Wicca and vaccines
Tamara Eddy
newsgroup who might be able to help me. My son is going to be entering
kindergarten in the fall, and needs to get the MMR vaccine. For various
reasons I do not want him to receive ANY further vaccinations, not the least
of which being that he is autistic, and there is enough research out there
backing the fact that vaccines (at the very least the MMR) stay in the
bodies of autistic children. I am trying to get my son exempt from
vaccines, but only have the avenue of a religious exemption. In order to
get this exemption, I have to write a letter to the school district
outlining why the immunizations are against my religion.
Can anyone help me?
I thought about using the side of "harm none", but the government does not
recognize the fact that immunizations are dangerous.
I also thought about coming in from the angle that the body is sacred, and
needs to be healthy and "pure" to perform the rituals. Unfortunately, I am
at a loss to explain my own beliefs.
If anyone can think of a way to word the letter to help me, PLEASE CONTACT
ME.
By the way, my daughter was born with 2 thumbs on her right hand, and I have
an equal dilemma with the fact that her father wants to have it removed. I
believe that I do not have the right to decide to remove parts of her body,
unless it is a life-threatening situation. To me this also violates the
belief of "harm none." If you have any thoughts on this, please let me
know.
Phoenix
others be it oral, topical or by injection.
"Tamara Eddy" <tam...@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:uipf701...@corp.supernews.com...
Baird Stafford
> I have a serious dilemma, and would put a call out to any Wiccan on this
> newsgroup who might be able to help me. My son is going to be entering
> kindergarten in the fall, and needs to get the MMR vaccine. For various
> reasons I do not want him to receive ANY further vaccinations, not the least
> of which being that he is autistic, and there is enough research out there
> backing the fact that vaccines (at the very least the MMR) stay in the
> bodies of autistic children. I am trying to get my son exempt from
> vaccines, but only have the avenue of a religious exemption. In order to
> get this exemption, I have to write a letter to the school district
> outlining why the immunizations are against my religion.
To the best of my knowledge, Wicca as a religion *cannot* help in
this matter. The religion as I have learnt it over the past dozen
years or so appears to be wholly neutral on the matter of modern
medicine. In point of fact, most Wiccans of my acquaintance use
Craft-y healings (Healing Rituals, herbal work and the like) to
supplement rather than replace vaccines, surgery, medications and the
like. I pulled through a major heart attack a few years ago with the
help of medical intervention AS WELL AS the many Workings that were
done on my behalf around the world. I have yet to be persuaded that
either would have been as successful on its own.
> Can anyone help me?
> I thought about using the side of "harm none", but the government does not
> recognize the fact that immunizations are dangerous.
And if your son *were* to catch one of the diseases against which the
vaccines are effective? Where is "harm none," then? The vaccines
are in use because the diseases against which they strengthen the
immune system have not gone away. They're still out there, looking
for likely bodies in which to live. Those diseases are by no means
figments of the collective - nor even governmental! - imagination.
They exist, and they're deadly.
Indeed, by the Rule of Three as I was taught it, inaction can provoke
reactions as severe as action (and sometimes more so). Should your
son succumb to one of the diseases against which you have consciously
chosen not to protect him, I see no reason not to believe that the
karmic repercussions would not be as severe as they would be had you
consciously chosen to expose him directly to the disease itself. The
consequences for your son, after all, would be identical - so why
should not the consequences for you be?
I know this is not an answer you wanted to hear, but Wicca as I was
taught it is NOT Christian Science. The only hope I can hold out to
you is that you may find some medical PROOF that vaccinations harm
autistic children in a statistically significant number of cases -
something strong enough to persuade your local school board to waive
the requirement in his case. Alternatively, you could choose to home
school him - but CHECK LEGAL REQUIREMENTS FOR HOME SCHOOLING IN YOUR
LOCATION BEFORE DECIDING ON THIS COURSE. In some places, those
requirements are as stringent as and sometimes more stringent than
the legal requirements for public or private schools.
> I also thought about coming in from the angle that the body is sacred, and
> needs to be healthy and "pure" to perform the rituals. Unfortunately, I am
> at a loss to explain my own beliefs.
Healthy by whose definition? If "healthy" were a requirement to
perform Wiccan ritual, than I'm afraid that many of the disabled of
my acquaintance would be unqualified to do so - yet I have seen no
indication that their rituals were any less effective than those of
the able-bodied. One of the more effective rituals I have ever
attended was performed by a High Priestess who died a year later from
the consequences of the HIV virus swarming in her bloodstream.
Ritual purity is ensured, at least within the Tradition of which I am
a member, by the ritual bath and purification ceremonies that precede
entry into the Circle. Purity of Spirit seems to me to be the thing
of most importance to the Lady and the Lord - not, necessarily,
purity of Body.
<snip>
> By the way, my daughter was born with 2 thumbs on her right hand, and I have
> an equal dilemma with the fact that her father wants to have it removed. I
> believe that I do not have the right to decide to remove parts of her body,
> unless it is a life-threatening situation. To me this also violates the
> belief of "harm none." If you have any thoughts on this, please let me
> know.
It depends on your own, personal definition of "harm." If your
daughter is not harmed by the jeers and ostracism of her own
age-peers for being visibly, physically different as she grows up,
then you have indeed harmed none. If, one the other hand, such
treatment leaves her socially maladjusted and emotionally crippled,
then the matter is between you and her and the Goddess - and quite
beyond my merely mortal purview.
Blessed be,
Baird
--
Modkin for soc.religion.paganism,
Modstaff for alt.religion.wicca.moderated
Newstaff, Inc. at newstaff.com - a network security company
Voxwoman
medical intervention for your child (vaccines and "corrective" surgery
for her hands), you have picked the wrong religion. Almost all the
Wiccans I know (myself included) have been to doctors, recieved
vaccinations and many have had surgery for various purposes. I don't
know about mumps or rubella, but measels is a deadly disease, IIRC. I
suffered through mumps and rubella as a child (there were no vaccines
available at the time).
It sounds like you have a tough road ahead of you, and I wish you all
the best, and luck besides, in making the choices that are best for you
and your child.
-Wendy of NJ
Nunya
> newsgroup who might be able to help me. My son is going to be entering
> kindergarten in the fall, and needs to get the MMR vaccine. For various
> reasons I do not want him to receive ANY further vaccinations, not the
least
> of which being that he is autistic, and there is enough research out there
> backing the fact that vaccines (at the very least the MMR) stay in the
> bodies of autistic children. I am trying to get my son exempt from
> vaccines, but only have the avenue of a religious exemption. In order to
> get this exemption, I have to write a letter to the school district
> outlining why the immunizations are against my religion.
Perhaps you might contact any organization that does the research or has
information showing harm to autistic children from the vaccine, or speak to
your doctor? My mother went through something similar when I was a child.
While not autistic, when I was 7 we discovered the hard way that I have a
violent allergy to tetanus. Yet it was required. Every year it was a fight
with the school despite them having copies of the hospital and doctor
reports on the allergy. The only reason they exempted me every year from it
was because to follow the law would kill me. :/
Maybe if you can get your hands on whatever research there is regarding
autism and the MMR they might make an exception. As for a religious one,
personally I've never heard of anything in Wicca that disallows vaccines,
but that's just me. You might also want to bear in mind that the MMR is not
the only vaccine required for children entering kindergarten. You could
have serious problems trying to claim that the MMR is the only vaccine
disallowed by Wicca. :( If you allowed the vaccine before, it would only
make the religious claim even harder to prove.
>
> Can anyone help me?
> I thought about using the side of "harm none", but the government does not
> recognize the fact that immunizations are dangerous.
They recognize side effects, but consider the good to outweigh the bad.
>
> I also thought about coming in from the angle that the body is sacred, and
> needs to be healthy and "pure" to perform the rituals. Unfortunately, I
am
> at a loss to explain my own beliefs.
It would also probably not hold up legally if the belief is only against the
MMR. (Not trying to rain on your parade! Just thinking with my legal hat
on.) Also it may not hold unless the child is performing rituals
him/herself. You might also want to consult with a lawyer along with a
doctor as to the legal aspects, since the vaccines are required by law.
>
> If anyone can think of a way to word the letter to help me, PLEASE CONTACT
> ME.
>
> By the way, my daughter was born with 2 thumbs on her right hand, and I
have
> an equal dilemma with the fact that her father wants to have it removed.
I
> believe that I do not have the right to decide to remove parts of her
body,
> unless it is a life-threatening situation. To me this also violates the
> belief of "harm none." If you have any thoughts on this, please let me
> know.
IMO, it wouldn't be harm. Children as they grow can end up being ostracized
by other children for the slightest differences. A child in school with an
extra thumb will more than likely be dealt a lot of grief by other students
(however unfair and wrong it is). Not to mention surgery at a later age
might be physically more difficult. In the end I think there would be less
harm in doing the surgery than leaving the thumb when you consider the
emotional aspects for them growing up with it.
Good luck to you and Blessed Be!
-Shell
>
>
Cerberus <-^->
Sorry but I have to disagree with you about the vaccination issue as well. I
studied Microbiology and Epidemiology at University, and I can offer you
this against not having your child immunised. Although I am a bit rusty on
the Rubella disease. Measles has an 80% transmission rate in a unimmunised
group. Many people assume that because there hasn't been a serious outbreak
of a disease then the disease has been conquered by human intervention but
this is not the case (apart from Smallpox probably). Most of these diseases
has reseviors in non human hosts and are just waiting for herd immunity to
drop low enough to sustain an epidemic. Herd immunity basically means that
if say 90% of a population (rough figure) is immunised against a particular
disease then the remaining non-immunised population would be sparsely
distributed and thus not able to sustain an epidemic. I know that a few
parents have taken the stand that there is no case for immunisation but
think if enough people take this stance then the herd immunity in your
community will not be sufficient to prevent an epidemic. As far as the
dangerous effects of immunisation goes.. many vaccines are in fact
inactivated versions of the actual disease and as such are sometimes capable
of producing a MILDER version of the actual disease in the recipient if the
recipient is especially susceptible to the disease. By milder I am saying
something that is probably at most 5-10% of the strength of the disease.If
your child does suffer adverse effects of the immunisation try to imagine
these symptoms being 10-20 times worse, which would be the case if your
child actually caught the disease. If you need further convincing look up
pathology textbooks and the internet for symptoms of the disease you are
being immunised against, many of them are potentially lethal. Doctors don't
come up with immunisations for any disease they can discover, the benefits
of immunisation need to by far outweigh the effects of the full-blown
disease in the community.
Take my advice and have your child immunised it's better than the
alternative.
Cerberus
"Tamara Eddy" <tam...@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:uipf701...@corp.supernews.com...
April Rayne
Newsgroups: alt.religion.wicca.moderated
> I have a serious dilemma, and would put a call out to any Wiccan on this
> newsgroup who might be able to help me. My son is going to be entering
> kindergarten in the fall, and needs to get the MMR vaccine. For various
> reasons I do not want him to receive ANY further vaccinations, not the
least
> of which being that he is autistic, and there is enough research out there
> backing the fact that vaccines (at the very least the MMR) stay in the
> bodies of autistic children.
WELL DONE GIRL more power to your elbow! I wouldn't allow my children to be
immunised AT ALL for anything!
They totally compromise the body and immune system. I wouldn't mind betting
your little boy was a perfectly normal health child UNTIL he had his first
shots!
What I did do was ensure mine were raised on an organic natural whole food
diet and had plenty of outdoor exercise so they were strong enough to fight
off any childhood diseases with ease and a little assistance from the
relevant homoeopathic remedy and herbs. Today's sick cycle of vacc's,
practically from birth, a diet of junk food soaked in a cocktail of
chemicals with the usual obligatory doses of anti-biotics and steroids, as a
matter of course, spells a future of ever increasing mental and physical ill
health. As the posts to this group will testify tho' it would appear few
can see the obvious connection!
I am trying to get my son exempt from
> vaccines, but only have the avenue of a religious exemption. In order to
> get this exemption, I have to write a letter to the school district
> outlining why the immunizations are against my religion.
Tricky one this, I'd say move to a more enlightened country but that's
hardly practical.
It sounds as if you've already gathered some evidence against the MMR vacc
and it's fallen on deaf ears.
> Can anyone help me?
*What Doctor's Don't Tell You* is a monthly publication to which I
subscribe, they have a website www.wddty.co.uk where you'll find some
useful ammunition to help you fight your corner. Only their home page was
active when I checked a few minutes ago, if it's still
having problems when you try to access the other pages their addy is
wd...@zoo.co.uk
Best of luck Tamara, you have my sympathy and blessing
April R - A none vaccinated healthy pensioner
Matthew Vincent
wrote:
>I have a serious dilemma, and would put a call out to any Wiccan on this
>newsgroup who might be able to help me. My son is going to be entering
>kindergarten in the fall, and needs to get the MMR vaccine. For various
>reasons I do not want him to receive ANY further vaccinations, not the least
>of which being that he is autistic, and there is enough research out there
>backing the fact that vaccines (at the very least the MMR) stay in the
>bodies of autistic children. I am trying to get my son exempt from
>vaccines, but only have the avenue of a religious exemption. In order to
>get this exemption, I have to write a letter to the school district
>outlining why the immunizations are against my religion.
>
>Can anyone help me?
>I thought about using the side of "harm none", but the government
>does not recognize the fact that immunizations are dangerous.
I really can't say that I approve in principle of the idea of
inventing a bogus religious concern in order to avoid subjecting
children to medical procedures. Wiccans and other Pagans are having a
hard enough time as it is re: discrimination, without getting a bad
name for being associated with kooky religious beliefs that we don't
actually promote. If you have genuine secular reasons for why you
think it'd be better for your son not to have a particular medical
procedure done, then surely you should consider the issue directly
based on the pros and cons of different choices. You may be in the
right about the autism issue; it's worth arguing for it and getting
medical advice from different sources.
>By the way, my daughter was born with 2 thumbs on her right hand,
>and I have an equal dilemma with the fact that her father wants to
>have it removed. I believe that I do not have the right to decide
>to remove parts of her body, unless it is a life-threatening situation.
Tough choice. How old is your daughter, and what does *she* want? IMO
you're probably right not to remove the thumb, unless there's a
practical medical reason to do so. Baird makes a good point that she
might be taunted for it, but nonetheless, you could also argue that
seeing the diversity of the human body would be something that could
challenge people's worldviews in a good way. Tolerance of differences,
and appreciation for the vulnerabilities of the human body and
emotions -- and thus the need to care about ourselves and each other
-- is something that's important for all of us to learn.
Good luck with all of this. May you do right by what is best for your
children when making these difficult decisions.
Blessed be,
Matthew
Voxwoman
Matthew Vincent wrote:
Matthew, do you remember being a child in school? Children are the most
intolerant, clique-ish, nastiest, cruelest group of people there are.
(and didn't somebody get nailed to a cross trying to show people how to
be tolerant and challenge the world view of the status quo?)
From the original post, this child is starting kindergarten, so he(?)
is around 5 or 6.
Jennifer Schmidt
already said things I would say as well... so I will attempt a different
tack.
What worries me here is the black & white line of belief. I am a big
believer in the gray area, but not a fan of it as life would be so much
easier if it were all black & white. Fundamentalism isn't based on any
particular religious belief, but on the black & white of whatever belief.
One of my favorite analogies comes into play here... the harder you try to
hold a handful of mud, the more that squeezes out between your fingers.
I think on vaccine and other healthcare issues, you really have to do a
risk-benefit analysis... ie. do the benefits outweigh the risks. Often this
is a personal judgement call. I chose to vaccinate my kids and had no
problems. I know people who have chosen not to vaccinate or have chosen
which vaccinations they would allow and respect them for their decisions.
One friend chose only the tetanus shot for her kids.
My disdain comes in for those who don't make **informed** decisions in their
lives. Most people follow what their doctors (or other "authorities") say
without question. So much for exercising their freedoms!
My own personal use of risk-benefit has come into play many times in my own
life. The two starkest examples I can think of are with my own two kids, I
had to choose whether to continue trying rounds of antibiotics or have their
tonsils and adenoids out. We fought constant strep infections with
attendant rounds of antibiotics, missed work & school, stress (from lost
work & money), and fear (of strep's nasty complications involving the kidney
and heart) over a period of YEARS. I knew the surgical option was not
without risk, but I felt it was a better option than continuing antibiotics
over and over. My son did end up with a bleed which required emergency
surgery to repair, but in the long run, I feel I did the right thing.
To boil it out, get informed and make your best choices.
Jenni Schmidt
Columbia MO
Gale
Matthew, I've got to agree with your harsh words on this one. If there
is a genuine overriding health concern regarding the child, then the
parent must establish that issue. Concocting phoney religious reasons is
highly unethical. And Wicca, as I understand it, leaves all questions
regarding medication to the individual.
I could launch on a personal tirade regarding over-medication and all
the excesses of modern medicine, but I would note in so-doing that I do
*not* consider vaccination programs an "excess." Unless one has
over-riding medical concerns in an individual case, one should
enthusiastically participate in the medically prescribed vaccination
programs. (And if you do not agree with me, I will sincerely and
honestly suggest that you request a "pre-vaccination" incarnation from
the Time Lords the next time around; the opportunity to witness a small
pox, polio, or diptheria epidemic might prove highly educational.)
--
Blessed Be,
Gale
original fiction, poetry, Tarot at
http://www.capstonebeads.com/Magick.html
modstaff alt.religion.wicca.moderated: http://arwm.net
April Rayne
Subject: Re: Wicca and vaccines
<much snipping>
> My own personal use of risk-benefit has come into play many times in my
own
> life. The two starkest examples I can think of are with my own two kids,
I
> had to choose whether to continue trying rounds of antibiotics or have
their
> tonsils and adenoids out. We fought constant strep infections with
> attendant rounds of antibiotics, missed work & school, stress (from lost
> work & money), and fear (of strep's nasty complications involving the
kidney
> and heart) over a period of YEARS. I knew the surgical option was not
> without risk, but I felt it was a better option than continuing
antibiotics
> over and over. My son did end up with a bleed which required emergency
> surgery to repair, but in the long run, I feel I did the right thing.
Not exactly a vastly * informed* choice though was it Jenni if I may say so.
Simply an orthodox medicines either or, whilst there were several safer none
invasive alternative options open to you.
April R
Songweaver
I also believe that one has to consider the risks and benefits, and I
decided many years ago, long before I had children, that my kids would
be fully immunized. These diseases are still in existence, and the
risks of contracting them far outweigh the risks from being immunized;
one in four kids who contracts measles will die, for instance. My
education helped in this decision, too. I studied microbiology at UCLA,
so I know all about how these infections work and that nothing can stop
measles, mumps, rubella, and polio once they start; viruses need to run
their course. Tetanus spores are all over the place, and it's the toxin
released when they germinate that causes the disease (just like
anthrax), so it's an inactive form of the toxin that's used for the
immunization. The diphtheria and pertussis (whooping cough) bacteria
are still around, too, and the risks from getting these nasties are much
worse than the risks from the immunizations.
> My disdain comes in for those who don't make **informed** decisions in
their
> lives. Most people follow what their doctors (or other "authorities")
say
> without question. So much for exercising their freedoms!
Exactly. I never take anything a doctor says as the only way, and I
only ever go to a doctor if I have something that doesn't go away on
it's own in a short while. Same with my kids, unless they need a
check-up for summer camp or something. I've also had success getting
some chronic things under control using herbs, and I'm planning on
studying this in more detail.
> My own personal use of risk-benefit has come into play many times in
my own
> life. The two starkest examples I can think of are with my own two
kids, I
> had to choose whether to continue trying rounds of antibiotics or have
their
> tonsils and adenoids out. We fought constant strep infections with
> attendant rounds of antibiotics, missed work & school, stress (from
lost
> work & money), and fear (of strep's nasty complications involving the
kidney
> and heart) over a period of YEARS. I knew the surgical option was not
> without risk, but I felt it was a better option than continuing
antibiotics
> over and over. My son did end up with a bleed which required
emergency
> surgery to repair, but in the long run, I feel I did the right thing.
Ultimately that was your decision, and I probably would have made the
same choice. Overuse of antibiotics is leading to some of the nastiest
drug-resistant bugs.
> To boil it out, get informed and make your best choices.
Yep. Get as much info as you can, then decide. Always the best way to
go.
Blessings,
Songweaver
Wood Avens
IN response to Tamara, "Cerberus <-^->" <cere...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
>Herd immunity basically means that
>if say 90% of a population (rough figure) is immunised against a particular
>disease then the remaining non-immunised population would be sparsely
>distributed and thus not able to sustain an epidemic. I know that a few
>parents have taken the stand that there is no case for immunisation but
>think if enough people take this stance then the herd immunity in your
>community will not be sufficient to prevent an epidemic.
[snip]
Here in the UK parents can opt out of the MMR vaccine for their
children without having to give reasons. Because of the scares (I say
'scares' because I've not heard of any *proven* causative link) the
level of vaccinations in a few areas has fallen below that 90% level
(I think to about 85, but don't quote me, I'm going on memory here -
it might be lower) and there has been a big upswing in the number of
cases of measles in those areas.
Do you have the option of having these three vaccinations separately,
rather than all together? This is an alternative that some parents
here have gone for.
Being a parent is hard, because there are any number of these choices
where you're not presented with a good/bad choice so much as needing
to choose the least bad of several not-good options. Good luck with
whatever your choice is.
bb
Wood Avens
spamtrap: remove number to reply
..
Shez
<tam...@localnet.com> writes
>I have a serious dilemma, and would put a call out to any Wiccan on this
>newsgroup who might be able to help me. My son is going to be entering
>kindergarten in the fall, and needs to get the MMR vaccine. For various
>reasons I do not want him to receive ANY further vaccinations, not the least
>of which being that he is autistic, and there is enough research out there
>backing the fact that vaccines (at the very least the MMR) stay in the
>bodies of autistic children. I am trying to get my son exempt from
>vaccines, but only have the avenue of a religious exemption. In order to
>get this exemption, I have to write a letter to the school district
>outlining why the immunizations are against my religion.
>
>Can anyone help me?
>I thought about using the side of "harm none", but the government does not
>recognize the fact that immunizations are dangerous.
>
>I also thought about coming in from the angle that the body is sacred, and
>needs to be healthy and "pure" to perform the rituals. Unfortunately, I am
>at a loss to explain my own beliefs.
I don't think it works quite like that, I am disabled and I know a lot
of wiccans who are disabled or sick, its a spiritual thing surely rather
than a physical thing. Not sticking your body full of stuff that isn't
good for it, would I think be more likely to be cigarettes, alcohol and
social drugs. Though some of us do that, I smoke for instance.
Personal will has to be paramount, in such decisions, if you want to
smoke or drink or take drugs and you know the consequences then its up
to you.
>
>If anyone can think of a way to word the letter to help me, PLEASE CONTACT
>ME.
>
>By the way, my daughter was born with 2 thumbs on her right hand, and I have
>an equal dilemma with the fact that her father wants to have it removed. I
>believe that I do not have the right to decide to remove parts of her body,
>unless it is a life-threatening situation. To me this also violates the
>belief of "harm none." If you have any thoughts on this, please let me
>know.
>
>
Your government forces you to have your child vaccinated ? I know the
MMR Jab is controversial in this country, but you can refuse to let your
child have it, and you can if you wish pay to have separate injections
as the problem seems to be in the three in one jab.
I don't know enough about it to comment my children are fully grown, But
I do know that a pregnant woman who gets mumps can lose her baby, and
that a man who gets mumps might end up sterile, so its important to at
least get the mumps jab. (Rubella)
all three of the diseases are killers, or can disable people, Measles
can at its worst kill, blind, deafen, and cause brain problems.
As for the two thumbs, its your choice of course, but if its done while
she is young it will scar less, and to be honest, children who are
different have a very difficult time at school,
My daughter had a polyp on her ear when she was born and it was removed
within a week, I did not want her to unhappy because she was different
and picked on because she was physically different, life is tough
enough.
You must of course make a decision the earlier the better, but instead
of thinking about your problem with this, imagine your chills problem
and decide taking that into account.
All to often as parents we look only at our own reactions to things,
instead of taking the child's possible reactions and problems with our
decisions into account.
I am not sure that Wicca has any answers for you, because its a
spiritual path not an answer to every question, or a set of set in
concrete rules, You do have to work very hard yourself to find the
answers, Wicca is not like many religions written in books or on stone
tablets,
Harm none can mean many things, and in some cases doing nothing can lead
to a great deal of harm, I suspect a child with two thumbs would
consider the bullying and hurt they would suffer from such an obvious
physical disability to be very harmful indeed, spiritually and
physically.
You are perhaps taking what are loose ideas, and suggestions to help you
find your own spiritual path too literally, and making them hard and
fast rules,
--
Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
Gwynyth
> Can anyone help me?
> I thought about using the side of "harm none", but the government does not
> recognize the fact that immunizations are dangerous.
Unfortunately, as far as we can tell, the *lack* of immunisations is
even more dangerous.
Let me give you an example. They've relatively recently (last 5 years)
come out with a chicken pox vaccine. I managed to go through 5 separate
outbreaks of chicken pox when I was in grade school (including sitting
with people who were diagnosed with it the next day). When the vaccine
came out (because I'd never had it that we could tell), my doctor did an
antibody test, and determined that I had no antibodies for it.
Chicken pox in adults can have very serious side effects. Chicken pox in
adults with asthma (which I have, along with lung scarring) has a not
insignificant fatality rate. If I'd actually managed to get it in
childhood, no problem. As an adult, serious potential problems (and I
work in a high school currently, so it's quite possible there might be
another outbreak that I'd be exposed to.) Mumps and rubella, at the
least, have some similar issues in adults.
Another issue to consider is that the requests for vaccinations won't
stop. Not only are they required for school, but also often for camps,
college, and - should your child for some reason decide they want to
immigrate to another country, quite probably for immigration. (My
husband, who's Canadian, had to prove his vaccination status for a range
of things when he was getting the visa to come here so we could marry.)
If you can put together a good case based on *medical* reasoning, and
update that with new information as it becomes available, you're much
more likely to have a successful outcome in future cases if you can
manage it once - rather than relying on religious arguments (especially
with a religion which is has as few standard beliefs as Wicca, and where
there are a wide variety of interpretations).
I did a quick websearch at Google on 'immunization dangers' and found a
variety of sites, some of which I found much more viable than others. (I
don't know about you, but I think if people are presenting serious
potential medical concerns, they should also be able to spellcheck or
proofread the pages they write about such things, or have someone else
do so).
I did find one site ( http://home.san.rr.com/via/ ) which looks like it
has useful and intelligently written information. It's possible that it
might have information that would be useful in your specific situation
(see the 'State Info' link)
> I also thought about coming in from the angle that the body is sacred, and
> needs to be healthy and "pure" to perform the rituals. Unfortunately, I am
> at a loss to explain my own beliefs.
As others have said: they might be your beliefs, but they're not (at
least the way you're stating them), common Wiccan beliefs, and you will
therefore have a hard time documenting them as such.
As others have said, you will probably have a better argument looking
for citations about the medical dangers in your child's situation, or
seeing if you can get separate injections, or into other alternatives.
> If anyone can think of a way to word the letter to help me, PLEASE CONTACT
> ME.
>
> By the way, my daughter was born with 2 thumbs on her right hand, and I have
> an equal dilemma with the fact that her father wants to have it removed. I
> believe that I do not have the right to decide to remove parts of her body,
> unless it is a life-threatening situation. To me this also violates the
> belief of "harm none." If you have any thoughts on this, please let me
> know.
One thing you might want to consider here are the actual physical
limitations it might impose on her.
For example, learning how to write, or - as more and more schools are
including at least some typing and computer work at earlier and earlier
ages - typing. (In this case, I'd think an extra thumb would be a much
greater physical issue than an extra pinky might be.) She might also
find other physical activities (like playing with friends) much more
difficult. As well, if she becomes interested in a musical instrument,
or you want that to be a part of her education, that's likely to cause
her problems. Even if she decided to have surgery later (at her choice),
it's quite possible she would need to relearn some skills, or change how
she did certain actions (the angle of hands/wrists might change)
As a woman who was a not very coordinated child for a long time (my
family has a family tendency to not have very good fine motor skills
until around the time we hit puberty), I know I felt miserable as a
result. Add to that the teasing or misunderstanding or odd treatment she
might get from other children or adults in her school, and the problems
start adding up.
One suggestion here might be to see if you can get in touch with a
number of parents (and, ideally, articulate children) who have been in a
similar situation. Perhaps posting on one of the kids groups, or in a
parenting mailing list, and asking people to pass on your message if
they knew of parents who'd dealt with these issues might help.
--
Gwynyth * gwy...@polyamory.org * http://www.polyamory.org/~gwynyth
Voxwoman
Gale wrote:
Gale, you reminded me of (another) story my mom used to tell us. She was
born in the Bronx in 1925, and she remembers how her mother and all the
other mothers in the neighborhood would dread summer, because that's
when polio would strike. And kids would get sick and get crippled or die.
I also want to add that while some of the diseases that the MMR vaccine
prevent are not fatal, they have been linked to sterility and birth
defects (for the next generation). That's why my mother deliberately
infected me with Rubella when my younger brother got it (I was 11 at the
time) by letting me finish his soup, because she knew that I would get
an immunity and would not be at risk for it during my childbearing years
(this was also before there WAS a vaccine for rubella). The rubella
vaccine was found when I was in high school, and all the girls were
tested for immunity (from a prior bout with the disease), and those that
weren't immune were given the vaccine. Rubella causes serious birth
defects if you get it when you are pregnant.
-Wendy of NJ
>
Voxwoman
Shez wrote:
Not as such. the public (state supported) schools require that all
students be "up to date" with vaccinations before the will permit the
children to mingle with each other. And as parents should know, whenever
you get kids together from different families, they are exposed to all
sorts of new viruses and bacteria that their little immune systems can't
yet handle. the first year in a classroom situation, most kids are ill.
Mine was sick with something on an almost weekly basis for her first
year of daycare. Now she rarely gets sick at all (since she's built up a
fantastic immune system).
I know the
> MMR Jab is controversial in this country, but you can refuse to let your
> child have it, and you can if you wish pay to have separate injections
> as the problem seems to be in the three in one jab.
> I don't know enough about it to comment my children are fully grown, But
> I do know that a pregnant woman who gets mumps can lose her baby, and
> that a man who gets mumps might end up sterile, so its important to at
> least get the mumps jab. (Rubella)
Rubella was what we used to call "German Measles" and causes birth
defects. Mumps is an infection of the glands in the jaw, and you can't
chew for a week when you get it. (I've had both, in the way-back-when
before the vaccines for these).
Tamara Eddy
concern". Unfortunately, being a solitary practitioner for the last 17
years, I do not have anyone to bounce this problem off of, and like anyone
in the situation of having to protect their own child from a perceived
threat, I am too close to the situation. That is why I came here to sound
out my concerns with others who could be more objective. I have suffered a
lot of discrimination for my religion, including being accused of doing
hexes and voodoo, so I do NOT want to open myself or others of this religion
to any further persecution.
I do want to thank everyone for their views, both pro and con. I would be
ignorant indeed if I did not see the value of seeking guidance from others
more well-versed in law and theology than I.
Tamara
Matthew Vincent <mb...@NOSPAM.student.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:3d2d75a5...@news.canterbury.ac.nz...
Tamara Eddy
the intestinal tract of these children. I have been told that there is a
shortage of vaccines all over the country, and because of this, the
individual vaccines are not being produced/available.
I really am not a crackpot. I have just had to take care of a child that
has gotten sick every 3 weeks since he was 4 months old. It makes you very
wary of putting things into his system that could make it even worse.
Wood Avens <woodav...@gmx.co.uk> wrote in message
news:790riuc6pmjsgh8tc...@4ax.com...
Jennifer Schmidt
can with the information you've got and can find. I honestly don't see how
I had any other alternatives. I get frustrated with extremists from both
the medical and holistic sides of the coin. They spend so much time arguing,
they never look outside their boxes to a synergistic middle ground.
Strep is not something to pussyfoot around with, it can cause Rheumatic
Heart Disease or Acute Glomerularnephritis (swelling withing the filtering
portion of the kidney).
Jenni Schmidt
======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
Indeed it can! -- we forget how dangerous strep was in the pre-antibiotic days; but may also discover its danger again if we create immune germs by overprescription. -- BB, Gale
Jen the Obscure
> Tamara Eddy <tam...@localnet.com> wrote:
>
> > My son is going to be entering
> > kindergarten in the fall, and needs to get the MMR vaccine. For various
> > reasons I do not want him to receive ANY further vaccinations, not the least
> > of which being that he is autistic, and there is enough research out there
> > backing the fact that vaccines (at the very least the MMR) stay in the
> > bodies of autistic children.
I am aware of that, but is there any research linking the dormant vaccination to
further harm?
<snip>
> The only hope I can hold out to you is that you may find some medical PROOF that
> vaccinations harm autistic children in a statistically significant number of
> cases - something strong enough to persuade your local school board to waive the
> requirement in his case.
I'm confused by how Tamara means "harm". Yes, there has been "evidence" that
certain vaccines -cause- autism, but even this research is questionable (no
statistics, for one thing). I have Asperger's (highest-functioning autism), but do
not believe it was caused by a vaccine. I have seen no studies on the effects of
vaccines on children who already have autism. That doesn't mean there aren't any;
there well may be, but I haven't seen them myself.
In the early 1980's, the Waldorf school system where I was attending was -heavily-
anti-vaccination. When measles and whooping cough broke out in the school within
weeks of each other, I got pulled out.
Given the severity of measles, mumps and rubella (especially since measles can
kill), a beesting jab and maybe soreness afterward is preferable to actually
getting the disease and then having to undergo treatment. This is the viewpoint
I've taken myself toward any vaccinations.
I am not a doctor, nor do I pretend to play one on TV...
Shez
<voxw...@hotmail.com> writes
>I know the
>> MMR Jab is controversial in this country, but you can refuse to let your
>> child have it, and you can if you wish pay to have separate injections
>> as the problem seems to be in the three in one jab.
>> I don't know enough about it to comment my children are fully grown, But
>> I do know that a pregnant woman who gets mumps can lose her baby, and
>> that a man who gets mumps might end up sterile, so its important to at
>> least get the mumps jab. (Rubella)
>
>
>Rubella was what we used to call "German Measles" and causes birth defects.
>Mumps is an infection of the glands in the jaw, and you can't chew for a week
>when you get it. (I've had both, in the way-back-when before the vaccines for
>these).
I was thinking German measles and put mumps, I have had all of the
above, and wouldn't want any child to go through them,
Mumps is horrible and can leave you with glandular problems for life.
Measles can kill and disable and blind, and Rhubella can make you
sterile, if your a man or you can abort if your a woman.
My Mum made sure we caught all of the various nasties going round when
she could, especially measles and Rhubella ( German measles)
It was better to catch them when you were a child, I can still remember
the itching it went on for weeks with measles and German measles, I
wanted to tear my skin off.
And with mumps I ended up with ulcers in my ears...horrible.
I don't like vaccination, but I hate the diseases far worse, if you know
how awful the disease are then vaccination I must admit looks the best
bet.
Having the whole neighbourhood down with such illnesses meant when you
eventually went back to school some of your friends didn't, they were
dead.
--
Shez sh...@oldcity.demon.co.uk
Phyllis Gilmore
> I have a serious dilemma, and would put a call out to any Wiccan on this
> newsgroup who might be able to help me. My son is going to be entering
> kindergarten in the fall, and needs to get the MMR vaccine. For various
> reasons I do not want him to receive ANY further vaccinations, not the
> least
I know I'm coming in late, but why do you want to categorically refuse
what I consider a priceless gift from the Gods--medical knowledge?
I had rubella as an infant. I'm told I was dangerously ill with it.
Yet, as an adult, I had no antibodies for it--which could have put a
child of my own in serious danger, had I gotten it.
I was born in 1954--near enough the polio outbreaks to hear first-hand
accounts of the horrors of that.
I had chicken pox in kindergarten--and came down with a delayed "side
effect" of having that supposedly innocuous illness once--"shingles"
(formally called herpes zoster)--but in my case modern medicine was
there yet again with help (I was lucky enough to get Zovirax in time to
prevent many symptoms--which in my case could easily have included
blindness, given where the lesions were).
On a more serious note, one of my fellow students in grade school got
diptheria--another got a different nasty (I can't recall, but I think
it's the "R" in the series). Both could have died, quite easily. The
latter kid was in danger of a permanently weakened heart, if I recall
corectly.
You just don't hear of kids coming down with diseases like polio and
diptheria these days--and the major reason is vaccines.
I used to sneer quietly at Christians who would refuse medical treatment
while praying for a cure. It always struck me that the One had already
provided the cure--but what the folks really wanted was theatrics and to
feel special. Be careful that you're not refusing a gift from the One
for similar reasons.
Moonwing
Cerberus <-^->
grayish response for your post (through my flu clouded head)
Firstly you need to look for an alternative to the vaccination being against
your religion. Although wicca can't assist there are some religions which
this would be an argument, HOWEVER, these religions are totally
non-intervention so while you can find a means to not vaccinate your child,
you also need to stop any treatment if he is taking any for his condition,
and if he falls ill you cannot use modern medicine to help. The religion
answer can become a big trap if you are not careful.
The only possible way to be exempt from vaccination would take a lot of
research on your part as follows.
If you are convinced that the vaccination has harmful effects on your child,
you need to research medical papers and the like in peer reviewed journals
or on respected websites (CDC, WHO, USAMRIID, etc.). Anything you find needs
to display at least a twofold risk increase in problems due to vaccination
complications.
Forget about using a search engine to find a connection between vaccination
and autism, unless you use something like medline which is a database of all
published articles in medical fields (post 74 I think). Personal websites
however authentic they may appear will just be laughed at by the school and
government for two reasons. Most contain speculative data presented as fact
in order to push the publishers agenda, and those with some form of data
were not conducted in a way to make them acceptible for peer reviewed
publication. (I realise this may be an overgeneralisation but I am simply
trying to pose the problem you will encounter if you try to use these as
evidence). Being not acceptible for publication means that there was
something really wrong with the research methodology as you will be looking
into epidemiology papers rather than medical papers in most cases, and most
journals will publish anything written by an epidemiologist regardless of
the quality of the research or data extrapolated from such research (usually
the publisher only know the basic formula for an epidemiological study so as
long as it looks right it gets published. Even if it is fundamentally
wrong). If you fail to find any peer reviewed evidence then I would say that
the risk is negligible, since researchers are looking for anything to
investigate that will get them in a journal.
This may not help but it is probably your only option (I hope it came out
correctly My thoughts are a bit garbled at present)
--
Cerberus <-^-> ICQ 164584935
"We are cups, constantly and quietly being filled. The trick is, knowing how
to tip ourselves over and let the beautiful stuff out."
N`osal Woodbender
Tamara,
Claiming that not wanting the vaccines is for religious reasons is
stretching it a little bit. It requires more then a letter to the school
in general if it is state law. If you have serious reservations about
having him take the vaccines for health reasons, use those. I will check
but I cannot remember of hearing another case that involved shots and
wicca. If you have legal problems like this and blame it on your faith
and it is not truly a problem with your faith you can add to the
difficulties of legal validation of wicca for others. There are
Christian sects who have that as part of their dogma, but none in wicca.
This is just my opinion, it is not that of WARD. That said.
You might check with your local WARD state rep, if you live in
Washington state you can email me privately. I am asst. rep for
Washington state. Basicaly anyone who is in a position to get help for
you will need to see copies of all documents pertaining to the case.
Without this information, nothing can move forward.
As an individual with fibromyalgia, I understand how frustrating
dealing with doctors and the law. But using my faith has never played
into it. I think you are barking up a wrong tree here.
--
Ya'at'eeh, Greg
Yowie
> I do NOT want you to think that I am trying to invent "a bogus religious
> concern". Unfortunately, being a solitary practitioner for the last 17
> years, I do not have anyone to bounce this problem off of, and like anyone
> in the situation of having to protect their own child from a perceived
> threat, I am too close to the situation. That is why I came here to sound
> out my concerns with others who could be more objective. I have suffered
a
> lot of discrimination for my religion, including being accused of doing
> hexes and voodoo, so I do NOT want to open myself or others of this
religion
> to any further persecution.
>
> I do want to thank everyone for their views, both pro and con. I would be
> ignorant indeed if I did not see the value of seeking guidance from others
> more well-versed in law and theology than I.
Obviously vaccinations go against your beliefs. And you obviously follow
Wicca. But do you have to link the two in your letter to wherever it about
your beliefs against vaccines?
I don't know where you are inthe world, but stating "vaccinations go against
my own personal beliefs" is a good a reason as you need to be able to refuse
the vaccination here in Australia. You don't have to go into a great essay
about beilf systems, established religions etc etc to state that you, as an
individual, object to the idea.
My suggestion would be not to mention Wicca or any other name for a religion
at all. Just keep it to "my personal beliefs" - that way, you are neither
lying nor misrepresenting any particular religion. They are, after all, your
own personal set of beliefs and they can't disprove those as they migh tbe
able to if you stated that Wicca was against vaccinations (because, as you
know, Wicca makes no stand on that issue).
Just my 2c
Yowie
Tamara Eddy
direction. I hope you get well soon.
Blessed be.
Cerberus <-^-> <cere...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:xLNX8.1877$Cq.9...@ozemail.com.au...
Tamara Eddy
with the state for ANY reason can be very frustrating. It's like being in a
casino, the house has the deck stacked in it's favour before you even sit
down to the table.
I have tried to get my children's father to speak to his pastor, as I
believe that he has a stronger case for it than I do. He keeps saying he
will, but has not done so in the last two months that I have been asking. I
am still speaking with both the Health Dept. and doctors about the medical
side.
As I said, nothing is set in stone, nor a hard and fast rule, save that I
will do anything for my children.
Tamara
N`osal Woodbender <nosalwo...@nosalwoodbender.com> wrote in message
news:3D2FE283...@nosalwoodbender.com...
Brian Garrett
Cerberus, that was very well-said. I wish I could express my thoughts that
clearly when I'm perfectly healthy. Kudos.
Brian
Tamara Eddy
religious exemption, b) philisophical exemption, and c) medical exemption.
medical exemption - you need to have a physician write a letter to the
school district stating that the child is exempt from receiving vaccinations
because to do so would be "detrimental to the health of the child". (BTW,
the state law does NOT state HOW detrimental the vaccine must be). The
doctor must specify which of the vaccines the child is not to receive. The
school nurse already implied that she would go after the license of the
doctor who writes such a script because she feels that the only medical
exemptions should be for "those with autoimmune disorders who REALLY can't
handle the vaccine." She left out a range of reactions possible to the
vaccines.
Philisophical exemption - The hardest to get. Only 15 states in the US
recognise the philisophical exemption. Mine is NOT one of the fifteen.
Religious exemption - The easest to get in my state. I am not dishonest
enough to "join" a religion for just long enough to get a religious
exemption through my district, but was looking for what the views of other
Wiccans were. I realise that my problem is a philisophical/medical one, but
if there were a religious nitch that could be used, it would be far easier
to do so. Is it unethical? I have to ask which is more unethical, to allow
something that I perceive to be dangerous or to TRY to find a way to opt out
of it. Again, I am NOT trying to be dishonest, nor make things harder for
Wiccans in general. You would not believe the discrimination I have been
through in the last 17 years.
Yowie <yowi...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3d306c70$0$16287$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Leotine
>I knew it was a long-shot when I wrote to the group. Unfortunately, dealing
>with the state for ANY reason can be very frustrating.
<snip><popping in here and piggy backing>
When does a chemical cease to be a chemical and become a lifeform ??
Does the state have the right to impose chemical substances be
injected into us or our children. ??
And How I stood up to the bureaucratic mill stones and big mac truck
of state laws - S Jam (deceased)
I am against the drugs the pharmaceutical companies trot out. Mainly
because I know of the horrors that go into their research and
development and the mind set of chemicals = money = marketing = big
bucks profiit.
Better be to use the healing forces of Nature, Love and Kindness, all
too lacking and not cost effective in modern day health care.
A vaccine is not really a chemical. It is the distorted or inert virus
that causes the body's immune system to build up antibodies against
the real virus. The Medical Biologist in me wakes up and says: But
hey, we can do a recombinant RNA to the lymphocyte that will produce
its own vaccine (at a faction of the cost) no problem. It's the same
guy who thinks growing human ears on mice is cool (not cruel) and just
loves the idea of GM tomatoes and one stop seed grain. The Computer
Programmer in me that has seen a bit of niffy code wipe out a hard
disk is neatly gagged and bound in the corner. Trouble is I am 20
years behind the times and who knows what "they" have been cooking up!
As for dealing with the State, well here in the UK I am a bobby hat
just off the underside of the train from Songat, no speakee da
English, devout Sheetie, and is black (if you make any trouble and
then I take you to court and sue off yer sorry ass). Trouble is I
can't do the accent or keep a straight face. Never mind I will get the
milk vouchers one day !
Must rerun the Ali G video again.
Leotine
Cerberus <-^->
correctly. Hehehehehe <sniff> <cough>. Pass me the Ease-a-Cold.
--
Cerberus <-^-> ICQ 164584935
"We are cups, constantly and quietly being filled. The trick is, knowing how
to tip ourselves over and let the beautiful stuff out."
"Brian Garrett" <mgy...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:001101c22aa1$d8d31a90$b4d90444@Fnord...
Cerberus <-^->
Tried a little research on your behalf. At first glance doesn't seem very
supporting.
Also you might try to contact Dr. Andrew Wakefield at the International
Child Development Resource Centre in Florida who seems to be the authority
on MMR and Autism. He was the first to suggest a link between MMR and Autism
developmental problems apparently.
--
Cerberus <-^-> ICQ 164584935
"We are cups, constantly and quietly being filled. The trick is, knowing how
to tip ourselves over and let the beautiful stuff out."
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/default.htm
http://www.who.int/vaccines-diseases/mmrautism.shtml
http://www.who.int/vaccines-diseases/safety/infobank/mmr.shtml
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
http://www.thelancet.com/search/search.isa
http://bmj.com/cgi/search?author1=&author2=&titleabstract=&fulltext=autism+v
accine&resourcetype=1%2C2%2C3%2C4%2C10&fmonth=Jan&fyear=1994&tmonth=Jul&tyea
r=2002&hits=10&sendit=Search&volume=&firstpage=&fdatedef=1+January+1994&tdat
edef=13+July+2002
http://www.autism-spectrum.com/vaccine.htm
http://autism.about.com/library/weekly/aa120501a.htm
Also you might try to contact Dr. Andrew Wakefield at the International
Child Development Resource Centre in Florida who seems to be the authority
on MMR and Autism.
Tamara Eddy
I've read Wakefield's stuff, but I never thought of contacting him directly.
Hmm...
Cerberus <-^-> <cere...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:KJ3Y8.2083$Cq.1...@ozemail.com.au...
Matthew Vincent
wrote:
>Matthew, do you remember being a child in school?
Yes, and my memories aren't pleasant ones.
>Children are the most intolerant, clique-ish, nastiest, cruelest
>group of people there are.
I think that's largely because humans in general are mentally unstable
animals with a potential to look to dominate others, and that
civilised behaviour is something that needs to be learned. I'd
actually like to see more teaching consideration for others as part of
the education system. (It should be secular, of course.)
>(and didn't somebody get nailed to a cross trying to show people how to
>be tolerant and challenge the world view of the status quo?)
Yes, but did he succeed, at least somewhat? Admittedly, most people
today have forgotten what it was that Jesus really stood for, but has
the world been made at least somewhat better by his actions?
Blessed be,
Matthew
Matthew Vincent
wrote:
>I do NOT want you to think that I am trying to invent "a bogus religious
>concern". Unfortunately, being a solitary practitioner for the last 17
>years, I do not have anyone to bounce this problem off of, and like anyone
>in the situation of having to protect their own child from a perceived
>threat, I am too close to the situation. That is why I came here to sound
>out my concerns with others who could be more objective. I have suffered a
>lot of discrimination for my religion, including being accused of doing
>hexes and voodoo, so I do NOT want to open myself or others of this
>religion to any further persecution.
Okay; I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Also, if your concern
genuinely stems out of your religious beliefs, then I apologise for
misreading your intentions. I'm just aware that generally Wiccans and
other Pagans believe in following standard mundane medical procedures,
and that those that believe differently do so for largely
non-religious reasons. At least, I *think* this is the case -- anyone
who thinks I'm in error on this point can feel free to correct me.
As for the issue at hand: if your concerns with the medical side of
the procedure are genuine, can you not get a medical exemption? Or are
you saying that the whole grounds for the way that they interpret
medical exemptions are screwy, because they're biased by the medical
establishment? That there are new findings that they should be
considering, but probably won't? You might want to consider, though,
that the consequences of *not* vaccinating your child could be even
more disasterous than those which you fear might happen if you *do*
vaccinate your child. It's a tough call.
>I do want to thank everyone for their views, both pro and con. I
>would be ignorant indeed if I did not see the value of seeking
>guidance from others more well-versed in law and theology than I.
Yeah, I agree that it's helpful to talk things through. If it would
help, I'd be more than happy to send some healing energy to help with
your children's predicaments, btw.
Blessed be,
Matthew
Songweaver
>
> In the US there are only 3 possible exemptions to the immunization
laws: a)
> religious exemption, b) philisophical exemption, and c) medical
exemption.
>
> medical exemption - you need to have a physician write a letter to the
> school district stating that the child is exempt from receiving
vaccinations
> because to do so would be "detrimental to the health of the child".
(BTW,
> the state law does NOT state HOW detrimental the vaccine must be). The
> doctor must specify which of the vaccines the child is not to receive.
The
> school nurse already implied that she would go after the license of
the
> doctor who writes such a script because she feels that the only
medical
> exemptions should be for "those with autoimmune disorders who REALLY
can't
> handle the vaccine." She left out a range of reactions possible to
the
> vaccines.
Okay, since when did a school nurse's credentials outweigh a doctor's?
I know that school nurses don't have to be RNs, just LVNs, and even an
RN can't overrule a doctor's exemption. I'd try to go for the medical
exemption anyway, since your son did have reactions to other
immunizations, and then go over the school nurse's head to the principal
or the school district itself to get the approval for it. She can't
base a medical exemption on her personal feelings about them. The fact
that your son had reactions to previous immunizations should be more
than enough for a medical exemption.
> Philisophical exemption - The hardest to get. Only 15 states in the
US
> recognise the philisophical exemption. Mine is NOT one of the
fifteen.
Where are you? I'm in Southern California.
> Religious exemption - The easest to get in my state. I am not
dishonest
> enough to "join" a religion for just long enough to get a religious
> exemption through my district, but was looking for what the views of
other
> Wiccans were. I realise that my problem is a philisophical/medical
one, but
> if there were a religious nitch that could be used, it would be far
easier
> to do so. Is it unethical? I have to ask which is more unethical, to
allow
> something that I perceive to be dangerous or to TRY to find a way to
opt out
> of it. Again, I am NOT trying to be dishonest, nor make things harder
for
> Wiccans in general. You would not believe the discrimination I have
been
> through in the last 17 years.
Honey, I'm sure we can believe some of the stuff you've been through.
Why am I still in the broom closet IRL? I live in one of the most
politically conservative places in the country, and I'm not sure how
anyone (other than the few friends and immediate family members who do
know) would react. I don't need my kids putting up with anything more
than they may already get for whatever reason, although I'm sure they
can handle it if anything were to come their way. I really don't think
the religious grounds is the way to approach this, though. Hang in
there, and get that medical exemption. I'll send some positive energy
your way.
Blessings,
Songweaver
Tamara Eddy
with this problem, though. I heard that in your state the children are
required to get 34 vaccinations by the time they get to school.
Thank you for the positive energy. I need to talk to the physician this
week, and can really use all the help I can get.
Tamara
Songweaver <Lady_...@altcastlenet.com> wrote in message
news:agsiv0$oalnn$1...@ID-22610.news.dfncis.de...
Songweaver
>
> I live in New York. I have to admit I wouldn't want to live in
California
> with this problem, though. I heard that in your state the children
are
> required to get 34 vaccinations by the time they get to school.
It's not that many; 5 DTP, 4 polio, 3 hepatitis B, HIB, and MMR. Some
districts are requiring the chicken pox vaccine, but that's just for new
students to the districts. The high school district here in Anaheim is
one of those, which will be interesting when my daughter is old enough
to start junior high; I didn't bother taking her to the doctor for her
very mild case, so there's no way I can prove that she had the disease,
and it's not advised to give the vaccine to someone who already had the
actual disease. I'll deal with that when the time comes, though.
My kids never even had so much as a slight fever with any of the
immunizations, so there was no reason not to continue with them. My
education is in microbiology, and I know that these diseases are still
around and know the harm that can be done by them. For me, the risks
associated with the diseases themselves far outweighed any risk from the
vaccines. That needs to be an individual decision, though, and in your
case I wouldn't subject him to any more.
> Thank you for the positive energy. I need to talk to the physician
this
> week, and can really use all the help I can get.
You got it!!
Blessings,
Songweaver
Gwynyth
> It's not that many; 5 DTP, 4 polio, 3 hepatitis B, HIB, and MMR. Some
> districts are requiring the chicken pox vaccine, but that's just for new
> students to the districts. The high school district here in Anaheim is
> one of those, which will be interesting when my daughter is old enough
> to start junior high; I didn't bother taking her to the doctor for her
> very mild case, so there's no way I can prove that she had the disease,
> and it's not advised to give the vaccine to someone who already had the
> actual disease. I'll deal with that when the time comes, though.
Just for your information, there's a fairly simple blood test that
checks for antibodies. Both my husband and I ended up having the
antibody test to double check whether we'd had chicken pox (neither of
us had, in our cases), but the test itself is pretty quick to get
results back. It should be pretty easy for your daughter's doctor to
check at an appropriate point - if she doesn't have sufficient
antibodies to show up on the test, then she'll be safe to have the
vaccine, and if she has the antibodies, they'll be able to state that
she has them.
Voxwoman
Songweaver wrote:
> Tamara wrote:
>
>>I live in New York. I have to admit I wouldn't want to live in
>>
> California
>
>>with this problem, though. I heard that in your state the children
>>
> are
>
>>required to get 34 vaccinations by the time they get to school.
>>
>
> It's not that many; 5 DTP, 4 polio, 3 hepatitis B, HIB, and MMR. Some
> districts are requiring the chicken pox vaccine, but that's just for new
> students to the districts. The high school district here in Anaheim is
> one of those, which will be interesting when my daughter is old enough
> to start junior high; I didn't bother taking her to the doctor for her
> very mild case, so there's no way I can prove that she had the disease,
> and it's not advised to give the vaccine to someone who already had the
> actual disease. I'll deal with that when the time comes, though.
They should be able to do a blood test to see if she's got antibodies.
That's what they did with me when the Rubella vaccine came out (and I
had already had Rubella, and the vaccine was contraindicated). It may be
something you want to talk to her doctor about at her next check up,
just to get it in her medical records.
And I'm surprised they don't require tetanus vaccines.
-Wendy
Songweaver
Voxwoman wrote:
>
> They should be able to do a blood test to see if she's got antibodies.
> That's what they did with me when the Rubella vaccine came out (and I
> had already had Rubella, and the vaccine was contraindicated). It may
be
> something you want to talk to her doctor about at her next check up,
> just to get it in her medical records.
Oh, I'm well aware of this; however, my daughter seems to have a
pathological fear of doctors. I don't know why, either. It's not like
she's always needing to go in for every little thing, as she's very
healthy and has only gone in for check-ups the past few years. We still
haven't decided if we're gonna pull her from her current private school
for junior high and high school, but we'll have to make that decision in
the next year; she'll be in 5th grade in the fall, and in 6th grade
we'll have her take the test for the GATE school my son attends and go
from there.
> And I'm surprised they don't require tetanus vaccines.
That's the "T" in DTP. Tetanus shots only need to be given every 7 to
10 years, and they only really require proof of all immunizations up to
age 5. I had to give each school a copy of my kids' immunization record
before they started kindergarten/1st grade (both my older kids changed
schools between kindergarten and grade 1), and when my son enrolled in
his current school I had to give them a copy of his record (showing his
last tetanus at age 12). My youngest hasn't even started preschool
yet - she's only 3 - and I'm in the process of getting her medical
records updated and sent to her new doctor. I'm behind on her
immunizations, but she's gonna get caught up on those in the next couple
months.
Blessings,
Songweaver
Blessings,
Songweaver
Voxwoman
Songweaver wrote:
> Voxwoman wrote:
>
>>They should be able to do a blood test to see if she's got antibodies.
>>That's what they did with me when the Rubella vaccine came out (and I
>>had already had Rubella, and the vaccine was contraindicated). It may
>>
> be
>
>>something you want to talk to her doctor about at her next check up,
>>just to get it in her medical records.
>>
>
> Oh, I'm well aware of this; however, my daughter seems to have a
> pathological fear of doctors. I don't know why, either. It's not like
> she's always needing to go in for every little thing, as she's very
> healthy and has only gone in for check-ups the past few years. We still
> haven't decided if we're gonna pull her from her current private school
> for junior high and high school, but we'll have to make that decision in
> the next year; she'll be in 5th grade in the fall, and in 6th grade
> we'll have her take the test for the GATE school my son attends and go
> from there.
>
>
>>And I'm surprised they don't require tetanus vaccines.
>>
>
> That's the "T" in DTP.
D'oh... <blush> We just went through a tetanus scare here with my (soon
to be 40) husband, because he whacked himself in the face with a pair of
pliers (long story) and needed 4 stitches. But he had a booster 3 years
ago, so he was OK. They said in the ER that it's every 5 years...
-Wendy
Gwynyth
> D'oh... <blush> We just went through a tetanus scare here with my (soon
> to be 40) husband, because he whacked himself in the face with a pair of
> pliers (long story) and needed 4 stitches. But he had a booster 3 years
> ago, so he was OK. They said in the ER that it's every 5 years...
The way I've heard it is that it depends a bit on what your lifestyle is
like - if you're likely to be coming into regular contact with nails or
other potential sources of puncture wounds, 5 years is highly
recommended. If you're not very likely to come into contact with such
things, 7-10 years is fine.
I did a lot of horseback riding when I was in my teens (I was at the
barn 6 days a week for about 5 years running) and had my tetanus booster
promptly every 5 years because I was regularly near areas with old nails
and other things that can cause deep puncture wounds. I then didn't
bother with another booster in college, until I went to work on an
archaeological dig one summer, for the same reason. (That'd be summer of
95)
Since then, though, I've been doing the mostly being indoors or in very
well maintained outdoor places thing (parks, sidewalks, etc, where I can
see any objects clearly before I step on them) and probably won't bother
with another booster for another few years unless something changes
really drastically in my lifestyle and choices.
Tetanus is also a *lot* less likely unless you get an actual puncture
wound - the actual tetanus bacteria only thrives in anaerobic
environments, so it grows really happily in a puncture wound where the
area closer to the surface has healed/pressed together.
A superfical skin cut or scrape, even if it needs stitches, is not as
good an environment for tetanus by a long shot (though, if they're in
doubt, tetanus is nasty enough they'll probably take preventative
measures anyway.)