Re: Why was Jesus crucified?
VtSkier
> On Mar 31, 12:11 pm, VtSkier <VtSk...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Mar 31, 10:42 am, Robert Epstein <vze25...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Anyone who actually reads the Talmud and the writings of Maimonides,
>>>>> for instance, knows that Judaism is very strongly racist, more
>>>>> strongly than any other religion or belief system on earth. If you
>>>>> deny that, you are either ignorant or a lying demagogue yourself. I
>>>>> presume the latter. Anyone who tries to reason with the Jews on this
>>>>> newsgroup, knows how demented they are and completely incapable of
>>>>> dialogue or reason. All they do is present deadening dogma meant to
>>>>> intimidate.
>>>> Okay, pj, I don't want to intimidate you, although I'm sure that would
>>>> be impossible anyway. Let's "reason" together, as you request above.
>>>> Give me a single quote from the Talmud that is racist, and give me one
>>>> example of racism in Judaism. I'm not asking you to review your entire
>>>> argument, which I apparently missed. How about just one piece of
>>>> evidence to show that you have something to back up your view. Is that
>>>> asking too much?
>>>> Now I will freely admit that there is institutional racism in the
>>>> treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli government. I consider
>>>> that more of a horrible political situation than anything else, which
>>>> needs to be corrected. And there are definitely some Jews that are
>>>> racists, just as there are racists in every community. But show me that
>>>> Judaism itself is "strongly racist" as you assert above, and "more
>>>> strongly than any other religion or belief system on earth" as you say
>>>> above. Just give an illustration of each of those assertions, so we can
>>>> both be reasonable and talk about evidence instead of mere belief.
>>>> Robert
>>>> - - - - - - - - - -
>>> All "published" Jews think there is something special about Jews vis-a-
>>> vis the "Jewish soul." The literature commpares the souls of
>>> Gentiles to the souls of animals, by comparison to the souls of Jews.
>>> You may or may not know the doctrine of the five levels of soul:
>>> Ruah, Nefesh, Neshamah, Chayah, and Yechidah. JHVH only exists within
>>> this "Jewish soul," and so Gentiles can not know JHVH in the way that
>>> Jews can. Although, JHVH is unquiqely the "Jewish G-D," he governs
>>> all, and all must be obedient to JHVH, even though they cannot have
>>> same intimate relationship to JHVH that Jews can. The Noahide Laws
>>> enforce this unbalanced state of affairs. The Gentiles, to avoid
>>> destruction, must acknowledge the Jewish G-D and avoid worshipping or
>>> even achkonwledging any other God, including a God that might be
>>> unique to the particular Gentiles. The Gentile nation must adopt a
>>> judicial system that enforces the exclusive belief in the Jewish G-D,
>>> thus destroying the separation of church and state. Now here's the
>>> kicker: a Public Law was passed by Congress in 1991 honoring Rebbe
>>> Schneerson on his birthday and proclaiming the Noahide Laws in
>>> principle within the United States, thus destroying American
>>> democracy, in principle. The only thing that has saved us is the
>>> death of Rebbe Schneerson, which extinguished the possibility that he
>>> could be regarded as the Messiah. Otherwise, we might have a Jewish
>>> theocracy today, instead of an American democracy. This needs looking
>>> into, but I believe we came as close to that dire end as to a literal
>>> end during the Cuban Missle Crisis. We have only the true G-D of
>>> Israel to thank for extinguishing the Antichrist, Rebbe Scheerson,
>>> before he could rise to power.
>> Dear saint7peter,
>> Could you please refer me to a website which outline
>> what you have commented on above. I'd like to read
>> about this event without your (well-meaning)
>> editorializing. I'd like to read the law itself.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> URL: http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=106&Parent=88
>
> Public Law 102-14
> 102d CONGRESS, 1st Session
> H. J. RES. 104
> JOINT RESOLUTION
>
> To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day , U.S.A. '.
> Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values
> and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which
> our great Nation was founded;
> Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of
> society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the
> Seven Noahide Laws;
> Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of
> civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos;
> Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of
> these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and
> threaten the fabric of civilized society;
> Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the
> citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit
> these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the
> generations of the future;
>
>
> Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical
> values and principles throughout the world;
> Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch
> movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth
> birthday falls on March 26, 1991;
>
>
> Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, `the rebbe,' this,
> his ninetieth year will be seen as one of `education and giving,' the
> year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to
> the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws;
>
> and Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor
> signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state:
> Now, therefore, be it
> Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
> States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the
> start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of
> the worldwide Lubavitch movement, is designated as `Education Day,
> U.S.A. '. The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling
> upon the people of the United States to observe such day with
> appropriate ceremonies and activities.
>
>
> Approved March 20, 1991. Signed by George Bush, President of the
> United States of America
Thank you. I'm adding another cross post to alt.religion.unitarian-univ
and see what further comment we can get. While I don't trust
anything promoted by the neo-conservative movement, this is not
as worrisome as other things that are happening in the U.S. I've
also trimmed alt.philosophy.zen on the theory that they might
not want to hear about this, or maybe they already know all there
is to know about it. At any rate, my newsreader wouldn't let me
simply add another address.
Gene Douglas
> saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Mar 31, 12:11 pm, VtSkier <VtSk...@nospam.net> wrote:
> >> saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Mar 31, 10:42 am, Robert Epstein <vze25...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>> saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
(...)
> > Approved March 20, 1991. Signed by George Bush, President of the
> > United States of America
>
> Thank you. I'm adding another cross post to alt.religion.unitarian-univ
> and see what further comment we can get. While I don't trust
> anything promoted by the neo-conservative movement, this is not
> as worrisome as other things that are happening in the U.S. I've
> also trimmed alt.philosophy.zen on the theory that they might
> not want to hear about this, or maybe they already know all there
> is to know about it. At any rate, my newsreader wouldn't let me
> simply add another address.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Go to: http://unitarian-universalist.wetpaint.com/page/A-index and
find "Atonement," and "Azazel." See the comments at the bottom of the
page. Then go to "C Index" and see Crucifixion.
If ancient Semites would place their sins on a goat in a ritual of
Azazel, and drive it into the desert or throw it over a cliff, then
why not automate the system, so you don't have to do it every year?
Gene Douglas
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit
Don Stockbauer
Why was Jesus crucified?
*****************************
He owed back taxes?
m...@privacy.net
Don Stockbauer wrote:
>Why was Jesus crucified?
>
>He owed back taxes?
Do you know what happens if you don't pay your excorcism bill?
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You get reposessed.
Day Brown
his crucifixion to fulfill Essene prophecy. Judas was his front man,
and bribed the Roman soldiers so Jesus could be taken down off the
cross before he died.
Gene Douglas
Of course, that's a very entertaining work of fiction. Nobody knows
in detail exactly what happened then. Even the parts that were known
have been lost. The texts that remain, dating from the fourth
century, are unlike one another, having been copied by hand, and
showing evidence of change for doctrinal reasons. So we have Jesus
rising into the air in one gospel but not in another, though it should
have been important enough you'd think all would have mentioned it.
However, it does help to explain why there is no mention of his works
after the date of the crucifixion, or of his dying 30 or 40 years
later.
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=227
http://www.thenazareneway.com/textual_analysis/most_notable_corruptions.htm
http://unitarian-universalist.wetpaint.com/page/T-Index
ishta...@ntlworld.com
His tomb is there.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/57466/thread/1191267990/last-1191267990/Sex+Scandal
Gene Douglas
<ishtar.c...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Jesus was not crucified, you imbeciles. He died of old age in Kashmir.
According to the Christian religion, Jesus was supposed to be
crucified. If so, then it would be foolish to blame anybody for doing
it, as they were only doing the will of God.
Then, considering that Jesus was reported to have said, "My God, why
have you forsaken me?" that would suggest that he didn't intend to be
crucified, and the whole thing was an accident.
It would also suggest that he was one person, and God was a seperate
person. Otherwise, why would he be talking to himself?
VtSkier
> On Apr 7, 5:01 pm, "ishtar.c...@ntlworld.com"
> <ishtar.c...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Jesus was not crucified, you imbeciles. He died of old age in Kashmir.
>> His tomb is there.http://www.network54.com/Forum/57466/thread/1191267990/last-119126799...
Gene, aren't you in the wrong newsgroup?
> According to the Christian religion, Jesus was supposed to be
> crucified. If so, then it would be foolish to blame anybody for doing
> it, as they were only doing the will of God.
>
> Then, considering that Jesus was reported to have said, "My God, why
> have you forsaken me?" that would suggest that he didn't intend to be
> crucified, and the whole thing was an accident.
>
> It would also suggest that he was one person, and God was a seperate
> person. Otherwise, why would he be talking to himself?
I thought he died of old age in the south of France
(the Riviera?).
Oh, I see, you cross posted back to the original.
Terry Cross
Because he was both man and god - as are you.
TCross
Linda Lee
He was not praying to God; he was quoting Psalms as a means of
identifying who he was: Ps. 22:1 "My God, my God, why hast thou
forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words
of my roaring?"
The entire 22nd Psalm is about the Messiah and his crucifixion.
VtSkier
Uhm, aren't the psalms prayers? So what if he
was (purportedly) quoting a psalm if the words
were appropriate to his condition?
Day Brown
There is no rational answer to your question.
Gene Douglas
>
> - Show quoted text -
So we are to have faith with no reason to do so? What has the
Catholic church been doing all these centuries, in creating and then
tampering with the Nicene creed? And why have protestant churches
slavishly followed their dogma? What were the Nicene debates about,
if not about reason? Are we to have faith in their conclusions, if
their reasoning was for naught?
If my faith is without reason, then why not have faith and be a Hindu,
Bhuddist or Muslim? And why rely on people parsing every phrase in
the new and old testament, if none of that matters anyway?
Gene Douglas
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here is the 22nd psalm. It says nothing about a messiah. This is
David, writing a poem in which he speaks to God. The "I" is David, or
any person reading it. Nowhere, here or elsewhere, does it say that
David was a prophet.
Apparently Jesus would have been quoting this verse, though if I were
quoting it, I would not be proving I am God. It may be, however, that
it was not intended as a prayer, so far as absolute interpretation
with certainty is concerned. It may also be that scribes in later
centuries inserted that statement in order to increase his appearance
of authenticity.
Psalm 22
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel. [a]
4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8 "He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him."
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.
10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me [b] in the dust of death.
16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced [c] my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.
19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save [d] me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.
23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you [e] will I fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.
saint...@hotmail.com
Well, Gene, I think you will admit there are some pretty good hints,
but I agree with you 100% that if He was trying to give a proof that
He was Messiah or God, that proof fails entirely. There is nothing
here but poetic innuendo. Linda don't think too good, if you know
what I mean. Brainwashing rots brain cells, I guess.
Don Stockbauer
*******************************************
Because the Global Brain hadn't locked-in yet back then, and the Earth
was a much more barbaric place?
Gene Douglas
>
> - Show quoted text -
I was thinking, if I were being tortured to death, would I quote
scripture at the time? It seems really, really unlikely, especially
if I had just been scourged for half a day, and had then been forced
to carry a beam weighing a hundred pounds up a mountain. The
likelihood that scribes inserted it centuries later, to support their
doctrine, seems all the more likely.
saint...@hotmail.com
> scripture at the time? It seems really, really unlikely, especially
> if I had just been scourged for half a day, and had then been forced
> to carry a beam weighing a hundred pounds up a mountain. The
> likelihood that scribes inserted it centuries later, to support their
> doctrine, seems all the more likely.
Yeah, but you're not Him, i.e. you're not a spiritual master capable
of doing miracles such as raising the dead. Nonetheless, I don't
think being spiritually detached means that you become a mechanistic
cyborg without real human feelings. Linda, I believe, has a dearth of
real human feelings, but that comes from a complete lack of spiritual
attainment.
Xan
<saint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f3bc6e7b-39f4-4ed9...@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
Yeah, but you're not Him, i.e. you're not a spiritual master capable
of doing miracles such as raising the dead. Nonetheless, I don't
think being spiritually detached means that you become a mechanistic
cyborg without real human feelings. Linda, I believe, has a dearth of
real human feelings, but that comes from a complete lack of spiritual
attainment.
>
You mean REAL human feelings like selfishness - lust - greed - hypocrisy -
betrayal - vanity - materialism - bigotry - falsehood - cruelty - violence -
injustice - these kind of REAL human feelings?
Give me the mechanistic cyborg to a REAL human any day!
Xan
saint...@hotmail.com
> <saint7pe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
No, that's not what I meant, but it is obviously what you are all
about. It is truly amazing to me how many anti-humanitarians there
seem to be. Perhaps that is the simple explanation for the false God
of the Old Testament. He is simply the expression of a race of anti-
humanitarians.
Xan
<saint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cae95f0a-89a9-4d73...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
The false God of the Old Testament is indeed the very Father of which your
Jesus spoke!
"You will only find my Father in heaven through me" he often stated.
So you cannot embrace Jesus without embracing the more important person -
who is the Father. And indeed you cannot embrace the Father and Son without
also wholeheartedly embracing the Spirit.
This is if indeed you wish to embrace any of them! ;)
Xan
saint...@hotmail.com
Not my Jesus. I worship Jehoshua Moshiach, the King of the Kingdom of
G-D. Jesus is your invention.
> "You will only find my Father in heaven through me" he often stated.
> So you cannot embrace Jesus without embracing the more important person -
> who is the Father. And indeed you cannot embrace the Father and Son without
> also wholeheartedly embracing the Spirit.
> This is if indeed you wish to embrace any of them! ;)
> Xan
Jehoshua said that the Jews, of which I presume you are one, had never
seen the Father's shape nor heard His voice at any time, so the Father
is NOT the false God whose backside Moses saw. That false God is a
demon by any sane standard. I indeed worship the Father, whose name
is BABAJI. Jehoshua called Him ABBA. In modern times, Paramahansa
Yogananda introduced us to the Father in his famous book, The
Autobiography of a Yogi. The Holy Spirit is yet another avatar named
KRISHNA. If you want to use the name JESUS, you can use it in this
context, as the third member of this Trinity of Divine Avatars, each
one of them fully real and yet fully Divine. Your false God is
neither real nor Divine.
Xan
<saint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f99bf81e-a966-403d...@a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
>
Yes Krishna the Spirit is our Avatar.
So when you stated Jesus was our God - you lied.
And when you said our false God was a demon - you said this of Krishna.
So be more careful in future what you say.
Krishna has ears you know. He can hear.
Xan
Xan
He is so creative - intelligent - imaginative and has such a great sense of
humour.
We far prefer him to the other two.
You as a human seem to be trying to get Krishna to fit into your
Christian/Judaism teachings - and so you place him in the Christan-Judaism
trinity - but this is not really where he belongs.
He is very much a standalone artist.
We do not go much for Sons who say they are Kings are try to outdo their
Fathers.
The Son is always the Prince - the Father is the King.
Krishna on the other hand laughs a lot about it all.
The Angels prefer Krishna as well.
Xan
saint...@hotmail.com
Thanks for identifying yourself. Now piss off.
Xan
There are quite a few Gods wandering around considering the vastness of life
space and time.
As a human of course you cling to your faith and belief as it is all you
have. You do not know anything more or anything else. And you are a
follower not a leader. You want someone to believe IN - you do not wish to
be a Leader or King yourself. You are like the billions and billions of
sheep that do occupy vast areas of space.
Leaders like Krishna are hard to find. Those who are much loved and who
people believe in and wish to follow rather than people like you who can
only follow.
Krishna was always the most popular and by far the most loved and it is a
real pity that on Earth so much attention is given to other religious
stories and so many go on and on and on about either the Babaji bit or the
Jehoshua bit - and even you put Krishna almost as a side note - not giving
him due credit at all.
Shame really.
Xan
Xan
<saint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0222047f-7a07-42dc...@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for identifying yourself. Now piss off.
>
And your above words identify you as certainly NOT a follower of the Great
Divine Lord Krishna!
HA HA!
Caught you out eh!!!!
Funny how you religious nuts are all the same. You all profess to be so
loving and kind but you are not are you? You are as rude and mean and anyone
else. But with the addition of also being a hypocrite.
Xan
Xan
<saint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0222047f-7a07-42dc...@j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
We do apologize. Really we do.
We know how you humans are very small and very frail and very vulnerable and
how you cling to your religions - and how some of you like to use the right
words and right names to make sure you get it "right".
We are sorry if we seemed to mock you - which indeed we did - and we do
apologize.
What you do believe is admirable - at least you have made SOME attempt to at
least get the names right! Unlike others who go on and on about Jesus -
when as you say - there is no such person. And calling Babaji by his name
is commendable - rather than those who shortcut and use the word "God" when
there are several Gods so this does look very stupid.
Out of all the religious people we have come across - you at least have the
intelligence to do a bit of research into the actual truth of this religion
and at least have made the effort to at least get the names right.
OK you should not knock and belittle others - and refer to other people's
gods as demons - this is not in the spirit of the thing but then you are
only human and you will sin and make mistakes and err.
If you did not you would be a God yourself eh?
Xan
saint...@hotmail.com
Indeed, just as there are antichrist Jews, there are antichrist
Hindus. As for your pretense at being ET, forget it, although I don't
doubt that there are antichrist ET's, as well. Everyone must choose
whether to accept the true savior of mankind or reject Him. Indeed,
many hate mankind, even though they be human. You obviously have
nothing to offer but hate, and so I will not be responding to anything
more that you post. Over and out to you.
Day Brown
>> Dude? Read St. Paul. Christianity is about faith. Not reason.
>> There is no rational answer to your question.- Hide quoted text -
> So we are to have faith with no reason to do so? What has the
> Catholic church been doing all these centuries, in creating and then
> tampering with the Nicene creed? And why have protestant churches
> slavishly followed their dogma? What were the Nicene debates about,
> if not about reason? Are we to have faith in their conclusions, if
> their reasoning was for naught?
>
> If my faith is without reason, then why not have faith and be a Hindu,
> Bhuddist or Muslim? And why rely on people parsing every phrase in
> the new and old testament, if none of that matters anyway?
Its not upta me. The emperor called the bishops together to work out a
common doctrine. When they failed, he butchered them all, and sent in
another set. If you want sound reasoning, become Aristotelean. They at
least, do not butcher each other over doctrinal differences.
Mite read Gibbon, "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire". He begins
with the fall of the republic into tyranny, which happens at the same
time the freedom of paganism began to fall into absolutism.
Gibbon:"The Roman people all believed religion was true, the
philosophers all thot it was false, and the politicians all knew it was
useful." Christianity was the most useful of all.
Gibbon reported that when Constantine converted the temple of Jupiter in
Rome into a church, he first cleansed it of all idolatry before handing
it over to the bishops (who he chose). Gibbon reports that this added up
to 6 tons of gold, shipped to build his new capitol. The conversion of
the rest of the empire was a no brainer.
The reason that banks still look like Greek temples is that Greek
temples were the safety deposit boxes for the family silver, which was
gotten out for weddings and funerals. The core of the Parthenon was a
bank vault. The pagan temples were family businesses, with the
priesthood handed down in the family line.
But Christianity, of all religions, allowed Constantine to pick the
bishops. thus began the tyranny of church and state. No self respecting
religion would permit this. Not that people were surprised. When Polemus
circulated his criticism of well known pagan prophets & priests, people
were just appalled. Only Christians did that sort of thing- polemics.
Most of the early debates were between the followers of Bishop Arian,
who held that Jesus was born into godhood, whereas the followers of
Bishop Anesthasius held that Jesus was with Jehovah at the beginning of
Creation. The former were also more gnostic, and here the Nag Hammadi
texts have shed light. That Coptic tradition held that each man can
become a Jesus. Not the kind of thing an emperor wants to hear, so it
was very vigorously suppressed.
I forget the name of the French city, but Gibbon reports that 40,000
followers of Bishop Arian were trapped there and butchered by the
followers of Bishop Anesthasius, killing more Christians in a single day
that all the Roman emperors had in 200 years of persecution.
The wars between the Catholics and protestants were nothing new. This
did not happen with the pagans. They never claimed to have a truth that
the whole world should follow. Gibbon noted that a pagan could enter any
temple of any cult and feel the presence of the divine without worry
about whether he had the name right.
In more recent times, archeologists have looked at the graves of slaves
after the conversion to Christianity. The skeletons were in far worse
condition than under pagan masters. The slave drivers apparently felt
that if Jesus was going to reward the slaves in heaven, there was no
need to do so on Earth.
I could go on, but am too disgusted.
RaaN
There is no God you dupe.
--
RaaN
Terry Cross
Gibbon had some amusing things to say of Judaism, as well. For
example:
Humanity is shocked at the recital of the horrid cruelties which [the
Jews] committed in the cities of Egypt, of Cyprus, and of Cyrene,
where they dwelt in treacherous friendship with the unsuspecting
natives;¹ and we are tempted to applaud the severe retaliation which
was exercised by the arms of legions against a race of fanatics, whose
dire and credulous superstition seemed to render them the implacable
enemies not only of the Roman government, but also of humankind. -
Womersley, ed., Decline and Fall, vol. 1, ch. XVI, p. 516.
Gibbon's first footnote here reveals even more about why his
detractors reacted so harshly: "In Cyrene, [the Jews] massacred
220,000 Greeks; in Cyprus, 240,000; in Egypt, a very great multitude.
Many of these unhappy victims were sawed asunder, according to a
precedent to which David had given the sanction of his examples. The
victorious Jews devoured the flesh, licked up the blood, and twisted
the entrails like a girdle around their bodies. see Dion Cassius
l.lxviii, p. 1145."
We must admit that Gibbon was colorful. But did he write the truth?
TCross
^@%>---*=#
"RaaN" <raan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5f34245-9f03-4b0b...@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
hey, let these guys believe in god.
these are the types of personalities
that if they have nothing like a god
to believe in they then turn to practices
like vivisectionism
Gene Douglas
Muslims, Christians fighting with Muslims, Catholics fighting with
protestants, Evangelicals fighting with mainline Christians. This is
the first time I've seen Christians fighting with Krishnas, or even
imagined that either would waste their breath. Shows how little I
know.
Each of you proclaim your faith, not your information or your
reasoning, in increasingly insulting arbitrary statements, and I'll
just sit back and watch.
> Xan- Hide quoted text -
saint...@hotmail.com
> Hmm. I've seen Christians fighting with Jews, Jews fighting with
> Muslims, Christians fighting with Muslims, Catholics fighting with
> protestants, Evangelicals fighting with mainline Christians. This is
> the first time I've seen Christians fighting with Krishnas, or even
> imagined that either would waste their breath. Shows how little I
> know.
>
> Each of you proclaim your faith, not your information or your
> reasoning, in increasingly insulting arbitrary statements, and I'll
> just sit back and watch.
You bear false witness, like the liar that you are.
jerry warner
Gene Douglas wrote:
> On Apr 7, 5:01 pm, "ishtar.c...@ntlworld.com"
> <ishtar.c...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Jesus was not crucified, you imbeciles. He died of old age in Kashmir.
> > His tomb is there.http://www.network54.com/Forum/57466/thread/1191267990/last-119126799...
>
> According to the Christian religion, Jesus was supposed to be
> crucified. If so, then it would be foolish to blame anybody for doing
> it, as they were only doing the will of God.
>
> Then, considering that Jesus was reported to have said, "My God, why
> have you forsaken me?" that would suggest that he didn't intend to be
> crucified, and the whole thing was an accident.
>
He said that, supposedly, to show he was mortal (soon to be
transcendent) and to show that God had not in fact abandoned
him, ie. that there is a God! He was ressurected.
Now what I want to know is, what in Jesus Christ Fucky Hell
has any of this got to do with anything, on this Earth?
These are spiritual matters, not material matters. God is
spiritual not material. Jesus was supposed to be part of both.
That is the whole point (and lesson) of what God is and is supposed to be: spiritual
TRANSCENDENT into material!
Only God can do this. That is what defines God. Doubt it?
Then create anything material out of anything spiritual ...
and call me when youve done it!
We will check your progress in 10,000 years.
Good night Irene.
saint...@hotmail.com
Suggestion and innuendo is all that you have. Things may be just what
they seem here. It was not the primary will of God that Jesus should
be crucified, but only a contingency plan set in motion by the
decision of the Jews to reject the King of the Kingdom of G-D, which
is to say the New Covenant with the House of Judah and the House of
Israel, ala Jeremiah 31:30-31. The Jews remained stuck on the Torah
of Moses and to this day have not been able to accept the New
Covenant.
When Jesus cried out to another, He only cried to "My God," or "Eli,"
which is a fairly noncommittal term. It is consistent with His
worship of "the Father."
Gene Douglas
>
> - Show quoted text -
It's also possible that he never said it at all, and that it was
inserted into the text centuries afterward.
And it's possible that he was a mortal man, and that he hated what was
happening to him, believing that God should have protected him after
all the good work he had done. And it is possible that he did not
expect to be crucified, and was surprised by the outcome.
Gene Douglas
>
> - Show quoted text -
This is antisemitism at its finest. It gives us the chance to blame
somebody for something we say should not have happened. If Jesus died
for our sins, and came to earth so that could happen, then his
crucifixion was the will of God. If we say it should not have
happened, then we are saying the will of God should not have been
carried out. If we are saying that God did not want Jesus to be
crucified but that he was, then we get to blame Jews for violating
God's will, and we are saying that Jesus should not have died for our
sins.
Which Jews do we blame?
1. About a hundred who were standing in the square before Pilate's
balcony?
2. All Jews in Jerusalem for Passover, including those who had
attended his sermons, but were not at the square that day?
3. All Jews in Judeah that day?
4. All Jews in Judeah and anywhere else in the world, and all of
their descendents for a hundred generations?
Oh, what the heck, let's blame all of them, and that way we don't miss
anybody.
saint...@hotmail.com
I blame most of all a liar like you with such loose lips as to call
any argument against Jews antisemitism. You're antidemocratic,
antihuman, and antidisestablismentarianist.
jerry warner
Gene Douglas wrote:
agree but he has a vested interest in his pronouncements,
which probably are not even very crucial to him personally,
except on Tuesadays btwn 2 and 4pm! Jew Time!
shalom
.
Gene Douglas
>
> - Show quoted text -
You mean I'm an Episcopalean, who favors keeping the Episcopal church
as the state church of England? Oh, gee, why not? I take it you must
be a disestablishmentarianist then, and you have some interest in
offical matters in England. And may I compliment you on your spelling.
saint...@hotmail.com
Yes, you may even lay down and take my aching member deep inside one
of your waiting orifices.
Day Brown
"String him up!", When an Arab mob gathers, or writes the paper wanting
justice they say, "Behead him!", And we see Jesus himself discuss an
incident about Jews who say:"Stone Her!"
The thing is, every culture has its own values regarding capital
punishment. So, when a mob gathers outside the office of Pontius Pilot
and hollers:"Crucify Him!", they are Romans, not Jews.
Terry Cross
> When an American mob gathers outside the courthouse, they holler,
> "String him up!",
In your fantasies and on TeeVee. But you represent that is reality -
and you are out of touch.
> When an Arab mob gathers, or writes the paper wanting
> justice they say, "Behead him!",
In your fantasies and on TeeVee. But you represent that is reality -
and you are out of touch.
> And we see Jesus himself discuss an
> incident about Jews who say:"Stone Her!"
Read the Talmud. Stoning, burning, poisoning, beheading, and
throttling were all Jewish forms of death sentence.
http://come-and-hear.com/editor/capunish_1.html
> The thing is, every culture has its own values regarding capital
> punishment. So, when a mob gathers outside the office of Pontius Pilot
> and hollers:"Crucify Him!", they are Romans, not Jews.
There were no Roman mobs in Jerusalem - historically. The only Romans
were soldiers.
TCross
Terry Cross
Why should any Jews be blamed for the Crucifixion of Jesus, except
those who were involved? However, the Jews who wrote the Talmud wrote
so brutally of Jesus, they obviously wished they could do it
themselves. So also those the Toldeth Jeshua and kept it alive for
2000 years. All those too seem afflicted with immeasurable hostility
toward Jesus.
TCross
saint...@hotmail.com
Every Jew bears the guilt and shame that their God killed Jesus, the
only true Messiah of the Jews and Humanity. You as a non-Jew cannot
say this, but I as a Jew can say it.
Gene Douglas
> On May 17, 2:47 pm, Gene Douglas <new...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 16, 11:50 pm, saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On May 16, 8:04 pm, Gene Douglas <new...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 15, 10:23 am, saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 15, 2:03 am, jerry warner <"warne(ns)"@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Gene Douglas wrote:
> > > > > > > On Apr 7, 5:01 pm, "ishtar.c...@ntlworld.com"
> > > > > > > <ishtar.c...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
(...)
> > > > Which Jews do we blame?
>
> > > > 1. About a hundred who were standing in the square before Pilate's
> > > > balcony?
>
> > > > 2. All Jews in Jerusalem for Passover, including those who had
> > > > attended his sermons, but were not at the square that day?
>
> > > > 3. All Jews in Judeah that day?
>
> > > > 4. All Jews in Judeah and anywhere else in the world, and all of
> > > > their descendents for a hundred generations?
>
> > > > Oh, what the heck, let's blame all of them, and that way we don't miss
> > > > anybody.
>
> > > I blame most of all a liar like you with such loose lips as to call
> > > any argument against Jews antisemitism. You're antidemocratic,
> > > antihuman, and antidisestablismentarianist.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > You mean I'm an Episcopalean, who favors keeping the Episcopal church
> > as the state church of England? Oh, gee, why not? I take it you must
> > be a disestablishmentarianist then, and you have some interest in
> > offical matters in England. And may I compliment you on your spelling.
>
> Yes, you may even lay down and take my aching member deep inside one
> of your waiting orifices.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
O.K., so we have identified a bona fide troll now.
Gene Douglas
> On May 17, 10:27 pm, Day Brown <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote:
>
(...)
>
> Read the Talmud. Stoning, burning, poisoning, beheading, and
> throttling were all Jewish forms of death sentence.http://come-and-hear.com/editor/capunish_1.html
Silliniess. They were ancient forms of death sentences. Not limited
to one religion or ethnicity.
>
> > The thing is, every culture has its own values regarding capital
> > punishment. So, when a mob gathers outside the office of Pontius Pilot
> > and hollers:"Crucify Him!", they are Romans, not Jews.
>
> There were no Roman mobs in Jerusalem - historically. The only Romans
> were soldiers.
And don't forget the administrator.
>
> TCross
Gene Douglas
the world wrote the Talmud.
> TCross- Hide quoted text -
Gene Douglas
>
> - Show quoted text -
Isn't this the poster who said he wanted to anally rape me? The
troller? We can assume he doesn't believe anything he says, but wants
to think of something provocative to say. Grade school kids do this,
but most grow out of it.
"Their God killed Jesus?" Doesn't God have the right to kill anybody
he wants? Wouldn't that mean He bears the guilt, not people who had
no control over His will?
Ed B.
[SNIPPAGE of all unecessary verbiage]
>
> Why should any Jews be blamed for the Crucifixion of Jesus, except
> those who were involved? However, the Jews who wrote the Talmud wrote
> so brutally of Jesus, they obviously wished they could do it
> themselves. So also those the Toldeth Jeshua and kept it alive for
> 2000 years. All those too seem afflicted with immeasurable hostility
> toward Jesus.
>
> TCross
Perhaps some of that hostility comes from the Christian practice of
executing all those who do not accept Christianity.
--
~)< Love & Peace Ed B.
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who
are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. -Mark Twain
We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association,
covenant to affirm and promote:
the right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our
congregations and in society at large. -Unitarian Universalist 5th
Principle
saint...@hotmail.com
>
> Isn't this the poster who said he wanted to anally rape me? The
> troller? We can assume he doesn't believe anything he says, but wants
> to think of something provocative to say. Grade school kids do this,
> but most grow out of it.
>
> "Their God killed Jesus?" Doesn't God have the right to kill anybody
> he wants? Wouldn't that mean He bears the guilt, not people who had
> no control over His will?
Who gave God the right? You? Then you are responsible. I don't give
your stinking God the right.
VtSkier
"Who gave God the right?"? Then you are of the opinion
that God is a human creation?
saint...@hotmail.com
Of course. I wasn't born yesterday. Moses saw something. In Zen we
call it a "makyo," or devilish illusion. It only dawns when the Mind
is in fact approaching awakening, so it is auspicious, but only if you
understand it in the right way. The God of the Old Testament is just
a potential of human nature. It is like a sexual instinct that
awakened too soon, leaving the host confused and bewildered.
God
<saint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39a6d3ba-82c6-48dd...@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Project your frustrations on someone else, sunshine.
I was only playing around with those Dead Sea sandal wearers when I was
mucking about in the Ark of The Covenant.
Heh.
Had them carrying me around everywhere.
Lol!
--
"In Me I Trust"
saint...@hotmail.com
> <saint7pe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Big mistake. You are not trustworthy, you have no integrity, and you
are as sick as they come.
SkyEyes
And unfortunately for you, he's also very funny.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
saint...@hotmail.com
Only to a sick geek like yourself.
SkyEyes
That statement says *way* more about you than it does about me,
Sparky.
Terry Cross
Pretty funny, all right. And how would that differ from idolatry?
Technically speaking, of course.
TCross
saint...@hotmail.com
Sure. Keep jerking yourself off atheist bastards. Just don't get any
of the slime on me. You're welcome to come all over each other, which
is I guess what this is all about, isn't it? Are you all having a
good circle jerk? Do your sick atheist instincts feel relieved?
Darrell Stec
Sparky huh. Does that mean he is brilliant or static? I know which one I
would pick and it does not begin with the second letter of the alphabet.
> Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
> EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
> skyeyes nine at cox dot net
--
Later,
Darrell Stec dar...@neo.rr.com
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
^@%>---*=#
"Darrell Stec" <darrel...@webpagesorcery.com> wrote in message
news:48326f9c$0$31720$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
it is curious as to how many threads on
uselessnet that no matter what the subject
matter of the thread is or what types of
groups are involved always end up in
back stabbing flames in a decidedly
puerile backwater cesspooling
theater of the absurd.
carry on.
bob young
"Ed B." wrote:
>
> Terry Cross wrote:
> [SNIPPAGE of all unecessary verbiage]
> >
> > Why should any Jews be blamed for the Crucifixion of Jesus, except
> > those who were involved? However, the Jews who wrote the Talmud wrote
> > so brutally of Jesus, they obviously wished they could do it
> > themselves. So also those the Toldeth Jeshua and kept it alive for
> > 2000 years. All those too seem afflicted with immeasurable hostility
> > toward Jesus.
> >
> > TCross
>
> Perhaps some of that hostility comes from the Christian practice of
> executing all those who do not accept Christianity.
Religous beliefs are born of fear and insecurity,
So aggression always follows for anyone who threatens their
primitive concepts.
Mark K. Bilbo
Hm... you came here thinking about a circle jerk?
'Smatter, you pissed you weren't invited?
Boed...@isp.com
> On May 19, 5:25 am, VtSkier <VtSk...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On May 18, 1:42 pm, Gene Douglas <new...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >> Isn't this the poster who said he wanted to anally rape me? The
> > >> troller? We can assume he doesn't believe anything he says, but wants
> > >> to think of something provocative to say. Grade school kids do this,
> > >> but most grow out of it.
>
> > >> "Their God killed Jesus?" Doesn't God have the right to kill anybody
> > >> he wants? Wouldn't that mean He bears the guilt, not people who had
> > >> no control over His will?
>
> > > Who gave God the right? You? Then you are responsible. I don't give
> > > your stinking God the right.
>
> > "Who gave God the right?"? Then you are of the opinion
> > that God is a human creation?
>
> Of course. I wasn't born yesterday. Moses saw something. In Zen we
> call it a "makyo," or devilish illusion.
"Zen"? ROTFL
It only dawns when the Mind
> is in fact approaching awakening, so it is auspicious, but only if you
> understand it in the right way. The God of the Old Testament is just
> a potential of human nature. It is like a sexual instinct that
> awakened too soon, leaving the host confused and bewildered.
So *that's* your problem, your boyfriend got up and went home
before you were fully awake.
"Confused and bewildered"?
NURSE!!