Ellie Perkins

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Tanya Durni

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Jun 2, 2003, 5:09:47 PM6/2/03
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Did anyone know her?

IDA J 007

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Jun 2, 2003, 10:28:04 PM6/2/03
to
>Subject: Ellie Perkins
>From: Tanya Durni tdu...@rochester.rr.com
>Date: 06/02/2003 2:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3EDBBD1B...@rochester.rr.com>
>
>Did anyone know her?
>
Tanya;

I did not know her . She was probably clear #13072 and I believe she came from
Buffalo New York.
That information is from the late 70's.

Ida Camburn


The only thing truly within our power,
may be whether or not we will behave
in each moment with arrogance or reverence.
--Lawrence Kushner

Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net

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Jun 4, 2003, 1:00:09 AM6/4/03
to
On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 21:09:47 GMT, Tanya Durni
<tdu...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:

>Did anyone know her?

I've received this:

[START}
To: a...@xenu.net
Subject: Ellie Perkins

Hi,
Someone recently requested info on Elie Perkins. I can not find
that posting so....
She was killed March 13th., 2003 by her son, Jeremy Perkins. A
dreadful thing to say the least. She lived in Amherst, NY and
this was reported by the Buffalo News on 3/14/03.
I'd prefer my identity was kept private. I would be willing to
fill in some details privately.
Thanks
[END]

Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund # home.online.no/~heldal # www.xenu.net
Ph: +47 8800 6666 # Addr: Postboks 131, N-4098 Tananger, Norway
---------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone can show me, and prove to me, that I am wrong in
thought or deed, I will gladly change. I seek the truth, which
never yet hurt anybody. It is only persistence in self-delusion
and ignorance which does harm.
------------------------------------------[Marcus Aurelius]----

Michael 'Mike' Gormez

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Jun 4, 2003, 10:29:52 AM6/4/03
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In article <o4vqdvsb3cnalphcm...@4ax.com> , Andreas

Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote:

>I've received this:
>
>[START}
>To: a...@xenu.net
>Subject: Ellie Perkins
>
>Hi,
>Someone recently requested info on Elie Perkins. I can not find
>that posting so....
>She was killed March 13th., 2003 by her son, Jeremy Perkins. A
>dreadful thing to say the least. She lived in Amherst, NY and
>this was reported by the Buffalo News on 3/14/03.
>I'd prefer my identity was kept private. I would be willing to
>fill in some details privately.
>Thanks
>[END]


This is just a teaser, not the full article. They want money for it:

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_action=list&p_topdoc=41

SON ARRESTED IN WOMAN'S FATAL KNIFING
Article 47 of 59 found.
Published on March 14, 2003

433 words
T.J. PIGNATARO - News Staff Reporter


An argument that exploded Thursday morning ended in the death of an
Amherst woman who was stabbed by her 28-year-old son, police said.


The body of Elli Perkins, 54, was discovered on a bedroom floor of her
home in the 1400 block of Hopkins Road about 10:30 a.m., Amherst Police
Chief John J. Moslow said. She had been stabbed several times in the
chest, police said. An autopsy is being conducted.

Jeremy M. Perkins was arraigned late Thursday before Amherst Town Justice
Geoffrey K. Klein on
====


This seems to have the entire article
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=79687vcs3qllj8ergjk13eldcjfir34cj9%404ax.com&output=gplain

Here is their site
http://www.glassartisans.com/


Mike Gormez

- Scientology and health - www.whyaretheydead.net
- Some books - http://members.chello.nl/mgormez/books/
- Visit Occupied Clearwater with Nessie http://nessie.psychassualt.org/
- The story of Vivien http://www.whyaretheydead.net/childabuse/vivien/

Michael 'Mike' Gormez

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Jun 4, 2003, 6:49:13 PM6/4/03
to
In article <3EDBBD1B...@rochester.rr.com> , Tanya Durni
<tdu...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:

>Did anyone know her?

No. So just a question, is it for sure the scientologist Elli who was
killed by her son and not some name-a-like? Also, does anyone know in case
of a positive ID, whether or not Scientology was used on her son?

I hope not but we have seen in the past that they don't give a damn about
pushing someone over the edge. This case immediatly reminded me of Gary
Don Beals, who stabbed his father and then shot him to death.


Also I am reminded to the convicted murderer by the name of John S. Prout,
who slit his wife's throat, He killed Elisabeth Raeder Prout while asleep
in their Glenham home, according to a newspaper clipping sent to me years
ago, But I have never been able to prove he's a scientologist.

Mike Gormez

- Scientology and health www.whyaretheydead.net
- 'Religious' child abuse and neglect www.taxexemptchildabuse.net


- Visit Occupied Clearwater with Nessie http://nessie.psychassualt.org/

- The hearing transcripts http://whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/bob/

Bedford McIntosh

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Jun 4, 2003, 9:04:31 PM6/4/03
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Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net <hel...@online.no> wrote in message news:<o4vqdvsb3cnalphcm...@4ax.com>...

>> Someone recently requested info on Elie Perkins. I can not find
> that posting so....
> She was killed March 13th., 2003 by her son, Jeremy Perkins.

According to this post:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T274120D4
...a Jeremy Perkins once had a personal Scientology page. I haven't
been able to find any other source for it.

Elli Perkins also had a page once, according to archive.org (where she
shows up on an archived Scn-online, New York "p's" page), but her
personal page was not archived. It is no longer among the current
Scn-online pages.

ptsc

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Jun 4, 2003, 9:11:57 PM6/4/03
to

Here are some other Perkinses including Jeremy. Even this "big win" story
seems to indicate that he was a troubled individual.

Name: Jeremy Perkins
URL: www.our-home.org/jeremyperkins/index.htm
Picture: None
Hello, my name is Jeremy Perkins, and here is a little bit about
myself: I am 23 years old and I have been in Scientology all my
life. I work for my parents, who are both Scientologists. I also
play the drums. If it weren't for my parents being Scientologists
and them showing me the way, I would have gotten into a lot more
trouble than I have. Scientology works. I am presently on a course
where I use an E-Meter which is quite fun and I will audit with
it soon.
Success:
Scientology has helped me be more in control of my life. It has
made me aware of what is going on in my environment. Scientology
has also shown me what lies ahead for the future.

Myself:

Name: Tom Perkins
URL: myreligion.scientology.org/tomperkins/index.htm
Picture: None
Myself:
Hello, my name is Tom Perkins, and here is a little bit about
myself: I'm a free lance design consultant and have been in the
business for over twenty years. I specialize in designing petro
chemical process plants. I am also the happy father of a beautiful
eleven year old daughter and I have been a Scientologist for 24
years.
Success:
Prior to Scientology life seemed dull. Since I've been in Scientology
I'm more alert, brighter, and more cognizant of all the aspects
of life.


Name: Gilbert Perkins
URL: www.oursites.org/gilbertperkins/index.htm
Picture: None
Myself:
Hello, my name is Gilbert Perkins, and here is a little bit about
myself: I got into Scientology by going to a meeting on depression.
They gave a list of books to read. Toward the end of the meeting,
a gentleman in a blue suit stood up and recommended the book Dianetics:
The Modern Science of Mental Health . Then I read it. I knew that
it was the trail I wanted to follow. I have read several books
recommended by psychiatrists and I found that they didn't make
too much sense. As well, those who recommended them seemed to
be walking around confused themselves. I would read Dianetics
out loud to my wife and we realized before we got very far into
the book that this was for us.
Success:
As of this time, I have been processed to the State of Clear*.
I have read and enjoyed many of L. Ron Hubbard's books. I have
listened to and enjoyed many of his audio tapes and because of
all this, I am more capable to help people with their problems,
and my problems are much smaller. I also have a much better
understanding
of life. * Clear : the name of a state achieved through auditing**
or an individual who has achieved this state. A Clear is a being
who no longer has his own reactive mind. A Clear is an unaberrated
person and is rational in that he forms the best possible solutions
he can on the data he has and from his viewpoint. The Clear has
no engrams which can be restimulated to throw out the correctness
of computation by entering hidden and false data. ** Auditing
: the application of Dianetics or Scientology processes and procedures
to someone by a trained auditor. The exact definition of auditing
is: The action of asking a person a question (which he can understand
and answer), getting an answer to that question and acknowledging
him for that answer.


Name: Tony Perkins
URL: www.oursites.org/tonyperkins/index.htm
Picture: None
Myself:
Hello, my name is Tony Perkins, and here is a little bit about
myself: I am a chartered accountant working for an investment
bank in the city of London. I got into Scientology when travelling
in the US.
Success:
When I first came into Scientology I did a communication course.
I realized that I had been going through life not really communicating.
Things really changed when I started to actually be able to talk
to people and listen as well.

Michael 'Mike' Gormez

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Jun 5, 2003, 12:52:23 AM6/5/03
to
In article <u36tdvkb0u6ao0p64...@4ax.com> , ptsc
<pt...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Bingo! Page is gone.

>Name: Jeremy Perkins
>URL: www.our-home.org/jeremyperkins/index.htm
>Picture: None
> Hello, my name is Jeremy Perkins, and here is a little bit about
> myself: I am 23 years old and I have been in Scientology all my
> life. I work for my parents, who are both Scientologists. I also
> play the drums. If it weren't for my parents being Scientologists
> and them showing me the way, I would have gotten into a lot more
> trouble than I have. Scientology works. I am presently on a course
> where I use an E-Meter which is quite fun and I will audit with
> it soon.
>Success:
> Scientology has helped me be more in control of my life. It has
> made me aware of what is going on in my environment. Scientology
> has also shown me what lies ahead for the future.


They are quick this time! Sadly neither archive.org nor Google has a cache
of the page. This does beg the questions whether a periodic backup of that
site needs to be made. CDs are cheap and this is lost forever.

ptsc

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Jun 5, 2003, 2:10:55 AM6/5/03
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On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:52:23 +0200, Michael 'Mike' Gormez
<mik...@SPAMwhyaretheydead.net> wrote:

>In article <u36tdvkb0u6ao0p64...@4ax.com> , ptsc
><pt...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>Bingo! Page is gone.

It's probably been gone a while.

>>Name: Jeremy Perkins
>>URL: www.our-home.org/jeremyperkins/index.htm
>>Picture: None
>> Hello, my name is Jeremy Perkins, and here is a little bit about
>> myself: I am 23 years old and I have been in Scientology all my
>> life. I work for my parents, who are both Scientologists. I also
>> play the drums. If it weren't for my parents being Scientologists
>> and them showing me the way, I would have gotten into a lot more
>> trouble than I have. Scientology works. I am presently on a course
>> where I use an E-Meter which is quite fun and I will audit with
>> it soon.
>>Success:
>> Scientology has helped me be more in control of my life. It has
>> made me aware of what is going on in my environment. Scientology
>> has also shown me what lies ahead for the future.

>They are quick this time! Sadly neither archive.org nor Google has a cache

Not necessarily. This was taken from a backup from July or August of 1998.

>of the page. This does beg the questions whether a periodic backup of that
>site needs to be made. CDs are cheap and this is lost forever.

I think that all those sites should be periodically backed up and copies
retained. I'm not sure whether anyone is doing this at present.

Tanya Durni

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Jun 5, 2003, 6:01:34 AM6/5/03
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Michael 'Mike' Gormez wrote:
> In article <3EDBBD1B...@rochester.rr.com> , Tanya Durni
> <tdu...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Did anyone know her?
>
>
> No. So just a question, is it for sure the scientologist Elli who was
> killed by her son and not some name-a-like? Also, does anyone know in case
> of a positive ID, whether or not Scientology was used on her son?

I was told about this tragedy. I just thought I would find out if
anyone else knew about it. Yes the whole family is/was practicing
scientologists. I will see if I can find out more.

I have reason to believe that CofS of Buffalo was/is actually using the
tragedy to try to bring scientologists in for group processing and
auditing.

>
> I hope not but we have seen in the past that they don't give a damn about
> pushing someone over the edge.

I whole heartily agree with this statement.

Tigger

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Jun 5, 2003, 9:05:47 AM6/5/03
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Spelling "ELLI"

Artisans Glass in Sunrise Creations
Address:http://www.rubylane.com/shops/sunrisecreate/ilist/,cs=Artisans:Glass,id=1.2.html
Changed:7:03 AM on Thursday, June 5, 2003

ka...@wwwaif.net

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Jun 5, 2003, 12:51:01 PM6/5/03
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booboo...@webtv.net (Tigger) wrote in
news:12731-3ED...@storefull-2275.public.lawson.webtv.net:

> Spelling "ELLI"
>
> Artisans Glass in Sunrise Creations
> Address:http://www.rubylane.com/shops/sunrisecreate/ilist/,cs=Artisans:Gl

> ass,id=1.2.html Changed:7:03 AM on Thursday, June 5, 2003
>

Just filling in some of the gaps with this story, which I don't believe has
been posted:

(from http://216.239.57.100/search?
q=cache:duk1yrSkAwwJ:www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20030418/4029536.asp+%
22ellie+perkins%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

Man held in mom's slaying to get psychiatric tests

4/18/2003
Jeremy M. Perkins, 28, a mentally troubled Amherst man, was ordered
Thursday to remain jailed without bail pending grand jury proceedings over
the fatal stabbing of his mother last month.

Amherst Town Justice Mark G. Farrell, after testimony from two Amherst
police officers, ruled that there is "reasonable cause" to support
prosecution claims that Perkins fatally stabbed his mother, Ellie Perkins,
54, in the family's Hopkins Road home March 13.

John R. Nuchereno, Perkins' lawyer, said he hopes that a scheduled April 30
psychiatric examination of his jailed client will convince prosecutors that
Perkins lacks the mental capacity to be criminally convicted in his
mother's death.

Farrell ruled Thursday that police testimony on statements Perkins
allegedly made to police following the March 13 incident justified grand
jury action.

Perkins has a history of paranoid schizophrenia his family reportedly was
treating with vitamins and some medical therapy.

----

And, more recently:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20030605/6042283.asp

Grand jury indicts son in fatal stabbing of mother

6/5/2003
Jeremy M. Perkins of Amherst was indicted Wednesday by an Erie County
grand jury, charged with murdering his mother three months ago.

Perkins, 28, was arrested March 13, several hours after his mother, Ellie
Perkins, 54, was killed in the family's home in the 1400 block of Hopkins
Road. At his arraignment, he was ordered to remain jailed without bail at
his arraignment.

John R. Nuchereno, Perkins' attorney, entered a not guilty plea on his
behalf before Erie County Judge Michael F. Pietruszka.

Homicide prosecutor Kenneth Forrest Case told the judge Perkins was
indicted on two counts of second-degree murder and weapons charges for
allegedly stabbing his mother 77 times. After the brief court session,
Nuchereno said the stabbing "was the working of a 28-year-old mind which is
very, very ill."

Perkins, who was recently found mentally fit for court proceedings by two
court-assigned psychiatric experts, has a history of paranoid schizophrenia
that his family reportedly was treating with vitamins and some medical
therapy.


----

What an incredibly sad story. Treating schizophrenia with "vitamins" -
great idea there, guys. Wonder if they got that advice from Minkoff the
Wonder Quack, who is involved with an autism "cure" snake-oil vitamin ring,
if I recall correctly.

BTW, according to my records, Elli did the False Purpose Rundown circa
February 1989, and took a PTS/SP course in September 2002, and her little
glass shop was listed in the WISE directory at one point. (I believe 1998,
but the list I have is, annoyingly, undated.)

Jeremy's father and Elli's husband appears to be Don Perkins, based on
address correlation -- Don is listed in the 2001 WISE at the same address
as Elli's 1998 entry. No comps for Don that I can see, although he was on
staff at the Buffalo org in 1974, so he's an old-timer. No comps at all for
Jeremy; just the Online Scientologist page. Of course, if he was on staff
as well, they might not be listed - but then he wouldn't have an OS page.

K

Chris Leithiser

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Jun 5, 2003, 1:31:10 PM6/5/03
to
"ka...@wwwaif.net" wrote:

> (from http://216.239.57.100/search?
> q=cache:duk1yrSkAwwJ:www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20030418/4029536.asp+%
> 22ellie+perkins%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
>
> Man held in mom's slaying to get psychiatric tests
>
> 4/18/2003
> Jeremy M. Perkins, 28, a mentally troubled Amherst man, was ordered
> Thursday to remain jailed without bail pending grand jury proceedings over
> the fatal stabbing of his mother last month.
>

Seems every time a $cientologist is harmed, it's another $cientologist
who did it.

barb

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Jun 5, 2003, 2:43:48 PM6/5/03
to
"Vitamins and medical therapy?"
Sounds a bit $cientological to me...


--
--
barb
Chaplain, ARS

"After over 50 years, what has Scientology given the world? Misery,
hopelessness, broken families, desolation, death."
-Shydavid

"I remember when my son said "Every day should be Mother's Day." But
those were the days before L Ron Hubbard came into his life."

--Ida Camburn

"My English is surely better than yours. It's probably your personal
problem that you don't understand my postings. Instead of attacking me,
I would get some education, if I would be you."

--Barbara Schwarz, born in the USA

ptsc

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Jun 5, 2003, 5:33:34 PM6/5/03
to
On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 23:08:11 +0200, Tilman Hausherr <til...@berlin.snafu.de>
wrote:

>X-No-Archive: Yes

>On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:10:55 GMT, ptsc <pt...@nowhere.com> wrote in
><nkntdv84hrprnmm78...@4ax.com>:

>>Not necessarily. This was taken from a backup from July or August of 1998.

>Does this backup have "Mirko Otto" too?
>http://sites.myhomepage.org/mirkootto
>This was the guy who followed Rev. Gandow, his wife and Gerry Armstrong
>on the Autobahn, was stopped by the police, and then fined for
>telephoning while driving.

It doesn't, although it does have a Kim Otto and a Michael Mirko.

Michael 'Mike' Gormez

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Jun 6, 2003, 9:57:47 AM6/6/03
to
This is about Elli, someone pointed me to it. Incidentally this is yet
another case of someone with cancer who was audited.


http://www.google.com/groups?selm=7c7bf58e.0306041459.6695c0a%40posting.google.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

From: Khe...@yahoo.com (Kheinsa)
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology
Subject: My first auditor
Date: 4 Jun 2003 15:59:19 -0700
Message-ID: <7c7bf58e.0306...@posting.google.com>

I just found this.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=79687vcs3qllj8ergjk13eldcjfir34cj9%404ax.com&output=gplain

She was a wonderful person. I knew Jeremy too. I worked with him and
I can't believe it.

This is the 2nd major death at this org in the last few months.

Both were long time members. Both were wonderful people.

She is why I stuck with the tech as back in the 70's she had me in an
intro session. I recalled something I had forgotten, she used the
meter to find it. Then I knew the tech worked.

She was to be my auditor when I had the cancer. Unfortunetly I was
sent to ASHO instead. I wish I had her now.

May she go to the next time around with peace. Maybe she will help my
mom.

Jeremy was a nice soul and I made him laugh on the M1 course.

I just wanted to say this. Something is wrong. Don't say it is the
tech fault either. Something else wrong.

The tech as Ron wrote it works but something is really wrong. The
other death was by an accident if I remember correctly.

All three from the same org Means PTS as far as I know my tech.

KHeinsa

Mike Gormez

- Scientology and health www.whyaretheydead.net


- 'Religious' child abuse and neglect www.taxexemptchildabuse.net

- Visit Occupied Clearwater with Nessie http://nessie.psychassualt.org/

- The hearing transcripts http://whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/bob/

Kim P

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Jun 6, 2003, 10:30:02 AM6/6/03
to

Michael 'Mike' Gormez wrote:

Of course it is PTS - could not possible be that the tech is WRONG
now could it?? Or that Hubbard did not know what he was talking about
- nah couldn't be that.

Reading this makes me sad for the person - to see and know that
something is wrong yet not recognize or accept that thier "gut" is
trying to tell them something. I hope they start to ask more questions
and think more about what is wrong and realize that Hubbard was nothing
more than a con man and a cheat. Maybe this is the beginning of waking
up and seeing the wall in the Truman Show. I hope so

Kim P

Kheinsa

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Jun 6, 2003, 6:52:18 PM6/6/03
to
I have never posted here before and I do not think I will again.

The cancer was not from auditing. In fact when I got it I was not
going to the church.

It is from getting kicked by a calf at that spot when I was a teen.

I am cancer free and I know the tech works when applied right.

When applied wrong it can hurt deeply.

I had to say it is not the church's fault that I had cancer any more
then it was my son's.

When I got kicked by the calf I should have seen a doctor but at that
time I was a kid and did nothing of it and I probably would not have
been taken to one anyhow.

That don't mean I defend what hurts people either or I would not have
found the net and took two years to read it all.

Kheinsa


Kim P <yduzit...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3EE0A56A...@sympatico.ca>...

Michael 'Mike' Gormez

unread,
Jun 6, 2003, 10:15:09 PM6/6/03
to
In article <7c7bf58e.0306...@posting.google.com> ,
Khe...@yahoo.com (Kheinsa) wrote:

>I have never posted here before and I do not think I will again.

>The cancer was not from auditing. In fact when I got it I was not
>going to the church.

>It is from getting kicked by a calf at that spot when I was a teen.

>I am cancer free and I know the tech works when applied right.

I am glad that you kicked the cancer.

>When applied wrong it can hurt deeply.

>I had to say it is not the church's fault that I had cancer any more
>then it was my son's.

Why the hell are you so afraid? You sound like the waiver that Scientology
lets its costumers sign. Cheer up, this is not a sec check, okay?

Take a deep breath and realize that you are free to answer questions or
not. Just as I am as free to ask them. Remember that Hubbard said
communication is the universal solvent.

So, I asked you a couple of questions on ACT and if you see vit I would
like you to answer them, because for sure the rate of scientologists with
cancer seems rather high fur such a small group. You said you were sent to
ASHO when you had cancer, I am wondering for what you were sent to there.

But they are just questions, not a forced scientology confessions.


>When I got kicked by the calf I should have seen a doctor but at that
>time I was a kid and did nothing of it and I probably would not have
>been taken to one anyhow.

>That don't mean I defend what hurts people either or I would not have
>found the net and took two years to read it all.

Here you go again, making excuses. Hey, you don't have to do that. You did
nothing wrong and I never said you did. All I did is asking you a couple
of questions. And you have the libirty to answer them or not. Now, will
you please take a time out and stop hyperventilating? You got me worried.

Jommy Cross

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Jun 7, 2003, 10:34:13 PM6/7/03
to
On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:30:02 -0400, Kim P <yduzit...@sympatico.ca> wrote
in msg <3EE0A56A...@sympatico.ca>:
<snip>
>Michael 'Mike' Gormez wrote:

<snip>
>> From: Khe...@yahoo.com (Kheinsa)
>> Message-ID: <7c7bf58e.0306...@posting.google.com>

<snip>


>> She is why I stuck with the tech as back in the 70's she had me in an
>> intro session. I recalled something I had forgotten, she used the
>> meter to find it. Then I knew the tech worked.

<snip>


>> I just wanted to say this. Something is wrong. Don't say it is the
>> tech fault either. Something else wrong.

The writer knows 'the tech' works, but it's not working here.

The writer specifically doesn't want to hear it's 'the tech' not working.

I hear dissonance.

<snip>


>> All three from the same org Means PTS as far as I know my tech.

>Of course it is PTS - could not possible be that the tech is WRONG


>now could it?? Or that Hubbard did not know what he was talking about
>- nah couldn't be that.

Ron was kind enough to provide his deluded culties with something to take
their minds off this dissonant situation: they must look for treason,
Markabs, SMERSH and the Tenyaka Memorial.

Naturally these things are hard to find, but while they're looking for them
with luck some goofy azzed baboon will lope into the org and announce Ron
cured his psychosomatic leukaemia and everyone will cheer up again.

>
>Reading this makes me sad for the person - to see and know that
>something is wrong yet not recognize or accept that thier "gut" is
>trying to tell them something.

These accounts from people trapped inside a machine they can't or won't
understand are pitiful.

> I hope they start to ask more questions
>and think more about what is wrong and realize that Hubbard was nothing
>more than a con man and a cheat.

For a long term $cieno that involves giving up on a sizeable investment in
time, money and suspension of disbeleif. It's not an easy thing to do.

> Maybe this is the beginning of waking
>up and seeing the wall in the Truman Show. I hope so

<snip>

Me too.

Incident zero: Ron trolled them

Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross

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Kheinsa

unread,
Jun 7, 2003, 11:13:14 PM6/7/03
to
I answered on ACT and I did get my treatments that is now history. I
did follow what the doc said.

Michael 'Mike' Gormez <mik...@SPAMwhyaretheydead.net> wrote in message news:<bdh2ev8hm7vbdi5bk...@4ax.com>...


> In article <7c7bf58e.0306...@posting.google.com> ,
> Khe...@yahoo.com (Kheinsa) wrote:
>
> >I have never posted here before and I do not think I will again.
>
> >The cancer was not from auditing. In fact when I got it I was not
> >going to the church.
>
> >It is from getting kicked by a calf at that spot when I was a teen.
>
> >I am cancer free and I know the tech works when applied right.
>
> I am glad that you kicked the cancer.

That makes two of us.

>
> >When applied wrong it can hurt deeply.
>
> >I had to say it is not the church's fault that I had cancer any more
> >then it was my son's.
>
> Why the hell are you so afraid? You sound like the waiver that Scientology
> lets its costumers sign. Cheer up, this is not a sec check, okay?

Hey I am not afraid. I just rather not post most times. I have stuff
to handle now and that is what I should do. I been through a sec check
Last sept and I passed it. I said what I believe.

>
> Take a deep breath and realize that you are free to answer questions or
> not. Just as I am as free to ask them. Remember that Hubbard said
> communication is the universal solvent.

Yes, that if both are on the same wavelength. I bet I know of an
auditor that does not follow this. I am sure I do. He said to me some
ARC breaks can't be fixed. Funny thing to say for an auditor. I guess
he is right for he cut his comm with me.

>
> So, I asked you a couple of questions on ACT and if you see vit I would
> like you to answer them, because for sure the rate of scientologists with
> cancer seems rather high fur such a small group. You said you were sent to
> ASHO when you had cancer, I am wondering for what you were sent to there.
>

I suppose the rate is high as I know several that had it. Two died and
one recovered but died of something else. She did not take care of
self. She choose to do what she did on her own. Seh did not have to
stay on staff she his from her mother that way. It is why I never
stayed on any staff. I know of no medical on staff and that can't be
for me. I can't let my freedom go like that. IF it was normal work
hours with pay and such I might have done so but I can't be ordered
around.

I don't disagree with fighting the wrongs but I disagree with the
exagerations I see here. I been at one or two things talked about here
and I know it was not like it was said.

> But they are just questions, not a forced scientology confessions.

I have been through a few of those. I did do wrong and I am sorry I
did that. I don't think I ever will want to go through what I went
through before I was deadfiled. I know what was done wrong and I know
how it hurt me. I know an auditor got away with out tech. I know of
the altered tech. I also know I will not go through what I did before
so there is not arguing the fact that there are wrongs. I am told I
probably would have left anyhow in time as I am a big mouth and did
not keep my mouth shut. So I was shut up and deadfiled. All it did
was make me look on the computer and I found out a lot. I also see the
exagerations of true data too. Scientology does not Kill - OUT TECH.

>
>
> >When I got kicked by the calf I should have seen a doctor but at that
> >time I was a kid and did nothing of it and I probably would not have
> >been taken to one anyhow.
>
> >That don't mean I defend what hurts people either or I would not have
> >found the net and took two years to read it all.
>
> Here you go again, making excuses. Hey, you don't have to do that.

It is no excuse I did get kicked by a calf and it hurt like hell. You
get kicked where it hurts the most on your body and tell me what it
feels like. It was the same spot. I do not defend the wrongs in the
church that hurt people.

I have had several people in my family die of cancer. It happens. See
two smoked and the other one drank.


You did
> nothing wrong and I never said you did. All I did is asking you a couple
> of questions. And you have the libirty to answer them or not. Now, will
> you please take a time out and stop hyperventilating? You got me worried.
>
>
>

I answered them ON ACT. Now I will talk to you there but not here. I
still care for the people in the church and I watched for their
completions here.

I stand for the tech and the tech works if applied properly. I don't
approve of hurting people. Why would I and I do not defend that.

Kheinsa

Michael 'Mike' Gormez

unread,
Jul 9, 2003, 6:07:35 AM7/9/03
to
In article <th0sdvodtieg4vvpe...@4ax.com> , Michael 'Mike'
Gormez <mik...@SPAMwhyaretheydead.net> wrote:

>Here is their site
>http://www.glassartisans.com/

The website is down. I couldn't find any more recent news on this sad
death.

It has been awhile so I'll add her death to the page.

Mike Gormez

- Scientology and health www.whyaretheydead.net


- 'Religious' child abuse and neglect www.taxexemptchildabuse.net

- Visit Occupied Clearwater with Nessie http://nessie.psychassualt.org/

- The hearing transcripts http://whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/bob/

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