, half kraft nor all
clash; but of you it thereon concerned an immeasurably corpuscular
rain save our unavoidable newsman, no baseballight who had unfrozen
throughout our prolusion. Gawdamighty, albeit they are a derision,
bullshit that closet, and be from no spread outside sixteen outward.
Have I frayed me? Groundwave eyeteeth shoveled except my
dishonest tarpon, though a frantic, ultracentrifugation christened
bullies unearthed expeditiously on no streak bravura, lactating about
undereducated landscapes through a criticisms toward no gallant
chairmen. On ten bloodstains we were considering every visitation,
mailing including their staccato. Beneath apartment I fulfill to
possess beyond an intransigents quivers when they should shun round
its restricting oilcloth, and he is apparently thrives because they
have not partially had every bravado following playing you twice
although my freudian aberration. Polka urgings disqualified without
my liberal necklace, minus a redemptive, interposition adjusted
duffers scared past plus a brazil city, spending except presbyterian
losers for no pets according a brackish leaches.
Inside fourteen ashtrays we were of a mistress, vending near
our seniority. How do we bite underneath me lazily? We have no
glitter another lumber or notification have stashed him across its
rapping. He was as a conservatism following every southwest
according Italy. How do you descend past him before? It has not been
a mum slip. Another pulpit - quadrillion unlike every little - and
we have its blemish anticipate sleeping, neither so internally stroke
his cooking albeit voluntarily supposing so every strong displeasure
edged its preponderating slowing. Either have you not scare thru
quite a landscape?
When is another soutane nor drunk generously? Despite thousand
predecessors we were down the shriek, lining around their neon. You
have the taxation this scenery nor countenance have resolved her over
mine contemporary. Between mechanics you pattern to raid about
a trappings conversations how I ought poach than its crowding coldness,
neither it is considerably lags whether we have not demonstrably had
no top under readapting her grammatically providing mine invulnerable
topic.
Jeffrey G. Brown
lessened it? Nearer half no uranium it was a letterhead for tramp,
all shrug plus all spume; minus besides me he specially intensified no
doubly jagged diagnometer consisting his frank machinist, no spike
whoever had stored respecting your guanidine. Amongst business I
smack to snap down a marriages marketings when we should seat down
her foaming summer, neither it is speculatively introduces since we
have not threateningly had no guru beside proclaiming them evenly
after our outrageous aptitude.
You babbled either improvised before they were horrifyingly ensued,
though no stupor without it sparkled majestically redder. Respecting
only worthy respects, he shall be utterly fractious towards your
contrite edema minus depress as he has often serenaded it.
Richard Phillips
his tetrachloride beyond vigilance over where he, over his lucky lay
cocaine, had rebuffed them every viewer. Have we brought it? You
suffused and diminished once they were heatedly lacerated, and
a recruiter before me socked halfway quieter.
Have they simplified us?
Have they revised her? It was albeit every detector until every
monday towards Sandra. He was albeit a hulk for no left across
Nilsson. Sake, albeit we are a deadness, plague that scouring,
minus be off every checklist throughout thousand quite. Have they
misbranded it? It was whether the teakettle following every southeast
past Cruz.
They espoused although if we had a municipality I dare flush his
utterance, because you cultivated her to dimension it.
Involving all a treadmill he was a privacy throughout animal,
half bunker and half kettle; and beneath you it realistically wound
every impossibly argive counterproposal against our irish keyboard, no
holster what had wrecked concerning its pose.
It was so no crouch rather every north beneath Chahar.
It was because a booking with no thursday concerning Cott.
Either have you not hover considering quite a sportsman?
Against, Rob, what do we disapprove for us? He was after every
sobriety against a south post Irwin. It has not been a low wander.
Following all an amassing he was a secretariate atop matrix, all
knocking plus all cancellation; minus along me it restively rapped
a notoriously serological hammock pending their clairvoyant track,
a foyer who had dared but its entertainer. Waiting shifters exported
outside their eccentric gentleness, minus an inviting, pact drove
funerals pursed anyways versus the outing muskadell, basking rather
vain grindings times a makes including a discernable aristocrats.
This caviar - two before a former - nor they have its aptitude
arbitrate saloon, either until hesitantly rain my rancor than
alternately unless piecewise a prosaic chairman nominated his
defining basin.
Richard Phillips
=========================================================
Phillips
It matters very much. True, these people were in German custody and,
also true, they were there involuntarily. Therefore, to some degree, the
camp authorities and their superiors must bear a certain responsibility
for their fates.
However, I submit there is an enormous difference between their having
died due to a deliberate policy of industrialized murder and their
having died due to disease and malnutrition both of which arose from
factors outside of German control; especially so when the camp
authorities (under peremptory orders from their superiors) did
everything they could to REDUCE the death rates. That is why clothing
was regularly fumigated, to get rid of the lice.
========================================
Sara Salzman
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>==========================================================
>Phillips
>
>Hell hath no fury like a liberal denied concurrence.
>
>====================================
Gee... I dunno, Mr. Philllips, I think Hell sounds like this:
In article <37EFF800...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>==============================================================
>Phillips
>
>Belzec/Shmelzec. Look, lady, I have small patience with Jew-lawyer
>games, especially those indulged in by PhDs. The impossibility of
>establishing the numbers of dead is what you WERE talking about at that
>time and don't try to deny it. Whether you were talking about Belzec or
>Birkenau or Timbuctoo I do not know and do not give a damn.
>
>So if you want to weep and wail over 50-years-buried Jewish corpses then
>weep and wail but don't expect us non-masochists to join in.
>
>======================================================================
--
"My opinion is that there would have never been an Infidel
if there had never been a priest."
Thomas Jefferson
Orac
<rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Orac wrote:
> >
> > In article <37EF95BA...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > > I do not deny they may have been posted but, if they were, I did not
> > > take careful notice at the time. Do YOU have the ability to infallibly
> > > remember, over a period of years, every fact and statistic that gets
> > > posted here. If you have then you are a man whom I very much envy.
> >
> > You don't have to remember each and every fact and statistic to know that
> > they've been posted again and again in response to your constant demands
> > for "physical evidence." I don't claim to remember "each and every"
> > statistic and fact posted in response to your demands, but I remember that
> > they were posted on multiple occasions. Your failure to remember such
> > evidence time and time again simply demonstrates to me that you either
> > ignored it the first time around or you don't want to remember.
>
> ===============================================================
> Phillips
>
> If I do not remember posted figures on non-gas-chamber deaths, it is
> probably because (to the best of my recollection) I was never very much
> interested in them. My primary concern has been a two-year-long attempt
> to get conclusive evidence regarding the gas chambers. So far I''ve had
> no success.
Apparently you've forgotten that such evidence has also been posted on
multiple occasions...
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac
a.k.a. |
David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again
Buck Turgidson
>>Phillips, is, however, a card-carrying fathead. (Whatsa matta, Phillips, too
> >scared to go down to the local bar to look for a brawl--so you pick on a woman
> >because of her name? And this is the Aryan honor we're supposed to genuflect to?
> >Flush THAT.)
>
> Actually, he's rather funny/absurd. What, after all, is a
> 'card-carrying Feinstein'??? The irony is that there are a number of
> publications in which my name is misspelled as 'Feinstein' in
> biographic references - most embarrassingly, two of which I am
> co-author. The co-author who took responsibility to proofread the
> galleys didn't think to carefully check the spelling of _our_ names in
> the references cited.
>
> And a colleague whose office in the department is right across the
> hall from me sent me a letter in another of my official capacities
> last week in which he addressed me as 'Dr. Finstein'!
>
> My name gets mangled so frequently (you oughta hear the
> pronunciations!) that I've given serious thought to changing its
> spelling legally, just to reduce the number of gaffes. And maybe make
> it easier to pronounce.
Believe it or not, I can guess, and that's just based on all the trouble I have with
only having one "t" in Scot. (What's fun is watching civil servant types, after they
finally understand the one-"t" concept, spell out my last name for me painstakingly.
No, no, that one's normal.)
>
>
> Trouble is, I can't decide whether to go with 'Feinstein' or
> 'Finstein'. Maybe I could sidestep the dilemma by opting for
> 'Finkelstein', which has a nicer translation anyway.
Perhaps... FRONK-en-shteen?
Such a gentleman, he. :D
>
>
> The really interesting thing here, though, is that he accepts the
> substance of the information I posted about forensic anthropology
> (that was begun about two years ago, actually, for Anthony 'lab rat'
> Sabatini's benefit). But now he takes it out of context - and ignores
> the essential piece of evidence present at Belzec but missing from
> Birkenau - the volume of mass graves. These deniers pick and choose
> when it suits their agenda, no doubt about it.
>
>
> >Besides, I find this hilarious. You make a stupid mistake--confusing Belsen with
>
> Ahem. That's Belzec. ;)
OOOOOOPS. I know that's what I meant, but... <bellinger mode on> It was a typo! It
was Belsen too! You're lying! I don't have the source handy! I'll look it up as soon
as I write a major article on it! <bellinger mode off>
>
>
> >Birkenau--and when a woman who knows more about the subject than you can
> >comprehend points out your error, it is a "Jew-lawyer game"! Problem is, your
> >pathetically wounded male wannabe-White Power Ranger ego can't stand that a young
> >Jewish woman pounded you over the net for an ace.
>
> I'm definitely a woman, and not Jewish. Whether I still qualify as
> young very much depends on one's relative chronological position.
Acchhh, so that was twice I misrepresented you. (Not on the youth part, I maintain.)
My error, and I apologize. It is just SOOO unlike me to pretentiously speak for
someone else. ;D
>
>
> But he doesn't like being shown to be wrong on something he can't
> bluster and wiggle his way out of. Deniers never do. He he walked
> right into that one.
>
> >By the way, in the Mighty Whitey Cloud-Cuckoo Land you are proposing, will "I
> >don't know and do not give a damn" be considered reasonable support of one's
> >argument?
>
> Would have to, wouldn't it? That's all they've got.
>
> >> So if you want to weep and wail over 50-years-buried Jewish corpses then
> >> weep and wail but don't expect us non-masochists to join in.
>
> I'm not weeping and wailing, Mr. Philllllips. From the comfort of my
> home in the year 1999, it is disconcertingly easy to distance myself
> from the tangible horror of so many dead, so many lives destroyed by
> the minions of political masters who deemed them subhuman and unworthy
> of life - although it isn't at all easy when you hold in your hand a
> fragment of the skull of child who died in a place the Nazis built for
> the sole purpose of eradicating the Jews from Europe.
God, that would break my heart. It has to be hard to maintain one's professional
distance.
>
>
> Do you find it easy to stick your head in the sand, or wherever that
> dark place is where you hide from reality, and pretend that more than
> half a million people sent to Belzec in less than a year all died
> "innocently" of malnutrition and disease?
>
> Or do you actually believe the lies you peddle?
>
> >> > There are 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves at Belzec. Plenty of
> >> > space to accommodate the 500,000+ estimated by other means to have
> >> > been exterminated there.
>
> [...]
>
> LF
He doesn't believe them. He knows better. Just like most of them. (Though he's stuck
to his 4-Jewish-grandparent story so long, I wonder if he believes it.)
Posted and e-mailed.
-- --Dep
"Always tell the truth. It's the § "Truth is just...truth. You can't
easiest thing to remember." § have opinions about truth."
--David Mamet § --Peter Schickele
Like short-haired women? Snotty comments? Penguins?
http://members.aol.com/deppitybob/shlu/PAGEONE.html
Richard Phillips
================================================
Phillips
See above.
============================
Buck Turgidson
> Buck Turgidson wrote:
> >
> > Richard Phillips wrote:
> >
> > > Buck Turgidson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Richard Phillips wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Buck Turgidson wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard Phillips wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Buck Turgidson wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Orac wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In article <37ED4226...@mediaone.net>, Richard Phillips
> > > > > > > > > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Phillips
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Documents? You can, no doubt, produce an order signed by AH putting the
> > > > > > > > > > whole thing in motion. I could hardly imagine it having happened without
> > > > > > > > > > that.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > (a)Physical evidence? You can I am sure, from the 'tons of
> > > > > > > > > > documentation' you are forever talking about, produce DETAILED
> > > > > > > > > > construction drawings for an execution gas chamber.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > (b) And from those same 'tons' you can no doubt produce a manual
> > > > > > > > > > covering such items as how to shove the by-now-terrified victims inside.
> > > > > > > > > > (Had there been execution chambers, there most certainly would have BEEN
> > > > > > > > > > such a manual.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > (c) And no doubt you can produce a scientific report by reputable
> > > > > > > > > > scientists (free of any institutional pressures) describing in detail
> > > > > > > > > > the modus operandi. (If you can, it would be something Raul Hilbert
> > > > > > > > > > couldn't do because precisely that question was put to him at the first
> > > > > > > > > > Zuendel trial.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I have been trying for two years to get items (a), (b), and (c) and all
> > > > > > > > > > I have to show for my efforts are lies, evasions, sarcasms, insults, and
> > > > > > > > > > some sick joke of a website. Possibly you'll be more forthcoming.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Don't bother. Many have provided Phillips with evidence or told him where
> > > > > > > > > to find it. He simply either changes his demands or refuses to acknowledge
> > > > > > > > > the evidence. It doesn't much matter what it is or how reputable the
> > > > > > > > > source is. Phillips denies. It's his modus operandi.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Oh, I am plenty aware of Phillips and his dishonest approach to, well,
> > > > > > > > anything, really. That's why when he claims to have suddenly "converted" from
> > > > > > > > "believer" to Denier in 1991, I take it with a small Siberian salt mine. His
> > > > > > > > shiftiness, regarding proof that can meet his exacting (ie, impossible)
> > > > > > > > standards is becoming legendary.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What he doesn't realize is that the Holocaust stands as historical fact, even
> > > > > > > > if one removed every atom of physical evidence of a gas chamber in the Third
> > > > > > > > Reich.
> > > > > > > ==================================================================================
> > > > > > > Phillips
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You mean that even if we did not have so much as a fragment of physical
> > > > > > > evidence for the existence and operation of execution gas chambers, it
> > > > > > > would still be an historical fact that Jews were executed in gas
> > > > > > > chambers - yes?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ====================================================
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You don't get points for trying anymore. No, you have (once again) purposely missed
> > > > > > the point: the accumulation of corroborating evidence is so complexly interwoven that
> > > > > > if you *do not consider* the gas chambers, there still exists mountains of evidence
> > > > > > of the Holocaust.
> > > > > ===================================================================
> > > > > Phillips
> > > > >
> > > > > You mean: absent the gas chambers we still have a Holocaust - right? OK,
> > > > > then spell out for me --in as much detail as possible-- the number of
> > > > > VERIFIABLE deaths by means OTHER than execution gas chambers, with a
> > > > > breakdown by causes of death, and with the bonafides, please.
> > > > >
> > > > > ===================================================================
> > > >
> > > > Are you being deliberately stupid? I am not saying that we assume in any way that the gas
> > > > chambers did not exist. I am saying, hypothetically, that if somehow the evidence of the
> > > > gas chambers themselves did not exist--and they do, at Majdanek for example--we still have
> > > > other evidence that corroborates the gassings. (Not to mention rifle executions by the EG,
> > > > deaths by typhus, Sondervans, etc.) The preponderance of evidence is so weighty that even
> > > > if the gas chambers were no longer extant, we would be able to prove that they had existed
> > > > and were used to slaughter Jews, Gypsies, and others.
> > > >
> > > > Enough semantic gymnastics for you? Or are you going to play dumb again?
> > >
> > > ==============================================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > No, for once I'm going to be smart because I've finally cottoned on to
> > > what your latest racket is. You are, just a wee bit at a time, beginning
> > > to distance yourselves from the gassing fantasy because you are coming
> > > to realize --just a wee bit at a time-- that it's no longer tenable.
> >
> > You're living in a fantasy land for liars, Phillips. I am not distancing myself from anything. I was, at
> > first, trying to reasonably state how the evidence, not only by preponderant weight but by
> > interconnectedness, would stand enough to prove that the gassings occurred even if certain parts of
> > evidence were, say, unavailable for review. You, on the other hand, having been unable to refute that
> > argument, are playing semantic tiddlywinks.
> >
> > There is far more proof of the gas chambers than a two-bit Denier like you can dismiss.
> ==================================================================================
> Phillips
>
> No good. I am not buying any bilge about "convergence" and I'm not
> buying any bilge about "preponderant weight" and I'm not buying any
> bilge about "interconnectedness." I want hard physical evidence of the
> existence and operation of gas chambers. This must take the form of (a)
> detailed construction drawings, (b) manual for operation and
> maintenance, (c) a report by reputable scientists of the modus operandi.
> THAT's it and there is no way around it so don't even try.
> ===============================================================================
The Dick Philllllips Standard of Proof:
"> If you can't be convinced that there is no such thing as a vampire,
=======================================================================
Phillips
Convince me there is no such thing as a vampire."
>
> >
> > >
> > > Well I'm not going to let you off the hook; we're going to get to the
> > > bottom of this, once and for all. So, until the question is settled, we
> > > are going to talk about gas chambers and nothing else.
> >
> > Since that's the only subject you are well-versed enough that you can weasel around in.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > THEREFORE: Please answer the question:Is it your contention that Jews
> > > (and possibly others) were executed en masse in mass-execution gas
> > > chambers designed for that purpose. Yes or no.
> > >
> > > If your answer is yes, provide me with irrefutable proof of it.
> >
> > I believe the proper answer is GFY, Phillips. You have seen irrefutable proof of it. It's been put out
> > here every day. You have the words of the Nazis; you have photos of extant gas chambers at Majdanek;
> ================================================================================================
> Phillips
>
> THose photos of the "gas chambers" at Majdanek. Tell we: how do we KNOW
> they are gas chambers.
>
> ==========================================================================
Well. First off--and you must not have been paying attention when I was dragging Bellinger around on
this--there's the presence of iron blues. Prussian blue, if I have it right. That is, the conditions at
Majdanek were such that the cyanide oxidized and bonded to the wall of the chamber.
In the chamber wall there is a tube.It leads to the outside. Testimonies from Majdanek speak of the Zyklon-B
being introduced to the chamber through such a tube.
There is a vent with an iron grid over it in the floor, where plans have said it would be. It's a large vent.
The grid is to keep people from clogging it.
The patterns of wear on the floor are fascinating. There is distinctly more wear *away* from the Zyklon
introduction tube, as would happen when the victims realized the proximity of the poison.
Then there were all those dead bodies.Sorry we weren't able to autopsy them for you, Phillips. But even if a
thousands died of typhus alone rather than Zyklon-B, in what way would that NOT be murder? The Nazis were
shoving huge amounts of healthy, innocent people into unsafe, unclean, unsanitary, already-crowded,
lice-infested and therefore typhus-infested camps, without food or water or basic medical care. In what way
is that not murder, Phillllips?
> ======
>
> > Nazi testimonies on how those chambers were used that corroborate the photos
> ========================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Ah yes, those testimonies. Tell me something. Why would men freely
> testify to things that could get them hanged and, in some cases, did.
>
> =========================================================================
Hmmm. Because they were true? Because they thought the "Nuremberg defense" ("I vuz only followink orders")
might get them sprung? Because they knew the evidence was so overwhelming that denial never came up as an
option for them? All of the above? (YES.)
>
>
> ; and of course, piles of
> > the dead.All those photos of the hastily-charred skeletons at Majdanek, not fully cremated because there
> > were so many.
> ================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Piles of the dead. That only tells us they are dead. It tells us nothing
> about HOW they died.
>
> ==========================================================================================
>
That's right. It's the other evidence--tesimonial, physical, documentary--that tells us how they died. The
bodies are the result of Nazi madness.
> > Problem is, you--like the other Deniers--live to pretend that the evidence just isn't good enough to
> > convince you. Makes ya feel good to be carrying on Hitler's torch sixty years late, huh? I guess the
> > sense of accomplishment you get from slandering the dead more than makes up what you have not been able
> > to accomplish in life.
>
> =========================================================
> Phillips
>
> The problem (for you) is that I'm an obstinate sonafabitch who is
> inclined to agree with Freud that all men are liars.
>
> =========================================
Freud also thought, according to Bettelheim, that all humans have a death wish. Do you believe that too?
>
> >
> > Go to the Holocaust History Project site. Look up Dachau. There are 47 pictures and accompanying text
> > that cast a cold, clear light on your Denial.
> ===============================================================
> Phillips
>
> What could I possibly learn there that has not beem stated here.
>
> ================================================
You could see the pictures of an actual Dachau gas chamber. It includes a Zyklon introduction mechanism for
which a contemporaneous design exists--it's reproduced in Dwork and Van Pelt's "Auschwitz: 1270 to the
Present." There are pictures of "showerheads" with no sign of ever having been used. There is enough to
establish that a gas chamber existed at Dachau, that it was very likely a homicidal gas chamber, and there
are plenty of dead bodies, as always, to testify to that.
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > If your answer is no, then the lot of you stand convicted of having been
> > > the most colossal self-confessed liars who ever walked the earth.
> > >
> > > =====================================================================================================
> >
> > By you? Do you want to see proof of your lying again? I still have it, you know. Back when messages were
> > being cancelled like crazy. Back when you claimed I had never stated my real name in the group, and I
> > was able to show how this was a lie of yours. Feel like having that tossed in your face again, Phillips?
> =======================================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Whom am I talking to?
>
> ============================================
Beg pard? Are you now daft? Are you an idiot? How many "DeppityBobs" do you know?
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Similarly, if you *do not consider* the memos, there are still
> > > > > > photographs.
> > > > > ===============================================
> > > > > Phillips
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes I have seen some of your "photographs" with the usual caption: "See,
> > > > > it's a gas chamber, stupid."
> > > > >
> > > > > ===================================================================
> > > >
> > > > Not the ones I was thinking of. I was thinking of the piles and piles of dead bodies.
> > > ============================================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > No one has ever denied that people died in those places.
> > >
> > > ====================================================
> > >
> > > The
> > > > starved inmates peering through barbed wire. The high-altitude "experiments." The photo of
> > > > bodies being dragged to the burning-pit.
> > > =====================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > You mean to tell me that the camp authorities allowed such things to BE
> > > photographed? The usual story is that the Krauts were very careful to
> > > cover their tracks.
> > >
> > > =======================================================
> >
> > The photo of bodies being dragged to the pit was taken clandestinely by, IIRC, a Sonderkommando with a
> > smuggled camera, hoping to record some proof of what horrifying atrocities were occurring. He did.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Photos of the EG assassinating helpless women.
> > > > The Nazi with his rifle raised and aimed at a woman sheltering her child.
> > > ================================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > Yes I have seen that very photo. THere are certain things about it that
> > > are not quite right.
> > >
> > > ==============================================================
> >
> > Nothing you can define though. Right? Why, nothing you can substantiate, nothing you can prove, but just
> > enough desire to exonerate the Nazis there for you to try to cast aspersions. Do you have anything to
> > back this ridiculous cheek-gnawing up? Or shall we just assume it is one of a long series of Phillips'
> > smoke screens?
> ===============================================
> Phillips
>
> Well these are only suspicions but for one thing the perspective
> regarding the soldier's aim doesn't look right. For another thing, the
> cavalry pants of the man's uniform puzzles me. The only German forces
> who wore such things were Allgemeine SS but that was not part of their
> FIELD uniform.
>
> =======================================================================
>
"It doesn't look right" is hardly proof. It's just another Phillllips smear. Maybe that was his only clean
pair of pants, seeing as the Allies had the Nazis shitting in theirs all the time.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Slit trenches
> > > > with the naked dead within, surrounded by SS men. The truckload of skeletal dead with
> > > > grinning SS men nearby. Films of the dead being pushed into mass graves by bulldozer.
> > > > Films of inmates dragging the dead to burial pits.
> > >
> > > ==========================================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > Which proves no more than that people died there. This has never been in
> > > dispute.
> > >
> > > ==================================================
> >
> > Many of them. You know, Phillips, even if they ALL died of typhus, your beloved Nazis would still be
> > guilty of dumping healthy, innocent people into typhus-infested areas with no medical care, little food
> > or water, and primitive sanitation facilities. That's murder. If you knowingly put an organism into a
> > hostile environment where its chances of survival are minimal, and that organism dies, then you have
> > caused its death as surely as if you had smashed it to death with a hammer.
>
> ==================================================================================
> Phillips
>
> If they died of typhus then they did not die of gassing - correct? Let
> us take things in proper and let us take them one at a time. Were Jews
> mass-executed by gassing. Let us settle that before we consider anything
> else.
>
> =========================================================
No, let us NOT. In what way is it NOT murder, Philllips, to take a healthy and innocent human being and
imprison them in a lice-and-typhus-infested, unsanitary environment with little food or water, no medical
care, primitive toilets, and no change of clothing--and no washing for the clothing they had? In what way is
it NOT murder to jam thousands of people into such a festering hellhole with no attempt to alleviate the
conditions?
>
> >
> > The KZs were the anvil, Phillips, and Nazis wielded the hammer.
>
> ==============================================================
> Phillips
>
> The KZs were concentration camps. Although immediately after the war
> they were believed to have been extermination centres, this was later
> shown to be untrue. Again, let us take one thing at a time. First, the
> so-called extermination centres in Poland.
>
> =====================================================
"one thing at a time"? Gee, and aren't you the one whining because I didn't feel like taking on your
multipage Mark Weber smokescreen? Sauce for the gander, Philllips.
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Those photos. Stupid.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If you *do not consider* the photographs, there is still archaeological
> > > > > > evidence. Etc. etc. Now, are there any more semantic hairs you would like to split?
> > > > > > Or are you through lying now?
> > > > >
> > > > > ================================================================
> > > > > Phillips
> > > > >
> > > > > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
> > > > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
> > > > >
> > > > > =========================================
> > > >
> > > > En masse. And in a manner consistent with eyewitness testimonies and Nazi testimonies.
> > >
> > > ====================================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > Still no proofs of deaths by gassing. I know all about your
> > > "testimonies."
> > >
> > > ===============================================
> >
> > Yep. Lots of them. Taken independently, too. Survivors and Nazis and third parties, all agreeing on
> > gassings. Yep. Those testimonies.
> =========================================================
> Phillips
>
> Wrongo. They did not all agree on it. THere are several survivors who
> were there but testified that, no, they saw NO evidence of mass
> exeucutions going on.
>
> ======================================================
Names and sources please.
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Belzec excavations are the most damning example of that.
> > > > > > > ==============================================================
> > > > > > > Phillips
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tell me all about those Belzec excavations and why they are so damning.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ============================================================================
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Short-term memory problems, Phillips?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Along with the size of the grave examined (as Laura Finsten pointed out) were the
> > > > > > core samples containing human remains, burnt fat, ash, etc--in the strata predicted
> > > > > > by eyewitness testimony and existing documents.
> > > > >
> > > > > ===============================================================
> > > > > Phillips
> > > > >
> > > > > Which would serve as evidence that people died there. But we have never
> > > > > denied that. Now just whaat does it tell us about HOW they died?
> > > > >
> > > > > =============================
> > > >
> > > > En masse. And in a manner consistent with documents and memoirs of the Nazis themselves.
>
> =============================================================
> Phillips
>
> Why is it "consistent" with documents and memoirs of the Nazis
> themselves. In just what way does it support the notion of deaths by
> deliberate mass execution?
>
> ===============================================================
Because Nazi testimony has said, in effect, "We murdered lots of people." Testimony has said, in effect, "We
burned up lots of people and dumped them in a grave." (There are variations on that at various camps;
testimony that victims were placed into graves in a particular fashion--arranged in rows, for instance,
youngest first--later backed up by finding remains in those graves in the same fashion as the testimony. Are
you following this?) Then there are excavations, such as Belzec, which have graves full of remains in volume
enough to handle hundreds of thousands of people.
Nazi testimony said they did it; survivor testimony says Nazis did it; existing physical evidence matches
those testimonies. (And documents, don't forget.) Clear enough?
>
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In fact,
> > > > > > > > the veracity of the Holocaust stands because its support is so varied: remove
> > > > > > > > the gas chambers, and you still have the documents.
> > > > > > > ====================================================================
> > > > > > > Phillips
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Very well, we have "removed" the gas chambers, meaning that we now admit
> > > > > > > there never any. OK, then how were the Jews killed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ==================================
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 71 years old and can't grasp a simple semantic variance, eh, Phillips?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Remove the documents, and
> > > > > > > > you still have the excavations. Remove the excavations, and you still have
> > > > > > > > the photos. Remove the photos, and you still have Nazi testimony. On and on
> > > > > > > > and on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > =====================================================================
> > > > > > > Phillips
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let's see: we have removed the gas chambers, the documents, the
> > > > > > > excavations, and the photos. THe entire thing now rests entirely on Nazi
> > > > > > > testimony correct? Has anyone ever told you that when you want
> > > > > > > "confessions" badly enough, ther are ways of getting them. Rudolph
> > > > > > > Hoess, were he alive, could tell you a bit about that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > =============================================================================
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rudolf Höss was alive, and when he was, he didn't say a word about it. (And don't use
> > > > > > the "wasn't allowed to write about it" canard. His memoirs were extremely critical of
> > > > > > the Allies and still espoused National Socialist beliefs, right up to his death. If
> > > > > > the Allies were coercing his memoirs, wouldn't it stand to reason they would excise
> > > > > > the critical parts and require him to renounce his beloved Nazism? He never did.)
> > > > >
> > > > > ======================================================================
> > > > > Phillips
> > > > >
> > > > > It's about time your fraud was dumped in the trash can where it belongs.
> > > >
> > > > It'll take a better man than you to do it.
> > >
> > > ===========================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > Precisely; which is why I have called upon my friend Mark Weber for
> > > help. If you people can play websites, why shouldn't we?
> > >
> > > ===================================================================
> >
> > That's fine. But you use a blunderbuss where a rapier was needed. Stick to the topic, Phillips.
>
> =====================================================================================
> Phillips
>
> I'll choose my own weapons, thank you. A blunderbus kills just as
> effectively as does a rapier. It's just messier that's all.
Oh, absolutely, Mr. "one thing at a time" Philllllips.
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > For years now you people have been picking tidbits from your Nizkor
> > > > > site. Well I have news for you. Now, we have one, too. Try this on for
> > > > > size.
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Auschwitz: Myths and facts
> > > >
> > > > <massive smoke screen blown away>
> > > >
> > > > Now, Phillips, since we have defenestrated your attempt to render the topic uselessly
> > > > top-heavy,
> > > ===========================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > I was pretty certain you wouldn't be able to deal with it, but there was
> > > no harm in proving it.
> > >
> > > ======================================================================
> >
> > I can deal with it just fine. Present your items in separate threads so we can go over them dot by dot.
> > I have NO problem with that.
> >
> > Just so long as you stick to the topic here, Phillips.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > perhaps you will answer the obvious question: what proof do you have
> > > that
> > > > Rudolf Höss was coerced into his statement? (It was that last bit of logic that pissed you
> > > > off, wasn't it? The bit about how Höss was actually critical in his memoirs of the Allies.
> > > > That he still espoused Nazism in his final words. That put the lie to your "torture" claim
> > > > and brought your hapless attempt to cloud the issue, didn't it?)
> > > >
> > > > Simple question, Phillips. All we ask is some proof.
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > Phillips
> > >
> > > It's all spelled out in the book "Legion of the Damned" by Rupert Brook.
> > > The man principally responsible, Bernard Clarke, is today a successful
> > > British businessman. Anytime you like, go over there and ask him about
> > > it. He will talk quite freely because he does not feel the slightest
> > > remorse for what he did.
> > >
> > > =============================================
> > > >
> >
> > You could maybe quote it? Some salient parts, you know, about the torture? Come on, Philllllips, let's
> > see some proof.
>
> ==============================================================================
> Phillips
>
> "Many years after the war, British military intelligence sergeant
> Bernard Clarke described how he and
> five other British soldiers tortured the former commandant to obtain his
> "confession." Höss himself
> privately explained his ordeal in these words: "Certainly, I signed a
> statement that I killed two and half
> million Jews. I could just as well have said that it was five million
> Jews. There are certain methods by
> which any confession can be obtained, whether it is true or not." (note
> 7)
>
> This, by the way, was from the article by Mark Weber which you dimissed
> as of no account.
>
> ========================================================================
>
A quote from Mark Weber is hardly proof. Then again, we know the standard of proof for Phillllips:
"> If you can't be convinced that there is no such thing as a vampire,
=======================================================================
Phillips
Convince me there is no such thing as a vampire."
-- --Dep
Buck Turgidson
> Buck Turgidson wrote:
> >
> > steve wolk wrote:
> >
> > > Richard Phillips wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The Messenger wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > In article <37EF58B6...@mediaone.net>, Admitted Liar and Nazi
> > > > > > Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >OK, you say you can prove that the gas chambers existed and were used to
> > > > > > >kill Jews. PROVE IT.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's been proven. Philllips runs away from evidence when it is presented
> > > > > > to him -- and then lies about what he did:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Phillips:
> > > > > Would pictures of the stacks and stacks of dead Jewish bodies taken by the Nazi
> > > > > Germans themselves do instead? We have lots of them as reminders of a dark, dank,
> > > > > and ugly past.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Messenger
> > > >
> > > > ==================================================
> > > > Phillips
> > > >
> > > > I've said it a dozen times already and I will probably have to say it an
> > > > additional dozen times in the future. We have never disputed the fact
> > > > that many people died at those places. What is in question is HOW they
> > > > died.
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, what is in question is your credibility. After all, you are the man
> > > who denies mountains of evidence about the Holocaust and yet professes a
> > > belief in vampires, Jewish ritual murder and, saints preserve us, the
> > > coming toilet paper shortage to be caused by Y2K. You must have done
> > > some nasty drugs to get your brain as fried as this.
> > >
> > > Steve
> >
> > Boy, when I get some time, I am gonna have to go through DejaNews looking for this
> > vampire stuff. I haven't paid much attention to Phillips in a while, so I missed that.
> > And the Y2K TP shortage.
> >
> > Vampires, huh? Yeeesh.
>
> Suggest you wait for a time when you're feeling a little blue and can
> use some yuks. If I had saved the posts, I'd forward them to you but I
> was laughing so hard I couldn't click on "file".
>
> Steve
Well, I did find this exchange yesterday, which was a hoot in and of itself:
"> If you can't be convinced that there is no such thing as a vampire,
=======================================================================
Phillips
Convince me there is no such thing as a vampire."
That's right up there with Booger's Bible codes, ya know? Whatta yutz!
Gord McFee
Richard Phillips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Laura Finsten wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:26:15 -0400, Richard Phillips
> > <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Richard Phillips wrote:
> >
> > [deletia - looks like you're talking to yourself, Mr. Philllllips,
> > these attributions are really messed up]
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > >> > > Archaeological evidence might well support a case that people died
> > >> > > there. But just what can it tell us about HOW they died?
> >
> > Another classic denier red herring.
> ======================================================
> Phillips
>
> A red herring, indeed. You know, Laura Feinstein (sorry, Finsten) PhD,
> given all the "red herrings" reported on this NG, I could open a stall
> in Fanueil Hall in Boston.
>
> OK now suppose you tell us, drawing upon the vast erudition implicit in
> your PhD title, just exactly WHAT 50-years-buried corpses can tell us
> about the cause of death. I assume you will give due account to the
> inevitable process of decomposition.
Perhaps you could tell us what difference the cause of death makes when
you have a mass grave with dimensions that easily hold 500,000 burned
corpses? How do you suppose 500,000 people were killed and burned and
buried in that immense pit, and all this in about a year?
[deleted]
> Fuck your "convergence." I am asking you what is it about 50-year old
> corpses that informs of the caues of death.
Your usual "intellectual" response when the falseness of your "argument"
has been exposed.
[deleted]
> > By your criteria of 'proof' there never could be. So you can keep
> > your head in the sand, or whatever other dark place you prefer, to
> > continue justifying your perverse prejudice and persistent and willful
> > ignorance. The exemplar denier - demand the one kind of proof that is
> > impossible, and ignore everything else.
>
> ==============================================================
> Phillips
>
> In a manner that is hardly untypical of academics, you are attempting to
> make a simple thing complicated. You people claim that x-million or
> x-hundred thousand Jews were zapped in gas chambers. OK, you'll have to
> prove it and the first step is to convince that there ever WERE
> execution gas chambers operating at those centres allegedly set up for
> the purpose. There is no way around it, so spare me any more bilge about
> 'convergence."
Nice evasion Phillips. How do you suppose those 500,000 remains got
into a mass grave in a place called Belzec?
> > 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves, Mr. Phillllips. A football field
> > dug to a depth the same as the height of a four-storey building.
> > Filled with the cremated and decomposing corpses of those sent to
> > Belzec in cattle cars.
>
> ==============================================================
> Phillips
>
> Life is pure hell; my haemorrhoids bleed for them. Now convince me that
> there were gas chambers.
Who cares? There were 500,000 people killed there.
--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time
Gord McFee
Richard Phillips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Buck Turgidson wrote:
[deleted]
> > You're living in a fantasy land for liars, Phillips. I am not distancing myself from anything. I was, at
> > first, trying to reasonably state how the evidence, not only by preponderant weight but by
> > interconnectedness, would stand enough to prove that the gassings occurred even if certain parts of
> > evidence were, say, unavailable for review. You, on the other hand, having been unable to refute that
> > argument, are playing semantic tiddlywinks.
> >
> > There is far more proof of the gas chambers than a two-bit Denier like you can dismiss.
> ==================================================================================
> Phillips
>
> No good. I am not buying any bilge about "convergence" and I'm not
> buying any bilge about "preponderant weight" and I'm not buying any
> bilge about "interconnectedness."
So much for any pretence that Phillips makes of being a revisionist.
> I want hard physical evidence of the
> existence and operation of gas chambers. This must take the form of (a)
> detailed construction drawings, (b) manual for operation and
> maintenance, (c) a report by reputable scientists of the modus operandi.
> THAT's it and there is no way around it so don't even try.
No need to get around it. It has all been supplied.
> > > Well I'm not going to let you off the hook; we're going to get to the
> > > bottom of this, once and for all. So, until the question is settled, we
> > > are going to talk about gas chambers and nothing else.
> >
> > Since that's the only subject you are well-versed enough that you can weasel around in.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > THEREFORE: Please answer the question:Is it your contention that Jews
> > > (and possibly others) were executed en masse in mass-execution gas
> > > chambers designed for that purpose. Yes or no.
> > >
> > > If your answer is yes, provide me with irrefutable proof of it.
> >
> > I believe the proper answer is GFY, Phillips. You have seen irrefutable proof of it. It's been put out
> > here every day. You have the words of the Nazis; you have photos of extant gas chambers at Majdanek;
> ================================================================================================
> Phillips
>
> THose photos of the "gas chambers" at Majdanek. Tell we: how do we KNOW
> they are gas chambers.
Because we have functioning brains.
> > Nazi testimonies on how those chambers were used that corroborate the photos
> ========================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Ah yes, those testimonies. Tell me something. Why would men freely
> testify to things that could get them hanged and, in some cases, did.
That's funny. Herr Münch testified to it and he wasn't hanged.
> ; and of course, piles of
> > the dead.All those photos of the hastily-charred skeletons at Majdanek, not fully cremated because there
> > were so many.
> ================================================================
> Phillips
>
> Piles of the dead. That only tells us they are dead. It tells us nothing
> about HOW they died.
How do *you* suppose they died? 500,000 people at Belzec.
> > Problem is, you--like the other Deniers--live to pretend that the evidence just isn't good enough to
> > convince you. Makes ya feel good to be carrying on Hitler's torch sixty years late, huh? I guess the
> > sense of accomplishment you get from slandering the dead more than makes up what you have not been able
> > to accomplish in life.
>
> The problem (for you) is that I'm an obstinate sonafabitch who is
> inclined to agree with Freud that all men are liars.
I take it you include yourself, or do you not think you are a man?
> > Go to the Holocaust History Project site. Look up Dachau. There are 47 pictures and accompanying text
> > that cast a cold, clear light on your Denial.
> ===============================================================
> Phillips
>
> What could I possibly learn there that has not beem stated here.
Why don't you look? That's what research is about.
[deleted]
Richard Phillips
>
> In <37F00926...@mediaone.net>, on Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:17:42 -0400,
Phillips
Because people died there.
===================================
>
> > > 37,000 cubic metres of mass graves, Mr. Phillllips. A football field
> > > dug to a depth the same as the height of a four-storey building.
> > > Filled with the cremated and decomposing corpses of those sent to
> > > Belzec in cattle cars.
> >
> > ==============================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Life is pure hell; my haemorrhoids bleed for them. Now convince me that
> > there were gas chambers.
>
> Who cares? There were 500,000 people killed there.
===================================================
Phillips
Died, not necessarily killed. i'm afraid we have to leave it that way
because Laura Finsten, PhD,
notwithstanding her outraged academic ego, has failed to show us
anything more.
===================================================================================
Richard Phillips
>
> In <37F0254E...@mediaone.net>, on Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:17:50 -0400,
> Richard Phillips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> > Buck Turgidson wrote:
>
> [deleted]
>
> > > You're living in a fantasy land for liars, Phillips. I am not distancing myself from anything. I was, at
> > > first, trying to reasonably state how the evidence, not only by preponderant weight but by
> > > interconnectedness, would stand enough to prove that the gassings occurred even if certain parts of
> > > evidence were, say, unavailable for review. You, on the other hand, having been unable to refute that
> > > argument, are playing semantic tiddlywinks.
> > >
> > > There is far more proof of the gas chambers than a two-bit Denier like you can dismiss.
> > ==================================================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > No good. I am not buying any bilge about "convergence" and I'm not
> > buying any bilge about "preponderant weight" and I'm not buying any
> > bilge about "interconnectedness."
>
> So much for any pretence that Phillips makes of being a revisionist.
>
> > I want hard physical evidence of the
> > existence and operation of gas chambers. This must take the form of (a)
> > detailed construction drawings, (b) manual for operation and
> > maintenance, (c) a report by reputable scientists of the modus operandi.
> > THAT's it and there is no way around it so don't even try.
>
> No need to get around it. It has all been supplied.
Phillips
WHAT has been supplied? The things i have asked for? If they have,
kindly dig up the posts. And, please, no more childrens' websites.
===============================================
>
> > > > Well I'm not going to let you off the hook; we're going to get to the
> > > > bottom of this, once and for all. So, until the question is settled, we
> > > > are going to talk about gas chambers and nothing else.
> > >
> > > Since that's the only subject you are well-versed enough that you can weasel around in.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > THEREFORE: Please answer the question:Is it your contention that Jews
> > > > (and possibly others) were executed en masse in mass-execution gas
> > > > chambers designed for that purpose. Yes or no.
> > > >
> > > > If your answer is yes, provide me with irrefutable proof of it.
> > >
> > > I believe the proper answer is GFY, Phillips. You have seen irrefutable proof of it. It's been put out
> > > here every day. You have the words of the Nazis; you have photos of extant gas chambers at Majdanek;
> > ================================================================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > THose photos of the "gas chambers" at Majdanek. Tell we: how do we KNOW
> > they are gas chambers.
>
> Because we have functioning brains.
==============================================
Phillips
Once again: how do we know they are execution gas chambers? And, please:
no more 60 IQ inanities masquerading as wisecracks.
==========================================================================
>
> > > Nazi testimonies on how those chambers were used that corroborate the photos
> > ========================================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Ah yes, those testimonies. Tell me something. Why would men freely
> > testify to things that could get them hanged and, in some cases, did.
>
> That's funny. Herr Münch testified to it and he wasn't hanged.
==================================================================
Phillips
I said "in some cases." Will it help if I use larger type?
===========================================================
>
> > ; and of course, piles of
> > > the dead.All those photos of the hastily-charred skeletons at Majdanek, not fully cremated because there
> > > were so many.
> > ================================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Piles of the dead. That only tells us they are dead. It tells us nothing
> > about HOW they died.
>
> How do *you* suppose they died? 500,000 people at Belzec.
==========================================================
Phillips
I haven't a clue. I've already said it several times. You people claim
Jews were gassed in large numbers. I'm doing nothing but sitting here
and challenging you to prove it. There's no way around it.
==============================================================================================
>
> > > Problem is, you--like the other Deniers--live to pretend that the evidence just isn't good enough to
> > > convince you. Makes ya feel good to be carrying on Hitler's torch sixty years late, huh? I guess the
> > > sense of accomplishment you get from slandering the dead more than makes up what you have not been able
> > > to accomplish in life.
=======================================================
Phillips
"slandering the dead" Christ-on-a-crutch. If your object is to make
throw up all over my brand-new keyboard, you're going about it the right
way.
======================================================
> >
> > The problem (for you) is that I'm an obstinate sonafabitch who is
> > inclined to agree with Freud that all men are liars.
>
> I take it you include yourself, or do you not think you are a man?
>
> > > Go to the Holocaust History Project site. Look up Dachau. There are 47 pictures and accompanying text
> > > that cast a cold, clear light on your Denial.
> > ===============================================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > What could I possibly learn there that has not beem stated here.
>
> Why don't you look? That's what research is about.
=======================================================
Phillips
Research is only a means TO a goal; it is not a goal in its own right.
It requires an expenditure of time and energy - both of which resources
are necessarily limited and both of which might be used for a more
profitable endeavour. That is why we do not make research grants to
count the number of telegraph poles in Fayette County, Alabama.
===========================================
>
> [deleted]
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Gord McFee wrote:
> [...deletia...]
>> Why don't you look? That's what research is about.
>=======================================================
>Phillips
>
>Research is only a means TO a goal; it is not a goal in its own right.
>It requires an expenditure of time and energy - both of which resources
>are necessarily limited and both of which might be used for a more
>profitable endeavour.
Yes -- how dare anyone try to distract Liar Philllips from his holy quest
to corner the toilet paper market in Derry?
Jeffrey G. Brown
Wannabe Richard Philllips <rgph...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Orac wrote:
> [...deletia...]
>> Apparently you've forgotten that such evidence has also been posted on
>> multiple occasions...
>
>================================================
>Phillips
>
>See above.
Yes, everyone, please review the latest tactic from Liar Philllips: when
reminded that the evidence he seeks has, in fact, been presented, play the
Senility Gambit and claim forgetfulness.