ALAN C WALTER HAS DIED
ho...@lightlink.com
Homer
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
ho...@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
Dennis L Erlich
> Alan C Walter has died.
> Homer
He and I were friends since 1968. I trained and interned most of the
auditors from his missions. He treated people with respect and took
better care of his staff than any other Mission Holder or Org ED.
He and Bill Franks were responsible for the abortive internal reform
they attempted to institute during the first Mission Holders' Meeting
at Flag.
Word has it this gentleman died peacefully in his sleep.
RIP, Big Man.
D
--------------------------
"Well, if we go to heaven
and some say we don't
but if there's a reckoning day
please God, I'll see you
and maybe I won't
I've a bag packed to go either way." - M. Knopfler
henri
> Alan C Walter has died.
>
> Homer
There's a sort of memorial thread on ESMB. I'll just repost the
original and my post to it.
http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=337803
---
DartSmohen DartSmohen is offline
Patron Meritorious
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 987
Default ALAN C. WALTER R.I.P.
I am sorry to inform you all that Alan passed away yesterday morning.
He did so peacefully in his sleep.
Alan has been my closest friend for over 45 years. We met when he was
on the Special Briefing Course at St Hill in 1963. My mother was on
course with him and that is where we met.
His contribution to the technology of Scientology has been immense. In
fact a large portion of the essential breakthroughs of the early
1960's came about as a direct result of the work carried out by Alan
and some others whilst at St Hill. Hubbard simply took ownership of
what had been developed and called it his own.
Alan became the single largest Scientology field operator, setting up
many missions which, in turn, were converted by the cult into official
organisations. The growth of Scientology would have been a fraction of
what it was had Alan not pioneered and developed his missions.
It is a mark of the incredible stupidity of the cult management to
have stolen his missions and expel him from the group after all he had
done for them.
As a result, Alan went on to research and develop his own studies and
produce a highly workable and successful technology. Alan completed
his work well before he passed away.
Alan was a giant of a man, both physically and spiritually. Hubbard
was terrified of him, having realised that he (Hubbard) was nowhere
near as powerful a being as Alan is. Alan was a quiet person, happy in
his own company. He shunned the "glory, status and adoration" that
Hubbard craved. His one continuing mantra was that he in no way wished
to be considered a guru.
Alan's legacy will continue. The technology he created will be
delivered by the Applied Knowledge Foundation. Alan set things up to
continue long before he died. Every week there are hundreds of new
people contacting the Knowledgism website and downloading material to
read and evaluate. It should come as no surprise to those who follow
this board to learn that there are probably more people out there
quietly applying basic principles of Alan's technology than there are
applying Scientology.
He remained conscious, rational, acerbic, grumpy and focused right to
the very end, just like he has always been, the man we all loved and
admired.
A memorial service and celebration of his life and achievements will
be held in around mid-January.
Dart
---
Alan Walter used to chat on the #scientology and
#altreligionscientology IRC channels, years ago, as use. Until I knew
who he was, I thought he was just another chatter, though one of the
more charming ones.
Despite his high position in Scientology and his prominence in the ex
community, he never put on airs or argued from authority, or put
anyone else down.
He had a dry (and sometimes earthy) sense of humor, was a fount of
knowledge about Scientology history and tech, and was an all around
great person to have around.
The world is less for not having him in it.
barbz
joy to discuss things with. I'll miss him.
--
xenubarb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne
A walk down the path of history is crunchy with the crispy corpses of
those who pooh-poohed or ignored the clown car of ridicule when it
pulled-up to the curb.
Stephen Jones
phil scott
thats good to hear Dennis.
realpch
Ah. Thanks for letting us know.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for 15 years!
Alan C Walters...
Alan knows whether there are OTs anywhere now.. he should feel
welcome to visit me anytime, even to answer my only request of his
conscience, which was about this:
Alan Walters and Cmdr? Alan Long were the ones who went to visit L Ron
Hubbard's son, Nibs, AKA Ron DeWolfe...and sucessfully got Ron Dewolfe
to sign a recant affidavit...
http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/penthouse-LRonHubbardJr-interview-1983.htm
I had last asked Alan to tell that story... there was no reply.
regards
Arnie Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
ho...@lightlink.com
Having come back from mars recently I don't understand something.
My impression of you is that you are virulently opposed to red on
white technology and green on white admin, both in the outer church and
the inner church.
Correct me if I am wrong.
You also feel that Hubbard's intentions from the get go were impure
and that there is nothing valuable in the tech from word clearing on up
through ARC straigtwire, drug rundown, Grades 0-V, Power and Clearing.
Or what there might be of value Hubbard stole from others.
You are also most virulent about any part of the upper OT levels
including OT III and NOTS for Bt's.
Yet you seem to admire the work of Alan, who took what Hubbard did
and corrected it and expanded on it for many years, but which in the end
is still clearing and Scientology with pretty much the same world view,
thetans, exterioriation, timetracks, engrams, BT's, problems, overts,
withholds, service facs, GPMS, implants etc.
Yet I never see you extolling the benefits of this side strain of
clearing, nor recommending it to anyone, nor any other side strain of
clearing such as idenics, dynamism etc.
Could you please clear up my cognitive dissonance for me?
Was Alan as deluded or mean intentioned as Hubbard?
Do you repudiate any of your skills learned in Scientology or in
Alan's missions or any of the auditing you ever got or any of the theory
and basic axioms that Alan and Hubbard worked so hard to establish?
Homer
--
henri
> Yet you seem to admire the work of Alan, who took what Hubbard did
>and corrected it and expanded on it for many years, but which in the end
>is still clearing and Scientology with pretty much the same world view,
>thetans, exterioriation, timetracks, engrams, BT's, problems, overts,
>withholds, service facs, GPMS, implants etc.
> Yet I never see you extolling the benefits of this side strain of
>clearing, nor recommending it to anyone, nor any other side strain of
>clearing such as idenics, dynamism etc.
> Could you please clear up my cognitive dissonance for me?
> Was Alan as deluded or mean intentioned as Hubbard?
I don't know what Dennis would say about this, but Alan acted with
good intentions, and that, by itself, would tend to get better results
than those Hubbard got. Hubbard's idea of being possessed by millions
of evil demonic beings, and that you could never get rid of all of
them, no matter how long you spent trying, was an evil mindfuck. It
drove people crazy, and still does.
I didn't see Alan creating any crazy people and he, personally, seemed
to be quite sane. Do I believe in his tech? No. But I prefer
"mistaken" to "delusional," which is a term I prefer to save for
assholes.
And if it worked for him, and for anyone else who wanted to do it, my
opinion as to whether they're "mistaken" or "delusional" or whatever
is meaningless. It's none of my business.
Dennis L Erlich
> Could you please clear up my cognitive dissonance for me?
That might be quite a chore, Homer.
> Was Alan as deluded or mean intentioned as Hubbard?
No.
> Do you repudiate any of your skills learned in Scientology or in
>Alan's missions or any of the auditing you ever got or any of the theory
>and basic axioms that Alan and Hubbard worked so hard to establish
Yes. I had to unlearn those skills and straighten out my thoughts
scrambled from the auditing and scieno dogma.
D
-----------------
"I was one of those." - Leonard Cohen
Dennis L Erlich
henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
----------------
"At this point, if we could go back in time and get rid of the internet
altogether, I would be all for it." - Professor Monica Pignotti (Nov 2009)
Skipper
Erlich <info...@informer.org> wrote:
A lot of people in $cientology were well-meaning and nice people when
you met them.
Unfortunately, by pushing that bullshit as hard as Alan Walter and his
pal Yvonne Jentzsch did, they did TONS of damage to lots of people. The
only thing worth a damn in $cientology is the "down to basic" stuff
that came Dianetically from Freud and Breuer's abreaction.
Of course, maybe they didn't figure out how harmful $cientology was,
ever. But I do know that in Yvonne's case, she ignored a whole lot of
truly insane behavior she personally witnessed with Hubbard. Took me a
while after her death to piece together that she did, though.
People who were assholes while in $cientology are basically assholes
now. Doesn't matter if they write books or publish blogs or speak to
the media - I know their personalities before and after and $cientology
only made the assholiness worse. So Walters (former football player in
Australia, wasn't he?) had a certain personality and Hubbard had
another. Everyone I've met who knew Hubbard pre-$cientology said that
he was crazy as hell, although very entertaining, talented as a writer,
and that he was usually broke, some times didn't even have a car. That
includes his long-time agent, the late Forry Ackerman.
"Rev" Norle Enturbulata DDT, OD, DTS
<ho...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:4b11...@news2.lightlink.com...
> Alan C Walter has died.
Did he wake up and re-join reality by blowing, or was he still an
unfortunate Scientologist at the time he 'dropped his meat body'?
Maureen
> In article <me15h5pjok5m108suaql0j0l6mvntd2...@4ax.com>, Dennis L
>
>
>
> Erlich <infor...@informer.org> wrote:
> > ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
>
> > > Could you please clear up my cognitive dissonance for me?
>
> > That might be quite a chore, Homer.
>
> > > Was Alan as deluded or mean intentioned as Hubbard?
>
> > No.
>
> > > Do you repudiate any of your skills learned in Scientology or in
> > >Alan's missions or any of the auditing you ever got or any of the theory
> > >and basic axioms that Alan and Hubbard worked so hard to establish
>
> > Yes. I had to unlearn those skills and straighten out my thoughts
> > scrambled from the auditing and scieno dogma.
>
> > D
>
> > -----------------
>
> > "I was one of those." - Leonard Cohen
>
> A lot of people in $cientology were well-meaning and nice people when
> you met them.
>
> Unfortunately, by pushing that bullshit as hard as Alan Walter and his
> pal Yvonne Jentzsch did, they did TONS of damage to lots of people.
>The
> only thing worth a damn in $cientology is the "down to basic" stuff
> that came Dianetically from Freud and Breuer's abreaction.
More about that here:
At around page 212, especially read, "Forgetting" as it may be of
interest to those who practice hubbard's treatment for
'aberration' (abbreaction). It has clues to how familial disconnection
may happen rather suddenly and immediately upon joining this cult
called $cientology.
They stopped the use of narcoanalysis in the treatment for shell shock
and used hypnoanalysis around 1945.
I have to disagree, in that there are not enough warnings published
about the use of mind splitting techniques that only leave people
fighting to establish the character or credibility of a person, once
they have joined $cientology, and even after they die. There are no
right answers, because we would have to argue if they were brainwashed
or not first, imo.
Just because someone is pleasant ad smiles, and was fun or functioned
somewhat normall does not explain or absolve the actions a person
takes for 'the better of the whole group.' A group in which had a
completely different (or compartmentalized) agenda.
maureen
Dennis L Erlich
quoting skip (currently bozo-binned)
>> A lot of people in $cientology were well-meaning and nice people when
>> you met them.
But like the Stanford Prison Experiment < http://www.prisonexp.org/ >
showed, even nice people can be guided into twisted acts which harm
others if they are put in the right kind of harmful social environment
and given roles which call for ruthlessness as in KSW.
>> Unfortunately, by pushing that bullshit as hard as Alan Walter and his
>> pal Yvonne Jentzsch did, they did TONS of damage to lots of people.
True.
But people like Alan (I dint know Yvonne) who tried their best to
apply the malignant teachings in a humane way (unlike sea ogres)
caused orders of magnitude ~less~ collateral damage.
So maybe not TONS of damage, eh? Only kilograms of damage
comparatively.
D
Eldon
earthligh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <ho...@lightlink.com> wrote in messagenews:4b11...@news2.lightlink.com...
> > Alan C Walter has died.
>
> Did he wake up and re-join reality by blowing, or was he still an
> unfortunate Scientologist at the time he 'dropped his meat body'?
He was a bigtime mission holder who was forced out and had his
business taken over in the early 1980s, along with Martin Samuels.
Hubbard's developing paranoia made him increasingly suspicious and
jealous of them during the late 1970s. Ray Kemp was another similar
case.
Out_Of_The_Dark
<arnaldole...@lermanet.com> wrote:
> On Nov 28, 8:50 pm, ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
>
> > Alan C Walter has died.
>
> > Homer
>
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
> > (607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
> > ho...@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
>
> Alan C Walters...
>
> Alan knows whether there are OTs anywhere now.. he should feel
> welcome to visit me anytime, even to answer my only request of his
> conscience, which was about this:
>
> Alan Walters and Cmdr? Alan Long were the ones who went to visit L Ron
> Hubbard's son, Nibs, AKA Ron DeWolfe...and sucessfully got Ron Dewolfe
>
> I had last asked Alan to tell that story... there was no reply.
>
> regards
>
> Arnie Lerma
> Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
Where did you get this information that Alan Walter was one of those
who got Nibbs to recant? I can't find anything on the internet except
your comments saying it is so.
I can only go by what he wrote me, which explains alot on why he
didn't go into full details of his past while in scientology. :
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/d352b1367911e440?hl=en
:
Subject: Re: Milk-toast harassment ethics gradient email sent to half
a dozen XSO chat group people......and I got a copy, so I post this
for the history books
Hi JustCallMeMary,
At this time I have no intention to write my memoirs.....to write
something like that I would like to be as accurate as
possible.....and
as I was a nutty as a fruit cake during that period....that being the
prevailing mutual rudiment. : - )
It would be a huge undertaking, which would mean living in the past
for
a fair period of time....Yuk!
The future looks infinitely brighter.....so I prefer to create it -
rather than re-create the past.
A.
_______________________________
I know what he meant.
R.I.P. Alan.
Eldon
> :
>
> Subject: Re: Milk-toast harassment ethics gradient email sent to half
> a dozen XSO chat group people......and I got a copy, so I post this
> for the history books
>
> Hi JustCallMeMary,
>
> At this time I have no intention to write my memoirs.....to write
> something like that I would like to be as accurate as
> possible.....and
> as I was a nutty as a fruit cake during that period....that being the
> prevailing mutual rudiment. : - )
>
> It would be a huge undertaking, which would mean living in the past
> for
> a fair period of time....Yuk!
>
> The future looks infinitely brighter.....so I prefer to create it -
> rather than re-create the past.
>
> A.
> _______________________________
>
> I know what he meant.
>
> R.I.P. Alan.
Now that's witty and charming. Thanks for digging it up. it's a
fitting tribute.
ho...@lightlink.com
>
> No.
But he was deluded as to the veracity and usefullness of
his auditing procedures, right?
>> Do you repudiate any of your skills learned in Scientology or in
>>Alan's missions or any of the auditing you ever got or any of the theory
>>and basic axioms that Alan and Hubbard worked so hard to establish
>
> Yes. I had to unlearn those skills and straighten out my thoughts
> scrambled from the auditing and scieno dogma.
OK, thanks for this.
Can you be more specific as to which skills you had to unlearn?
Would you also please refresh my memory what training level
to attained to, Class ? and what auditing level Grade ?
in both Hubbard's hands and in Alan's.
Thanks Homer
>
> D
>
> -----------------
>
> "I was one of those." - Leonard Cohen
--
ho...@lightlink.com
He split forming his own line of independent development called
www.Knowledgism.com
Freezoner in otherwords.
Maureen
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/d2c32af11e2de711?hl=en
ace
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "ace" <wis...@cyberstation.net>
Date: 12 Dec 2006 14:35:20 -0800
Local: Tues, Dec 12 2006 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: Why Auditors Have Stopped Auditing
The "Examiner Line" came into being on the Original Class VIII course
-
it was to check for F/n's.
The target being 100% F/n's.
If your pc did not get an F/N at the examiner, you got thrown
overboard.
The ship was docked in Corfu, Greece.
The overboards were very dangerous as many could not swim, also it was
at least 40 feet to the water.
The overboards occurred at 8.00 am in the morning, it was very chilly.
the water was putrid with raw sewage from the ships floating
by....usually there were 10 or 12 overboards every morning.
I remember diving overboard to save some poor old lady who could not
swim....she also broke 2 ribs hitting the side of the ship.....anyway
as I helped her up to the dock, there was LRH with a camera filming
us......I looked into his eye's....he was truly demonic at that
moment.
--
ho...@lightlink.com
> apply the malignant teachings in a humane way (unlike sea ogres)
> caused orders of magnitude ~less~ collateral damage.
>
> So maybe not TONS of damage, eh? Only kilograms of damage
> comparatively.
But no significant benefit at all, right?
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
Scientologists.
What is the downside of ARC Straightwire?
"Spot a time you had affinity for someone or something."
"Spot a time something was really real to you."
"Spot a time you were really in communication with something
or someone."
Run repetively to E/P.
Similarly what is the downside of running the lists in Self
Analysis.
Thanks Homer
Eldon
I see nothing wrong with any of that, or any processes through Power.
Maybe even R6EW. That's about the level where I think poor ol' LRH
started gasping for air. He had promised way too much since the early
1950s, and just couldn't settle for some moderately useful therapeutic
tools.
Dennis L Erlich
>>> Was Alan as deluded or mean intentioned as Hubbard?
yhn
>> No.
hom
> But he was deluded as to the veracity and usefullness of
>his auditing procedures, right?
I never studied his methods, Homer. And I don't make judgments about
other people's wins and gains.
Messing with other people's heads is a hard habit for some technical
people to break. Since people were willing to pay Alan to do it and I
haven't heard of any tragedies or complaints, I really don't have an
issue with his knowledgeism thingie.
But I used to joke with him on irc about still doing the Mindfuck. He
didn't mind my humor.
>>> Do you repudiate any of your skills learned in Scientology or in
>>>Alan's missions or any of the auditing you ever got or any of the theory
>>>and basic axioms that Alan and Hubbard worked so hard to establish
>>
>> Yes. I had to unlearn those skills and straighten out my thoughts
>> scrambled from the auditing and scieno dogma.
>
> OK, thanks for this.
> Can you be more specific as to which skills you had to unlearn?
The ability to impose my will on others without regard for the effect
on them.
> Would you also please refresh my memory what training level
>to attained to, Class ? and what auditing level Grade ?
>in both Hubbard's hands and in Alan's.
My formal training went to Class 4, NOTs. My informal training went
up to Class 12. I trained, checked out, interned and crammed auditors
up to Class 12 at Flag.
I was OT7, Nots Complete.
I never did auditing or training with Alan.
Skipper
Erlich <info...@informer.org> wrote:
> Maureen <lerma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> quoting skip (currently bozo-binned)
Yeah, that's what you do with anyone who calls you on your frequent
bullshit, Dennis. LMAO
Dennis L Erlich
> But no significant benefit at all, right?
None that I couldn't have achieved with less cost or damage to me by
joining a benevolent organization or studying a subject that didn't
lead ultimately to a mental black hole.
Skipper
<57410ca9-844e-4fd5...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Maureen <lerma...@gmail.com> wrote:
It is EASY (and lazy) to sit on the sidelines, decades after the fact
and say "Well, how could you fall for it" or whatever.
TONS of people got into Dianetic$ and $cientology after being sucked
into the hippie movement and then finding it lacking. A great many of
them got involved in alternate "philosophies". While my old
acquaintance Arlo Guthrie and his pal Jim Croce and their wives got
into a lady named "Ma" who said Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (or some
combination like that) appeared in her Brooklyn apartment and told her
to help the world, other folks like the members of the group People
(their one hit was "I Love You") got into $cientology. People members
including Albert Ribisi and Geoff Levin.
In that atmosphere in the 70s, there truly were people who wanted to
help others, and the workability of abreaction, disguised at it was,
suited folks just fine.
There was NO -
- Internet
- Published information against $cientology in broad circulation
- Only newspaper articles and magazines of years past that you'd have
to read in a library
So if Alan Walters was a cool guy and his pal Yvonne was like a
Bippity-Boppity-Boo fairy godmother out of Cinderella, their
personalities contributed greatly to convincing people. In Yvonne's
case, she'd been a kindergarten teacher in Australia prior to getting
involved, so you can imagine what she was like. "Darling" was her
favorite word, and she used it a lot on people.
You have to know the history and facts to fully understand.
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for 15 years!
from Alan
phil scott
> Dennis L Erlich <infor...@informer.org> wrote:
>
> > ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
>
> >> Was Alan as deluded or mean intentioned as Hubbard?
>
> > No.
>
> But he was deluded as to the veracity and usefullness of
> his auditing procedures, right?
some of alans stuff was quite well founded imo.. others, his notions
re 'enemies' perhaps
not applicable at times or as a ghestalt... he brought that with him
from his OZ pro
football days and view of the opposition as the enemy if Im not
mistaken... it was a mistep imo..
others of his developments, re 'dots' etc were more than useful,
breakthroughs...
in my view
Alan had founded 300 or so missions in his day, and flew between them
in a twin prop beachcraft,
which he slam dunk landed, nose way up and hard on the flaps.
I dont know if RIP is appropriate for Alan... He may come across the
finsh line on the other side much as
some of us rolled to the start line at night race...or he did on the
field.. the crowd standing. they knew.
Phil
ho...@lightlink.com
> I see nothing wrong with any of that, or any processes through Power.
> Maybe even R6EW. That's about the level where I think poor ol' LRH
> started gasping for air. He had promised way too much since the early
> 1950s, and just couldn't settle for some moderately useful therapeutic
> tools.
Eldon,
Thanks for that, the tech seems to have gone south
once evaluation started to set in as to what items, implants
platens to run.
Even the auditing of BT's would have been fine except
for the concentration on OT III.
Anyhow would you kindly remind me your involvement in
Scientology, training and auditing levels?
Thanks Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
> other people's wins and gains.
His methods, you mean after he left the church. But while he was
in the church you were training and auditing 'Standard Scientology', is
that right?
> Messing with other people's heads is a hard habit for some technical
> people to break. Since people were willing to pay Alan to do it and I
> haven't heard of any tragedies or complaints, I really don't have an
> issue with his knowledgeism thingie.
>
> But I used to joke with him on irc about still doing the Mindfuck. He
> didn't mind my humor.
OK, I understand.
> The ability to impose my will on others without regard for the effect
> on them.
Was this an admin skill or a tech skill you were using?
Have you ever done a full write up of all your overts and withholds
from YOUR point of view?
> My formal training went to Class 4, NOTs. My informal training went
> up to Class 12. I trained, checked out, interned and crammed auditors
> up to Class 12 at Flag.
>
> I was OT7, Nots Complete.
OK, now this is not a criticism or a charge, but at any point in
the bridge, in retrospect, did you false attest to the abilities gained
for each level up to OT 7?
Were any of your attestations valid, and if so at which point did
they become invalid or false.
For example, did you attest to but did not in fact attain:
1.) Knows scientology is a good thing and should be continued
2.) Awareness of truth and the way to personal freedom
3.) Freedom from the harmful effects of drugs alcohol and medicine
and free from the need to use them.
4.) Knows he or she won't get worse
5.) A (physically) well and happy human being
6.) Ability to communicate with anyone on any subject
7.) Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them
vanish
8.) Freedom from the hostilities and sufferings of life
9.) Freedom of the upsets of the past and ablility to face
the future
10.) Moving out of fixed conditions and the ability to do new things
11.) Freedom from cruel impulses and chronic unwanted conditions
12.) Ability to act without restraint
13.) Ability to handle power. Freedom from detested parts of the
track.
14.) Recovery of Knowledge
15.) Return of powers to act on own determinism. Freedom from
dramatization.
16.) Ability to be at cause over mental matter energy space and time
as regards survival for self on the first dynamic.
17.) Awareness of self as a thetan in relation to the phyiscal
universe and others.
18.) Ability to confront the whole track.
19.) Freedom from overwhelm.
20.) Awareness of self as an immortal being.
21.) Freedom from fixated introversion into the MEST universe.
22.) Freedom to operate exterior (to the MEST universe).
23.) Ability to project intention.
Thanks Homer
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, at least he admitted it. Look at Rathbun, acting as if he has
hasn't done anything wrong and refusing to communicate with anyone he
caused a bad effect on. From the reply I got from him, seems as if he
knew it was nuts and says so. Why go for blood? The man moved on and
tried to make the most of his life and figure out ways to really help
people.
You know something, When I was in, I got a bunch of people to sign off
ending their refund repayment requests to stop the flaps that were
occuring at the church. I was quite proud of those accomplishments
because they helped the church I belonged to. I was a part of the
machine and did my part in it. I'm sure Alan felt that way at the
time, believing he was helping the church when he was in. I
persuasively got those people to sign on the line, just as Alan and
the other bloke did with Nibbs. That was our common mission. That we
take responsibility for it and admit it in retrospect is really all we
can do.
Look at what Aaron Tweddell Saxton has admitted to after 10 years of
past the residual insanity to get up the courage to stand up and speak
so that others could also speak up. Alan was pert of this evolution,
so were you.
And he was human. I think by him telling you, he made his confession
enough, or at least enough for him to be able to handle admitting at
the time. Did you forgive him? Probably not. Perhaps he felt that you
wouldn''t this is why he didn't tell you more. But in retrospect,
wouldn't some forgiveness be in order, considering that he spent his
years trying make right for his wrongs, trying to gather what he felt
did work and make something of it for others? After all, he came into
Scientology to help people. He's no different on this than many who
joined.
Compare him to Rathbun. There is no willingness to admit. No
willingness to ask for forgiveness.
I am forever grateful to Alan for this writeup.
god.memo BE CLOSER TO GOD
by Alan Walter
"Failure to duplicate God's attributes is the basis of sin."
BE CLOSER TO GOD by Alan Walters 1986
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.clearing.technology/msg/da3ff38c2ab85996?hl=en&
Just something to think about, Arnie.
Skipper
<a3a4ad67-9911-41a6...@e22g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Out_Of_The_Dark <formerl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Whoops. POT KETTLE BLACK - you're the punk who marched into this group
and immediately started accusing me of murdering Laura Hippe, which of
course was total bullshit and I could've sued you.
And no matter how many times that's mentioned, you're still too
CHICKENSHIT to acknowledge what a creep thing that was to do.
Want to admit your idiocy now?
Dennis L Erlich
> His methods, you mean after he left the church.
Yes.
> But while he was
>in the church you were training and auditing 'Standard Scientology', is
>that right?
Right
>> Messing with other people's heads is a hard habit for some technical
>> people to break. Since people were willing to pay Alan to do it and I
>> haven't heard of any tragedies or complaints, I really don't have an
>> issue with his knowledgeism thingie.
>>
>> But I used to joke with him on irc about still doing the Mindfuck. He
>> didn't mind my humor.
>
> OK, I understand.
>
>> The ability to impose my will on others without regard for the effect
>> on them.
>
> Was this an admin skill or a tech skill you were using?
It had to do with setting and roll. It was built into the roll of
Chief Cramming Officer Flag.
> Have you ever done a full write up of all your overts and withholds
>from YOUR point of view?
I don't need to write down my regrets, bro. I know them cold.
>> My formal training went to Class 4, NOTs. My informal training went
>> up to Class 12. I trained, checked out, interned and crammed auditors
>> up to Class 12 at Flag.
>>
>> I was OT7, Nots Complete.
>
> OK, now this is not a criticism or a charge, but at any point in
>the bridge, in retrospect, did you false attest to the abilities gained
>for each level up to OT 7?
My head was too deep into the Hubbard Orifice Universe back then. I
didn't bother with details. If I had to get it done, I would. As far
as I was concerned I was happy to stay Grade 4. The rest I just did
to fulfil the requirements of Cramming those levels.
I'm sure I got as much out of them as anyone else who did them. Maybe
more. :)
> Were any of your attestations valid, and if so at which point did
>they become invalid or false.
Wow Homie's putting me into session.
<snip>
None of the above.
henri
> OK, I have a tech question then of all you tech trained Anti
>Scientologists.
> What is the downside of ARC Straightwire?
> "Spot a time you had affinity for someone or something."
> "Spot a time something was really real to you."
> "Spot a time you were really in communication with something
>or someone."
> Run repetively to E/P.
The "run repetitively to E/P." Suppose it doesn't have an E/P?
Suppose running anything repetitively is bad for your mind?
> Similarly what is the downside of running the lists in Self
>Analysis.
Mostly the same.
Even if the downside may be minor, I just don't see the upside.
ho...@lightlink.com
>>they become invalid or false.
>
> Wow Homie's putting me into session.
Not even vaguely.
I am interested in a phenomenon which I do not understand, so many
people went up the bridge, attesting all the way that they had made the
wins and the gains stated clearly on the chart, after word clearing them
and producing an F/N during the Examiners while attesting.
Then afterwards years later, after 22 separate SWORN attestations,
they said NONE of it worked.
Now that means they either went gaily up the bridge false attesting
all the way, perhaps not seeing the falseness of their attestations, or
they are lying now about none of it working.
So I am interested in which Grade or OT level started to produce
the first occurance of missed false attestations, for there one will
find the greatest pressure and out tech.
For example I had a win on Life Repair, the C/S then tried to get
me to attest to the level because I had been on it forever. I was
basically NCG, so a win for me was a big deal.
So I attested. I had to think about it, I had doubts, there was
some pressure.
Then I decided I didn't actually have 'Awareness of Truth and the
way to personal freedom', I just couldn't live with myself for claiming
that I had.
MY LIFE WAS NOT REPAIRED AT ALL.
I wanted that level and I hand't gotten it, so I retracted my
wishful thinking, and DE ATTESTED.
My personal integrity was still with me.
So they pulled 'The end of endless life repair', and put me on the
drug rundown anyway, because I was such a heavy druggie,
They were going to graduate me up the bridge in spite of me.
You see when lower bridge doesn't work, use the higher bridge,
that's standard tech isn't it:)
And besides completion stats are more important than true valuable
final products, eh. Any manager knows that.
So without a valid attest on Life Repair, I started my Drug
Rundown. Half way through the CCH's I refused to go on and told the C/S
to shove it where the light never shines.
You know how they position the auditor between the pc and door so
the pc can't blow the auditing room?
Didn't work.
I told my auditor to get the hell out of my way, and he knew I
meant business.
So they sent me to Flag.
It was all down hill from there.
Sybalski, Cassandra, they were all good people, great auditors, but
the C/S didn't have a clue what he/she/it was doing.
6 intensives later I was broke and in despair.
That was $50,000 broke.
While listening to Hubbard on a tape one day, still at Flag, I had
a massive cognition that I could do this thing myself, I saw how the
whole thing worked, and I didn't need anyone to 'help' me.
So when I was derouted from Flag and the Org, I continued on my
own.
But back to the point.
So when I hear of people 'making' it all the way to OT VII, and
THEN deattesting to all those gains, I wonder where the personal
integrity was during that time.
That may sound harsh, I really don't mean it to be, you would
probably be the first one to admit your personal integrity was out
during your entire trip up the bridge, but *I* find it almost
incomprehensible that this could occur.
So maybe your early attests were valid, and then maybe on a
gradient scale, doubt started to enter in, stat pushes, pressure, and
out ethics led to not quite complete attests, which then led to
outright false attests.
For example, just to be blunt but not accusatory, did you ever
outright false attest to a Grade or OT Level and know it. Or did you
attest and then later decide it was false but never de attested it but
continued on instead with the next level.
How did you manage to go up 22 levels of tightly controlled sworn
attestation that you KNEW would get you into eternal ethics trouble
should they turn out to be false, and now repudiate the wins and gains
on every one of them?
If the Church is doing that to people, then we have a real problem,
because I don't see how anyone could attest to F/Ning Overts/Witholds,
and Service Facs, and then even be CAPABLE of a false or repudiatable
attestion later on.
Thanks Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
>> Run repetively to E/P.
>
> The "run repetitively to E/P." Suppose it doesn't have an E/P?
> Suppose running anything repetitively is bad for your mind?
>
What is your involvement in the Church and if any what
is your attained Grade and Class level?
It is possible that a process won't have an E/P, but that would
be pretty obvious after running it on a few hundred people.
E/P's in the Church are very well documented and can't be missed,
although apparently they can be faked.
Homer
>> Similarly what is the downside of running the lists in Self
>>Analysis.
>
> Mostly the same.
>
> Even if the downside may be minor, I just don't see the upside.
--
phil scott
the downside with scn is limitless.. nasty to its eternal core... with
vast
luck and a lot of fortitude,
with defiance of its many booby traps and errors
there is an upside... is it worth the risk? not hardly... there are
other ways.
Defiance is delt with by means of hard core force.
Scn has in my view a good solid 5% of the net answers, no small
feat... mixed with 95% ruthlessly destructive toxin.
Phil scott
Phil scott
Sprach Z
I think he needs work at least in these items:
5.) A (physically) well and happy human being
6.) Ability to communicate with anyone on any subject
7.) Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them
vanish
8.) Freedom from the hostilities and sufferings of life
9.) Freedom of the upsets of the past and ablility to face
the future
10.) Moving out of fixed conditions and the ability to do new things
11.) Freedom from cruel impulses and chronic unwanted conditions
15.) Return of powers to act on own determinism. Freedom from
dramatization.
17.) Awareness of self as a thetan in relation to the phyiscal
universe and others.
19.) Freedom from overwhelm.
> Wow Homie's putting me into session.
Dennis had enough money now to go to Ithaca, Homer and pay full price,
from his secret Scientology settlement. Dennis, DO IT! Either you are
on board, or not on board.
God knows Dennis, a we, would benefit from the handling.
Homer, do you think you can get the stink, as he frequently says, off him?
Maybe if he's too cheap, we can all donate for him to get the handling.
phil scott
> Dennis L Erlich <infor...@informer.org> wrote:
>
> >> Were any of your attestations valid, and if so at which point did
> >>they become invalid or false.
>
> > Wow Homie's putting me into session.
>
> Not even vaguely.
>
> I am interested in a phenomenon which I do not understand, so many
> people went up the bridge, attesting all the way that they had made the
> wins and the gains stated clearly on the chart, after word clearing them
> and producing an F/N during the Examiners while attesting.
they werent lying, I wasnt lying when i attested...notice the attest
is within minutes of the
final session on a level...one is completely distracted from lifes
issues, and feels good... temporarily
... the ongoing brainwash acts to convince one of real gains even as
ones life is in collapse.
then the sales pitch, is 'you made it all this way, a new level of
trauma is keyed in, the next level will
handle it' which it does for a day or so.
but the core dogma, ego centric, viewpoint constricting Hubbard
approach, and assurance that it is correct, and leads
to (gasp) personal power.... leads to further collapse.
>
> Then afterwards years later, after 22 separate SWORN attestations,
> they said NONE of it worked.
key out gains... not permanent... a few perrmanent and valid insights
offset by
the background of bogus notions... on balance destructive. Yet
with some aspects
(very hard to parse) valid... like cat droppings dipped in
chocolate. Some never find
out.
>
> Now that means they either went gaily up the bridge false attesting
> all the way, perhaps not seeing the falseness of their attestations, or
> they are lying now about none of it working.
get over it Homer... these did not false attest. They were just
temporary 'gains'
...not handling the underlying issues, but agravating them severely
with the egocentric
nature of the dogma. power seeking, from a pin pointy viewpoint that
can be pervasively
correct for all others... that was insane. its what ruined
hubbard from the start.
>
> So I am interested in which Grade or OT level started to produce
> the first occurance of missed false attestations, for there one will
> find the greatest pressure and out tech.
dianetics... R3R... acted to stimulate 10,000 times more material than
it resolved...
those 'chains' touched countless others, lit up, but not enough to
read on the meter,
so remained unhandled.... and too many to ever handle...
there are other ways of addressing that issue. mentioned in the bm
scripts..also
by John Galusha. none of it 'auditing'..more like mopping the floor.
>
> For example I had a win on Life Repair, the C/S then tried to get
> me to attest to the level because I had been on it forever. I was
> basically NCG, so a win for me was a big deal.
>
> So I attested. I had to think about it, I had doubts, there was
> some pressure.
>
> Then I decided I didn't actually have 'Awareness of Truth and the
> way to personal freedom', I just couldn't live with myself for claiming
> that I had.
>
> MY LIFE WAS NOT REPAIRED AT ALL.
>
> I wanted that level and I hand't gotten it, so I retracted my
> wishful thinking, and DE ATTESTED.
>
> My personal integrity was still with me.
>
> So they pulled 'The end of endless life repair', and put me on the
> drug rundown anyway, because I was such a heavy druggie,
>
> They were going to graduate me up the bridge in spite of me.
>
> You see when lower bridge doesn't work, use the higher bridge,
> that's standard tech isn't it:)
Hubbies entire approach had core level flaws, mixed with a few valid
aspects... sort of
like a computer with an OS developed by drunks. on balance it ends
badly regardless of
the rhetoric.
>
> And besides completion stats are more important than true valuable
> final products, eh. Any manager knows that.
no good apples fall from a good tree... just bad apples... you see the
bad apples and
fail to notice that it is the tree that is the base cause of the
situation.
>
> So without a valid attest on Life Repair, I started my Drug
> Rundown. Half way through the CCH's I refused to go on and told the C/S
> to shove it where the light never shines.
progress
>
> You know how they position the auditor between the pc and door so
> the pc can't blow the auditing room?
>
> Didn't work.
>
> I told my auditor to get the hell out of my way, and he knew I
> meant business.
>
> So they sent me to Flag.
>
> It was all down hill from there.
>
> Sybalski, Cassandra, they were all good people, great auditors, but
> the C/S didn't have a clue what he/she/it was doing.
>
> 6 intensives later I was broke and in despair.
>
> That was $50,000 broke.
>
> While listening to Hubbard on a tape one day, still at Flag, I had
> a massive cognition that I could do this thing myself, I saw how the
> whole thing worked, and I didn't need anyone to 'help' me.
>
> So when I was derouted from Flag and the Org, I continued on my
> own.
you are better off on your own, but not using Hubbards mix of
bogusnesses
... thats all imo that has held you up...Ive seen you advance markedly
on
other tactics.
>
> But back to the point.
>
> So when I hear of people 'making' it all the way to OT VII, and
> THEN deattesting to all those gains, I wonder where the personal
> integrity was during that time.
Up to the space opera range, OT2 and 3 its not that loopy...beyond
that
many gotts a clooo and head for the hills, not bothering to return and
de-attest..
those that continue in many cases are sold in the notion that the next
level has
keyed in.... and sold on the idea that everyone else did well...and
the first key out
attest..and they mean it...for at least 20 minutes.
why dont they de-attest... no integrity and fear of loosing the next
level that will 'fix' them.
why didnt I de-attest.... I kept moving to the next key out level and
attesting...noticing
many apparent residual gains, that turned out to be illusory in the
end...but not at the time.
I think thats the case predominantly... those that show serious signs
of getting a cloo are
run off...you dont hear from them while you are in and justifying the
scene yourself.
In your case, you remained justifing hubbards tech no matter how loopy
it got... until you had a complex
layer of rational why it should work, but of course it hasnt for
you...nor for 99% of those involved..
most leave scn as you know. you are not the only one.
except you remail loyal to El tubbo.
>
> That may sound harsh, I really don't mean it to be, you would
> probably be the first one to admit your personal integrity was out
> during your entire trip up the bridge, but *I* find it almost
> incomprehensible that this could occur.
why you have not done the drill 'what is right about hubbards stuff'
then 'what is fatally wrong with hubbards stuff'...point by point
you had apparently missed the massive range of bogus notions even
though he left many clues...such as cigarettes cure cancer and babies
should not drink mothers milk, but barley water...etc.
a failure to notice 'what was wrong with hubbards dogma'
>
> So maybe your early attests were valid, and then maybe on a
> gradient scale, doubt started to enter in, stat pushes, pressure, and
> out ethics led to not quite complete attests, which then led to
> outright false attests.
no... one rationalizes the losses and obvious bogusness, being sold on
the notion that
Hubbard was flawless, and one personally had all the problems...so a
person found some
reasons to claim gains, and attested to *those... the rest being
handled 'on the next level'
Phil scott
I_stardust
Why are you behaving so nicely Rob. Shouldn't you be calling everyone
"cocksuckers" who oppose Reverend Erlich?
Out_Of_The_Dark
> In article
>
> > Just something to think about, Arnie.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
relationship with her and trashed her all across usenet as a worthless
alcoholic Funny, she wasn't one when I knew her and you kept coming to
her house acting like you
needed her when you did before Brent cam,e along, even afterwards. You
were the leech that wouldn't let go over all those years. No wonder
she became an alcoholic.
You know I never said you killed Laura but you keep repeating that I
posted that you did. Once again, post the link to where I said what
you accuse me of saying YOU killed her. Oops, I forgot. There is no
such post and that's why you never reply with it. It must suck being
Skip Press.
Out_Of_The_Dark
ho...@lightlink.com
What would be the upside and/or downside of running the following
processes on a person? Together as a group they form a short program.
Run each pair alternately and repetively to VGI, COGS, F/N.
Then go to the next pair.
When you get to the end of the lot, start over again from the top
until major win.
"What SOME MASS is there?" (mental mass)
"What NO MASS is there?" (NO means pretended nothing there.)
"What SOME FORCE is there?"
"What NO FORCE is there?"
"What SOME AFFINITY is there?"
"What NO AFFINITY is there?"
"What SOME REALITY is there?" (Reality means agreement)
"What NO REALITY is there?"
"What SOME COMMUNICATION is there?"
"What NO COMMUNICATION is there?"
"What SOME UNDERSTANDING is there?"
"What NO UNDERSTANDING is there?"
"What did you do?" (both good and bad from the
"What didn't you do?" preclears point of view.)
Thanks Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
> Scn has in my view a good solid 5% of the net answers, no small
> feat... mixed with 95% ruthlessly destructive toxin.
This sounds like tech is poisoned by admin, particularly given that
admin offers license to dramatize on the part of it's insane members.
Also where tech itself fails to follow the Auditor's Code, or is
abused in the process of heavy ethics.
Everyone entering the Church is an out Grade IV, thus a make wrong
artist. The opposite of a make wrong artist is a make right artist, and
LRH paid little to no attention to the make right part of the dichotomy
of insanity.
Can't we at least say that most everyone in the Church
suffering from a massive out Grade IV?
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
>> Wow Homie's putting me into session.
>
> Dennis had enough money now to go to Ithaca, Homer and pay full price,
> from his secret Scientology settlement. Dennis, DO IT! Either you are
> on board, or not on board.
>
> God knows Dennis, a we, would benefit from the handling.
>
> Homer, do you think you can get the stink, as he frequently says, off him?
Sorry, not clear what you are talking about.
Can you tell me your relation to the Church, and your Grade and
Class attained? And your session goals and intents for Dennis.
Anyhow no one can audit another unwillingly, and besides Dennis
knows full well how to audit himself.
As for trying to put him into session, I would like a write up of
his crimes from his point of view. Not specific time place form and
event, or anything that would discredit him, like masturbating on the
EO's desk. (Rats and I thought I was being original...)
I mean general class of crimes against human minds and souls, as
specific as he can get without actually being specific.
He already gave one, 'Imposing will without regard to others'.
His write up, rather than being a condemnation of himself, would
act as a general guide for others still in the Church to judge their own
actions against, to see that they are not alone, and get it specifically
stated what they might be doing wrong. It could help others see the
light and do something about it.
In fact a general manifesto could be written, of general crimes by
people who actually committed them and regreted doing so, it would be a
useful document for a.r.s to have and post weekly, and a guide against
which future actions of the Church could be judged.
'THIS I DID WRONG...'
For example, if anyone ever wanted to start another Church, Lord
save us, they could have the Code of a Scientologist that says:
"Never ...
"Always...
written from the point of view of the adherents who got disgusted
with themselves, and not the overarching founder with questionable
intents using workable tech against people.
Homer
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
> (607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
> ho...@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
Homer, my condolences to you on the loss of your friend. There's a
nice thread on ESMB started by Dart Smohen, with lots of kind
responses from the posters who knewAlan from there.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15003
Mary McConnell
Out_Of_The_Dark
> On Nov 29, 10:24 pm, Out_Of_The_Dark <formerlyfoo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 28, 11:49 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for 15 years!"
>
> > <arnaldole...@lermanet.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Alan C Walter has died.
>
> > > > Homer
>
> > > > --
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
> > > > (607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
> > > > ho...@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
>
>
> > > Alan knows whether there are OTs anywhere now.. he should feel
> > > welcome to visit me anytime, even to answer my only request of his
> > > conscience, which was about this:
>
> > > Alan Walters and Cmdr? Alan Long were the ones who went to visit L Ron
> > > Hubbard's son, Nibs, AKA Ron DeWolfe...and sucessfully got Ron Dewolfe
> > > to sign a recant affidavit...http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/penthouse-LRonHubbardJr-inter...
>
> > > I had last asked Alan to tell that story... there was no reply.
>
> > > regards
>
> > > Arnie Lerma
> > > Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
>
> > Hi Arnie,
>
> > Where did you get this information that Alan Walter was one of those
> > who got Nibbs to recant? I can't find anything on the internet except
> > your comments saying it is so.
>
> > didn't go into full details of his past while in scientology. :
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/d352b1367...
> > :
>
> > Subject: Re: Milk-toast harassment ethics gradient email sent to half
> > a dozen XSO chat group people......and I got a copy, so I post this
> > for the history books
>
> > Hi JustCallMeMary,
>
> > At this time I have no intention to write my memoirs.....to write
> > something like that I would like to be as accurate as
> > possible.....and
> > as I was a nutty as a fruit cake during that period....that being the
> > prevailing mutual rudiment. : - )
>
> > It would be a huge undertaking, which would mean living in the past
> > for
> > a fair period of time....Yuk!
>
> > The future looks infinitely brighter.....so I prefer to create it -
> > rather than re-create the past.
>
> > A.
> > _______________________________
>
> > I know what he meant.
>
> > R.I.P. Alan.
>
> Now that's witty and charming. Thanks for digging it up. it's a
> fitting tribute.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
:)
ho...@lightlink.com
>> ? ? ?I am interested in a phenomenon which I do not understand, so many
>> people went up the bridge, attesting all the way that they had made the
>> wins and the gains stated clearly on the chart, after word clearing them
>> and producing an F/N during the Examiners while attesting.
>
> they werent lying, I wasnt lying when i attested...notice the attest
> is within minutes of the
> final session on a level...one is completely distracted from lifes
> issues, and feels good... temporarily
Ok, thanks for telling me that. Originally auditing was supposed
to happen to people in the real world, and it still does with public
pc's. These people HAVE real world jobs and lives, and when they
come into session, any suface gains they got the session before
have been sorely tested.
It has been suggested that cult members not be allowed to
work full time in the Church, but MUST be required to at least
get a part time job in the real world.
And concentration on families must be put ahead of saving
the planet.
> key out gains... not permanent...
OK, thanks for this.
Why not permanent?
Was it never intended to be permanent?
Could it have been applied properly in the right
environment to be permanent?
Were all clears merely keyed out clears?
> get over it Homer... these did not false attest. They were just
> temporary 'gains'
> ...not handling the underlying issues, but agravating them severely
> with the egocentric
> nature of the dogma.
OK, so we have the idea of underlying issues.
What form would a technology take, that could and would
handle the underlying issues.
power seeking, from a pin pointy viewpoint that
> can be pervasively
> correct for all others... that was insane. its what ruined
> hubbard from the start.
What I hear you saying is that correct tech was applied
for evil purposes, almost as black tech.
Is that correct?
>> ? ? ?So I am interested in which Grade or OT level started to produce
>> the first occurance of missed false attestations, for there one will
>> find the greatest pressure and out tech.
>
> dianetics... R3R... acted to stimulate 10,000 times more material than
> it resolved...
> those 'chains' touched countless others, lit up, but not enough to
> read on the meter,
> so remained unhandled.... and too many to ever handle...
OK, this is an issue of importance. Particularly if those chains
were not your chains but where body chains, or BT chains, or stolen or
bought chains.
This would be a very severe problem if Dianetics restimulated more
than it erased.
> there are other ways of addressing that issue. mentioned in the bm
> scripts..also
> by John Galusha. none of it 'auditing'..more like mopping the floor.
How is BM not auditing or running a process?
> Hubbies entire approach had core level flaws, mixed with a few valid
> aspects... sort of
> like a computer with an OS developed by drunks. on balance it ends
> badly regardless of
> the rhetoric.
Well Life Repair was basically a Prep Check done on this life.
Is that not useful? Is it harmful?
What would produce a NO CASE GAIN on it.
>> ? ? ?And besides completion stats are more important than true valuable
>> final products, eh. ?Any manager knows that.
>
> no good apples fall from a good tree...
Service fac computation dude.
>> ? ? ?So when I hear of people 'making' it all the way to OT VII, and
>> THEN deattesting to all those gains, I wonder where the personal
>> integrity was during that time.
>
> Up to the space opera range, OT2 and 3 its not that loopy...beyond
OK, thanks for this.
> that
> many gotts a clooo and head for the hills, not bothering to return and
> de-attest..
Well you indicate there wasn't anything to deattest to below OT 1.
Valid if weak gains.
> why dont they de-attest... no integrity and fear of loosing the next
> level that will 'fix' them.
> why didnt I de-attest....
So how come integrity auditing during each phase of the
process doesn't catch this.
> In your case, you remained justifing hubbards tech no matter how loopy
> it got... until you had a complex
> layer of rational why it should work, but of course it hasnt for
> you...nor for 99% of those involved..
>
> most leave scn as you know. you are not the only one.
> except you remail loyal to El tubbo.
I remain loyal to clearing. In doing a complete rescan
of all the auditing I ever got from others and why it hasn't worked,
and looking at what is now working, I see Hubbard was right
in the axiohms, and potentially even right in the basics
of approach, life repair, grades, etc, but the why it didn't
work goes a lot deeper than blaming a process or the people
who tried to apply it.
cluelessness on the parts of the auditors and C/S's played
a big role.
> why you have not done the drill 'what is right about hubbards stuff'
> then 'what is fatally wrong with hubbards stuff'...point by point
> you had apparently missed the massive range of bogus notions even
> though he left many clues...such as cigarettes cure cancer and babies
> should not drink mothers milk, but barley water...etc.
Sorry, never heard that stuff, but have heard others.
But I am not stuck in 'Bad trees only drop bad apples', and I have
long known that Hubbard was an Idiot Savant, meaning in this case he had
good stuff but it was poisoned by his erratic personality.
> no... one rationalizes the losses and obvious bogusness, being sold on
> the notion that
> Hubbard was flawless, and one personally had all the problems...so a
> person found some
> reasons to claim gains, and attested to *those... the rest being
> handled 'on the next level'
Yes, the idea that Hubbard was flawless is a problem.
But so is the idea that Hubbard was nothing but flaws.
Even with all the harm that happened, he set the stage and
foundation work for more good than anyone else in history has done to
present time.
My opinion.
Personally I think that if you pulled everyone out of the Church
one by one, and ran Grades on them properly without fear of punishment,
and with some attention to other peoples withholds and dones also,
including Hubbard, four flow O/W, and then stuck them back in the Church
with immunity, the whole thing might come together.
But where ever there is absolute power, there will be problems, as
criminals will bubble up to the highest levels to hide their dastardly
deeds.
So the monolithic political ladder that was created might need to
be changed to a 3 center balance of power like we have in the
constitution, with no one being able to control all.
For example, if OSA were peer to sea org and had oversight like the
justice department has oversight over the president, then maybe the
Church could run on 3 cylinders out of 8 rather than just 1.
Homer
Skipper
<313df810-84fd-4b0f...@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
Out_Of_The_Dark <formerl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, I'm not going to drag up posts from Google groups to prove
anything to a nutball like you, but frankly Laura was an alcoholic who
could fool anyone, make an e-meter float at will WHILE high or not (I
watched her do it with an auditor from Celebrity Centre who came to her
place). Stupid as you are, she fooled you and you never caught on. It
took my living with her to find out, and even then a while as I finally
figured out a lingering smell and found vodka bottles. She was a very
good actress, very talented, and her alcoholism definitely ruined her
career and took her out. She took diet pills to stay slim starting with
being in "Lucky Lady" as I recall, that ate away at her muscle mass,
and she started drinking to literally kill the pain. Of course, you'd
have to be interested in facts instead of emotion to put together the
string of events, and you're incapable.
She was, unfortunately for her, an endless but very clever liar,
getting someone to call her students any time she was too drunk to
teach cold reading, and they always thought she was sick from
something, as did I, for a while.
Your recitation of events is again utterly wrong. I never had anything
to do with Laura except barely knowing her when she was dating and
engaged to Brent Daniels. She probably tried to kill herself when he
broke up with her. When I told her I couldn't live with alcoholism and
she needed to do something, she attempted suicide. I found her and
saved her life, and in the waiting room of the hospital, her mother
told me she'd done that several times before, always over boyfriends,
so she could have tried over Brent, I don't know.
I found out most of this after I saved her life from her suicide
attempt and was up 48 hours straight with her at the hospital downtown.
The facts are in county records at the hospital and with the Hollywood
Police Department (they did a thorough investigation). Not that you're
smart enough to look into something like that. It's easier just to
spout your worthless bile here.
Wouldn't let her go? You are truly insane. I did my best to help Laura
but ultimately failed like everyone did, and enabling ignorant twits
like you are why she's dead - she basically needed a group intervention
and a lot of help OUT of $cientology.
Try some more projection and start telling yourself the truth about who
it really sucks being, because that's the cancer eating your soul, and
it's my guess you'll never beat it.
Meanwhile, I'm an internationally known journalist and author, and you
are... not much.
You still can't address your lies.
henri
>henri <he...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>>> Run repetively to E/P.
>> The "run repetitively to E/P." Suppose it doesn't have an E/P?
>> Suppose running anything repetitively is bad for your mind?
> Henri,
> What is your involvement in the Church and if any what
>is your attained Grade and Class level?
I am happy to say nothing whatsoever. My only involvement with the
"Church" has been as an enemy of it.
> It is possible that a process won't have an E/P, but that would
>be pretty obvious after running it on a few hundred people.
Not if you don't let them out of the room until they sign something
saying they had one.
> E/P's in the Church are very well documented and can't be missed,
>although apparently they can be faked.
Lots of things are very well documented that just ain't so. Millions
of people will tell you that astrology is the bee's knees, but it's
still bullshit.
henri
Shut up Tom. The sober people are talking.
Eldon
> Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
> > I see nothing wrong with any of that, or any processes through Power.
> > Maybe even R6EW. That's about the level where I think poor ol' LRH
> > started gasping for air. He had promised way too much since the early
> > 1950s, and just couldn't settle for some moderately useful therapeutic
> > tools.
>
> Eldon,
>
> Thanks for that, the tech seems to have gone south
> once evaluation started to set in as to what items, implants
> platens to run.
>
> Even the auditing of BT's would have been fine except
> for the concentration on OT III.
>
> Anyhow would you kindly remind me your involvement in
> Scientology, training and auditing levels?
I did through OT III, though I started having grave doubts after
Power. As you said, after that it was all evaluation, though OpTerms
could be interpreted as one's own mental constructs. I think the
concept of BTs is made ridiculous by the space opera story presented
as Truth Revealed. Drs. Hal and Sidra Stone have developed a therapy
called Voice Dialogue, based on Jungian identities/archetypes, that's
far more open-ended and credible.
http://www.delos-inc.com/
Eldon
Now, that's an interesting observation, Homer. Marty Rathbun announced
that he just audited his girlfriend Mosey to Grade IV completion, and
her success story appeared on his blog today.
I won't venture to say how elated she will remain for how long, but it
appears to have been beneficial, that's for sure.
It's ironic considering how Marty is running a gigantic Service
Facsimile of his own on Aaron Saxton and anyone else who dares to
question the efficacy of the tech or the inherently good intentions of
LRH.
> Homer
Eldon
There must be a little. He said Jim Logan had unconditionally forgiven
him for breaking up his marriage to Annie Broeker Tidman, and admitted
that the SP Times had accurately reported what he did to them.
But maybe the forgiveness was unsolicited.
> I am forever grateful to Alan for this writeup.
>
> god.memo BE CLOSER TO GOD
> by Alan Walter
>
> "Failure to duplicate God's attributes is the basis of sin."
> BE CLOSER TO GOD by Alan Walters 1986http://groups.google.com/group/alt.clearing.technology/msg/da3ff38c2a...
Ted Mayett
>
> What would be the upside and/or downside of running the following
>processes on a person? Together as a group they form a short program.
In my on and off ten years as a member, stuff like this was never
really sold or pushed. You knew it was there, and if you were strong
enough you could probably make it so, that you would do these things.
Maybe though if you were strong enough to "enforce" these things then
you were too strong to be a member in good standing.
This kind of stuff is scary. It pushes aside your vanities to do them
honestly. You think you are smart, you think you are this or that,
start doing things like this. And you break out in a light sweat,
maybe your stomach starts to tie up in knots. It is uncomfortable.
Me, I can't put this down, cannot ridicule it at all. I was always
clever enough to not have to do these things. Except I did read them
secretly so to speak, I knew they existed. And to just contemplate
doing these things was uncomfortable for me.
But if you were like me then you spent some real time in orgs, and it
was confusing. Most of them were mutts. But you came across rare
types, those who neither attacked nor defended, who didn't criticize
and instruct. People at peace and calm with when and where they were,
at that moment. People who were intelligent and articulate when and
if they wanted to be.
And me I've always leaned to an aggressive personality, liking to play
games, to push and taunt at times. But these people were out of my
league, I knew this. It wasn't like you were going up against a wall
if you took them on. But rather like there was nothing there, nothing
to "attack". There was nothing there, and there was a wall, both at
the same time. I had met some truly amazing people while a member.
The tech listed below is not bad, not harmful. Tech like this gave
birth to someone like Homer here. How many of us really wish we could
talk and think like Homer does, to attack without attacking, to defend
without defending. It is a most admirable ability.
Homer might well be the greatest Auditor there ever was. And at the
same time the most mind boggling and outrageous NCG there ever was.
(no case gain) But you know Homer, before you drop the body at some
future date you might come out of it all laughing a most wonderful
laugh. I like your chances anyway.
--
Ted Mayett
Critical information regarding Scientology
http://www.solitarytrees.net
realpch
>
> > Ex or Current Techies:
> >
> > What would be the upside and/or downside of running the following
> >processes on a person? Together as a group they form a short program.
>
> really sold or pushed. You knew it was there, and if you were strong
> enough you could probably make it so, that you would do these things.
>
> Maybe though if you were strong enough to "enforce" these things then
> you were too strong to be a member in good standing.
>
> This kind of stuff is scary. It pushes aside your vanities to do them
> honestly. You think you are smart, you think you are this or that,
> start doing things like this. And you break out in a light sweat,
> maybe your stomach starts to tie up in knots. It is uncomfortable.
>
> Me, I can't put this down, cannot ridicule it at all. I was always
> clever enough to not have to do these things. Except I did read them
> secretly so to speak, I knew they existed. And to just contemplate
> doing these things was uncomfortable for me.
<snip>
That sounds healthy, Ted, because asking people to go through those
sorts of "processes" and recording their effusions sounds really creepy
to me. It's a bit like having been videotaped at a party, dancing on the
table wearing a lampshade, that kind of thing. But they weren't
videotaping that stuff when you were in, were they?
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
phil scott
those aside from gaining flexability on that range of issues, getting
unstuck etc.. act as
LISTING QUESTIONS... with no fucking way out... the victim ends up
burried up the creek
with no paddle.... those are GENERAL questions.... they are GENERAL
lising questions,
guaranteed to ruin all they touch..... repeated are entirely fatal in
the long term.. in the short
term there would be some realization about ones relationship to these
issues.
the person would end up burried in unfathomable (generalized,
significances)....
Phil scott
phil scott
> phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> > Scn has in my view a good solid 5% of the net answers, no small
> > feat... mixed with 95% ruthlessly destructive toxin.
>
> This sounds like tech is poisoned by admin, particularly given that
> admin offers license to dramatize on the part of it's insane members.
I didnt intend to indicate the tech was burried in admin... regardless
the relative truth
of that notion.... the tech is poison itself (on balance, not in ever
single detail of it)... it did not need the poisonous admin to
make it fatal.... something like a 10gram cyandide capsule dipped in
a world class chirardelli chocolate sprinkled with toffee and
chopped almonds........ delicious.
you fell for it..because of the hype, and the single faceted logic
hubbard employed...'demonstrate how its true'...never 'demonstrate how
it is destructively insane'.. only the facet and miniscule , isolated,
paradigm of its truth.
You and many of us swallowed that pill... some of us were able to get
past the traps and see the core toxin.
>
> Also where tech itself fails to follow the Auditor's Code, or is
> abused in the process of heavy ethics.
the tech is poisonous itself to the 80 or 90% level being ego
enhancement based... the pin pointy view point senior to
all that is... is insane. fatal hooks were installed as well, along
with processing that delivered insight while sending the person down
long garden paths of hostility, hate, intent to ruin ...which then as
any toxin backfires on its hostie toastie....thats why so many
scientologists end in total ruin.... few otherwize...99% leaving
horror after a few years, 1% or less net retention...and those?
basket cases like Farty Heartburn and that big dog who used to run in
the tall grass, ruining people, now selling used cars.
>
> Everyone entering the Church is an out Grade IV, thus a make wrong
> artist. The opposite of a make wrong artist is a make right artist, and
> LRH paid little to no attention to the make right part of the dichotomy
> of insanity.
eltubbo had many many serious problems aside from being a sociopath...
and yes
he was RIGHT...twice a day... just like any other broken clock.
>
> Can't we at least say that most everyone in the Church
> suffering from a massive out Grade IV?
no... its the human condition. its endemic with individuals, we all
try to do what we think is right for us
at the time, then we justify it. since we are mostly idiots,
speaking for myself predominantly, we end
up justifing our error...that goes terminally south.
the cure... just do it... dont justify it.
Phil scott
>
> Homer
phil scott
Homer typed> >> ? ? ?I am interested in a phenomenon which I do not
understand, so many
> >> people went up the bridge, attesting all the way that they had made the
> >> wins and the gains stated clearly on the chart, after word clearing them
> >> and producing an F/N during the Examiners while attesting.
>
Phil replied > > they werent lying, I wasnt lying when i
attested...notice the attest
> > is within minutes of the
> > final session on a level...one is completely distracted from lifes
> > issues, and feels good... temporarily
>
> Ok, thanks for telling me that. Originally auditing was supposed
> to happen to people in the real world, and it still does with public
> pc's. These people HAVE real world jobs and lives, and when they
> come into session, any suface gains they got the session before
> have been sorely tested.
false assumption...not sorely tested in the faintest... say a guy had
issues with red headed women,
in the past... and between sessions and for years had not any occasion
to run into one... so not sorely
tested... and even if he had met one, it takes time to get nailed.
bad assumptions that he was
sorely tested..but he did feel good in some cases... when he finally
felt good and the cult has his money
then he was asked to attest... 20 seconds after leaving the auditing
room or in the auditing room itself
within SECONDS... not tested... and in fact most gains relapse
according to the 99% that have fled the
criminal brainwash cult.
those are the facts...not sorely tested at all.. then fled the scene,
often after decades of attests... as basket
cases.
>
> It has been suggested that cult members not be allowed to
> work full time in the Church, but MUST be required to at least
> get a part time job in the real world.
>
> And concentration on families must be put ahead of saving
> the planet.
>
> > key out gains... not permanent...
>
> OK, thanks for this.
>
> Why not permanent?
>
> Was it never intended to be permanent?
yes, Hubbard had grandiose notions of a permanent cure, even as he
himself wrote much on
his own regretable situation, and others Ron DeWolf his son and others
documented it.
Hubbards approach was poisoned by his early ego centric based
beginnings, turned 'satanic' in its quest
for power... that has ruined all it touched... as the pin pointy idiot
individual has no claim on pervasive power,
the height of criminal insanity. Eltubbo's gift to mankind.
>
> Could it have been applied properly in the right
> environment to be permanent?
anything can happen, but not that with the nasty ass hooks, spin,
bogus agenda and errors involved.
>
> Were all clears merely keyed out clears?
no. it is possible not be the victim of ones own accumulated
considerations,... thats what the bm scripts were
about.
>
> > get over it Homer... these did not false attest. They were just
> > temporary 'gains'
> > ...not handling the underlying issues, but agravating them severely
> > with the egocentric
> > nature of the dogma.
>
> OK, so we have the idea of underlying issues.
>
> What form would a technology take, that could and would
> handle the underlying issues.
I have gotten into that extensively in the bm scripts. with references
and drills.. that was my approach
yers will vary.
>
> power seeking, from a pin pointy viewpoint that
>
> > can be pervasively
> > correct for all others... that was insane. its what ruined
> > hubbard from the start.
>
> What I hear you saying is that correct tech was applied
> for evil purposes, almost as black tech.
no...I didnt say the tech was correct...I said that Hubbards tech was
fatal poison at its
very core..... reverse engineering it though was limitlessly
valuable.
>
> Is that correct?
no, your assumption was not correct.
>
> >> ? ? ?So I am interested in which Grade or OT level started to produce
> >> the first occurance of missed false attestations, for there one will
> >> find the greatest pressure and out tech.
>
> > dianetics... R3R... acted to stimulate 10,000 times more material than
> > it resolved...
> > those 'chains' touched countless others, lit up, but not enough to
> > read on the meter,
> > so remained unhandled.... and too many to ever handle...
>
> OK, this is an issue of importance. Particularly if those chains
> were not your chains but where body chains, or BT chains, or stolen or
> bought chains.
>
> This would be a very severe problem if Dianetics restimulated more
> than it erased.
>
> > there are other ways of addressing that issue. mentioned in the bm
> > scripts..also
> > by John Galusha. none of it 'auditing'..more like mopping the floor.
>
> How is BM not auditing or running a process?
I wont chew that cabbage twice... it is clearly defined, you can call
it what you want.
I call it drills, and there is no EP... and the drills are to be done
for only seconds per day,
one or two seconds, not seeking any result.. nor sorting any
significances.. and especially not
with any goal in mind. so are not processing as you and eltubbo
use the term...
>
> > Hubbies entire approach had core level flaws, mixed with a few valid
> > aspects... sort of
> > like a computer with an OS developed by drunks. on balance it ends
> > badly regardless of
> > the rhetoric.
>
> Well Life Repair was basically a Prep Check done on this life.
>
> Is that not useful? Is it harmful?
it is neither.. it is both.. it is mind phuck... like red headed
women.. some good, some
bad bad bad... all of it fun... until she goes nutz on you... taking
it serously is the problem.
you took it seriously, I reverse engineered it
>
> What would produce a NO CASE GAIN on it.
a hard core demand that it produce what it promised..that would focus
you on the fact of its failure, and demonstrate
no case gain..... because you were not looking for the trace
indications of areas where you might have had some 'gain'..
temporary gain.
but you stuck with it even after it failed 100% miserably on
you.....apparently you swalled not just the bait, but the hook, line,
sinker...fishing pole and motor boat.
>
> >> ? ? ?And besides completion stats are more important than true valuable
> >> final products, eh. ?Any manager knows that.
>
> > no good apples fall from a good tree...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzt I sed,,, no good apples fall from a BAD tree.
>
> Service fac computation dude.
really now..
>
> >> ? ? ?So when I hear of people 'making' it all the way to OT VII, and
> >> THEN deattesting to all those gains, I wonder where the personal
> >> integrity was during that time.
>
> > Up to the space opera range, OT2 and 3 its not that loopy...beyond
>
> OK, thanks for this.
>
> > that
> > many gotts a clooo and head for the hills, not bothering to return and
> > de-attest..
>
> Well you indicate there wasn't anything to deattest to below OT 1.
no,,, I didnt say that...I said it only went totally loopy above OT2
and 3.. it was just fatally
flawed below that..clear to its egoecentric 'satanic' agenda ego
supreme core.
>
> Valid if weak gains.
>
> > why dont they de-attest... no integrity and fear of loosing the next
> > level that will 'fix' them.
> > why didnt I de-attest....
>
> So how come integrity auditing during each phase of the
> process doesn't catch this.
same reason a fish cant wash its fins... its already in the
medium... with humans the error is
built in, we are ego centric by nature... the processing is ego
centric... its self justifing... it knows not
integrity... it knows justifying, how to be right, and how to function
a world like that.
thats the human condition..... its fatal... but we are used to it.
even as we die like flies, we are used to it.
>
> > In your case, you remained justifing hubbards tech no matter how loopy
> > it got... until you had a complex
> > layer of rational why it should work, but of course it hasnt for
> > you...nor for 99% of those involved..
>
> > most leave scn as you know. you are not the only one.
> > except you remail loyal to El tubbo.
>
> I remain loyal to clearing. In doing a complete rescan
> of all the auditing I ever got from others and why it hasn't worked,
> and looking at what is now working, I see Hubbard was right
> in the axiohms, and potentially even right in the basics
> of approach, life repair, grades, etc, but the why it didn't
> work goes a lot deeper than blaming a process or the people
> who tried to apply it.
we will have to agree to disagree here.... I personally am sure
hubbard had his head
up his ass clear to his shoulder blades.... with the occasional beam
of truth squirting out
his ears... parsing that from the crap though can be difficult.
>
> cluelessness on the parts of the auditors and C/S's played
> a big role.
it played a dominant roll... also the fact of Hubbards insanity,
hubris and
core level errors insured failure long term. It did open pandora's
box though...then
he labled it truth... that was not progress.
>
> > why you have not done the drill 'what is right about hubbards stuff'
> > then 'what is fatally wrong with hubbards stuff'...point by point
> > you had apparently missed the massive range of bogus notions even
> > though he left many clues...such as cigarettes cure cancer and babies
> > should not drink mothers milk, but barley water...etc.
>
> Sorry, never heard that stuff, but have heard others.
denial of what hubbard wrote and was on all the basic courses in in
his technical dictionary Homer does
not become you.
>
> But I am not stuck in 'Bad trees only drop bad apples', and I have
> long known that Hubbard was an Idiot Savant, meaning in this case he had
> good stuff but it was poisoned by his erratic personality.
it was also pure poison at the core... hubbards personality was only
the
slightest fraction of it.
>
> > no... one rationalizes the losses and obvious bogusness, being sold on
> > the notion that
> > Hubbard was flawless, and one personally had all the problems...so a
> > person found some
> > reasons to claim gains, and attested to *those... the rest being
> > handled 'on the next level'
>
> Yes, the idea that Hubbard was flawless is a problem.
>
> But so is the idea that Hubbard was nothing but flaws.
dont spin me Homer...Hubbard was RIGHT..like a broken clock, twice a
day...and within seconds of being right
hundreds of times a day... so you noticed his rightness, and failed to
notice that he was entirely broken..led a broken
and insalely destructive life...and his crap only made you worse.
failed crap fails Homer.
>
> Even with all the harm that happened, he set the stage and
> foundation work for more good than anyone else in history has done to
> present time.
Lao Tsu had him beat by a billion miles... see the references in my
Beyond the Black Magicians series
for extended references..including a few for Hubbard.
>
> My opinion.
>
> Personally I think that if you pulled everyone out of the Church
> one by one, and ran Grades on them properly without fear of punishment,
> and with some attention to other peoples withholds and dones also,
> including Hubbard, four flow O/W, and then stuck them back in the Church
> with immunity, the whole thing might come together.
that would be beneficial in many aspects...but would not save the
fatally poisoned core
of Hubbards dogma, starting with the poisonous axioms and logics,
which I have parsed on act
many times and wont repeat here.
>
> But where ever there is absolute power, there will be problems, as
> criminals will bubble up to the highest levels to hide their dastardly
> deeds.
>
> So the monolithic political ladder that was created might need to
> be changed to a 3 center balance of power like we have in the
> constitution, with no one being able to control all.
see my google groups profie for a summar of my views in this area..
the poisonous tree need not be saved except by idiots..and those ruin
all they
touch.. you have not noticed that surface level gains, as with the
levels, that hook you into
deeper ego centric notions, fatal notions, are fatal.
read that paragraph again Homer.
>
> For example, if OSA were peer to sea org and had oversight like the
> justice department has oversight over the president, then maybe the
> Church could run on 3 cylinders out of 8 rather than just 1.
maybe...better it break the cranksaft though, shredded,
separated ...and be smelted into new steel...
Phil scott
>
> Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
> Dennis still does this, Don't let him fool you.
>> The ability to impose my will on others without regard for the effect
>> on them.
I am listening,
Perhaps you would like to elucidate on this to a newcomer.
Also please state your involvement with the Church and Grade and Level
attained.
ho...@lightlink.com
> up to Class 12. ?I trained, checked out, interned and crammed auditors
> up to Class 12 at Flag.
Thanks for this Dennis, that is quite high, Class 12's were almost
Gods in our eyes.
Did you do the SHSBC wall of tapes?
Can you clarify the difference between formal and informal
training?
Did you at any time feel you were in over your head in cramming
others more trained or audited than you?
Homer
Dennis L Erlich
> Did you do the SHSBC wall of tapes?
Yes, but not on a course. On post.
> Can you clarify the difference between formal and informal
>training?
Informal training is the kind where you study material on post and
*rate it in Qual per the High Crime Policy, so you can cram others on
it.
> Did you at any time feel you were in over your head in cramming
>others more trained or audited than you?
No, I was the equivalent of a Class 12 Cramming Officer. I had an
aura of effortless competence.
Dennis
----------------
"At this point, if we could go back in time and get rid of the internet
altogether, I would be all for it." - Professor Monica Pignotti (Nov 2009)
ho...@lightlink.com
> And concentration on families and their operating businesses must be put ahead of saving
> the planet.
The inner Church is much like a monastery, where people go to
relieve themselves of the world. Hard to attain enlightenment while
having to hold down a job and support a wife and 3 kids.
But then the gains made are only tested by the highly protected and
often suppressive environment provided by the Church, and the end result
is a scientology wog, someone who isn't sufficient to his own survival
outside the confines of the supporting Church.
Not enough rubbing elbows with the natives.
Anyhow the issue of sacrifice comes into play.
The thetan at sacrifice on the sub death tone scale is in sacrifice
to the body, he is sacrificing himself as a thetan to the needs and
future of the body. This comes from regret, and the will to make
amends, sometimes forever.
The church is built on sacrifice, the survival of the group is more
important than the survival of the individual, thus the individual is
expendable.
Since your average individual is at sacrifice or below anyhow,
he fits right into the niche designed for him by the Church.
Maybe if I give my life to this higher cause, God will finally
smile on me.
But expendability is relative to who he is being expended for.
In general a person is expendable relative to anyone higher on the
bridge or in management than he is, and since it is a monolithic cone up
to the top man, the whole thing is expendable for him.
Hubbard said that one dynamic must not be sacrificed for the
benefit of another, except in acute emergencies, and then only for a
while. Then it needs to be run out. But Hubbard create the Church in
permanent emergency condition until everyone in the universe was clear.
Thus the first and second dynamics get sacrificed to the third.
Use them, abuse them, and throw them away once expended, I always
say.
But the third dynamic is then sacrificed to the 4th, saving the
world, which is sacrificed to the good of the 7th, saving the sanity of
spirits everywhere, which is sacrificed to the Eighth, saving God's
paradise, which is who is is at the top of the food chain.
What actually happens is all dynamics are sacrificed to the third,
but the hype is we are working for the eighth and that's all that
matters.
In the marines they have rule that no man who is still alive should
be left behind on the battle field, no matter how many others die
trying to retrieve him.
There is none of this 'Well Joe is a fuck up, let him die'.
It would reflect on their own courage if they did, no matter what
the justification.
They live under the Muskateer rule,
"One for all, and all for one."
Consider for a moment if the Church would sacrifice itself for the
good of one of its members.
The Church lives under Muskrat the rule,
"One for all, and all for none."
I think in a war between the marines and the churchies, the marines
would win on this one point alone.
So think about, when asked which is more important, your family or
the saving of the planet, the correct answer is
They are equally important.
Except in a state of emergency and below maybe.
*FOR A WHILE*, and then audit it out.
Certainly never in a state of Normal Operation or Affluence.
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
>> It is possible that a process won't have an E/P, but that would
>>be pretty obvious after running it on a few hundred people.
>
> Not if you don't let them out of the room until they sign something
> saying they had one.
Unfortuntaely this is right, and as a tech point most of the F/N's
I had at the examiner were ARC break F/N's. The needle can float at
both ends of the scale. The difference is when the pc is in session and
willing, the needle will also read, but during a severe ARC break, it
just floats and floats and floats and there is no pc there, and it
floats some more etc.
Homer
I_stardust
ho...@lightlink.com
> I did through OT III, though I started having grave doubts after
> Power. As you said, after that it was all evaluation, though OpTerms
> could be interpreted as one's own mental constructs. I think the
> concept of BTs is made ridiculous by the space opera story presented
> as Truth Revealed. Drs. Hal and Sidra Stone have developed a therapy
> called Voice Dialogue, based on Jungian identities/archetypes, that's
> far more open-ended and credible.
> http://www.delos-inc.com/
OK, thanks for that, can you point me to the story behind
Truth Revealed, that is above OT VII, right? I was unaware
any of this had been well revealed :)
Homer
Zinj
As long as you run a 'process' where the 'process' must continue until
'VGI or a 'recovered ability' with a cog, you will have a process that
is by definition going to achieve that.
Especially if you make the target *pay* for every minute until he
achieves that 'EP'.
Zinj
ho...@lightlink.com
> It's ironic considering how Marty is running a gigantic Service
> Facsimile of his own on Aaron Saxton and anyone else who dares to
> question the efficacy of the tech or the inherently good intentions of
> LRH.
Well Aaron Saxton is running a service fac on everyone in the
Church, so its the same on all sides.
He is at least smart enough to tell us to target the Sea Org and
not the outer Church, but he also repudiates any wins he had in
auditing, and maybe he didn't have much.
Then he goes and talks about missed withholds etc, so all these
guys are using plain old orthodox Hubbard against Hubbard.
So when they say scientology doesn't work, I have to laugh, because
there they are using it against a criminal pc, and doing a pretty good
job.
Anyhow the Church is lost in a GPM structure that goes from the top
trying to help everyone, to the bottom trying to stick everyone in tar.
Everyone is saying auditing doesn't work, so the GPM never gets
audited.
As-isness does work, and alter-isness does cause persistence, and
not-isness does cause the apparency of as-isness, ending in a dwindling
spiral of dismay and spiritual demise.
Anyone arguing with that should not be in Scientology.
But many of those in scientology don't actually know any
scientology, if they do, they never got real on as-isness, alter-isness
and not-isness.
Real shallow in other words, or they are just there for the job or
the license to dramatize overwhelm on others.
The real issues when pulling withholds is whose withholds are you
pulling.
If society or Hubbard says pulling your pud is an overt, then that
becomes a withhold. But you may feel it brings you closer to God, and
God help anyone who tries to blossom the sexual interests of anyone
under 18.
So the whole point of real auditing is the safe space, and getting
at the ethics problems the being himself is interested in, not the ones
everone else is interested in.
I mean in the Church the ability to recognize the source of
problems and make them vanish is simply to agree with your superiors :)
Is that really the E/P of Grade 1?
Arguments about whether the tech works or not are really very
stupid to anyone who actually understands the underlying basics. Those
who don't are too shallow to talk to.
The real arguments are not over basics but over specific
approaches.
For example surely a being is better off knowing his own forgotten
witholds than not, but what is the right way to go about jarring his
memory.
Part of what beings are witholding are their overts in the
direction of not allowing beings to confess! Now they can't if they
wanted to. So that gets rough.
Surely a being is better off rehabbing his original basic purposes,
rather than continuing with 13 levels of failed substitutions.
The Church DEPENDS on people NOT rehabbing their basic purposes,
because the being would leave if he did to GO DO THEM, but depends
instead on subsituting being an auditor or saving the planet instead, as
the 14th level of substitution.
All we are trying to do is to get a being to stop dealing with
failures by not-ising them, and then to recover past moments of
not-isness, until the being is able to confront everything he or anyone
else has ever done or will do.
That this is beneficial is obvious to anyone who isn't an idiot
still addicted to denial or not-isness.
But HOW to recover a being from HIS OWN abyss of not-isness is a
difficult matter.
And then how to build a production line organization run by
not-issers that will then properly implement the un not-ising of
themselves and its customers is a whopper of a problem.
Bigger than me and thee perhaps.
ho...@lightlink.com
phil scott <ph...@philscott.net> wrote:
> those aside from gaining flexability on that range of issues, getting
> unstuck etc.. act as
> LISTING QUESTIONS... with no fucking way out... the victim ends up
Have to agree, which is why generally I post the SPOT form of
auditing. In fact my present position is ANY question asking at all in
auditing is a high crime, because the preclears basic aberrations stem
from making things persist by asking questions about them.
So instead I would actually run,
Spot SOME item.
Spot NO item.
And if you read any of the white papers I post on a.c.t, you will
know that is the way I always post processes these days.
the SICKEST thing in scientology technology is the
Whatsit? line.
Hubbard defined auditing as ASKING QUESITONS and getting answers,
rather than giving COMMANDS and getting descriptions.
Also the last process
"What did you do?"
"What did you not?"
is too one flowy, I would actually run it as.
"Spot something done."
"Spot something not done."
to include all 5 flows.
Many prefer to run one at a time, I tend toward running the
reticlum as a whole. (Those who don't know what a reticulum is, go look
it up.)
Thanks to Speaker Allen.
Homer
> burried up the creek
> with no paddle.... those are GENERAL questions.... they are GENERAL
> lising questions,
> guaranteed to ruin all they touch..... repeated are entirely fatal in
> the long term.. in the short
> term there would be some realization about ones relationship to these
> issues.
>
> the person would end up burried in unfathomable (generalized,
> significances)....
>
>
>
> Phil scott
--
ho...@lightlink.com
> no... its the human condition. its endemic with individuals, we all
> try to do what we think is right for us
> at the time, then we justify it. since we are mostly idiots,
> speaking for myself predominantly, we end
> up justifing our error...that goes terminally south.
Sorry, I have to disagree with this analysis.
Service fac computions are always illogical and insane, never far
from the truth, but just wrong enough to bring downfall.
Take the following statements,
"Good trees never give bad fruit.
Bad trees never give good fruit.
If a tree gives any bad fruit, it is a bad tree.
If a tree gives any good fruit, it is a good tree."
These are all encompassing statements, which on the face of it
might look sensible, but which in fact are wrong, and which will prevent
proper discrimination on the gradient scale of good to bad trees.
I still assert that the Church is run by service fac computations,
as was Hubbard, and nothing will change until they are spotted and run
out R3SC or whatever works better.
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
>> > why you have not done the drill ?'what is right about hubbards stuff'
>> > then 'what is fatally wrong with hubbards stuff'...point by point
>> > you had apparently missed the massive range of bogus notions even
>> > though he left many clues...such as cigarettes cure cancer and babies
>> > should not drink mothers milk, but barley water...etc.
>>
>
> denial of what hubbard wrote and was on all the basic courses in in
> his technical dictionary Homer does
> not become you.
I recall no such comment that cigarettes cure cancer, only that a
being in present time can smoke safely.
I recall no such comment about baby milk or barely water.
Certainly not in the tech dictionary which I have read a number of
times, but if its there I would like a pointer to page.
Or basic staff hatting.
Thanks Homer
Skipper
Service facs don't exist, but you probably have one held in place that
will make you defend their existence. ;-)
phil scott
and I will assert than any effort expended to save the insane cult is
more than a waste of
time, it is a waste of human life.... scn needs to sink back into
the pit from which it came
and fragments of validity will float to the top... or be discovered by
reverse engineering as Ive
done
there is about five percent signficant advance in scn but few are
able to separate that from
the toxin so its net effect is poisonous
Phil scott
phil scott
I dont keep any scn books,.. those two references are quite comonly
known among scn's
along with dozens of other bits of insanity spread all over ars by
various web sites with detailed
references for fifteen years now.... hubbard died completely insane,
his spawn is criminally insane.
I will not spend any time trying to reprove the already established
scene.
99% crap is good enough for me to call it a turd..... you cand
parsing out each turd in this current circumstance is grossly
redundant.. sorry you can spend your days digging out
bits of peanuts though,,,, mmmm good
thats just how it is
phil scott
Out_Of_The_Dark
> In article
> <313df810-84fd-4b0f-92e3-d001bf6a6...@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Out_Of_The_Dark <formerlyfoo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 29, 7:34 pm, Skipper <skipSPAMpr...@yahoo.not> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <a3a4ad67-9911-41a6-8072-a76e44524...@e22g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > Out_Of_The_Dark <formerlyfoo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 29, 6:32 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for 15 years!"
> > > > <arnaldole...@lermanet.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Nov 29, 4:24 pm, Out_Of_The_Dark <formerlyfoo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Nov 28, 11:49 pm, "Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for 15 years!"
>
> > > > > > <arnaldole...@lermanet.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Nov 28, 8:50 pm, ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Alan C Walter has died.
>
> > > > > > > > Homer
>
> > > > > > > > --
>
> > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > ----
> > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > Lightlink
> > > > > > > > (607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access,
> > > > > > > > Ithaca
> > > > > > > > NY
> > > > > > > > ho...@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty
> > > > > > > > http://www.lightlink.com
>
> > > and immediately started accusing me of murdering Laura Hippe, which of
> > > course was total bullshit and I could've sued you.
>
> > > And no matter how many times that's mentioned, you're still too
> > > CHICKENSHIT to acknowledge what a creep thing that was to do.
>
> > > Want to admit your idiocy now?
>
> > > > god.memo BE CLOSER TO GOD
> > > > by Alan Walter
>
> > > > "Failure to duplicate God's attributes is the basis of sin."
> > > > BE CLOSER TO GOD by Alan Walters 1986
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.clearing.technology/msg/da3ff38c2a...
>
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > relationship with her and trashed her all across usenet as a worthless
> > alcoholic Funny, she wasn't one when I knew her and you kept coming to
> > her house acting like you
> > needed her when you did before Brent cam,e along, even afterwards. You
> > were the leech that wouldn't let go over all those years. No wonder
> > she became an alcoholic.
>
> > You know I never said you killed Laura but you keep repeating that I
> > posted that you did. Once again, post the link to where I said what
> > you accuse me of saying YOU killed her. Oops, I forgot. There is no
> > such post and that's why you never reply with it. It must suck being
> > Skip Press.
>
> Well, I'm not going to drag up posts from Google groups to prove
> anything to a nutball like you, but frankly Laura was an alcoholic who
> could fool anyone, make an e-meter float at will WHILE high or not (I
> watched her do it with an auditor from Celebrity Centre who came to her
> place). Stupid as you are, she fooled you and you never caught on. It
> took my living with her to find out, and even then a while as I finally
> figured out a lingering smell and found vodka bottles. She was a very
> good actress, very talented, and her alcoholism definitely ruined her
> career and took her out. She took diet pills to stay slim starting with
> being in "Lucky Lady" as I recall, that ate away at her muscle mass,
> and she started drinking to literally kill the pain. Of course, you'd
> have to be interested in facts instead of emotion to put together the
> string of events, and you're incapable.
>
> She was, unfortunately for her, an endless but very clever liar,
> getting someone to call her students any time she was too drunk to
> teach cold reading, and they always thought she was sick from
> something, as did I, for a while.
>
> Your recitation of events is again utterly wrong. I never had anything
> to do with Laura except barely knowing her when she was dating and
> engaged to Brent Daniels. She probably tried to kill herself when he
> broke up with her. When I told her I couldn't live with alcoholism and
> she needed to do something, she attempted suicide. I found her and
> saved her life, and in the waiting room of the hospital, her mother
> told me she'd done that several times before, always over boyfriends,
> so she could have tried over Brent, I don't know.
>
> I found out most of this after I saved her life from her suicide
> attempt and was up 48 hours straight with her at the hospital downtown.
>
> The facts are in county records at the hospital and with the Hollywood
> Police Department (they did a thorough investigation). Not that you're
> smart enough to look into something like that. It's easier just to
> spout your worthless bile here.
>
> Wouldn't let her go? You are truly insane. I did my best to help Laura
> but ultimately failed like everyone did, and enabling ignorant twits
> like you are why she's dead - she basically needed a group intervention
> and a lot of help OUT of $cientology.
>
> Try some more projection and start telling yourself the truth about who
> it really sucks being, because that's the cancer eating your soul, and
> it's my guess you'll never beat it.
>
> Meanwhile, I'm an internationally known journalist and author, and you
> are... not much.
>
> You still can't address your lies.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Same old bla bla bla bullcrap. As I have told you before, you are a
liar and you have no proof of what you accuse me of. Here is the post
I've said I would reply with everytime you stalk me and post these
lies
http://tinyurl.com/yl3o96s
ps: Only in your own mind are you a legend.
Out_Of_The_Dark
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
According to an email I received from Logan he contacted Rathbun and
reached out to him, despite what had been done to him by Rathbun.
Perhaps he was trying to get some connection to the past, as he was
quite devastated for many years because of the enforced separation
from Annie.
Maybe Logan was thinking, any connection is better than no connection?
Skipper
<df2df0f0-8155-4c38...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Out_Of_The_Dark <formerl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
There you go again, you piece of shit.
You can't be specific about anything, so it's just "same old bullcrap."
I countered a specific LIE you told and you won't even address it. Next
time I run into you, remind me that I can't smack you because you're
such a worthless twat.
And please keep demonstrating it, psycho. I respond to a post of yours
countering lies and to you, that's "stalking". Wow, you may be the
craziest person I ever met in the cult, and you've only gotten worse.
Magoo
"Out_Of_The_Dark" <formerl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0a4d7693-535d-4fc9...@x16g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 28, 8:50 pm, ho...@lightlink.com wrote:
> Alan C Walter has died.
>
> Homer
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
> (607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
> ho...@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
Homer, my condolences to you on the loss of your friend. There's a
nice thread on ESMB started by Dart Smohen, with lots of kind
responses from the posters who knewAlan from there.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15003
Mary McConnell
Magoo
"Magoo" <mag...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:sq0Rm.32564$Sw5....@newsfe16.iad...
May he rest in peace......or knowing Alan....he's busy dancing
with the angels a' high :) My love to allllllllllllllll his friends and
family. :)
Tory/Magoo
>
>
ho...@lightlink.com
>> Did you at any time feel you were in over your head in cramming
>>others more trained or audited than you?
>
> No, I was the equivalent of a Class 12 Cramming Officer. I had an
> aura of effortless competence.
Cool. Did anyone getting formal training complain or
resent that your training was 'informal?'
Homer
ho...@lightlink.com
> As long as you run a 'process' where the 'process' must continue until
> 'VGI or a 'recovered ability' with a cog, you will have a process that
> is by definition going to achieve that.
>
> Especially if you make the target *pay* for every minute until he
> achieves that 'EP'.
Hi Zinj,
Thanks for writing.
Would you mind telling me your involvement in the church
and the Grade and Class levels attained?
Thanks Homer
>
> Zinj
ho...@lightlink.com
> Service facs don't exist, but you probably have one held in place that
> will make you defend their existence. ;-)
Thanks for that.
And your Grade and Class level attained in the Church?
Homer
Patty Pieniadz
Same old bla bla bla bullcrap. As I have told you before, you are a
liar and you have no proof of what you accuse me of. Here is the post
I've said I would reply with everytime you stalk me and post these
lies
http://tinyurl.com/yl3o96s
ps: Only in your own mind are you a legend.
I see our xian Mary continues to spread love, tolerance and brotherhood
where ever she goes.
Eldon
> phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> >> > why you have not done the drill ?'what is right about hubbards stuff'
> >> > then 'what is fatally wrong with hubbards stuff'...point by point
> >> > you had apparently missed the massive range of bogus notions even
> >> > though he left many clues...such as cigarettes cure cancer and babies
> >> > should not drink mothers milk, but barley water...etc.
>
> >> ? ? Sorry, never heard that stuff, but have heard others.
>
> > denial of what hubbard wrote and was on all the basic courses in in
> > his technical dictionary Homer does
> > not become you.
>
> I recall no such comment that cigarettes cure cancer, only that a
> being in present time can smoke safely.
The lecture is on the Internet, from 1964 I believe. He didn't say
smoking would cure cancer. He said that continuing to smoke would
prevent it, since people who stopped would be deprived of the
imaginary nicotinic acid (niacin) in cigarette smoke.
Eldon
By that I meant the Xenu story. I probably didn't quote correctly.
However, in the general sense, that's how OT III is presented.
Ted Mayett
>That sounds healthy, Ted, because asking people to go through those
>sorts of "processes" and recording their effusions sounds really creepy
>to me. It's a bit like having been videotaped at a party, dancing on the
>table wearing a lampshade, that kind of thing. But they weren't
>videotaping that stuff when you were in, were they?
>
>Peach
When I was in, those two orgs in vegas, they were lucky when the
toilets and light switches worked properly. They were not videotaping
anything. And the poverty of the orgs and the lack of technical
experience notwithstanding, wasn't it about 1998 or so when those
videos started outside of Flag? If they even do videotape outside of
Flag.
You wouldn't mind being taped if you did not mind doing these
processes. Besides, I don't know for sure, but wouldn't the camera be
on the Auditor, and as such be catching the back of the pc's head.
--
Ted Mayett
Critical information regarding Scientology
http://www.solitarytrees.net
Dennis L Erlich
> Cool. Did anyone getting formal training complain or
>resent that your training was 'informal?'
No. I didn't audit those levels. I just interned and crammed the
auditors who did.
D
Skipper
<ars.to.t...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote:
Ha! That's one of the funniest things about the orgs when I was around
them - half the time, they couldn't afford toilet paper. Can you
imagine? They're charging hundreds of dollars an hour for supposed
spiritual freedom and they can't afford toilet paper.
realpch
I don't when it started. So it's only at Flag? I don't where the camera
is pointed either. Maybe somebody else knows.
Peach
--
Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
Save some dough, save some grief:
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.scientology-lies.com
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON for 15 years!
> Dennis L Erlich <infor...@informer.org> wrote:
>
> > My formal training went to Class 4, NOTs. ?My informal training went
> > up to Class 12. ?I trained, checked out, interned and crammed auditors
> > up to Class 12 at Flag.
>
> Thanks for this Dennis, that is quite high, Class 12's were almost
> Gods in our eyes.
>
> Did you do the SHSBC wall of tapes?
>
> Can you clarify the difference between formal and informal
> training?
>
> Did you at any time feel you were in over your head in cramming
> others more trained or audited than you?
>
Homer,
Did you ever notice that it was the not-quite-bright ones
that ended up in "TECH"... if I were running a global scam, I would
make sure that the really bright ones stayed the hell away from the
"TECH".. cause then I would not have to worry about them figuring out
exactly how THE TRICK WAS DONE.
All you have to do to induce the deepest TRANCE state (pain
free) is to cause another to imagine something that IS NOT REALLY
THERE and repeat it a dozen times...
"Auditing is a simple, thoroughly designed means, of concentrating the
mind to the state of a controlled trance. The aim and result is
progressively to enforce loyalty to and identification with
Scientology to the detriment of one's natural awareness of divergent
ways of thinking and outside cultural influences. Love and allegiance
are more and more given exclusively to Scientology and L. Ron
Hubbard."
Dr. John Gordon Clark, Doctor of Medicine of Harvard Medical School
"The most effective weapons of the Oppressor Are the minds of the
Oppressed" Steve Biko
Eldon
>
> > >That sounds healthy, Ted, because asking people to go through those
> > >sorts of "processes" and recording their effusions sounds really creepy
> > >to me. It's a bit like having been videotaped at a party, dancing on the
> > >table wearing a lampshade, that kind of thing. But they weren't
> > >videotaping that stuff when you were in, were they?
>
> > >Peach
>
> > When I was in, those two orgs in vegas, they were lucky when the
> > toilets and light switches worked properly. They were not videotaping
> > anything. And the poverty of the orgs and the lack of technical
> > experience notwithstanding, wasn't it about 1998 or so when those
> > videos started outside of Flag? If they even do videotape outside of
> > Flag.
>
> > You wouldn't mind being taped if you did not mind doing these
> > processes. Besides, I don't know for sure, but wouldn't the camera be
> > on the Auditor, and as such be catching the back of the pc's head.
>
> > --
> > Ted Mayett
> > Critical information regarding Scientology
> >http://www.solitarytrees.net
>
> I don't when it started. So it's only at Flag? I don't where the camera
> is pointed either. Maybe somebody else knows.
Back around 1975 at ASHO, they were using video cameras to show
auditing sessions to students on the Special Briefing Course, but I
think they weren't recorded. The camera was mainly aimed at the meter
so you could match the reads with the conversation between auditor and
PC.
Ted Mayett
wrote:
>Ha! That's one of the funniest things about the orgs when I was around
>them - half the time, they couldn't afford toilet paper. Can you
>imagine? They're charging hundreds of dollars an hour for supposed
>spiritual freedom and they can't afford toilet paper.
Yeah, you didn't want to go to the org needing the restroom. If you
needed paper that is, as there might be any there, sigh.
Dennis L Erlich
idiot posing as Ted
>> You wouldn't mind being taped if you did not mind doing these
>> processes.
I don't know to which "you" psudoTed is talking, but any sane person
would mind being video taped in religious confessions.
These tapes are reviewed by numerous people. It would be like video
taping a confession booth in a Catholic church.
>Besides, I don't know for sure, but wouldn't the camera be
>> on the Auditor, and as such be catching the back of the pc's head.
Not knowing much about the subjects he addresses ... that's the
~hallmark~ of pseudoTed's postings here.
peach
>I don't when it started.
In the 70's. At first it was just audio.
>So it's only at Flag?
No. All orgs eventually adopted it as a way to train and intern
auditors, crack difficult cases and spot false reporting.
>I don't where the camera
>is pointed either. Maybe somebody else knows.
The camera was located over the auditor's right or left shoulder and
pointed so it caught the meter and mark's upper torso in one shot.
It was a good way to find out if auditors could read a meter. As well
as other things about the sessions.
But incredibly invasive.
Ted Mayett
<info...@informer.org> wrote:
>Not knowing much about the subjects he addresses ... that's the
>~hallmark~ of pseudoTed's postings here.
>
Jeez, I get the distinct impression you are upset with Rev. Whatever
could I have done to upset you I wonder.
bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
And while I've got you on the line here Rev. Dennis Erlich, I've got
some instructions for you and I expect them be followed. You are to
remove all reference to the SubGenius from your InFormer Ministry web
page. And I want this done right now, and I do mean RIGHT NOW.
I'll check again on your InFormer Ministry web page, tomorrow,
Wednesday evening, Eastern Time. And when I check that doobshead logo
had better be gone from all the web pages on your Ministry site.
There is no discussion here, I am telling specifically what to do, and
I fully expect you to do, exactly what I tell you to do, and when I
tell you to do it. Do you understand this? GOOD. Now go and do what
I just told you to do. And do it N.O.W.
ho...@lightlink.com
> The lecture is on the Internet, from 1964 I believe. He didn't say
> smoking would cure cancer. He said that continuing to smoke would
> prevent it, since people who stopped would be deprived of the
> imaginary nicotinic acid (niacin) in cigarette smoke.
Well Hubbard said a lot of things best left buried.
But it is a medical fact that some people who stop smoking
suddenly or lose a lot a weight often suffer catestrophic medical
incidents afterwards.
Homer
realpch
People would have had to have totally have ignored their essential sense
of self protection to allow this to happen to them. Or alternately, have
been convinced of the benevolent purposes of the organization.
Eldon
Well, when I stopped smoking, I got crazy and depressed from brain
chemical changes, which is common. But that wasn't a "medical
incident." I took Zyban (an atypical antidepressant) for several
months, and that pretty much fixed it.
BTW, your thing about weight is irrelevant in this context. People who
stop smoking usually gain weight for various reasons, and it's a bitch
to take it off afterward.