inFormer Ministry document wrongly witheld from public disclosure - cleaned-up

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inFormer Ministry
826A Fischer Street
Glendale, CA 91205


July 17, 1998

Jim Brophy
Internal Revenue Service
Exempt Organizations
3730 Elizabeth Ave.
Independence, Missouri

In reference to in former Ministry EIN 95-4666521 Application for
Recognition

Dear Mr. Brophy,

Hopefully, with this response, I will go to answer your points in general,
overall manner, and give a point by point rebuttal to the issues you raise
in your letter.

One. I was ordained a minister of the Church of Scientology in 1969.

Two. During the years between 1969 and 1982 I was employed as a minister by
Scientology, I was compensated only by what the Scientologists misidentified
as parts of my parsonage allowance. I didn't know until just recently that
the designation of my pay as "parsonage allowance" apparently exempted them
from paying into my Social Security account for 13 years.

Three. During the two years between 1982 -1984, I broke away from the
organized Scientology church, and found God. God gave me a mission. To
carry on His will, I began my own ministry; the "inFormer Ministry."

Four. In 1997, inFormer Ministry Inc. has California nonprofit religious
educational corporation number 201Is1733.

Five. The inFormer Ministry plans to establish a church which will be a
sanctuary and halfway house, for victims of cult abuse. The aim of the
project is to assist cult victims in finding their own way back into being
productive members of society after serious cultic involvement. We will
establish and operate a center for rehabilitation of cult victims; providing
counseling and similar services. We plan to carry on a broad-based
solicitation program and will depend primarily on government grants,
corporate contributions, and individual donations for funding.

The inFormer Ministry made application to the IRS for legal recognition as a
church PRIOR to establishing said facility, in order to first comply with
any legal requirements, and then, once recognized, to solicit for the funds,
to find and establish the facility, and finally put into place policies for
the internal workings of the church, in the manner directed by God, the
board of directors and a consensus of members.

Perhaps there is some other 501(c)3 designation which more appropriately
fits the Ministry. I honestly do not know. But I do know that a church is
what we are planning in the near future to establish.

I, as a reformer, and a dissident, breakaway minister of the Church of
Scientology, am requesting for my proposed church, only precisely the same
rights and status that the IRS granted to L. Ron Hubbard, and to his church.

If, as a reformer minister, I am not entitled to the same rights and
recognition for my religion, as I had when I was a minister of Scientology,
it would seem clear that the IRS is discriminating against my religion, in
favor of Scientology. Inasmuch as the establishment clause of the US
Constitution clearly forbids doing so, any such violation of my
constitutional rights will result in my use of every legal means of recourse
available to me to remedy it. Any failure to do so might be interpreted as
a willingness to forfeit rights.

You say:

The term "church" is not specifically defined in the Internal Revenue Code.
However, because special tax rules apply to churches, it is important that
we distinguish churches from other religious organizations.

I respond:

If you intend to deny inFormer Ministry the status of the church, please
take the time to inform me about the other types of religious organizations
which the IRS distinguishes from churches. Considering also that the
informer ministers intend to provide a church facility for the
rehabilitation and counseling of cult victims in the near future, it is very
unclear in the application for recognition that there are other types of
religious nonprofit organizations into which category the Ministry and his
facility might also be placed, besides that of a church. I would appreciate
your assistance in bringing these other suitable categories to my attention.

You say:

Although the following are not all inclusive, and not all apply in every
case, these characteristics, together with other pertinent facts and
circumstances, are generally weighed in determining whether an organization
constitutes a church for federal tax purposes.

Certain characteristics are generally attributed to churches.

I respond:

With all due respect, are these "generally attributed characteristics"
stated in the statute, in legal precedent, by written IRS policy, or by
someone's personal definition? If you intend to deny recognition based on
any alleged absence in the requirement of any of these characteristics,
please cite the specific sources to which you refer for the requirement.

You say (these characteristics) include:

A. A distinct legal existence.
B. A recognized creed and form of worship.
C. A definite and distinct ecclesiastical government.
D. A formal code of doctrine and discipline.
E. A distinct religious history.
F. A membership not associated with any other church or denomination.
G. A complete organization of ordained ministers ministering to their
congregations
H. Ordained a minister is selected after completing prescribed courses of
study.
I. A literature of its own.
J. Unestablished place of worship.
K. A regular congregation.
L. Regular religious services,
M. Sunday schools for the religious instruction of the young.
N. Schools for the preparation of its ministers.

1A. In your application you indicate that you are not a private foundation
because you are a church.

I respond:

We are in the process of establishing a church, yes we assume that the first
step of that process is to get legal recognition as a church. After which
we could solicit funds for the establishment of the church facilities.

IRS says:

The organization has not shown that it should be classified as a church or a
religious organization.

inFormer Ministry responds:

Again with all due respect I find this offhanded statement to be highly
disturbing and prejudiced. I am an ordained minister. I have been since
1969. I am applying to the IRS in the proper form for legal permission to
establish a church through which to carry out my Ministry. Your failure to
see the endeavor of my ministry as religious could arguably be characterized
as evidence of a prejudice against my religion.

Let me state again, that I sincerely believe that God has chosen me to
establish this church and to do his work using it as a vehicle.

IRS says:

In fact, the church has no active members...

inFormer Ministry responds:

While it is true that the mechanisms for forming memberships have not yet
been established, just as the building in which the church will reside and
where services will be held have not been purchased or rented, informal
membership in the church already exists. Members exist all over the world
who know of, and support the inFormer Ministry via the Internet. Our chosen
"place" of fellowship is cyberspace. If you insist on hearing from those
people who consider themselves to be members or volunteer members of the
inFormer Ministry, or who will become members of the church once
established, give me your e-mail address and such attestations as can be
solicited without violating anyone's privacy will be forwarded to you.

IRS says:

... And has not established it meets the criteria shown above.

inFormer Ministry responds:

It seems that the "characteristics and attributes" mentioned above have
suddenly been transformed into the criteria for my church is lawful
existence. Was this the intent of your denial?

IRS says:

If you disagree explain in detail how the organization meets each of the
criteria shown above.

inFormer Ministry responds:

I disagree that my organization must meet each of the criteria shown above.
A point by point rebuttal of your mischaracterization of the inFormer
Ministry is given below.

But the clear implication of your last sentence is that each of the criteria
must exist for a church to be granted legal status by the IRS. This would
again appear as prejudicial against my religion, as well as a violation of
the establishment clause of the United States Constitution.

IRS says:

If you agree please refer to 1b shown below.
b. Please check box J of question 10 on the enclosed page 6 and we will
determine the organizations correct classification.

inFormer Ministry responds:

Without forfeiting any rights I have check box J of question 10 and enclosed
page 6 with this letter.

IRS says:

Please also complete the enclosed form 872 -C and sign the enclosed
statement to request an advance ruling.

inFormer Ministry responds:

(Enclosed)

So, notwithstanding the above disclaimers and objections, I will explain in
as much detail as I can how the church, once established, will deal with the
issues in your "criteria for church status checklist."

IRS:

A. A distinct legal existence.

inFormer Ministry:

inFormer Ministry already is California nonprofit corporation number
2011733.

IRS:

D. A recognized creed and form of worship.

inFormer Ministry:

As stated in the application, our creed is "... in the service of cult
victims and their families."

Our forms of worship are individual prayer giving aid and comfort to those
in need or in pain, giving thanks for the blessings God has bestowed upon
us, and working to establish a direct personal relationship with the Creator
by seeking Him through prayer, hopefully coming to know Him and attempting
in our lives to do His will.

IRS:

C. A definite and distinct ecclesiastical government.

inFormer Ministry:

I am the sole minister. With the counsel and guidance of the Creator, the
other board members, and volunteer members, it is I who currently directs
the ecclesiastical actions of the inFormer Ministry.

IRS:

D. A formal code of doctrine and discipline.

inFormer Ministry:

The 10 Commandments, and the moral parables contained in the Holy Bible form
the basis of our code of doctrine and discipline.

IRS:

E. A distinct religious history.

inFormer Ministry:

I was ordained a minister in the Church of Scientology. I found God. I
accepted the task He assigned to me. That's mission is to bring comfort and
aid to cult victims and their families. And to raise public awareness
regarding the signs and dangers of cultic fanaticism, and thereby perhaps to
provide insight that might lead to a solution to this pressing social issue.

IRS:

F. A membership not associated with any other church or denomination.

inFormer Ministry:

Membership is currently not associated with any other church or denomination
it will be formally established once a facility for the congregation can be
procured, when funding has been secured, after the churches nonprofit status
has been recognized.

IRS:

G. A complete organization of ordained ministers ministering to their
congregations.

inFormer Ministry:

There is only one minister: me. This requirement seems to make the
implication that a single minister cannot form a church in America. Is this
your understanding of it?

IRS:

H. ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of study.

inFormer Ministry:

At some point a plan to select, train and ordain other ministers could
possibly be instituted, yes. However, I, as the sole minister of the
church, was ordained after a prescribed course of study.

IRS:

I. A literature of its own.

inFormer Ministry:

The Ministry owns rights to the writings contained in me "Informer
Newsletter," to the newsletter itself, and the sum of the essays and musical
compositions of Rev. Dennis Erlich.

IRS:

J. An established place of worship.

inFormer Ministry:

We believe the worship occurs within person, wherever one goes, in one's
actions, and in one's life. As soon as the Ministry can solicit funds based
on its nonprofit status, those funds will go to establishing a place of
worship and sanctuary for recovering cult victims. It will be a church.

In the meantime the Ministry occupies the largest room in my small,
one-bedroom, rented home. It is in that room where prayer, counseling,
worship, publishing and other Ministry activities are conducted.

IRS:

K. A regular congregation.

inFormer Ministry:

Thousands of people on the Internet read my published words every day.
Although we may not be "regular," we do have daily fellowship on the
Internet. It is "there" that our congregation takes place. We also have
congregations that gather in the Ministry or in people's homes or on the
street corners, spreading our message about the dangers of cultic
fanaticism.

Once established as a church in our new facility, our congregation will
gather there as well.

IRS:

L. Regular religious services,

inFormer Ministry:

Currently the services are through daily prayer. The church facility, once
established, while have a chapel, and altar and regular religious services.
The services will be performed not only by Rev. Erlich, but also by
ministers and clergy of other faiths interested in the problems associated
with the cultic experience.

IRS:

M. Sunday schools for the religious instruction of the young.

inFormer Ministry:

None is established at this time. After we are successfully functioning as
a retreat and rehabilitation sanctuary for adult recovering cult that comes,
we will certainly consider how to deal with minors who have experienced
cultic upbringings. In that eventuality, we will provide an appropriate
setting for their rehabilitation and care, based on the recommendations of
court appointed experts in child development and related fields.

IRS:

M. Schools for the preparation of its ministers.

inFormer Ministry:

None are established at this time. Our work is performed by volunteers. At
some point after setting up the facility, the training of ministers will be
planned, organized and effectuated.

IRS:

Two. Provide a schedule for the $3000 reported on line 9 of page 8. The
schedule must provide specific details of the merchandise sold.

inFormer Ministry:

Line 9 page 8 requests not only gross receipts from merchandise sold, but
also services. The $3000 reflected on the application was in exchange for
the ministries volunteer services provided to the city of Los Angeles in the
production of the Mayor's Volunteer Festival on April 18, 1998. A copy of
the invoices to the city of Los Angeles for services is attached hereto.

IRS:

Three. Provide a specific schedule of the occupancy expense of $500 and
$1000 shown on line 20 of page 8. To whom were these expenses paid?

inFormer Ministry:

Those expenses accrued at a monthly rate of $100 at the beginning of each
calendar month since March 1997 as an occupancy charge and parsonage
allowance (in accordance with IRC section 107) for the ministries current
occupancy in my house; to partially defray such expenses incurred by the
Ministry's very existence. Inasmuch as the Ministry occupies the largest
room in a small one-bedroom, $600 per month, rented house, the amount was
considered reasonable, though it mostly went unpaid for lack of Ministry
funds. The expenses were only partially paid by the Ministry to me when the
Ministry accumulated sufficient funds to do so on May 30, 1998 in the amount
of $1000, and on July 6, 1998 in the amount of $200.

IRS:

Four. Provide the date and chronology of the [illegible] and description of
the activities of the organization for the past year.

inFormer Ministry:

This request doesn't fully make sense, however I will do my best to answer
it.

I publish daily messages to the Internet on USENET newsgroups related to the
cult. These essays, advices, answers and responses are directed to members,
their families and those concerned about cults.

In the past year with the assistance of other volunteers members of the
Ministry, I have been interviewed by, appeared on, or been quoted on the
subject of cults by Dateline NBC, ABC's Turning Point, CBS's 60 minutes,
National Public Radio, Channel One Network, Wired Magazine, the BBC, German
National TV, LA weekly, Wall Street Journal, Boston Herald, New Times, A&E
Investigative Reports, American Lawyer, and hundreds of websites all over
the Internet.

To raise awareness about the dangers of cults, the Ministry helped organize
and participate in two pickets commemorating the death of a young lady at
the hands of a cult; one day in December 1997 and one in March of 1998.

Ministry volunteers also produce the Mayor's Volunteer Festival for the City
of Los Angeles April 18, 1998 at Harbor College.

IRS:

Five. Explain how each of the organization's activities are structured to
be within the meaning of section 501(C)3.

inFormer Ministry:

A 501(c)3 organization is designed to serve the public purpose. In former
Ministry activities serve the public purpose by raising awareness concerning
the indications of cultic manipulations, informing consumers regarding
fraudulent claims made by cults, sharing an insider's understanding about
how cults operate, and providing a direction to go in order to seek the
solution to and perhaps they rehabilitation from cultic fanaticism; one of
society's most troubling and demonstrably dangerous social ills.

inFormer Ministry will establish and operate a sanctuary center and halfway
house for rehabilitation of cult victims; providing counseling and similar
services. We plan to carry on a broad-based solicitation program and will
depend primarily on government grants, corporate contributions and
individual donations for funding.

IRS:

Six. Provide copies of the organization's brochures, pamphlets, or any
other literature developed by the organization.

inFormer Ministry:

Enclosed

IRS:

Seven. Provide proposed budgets for the years 1998 and 1999 on the enclosed
page.

inFormer Ministry:

Enclosed

IRS:

Eight. A board of directors that includes representatives from the
community is an indication that the organization will serve public purposes
rather than private interests. Do you plan to expand your board to include
nonrelated members of the community? Provide details.

inFormer Ministry:

I strongly object to your mischaracterization that inFormer Ministry serves
private interests and includes only relatives and has insufficient
"nonrelated members of the community." This is completely incorrect. We
serve those affected by cults and we serve the community by dealing with
their rehabilitation, and raising public awareness about the problem of
cultic fanaticism. In addition, half of the four initial board members are
from the community, and bear no relation to the others nor to each other.

With regard to our plans of extending the board, of course, once their legal
status has been determined, a full board will be installed, consisting of
academics, mental health professionals, attorneys, former members of cults,
and other interested parties.

We will not name those individuals at this point because we cannot in good
conscience invite them to participate in an activity which may very well
(especially considering your response to my application) be involved in a
dispute with the IRS for the next 10 years. Hence we await proper legal
recognition before assembling a proper and permanent board of directors

IRS:

Section 1.501(c)3 1(d) (II) of the internal tax regulations states that any
organization which serves private interests rather than public purposes does
not qualify for exam status. To ensure your organization will serve public
interest, you may wish to modify your board to place control in the hands of
unrelated individuals selected from the community you will serve.

inFormer Ministry:

Control of the board IS in the hands of unrelated individuals from the
community which the Ministry serves. The current board was only assembled
for the purpose of gaining their legal status to which the Ministry is
entitled, and will be expanded along proper guidelines once the legal entity
is fully established and recognized by federal authorities. Also, a proper
board of directors will not be assembled until after the Ministry can
provide a legal indemnification for the individual board members. This
cannot happen without funds. Proper funding cannot be solicited without the
correct legal recognition.

IRS:

9A. Account for any salaries or any other compensation paid, or to be paid,
by your organization with a description of the duties and responsibilities
of each recipient.

inFormer Ministry:

No employees exist. There are only volunteers. Volunteers are not
compensated at this time and no plans have been made to compensate them in
the future. Clergy may at some point be granted parsonage allowance in
accordance with IRC section 107, if such an expense is reasonable.

IRS:

Include qualifications required for the position, hours worked per week in
performance of duties, rate of pay per week, and bassist used to arrive at
that amount.

inFormer Ministry:

Does not apply.

IRS:

D. Identify any officer, director, trustee or members of their families who
will receive any compensation as an employee, consultant, or contract worker
and include in the above paragraph.

inFormer Ministry:

At this point no one has, and there is no indication that anyone will
receive compensation, other than parsonage allowance, in accordance with IRC
section 107.

IRS

10. The publication and distribution of literature/tapes is an important
method of disseminating educational materials. However where the
dissemination of published materials has the characteristics of a trade or
business, it is not in furtherance of an exempt purpose. For example, a
nonprofit corporation that publishes a foreign language magazine on a
subscription basis to ordinary commercial publishing practices, was held to
be engaged in a trade or business rather than an educational activity.

Income tax regulations one point 501(c)(3) provide that terms of "education"
includes the instruction of the public on subjects useful to the individual
and beneficial to the community. The publication of printed material may be
educational if:

A. The content of the publication is educational,
B. The preparation of the material follows methods are generally accepted
as "educational" in character,
C. the distribution of materials as necessary or invaluable in achieving
the organization's educational and scientific purposes and
D. the manner in which the distribution is accomplished is distinguishable
from ordinary commercial practices.

(see revenue ruling 67-4, 1967-1 C.B. 121 attached)

Do you plan to engage in publishing activities (printing, publication, or
distribution or your own material, or that printed or published by others
and distributed by you, including the printed word, and audio/video
materials).

inFormer Ministry:

Yes.

IRS:

A. Explain fully the nature of the operations, including whether sales are
or will be made to the general public, that kind of materials involved, and
how such activities are related to your stated purposes.

inFormer Ministry:

Such operations are currently only in existence to a limited degree. We
have supplied documents and videotapes to a number of news-gathering
organizations at no charge. The daily publication of the "inFormer
Ministry" postings and messages to the Internet is performed at no charge.
Anyone in the world has access to the thousands of tracts (sic) and essays
that we have published in this manner for the past four years. The Ministry
has supplied countless written tracts and accounts to the Internet which
have been republished on hundreds of websites all over the world. A quick
Internet search using the search term "inFormer" will reveal the extent of
free distribution of our content and how our activities impact our stated
purpose.

The Ministry's materials have been and will, in general, continue to be
distributed at no cost. An unspecified donation, to defray the cost of
production and distribution, could possibly be suggested. But no one in
need will be turned away empty-handed for lack of funds.

IRS:

B. State whether your organization has materials of its own. If so, list
several of the chief works giving the author and title.

inFormer Ministry:

Yes. The Ministry holds rights in the collection of the "Informer
Newsletter" (various authors), to the newsletters themselves in some rates
in "The Collected Writings of Rev. Dennis Erlich."

IRS:

C. Explain how and by whom you're publishing projects are selected. What
are the criteria used for making selections?

inFormer Ministry:

At this point the only publication projects being done are authored by Rev.
Erlich and consist of articles in daily inspirational messages, of interest
to those people whose lives have been impacted by cults. These are
published free of charge, by the Ministry, to the Internet. Also under way
are musical compositions written and being produced by the Ministry to
further the Ministry's purpose of raising public awareness about the
problems relating to cults and cultic fanaticism. Selection of projects is
done by those volunteers who will participate in finally be the board.

All works published by or distributed by the Ministry will deal with this
public awareness about the impact of cults on individuals and society,
providing causes in history to those adversely affected by cults working to
raise consciousness about the problems relating to cultic fanaticism, and
attempting to pose solutions to these questions. The selection process
handling what is published, recorded, produced and/or distributed by the
Ministry is, and will continue to be, based on exactly those criteria.

IRS:

D. State how you're publishing activities are distinguishable from those of
for-profit commercial corporations.

inFormer Ministry:

The nature of the material will be limited as above and we will keep
distribution free to those in need and suggest donation to those who might
be able to contribute.

IRS:

E. State whether your literature is distributed free of charge.

inFormer Ministry:

It is.

IRS:

If not what is the basis used in determining the sales price?

inFormer Ministry

If, at some point, materials are sold on a fixed-price rather than given
away freely based on need with a suggested open (not mandatory) donation,
the sales price should not exceed the cost of the item in the Ministry, plus
5%.

IRS:

F. Describe your method of distributing your materials.

inFormer Ministry:

Distribution up to this point has been limited to direct publishing on the
Internet, Ministry material republished on websites, word-of-mouth requests
for informational materials or documents, mailing lists, and personal
hand-outs.

All distribution rights are held and/or granted, or not, by the various
authors of the works distributed.

G. Indicate whether your materials will be copyrighted.

inFormer Ministry:

By Federal statute, materials are copyrighted as soon as they are placed in
a fixed medium. So yes, the Ministry's materials (that is works created
specifically for the Ministry, such as this letter) are most assuredly
copyrighted by the Ministry. Other works the Ministry may publish are
copyrighted by their respective authors.

IRS:

If so, in whose name will the copyrights be held?

inFormer Ministry:

Works are automatically copyrighted by the author as soon as they are placed
in a fixed medium. The author, of course, can transfer rights to another
entity. If I understand the law correctly, no rights to any author's works
are considered transferred to the Ministry unless explicitly stated by the
author.

IRS:

11. Provide specific detail of the counseling activities of the
organization.

inFormer Ministry:

Over the past 15 years I have counseled thousands of people on the question
of cults and mind control. Beyond that I will say that the nature of those
consultations have either been in public, on the Internet, or are subject to
priest/penitent privilege. If you would care to challenge the existence of
such counseling, and will provide me with an e-mail address to which
attestations could be forwarded, I'm fairly sure I could provide you with a
number of people's declarations that my ministrations have given them useful
counsel, and was free of charge to those of me.

IRS:

where are the counseling services provided?

inFormer Ministry:

These free services were provided in my home, on the Internet, in other
people's homes, at meetings of other groups I attended, on the street, and
to the media.

IRS:

Provide details of the sliding fee for the counseling charges.

inFormer Ministry:

Such services have been given free of charge up to this point. Perhaps in
the future services will be given on some other basis than me. But at this
time no plans exist other than to suggest (though not required) a
nonspecific donation. Under the current plan, no one will be refused
assistance or counseling because of inability to donate.

Thank you for your consideration,
signature of Rev. Dennis Erlich
Rev. Dennis L. Erlich
Executive Director,
inFormer Ministry

-
Note on this document: This document was provided in accordance to the law
by the Exempt Organizations Division Determinations of the IRS, by manager
Cindy Thomas, Cincinnati, OH office 45201.

This document, along with others, was requested from inFormer Ministry of
Palms Springs, CA but the legally required disclosure of the documents
requested, was denied, contrary to United States Law.

Anonymous

unread,
Feb 12, 2010, 9:07:33 PM2/12/10
to
Penalties

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p557/ch02.html

Penalties for failure to file. Generally, an exempt organization that
fails to file a required return must pay a penalty of $20 a day for each day
the failure continues. The same penalty will apply if the organization does
not give all the information required on the return or does not give the
correct information.

Maximum penalty. The maximum penalty for any one return is the smaller of
$10,000 or 5% of the organization's gross receipts for the year.

Organization with gross receipts over $1 million. For an organization that
has gross receipts of over $1 million for the year, the penalty is $100 a
day up to a maximum of $50,000.

Managers. If the organization is subject to this penalty, the IRS may
specify a date by which the return or correct information must be supplied
by the organization. Failure to comply with this demand will result in a
penalty imposed upon the manager of the organization, or upon any other
person responsible for filing a correct return. The penalty is $10 a day for
each day that a return is not filed after the period given for filing. The
maximum penalty imposed on all persons with respect to any one return is
$5,000.

"Anonymous" <noa...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:hl50e3$cip$2...@news.eternal-september.org...

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 13, 2010, 7:54:33 AM2/13/10
to

woo hoo. A big thank you to whoever did this work!

P.S. I've done this type of thing/work myself and am well aware of
the time and effort required. Thanks again!

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:48:45 -0600, "Anonymous" <noa...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

Monica Pignotti

unread,
Feb 13, 2010, 8:06:13 AM2/13/10
to
On Feb 13, 7:54 am, Ted Mayett
> ...
>
> read more »

Yes, thank you to whoever did this. Very inFormative.

Monica

Out_Of_The_Dark

unread,
Feb 13, 2010, 10:32:10 PM2/13/10
to
On Feb 13, 7:54 am, Ted Mayett
<ars.to.tedmay...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, very informative. Scarey, too.

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 14, 2010, 8:02:54 AM2/14/10
to

Reading this something comes to mind. OMG.

Reading the illogic and terrible grammar and many errors in this
document, something comes to mind.

Hubbard himself hand picked Erlich for cramming officer.
OMG, does this mean that Erlich was the pick of the litter? OMG.


Monica Pignotti

unread,
Feb 14, 2010, 8:55:42 AM2/14/10
to
On Feb 14, 8:02 am, Ted Mayett

Re being hand picked by Hubbard, I'm not sure that is the case. Erlich
didn't come to Flag until after the move to the Ft. Harrison on
Florida, after Hubbard had already taken off for parts unknown. He was
never on the Apollo with Hubbard or AFAIK, anywhere else with him.
It's still possible he could have, but I hadn't heard that before. As
for being the pick of the litter, that I would agree with -- he was
the natural perfect fit for a tough, unreasonable cramming officer.
Some people were just natural fits for the Sea Org and IMHO, he was
one of them. Then there were really nice people like Hana Whitfield
who didn't fit the type at all and was nice, even in the SO, so not
all were natural fits, but D certainly was.

Monica

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 15, 2010, 7:57:03 AM2/15/10
to

Oh my, I thought Erlich himself said that he had been hand picked by
Hubbard. Still, after getting so witty I got to thinking that
creativity would not have been a requirement for something like a
chief cramming officer. IOW, all Dennis ever did is exactly what he
was told to do, he thought nothing, added nothing, created nothing.
He was a good soldier, not a General or an Officer, or even a Sargent.
He was only a good foot soldier that followed orders promptly and
properly. And like you point out, he was tough and unreasonable. A
perfect fit for the sea org. At least the sea org of that era.


Monica Pignotti

unread,
Feb 15, 2010, 8:37:17 AM2/15/10
to
On Feb 15, 7:57 am, Ted Mayett

It's possible he was, although it would have been unusual for people
who came after Hubbard went into hiding. He still could have been
giving orders from his hiding place, though and maybe someone
recommended him to LRH. That's what happened to me with MSH. When I
was at AOLA, someone else in the GO who I had audited, recommended to
her that I would be a good person to come to the Apollo and she then
ordered it even though at the time, she had never met me.

And yes, Cramming Officer was sort of a middle-management position and
people often did get placed on posts that were a perfect fit for their
personalities. Not always, but often it worked out that way.

Monica

Anonymous

unread,
Feb 15, 2010, 11:30:59 AM2/15/10
to

http://cgi.amazing.com/scientology/death-of-quentin.html

Here is what Erlich said:

Apparently LRH didn't think much of him either, because two months after
I was on post as Intern Cramming Officer, Hubbard busted Jeff and posted
me in his place as Chief Cramming Officer, Flag. I was totally
unprepared for what was to follow. I had to cram every auditor in the
HGC including the Class XIIs. Since I was only a class IV, I had to
quickly study and check out on all of the material up through Class XII.
I had a person posted as my junior to handle the interns, who was even
greener than I. What a responsibility! I was now the most senior
Cramming Officer in all of Scientology. It was just what I had wanted . . .

Dennis L Erlich

unread,
Feb 15, 2010, 11:37:23 AM2/15/10
to
Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Cramming Officer was sort of a middle-management position

BS. Sr Cramming Officer Flag was a ~technical~ post and had nothing
to do with management. I only dealt with auditors, interns, C/S's and
students.

Shows how little she knows about the cult and how easily she pulls her
lies outta her *hole.

D

----------------

"At this point, if we could go back in time and get rid of the internet
altogether, I would be all for it." - Professor Monica Pignotti (Nov 2009)

Monica Pignotti

unread,
Feb 15, 2010, 12:11:28 PM2/15/10
to
On Feb 15, 11:37 am, Dennis L Erlich <infor...@informer.org> wrote:

> Monica Pignotti <pigno...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >Cramming Officer was sort of a middle-management position
>
> BS.  Sr Cramming Officer Flag was a ~technical~ post and had nothing
> to do with management.  I only dealt with auditors, interns, C/S's and
> students.
>
> Shows how little she knows about the cult and how easily she pulls her
> lies outta her *hole.
>
> D

Duh. I know it was a "technical" post. I was using the term
"management" in the looser sense, meaning that the cramming officer
"managed" auditors, interns, CSes, etc. I will not get into a semantic
quibble, so okay, I will change it to mid-level post if he wants to
nit pick. My point is that it wasn't a top level position on the org
board.

Monica

Monica Pignotti

unread,
Feb 15, 2010, 12:15:33 PM2/15/10
to

The thing is, LRH had a habit of thinking very highly of people one
day and then busting them the next. May cult experts have noted that
cult leadership keeps its members off balance, and that was a way of
keeping people off balance, never knowing when the axe might fall. A
person could have an LRH commendation one day, as I did, and wind up
in the RPF soon after, as I did. This was very common. So I don't
think we can conclude that LRH thought any less of Jeff Walker than
any of the hundreds of others he commended and then busted. The list
is very, very long, including his own son.

Monica

Dennis L Erlich

unread,
Feb 15, 2010, 3:15:05 PM2/15/10
to
Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>The thing is, LRH had a habit of thinking very highly of people one
>day and then busting them the next.

It was part of the whole management culture.

>May cult experts have noted that
>cult leadership keeps its members off balance, and that was a way of
>keeping people off balance, never knowing when the axe might fall.

It was also common in the cult for him to pit one close friend against
another, assigning one as Chairman of the Committee of Evidence where
the other is the defendant.

>A
>person could have an LRH commendation one day, as I did, and wind up
>in the RPF soon after, as I did. This was very common.

One time when Elrong reprieved me from the RPF I was sent 2 telexes
from him. One said, "You've done great work in the past. I don't
believe what I've been told about you. Let the justice system sort it
out. Good luck, Ron." Later that same day, sitting at my desk in the
corner of the 10th Floor Balcony, I received another telex in error.
It was addressed to the Elrong Comm. It said "This Erlich guy is a
troublemaker. Get the Comm Ev done quick! - LRH"

>So I don't
>think we can conclude that LRH thought any less of Jeff Walker than
>any of the hundreds of others he commended and then busted. The list
>is very, very long, including his own son.

No, after that bust Jeff was relegated to auditing NOTs and C/Sing
under Cheryl Licciardi. He finally graduated up to Sr C/S Flag, but
only after Elrong was noncom pus mentis.

<BTW, it was Walker with the Sliemball Mithoff, who came into my
Cramming Room at the end, after I refused the Mayo's illegal order to
leave post, which I refused and demanded a Comm Ev. They tried to
reason with me. I finally asked what would happen if I still refused.
Jeff said in his meanest voice, "We'll go get 3 or 4 more guys, beat
the shit out of you and drag you off post." I said, "Gee, guys why
didn't you say so in the first place? Of course I'll leave." I
packed up my belongings and waited 3 more weeks for my Comm Ev. No
one wanted to be on it.

Finally Sr C/S MAA, Brian Something, calls me in to chat. Again
trying to reason with me to accept the order. Finally he says, "Well
you know Dennis, if you don't accept the order and get on your new
post of NOTs auditor, you'll be assigned to the RPF." I replied,
flippantly "You can send me, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna go." He
said,"Then I'll have to declare you, and I don't want to do that." My
reply, "You gots to do what you gotta do and I gots do what I gotta
do.">

D

----------------

"At this point, if we could go back in time and get rid of the internet

altogether, I would be all for it." - Monica Pignotti (Nov 2009)

Monica Pignotti

unread,
Feb 15, 2010, 4:39:16 PM2/15/10
to
On Feb 15, 3:15 pm, Dennis L Erlich <infor...@informer.org> wrote:
Sounds like Brian Livingston. At one time he was Intern Supervisor at
the Ft. Harrison and threatened to send me back to my org in a hearse!

Monica

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 16, 2010, 7:56:30 AM2/16/10
to
>IRS:
>
>H. ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of study.
>
>inFormer Ministry:
>
>At some point a plan to select, train and ordain other ministers could
>possibly be instituted, yes. However, I, as the sole minister of the
>church, was ordained after a prescribed course of study.

The prescribed course of study was the Minister Course in 1969 in
scientology. The Hubbard Tech made Dennis a Reverend and an Ordained
Minister.

>IRS:
>
>D. A recognized creed and form of worship.
>
>inFormer Ministry:
>

>Our forms of worship are individual prayer giving aid and comfort to those
>in need or in pain, giving thanks for the blessings God has bestowed upon
>us, and working to establish a direct personal relationship with the Creator
>by seeking Him through prayer, hopefully coming to know Him and attempting
>in our lives to do His will.

It would seem as though Dennis were doing just this, praying to God,
giving thanks to God, and accepting blessings from God while he was a
Scientology Reverend, because...

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 16, 2010, 10:01:18 AM2/16/10
to
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:30:59 -0600, Anonymous <nob...@mixmaster.it>
wrote:

"All staff and students were told exactly what lie to tell any
Clearwater residents who asked about our presence: we were all
religious students on retreat at the new United Churches facility in
the Fort Harrison Hotel."

OK then, another piece falls into place possibly. Dennis has told us
that he is not a scientology reverend. He calls himself a Reverend
though. I think he is doing another half-truth and considers himself
a United Churches Reverend.

We know the man is a liar, he told us he put up his irs paperwork on
his website. And that was only partially true. We have the evidence
right here to view.

Unimportant though it be, I wonder if he considers himself a Church of
Scientology Reverend. Or a United Churches Reverend.

He calls himself a Reverend. Is there anyone with skill enough to
find out what Church he claims for this title?


This is like a dream come true for me. I'm not religious. Save that
if there is a God then either all God's children go to Heaven. Or
more accurately, if there is a God then all of us are God. Every
blade of grass, star in the sky, stone on the ground. Every insect,
bird, fish or animal that walks or crawls is God. I've no problem
with those that need to genuflect, pray with rolled eyes or say 'Thank
You Jesus' when it is themselves they should be thanking.

But gutter-mouthed lying and deceiving "Reverends" have always irked
me. And IRL there is nothing to be done. They walk away from you if
you push too deeply. Or drown you out with loud voices. But here on
the magic of usenet you can probe for the truth of these types of
people. These wannabe reverends. They can shout and curse, but they
have no volume. Their hands might start to tremble and their eyes
start to cross, but you are not standing right next to it, so it is no
problem. Here there is only questions and answers, only statements to
be made.

Why does this man Dennis Erlich insist that the Ordination received
from scientology has any meaning? In his heart, and in his mind, he
knows the title is bogus. He knows well and good Hubbard's
contemptible attitude towards religion in general. He knows the
'reverend' thing was only an act for wogs and the irs.

And I answer thusly: He tells himself that he was a Reverend for that
United Churches. That he is so tainted, so warped, and such a liar,
that he even lies to himself.

Some of us know chronic liars in real life, or we have met them and
dealt with them to some degree. People who lie about the dumbest of
things, they just lie, that is the way they are.

But deceitful gutter-mouthed "reverends" have *always* fascinated me.
What makes them tick? Why do they do as they do?

Why does Erlich lie and say "Public inspection disclosure documens now
"widely available."" Why does he not say honestly that these are only
*some* of those documents? What makes a man act deceitfully like
this? And why is it that gutter-mouthed reverends usually act in this
fashion?

And beyond being vulgar and deceitful they invoke the name of God. "A
mission for God" "doing the work of God", etc. What drives these
people?

Well, I'm having fun here, it is a dream come true. I can peck away
at a bona fide slimeball, and my voice cannot be drowned out.

BTW, this document was not 'wrongly withheld from public disclosure."
Erlich is under no requirement to web any of this stuff whatsoever.
He is also under no requirement to be honest either here or on his
Ministry webpage. He can lie using half truths as much as he would
like, it is not against the law what he is doing.

I think perhaps this type of person here, this Erlich, might be
truthful to people deserving of the truth. This would not be any of
us who read this NG. And it would not be anybody that would read his
webpages. I'm guessing he has only to be truthful to God. That might
well be his thought processes, that he is truthful to God.

But on this ng Erlich you are a liar. You dwell in half truths, which
basically are lies.

Erlich webs:
Public inspection disclosure documens now "widely available."
ahh gee Dennis, what a bummer, you got caught lying, bah.
And again it is all word play, a partial truth, not an outright lie.
If "we" are stupid enough to think you actually webbed everything,
well that is our stupidity isn't it? These days now Dennis, I'm
wondering if you ever told the full truth about anything at all.

Public inspection disclosure documens now "widely available."
You never do claim it is all the documents. You sure are one slippery
specimen Dennis, quite clever. Well you fooled some of us again, you
fooled me anyway. I thought you were actually being honest on your
Ministry web page regarding these IRS forms. But you fooled me, you
got me, good work. And if I'm stupid enough to think you are honest,
well the fault is mine of course. I suppose I've given you something
to laugh about, something to make you feel grand.

There is no limit to the depths of human stupidity, is there Dennis?
An idiot like me making an assumption that you actually gave full
disclosure of your public documents. How do you handle this I wonder,
how do you dwell among stupidity like mine I would ask? It doesn't
say *all* the documents, and I was just too stupid to notice that.
Dumb enough to actually think they were all the documents. So
imbecilic as to think you were giving full disclosure.

I'd imagine you bear many crosses in life Dennis, and a fool like me
is nothing special, an imbecile like myself. But I'm getting stronger
Dennis, I'm getting smarter. You are a good teacher.

And please don't just dismiss me with an airy wave of a hand and a few
choice curse words. I tell you this, Lesson Learned. Thank you for
this lesson, and I assure you Dennis, Lesson Learned. Thank you for
just another lesson. OK?

P.S. I'm not the only one who thought Dennis gave full disclosure on
his InFormer Ministry web page. bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
you were fooled also, bwaaaaaaaaaa :-))

Yeah buddy, way to go Erlich, you got a few of us with this one.


Jerola

unread,
Feb 16, 2010, 12:50:09 PM2/16/10
to

"Ted Mayett" <ars.to.t...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:m66ln5hibgc9cf6ni...@4ax.com...


I have been following this newsgroup quietly for quite a few months. I
found it by doing a Google search on my name.

This posting about a guy who claims to be a reformer minister of the Church
of Scientology is chilling to me specifically because of the things you talk
about, the street language, the profanities that he uses. In another post
today Mr. Erlich suggests that he has a shotgun at his church in case some
critic on this newsgroup should happen by.

It is utterly amazing to me how the IRS could award church status and tax
exemption to such a man and an organization that he founded. Thank you for
your insightful analysis, Ted.

Jerola

henri

unread,
Feb 16, 2010, 1:11:11 PM2/16/10
to
<jerry....@live.com> wrote:

Cool story bro.

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 19, 2010, 7:09:09 AM2/19/10
to
On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:50:09 -0600, "Jerola" <jerry....@live.com>
wrote:


>I have been following this newsgroup quietly for quite a few months. I
>found it by doing a Google search on my name.
>
>This posting about a guy who claims to be a reformer minister of the Church
>of Scientology is chilling to me specifically because of the things you talk
>about, the street language, the profanities that he uses. In another post
>today Mr. Erlich suggests that he has a shotgun at his church in case some
>critic on this newsgroup should happen by.
>

Hah! Hadn't thought of it that way, that he keeps a shotgun inside
the door of his Church. Maybe it makes you wonder what he keeps in
his Church closets.

>It is utterly amazing to me how the IRS could award church status and tax
>exemption to such a man and an organization that he founded. Thank you for
>your insightful analysis, Ted.
>
>Jerola

I would suggest there would be errors to my insights, but that in the
books of psychiatry his personality is rather well defined.

Remember now, it is only recently we have learned that he was an
Ordained Minister, a Reverend, for the time he spent in scientology.
He had us believing he was something called a Chief Cramming Officer
while a member. And now it turns out that he was a Minister for all
those years. And became a Reverend at a time when people became
Reverends for display purposes. But not Erlich, he became a Reverend
because God wanted him to be a Reverend and minister to people.

Anyway, this is new news, this Reverend thing. He has always called
himself, right from the beginning, The Rev. Dennis Erlich. But nobody
really paid attention to that title, nobody really questioned the
title until rather recently.

The guy is an interesting study. A man of God that sees assholes on
every horizon he gazes upon. Lying sacks of shit surround this man
and cocksuckers question his motives. An interesting study.

---
The Rev. Dennis Erlich speaks:

Jerola

unread,
Feb 19, 2010, 5:22:34 PM2/19/10
to

"Ted Mayett" <ars.to.t...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote in message

news:7iusn59o817iue9i6...@4ax.com...

If somebody were to say that he hears voices, and talks with somebody that
tells him to do things, that
nobody else can see or hear, that person might be considered to be a
schizophrenic, and put on anti-psychosis medication.

However when somebody claims religiosity and says he talks to somebody, and
receives instructions to do things from somebody, that nobody else can see
or hear -- but that entity is called "God," as the holy one would have us
believe -- then the IRS will give that guy church status, and a tax
exemption.

It seems that somehow we are not allowed to call a spade a spade; that we
must accept a person's mental illness as it relates to a religious authority
to the detriment of the general society's well-being. But what also goes
along with the Establishment Clause of the United States Constitution, is
the citizens freedom to disrespect religion as claimed by the
self-proclaimed holy ones, and call them charlatans, as we see them, when we
see them.

With respect to Mr. Erlich, that time is now.

Jerola

Out_Of_The_Dark

unread,
Feb 20, 2010, 8:57:04 AM2/20/10
to Ted Mayett
On Feb 16, 10:01 am, Ted Mayett

I think the fundamental issue here is that one small lie, in an
attempt to avert problems or unpleasantries,resulted in a succession
of lies. The snowball effect is of an unrighteous man pretending to be
a minister of God of a ministry that existed or evolved as he claimed
to the IRS. So, what was the purpose of all this?

Well, Dennis may well have started this whole non-profit ministry to
avoid the potential of having his income attached by the cult because
of the lawsuit and at the same time finding a loophole to avoid having
to pay personal income pay taxes on the income he received from the
parade business arrangements he had going on, which he calls
ministerial 'volunteer' activities. Notice the use of the CoS version
of donations being voluntary and exchange:
"exchange for ministries volunteer services provided to the city of
Los Angeles"

"IRS:
Two. Provide a schedule for the $3000 reported on line 9 of page 8.
The
schedule must provide specific details of the merchandise sold.

inFormer Ministry:

Line 9 page 8 requests not only gross receipts from merchandise sold,
but
also services. The $3000 reflected on the application was in exchange
for
the ministries volunteer services provided to the city of Los Angeles
in the
production of the Mayor's Volunteer Festival on April 18, 1998. A
copy of
the invoices to the city of Los Angeles for services is attached
hereto.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dennis Erlich
Scientology defendant Dennis Erlich posted some developments in his
life as he continues to fight his court cases.
"I am working now for (Chicago) Tribune, Inc., owner of KTLA Channel 5
in LA as Assistant to the Producer of the Hollywood Christmas and Rose
Parade telecasts.

"Tribune has thrown up a web site (their first?) to promote the
parade. The URL is - http://www.ktla.com/christmas

"You will note that our favorite internet spammer/cancellers are
parading their wares before the public using the name 'Concerned
Businessmen's Association', and pumping the Way to Happiness booklet.
Their 'float' is well back, toward the end of the parade, for anyone
who will be able to tune in.

"Monday I will have to be in front of yet another new San Diego County
Family Law Court judge and answer to the motion to revoke my 40 days
in jail suspended sentence for paying my child support later than the
due date.

"The house I am living in has been sold and I will need to move before
Christmas. I do not know where."

Message-ID: <329dfce...@204.245.3.50>
http://www.xenu.net/archive/WIR/wir1-32.html#4

Dennis is no more a man of God than Hubbard was, but at least Hubbard
didn't claim to be doing what he was doing for God's sake.

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 21, 2010, 6:46:48 AM2/21/10
to
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:22:34 -0600, "Jerola" <jerry....@live.com>
wrote:


>> ---
>> The Rev. Dennis Erlich speaks:
>> I was ordained a minister in the Church of Scientology. I found God.
>> I accepted the task He assigned to me.
>

>If somebody were to say that he hears voices, and talks with somebody that
>tells him to do things, that
>nobody else can see or hear, that person might be considered to be a
>schizophrenic, and put on anti-psychosis medication.
>
>However when somebody claims religiosity and says he talks to somebody, and
>receives instructions to do things from somebody, that nobody else can see
>or hear -- but that entity is called "God," as the holy one would have us
>believe -- then the IRS will give that guy church status, and a tax
>exemption.
>
>It seems that somehow we are not allowed to call a spade a spade; that we
>must accept a person's mental illness as it relates to a religious authority
>to the detriment of the general society's well-being. But what also goes
>along with the Establishment Clause of the United States Constitution, is
>the citizens freedom to disrespect religion as claimed by the
>self-proclaimed holy ones, and call them charlatans, as we see them, when we
>see them.
>
>With respect to Mr. Erlich, that time is now.
>
>Jerola

Nicely put.

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 21, 2010, 7:05:57 AM2/21/10
to
On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 05:57:04 -0800 (PST), Out_Of_The_Dark
<formerl...@yahoo.com> wrote:


>I think the fundamental issue here is that one small lie, in an
>attempt to avert problems or unpleasantries,resulted in a succession
>of lies. The snowball effect is of an unrighteous man pretending to be
>a minister of God of a ministry that existed or evolved as he claimed
>to the IRS. So, what was the purpose of all this?
>

His house is built on lies, and he cannot even keep the lies
consistent anymore.

>Well, Dennis may well have started this whole non-profit ministry to
>avoid the potential of having his income attached by the cult because
>of the lawsuit and at the same time finding a loophole to avoid having
>to pay personal income pay taxes on the income he received from the
>parade business arrangements he had going on, which he calls
>ministerial 'volunteer' activities. Notice the use of the CoS version
>of donations being voluntary and exchange:
>"exchange for ministries volunteer services provided to the city of
>Los Angeles"
>

Hah. I hadn't noticed that, the use of the word 'exchange'.

Sig material!


---
The Rev. Dennis Erlich speaks:

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 21, 2010, 9:16:25 AM2/21/10
to

>inFormer Ministry:

>To raise awareness about the dangers of cults, the Ministry helped organize
>and participate in two pickets commemorating the death of a young lady at
>the hands of a cult; one day in December 1997 and one in March of 1998.
>

March of 1998. This was a picket held in LA. I was there myself,
Erlich was there also. I never saw him carrying a picket sign, but
rather just standing around. And nobody ever told me that this was an
organized picket. So far as I knew it was an agreed upon time and
location to hold a picket.

December 1997 was the Clearwater picket. And Erlich was also in
attendance at the December 1996 Clearwater picket. Although he
doesn't say that his Ministry helped organize for 1996.

March 1998:
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/prla398a.htm
And December 1977:
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/prcw97a.htm
No picket reports by the Rev. Dennis Erlich. I'm not even sure there
were ever any pictures of him.

March 1998 was called 'The Birthday Picket'. I have webbed 14
'headers' for these Birthday Pickets that were held worldwide:
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/pkt98a.htm
These were the cities that did a birthday picket March 1998:
Poole, Boston, DC, Helsinki, Melbourne, Amsterdam
Atlanta, Puerto Rico, Vancouver, Seattle, Sacramento
Los Angeles, Hemet, Toronto.

So, the Rev. tells the IRS:


> the Ministry helped organize
>and participate in two pickets commemorating the death of a young lady at
>the hands of a cult; one day in December 1997 and one in March of 1998.

Well only one of these pickets had to do with Lisa McPherson.
However, no doubt but that a 'Lisa' picket sign or two was in
attendance here and there. Which gives our Reverend just another
acceptable truth to tell to the IRS.

But we are talking of money here, money to be saved when filing taxes.
And for this reason our Reverend twists the facts. Again.

At that time in history, 1997 and 1998, I personally was doing
everything possible to find and web every single picket report in the
world. And I tell you, I think I know these pickets of these years
better than anybody, because I fussed over them with such intensity
for so long.

And right now, right here and now, is the very first time ever I have
heard of any picket whatsoever, in any location or at any time, that
had any endorsement or connection to this InFormer Ministry.

Erlich yes, Erlich certainly did attend pickets. But never, ever
until reading his IRS paperwork now have I come across any mention of
this Ministry of his having had anything at all to do with a picket.

If I missed this, I apologize. For when I was doing this 'pickets
pages' project I allowed myself no politics whatsoever, none. What
was posted was posted, what was said was said. My only "job" was to
place the items in one location so they could be hopefully preserved
forever.

And actually, duh, I just checked my entire web page, which includes
'Pickets' for this: 'InFormer Ministry'. And I get one hit, and one
hit only. And it has nothing to do with pickets whatsoever.

IOW, not Erlich, not anybody has at any time made any connection
between pickets and this InFormer Ministry. Never, until this IRS
form, has there been any connection between this ministry and pickets.

This might well be an uncomfortable truth for some of you, but I'm
sorry, your saint, the Rev. Dennis Erlich lies, he tells lies.

However, maybe I just missed this, but I don't think so.

--------------------------
(snip)
Super Power is really an auditing rundown which was known as the
Humongous Rundown during its pilot.
(snip)
From: inF...@primenet.com (Rev. Dennis L Erlich)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Clear Air next?
Date: 7 Apr 1996 09:57:01 -0700
Organization: inFormer Ministry
http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/spb2.htm
-------------------------

---
The Rev. Dennis Erlich speaks:

Jerola

unread,
Feb 21, 2010, 12:15:01 PM2/21/10
to

"Ted Mayett" <ars.to.t...@XXmmXXspamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:54c2o5p631ue7sanq...@4ax.com...

Ironically, in a post made yesterday in another thread of this newsgroup,
Rev. Erlich publicizes facts that should have been kept private according to
the priest-penitent fiduciary responsibility of a minister. He mentions her
by name, and she is known by others who participate in this newsgroup.


Message-ID:<4980o5ld96d5i8s8l...@4ax.com>

The Rev. said:

"There were a few contradictory things about her words and behaviors.
But who doesn't have such contradictions? We lost touch after she
went to LMT."

From what I've seen watching this newsgroup is that time and time again Mr.
Erlich projects onto others what are perhaps his own faults, and invades
peoples privacy for his own benefit.

Jerola

Zinj

unread,
Feb 21, 2010, 12:29:29 PM2/21/10
to

> the priest-penitent fiduciary responsibility of a minister.

I'd suggest that you find a better crack supplier.

Zinj

Jerola

unread,
Feb 21, 2010, 12:55:23 PM2/21/10
to
"Zinj" <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b81...@news2.lightlink.com...

>
>> the priest-penitent fiduciary responsibility of a minister.
>
> I'd suggest that you find a better crack supplier.
>
> Zinj

I don't know how to reply to this at the gutter level it was intended, nor
do I know what was meant. Let me respond with this.

The United States Supreme Court has observed that "the priest--penitent
privilege recognizes the human need to disclose to a spiritual counselor, in
total and absolute confidence, what are believed to be flawed acts or
thoughts and to receive priestly consolation and guidance in return." A
federal appeals court judge stated the justification for the privilege as
follows:

Sound policy-reason and experience-concedes to religious liberty a rule
of evidence that a clergyman shall not disclose in a trial the secrets of a
penitent's confidential confession to him, at least absent the penitent's
consent. Knowledge so acquired in the performance of a spiritual function .
. . is not to be transformed into evidence to be given to the whole world. .
. . The benefit of preserving these confidences inviolate overbalances the
possible benefit of permitting litigation to prosper at the expense of the
tranquility of the home, the integrity of the professional relationship, and
the spiritual rehabilitation of a penitent. The rules of evidence have
always been concerned not only with truth but with the manner of its
ascertainment.

http://www.churchlawtoday.com/private/library/pcl/p03g.htm

The public outing of the penitent by this Scientology "reformer", was
unethical in the least.

Jerola

Anonymous

unread,
Feb 21, 2010, 3:29:56 PM2/21/10
to

If in the inFormer Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles for these
picketing events that it claims to have organized, then we are looking
at criminal fraud. Informer Ministry has invoiced the city of Los
Angeles for thousands of dollars for other events that it claimed to
have organized for the mayor's office.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zneznngdztt/inFormer_Ministry_complete_unabridged_IRS_1023_public_disclosure.pdf

I presume that information about these invoices and events as it relates
to the religious organization InFormer Ministry, can be obtained with a
freedom of information request from the mayor's office at the city of
Los Angeles. It would be interesting to know just how many events this
Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles, for.

>
> Well only one of these pickets had to do with Lisa McPherson.
> However, no doubt but that a 'Lisa' picket sign or two was in
> attendance here and there. Which gives our Reverend just another
> acceptable truth to tell to the IRS.
>
> But we are talking of money here, money to be saved when filing taxes.
> And for this reason our Reverend twists the facts. Again.
>
> At that time in history, 1997 and 1998, I personally was doing
> everything possible to find and web every single picket report in the
> world. And I tell you, I think I know these pickets of these years
> better than anybody, because I fussed over them with such intensity
> for so long.
>
> And right now, right here and now, is the very first time ever I have
> heard of any picket whatsoever, in any location or at any time, that
> had any endorsement or connection to this InFormer Ministry.
>
> Erlich yes, Erlich certainly did attend pickets. But never, ever
> until reading his IRS paperwork now have I come across any mention of
> this Ministry of his having had anything at all to do with a picket.

In the 1998 protest picket, Rev. Erlich arrived towards the end, at the
same time that television cameras from NBC arrived. They could have
arrived together.

-Anonymous, my good work

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 22, 2010, 7:04:14 AM2/22/10
to
On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:29:56 -0600, Anonymous <nob...@mixmaster.it>
wrote:


>
>In the 1998 protest picket, Rev. Erlich arrived towards the end, at the
>same time that television cameras from NBC arrived. They could have
>arrived together.

Well if you say so, personally I missed the tv-camera scene. They
were always where I wasn't it seemed.

So, did you give out a clue to your identity here? Or, as I suspect,
a smoke screen. You couldn't really know when the Rev. Erlich
arrived. And pickets were being held in multiple locations anyway.

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 22, 2010, 7:44:09 AM2/22/10
to
On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:29:56 -0600, Anonymous <nob...@mixmaster.it>
wrote:

>> So, the Rev. tells the IRS:
>>> the Ministry helped organize
>>> and participate in two pickets commemorating the death of a young lady at
>>> the hands of a cult; one day in December 1997 and one in March of 1998.
>
>If in the inFormer Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles for these
>picketing events that it claims to have organized, then we are looking
>at criminal fraud. Informer Ministry has invoiced the city of Los
>Angeles for thousands of dollars for other events that it claimed to
>have organized for the mayor's office.
>
>http://www.mediafire.com/file/zneznngdztt/inFormer_Ministry_complete_unabridged_IRS_1023_public_disclosure.pdf
>
>I presume that information about these invoices and events as it relates
>to the religious organization InFormer Ministry, can be obtained with a
>freedom of information request from the mayor's office at the city of
>Los Angeles. It would be interesting to know just how many events this
>Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles, for.
>

Oh my. I was figuring he was just lying to make himself important,
telling the IRS that he helped organize large pickets. I never
thought of a monetary angle to this.

Would he have been bold enough to invoice the city of LA for that
March 1998 Birthday Picket? Wow that would be bold.

However, let's concede that this is typical Erlich lies with a grain
of truth involved. His standard fare. With this assumption thoughts
of that Clearwater 1997 'Lisa' picket come to mind. Because of that
Press Conference in CW 1997, Erlich might have claimed expenses to his
Ministry. This is a distinct possibility.

He told the IRS that his InFormer Ministry helped organize these two
pickets. I really figured he was lying about this only to make
himself look large and grand. But there might well have been a
monetary angle to this affair. In which case he was lying (yet again)
for money.

But then Hubbard did say that the religion thing was only a matter for
accountants.

John Dorsay

unread,
Feb 22, 2010, 2:39:40 PM2/22/10
to
On 2/22/2010 7:04 AM, Ted Mayett wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:29:56 -0600, Anonymous <nob...@mixmaster.it>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>In the 1998 protest picket, Rev. Erlich arrived towards the end, at the
>>same time that television cameras from NBC arrived. They could have
>>arrived together.
>
> Well if you say so, personally I missed the tv-camera scene. They
> were always where I wasn't it seemed.
>
> So, did you give out a clue to your identity here?

Maybe here?

> Path: news.eternal-september.org!!feeder.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.erje.net!ecngs!feeder2.ecngs.de!newsfeed.freenet.ag!newsfeed.freenet.de!bolzen.all.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> From: Anonymous <nob...@mixmaster.it>
> Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Subject: Re: Anon got a face now! See the pics:
> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:08:30 -0600
> Lines: 39
> Message-ID: <7uehqj...@mid.individual.net>
> References: <a4457cdab82fd516...@msgid.frell.theremailer.net> <b3b78$4b81cfb7$adce4a94$30...@PRIMUS.CA> <4b81eb26$1...@news2.lightlink.com> <7de46$4b81fc41$adce4a94$20...@PRIMUS.CA> <4b82...@news2.lightlink.com> <c3764$4b820d3a$adce4a94$26...@PRIMUS.CA>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Trace: individual.net gUGWPbLw2YrZ2PSNNU7RIAcf6Y3ltQpiJlI3KaUDCnmtesTSxw
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:RbX747rUY3QJ69w64UfQs3Wed1w=
> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)
> In-Reply-To: <c3764$4b820d3a$adce4a94$26...@PRIMUS.CA>
> Xref: news.eternal-september.org alt.religion.scientology:61214

<snip>

> Tom Klemesrud


John

Anonymous

unread,
Feb 22, 2010, 2:59:18 PM2/22/10
to

How scholarly John! That proves it then, good enough for Rev. Erlich
and Ron Sharp. You nervous system must be conducting with lots of
electrons.

John Dorsay

John Dorsay

unread,
Feb 22, 2010, 6:21:54 PM2/22/10
to
On 2/22/2010 2:59 PM, Anonymous wrote:

<snip>

> How scholarly John! That proves it then, good enough for Rev. Erlich
> and Ron Sharp. You nervous system must be conducting with lots of
> electrons.

LOL! You're still butthurt because I made fun of your kook theory
that auditing is trickle-charged ect.

What was that, maybe two years ago now? About 700 bottles, give or
take?

> John Dorsay

Yeah, right. Whatever you say, Tom.


John

Jerola

unread,
Feb 22, 2010, 11:26:12 PM2/22/10
to
On 2/22/2010 6:44 AM, Ted Mayett wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:29:56 -0600, Anonymous<nob...@mixmaster.it>
> wrote:
>
>
>>> So, the Rev. tells the IRS:
>>>> the Ministry helped organize
>>>> and participate in two pickets commemorating the death of a young lady at
>>>> the hands of a cult; one day in December 1997 and one in March of 1998.
>>
>> If in the inFormer Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles for these
>> picketing events that it claims to have organized, then we are looking
>> at criminal fraud. Informer Ministry has invoiced the city of Los
>> Angeles for thousands of dollars for other events that it claimed to
>> have organized for the mayor's office.
>>
>> http://www.mediafire.com/file/zneznngdztt/inFormer_Ministry_complete_unabridged_IRS_1023_public_disclosure.pdf
>>
>> I presume that information about these invoices and events as it relates
>> to the religious organization InFormer Ministry, can be obtained with a
>> freedom of information request from the mayor's office at the city of
>> Los Angeles. It would be interesting to know just how many events this
>> Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles, for.

Here is what a website for the mayor of Los Angeles, Richard Riordan,
has said about his mayor's office involvement in a "volunteer Bureau":

http://www.cgu.edu/pages/1503.asp

Riordan�s focus on healthy neighborhoods led to community-based action
throughout the city. The mayor�s Volunteer Bureau saves city taxpayers
more than $30 million each year by mobilizing more than 30,000
community-spirited volunteers throughout the Los Angeles area. He also
created the Los Angeles Neighborhood Initiative, a community-based
effort designed to improve transit-dependent areas and established one
dozen Targeted Neighborhood Initiatives that give citizens a say over
community issues.

[...]

What is unclear about this program is how paying a tax-exempt ministry
thousands of dollars saved the taxpayers any money. I'm sure that Paul
Erlich, probably Dennis's brother, and a few ex-Scientologist friends of
Dennis, helped out. But, if this program was really supposed to promote
volunteerism, why does money change hands from the city government to a
religious organization? That just seems like money-laundering to me.

If you look at page 19 of the above mentioned PDF file, you will see an
invoice that Erlich sent to the city of Los Angeles.

The date of the invoice is April 10, 1998, A month before Erlich applied
for exemption. The invoice seems to be number 421. The invoices billed
to "the city of Los Angeles -- a volunteer Bureau City Hall -- East".
The description of the invoice reads "professional services of Rev.
Dennis L. Erlich and volunteer members of the inFormer Ministry. Phase
1 of volunteer festival contract: attended local planning meeting.
Visited site. Met with festival coordinator."

For that description the city of Los Angeles was build $1000. On the
invoice the project name is "volunteer festival...."

At the bottom of the invoice there is a notation "attention Roberta
So...[illegible]"

It does make one wonder to whom did the other 420 invoices go to? And,
why the invoice should go to the attention of a specific person? Could
this "Roberta" be a shill?

In the "Bill to" box of the invoice, there is not a proper address.
Usually these invoices are sent out in envelopes with a window, which
leads one to wonder if the invoice was hand delivered?

> Oh my. I was figuring he was just lying to make himself important,
> telling the IRS that he helped organize large pickets. I never
> thought of a monetary angle to this.
>
> Would he have been bold enough to invoice the city of LA for that
> March 1998 Birthday Picket? Wow that would be bold.

He was bold enough to use another person's property to misappropriate
intellectual property of the Church of Scientology -- long considered by
many, including Rev. Erlich -- to be dangerous to mess with. That's bold.

>
> However, let's concede that this is typical Erlich lies with a grain
> of truth involved. His standard fare. With this assumption thoughts
> of that Clearwater 1997 'Lisa' picket come to mind. Because of that
> Press Conference in CW 1997, Erlich might have claimed expenses to his
> Ministry. This is a distinct possibility.

To be sure. This man of God doesn't miss a turn.

> He told the IRS that his InFormer Ministry helped organize these two
> pickets. I really figured he was lying about this only to make
> himself look large and grand. But there might well have been a
> monetary angle to this affair. In which case he was lying (yet again)
> for money.

If there was an invoice for this event perhaps the description was,
"neighborhood birthday celebration."


> But then Hubbard did say that the religion thing was only a matter for
> accountants.
>
>
> ---
> The Rev. Dennis Erlich speaks:
> I was ordained a minister in the Church of Scientology. I found God.
> I accepted the task He assigned to me.
>
>

Jerola

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 23, 2010, 7:25:35 AM2/23/10
to
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:39:40 -0500, John Dorsay
<restim...@gmail.com> wrote:


>> So, did you give out a clue to your identity here?
>
>Maybe here?
>
>> Path:

<snip headers>

Count me out on this, I just do not have an interest in learning how
to post 'anon' or deciphering location and identity of 'anon' posts.

Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 23, 2010, 7:42:44 AM2/23/10
to
On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:26:12 -0600, Jerola <jerry....@live.com>
wrote:

>On 2/22/2010 6:44 AM, Ted Mayett wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:29:56 -0600, Anonymous<nob...@mixmaster.it>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> So, the Rev. tells the IRS:
>>>>> the Ministry helped organize
>>>>> and participate in two pickets commemorating the death of a young lady at
>>>>> the hands of a cult; one day in December 1997 and one in March of 1998.
>>>
>>> If in the inFormer Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles for these
>>> picketing events that it claims to have organized, then we are looking
>>> at criminal fraud. Informer Ministry has invoiced the city of Los
>>> Angeles for thousands of dollars for other events that it claimed to
>>> have organized for the mayor's office.
>>>
>>> http://www.mediafire.com/file/zneznngdztt/inFormer_Ministry_complete_unabridged_IRS_1023_public_disclosure.pdf
>>>
>>> I presume that information about these invoices and events as it relates
>>> to the religious organization InFormer Ministry, can be obtained with a
>>> freedom of information request from the mayor's office at the city of
>>> Los Angeles. It would be interesting to know just how many events this
>>> Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles, for.
>
>Here is what a website for the mayor of Los Angeles, Richard Riordan,
>has said about his mayor's office involvement in a "volunteer Bureau":
>
>http://www.cgu.edu/pages/1503.asp
>

>Riordan�s focus on healthy neighborhoods led to community-based action
>throughout the city. The mayor�s Volunteer Bureau saves city taxpayers

>more than $30 million each year by mobilizing more than 30,000
>community-spirited volunteers throughout the Los Angeles area. He also
>created the Los Angeles Neighborhood Initiative, a community-based
>effort designed to improve transit-dependent areas and established one
>dozen Targeted Neighborhood Initiatives that give citizens a say over
>community issues.
>
>[...]
>
>What is unclear about this program is how paying a tax-exempt ministry
>thousands of dollars saved the taxpayers any money. I'm sure that Paul
>Erlich, probably Dennis's brother, and a few ex-Scientologist friends of
>Dennis, helped out. But, if this program was really supposed to promote
>volunteerism, why does money change hands from the city government to a
>religious organization? That just seems like money-laundering to me.
>
>If you look at page 19 of the above mentioned PDF file, you will see an
>invoice that Erlich sent to the city of Los Angeles.
>

I'm not finding a pdf file???

>The date of the invoice is April 10, 1998, A month before Erlich applied
>for exemption.

But he did tell the IRS that his Ministry helped organize a picket
done in LA. A picket I had attended myself, and I had no clue
whatsoever that Erlich helped organize this thing, and certainly there
was no way I was involved with some Ministry.

> The invoice seems to be number 421. The invoices billed
>to "the city of Los Angeles -- a volunteer Bureau City Hall -- East".
>The description of the invoice reads "professional services of Rev.
>Dennis L. Erlich and volunteer members of the inFormer Ministry. Phase
>1 of volunteer festival contract: attended local planning meeting.
>Visited site. Met with festival coordinator."
>
>For that description the city of Los Angeles was build $1000. On the
>invoice the project name is "volunteer festival...."
>
>At the bottom of the invoice there is a notation "attention Roberta
>So...[illegible]"
>
>It does make one wonder to whom did the other 420 invoices go to? And,
>why the invoice should go to the attention of a specific person? Could
>this "Roberta" be a shill?
>
>In the "Bill to" box of the invoice, there is not a proper address.
>Usually these invoices are sent out in envelopes with a window, which
>leads one to wonder if the invoice was hand delivered?
>
>> Oh my. I was figuring he was just lying to make himself important,
>> telling the IRS that he helped organize large pickets. I never
>> thought of a monetary angle to this.
>>
>> Would he have been bold enough to invoice the city of LA for that
>> March 1998 Birthday Picket? Wow that would be bold.
>
>He was bold enough to use another person's property to misappropriate
>intellectual property of the Church of Scientology -- long considered by
>many, including Rev. Erlich -- to be dangerous to mess with. That's bold.
>

Well one thing scientology proper is good at doing, is to get into
city politics. It is called 'finding the Who'. I can see where
Erlich would be good at this, not that it really takes a lot of skill
though. Mainly it requires perseverance. Anyway, I can easily accept
that Erlich lies and collects free monies using that InFormer Ministry
of his.

>>
>> However, let's concede that this is typical Erlich lies with a grain
>> of truth involved. His standard fare. With this assumption thoughts
>> of that Clearwater 1997 'Lisa' picket come to mind. Because of that
>> Press Conference in CW 1997, Erlich might have claimed expenses to his
>> Ministry. This is a distinct possibility.
>
>To be sure. This man of God doesn't miss a turn.
>

He is an opportunist, pure and simple. Remember he says to the IRS
that he is doing god's work, and that he will need government funding.
I suppose god told him to get or apply for gov. funding.

>> He told the IRS that his InFormer Ministry helped organize these two
>> pickets. I really figured he was lying about this only to make
>> himself look large and grand. But there might well have been a
>> monetary angle to this affair. In which case he was lying (yet again)
>> for money.
>
>If there was an invoice for this event perhaps the description was,
>"neighborhood birthday celebration."
>

Sounds reasonable.


---
The Rev. Dennis Erlich speaks:
"I was ordained a minister in the Church of Scientology. I found God.
I accepted the task He assigned to me."

"During the two years between 1982 -1984, I broke away from the
organized Scientology church, and found God. God gave me a mission."


John Dorsay

unread,
Feb 23, 2010, 10:32:27 AM2/23/10
to

There's not a lot of deciphering involved when, as in Tom's case,
the anon poster signs his post with his own name. Anon posting
conceals location. Anon posting does not conceal stupid.


John


Ted Mayett

unread,
Feb 23, 2010, 8:13:48 AM2/23/10
to

>inFormer Ministry:
>

>In the past year with the assistance of other volunteers members of the
>Ministry, I have been interviewed by, appeared on, or been quoted on the
>subject of cults by Dateline NBC, ABC's Turning Point, CBS's 60 minutes,
>National Public Radio, Channel One Network, Wired Magazine, the BBC, German
>National TV, LA weekly, Wall Street Journal, Boston Herald, New Times, A&E
>Investigative Reports, American Lawyer, and hundreds of websites all over
>the Internet.
>

I don't know Dennis, I tell you I don't know....
Wall Street Journal? 60 Minutes? German National TV?

When did these things take place? How did I ever miss all of this?

aha. Maybe this: Maybe you never appeared on any of these. Maybe
you were never quoted on any of these. Maybe, just maybe, you were
interviewed by *some* of these.

It was the top story there for a while, Erlich vs Scn. Heck, I was
even interviewed at least once by phone, one time for sure from some
guy saying he was a reporter for a newspaper or a tv station or
something in England. I'd guess you were interviewed quite a bit
there Dennis, star of the hour and all of that.

I was actually interviewed a considerable number of times if I wanted
to count emails that wanted to interview me. Was this it Dennis? Are
you counting all the email requests you received. Every now and then
some student comes on ars asking us to fill out a survey of some kind.
Do you count a survey request as your InFormer Ministry having been
interviewed yet again?

But wait, you said, "interviewed and appeared on hundreds of
websites". Oh my, oh my. Your name certainly does appear on hundreds
of websites.

The fact is that your InFormer Ministry is not mentioned on hundreds
of web sites. It is your name that is mentioned Dennis, *not* the
ministry. However...

A google search on "InFormer Ministry" shows mention on critics web
pages, and yellow-pages type things. And even this falls way short of
"hundreds".

How about some documentation Dennis? From the wall street journal,
from 60 minutes. You must have saved them, these quotes of yours that
they used. Could you share them with us.

The Alien Krlll

unread,
Feb 23, 2010, 12:26:38 PM2/23/10
to
On 2/23/2010 6:42 AM, Ted Mayett wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:26:12 -0600, Jerola<jerry....@live.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/22/2010 6:44 AM, Ted Mayett wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:29:56 -0600, Anonymous<nob...@mixmaster.it>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> So, the Rev. tells the IRS:
>>>>>> the Ministry helped organize
>>>>>> and participate in two pickets commemorating the death of a young lady at
>>>>>> the hands of a cult; one day in December 1997 and one in March of 1998.
>>>>
>>>> If in the inFormer Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles for these
>>>> picketing events that it claims to have organized, then we are looking
>>>> at criminal fraud. Informer Ministry has invoiced the city of Los
>>>> Angeles for thousands of dollars for other events that it claimed to
>>>> have organized for the mayor's office.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mediafire.com/file/zneznngdztt/inFormer_Ministry_complete_unabridged_IRS_1023_public_disclosure.pdf
>>>>
>>>> I presume that information about these invoices and events as it relates
>>>> to the religious organization InFormer Ministry, can be obtained with a
>>>> freedom of information request from the mayor's office at the city of
>>>> Los Angeles. It would be interesting to know just how many events this
>>>> Ministry invoiced the city of Los Angeles, for.
>>
>> Here is what a website for the mayor of Los Angeles, Richard Riordan,
>> has said about his mayor's office involvement in a "volunteer Bureau":
>>
>> http://www.cgu.edu/pages/1503.asp
>>
>> Riordan�s focus on healthy neighborhoods led to community-based action
>> throughout the city. The mayor�s Volunteer Bureau saves city taxpayers

http://w2.eff.org/legal/cases/Scientology_cases/erlich_munsey_032995.reply

Has anybody else noticed that it was during this time of finding God,
that the reverend also found and used illegal street drugs?

According to his ex-wife Rosa, even during his religious counseling.

There may be a more mundane explanation for Rev. Erlich's conversations
with the Lord? That is, besides the money angle, and confidence games.

EBE

--

"A man of God that sees assholes on every horizon he gazes upon. Lying
sacks of shit surround this man and cocksuckers question his motives. An

interesting study." --Ted Mayett on Rev. Dennis Erlich, inFormer Ministry

"Rev" Norle Enturbulata DTS, PLC, OD, SPG

unread,
Feb 23, 2010, 12:54:34 PM2/23/10
to

"The Alien Krlll" <E...@teegeack.corn> wrote in message
news:hm134n$b2g$1...@news.eternal-september.org...


> On 2/23/2010 6:42 AM, Ted Mayett wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:26:12 -0600, Jerola<jerry....@live.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/22/2010 6:44 AM, Ted Mayett wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:29:56 -0600, Anonymous<nob...@mixmaster.it>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>

<blah blah woof woof snipped>

> Has anybody else noticed that it was during this time of finding God, that
> the reverend also found and used illegal street drugs?

Why do you care?

> According to his ex-wife Rosa, even during his religious counseling.

Do you think a hearsay account that may or may not have ever happened to be
the same as sworn testimony?


--
SP Goodman
Usually Right "Reverend" Norle Enturbulata DTS, OD KTC
*
http://www.youtube.com/Enturbulata
http://tinyurl.com/yre7c6
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
*
" You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."-- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
"...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
"Rather than give psychotics such treatment it would be far kinder to kill
them immediately and completely..."
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Science of Survival", p117
*
"5. invalidation is force applied. You apply enough force to anybody and
you've invalidated him. How invalidated can he get? Dead!"
- Dianetics and Scientology Tech. Dictionary by L. Ron Hubbard

The Alien Krlll

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Feb 23, 2010, 1:18:11 PM2/23/10
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On 2/23/2010 11:54 AM, "Rev" Norle Enturbulata DTS, PLC, OD, SPG wrote:
On 2/23/2010 6:42 AM, Ted Mayett wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:26:12 -0600, Jerola<jerry....@live.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/22/2010 6:44 AM, Ted Mayett wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:29:56 -0600, Anonymous<nob...@mixmaster.it>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>

http://w2.eff.org/legal/cases/Scientology_cases/erlich_munsey_032995.reply

Has anybody else noticed that it was during this time of finding God,

that the reverend also found and used illegal street drugs?

According to his ex-wife Rosa, even during his religious counseling.

There may be a more mundane explanation for Rev. Erlich's conversations

with the Lord? That is, besides the money angle, and confidence games.

EBE

> <blah blah woof woof snipped>

<Put back>

>
>> Has anybody else noticed that it was during this time of finding God,
>> that the reverend also found and used illegal street drugs?
>
> Why do you care?
>
>> According to his ex-wife Rosa, even during his religious counseling.
>
> Do you think a hearsay account that may or may not have ever happened to
> be the same as sworn testimony?
>
>

Hearsay?

> 13. I was dreadfully concerned about my daughter. My concern
>was that since leaving the Church, Dennis had found a new way to
>"counsel" people which included smoking pot, taking a walk and then
>talking. He tried to get me to do it several times when he visited in
>October, November and December, 1983. I did not participate and he
>continued to consider uSing this "process" to clear his mind.

Yea, I used to smoke a little reefer back then to clear my
head of the scieno-sh*t.

http://w2.eff.org/legal/cases/Scientology_cases/erlich_munsey_032995.reply

That is an admission.

It matters because US taxpayers are subsidizing a phony church, that may
be more of an opium den.

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