"Beloved" Animal Spirits
tamara
school. We went through an apartment complex that is near my neighborhood. I
saw an orange tabby cat sitting next to a van, and so I called out "Babylove"
toward the cat. (as I have been missing my lost orange tabby for many weeks
now) But The cat only looked puzzled at me though, and as I got closer to the
cat calling "Babylove" it got scared and retreated under the van.
So I squatted down,and I was talking to the cat underneath the van. The cat
was interested and curious toward met, and it surely "looked" like Babylove.
But then I sang the song "oh BabyLove, oh BabyLove" to this cat, and it did not
respond to me at all like my Babylove would have responded.
My "Babylove" loved that song, and she would usually come love on me when I
would sing that song to her.
I thought,... well maybe if she has been hit by a car or something, then she
would not remember the song, and so I continued to talk and to sing to this cat
hoping it was BabyLove and perhaps she just had amnesia.
Finally, I gave up and walked away, as the cat was basically telling me with
it's eyes that I was making a complete idiot out of myself because she was
_Not_ Babylove.
My last look at that cat under the van was in her eyes, I took a long deep look
into that cat's eyes, and although they looked like BabyLove's eyes, there was
something that just wasn't Babylove in those eyes.
I remember that was my last thought about the cat as I walked away, as far as
the eyes just didn't seem right.
So, tonight, Babylove came to me in my dream. I don't remember what I was
dreaming about, but suddenly there was my front porch in my dreamspace, and it
was night time outside. My other cats were all about the front porch in this
dream, and suddenly I noticed the cat that was sitting closest to edge of the
porch was BabyLove!!! Oh I was so excited!! She came home!!!
Then I realised I was dreaming : (
I must have been semi awakened by the excitement I felt when I first saw her,
but at some point, I became aware this was a dream even though I was still in
it.. I specifically noticed BabyLove's eyes....there was no doupt in my mind
when I saw *her* eyes that it was BabyLove, she just has this certain look in
her eyes that always talked to me in sort of a smart elic way (you'd have to
have known her, she didn't put up with much b/s *g* ).
Also, something else I noticed, was like she has white powder sprinkled on her,
it was nighttime in the dream, and so it was noticable in the moonlight, that
she had sort of a white mist to her...
Perhaps she came to visit me one last time to say,
"Hey Moma, __these__ are my eyes, don't mistake them with anybody else again!
pfft!" (that was sort of her personality )
seriously, it did seem like it was "her eyes" that she wanted me to recognize
the most in this visit...
well, I just thought I would share that with ya'll....it's not really a
shamanistic topic, but sort of borders on the fringes of it somewhere ...and I
was wondering about other's experiences with past on animals that they loved
very much.
Tamara
Di-a-rama
"tamara" <magikri...@aol.com> wrote:
> well, I just thought I would share that with ya'll....it's not really a
> shamanistic topic, but sort of borders on the fringes of it somewhere ...and I
> was wondering about other's experiences with past on animals that they loved
> very much.
Hmm. Relationships with animals in both ordinary reality and the other
world seem to be deeply tied to similar principles.... And from the sound
of Flora's posts, her practice is very animal based. I have always loved
animals and have pets at home (2 cats and a dog). I have been called "mama
cat" since I seem to attract all the neighborhood cats to my back yard. The
resident cats don't like that much!
Anyway, I also have a story that ties in a bit with yours and with the other
posts regarding animals which pass on.
I was living in England while they still had animal quarantine laws, so I
had arranged for a house/cat sitter to live in the house, care for the pets,
etc. While I was there, one of my cats (a yellow tabby Tom Cat) became ill.
He had jaundice and was lethargic--it was very mysterious as to what was
going on. Needless to say, I was very distraught and felt very helpless.
This was also a time before I discovered journeying although I already had a
handle on divination and other magick & ritual techniques.
It just so happened that the artist group I belonged to was having a
workshop the same day I found out about my cat's hospitalization. The theme
was to visually interpret the Epic of Gilgamesh. This ties in beautifully
with the Dragon Myth we've been talking about--in Gilgamesh, there is a
beast that is civilized by a woman. Of course there is much more to the
tale, but I really latched on to this part.
When it was time to go into the studio, something kind of took over and I
was painting in a very different style with thoughts of my cat strongly on
my mind and in my heart. The result was an abstract painting of my cat (his
coat, mostly) with the sun and moon watching over him. It was one of those
rare moments where I was actually surprised at what came out (yes, it does
happen!). Somehow, the beast in Gilgamesh was an entry point into the
(other) world where I could commune with my cat. I got the news later that
he was improving.
Unfortunately the effects were temporary. I don't know if what I did
actually had any real effects. But considering how helpless I felt being
3000 miles away as he was dying in the sterile vet's office, somehow what
happened in my studio allowed me to realize on a deeper level that he had to
go. When the news came, I was sad but not surprised. I still have the
painting.
Cheers,
Dianne
tamara
>Date: 11/21/02 10:36 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <BA024BAC.1A6A8%bro...@SPAM.com>
>
>On 11/21/02 4:18 AM, in article 20021121071807...@mb-mg.aol.com,
>"tamara" <magikri...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> well, I just thought I would share that with ya'll....it's not really a
>> shamanistic topic, but sort of borders on the fringes of it somewhere
>...and I
>> was wondering about other's experiences with past on animals that they
>loved
>> very much.
>
>
>Hmm. Relationships with animals in both ordinary reality and the other
>world seem to be deeply tied to similar principles.... And from the sound
>of Flora's posts, her practice is very animal based.
It was surely a refreshing breeze blowing into ars yesterday, to see Flora make
a post, I hope she continues, I have been humbled and inspired many times by
some of her post...espcially pertaining to the animals...and I miss reading her
thoughts..
((*hi Flora, if you are reading this, can you tell I am trying to lure you out
of the shadows ? I miss reading your thoughts, and seeing you yesterday
*really* was like a refreshing breeze blew thru here........I will never forget
how you were so kind and warm with me when I was scared to come out of the
shadows~~soft smile~~))
I have always loved
>animals and have pets at home (2 cats and a dog). I have been called "mama
>cat" since I seem to attract all the neighborhood cats to my back yard. The
>resident cats don't like that much!
>
LOL! Small world!...
seems there are alot of us "moma cats" round here : )
>Anyway, I also have a story that ties in a bit with yours and with the other
>posts regarding animals which pass on.
>
>I was living in England while they still had animal quarantine laws, so I
>had arranged for a house/cat sitter to live in the house, care for the pets,
>etc. While I was there, one of my cats (a yellow tabby Tom Cat) became ill.
>He had jaundice and was lethargic--it was very mysterious as to what was
>going on. Needless to say, I was very distraught and felt very helpless.
>This was also a time before I discovered journeying although I already had a
>handle on divination and other magick & ritual techniques.
>
>It just so happened that the artist group I belonged to was having a
>workshop the same day I found out about my cat's hospitalization. The theme
>was to visually interpret the Epic of Gilgamesh. This ties in beautifully
>with the Dragon Myth we've been talking about--in Gilgamesh, there is a
>beast that is civilized by a woman. Of course there is much more to the
>tale, but I really latched on to this part.
>
>When it was time to go into the studio, something kind of took over and I
>was painting in a very different style with thoughts of my cat strongly on
>my mind and in my heart. The result was an abstract painting of my cat (his
>coat, mostly) with the sun and moon watching over him. It was one of those
>rare moments where I was actually surprised at what came out (yes, it does
>happen!). Somehow, the beast in Gilgamesh was an entry point into the
>(other) world where I could commune with my cat. I got the news later that
>he was improving.
>
that is really neat Dianne, that this spirit of Gilgamesh connected you and
your cat for that moment in time....
It reminds me of "automatic writing" ...but more like "automatic painting"
with alot of energy involved....
even if it was just a moment in time, the fact that he improved somewhat during
that time, seems to suggest that there was a real energy connecting between
you and your cat at that moment.
>Unfortunately the effects were temporary. I don't know if what I did
>actually had any real effects. But considering how helpless I felt being
>3000 miles away as he was dying in the sterile vet's office, somehow what
>happened in my studio allowed me to realize on a deeper level that he had to
>go. When the news came, I was sad but not surprised. I still have the
>painting.
>
I see, maybe in some way you connected in such a way that subconciously it lead
you to acceptance and peace about where your cat was going to...and that he
would be ok there...
I can imagine this painting is very special to you.....very
thankyou for sharing this Dianne, I have never quite heard anything like this
and I don't think I will soon forget such an interesting and unique story
concerning the spiritual connection between you and your beloved cat. Really
beautiful
Tamara
Di-a-rama
"tamara" <magikri...@aol.com> wrote:
> thankyou for sharing this Dianne, I have never quite heard anything like this
> and I don't think I will soon forget such an interesting and unique story
> concerning the spiritual connection between you and your beloved cat. Really
> beautiful
Thank you also for sharing your story. Yours and the other animal stories
on the board have been very uplifting!
I can e-mail you a jpg if you'd like to see the painting. I donšt think it
is appropriate to post attachments in usenet...
Cheers,
Dianne
Azathool
"tamara" <magikri...@aol.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:20021121071807...@mb-mg.aol.com...
>
> well, I just thought I would share that with ya'll....it's not really
a
> shamanistic topic, but sort of borders on the fringes of it somewhere
...and I
> was wondering about other's experiences with past on animals that they
loved
> very much.
> Tamara
Thank you for sharing this with us, TamaraAnn. I was reminded about one
of my dearest and earliest friends, a Lapland dog called Babs.
It so happened that when I was in my 6th year, me and a friend of mine
decided to run away from home for a while. So we grabbed our tricycles
and started out into the great adventure... and our parents didn't know
anything. **One of the benefits about being invisible sometimes**
Anyway, the road we followed was heading towards the city, but about
halfway, there was a crossroad leading into a road surrounding a rather
large lake. Our house was situated next to the shore of this lake...
After a while when me and my friend got tired of biking, we stopped and
sat ourselves down beside the road, in the shadow of the trees and
bushes. As we sat there, all of the sudden we heard a car approaching
and when it passed by I could recongnize my parents car with my father
at the stearing-wheel and my friends parents in the backseat. Beside him
in the passengerseat, I saw mother and Babs, **that was the name of the
dog** sitting, and the dog was looking right at me, when they drove
by...
The car disappeared and the two of us senced trouble coming our way and
decided to get back home in a hurry. So we just turned our bikes around
and started biking towards home again. We thought that if we could come
home before our parents did, they wouldn't get so upset. After a while
we heard the sound of a car coming up from behind and when it came
closer it started to hoot, so we stopped. Out of the car came our
parents and Babs, they grabbed us and the bikes and off we went back
home in a hurry.
Later when things had settled, my parents told me that they had been
worried sick when they found out I was missing. They had searched the
area around the house and down towards the beach, but hadn't found a
single bit of trace were we could have gone. All of the sudden they had
noticed that Babs was sitting and watching across the lake at something,
but my parents couldn't see what she was looking at. The dog moved its
head sideways as if she was following something with her eyes, but no
birds or anything could be seen. And she raised her nose to sniff at the
air, as if she senced a smell of something familiar. Suddenly the dog
started to get nervous, and pushing my fathers leg, jumping up and down
in front of him, as if she wanted him to follow her. When they did, she
ran towards the car and wanted to get in. My parents was startled. Could
it be that the dog knew where to find me?
They decided to try it out and when they drove off, and picking up my
friends parents on their way. The dog had jumped into the front seat and
sat there together with my mother, and all father had to do was follow
the dogs reaction on the way... They realized that they had missed us
hiding in the bushes beside the road, when the dog all of the sudden had
leaped into the backseat and started to bark. So they decided to turn
back and there we were...
So if one asks me if I think animals have a sixth sence, my answer would
be: -"Yes, absolutely".
And here´s to all, who has experinced the loss of an old friend, and
valued familymember...
"Well, it's time to say goodbye to a friend
I'm glad you stayed together until the end
I understand you enjoyed the time you spent
Though I know that she will be back again
I don't know just how soon, my friend
Until you meet again just think of her,
as I think of you...
I understand it was easier to say hello,
than to say goodbye"
Nick Argall
If you create a free account at Yahoo! Photos, they give you a lot of
room, and you can choose who gets to see them (but they get them from
the web).
Nick
Sloop...@webtv.net
(((Tamara))) I've lost so many beloved animals over the years....more
kitty cats than doggers....I've really only ever had one dog of my own,
my Irish Setter....he passed away almost three years ago. He was a
lively character and very much intune with my own spirit.....I still
miss him very much....I do believe his spirit is still around from time
to time. I can be doing something and he will pop into my mind in the
most startling of ways. He stood very tall. Sometimes I'll be getting
something to eat and go to lift my plate off the counter and suddenly
feel the need to jerk the plate up higher thinking there is a nose
there. Or I'll turn round with a feeling he is behind me in the
hall....When he was alive, he never liked it when I closed the bedroom
door on him...he would lay out in the hallway with his nose pressed to
the small opening along the bottom and make snorting sounds under the
door to let me know he was there. Every now and then, I still here that
sound....
Cats....wow.....I've had sooooo many over the years and most have been
absolute loves....Two crippled ones were my favorites.....The one had
been very ill as a kitten and suffered mild brain damage which affected
her ability to walk but she was a lover AND a talker. Taught me how to
speak cat. I remember being 16 and just broken up with my first
love...I was alone in the house and sat on the bedroom floor crying my
eyes out. She came in, saw me and just curled up quietly beside me. I
got up and roamed through the house and sat on the floor in the living
room against the sofa for awhile, continuing to cry. She trotted on in
to the room in her little wobbly way and preceded to sit herself down
aside me again tucking her paws underneathe her......When I got up to
pace and ended up back in the bedroom she followed me there and again
sat beside me. This went on a couple of more times and suddenly it
dawned on me how she had been following me and what a sweet, loving show
of concern she was offering. "Oh Fluff," I said reaching out to her
with a sob, 'I'm so sorry, I wasn't even paying any attention to you."
Hearing me speak, she pulled herself up with one of her wonderful little
meows, so glad I was finally acknowledging her and rubbed her face in my
hand....All she wanted to do was try to comfort and she had waited soooo
patiently so as not to intrude on my thoughts......Animals are sooooooo
cool....
My other cat, Baby, was a little crippled kitten, he had a hip
deformity, its like his hip joints were fused....some kids found him in
a hole on the side of a road and brought him to the local vets in a box
one evening when I happened to be there with my big ole loveable tom
cat....He was so tiny and so scared, sitting in that box trembling with
his little hind legs stretched out straight. I asked the kids if they
wanted him and they said no, so I said I would take him in with me and
see what the vet said....The vet said take him home and give him some
TLC and see how he does....so I did and he did well for a couple of
years. He used to pull himself around with his front paws, dragging his
back end behind him. His front legs got real thick and strong and he
was so fast! He couldn't jump up on anything though. At bedtime he'd
always round the one corner of the bed and thump on the side of the
mattress....I'd reach down in the dark and hoist him up......He always
slept with me.......Unfortunately, his hip problem affected his bladder
and bowels and when he was about four years old he could no longer move
his bowels.....The vet and I tried everything but eventually he had to
be put down....It was so upsetting...it just seemed like such as waste
to have to put an animal to sleep for that....He wasn't in pain or
anything, just couldn't go.....I was sooooo upset.....
All of these guys still visit me in dreams and their presence seems to
propel me into a lucid dream.....which makes their visit all the more
real and profound. They are all buried on the property and I've no
doubt their spirits still linger about the place. Sometimes their
presence seems so close I just know they are right there.
Especially my setter....whenever I am low, he always seems to come to
mind. Its like his spirit just has to let me know he is still nearby.
Sloop
tamara
>I can e-mail you a jpg if you'd like to see the painting. I donšt think it
>is appropriate to post attachments in usenet...
>
>Cheers,
>Dianne
>
I would Love to see it Dianne....thanks! just use the email above...
If you don't mind, I would like to print it out, and put it in my "cat" photo
albumn, and keep it with my BabyLove collection, since you told me this story
when I finally accepted that Babylove is gone...and also, since your cat was
"orange" also...
So, to me, this will be a very special image, to keep in my collection next to
Babylove's stuff.....if you don't mind, I would really like to do that....and I
promise, when I show it to people, I will always tell them your story and the
story behind the image....
Tamara
tamara
You know, it sounds to me, like Babs *let* your parents get to the point of
being truely worried before she let on that she knew where you and your friend
were...
almost like she wanted them to reach that 'worried' stage before she began to
help them find you......
In away, perhaps because Babs lived there at the house with ya'll, she wanted
to teach them a lesson, of how much you meant to them *soft smile*
She sounds like she was a real good soul and very wise, my friend, thankyou for
sharing this little story with us from your childhood and Babs....
((( hugs ))))
>
>So if one asks me if I think animals have a sixth sence, my answer would
>be: -"Yes, absolutely".
>And hereæ„€ to all, who has experinced the loss of an old friend, and
>valued familymember...
>
>"Well, it's time to say goodbye to a friend
>I'm glad you stayed together until the end
>I understand you enjoyed the time you spent
>
>Though I know that she will be back again
>I don't know just how soon, my friend
>Until you meet again just think of her,
>as I think of you...
>
>I understand it was easier to say hello,
>than to say goodbye"
>
>
this is beautiful
tamara
>
>
>
>(((Tamara))) I've lost so many beloved animals over the years....more
>kitty cats than doggers....I've really only ever had one dog of my own,
>my Irish Setter....he passed away almost three years ago. He was a
>lively character and very much intune with my own spirit.....I still
>miss him very much....I do believe his spirit is still around from time
>to time. I can be doing something and he will pop into my mind in the
>most startling of ways. He stood very tall. Sometimes I'll be getting
>something to eat and go to lift my plate off the counter and suddenly
>feel the need to jerk the plate up higher thinking there is a nose
>there. Or I'll turn round with a feeling he is behind me in the
>hall....When he was alive, he never liked it when I closed the bedroom
>door on him...he would lay out in the hallway with his nose pressed to
>the small opening along the bottom and make snorting sounds under the
>door to let me know he was there. Every now and then, I still here that
>sound....
>
I bet when those moments happen, Sloop, that they are tender moments in your
spirit as you feel his presence close to you out of the blue ((( hugs )))
I think that Irish Setters are such intellegent dogs. My nieghbors have one,
along with a cocker spaniel, and in the spring when I am tending to my garden
alot, they always come and talk to me through the wooden fence. There are
little holes where they can see through.
Anyway, the Irish Setter is like my "alarm" warning to let me know if there are
any stray dogs in the neighborhood that might get my cats ( I have lost two
cats to wandering dogs passing by )
Well, the little cocker spaniel next door, she will bark at just about anything
and everything.....BUT, when the Irish Setter barks, I know that it is either a
strange human or a strange dog that he is barking at. I have even learned the
difference in his bark as to when it is a strange human or when it is a dog.
And so, many times this Irish Setter's bark has alarmed me and in turn it has
saved my cats from a possible attack from wandering dog.
I have really come to trust that Irish Setter next door and his bark. They seem
to be smart, and also calm dogs....
>Cats....wow.....I've had sooooo many over the years and most have been
>absolute loves....Two crippled ones were my favorites.....The one had
>been very ill as a kitten and suffered mild brain damage which affected
>her ability to walk but she was a lover AND a talker. Taught me how to
>speak cat. I remember being 16 and just broken up with my first
>love...I was alone in the house and sat on the bedroom floor crying my
>eyes out. She came in, saw me and just curled up quietly beside me. I
>got up and roamed through the house and sat on the floor in the living
>room against the sofa for awhile, continuing to cry. She trotted on in
>to the room in her little wobbly way and preceded to sit herself down
>aside me again tucking her paws underneathe her......When I got up to
>pace and ended up back in the bedroom she followed me there and again
>sat beside me. This went on a couple of more times and suddenly it
>dawned on me how she had been following me and what a sweet, loving show
>of concern she was offering. "Oh Fluff," I said reaching out to her
>with a sob, 'I'm so sorry, I wasn't even paying any attention to you."
>Hearing me speak, she pulled herself up with one of her wonderful little
>meows, so glad I was finally acknowledging her and rubbed her face in my
>hand....All she wanted to do was try to comfort and she had waited soooo
>patiently so as not to intrude on my thoughts......Animals are sooooooo
>cool....
>
ohhhh.....that is such a sweet story, they just melt the heart sometimes.
This little kitty you speak of reminds me very much of my Co-Co. He is a black
cat, nuetored male about 7 years old. I swear if anyone in my family is crying
for any reason, he will come sit next to them, and sometimes even gently meow
and lick the tear off the cheek..
Sometimes, some animals are really such empaths aren't they Sloop?, and it is
just so heart warming when they show us that they can feel our pain...
I can imagine this little kitty Fluff will always be so dear in your heart
cause she touched you so deeply at the moment.
>My other cat, Baby, was a little crippled kitten, he had a hip
>deformity, its like his hip joints were fused....some kids found him in
>a hole on the side of a road and brought him to the local vets in a box
>one evening when I happened to be there with my big ole loveable tom
>cat....He was so tiny and so scared, sitting in that box trembling with
>his little hind legs stretched out straight. I asked the kids if they
>wanted him and they said no, so I said I would take him in with me and
>see what the vet said....The vet said take him home and give him some
>TLC and see how he does....so I did and he did well for a couple of
>years. He used to pull himself around with his front paws, dragging his
>back end behind him. His front legs got real thick and strong and he
>was so fast! He couldn't jump up on anything though. At bedtime he'd
>always round the one corner of the bed and thump on the side of the
>mattress....I'd reach down in the dark and hoist him up......He always
>slept with me.......Unfortunately, his hip problem affected his bladder
>and bowels and when he was about four years old he could no longer move
>his bowels.....The vet and I tried everything but eventually he had to
>be put down....It was so upsetting...it just seemed like such as waste
>to have to put an animal to sleep for that....He wasn't in pain or
>anything, just couldn't go.....I was sooooo upset.....
>
You are such a kind hearted person Sloop, I bet there is alot of good karma
floating around your place. Not very many people would do what you did for
that cat. Sometimes when I visit people that really care about animals, I can
just sence all the good vibes around their place, and I bet your place feels
like that
I had a cat once that was deformed in the front paws, but I didn't take it home
from the vet like you did which was really kind and sweet of you....
In my case, it was sort of set in my lap by the ferrel mother and I didn't have
much choice!
I raised that litter of three kittens with a bottle since the ferrel moma never
came back for her babies....I am not sure I will ever understand what happened
to the mother.
The vet thinks it may have been her first litter, and perhaps since only three
were left in the flower bed, that perhaps she had more kittens elsewhere, and
perhaps she was confused and that is why she never came back for the three that
she left in the flower bed...
I could tell from the very beginning that the front paws of one of these
kittens was not moving as well as her brothers and sisters were.
so I took her to the vet, and they told me it looked like a birth defect, and
that I could excercise her front paws and perhaps they would work, otherwise
she would need to be put down. Well, I did strenuous "physical therapy" on
that little kitty when she was in her first few weeks of life, and sure enough
she learned to use the front paws and work them, and she eventually
walked...She had a bit of a bad limp to her gait, but she got herself around
none the less!
>All of these guys still visit me in dreams and their presence seems to
>propel me into a lucid dream.....which makes their visit all the more
>real and profound. They are all buried on the property and I've no
>doubt their spirits still linger about the place. Sometimes their
>presence seems so close I just know they are right there.
for some reason, I can just sence all the good karma at your place, Sloop
concerning these past-on animals (((( hugs )))
I bet other's can just feel the peace when they are at your place.
I have a cat cemetary also in my backyard with flowers and ceramic angels
placed there where they are all burried.
I have had some strange things happen concerning the flowers in my back yard,
and I interpreted them as signs from beyond :)
>Especially my setter....whenever I am low, he always seems to come to
>mind. Its like his spirit just has to let me know he is still nearby.
>
that is just soooo sweet, it sounds like there was such a stong bond between
the two of ya'll, and that he still worries about you and comes to visit you
from time to time....
thankyou for sharing these very sweet stories, very uplifting
: )
Tamara
Sloop...@webtv.net
Group: alt.religion.shamanism Date: Fri, Nov 22, 2002, 12:19pm (EST+5)
From: magikri...@aol.com (tamara)
Dianne wrote:
<<I can e-mail you a jpg if you'd like to see the painting. I don¹t
think it is appropriate to post attachments in usenet...>>
Tamara wrote:
<<I would Love to see it Dianne....thanks! just use the email above...
If you don't mind, I would like to print it out, and put it in my "cat"
photo albumn, and keep it with my BabyLove collection, since you told me
this story when I finally accepted that Babylove is gone...and also,
since your cat was "orange" also...
So, to me, this will be a very special image, to keep in my collection
next to Babylove's stuff.....if you don't mind, I would really like to
do that....and I promise, when I show it to people, I will always tell
them your story and the story behind the image....>>
I'd love to see it too, Dianne, if you'd care to share it......and webtv
can actually handle jpgs.....heh heh...its about the only thing it can
handle!
Have you ever thought of setting up a site where your work could be
viewed? Something like......ummmm.... gee who was that that suggested
setting something up, was it Nick? It could be your very own virtual
museum of art. We could all pop over and take a look. We'll even leave
the slurpees and the marshmellows on the logs around the fire if you
like. That way we won't accidentally make a mess! :-)
Sloop
Azathool
> >From: "Azathool" azat...@straycats.lair
><a cruel brutal snip on my own post>
>
> You know, it sounds to me, like Babs *let* your parents get to the
point of
> being truely worried before she let on that she knew where you and
your friend
> were...
> almost like she wanted them to reach that 'worried' stage before she
began to
> help them find you......
> In away, perhaps because Babs lived there at the house with ya'll, she
wanted
> to teach them a lesson, of how much you meant to them *soft smile*
>
> She sounds like she was a real good soul and very wise, my friend,
thankyou for
> sharing this little story with us from your childhood and Babs....
> ((( hugs ))))
Hey.. the second teaching today in only a short while <smile> Never
thought of like that really, but thinking back it might be. Babs and I
was born on the same day, same year and she came to live with us when
she was but a little puppy. We grew up together and played alot.
Her special treat was giving me a lesson in how to play soccer and
somehow she always managed to make me to fall in my nose by grabbing
hold of my shoe from behind me, when I ran to catch the ball.
thank you ((hug))
FLORA
> >From: Di-a-rama bro...@SPAM.com
> >Date: 11/21/02 10:36 AM Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: <BA024BAC.1A6A8%bro...@SPAM.com>
> >
> >On 11/21/02 4:18 AM, in article 20021121071807...@mb-mg.aol.com,
> >"tamara" <magikri...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> well, I just thought I would share that with ya'll....it's not really a
> >> shamanistic topic, but sort of borders on the fringes of it somewhere
> ...and I
> >> was wondering about other's experiences with past on animals that they
> loved
> >> very much.
> >
> >
> >Hmm. Relationships with animals in both ordinary reality and the other
> >world seem to be deeply tied to similar principles.... And from the sound
> >of Flora's posts, her practice is very animal based.
>
> It was surely a refreshing breeze blowing into ars yesterday, to see Flora make
> a post, I hope she continues, I have been humbled and inspired many times by
> some of her post...espcially pertaining to the animals...and I miss reading her
> thoughts..
>
> ((*hi Flora, if you are reading this, can you tell I am trying to lure you out
> of the shadows ? I miss reading your thoughts, and seeing you yesterday
> *really* was like a refreshing breeze blew thru here........I will never forget
> how you were so kind and warm with me when I was scared to come out of the
> shadows~~soft smile~~))
>
>
My computer was broken. I wanted to be here, but my spirit was
willing. I like seeing you too! You have all been much upon my mind
these past couple o weeks, I have been crippled in Cyberspace by a
mouse that needed replacing! Never underestimate the power of a
single, homely mouse! <LOL> Can you imagine being sick, but without
cyberspace? I painted and did a lot of drawing, instead.
I have had a couple of experiances with Beloved animal spirits.
First, was my dead horse, Jimmy. When I was a wee un, about fifteen
years old, and first thrown into the Land of Spirits, I got into a lot
of trouble. And sometimes, when I look back, recognizing that some of
that trouble could have turned out pretty serious, indeed, someone
saved me...Jimmy did. He appeared without a skin a lot of times. But I
knew it was him.
Chased by some nasty boogers, I'd be running like hell and there'd be
Jimmy--ready to save the day, and take me to safety. He was what i
would think of as my first Animal Gaurdian, in the Lands of Spirit.
This was before i met my old Boss, and was under his protection.
After that, my old horse Buzzard died, about two months before the
Boss did. Then the Boss's horse died, and two weeks after that, the
Boss died. I was bereft. Three days after his death, I dreamed that
the phone was ringing, and that the Boss was hollering at me thru my
answering machiene to "Wake-UP! Dumb-butt!!!"
This was hardly an unusual occurrance.
Every day of my life for five years, we had gone thru this, except
when I was living with him, where he could holler in person, at about
5:15am.
So i got up, not realizing that this was not a dream, and answered the
phone and told the old man that I was so glad to hear him, because I
had a terrible dream that he had died!
"Do I sound dead to you?" he testily replied.
Nope. definitely didn't sound dead.
So I went to work.
This is where it gets hairy. I was in a place where all things were
existing at once. I like to call it the Between Place, because the
past and the present are all living with each other, and the whole
reality is sort of a Picasso or Chagal-like surreal layered universe.
But I closed my eyes to that. I was familliar with this kind of double
vision, and if I was gonna have to ignore wooden bar5ns I knew full
well had burned down fifteen years before, then I would, if thats what
it took to live in a world where the Old Man was still Alive.
So I get to the porch of our Tack room, and there is the old man in a
crisp white western shirt and his best Stetson (which is his
second-best hat) sitting where we always had coffee every morning.
When i get my car parked I get out and run up and hug him, and he has
two halters in his hand.
""c'mon and lets go get Fritz and Buzzard, and move em back here,
before Pammy notices they got out," he says.
"But they're dead!" I blurt.
"What's this DEAD kick you're on?" he sez, throwing me a leather
halter and leadrope. "They're just moved. Not dead...and so am I. Look
kid, Lets talk about this thing...."
(I am crying now. The rest is personal.) But He told me how it was.
And how if I needed him I would always be able to find him, if he was
the only one to help me. He told me other stuff, and we found the
horses out iun a pasture that had been a parking lot for about five
years now, and took them back up to the barns that had burned down.
and we put them away. I saw my horse alive and young. I saw my
favorite person, (my Father, really) and he explained abut what had
happened
(Tears falling down my long sharp nose.)
This is the best story about a beloved animal that I have seen in
Spirit, but I got to see the Old Man, too. I have not needed to see
Buzzard since, but I have seen the Old man.
I have a much less happy story where i had to go to the Land o the
Dead to find my frind's horse. He had been found dead, and eaten by
dogs. I wanted to know for sure what killed him, because they had
another horse, a baby. The friend was very sure that the dogs had not
killed the horse, (all evidence being to the contrary, but denial is
still fashionable, hereabouts) It looked pretty much like the poor
half eaten horse had either had a heart attack because the dogs got
him by the throat and the flank, then died,(very likely) or that he'd
had a heart attack, died, and the dogs ate him, beause they were bored
(Not likely.) The owner was not keen on a post mortem.
So, I had to go and ask, and that meant traveling to the Underworlds,
in this case.
The dogs ate him, because they took him down, and he died of a
fear-induced heart attack.
(other stuff happened there, but that is extraneous to this
discussion.)
The owner didn't want to hear it. She kept the dogs, and shut her eyes
to the obvious.
Just recently, the same dogs took out the beloved cat. Oliver had been
known to me since he was a kitten. I helped bury him. He hung around
and offered to do me a favor. So i had him play messenger for me and
it worked out quite well. This time the dog was taken to be put to
sleep. I have never hated being right, more in my life. That really
sucked, folks.
But the little cat did do me a favor, based on our long relationship
as friends, for free.
Yes it does. I think this is a very powerful form of magic. IT sounds
like you had a very strong desire for your cat to do better, and by
making this sort of manifest in your painting, perhaps this focussed
your energy in some way to do what he needed, as help. Perhaps it gave
him a bridge to the Otherwolds, or the strength to Cross Over.
Sometimes they need to say Goodbye, as bad as we do.
>
> >Unfortunately the effects were temporary. I don't know if what I did
> >actually had any real effects. But considering how helpless I felt being
> >3000 miles away as he was dying in the sterile vet's office, somehow what
> >happened in my studio allowed me to realize on a deeper level that he had to
> >go. When the news came, I was sad but not surprised. I still have the
> >painting.
> >
>
> I see, maybe in some way you connected in such a way that subconciously it lead
> you to acceptance and peace about where your cat was going to...and that he
> would be ok there...
> I can imagine this painting is very special to you.....very
>
yes, what a lovely parting Gift!
> thankyou for sharing this Dianne, I have never quite heard anything like this
> and I don't think I will soon forget such an interesting and unique story
> concerning the spiritual connection between you and your beloved cat. Really
> beautiful
>
> Tamara
This is indeed a very special story....
Blessings to you on this day,
FLORA
(who is tempted now to blow her now-runny nose on the tiny whte cat at
her feet...after all, he's gotta be good for something...)
tamara
>From: floen...@earthlink.net (FLORA)
>>
>>
>
>My computer was broken. I wanted to be here, but my spirit was
>willing. I like seeing you too! You have all been much upon my mind
>these past couple o weeks, I have been crippled in Cyberspace by a
>mouse that needed replacing! Never underestimate the power of a
>single, homely mouse! <LOL> Can you imagine being sick, but without
>cyberspace? I painted and did a lot of drawing, instead.
>
LOL Flora!, ask K-ET (privately) what "mouse" means in Swedish, and you will
find that your statement was even more true than you may have realised!!
*cheesey grin*
; D
I am glad you are back, and I am glad you have won the fight with pneumonia,
that's one heck of a battle you've been through, and you speak of it so matter
of factly like it was nothing at all ((hugs))
Your post made my mind have alot of questions, and my thoughts went wandering,
and so there may be some personal questions in this reply that are too
personal, ...so if they are too personal, please forgive me, and don't worry
about a response then, I understand...
>I have had a couple of experiances with Beloved animal spirits.
>
>First, was my dead horse, Jimmy. When I was a wee un, about fifteen
>years old, and first thrown into the Land of Spirits, I got into a lot
>of trouble. And sometimes, when I look back, recognizing that some of
>that trouble could have turned out pretty serious, indeed, someone
>saved me...Jimmy did. He appeared without a skin a lot of times. But I
>knew it was him.
>
>Chased by some nasty boogers, I'd be running like hell and there'd be
>Jimmy--ready to save the day, and take me to safety. He was what i
>would think of as my first Animal Gaurdian, in the Lands of Spirit.
>This was before i met my old Boss, and was under his protection.
>
thank goodness for Jimmy.
I am curious about why Jimmy appeared to you without skin....do you suppose
that was a symbol that he is not bound to a body anymore?
>After that, my old horse Buzzard died, about two months before the
>Boss did. Then the Boss's horse died, and two weeks after that, the
>Boss died. I was bereft. Three days after his death, I dreamed that
>the phone was ringing, and that the Boss was hollering at me thru my
>answering machiene to "Wake-UP! Dumb-butt!!!"
>
>This was hardly an unusual occurrance.
>
>Every day of my life for five years, we had gone thru this, except
>when I was living with him, where he could holler in person, at about
>5:15am.
>
>So i got up, not realizing that this was not a dream, and answered the
>phone and told the old man that I was so glad to hear him, because I
>had a terrible dream that he had died!
>
>"Do I sound dead to you?" he testily replied.
>
>Nope. definitely didn't sound dead.
>
>So I went to work.
>
>This is where it gets hairy. I was in a place where all things were
>existing at once. I like to call it the Between Place, because the
>past and the present are all living with each other, and the whole
>reality is sort of a Picasso or Chagal-like surreal layered universe.
>But I closed my eyes to that. I was familliar with this kind of double
>vision, and if I was gonna have to ignore wooden bar5ns I knew full
>well had burned down fifteen years before, then I would, if thats what
>it took to live in a world where the Old Man was still Alive.
>
this is totally off topic to what we are talking about...but I am stuck here
at
this place.....you speak of...
do you suppose at "this place" a person could find out about their "past life"
and actually see it, and experience it?
sorry, that is so off topic I know, but my mind got stuck at this place you in
the spirit world that you see...
>So I get to the porch of our Tack room, and there is the old man in a
>crisp white western shirt and his best Stetson (which is his
>second-best hat) sitting where we always had coffee every morning.
>
>When i get my car parked I get out and run up and hug him, and he has
>two halters in his hand.
>
>""c'mon and lets go get Fritz and Buzzard, and move em back here,
>before Pammy notices they got out," he says.
>
>"But they're dead!" I blurt.
>
>"What's this DEAD kick you're on?" he sez, throwing me a leather
>halter and leadrope. "They're just moved. Not dead...and so am I. Look
>kid, Lets talk about this thing...."
>
>(I am crying now. The rest is personal.)
*huge hugs to you for sharing this with us*
>But He told me how it was.
>And how if I needed him I would always be able to find him, if he was
>the only one to help me. He told me other stuff, and we found the
>horses out iun a pasture that had been a parking lot for about five
>years now, and took them back up to the barns that had burned down.
>and we put them away. I saw my horse alive and young. I saw my
>favorite person, (my Father, really) and he explained abut what had
>happened
>
>(Tears falling down my long sharp nose.)
>
*bless your heart, this has me crying with you .....this is so very touching*
>This is the best story about a beloved animal that I have seen in
>Spirit, but I got to see the Old Man, too. I have not needed to see
>Buzzard since, but I have seen the Old man.
>
>I have a much less happy story where i had to go to the Land o the
>Dead to find my frind's horse. He had been found dead, and eaten by
>dogs. I wanted to know for sure what killed him, because they had
>another horse, a baby. The friend was very sure that the dogs had not
>killed the horse, (all evidence being to the contrary, but denial is
>still fashionable, hereabouts) It looked pretty much like the poor
>half eaten horse had either had a heart attack because the dogs got
>him by the throat and the flank, then died,(very likely) or that he'd
>had a heart attack, died, and the dogs ate him, beause they were bored
>(Not likely.) The owner was not keen on a post mortem.
>
>So, I had to go and ask, and that meant traveling to the Underworlds,
>in this case.
>
>The dogs ate him, because they took him down, and he died of a
>fear-induced heart attack.
>
that poor horse....that is so sad...
it must have made him feel better to know that someone cared enough about him
to go find him and find out what killed him...
I know that wasn't easy for you, but I bet it sure made that horse feel special
when you did that for him...
>(other stuff happened there, but that is extraneous to this
>discussion.)
>
>The owner didn't want to hear it. She kept the dogs, and shut her eyes
>to the obvious.
>
>Just recently, the same dogs took out the beloved cat. Oliver had been
>known to me since he was a kitten. I helped bury him. He hung around
>and offered to do me a favor. So i had him play messenger for me and
>it worked out quite well. This time the dog was taken to be put to
>sleep. I have never hated being right, more in my life. That really
>sucked, folks.
>
I can only imagine how lonely that must have felt...
I have a question here Flora, and again, it's a little off topic....
When dogs like that, pass on.......are they just as mean on the otherside as
they were here? do they continue to try and kill other animals over there?
or do they get some sort of peace and understanding come over them when they
pass on that changes them towards other animals?
>But the little cat did do me a favor, based on our long relationship
>as friends, for free.
>>
>>
that was sweet, it seems those little kittys do some good deeds when they
travel on over!....*big smile*
<respectful snippage>
>
>Blessings to you on this day,
>FLORA
>
>(who is tempted now to blow her now-runny nose on the tiny whte cat at
>her feet...after all, he's gotta be good for something...)
>
>
LOL, so true! ........ Run tiny white kitty run!! ; )
Tamara
tamara
>Hey.. the second teaching today in only a short while <smile> Never
>thought of like that really, but thinking back it might be. Babs and I
>was born on the same day, same year and she came to live with us when
>she was but a little puppy. We grew up together and played alot.
that is neat, to have grown up with an animal so closely linked with you in the
astrological sphere!
>Her special treat was giving me a lesson in how to play soccer and
>somehow she always managed to make me to fall in my nose by grabbing
>hold of my shoe from behind me, when I ran to catch the ball.
what a little trickster she was! it sounds like she was a special playmate for
you when you were little...
I bet she is one of the first that will be eager to greet you someday
thankyou dear friend, for this little story of Babs....she made me remember
Mitzi whom was my familys childhood dog, and she was so dear to our family.
She died when I was about 10 years old, and she was the first experience with
death that I can remember, as far as experiencing the "pain" of having to say
goodbye
I know some children, (like my own son) have to experience death in a much
harder way by loosing a "person" that is dear and close to them.....but for
alot of children, it is the childhood pet that is their first experience with
death, and in many ways that teaches hard lessons about life that we all have
to learn...
Tamara : )
Di-a-rama
22220-3D...@storefull-2194.public.lawson.webtv.net,
"Sloop...@webtv.net" <Sloop...@webtv.net> wrote:
> Have you ever thought of setting up a site where your work could be
> viewed? Something like......ummmm.... gee who was that that suggested
> setting something up, was it Nick? It could be your very own virtual
> museum of art. We could all pop over and take a look. We'll even leave
> the slurpees and the marshmellows on the logs around the fire if you
> like. That way we won't accidentally make a mess! :-)
Umm...actually, I have ftp space at both AOL and Earthlink. And I have a
Yahoo account also. Plus, I *do* have a web site, but it never came up
until now, so I never mentioned it. What kind of artist would I be if I
didn't have an online portfolio? ;)
Anyway, the pic in question is not on my site and I don't have time to fix
that right now, so I emailed it to you and Tamara.
Cheers,
Dianne
PS--this is what I meant when I said I have so many accounts...who needs 4
different e-mail accounts? Plus when you add all the mailboxes--yikes, that
makes 7! Both the schools I teach at also told me I can get email there...
Sloop...@webtv.net
Group: alt.religion.shamanism Date: Fri, Nov 22, 2002, 12:24pm (EST+5)
From: magikri...@aol.com (tamara)
Tamara wrote:
<<I think that Irish Setters are such intellegent dogs. Â My nieghbors
have one, along with a cocker spaniel, and in the spring when I am
tending to my garden alot, they always come and talk to me through the
wooden fence. There are little holes where they can see through.
Anyway, the Irish Setter is like my "alarm" warning to let me know if
there are any stray dogs in the neighborhood that might get my cats ( I
have lost two cats to wandering dogs passing by )
Well, the little cocker spaniel next door, she will bark at just about
anything and everything.....BUT, when the Irish Setter barks, I know
that it is either a strange human or a strange dog that he is barking
at. I have even learned the difference in his bark as to when it is a
strange human or when it is a dog. And so, many times this Irish
Setter's bark has alarmed me and in turn it has saved my cats from a
possible attack from wandering dog. I have really come to trust that
Irish Setter next door and his bark. They seem to be smart, and also
calm dogs....>>
Setters seem to get a bum rap as far as intelligence is concerned due to
their natural exuberance. For some reason, an easy going, lively nature
equates to many as not being very bright as if only those of an intense
nature can be smart. Mine was very sharp and caught on to things very
quickly. I know what you mean about the different barks. Mine had
several. One for cats, one for dogs and one for people. And he had a
very special excited whiney sound for familiar people he saw coming.
Tamara wrote:
<<This little kitty you speak of reminds me very much of my Co-Co. He is
a black cat, nuetored male about 7 years old. I swear if anyone in my
family is crying for any reason, he will come sit next to them, and
sometimes even gently meow and lick the tear off the cheek..>>
All of my animals always stayed close any time I was upset.....
Tamara wrote:
<<Sometimes, some animals are really such empaths aren't they Sloop?,
and it is just so heart warming when they show us that they can feel our
pain... I can imagine this little kitty Fluff will always be so dear in
your heart cause she touched you so deeply at the moment.>>
Fluff was always very special to me. I'd had a siamese, still rather
young, that had just died a couple of days before acquiring her. My
family had just moved and there must have been something in the
apartment because all of the cats became ill.
We had a male, a pregnant female and my siamese....they all became sick
within a couple of days. The male just got cold symptoms, so did the
female, but her two kittens were born dead. The siamese became very ill
and my dad waited too long to take her to the vet. She died on the vets
table. So my brother came home with Fluff for me, because obviously, I
was devasted with all the deaths. She was so tiny and purred so loud.
She had this amazing little motor that would run if you just looked at
her! But within about 36 hours she wasn't purring anymore. She was
just sitting real still. My brother whisked her right off to he vets.
She got a shot and the vet said, take her home, keep her fur wetted down
all night to try and break the fever but if she wasn't improved by
morning she probably wouldn't make it.....Well, he brought her home, put
her in the one living room chair and as we were deciding who was going
to take what shift all night to keep her rubbed down, the female who had
been yeowing around for two days over her lost babies walked up to the
chair and sniffed at Fluff. Up until then she had only hissed at Fluff
but now she jumped up into the chair, wrapped herself around Fluff and
began to wash her. She washed her all night long keeping her fur wetted
down.......Heh heh....She knew exactly what needed to be done....it was
amazing....In the morning, she just got up and went on her way. And of
course, Fluff survived. After that she could never purr quite right
though....the fever had damaged something there too along with her back
end.
Whenever I hear people say that animals are stupid I think of incidences
like this and know that they are not. They have a much greater
awareness of things than people give them credit for.
Sloop wrote:
<<My other cat, Baby, was a little crippled kitten, he had a hip
deformity, its like his hip joints were fused....some kids found him in
a hole on the side of a road and brought him to the local vets in a box
one evening>> <snipped>
Tamara wrote:
<<You are such a kind hearted person Sloop, I bet there is alot of good
karma floating around your place. Not very many people would do what you
did for that cat. Sometimes when I visit people that really care about
animals, I can just sence all the good vibes around their place, and I
bet your place feels like that>>
I get so upset when I hear of animals being abandoned or abused. I'll
never understand how people can do such things. If you don't want an
animal....take it to a shelter....It may end up being put down, but that
is more humane than abandoning a tiny, and in this instance, a helpless
little guy to the wilds of anything that might come along.....
Tamara wrote:
<<I had a cat once that was deformed in the front paws, but I didn't
take it home from the vet like you did which was really kind and sweet
of you.... In my case, it was sort of set in my lap by the ferrel mother
and I didn't have much choice!
I raised that litter of three kittens with a bottle since the ferrel
moma never came back for her babies....I am not sure I will ever
understand what happened to the mother.>>
My dad once rescued a litter of kittens at the back end of my parents
property that were left on their own when momma cat went off who knows
where. A bad rainstorm kicked up and the little hideaway the kittens
were in was on a downhill slope that now had water flooding in, so my
dad brought them all up to the porch and became the proud adoptive
father of about five kittens!
Momma cat never did return.....
Tamara wrote:
<<The vet thinks it may have been her first litter, and perhaps since
only three were left in the flower bed, that perhaps she had more
kittens elsewhere, and perhaps she was confused and that is why she
never came back for the three that she left in the flower bed....I could
tell from the very beginning that the front paws of one of these kittens
was not moving as well as her brothers and sisters were. so I took her
to the vet, and they told me it looked like a birth defect, and that I
could excercise her front paws and perhaps they would work, otherwise
she would need to be put down. Â Well, I did strenuous "physical
therapy" on that little kitty when she was in her first few weeks of
life, and sure enough she learned to use the front paws and work them,
and she eventually walked...She had a bit of a bad limp to her gait, but
she got herself around none the less!>>
You're such a good soul! Animals respond so well to love and attention.
They have amazing adapting capabilities. I believe they have to be
given a chance. Too often people write these animals off and it is not
necessary. Their lives have value too and need to be given a chance to
flourish just like any other. Often times these animals become the most
loyal. They never seem to forget what you have done for them....
Tamara wrote:
<<for some reason, I can just sence all the good karma at your place,
Sloop concerning these past-on animals (((( hugs ))) I bet other's can
just feel the peace when they are at your place.>>
Well, the animals sure seem to sense something! Its a family
thing....Animals are always showing up on the doorstep. My dad's got a
thing for birds and squirrels too....He's got them trained to come for
peanuts....One bird will actually stand on the ground facing the patio
and give the strangest loud chirp to get his attention in the
house....When they want their peanuts....they want their peanuts, NOW!!!
lol The squirrels will hang off the porch door.....They are all so
funny!
Tamara wrote:
<<I have a cat cemetary also in my backyard with flowers and ceramic
angels placed there where they are all burried.
I have had some strange things happen concerning the flowers in my back
yard, and I interpreted them as signs from beyond :)>>
A log marks the grave of my setter...the others are unmarked. He's
buried out by the pear tree he liked so much. :-)
Sloop wrote:
<<Especially my setter....whenever I am low, he always seems to come to
mind. Its like his spirit just has to let me know he is still nearby.>>
Tamara wrote:
<<that is just soooo sweet, it sounds like there was such a strong bond
between the two of ya'll, and that he still worries about you and comes
to visit you from time to time....>>
There was a very strong bond.....He was so wild though when I first got
him. I didn't think he would work out at all and after a week, I took
him back to the woman I got him from. He was crushed. He pouted his
way to the back of his crate, threw himself down with his back to me,
her and his two siblings and layed there with his eyes have closed and
breathing hard like he was soooo wounded. The woman looked at me and
said....'Oh my goodness...I've never seen an animal bond to someone so
thoroughly and so fast....Why...he doesn't even think he's a dog!' I
wound up going back for him though that evening! I was too broken
hearted not to! He'd gotten to me too! :-)
I do suspect he is still close most of the time......One of our favorite
things was to go walking in the snow......He loved to chase snowballs or
jump and snatch them out of the air. To this day, I still go walking in
the snow but I miss him terribly. When I return from my walk, before I
go in the house, I always make one snowball and throw it out across the
lawn for his spirit to chase....
Sloop
Azathool
>
> what a little trickster she was! it sounds like she was a special
playmate for
> you when you were little...
> I bet she is one of the first that will be eager to greet you someday
I hope so too. We´ve always had animals in our family. Several dogs, but
also cats and birds, like parrots and budgies. The farmer at the
farmstead where we lived kept cows and hens, as well as there was a
whole bunch of undomesticated cats living in the hey at the barnyard.
> thankyou dear friend, for this little story of Babs....she made me
remember
> Mitzi whom was my familys childhood dog, and she was so dear to our
family.
> She died when I was about 10 years old, and she was the first
experience with
> death that I can remember, as far as experiencing the "pain" of having
to say
> goodbye
Hmm.. You know, we share this experience then, because it was the same
for me. One day I came home from school and was told Babs had been taken
to the veternarian to be put out. I never really understood the reason
for this. I never saw her as being sick or injured and I never saw her
attack anyone. I was used to take her out for walks from very young age
and never once did she cause any trouble. The only thing my parents said
about it was that they had to.
> I know some children, (like my own son) have to experience death in a
much
> harder way by loosing a "person" that is dear and close to
them.....but for
> alot of children, it is the childhood pet that is their first
experience with
> death, and in many ways that teaches hard lessons about life that we
all have
> to learn...
Yes, and it is a sad experience. But I reccon living at the countryside
made me used to the ordianry life and deaths of the farm, which very
much included seeing the calves and the chickens being slaughtered
I was asked by my grandfather to come and sit at his side when he was on
his last. I was alone with him during the last 48 hrs of his life and
even though it was a disheartening experience, it still made me feel
comfortable with dying. He was calm and made peace with his spirits
while I was there and he also made sure I would not go and get the
others before he had lost consciousness, being on his last breath.
Sloop...@webtv.net
Group: alt.religion.shamanism Date: Sat, Nov 23, 2002, 5:10pm (EST+5)
From: bro...@SPAM.com (Di-a-rama)
<<Umm...actually, I have ftp space at both AOL and Earthlink. And I have
a Yahoo account also. Plus, I *do* have a web site, but it never came up
until now, so I never mentioned it. What kind of artist would I be if I
didn't have an online portfolio? ;)>>
And a really fine portfolio it is too! Thanks so much for
sharing.....Maybe you could post the site for everybody else too. I'm
sure they would love to take a look. Its well worth popping over to.
<<Anyway, the pic in question is not on my site and I don't have time to
fix that right now, so I emailed it to you and Tamara.>>
One of my favorities. I love your use of color, lines and imagery. So,
so, so, so cool....Or as Maq (an oldtimer absent for awhile) would
say....KEWL!
<<PS--this is what I meant when I said I have so many accounts...who
needs 4 different e-mail accounts? Plus when you add all the
mailboxes--yikes, that makes 7! Both the schools I teach at also told me
I can get email there...>>
Well as long as you're able to block the spam...:-)
Thanks again for sharing!
Sloop
tamara
>Anyway, the pic in question is not on my site and I don't have time to fix
>that right now, so I emailed it to you and Tamara.
Thankyou Dianne,
I got it : )
the painting seems to really speak with all the energy you told us about...I
can "see" it in the painting...it is awesome!
I will treasure this, and the story that goes with it....
would love to see the rest of them, so please post the link to your web site!
((( thanks )))
ps...have a nice Thanksgiving holiday! : )
Tamara
tamara
I regretfully snipped most of this, and it was hard because I enjoyed so much
reading those touching stories you shared about some of the animals in you and
your father's life.....
but I saved this one little part...
>To this day, I still go walking in
>the snow but I miss him terribly. When I return from my walk, before I
>go in the house, I always make one snowball and throw it out across the
>lawn for his spirit to chase...
Sloop, I am so glad to have met you,....you give me such a peaceful neat
feeling reading your words and thoughts like this...
it's little things like this statement of yours that make me love ars
sincerely,
Tamara *who's been up all night working, one too many nights....*soft
smile**
Azathool
<smile> ok... this may come as a surprise to some of you, but since I
live in winter wonderland so to speak and only this morning had to walk
through the snowfall, slowly turning into sluch and mudd, chased by
crazy tractor drivers pushing snow all over the place and trying their
damndest to run us pedestraians over, or at least chase us out into the
streets and get run over or something <grin>
So I only got one thing to say and that is "If we had no winter, the
spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste of
adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." ~ Anne Bradstreet
Seriously, Thank you for sharing, Sloop. I was reminded about another
dog of ours. it was a collie, that mother and father bought after Babs
hed been taken out. And believe it or not, but I used to throw snowballs
for him to chase, just like the way you did. We had him for eleven years
and he was another one of my best friends back then. I will never forget
the day I was out walking him and he sniffed the trail of a cat that had
passed by. He took off in a suddne haste and I was dragged along on my
stomach for several meters till he finaly stopped all exhausted, looking
at me with eyes telling how utterly irritated he was with me right then.
Now, if only this had happened in the winter, instead of the summer and
dragged along a stony road
"tamara" <magikri...@aol.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:20021125094936...@mb-bh.aol.com...
Sloop...@webtv.net
Group: alt.religion.shamanism Date: Mon, Nov 25, 2002, 8:28pm (EST+6)
From: azat...@straycats.lair (Azathool)
<<smile> ok... this may come as a surprise to some of you, but since I
live in winter wonderland so to speak and only this morning had to walk
through the snowfall, slowly turning into sluch and mudd, chased by
crazy tractor drivers pushing snow all over the place and trying their
damndest to run us pedestraians over, or at least chase us out into the
streets and get run over or something <grin>>
Yeah, I guess you would have a bit of snow already up there in the north
country like you are. :-) Sounds like your plough drivers trained at
the same school of snowploughing as ours over here! We no sooner get
the driveway dug out than the ploughs go by and plough us back in! The
roads end up nice and clear, now if only we could get out of our
driveways!
<<So I only got one thing to say and that is "If we had no winter, the
spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste of
adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." ~ Anne Bradstreet
Seriously, Thank you for sharing, Sloop. I was reminded about another
dog of ours. it was a collie, that mother and father bought after Babs
hed been taken out. And believe it or not, but I used to throw snowballs
for him to chase, just like the way you did. We had him for eleven years
and he was another one of my best friends back then. I will never forget
the day I was out walking him and he sniffed the trail of a cat that had
passed by. He took off in a suddne haste and I was dragged along on my
stomach for several meters till he finaly stopped all exhausted, looking
at me with eyes telling how utterly irritated he was with me right
then.>>
What's the matter, Aza...moving a bit too slow there to suit him? lol
My setter never, EVER learned to walk nicely on a leash....it was
useless trying....he would pull and tug and be gasping for air but he
wouldn't quit trying to drag you along....He was a hunting dog at heart
and loved to be out loping along with his nose to the ground and at
least 20-30 feet ahead of me.
<<Now, if only this had happened in the winter, instead of the summer
and dragged along a stony road>>
Oh....OUCH!!! I thought it happened in the snow until I got to this
part! lol No wonder he gave you a dirty look....you were moving MUCH
too slow if you were dragging over gravel! ;-)
Thanks for sharing.
Sloop
FLORA
> >From: floen...@earthlink.net (FLORA)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >My computer was broken. I wanted to be here, but my spirit was
> >willing. I like seeing you too! You have all been much upon my mind
> >these past couple o weeks, I have been crippled in Cyberspace by a
> >mouse that needed replacing! Never underestimate the power of a
> >single, homely mouse! <LOL> Can you imagine being sick, but without
> >cyberspace? I painted and did a lot of drawing, instead.
> >
>
> LOL Flora!, ask K-ET (privately) what "mouse" means in Swedish, and you will
> find that your statement was even more true than you may have realised!!
> *cheesey grin*
> ; D
>
LOL it means the same in Norway! My husband's grandfather was slightly
scandalized to hear that was E's nickname for me!
> I am glad you are back, and I am glad you have won the fight with pneumonia,
> that's one heck of a battle you've been through, and you speak of it so matter
> of factly like it was nothing at all ((hugs))
>
Well, thank you for the hugs...(((((((((((Tamara))))))))))))))
But it is nothing. Just an inconveniance. I fight off these nasties,
very matter-of-factly and try not to give them too much power, by
fearing them.
> Your post made my mind have alot of questions, and my thoughts went wandering,
> and so there may be some personal questions in this reply that are too
> personal, ...so if they are too personal, please forgive me, and don't worry
> about a response then, I understand...
>
>
Nope not too personal, but I have had two responses swallowed by
cyberspace, and am getting frustrated with the Google posting
system...
>
>
> >I have had a couple of experiances with Beloved animal spirits.
> >
> >First, was my dead horse, Jimmy. When I was a wee un, about fifteen
> >years old, and first thrown into the Land of Spirits, I got into a lot
> >of trouble. And sometimes, when I look back, recognizing that some of
> >that trouble could have turned out pretty serious, indeed, someone
> >saved me...Jimmy did. He appeared without a skin a lot of times. But I
> >knew it was him.
> >
> >Chased by some nasty boogers, I'd be running like hell and there'd be
> >Jimmy--ready to save the day, and take me to safety. He was what i
> >would think of as my first Animal Gaurdian, in the Lands of Spirit.
> >This was before i met my old Boss, and was under his protection.
> >
>
> thank goodness for Jimmy.
> I am curious about why Jimmy appeared to you without skin....do you suppose
> that was a symbol that he is not bound to a body anymore?
>
>
I Think it was because he was slaughtered. He had been very lame off
and on, and my parents sold him to a person who shipped him out of
state, sold him at auction, and thend result wasd slaughter. It was
something we all knew about and actually contributed t my getting sick
in the first place (Imagine how sick you'd feel if your parents took
your best friend away to be slaughtered, because euthanasia is
something you have to pay for, but you get money for the slaughter
auction.)
I think the fact this happene to him was shocking enough that the
experiance left a psychic imprint on him. Unfortunately for horses,
anything slaughtered for human consumption has to be slaughtered
"alive" but "stunned." So they know whats happening to them.
>
> > >
------------<snip story>--------------
>
> this is totally off topic to what we are talking about...but I am stuck here
> at
> this place.....you speak of...
> do you suppose at "this place" a person could find out about their "past life"
> and actually see it, and experience it?
I dunno. I never tried that.
But is seems like this would be possible in the Between Place. I go
there to meet with my younger self...so i think the previous selves
would be an extension of that kind of thing, and prolly pretty easy to
meet with. You might have to travel to the appropriate places where
those selves lived, in the Between place, but I think it should be a
fun expiriment.
> sorry, that is so off topic I know, but my mind got stuck at this place you in
> the spirit world that you see...
>
>
Tell me if you try this and have any success.
I have had some pretty good luck meeting with my "Younger selves" for
their perspectives and help with personal issues.
>
> >So I get to the porch of our Tack room, and there is the old man in a
> >crisp white western shirt and his best Stetson (which is his
> >second-best hat) sitting where we always had coffee every morning.
> >
> >When i get my car parked I get out and run up and hug him, and he has
> >two halters in his hand.
> >
> >""c'mon and lets go get Fritz and Buzzard, and move em back here,
> >before Pammy notices they got out," he says.
> >
> >"But they're dead!" I blurt.
> >
> >"What's this DEAD kick you're on?" he sez, throwing me a leather
> >halter and leadrope. "They're just moved. Not dead...and so am I. Look
> >kid, Lets talk about this thing...."
> >
> >(I am crying now. The rest is personal.)
>
>
> *huge hugs to you for sharing this with us*
>
>
>
> >But He told me how it was.
> >And how if I needed him I would always be able to find him, if he was
> >the only one to help me. He told me other stuff, and we found the
> >horses out iun a pasture that had been a parking lot for about five
> >years now, and took them back up to the barns that had burned down.
> >and we put them away. I saw my horse alive and young. I saw my
> >favorite person, (my Father, really) and he explained abut what had
> >happened
> >
> >(Tears falling down my long sharp nose.)
> >
>
>
> *bless your heart, this has me crying with you .....this is so very touching*
>
(Furious blush...) I didn't mean to make you cry.
>
>
-------------<more snippage>------------
> >So, I had to go and ask, and that meant traveling to the Underworlds,
> >in this case.
> >
> >The dogs ate him, because they took him down, and he died of a
> >fear-induced heart attack.
> >
>
> that poor horse....that is so sad...
> it must have made him feel better to know that someone cared enough about him
> to go find him and find out what killed him...
> I know that wasn't easy for you, but I bet it sure made that horse feel special
> when you did that for him...
>
He didn't feel special, he felt betrayed. Devistated and betrayed. His
person left him to work in New Zealand, and in three weeks he was
dead. The girlfriend was the one supposed to be watching him, and the
one who found him.
I have kept the horse off and on at my place and he looked to me as a
friend.
So my trip to the underworlds did not make him feel special--it was
the very least I could do, considering the circumstances... The poor
horse felt abandoned and unloved...and in some ways he was right. My
going after him was only a small comfort, to let him know that SOMEONE
cared about him. But regardless of anything I could do, that was one
sad horse spirit. He felt abandoned by his owner and was killed by the
dogs he considered friends. I was not his Master, only his Master's
friend, and what hurt the animal most of all was that his master had
left him to this fate.
(The horse could not have understood that the Master had gone to New
Zealand to work, so the horse would continue to have hay, and a place
to live. They just don't seem to get concepts like that.)
>
> >(other stuff happened there, but that is extraneous to this
> >discussion.)
> >
> >The owner didn't want to hear it. She kept the dogs, and shut her eyes
> >to the obvious.
> >
> >Just recently, the same dogs took out the beloved cat. Oliver had been
> >known to me since he was a kitten. I helped bury him. He hung around
> >and offered to do me a favor. So i had him play messenger for me and
> >it worked out quite well. This time the dog was taken to be put to
> >sleep. I have never hated being right, more in my life. That really
> >sucked, folks.
> >
>
> I can only imagine how lonely that must have felt...
>
Yep, it really sucked.
> I have a question here Flora, and again, it's a little off topic....
> When dogs like that, pass on.......are they just as mean on the otherside as
> they were here? do they continue to try and kill other animals over there?
> or do they get some sort of peace and understanding come over them when they
> pass on that changes them towards other animals?
>
Ok, this is just my experiance, but here is my perspective on the
situation.
Dogs are in many ways a kind of wolf. Genes say "wolf" mostly. Only
superficial changes have been made in them. When dogs do this stuff,
they are only acting according to their nature. It is not an
aberrition for them to hunt, it is merely What Dogs Do. I think in
the Otherside worlds, they do hunt and chase little fuzzy things and
play as dogs will... I think that we attach certain values to certain
behaviours, and applying one to animals that might be appropriate to
people, would be ...unrealistic.
Having been torn apart and devoured by spirits, and still able to talk
about it with other souls, I guess that spirit squirrel-hunting in the
Happy Hunting grounds prolly hurts nobody.
Maybe a vicious animal might become more playful, if its viciousness
was due to abuse in its former life, but a hunter would prolly not
become less of a hunter. I just think maybe its "victims" might have a
better chance at escaping "Harm" as we think of it.
>
> >But the little cat did do me a favor, based on our long relationship
> >as friends, for free.
> >>
> >>
>
> that was sweet, it seems those little kittys do some good deeds when they
> travel on over!....*big smile*
>
Yes. Kitties have been pretty darn cool to me!
>
> <respectful snippage>
>
>
> >
> >Blessings to you on this day,
> >FLORA
> >
> >(who is tempted now to blow her now-runny nose on the tiny whte cat at
> >her feet...after all, he's gotta be good for something...)
> >
> >
>
> LOL, so true! ........ Run tiny white kitty run!! ; )
>
> Tamara
LOL
He's also pretty good as a napkin, too...
FLORA
(And her somewhat damp-coated cats)
SilverSong
"FLORA" <floen...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1fdaec3.02112...@posting.google.com...
<massive clip>
> I dunno. I never tried that.
> But is seems like this would be possible in the Between Place. I go
> there to meet with my younger self...so i think the previous selves
> would be an extension of that kind of thing, and prolly pretty easy to
> meet with. You might have to travel to the appropriate places where
> those selves lived, in the Between place, but I think it should be a
> fun expiriment.
My ideas on reincarnation has more bends and turns than a rollercoaster gone
awry. And I'm not to sure what to make of an experience I had a while ago.
(oh boy, this is getting emotional).
To get it started, I figure there are two kinds of reincarnation. The more
or less physical one, in which you are the combination of your parents and
'fueled' as it were with your own self. Along the ancestry line.
The other one the journey the Self or Soul makes, the lives it expresses in,
fuels, transcending the ancestry lines. I've had some Journeys/Dreams in
which I met Past Lives, and I interpreted it in that they were unique and
'stand-alone' beings with their own personality. The only thing we really
had in common was this fueling thing, were the self comes from. Some
patterns could get overlayed and crossed over, but for the most part, what
was there was there, what is here is here.
A few weeks ago I was with a woman I fancied (*really* fancied), and I
reckon she felt the same way, but we were not to get it physical. The last
night we were together (she was here for a short stay), something happened.
(No, not that, get the mind out of the gutter, would ya?)
One technique I know to 'see' past lives or 'shadows' is to keep staring at
a person's face. Do it long enough and it will start to glow and change.
Images and forms of other faces will be transparant over their face, and
after a while, become indistinguishable. If you close your eyes and go into
a (mild) trance, you can fairly easily click into the flow.
Well, that's what happened, but by accident really. She saw and clicked.
She saw us in a past life, and also what happened. Now, I'm not really know
to be usually confounded with emotions, but they were raging, and I was
feeling ... oh boy ... lots.
She didn't tell me what she saw, only confirmed some of the glimpses I got.
And they were not pleasant. I really can't describe the sadness I felt at
that time, it was like I made a mistake in that life, and I was repeating it
again now. But I didn't know what it was, yet felt like failing all over
again.
Thing is, it felt like *I* made the mistake in that first place, and *I* was
making it again.
Yet I also have the strong feeling and experience that 'something' of this
person, as ghost or somesuch, is with me. I feel him, as seperate entity. I
feel his sadness, and I'm not sure if that sadness is the same as mine, or
that the two are just extremely similar.
So this has me, besides emotionally, mentally confused. I can understand
that dead folkcan linger about and attach themselves to you in one way or
another. But is this similar to dead folk that you used to be? Can a
past-life person come back to you, to interact with you like this, as if
it's seperated from the time he lived in, as more or less an entity in this
present time? Independant of that past?
Ideas anyone?
Yerune
FLORA
> "FLORA" <floen...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1fdaec3.02112...@posting.google.com...
> <massive clip>
> > I dunno. I never tried that.
> > But is seems like this would be possible in the Between Place. I go
> > there to meet with my younger self...so i think the previous selves
> > would be an extension of that kind of thing, and prolly pretty easy to
> > meet with. You might have to travel to the appropriate places where
> > those selves lived, in the Between place, but I think it should be a
> > fun expiriment.
>
> My ideas on reincarnation has more bends and turns than a rollercoaster gone
> awry. And I'm not to sure what to make of an experience I had a while ago.
> (oh boy, this is getting emotional).
>
see if i come up with more that I can share later...
I have met people where I have literally fet "OH! Thats where you are!
I was waiting for you...."
There are a couple friends who were REALLY close to me, maybe in some
other time. Some feel like family, some feel like lovers. One or two
were absolutely blood enemies.
Is this real? I have no sure way of knowing. Might just be a phantom
to chase after, but hearing your describe having similar beliefs and
simalar feelings, at least i know i am not completely mad.
I cannot say for sure but i belive that our "selves" have layers of
aspects, and that these layers are what could prolly feel so separate,
yet be such a part of us. That feeling of Fucking up just like we did
"before" is so familliar to me. That anguish is so fresh, tho the
incident for me has come and gone several winters ago, and it still
feels so fresh. It is a Mystery to me. A deep one.
I will talk more about this, after thinking some....
Blessings Jeroen...do you need a little cat?
FLORA
(and her highly absorbant, white-napkinlike kitten, who is looking for
a forever home)
> Yerune
Nick Argall
[reincarnation, and a memory of things having gone wrong]
> Ideas anyone?
I have no relevant experience, but Katherine Kerr wrote a series of
novels (Daggerspell, Somethingspell, Dawnspell and Theotherthingspell
I think) about a man who swears not to rest until he fixes a
particularly disastrous mistake, and finds himself with a sort of
immortality as events are replayed generation after generation until
he untangles everything.
So I think there's something in the Celtic myth referenced by Kerr
about events, as well as people, being echoed from one generation to
the next. And they're a good read.
Nick
Di-a-rama
> to be usually confounded with emotions, but they were raging, and I was
> feeling ... oh boy ... lots.
> She didn't tell me what she saw, only confirmed some of the glimpses I got.
> And they were not pleasant. I really can't describe the sadness I felt at
> that time, it was like I made a mistake in that life, and I was repeating it
> again now. But I didn't know what it was, yet felt like failing all over
> again.
>
> Thing is, it felt like *I* made the mistake in that first place, and *I* was
> making it again.
>
> Yet I also have the strong feeling and experience that 'something' of this
> person, as ghost or somesuch, is with me. I feel him, as seperate entity. I
> feel his sadness, and I'm not sure if that sadness is the same as mine, or
> that the two are just extremely similar.
>
> So this has me, besides emotionally, mentally confused. I can understand
> that dead folkcan linger about and attach themselves to you in one way or
> another. But is this similar to dead folk that you used to be? Can a
> past-life person come back to you, to interact with you like this, as if
> it's seperated from the time he lived in, as more or less an entity in this
> present time? Independant of that past?
>
> Ideas anyone?
Yerune,
What makes you think there is a mistake? Is there only one right
action both then and now? And the question about whether they even
separate--go back to your Kangaroo Dreaming idea. Are the two of you
the same person simultaneously making the same decision? Or are you
two different people in two different events which have such strong
echoes of similarity that they tap into that same stream?
One of the main problems I have with the idea of reincarnation is the
notion that it is attached to Karma. I think that there is a subtle
connection between that which is already created and that which we can
create. We have to recognize that much of what we can respond to is
influenced by others as much as it is influenced by each of us. On
some level, whether conscious or not, we make choices in every moment.
Our choices affect us and everybody else.
Cheers,
Dianne
SilverSong
> Is this real? I have no sure way of knowing. Might just be a phantom
> to chase after, but hearing your describe having similar beliefs and
> simalar feelings, at least i know i am not completely mad.
It's real. Maybe not exactly the way you or me see it, but it's something at
least.
> I cannot say for sure but i belive that our "selves" have layers of
> aspects, and that these layers are what could prolly feel so separate,
> yet be such a part of us. That feeling of Fucking up just like we did
> "before" is so familliar to me. That anguish is so fresh, tho the
> incident for me has come and gone several winters ago, and it still
> feels so fresh. It is a Mystery to me. A deep one.
Yeah. I reckon I had it neatly boxed up in my ideas. Other selves had their
own personality, their own lives. I mean, to me, a person here in the flesh,
is a combination of all that physical stuff, DNA and environment, and the
influx of life and fuel from the Soul. The Identity is in the middle of all
that, at the crossroads so to say. The personality is the light of soul
coursing through and interacting with the physical body. (well, more or less
something like that).
A ghost is that personality disconnected from Soul, and with another energy
source. Some are linked to a place, other's are more inclinded to dwell in
the (less energy demanding) astral planes, but still disconnected. A
semi-alive husk, autonomously programmed, but not really with the hallmark
of life, inspired creativity.
And now this happens, and the thesis falls down. I don't mind that though,
I'm just faced with fucking up something yet again, only with the 'benefit'
of knowing I fuck up, except I don't know what I'm fucking up, how, why and
with whom. That is the sucky bit.
> I will talk more about this, after thinking some....
>
> Blessings Jeroen...do you need a little cat?
>
> FLORA
> (and her highly absorbant, white-napkinlike kitten, who is looking for
> a forever home)
Heh, a bugger-laden, snot-loaded, saliva-saturated and left-over-sticky
little thing? I think you need to rethink your promoting tactic a little bit
:)
Thanks Flora, I really appreciate the offer (seriously)
Y
Di-a-rama
>
> making it again.
> So this has me, besides emotionally, mentally confused.
I'm sorry I had to cut my last message short--I'm posting from Google
and am still in the broom closet so to speak. The family came in the
room and an a panic I hit the send button... :)
Anyway, the "no BS" side of me wrote the last message, so don't take
it the wrong way! The fact is, there is a certain aspect of the
process of discovery that is quite like madness. I've been thinking
alot about it myself, lately. I don't have any real answers except
that it seems like sometimes we try to put too many human constructs
onto the things in our sprituality that are quite infinte in nature.
Sometimes the vastness of what is really out there is difficult to
comprehend or make sense of. In a way, this state of confused
knowledge right on track.
In Stewart's "The Way of Merlin" there is a chapter about spiritual
madness and some talk about spiritual progression. The difficult part
is really moving from one stage to the next because getting stuck can
be so easy.
Anyway, back to this idea that you made a mistake--really, what's that
about? Would knowing the mechanics of reincarnation answer the actual
question?
Cheers,
Dianne
SilverSong
"Di-a-rama" <br...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:a7c39f77.02112...@posting.google.com...
> Yerune,
>
> What makes you think there is a mistake?
The mistake is the mental bit. The feeling, real deep, is that of failure,
then and now. As if I already made the mistake, the feeling of failure being
the result of this. Odd thing is, that 'this time' I did have the courage to
do some things I was too afraid to do in earlier times of my life, but
that's this lifetime.
> Is there only one right action both then and now?
I know a little bit of what went on back then, or at least the imagery. The
feeling is one of 'copping out', pretending something is very important but
actually using it as a mask to cover the fear of doing the other thing.
> And the question about whether they even
> separate--go back to your Kangaroo Dreaming idea. Are the two of you
> the same person simultaneously making the same decision? Or are you
> two different people in two different events which have such strong
> echoes of similarity that they tap into that same stream?
Well, that's the confusing bit actually. Before it happened I would have
said that the two of us are two seperate individuals, who happen to share a
common 'issue', two distinct ones with a somewhat overlapping cause, and
this is felt more directly due to the sharing (or being of) of the same
soul. Key word is individual, if it's related to the Kangaroo Dreaming
stuff, we're actually the same being.
There's a lot of guessing and doubts going on about this, and some are there
for a real good reason as well. I'm not willing (yet) to discount the idea
that there is magic being performed on or even against me. May sound like
complete wash, but I really have my reasons for this idea.
Best bet I could do right now, is that this other self has 'awakened' and/or
shifted his attention from the place he was to down here with me. I don't
know the reason for this though, although there are some possibilities. Some
very positive, others much less so.
> One of the main problems I have with the idea of reincarnation is the
> notion that it is attached to Karma. I think that there is a subtle
> connection between that which is already created and that which we can
> create. We have to recognize that much of what we can respond to is
> influenced by others as much as it is influenced by each of us. On
> some level, whether conscious or not, we make choices in every moment.
> Our choices affect us and everybody else.
>
> Cheers,
> Dianne
Well, the way I experienced it before, is that the Soul is not perfect. It
has issues, and it has it's blindspots just the same, so it may not even
know that some of the things it's doing is maybe a bit counter-productive or
how else you want to put it as undesirable.
If for instance, there's a very inherent pattern of insecurity going on,
this may get expressed in the score of lives, all different, but all with
the same common cause. I reckon that's Karma.
But there's also something which may be better described as 'issues'.
Certain patterns that are there, floating around, needing hosts and a stage
to be acted out, worked out perhaps. You can find yourself working out these
issues even when you aren't even involved in the causing of these patterns.
You may be dealing with karmic issues from your neighbours, for example.
I reckon, with the example of Family Constelations, if you can manage to
externalize these kinds of patterns, have them play on a different stage
with different actors, and then return the finished product to the
originator or authentic actor, it could resolve a lot of issues. Same
principle as with relating to Mythical figures and tales I think.
Y
SilverSong
> Anyway, back to this idea that you made a mistake--really, what's that
> about? Would knowing the mechanics of reincarnation answer the actual
> question?
> Cheers,
> Dianne
Well, no, but it's a fine ploy to have a shot at getting some personal
advice from as many smart and wise people as I can :)
For one reason or another, I can't contact this 'other person' directly, so
I'm hoping that by coming to know the mechanics, I can find another way to
deal with it.
Y
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
In another post of yours, you mentioned falling into a pattern. I am aware
of one that seems to involve what you are talking about. It repeats itself
over and over throughout the Poetic Edda, variants of it have survived as
the fairy tales "Snow White" and "Sleeping Beauty" and "Briar Rose". I have
seen it play out in my own life as well. It is an active pattern, and it has
good reasons for existing. Although it's playing out in my life has caused
me great anguish at times, I recognize it as a means by which my Goddess
instructs and (if possible) advances the abilities of Her followers.
The prototypical story is that of Sigfried and Brynhild. I cite that one
because it is the most well known variant. The older variant of the tale,
Svipdagsmal, is not as well known. It is said in the lore that "Valkyries
are reborn". Elsewhere it is said that "Valkyries yearn".
I could go on in more detail but if it doesn't match what you are seeing,
that would be silly. So, does any of this ring a bell with you?
--
Those who beat their swords | Do NOT taunt ^ /o\
into plowshares today ][ | Really Jazzed |/\v/---
-== will surely plow tomorrow ======]o[///{O | Newlywed NYC b ^ | |
for those who don't! ][ | Valkyrie! | / \ V
SilverSong
"She Devil With A Rubber Chicken" <reds...@liii.com> wrote in message
news:as63bi$goq$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net...
> In article <3de667fc$0$75624$e4fe...@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>,
> SilverSong <Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >For one reason or another, I can't contact this 'other person' directly,
so
> >I'm hoping that by coming to know the mechanics, I can find another way
to
> >deal with it.
>
> In another post of yours, you mentioned falling into a pattern. I am aware
> of one that seems to involve what you are talking about. It repeats itself
> over and over throughout the Poetic Edda, variants of it have survived as
> the fairy tales "Snow White" and "Sleeping Beauty" and "Briar Rose". I
have
> seen it play out in my own life as well. It is an active pattern, and it
has
> good reasons for existing. Although it's playing out in my life has caused
> me great anguish at times, I recognize it as a means by which my Goddess
> instructs and (if possible) advances the abilities of Her followers.
Hmm, contact with dwarves, choking on apples, being knocked out by a
hallicogenic substance and enter a very deep trance state? ;)
Seriously, I'm not sure which pattern you refer to. I recognise some
patterns I'd say are Mythical/Archetypical, others are simply learned
behaviour patterns, others are more definable with 'wounds'.
> The prototypical story is that of Sigfried and Brynhild. I cite that one
> because it is the most well known variant. The older variant of the tale,
> Svipdagsmal, is not as well known. It is said in the lore that "Valkyries
> are reborn". Elsewhere it is said that "Valkyries yearn".
>
> I could go on in more detail but if it doesn't match what you are seeing,
> that would be silly. So, does any of this ring a bell with you?
The yearning bit certainly does, no clue for or to what, but it's there. I'm
not too sure about the reborn thing, but if it means having continuously
having your sense of reality ripped to shreds periodically, than aye, that
rings a massive bell.
But please, I'm really interested in the tales, wether or not it correlates
with what I'm seeing.
Y
Di-a-rama
...
> shifted his attention from the place he was to down here with me. I don't
> know the reason for this though, although there are some possibilities. Some
> very positive, others much less so.
> But there's also something which may be better described as 'issues'.
> Certain patterns that are there, floating around, needing hosts and a stage
> to be acted out, worked out perhaps. You can find yourself working out these
> issues even when you aren't even involved in the causing of these patterns.
> You may be dealing with karmic issues from your neighbours, for example.
>
> I reckon, with the example of Family Constelations, if you can manage to
> externalize these kinds of patterns, have them play on a different stage
> with different actors, and then return the finished product to the
> originator or authentic actor, it could resolve a lot of issues. Same
> principle as with relating to Mythical figures and tales I think.
Yes, I was going to say something along those lines--that perhaps
certain behavior patterns have an archetype as much as types of people
do. However, I think trying to attribute an "originator" and an
"echo" is counterproductive. The best thing for the here and now is
the fact that you got another piece of the puzzle. Perhaps you cannot
yet see either a)how to change the situation or b)why it must stay the
way it is.
If it's a question of external "bewitchery" I can't say. But the
spirits prod us in many ways, so there is a strong possibility that
these are messages coming to you. Sometimes they try to whisper
first. If you don't hear it, they bludgeon you over the head with a
big hammer.
Cheers,
Dianne
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
SilverSong <Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>"She Devil With A Rubber Chicken" <reds...@liii.com> wrote in message
>news:as63bi$goq$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net...
>>
>hallicogenic substance and enter a very deep trance state? ;)
Heeheeheeehee!!! Um, no...basically, it involves a circumstantial or
forced separation from a very compatible person, a great deal of
hardship and/or journeying in the physical/real world, an eventual
accomplishment of some sort of quest or passing of a test, and then
hooking up with the compatible person again.
The bit with the dwarves relates to the story of how Freya got the
Brisingamen. The apple/drug thing is a sleep spell that shows up
overtly in the Sigfried/Brynhild story.
The Celtic mythos has a lot of this too, but I've noticed there is a
lot more star-crossed hoohah and a lot fewer happy endings there.
Valkyries are not exactly Sidhe/Alfar/elves.
>Seriously, I'm not sure which pattern you refer to. I recognise some
>patterns I'd say are Mythical/Archetypical, others are simply learned
>behaviour patterns, others are more definable with 'wounds'.
Makes sense. This pattern is archtypical and myth(lore)-based.
>The yearning bit certainly does, no clue for or to what, but it's there. I'm
>not too sure about the reborn thing,
The appearance of both together (the reborn thing and the yearning thing)
is why I bothered piping up in the first place. It seemed to fit.
>but if it means having continuously
>having your sense of reality ripped to shreds periodically, than aye, that
>rings a massive bell.
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
>But please, I'm really interested in the tales, wether or not it correlates
>with what I'm seeing.
Well, uh...as far as I can tell, the yearning stuff is there to strengthen
the link between the two people. What they do with it is their decision.
If it is possible for them to evolve to the point where they are using it
for the purposes it was given to them, they can get great things done.
But it only shows up under circumstances which force a situation where
there's a lot of dissatisfaction with the way things are, and there can
be a whole lot of misunderstandings.
People who don't put love as their #1 priority are not going to be able
to handle it. :-/
I have my own thoughts on WHY this pattern occurs (at least, to those of
us who are valkyries), why it repeats, and why it is constructed to
create more annoying twists of wyrd than an entire team of soap opera
writers could crank out in a year...but that would turn this into far
longer a post than I want this to be, and it might be somewhat off-topic
because it would get pretty verbose with Asatru-specific stuff. I've
kinda tried to do the Readers Digest thing here, hope it still makes
some sense.
tamara
>My ideas on reincarnation has more bends and turns than a rollercoaster gone
>awry. And I'm not to sure what to make of an experience I had a while ago.
>(oh boy, this is getting emotional).
>To get it started, I figure there are two kinds of reincarnation. The more
>or less physical one, in which you are the combination of your parents and
>'fueled' as it were with your own self. Along the ancestry line.
>The other one the journey the Self or Soul makes, the lives it expresses in,
>fuels, transcending the ancestry lines. I've had some Journeys/Dreams in
>which I met Past Lives, and I interpreted it in that they were unique and
>'stand-alone' beings with their own personality. The only thing we really
>had in common was this fueling thing, were the self comes from. Some
>patterns could get overlayed and crossed over, but for the most part, what
>was there was there, what is here is here.
>
>A few weeks ago I was with a woman I fancied (*really* fancied), and I
>reckon she felt the same way, but we were not to get it physical. The last
>night we were together (she was here for a short stay), something happened.
>(No, not that, get the mind out of the gutter, would ya?)
oop...I..I...I wasn't thinkin that, promise
O; )
I don't really have any ideas Yerune, but I do thankyou for sharing that
experience, it closest describes a similar experience I have had...
In my process, it was more long and drawn out over a period of a few months,
almost a year really...and it started with a dream, lucid...
As things led along, or the closer I got, I guess it would be best to say, I
began to feel this overwhelming sadness inside too...
yet I was drawn to find out more...
I can totally relate with what you described, and I have never really read
anyone describe it so close to how I felt.
In my case, I could literally physicall feel her, and she was like a teenager,
around 15 years old, and she was "built" differently than me in her body, and
her hair was different than mine, different color and everything.....and yet I
was her...it was extremely weird....and when I got closer, there was a sadness
beyond anything I had ever experienced. Not like a regret type as you felt,
but in my case it was like an unfullfilled type of sadness, like stuck in a
terrible mental/emotional state of being cut short of something she wanted so
desparately...
and the pain inside was almost unbearable for me to experience sometimes...
The strange thing is, Is that these feelings seemed to amplify when I would
listen to the singer Jewel.....especially oddly enough her cd titled
"Spirit"....isn't that weird!
but it would take me "right there"....which wasn't always so good, because of
this overwhelming unfullfilled sadness I would experience was very hard to
experience sometimes, it was just so very sad....
I never *really* understood the whole thing, but in my heart I feel like it was
a past life of mine.....
it could have been a spirit walking close to me, too close, and somehow I
accidently let her emotions in, and felt them, like empath thing....
but in my heart, it feels more like it was "me" somewhere in my past...
I was advised to tell her to walk "beside" me, and not "in" me....and directly
saying this, seemed to help alot, as far as making that sadness fade...
and I had to make myself literally stop listening to that Jewel cd...
Sometimes, I can be in a store or something, and hear one of those songs, and
it's like immediately a little tinge will emerge in my heart and I can feel it
again, but not as sad anymore
Anyway, I don't have any answers, but your post reminded me of my experience
because it was very similar to what you described.
There is an old song, something about "Do you believe in the magic of a young
girl's heart"
and after that experience, I surely do believe in the magic of a young girls
heart! as I said, she was only about 15 years old.
Tamara
tamara
From: floen...@earthlink.net (FLORA)
>Subject: Re: "Beloved" Animal Spirits
>
>> Your post made my mind have alot of questions, and my thoughts went
>wandering,
>> and so there may be some personal questions in this reply that are too
>> personal, ...so if they are too personal, please forgive me, and don't
>worry
>> about a response then, I understand...
>>
>>
>Nope not too personal, but I have had two responses swallowed by
>cyberspace, and am getting frustrated with the Google posting
>system...
>
>>
oh, grrr!
I know the frustration, AOL has been re-fricken-diculous during this holiday
week, with being thrown offline alot.....too many people home and online I
guess...
>> >
>>
>> thank goodness for Jimmy.
>> I am curious about why Jimmy appeared to you without skin....do you suppose
>> that was a symbol that he is not bound to a body anymore?
>>
>>
>I Think it was because he was slaughtered. He had been very lame off
>and on, and my parents sold him to a person who shipped him out of
>state, sold him at auction, and thend result wasd slaughter. It was
>something we all knew about and actually contributed t my getting sick
>in the first place (Imagine how sick you'd feel if your parents took
>your best friend away to be slaughtered, because euthanasia is
>something you have to pay for, but you get money for the slaughter
>auction.)
>
oh my
>I think the fact this happene to him was shocking enough that the
>experiance left a psychic imprint on him. Unfortunately for horses,
>anything slaughtered for human consumption has to be slaughtered
>"alive" but "stunned." So they know whats happening to them.
>
>>
oh, that's so sad.....it's heart wrenching..
When I was around 14 years old, I was off in the country with my parents, at
this get away place my grandparents had..
I snuck off to go sneak a cigerette ( me bad) and I walked quite aways, and sat
on a little hill to have my cig...
down, in the meadow, about a 1/2 mile away, there was a big pig/hog farm..
I think they were slaughtering them inside of there, because the pigs began to
scream the most blood curdling screams I have ever heard...
I will never forget that, it made me very nausious and I felt so sick being so
close to that...I remember just crying for those pigs...
I still can not eat saugage that comes from "this area"..
I can eat Jimmy Dean Sausage, or Eckridge Sausage, or Polish Sausage..
But if it says on the label that it came from the Brenhamn area ( which alot of
sausage comes from there in my area) and if it says that, I simply "can't" eat
it...
>>
>> this is totally off topic to what we are talking about...but I am stuck
>here
>> at
>> this place.....you speak of...
>> do you suppose at "this place" a person could find out about their "past
>life"
>> and actually see it, and experience it?
>
>I dunno. I never tried that.
>But is seems like this would be possible in the Between Place. I go
>there to meet with my younger self...so i think the previous selves
>would be an extension of that kind of thing, and prolly pretty easy to
>meet with. You might have to travel to the appropriate places where
>those selves lived, in the Between place, but I think it should be a
>fun expiriment.
>
>
I get the same exact sence too, that it would be best achieved at the correct
location...
I am not so sure it would always be fun, but it would be very interesting, and
perhaps answer some questions, and even somehow bring healing to that past life
person, or something :)
>> sorry, that is so off topic I know, but my mind got stuck at this place you
>in
>> the spirit world that you see...
>>
>>
>Tell me if you try this and have any success.
>I have had some pretty good luck meeting with my "Younger selves" for
>their perspectives and help with personal issues.
>
>>
I have never tried going to ask my younger self questions, that's an
interesting concept....I think I should like to try this myself sometime.
>> >(Tears falling down my long sharp nose.)
>> >
>>
>>
>> *bless your heart, this has me crying with you .....this is so very
>touching*
>>
>(Furious blush...) I didn't mean to make you cry.
>>
>>
its s'ok...I cry very easily....
too easily sometimes,
I think I have too much estrogen, or progesterone or something!
poor soul.....that is so very sad....
he felt so betrayed, that is one of the worst emotions in the world, and he has
to carry that feeling with him....that is so very sad ....that poor, poor
soul...
I am glad you visited him Flora...(( hugs ))
hmmm...that is very interesting, and it makes sence, since all dogs were wild
before we domesticated them, and yes, they are wolves at heart....
>> >
>> >Blessings to you on this day,
>> >FLORA
>> >
>> >(who is tempted now to blow her now-runny nose on the tiny whte cat at
>> >her feet...after all, he's gotta be good for something...)
>> >
>> >
>>
>> LOL, so true! ........ Run tiny white kitty run!! ; )
>>
>> Tamara
>LOL
>He's also pretty good as a napkin, too...
>
>FLORA
>
>(And her somewhat damp-coated cats)
>
>
*me thinks that the little white napkin is getting to your heart ; ) *
Tamara * who is having to make a big decision at the moment, between coconut
cream pie or banana pudding .....hmm, decisions, decisions*
Nick Argall
> I have my own thoughts on WHY this pattern occurs (at least, to those of
> us who are valkyries), why it repeats, and why it is constructed to
> create more annoying twists of wyrd than an entire team of soap opera
> writers could crank out in a year...but that would turn this into far
> longer a post than I want this to be, and it might be somewhat off-topic
> because it would get pretty verbose with Asatru-specific stuff. I've
> kinda tried to do the Readers Digest thing here, hope it still makes
> some sense.
Please, do the long post. I'll feel better about myself.
And I might learn something, too :)
Nick
Di-a-rama
> In article <3de69619$0$75602$e4fe...@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>,
> SilverSong <Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >Seriously, I'm not sure which pattern you refer to. I recognise some
> >patterns I'd say are Mythical/Archetypical, others are simply learned
> >behaviour patterns, others are more definable with 'wounds'.
>
> Makes sense. This pattern is archtypical and myth(lore)-based.
>
> >The yearning bit certainly does, no clue for or to what, but it's there. I'm
> >not too sure about the reborn thing,
>
> The appearance of both together (the reborn thing and the yearning thing)
> is why I bothered piping up in the first place. It seemed to fit.
>
Maybe she has one of you soul parts.
Anyway, yearning does not need to be love-based although it certainly
seems to be fulfillment-/loss-based regardless of the circumstances.
Cheers,
Dianne
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Nick Argall <nicka...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Please, do the long post. I'll feel better about myself.
>
>And I might learn something, too :)
Ok. The origins of the Big Soap Opera.
Aesir meet Vanir. Someone named Gullveig on the Vanir side scares
the bejeebers out of the Aesir with "witchcraft". So Odin kills her
with a spear. They burn her.
There is a war because of this, and the Vanir kick the Aesir's
butts. In the end, there is an alliance formed, with an exchange
of hostages to guarantee the peace. Two of the hostages are
Frey and Freya. A third is their father, Njord.
Well, this annoying dame Gullveig keeps getting reborn. "Thrice
they burned her, yet ever and anon she liveth", so says Voluspa,
the first part of the Poetic Edda. It's pretty well universally
acknowledged that Gullveig is Freya.
Freya and Odin get involved. There's only one problem. Odin wants
a monogamous relationship, and let's just say the Vanir are a
little more "wild and free" than that. Freya being a Goddess of
love, cannot keep her attentions from the rest of the world.
Rather nasty things are said by Loki about this, but if you
think about it, it would certainly be a sorry world that didn't
allow every being capable of loving a chance to experience it.
o Freya sees these four dwarves, the Brisings, making this
necklace. She agrees to their price (which is for a night
with Her each) for it. Some people feel this is a meaningless
act for a bauble. I beg to differ, but that's my own perspective.
The Eddas are full of riddles and symbolism. My own take on it
is that the four dwarves are the ones who are holding up the
"corners of the sky" and that by doing this, She has brought
love to the very ends of the earth. What the necklace's
properties and powers may be are never said in the lore, but
I hold no doubt that there's more to Brisingamen than is stated
in the lore.
Odin and Loki seem to agree, because the first thing they do
on learning of this is to steal it while Freya is sleeping.
Naturally Freya wants it back, and so to punish Her, Odin
forces Her to do something She would least want to do, and
start an endless war that will supply him with champions
who will fight for Him at Ragnorok. She chooses half the
battle-slain, and He gets the rest.
Odin goes walkabout, trying to deal with this. At some point,
he gets the bright idea to "sacrifice himself to Himself".
This is a classic shamanic initiation. The reasons why Odin
might have thought it was a bright idea to hang Himself from
a tree and stab Himself with a spear are never really explained,
but in the context of this, do they really have to be? Odin
does not die, gets knowledge of the runes, and after this
has advanced as (at the very least) a shamanic practitioner.
Meanwhile, Freya is trying to find her erstwhile mortal
lover, and is wandering the earth Herself, littering it with
tears of gold and amber. They eventually meet up again, but
because of the "weregild" their less mature selves inflicted
on each other, the endless war still has to fulfill itself.
It's a given among the community that studies this that the
endless war is the one between the Huns and the Burgundians.
I won't repeat that story here. Suffice to say that Brynhild
and Sigurd (in the operas known as Sigfried) are central
characters in it. The parallels between this story and the
one I have just described are hard to ignore, but it is in
this version that we become familiar with the hero Sigfried
riding through the circle of fire to awaken and claim
Brynhild, who has been cast into an enchanted sleep for
allowing a warrior to win whom Odin didn't want to win.
In some ways, the lore of Asatru - the Eddas and Sagas - are
excellent examples of how NOT to behave. Most of the woe
in them comes from people who are greedy, selfish, or full
of a need for vengeance - people for whom there is no way
out because they have lost sight of the fact that love is the
way out of the maze. Freya has grimly paid her weregild to
Odin for "cheating" on Him, by weaving a fearsome lesson
into Her endless war...by forcing the story to repeat over
and over again, and showing the need for the "cheating" to
have to had taken place in the first place. Those who forget
to hold love in their hearts are the ones who cause all the
misunderstandings and eventual killings. Note that even in
the Poetic Edda, there is a part where Sigurd (married to
Gudrun) offers to "cheat on" her with Brynhild (who is married
to Gunnar) in order to avert coming disaster, and she VERY
IRONICALLY says no...in this case, the ironclad betrothals to
others are in place - and they DO remain the cause of the
eventual war! Freya is behind the scenes in all this and you
can practically hear Her saying, "All right, I'll give you
your endless war, Odin, but you aren't gonna LIKE it..!!!"
What can this mean today? Well, again, this is my own
opinion...quantum non-sequitur coming up. The Elfquest stories
of Wendy and Richard Pini have a concept in them called
"recognition". Essentially this is an instant psychic link
formed between two people who (supposedly) would be a good
evolutionary match for each other, and whose children would
supposedly have stronger abilities for survival. When I was
first shown these books (by the first man with which I had a
strong empathic link), even then they struck me as the best
possible explanation for what I was experiencing, and that
holds true today. The Alfar do have strong ties to the Vanir.
Frey (the Lord, Freya's brother) is king of the Alfar.
I think what Freya did when she set this endless war thing
up was she fixed it so that people who "got it right" would
have an opportunity to show themselves as either worthy to
receive higher abilities or not, and that those who didn't
quite get the "importance of love" thing would end up getting
culled, although if they'd gotten far enough along in the
process either they (via reincarnation) or their descendants
(if there were any) would always be given another chance.
Odin wanted spirit champions, who die to preserve troth. What
Freya wants are living ones, who live based on their choices
to turn away from greed, selfishness, wilful misunderstanding
and hateful vengeance - who will die to preserve honor, but
who will not wantonly kill another to do so. Those who sacrifice
themselves to Themselves win the cosmic prize of $1.98...as
Odin originally did. ;-7
Thus, when this sort of thing happens to a pair of people
who claim to serve the Deity of Love, it's basically that
Deity (whom I view as Freya, my patroness) saying "All right,
you wise guys...put your money where your mouths are. Here,
have a nice soap opera, here's your big chance to shine." :-/
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Di-a-rama <br...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message news:<as6iu3$m5i$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>> In article <3de69619$0$75602$e4fe...@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>,
>> SilverSong <Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>> >Seriously, I'm not sure which pattern you refer to. I recognise some
>> >patterns I'd say are Mythical/Archetypical, others are simply learned
>> >behaviour patterns, others are more definable with 'wounds'.
>>
>> Makes sense. This pattern is archtypical and myth(lore)-based.
>>
>> >The yearning bit certainly does, no clue for or to what, but it's there. I'm
>> >not too sure about the reborn thing,
>>
>> The appearance of both together (the reborn thing and the yearning thing)
>> is why I bothered piping up in the first place. It seemed to fit.
>>
>
>Maybe she has one of you soul parts.
Agreed.
>Anyway, yearning does not need to be love-based although it certainly
>seems to be fulfillment-/loss-based regardless of the circumstances.
I've found that romantic links between people are the most difficult
to break.
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
tamara <magikri...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>From: floen...@earthlink.net (FLORA)
>
>>Subject: Re: "Beloved" Animal Spirits
<snippums>
>>> >(who is tempted now to blow her now-runny nose on the tiny whte cat at
>>> >her feet...after all, he's gotta be good for something...)
>>>
>>> LOL, so true! ........ Run tiny white kitty run!! ; )
>>>
>>LOL
>>He's also pretty good as a napkin, too...
>>
>>FLORA
>>(And her somewhat damp-coated cats)
>
>*me thinks that the little white napkin is getting to your heart ; ) *
Muahahaha. Freya is also the Goddess of Cats.
And, incidentally, Tamara, also of Boars. ;-7
SilverSong
> In article <3de69619$0$75602$e4fe...@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>,
> SilverSong <Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >"She Devil With A Rubber Chicken" <reds...@liii.com> wrote in message
> >news:as63bi$goq$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net...
> >>
> >Hmm, contact with dwarves, choking on apples, being knocked out by a
> >hallicogenic substance and enter a very deep trance state? ;)
>
> Heeheeheeehee!!! Um, no...basically, it involves a circumstantial or
> forced separation from a very compatible person, a great deal of
> hardship and/or journeying in the physical/real world, an eventual
> accomplishment of some sort of quest or passing of a test, and then
> hooking up with the compatible person again.
Heheh, thought you didn't mean it that way ;p
But yeah, this I recognise.
> The bit with the dwarves relates to the story of how Freya got the
> Brisingamen. The apple/drug thing is a sleep spell that shows up
> overtly in the Sigfried/Brynhild story.
>
> The Celtic mythos has a lot of this too, but I've noticed there is a
> lot more star-crossed hoohah and a lot fewer happy endings there.
> Valkyries are not exactly Sidhe/Alfar/elves.
Heh, Sidhe aren't actually known for their overtly gentle nature.
> >Seriously, I'm not sure which pattern you refer to. I recognise some
> >patterns I'd say are Mythical/Archetypical, others are simply learned
> >behaviour patterns, others are more definable with 'wounds'.
>
> Makes sense. This pattern is archtypical and myth(lore)-based.
>
> >The yearning bit certainly does, no clue for or to what, but it's there.
I'm
> >not too sure about the reborn thing,
>
> The appearance of both together (the reborn thing and the yearning thing)
> is why I bothered piping up in the first place. It seemed to fit.
>
> >but if it means having continuously
> >having your sense of reality ripped to shreds periodically, than aye,
that
> >rings a massive bell.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by this.
I was thinking of another pattern than the one you mentioned, I think. The
one I implied was the massive storm like things, where most of ideas I have
of how things work and operate, the big "This is how it is", gets
periodically ripped from underneath me.
> >But please, I'm really interested in the tales, wether or not it
correlates
> >with what I'm seeing.
>
> Well, uh...as far as I can tell, the yearning stuff is there to strengthen
> the link between the two people. What they do with it is their decision.
> If it is possible for them to evolve to the point where they are using it
> for the purposes it was given to them, they can get great things done.
> But it only shows up under circumstances which force a situation where
> there's a lot of dissatisfaction with the way things are, and there can
> be a whole lot of misunderstandings.
>
> People who don't put love as their #1 priority are not going to be able
> to handle it. :-/
Hmm ..... ouch.
> I have my own thoughts on WHY this pattern occurs (at least, to those of
> us who are valkyries), why it repeats, and why it is constructed to
> create more annoying twists of wyrd than an entire team of soap opera
> writers could crank out in a year...but that would turn this into far
> longer a post than I want this to be, and it might be somewhat off-topic
> because it would get pretty verbose with Asatru-specific stuff. I've
> kinda tried to do the Readers Digest thing here, hope it still makes
> some sense.
Reading the other bits, yes it does. But I fail to grasp it in a form I can
use. I other words, I understand, but don't know what to do with the
understanding.
Y
SilverSong
;)
Thanks for sharing the tale.
SilverSong
and this really made good sense:
> I was advised to tell her to walk "beside" me, and not "in" me....and
directly
> saying this, seemed to help alot, as far as making that sadness fade...
Y
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
I respect Odin. He is one of my Gods, and He has gained painful wisdom
which He shares abundantly with those who follow Him. I honor Him for
the gifts He shares, and I enjoy making mead dedicated to Him and all
His Kin and Friends. He is the Allfather of the Aesir, and I am Asatru.
When I had the honor to attend a seidhr session with Diana Paxson and
she was ridden by Odin, I will not soon forget looking into that single,
firey eye. That was really the Old Man in there, and it was freakin'
scary. It was like looking into a blue star, that eye, full of ancient
wisdom and the fury for which the God is named. I was in awe. And then
I got to drink aquavit with Him, what a jazz!!! :)
I asked an interesting question while Diana was horsing Him. He said,
"I am Gandalf." So I said, "So who is Sauromon?" There was a pause, and
then he said, "My negative self. You see, it is all about power. When
I share my wisdom and power to help others, I am Gandalf. When I take
other's power and wisdom for my own use, and hoard it, I am Sauromon."
It is wise to be aware of Odin's dark side as well as His good side.
Odin is very seductive, friendly to those he favors, generous and
quite the party animal. It can be easy to forget His dark side exists.
There is a cycle of being between Freya and Odin, almost a friendly
rivalry. There was once much pain and hostility between these two as a
result of Freya's obtaining Brisingamen. They are old Gods with long
memories. During that selfsame seidhr session, Freya was at my shoulder,
and the Old Man was not going to be allowed to hop into my head while
She was looking on. ;-7 He also EMPHATICALLY showed up during my first
ever time in the chair, but I don't think He took over that time either.
We were doing 3 Norns style and I was Skuld, and I don't think She
wanted to move over for Him any more than Freya did!!
I think in part the endless repetition of this scenario throughout the
ages is not so much Freya trying to endlessly bust Odin's chops about
what happened before, as it is an attempt to address the problem via
evolution. Sooner or later someone is going to get it right, and then
the Gods will have their answer. Sometimes I feel like I am part of a
distributed compute farm, heehee.
One thing is certain, I am no Brynhild, and I will die before I let
deliberate harm come to the one who is my hero through me. I've proven
that in the past, and I'll prove it again if I have to. Whatever twist
of wyrd may come: no harm will come to him from any conscious, willful
act of mine. That I swear, upon my soul's sacred troth and my dedication
to Freya.
>Thanks for sharing the tale.
No prob. I hope it helped somewhat.
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
SilverSong <Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>> The Celtic mythos has a lot of this too, but I've noticed there is a
>> lot more star-crossed hoohah and a lot fewer happy endings there.
>> Valkyries are not exactly Sidhe/Alfar/elves.
>
>Heh, Sidhe aren't actually known for their overtly gentle nature.
They're definitely not human. Their emotions (and what trigger them) are
similar enough to be confusing, and different enough to be annoying. ;-7
>> >but if it means having continuously
>> >having your sense of reality ripped to shreds periodically, than aye,
>that
>> >rings a massive bell.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by this.
>
>I was thinking of another pattern than the one you mentioned, I think. The
>one I implied was the massive storm like things, where most of ideas I have
>of how things work and operate, the big "This is how it is", gets
>periodically ripped from underneath me.
And replaced with...what?
>> People who don't put love as their #1 priority are not going to be able
>> to handle it. :-/
>
>Hmm ..... ouch.
This is a purely personal perspective. Different tutelary deities may
have different agendas.
>> I have my own thoughts on WHY this pattern occurs (at least, to those of
>> us who are valkyries), why it repeats, and why it is constructed to
>> create more annoying twists of wyrd than an entire team of soap opera
>> writers could crank out in a year...but that would turn this into far
>> longer a post than I want this to be, and it might be somewhat off-topic
>> because it would get pretty verbose with Asatru-specific stuff. I've
>> kinda tried to do the Readers Digest thing here, hope it still makes
>> some sense.
>
>Reading the other bits, yes it does. But I fail to grasp it in a form I can
>use. I other words, I understand, but don't know what to do with the
>understanding.
I don't know what to tell you...insufficient information from your end. Does
not compute. :) How much overlap is there with the scenario I have described,
and yours? What are the differences, if any? What happens when you get this
"rug ripped out from under you"? I understand you have a privacy issue, and
I respect that. I am not asking to be nosy, but I can't really answer the
question with the information that's been given thus far.
SilverSong
> In article <3deb9f09$0$94310$e4fe...@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>,
> SilverSong <Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >Heh, Sidhe aren't actually known for their overtly gentle nature.
>
> They're definitely not human. Their emotions (and what trigger them) are
> similar enough to be confusing, and different enough to be annoying. ;-7
Heh, terms that come to mind are 'haughty', 'lofty' and 'regal'. Tolkien had
them express too much outward emotion, recognisable too, I think ;)
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by this.
> >
> >I was thinking of another pattern than the one you mentioned, I think.
The
> >one I implied was the massive storm like things, where most of ideas I
have
> >of how things work and operate, the big "This is how it is", gets
> >periodically ripped from underneath me.
>
> And replaced with...what?
When I'm in the process and fully into it, one image or vision that best
captures the essence is that of a massive storm and flood ripping through a
forest. Each tree is an idea, a belief, and established theory. At the end
of the raging storm, some trees are simply no longer there, some are broken,
twisted and dying, while others remain standing and now have more room to
grow. Untill the next storm comes by.
It's a major Culling. It's harsh, tough, but when it's over, it's a fresh
start and I'm rid of a lot of illusions and thoughts that go nowhere in
roundabout ways. (and yeah, I'm slightly masochistic in that sense ;)
> >> People who don't put love as their #1 priority are not going to be able
> >> to handle it. :-/
> >
> >Hmm ..... ouch.
>
> This is a purely personal perspective. Different tutelary deities may
> have different agendas.
'Love' seems so much an overly abused word to me. Won't go into the history
of it, there's no point to it here. Last weekend at a workshop, the teachers
were working with Love, Unconditional Love. For the first couple of hours I
didn't really feel emotionally attached to the concept or the principle, let
alone the energies that were flowing to and fro. It was far more a form of
Energy than of an emotional state.
Things happened though, it kept being repeated to give and receive Love to
all life, including your self. That's when something got triggered, when I
realized that, well, it's okay.
I said it before here on the ng, that I feel more sympathetic to the more
darker archetypes or principles. Hells, my closests and earliest allies or
Power Animals are those that are both feared and respected.
Thing was, I began to recognise it. Again, it's a bit much to go into here,
but let's just say that I don't think I was too wrong when I felt this Love
as an energy. But the energy itself doesn't have to only be felt in one way,
with one association. I was wrong in assuming that it does.
A bit of a sidetrack, but it was confusing to feel a kind of love towards
people I fought in martial arts competition. I treated it as if it was a
mutually fought for form of respect, but didn't relate it to this
Love-thing. It was too different from what I was told what love was all
about.
Bottom line though, it is my number one priority, I'm just beginning to
become aware that it's expressed through my own and unique way. I won't say
if it's very different than for other people, I don't think it matters even
if it is or isn't. Tricky bit of it though, is that I haven't found many
people able to recognise it, which doesn't really help in acknowledging it's
there in the first place.
(One gnarled old tree got ripped out and tossed aside, clearing the way for
a young sapling, halfway the shadows and a beam of light entering through
the foliage)
> I don't know what to tell you...insufficient information from your end.
Does
> not compute. :) How much overlap is there with the scenario I have
described,
> and yours? What are the differences, if any? What happens when you get
this
> "rug ripped out from under you"? I understand you have a privacy issue,
and
> I respect that. I am not asking to be nosy, but I can't really answer the
> question with the information that's been given thus far.
Well, basically I am running the pattern of going for the impossible
relationships. At first it were the kinds where the girl was needy, in
trouble and out of my league (social ladders being important to me at the
time). When I helped them deal with their problems, I was full of hope that
we could get started from that perspective, only to see them run real fast
back into the situations that caused their problems in the first place.
For the last 5 odd years or so, it's been a situation similar to that, only
the situation she's running back to is at the same place I am. Meaning it's
an on-off relationship, can't be together, can't be apart sorta thing.
All in all, what I think is reflected in it the most, is the
self-sacrificing bit Odin is doing.
Boy meets wild girl.
Girl gets the repurcussions of some of her actions.
Boy and girl meet and exchange.
Girl is true to her ways and goes on walkabout herself.
Boy is crushed and goes hang himself.
Boy is reborn and has integrated and dealt with the experience.
Boy meets wild girl.
...
Geez, no wonder Odin is grey-haired and oft-gnarled.
Y
Di-a-rama
3dec9977$0$75625$e4fe...@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl, "SilverSong"
<Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> 'Love' seems so much an overly abused word to me. Won't go into the history
> of it, there's no point to it here. Last weekend at a workshop, the teachers
> were working with Love, Unconditional Love. For the first couple of hours I
> didn't really feel emotionally attached to the concept or the principle, let
> alone the energies that were flowing to and fro. It was far more a form of
> Energy than of an emotional state.
> Things happened though, it kept being repeated to give and receive Love to
> all life, including your self. That's when something got triggered, when I
> realized that, well, it's okay.
<snip>
>
> Bottom line though, it is my number one priority, I'm just beginning to
> become aware that it's expressed through my own and unique way. I won't say
> if it's very different than for other people, I don't think it matters even
> if it is or isn't. Tricky bit of it though, is that I haven't found many
> people able to recognise it, which doesn't really help in acknowledging it's
> there in the first place.
I think many of us have this problem. So many people think love equals
affection (lovers, parent-child, friends, etc.). The kind of love that
transcends the boundaries of relationships can contain things that appear to
be non-loving. The hardest part is to keep the love flowing even when
people hate you. Keeping the love flowing under harsh circumstances is also
one of the most loving things one can do. I know this sounds really
Christian, but as I've already said in previous posts, I'm not averse to
the teachings of Christ per se. To me, unconditional love is a fairly
uniform concept (even if it is not uniformly applied!), at least in the
western world.
An adjunct to love is judgment. Judging can filter the love so it is no
longer unconditional. However, I'm finding I can have a judgmental opinion
about certain things and still be loving. I guess a certain level
discernment is still important in my mind.
Cheers,
Dianne
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
SilverSong <Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>"She Devil With A Rubber Chicken" <reds...@liii.com> wrote in message
>news:asgmkn$buv$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net...
>> In article <3deb9f09$0$94310$e4fe...@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>,
>> SilverSong <Silverson...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>> >Heh, Sidhe aren't actually known for their overtly gentle nature.
>>
>> They're definitely not human. Their emotions (and what trigger them) are
>> similar enough to be confusing, and different enough to be annoying. ;-7
>
>Heh, terms that come to mind are 'haughty', 'lofty' and 'regal'. Tolkien had
>them express too much outward emotion, recognisable too, I think ;)
My interaction with them has been a bit more friendly than I would have
expected. I am not sure why. Perhaps it is because I view them with
admiration. The general impression I get from the sidhe is that they find
me (and others like me) amusing. This may or may not be a good thing,
depending on the situation. However, there is also a sense of their
knowing that I have a very good relationship with someone who is
important to most of them. I think this is the reason why in general I
am treated with more kindness and concern than I should reasonably expect.
Also the Unseelie court is rather different than the Seelie court. It
can be dangerous to generalize with the Sidhe.
>> >> I'm not sure what you mean by this.
>> >
>> >I was thinking of another pattern than the one you mentioned, I think.
>The
>> >one I implied was the massive storm like things, where most of ideas I
>have
>> >of how things work and operate, the big "This is how it is", gets
>> >periodically ripped from underneath me.
>>
>> And replaced with...what?
>
>When I'm in the process and fully into it, one image or vision that best
>captures the essence is that of a massive storm and flood ripping through a
>forest. Each tree is an idea, a belief, and established theory. At the end
>of the raging storm, some trees are simply no longer there, some are broken,
>twisted and dying, while others remain standing and now have more room to
>grow. Untill the next storm comes by.
>It's a major Culling. It's harsh, tough, but when it's over, it's a fresh
>start and I'm rid of a lot of illusions and thoughts that go nowhere in
>roundabout ways. (and yeah, I'm slightly masochistic in that sense ;)
Do you bring this on, or does it just happen without warning? Do you feel
the ideas that don't remain are by definition ones that need to go away
simply because they didn't survive? It doesn't sound particularily healthy,
almost more like some sort of seizure or attack.
>> >> People who don't put love as their #1 priority are not going to be able
>> >> to handle it. :-/
>> >
>> >Hmm ..... ouch.
>>
>> This is a purely personal perspective. Different tutelary deities may
>> have different agendas.
>
>'Love' seems so much an overly abused word to me. Won't go into the history
>of it, there's no point to it here. Last weekend at a workshop, the teachers
>were working with Love, Unconditional Love. For the first couple of hours I
>didn't really feel emotionally attached to the concept or the principle, let
>alone the energies that were flowing to and fro. It was far more a form of
>Energy than of an emotional state.
This sounds very strange. "Working with love at a workshop..." I am not
surprised it didn't work. That's like saying you want Chateau Briand with
an accompanying 6 courses and an '83 Pouilly Fuisse from McDonald's. If
people or things you really love are not present, you can't just whip the
emotion associated with them out of your butt.
>Things happened though, it kept being repeated to give and receive Love to
>all life, including your self. That's when something got triggered, when I
>realized that, well, it's okay.
See, then you found that you have a love which is present for yourself,
and it began working. You brought the food with you. And it was a Happy
Meal. Heehee.
>I said it before here on the ng, that I feel more sympathetic to the more
>darker archetypes or principles. Hells, my closests and earliest allies or
>Power Animals are those that are both feared and respected.
I don't number many herbivores among mine, either. ;-7
>Thing was, I began to recognise it. Again, it's a bit much to go into here,
>but let's just say that I don't think I was too wrong when I felt this Love
>as an energy. But the energy itself doesn't have to only be felt in one way,
>with one association. I was wrong in assuming that it does.
Agreed.
>A bit of a sidetrack, but it was confusing to feel a kind of love towards
>people I fought in martial arts competition. I treated it as if it was a
>mutually fought for form of respect, but didn't relate it to this
>Love-thing. It was too different from what I was told what love was all
>about.
My husband said that the spirit of camraderie in his kung fu class almost
approached that of another family. I guess that is what you are talking
about.
Ah. This sounds like the story of Njord and Skadhi. Skadhi is a Goddess of
winter. She is a clever huntress, named for the snowshoes She is said to
have invented. Skadhi showed up at the Aesir's doorstep, demanding
recompense for the slaying of Her father, a Jotun. As part of the agreement
Skadhi married Njord, who is said to be the God of summer, the sea, safe
harbors. Skadhi and Njord got along well, but neither of them could stand
to live where the other one was most comfortable, so they had to part ways.
There are some similarities in this to the story of Hades and Persephone.
>All in all, what I think is reflected in it the most, is the
>self-sacrificing bit Odin is doing.
>Boy meets wild girl.
>Girl gets the repurcussions of some of her actions.
>Boy and girl meet and exchange.
>Girl is true to her ways and goes on walkabout herself.
>Boy is crushed and goes hang himself.
>Boy is reborn and has integrated and dealt with the experience.
>Boy meets wild girl.
>...
There is also this: I was once approached by the gydhia of my kindred,
who stated "Every Freya's godhi or gydhia I know has had the most
screwed up love life!!!" I did not have to wait long for my answer from
my Patroness. It's really simple. If you have not experienced the highest
of the highs; the depths of the depths; and all the varieties of love
that there are; from the innocent love of a child or a pet; to that
which lovers share, to the love of a place, etc...then how are you
going to be able to tell your community "I am a Freya's woman or man"
and be able to help them to understand your Goddess, and/or the problems
they might be having in their own relationships?!? This is one of
the reasons I can handle the psychic rollercoaster I'm on and maintain
myself (more or less). I've had so many crazy and painful experiences
in previous relationships that as painful as this one can get at times,
it alone won't kill me.
>Geez, no wonder Odin is grey-haired and oft-gnarled.
Odin's own words and most painful lesson:
Wise in measure let each man be;
but let him not wax too wise;
for never the happiest of men is he
who knows much of many things.
Wise in measure should each man be;
but let him not wax too wise;
seldom a heart will sing with joy
if the owner be all too wise.
Wise in measure should each man be,
but ne'er let him wax too wise:
who looks not forward to learn his fate
unburdened heart will bear.
Di-a-rama
Devil With A Rubber Chicken" <reds...@liii.com> wrote:
>> It's a major Culling. It's harsh, tough, but when it's over, it's a fresh
>> start and I'm rid of a lot of illusions and thoughts that go nowhere in
>> roundabout ways. (and yeah, I'm slightly masochistic in that sense ;)
>
> Do you bring this on, or does it just happen without warning? Do you feel
> the ideas that don't remain are by definition ones that need to go away
> simply because they didn't survive? It doesn't sound particularily healthy,
> almost more like some sort of seizure or attack.
Astrologically, people with strong Scorpio or Pluto energy are not only used
to such transformations, they are somewhat the norm. In a way, it is
healthier to allow it to occur on an inner plane rather than allow it to
play out in hurtful dramas in the mundane world.
Cheers,
Dianne
Di-a-rama
Devil With A Rubber Chicken" <reds...@liii.com> wrote:
> See, then you found that you have a love which is present for yourself,
> and it began working. You brought the food with you. And it was a Happy
> Meal. Heehee.
I wonder which toy came with that?
SilverSong
> Also the Unseelie court is rather different than the Seelie court. It
> can be dangerous to generalize with the Sidhe.
Aye. I haven't found my way back yet, but I know there's a big difference
between the two.
> >It's a major Culling. It's harsh, tough, but when it's over, it's a fresh
> >start and I'm rid of a lot of illusions and thoughts that go nowhere in
> >roundabout ways. (and yeah, I'm slightly masochistic in that sense ;)
>
> Do you bring this on, or does it just happen without warning? Do you feel
> the ideas that don't remain are by definition ones that need to go away
> simply because they didn't survive? It doesn't sound particularily
healthy,
> almost more like some sort of seizure or attack.
It's linked with physical stuff most of the time, at least when I'm not
aware of it happening. If I am, I can set some time apart and work on it
without it slamming me on the head and leaving me clueless :)
In a way though, it's a somewhat involuntary form of brainstorming, hence
the usage of the storm as imagery and connecting energyform. But yes, that
which doesn't remain is by definition that which needed to clear out. You're
right too that it's a kind of seizure or attack, only it's not swift, it can
take a few days, weeks even. Last real big one lasted three months, and I
wasn't aware of it happening unfortunately.
The last one, which was something I was aware of, happened a few weeks ago.
Still working through that one.
> This sounds very strange. "Working with love at a workshop..." I am not
> surprised it didn't work. That's like saying you want Chateau Briand with
> an accompanying 6 courses and an '83 Pouilly Fuisse from McDonald's. If
> people or things you really love are not present, you can't just whip the
> emotion associated with them out of your butt.
Heheh. Nah, it wasn't really that. Basically it was rather scientific, with
the idea being that the Universal Energy thing actually is Love. Mind you,
it's in a raw form, it becomes more or less the real deal once it gets to
interact with people.
> >Things happened though, it kept being repeated to give and receive Love
to
> >all life, including your self. That's when something got triggered, when
I
> >realized that, well, it's okay.
>
> See, then you found that you have a love which is present for yourself,
> and it began working. You brought the food with you. And it was a Happy
> Meal. Heehee.
With my luck, the little toy would be Goofy or somesuch.
> >I said it before here on the ng, that I feel more sympathetic to the more
> >darker archetypes or principles. Hells, my closests and earliest allies
or
> >Power Animals are those that are both feared and respected.
>
> I don't number many herbivores among mine, either. ;-7
Never would have thought ;)
> My husband said that the spirit of camraderie in his kung fu class almost
> approached that of another family. I guess that is what you are talking
> about.
That too, there's definately a family feeling to a close nit group of
practinioners. But it's like you see two boxers first beating the crap out
of each other, then afterwards hugging. It's genuine, and very hard to
understand for a lot of people.
> Ah. This sounds like the story of Njord and Skadhi. Skadhi is a Goddess of
> winter. She is a clever huntress, named for the snowshoes She is said to
> have invented. Skadhi showed up at the Aesir's doorstep, demanding
> recompense for the slaying of Her father, a Jotun. As part of the
agreement
> Skadhi married Njord, who is said to be the God of summer, the sea, safe
> harbors. Skadhi and Njord got along well, but neither of them could stand
> to live where the other one was most comfortable, so they had to part
ways.
> There are some similarities in this to the story of Hades and Persephone.
Sounds about my theme, aye.
> There is also this: I was once approached by the gydhia of my kindred,
> who stated "Every Freya's godhi or gydhia I know has had the most
> screwed up love life!!!" I did not have to wait long for my answer from
> my Patroness. It's really simple. If you have not experienced the highest
> of the highs; the depths of the depths; and all the varieties of love
> that there are; from the innocent love of a child or a pet; to that
> which lovers share, to the love of a place, etc...then how are you
> going to be able to tell your community "I am a Freya's woman or man"
> and be able to help them to understand your Goddess, and/or the problems
> they might be having in their own relationships?!? This is one of
> the reasons I can handle the psychic rollercoaster I'm on and maintain
> myself (more or less). I've had so many crazy and painful experiences
> in previous relationships that as painful as this one can get at times,
> it alone won't kill me.
Unfortunately, it nearly did me, back in the days.
> >Geez, no wonder Odin is grey-haired and oft-gnarled.
>
> Odin's own words and most painful lesson:
>
> Wise in measure let each man be;
> but let him not wax too wise;
> for never the happiest of men is he
> who knows much of many things.
>
> Wise in measure should each man be;
> but let him not wax too wise;
> seldom a heart will sing with joy
> if the owner be all too wise.
>
> Wise in measure should each man be,
> but ne'er let him wax too wise:
> who looks not forward to learn his fate
> unburdened heart will bear.
Heh, thing is, he's right, I know it, but that doesn't change much.
Thanks.
Y