T.I.R. - Critical reaction: Is this Scientology?
Kevin Brady
Monica Pignotti
>
>http://www.healing-arts.org/tir/framemetapsychol.htm
Are you asking us if this is Scientology? It's not in any way connected with
the CofS, but it does obviously utilize a great deal of the tech. Sarge
(Frank)Gerbode who developed TIR (Traumatic Incident Reduction), is a
psychiatrist (one of the few!) who used to be in Scientology, was a Class XI
(IIRC) and left in the early 80s. Since that time, he has trained many people
in TIR -- some ex-scientologists who were formerly top auditors in the CofS and
some mental health professionals who have never been in Scientology -- in TIR.
I was very suspiscious of this when I first read about it, but now that I have
gotten to know several of the TIR practitioners I trust them and can say that
the ones I know are not doing anything cultic with people. If someone leaves
the CofS and still has their mind set on wanting to continue with the tech, this
is usually what I recommend to them. TIR was also part of a study conducted at
Florida State University on promising new therapies that had not been
researched. See:
http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/promising.html
This therapy is still considered "alternative" within traditional psychology
circles but they are, IMHO, the closest to going mainstream of any Scientology
offshoot I know of.
Monica Pignotti
Nelson
Nelson
"Kevin Brady" <rock...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bAsN6.15530$d26.1...@news1.wwck1.ri.home.com...
> http://www.healing-arts.org/tir/framemetapsychol.htm
>
>
Kevin Brady
"Monica Pignotti" <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:PLtN6.490$9x.1...@www.newsranger.com...
> In article <bAsN6.15530$d26.1...@news1.wwck1.ri.home.com>, Kevin Brady
says...
> >
> >http://www.healing-arts.org/tir/framemetapsychol.htm
>
> Are you asking us if this is Scientology?
I was wondering if the critics have the same objections to T.I.R. as they do
to scientology.
> It's not in any way connected with
> the CofS, but it does obviously utilize a great deal of the tech.
Yes, this seems apparent, by looking at the series and content of their
curriculum.
> Sarge
> (Frank)Gerbode who developed TIR (Traumatic Incident Reduction), is a
> psychiatrist (one of the few!) who used to be in Scientology, was a Class
XI
> (IIRC) and left in the early 80s. Since that time, he has trained many
people
> in TIR -- some ex-scientologists who were formerly top auditors in the
CofS and
> some mental health professionals who have never been in Scientology -- in
TIR.
Very cool. This was my impression, that it was tech-based, and from a very
well-trained view.
> I was very suspiscious of this when I first read about it, but now that I
have
> gotten to know several of the TIR practitioners I trust them and can say
that
> the ones I know are not doing anything cultic with people. If someone
leaves
> the CofS and still has their mind set on wanting to continue with the
tech, this
> is usually what I recommend to them. TIR was also part of a study
conducted at
> Florida State University on promising new therapies that had not been
> researched. See:
This is very exciting to me. If you have seen my posts over the last week
(which are reflective of long-held views), I have been looking for a
cosmology neutral variant of scientology, preferably one that did not have
"entities" involved in its theory in any way. This looks, so far, exactly
like what I have been talking about. I wonder why noone mentioned it to me.
Perhaps it just isn't well known.
> http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/promising.html
>
> This therapy is still considered "alternative" within traditional
psychology
> circles but they are, IMHO, the closest to going mainstream of any
Scientology
> offshoot I know of.
This gets better and better. If I could study this, become accomplished at
its use, and then return to college for a degree in social work, I could
actually make a respectable practice and not have to defend scientology
anymore. What a relief.
Kevin Brady
"Nelson" <nels...@powersurfr.com> wrote in message
news:3b0669f3$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
> It looks like someone using scientology is a psych kind of way.
> Nelson
Nelson- please. I don't care if the guy is a psychiatrist any more than I
care if Einstein was a Jew. It has nothing to do with whether or not it is
a tech variant that can be used without being squashed by the Church.
I am looking for someone to co-audit with, Nelson. T.I.R. has a
"co-facilitator" program- can you break away from your fixed ideas about
KSW and Psychs to do something like this?
Monica Pignotti
>
>This is very exciting to me. If you have seen my posts over the last week
>(which are reflective of long-held views), I have been looking for a
>cosmology neutral variant of scientology, preferably one that did not have
>"entities" involved in its theory in any way. This looks, so far, exactly
>like what I have been talking about. I wonder why noone mentioned it to me.
>Perhaps it just isn't well known.
I think it's because Sarge doesn't explicitly define himself as a "freezoner".
>This gets better and better. If I could study this, become accomplished at
>its use, and then return to college for a degree in social work, I could
>actually make a respectable practice and not have to defend scientology
>anymore. What a relief.
Some of their practitioners have done just that. It's not without controversy
but the other three therapies featured in the FSU study also have controversy.
There are regular trainings and certification programs for TIR. The website is:
http://www.tir.org
and lists practitioners and trainings.
Monica Pignotti
Ed
Kevin Brady wrote:
>
> http://www.healing-arts.org/tir/framemetapsychol.htm
What Monica says in her reply is generally right. Sarge
Gerbode has degrees from Yale and Stanford but got into Scn in the
mid-60s and had a very successful mission in Palo Alto until the shit
hit the fan in the early 80s. David Mayo and his wife Julie joined him
there after the C of $ harrassed and litigated against him enough that
he abandoned the AAC in Santa Barbara (actually Montecito which is
next to SB) -- The Mayos, Gerbodes and Gerald French started the IRM,
Institute for Research in Metapsychology in Palo Alto in 1986, I
believe. They are very okay people. Gerbode's mission in life for
decades has been to bring the useful good stuff in the tech into the
mainstream of psychotherapy. He has been doing this in a quite
conservative and careful way. Their materials seem to pretty closely
follow the tech but they have developed new terminology to replace all
the Scn jargon. As far as I know they are not at all interested in "OT
Levels" or "NOTs"; their focus is on clearing real people of the
traumas they are sitting in, as opposed to Scn's focus on gradual
indoctrination and enslavement of the people who pay enough to be
labeled "Clear".
So anyway, I'd recommend TIR for anyone who wants to get tech
training.
Ed
Kevin Brady
"Ed" <met...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3B068499...@aol.com...
Wow, the missing David Mayo and company. Looks like I am in good company if
I go with TIR. This was not the reaction I was expecting at this NG, but I
am happy to receive all of this data. This is exactly what I was looking
for.
Ed, are you the same Ed of old fza discussion board fame, who thought pretty
well of Avatar?
(I just went out and sent in a money order for delivery of "Metapsychology",
and can't wait to receive)
Paul Matulef
To me it looks much more neutral and
open to more legitmate research and
the much needed "peer-review" missing
from from a fascist group
like the one running Scientology, Inc.
If you mean "suppressive" like manner,
then you need look no further than
church managment (and some of LRH policy)
to find endless examples of questionable
practices.
EldonB123
Traumatic Incident Reduction as developed by Sarge Gerbode and Gerald French is
a variant of Dianetics. Gerbode is a psychiatrist who was once a Scientology
mission holder. He is, in my opinion, a great guy who has refined the process
and made it workable within the mainstream of mental health therapy. He has
done a lot of work with Vietnam veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress
syndrome. His work is respected by a number of credible professionals.
Kevin Brady
"EldonB123" <eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010519114144...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
Wow, the reaction to this question is far more positive than I had been
expecting.
I just read Jesse Prince's bio at LMT's site. He had not very positive
things to say about Mayo, who was part of the creation of TIR, from what I
hear, calling him a sell-out. Perhaps Mayo took the money and ran with it,
but slipped a fast one on the Church and helped set up this other
organization with good tech as a final fuck you. Who knows?
All Prince had to say about Gerbode was that he was rich.
So I emailed him, asking his opinion of TIR and Gerbode. From his bio, it
looks like, despite having been a techie, he has a very low opinion of the
tech. Hopefully he will write back to me and give a genuine opinion, and
not just generic "fuck Hubbard and anything like Hubbard" type talk.
I ordered the Metapsychology book, and am eagerly awaiting it.
BTW, it sounds like this is the same approach I have been trying to
communicate- keep the Grades, tackle the GPMs, and keep it simple, stupid,
as the basic philosophy.
I will keep you posted once I begin training with their organization, but I
suspect it will be a positive experience.
Monica Pignotti
>
>I just read Jesse Prince's bio at LMT's site. He had not very positive
>things to say about Mayo, who was part of the creation of TIR, from what I
>hear, calling him a sell-out.
That is nonsense. I knew David Mayo very well when I was on the Apollo. David
was one of the few people there who retained a sense of decency amidst all the
insanity that was going on. In my opinion, Jesse's opinion of Mayo comes from
years and years of being in the CofS atmosphere where David Mayo was considered
Enemy #1. Apparently, he still seems to be buying into Miscavige's nonsense
about Mayo being a crook.
>Perhaps Mayo took the money and ran with it,
>but slipped a fast one on the Church and helped set up this other
>organization with good tech as a final fuck you. Who knows?
No way. I knew David Mayo very well when I was in Scientology on the Apollo.
He was a man of the utmost honesty and integrity -- more than any top person
there. Later, in 1982, he was com eved, subjected to cruel and unusual
punishment (being made to run around a pole in the hot desert 11 hours per day)
and thrown out of the CofS by the slime that was in power at the time. He was
at one time the top technical person there -- the Senior CS. Keep in mind that
in spite of all the bad mouthing Scientologists later did about him, Mayo was
the person LRH personally chose to audit him when he was in the worst shape. Of
course, that was a threat to the people who were in power because of David
Mayo's potential for being the one to be chosen to take over after LRH's death.
>All Prince had to say about Gerbode was that he was rich.
Gerbode is wealthy, and he is also a very good guy with a lot of integrity. I
doubt very much that Prince knows anything at all about him, although he might
be making a lot of unwarranted assumptions.
>So I emailed him, asking his opinion of TIR and Gerbode.
I would take anything Prince says on this topic with a grain of salt,
considering his history with the CofS. He is the wrong person to get an
objective opinion from, to say the least! What I would recommend is to get to
know him yourself and draw your own conclusions. I'm sorry to hear Prince is
continuing to bad mouth them because they do not deserve this.
>From his bio, it
>looks like, despite having been a techie, he has a very low opinion of the
>tech. Hopefully he will write back to me and give a genuine opinion, and
>not just generic "fuck Hubbard and anything like Hubbard" type talk.
>I ordered the Metapsychology book, and am eagerly awaiting it.
There is also a fairly new book out by Gerald French on TIR.
>BTW, it sounds like this is the same approach I have been trying to
>communicate- keep the Grades, tackle the GPMs, and keep it simple, stupid,
>as the basic philosophy.
Yes, that's basically what he's saying, although he's not into GPMs as far as I
know. There is no OT III, no forcing of past lives on people and of course,
none of the organizational heavy ethics nonsense. If people come up with past
lives, a TIR person will run them, but they don't evaluate for people that they
should. People I know who are close to Gerbode tell me that he is a team player
and not into power trips at all -- the opposite in personality to LRH.
>I will keep you posted once I begin training with their organization, but I
>suspect it will be a positive experience.
Good. I'd like to hear how this turns out for you.
Monica Pignotti
Kevin Brady
> In article <LwxN6.15571$d26.1...@news1.wwck1.ri.home.com>, Kevin Brady
says...
> >
> >I just read Jesse Prince's bio at LMT's site. He had not very positive
> >things to say about Mayo, who was part of the creation of TIR, from what
I
> >hear, calling him a sell-out.
>
> That is nonsense. I knew David Mayo very well when I was on the Apollo.
David
> was one of the few people there who retained a sense of decency amidst all
the
> insanity that was going on. In my opinion, Jesse's opinion of Mayo comes
from
> years and years of being in the CofS atmosphere where David Mayo was
considered
> Enemy #1. Apparently, he still seems to be buying into Miscavige's
nonsense
> about Mayo being a crook.
I am aware that Mayo was held in very high regard, especially as a tech
terminal. Thing is, he did accept a settlement from the Church, when he had
them by the balls on ownership of the upper level tech. I am not saying I
wouldn't have taken the money, at that point (there were probably very
pointed threats arriving at the same time as the settlement), but it is
questionable. I am not trying to tarnish his image, just reporting what I
have heard, good and bad.
> >Perhaps Mayo took the money and ran with it,
> >but slipped a fast one on the Church and helped set up this other
> >organization with good tech as a final fuck you. Who knows?
>
> No way. I knew David Mayo very well when I was in Scientology on the
Apollo.
> He was a man of the utmost honesty and integrity -- more than any top
person
> there. Later, in 1982, he was com eved, subjected to cruel and unusual
> punishment (being made to run around a pole in the hot desert 11 hours per
day)
> and thrown out of the CofS by the slime that was in power at the time. He
was
> at one time the top technical person there -- the Senior CS. Keep in mind
that
> in spite of all the bad mouthing Scientologists later did about him, Mayo
was
> the person LRH personally chose to audit him when he was in the worst
shape. Of
> course, that was a threat to the people who were in power because of David
> Mayo's potential for being the one to be chosen to take over after LRH's
death.
I understand your point of view. When I was first coming into the FZ, I
read about him a lot, as being the person appointed to carry the Tech
Researcher Hat, and then splitting from the Church and forming the AACs. So
I was very surprised when I asked where to go to get involved with the AACs
to find out that he had settled, and departed the scene. Prince said he
last saw him driving a ferrari. Nothing wrong with ferrari's, and the guy
certainly went through enough crap to deserve one, but it shows a certain
materialism that I was not expecting. I am sure he is one of the white
hats- but everyone is accountable for their deeds, and silence speaks
volumes.
> >All Prince had to say about Gerbode was that he was rich.
>
> Gerbode is wealthy, and he is also a very good guy with a lot of
integrity. I
> doubt very much that Prince knows anything at all about him, although he
might
> be making a lot of unwarranted assumptions.
Probably. Last I heard, rich didn't mean evil.
> >So I emailed him, asking his opinion of TIR and Gerbode.
>
> I would take anything Prince says on this topic with a grain of salt,
> considering his history with the CofS. He is the wrong person to get an
> objective opinion from, to say the least! What I would recommend is to
get to
> know him yourself and draw your own conclusions. I'm sorry to hear Prince
is
> continuing to bad mouth them because they do not deserve this.
Well, it was on the LMT page, in his bio. I am sure that Minton wasn't
looking for a soft and fuzzy picture on tech terminals. Part of Minton's
self-appointed crusade requires a certain level of disdain for the tech
(supposedly, it is what killed Lisa McPherson), and therefore for tech
terminals (especially those originating tech).
> >From his bio, it
> >looks like, despite having been a techie, he has a very low opinion of
the
> >tech. Hopefully he will write back to me and give a genuine opinion, and
> >not just generic "fuck Hubbard and anything like Hubbard" type talk.
>
> >I ordered the Metapsychology book, and am eagerly awaiting it.
>
> There is also a fairly new book out by Gerald French on TIR.
I limit myself to one $35.00 book per two weeks, but I will check it out.
> >BTW, it sounds like this is the same approach I have been trying to
> >communicate- keep the Grades, tackle the GPMs, and keep it simple,
stupid,
> >as the basic philosophy.
>
> Yes, that's basically what he's saying, although he's not into GPMs as far
as I
> know.
Not true. He doesn't call it GPM handling, he calls it "Unstacking", but it
is described as taking apart identities formed by opposing goals, which
sounds like GPMs to me.
> There is no OT III, no forcing of past lives on people and of course,
> none of the organizational heavy ethics nonsense. If people come up with
past
> lives, a TIR person will run them, but they don't evaluate for people that
they
> should.
That's good. Running past lives and "entities" is not a requirement of GPM
handling. OT III was an Implant GPM, not a persons self-postulated GPM. It
sounds like he is tackling peoples self-generated identity case, and that is
what I am looking for in upper level tech.
> People I know who are close to Gerbode tell me that he is a team player
> and not into power trips at all -- the opposite in personality to LRH.
Good. That is the impression I got also. Then again, he was a Class XI or
XII auditor, a real tech terminal, where Hubbard was not, from what I
understand. Hubbard knew what he was talking about, but my understanding
was that he didn't have the hours in the chair of a XII, and had basically
left the scene to bask in his own misery/glory.
Btw, did you know Otto Roos is practicing, now, as a T.I.R. facilitator, I
think in Australia? I saw his name and my eyes bugged. Talk about your
controversial figures. Straight off the Apollo, and the pages of "Messiah
or Madman".
...^%&$^%&$ did I hear you right? Comm lagg. You were on the Apollo? You
personally knew Mayo? Wow. A brush with greatness, eh? You must've known
Roos, also, then. I've heard he was a nut, I've heard he was the only
person who would stand up to Ron, I've heard he was a disciplinarian... But
you would actually know. What say you?
> >I will keep you posted once I begin training with their organization, but
I
> >suspect it will be a positive experience.
>
> Good. I'd like to hear how this turns out for you.
Me too. I am so excited it is actually unseemly.
Monica Pignotti
Mayo went through a lot with the courts and with CofS harrassment that Jesse
Prince was involved in. I don't feel that anyone is in a position to judge him
harshly for any settlement he might have made -- particularly not Jesse Prince,
who is a relative newbie and also by his own admission, heavily involved in the
ops against David Mayo. How dare he criticize Mayo now for finally having had
enough? Newbies like Prince ought to stick around for awhile before they go
around criticizing people like Mayo and Dennis Erlich, who spent years fighting
the CofS. Who can blame them for wanting to have a life, at long last? Let's
see if Jesse even lasts half as long as Mayo or Erlich did.
I'm really not surprised, given what the CofS puts people through who get
involved in legal messes with them. Paulette Cooper also settled out of court
after years of fighting them. Does Prince want to criticize her too?
>Prince said he
>last saw him driving a ferrari. Nothing wrong with ferrari's, and the guy
>certainly went through enough crap to deserve one, but it shows a certain
>materialism that I was not expecting. I am sure he is one of the white
>hats- but everyone is accountable for their deeds, and silence speaks
>volumes.
Again, I find it outrageous that Prince would have the nerve to say these kinds
of things, given the ops against Mayo he himself, by his own admission, was
involved in.
>> >All Prince had to say about Gerbode was that he was rich.
>>
>> Gerbode is wealthy, and he is also a very good guy with a lot of
>integrity. I
>> doubt very much that Prince knows anything at all about him, although he
>might
>> be making a lot of unwarranted assumptions.
>
>Probably. Last I heard, rich didn't mean evil.
>
>> >So I emailed him, asking his opinion of TIR and Gerbode.
>>
>> I would take anything Prince says on this topic with a grain of salt,
>> considering his history with the CofS. He is the wrong person to get an
>> objective opinion from, to say the least! What I would recommend is to
>get to
>> know him yourself and draw your own conclusions. I'm sorry to hear Prince
>is
>> continuing to bad mouth them because they do not deserve this.
>
>Well, it was on the LMT page, in his bio.
I didn't see it when I looked at it. What I saw was Prince, in an affidavit,
admitting to having been in charge of ops against Mayo. I'd like to hear more
details about that.
>I am sure that Minton wasn't
>looking for a soft and fuzzy picture on tech terminals. Part of Minton's
>self-appointed crusade requires a certain level of disdain for the tech
>(supposedly, it is what killed Lisa McPherson), and therefore for tech
>terminals (especially those originating tech).
I don't see this so much as an issue about the tech, so much as it is an issue
about people who are relatively new at going up against the CofS criticizing
people who settle out of court. They criticized Dennis Erlich for this too.
Let's just see if Prince can last half as long as they did.
>> >From his bio, it
>> >looks like, despite having been a techie, he has a very low opinion of
>the
>> >tech. Hopefully he will write back to me and give a genuine opinion, and
>> >not just generic "fuck Hubbard and anything like Hubbard" type talk.
>>
>> >I ordered the Metapsychology book, and am eagerly awaiting it.
>>
>> There is also a fairly new book out by Gerald French on TIR.
>
>I limit myself to one $35.00 book per two weeks, but I will check it out.
>
>> >BTW, it sounds like this is the same approach I have been trying to
>> >communicate- keep the Grades, tackle the GPMs, and keep it simple,
>stupid,
>> >as the basic philosophy.
>>
>> Yes, that's basically what he's saying, although he's not into GPMs as far
>as I
>> know.
>
>Not true. He doesn't call it GPM handling, he calls it "Unstacking", but it
>is described as taking apart identities formed by opposing goals, which
>sounds like GPMs to me.
I'm not familiar with that part of what he does, but I don't know a lot about
metapsychology - I know more about TIR.
>> There is no OT III, no forcing of past lives on people and of course,
>> none of the organizational heavy ethics nonsense. If people come up with
>past
>> lives, a TIR person will run them, but they don't evaluate for people that
>they
>> should.
>
>That's good. Running past lives and "entities" is not a requirement of GPM
>handling. OT III was an Implant GPM, not a persons self-postulated GPM. It
>sounds like he is tackling peoples self-generated identity case, and that is
>what I am looking for in upper level tech.
>
>> People I know who are close to Gerbode tell me that he is a team player
>> and not into power trips at all -- the opposite in personality to LRH.
>
>Good. That is the impression I got also. Then again, he was a Class XI or
>XII auditor, a real tech terminal, where Hubbard was not, from what I
>understand. Hubbard knew what he was talking about, but my understanding
>was that he didn't have the hours in the chair of a XII, and had basically
>left the scene to bask in his own misery/glory.
>
>Btw, did you know Otto Roos is practicing, now, as a T.I.R. facilitator, I
>think in Australia? I saw his name and my eyes bugged. Talk about your
>controversial figures. Straight off the Apollo, and the pages of "Messiah
>or Madman".
Yes, he was the big "villan" at the time I was on the Apollo. He had just been
booted out in 1971, and he was the villan then like David Mayo is today.
>...^%&$^%&$ did I hear you right? Comm lagg. You were on the Apollo? You
>personally knew Mayo? Wow. A brush with greatness, eh? You must've known
>Roos, also, then. I've heard he was a nut, I've heard he was the only
>person who would stand up to Ron, I've heard he was a disciplinarian... But
>you would actually know. What say you?
Yes, I knew Mayo well, but Roos was before my time. I came on board in 1973 and
yes, Roos had quite a reputation for being very tough. Of course, I never knew
him and he was labelled the "bad guy" by the time I got there but I have it on
good authority that the stories about him were true.
Monica Pignotti
Kevin Brady
Monica writ:
> >> I would take anything Prince says on this topic with a grain of salt,
> >> considering his history with the CofS. He is the wrong person to get
an
> >> objective opinion from, to say the least! What I would recommend is to
> >get to
> >> know him yourself and draw your own conclusions. I'm sorry to hear
Prince
> >is
> >> continuing to bad mouth them because they do not deserve this.
Kevin writ:
> >Well, it was on the LMT page, in his bio.
>
> I didn't see it when I looked at it. What I saw was Prince, in an
affidavit,
> admitting to having been in charge of ops against Mayo. I'd like to hear
more
> details about that.
Jesse Prince: "...A new NOTs course was issued, and a mad panic ensued to
train auditors and case supervisors to deliver the new OT levels
internationally. I was sent down to Flag to be one of the people that
trained the auditors and case supervisors, and this was a very daunting
task. David Mayo was the person who introduced NOTs to everyone, and he was
traveling back and forth from Int (Gilman Hot Springs) to Flag (Clearwater)
every month. He would instruct us to
train the students to audit in a certain way, but then when he came back the
next month to check on how everyone was doing, it would all change. Every
time David came the "tech" changed, so what an auditor learned in March
would change by April.
I had a lot of trouble training the NOTs auditors. Some auditors grumbled
that Mayo was making up the NOTs tech as he went along. Others were upset
because they thought Mayo had a hidden data line to LRH. In Scientology, a
"hidden data line" means someone is getting info from LRH that isn't written
in a policy, bulletin or tape. In fact, as I would learn when I was promoted
to RTC three years later, Mayo was making it up as he went along because he
was the main author of the NOTs tech. It was also true that he had a hidden
data line to LRH because Mayo had been auditing LRH on NOTs before anyone
else knew anything about it. Mayo's name was on every bulletin concerning
NOTs, and rightly so, because he wrote the bulletins.
Later, in 1982, LRH got the idea that Mayo was sympathetic to the mission
holders, who were trying to take over Scientology, or so LRH thought. So LRH
ordered that Mayo be taken off post as Senior Case Supervisor
International - Senior C/S Int, that is. He ordered him and all the Senior
C/S Int staff onto the Running Program, had them all labeled security risks,
and finally had them all declared Suppressive. (Mayo opened his own auditing
center, known as the
Advanced Ability Center, in Santa Barbara after he was booted out by LRH. I
was one of the people in charge of sending plants into the AAC to make sure
it was totally destroyed, and we succeeded in destroying Mayo and his
center.)
RTC brought a RICO suit against Mayo, because he had AAC centers all over
the world and Mayo's centers were making a lot more money than the
Scientology orgs were. The RICO charges were based on the idea that Mayo had
stolen the NOTs materials. Mayo's defense was that he had been the primary
author of the materials anyway. The suit went on and on, and it was becoming
clear that Mayo
was going to win the suit. So finally RTC offered Mayo a hefty settlement in
return for keeping his mouth closed about being the main author of the NOTs
materials. The last I heard of Mayo, he was driving a Ferrari."
<snip for brevity, getting to Metapsychology and its "curriculum">
Kevin writ:
> >> >BTW, it sounds like this is the same approach I have been trying to
> >> >communicate- keep the Grades, tackle the GPMs, and keep it simple,
> >stupid,
> >> >as the basic philosophy.
Monica writ:
> >> Yes, that's basically what he's saying, although he's not into GPMs as
far
> >as I
> >> know.
> >
> >Not true. He doesn't call it GPM handling, he calls it "Unstacking", but
it
> >is described as taking apart identities formed by opposing goals, which
> >sounds like GPMs to me.
>
> I'm not familiar with that part of what he does, but I don't know a lot
about
> metapsychology - I know more about TIR.
The following is a quote from www.healing-arts.org/tir , the homepage of
Metapsychology
"The metapsychological approach to inspecting the structure of the mind
called "the Curriculum" is divided into sections which allow viewers to
proceed at a comfortable and non-threatening pace. The curriculum is
composed of the following sections:
The Introduction to Viewing Section
In order to maximize their time and money, it is important for prospective
viewers to understand exactly what to do in the course of a session. For
this reason, we take time to provide a brief orientation to the principles
and terminology of the techniques so that the viewers will feel comfortable
and confident in session.
The Stress Reduction Session
Anyone who has decided to embark on the journey of self-discovery, on
whatever level, has concerns and issues of immediate importance. Since it is
easier to confront what one is already confronting, the viewing journey
begins with those specific individual concerns and problems on which the
viewer's attention is currently focused, clearing away the mental debris
that blocks the view ahead. This form of work may include resolving the
effects of past traumas using a technique called Traumatic Incident
Reduction (TIR). That completed, the Curriculum turns to areas of a more
universal nature in the human experience.
The Help Section
After the underbrush has been cleared away and an individual feels
comfortable with viewing skills, the facilitator begins to direct the
viewer's attention to issues of help and control. This is critical, because
one cannot progress if one will not allow oneself to be helped. And help
requires giving a certain amount of control to the helper. Once these issues
are confronted and resolved, the viewer and facilitator can work smoothly as
a team, and can begin to penetrate deeply into the mind's mechanisms.
The Recall Enhancement Section
After removing any obstacles residing in the present moment, the next step
is to build up a tolerance for confronting the past. The facilitator directs
the viewer to locate pleasant moments in the past. Finding non-traumatic
incidents helps to delineate areas of past trauma more clearly, thus
enabling viewers to see that the rough spots were contained in discrete
moments of time, and not strung together in one lifelong traumatic episode.
The Communication Section
Viewers deal next with any emotional issues they may have concerning
communication with others. Often, problems with communication stem not from
a lack of expertise but from past trauma associated with failed efforts to
communicate effectively. Viewers must at least feel it is safe to
communicate with their facilitator, otherwise they will not be able to relax
and concentrate on viewing.
The Resolution Section
Frequently, "solutions" applied to problems create new and different
problems -- often worse than the original ones. When an individual tries to
make problems "go away" instead of confronting them head on, the problem is
never actually resolved. This section, which enables viewers to discover the
difference between a solution and a resolution, provides the key to breaking
this vicious cycle.
The Reconciliation Section
The source of guilt and hostility lies mainly on the "charge" or repressed,
unfulfilled intentions, connected to misdeeds one commits or witnesses, and
the withholding of the truths about these actions (or inactions) from
oneself and others. Confronting these misdeeds and withholds, and regaining
the ability to take responsibility and feel forgiveness, results in a major
sense of reconciliation. In this section, viewers restore the integrity and
personal power that has been inhibited by guilt, justification, blame, and
the fear of harming others.
The Resilience Section
Change happens frequently in life, and it is often sudden and unexpected.
People who are unable to communicate, cannot resolve problems, and commit
frequent misdeeds are continually upset by life's changes. In this section,
viewers confront unwanted or unexpected departures from their expectations.
The end result of this process is an increase in their resilience, when
faced with the upsets of life.
The Traumatic Incident Reduction (TIR) Section
See the TIR FAQs for a more detailed explanation of TIR theory and practice
Once the outer layer of mental disturbances has been discharged, viewers
find themselves able to confront the heavy traumatic incidents that have so
strongly affected their lives. These often occur in sequences of related
incidents, in which later incidents "feed on" earlier ones. Traumatic
incidents, and the sequences which follow them, are the source of fears,
compulsions, and inhibitions, and can involve drugs, accidents, operations,
shocks, abuse, or severe loss. The goal of TIR is to discover the root
traumas which hold all the other incidents in place and discharge them once
and for all, so they will no longer hold any hidden power over a viewer's
life or future decisions.
The Rightness Section
The earlier part of the Curriculum looked a disturbances that affect present
life; the Traumatic Incident Reduction section released and resolved
long-suppressed feelings and intentions. Now belief systems and cognitive
disturbances, previously too deeply buried, become available for
examination. Regardless of misconceptions or false information, we always
think that our beliefs are right -- otherwise, we wouldn't believe them. And
we are quite dedicated to certain beliefs; anyone who believes differently
must be wrong. Reason alone cannot change such rigidly fixed beliefs,
because they are held in place by force -- our unwillingness to confront
painful and confusing episodes in our lives. But a viewer who has handled
the major traumas in life can now see these "fixed ideas" for what they are,
and can change them at will.
The Unstacking Section
At the very core of the network of beliefs which compose one's mental
structure are "stacks" of opposing goals and purposes which, because of
their intricate opposition, fix one into an "identity" and thereby both
reduce the number of roles we are capable of playing and debar us from our
true identity. By viewing the way in which these conceptual oppositions were
originally constructed, one regains the power to "unstack" them and become
one's true self. This is the turning point for most viewers, the point at
which they find themselves separate from their own mental constructs, back
in control of their lives, and able to actualize whatever potential they
have."
This is exactly the structure of the Bridge that I had envisioned as being
the parts worth keeping. I find it utterly fascinating that I chanced upon
this page at the point when I was brimming with this concept. Not claiming
any OT ability, but it was pretty wild to just stumble onto this the way I
did.
Sorry about the length of this post, perhaps I should have broken it into
two sections. Oh well, I gone and done it now.
I find this Metapsychology utterly fascinating, and am totally boggled that
it has been sitting here waiting for me while I stumbled around calling its
name and spelling it out.
Funny, really
Monica Pignotti
>
>In article <SkzN6.30$r4...@www.newsranger.com>, pign...@worldnet.att.net
>says...
>
>>
>> No way. I knew David Mayo very well when I was in Scientology on the Apollo.
>> He was a man of the utmost honesty and integrity -- more than any top person
>> there. Later, in 1982, he was com eved, subjected to cruel and unusual
>> punishment (being made to run around a pole in the hot desert 11 hours per day)
>> and thrown out of the CofS by the slime that was in power at the time. He was
>> at one time the top technical person there -- the Senior CS. Keep in mind that
>> in spite of all the bad mouthing Scientologists later did about him, Mayo was
>> the person LRH personally chose to audit him when he was in the worst shape. Of
>> course, that was a threat to the people who were in power because of David
>> Mayo's potential for being the one to be chosen to take over after LRH's death.
>
>how this can be true, running around a pole for 11!! hours a day. I
>would say, after one hour you're finished. And in the hot sun, even with
>enough water you can't do this very long. Have you ever seen anyone
>running?
>Is this mind control so strong that someone can do all this running
>without collapsing?
I wasn't personally involved in the running program, but have spoken with many
people who were and yes, it's true, people ran around that pole for 11 hours per
day. Stacy Brooks had to do this as well, so she can tell you all about it.
It's amazing what people can do under such conditions. It was not without
severe consequences for many of these people, though, who had severe injuries
and some even lost teeth because of the mineral depletion. I'm sure many people
did collapse, off and on, but they had to go right back out there and do it all
over again. Of course, there are people who put themselves through some pretty
rough physical torture for the sport of it. Ever watch the Eco Challenge? I'd
say what those people had to go through is comparable to this. The human body
can withstand a lot.
Monica Pignotti
Monica Pignotti
I find it very strange that he leaves out just who gave LRH that idea. He seems
to be leaving Miscavige's name out of this altogether in relation to Mayo,
whereas according to many reports from ex-CofS I've read about and spoken with,
Miscavige and his cronies were behind the booting out of David Mayo and his
staff. See, for example, the book, LRH: Messiah or Madman for details about
this from several people who were booted out then and very reliable sources.
LRH didn't just suddenly get this idea about Mayo out of thin air. Miscavige
got to LRH and made him paranoid about Mayo. It's kind of like the Survivor
show -- get anyone who is a threat to your winning, booted out. Miscavige ended
up the final Scientology "Survivor" and LRH's heir. He didn't get there by
accident without a strategy and that strategy included getting rid of Mayo, as
well as others -- anyone who would not follow his orders without question.
>So LRH
>ordered that Mayo be taken off post as Senior Case Supervisor
>International - Senior C/S Int, that is. He ordered him and all the Senior
>C/S Int staff onto the Running Program, had them all labeled security risks,
>and finally had them all declared Suppressive.
And who put that bug in LRH's ear? Jesse seems to be strangely silent on this
issue.
>(Mayo opened his own auditing
>center, known as the
>Advanced Ability Center, in Santa Barbara after he was booted out by LRH. I
>was one of the people in charge of sending plants into the AAC to make sure
>it was totally destroyed, and we succeeded in destroying Mayo and his
>center.)
Right, this is where he admits this. I'd like to hear more details about
exactly what they did to Mayo. I already knew from people who were on Mayo's
staff that plants were being sent in and ops run against them. One person who
worked there told me drugs were planted on his property. In the early to mid
90s I know that Mayo had another smaller organization he was running from the
Dominican Republic, separate from Gerbode. He was constantly harrassed there as
well and was reporting this on ARS as recently as 1996 how he was getting
stopped at customs, hauled in and even put in prison once under trumped up
charges.
>RTC brought a RICO suit against Mayo, because he had AAC centers all over
>the world and Mayo's centers were making a lot more money than the
>Scientology orgs were.
Although I realize Mayo was a threat to them, I find it very difficult to
believe that they made more than the CofS. Mayo's fees were a fraction of what
the CofS charged.
>The RICO charges were based on the idea that Mayo had
>stolen the NOTs materials. Mayo's defense was that he had been the primary
>author of the materials anyway. The suit went on and on, and it was becoming
>clear that Mayo
>was going to win the suit. So finally RTC offered Mayo a hefty settlement in
>return for keeping his mouth closed about being the main author of the NOTs
>materials. The last I heard of Mayo, he was driving a Ferrari."
If he is, he certainly deserves it for all the trouble CofS put him through.
But I have to question how Jesse would know the details of this? There seems to
be some discrepancy in the time line here. Jesse got out in 1993 and the
settlement with Mayo to silence him was not made until long after he was out, in
1996. He was no longer privy to inside information at that time. We actually
don't know the details of the settlement that Mayo made to keep silent about all
this. As recently as 1996, Mayo and his wife, Julie were still posting to ARS.
These posts are archived somewhere and get reposted here from time to time. One
day David & Julie Mayo were posting on ARS and the next day (sometime in 1996)
we found out he was silenced by a court agreement that nobody knows the details
of. The settlement was about more than just keeping silent about the NOTS --
Mayo stopped talking and posting altogether.
It's not the first time this has happened, nor will it be the last. It always
amazes me how newbies are so quick to be judgmental of people who have been put
through the ringer by Scientology and then settle out of court after years of
torment. Dennis Erlich was criticized for this as well, by people who had spent
only a fraction of the time that he had, going up against the CofS. I've seen
many people come and go over the years and it wouldn't surprise me in the least
to see some of today's most vocal critics signing similar agreements in the
future, just like the people they are now criticizing, that today they're
swearing they'd never sign. Let's just wait and see who is still here going up
against the CofS 5-10 years from now and who is driving a Ferrari. That's just
the way it is. People put in their time, do what they can to go up against
Scientology but at some point they realize that they need to have a life apart
from all this and are worn down by all the harrassment, and I really cannot
blame them.
><snip for brevity, getting to Metapsychology and its "curriculum">
>
<snip>
>This is exactly the structure of the Bridge that I had envisioned as being
>the parts worth keeping. I find it utterly fascinating that I chanced upon
>this page at the point when I was brimming with this concept. Not claiming
>any OT ability, but it was pretty wild to just stumble onto this the way I
>did.
>
>Sorry about the length of this post, perhaps I should have broken it into
>two sections. Oh well, I gone and done it now.
Thanks for the info. That's interesting, as I didn't know about this part of
it.
>I find this Metapsychology utterly fascinating, and am totally boggled that
>it has been sitting here waiting for me while I stumbled around calling its
>name and spelling it out.
If people want to do the tech, I think that this is the safest place to do it.
Monica Pignotti
Ed
Yes.
Ed
think you have to be Sea Org for Class X-XII, and I really doubt Sarge
would have wanted to get into the insanity of Flag training. He did
the SHSBC at Saint Hill in the 1960s, possibly when LRH was still
there but I suspect later. He has a beautiful set of typed notes on
the SHSBC tapes.
Ed
JimDBB
>From: Monica Pignotti pign...@worldnet.att.net
snipped;>That is nonsense. I knew David Mayo very well when I was on the
Apollo.
>David
>was one of the few people there who retained a sense of decency amidst all
>the
>insanity that was going on. In my opinion, Jesse's opinion of Mayo comes
>from
>years and years of being in the CofS atmosphere where David Mayo was
considered Enemy #1. Apparently, he still seems to be buying into Miscavige's
nonsense about Mayo being a crook.
We are overlooking one big thing about David Mayo. He is the guy who hammered
the BT (body thetan) garbage into place. He is the one who kept finding more
and more BTs...sleeping Bts, then drugged BTs, then the NOTs BTs and so on, ad
nauseum.n If he had left earlier scientologists might have been spared much of
this insanity.
Jimdbb
Diane Richardson
wrote:
[snip]
>RTC brought a RICO suit against Mayo, because he had AAC centers all over
>the world and Mayo's centers were making a lot more money than the
>Scientology orgs were. The RICO charges were based on the idea that Mayo had
>stolen the NOTs materials. Mayo's defense was that he had been the primary
>author of the materials anyway. The suit went on and on, and it was becoming
>clear that Mayo
>was going to win the suit. So finally RTC offered Mayo a hefty settlement in
>return for keeping his mouth closed about being the main author of the NOTs
>materials. The last I heard of Mayo, he was driving a Ferrari."
That's not the reason Mayo settled. For one thing, I sincerely doubt
Mayo would have ever won a lawsuit based on the fact that he authored
the NOTS stuff. Mayo produced that material as a "work for hire,"
since he was employed by the CoS and wrote the material as part of his
job.
There's a factor that Jesse Prince failed to include in his little
story that explains a lot, though.
Sarge Gerbode was bankrolling David Mayo's legal battles against the
CoS which, of course, went on for years and cost a great deal of
money.
The way I understand it, the CoS made a deal with Sarge Gerbode.
Gerbode agreed to stop funding Mayo's litigation against the CoS if
the CoS would allow Gerbode to sell his TIR therapy in peace. Without
Gerbode's financial backing, Mayo was left swinging in the breeze.
Hasn't anyone wondered why the most litigious cult in the world seems
to look the other way when it comes to Gerbode's obvious knockoff of
the "tech"?
I don't know enough details of the incident to make any definitive
judgment, but it sure does look to me that if anyone "sold out" in
this affair, it was Sarge Gerbode, who abandoned support of his
long-time friend David Mayo for the chance to be free of scientology
harrassment to peddle his TIR without cult interference.
Diane Richardson
ref...@bway.net
Monica Pignotti
I don't believe that. True, David Mayo did write the NOTS material, but don't
forget it was from the auditing he was doing on LRH and I can assure people that
LRH was not just some passive PC. Mayo wasn't operating in a vacuum. If Mayo
hadn't been there, LRH would have called someone else to audit him -- no doubt,
another highly indoctrinated Class XII auditor who would have followed along the
same lines with LRH's guidance. Mayo wrote the NOTS but I don't believe he came
up with this all by himself. I think the belief system of OTIII and LRH's being
a very instructive PC had a lot to do with it and he would have lead anyone who
was in Mayo's place in the same direction, insistence on finding more BTs on
him.
Mayo was booted out because he was a threat to Miscavige, as were others. If he
were running Scientology today, there would be the same belief system with
regards to OT3 and NOTS, but I would bet that it would not be nearly as an
abusive organization with Mayo as the leader, rather than Miscavige. Mayo was
opposed to the heavy ethics and the RPF and I think he would have ultimately
found a way to get rid of it. On the Apollo once, LRH got pissed off at Mayo
and ordered him to the RPF. Mayo flat out refused to go! This was unheard of,
but he got away with it and LRH backed off. SO members who could flaunt an LRH
order in his face and get away with it were few and far between, but that's what
Mayo did.
Monica Pignotti
Ed
I believe Sarge Gerbode designed Metapsychology and TIR
carefully with the intent not to use any terminology or material that
the "church" could sue them for. Unlike most freezoners, they wanted
to start from scratch with new materials aimed at people whose
orientation was mainstream psych, as opposed to either
ex-Scientologists or anyone else who might be wanting to have a cult
experience. TIR did not want to be associated with freezoners or
ex-Scns because they did not want the stigma of a Scn/LRH past to
spoil their ability to connect with more mainstream practitioners.
Read "Metapsychology". Aside from a brief mention at the beginning of
LRH and Scn, you would never know from anything in the book that it
had anything whatever to do with that subject. Tech-trained Scns will
immediately see that some of the "basics" are restated, but the
"basics" are expanded into a deeper philosophical context. There's
nothing remotely close to a copyright issue because neither the ideas
nor the words have a resemblance to LRH. This of course is what LRH
and the "church" always wanted "squirrels" to do: don't call it
LRH/Scn, don't claim any association with LRH/Scn, go off and
disappear and don't bother us. Metapsychology/TIR were happy to do
exactly that, but the fact that both they and C of $ agree on that
does not mean that they came to a legal settlement of some sort. I've
never heard that any such happened, but maybe someone closer to the
source would know.
Ed
> Diane Richardson
> ref...@bway.net
Monica Pignotti
> I believe Sarge Gerbode designed Metapsychology and TIR
>carefully with the intent not to use any terminology or material that
>the "church" could sue them for.
True, but it is instantly recognizable by anyone with knowledge of Scn tech.
The first time I read an article on TIR in the Family Therapy Networker, I
nearly fell out of my chair when I saw what was very close to R3-R Dianetic
commands with a few words changed. This is a professional magazine I have a
subscription to and the last place I expected to read what I read. I was quite
upset when I read this and wrote a Letter to the Editor which was published,
saying that this was from Dianetics and Scientology. Later, I did have contact
with some of the top TIR practitioners and am reassured that they are not doing
anything harmful to people. However, I do think that people have a right to
know what the background is.
>Unlike most freezoners, they wanted
>to start from scratch with new materials aimed at people whose
>orientation was mainstream psych, as opposed to either
>ex-Scientologists or anyone else who might be wanting to have a cult
>experience. TIR did not want to be associated with freezoners or
>ex-Scns because they did not want the stigma of a Scn/LRH past to
>spoil their ability to connect with more mainstream practitioners.
>Read "Metapsychology". Aside from a brief mention at the beginning of
>LRH and Scn, you would never know from anything in the book that it
>had anything whatever to do with that subject.
Are you kidding? I would know immediately, as would anyone with even passing
familiarity with Scientology tech. I would be willing to bet that most critics
here who are not ex-Scientologists and have been around any length of time would
immediately recognize it as well. It's quite obvious and changing the words
doesn't hide that.
>Tech-trained Scns will
>immediately see that some of the "basics" are restated, but the
>"basics" are expanded into a deeper philosophical context. There's
>nothing remotely close to a copyright issue because neither the ideas
>nor the words have a resemblance to LRH.
There have been superficial changes in the language, but many of the ideas have
been kept, such as the Auditor's Code and TRs, just to name a few. He does, I
agree, put it into a deeper philosophical context by revealing the sources LRH
borrowed from (to put it nicely!) when he came up with the tech. The words are
different but many of the ideas are the same, although they have done away with
the more controversial and bizarre ones. Although it would protect them from
copyright issues, it is easily identified as Scientology tech. Keep in mind
that the law can be misused to harrass people, even if there is no basis for it
and that Scientologists are masters at this.
>This of course is what LRH
>and the "church" always wanted "squirrels" to do: don't call it
>LRH/Scn, don't claim any association with LRH/Scn, go off and
>disappear and don't bother us.
That wasn't the attitude they had towards Metapsychology in the 1980s, that's
for sure. No freezoner ever wants to "bother" the CofS. The CofS bothers them
and they bothered Sarge for years.
>Metapsychology/TIR were happy to do
>exactly that, but the fact that both they and C of $ agree on that
>does not mean that they came to a legal settlement of some sort. I've
>never heard that any such happened, but maybe someone closer to the
>source would know.
I have heard that there was indeed a legal settlement that has enabled him to
continue to practice TIR/Metapsychology without harrassment. All I know is that
this agreement exists. The details of that settlement are secret so we'll never
know what the terms are and so anything I would say on this would be pure
speculation. I have no idea if the situation with David Mayo has any part of it
or what he had to agree to. I do know that when Metapsychology/TIR was first
beginning to be used, there was a great deal of harrassment from the CofS and
this has stopped and I think that the settlement has had everything to do with
this.
Monica Pignotti
Kevin Brady
"Diane Richardson" <ref...@bway.net> wrote in message
news:3b07b236...@news1.bway.net...
> On Sat, 19 May 2001 21:49:40 GMT, "Kevin Brady" <rock...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >RTC brought a RICO suit against Mayo, because he had AAC centers all over
> >the world and Mayo's centers were making a lot more money than the
> >Scientology orgs were. The RICO charges were based on the idea that Mayo
had
> >stolen the NOTs materials. Mayo's defense was that he had been the
primary
> >author of the materials anyway. The suit went on and on, and it was
becoming
> >clear that Mayo
> >was going to win the suit. So finally RTC offered Mayo a hefty settlement
in
> >return for keeping his mouth closed about being the main author of the
NOTs
> >materials. The last I heard of Mayo, he was driving a Ferrari."
>
> That's not the reason Mayo settled. For one thing, I sincerely doubt
> Mayo would have ever won a lawsuit based on the fact that he authored
> the NOTS stuff. Mayo produced that material as a "work for hire,"
> since he was employed by the CoS and wrote the material as part of his
> job.
This "work for hire" point stinks of legal smellbaggery. I know that it
probably would qualify as work for hire, but it is still smellbaggery.
> There's a factor that Jesse Prince failed to include in his little
> story that explains a lot, though.
Yes, and I appreciate you making that clarification. It vindicates Mayo, in
my eyes.
> Sarge Gerbode was bankrolling David Mayo's legal battles against the
> CoS which, of course, went on for years and cost a great deal of
> money.
>
> The way I understand it, the CoS made a deal with Sarge Gerbode.
> Gerbode agreed to stop funding Mayo's litigation against the CoS if
> the CoS would allow Gerbode to sell his TIR therapy in peace. Without
> Gerbode's financial backing, Mayo was left swinging in the breeze.
Perhaps Mayo was aware of the hopelessness of the case, and Gerbode and he
got together to noodle a way to deliver the tech without interference from
the Church, and Mayo wasn't so much swinging in the breeze as surfing and
sailing in the breeze?
> Hasn't anyone wondered why the most litigious cult in the world seems
> to look the other way when it comes to Gerbode's obvious knockoff of
> the "tech"?
I did wonder, but this makes a bit of sense.
> I don't know enough details of the incident to make any definitive
> judgment, but it sure does look to me that if anyone "sold out" in
> this affair, it was Sarge Gerbode, who abandoned support of his
> long-time friend David Mayo for the chance to be free of scientology
> harrassment to peddle his TIR without cult interference.
Well, if that is what he did, he certainly was following the greatest good
for the greatest number of dynamics, and I am sure that Mayo would see this,
eventually, if he was not in agreement with it from the beginning.
Who knows. The only people who can say for sure probably aren't talking.
Kevin Brady
> I believe Sarge Gerbode designed Metapsychology and TIR
> carefully with the intent not to use any terminology or material that
> the "church" could sue them for. Unlike most freezoners, they wanted
> to start from scratch with new materials aimed at people whose
> orientation was mainstream psych, as opposed to either
> ex-Scientologists or anyone else who might be wanting to have a cult
> experience. TIR did not want to be associated with freezoners or
> ex-Scns because they did not want the stigma of a Scn/LRH past to
> spoil their ability to connect with more mainstream practitioners.
Yes, this seems right, although it is sad that they wouldn't want an
affiliation with the FreeZone. However, if they are getting the show on the
road, and it seems that they are, perhaps they made the right call.
> Read "Metapsychology". Aside from a brief mention at the beginning of
> LRH and Scn, you would never know from anything in the book that it
> had anything whatever to do with that subject. Tech-trained Scns will
> immediately see that some of the "basics" are restated, but the
> "basics" are expanded into a deeper philosophical context.
This is accurate, to a point. I see some "basics" restated, but I also see
the most fundamental part of scientology restated as well, GPMs, and
"Unstacking" are almost identical. I have not read all of Metapsychology,
only the first chapter, but I have ordered it and it is on the way. If it
is possible for there to be a deeper philosophical context than GPMs and
their origin, I will be fascinated to read about it. The "Curriculum" of
Metapsychology appears to end after Unstacking, which is fine by me, but if
there is more, I want to know about it.
> There's
> nothing remotely close to a copyright issue because neither the ideas
> nor the words have a resemblance to LRH.
There is more than a passing resemblance at every step of the way along
their "Curriculum", but I am happy about this. I agree that there is no
copyright issue, which is a very smart move. As to the ideas, I think it
would be difficult to connect them LEGALLY to scientology, but as a FZ
scnist, I can say that it wasn't a big leap for me! However, I will not
make much more comment here, for fear that I will become a liability to a
group which clearly (tm) is one that I wish to support.
> This of course is what LRH
> and the "church" always wanted "squirrels" to do: don't call it
> LRH/Scn, don't claim any association with LRH/Scn, go off and
> disappear and don't bother us.
Actually, they consider psych's to be squirrels, also, or implanters, which
amounts to the same thing, as that means they are using "Black Dianetics",
which is supposedly a squirrel application. If you are in the field of the
mind, the Church considers you to either be with them, in which case you
will immediately apply KSW to your operation, or against them, in which
case, watch your ass.
> Metapsychology/TIR were happy to do
> exactly that, but the fact that both they and C of $ agree on that
> does not mean that they came to a legal settlement of some sort. I've
> never heard that any such happened, but maybe someone closer to the
> source would know.
Perhaps. My accounts are all second hand at best.
Perry Scott
: Sarge Gerbode was bankrolling David Mayo's legal battles against the
: CoS which, of course, went on for years and cost a great deal of
: money.
:
: The way I understand it, the CoS made a deal with Sarge Gerbode.
: Gerbode agreed to stop funding Mayo's litigation against the CoS if
: the CoS would allow Gerbode to sell his TIR therapy in peace. Without
: Gerbode's financial backing, Mayo was left swinging in the breeze.
:
: Hasn't anyone wondered why the most litigious cult in the world seems
: to look the other way when it comes to Gerbode's obvious knockoff of
: the "tech"?
One inconsistency with this theory is that Gerbode's continued well-
being depends on Mayo staying alive. Serge is smarter than that.
Also, both Gerbode and Mayo were attacked by CofS, Inc. The Gerbode
lawsuit (IIRC late 80s or early 90s) was distinguished by Helena Kobrin
achieving a sanction for barratry, so we know that Gerbode was attacked
with the usual gusto we see from CofS, Inc attack lawyers.
TIR is an obvious knockoff of Dianetics. IIRC there was a never-to-be-
repeated special license granted to Gerbode for his use of the tech. I
think Gerbode obtained it before Scientology really took off and Hubbard
needed the money. (sorry for the vagueness - I didn't know there would
be test on this material.)
Gerbode and Mayo finally forced peace upon CofS, Inc. While it would
Rather than engage in conspiracy theories, I'd rather just say that
back down, it won't be forthcoming.
be interesting to see what kind of leverage it takes to make the CofS
: Diane Richardson
Perry Scott
Co$ Escapee
Monica Pignotti
>
>One inconsistency with this theory is that Gerbode's continued well-
>being depends on Mayo staying alive. Serge is smarter than that.
I'm puzzled as to how you would draw this conclusion. Sarge has many people who
were never connected with the CofS who have trained in TIR. He is not in the
least dependent upon Mayo or upon ex-Scientologists for anything. This may have
been the case their first few years out of Scientology when Mayo would be more
likely to attract ex-Scientologists, but it most definitely is not the case
today. Gerbode, as a psychiatrist, has much more credibility with the
professional mental health community than Mayo, with no mental health
credentials, could ever hope to have. It doesn't matter to the mental health
community that he was a Class XII and the top tech terminal in Scientology -- if
anything, that would work against him.
>Also, both Gerbode and Mayo were attacked by CofS, Inc. The Gerbode
>lawsuit (IIRC late 80s or early 90s) was distinguished by Helena Kobrin
>achieving a sanction for barratry, so we know that Gerbode was attacked
>with the usual gusto we see from CofS, Inc attack lawyers.
That's true -- Gerbode was heavily attacked by the CofS in the 80s, but this has
now stopped since the settlement agreement.
>TIR is an obvious knockoff of Dianetics. IIRC there was a never-to-be-
>repeated special license granted to Gerbode for his use of the tech.
As Ed pointed out, if he remains free of Scientology trademarks and terms, there
is little the CofS can do about this. It wasn't a "license" -- it was a court
settlement of some kind. Ideas cannot be copyrighted and no license is needed,
no matter how obvious it is what he's doing.
>I
>think Gerbode obtained it before Scientology really took off and Hubbard
>needed the money. (sorry for the vagueness - I didn't know there would
>be test on this material.)
Before Scientology really took off? I'm not following what you're saying here.
Do you mean long before, like in the 50s or 60s? If so, that's not correct
because Gerbode did not get into Scientology until around 1970 and while he was
a member there would not have been any question of his going off and doing his
own thing. The agreement was made sometime in the 1990s, long after LRH's
death.
Monica Pignotti
Perry Scott
Monica Pignotti <pign...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
: In article <tgiqta6...@corp.supernews.com>, Perry Scott says...
:>
:>One inconsistency with this theory is that Gerbode's continued well-
:>being depends on Mayo staying alive. Serge is smarter than that.
Monica responds:
: I'm puzzled as to how you would draw this conclusion. Sarge has many
: people who were never connected with the CofS who have trained in TIR.
I was commenting on Diane Richardson's theory, which was snipped:
Diane said:
> The way I understand it, the CoS made a deal with Sarge Gerbode.
> Gerbode agreed to stop funding Mayo's litigation against the CoS if
> the CoS would allow Gerbode to sell his TIR therapy in peace. Without
> Gerbode's financial backing, Mayo was left swinging in the breeze.
IF Diane's theory is correct
(CoS made a deal with Gerbode to stop supporting Mayo),
then if Mayo ever became a non-threat,
then CoS could renege on the deal and again harrass Gerbode.
I hope that's clearer. Sarge wouldn't settle for a handful of wind.
:>TIR is an obvious knockoff of Dianetics. IIRC there was a never-to-be-
:>repeated special license granted to Gerbode for his use of the tech.
: As Ed pointed out, if he remains free of Scientology trademarks and
: terms, there is little the CofS can do about this. It wasn't a
: "license" -- it was a court settlement of some kind. Ideas cannot be
: copyrighted and no license is needed, no matter how obvious it is what
: he's doing.
It has been awhile since I read the Gerbode legal papers. Ed is correct
that ideas cannot be copyrighted. I vaguely remember an RTC issue with
copyrighted material that Gerbode was using. There had to be a basis
for RTC to file the lawsuit.
:>I
:>think Gerbode obtained it before Scientology really took off and Hubbard
:>needed the money. (sorry for the vagueness - I didn't know there would
:>be test on this material.)
: Before Scientology really took off? I'm not following what you're
: saying here. Do you mean long before, like in the 50s or 60s? If so,
: that's not correct because Gerbode did not get into Scientology until
: around 1970 and while he was a member there would not have been any
: question of his going off and doing his own thing. The agreement was
: made sometime in the 1990s, long after LRH's death.
This was before my time and you were there, so I'll take your word for
it. I'm may be confusing (dang reactive mind!) Gerbode with someone
else from the 50s, back in the early days of Scientology when Hubbard
was poor and doing anything he could to pay the bills.
: Monica Pignotti
Perry Scott
Co$ Escapee
Kevin Brady
> This was before my time and you were there, so I'll take your word for
> it. I'm may be confusing (dang reactive mind!) Gerbode with someone
> else from the 50s, back in the early days of Scientology when Hubbard
> was poor and doing anything he could to pay the bills.
Purcell, I think. Lee Purcell?
Perry Scott
: <snip>
I think that's the name - the guy in Wichita? I need to retread my
reading of "LRH: Messiah or Madman?"
Thanks, Kevin.
Perry Scott
Co$ Escapee
Kevin Brady
"Perry Scott" <pe...@ez0.ezlink.com> wrote in message
news:tgnr281...@corp.supernews.com...
Most welcome.
>
>
> Perry Scott
> Co$ Escapee