(The Red Dragon Society Revisited) For Those of You Who Never Read
ren
Back then I was at IAC.NET. That's Internet Access Cincinnati and I was
attending University there. That is when I, Raven, FirEyes, a girl named
Cheri which is the truncated form of Cerridwen, and chiefly Raine in all of
his various spellings of the name started alt.religion.wicca.
In Cincinnati I was part of an organization that focused on Green
Witchcraft. The best way to describe it is the Star Wars analogy. You see in
the fiction of George Lucas each Jedi had to forge his own lightsabre by
focusing the force through a crystal of his or her choosing. That cyrstal
reflected a specific color.
Well in the traditions of Witchcraft that I have been a student of since age
13 and formally initiated at 16 we too focused on our own individual color
for power. In Cincinnati I brought the knowledge I had of the Craft to a
group of people who had studied since their childhoods as well.
We went to the Psychic Fair held in Cincinnati at the time and found people
there who were destined to form a group who focused on red power. This was
the very same power that my mentor Jay McClain had trainned me to work with.
I having worked with VAX systems and computer security in the military was
chosen to explore and develop the power of the Internet to unite those of us
who were students of these traditions of Witchcraft and to discover and
archive the teachings of the world.
It was on alt.religion.wicca that I came in touch with the Red Druids and
other Red Denominations of Jay's Family trade. You see these Welsh Witches
traveled on the winds of the English empire to the far reaches of the earth.
We sought to discover the technical aspects of our Craft and it's origins.
What we found was that this movie "Excalibur" held clues as to the source of
our wisdom and powers. It wasn't until David Day wrote his monumental book
on the truth behind the legend of King Arthur that we were able to decode
what it was all about.
You see. In the 5th Century A.D. Western Europe was invaded by Asiatic Horse
Lords from the East and took over the religion and the government of our
homeland. What we were learning and trying to put together was the racial
religion of the Alano-Sarmatians and the main totem of that race was the
Dragon. Any decendents of this race were known as Dragon Lords and it is
fabled that these Lords came from Sumeria and before that.
This is why we were able to focus this red power and produce miracles. In
our racial memory the Dragon was trying to speak and we were able to
understand. However, these were not good words but words of terrible power
which lead to madness. Every one of us has risked our sanity for
enlightenment. Most of us never recovered including myself.
For what I have seen human beings were not meant to see. Only gods were
meant to know such things. Yet we know and we tremble.
We are called the watchers and we carry on the traditions of our Dragon Lord
ancestors. We teach magick to mortals who have the thirst and hunger for
occult knowledge. Thus I teach here on this newsgroup to all who would
listen. But the Dragon is related to the Trickster and will mix lies with
the truth. Only the truly wise will be able to distinguish it. The others
will die from misuse of the sorcieries we teach.
Why do I refer to myself as we? Because I, Ren, am more than one person.
Many of us post from my network here. And also, there are many spirits in
all of us. Do I have a split personality. No. I know who I am. Do you?
Many have come here to say this and that about Wicca and Traditional
Witchcraft. Some have stayed and continue to contribute being lava lamps and
cat toys. This is not to undermine their contributions. They are most
valuable in the scheme of things.
Those who have not stayed have failed the test.
Raven BlackBane
More like died from a nasty spell.
--
blac...@anneli.com
http://anneli.com/blackbane
IRC : /server anneli.com #witchcraft
creator of alt.witchcraft
creator of alt.traditional.witchcraft
original creator of alt.religion.wicca
don't like my postings, then go to:
alt.religion.wicca.moderated
.--. .----------------
// / \ __ / ---------
///////\( `-, -------
//// /// '~ ( -----
// / // : ) ----- Raven
/ / / /) / ---- BlackBane
/ //..\\ A Real Witch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~UU~~~~UU~~~~~~~~~~~~~
'//||\\`
hybicus
your personal place of power is inside of me, or that I am inside of
you.
Thanks for asking my questions of the day, and answering them where it
is within your power to do so, in a straightforward message of your
own pesonal kinked kind.
Noinden
FAR too much son! Would it not? Why research and tell the truth when a
poorly researched lie will do just as well?
You do not even realise the root of "dragon" in the Welsh folklore.
Nor do you know what "red" stands for in insular Celtic society! I
expected no less from such a poor researcher as you!
Care to show references for any of this? Because with such a known
liar as you it would be needed for any to take it seriously! Oh wait
that is what you want, not to be taken seriously and be left in your
silly little fantasy world. The world where you matter and are not
just another smuck in a go no where job? The one where you lay claim
to others hard work? Fine go ahead; just expect to be bothered by folk
who hold truth as the highest ideal! Because that's what you will get!
Some of us took oaths a long time ago boy!
Cardinal Fang
>So the story goes way back to the formation of alt.religion.wicca.
<snip>
Well, you definitely spin a good story. Beyond personal opinion, I'd say, after the fourth paragraph, the probability of
these events occuring approach or equal zero. Not that it matters much to me, really.
There's a lot out there that's a matter of creative belief, rather than actual fact. Such is faith and spirituality.
Cardinal Fang ho...@earthlink.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lead me not to temptation, I enjoy finding it myself.
ren
Now what was that you were saying about red dragons?
Jaguar
Renfield, renfield.....
-sigh-
I guess I should take heart in that spinning this latest tale ALMOST got
you to pick up & open a history book....
>On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, ren wrote:
snipage occuring
> We sought to discover the technical aspects of our Craft and it's origins.
>
> What we found was that this movie "Excalibur" held clues as to the source of
& now Ren will reciete the Charm of Making for us, all students please
forward the video tape if you don't know the words yet & try to chant
along.
-grin-
Seriously now.
Excalibur? As source material?
Not Wolfram's Parzival, Strassburg's Tristan, Hartman von Aue's Erec, or
Geoffrey of Monmouth, Chretien de Troyes, or even Mallory's Le Morte
D'Arthur?
Sigh.
If Jaguars were not hedonisic, you'd be in jeopordy of being tied
to a chair & forced to read translations of early Arthurian literature.
& dry translations of humorless Russians on Sarmatian history.
(but more on THAT later)
> our wisdom and powers. It wasn't until David Day wrote his monumental book
> on the truth behind the legend of King Arthur that we were able to decode
> what it was all about.
>
> You see. In the 5th Century A.D. Western Europe was invaded by Asiatic Horse
5th - 6th century is when they place one of the possible dates of Arthur's
existance.
So If he is decentant of the horse nomads, as some claim, THAT date would
be too late for the invasion.
& I Think you are mixing up all the horsenomad groups... Huns, Mongols,
Sycthians, Sarmatains...
Any road... the Sarmatains did NOt penetrate very far. Mainly into eastern
Europe.. in the steppes north of the black sea (around Kiev in Russia)
Poland, Hungary, Romania/Bulgaria...
mainly up the Danube river valley.
There they butted heads with Dacians, Romans & Germans.
& stalled out.
In fact, one of the Roman generals Marcus Aurelius Sarmaticus... thus
named because of hard he pounded the Sarmatians in 169AD & forced a peace
treaty on them in 175AD.
His terms were harsh:
Stay away from the Danube &
Cough up 8000 calvary to Rome to use.
Rome liked to take the warriors of conquested hostile groups & throw them
on hostile fronts far away... to keep the troublemakers away & busy.
SO, true to form, 5500 Saramtian calvary wound up stationed along
Hadrian's wall, in brittian, to try to keep THOSE rebellious navites in
line.
So Ren, THAT is why Saramatian's were in Brittian.
Not because the horse nomad's conquests got them that far.
Oh no.
But because One of thier tribes lost badly to rome & had to supply
cannonfodder for the legions to use.
The cannon foder wound up in Brittian.
> Lords from the East and took over the religion and the government of our
Nope.
Never got that far west. (as conquerors)
Eastern europe... you'd have a better case.
& your dates are all off too. 5th century is way to late for Sarmatains.
400 - 200 BC Saramatians show up in the steppes north of the black sea &
become a royal pain to the Scythians.
175 AD for that peace treaty which sent Sarmatain troups to Brittian,
under Rome's banner.
69AD for Sarmatains (Roxolani) invading Dacia.
> homeland. What we were learning and trying to put together was the racial
> religion of the Alano-Sarmatians
Even the greeks, who were in close contact with them (having duked it out
on the banks of the black sea with the scythians & later the Sarmatians)
... even the greeks were fuzzy on the religion.
Sword/war cult is documented... a few other things.
Quite interesting things on the warrior prietess burials in Kurgan
mounds...
But other than that, it is even more fragmentary than what we have for
the Celts.
> and the main totem of that race was the Dragon.
So, tell me:
Why do dragons NOT appear in ANY of the countless artifacts from Sarmatian
burials?
Dragons are not in the iconography.
LOTS of eagles, big cats seizing prey, stags, Griffons even.
But no dragons.
That shoots your totem theory down.
> Any decendents of this race were known as Dragon Lords and it is
> fabled that these Lords came from Sumeria and before that.
Try Central Asian horse nomads.
The languages they spoke are related to Iranian
> This is why we were able to focus this red power and produce miracles. In
TAAA DAAA!
> our racial memory the Dragon was trying to speak and we were able to
> understand. However, these were not good words but words of terrible power
> which lead to madness.
& terrible cravings for crispy fried Knights with bacon on top.
As for the rest... -heh-
Everyone has to have a hobby.
'sides. EVERYONE knows Coyote's weakness.
-evil grin-
JAg
Back to checking for hearts
Terry and Bettijean
with a good belly laugh.
--
Terry
A Pagan Files Archive
http://paganfiles.drak.net
Alexandra Ceelie
> Back to checking for hearts
Find any lately?
=^..^=
The NetKitten
Alexandra Ceelie
http://talk.to/netkitten
ICQ: 1291198
hybicus
You are retard, if not a Liar. If you had actualy been a working part
of as many groups as you claim to have been a part of, then you would
understand fully, why ren acts the way that he does.
de Valois
hybicus wrote in message
<776f94f4.01073...@posting.google.com>...
>You are retard, if not a Liar. If you had actualy been a working part
>of as many groups as you claim to have been a part of, then you would
>understand fully, why ren acts the way that he does.
>
Drugs?
Molested as a child?
Abandonment issues?
Tell us, hy, we'd really like to know why he acts like an unprincipled
childish jerk.
--
Carl
We're bigger than Jesus! - JWLennon
Noinden
> Well now if I gave the facts then I would be violating my oaths, fuck head.
> Now what was that you were saying about red dragons?
How convenient ... violating "oaths" YOU said to PIP that you took no
oaths and thus were not bound! Liar!
Red Dragons are a TSR invention you moron! The Indo-European (IE)
group commonly called the "Celts" no Dragons in root myths. They would
have come via the roman and Greek contacts or latter for the insular
Gaelic "Celts" probably from the IE sea raiders known as the "Vikings"
(probably Danes). The surviving Celtic languages do not have "dragon"
as an indigenous word but rather a BORROWED one. Thus the "red dragon
cult" son is not "Celtic" but rather an amalgam. Sadly it does not
exist in the manner you talk of! It exists as a modern MADE up
"society". I also donut they would accept an untrustworthy little
pixie as you!
Now go away and read some better written books than one about "Asiatic
Arthurs" and the like. OH and get you facts sorted out or folks will
rip you a new one each post you make! Jag did a real number on you
TWICE this week! This time you picked HIS speciality. Last time you
picked mine!
Hell even Terry is able to do a number on you! What's the matter Reny?
Only got your lickspittles left to impress? … How sad
ren
> oaths and thus were not bound! Liar!
There you go reading into things. On what did I take oaths and on what did I
not take oaths? You can't answer that because you are not me.
> Red Dragons are a TSR invention you moron! The Indo-European (IE)
> group commonly called the "Celts" no Dragons in root myths. They would
Listen. Shut your fucking mouth about what you don't know. Is not the symbol
of the Welsh flag a red dragon?
> have come via the roman and Greek contacts or latter for the insular
> Gaelic "Celts" probably from the IE sea raiders known as the "Vikings"
> (probably Danes). The surviving Celtic languages do not have "dragon"
> as an indigenous word but rather a BORROWED one. Thus the "red dragon
Shut the fuck up. I already told the newsgroup that the dragon came from the
Romano-British world of the Sarmatians living in Western Europe. You're just
rephrasing what I said and then claiming I didn't say it. That is why
discussion with you is pointless.
> cult" son is not "Celtic" but rather an amalgam. Sadly it does not
> exist in the manner you talk of! It exists as a modern MADE up
> "society". I also donut they would accept an untrustworthy little
> pixie as you!
How much do you donut? Are you a cop?
> Now go away and read some better written books than one about "Asiatic
> Arthurs" and the like. OH and get you facts sorted out or folks will
You don't even know the title of the book by David Day. It's called.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author
=Day%2C%20David/103-7560876-1315014
The Search for King Arthur
by David Day, Terry Jones (Hardcover - October 1995)
Average Customer Review:
Usually ships in 2-3 days
List Price: $29.95
Our Price: $20.96
You Save: $8.99 (30%)
> rip you a new one each post you make! Jag did a real number on you
> TWICE this week! This time you picked HIS speciality. Last time you
> picked mine!
I don't know what you're talking about. You're special ed.
> Hell even Terry is able to do a number on you! What's the matter Reny?
> Only got your lickspittles left to impress? . How sad
You can't punctuate correctly. How sad.
Jaguar
>On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, ren wrote:
> > Red Dragons are a TSR invention you moron! The Indo-European (IE)
> > group commonly called the "Celts" no Dragons in root myths. They would
>
> Listen. Shut your fucking mouth about what you don't know. Is not the symbol
> of the Welsh flag a red dragon?
>
> > have come via the roman and Greek contacts or latter for the insular
> > Gaelic "Celts" probably from the IE sea raiders known as the "Vikings"
> > (probably Danes). The surviving Celtic languages do not have "dragon"
> > as an indigenous word but rather a BORROWED one. Thus the "red dragon
>
> Shut the fuck up. I already told the newsgroup that the dragon came from the
> Romano-British world of the Sarmatians living in Western Europe. You're just
The Dragon did NOT come from the Sarmatians.
There are no dragons in sarmatian iconography.
No dragons in sarmatian archeological finds - & they have dug up quite a
few burials of warrior-priestesses & the like.
Lots of other totemic animals - Eagles, great cats...
even things like Griffins are found in the artifacts of the mounds.
But not one dragon.
That shoots your theory down.
All other totems are represented.
If dragons are not found in the burials, it would follow that they did NOT
figure prominently in Sarmatain myth or iconograpy, or as a totem.
> > Now go away and read some better written books than one about "Asiatic
> > Arthurs" and the like. OH and get you facts sorted out or folks will
>
> You don't even know the title of the book by David Day. It's called.
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author
> =Day%2C%20David/103-7560876-1315014
> The Search for King Arthur
> by David Day, Terry Jones (Hardcover - October 1995)
> Average Customer Review:
> Usually ships in 2-3 days
Hm.
If it is the book I think it is, I think the scholars have already torn
holes in his theories. I seem to remember reading a review of it.
Tell you what, I'll get my hands on a copy & see how well it matched all
those dry Russian historians that drone on about the Scyths, Sarmatians &
the other central asian horse nomads.
& how it matches the ancient Roman & Greek records.
Ren, did you catch the Scythian Gold exhibit?
If you are intrested in Sarmatians & the like, you should see it.
Many of the artifacts are from Kurgan mound excavations.
I bet you will not see a single dragon in it.
Jag
Jaguar
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Alexandra Ceelie wrote:
> On 7/30/01 11:46 PM, Jaguar at jag...@Radix.Net wrote:
>
>
> > Back to checking for hearts
Actually, the above is a referance to fragments of a Mayan folk song about
Jaguars I stumbled across.
> Find any lately?
Nope.
Unless you count ones on sleeves
-evil grin-
Jag
ren
the eyes of the dragon?
> & now Ren will reciete the Charm of Making for us, all students please
> forward the video tape if you don't know the words yet & try to chant
> along.
> -grin-
http://www.moviesounds.com/excalibr.html
ahNahL NahTHRahKH UeTHBahS BehTHahD DoeKHee ehL Dee ehNVae
breath dragon spell death and life thy sign
of doing
Dragon's Breath!.
Charm of Life And Death!
Your Sign of Making!
Contained on the hilt of Merlin's staff is the Tetragramaton. Basically it's
a figure 8 which denotes the eternal cycles of nature spun by three great
Gods. The Male God "Y" the Female Goddess "V" and the Childlike Force of
Love and Hate that binds them together and sets them spinning. Our physical
world is based on these three forces working together to spin nature into
existence.
Merlin was a follower of the Dragon. The dragon as in the Greek staff of
Mercury is comprised of two serpents entertwined to become one. Thus the red
and white dragons of Merlin's dreams. The Saxons and the Romano-Britons were
prophecied by Merlin to one day become one people. The Christian religion of
the God symbolized by Excalibur the Cross shaped sword and that of the
Goddess religion symbolized by the Holy Grail are united as one and this is
a practice of the Great Rite. Inserting athame into chalice. World unity.
Cooperation and the freedom to believe in the God of your choice for
according to Merlin's religion all Gods are aspects of the Dragon.
And now you know the Charm of Making. Call the God of Death and the Goddess
of Life together to Make Love. Their union will produce change. The dragon's
breath will come and your power will manifest.
> & dry translations of humorless Russians on Sarmatian history.
> (but more on THAT later)
Yes well I've had 10 years to devote my time to that study.
> 5th - 6th century is when they place one of the possible dates of Arthur's
> existance.
> So If he is decentant of the horse nomads, as some claim, THAT date would
> be too late for the invasion.
Read David Day's book. I am not arguing the time and place of the truth of
the mythology. It is mutually agreed by scholars that Arther is a composit
of many heros of the day, even Irish ones.
> & I Think you are mixing up all the horsenomad groups... Huns, Mongols,
> Sycthians, Sarmatains...
No I'm not. Scythians and Sarmatians are ethnic cousins as well as the
Cimmerians. All groups settled in Western Europe. The Sarmatians later under
the Pax Romana.
> Any road... the Sarmatains did NOt penetrate very far. Mainly into eastern
> Europe.. in the steppes north of the black sea (around Kiev in Russia)
You are mixing up the Alans with the Sarmatians. The Sarmatians were Roman
Cavalry who occupied places such as North Umbria. The Alans made deep
strides into Western Europe in their day.
> Poland, Hungary, Romania/Bulgaria...
> mainly up the Danube river valley.
> There they butted heads with Dacians, Romans & Germans.
> & stalled out.
The Sarmatians were conquered by the Romans completely. The Dacians were
also conquered by the Romans. Many Germans were also eventually conquered by
the Romans.
> In fact, one of the Roman generals Marcus Aurelius Sarmaticus... thus
> named because of hard he pounded the Sarmatians in 169AD & forced a peace
> treaty on them in 175AD.
> His terms were harsh:
There was a limited peace treaty and then Roman completely occupied and
changed Sarmatian cuture and land.
> SO, true to form, 5500 Saramtian calvary wound up stationed along
> Hadrian's wall, in brittian, to try to keep THOSE rebellious navites in
> line.
They did not just wound up there. They were sent there by Rome. They were
sent there because they were the fastest and deadliest troops Rome had at
the time. The Palladins of Rome were shock troops and highly effective
against foot raiders from the north.
> So Ren, THAT is why Saramatian's were in Brittian.
> Not because the horse nomad's conquests got them that far.
Did I say that? No.
> Oh no.
> But because One of thier tribes lost badly to rome & had to supply
> cannonfodder for the legions to use.
You got it all wrong. Sarmatian Cavalry the Pallidani enjoyed full Roman
citizenship and could settle the land they were stationed at. They weren't
cannonfodder. They were the most well equipped forces in Western Europe at
the time and they were feared.
> The cannon foder wound up in Brittian.
>
> > Lords from the East and took over the religion and the government of our
>
> Nope.
> Never got that far west. (as conquerors)
Wrong. Cite your evidence. To the contrary there is evidence that the Alans
influenced and shaped Politics and Religion in Europe which would later be
defined as Western European Politics and Religion.
> Eastern europe... you'd have a better case.
They were less influential there. Your Huns, Mongols, and Magyars were
superior riders and archers and completely dominated that theatre.
> & your dates are all off too. 5th century is way to late for Sarmatains.
http://www.angelcynn.org.uk/
Look at the helmuts of this history reconstruction page and you tell me
which would most likely have been worn by the Romano-Britons.
> 400 - 200 BC Saramatians show up in the steppes north of the black sea &
> become a royal pain to the Scythians.
The Scythians and Sarmatians are close ethnic cousins and their greatness
occurs at different times in history.
> 175 AD for that peace treaty which sent Sarmatain troups to Brittian,
> under Rome's banner.
Are you just going to throw this shit on the floor without making any sense
out of it? What are you trying to fortell?
> 69AD for Sarmatains (Roxolani) invading Dacia.
You cut and pasted from a webpage and forgot that you were supposed to
comment about it in your own words.
> Even the greeks, who were in close contact with them (having duked it out
> on the banks of the black sea with the scythians & later the Sarmatians)
The Greeks and the Scythians have the same cultural background, that is, the
Indo-Europeans.
> ... even the greeks were fuzzy on the religion.
The religion of the Sarmatian is known in the artifacts. Dragon symbols on
grave sites and helmuts, insignia after the Roman fashion, the survival of
religious practices such as Communion, drinking the blood and eating the
body of Christ are all originally Sarmatian religious practices. The Celtic
practice of placing a sword as a stelae for the dead with a wreath of
flowers is a Sarmatian religious practice.
> Why do dragons NOT appear in ANY of the countless artifacts from
> Sarmatian burials?
Listen, were are you getting your facts? Dragons permiate Sarmatian burials.
> Dragons are not in the iconography.
> LOTS of eagles, big cats seizing prey, stags, Griffons even.
> But no dragons.
Wrong. Those are uniquely Roman Totems. The dragon was the unique totem of
the Calvary of Hadian's Wall, Sarmatian Shock Cavalry.
> That shoots your totem theory down.
Hardly.
http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/2/ha2tf.htm
http://www.securenet.net/members/swatkins/redragon.htm
http://www.net.hu/hungq/no144/p113.html
You follow the links and bibliography of these links and you'll see
archeological proof that the Sarmatians-Sythians-Alans were all Dragon Totem
peoples. The Sumerians had dragon gods and are the ancestors of the same
people. Do you know the names of those dragon gods?
> > fabled that these Lords came from Sumeria and before that.
>
> Try Central Asian horse nomads.
> The languages they spoke are related to Iranian
Yes. The Sarmatians-Scythians-and Alans all have an Iranian connection.
Sumerians are the ancestors of the Iranians and the Iraqis.
> & terrible cravings for crispy fried Knights with bacon on top.
> As for the rest... -heh-
> Everyone has to have a hobby.
>
> 'sides. EVERYONE knows Coyote's weakness.
> -evil grin-
Pussy? :P
ren
> There are no dragons in sarmatian iconography.
> No dragons in sarmatian archeological finds - & they have dug up quite a
> few burials of warrior-priestesses & the like.
> But not one dragon.
http://www.net.hu/hungq/no144/p113.html
> That shoots your theory down.
> All other totems are represented.
> If dragons are not found in the burials, it would follow that they did NOT
> figure prominently in Sarmatain myth or iconograpy, or as a tote
> Now go away and read some better written books than one about "Asiatic
> > > Arthurs" and the like. OH and get you facts sorted out or folks will
> >
> Tell you what, I'll get my hands on a copy & see how well it matched all
> those dry Russian historians that drone on about the Scyths, Sarmatians &
> the other central asian horse nomads.
> & how it matches the ancient Roman & Greek records.
http://www.net.hu/hungq/no144/p113.html
> Ren, did you catch the Scythian Gold exhibit?
> If you are intrested in Sarmatians & the like, you should see it.
> Many of the artifacts are from Kurgan mound excavations.
> I bet you will not see a single dragon in it.
http://www.net.hu/hungq/no144/p113.html
>
> Jag
>
>
>
>
Noinden
> You are retard, if not a Liar. If you had actualy been a working part
> of as many groups as you claim to have been a part of, then you would
> understand fully, why ren acts the way that he does.
Oh look "Sandy" (if it is?) is getting mad!
Oh and as for the "you are retard"? Is that I am retarded? I am a
retard? Which is it bucko?
Come now "Sandy" you can do better than that! Because YOU look like
the "retard" at the moment!
I use "Sandy", as the email (med...@hushmail.com (hybicus)) is not
one I recognise!
Noinden
> > How convenient ... violating "oaths" YOU said to PIP that you took no
> > oaths and thus were not bound! Liar!
>
> There you go reading into things. On what did I take oaths and on what did I
> not take oaths? You can't answer that because you are not me.
AHHH son but you say, "ren is more than one person". You can not have
it both ways child!
> > Red Dragons are a TSR invention you moron! The Indo-European (IE)
> > group commonly called the "Celts" no Dragons in root myths. They would
>
> Listen. Shut your fucking mouth about what you don't know. Is not the symbol
> of the Welsh flag a red dragon?
You are slipping it is really screwing you over that you are swearing
and being scatological. You loose! I know a LOT more than you ever
would ren. Have you been to Wales? I have. I've walked where I felt
ancient spirits looking into my Soul (to paraphrase Mark Knophler)
A flag is not evidence. It is a modern thing, based around a symbol
from a debased story no more Celtic than wearing green on Saint Pats!
> > have come via the roman and Greek contacts or latter for the insular
> > Gaelic "Celts" probably from the IE sea raiders known as the "Vikings"
> > (probably Danes). The surviving Celtic languages do not have "dragon"
> > as an indigenous word but rather a BORROWED one. Thus the "red dragon
>
> Shut the fuck up. I already told the newsgroup that the dragon came from the
> Romano-British world of the Sarmatians living in Western Europe. You're just
> rephrasing what I said and then claiming I didn't say it. That is why
> discussion with you is pointless.
More swearing? Loosing what is left of your composure son? Bad form!
Such a limited vocab!
I made those points to you far before you said those things! They are
on record!
> > Now go away and read some better written books than one about "Asiatic
> > Arthurs" and the like. OH and get you facts sorted out or folks will
>
ÿ You don't even know the title of the book by David Day
ÿ Yes actually I did read it and threw it away! It is dross; it is
fantasy it is not fact! I simply described it. You seem to be having a
very very bad day ren. Two well-educated pagans teaming up to rip your
little fantasy to shreds … must really hurt that fragile ego of yours!
SNIP (I do not support Spam)
>
> > rip you a new one each post you make! Jag did a real number on you
> > TWICE this week! This time you picked HIS speciality. Last time you
> > picked mine!
>
> I don't know what you're talking about. You're special ed.
More pop culture child. Just watch Jose and the Pussycats" did we? Get
a personality of your own "ren", as it can not be as bad as your
current "borrowed" ones!
Now come up with something more factual! Just like your hero John
Edward you are a fake and a shyster! I also say you are speaking out
of your bechouchie (that is low lands Scots ren try and find out what
it means!)
Ta ta ren. Hope you get a personality soon..... of your own!
Cardinal Fang
>You are retard, if not a Liar. If you had actualy been a working part
>of as many groups as you claim to have been a part of, then you would
>understand fully, why ren acts the way that he does.
I doubt fully that anyone understands what ren does what he does besides ren himself.
ren
> it both ways child!
Listen Pops, you don't even know which child you are speaking to, how can
you know what oaths I have made?
> A flag is not evidence. It is a modern thing, based around a symbol
> from a debased story no more Celtic than wearing green on Saint Pats!
We've been over this before. What is Celtic? Huh? It's a style of art. It's
a culture in Western Europe created out of many cultures.
> More swearing? Loosing what is left of your composure son? Bad form!
> Such a limited vocab!
At least I'm not so lazy as to spell out 'vocabulary.'
> I made those points to you far before you said those things! They are
> on record!
How would you know what I have said before you? I have been here since the
formation of the newsgroup.
> Yes actually I did read it and threw it away! It is dross; it is
> fantasy it is not fact! I simply described it. You seem to be having a
It is wrong to destroy literature.
> very very bad day ren. Two well-educated pagans teaming up to rip your
> little fantasy to shreds . must really hurt that fragile ego of yours!
Hah. How many web sources have you provided in this thread to back up your
claims? By the way, what the hell are you claiming?
> More pop culture child. Just watch Jose and the Pussycats" did we? Get
> a personality of your own "ren", as it can not be as bad as your
> current "borrowed" ones!
I never saw the movie.
> Now come up with something more factual! Just like your hero John
> Edward you are a fake and a shyster! I also say you are speaking out
> of your bechouchie (that is low lands Scots ren try and find out what
> it means!)
My family comes from the highlands, asshole. You call me a fake but it is
you who does not know your history. You spent the entire post making
personal attacks on me and not really trying to disprove my Red Dragon
theories. You are a person of little intelligence and you have not the
ability to debate.
> Ta ta ren. Hope you get a personality soon..... of your own!
Try again, Noinden.
ren
ren > himself.
Caliban understands why I do to Rhyanon what I do. That's pretty much my
method and motivation for the entire newsgroup.
Noinden
> > AHHH son but you say, "ren is more than one person". You can not have
> > it both ways child!
>
> Listen Pops, you don't even know which child you are speaking to, how can
> you know what oaths I have made?
I know what you said child! I have a near photographic memory! I saw
you state you took no oaths! So unless you were lying again (highly
likely) to Pip no less! You are not and never have been a member!
Then again as usual you most probably were playing some foolish game
to look big to your lickspittles!
> > A flag is not evidence. It is a modern thing, based around a symbol
> > from a debased story no more Celtic than wearing green on Saint Pats!
>
> We've been over this before. What is Celtic? Huh? It's a style of art. Its
> a culture in Western Europe created out of many cultures.
No it is not! "Celtic" is a language grouping as well. It is an ethnic
thing. There are cultural things that can be called "Celtic". So the
art is not a marker. Other cultures have very similar if not identical
things in their art. The Saxons, Scandinavians and other IE cultures.
Hell the Maori do as well.
Puppy, if you persist in arguing with those more learned, better read,
and tested than you. You will get your arse kicked each and every
time!
The "Celts" were in a far wider theatre than Western Europe. At least
read your history child! Learn where they were!
Only an ill-educated fool would base labelling of a culture around the
art! Then again as you seem to pick dubious works as sources (books
and web pages)!
The accepted labelling of things Celtic includes LANGUAGE, CULTURE AND
ART. NOT just art!
I would go up a font size if I thought it would drum it into that
fantasy you live in!
> > More swearing? Loosing what is left of your composure son? Bad form!
> > Such a limited vocab!
>
> At least I'm not so lazy as to spell out 'vocabulary.'
I kept it short to make sure you understood! I know the American
school system lets all sorts of riff raff pass, so I thought I would
use SHORT SUCCINCT words, so it did not go above your head … shame I
seemed to have anyhow!
Swearing is a sign of lack of a broader vocabulary ren. You swear
often. You make mistakes with facts. Oh and you have the refractive
index of a diamond in water! (I just called you transparent)
> > I made those points to you far before you said those things! They are
> > on record!
>
> How would you know what I have said before you? I have been here since the
> formation of the newsgroup.
I read these groups a LONG time ren! I've watched from the shadows! I
KNOW what you have said! So don't play that game! I know all your
little tricks! Ever wonder why I never fell for them? I saw them the
first time around!
> > Yes actually I did read it and threw it away! It is dross; it is
> > fantasy it is not fact! I simply described it. You seem to be having a
>
> It is wrong to destroy literature.
It was my property thus I can do, as I will. Also son, "threw it away"
does not mean it was destroyed! Man you really should work on those
reading skills! You insult mine, yet can not deduce the meaning of a
short uncomplicated sentence!
> > More pop culture child. Just watch Jose and the Pussycats" did we? Get
> > a personality of your own "ren", as it can not be as bad as your
> > current "borrowed" ones!
>
> I never saw the movie.
>
> > Now come up with something more factual! Just like your hero John
> > Edward you are a fake and a shyster! I also say you are speaking out
> > of your bechouchie (that is low lands Scots ren try and find out what
> > it means!)
>
> My family comes from the highlands, asshole. You call me a fake but it is
> you who does not know your history. You spent the entire post making
> personal attacks on me and not really trying to disprove my Red Dragon
> theories. You are a person of little intelligence and you have not the
> ability to debate.
First Welsh? Now "highlands"? You can not have it both ways kid! My
clan is MacLachlan, they have the oldest lineage (look it up)… all the
way back to High Kings of Eire. Son if you do not know what LOWLANDS
SCOTS ENGLISH is, you are no highlander and a definate Sassenach!
So what do I know about MY history boy? I've walked in my ancestral
lands! I have taken part in clan business! I have drunk the family
whisky in the family keep! I know my lineage! You were not looking for
debate son! You were looking to make a few of your lickspittles tell
you how "wonderful" you were! What a small self worth you must have!
You taunt you imply; YET you never actually manage to prove! You skip
form latest fad book to newest kook site!
So to clear your head a little from the blows you have received this
far:
A highlander would have spoken both Gaelic and Low lands Scots! Most
possibly they would have spoken English and French too (ever hear of
the "Auld Alliance"?)
YOU swore you insulted! YOU made it personal. I simply attacked your
ideas! You lost your temper son. Made your self look as foolish as
could be, and now you are bright red with embarrassment! Run along boy
your mother is calling you! You should not play in adults games … you
will get hurt!
Run along you wee souk! I can hear your masters calling!
ren
> possibly they would have spoken English and French too (ever hear of
> the "Auld Alliance"?)
Some of my ancestors most suredly spoke French as some of them were of the
Parc family from France.
I'm Irish, I'm Scot, I'm Welsh, English, and French for starters. I'm also
Cherokee Native American as well as Bavarian/Northern Italian.
..and I know a hella lot more about Celtic Archeology and History than you
do.
Cardinal Fang
Note: this assertion could be true, untrue, or just plain irrelevant.
Noinden
<r...@bookofshadows.org> wrote:
> ..and I know a hella lot more about Celtic Archeology and History than you
> do.
PROVE IT
Jaguar
>On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, ren wrote:
> You cast the spell, Jaguar and I shall respond. Are you ready to look upon
> the eyes of the dragon?
On VHS or DVD?
What type of spell do you sugest Ren?
I'll wait while you look it up in the RolePlayer's guide.
> > & now Ren will reciete the Charm of Making for us, all students please
> > forward the video tape if you don't know the words yet & try to chant
> > along.
> > -grin-
>
> http://www.moviesounds.com/excalibr.html
> ahNahL NahTHRahKH UeTHBahS BehTHahD DoeKHee ehL Dee ehNVae
> breath dragon spell death and life thy sign
> of doing
& What language is that supposed to be?
A made up one like Klingon or Esperanto?
> Dragon's Breath!.
> Charm of Life And Death!
> Your Sign of Making!
Ren, the whole point of movies is that they use symbolisim & strike a cord
within us. They are the closest thing to modern myths & folktales we have.
Any good movie will strike chords with symbols & archetypes.
That does NOT mean that the symbols in the movies are ancient,
historically accurate ones.
> Contained on the hilt of Merlin's staff is the Tetragramaton. Basically it's
> a figure 8 which denotes the eternal cycles of nature spun by three great
> Gods. The Male God "Y" the Female Goddess "V" and the Childlike Force of
> Love and Hate that binds them together and sets them spinning. Our physical
> world is based on these three forces working together to spin nature into
> existence.
That is your interpetation of the symbols.
Other people in a different mythological/cultural context may interpet
those same symbols differently.
& you have shown no proof that that is an ancient symbol interpetation,
instead of your own, modern, ellectic path one.
> Merlin was a follower of the Dragon.
Ren, go read the literature on the Arthur cycle.
Merlin is quite a complex character. With ties & overlaps to the earlier
Celtic mythological figures.
> The dragon as in the Greek staff of
> Mercury is comprised of two serpents entertwined to become one.
Which is a GREEK symbol, not Celtic.
So why would a historical Merlin, a Bard, someone trained in
pre-christian religion / native shamanic techniques (Celtic), probably the
court Druid, be using greek symbols?
> Thus the red and white dragons of Merlin's dreams.
Merlin gets mixed up with an older Welsh tale:
That of Lludd & Llevelys.
King Lludd is suffering from three plauges.
"The second Plague was a scream that was heard every May Eve over every
hearth in the island; it pierced the hearts of the people and terrified
them so that men lost thier color and strength, women suffered
miscarriages, children lost thier senses, and animals and trees and soil
and water all became barren."
Llevelys, the Kings brother provides the answers to the plagues.
" 'The second Plauge in your realm,' said Llevelys, " is a dragon.
A dragon of another race, a foreign one, is fighting with it and
struggling to overcome it, and therefore your dragon screams horribly."
Note, Ren, the dragons here represent the life force of a people & the
land they live on. - This is why the the scream saps the fertility &
vitality of the people & land in this tale.
For the Saxon is attacking the Celts - that is the symbolisim.
" This is how you can see for yourself: When you arrive home measure the
length & breadth of the island, and where you find the exact center have a
pit dug; in the pit place a vat full of the best mead that can be made,
with a silk sheet over the vat, and guard all this yourself. You will see
dragons fighting in the shape of monstrous animals untill they finally
rise into the air as dragons, and when they have wearied of thier horrid
and frightening combat they will sink onto the sheet in the form of two
little pigs; they will drag the sheet to the bottom of the vat, and there
they will drink the mead and fall asleep. When that happens you must wrap
a sheet around them & lock them in a stone chest, and bury them in the
earth within the strongest place you know of in the island. As long as
they are in that strong place no plauge will come to Brittain."
-from the Mabinogion, the tale of Lludd and Llevelys.
The preface to this tale mentions:
"The story of the Dragons is told by Nennius. Although its original
significance - the warring dragons were preventing the completeiong of
Vortigen's citadel - is no longer apparent.
Now compare this to the tale found in the Historia Brittonium:
" ... Vortigern fled to Wales where he built a stronghold at Mount Eryi.
The fortess fell down and the wise men he consulted told him that he would
have to sprinkle the foundations with the blood of a fatherless child
before the building would stand firm. The necessary child was found and
was about to be sacrificed when he revealed his name was AMBROSIUS and
that he was the son of a Roman Consul. He also showed Vortigern that there
were two dragons underneath the fortress, one red symbolizing the Brittons
and the other white symbolizing the Saxons."
- Pg 165 The Celts, Uncovering the Mythic & Historic Orgins of Western
Culture. Jean Markale.
It is not untill Geoffrey tells the tale that Merlin makes his way into
this myth.
" Geoffrey introduces one important new element. For his child declares
himself to be Merlinus Ambrosius (the Welsh texts call him Myrddin Emrys)
This is the first written allusion to Merlin whom Geoffrey was ultimately
to make one of the best know literary characters in Europe." -pg 167, same
book.
Point of this longwinded bit is:
Myths have a core, & as a people change the myths change.
Someone who is serious about studying the paths of thier ancestors should
be aware of this & be able to use scholastic techniques to tell a good
source of information from a bad one.
Be able to find that core source material.
Don't get taken in by a modern movie & think that historicaly accuracte
ancient myth/symbolisim.
> The Saxons and the Romano-Britons were
> prophecied by Merlin to one day become one people.
& type me the part of the myth/legend that tells us that.
SHOW ME.
With a good source, like Welsh mythology, or Midieval Arthurian tales.
Document your statement.
Otherwise, you can not claim it anything more than your modern opinion.
> The Christian religion of
> the God symbolized by Excalibur the Cross shaped sword and that of the
Tsk.
All your rattling on about Sarmatains & you miss the chance to mention
thier sword/war god link.
> Goddess religion symbolized by the Holy Grail are united as one and this is
You know the grail is not always a cup, don't you?
> a practice of the Great Rite. Inserting athame into chalice. World unity.
A pretty flower child interpetation for a society that was very military
in nature. Brittain at that time was just starting to rebuild after Rome's
sudden withdrawl. With Saxon invaders on the shore, siezing land &
raiding.
> Cooperation and the freedom to believe in the God of your choice for
> according to Merlin's religion all Gods are aspects of the Dragon.
Face it, this is your modern symbolisim.
Noting wrong with viewing as that - as long as you don't claim that is the
historicaly accurate one.
> And now you know the Charm of Making. Call the God of Death and the Goddess
> of Life together to Make Love. Their union will produce change. The dragon's
> breath will come and your power will manifest.
Hm.
Nice modern electic view.
> > & dry translations of humorless Russians on Sarmatian history.
> > (but more on THAT later)
>
> Yes well I've had 10 years to devote my time to that study.
If you had really studied them for ten years, you'd be able to site
archeology papers & articles as well as historical referances in BOOK
form.
Folks didn't have webpages on that stuff 10 years ago.
& all you have cited are web pages.
Which can rate from great historical accuracy, like the Center for the
Study of Eurasian Horse Nomads (don't know if this page is still up, it
was 2 years ago) ... to some high schoolers web page.
& if you don't know the basics of the history & the archeology, you won;t
be able to tell the difference.
> > 5th - 6th century is when they place one of the possible dates of Arthur's
> > existance.
> > So If he is decentant of the horse nomads, as some claim, THAT date would
> > be too late for the invasion.
>
> Read David Day's book. I am not arguing the time and place of the truth of
> the mythology. It is mutually agreed by scholars that Arther is a composit
> of many heros of the day, even Irish ones.
David Day.... I'll track it down when I get back to the University.
> > & I Think you are mixing up all the horsenomad groups... Huns, Mongols,
> > Sycthians, Sarmatains...
>
> No I'm not. Scythians and Sarmatians are ethnic cousins as well as the
> Cimmerians. All groups settled in Western Europe. The Sarmatians later under
> the Pax Romana.
Eastern Europe.
Hungary, Poland, Russia.....
That is as far West as they got AS A PEOPLE.
(not counting the stray Roman Auxilary unit)
Look at the Maps the Romans drew.... Sarmatia's western boundary is
Germania. (Germans)
That is also where the terrain shifts from grassland & steppe into deep,
thick forest, or mountains inhabited by the Germans. - lousy grazing land
inhabited by cranky natives. (the Basternae)
It was wave after wave of horse nomads rolling in over hundereds of years,
each new one displacing the last.
The Scythians were pushed out of the plains above the black sea by some
Saramatian tribes, then more waves of them rolled in (like the later Alan
tribes) Then the Visigoths, then the Huns.... ect.
Big tribes of horsenomads wandering in & trying to edge others out of
prime grazing & trading areas.
> > Any road... the Sarmatains did NOt penetrate very far. Mainly into eastern
> > Europe.. in the steppes north of the black sea (around Kiev in Russia)
>
> You are mixing up the Alans with the Sarmatians. The Sarmatians were Roman
The Alans seem to be considered a late period Sarmatian tribe.
The tale end of the migration waves.
1st & 2nd Century AD they wander in.
Iazyges (who coughed up troups to Rome) & the Roxolani were in the first
waves of the Sarmatian tribes.
Read:
The Sarmatians by T. Sulimirski
or
Studies on The History Of the Sarmatians by John Harmatta (Budapest 1950)
> Cavalry who occupied places such as North Umbria.
The Sarmatians were force to provide 8000 men to Rome as part of a peace
treaty, to be used where ROME willed.
Specificly it was the Iazyges tribe that lost & was forced into the peace
treaty.
This is a tiny segment of the Sarmatains as a whole.
> The Alans made deep
> strides into Western Europe in their day.
Only if you Consider Poland & Hungary deep in Western Europe.
Show me the historian that writes of Sarmatians controlling Germania or
Gaul. - You will not find it.
Granted, there were a few military units the Romans shuffled around from
post to post. However, Rome always used auxilaries like that.
They sent Germans down into Egypt.
That hardly means Germans controlled Egypt - Rome did, using auxillaries
backed by regular legions.
> > Poland, Hungary, Romania/Bulgaria...
> > mainly up the Danube river valley.
> > There they butted heads with Dacians, Romans & Germans.
> > & stalled out.
> The Sarmatians were conquered by the Romans completely. The Dacians were
Nope. In correct.
Some tribes of them were, some were not.
The conquered ones didn't stay conquered.
Many an armed conflict broke out over the Danube.
Some tribes worked as Roman Mercs (auxilarys) in one war, only to fight
against the Romans in a later war.
It was the most unstable of boarders.
It wasn't untill the incoming Huns bumped the Visigoths into the Ostagoths
into the Sarmatians (who were by this time wedged by migration
pressures into the far western edge of the grazing lands & up the Danube
valley) They folded.
Pushed right out of the grazing lands, to disperse as best they could.
472, Iazyges beaten by Visigoths.
Or as the Historian Harmatta writes:
"The Sarmatians, left behind in Hungary, were scattered during the great
turmoil cause by the appearence of the Huns." pg 63.
> also conquered by the Romans. Many Germans were also eventually
> conquered by the Romans.
A few tribes.
& after that, Rome decided to build forts & arm along the Danube & the
Rhine and go no futher.
Rome really just nibbled the edges of Germania & used some Germans as
Emperor's guards & auxilaries. & was constantly fighting the hostile
ones.
> > In fact, one of the Roman generals Marcus Aurelius Sarmaticus... thus
> > named because of hard he pounded the Sarmatians in 169AD & forced a peace
> > treaty on them in 175AD.
> > His terms were harsh:
>
> There was a limited peace treaty and then Roman completely occupied and
> changed Sarmatian cuture and land.
Proof.
Type the relevant info from your referance.
None of my historians mention such a change in all the Sarmatain tribes.
> > SO, true to form, 5500 Saramtian calvary wound up stationed along
> > Hadrian's wall, in brittian, to try to keep THOSE rebellious navites in
> > line.
>
> They did not just wound up there. They were sent there by Rome. They were
That IS what I meant when I typed that.
A few units of auxillaries were posted along the wall.
> sent there because they were the fastest and deadliest troops Rome had at
More like it was far enough away they couldn't cause trouble back at home.
Rome was notorious for sending auxilarys to postings far away from thier
native lands, in the nastiest, hairyest conflicts.
Cannon fodder.
Better to loose the auxilaries of trouble makers than explain to Roman
matrons what had happened to thier husbands.
Now granted, they were good horse archers.
However, they were stuck manning a wall. Hadrian's wall.
Maybe a fort.
Seems a waste of hotshot calavary, to post them in such a belligerent,
unimportant frontier.
> the time. The Palladins of Rome were shock troops and highly effective
> against foot raiders from the north.
Palladins of Rome?
Sounds very Knights Templar-ish.
I keep seeing 15th century plate jousters instead of scale mailed horse
archers :P
> > So Ren, THAT is why Saramatian's were in Brittian.
> > Not because the horse nomad's conquests got them that far.
>
> Did I say that? No.
Ok then.
You seemed to be implying it.
> > Oh no.
> > But because One of thier tribes lost badly to rome & had to supply
> > cannonfodder for the legions to use.
>
> You got it all wrong. Sarmatian Cavalry the Pallidani enjoyed full Roman
> citizenship and could settle the land they were stationed at. They weren't
PSSTT... Ren, that was standard operating procedure for auxillaries.
You did your service in the military & after a certain number of years,
you could retire with citizenship & a plot of land.
Go AWOL, they kill ya.
> cannonfodder. They were the most well equipped forces in Western Europe at
> the time and they were feared.
Then why do you have to search long & hard to find much referance to them?
It is the Legions of Rome that were feared, - Rome's might, not just a
handfull of her auxillaries.
> > The cannon foder wound up in Brittian.
> >
> > > Lords from the East and took over the religion and the government of our
> >
> > Nope.
> > Never got that far west. (as conquerors)
> Wrong. Cite your evidence.
Two historians that have written books on Sarmatian history never mention
them further west, as a people, than Poland, Hungary, Romania.
Once again, The books are:
Studies on the History of The Sarmatians by John Harma, Budapest 1950
The Sarmatains by T. Sulimirski
Now, cite your evidence they got further than that.
As a people, not just a military unit stationed as a Roman pawn on some
lonely frontier or another.
> To the contrary there is evidence that the Alans
> influenced and shaped Politics and Religion in Europe which would later be
> defined as Western European Politics and Religion.
Type the evidence...
A nice paragraph or two out of the history book you are using, along with
the citation so I can dig it up in the Graduate Library.
> > Eastern europe... you'd have a better case.
>
> They were less influential there. Your Huns, Mongols, and Magyars were
> superior riders and archers and completely dominated that theatre.
Later time period.
The Huns riding in scatters the Sarmatians.
> > & your dates are all off too. 5th century is way to late for Sarmatains.
> http://www.angelcynn.org.uk/
> Look at the helmuts of this history reconstruction page and you tell me
> which would most likely have been worn by the Romano-Britons.
I don't have web graphic ability - this will take a bit.
> > 400 - 200 BC Saramatians show up in the steppes north of the black sea &
> > become a royal pain to the Scythians.
>
> The Scythians and Sarmatians are close ethnic cousins and their greatness
> occurs at different times in history.
Yep.
Because the Sarmatians take over the Scythains, shove them off the
grasslands or intermarry with them.
> > 175 AD for that peace treaty which sent Sarmatain troups to Brittian,
> > under Rome's banner.
>
> Are you just going to throw this shit on the floor without making any sense
> out of it? What are you trying to fortell?
I'm just throwing relevant data tidbits at you, to make a point.
> > 69AD for Sarmatains (Roxolani) invading Dacia.
>
> You cut and pasted from a webpage and forgot that you were supposed to
> comment about it in your own words.
Heh.
Considering I don't even have netscape or a web browser...
Considering I come from two generations of Librarians.
Considering my old Germanic Mythology professor would have flunked anyone
using a webpage as a source.....
Not likely.
I use books. Webpages are extremely unreliable scholastic sources.
> > Even the greeks, who were in close contact with them (having
duked it out
> > on the banks of the black sea with the scythians & later the Sarmatians)
>
> The Greeks and the Scythians have the same cultural background, that is, the
> Indo-Europeans.
Indians (India) & Vikings are Indo-europeans too...
but have different cultural backgrounds.
The Greeks & the Scythians were quite different culturaly.
They didn't even speak the same language.
Just read what the Greek historians has to say about the horse nomads they
considered barbarians.
> > ... even the greeks were fuzzy on the religion.
>
> The religion of the Sarmatian is known in the artifacts. Dragon symbols on
> grave sites and helmuts, insignia after the Roman fashion, the survival of
Cite the Kurgan mound burial were Dragons were found.
I have paged through books with the artifact pictures of such burials &
found nothing resembling Dragons.
I have seen the grave goods & found no dragons Ren.
Nor do the Greeks make mention of dragons in relation to Sarmatian
religion.
Nor did the Warrior Priestess or Priestess mound burials contain dragons,
although they found altrars & other ritual objects.
Can you cite an archeological dig, an article in an archeological or
history journal or magazine or book that supports your claim?
I'll take a peek at some of the web sites you mention, but, webpages can
be fanatasy trash, or scholastic gold.
> religious practices such as Communion, drinking the blood and eating the
> body of Christ are all originally Sarmatian religious practices. The Celtic
Ah.
You are not claiming Persian Zoroastrianism is Sarmatian are you?
... Granted Sarmatians were Iranian speaking tribes, but they were
distinct from Persians (warred with them).
That probably is where the Christains picked up the facination with
dualisim. (good vs. evil, light vs. dark..)
As for the communion, sacrifice of a god... you could argue it had links
to the Mithra cults as well, which were very popular with the Roman
Legions.
It's cheaper to grab wine & wafers than sacrifce a bull over top of
yourself though.
> practice of placing a sword as a stelae for the dead with a wreath of
> flowers is a Sarmatian religious practice.
That is probably one of the few things we agree on.. the greeks mention a
sword connected to worship of a war diety, which was driven into the
ground.
> > Why do dragons NOT appear in ANY of the countless artifacts from
> > Sarmatian burials?
>
> Listen, were are you getting your facts? Dragons permiate Sarmatian burials.
All the pictures of Kurgan grave goods I have seen...
Any good university will have these books, sometimes they are in the art
history sections though.
Where are you getting yours?
> > Dragons are not in the iconography.
> > LOTS of eagles, big cats seizing prey, stags, Griffons even.
> > But no dragons.
>
> Wrong. Those are uniquely Roman Totems.
Then why do they show up in the grave goods?
On the Warrior's Jewlery? The Clothing Plauqes? On saddle Cloths?
Talismans carved in bone or antler or boar tusk?
Stags, eagles, big cats, griffons... but no dragons.
(Note that different cultures can have the same animals as totem animals..
although the totems may vary widely in interpetation)
& you have not even mentioned the Tamgas marks.
> The dragon was the unique totem of
> the Calvary of Hadian's Wall, Sarmatian Shock Cavalry.
Proof.
Cite your source.
I can't verify what you say if you don't cite the information so I can
check it & its sources.
> > That shoots your totem theory down.
>
> Hardly.
web pages.
-sigh-
Can you even find a archeology journal or a history book in a library Ren?
> http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/2/ha2tf.htm
> http://www.securenet.net/members/swatkins/redragon.htm
> http://www.net.hu/hungq/no144/p113.html
Hm. none of these look like a university site.
I'll look.
I'll look up those bibliographies. & I'll raid the graduate library &
check your sources sources.
It will take a bit, I'll be armed & typing september.
> You follow the links and bibliography of these links and you'll see
> archeological proof that the Sarmatians-Sythians-Alans were all Dragon Totem
We shall see.
Or I'll find you can't tell a good source from a bad one.
> peoples. The Sumerians had dragon gods and are the ancestors of the same
> people. Do you know the names of those dragon gods?
Sumer isn't Sarmatian.
Just cause one cultre has a dragon diety, doesn't mean others do, or even
that cultures nearby do.
Sumer isn't one of my cultures of interest, so I don;t have documenation
on its mythology & culture.
The epic of Gilgamesh & the descent of Innana is as close as I get.
> > > fabled that these Lords came from Sumeria and before that.
> >
> > Try Central Asian horse nomads.
> > The languages they spoke are related to Iranian
>
> Yes. The Sarmatians-Scythians-and Alans all have an Iranian connection.
> Sumerians are the ancestors of the Iranians and the Iraqis.
Iranian type launguage speaking horse nomads - related languages indiacted
related peoples/tribes.
Sumarians?
Ify.
Where do you get that from? What evidence supports it?
Are you saying the aryans (Indo european horse nomads) learned chariot
warfare from the sumarians (2000BC)?
& using this as evidence they were once Sumarians?
Scythains & Sarmatians & the like didn't use chariot warfare. The Celts
did though.
That aside, that is a debateable theory, they could have developed it
themselves, or in Anatolia, rather than Mesopotamia.
> > & terrible cravings for crispy fried Knights with bacon on top.
> > As for the rest... -heh-
> > Everyone has to have a hobby.
> >
> > 'sides. EVERYONE knows Coyote's weakness.
> > -evil grin-
>
> Pussy? :P
See, I told you everyone knew.
Jag
Noinden
> >On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, ren wrote:
> > You cast the spell, Jaguar and I shall respond. Are you ready to look upon
> > the eyes of the dragon?
>
> On VHS or DVD?
>
> What type of spell do you sugest Ren?
>
> I'll wait while you look it up in the RolePlayer's guide.
>
underage boy" Monroes "21 lesons of Merlyn" .. "such a well researched
and well thought of piece of publication". Oh and the "phonetics of
his "welsh" are oh so accurate as to make a Bard come over all queer"
*sarcasim to off*
Bwhaaa
Because thats the only place you will find that sort of stuff!
Oh and some one should tel ren STAVES DO NOT HAVE HILTS.....
hybiscus
> retard? Which is it bucko?
What, you suddenly are able to spell, because of your new spell checker,
and you think you are all that and then some?
Na, I was using a powerful spell, where one leaves out letters and
threads, and you are now it.
Noinden
> > Oh and as for the "you are retard"? Is that I am retarded? I am a
> > retard? Which is it bucko?
>
> What, you suddenly are able to spell, because of your new spell checker,
> and you think you are all that and then some?
No I think that you are under a lot of pressure for some reason or
another and are lashing out! Well tough luck "Sandy"! I don't care who
is dying; who has dumped you or what blood vessel you opened this time
in a cry for help! I do not care, as you are not worthy of being cared
for! You also think you know OH so much about me little girl! I
suggest you check with some of the sources! Because you know only old
news! Stuff that has no effect on me!
> Na, I was using a powerful spell, where one leaves out letters and
> Threads, and you are now it.
Sure thing "Sandy". Translation (Hybiscus to English): "I screwed up
and am embarrassed about it. My life is a wreak and has no hope in it.
So I will lash out at those who I think will not lash back"
Coward
Run along little girl. Your master is rubbing off on you pinkie! Next
you will be claiming membership to groups you made up!
hybiscus
hybiscus
from you. You did send more then one, and I do have copies of them. I
Found them while deleting old jpegs I no longer needed. And I haven't
even finished going through my old pics yet. Wonder how many other ones
will turn up?
Date:
Tue, 7 Mar 2000
From:
gar...@alkali.otago.ac.nz
Name:
gdt3.jpg
Cardinal Fang
>Oh Noinden. Eww. Look what I unexpectedly found, at least 2 pictures
>from you. You did send more then one, and I do have copies of them. I
>Found them while deleting old jpegs I no longer needed. And I haven't
>even finished going through my old pics yet. Wonder how many other ones
>will turn up?
This sounds suspiciously like an attempt blackmail. Last time someone tried to do that to me....well, the results were
not pretty.
hybiscus
>
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:12:35 -0700, hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Oh Noinden. Eww. Look what I unexpectedly found, at least 2 pictures
> >from you. You did send more then one, and I do have copies of them. I
> >Found them while deleting old jpegs I no longer needed. And I haven't
> >even finished going through my old pics yet. Wonder how many other ones
> >will turn up?
>
> This sounds suspiciously like an attempt blackmail. Last time someone tried to do that to me....well, the results were
> not pretty.
I am not blackmailing him. Just letting him sweat it out, because he
enjoys blackmailing others so much.
Cardinal Fang
Perhaps you could list a few examples of Gareth's blackmailing attempts?
hybiscus
>
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:15:55 -0700, hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Cardinal Fang wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:12:35 -0700, hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Oh Noinden. Eww. Look what I unexpectedly found, at least 2 pictures
> >> >from you. You did send more then one, and I do have copies of them. I
> >> >Found them while deleting old jpegs I no longer needed. And I haven't
> >> >even finished going through my old pics yet. Wonder how many other ones
> >> >will turn up?
> >>
> >> This sounds suspiciously like an attempt blackmail. Last time someone tried to do that to me....well, the results were
> >> not pretty.
> >
> >I am not blackmailing him. Just letting him sweat it out, because he
> >enjoys blackmailing others so much.
>
> Perhaps you could list a few examples of Gareth's blackmailing attempts?
Gareth knows what he does. If he wants to carry on like dink, then
perhaps he should be reminded of what a dink looks like, specifically
his own dink.
Is it really so bad? If he is the pagan that he says he is, he should
not mind. After all, he shows sexually provocative pictures of himself
and other women to people who do not want to see these pictures. He
figures a pagan should live their life a certain way, and he forces
pagans to be more open with their sexuality. But it has to be on his
grounds, his way or no way.
Is showing pictures of past lovers to strangers a decision for him to
make? He says the x-lovers do not mind him giving out their pictures,
yet I know of at least one person who does mind.
He wants people to act a certain way, and he does not budge. What gives
him the right to push people to act in ways that they do not want to
act, or ways that they should not act, ways contrary to their beliefs?
Gareth is a bully to women. He bullies and cheats women into giving him
sexual favors.
So why would my actions be any different? Come up with a good reason if
you will, otherwise, I don't really care to discuss this any more.
My contention is not with you, Fang. I believe that both Pagan and non
Pagan Women or Men should be able to decide for themselves what they
should do with their bodies in both the spiritual and mundane world.
The Olphardt
> So why would my actions be any different? Come up with a good reason if
> you will, otherwise, I don't really care to discuss this any more.
>
Your actions should be different because you are a better person than most
if not all of those with whom you dispute. This does not mean that you
should not fight for yourself, nor that you should not use anger in such
fights. It does not mean that it is inappropriate for you to "try out" the
tactics others have used against you to see how they feel to you, but in the
end, you cannot justify your actions on the basis of the fact that someone
else has found them appropriate for themselves and used them against you;
you must discover and embrace those ways of relating which are an expression
of who you are; otherwise you will end up changing your identity; and it is
unlikely that a change to be more like anyone you have fought with here will
be an improvement.
Joe
hybiscus
And this is to me, what I consider a good reason, and infact my own
reason for not posting the picture. If I was cruel, I would have posted
the picture as soon as I had found it. The fact that I did not post the
picture, does not mean that I was trying to blackmail him, as Fang
suggests.
Gareth shows little respect to people here. Gareth does not treat me
with respect even when I give him respect. He feels that I am weak for
trying to make any peace with him. Gareth is a person who does not
realize when he has gone to far, even when told point blank that I have
had enough of him and what he is doing to me.
Although, we are past the point of deserving any respect from each
other, I would like him to see a value in that fact that I am a
different person then he is. I would like him to understand that it is
not weak to back down even when you know that you could say something
mean, or do something dirty to hurt someone else. Oh these are such very
easily but very disturbing accomplishments.
Putting people in a tight spot, when you know that you have the goods on
people, watching them grovel, or making them fight for their own justice
or safety is extremely cruel when there is no real cause.
Gareth pointed out in the last post to me that I had nothing on him. And
he said some pretty mean and mostly untrue comments in his post to me.
He put himself in a position where he felt he had the advantage over me
so that he could say these cruel things and that they would justified in
his mind. A sort of one-upmanship.
Why now, would that picture of his penis among other pictures, make
themselves known to me? On a corrupted part of my computer that I have
not used for 2 years, and have lost most of my data on.
Finding that picture of him, I felt my stomach drop and twist. But it
made the difference, because I realized that I had been holding in me
this feeling for him that was deleterious to my psyche.
I did NOT come to the ng with a great glee that I had found something to
make me have control over him. I came here to report this fact, because
I did not want this picture of him. Yet, here it was on my computer.
What a sickening thing for me.
The first copy had crashed that he had given me, so he sent me another.
And there it was, in my control. This sickening person hovering over a
camera, with this twisted smile of a lurker, knowing full well what he
is doing. Someone who I had told to leave me a lone many times.
Someone who dared to try to tell me to not talk about things that I do
know about because he does not agree with me. Someone who made his own
promises and broke them, and then decided to call me the oath breaker
for continuing what he had asked me to do, when if he realized what he
had done, he would know that I was following his instructions.
So he had a personal vendetta against me, and threatened to blackmail me
with information he believed that he had that would harm me. I saw him
chase a few people away from arw, because they cared for another person,
more then they cared about his power tactics. They are good friends of
mine. Good people. And they talked about magick, and they did not fall
prey to petty arguments.
And who do we have remaining? Gareth. The one who believes that people
must follow his standards of protocol for posting on the internet and
living their lives as a Pagan under his own rules. The one who calls
everyone child, son, lad in the most derogatory manner, and looks down
on almost everyone citizen of arw. Gareth, who rarely talks about
magick/magic. And rarely contributes anything except a fight. But he
does not even fight with good sportsmanship. It is him who is allowed to
fight, and everyone else must bow down infront of King Gareth.
Gareth sickens me. And it would not displease me to see his picture
posted when ever he becomes this self righteous sicko. But I have as
yet, not posted it. I continue to hope that he will see the value of
others here. Contribute where he can. Write some good stuff on magick
and not follow people around with "Prove it, you liar". Or get off this
ng.
I am no better then the rest of the people here, no worse. I am equal in
my own way. I have done some tasks that I am happy with, and have
contributed some other deeds which I am not proud of. I have tried to
change, and grow into something worthy of the gifts given to me.
I just hope that Gareth, can see his errors and not feel ashamed of
them, but understand when he is hurting others for a cause that is
insignificant. And be able to back down and find compassion in his heart
for another human being.
hybiscus
>
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:15:55 -0700, hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Cardinal Fang wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:12:35 -0700, hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Oh Noinden. Eww. Look what I unexpectedly found, at least 2 pictures
> >> >from you. You did send more then one, and I do have copies of them. I
> >> >Found them while deleting old jpegs I no longer needed. And I haven't
> >> >even finished going through my old pics yet. Wonder how many other ones
> >> >will turn up?
> >>
> >> This sounds suspiciously like an attempt blackmail. Last time someone tried to do that to me....well, the results were
> >> not pretty.
> >
> >I am not blackmailing him. Just letting him sweat it out, because he
> >enjoys blackmailing others so much.
>
> Perhaps you could list a few examples of Gareth's blackmailing attempts?
What about his attempts at telling Aine and others (for instance me)
that if we did not shut up about topics unrelated to him (except by
ego), that we would be hacked and pay the price. One attempt at
blackmail, out of many.
The Olphardt
Well said. There is a strength in gentle restraint, which only those who are
themselves weak mistake for weakness.
Joe
Cardinal Fang
>
>hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:3B75F692...@home.com...
>> I just hope that Gareth, can see his errors and not feel ashamed of
>> them, but understand when he is hurting others for a cause that is
>> insignificant. And be able to back down and find compassion in his heart
>> for another human being.
>
>Well said. There is a strength in gentle restraint, which only those who are
>themselves weak mistake for weakness.
I was being prodding as I felt the accused should be allowed to know the charges against him.
And perhaps explain his view of the events as they unfolded, instead of just hearing one side of the story.
I don't feel Gareth is anymore opinionated than anyone else on this newsgroup,
though he can be quite the abrasive debater. I don't know if he realizes this or not.
hybiscus
>
> On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 04:04:11 GMT, "The Olphardt" <jske...@apex.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
> >news:3B75F692...@home.com...
>
> >> I just hope that Gareth, can see his errors and not feel ashamed of
> >> them, but understand when he is hurting others for a cause that is
> >> insignificant. And be able to back down and find compassion in his heart
> >> for another human being.
> >
> >Well said. There is a strength in gentle restraint, which only those who are
> >themselves weak mistake for weakness.
>
> I was being prodding as I felt the accused should be allowed to know the charges against him.
> And perhaps explain his view of the events as they unfolded, instead of just hearing one side of the story.
You were being a good friend, Fang. Or at least a courteous bee. I
wasn't trying to bring up any charges against him.
> I don't feel Gareth is anymore opinionated than anyone else on this newsgroup,
> though he can be quite the abrasive debater. I don't know if he realizes this or not.
*nod*
Cardinal Fang
>Cardinal Fang wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:15:55 -0700, hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote:
>> >I am not blackmailing him.
Sure sounded like a blackmail attempt.
>Just letting him sweat it out, because he
>> >enjoys blackmailing others so much.
>>
>> Perhaps you could list a few examples of Gareth's blackmailing attempts?
>
>What about his attempts at telling Aine and others (for instance me)
>that if we did not shut up about topics unrelated to him (except by
>ego), that we would be hacked and pay the price. One attempt at
>blackmail, out of many.
And what were you and Aine doing to provoke this?
Talking with Gareth, I've gotten the impression that he doesn't like people who he sees as charlatans......... people
who claim all sorts of things about what the Druids did, or who the Druids were, but do so in a most unscholarly
manner.
I don't agree with Gareth on a lot of things. Though I don't see the point of verbally disagreeing with him on things I
feel fall into the realm of the subjective.
Its just that blackmailing is an action that royally pisses me off, as I've had someone threaten me in the same way.
BirdTribe
hybiscus wrote:
> Oh Noinden. Eww. Look what I unexpectedly found, at least 2 pictures
> from you. You did send more then one, and I do have copies of them. I
> Found them while deleting old jpegs I no longer needed. And I haven't
> even finished going through my old pics yet. Wonder how many other ones
> will turn up?
Are these the infamous dick jpegs of Gareths? I mean..you did go eww.
Birdie
>
>
> Date:
> Tue, 7 Mar 2000
> From:
> gar...@alkali.otago.ac.nz
> Name:
> gdt3.jpg
--
"Clowns are attracted to any number of absurd realities"
visit http://www.birdtribe.net for games, animations, keys
Rhyanon
portrait?
"hybiscus" <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B75C79C...@home.com...
hybiscus
>
> Have you already forgotten what happened after you posted ren's little self
> portrait?
No, I got my account yanked with in moments. That's what yahoo accounts
are for.
hybiscus
> Are these the infamous dick jpegs of Gareths? I mean..you did go eww.
>
> Birdie
Ya, one of those involuntary responses.. I went to the movies the other
day, and one scene made me stand up and shout "Eww Gross" really loud
and my hands went over my head in shock.. That's never happened to me
before. Funny, and embarrassing all in one. :)
Do you realize that the movies right now are sequels.. Planet of the
Apes 4. American Pie 2, Rush Hour 2, Dr. Doolittle 2, Jurassic Park 3...
hybiscus
>
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:25:31 -0700, hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Cardinal Fang wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:15:55 -0700, hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >> >I am not blackmailing him.
>
> Sure sounded like a blackmail attempt.
I don't have anything to blackmail him for. If you are going to
blackmail someone, you have to have some sort of reason.
> Talking with Gareth, I've gotten the impression that he doesn't like people who he sees as charlatans......... people
> who claim all sorts of things about what the Druids did, or who the Druids were, but do so in a most unscholarly
> manner.
ok, that's fair enough.
> I don't agree with Gareth on a lot of things. Though I don't see the point of verbally disagreeing with him on things I
> feel fall into the realm of the subjective.
It's not the fact that he disagrees with you, it is the fact that you
are not allowed to write about a subject that he disagrees with, even
though you are discussing things with other people. That's what pisses
me off.
> Its just that blackmailing is an action that royally pisses me off, as I've had someone threaten me in the same way.
I agree, I am sick of people blackmailing others here. And I don't want
to be in the position to blackmail others.
It just got to the point where so many people wanted to control things.
I feel that things are better now. I don't feel that I have these people
around me that try to control me so much.
I woke up with sympathy for Gareth. I don't want to hurt him. I am sorry
that I posted that I had his picture. I sort of wish that we could have
a decent conversation between him and I, so that we could have worked
out any differences. Gareth can frustrate me faster then most people on
this group, but Gareth does have some good stuff to share, and I
acknowledge that. He does have the ability to have deeply visual
scenarios to share. If we had gotten along, and there was not such a
power struggle, I would have liked to work on this with him. It is not
every day that one gets the opportunity to work on something like this.
Alexandra Ceelie
Hash: SHA1
"hybiscus" <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B76B5D6...@home.com...
> Do you realize that the movies right now are sequels.. Planet of
> the Apes 4. American Pie 2, Rush Hour 2, Dr. Doolittle 2, Jurassic
> Park 3...
Planet of the Apes isn't. It has been "re-imagined" (I like that
word) :)
- --
=^..^=
The NetKitten
Alexandra Ceelie
http://talk.to/netkitten
PGP Key available on website
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Rhyanon
specific purpose of committing acts such as blackmail? Hm.....
"hybiscus" <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B76B379...@home.com...
ren
> word) :)
I re-imagined you would say that.
Noinden
Sorry Sandy it's not working! Do as you will! We both know the real
story! Plus lass I don't ever blackmail any one!
So much for your "honor" and "computer crashes"
hybiscus
And what sort of advantage do I have by having your picture now, that
would benefit me more then before? Use your cognitive thinking skills,
Gareth. This picture, recently fell into my hands for a reason.
Try and act the cool tough guy. All you have left is an act and a limp
penis.
hybiscus
> Do as you will!
I will, you have consumed too much of my time. You are a demon now dealt
with.
hybiscus
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "hybiscus" <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3B76B5D6...@home.com...
> > Do you realize that the movies right now are sequels.. Planet of
> > the Apes 4. American Pie 2, Rush Hour 2, Dr. Doolittle 2, Jurassic
> > Park 3...
>
> Planet of the Apes isn't. It has been "re-imagined" (I like that
> word) :)
:P it is a sequel. Re-imagined might be fine if the first ones sucked..
as it is, the first ones inspired me greatly and shocked me. Planet of
the Apes is something that I would not want to reimagined. Rather, I
would prefer that the messages remain worthy of remembering and
propagating for generations to come.
BirdTribe
braggart with nothing to brag about. I say put his dick
on a tripod webpage and spam the URL.. Asswipes like you
and the cardinal can take gadzillions of uncalled for
potshots, rarely presenting any kind of worthy debate or
counter argument but you cry like hypocritical little goons
when the tables get turned. Fangs eco arguments were some
of the lamest attempts I have ever come across to discredit
activists and noindens obsession with the
renster is getting close to vomit level.
BirdTribe
Noinden wrote:
--
Rhyanon
"BirdTribe" <bird...@birdtribe.net> wrote in message
news:3B77C2BE...@birdtribe.net...
Rhyanon
"ren" <r...@bookofshadows.org> wrote in message
news:28zd7.7531$vW2.3...@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com...
Noinden
Noinden
> > So much for your "honor" and "computer crashes"
>
> And what sort of advantage do I have by having your picture now, that
> would benefit me more then before? Use your cognitive thinking skills,
> Gareth. This picture, recently fell into my hands for a reason.
You should take your own advice little one! OH and cognitive is
thinking girl.
You seem to think I will feel threatened? Sorry it does not work that
way! Like I said. Do, as you will. For you have no power over me!
You are just hurt because I did not let you walk all over me! You
attack then get all huffy that I will not let "old wounds" lie! TOUGH.
Act in a manner befitting consideration and you will get it. Act as a
complete and utter untrustworthy back stabbing mink ... and be treated
accordingly!
I'm off to the gym now child try to get out from your sterile little
computer world! Those "demons" that haunt you come straight from
there!
As for "fell into" we BOTH know the truth!
Alexandra Ceelie
Hash: SHA1
"hybiscus" <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B778303...@home.com...
> :P it is a sequel. Re-imagined might be fine if the first ones
> sucked.. as it is, the first ones inspired me greatly and shocked
> me. Planet of the Apes is something that I would not want to
> reimagined. Rather, I would prefer that the messages remain worthy
> of remembering and
> propagating for generations to come.
Your preference, of course, is your preference, but that doesn't make
the movie something it is not...
Sequel means "in sequence". As Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes is a
total reworking of the story, and not a continuation of it, it can't
(by definition) be a sequel. Sorry.
Example: "Ever After" is not a sequel of Disney's "Cinderella"...
even though they are basically telling the same story and one came
after the other. Both movies are merely a different view of "The
Little Cinder Girl" as told by the Brothers' Grimm, who probably got
it from somewhere else...themselves.
Burton did the same thing -- with amazing results. While I loved the
first movies, I was enraptured by the fresh view. But then, I'm a
fan. I've rarely been disappointed by anything he has produced.
I don know that if you go expecting and wanting to see a remake of
the first movie, you *will* be disappointed. It's not the same.
- --
=^..^=
The NetKitten
Alexandra Ceelie
http://talk.to/netkitten
PGP Key available on website
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hybiscus
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "hybiscus" <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3B778303...@home.com...
> > :P it is a sequel. Re-imagined might be fine if the first ones
> > sucked.. as it is, the first ones inspired me greatly and shocked
> > me. Planet of the Apes is something that I would not want to
> > reimagined. Rather, I would prefer that the messages remain worthy
> > of remembering and
> > propagating for generations to come.
>
> Your preference, of course, is your preference, but that doesn't make
> the movie something it is not...
To justify why I have used the word sequel I give you its alternative
meanings.
Sequel also means "in continuation of" or "as a result of". Tim Burtons
movie is definitely "in result of the" original Planet of the Apes
movies.. therefore both your term and my term fit nicely. The ending of
the new movie also allows it to be a sequel in terms of "in
continuation" of the other 3 movies if you can consider it an
alternative event line.. etc.
> Sequel means "in sequence". As Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes is a
> total reworking of the story, and not a continuation of it, it can't
> (by definition) be a sequel. Sorry.
see above please.
> Example: "Ever After" is not a sequel of Disney's "Cinderella"...
> even though they are basically telling the same story and one came
> after the other. Both movies are merely a different view of "The
> Little Cinder Girl" as told by the Brothers' Grimm, who probably got
> it from somewhere else...themselves.
Yes, I understand how your term would work. And your term does work well
in the instance that you are using it for. I just didn't like the term.
It has nothing to do with you at all.. I used to not like the word
"very" either. I preferred alternative words. I am just like that. I
have have a like/dislike as to how certain words sound or look or are
written or even how they might be mouthed.
> Burton did the same thing -- with amazing results. While I loved the
> first movies, I was enraptured by the fresh view. But then, I'm a
> fan. I've rarely been disappointed by anything he has produced.
:)
> I don know that if you go expecting and wanting to see a remake of
> the first movie, you *will* be disappointed. It's not the same.
I didn't want to se a remake.. so I was happy with the new movie..
hybiscus
> OH and cognitive is thinking girl.
Yes, but thinking is not necessarily cognitive. Your posts prove that
point, as they rarely make any sense.
The rest of your post is horse shit, and further demonstrates your lack
of cognitive skills.
hybiscus
> and noindens obsession with the
> renster is getting close to vomit level.
Which is usually why I am on noinden's case. Makes me as obsessive with
responding to their debauchery as they are. Seems to me a pretty poor
reason to fill the ng with garbage just because noinden is on the rag.
ren's a big boy and can deal with himself, and noinden is not worth
reading. So I should have no problem with ignoring their arguments.
Rhyanon
Noinden
> Noinden wrote:
>
> > OH and cognitive is thinking girl.
>
> Yes, but thinking is not necessarily cognitive. Your posts prove that point, as they rarely make any sense.
"Pot kettle black" "Sandy" (sure it is ... *snigger*)
It's not MY fault "Hy" that you could never wrap your brain around
higher ideas than what you usually try. Nor is it my fault that your
"touch" never actually affects a single person. We were all too polite
to tell you it did nothing. THEN you lost your manners and accused
several of us of things (Me, Lilly, Randy and even Aine and Tegan)
that we did not do OR stuck your nose in something that was not even
remotely concerning you!
Most defiantly not our fault you have become a tool of others either!
Just as we have once every few months "Hybiscus settling her demons
with Noinden Week" followed by you skulking in pointless threads. Soon
followed by you attacking one of us (most often me, as you know I'll
not really cut loose on you out of some misguided sense of honour),
and turning perfectly coherent threads into fluffy bunny fests!
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THINE OWN ACTIONS! That girl is the lesson of
Paganism. No "personal saviours" no "the nasty old evil/demon/evil
made me do it". Then again you never seemed to be able to cope with
that idea! Always it is some other influence that makes you act so
"confused", never your lack of discipline or trustworthiness!
You say you are over your demons with me?? PROVE IT. Do not reply, let
Ren actually "stand up for him self" and not try to save your
"master". Otherwise as usual it is all just a typical "Hy" soap of
tears and temper tantrums from you!
Noinden
SNIP
>.... and noinden is not worth
> reading. So I should have no problem with ignoring their arguments.
So you are back behinde the kilfile eh "Hy" (*gwarf* sure it is.....)
Cardinal Fang
>You desere every bit of it Noinden. Yer a loudmouthed
>braggart with nothing to brag about.
Kettle. Pot. Black.
>Isay put his dick
>on a tripod webpage and spam the URL..
Interesting idea. Maybe I will ask Wintershard to put up a picture of a dick on the ARW Photo Page and call it
Birdtribe.....
>Asswipes like you
>and the cardinal can take gadzillions of uncalled for
>potshots
Gadzillions? How many black helicopters is that?
>rarely presenting any kind of worthy debate
Debate? You call that preening and swagger of yours debate?
You get bitchy when anyone dares disagree with you. Or deaf as a post.
>counter argument but you cry like hypocritical little goons
> when the tables get turned. Fangs eco arguments were some
>of the lamest attempts I have ever come across to discredit
>activists
I make a point that some activists have caused harm to the very things they were trying to save,
but noooo......Birdtribe considers that an attack on all activists. Your present behavior is more that of
Chive, than that of any halfway sane individual.
I think I will give you a new name......BirdChive.
It fits you well.
hybiscus
I am not responding to this post to fight.
> TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THINE OWN ACTIONS! That girl is the lesson of
> Paganism. No "personal saviours" no "the nasty old evil/demon/evil
> made me do it". Then again you never seemed to be able to cope with
> that idea! Always it is some other influence that makes you act so
> "confused", never your lack of discipline or trustworthiness!
It was not you specifically that pissed me off, it was your actions that
triggered a reaction in me for other reasons. Yes, you can be a dink..
but I was upset at myself for my reactions to your behaviours. The demon
of you, was my responses to you. Do you understand now? I may
externalize the internal as a way of discussing matters, but I
understand the difference between the two.
> You say you are over your demons with me?? PROVE IT. Do not reply, let
I replied to show you that I was over the "Noinden demon". Got it?
Noinden
SNIP
> >Asswipes like you
> >and the cardinal can take gadzillions of uncalled for
> >potshots
Randy likes his pot…..
> Gadzillions? How many black helicopters is that?
Same as the number of neurones his THC addiction has fried!
> >rarely presenting any kind of worthy debate
>
> Debate? You call that preening and swagger of yours debate?
> You get bitchy when anyone dares disagree with you. Or deaf as a post.
Standard "drool donkey" activity Cardinal! Start a fight you can not
win, bluster, blather, and threaten. THEN killfile the lot of them.
Typical Randy Blaine modus operandi
>
> >counter argument but you cry like hypocritical little goons
> > when the tables get turned. Fangs eco arguments were some
> >of the lamest attempts I have ever come across to discredit
> >activists
>
> I make a point that some activists have caused harm to the very things they were trying to save,
> but noooo......Birdtribe considers that an attack on all activists. Your present behaviour is more that of
> Chive, than that of any halfway sane individual.
You made a logical well-reasoned point. Thus it seemed an attack to Mr
Blaine and his fragile ego!
I agree! Just as some activists a few years back protested the North
Sea oil platforms (as possible pollution sources) by opening the
valves and releasing a large amount of oil! STUPID
doczhiva
Icke's books. If so, then you've described him well. Why would you seek
kinship with a non-human? In particular, non-humans that despise Human
Beings. The only way you can lose a war with a Dragon.... is to become like
one. As long as you remain one with your Soul, it's inevitable that sooner
or later you become the stronger entity. Hence I laugh that Gareth would
call Hy weak. Maybe self doubt can be induced in Hy. Anger too. But if Hy
remains True to herself, she will end up stronger than Gareth.
"hybiscus" <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B75F692...@home.com...
> The Olphardt wrote:
> >
> > hybiscus <hybi...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:3B75C79C...@home.com...
> >
> > > So why would my actions be any different? Come up with a good reason
if
> > > you will, otherwise, I don't really care to discuss this any more.
> > >
> >
> > Your actions should be different because you are a better person than
most
> > if not all of those with whom you dispute. This does not mean that you
> > should not fight for yourself, nor that you should not use anger in such
> > fights. It does not mean that it is inappropriate for you to "try out"
the
> > tactics others have used against you to see how they feel to you, but in
the
> > end, you cannot justify your actions on the basis of the fact that
someone
> > else has found them appropriate for themselves and used them against
you;
> > you must discover and embrace those ways of relating which are an
expression
> > of who you are; otherwise you will end up changing your identity; and it
is
> > unlikely that a change to be more like anyone you have fought with here
will
> > be an improvement.
> >
> > Joe
>
> And this is to me, what I consider a good reason, and infact my own
> reason for not posting the picture. If I was cruel, I would have posted
> the picture as soon as I had found it. The fact that I did not post the
> picture, does not mean that I was trying to blackmail him, as Fang
> suggests.
>
> Gareth shows little respect to people here. Gareth does not treat me
> with respect even when I give him respect. He feels that I am weak for
> trying to make any peace with him. Gareth is a person who does not
> realize when he has gone to far, even when told point blank that I have
> had enough of him and what he is doing to me.
>
> Although, we are past the point of deserving any respect from each
> other, I would like him to see a value in that fact that I am a
> different person then he is. I would like him to understand that it is
> not weak to back down even when you know that you could say something
> mean, or do something dirty to hurt someone else. Oh these are such very
> easily but very disturbing accomplishments.
>
> Putting people in a tight spot, when you know that you have the goods on
> people, watching them grovel, or making them fight for their own justice
> or safety is extremely cruel when there is no real cause.
>
> Gareth pointed out in the last post to me that I had nothing on him. And
> he said some pretty mean and mostly untrue comments in his post to me.
> He put himself in a position where he felt he had the advantage over me
> so that he could say these cruel things and that they would justified in
> his mind. A sort of one-upmanship.
>
> Why now, would that picture of his penis among other pictures, make
> themselves known to me? On a corrupted part of my computer that I have
> not used for 2 years, and have lost most of my data on.
>
> Finding that picture of him, I felt my stomach drop and twist. But it
> made the difference, because I realized that I had been holding in me
> this feeling for him that was deleterious to my psyche.
>
> I did NOT come to the ng with a great glee that I had found something to
> make me have control over him. I came here to report this fact, because
> I did not want this picture of him. Yet, here it was on my computer.
> What a sickening thing for me.
>
> The first copy had crashed that he had given me, so he sent me another.
> And there it was, in my control. This sickening person hovering over a
> camera, with this twisted smile of a lurker, knowing full well what he
> is doing. Someone who I had told to leave me a lone many times.
>
> Someone who dared to try to tell me to not talk about things that I do
> know about because he does not agree with me. Someone who made his own
> promises and broke them, and then decided to call me the oath breaker
> for continuing what he had asked me to do, when if he realized what he
> had done, he would know that I was following his instructions.
>
> So he had a personal vendetta against me, and threatened to blackmail me
> with information he believed that he had that would harm me. I saw him
> chase a few people away from arw, because they cared for another person,
> more then they cared about his power tactics. They are good friends of
> mine. Good people. And they talked about magick, and they did not fall
> prey to petty arguments.
>
> And who do we have remaining? Gareth. The one who believes that people
> must follow his standards of protocol for posting on the internet and
> living their lives as a Pagan under his own rules. The one who calls
> everyone child, son, lad in the most derogatory manner, and looks down
> on almost everyone citizen of arw. Gareth, who rarely talks about
> magick/magic. And rarely contributes anything except a fight. But he
> does not even fight with good sportsmanship. It is him who is allowed to
> fight, and everyone else must bow down infront of King Gareth.
>
> Gareth sickens me. And it would not displease me to see his picture
> posted when ever he becomes this self righteous sicko. But I have as
> yet, not posted it. I continue to hope that he will see the value of
> others here. Contribute where he can. Write some good stuff on magick
> and not follow people around with "Prove it, you liar". Or get off this
> ng.
>
> I am no better then the rest of the people here, no worse. I am equal in
> my own way. I have done some tasks that I am happy with, and have
> contributed some other deeds which I am not proud of. I have tried to
> change, and grow into something worthy of the gifts given to me.
>
> I just hope that Gareth, can see his errors and not feel ashamed of
> them, but understand when he is hurting others for a cause that is
> insignificant. And be able to back down and find compassion in his heart
> for another human being.
ren
people who he sees as charlatans......... people
> who claim all sorts of things about what the Druids did, or who the Druids
were, but do so in a most unscholarly
> manner.
Druidism was an oral tradition and it will never be reconstructed. Gareth is
fooling himself in thinking that any scholarly approach is accurate.
> I don't agree with Gareth on a lot of things. Though I don't see the point
of verbally disagreeing with him on things I
> feel fall into the realm of the subjective.
He's a fucking ass that bullies people on other newsgroup in addition to
this one. He makes as many online enemies as Rhyanon does.
> Its just that blackmailing is an action that royally pisses me off, as
I've had someone threaten me in the same way.
She never said she would publish those photos on alt.binaries.slack.
Hy is a true dragon. She is a very dangerous creature when provoked. But she
is sweet to those who play nice. She's a quick learner and has her own
powers that I have learned from her.
Together we have both become stronger.
ren
> Ren actually "stand up for him self" and not try to save your
> "master". Otherwise as usual it is all just a typical "Hy" soap of
> tears and temper tantrums from you!
Why don't you be brave like a man should be and address me yourself.
We did what we wanted and we fucked you up. Now live with it.
ren
ren
"Rhyanon" <rhy...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MWRd7.6759$Kl2.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Oooooo, someone's jealllloussssss .... [smirkles]
Shut up, little girl. We'll deal with you later.
ren
You call yourself a chemist. You should at least familiarize yourself with
your own journals. Studies of THC are very poplular right now. It doesn't
destroy brain cells.
By the way, if you're such a chemist, why can't you spell "neurones"?
ren
I'm bigger than Noinden, that's for sure. >:)
Jaguar
>On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, ren wrote:
> > Talking with Gareth, I've gotten the impression that he doesn't like
> people who he sees as charlatans......... people
> > who claim all sorts of things about what the Druids did, or who the Druids
> were, but do so in a most unscholarly
> > manner.
>
> Druidism was an oral tradition and it will never be reconstructed. Gareth is
> fooling himself in thinking that any scholarly approach is accurate.
While the record has many holes in regard to druidic practices & rites,
we DO have quite a large collection of Celtic myth that has survived.
& Archeology has turned up some very interesting finds indeed... like the
peat bog bodies.
Then too, we do have what the Greeks & Romans recorded about the Celts &
Celtic religous practice. Now admittedly, some of that may well be
propaganda....
In short, while there is not enough evidence to completely reconstruct
Celtic religous life, we DO have enough to have a rough idea.
A scholarly approach is quite possible.
Indeed, there are quite a number of universities that have Celtic studies
programs that focus on ancient Celts.
We certainly have more on Celtic religon than on Sarmatian.
Jag
(will commence library dig shortly)
hybiscus
> I'm bigger than Noinden, that's for sure. >:)
shhh... or Bob will kick you out. *hehe*
Rhyanon
"ren" <r...@bookofshadows.org> wrote in message
news:I1Vf7.36512$vW2.16...@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com...
Rhyanon
"ren" <r...@bookofshadows.org> wrote in message
news:17Vf7.36520$vW2.16...@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com...
Noinden
> > Same as the number of neurones his THC addiction has fried!
>
> your own journals. Studies of THC are very poplular right now. It doesn't
Why you are correct! However as both you and Randy readily LIE about
folks to try and put them down. I can make a slightly spurious
statement to get mine across! Randy implies things about fangs
sexuality all the time … yet actually knows NOTHING about it (as
neither do I).
BUT ok if you want the "truth" (insofar as this study shows as opposed
to a few others)
Hampson, Aidan J.; Axelrod, Julius; Grimaldi, Maurizio. (United
States Dept. of Health and Human Services, USA). HOLD patent on the
following
Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants.
Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated
to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes the
cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of a wide variety
of oxidn.-assocd. diseases, such as ischemic, age-related,
inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to
have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in
limiting neurol. damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and
trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as
Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia.
Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidiol, are particularly
advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered
with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of
the present invention. A particular disclosed class of cannabinoids
useful as neuroprotective antioxidants is I (R1, R2, R3 = H, CH3, and
COCH3). Cannabidiol protected neurons against reactive oxygen species
toxicity in a dose related manner, with an EC50 of about 6 _M.
WHAT you don't talk about is that most smokers of Cannabis inhale
LARGE amounts of tar and other carcinogens and other toxins (even when
they use a bong). THESE limit the effect THC has. This is the problem
with using "natural" products such as Cannabis you get a mixture.
Unlike what users will tell you ..that is dangerous!
Come one ren name the journal! ACS formats?
Because son if we get into a discussion of chemistry you are gonna get
blown out of the water!
But here we go buddy!
J. Neural Transm.: Gen. Sect. (1994), 95(2), 137-43.
Showed that catalepsy was induced in mice.
Marihuana Med., [Conf.] (1999), Meeting Date 1998, 649-664.
Publisher: Humana
Showed:
……"abnormal movements and hyperflexial syndrome"
Antiemetic efficacy of smoked marijuana. Subjective and behavioral
effects on nausea induced by syrup of ipecac. Soderpalm, A. H. V.;
Schuster, A.; de Wit, H. Department of Psychiatry, The University
of Chicago, Chicago, IL, USA. Pharmacol., Biochem. Behav.
(2001)
State:… its effects are very modest relative to ondansetron, and the
psychoactive effects of marijuana are likely to limit its clin.
usefulness in the general population.
Shall I continue ren? Seems I know a LOT more about this than you do!
I am PRO legalization, but also PRO regulation.
ÿ By the way, if you're such a chemist, why can't you spell
"neurones"?
It is the correct spelling. Especially using the UK dictionary!
OH and if you are going to spell flame:
"Studies of THC are very poplular right now. It doesn't destroy brain
cells."
Poplular? What word is that ren?
Noinden
> > Talking with Gareth, I've gotten the impression that he doesn't like
> people who he sees as charlatans......... people
> > who claim all sorts of things about what the Druids did, or who the Druids
> were, but do so in a most unscholarly
> > manner.
>
> Druidism was an oral tradition and it will never be reconstructed. Gareth is
> fooling himself in thinking that any scholarly approach is accurate.
I am? I think not! You show all these very very dubious references for
your "ideas". yet you attack mine that are based on well researched
fact! I use documented sources you do not. Debate ended!
Did I ever say accurate? It certainly is more so than anything you
have ever said ... Mr "monolith" (as was told to you by many others
myself included MEGALITH). Or have you forgotten how Jag ripped you a
new one recently? How your "House of the Red Dragon" changes in your
telling?
Nope you would not know a fact if it kicked you in the balls (if you
had any … little castrated dog)
> > I don't agree with Gareth on a lot of things. Though I don't see the point
> of verbally disagreeing with him on things I
> > feel fall into the realm of the subjective.
>
> He's a fucking ass that bullies people on other newsgroup in addition to
> this one. He makes as many online enemies as Rhyanon does.
My what a poor use of language ren! On other" newsgroup"? Which one?
Or did you mean news groups??
Swearing is a sign you have a limited vocabulary reny! But we already
knew that by the fact you recycle old posts as new "gambits". Only
fools follow you!
> Hy is a true dragon. She is a very dangerous creature when provoked. But she
> is sweet to those who play nice. She's a quick learner and has her own
> powers that I have learned from her.
Yeah she might cry until she gets her way or get her keepers to defend
her when she hides behind a killfile…..
ÿ Together we have both become stronger.
I can smell you from here.
Noinden
Yet you never do! Others got her TOS'd all you do is make noise like
the little dog you are! All bark and no bite (or balls, nonagon must
have got you... or the Temple of Set)
ren
>
> Jag
>
> (will commence library dig shortly)
O.k. Jag. But for those who profess Neo-Druidism as their religion even they
admit that it is only an approximation and not a reconstruction.
ren
> Yet you never do! Others got her TOS'd all you do is make noise like
> the little dog you are! All bark and no bite (or balls, nonagon must
> have got you... or the Temple of Set)
What if I told you I was friends with some of those of the Temple of Set and
that you should not evoke an organization that you know nothing about. I
warned you about that before. Now leave the ToS out of it.
As for Sandy, well she is friends with some of those of the Temple of Set as
well. I'm not just speaking of online friendship but real pacific coast
gatherings.
You should tuck your tail and leave her alone or she will only continue to
escallate your torment.
~signed Ren,
Church of the SubGenius Chapter of the Red Dragon Society
Friend of the Red Druids of Australia and New Zeland
Friend of the Temple of Set among other important Serpent Clans.
Friend of Eris.
There you go. My resume.
ren
> I am PRO legalization, but also PRO regulation.
> "neurones"?
>
> It is the correct spelling. Especially using the UK dictionary!
>
> OH and if you are going to spell flame:
> "Studies of THC are very poplular right now. It doesn't destroy brain
> cells."
>
> Poplular? What word is that ren?
No. I think we are pretty much in the same camp.
I think that legalization and regulation will be an official and world
governmental acknowledgement of a global society that is already breaking
the law openly.
I myself am a fan of sobriety. However, I am much more prone to accept
another using that drug instead of abusing alcohol which I believe has more
detrimental effects.
I am not a chemist or an evolutionist so I will bow out of this one.
ren
> я Together we have both become stronger.
>
> I can smell you from here.
Yes. Other newsgroups such as alt.druid
They have debated with you quite well and it is not for me to debate you on
your religion as I am not a Druid.
However, I do know that Druidism as it is practiced to day is just an
approximation and not a reconstruction.
Sandy kicked your ass in every possible way, Gareth.
Her Red Dragon Magick outdone your Druidick Magick in every possible way.
She swallowed your soul.
Rhyanon
stalker? Oh, for your info, I'll be changing ISP's sometime in the next
month, get your puling screeches ready to assume it was nothing but the
truth -- I want cheaper service with a better news server.
"Noinden" <sla...@orcon.net.nz> wrote in message
news:b5b2d54.01082...@posting.google.com...
Rhyanon
hope so......
"ren" <r...@bookofshadows.org> wrote in message
news:l%hg7.42359$vW2.18...@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com...
Noinden
> > Yet you never do! Others got her TOS'd all you do is make noise like
> > the little dog you are! All bark and no bite (or balls, nonagon must
> > have got you... or the Temple of Set)
>
> What if I told you I was friends with some of those of the Temple of Set and
> that you should not evoke an organization that you know nothing about. I
> warned you about that before. Now leave the ToS out of it.
It is not your place to warn me about the Temple of Set! I KNOW quite
a few members btw! I am working on something for priest wild of the
Nan Madol Pylon. So Ren old bean you do not scare me with these HOLLOW
threats! (much as your hollow promises never draw many in .only the
stupid and desperate)
SNIP
> ~signed Ren,
> Church of the SubGenius Chapter of the Red Dragon Society
> Friend of the Red Druids of Australia and New Zeland
> Friend of the Temple of Set among other important Serpent Clans.
> Friend of Eris.
>
> There you go. My resume.
Lets see ooo "SubGenius" yeah your "Red Dragon Society" takes on so
much more "credibility" with them! NOT (lets see thus far they have
been Trad witch (old Welsh), Wiccan, and now SubGenius. Yeah that is
realy credible ren. Lies with in lies!
"Red Druids of Australia and New Zealand" (spell it correctly son),
there is no such group and it would be of ASUTRALASIA! Further the
"Red Druids are you stealing from http://www.worldofantra.net
A "friend" of the Temple of Set would get no back up from them either.
One must stand on ones OWN TWO FEET to be shown respect by the Temple.
Those are the only "friends": they have!
Which "Eris" would this be then ren? The "Hail Eris" discordian crap??
Yeah real good for ones credibility ren!
Those who are wise say that: … one who must list all his allies in an
argument is one who is unsure if he can win it.
Just as one who resorts to threats to try and win an argument has
already lost it!
Ponder that !
Noinden
> > Yeah she might cry until she gets her way or get her keepers to defend
> > her when she hides behind a killfile...
> >
> > I can smell you from here.
>
> Yes. Other newsgroups such as alt.druid
No such group!
ALT.RELIGION.DRUID or ALT.SPIRITUALITY.DRUID
Get your facts correct before making claims you can not back up!
> They have debated with you quite well and it is not for me to debate you on
> your religion as I am not a Druid.
Funny thing ren … we debate with each other all the time (There and
various email lists)! Only one person is ever discounted DOUGLAS
MONROE. We get heated. Yet I privately email many on that list! There
has only ever been ONE person on said list I did not get on with and
she and I avoid each other! (she also does not get on with Searles or
Issac (when he posted there) and toadied to Tony!
> However, I do know that Druidism as it is practiced to day is just an
> approximation and not a reconstruction.
You have not talked to a member of IMBAS have you? Modern Druidry
(neodruidry) is a reconstructionist and revalist path. Much like
Heathanisim (that's Asatru to you ren). Can Wicca claim the accuracy
of some of it's ideas?? Because the moment You start throwing that
stone you are open to being critiqued!
Noinden
> I am not a chemist or an evolutionist so I will bow out of this one.
Translation ... "I am in too deep and have been caught out"
Jaguar
It may be splitting hairs but:
We can reconstruct alot of the Celtic religous thought baised on the
mythology, arecheology and greco-roman records/writtings.
Reconstructing what the priests did ritualy - there is not enough data for
that.
(except, perhaps, for the ritual scarifices found in the peat bogs - but
that is against modern law & sensibilities)
We have a good skeleton of celtic religous thought & practice.
But the fine details of ritual to flesh it out have been lost.
& some of the details we DO have, are not transferrable into modern
culture & practice.
So while we know about the priest caste of the Celts, we know what their
function was & some idea of what type of rituals they did.. we know the
mythology, some of the symbolisim.....
The exact rituals themselves have been lost
Jag
>
>
ren
are initiated Wiccans agreed to meet on IRC EFNET #Wicca to discuss the
formation of a Wiccan newsgroup on USENET.
Date of the first and final creation of the newsgroup: alt.religion.wicca.
First--31st of October, 1994.
Final--25th of December, 1994.
This is no coincidence. We were all in college and the holidays were
times we had available to fuck around and give birth to our ideas.
DejaGoogle Statistics:
Earliest Archive DejaGoogleDate: The 29th of March 1995.
First article archived by DejaGoogle under this alias.
Search Result 1
From: ren (r...@iac.net)
Subject: Re: ATTENTION ALL PSYCHICS
Newsgroups: dc.general, alt.religion.wicca, alt.religion.newage,
alt.meditation.shabda, alt.meditation.quanyin, alt.divination,
alt.consciousness.4th-way, alt.consciousness
View: Complete Thread (4 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1995/07/16
Spam in the cupboards, on the table, on the floor, in the beds. Spam for
breakfast, lunch and dinner. Please stop. I don't like Spam! I'm no
Spam-boy!