Dispelling the Lies
The Professor
this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
you think that way.
Feel free to send me an e-mail, but do it in peace. I don't want to
have a bunch of people trying to troll me.
Android Cat
> I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand
> that this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see
> the other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and
> why you think that way.
Usually people are called apologetics rather than naming themselves as such.
What is it about Scientology that you are apologetic for?
--
Ron of that ilk.
steven....@gmail.com
critics in it.
On Jan 10, 8:17 pm, "The Professor" <professor.david...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The Professor
I'm well aware, but I wanted to identify what I was right off the back
instead of going through deceit, as many of my colleagues have been
accused of.
> What is it about Scientology that you are apologetic for?
I'm not apologetic for Scientology... unless helping hunderds of
thousands is something to be sorry for. What I want to understand is
the reason why there are so many individuals who are so much against
this group. As questions arise, I hope to understand their grounds, or
even better... answer them. I would like to accomplish the latter,
moreso.
Nevaeh N. Lleh
Android Cat wrote:
> The Professor wrote:
> > I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand
> > that this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see
> > the other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and
> > why you think that way.
>
> Usually people are called apologetics rather than naming themselves as such.
>
He/She probably meant apologist, but you know, that all enlightening
"tech" that $cienos tout...
L. Ron said "apologetic" and that's damn well what he meant. You're an
anti-religious extremist bigot!!! ; )
> What is it about Scientology that you are apologetic for?
>
I'd say the $360,000.00 that was forked over for the mind fuck. But
that'd be just me.
Larry T.
"The Professor" <professor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168489077....@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Green Acres is the place for me.
Farm living is the life for me.
Land spreading out far and wide.
Forget Manhattan just give me that country side.
Apologetics? You understand that this group has large amounts of critics
in it? If you could you read you would KNOW that it did.
--
Larry
"These people believe the souls of fried
space aliens inhabit their bodies and hold
soup cans to get rid of them. I should
care what they think?"...Valerie Emmanuel
The Professor
On Jan 10, 8:42 pm, "Nevaeh N. Lleh" <Firestarr...@aol.com> wrote:
> Android Cat wrote:
> > The Professor wrote:
> > > I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand
> > > that this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see
> > > the other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and
> > > why you think that way.
>
> > Usually people are called apologetics rather than naming themselves as such.He/She probably meant apologist, but you know, that all enlightening
> "tech" that $cienos tout...
>
> L. Ron said "apologetic" and that's damn well what he meant. You're an
> anti-religious extremist bigot!!! ; )
>
> > What is it about Scientology that you are apologetic for?I'd say the $360,000.00 that was forked over for the mind fuck. But
Larry T.
> >Usually people are called apologetics rather than naming themselves as
> >such.
>
> I'm well aware, but I wanted to identify what I was right off the back
> instead of going through deceit, as many of my colleagues have been
> accused of.
You lie!
HINT: Famous Quentin Tarantino movie quote: {"No, I don't O'Ren, this is
Hattori Hanzo steel."}
--
Larry
"These people believe the souls of fried
space aliens inhabit their bodies and hold
soup cans to get rid of them. I should
care what they think?"...Valerie Emmanuel
(SNIP)
The Professor
Scientology with critics for more than 5 minutes.
I started to think that people could tell me themselves. Thanks for the
reminder.
Bye bye.
On Jan 10, 8:43 pm, "Larry T." <xxxxxxx...@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> "The Professor" <professor.david...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1168489077....@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand that
> > this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
> > other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
> > you think that way.
>
> > Feel free to send me an e-mail, but do it in peace. I don't want to
> > have a bunch of people trying to troll me.Green Acres is the place for me.
John
> This is exactly why for so many years, I've not talked about
> Scientology with critics for more than 5 minutes.
>
> I started to think that people could tell me themselves. Thanks for the
> reminder.
>
> Bye bye.
>
That's a bit non-confront.
Larry T.
> This is exactly why for so many years, I've not talked
> about Scientology with critics for more than 5 minutes.
> I started to think that people could tell me themselves.
> Thanks for the reminder.
>
> Bye bye.
Where have you been, on a 2½ or 5 year staff contract?
The Sea Org forces women into sodomy.
--
Larry
"These people believe the souls of fried
space aliens inhabit their bodies and hold
soup cans to get rid of them. I should
care what they think?"...Valerie Emmanuel
(SNIP)
antisectes
The professor? how do you hope to make us believe you are a professor,
braiwnwashed loon?
Out_Of_The_Dark
Go read these documents, exerpts ad articles and when you are done, I
can fill you in.
Documents Of A Lifetime - the uncensored L. Ron Hubbard papers
This site contains copies of a number of publicly-available documents
about Hubbard. The items listed below all come from public sources in
the US. ...
www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/cos/LRH-bio/
The Anderson Report: Board of Inquiry into Scientology, an official
inquiry into the Church of Scientology conducted for the State of
Victoria, Australia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_Report
Links to new pages at Caroline Letkeman's website: Chock full of good
stuff:
http://www.carolineletkeman.org/new.html
12-29-2006 :: Ron the Brainwasher
:: Errors in Time (excerpt)
:: Dianetics Its Background (excerpt)
:: The Evolution of a Science (excerpt)
:: The Evolution of a Science (excerpt)
:: DMSMH (excerpt)
:: Dianetics Today (excerpt)
:: More Outpoints (excerpt)
:: Scientology Clear Procedure Issue 1 (excerpt)
:: How We Work on the Third Dynamic (excerpt)
:: Auditing (excerpt)
:: Modern Security Cheicking (excerpt)
:: Organizational Operation (excerpts)
:: Psychosomatic: Its Meaning in Scientology (excerpt)
:: The Genus of Dianetics and Scientology (excerpt)
12-28-2006 :: Ron the Brainwasher
:: Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Scientology
Revisiting The Textbook on Psychopolitics
also known as The Brainwashing Manual
12-21-2006 :: Ron the Magus
:: Scientology ad "The magic formula"
12-10-2006 :: Ron the Brainwasher
:: All About Radiation (excerpts)
12-07-2006 :: Ron the Doctor
:: Ron the Brainwasher
12-07-2006 :: Life is a Game
:: Effectiveness of Brainwashing (excerpt)
:: Games/Goals (excerpt)
11-16-2006 :: Ron the Magus
:: The Beast 666 (excerpts)
11-15-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: Research at Oak Knoll Hospital
11-11-2006 :: Ron the Psychiatrist
:: Introducing Dianetics - Public Lecture Given At Shrine Auditorium,
Los Angeles
:: The Cause of Crime
11-09-2006 :: Ron the Confidence Man
:: OT Procedures for HCS/BScn Courses
11-09-2006 :: Ron the Psychiatrist
:: The Subject of Clearing
11-07-2006 :: Ron the Magus
:: Ron the Rosicrucian
11-06-2006 :: Ron the Malingerer
:: The Org Officer and His Resources Part I (excerpt)
:: Layout of the GPM (excerpt)
11-06-2006 :: Ron the Psychiatrist
:: Expanded Dianetics Case F (excerpts)
:: Suppressive Persons, Main Characteristics Of (excerpts)
:: Ability 47 The Radiation Picture and Scientology (excerpts)
11-05-2006 :: Ron the Psychiatrist
:: Introspection RD (excerpts)
:: Introspection RD Additional Actions (excerpts)
11-05-2006 :: Ron the Sociopath
:: Ron the Malingerer
11-03-2006 :: Ron the Psychiatrist
:: Effectiveness in Processing (excerpt)
:: One-way Flows in Processing: Question and Answer Period (excerpt)
:: Conception (excerpt)
:: The Conduct of an Auditor (excerpt)
:: Things An Auditor Must Not Do (excerpt)
:: Evaluation And Handling of Personnel Part 1 (excerpt)
:: Randomity and Effort (excerpt)
:: Coordination of Classes of Processes (excerpt)
10-31-2006 :: Ron the Doctor
:: Ron the Psychiatrist
10-29-2006 :: Religious Claims
:: Book: 8-8008 (excerpts)
10-29-2006 :: Writings
:: Letter to 48 Hours
10-27-2006 :: Ron the Sociopath
:: Ron the Confidence Man
10-26-2006 :: Ron the Magus
:: Lecture: Axioms and Fundamentals about Data (excerpt)
:: Lecture: Opening: What Is To Be Done On Course (excerpt)
10-25-2006 :: Scientology's Refund Policies
:: Rebates (excerpts)
10-24-2006 :: Scientology's Refund Policies
:: The Auditor's Code (1968) (excerpts)
:: The Auditor's Code (1980) (excerpts)
10-23-2006 :: Scientology's Refund Policies
:: Refunds and Repayments
:: Dianetic Contract
:: Introduction to Scientology Ethics (1989) (excerpts)
:: Introduction to Scientology Ethics (1998) (excerpts)
:: The New Auditor's Code (excerpts)
10-11-2006 :: Life is a Game
:: Scientology 8-8008 (excerpts)
10-11-2006 :: Life is a Game
:: New Slant on Life (excerpts)
10-10-2006 :: Life is a Game
:: Project Celebrity
09-30-2006 :: Life is a Game
:: Scientology Axiom 48
:: The Factors (excerpt)
09-19-2006 :: Oak Knoll Hospital Research
:: Dianetic Assists (excerpts)
09-14-2006 :: Life is a Game
:: New Slant on Life (excerpts)
09-09-2006 :: Life is a Game
:: Creation of Human Ability (excerpts)
08-26-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: VA Research/Narcosynthesis
08-24-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: Research at Oak Knoll Naval Hospital
08-24-2006 :: Ron the Sociopath
:: Ron the Doctor
08-24-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: Hollywood Research
08-23-2006 :: Research at St. Elizabeths Hospital
:: Lecture: Handling Psychotics (excerpt)
:: Lecture: Dead Men's Goals Part II (excerpt)
:: Lecture: Two-way Communication (excerpt)
:: Lecture: Gradients of Accessibility (excerpt)
:: Lecture: Chart of Human Evaluation Part I (excerpt)
:: Lecture: Suppressives and GAEs (excerpt)
:: Lecture: Methods of Processing (excerpt)
08-22-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: Research at St. Elizabeths Hospital
08-21-2006 :: Ron the Messiah
:: Ron the Metteyya
08-21-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: Research at George Washington University
08-18-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: Cytological Research
08-18-2006 :: Ron the Magus
:: Ron the Swami
08-17-2006 :: Ron the Magus
:: The Magical Revival (excerpts)
08-17-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: Psychological Research
:: Letter to A.E. van vogt
08-17-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: Research at Bethesda Naval Hospital
08-16-2006 :: Ron the Sociopath
:: Ron the Magus
08-16-2006 :: Ron the Messiah
:: Resistive Cases Former Therapy (excerpts)
:: Routine Three Heaven (excerpts)
08-15-2006 :: Ron the Sociopath
:: Ron the Messiah
08-13-2006 :: Ron the Sociopath
:: Ron the Liar
08-12-2006 :: Ron the Sociopath
:: Ron the Satyr
08-12-2006 :: Ron the Researcher
:: Research in Savannah, Georgia
08-09-2006 :: Claims about Mental Health Field
:: Propaganda by Redefinition of Words (excerpts)
08-01-2006 :: Claims about Mental Health Field
:: Dianetic Contract (excerpts)
:: Knowledge Reports (excerpts)
:: Expansion Theory of Policy (excerpts)
:: Dianetic Registration (excerpts)
:: A New Hope For Justice (excerpts)
:: Dianetics and Scientology Are New (excerpts)
:: The Criminal Mind (excerpts)
:: Criminals and Psychiatry (excerpts)
:: Organization Misunderstoods (excerpts)
:: Ethics, The Design Of (excerpts)
07-31-2006 :: Claims about Mental Health Field
:: Pain and Sex (excerpts)
:: The Criminal Mind and the Psychs (excerpts)
:: The Cause of Crime (excerpt)
:: OT Levels (excerpts)
:: Data About Fragrances (excerpts)
:: Todays' Terrorism (excerpts)
07-30-2006 :: Claims about Mental Health Field
:: Illegal PCs, Acceptance Of (excerpts)
:: Organizational Enturbulence (excerpt)
07-29-2006 :: Life is a Game
:: The Problems of Work (excerpts)
07-24-2006 :: Change of address
05-30-2006 :: Extorting Money
:: Reg Letter for Super Power
:: Flag Recruitment Flyer
:: Flag Recruitment Flyer
04-04-2006 :: Ron the Sociopath
:: The Birthday Game
:: Saluting the Champions
03-29-2006 :: Ron the Sociopath
:: Ron the Operator
03-28-2006 :: Fraudulent Claims
:: Ron the Researcher
:: Psychological Research
:: "Therapeutic" Hypnosis Research
03-27-2006 :: Life is a Game
:: Project Celebrity
:: Responsibilities of Leaders (excerpt)
03-25-2006 :: Extorting Control
:: HCOPL Injustice (excerpts)
03-24-2006 :: Extorting Control
:: Definition of Clay Pigeon
:: All About Radiation
03-23-2006 :: Fraudulent Claims
:: Problems of Work
03-22-2006 :: Documentation
E-mail: Death threat by Scientologist
03-21-2006 :: Documentation
New Section: Ron the Researcher
03-13-2006 :: Documentation
:: Erasing the Conscience
03-13-2006 :: Writings
:: Letter to David Miscavige
03-13-2006 :: Documentation
New Section: Science of Survival
03-12-2006 :: Documentation
New Section: The Birthday Game
03-07-2006 :: Documentation
:: The Magic of Dianetics
:: Claims about the superiority of Scientologists
03-04-2006 :: Documentation
New Section: Ron the Sociopath
02-28-2006 :: Documentation
New Section: Disconnection
01-14-2006 :: Refund Demand
:: Cough it up, DM
New in 2004-2005
Other Writings and Resources
_________________________________ Mary -- Out_Of_The-Dark
The Professor
"Where the f*** did that come from?" You mean staff with Scientology???
I'm not.
Antisectes, I never said that I was a professor. I'm a speaker,
though... aside from being someone who tries to answer people's
questions about Scientology.
Thank you Out_Of_The_Dark, I appreciate someone responding with
information that I can read and comprehend instead of the usual
"Scientology lies" or "Scientology kills" blinded responses that I've
received so many times in the past; or even that Xenu thing too... it's
all just a load of crap, in my opinion.
I also thank you for the explaination of why everyone here is so
"friendly" to Scientologists like myself. I'd like to assure everyone,
though... I am not part of some plot in any sense. Nor am I part of a
secret order that's going to kill anyone. Nor do I sacrifice babies.
Nor am I an alien.
I'm here just trying to get some proper reasoning. You'll notice that
I'm ASKING for the problems. An individual out to eliminate your
freedom of speech wouldn't be asking for your opinions on this matter,
now would they? ;-) And just because a few people are ruining
Scientology doesn't mean that it's all bad.
To be honest, I was going to leave this group after I saw all the very
unfriendly posts. I wasn't sure if I should leave and leave well enough
alone or to shoot back and defend myself. Now, your post put me over
the edge. I'm going to stay and see what more you have to say. Give me
a couple of days to digest this information, though.
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
The Professor wrote:
> I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand that
> this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
> other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
> you think that way.
Welcome!
Are you aware that in the past, members in good standing of the criminal
organisation known as the "church" <spit> $cientology (or "clams" as I like
to say ;-) ) have been censured for posting to this group without
permission? (Check out "Claire Swazey" on google or here posting as "Ball
of Fluff")?
>
> Feel free to send me an e-mail, but do it in peace. I don't want to
> have a bunch of people trying to troll me.
Dunno about any lies (that's your strawman, as I see it). And I prefer to
have my discussions in the open - not having anything to hide.
Let's start with some L Ron Hubbard. Perhaps you'd like to answer a question
for me:
How many people are to be disposed of quietly and without sorrow?
http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/dispose.htm
Best Regards
Jens
- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 211 585
"If t'were you, t'would be twerrific!" 'Men in Tights'
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Larry T.
"The Professor" <professor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168500865....@77g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> Larry_T... I have seven words in response to what you've written.
> "Where the f*** did that come from?" You mean staff with Scientology???
> I'm not.
Good thing for you, because the LIES are big and the pay is LOW and
there IS no Church of Scientology. It is not a religion, it is a money
making scheme and it doesn't help anybody. The "church" recycles OT's -
meaning asks people to do their OT levels, 2, 3 and 4 times. "What?" you say
"How can that be?", that's Scientology, the scheme of the century.
The Professor
posting. Nevertheless, I will discuss this with them, just to make sure
I'm right. You'd have to do something pretty bad to get you on the SP
list.
I never meant to give the idea that I was hiding or anything. I prefer
the forums, as well. However, if anyone wanted to send e-mail, that
would be fine too.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that question that you posed at
the end, though. Care to specify a little?
On Jan 10, 11:35 pm, Jens Tingleff <jenst...@tingleff.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> The Professor wrote:
> > I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand that
> > this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
> > other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
> > you think that way.Welcome!
>
> Are you aware that in the past, members in good standing of the criminal
> organisation known as the "church" <spit> $cientology (or "clams" as I like
> to say ;-) ) have been censured for posting to this group without
> permission? (Check out "Claire Swazey" on google or here posting as "Ball
> of Fluff")?
>
>
>
> > Feel free to send me an e-mail, but do it in peace. I don't want to
> > have a bunch of people trying to troll me.Dunno about any lies (that's your strawman, as I see it). And I prefer to
> have my discussions in the open - not having anything to hide.
>
> Let's start with some L Ron Hubbard. Perhaps you'd like to answer a question
> for me:
>
> How many people are to be disposed of quietly and without sorrow?
>
> http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/dispose.htm
>
> Best Regards
>
> Jens
>
> - --
> Key ID 0x09723C12, jenst...@tingleff.org
The Professor
honest.
I get to CLEAR, then to OT-II, then back down to Pre-Clear, then to
OT-III, then to OT-I, then to OT-IV where I've been pretty much been
halted at. I've tried to do OT-V but it seems like I always get bunked
down to OT-I or II again.
I'm not being critical, but I can understand what you are saying. As
far as I'm concerned though, that has no real influence on anything
that I am concerned with at this point in time.
On Jan 10, 11:55 pm, "Larry T." <xxxxxxx...@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> "The Professor" <professor.david...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1168500865....@77g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
butterflygrrrl
The Professor wrote:
> I've done my Operating Thetan levels a couple of times. Just being
> honest.
>
> I get to CLEAR, then to OT-II, then back down to Pre-Clear, then to
> OT-III, then to OT-I, then to OT-IV where I've been pretty much been
> halted at. I've tried to do OT-V but it seems like I always get bunked
> down to OT-I or II again.
Okay, you've done OT III.
Can I ask you a question?
How did you react to the story of Xenu?
Do you believe it?
Okay, that's two questions...
The Professor
I actually learned about Xenu on OT-II through a wog friend of mine. I
never believed it, as it was told to me in a fashion that it wouldn't
be true. I'm beginning to think I had a really good auditor or
something. It suprises me that there are actually people who believe
that Xenu really existed. I've not heard this from any source that I've
talked to in the Church, as of yet.
On Jan 11, 12:23 am, "butterflygrrrl" <butterflygrr...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
butterflygrrrl
The Professor wrote:
> I actually learned about Xenu on OT-II through a wog friend of mine. I
> never believed it, as it was told to me in a fashion that it wouldn't
> be true. I'm beginning to think I had a really good auditor or
> something.
Why do you think you had a really good auditor or something and how
does that relate to my questions?
>It suprises me that there are actually people who believe
> that Xenu really existed. I've not heard this from any source that I've
> talked to in the Church, as of yet.
Who believes that Xenu actually existed? To whom are you referring?
You didn't actually answer my questions, so here they are again:
> > How did you react to the story of Xenu?
> >
> > Do you believe it?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
Here are two more for good measure:
Do you believe that it is a myth of your religion on the level of the
garden of eden story in the Bible?
Do you acknowledge that the OT III materials tell the story of Xenu?
Thank you in advance for your response.
The Professor
speak with a member of Scientology face to face. I hope you understand.
I'm hoping to maybe answer these after I get back (Saturday evening,
hopefully). This was a friendly one, not a totalitarian request.
You guys don't seem so bad, afterall btw. ;-)
On Jan 11, 12:51 am, "butterflygrrrl" <butterflygrr...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> The Professor wrote:
> > I actually learned about Xenu on OT-II through a wog friend of mine. I
> > never believed it, as it was told to me in a fashion that it wouldn't
> > be true. I'm beginning to think I had a really good auditor or
> > something.Why do you think you had a really good auditor or something and how
> does that relate to my questions?
>
> >It suprises me that there are actually people who believe
> > that Xenu really existed. I've not heard this from any source that I've
> > talked to in the Church, as of yet.Who believes that Xenu actually existed? To whom are you referring?
>
> You didn't actually answer my questions, so here they are again:
>
> > > How did you react to the story of Xenu?
>
> > > Do you believe it?A simple yes or no will suffice.
butterflygrrrl
The Professor wrote:
> I've been advised not to disclose anymore information until after I
> speak with a member of Scientology face to face. I hope you understand.
> I'm hoping to maybe answer these after I get back (Saturday evening,
> hopefully). This was a friendly one, not a totalitarian request.
>
> You guys don't seem so bad, afterall btw. ;-)
Huh. That stumps me.
I don't understand why anyone would belong to a group that seeks to
control one's communications.
Can you at least answer that?
Why would you want to belong to a group that seeks to exert any
controls whatsoever on your communications?
As an intellectual, the very idea is anathema to me.
We're not so bad, really.
I am also interested in exactly which lies you are attempting to
dispel?
Thanks.
jerald
My problem with scientology isn't what you believe in, its with the
actions scientology takes toward mental illness and critics. Lets
start here with the numbers scientology likes to toss around. Like
1000000 dead in mental hospitals. That makes people sit and think.
Of course what they leave out most times is this is over a 40 year time
span. It also leaves out that the cause of most of these death had
nothing to do with mental illness. But other illness people get as
they grow older or weaker.
The fact that scientology says there is no such thing as mental illness
when there is 100 years of science that proves otherwise. And tens of
millions of people leading better lives because of it. This being
claimed by scientology at the same time they refuse to open themselves
up to independent study to see if their ways work. Claims that they
can cure drug abuse and other illness that could save millions and not
let the world see it works? This alone should make you stop and
question scientology.
Look at xenutv.com and see how they treat critics and even governments
who disagree with them. Sorry but your religion shouldn't try to
destroy people or even governments in order to expand where it really
isn't wanted. " Snow White " alone should keep people closely watching
the actions of scientology. Take a long hard look at the RFW web site
and see how this religion treats those who dare to speak out against
them. You should be shocked at this behavior.
I have never been a member of scientology nor have I ever been hurt by
them. I am the very kind of person scientology wants to reach. I am
part of that huge group of people in this country and the world who
will decide if your church grows or dies over the next few years. I
am the everyday guy. But I am not stupid and scientology treats me as
if I am.
I do look and have looked at all sides of this. Most of us will before
giving our time and beliefs to any group. I looked and I because a
critic. I don't hate anyone, I do however hate the actions I have
written about above. And until scientology changes most everyday
people will see it as I do. I know you feel you have to follow the
writings of Hubbard. But times change and people grow and change.
We no longer stone people in the public square as the bible once said
we should. scientology also needs to see that Hubbard was just a man.
And times have changed since he was on this earth. And a lot of what
he wrote is no longer normal in these times.
No one critic made me a critic also. No one book or news story make me
a critic. The action's of scientology made me a critic. Its really
that simple. Its what scientology has done in its own words and
writings that made me sit back and think this group is wrong. And
scientology makes many more critics everyday than new members. And
they do it to themselves.
Hope this helps you understand a little of at least what I feel and
think.
jerald
Hartley Patterson
> I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand that
> this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
> other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
> you think that way.
First, we all think differently.
"The surest way to corrupt a child is to teach him to hold in higher
esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Nietzsche.
So don't assume please that what I or anyone says represents a general
viewpoint.
What we think used to be here, but over a decade of posting many of us
moved our arguments and evidence on to websites, which thanks to Search
Engines have a wider audience. Just as scientologists often say "you
should read Hubbard's books" (as if we haven't), critics say "read the
websites".
Reading the link below would be a start.
--
ARS Frequently Asked Questions
Please read before posting
http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/faq.htm
Zinj
@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, professor...@gmail.com
says...
<snip>
> I actually learned about Xenu on OT-II through a wog friend of mine. I
> never believed it, as it was told to me in a fashion that it wouldn't
> be true. I'm beginning to think I had a really good auditor or
> something. It suprises me that there are actually people who believe
> that Xenu really existed. I've not heard this from any source that I've
> talked to in the Church, as of yet.
But, you've said that you've been up to OT V, so, therefore
*through* OTIII a number of times.
Didn't you consider the L. Ron Hubbard handwritten 'Story of
Xenu' that you got in a locked briefcase and had to 'sign out'
for to be 'from the Church'?
Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think
Larry T.
> I've done my Operating Thetan levels a couple of times. Just being
> honest.
>
> I get to CLEAR, then to OT-II, then back down to Pre-Clear, then to
> OT-III, then to OT-I, then to OT-IV where I've been pretty much been
> halted at. I've tried to do OT-V but it seems like I always get bunked
> down to OT-I or II again.
>
> I'm not being critical, but I can understand what you are saying. As
> far as I'm concerned though, that has no real influence on anything
> that I am concerned with at this point in time.
Me either.
--
Larry
"These people believe the souls of fried space
aliens inhabit their bodies and hold soup cans to
get rid of them"...Valerie Emmanuel
{SNIP}
Saucy111
The Professor wrote:
> I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand that
> this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
> other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
> you think that way.
>
> Feel free to send me an e-mail, but do it in peace. I don't want to
> have a bunch of people trying to troll me.
There is one important thing that you need to understand, before you
begin to ask these kinds of questions:
The Church of Scientology lies. All the damn time. It lies to the
general public, it lies to governments, it lies to it's members. It
has lied to you.
I realize you need to believe you're helping people, but the sad truth
is that you're only bringing in "fresh meat" to be chewed up and spit
out.
If you get any questions/answers here, do yourself a favor, and don't
just dismiss them. Think.
Larry T.
"Saucy111" <sauc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168529611.5...@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> The Professor wrote:
>
>> I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand that
>> this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
>> other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
>> you think that way.
>>
>> Feel free to send me an e-mail, but do it in peace. I don't want to
>> have a bunch of people trying to troll me.
>
> There is one important thing that you need to understand, before you
> begin to ask these kinds of questions:
>
> The Church of Scientology lies. All the damn time. It lies to the
> general public, it lies to governments, it lies to it's members. It
> has lied to you.
>
> I realize you need to believe you're helping people, but the sad truth
> is that you're only bringing in "fresh meat" to be chewed up and spit
> out.
Or...just spreading the lies. Like the time an Ethics Officer in New York
City at the local Scientology church there told me I had to go home and
"disconnect" from my parents when I was 18 years old because they were not
in favor of the church? They were in favor of it at first, until the
Scientologists opened their lying mouths and showed up in their true colors.
--
Larry
"These people believe the souls of fried space
aliens inhabit their bodies and hold soup cans to
get rid of them..." - Valerie Emmanuel
{SNIP}
Muldoon
alex wrote:
> In article <1168503028....@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> "The Professor" <professor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I actually learned about Xenu on OT-II through a wog friend of mine. I
> >never believed it, as it was told to me in a fashion that it wouldn't
> >be true. I'm beginning to think I had a really good auditor or
> >something. It suprises me that there are actually people who believe
> >that Xenu really existed. I've not heard this from any source that I've
> >talked to in the Church, as of yet.
>
> > honest.
> >
> > I get to CLEAR, then to OT-II, then back down to Pre-Clear, then to
> > OT-III, then to OT-I, then to OT-IV where I've been pretty much been
> > halted at. I've tried to do OT-V but it seems like I always get bunked
> > down to OT-I or II again.
>
>
> Alex
Alex, what is your weekly quota of flame-troll posts?
Muldoon
alex wrote:
> In article <1168532089....@77g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Thats not a flame troll!
>
> The person doesnt even demonstrate and "symtoms" of ever even having
> been a scientologist, much less having gone through the ot levels!!
>
> BTW what you been up to???? Haven't seen much of you lately? Is the
> PROJECT coming along? or running into stops.....
>
> :)
>
> alex
It's coming along just fine, Alex.
And Alex, have you completed your OT 3 yet?
Android Cat
> In article <1168503028....@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> "The Professor" <professor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I actually learned about Xenu on OT-II through a wog friend of mine.
>> I never believed it, as it was told to me in a fashion that it
>> wouldn't be true. I'm beginning to think I had a really good auditor
>> or something. It suprises me that there are actually people who
>> believe that Xenu really existed. I've not heard this from any
>> source that I've talked to in the Church, as of yet.
And what about the Implant Stations on Mars and Venus? Those are in
material right from History of Man/What to Audit straight through to Between
Lives Implants as covered by the Dukes of the Auditor Elite at ASHO.
>> I've done my Operating Thetan levels a couple of times. Just being
>> honest.
>>
>> I get to CLEAR, then to OT-II, then back down to Pre-Clear, then to
>> OT-III, then to OT-I, then to OT-IV where I've been pretty much been
>> halted at. I've tried to do OT-V but it seems like I always get
>> bunked down to OT-I or II again.
>
> you are so full of shit. Not even a well educated attempt....
With all the Nu'n'Improved New Era Dianetics, Golden Era of Tech, Golden Age
of Thought, etc, redefinitions of the Standard Tech OT levels, isn't it
possible that The Professor got bounced around like a thetan ping-pong ball
as each certification was as-is'ed?
"Where am I?"
"On the Island."
"What do you want?"
"Entertainment."
"Whose side are you on?"
"That would be telling.... We want entertainment. Entertainment!
ENTERTAINMENT!"
"You won't get it."
"By hook or by crook, we will."
"Who are you?"
"The new Skipper."
"Who is Gillgan?"
"You are The Professor."
"I am not a TV character — I am a free man!"
(Hearty laughter from the Skipper, cut to commercial)
--
Ron of that ilk.
butterflygrrrl
alex wrote:
> Oh come on Brian!
>
> Thats not a flame troll!
>
> The person doesnt even demonstrate and "symtoms" of ever even having
> been a scientologist, much less having gone through the ot levels!!
Really? There are symptoms? And what, pray tell, are *they*?
BTW, Professor, in case you couldn't tell from his rudeness, alex is a
real live scientologist.
Muldoon
Both the Professor and Alex have similar 'shore stories'. Neither can
quite make it through "OT 3," but know what others (the humanoids) say
about "OT 3," but dispute the accuracy of what others say; both are
"members of Scientology," yet are vaguely dissatisfied with the
organization (in this "world built with broken straws,") etc.
As for the "Professor," I just noticed him/it. I never said the
"Professor" was a flame-troll. Off hand, looks like another fake
persona, perhaps the new *one* "reasonable member." (?)
The flame-troll is *you*, Alex - since your demotion.
And Alex - are you going to answer the question: "Have you completed
your OT 3"?
Unsolicited advice: Probing the likes of the Professor or Alex may be
interesting at times. Taking them seriously, and actually spending any
amount of time arguing with them is usually a waste.
But by all means probe - just remember to put on your rubber gloves
first.
goo...@draemr.com
I took a look at the thread and I can understand that the responses to
your query might seem not too friendly. As you learn more, I think you
might understand why you get that reaction.
I am an ex-scientologist. I was in for 27 years. I did my share of
study and giving and getting auditing.
I am not only out, but I am also trying to inform people about my
experience and what I found out once I left scientology.
I really don't care that much about the theology of scientology.
Rather, I am concerned with the actions of scientology. Those actions
are rooted in the policy, writings and behavior of hubbard.
As perhaps you will learn, many of the things hubbard said about
himself and his life are simply not true. Things such as his trips to
china, his schooling, his military record, are available through
research and through government, school and other documents. The
sources exterior to scientology reveal that he lied about himself.
Scientology of course will say it is all fabricated to impugn his
reputation.
Yet, if true, these documents and research that clearly show hubbard
lied also reveal that scientology is fraud.
I don't know about you, but I relied on hubbard's representations of
himself to make important decisions about becoming a scientologist,
making payments to scientology and attempting to gain for myself the
results hubbard said scientology could uniformly deliver to
individuals.
Making false representations to people in the process of getting them
to sign up, pay money or deliver time, effort or resources to you, is
fraud.
It doesn't matter if it seems to work, or that you got something. The
false representations make it fraud.
It is well known to many who frequent this group that the organizations
of scientology and people in their employ make extreme effort to
prevent anyone from giving any credence to the evidence of hubbards
personal lies and fraud and the general lies and fraud of the business
he founded. Documents from the group itself show they tried to frame
people, physically harm people and destroy their reputations in order
to prevent this information from being spread and being believed. I
realize this might be hard to credit. Yet clear evidence of this has
been gathered by the FBI, and exists in many exibits and testimony in
court proceedings.
Tory Christman in her writings tells about how she as a member of
scientology, working with the 'office of special affairs' part of the
group, helped them to disrupt communications on the internet as part of
these actions. She is a good source of information. You can even call
her.
In my own journey, which you can read some accounts of by googling my
name and reading my essays on the subject, I determined that there had
to be at least one nexus, one key point of information that I could
find out personally if it was true or false.
For me, that was the event of hubbard's death. The scientology group's
explanations and account of it didn't make sense.
You see, if hubbard was all he represented himself to be, if the
scientology program delivered what he promised in all the millions of
words of scientology writings and lectures, the he should have gone out
as the bright shining exemplar of all his tech and philosophy promises.
I determined to compare the account I received from scientology with
the actual documents available from the coroner's office and county
records in San Luis Obispo where he died in 1986.
I obtained the actual documents from the police files and the county
records. They revealed that hubbard, far from being the expected
shining OT example, died in disturbing circumstances, from a stroke,
with a drug, Vistaril, in his body. He was unkempt, had needle
injection marks in his butt, had long hair and finger and toe nails.
The attending doctor notes he experienced disphrasia from the stroke
before he died. The people with him at the time and after his death
tried to keep the fact of it from the authorities by calling the
funeral home directly, and delayed doing that for somewhere going on
eleven hours after he died.
David Miscavige told me at the event anouncing hubbard's death, that
hubbard was strong and healthy and that he only 'left the body' to do
more spiritual research. None of the disturbing details from the
coroner report and death certificate and toxicology screen were told
the assembled scientology members at that event. At the least it is
witholding material facts. And that makes it fraud.
I understand that since the report information now is widely available,
the scientology group tries to down play the significance of the
coroners report, the drug in his body, etc. To me that is misdirection,
coverup, or just 'rationalized thought'. The truth is too unpalatable.
Yet, if you really 'confront' the implication of how hubbard died, you
simply see that the founder and chief promoter of the tech, ethics,
policy and philosophy of scientology did in no way achieve for even
himself what he promised to others. And that should open the door for
you to find out for yourself what else you have been told has been
misrepresented or are out right lies.
It is too easy for critics and even ex-scientologists to come to think
that those still in the scientology group are not intelligent, or they
are knowing parts of a con game. Or outright malicious. The known
behavior of some scientologists support that. But I know that the vast
majority have simply never known the outside information and are
honesty laboring to get what hubbard promised them. I spent 27 years in
that state myself and I try to have compassion.
Michael Leonard Tilse
butterflygrrrl
Muldoon wrote:
> Both the Professor and Alex have similar 'shore stories'. Neither can
> quite make it through "OT 3," but know what others (the humanoids) say
> about "OT 3," but dispute the accuracy of what others say; both are
> "members of Scientology," yet are vaguely dissatisfied with the
> organization (in this "world built with broken straws,") etc.
>
> As for the "Professor," I just noticed him/it. I never said the
> "Professor" was a flame-troll. Off hand, looks like another fake
> persona, perhaps the new *one* "reasonable member." (?)
I was thinking the same thing about the professor. Alex failed to stay
"reasonable" and so they had to bring in a new ringer.
> The flame-troll is *you*, Alex - since your demotion.
I was very surprised to see him confuse your question for him (meaning
alex) as being meant for the professor. You very clearly asked:
>>Alex, what is your weekly quota of flame-troll posts?
Perhaps he should have taken the "Alex" and the "your" as clues to your
meaning.
> Unsolicited advice: Probing the likes of the Professor or Alex may be
> interesting at times. Taking them seriously, and actually spending any
> amount of time arguing with them is usually a waste.
>
> But by all means probe - just remember to put on your rubber gloves
> first.
Thank you for the advice. ;-) I have received many messages of concern
that perhaps my feelings were being hurt or that alex or bbicon or
RockSlam were getting under my skin. Although I realize that my posts
to them can occasionally be a little shrill, that is more an indication
of the effect I wish my posts to have upon them, than an indication of
my actual emotional state. And I rarely take anything seriously.
Certainly never the internet.
<<<Dons rubber gloves, waders, and face mask and picks up stick>>>
Wiwll duu, cappin!
(Could you hear me?)
Susan
<goo...@draemr.com> wrote in message
news:1168543752....@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Very well stated.
Thanks,
Susan
Saucy111
Muldoon wrote:
<snip>
> But by all means probe - just remember to put on your rubber gloves
> first.
Hmmm... seems I'm allergic to latex... well, I'll just have to drag out
the nitrile mortician's gloves. :) (They go past your elbows.)
barbz
Whoa...that just gave me SUCH a case of cognitive dissonance, I can't
describe it.
Thanks for the ride! :)
--
--
Spidergraham
Chaplain, ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
ida...@aol.com
Thanks Tils Hope the Professor reads and lets the truth register.
On page 20 in "A History of Man Hubbard writes "Cancer has been
eradicated by
auditing out conception and mitosis". There are many $cientologists
listed on
"why are they dead" and several have died of cancer.
I often wonder why my $cientology son believed that bs and waited so
long for
legitimate doctors to treat his cancer. He has lots of time to think
about it as he
spends three hours a day five days a week on a dialysis chair. He is
an OT8.
I would like to put my arms around him but you see I am "disconnected"
Sad
but true.
So Professor think twice before you go further with this crappola
founded by the
biggest bser of all L. Ron Hubbard
Ida Camburn
I am thinking rather of the fact that
those who are helped
by dianetics will necessarily be kept at a low level of intellectual
and emotional maturity by the nonsense they have absorbed in order to
be helped."
S.I. HAYAKAWA
knok_knok
The Professor wrote:
> I've been advised not to disclose anymore information until after I
> speak with a member of Scientology face to face. I hope you understand.
> I'm hoping to maybe answer these after I get back (Saturday evening,
> hopefully). This was a friendly one, not a totalitarian request.
>
SNAP........guess OSA was monitoring this dude and pulled the plug
until they can "audit" this guys terrible display of free thought.
RPF for you pal....see ya in a couple of years.
knok_knok
Magoo
"The Professor"--
As a now x-Scientologist, who was also "In" for 30 years,
I'd like to ask you to answer a few questions. I agree with much of what has
been said here, by Michael, if not all. (I only don't say all as I haven't
read it ALL, as I had to go to work). I left Scientology in 2000, and
frankly, wasn't going to speak out---make ANY videos--or picket AT ALL.
Guess what got me doing so?
You can watch www.xenutv.com and actually SEE me, 2 weeks after I left.
("Magoo: Dancing in Boston"). I still believed then in "The Tech"--I still
believed in Hubbard, even. My only upset, in 2000 when I left, was with DM
and the lies and miss application that had occurred re management and the
running of Scientology.
So what happened? Well, frankly your group kept pestering me,
and I finally realized, "Wait a minute! I have a RIGHT to speak, and I
actually have a WHOLE lot to say. These people are NOT doing what I know and
have been trained on as what IS Scientology---they're violating it
constantly. I'd spent years trying to talk with the Exec's and TELL Them
this, with zero interest from them. Now? I was free, they were right there
doing exactly what I'd tried to explain was NUTS and CREATING more enemies
for them (Such as stalking Bunker's house and he himself. You can see how
well that one worked on the most viewed video of his: DUH! Here, in Boston,
these two OSA nuts were refusing to talk, only video taping me, and
intentionally trying to piss me off. Well, they hit my limit, and the rest
is HISTORY!)
And that began what's been a wild ride, to say the least.
Yes, I did open up phony internet accounts, and I ask you, what DO you think
of your 'Church" sliming up the Internet, actively trying to stop free
speech? Spare me the "The Exec's didn't know" as they ran it! Spare me the,'
That isn't really what Scientology is about". Oh yes it is, and you asked,
and now *I*
would like to hear how ***You***(Not "the church" <gack!> but you) feel
about this?
Next? How DO you feel about L. Ron Hubbard lying about not taking medicine,
and Scientology asking people such as myself to get off of MUCH NEEDED
MEDICATION, getting seriously HARMED due to their idiotic programs, and yet,
Hubbard was behind the scenes, taking meds all the time I was run on "People
with chronic illnesses are 1.1" (L. Ron Hubbard-Science of Survival, if you
missed it, Chart of Human Eval)?
How DO you feel about families, such as mine and Ida's and MANY others being
broken up by the very actions of what is supposed to be a "Church"? Oh
Gawd...spare me the "Handle" on that, as I know it only too well. Here's the
truth: It doesn't work: REAL religions do not practice disconnection. Other
CULTS have *something* similar, although most academics I've spoken with say
the 2 worst cults are "the Moonies and Scientology". Why? Because the traps
are built in SO deep, and so early on. This breaking up of families I
believe shall wipe out Scientology, and their other abuses such as Fair Game
faster than any other actions they do.
These are each serious abuses with TONS of pain your group has and does
create daily, doing such things.
I could go on, but let's start there. You asked, please fill me in.
I'm listening.
And welcome to ARS!
Best to you :)
Tory/Magoo~~
>
Barbara Schwarz
The Professor wrote:
> I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand that
> this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
> other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
> you think that way.
>
> Feel free to send me an e-mail, but do it in peace. I don't want to
> have a bunch of people trying to troll me.
Perhaps you should approach one lie after the other.
For example: do real Scientologists indeed believe that they were clams
in their past lives?
My answer: a thetan without body might play in the ocean but most
certainly did not evolute from clams but the socalled critics try to
sell this to others.
--
One of mine, Patrick Michael Sullivan's and other people's cyberstalker
is Patrick Lee Humphrey ("The Chief Instigator") from Houston, Texas, a
HATEFUL AND VULGAR PERSON. Humphrey was fired from Rice University and
is accused of being a stalker, a self-confessed peeping Tom, a glaring
hypocrite, a redneck and blasphemer. He is a fan of the Houston Aeros,
he calls himself an Areohead, while he is rather an airhead. Under each
of his hateful and defamatory stalker postings, he links to the Houston
Aeros and other sports websites. I doubt that they appreciate the
"advertisement" of a stalker and abuser. If you don't believe that
Humphrey stalks, defames, abuses and hurts people who never did
anything to him, google his postings. He is always the one who throws
the first stone and can't leave others alone.
Report him to his upstream provider PrismNet. If you report him to
abuse @ io.com they unlawfully ignore your complaint. Go directly to
the upstream provider who takes a very dim view of Humphrey's stalking
and harassing people: admin @ prismnet.com.
--- Barbara Schwarz
Larry T.
"Barbara Schwarz" <barbara...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168567263....@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> The Professor wrote:
>> I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand that
>> this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
>> other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
>> you think that way.
>>
>> Feel free to send me an e-mail, but do it in peace. I don't want to
>> have a bunch of people trying to troll me.
>
> Perhaps you should approach one lie after the other.
> For example: do real Scientologists indeed believe that they were clams
> in their past lives?
Barbara:
The "History of Man" by L. Ron Hubbard says that men EVOLVED from CLAMS and
all one needs to do is restimulate with one's hand the motions of a clam
shell opening and closing on a beach in order to cause someone to lose all
their teeth.
Why lie Barbara? Aren't there enough full of shit people in the world?
--
Larry
"These people believe the souls of fried space
aliens inhabit their bodies and hold soup cans to
get rid of them..." - Valerie Emmanuel
(SNIP)
Jens Tingleff
Hash: SHA1
The Professor wrote:
> I don't think that's true about Scientology restricting someone from
> posting. Nevertheless, I will discuss this with them, just to make sure
> I'm right. You'd have to do something pretty bad to get you on the SP
> list.
Oh, Flyffy is baaaad, alright :-)
>
> I never meant to give the idea that I was hiding or anything. I prefer
> the forums, as well. However, if anyone wanted to send e-mail, that
> would be fine too.
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that question that you posed at
> the end, though. Care to specify a little?
>
[..........]
>>
>> How many people are to be disposed of quietly and without sorrow?
>>
>> http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/dispose.htm
OK.
This is how it works: You read the page referenced by the URI (the bits
after the "http:"). On this page it quotes L Ron Hubbard from the publicly
available book "Science of Survival." The L Ron Hubbard quotes relates to
what he would like to see happen to "people below 2.0 on the tone scale."
Please tell me *how many* people are to be disposed of quietly and without
sorrow.
See, some critics are saying that the criminal organisation known as the
"church" <spit> of $cientology would like to dispose of 2.5% of the
population of this sector of the universe. That sounds like what you've
called a "lie." Maybe you'd like to contest the statement that the
$cientology cult is planning mass murder on an unprecedented scale.
Best Regards
Jens
- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mandriva Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 211 585
"The trouble with people is that they're only human" Calvin & Hobbes
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Zinj
@news.west.earthlink.net>, alexr...@hotmail.com says...
> In article <1168532675....@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
> "Muldoon" <bria...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > It's coming along just fine, Alex.
> >
> > And Alex, have you completed your OT 3 yet?
>
> are you trying to get me declared?
>
> a
That might qualify as 'true friendship', but, I suspect you're
just an aquaintance; and one he's not even sure he's aquainted
with at that.
So, barring the fairly common random 'lashing out' paroxysm of
the twitching yet paranoid cult, you may have to getcherself
out.
In the long run (and even the short run) that's usually the
healthiest method. But, any escape-hatch is better than none.
Hephaestus
alex wrote:
> In article <1168532675....@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> a
That would get you out of scientology...
Out_Of_The_Dark
alex wrote:
> > Muldoon wrote:
> > It's coming along just fine, Alex.
> >
> > And Alex, have you completed your OT 3 yet?
>
Alex, I don't think that was the intent but if he was 'trying to get
you declared' he'd be doing you a big favor because 'being declared' is
the biggest lie Scientology hangs over it's victims head to keep them
cooperating.
Mary Out_of_The_Dark
DM the Little Dictator
Source's Apprentice - Home
http://ecclesiopath.xenu.ca/
Suppresive Person Defense League
http://www.suppressiveperson.org/fair_game/index.html
http://www.carolineletkeman.org
Out_Of_The_Dark
alex wrote:
> In article <1168800264.5...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Its inevitable, but I fear it not.
>
> But I have things to do before.
>
> a < < < <
Like confronting reality? ;)
It's like the Truman Show Alex. You just have to step 3 feet outside
the grand scam and realize you've been duped.
The relief you will feel will make all the other tasks easy.
~Mary Out_Of_The_Dark
Tory Christman: Scientology & The Truman Show
http://www.xenu-directory.net/accounts/christman20060122.html
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
The Professor wrote:
> snip .... What I want to understand is
> the reason why there are so many individuals who are so much against
> this group.
In my opinion, why there are so many individuals so much against
Scientology, two reasons:
1) The official movement actively and doggedly goads its perceived
enemies. It keeps its enemies stirred up.
2) The official church continuously executes too many authoritarian
rules on its members, providing a stream of disgruntled ex members.
The unofficial independent group of ex Scientologists don't engage in
elaborate and continuing bitter nasty goading of its "enemies." And
the unofficial indpendent group of ex Scientologists don't do heavy
authoritarian inhumane stuff on their customers. While the independent
movement has in my opinon a pretty tiny operation, still its share of
unsatisfied customers aren't inflamed to go public and complain.
Chuck Beatty
Mark Thorson
>
> In my opinion, why there are so many individuals so much against
> Scientology, two reasons:
>
> 1) The official movement actively and doggedly goads its perceived
> enemies. It keeps its enemies stirred up.
>
> 2) The official church continuously executes too many authoritarian
> rules on its members, providing a stream of disgruntled ex members.
Isn't it also true that the church, by its nature,
requires finding members to use as scapegoats when
things go wrong (and go wrong, they do). As a result,
there is a steady stream of ex-members who would have
wished to stay in, but are SP-declared and expelled
from the movement through no fault of their own.
In this regard, it resembles the period of "High
Stalinism" in Russia, when the most victimized group
of people were the members of the Communist Party
itself. Whenever things would go wrong (and go wrong,
they did), the secret police would be unleashed to
hunt down the "wreckers" who had sabotaged The Plan.
And find them, they did. At one point, the entire
Central Committee of the Ukrainian Communist Party
was arrested and executed. But for some reason,
that didn't help.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
snip
> Isn't it also true that the church, by its nature,
> requires finding members to use as scapegoats when
> things go wrong (and go wrong, they do). As a result,
> there is a steady stream of ex-members who would have
> wished to stay in, but are SP-declared and expelled
> from the movement through no fault of their own.
>
> In this regard, it resembles the period of "High
> Stalinism" in Russia, when the most victimized group
> of people were the members of the Communist Party
> itself. Whenever things would go wrong (and go wrong,
> they did), the secret police would be unleashed to
> hunt down the "wreckers" who had sabotaged The Plan.
> And find them, they did. At one point, the entire
> Central Committee of the Ukrainian Communist Party
> was arrested and executed. But for some reason,
> that didn't help.
Absolutely! Church administrative procedures for finding "whys" and
also finding "whos" and then doing ethics handlings on the "whos"
(normally demoting them, or RPFing or offloading, or SP declaring
them).
These USSR parallels fit accurately.
Marx and Hubbard were never wrong!
Hubbard's "Data Series" policies of the early 1970s outline
administrative techniques to find the "who" for the major negative and
positive situations that require attention administratively.
Hubbard of course also labelled himself as a positive influence, never
a negative one. His rules force members to always lay the blame on
someone else, never him.
There have been 3 sets of cleanouts of Int staff, one in the early 80s,
one in the early 90s, and one in the early 2000s.
The cleanouts of "deadwood" are a separate matter, but similar in some
ways to the USSR purges (mass executions).
Excellent comparisons, I view also the hope that how the USSR
dissolved, I've hoped that the perestroika method might somehow be used
internally in the Scientology top ranks, but that might be fantasy on
my part.
At least I think gettting former leaders to discuss it and get them to
air their views publicly, will cause a wider discussion of David
Miscavige's extremely authoritarian abusive reign in the last 10 years,
at least.
Chuck
zeeorger
The Professor wrote:
> I, as a Scientologist apologetic, come here in peace. I understand that
> this group has large amounts of critics in it. I'd like to see the
> other side of the story. I want to know what you folks think, and why
> you think that way.
>
Try: google + scientology ...
> Feel free to send me an e-mail, but do it in peace. I don't want to
> have a bunch of people trying to troll me.
You want our e-mail address?
Considering the tactics used by the Cult of Scientology in
recent times, I think not. Go read a few web sites.
Peace.
Z
Mark Thorson
>
> Absolutely! Church administrative procedures for finding "whys" and
> also finding "whos" and then doing ethics handlings on the "whos"
> (normally demoting them, or RPFing or offloading, or SP declaring
> them).
>
> These USSR parallels fit accurately.
>
> Marx and Hubbard were never wrong!
Here's the Wikipedia entry on "wrecking":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrecking_%28Soviet_crime%29
Sound familiar?
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
Fascinating. I used to read books a lot before Scientology, and I read
two of the Solzinitzen's "Gulag Archipeligo" books, and in 1995, the
year of my "fall" I had read the book out by Mao's doctor, exposing Mao
from someone inside close to him.
Jim Dincali, LRH's MLO, I knew he'd gone public about LRH, and truly,
it is really the role model of people in the outside world, and seeing
ex Scientologists taking on the same roles of defecting and exposing
against Scientology's authoritarianism, it is just so evident once one
gets up to understanding the outside world's lingo.
In the Scientology bubble, if one's not literate enough, one just
doesn't get the parallels, and see the writing on the wall of where one
is stuck/trapped.
Thanks, excellent excellent absolutely accurate example of an
authoritarian procedure that absolutely fits.
I will post this on the XSO chat site.
THANKS.
Best, Chuck