holocaust faker explains himself
Heinrich
ZuLu
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j30sWIOMIak&feature=related
Very edifying, what an example to naive people!
To Rudolf Vrba, the first reporter of "massive gassings" at Auschwitz, the excuse for
his LIES was the use of "poetical license" as he told during the Zundel's trial at
Toronto.
On that video, It is fantastic to see how, even after being picked with his fingers
in the marmalade, Rosenblat is still insisting in telling "it's not a lie...it is
true in my imagination". What a fucking motherfucker! Who is he pretending to deceive
with that bullshit?
Who the fuck can believe in "gas chambers" stories told with that same barefaced bad
faith. Who can seriously assume that those few so called "eyewitnesses" were not LYING?
WE KNOW that they LIED first by inventing that the "gassing operations" were supposed
to be carried out SECRETLY while a simple observation of the places CONTRADICT such
allegation....
Moreover, NOTHING, NEITHER DOCUMENTS NOR MATERIAL PROOF sustain their LIES.
We are just forced by law to believe them. How many time that hoax can survive?
mirjam
Holocaust denier Irving is jailed
David Irving arrived at court carrying a copy of one of his books
British historian David Irving has been found guilty in Vienna of
denying the Holocaust of European Jewry and sentenced to three years
in prison.
He had pleaded guilty to the charge, based on a speech and interview
he gave in Austria in 1989.
"I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at
Auschwitz," he told the court in the Austrian capital.
Irving appeared stunned by the sentence, and told reporters: "I'm very
shocked and I'm going to appeal."
An unidentified onlooker told him: "Stay strong!"
Irving's lawyer said he considered the verdict "a little too
stringent".
"I would say it's a bit of a message trial," said Elmar Kresbach.
Karen Pollock, chief executive of the UK's Holocaust Educational Trust
welcomed the verdict. "Holocaust denial is anti-Semitism dressed up as
intellectual debate. It should be regarded as such and treated as
such," Ms Pollock told the BBC News website.
But the author and academic Deborah Lipstadt, who Irving
unsuccessfully sued for libel in the UK in 2000 over claims that he
was a Holocaust denier, said she was dismayed.
"I am not happy when censorship wins, and I don't believe in winning
battles via censorship... The way of fighting Holocaust deniers is
with history and with truth," she told the BBC News website.
I'm not an expert on the Holocaust
David Irving
Case prompts Austria case
In quotes: Reaction
Fears that the court case would provoke right-wing demonstrations and
counter-protests did not materialise, the BBC's Ben Brown at the court
in Vienna said.
Irving, 67, arrived in the court room handcuffed, wearing a blue suit,
and carrying a copy of Hitler's War, one of many books he has written
on the Nazis, and which challenges the extent of the Holocaust.
Irving was arrested in Austria in November, on a warrant dating back
to 1989, when he gave a speech and interview denying the existence of
gas chambers at Auschwitz.
He was stopped by police on a motorway in southern Austria, where he
was visiting to give a lecture to a far-right student fraternity. He
has been held in custody since then.
'I've changed'
During the one-day trial, he was questioned by the prosecutor and
chief judge, and answered questions in fluent German.
He admitted that in 1989 he had denied that Nazi Germany had killed
millions of Jews. He said this is what he believed, until he later saw
the personal files of Adolf Eichmann, the chief organiser of the
Holocaust.
"I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when
I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I
wouldn't say that now," Irving told the court.
"The Nazis did murder millions of Jews."
In the past, he had claimed that Adolf Hitler knew little, if
anything, about the Holocaust, and that the gas chambers were a hoax.
COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Israel
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Switzerland
Timeline: David Irving
Denying the Holocaust
The judge in his 2000 libel trial declared him "an active Holocaust
denier... anti-Semitic and racist".
On Monday, before the trial began, he told reporters: "I'm not a
Holocaust denier. Obviously, I've changed my views.
"History is a constantly growing tree - the more you know, the more
documents become available, the more you learn, and I have learned a
lot since 1989."
Asked how many Jews were killed by Nazis, he replied: "I don't know
the figures. I'm not an expert on the Holocaust."
Of his guilty plea, he told reporters: "I have no choice."
He said it was "ridiculous" that he was being tried for expressing an
opinion.
"Of course it's a question of freedom of speech... I think within 12
months this law will have vanished from the Austrian statute book," he
said.
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
BBC NEWS: VIDEO AND AUDIO
Hear David Irving's comments before the sentencing
SEE ALSO:
Irving case prompts Austria law debate
21 Feb 06 | Europe
In quotes: Irving jailed
20 Feb 06 | Europe
Irving tests Europe's free speech
16 Feb 06 | Europe
Profile: David Irving
18 Nov 05 | UK
How 'Holocaust denier' fought and lost
18 Nov 05 | Europe
Austria holds 'Holocaust denier'
17 Nov 05 | Europe
'Holocaust denier' loses appeal bid
20 Jul 01 | UK News
The fight against Holocaust denial
14 Apr 05 | Europe
RELATED BBC LINKS:
Holocaust Denial
The Holocaust
RELATED INTERNET LINKS:
David Irving
Holocaust Education Trust
The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites
RJ11
(snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
Deal with the facts, nazi kook.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
Mass graves found at Nazi camp
Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
death camp in north-eastern Poland.
The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation
in the summer, said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
</quote>
RJ.
Don Ocean
Mirjam, Does this man going to jail for utilizing free speech
delight you? Correct or incorrect...Free speech is an inalienable human
right. Even for you. I personally hope that those that wrote such
draconian laws burn in Hell, if there is such a place. David Irving
is *not* on my favored list, but he still has the right to free speech.
ZuLu
ALL DEBUNKED
ZuLu
Rosenblat free vs Irving in jail, try to find the mistake....
Patrick Keenan
"Don Ocean" <oc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7lkvicF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> Mirjam, Does this man going to jail for utilizing free speech
> delight you? Correct or incorrect...Free speech is an inalienable human
> right.
In point of fact, it is not, and has never been.
There are no countries on this planet that have it, or have ever had it.
And I include the USA, which has pretty much the same number of legal
restrictions on speech that other Western countries do.
Incidentally, countries that find it necessary to use attacks (verbal or
physical) on Jews or Israel tend to have many more restrictions on speech.
You really might want to consider education.
mirjam
> Mirjam, Does this man going to jail for utilizing free speech
> delight you? Correct or incorrect...Free speech is an inalienable human
> right. Even for you. I personally hope that those that wrote such
> draconian laws burn in Hell, if there is such a place. David Irving
> is *not* on my favored list, but he still has the right to free speech.
>
This man didn`t go to jail because he `utilized free speech` , this
man has declared himself to be a historion and as such published and
falseified historical facts.
In the British court he admitted that he wasn`t a historion and that
he might have been wrong.
But you of course know that , but happily ignore this fact.
mirjam
mirjam
> ALL DEBUNKED- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you an historion ? have you ever read any document ? seen a camp
ruins ? been to Germany ?Poland spoke to any surviver ? and or any
researcher of that time?
mirjam
Heinrich
"mirjam" <mir...@actcom.co.il> schreef in bericht
news:74bf6078-0c62-4234...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
irving has the right to say whatever he wants.that the jews donot like it
that is their problem. the jews should stop whining about an event that took
place a very long time ago and stop thinking they were the only victims
I'll Always Be 08/11/09
<7ln4p7F...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
You are forgetting that it was Irving
that sued Lipstadt for saying what she
wanted. If you don't like it, you should
stop whining about this event that took
place a long time ago.
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 08/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:aussies_suck-E149...@aries.ka.weretis.net...
stop whining about lipstadt she has been dealt with. suggest you start
writing another books about colombus
I'll Always Be 08/11/09
<7ln6frF...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
It's you that are whining, whining,
whining. Suggest you read a book, any
book
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 08/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
i donot read books anymore since the invention o the internet
Patrick Keenan
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de> wrote in message
news:7ln4p7F...@mid.individual.net...
The events in question took place with in the living memory of some people.
In addition, there are many groups who maintain the memory of events that
took place well outside of living memory. Consider the US's 4th of July
celebrations, Guy Fawkes day, Islamic events remembering the martyrdom of
Ali in 661, Serbian rememberance of the battle of Kosovo in 1389, and on
and on. Try learning some history.
Mr. Irving has the same speech rights as everyone else. This means that he
may *not* say "whatever he likes" without legal repercussions. There aren't
any nations on this planet that have or have ever had unrestricted free
speech.
-pk
Patrick Keenan
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de> wrote in message
The point, of course, is that it was Mr. Irving who attempted to prevent Ms.
Lipstadt from saying what she wanted. Speech seems to be a freedom you want
to extend only to Mr. Irving.
Why is that?
Patrick Keenan
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de> wrote in message
That is a foolish approach. Much material in books is not available
online.
I'll Always Be 08/11/09
<7logp4F...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
That is your version, but where is your
proof?
(None of your fabrications, now, just
the truth!)
I'll Always Be 08/11/09
<8-Kdnd3nndNksGrXnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@supern
ews.com>,
"Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null>
wrote:
But there isn't much porn in books that
isn't available online and that's all
that matters to heinie
Heinrich
"Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null> schreef in bericht
news:8-Kdnd3nndNksGrX...@supernews.com...
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 08/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 08/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
shut up fool go and play another record
Heinrich
"Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null> schreef in bericht
>entitled to say what they want (with fair means o course)
Heinrich
"Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null> schreef in bericht
I'll Always Be 09/11/09
<7lq07oF...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
She did. She said his writing was
inaccurate. She laid out her proofs. He
did not believe in her right to prove
him wrong so he sued her. A real giggle
for him. He steals money from his
supporters and loses the case.
Apparently people like irving aren't
believers in free speech
I'll Always Be 09/11/09
<7lq056F...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
I can't, you own the record player
I'll Always Be 09/11/09
<7lq011F...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
But books are even better, especially
when they aren't available online
TallHenry
> Rosenblat free vs Irving in jail, try to find the mistake....
The mistake is that Nazis are allowed to live. They
should be exterminated like cockroaches, and their
carcasses used to feed pigs.
ZuLu
I can't believe, we have an ardent supporter of Rosenblat-it
was-true-in-my-imagination here!
Imbecile, you dare to call "nazis" the people who tell that Rosenblat is a fucking
LIAR! Ask the opinion of the audience of that video and you will find a lot of them,
idiot.
You forgot to add "antisemitic" to be completely ridicule...
Heinrich
"TallHenry" <n...@home.org> schreef in bericht
news:hd9prk$vc6$1...@pcls6.std.com...
yawn.your contribution to mankind is completely zero
Heinrich
"ZuLu" <Zu...@gloogloo.com> schreef in bericht
news:4af8...@news.x-privat.org...
donot get upset zulu.that guy is a disgrace to mankind. i think he is a
sheepshearer and those people are always rude
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 09/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:aussies_suck-9C6D...@aries.ka.weretis.net...
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 09/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:aussies_suck-F47D...@aries.ka.weretis.net...
oke that woman got her 5 m of fame and let us now go on further
TallHenry
In article <4af8...@news.x-privat.org>, ZuLu <Zu...@gloogloo.com> wrote:
> TallHenry escribi:
>> The mistake is that Nazis are allowed to live. They
>> should be exterminated like cockroaches, and their
>> carcasses used to feed pigs.
> I can't believe, we have an ardent supporter of Rosenblat-it
> was-true-in-my-imagination here!
Nazi cockroaches should die. That's it.
I'll Always Be 09/11/09
<7lsgjkF...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
Actually the point is that irving got
more than 5 minutes of well deserved
infamy.
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 09/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
Patrick Keenan
Then your comments are worthless.
>but bothe are entitled to say what they want (with fair means o course)
Mr. Irving does not agree with you. His view is clearly, and this is
knowable from observation of his ligitious behaviour, that no-one is
entitled to say anything critical about *him*.
Go learn something. And by the way, this information *is available
online*.
>
Patrick Keenan
news:q5dgf5dmj55j3nq05...@4ax.com...
No, I am demonstrating that Mr. Irving and his supporters do not wish to
allow anyone else the right of speech.
>Ms. Lipstadt's poisonous personal
> invective was
Was in reality a detailed and truthful examination of Mr. Irving's history
of falsehoods and fabrication.
Mr. Irving objected because it was true.
> intended to do somebody harm, in this case David Irving,
Meaning that if people realized he was lying and making things up, sales
might suffer.
And meanwhile, in the real world, the work of real historans faces the same
kind of detailed examination. It's called peer review.
If Mr. Irving wanted to be taken seriously as an historian, he would have
had to accept the reality of that scrutiny.
> whereas Irving's historical opinions harm nobody.
Thanks for making clear that you believe that the publication of lies and
fabrications is harmless.
-pk
I'll Always Be 10/11/09
<7ltv18F...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
It ends when we say it ends
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 10/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:aussies_suck-88EE...@aries.ka.weretis.net...
au contraire mon ami, be a good doggie and do asyou are told because you are
noty in a position to give orders
Heinrich
"Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null> schreef in bericht
>blame me
I'll Always Be 10/11/09
<7lvag6F...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
It ends when I say it ends
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 10/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
I'll Always Be 11/11/09
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 11/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:aussies_suck-20C7...@aries.ka.weretis.net...
you are supposed to be in bed at this time of the day
I'll Always Be 11/11/09
<7m261vF...@mid.individual.net>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
I determine what you think. I'll let you
know when it is time for you to start
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 11/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
it is good to see that ater my wise words you went to bed.considering this
re0ply o yours you must have dremt aout cowboys and indians
I'll Always Be 11/11/09
<4afc5d7c$0$30725$2e0e...@news.tweakdsl
.nl>,
"Heinrich" <Hein...@Ruhrgasnet.de>
wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> news:74bf6078-0c62-4234-b4a7-ae78344ab718@v30g2000yqm.g
Sorry, but I'm not dutch
ZuLu
> Mr Zulu ?
>> ALL DEBUNKED- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Are you an historion ? have you ever read any document ? seen a camp
> ruins ? been to Germany ?Poland spoke to any surviver ? and or any
> researcher of that time?
> mirjam
The issue is exactly that: gas chambers matter is a TECHNICAL QUESTION and we have
all documented technical material necessary to understand the matter. SS have left
the quasi totality of the plans of construction of their supposed "death factories".
So, the verdict is clear to every engineer or technician who studies seriously that
topic: the rooms built at the Kremas of Birkenau were actually MORGUES and not
ludicrous "gas chambers". The plans are clear: "Leichenkeller" is the label for those
rooms and NOTHING on all the construction support that weren't. On the opposite, MANY
TECHNICAL DETAILS show blatantly that the allegation of their "transformation"[*] in
"gas chambers" is RIDICULE.
So, it is not surprising at all that NO MATERIAL EVIDENCE can support that "gas
chamber" hoax.
The day scholars receive a little help by real engineers they we'll understand how
wrong they have been.
[*] Why a "transformation" to start? The supposed "extermination plan" was supposedly
established in January 1941 according to the "Hoess confessions" or in January 1942
according with the Wannsee believers.
As the plans for the construction of the alleged "death factories" (4 Crematoriae at
Birkenau) were established in mid 1942, a logical question comes in mind:
why didn't SS make the things "right" at the first time by building real gas chambers?
Why did they start by making MORGUES to "transform" them in "gas chambers" as alleged
by Pressac?
Which "explanation" has been given by your "historians" just on that single point?
ZuLu
_ G O D _
news:4afc8ec9$1...@news.x-privat.org...
> mirjam escribi�:
>> Mr Zulu ?
>> ruins ? been to Germany ?Poland spoke to any surviver ? and or any
>> researcher of that time?
>> mirjam
>
> wrong they have been.
>
>
You did not answer to a single question....
Isn't it obvious that your intent is to deny
that slavery and genocide was inflicted
upon Jews and many other hostages of
the incarceration industry during Hitler's
rule in Germany (on sectarian grounds)?
There is no point to deny that. Because,
what's happened then is still happening
now, even today in brutal violation of the
Human Rights - which was unanimously
adopted only a few years after that war....
--
_____________________________________________________
I intend to last long enough to put out of business all COck-suckers
and other beneficiaries of the institutionalized slavery and genocide.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 11/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
sympathy
I'll Always Be 13/11/09
<4afcea3d$0$19690$2e0e...@news.tweakdsl
Your sympathy means as much to me as you
being dutch means to me
Heinrich
"I'll Always Be 13/11/09" <aussie...@invalid.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:aussies_suck-C148...@aries.ka.weretis.net...
you sound ungrateful but that will probably becaused by the fact that it is
getting late in california and you ran out of beer
I'll Always Be 13/11/09
<4afcf37c$0$19716$2e0e...@news.tweakdsl
You sound dutch
ZuLu
Focus on the topic, idiot, it is about that Rosenblat-aws-true-but-not-true and
Rosenblat-is-was-true-on-my-imagination saga here.
If that fucking LIAR saw that SS who imprisoned him were "very" bad, so that
affirmation must be taken with some prudent suspicion.
I didn't see the Opfrah's show, did that fucking LIAR tell something about "gas
chambers"?
ZuLu
That woman dared to put on his blog that Faurisson was condemned by a French court
for being a "falsifier of history". Such affirmation is FALSE.
I am afraid, on the light of her demonstration of such a deep ignorance of the facts
and so biased writing, that by examining her history books some inaccuracies or
biased interpretations of documents wouldn't be difficult to discover.
I'll Always Be 13/11/09
<4afd...@news.x-privat.org>,
ZuLu <Zu...@gloogloo.com> wrote:
Which has nothing at all to do with the
fact that irving sued HER for claiming
his research/facts was faulty.
>
> I am afraid, on the light of her demonstration of such a deep ignorance of
> the facts
> and so biased writing, that by examining her history books some inaccuracies
> or
> biased interpretations of documents wouldn't be difficult to discover.
But you make that statement without
reading anything she has written or
subjecting your conclusions for peer
review (something that she was not
afraid to do).
That must make you biased. Give me an
"engineer" and I show you a biased
researcher
ZuLu
> "ZuLu" <Zu...@gloogloo.com> wrote
> news:4afc8ec9$1...@news.x-privat.org...
>> mirjam escribi�:
>>> Mr Zulu ?
>>> Are you an historion ? have you ever read any document ? seen a camp
>>> ruins ? been to Germany ?Poland spoke to any surviver ? and or any
>>> researcher of that time?
>>> mirjam
>>
>> The day scholars receive a little help by real engineers they we'll
>> understand how
>> wrong they have been.
>>
>>
>> Which "explanation" has been given by your "historians" just on that
>> single point?
>
> You did not answer to a single question....
>
> Isn't it obvious that your intent is to deny
> that slavery and genocide was inflicted
> upon Jews and many other hostages of
> the incarceration industry during Hitler's
> rule in Germany (on sectarian grounds)?
Slavery OK, planed extermination NO.
> There is no point to deny that.
Deny what? Tales told by LIARS?
> Because,
> what's happened then is still happening
> now, even today in brutal violation of the
> Human Rights - which was unanimously
> adopted only a few years after that war....
Yeah, it happens every day because Israel has been committing such crimes against
Palestinian people non stop since 1948.
Patrick Keenan
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:38:42 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null>
> opponents making loud demands to imprison them for their published
> opinions.
Are you sure you want to go with that?
>
>>
>>-pk
I'll Always Be 14/11/09
Slavery? Really?
Planned extermination? Can you provide
some documents that verify this? You
know with the names and dates of those
who wrote this plan, because we know it
would have to be in writing for it to be
a valid plan and even then we'd have to
have verifable proof that there was
clear verbiage stating this, not some
vague verbiage like "relocation"
Patrick Keenan
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:33:15 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null>
> imprison or otherwise oppress anybody who disagrees with their
> presentation and interpretation of historical events.
That would be false, since very few people are imprisoned or oppressed for
disagreeing with the accepted history. Instead, scholars, students,
researchers and other people discuss, publish, and dispute the evidence
every day without any sanction.
Only a handful of countries, all of which were directly affected by the
events, outlaw the denial of the crimes or promotion of the ideologies that
led to them. They know the truth, which is that the falsehoods underneath
National Socialism and the racial ideologies that formed it are not
harmless.
If you want imprisonment and oppression, look at the countries that promote
Holocaust denial and "revisionism". Those countries regularly imprison
and/or kill those who dissent.
In the case of Iran's propaganda exercise called a "revisionist conference",
most of those people who have direct experience with the events were
prohibited by force of arms from attending.
Your complaints are not convincing.
> "History" is essentially the propaganda of the victors, but only for a
> time. Eventually, revisionists poke holes in the propaganda of the
> victors and, over time, a rather different picture emerges. It has
> happened to all previous historical events and it will also happen
> with this one.
It happens already since the documents, remains, belongings, graves,
chemical traces etc are examined every day.
Holocaust deniers and "revisionists" have utterly failed to produce any
evidence to change our understanding of any significant aspect of the
history. Instead, they regularly demonstrate their ignorance and
impotence by trotting out clumsy attempts at deception like the non-existent
"Krege report".
RJ11
(snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
Deal with the facts, nazi kook.
(snip)
Two of the Birkenau crematoriums:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema3.shtml
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/krema4.shtml
A document which mentions a "gassing cellar" in an Auschwitz-Birkenau
crematorium:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Vergasungkeller.shtml
A document requesting cyanide gas detectors for an Auschwitz-Birkenau crematorium:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Gas-Detector.shtml
Cremation furnaces:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/furnaces.shtml
A report by SS experts, estimating the cremation capacity in Auschwitz-
Birkenau at 4,756 corpses in 24 hours:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/furnace-capacity.shtml
SS labor deployment report, listing 870 stokers in the Auschwitz-
Birkenau crematoriums:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.shtml
A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas chambers:
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
RJ.
RJ11
> So, it is not surprising at all that NO MATERIAL EVIDENCE can support that "gas
> chamber" hoax.
A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas
chambers can be found in
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
RJ.
TallHenry
> TallHenry escribi�:
>> Nazi cockroaches should die. That's it.
> Focus on the topic,
I am, you shiteating pig. I am.
RJ11
> Slavery OK, planed extermination NO.
On December 29 1942, Himmler reported to Hitler that 363,211
Jews were executed during August-November 1942.
Source: Report to the Fuhrer No. 51, 29.12.42, signed by H. Himmler,
in Bundesarchiv, NS 19/2566.
A few scans of this document appear on the web, for example
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Himmler_report.jpg
The interesting fact is that this document does not refer
to the total number of Jews murdered during this period, but
covers only those Jews murdered in the areas of the USSR
which were occupied by Germany.
RJ.
Patrick Keenan
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:57:01 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null>
> discard your model.
You may choose to pretend that this isn't the reality, but that doesn't make
it reality.
>> Instead, scholars, students,
>>researchers and other people discuss, publish, and dispute the evidence
>>every day without any sanction.
>
> You're living in a dream world, Patrick.
No, I live in the real world, where the details of the Holocaust are
discussed and disputed, and these published, every day, without any
sanction.
And of course, you have no comments on these hard manifestations of reality.
ZuLu
Violation of human rights is not always about slavery or extermination. It can be
also about steal of lands, massacres, assassination, war crimes and ethnic cleansing.
ZuLu
<quote>
DOCUMENTS
The standard version of events is that the Allies examined 100,000 documents and
chose 1,000 which were introduced into evidence, and that the original documents were
then deposited in the Peace Palace at The Hague. This is rather inexact.
The documents used in evidence at Nuremberg consisted largely of "photocopies" of
"copies". Many of these original documents were written entirely on plain paper
without handwritten markings of any kind, by unknown persons. Occasionally, there is
an illegible initial or signature of a more or less unknown person certifying the
document as a 'true copy'.
Sometimes there are German stamps, sometimes not. Many have been 'found' by the
Russians, or 'certified authentic' by Soviet War Crimes Commissions.
Volume XXXIII, a document volume taken at random, contains 20 interrogations or
affidavits, 12 photocopies, 5 unsigned copies, 5 original documents with signatures,
4 copies of printed material, 3 mimeographed copies, 3 teletypes, 1 microfilm copy, 1
copy signed by somebody else and 1 unspecified.
The Hague has few, if any, original documents. The Hague has many original postwar
'affidavits', or sworn statements, the Tribunal Commission transcripts, and much
valuable defense material. They have the 'human soap', which has never been tested,
and the 'original human soap recipe' (Document USSR-196), which is a forgery; but
apparently no original wartime German documents. The Hague has negative photostats of
these documents, on extremely brittle paper which has been stapled. To photocopy the
photostats, the staples are removed. When they are re-stapled more holes are made.
Most of these documents have not been photocopied very often, and officials at The
Hague say it is very unusual for anyone to ask to see them.
The National Archives in Washington (see Telford Taylor's Use of Captured German and
Related Documents, A National Archive Conference) claim that the original documents
are in The Hague. The Hague claims the original documents are in the National Archives.
The Stadtarchiv N�rnberg and the Bundesarchiv Koblenz also have no original
documents, and both say the original documents are in Washington. Since the originals
are, in most cases, 'copies', there is often no proof that the documents in question
ever existed.
Robert Jackson got the trial off to a start by quoting the following forged or
otherwise worthless documents: 1947-PS; 1721-PS; 1014-PS; 81-PS; 212-PS; and many
others (II 120-142 <<141-168>>).
1947-PS is a 'copy' of a 'translation' of a letter from General Fritsch to the
Baroness von Schutzbar-Milchling. The Baroness later signed an affidavit stating that
she never received the letter in question (XXI 381 <<420-421>>).
The falsified 'letter' from General Fritsch to the Baroness von Schutzbar-Milchling
was recognized as such during the trial and is not included in the document volumes,
where it 11 should appear at XXVIII 44. Jackson was not, however, admonished by the
Tribunal (XXI 380 <<420>>).
The enthusiastic Americans apparently forged 15 of these 'translations', after which
the original documents all disappeared (See Taylor, Captured Documents).
1721-PS is a forgery in which an SA man writes a report to himself about how he is
carrying out an order which is quoted verbatim in the report. Handwritten markings on
page 1 (XXI 137-141 <<157-161>>; 195-198 <<219-224>>; 425 <<470>>; XXII 147-150
<<169-172>>.
See also Testimony before the Commission, Fuss, 25 April, and Lucke, 7 May 1946). The
National Archives have a positive photostat of 1721-PS, and The Hague has a negative
photostat. The 'original' is a photocopy (XXVII 485).
1014-PS is a falsified 'Hitler Speech' written on plain paper by an unknown person.
The document bears the heading 'Second Speech' although it is known that Hitler gave
only one speech on that date. There are four versions of this speech, 3 of them
forgeries: 1014-PS, 798-PS, L-3, and an authentic version, Ra-27 (XVII 406-408
<<445-447>>; XVIII 390-402 <<426-439>>.
The third forgery, Document L-3, bears an FBI laboratory stamp and was never even
accepted into evidence (II 286 <<320-321>>), but 250 copies of it were given to the
press as authentic (II 286-293 <<320-328>>).
This document is quoted by A.J.P. Taylor on page 254 of The Origins of the Second
World War (Fawcett Paperbacks, 2nd Edition, with Answer to his Critics) giving his
source as German Foreign Policy, Series D vii, No 192 and 193.
L-3 is the source of many statements attributed to Hitler, particularly "who today
remembers the fate of the Armenians?" and "our enemies are little worms, I saw them
at Munich". 'Hitler' also compares himself to Genghis Khan and says he will
exterminate the Poles, and kick Chamberlain in the groin in front of the
photographers. The document appears to have been prepared on the same typewriter as
many other Nuremberg documents, including the two other versions of the same speech.
This typewriter was probably a Martin from the Triumph-Adler-Werke, Nuremberg.
81-PS is a 'certified true copy' of an unsigned letter on plain paper prepared by an
unknown person. If authentic, it is the first draft of a letter never sent. This is
invariably spoken of as a letter written by Rosenberg, which Rosenberg denied (XI
510-511 <<560-561>>). The document lacks signature, initial, blank journal number (a
bureaucratic marking) and was not found among the papers of the person to whom it was
addressed (XVII 612 <<664>>). 81-PS is a 'photocopy' with a Soviet exhibit number
(USSR-353, XXV 156-161).
212-PS was also prepared by an unknown person, entirely on plain paper, without any
handwritten markings, date, address, or stamp (III 540 <<602>>, XXV 302-306; see also
photocopies of negative photostats from The Hague).
This is, unfortunately, only typical. Document 386-PS, the 'Hossbach Protokoll',
Hitler's supposed speech of 5 November 1938, is a certified photocopy of a microfilm
copy of a retyped 'certified true copy' prepared by an American, of a retyped
'certified true copy' prepared by a German, of unauthenticated handwritten notes by
Hossbach, of a speech by Hitler, written from memory 5 days later. This is not the
worst document, but one of the best, because we know who made one of the copies. The
text of 386-PS has been 'edited' (XLII 228-230).
Thus 'trial by document' works as follows: A, an unknown person, listens to alleged
'oral statements' made by B, and takes notes or prepares a document on the basis of
those alleged oral statements. The document is then introduced into evidence, not
against A, who made the copy, but against B, C, D, E and a host of other people,
although there is nothing to connect them with the document or the alleged
statements. It is casually stated as fact that 'B said', or that 'C did', or that 'D
and E knew'. This is contrary to the rules of evidence of all civilized countries.
Nor are the documents identified by witnesses.
The forgery of original documents was rarely resorted to at Nuremberg, because the
documents were not brought to court. The "original document" - that is, the original
unsigned "copy" - was kept in a safe in the Document Centre (II 195 <<224>>, 256-258
<<289-292>>).
Then, 2 "photocopies" of the "copy" (V 21 <<29>>) or 6 photocopies (II 251-253 <<284-
286>>) were prepared and brought to court. All other copies were re-typed on a
mimeograph using a stencil (IX 504 <<558-559>>).
In the transcript, the word "original" is used to mean "photocopy" (II 249-250
<<283-284>>; XIII 200 <<223>>, 508 <<560>>, 519 <<573>>, XV 43 <<53>>, 169 <<189>>
171 <<191>> 327 <<359>>), to distinguish the photocopies from the mimeograph copies
(IV 245-246 <<273-274>>).
"Translations" of all documents were available from the beginning of the trial (II
159-160 <<187-189>>, 191 <<219-220>>, 195 <<224>>, 215 <<245>>, 249-250 <<282-283>>,
277 <<312>>, 415 <<458>>, 437 <<482-483>>), but the "original" German texts were not
available until at least two months later. This applies not just to the trial briefs
and indictment, etc. but to ALL DOCUMENTS. The defense received no documents in
German until after January 9, 1946 (V 22-26 <<31-35>>).
Documents which appear to have been prepared on the same typewriter include Document
3803-PS, a letter from Kaltenbrunner to the Mayor of Vienna, and the cover letter
from this same Mayor sending Kaltenbrunner's letter to the Tribunal (XI 345-348
<<381-385>>). This letter from Kaltenbrunner contains a false geographical term (XIV
416 <<458>>).
Pages 10 to 12 of
Carlos W. Porter, Not Guilty at Nuremberg
Download: PDF: 0.2 MB
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres3/CPeng.pdf
ZuLu
You nazi bastard, you just make a pitiful diversion. So pathetic.
I'll Always Be 16/11/09
<4b01...@news.x-privat.org>,
ZuLu <Zu...@gloogloo.com> wrote:
And you can provide us with some
documents that verify that this is
Israels plan? I mean that's the question
you ask of us, seems only fair for you
to provide the same level of proof you
expect of us
george
is going to court to answer for his crimes.
ZuLu
NOTHING NEW, ALL DEBUNKED.
ZuLu
ZuLu
ZuLu
Open a book written by an Israeli new historian, all is on it.
I'll Always Be 19/11/09
<4b04...@news.x-privat.org>,
ZuLu <Zu...@gloogloo.com> wrote:
What makes you think anyone is going to
do research for you?
RJ11
(snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
Deal with the facts, nazi kook.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
Mass graves found at Nazi camp
Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
death camp in north-eastern Poland.
The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation
in the summer, said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
</quote>
RJ.
ZuLu
I don't pretend to put you off of your ignorance if you feel good as you are.
ZuLu
DEBUNKED
Patrick Keenan
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:43:49 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" <te...@dev.null>
> expressing any doubt about the allied version of WW2, and all your
> babble to the contrary won't change that fact.
Sorry, but that isn't a factual statement.