Message for atheists
BertM
I have been through 5 different religions, caused by parents separating,
remarrying, living with different relatives during my younger years.
I have always been interested in religion and what makes it "tick"
It is amazing that a book written in printed form about 400 years ago and
according to experts not clearly and literally translated has been accepted
as gospel truth.
I like talking to people with strong faith and respect them especially when
tohey talk without quoting the phrases in the bible but from real life
experiences
I have been searching for over 50 years to find a book that had some logic
and reasoning instead of making people fear rather than love God
I ended up having no man-made religion and turned more to books that gave me
enlightenment and particulalrly a book I just finished reading:
Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch
Get it and it will change your life!
Bert
Steven Botts
"BertM" <bmul...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:gY7C8.106534$o66.3...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
If you liked "Conversations with God" you should love "A Course in
Miracles."
Steve
Frank Furter
> remarrying, living with different relatives during my younger years.
>
> I have always been interested in religion and what makes it "tick"
>
> It is amazing that a book written in printed form about 400 years ago and
> according to experts not clearly and literally translated has been accepted
> as gospel truth.
Scary, isn't it?
> I like talking to people with strong faith and respect them especially when
> they talk without quoting the phrases in the bible but from real life
> experiences
Actually, if you give those people a bible and tell them to read it from front
to back (which many never do, they just like to wave them around) they will turn
into atheists too. I did. Everyone I have given a bible to to read has.
> I have been searching for over 50 years to find a book that had some logic
> and reasoning instead of making people fear rather than love God
Ah, but religion only works on the basis of fear. Without fear, there is no way
to make anyone believe in gods they can not see. Just as you get children to
behave in the Santa Claus religion that unless they are good, they will not get
any presents. The great Santa Claus sees ALL children and what they are doing
at all times. No child can hide from the great Santa Claus.
Besides, no one can LOVE a god that creates a world in which everything has to
kill in order to eat and survive. No one loves a god that creates mosquitos,
poisonous plants and spiders, cancer, aids, birth defects, suffering, pain,
grief, and all of his other great ideas.
REMEMBER:
If god can prevent evil, but doesn't, then He isn't all-loving.
If god intends to prevent evil, but cannot, then He isn't omnipotent.
If god both intends to prevent evil and is capable of doing so, then how can
evil exist?
> I ended up having no man-made religion and turned more to books that gave me
> enlightenment and particulalrly a book I just finished reading:
>
> Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch
>
> Get it and it will change your life!
Reading the bible is enough to change one's life after seeing all the
contradictions, tortures by god, sex and violence, in one of the scariest
science fiction novels of all time.
But seriously, reading a book by someone else and taking everything that author
says for fact is no better than following someone else's religion. Put the
books down, and start thinking for yourself. Write your OWN books. Observe
people and nature and figure it out yourself, it is not hard. Just by that
basis alone, I was able to figure out that the big bang theory could never have
happened when I was only a teenager! Yet scientists controlled by the church
will still not let that theory go, even though it was disproved a few years ago
by observation.
Here is where to start....
Sit down in a quiet room, and ask yourself why every civilization in human
society has created some religion with some sort of a god. Once you figure
out why this is, then ask yourself why they don't use the same logic to create a
god for their god, and you will instantly become enlightened and realize why
there can be no god. No books needed, just sit and think about it.
Also note:
Everytime man creates a god, it has been disproved as technology and
intelligence advanced.
When man was smart enough to realize that statues were not gods, they evolved
god into things like the Sun. When man was smart enough to figure out what the
Sun was, and that it was not a god, they evolved god into something, that was
again out of grasp of man to disprove. God has now evolved into an invisible
one that you can not feel, see, hear, or anything. A bit harder for someone to
disprove in today's technology, right? See the pattern?
But remember it is not always up to a person to disprove someone else's theory
or god, it is the person who makes up the claim, to prove it. If I say there
is a giant 300 ton invisible monster that lives at the bottom of the atlantic
ocean, and tell you to PROVE it does NOT EXIST, you can NOT prove that it does
not exist! You really CAN'T prove it doesn't exist! So, then I smile to
myself and say: "There you GO! I must be right!"
It is not up to YOU to DISPROVE my monster does not exist, it is up to ME to
PROVE that it does before anyone can start to believe in it! It is MY theory
that I made without any proof whatsoever to come to that conclusion, so if I
can't prove it, only an IDIOT would have blind faith that my monster exists!
Does a christian god exist? PROVE IT. Only an idiot can have blind faith in
it otherwise.
bbaker
"BertM" <bmul...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:gY7C8.106534$o66.3...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Still can't get past the attempted conversion of atheists ... can you!?!?
Try "Mr. God This Is Anna" - by Fynn.
Dana Sindell
a loaded gun at him (or her) and is about to die, chances are he (or she)
will call out to the God they do not believe in. Last words of so-called
"athiests" have been recorded, right before death: "Oh my God!"
-Dana
"bbaker" <bba...@aol.net> wrote in message news:<lKcC8.81685$vX.4939@rwcrnsc53>...
John Ings
wrote:
>There are no real athiests. If an "athiest" is faced with someone pointing
>a loaded gun at him (or her) and is about to die, chances are he (or she)
>will call out to the God they do not believe in. Last words of so-called
>"athiests" have been recorded, right before death: "Oh my God!"
That a man will grasp at any straw in desperation doesn't negate the
validity of his considered opinions when not under duress. Nor does an
invocation of a deity's name indicate actual belief in that deity,
## Dear God! Please save me from all your followers!
iciek
news:538f8989.0205...@posting.google.com...
> There are no real athiests. If an "athiest" is faced with someone
pointing
> a loaded gun at him (or her) and is about to die, chances are he (or she)
> will call out to the God they do not believe in. Last words of so-called
> "athiests" have been recorded, right before death: "Oh my God!"
Read what you have written (esp the last three words) and you will learn
something.
The first is meaningless.
The second is possesive
The third is defined by the person themself.
Do you really know what people mean when they communicate with you or is it
YOUR understanding of what YOU think they say ?
--
No mail accepted from Yahoo.com due to preponderance of SPAM
Paul Hume
> There are no real athiests.
That's true, though there are real atheists.
> If an "athiest" is faced with someone pointing
> a loaded gun at him (or her) and is about to die, chances are he (or she)
> will call out to the God they do not believe in. Last words of so-called
> "athiests" have been recorded, right before death: "Oh my God!"
>
Why is the image of someone crouching over a cassette player or vcr,
looking at tapes of people being shot, and checking to see if the ones
she thinks are atheists say "Ohmigod" as they are shot, disturbing?
Why is the image of a couple of Dominicans disturbing, bending over
the rack so that they can hear the person stretched on it agree that
she fucked the Devil at the Sabbat and cursed her neighbor's cow?
Oh that's it...trying to build a case for pne's particular dogma out
of the ultimate agony of another human being. THAT'S what was
disturbing me.
We will leave aside that (while I am not an atheist) I formally
renounced Christianity over 30 years ago...but when some asshole cuts
me off in traffic I am still as likely to yelp "Jesus Christ!" as I am
to yip "Reharakhty!" Some profanities are culturally imprinted, Dana.
Paul
Steven Botts
pointing
> a loaded gun at him (or her) and is about to die, chances are he (or she)
> will call out to the God they do not believe in. Last words of so-called
> "athiests" have been recorded, right before death: "Oh my God!"
>
> -Dana
Could be. But then the last words of many others have been "Oh, shit!" Now
what does that prove?
Frank Furter
> There are no real athiests.
Then there would be no real theists by the same logic.
It really IS physically and mentally possible for someone not to believe in a god.
(atheist)
> If an "athiest" is faced with someone pointing
> a loaded gun at him (or her) and is about to die, chances are he (or she)
> will call out to the God they do not believe in.
Again, you make things up to try and prove a point, just like in your religion. How
and who ever took a scientific survey of people being murdered and having guns pointed
at them to see what they would say before they were about to die? These survey
takers were PRESENT during these illegal acts? If so, there is no way they could be
published in any journal. Also, one would have had to have known if the people were
atheists or not before the murder took place, how was this performed?
Can you also give the percentages of theists (god believers) who during the same
experiments did NOT call out to god, but rather said things like: "There is no god!
No loving god would allow me to die when I have 2 young children who can not take care
of themselves!"
I would say that percentage would be quite high, but we need you to release the actual
statistics of this illegal survey and let us know where it was published.
> Last words of so-called
> "athiests" have been recorded, right before death: "Oh my God!"
I have also used that phrase, as well as: "Jesus fucking christ!" but never was even
THINKING about god or jesus when I used them, they are just common expressions and
show no more belief in a god as shouting: "Holy fucking shit!" does. There is no
such thing as "holy fucking shit" just as there is no such thing as "god" or "jesus
christ". They are only expressions.
One would also have to note that even if someone decided to BELIEVE in a god before
death out of fear, that it would 1) not be a RATIONAL thought, and 2) would not make
god any more real or make him magically exist.
Just as believing in Santa Claus before one's death, would not make Santa Claus become
real either.
JDub
> Dana Sindell wrote:
> > If an "athiest" is faced with someone pointing
> > a loaded gun at him (or her) and is about to die, chances are he (or
she)
> > will call out to the God they do not believe in.
A silly claim as others have pointed out.
My first hand experiences simply don't fit your prediction. I'm an atheist
that has come within moments of death a few times, and I've NEVER thought
about calling out for help from God or anyone else. I've found myself quite
busy dealing with the immediate danger that I faced. The experiences, while
lasting only seconds, seemed prolonged by the temporal distortion (that
feeling that everything is happening in slow motion), and I've felt like I
had plenty of time to think about all sorts of odd things. In each case, I
chose to focus on what I could do to save my ass, it never even occured to
me to give up and ask someone or something else to save me. OK, there was
that one time I shouted to bystanders to call the police while I struggled.
These experiences have prompted me to coin the phrase:
"If you've got time to panic, you've got time to do something more
productive." Quite literally, words to live by IMHO.
-Josh
bbaker
pointing
> a loaded gun at him (or her) and is about to die, chances are he (or she)
> will call out to the God they do not believe in. Last words of so-called
> "athiests" have been recorded, right before death: "Oh my God!"
>
> -Dana
In your fantasy world, maybe!
"Oh my god" is a phrase - it does not mean a belief in god!
BTW .. you don't happen to have any evidence to support your claim about
those "last recorded words" ... do you?
I didn't think so!
bbaker
"John Ings" <nos...@ottawa.com> wrote in message
news:9clkducfp6p3i8qpa...@4ax.com...
Thank god I'm an atheist!
Dana Sindell
is a person who DOES NOT KNOW if there is a God.
In this series, we are writing about if there is ANY GOD,
not necessarily the Christ of Christianity. I myself am
a Born Again Christian, but in this discussion, I am not
writing about my personal beliefs in Christianity.
The question in this discussion is do people believe absolutely
that there is no God. I believe many of you are agnostics-
you do not know. This would also explain the statement of
a person at the point of death, saying "Oh, my God!"- it could
be a last, terrifying cry of a person who knows their life is
almost over and does not know what they will be facing after
death.
If someone, out of desperation, calls out to a God that before
they did not know existed, it is not necessarily to the Christian
God, I will admit that- they are despirately seeking some Diety
- Jewish, Moslem, Buddist, Christian, or whatever- to know if
there is some type of existance beyond this earthly, mortal one.
-Dana
"bbaker" <bba...@aol.net> wrote in message news:<KRAC8.6362$Po6...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>...
bbaker
> I did not write that there are not agnostics. An agnostic
> is a person who DOES NOT KNOW if there is a God.
>
> In this series, we are writing about if there is ANY GOD,
> not necessarily the Christ of Christianity. I myself am
> a Born Again Christian, but in this discussion, I am not
> writing about my personal beliefs in Christianity.
>
> The question in this discussion is do people believe absolutely
> that there is no God.
You mentioned atheists.
Atheists do not believe there is no god.
Atheists assert that there is nothing to believe in, becuase there is no
evidence of anything to believe in.
Something called, maybe,an "anti-theist" might claim there is no god.
I believe many of you are agnostics-
> you do not know.
You claim other people do not know what they believe?
That's more than slightly arrogant!
This would also explain the statement of
> a person at the point of death, saying "Oh, my God!"- it could
> be a last, terrifying cry of a person who knows their life is
> almost over and does not know what they will be facing after
> death.
It carries as much weight as "oh shit" - unless the person saying it intends
it to mean more.
Your claim was that it WAS (automatically) more.
>
> If someone, out of desperation, calls out to a God that before
> they did not know existed, it is not necessarily to the Christian
> God, I will admit that- they are despirately seeking some Diety
> - Jewish, Moslem, Buddist, Christian, or whatever- to know if
> there is some type of existance beyond this earthly, mortal one.
And if I stub my toe .. and say "oh shit" ... I'm automatically thinking of
defecating in the bathroom?
Frank Furter
> is a person who DOES NOT KNOW if there is a God.
Right, you wrote that there are no atheists. An atheist is a person who does not believe in a god.
And atheists DO exist.
I will show you how stupid your statement is, and why it is wrong with this simple analogy:
First I will make up three words to mean the same as the three we have for god, and just make them
for Santa Claus instead.
Theist - One who believes in a god.
Atheist - One who does NOT believe in a god.
Agnostic - One who does not know, or is not sure.
Santaist - One who believes in Santa Claus
Asantaist - One who does NOT believe in a Santa Claus
Agnosantaic - One who does not know, or is not sure.
Now, to tell someone that a Asantaist does not exist, or there can be no such thing as an Asantaist,
because all people must believe in Santa Claus is just as idiotic and insane as saying it is not
possible for anyone to not believe in a god!
If you tell me YOU don't believe that Santa Claus or the tooth fairy are real, and I argue with you
that in fact you DO believe they are real, what kind of idiot would that make me? A big idiot.
> In this series, we are writing about if there is ANY GOD,
> not necessarily the Christ of Christianity.
You can take ANY god that is described by ANY religion and prove they do not exist by the
contradictions that can ALWAYS be found in ANY religion or mythology. You can not disprove any
god, until you make up a description for that god and have something you can start disproving.
One thing that CAN be said for fact, is that one of the following MUST BE TRUE....
1) There is no god.
2) god is evil.
One of the above 2 MUST be true.
We can also say for a fact:
A god, as the christian mythology DESCRIBES, does NOT EXIST.
We know and CAN PROVE this from observation in the real world, which is how we prove everything we
know as facts.
> The question in this discussion is do people believe absolutely
> that there is no God. I believe many of you are agnostics-
> you do not know.
You believing that, does not make it true, just as your believing in a god does not make him exist.
If you tell me you do not believe the tooth fairy exists, and I tell you that you don't really
believe that no tooth fairy exists, you are just not sure if one exists or not, would my saying so be
correct?
You believe that I am an agnostic, I am telling you that you are wrong, and that I am an atheist. I
sure know better than you what I believe and am thinking better than you can, right?
Admit you are wrong, because you are. Telling atheists they are really agnostics is like telling
christians they are really buddhists.
> This would also explain the statement of
> a person at the point of death, saying "Oh, my God!"- it could
> be a last, terrifying cry of a person who knows their life is
> almost over and does not know what they will be facing after
> death.
We already explained this to you in other posts. MANY of us explained this to you in many different
ways. Why do you post replies without reading what you are replying too?
Oh my god is just an expression. Most people that use that expression are not even thinking about
god when they say it! Saying "Holy Shit" when someone is dying does not mean they believe in, or
worship shit, nor do they believe that shit is holy.
> If someone, out of desperation, calls out to a God that before
> they did not know existed, it is not necessarily to the Christian
> God, I will admit that- they are despirately seeking some Diety
> - Jewish, Moslem, Buddist, Christian, or whatever- to know if
> there is some type of existance beyond this earthly, mortal one.
Not all do this, but yes, some do. The reason for this is because of "the god part of the brain"
(there is a book with the same name you can get and read) Through evolution, humans started to
think and understand that they all die and there is no way to stop one from dying. The thought of
knowing one would die and there is not anything they could do about it would drive most people insane
and would be thinking about it constantly. Thus the god part of the brain which gives that false
hope of a life after death, so they can concentrate on something else and not fear death quite as
much. Such as the strong desire and urge for sex and finding someone of the opposite sex to be with
is stronger than rational thought and choice, so is this instinct and belief in the afterlife. Now
some people are born without this and are allowed to use logical reasoning and thoughts without the
god part of the brain interfering.
Believe me when I tell you, I will not be calling out to any gods when it is my time to die, instead
I will be looking forward to getting away from human society and never having to deal with it again.
I will embrace death with open arms! And I am TELLING you this, so you can believe it, unlike your
god who has never told you anything! Every single thing you think you know about god or religion
has been told to you by a HUMAN! Think about it.
Frank Furter
> Atheists do not believe there is no god.
Main Entry: athe·ist
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who denies the existence of God
> Atheists assert that there is nothing to believe in, becuase there is no
> evidence of anything to believe in.
> Something called, maybe,an "anti-theist" might claim there is no god.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
The word anti-theist is not in the dictionary (nor is heterophobe for some
discriminatory reason) but the word antitheist would mean someone who is against
theists, or god believers. Someone who hates religious fanatics could be
called an antitheist, just as an antireligious person is against religion.
You don't seem to even get simple things like this correct that you could look
up in a dictionary, so how do you ever think you would have the intelligence or
qualifications to discuss god or religion?
> I believe many of you are agnostics-
I believe you are a child molester. Does that mean that you are, because I
believe it?
The best way I can think of for you to get better, is to first realize you have
a comprehension problem. Then to start off, you should take everything you
believe is one way, and realize that it is just the opposite. If you do this,
you will find out that life will be much easier for you and things will start
falling into place and making a lot more sense. Try it! Hope you get better
soon. :)
bbaker
"Frank Furter" <ffu...@ffurter.com> wrote in message
news:3CDBE2EA...@ffurter.com...
> > You mentioned atheists.
> > Atheists do not believe there is no god.
>
> Main Entry: athe·ist
> Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
> Function: noun
> : one who denies the existence of God
I contacted M-W (and others) a while ago, and pointed out the irrationality
of denying the existence
of something you don't believe in, in the first place.
The returned a friendly e-mail stating they were changing this definition in
later editions of the dictionary.
>
> > Atheists assert that there is nothing to believe in, becuase there is no
> > evidence of anything to believe in.
> > Something called, maybe,an "anti-theist" might claim there is no god.
>
> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
>
> The word anti-theist is not in the dictionary (nor is heterophobe for some
> discriminatory reason) but the word antitheist would mean someone who is
against
> theists, or god believers. Someone who hates religious fanatics could be
> called an antitheist, just as an antireligious person is against religion.
Since "athiests" do not "claim there is no god" ... I merely suggested a
term for those who make that claim.
>
> You don't seem to even get simple things like this correct that you could
look
> up in a dictionary, so how do you ever think you would have the
intelligence or
> qualifications to discuss god or religion?
Bwahahhaaaa .......... and you seem to have confused Dana ... the one who
made the original post ... with me, someone who answered Dana's post!
Before you start pointing out the mistakes of others, make sure yours aren't
more outrageous!
Brian Norris
absence of belief not not validate or invalidate the possibility that
realities "exist" that we (as a species) have yet to discern simultaneously.
The phrases on shouts out on their deathbed or in throws of an incredible
orgasm have no connection to any spiritual quest or divine revelation.
--
Passionately,
Brian Norris
http://www.briannorris.com
"bbaker" <bba...@aol.net> wrote in message
news:o4LC8.14259$RR3.7617@sccrnsc02...
jda
news:abk0sp$m...@dispatch.concentric.net...
> (snip) ... or in throws of an incredible orgasm have no connection to any
spiritual quest or divine revelation.
Unless you're Wanda <wa...@pagansexcult.org>, whose signature reads:
> The Lord is my Lover, and he knows I'm horny.
That certainly puts a new twist on things, eh?
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