Teresa Summers
Teresa
I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first time
I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be told
in some areas.
1) Stacy Brooks did want to go to Texas and ask Dell to drop the
LMT case. She blames Ken Dandar for screwing up the case so badly
that she and Bob and the LMT were dragged into it. Neither she nor
Bob can see that any of their actions have contributed to the mess
that Scientology is creating. Scientology is evil. They are
manipulating the court system as they always do, this is true.
However, Bob and Stacy's actions have created a lot of problems and
Scientology, being opportunists, have succeeded in taking their
blunders and using them to botch up the case.
Stacy once explained to me that she thought of the LMT as a gekko
(sp?) and the Lisa case was the tail. She wanted to get rid of the
tail. She did not want Bob contributing money to the case any more.
She told me about three months ago that she wanted to secretly contact
Dell and convince her to drop the case. Secretly because neither Bob
nor Ken could know. Someone told Jeff that Stacy was planning to do
this and Jeff became very upset. Stacy outright lied to him and told
him she had no plans of doing that. She was though. She did try, too.
She called Dell and said she wanted to visit her...not telling Dell
the reason. Dell, however, called Ken and told him Stacy wanted to
come visit and Ken said....tell her NO. That was the end of that.
However, she did manage to get Bob to stop funding the case. Which in
the end may be a good thing. Lucky for all Ken cannot be manipulated
by Stacy, though sadly Bob can be and is.
I still have no idea why Stacy felt she had any right at all to try to
jump in and manipulate the case, except for the money thing.
2) I was told on September 6 in a meeting in Stacy's office with
all members of the LMT attending, that "as of two days ago, the LMT
has been dissolved." We were all told that we were now independent
contractors. Two reasons were cited: no money and protecting Stacy
from having to testify as to LMT money. I, personally, was very
disturbed when I learned that hundreds of thousands of dollars had
been donated to the LMT and given directly to Bob and then he turned
around and told us there was not enough money to pay our salaries.
Fine. In addition, in a follow up depostion Stacy plead the 5th to a
question as to had she ever been involved with money laundering.
Ok. Whatever. I don't have the whole story on this stuff and when I
ask question of Stacy I get --- myob. Ok. That's it for me. I am
not going to put my neck on the line and be dragged into these
depositions and support her if she is doing things that are not on the
up-and-up. Or at least if she can't offer explanations.
3) I declined to continue working for the LMT as an independent
contractor.
Since I left I have received calls from many people in the US and in
other countries. I apologize to all of you for allowing myself to
only get Stacy's side of things. I believe Stacy has misled me and
outright lied on numerous occasions. I once told her that I would
back her up until I myself saw her lying or manipulating. That day
has come. I can no longer support her.
The bottom line for Stacy is her desperate bid to hang on to Bob
Minton. She told me herself I don't know how many times that she
hated working at the LMT and was only doing it for Bob. Well, in the
end I saw how true that was.
I apologize to Patricia Greenway and Ursula Caberta for any role I had
in harming them or their reputations after the catastrophic Leipzig
trip.
As for Bob Minton, well I don't know Bob that well. I think he is a
good guy at heart who has done a lot of good things for a lot of good
people. I think he needs to take a break for about a month...away
from Stacy and everyone else, and take care of himself a little bit.
I think he dosen't care a whit what I think.
I still thank him for the opportunity to work at the LMT and help
people. Also, I apologize to him for getting mad at him on the phone
during our final conversation and screaming at him. I don't like
behaving that way. I don't very often.
I am writing this because I think you all deserve to know the truth.
I am sure you will now hear what a liar I am. Liar, hateful liar.
I'm signing out now. This has all been too crazy and I've done my
part to help. On to different and better things.
Teresa Summers
ptsc
>2) I was told on September 6 in a meeting in Stacy's office with
>all members of the LMT attending, that "as of two days ago, the LMT
>has been dissolved."
Does anyone know what "dissolved" means in this context and if it can have a
valid meaning with the Florida Corporate Records database indicating the
following?
The last noted event in the corporate record is 11/14/2000 and was a
reinstatement following an accidental administrative dissolution last year.
If the LMT has been dissolved it certainly isn't reflected in the (usually very
up to date) Florida Corporate Records database.
Now, either this poster (whether it is Teresa Summers or not) or the person she
is quoting is either lying, mistaken, or else the Florida Corporate Records
database is incorrect, or else there is some kind of meaning of the word
"dissolved" that wouldn't cause a change in Florida's Corporate Records
Database.
Florida Profit
LISA MCPHERSON TRUST, INC.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRINCIPAL ADDRESS
33 N. FT HARRISON AVE
CLEARWATER FL 33755
Changed 11/14/2000
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAILING ADDRESS
33 N. FT HARRISON AVE
CLEARWATER FL 33755
Changed 11/14/2000
Document Number
P99000094885 FEI Number
582505249 Date Filed
10/21/1999
State
FL Status
ACTIVE Effective Date
11/01/1999
Last Event
REINSTATEMENT Event Date Filed
11/14/2000 Event Effective Date
NONE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Agent
Name & Address
BROOKS, STACY
33 NORTH FORT HARRISON AVE
CLEARWATER FL 33755
Address Changed: 02/19/2001
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Officer/Director Detail Name & Address Title
BROOKS, STACY
33 N FORT HARRISON AVE
CLEARWATER FL 33755 P
PIERCE, DUNCAN
1 BOWER ST
CLAREMONT NH 03743 ST
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Annual Reports Report Year Filed Date Intangible Tax
2000 11/14/2000
2001 02/19/2001
xganon
>On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:28:15 -0400, Teresa <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>If the LMT has been dissolved it certainly isn't reflected in the (usually very
>up to date) Florida Corporate Records database.
>
>Now, either this poster (whether it is Teresa Summers or not) or the person she
>is quoting is either lying, mistaken, or else the Florida Corporate Records
>database is incorrect, or else there is some kind of meaning of the word
>
---
This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com
Come visit the newest xganon server http://www.xganon.org providing
rights and freedom related news.
---
Colette Marine
<tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
> realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first time
> I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
> is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be told
> in some areas.
I think if this is a true and accurate picture, it's pretty
shitty, but (because obviously the COS will make much hay
of this) it doesn't change my feelings about the larger
picture: ultimately, I oppose the abuses and deceptions of
the Church of Scientology. I did so before the LMT existed,
and I will continue to do so if it goes away. I did so
before I knew Bob Minton existed, and I will do so no matter
what Bob, Stacy, Jesse or anyone else involved in the LMT
do now or in the future.
Ultimately, the LMT is a wrong target. It's that simple.
I hope I'm not the only one who will choose to respond in
this way.
--
colette d. marine c...@nwu.edu
"I suppose that all introspective people must some day ask
themselves the question, 'How am I like college foootball?'"
-- jay...@spambait.guild.org
xganon
>On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:28:15 -0400, Teresa <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>If the LMT has been dissolved it certainly isn't reflected in the (usually very
>up to date) Florida Corporate Records database.
>
You assume the LMT has filed papers with the state.
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"Colette Marine" <c...@northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:cdm-091001...@quandong-94-186114.nuts.nwu.edu...
> In article <vov5stkhpdkom8p7q...@4ax.com>, Teresa
> <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
> > realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first
> > time I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to
> > me. There is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth
> > needs to be told in some areas.
>
> I think if this is a true and accurate picture, it's pretty
> shitty, but (because obviously the COS will make much hay
> of this) it doesn't change my feelings about the larger
> picture: ultimately, I oppose the abuses and deceptions of
> the Church of Scientology. I did so before the LMT existed,
> and I will continue to do so if it goes away. I did so
> before I knew Bob Minton existed, and I will do so no matter
> what Bob, Stacy, Jesse or anyone else involved in the LMT
> do now or in the future.
>
> Ultimately, the LMT is a wrong target. It's that simple.
>
> I hope I'm not the only one who will choose to respond in
> this way.
Actually, this is my feeling and committment too. I think the LMT
has been a valuable tool, but it's certainly the wrong target. The
CofS and OSA thought that if they could get rid of Dennis Erlich they
could win, and they found out that ars was still here and people were
still vocal after he left. Now they think if only they can eliminate
the LMT that again, we will all shut up and go away, but they are
wrong.
Again.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4 with clam cluster, Official Wiccan Chaplain
ARSCC(wdne)
"Hubbard is a dead fat fraud who started a "religion" to make money,
and Miscavige is a wheezing dwarf who
makes insane outbursts about public buggery in court. There are no
OTs , and Xenu rules." That should be good for -25 stats points,
right OSA?
(find out what this means at www.clambake.org )
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barb
You aren't alone.
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
http://members.home.net/bwarr1/index.htm
SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATE $CIENTOLOGY? Sign the petition at
http://www4.PetitionOnline.com/cofs1/
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser
ptsc
>On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 11:53:55 -0400, ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT alias DOT net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:28:15 -0400, Teresa <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>If the LMT has been dissolved it certainly isn't reflected in the (usually very
>>up to date) Florida Corporate Records database.
>You assume the LMT has filed papers with the state.
That, or the State dissolving it, is the only way you CAN dissolve a
corporation, since it is the State which is the ultimate arbiter of its status.
ptsc
JimDBB
>From: Teresa tsum1...@aol.com
>Date: 10/9/01 9:28 AM Central Daylight Time
snipped:>I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
>realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first time
>I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
>is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be told
>in some areas.
I, for one, don't have a clue as to what is going on there and I don't care
though I hate to see this sort of squabbling amongst critics. and, of coures, I
would hate to see the LMT destroyed.
I wonder, Teresa, what the wisdom is of airing all of this in public. We have
no way of knowing everything that has transpired nor should we know. The LMT
is a private organization providing a valuable service. The scientology cult
is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to destroy the LMT. It
seems that they won't have to spend much more as LMTers are doing a good job
of this themselves.
JImdbb
Mike O'Connor
> I think truth needs to be told
> in some areas.
Theresa, you have a PGP key. [ID: 0xA167E9CB] Please send a PGP-signed
post saying this was you. Thanks!
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Mike O'Connor <http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>
Tigger
Why don't you quote the rest of the Theresa Summers post?
Dissolved would mean, no longer exists in the form it once had, I would
think. Like sugar, which is in a different form when it is dissolved in
water.
Tigger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I DON'T GIVE THEM HELL. I JUST TELL THEM THE TRUTH AND THEY THINK IT'S
HELL."'
Harry S. Truman (GIVE 'EM HELL, HARRY)
U. S. President
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
xganon
>>>If the LMT has been dissolved it certainly isn't reflected in the (usually very
>>>up to date) Florida Corporate Records database.
>
>>You assume the LMT has filed papers with the state.
>
>That, or the State dissolving it, is the only way you CAN dissolve a
>corporation, since it is the State which is the ultimate arbiter of its status.
>
>ptsc
Based on what
yduzitmatter
The COS wil always be wrong about who the target is because they
cannot
believe that critics do not have a leader, that critics are not
organized into a cohesive group or that critics actually think for
themselves. As long as the COS is unable to think outside its own
little box it will always hit the wrong arget. The thing is they only
have Hubbard Drek to guide them and policy is policy so they will
not be able to step outside thier box. Fools can't even think
for them selves.
Kim P
ptsc
>Based on what
Based on the law, moron, F.S. Chapter 607.
ptsc
Tigger
the LMT for making fools of you while you won't forgive COS for making
fools of scientologists.
So you shouldn't be surprised that Scientologists forgive Hubbard for
making fools of scientologists while condeming critics for allowing LMT
to make fools of critics.
Tigger
BTW does anyone know why I can't access the LMT ABOUT THE TRUST AND
ABOUT THE STAFF anymore?
Colette Marine
boobook...@webtv.net (Tigger) wrote:
> ptsc:
>
> Why don't you quote the rest of the Theresa Summers post?
>
> Dissolved would mean, no longer exists in the form it once had, I would
> think. Like sugar, which is in a different form when it is dissolved in
> water.
"Dissolved," when it comes to a legal entity has specific
legal meanings. He was asking about those, which seems
like an entirely legitimate question.
Colette Marine
boobook...@webtv.net (Tigger) wrote:
> Your responses are exactly what I expected. Apparently you will forgive
> the LMT for making fools of you while you won't forgive COS for making
> fools of scientologists.
Tigger, here's what you don't seem to understand: that is
a fallacious analogy because we are not "members" of the
Lisa McPherson Trust. What they do has no bearing on me.
If they do something stupid, they have made fools of
themselves, not of me. I don't feel any need to forgive or
not forgive them because they've done nothing to me. That
doesn't mean I make no judgements about what they do. It
simply means that forgiveness is an utterly irrelevant
concept here. It also means that, in the grand scheme of
things, this is *all* irrelevant distraction from what
really matters: the abusive and deceptive practices of
the Church of Scientology. Don't fall into the same trap
that the COS does of thinking of the critics as an
organization with Minton and the LMT at the head. It
never was true and it still isn't. The LMT and the people
who make up the LMT *can't* betray me because I'm not
a part of them in the first place.
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"yduzitmatter" <yduzit...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3BC331CD...@sympatico.ca...
Which is why they are stupid cult morons. We should be thankful for
that, otherwise they'd be even more dangerous than they are.
And they are already plenty dangerous, even though stupid.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4 with clam cluster, Official Wiccan Chaplain
ARSCC(wdne)
"Hubbard is a dead fat fraud who started a "religion" to make money,
and Miscavige is a wheezing dwarf who
makes insane outbursts about public buggery in court. There are no
OTs , and Xenu rules." That should be good for -25 stats points,
right OSA?
(find out what this means at www.clambake.org )
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Tigger
Re: Teresa Summers
Group: alt.religion.scientology Date: Tue, Oct 9, 2001, 12:45pm From:
c...@northwestern.edu (Colette Marine)
wrote:
>In article
><24848-3B...@storefull-213.iap
>.bryant.webtv.net>,
> boobook...@webtv.net (Tigger)
> wrote:
>>ptsc:
>>Why don't you quote the rest of the
>> Theresa Summers post?
>>Dissolved would mean, no longer exists
>> in the form it once had, I would think.
>> Like sugar, which is in a different form
>> when it is dissolved in water.
>"Dissolved," when it comes to a legal
> entity has specific legal meanings. He
> was asking about those, which seems
> like an entirely legitimate question.
Well, gee. how many posters have been telling me that entirely
legitimate questions about the LMT are entirely not allowed because it
is none of my business? :-)
Of course it was an entirely legetimate question. I was wondering if
the LMT was "dissolving" only in Clearwater and would emerge from the
ashes in another form in another city, state or country.
My question about his not quoting the entire post was legetimate too,
but do you think he will answer that? He picked the least damaging
thing in that post about which to ask a legetimate question. Does he
not have any curiosity about the statements Threasa Holmes made or did
he already know they were true?
Tigger
--
colette d. marine c...@nwu.edu
"I suppose that all introspective people must some day ask themselves
the question, 'How am I like college foootball?'"
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sven10077
'effective' at their tasks, but the tasks they can do are very narrow. They
are incapable of adapting to changes in the situation on the assembly line
without having 'human supervision'.
Thankfully their human supervision are too stupid to see that unlike their
bullshit factory the Critical Community is an ever adapting organization.
It takes a lot less effort for us to throw a monkey wrench into the assembly
line than it does for them to constantly reconfigure itnto cope. That is
why in the end the critics will win as long as we have the resolve to keep
sabotaging the plant.
regards,
sven
"Starshadow" <starsh...@home.com> wrote in message
news:s7Iw7.20980$JN.7...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
Unknown
Whether the details you wrote are true or not (and I certainly don't
know) whoring any information entrusted to you by your friends (and I
would consider that to be anyone who is actually trying to fight this
evil cult whether you personally like them or not) in a forum
monitored by OSA is not only incredibly immature and selfish of you
but absolutely unforgivable.
Heather Bennett
On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:28:15 -0400, Teresa <tsum1...@aol.com>
wrote:
>Dear All,
Icee
Nessie.
"Colette Marine" <c...@northwestern.edu> schreef in bericht
news:cdm-091001...@quandong-94-186114.nuts.nwu.edu...
Rod Keller
: Despicable betrayal of the trust given to you by your friends, Teresa.
:
: Whether the details you wrote are true or not (and I certainly don't
: know) whoring any information entrusted to you by your friends (and I
: would consider that to be anyone who is actually trying to fight this
: evil cult whether you personally like them or not) in a forum
: monitored by OSA is not only incredibly immature and selfish of you
: but absolutely unforgivable.
While I agree it's immature and selfish, it seems to me that everybody
down in Clearwater has been under intense pressure, as you know better
than I do. I find myself in admiration of the people who have held up as
well as they have. It makes me sad to see such a strange betrayal, but I
think maybe Theresa needs the help of the LMT as much as the people who
came to the LMT needed Theresa. I know the first question I have is "why
on earth did you do this?" but after a little reflection the better
question is "how can we help?" That's what the Trust is all about, really.
--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher / Black Hat #1
Expert of the Toilet / CWPD Mouthpiece / Shelly Thompson in Drag
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Vision of Destruction
Bigot of Mystery / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully / Killer Rod
xganon
>Despicable betrayal of the trust given to you by your friends, Teresa.
>
>Whether the details you wrote are true or not (and I certainly don't
>know) whoring any information entrusted to you by your friends (and I
>would consider that to be anyone who is actually trying to fight this
>evil cult whether you personally like them or not) in a forum
>monitored by OSA is not only incredibly immature and selfish of you
>but absolutely unforgivable.
>
>Heather Bennett
P.S. and if anyone knows what whoring is - I do...just ask
Mark Bunker, my current husband...etc etc... ad infinitum....
H.B.
ultram...@webtv.net
When Theresa called Stacy on her reprehensible treatment of others in
Leipzig,it was just a matter of time.
Follow the Brooks money trail for the next chapter. As Ive said before
to others dismay. The critic movement was better off before the LMT.
consider:
Scientology can now gloat that in fact the LMT enriched Brooks-she never
cared in the first place.
Brooks also is responsible for ruining all ties to european officials.
She justified her reprehensible behaviour because of her bitterness
being relegated to the role of paid mistress.
She thinks things are bad now? Wait till Scientology finishes with her.
Everyone got fucked financially except her,by design. Good Riddance.
Hope you dont choke on the money......
Mike
ptsc
>Heather Bennett () wrote:
>: Despicable betrayal of the trust given to you by your friends, Teresa.
>: Whether the details you wrote are true or not (and I certainly don't
>: know) whoring any information entrusted to you by your friends (and I
>: would consider that to be anyone who is actually trying to fight this
>: evil cult whether you personally like them or not) in a forum
>: monitored by OSA is not only incredibly immature and selfish of you
>: but absolutely unforgivable.
>While I agree it's immature and selfish, it seems to me that everybody
>down in Clearwater has been under intense pressure, as you know better
>than I do. I find myself in admiration of the people who have held up as
>well as they have. It makes me sad to see such a strange betrayal, but I
>think maybe Theresa needs the help of the LMT as much as the people who
>came to the LMT needed Theresa. I know the first question I have is "why
>on earth did you do this?" but after a little reflection the better
>question is "how can we help?" That's what the Trust is all about, really.
If there's any truth to the allegations it's certainly a matter for public
concern and I'm glad it was brought to the surface.
Someone here is not telling us the truth, and this harms public trust.
ptsc
Tigger
a.k.a. Brooks did???? So you think it's all right for Brooks to lie,
trash reputations, con everyone including Bob Minton and damage the Lisa
McPherson case??????
Unbelievable. You say it's not as bad as the COS because scientologists
are fools, and can't think for themselves and critics are individuals
and think for themselves???????
God save us. That makes it even worse.
All of us should have been asking questions a long time ago and maybe
this could have been fixed before Brooks was able to do all this damage
and the LMT had to be "dissolved". But instead you trashed anyone who
dared to object to what Brooks and Minton were doing and called them
liars, OSA whores, agent provoceteurs, etc. And you are advocates of
"critical thinking skills" and "freedom of speech"????? Surely, you
don't know the meaning of the words????
And Jim DBB, I am so disappointed in you, I could cry. You dare to
chastise Teresa for telling the truth. She should be applauded for
having the courage to stand up to Brooks and Minton.
Well all I have left to say is:
Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it. I hope you
all have long memories and will never let ANYONE CON you again.
Tigger
Tom Padgett
is "probably accurate
but pretty shitty. ...but they were the wrong target."...[from the Co$'s
wrath.]
This is disturbing in several areas of concern:
1. The Co$, OSA, and the RTC will rejoice.
2. Posters like U-mike, DEEP THROAT, Tigger,
and other anonymous persons will view this as
a gloating opportunity to say "we told you so...
na nah nan na na....we're right and all of you were WRONG gullable
fools!"
3. With the LMT (allegedly) dissolved, the AFF,
LJREF, FOM, NEIRR, WFI, and other cult watchdog groups will have to beef
up their security defenses as the LMT is/was a heat seeking missile
target and thus a deflection mechanism in the war against $cieno's
cultic internet and real world cultic terrorism effort to overtake
mainstream mental health practices
for profit.......and fun.
4. Ptsc will have to find new work. <Just joking
Rob :)>
5. Clearwater is in further danger.......as The Hon. Gabe Cazares FIRST
warned way back in the mid-70s.
GOD BLESS AMERICA and save it's children
PLEASE!!! And GOD bless all nations with the
courage to confront terrorism whether it be
Islam based or Hubbard based.
Tom Padgett
dissolving of the LMT is true, then the international terrorist group
known as Dianetics - The Modern Science of Mental Health (a.k.a
$cientology,) has yet another notch on it's evil black (PR) belt IMHO.
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Tom Padgett
U-mike:
WTH were you right about? .....assuming right
means correct in this context....rather "right" vs. left in more
tratitional politics.
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Zinj
nym DOT alias DOT net> says...
In the 5 years I've watched and spoken to Bob, I've seen a couple of
'mistakes' he's made.
My experience has been, that with one or two exceptions, he's recognized
those mistakes, and used them to his advantage.
For example: His recognition of an ingrained and arrogant 'Critic
Community' led him to accept the first and smug objections to 'the new
boy in town' and rather than accede to their social status, create his
own 'group' (henseforth called the LMT) using money... to lure their more
acceptable people like Jeff Jacobsen, away and create a 'group' willing
to use his own PR.
At the same time, his 'critics' polarized into a group surrounding a
number of people more interested in being known as the 'critics of
record' than in actually working against Scientology. (after all... we've
done this for years! You should respect us!)
People like unusual, marina, bill and Dev were certain of their own
universal value, and considered newboy Bob to be at best a wannabe
critic.
Part II follows
Zinj
Zinj
zinj...@yahoo.com says...
<snip>
> Part II follows
>
> Zinj
Part II
Bob gained a group willing to show 'solidarity' with him, something
totally impossible with a 'herd of cats'.
Got it?
Over 40 years it's been too dangerous to oppose Scientology for an
individual.
To create a 'group' would invite an immediate attack....
Which would be successful.
Bob was something new in the critic community; someone willing to put his
money where his mouth was, and enough money to survive at least 3 or 4
punches to the mouth.
Thank you Bob!
There was *never* a problem in making a 'group'. The problem was, you
couldn't be a public group or Scientology would crush you.
Bob had enough money to try. He did. He still is. I like Bob :)
I repeat though... it's quite probably a good idea that the LMT and the
Lisa civil case discover their chasm.
They really are'nt related... well, except that the Hubbardite Cult
considers killing its members to be a religious ritual....
Zinj
Tom Padgett
of you who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it. I hope you
all have long memories and will never
let ANYONE CON you again."
Tigger:
Actually this is a VERY profound, enriching, and sound statement. I
support it totally. But
I am fuzzy on few innuendos here that probably
needs further clarification.
a. which CON are you referring to on this NG?
The Co$ or the LMT?
b. please elaborate on the "past" and I urge you to take some time and
detail the victims of the
CON jobs here.
c. if a victim of a cult is standing before a judge
in civil or criminal proceedings in a court of law in the USA, how would
you want their lawyers to present and articulate the CON JOB you speak
of?
d. please define "long memories" applied her. It
was my understanding that many website holders were trying to
memorialize (forever) this CON job in prolific detail! Andreas' stands
out as #1, but In particultar wasn't it Cheryl S, who suggested a "war
memorial" direction?
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Deana M. Holmes
news:gu66stss4cftra8hu...@4ax.com:
> Despicable betrayal of the trust given to you by your friends, Teresa.
Heather, you should talk. Or, rather, are you merely the voice for Stacy?
Deana
mir...@sonic.net
Deana M. Holmes
If Teresa Summers tells the truth, are you people who have been supporting
Stacy and the LMT to the hilt going to reconsider? Or are you going to
continue to Kiss Stacy's Ass?
If you don't even think about what is happening here, then you deserve the
shitloads of opprobrium that should rightfully be heaped upon your head.
Stacy has taken advantage of people, has used people and has not had the
best interests of the LMT *or* of the Lisa McPherson family *or* of any of
the critics save herself. She is a very selfish woman.
You people wouldn't listen to me, or to others. So listen to a woman who
has been directly harmed by Stacy's ongoing crap circus.
Deana
mir...@sonic.net
Teresa <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote in
news:vov5stkhpdkom8p7q...@4ax.com:
> Dear All,
>
> I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
> realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first time
> I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
> is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be told
> in some areas.
>
Zinj
mir...@nospamsonic.net says...
Deana, you should talk... or are you merely the voice of Bill? Wasn't it
him who gave you the mysterious 'tip'?
Don't be silly mirele, you are exactly the same kind of tool that lex
is....
(just more arrogant)
Zinj
Zinj
zinj...@yahoo.com says...
Let me put it this way. Bill has been posting anonymously for ages as
'unusual'.
That's a long way from saying he didn't post using other nicks:
Reality Check
Concerned Critic
Miscreant Critic
et al
I'd ask Bill Mcglaughlin to publicly announce what anonymous nicks he's
used....
Since he seems to use them regularly
Zinj
ethercat
(Tigger) wrote in
<24848-3B...@storefull-213.iap.bryant.webtv.net>:
>ptsc:
>
>Why don't you quote the rest of the Theresa Summers post?
It is good netiquette, and customary in usenet, to quote only the
portion of the message to which you are responding.
n e t i q u e t t e - look it up sometime.
|_____|__| |\__/,| (\
|__|_____| _.|o o |_ ) )
|------------------------| ethercat |------------------(((---(((--------|
|_____|_____|___ http://www.cafepress.com/pickets ____|_____|_____|_____|
|__|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|__|
|__ http://alley.ethercat.com/malloffire _|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|
|__|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|__|
Elizabeth Ann Cox
individually repugnant. In addition, it shows a distinct lack of judgment
if Teresa truly wants to "bring down the cult." It is so nice of her to do
their work for them. However, I also sense a woman behind the curtain,
pulling the strings...
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
aka, Bunnyann
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
<Heather Bennett> wrote in message
news:gu66stss4cftra8hu...@4ax.com...
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"Deana M. Holmes" <mir...@nospamsonic.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9135B2DCFC1B...@205.232.34.12...
> So.
>
> If Teresa Summers tells the truth, are you people who have been
> supporting Stacy and the LMT to the hilt going to reconsider? Or
> are you going to continue to Kiss Stacy's Ass?
Not being one of the ones who "support LMT to the hilt" nor one who
thinks they are villain of the year, I've never kissed anyone's ass.
Personally, I'm glad they've been there. They've obviously done
some good work, no matter what the truth about Stacy is, or the truth
about Bob is. Neither are "leaders" as ars is and always has been a
"herd of cats". Some people thought they were and are the best thing
since sliced bread, and others could care less. Some people support
them and trust them, others are just glad they're part of the herd of
cats in their own way, and still others think they are akin to
demons--or at least extremely flawed human beings.
Me, I don't know Stacy at all. I don't know what her character is.
I would hope she isn't a total self-serving bitch, but if she turns
out to be, it won't stop me from being a critic and doing what I can
to bring the abuses of the cult to an end.
> If you don't even think about what is happening here, then you
> deserve the shitloads of opprobrium that should rightfully be
> heaped upon your head. Stacy has taken advantage of people, has
> used people and has not had the best interests of the LMT *or* of
> the Lisa McPherson family *or* of any of the critics save herself.
> She is a very selfish woman.
This may be true. It may only be the judgement of people who don't
like her. Me, I prefer some proof one way or another before I make
any such judgement. Even so, she's done some good for some people. I
hope she hasn't bolloxed the family's lawsuit, but if she has it will
come out in the wash. But Deana, I don't happen to be of the belief
that just because someone is out of the cult, they are automatically
raised to sainthood. Some of us critics are nice people. Some are
wonderful people. Some are people with big weaknesses, and some are
likely morally not the kinds of people I'd prefer to socialize with.
This is Real Life.
> You people wouldn't listen to me, or to others. So listen to a
> woman who has been directly harmed by Stacy's ongoing crap circus.
It may be the real Teresa. It may not be. I'm still in "wait and see"
mode. I think most of the people who wouldn't listen to you wanted
some sort of proof. Sure there are some who dismissed this outright.
But many more critics have just asked for proof and so far no one has
presented any. This isn't the same as "not listening to you". As for
"others" some of them are well known shrill and loud whiners, whose
posts haven't the same weight as yours do. Proof is yet to be
forthcoming.
But again I say, if the LMT is biting the dust, so what? I will still
be here. So will most of the rest of us. The rest of us do need to
know the truth, certainly. But without the LMT, the work will go on.
If the allegations are true, then I hope they will be proven one way
or another. And I hope Lisa's family won't be hurt. Some people will
be, for sure. Some people were very upset and hurt when Dennis quit
the fight. But there will be people to carry on.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4 with clam cluster, Official Wiccan Chaplain
ARSCC(wdne)
"Hubbard is a dead fat fraud who started a "religion" to make money,
and Miscavige is a wheezing dwarf who
makes insane outbursts about public buggery in court. There are no
OTs , and Xenu rules." That should be good for -25 stats points,
right OSA?
(find out what this means at www.clambake.org )
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Elizabeth Ann Cox
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
aka, Bunnyann
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
Deana M. Holmes <mir...@nospamsonic.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9135B22CDEFF...@205.232.34.12...
Elizabeth Ann Cox
people who post to, or simply lurk and read, this NG.
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
aka, Bunnyann
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
Colette Marine <c...@northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:cdm-091001...@quandong-94-186114.nuts.nwu.edu...
> In article <vov5stkhpdkom8p7q...@4ax.com>, Teresa
> <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
> > realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first time
> > I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
> > is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be told
> > in some areas.
>
Elizabeth Ann Cox
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
aka, Bunnyann
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
Tom Padgett <tommy...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:24846-3BC...@storefull-213.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Elizabeth Ann Cox
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
aka, Bunnyann
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
Tigger <boobook...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4884-3BC...@storefull-216.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Elizabeth Ann Cox
involved in the LMT rather than the Trust. Those actions so clearly speak
of their true feelings and beliefs.
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
aka, Bunnyann
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
Tom Padgett <tommy...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:24846-3BC...@storefull-213.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
xganon
Did NONE of you read that excellent post by RVY?
Well READ IT AGAIN !
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9o6b9901vth%40drn.newsguy.com&output=gplain
The Real No User.
Elizabeth Ann Cox
safety from Chigger and UM.
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
aka, Bunnyann
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
Icee <ic...@planet.nl> wrote in message news:3bc3...@news2.lightlink.com...
Elizabeth Ann Cox
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
aka, Bunnyann
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
xganon <nob...@xganon.com> wrote in message
news:81368f95b83fc6d8...@xganon.com...
ptsc
>ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT alias DOT net> wrote:
>>Now, either this poster (whether it is Teresa Summers or not) or the person
>>she is quoting is either lying, mistaken, or else the Florida Corporate Records
>>database is incorrect, or else there is some kind of meaning of the word
>>"dissolved" that wouldn't cause a change in Florida's Corporate Records
>>Database.
>Your conclusions are way off. Teresa said they had been briefed by Stacy Brooks
>that the LMT had been dissolved. It is not Teresa who claimed this to have
>been so.
I didn't reach any conclusions. Are you fucking stupid or what, you ignorant
cocksucker?
Here it is again, this time take out a dictionary and do some word-clearing.
>>Now, either this poster (whether it is Teresa Summers or not) or the person
>>she is quoting is either lying, mistaken, or else the Florida Corporate Records
>>database is incorrect, or else there is some kind of meaning of the word
>>"dissolved" that wouldn't cause a change in Florida's Corporate Records
>>Database.
ptsc
Aokay [David G. Bryce]
the language) laymen/women often use words with specific meaning in
law to mean something else. For example, "bankrupt" to lay person
could mean anything from "went out of business" to "there's no money"
or almost anything else. Dissolved could mean the same thing. Or, how
about kaput, reorganized, changed, etc., etc.?
Not that this has much to with the news, so-called, or whatever the
non-authenticated post is.
dgb
On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:45:33 -0500, c...@northwestern.edu (Colette
Marine) wrote:
>In article <24848-3B...@storefull-213.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
>boobook...@webtv.net (Tigger) wrote:
>
>> ptsc:
>>
>> Why don't you quote the rest of the Theresa Summers post?
>>
>> Dissolved would mean, no longer exists in the form it once had, I would
>> think. Like sugar, which is in a different form when it is dissolved in
>> water.
>
>"Dissolved," when it comes to a legal entity has specific
>legal meanings. He was asking about those, which seems
>like an entirely legitimate question.
David G. Bryce
65 Loon Lake Drive
P. O. Box 1002
Gravenhurst, ON P1P 1V3
Telephone: 705-684-8087
Stamp out terrorism!!
JimDBB
>From: tommy...@webtv.net (Tom Padgett)
>Date: 10/9/01 6:08 PM Central Daylight Time
>Fact: The cult of the Co$ wiped CAN out of existence. If this alleged
>dissolving of the LMT is true, then the international terrorist group
>known as Dianetics - The Modern Science of Mental Health (a.k.a
>$cientology,) has yet another notch on it's evil black (PR) belt IMHO.
Let me add this. How many of you out there have actually contributed money and
whatever else you could to the LMT? Bob can't do it alone. To survive the LMT
has got to have solid financial support. How about some sort of nationwide
appeal. some kind of LMTAID. Meanwhile get your checkbooks out and send them
as much as you can.
JImdbb
JimDBB
>From: Zinj zinj...@yahoo.com
>Date: 10/9/01 7:44 PM Central Daylight Time
>Let me put it this way. Bill has been posting anonymously for ages as
>'unusual'.
>
>That's a long way from saying he didn't post using other nicks:
>
>Reality Check
>Concerned Critic
>Miscreant Critic
>
>et al
>
>I'd ask Bill Mcglaughlin to publicly announce what anonymous nicks he's
>used....
>
>Since he seems to use them regularly
>
>Zinj
Careful, Zinj, I was soundly denounced for outing Bill.
Jimdbb
Colette Marine
boobook...@webtv.net (Tigger) wrote:
> Geesh, I cant believe you people. It makes no difference what the LMT,
> a.k.a. Brooks did???? So you think it's all right for Brooks to lie,
> trash reputations, con everyone including Bob Minton and damage the Lisa
> McPherson case??????
I don't know if this is meant to be a response to me, or not, but
I'll respond anyway: You are not understanding what I'm saying.
I'm not saying it's OK to do whatever bad things are alleged to
have been done. I'm merely saying I don't frame it as a betrayal,
I don't think I've been made a fool of, and ultimately, what other
critics do doesn't change what I do: expose the abusive and
deceptive practices of the Church of Scientology. In the end,
regardless of what value judgement I place on what another critic
does, I am no more affected by their actions than I would be if
a fellow supporter of campaign finance reform, for example, goes
nuts and offs a bunch of people. That person is that person;
that person is not me. And the issue we both happen to support
remains the same.
> Unbelievable. You say it's not as bad as the COS because scientologists
> are fools, and can't think for themselves and critics are individuals
> and think for themselves???????
No. What makes it different is that Scientologists are part of
an organization, membership in which requires that they put
their full trust in certain people. When those people lie to
them and abuse them, it is a betrayal of the trust they were
required to invest in them as a condition of membership. If
a critic does something bad, there is no betrayal of *my* trust
because there was never trust invested in the first place,
voluntary or compulsory. That doesn't make the alleged wrong-
doing any less wrong. It simply means that the effects of the
wrong-doing on those around them are *different* than they
would be if those around them had been required to put their
trust in these people as a condition of membership in a group
which then constitutes their personal identity.
I expect you'll still find something to misunderstand in this,
but hell, it's worth a try.
Colette Marine
<nob...@xganon.com> wrote:
> ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT alias DOT net> wrote:
> >On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:28:15 -0400, Teresa <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>2) I was told on September 6 in a meeting in Stacy's office with
> >>all members of the LMT attending, that "as of two days ago, the LMT
> >>has been dissolved."
>
> >Does anyone know what "dissolved" means in this context and if it can have
> a
> >valid meaning with the Florida Corporate Records database indicating the
> >following?
>
> >The last noted event in the corporate record is 11/14/2000 and was a
> >reinstatement following an accidental administrative dissolution last year.
>
> >If the LMT has been dissolved it certainly isn't reflected in the (usually
> very
> >up to date) Florida Corporate Records database.
>
> >Now, either this poster (whether it is Teresa Summers or not) or the person
> she
> >is quoting is either lying, mistaken, or else the Florida Corporate Records
> >database is incorrect, or else there is some kind of meaning of the word
> >"dissolved" that wouldn't cause a change in Florida's Corporate Records
> >Database.
>
> Your conclusions are way off. Teresa said they had been briefed by Stacy
Brooks
> that the LMT had been dissolved. It is not Teresa who claimed this to have
> been so.
Reading comprehension is your friend. Try it again.
(Pay attention to the part that goes, "or the person she
is quoting.")
Colette Marine
tommy...@webtv.net (Tom Padgett) wrote:
> I would go along with Colette's 1st observation here that Teresa's post
> is "probably accurate
> but pretty shitty. ...but they were the wrong target."...[from the Co$'s
> wrath.]
I just want to make one clarification here. I didn't say
her post was "probably accurate." I have no way of making
that judgement. I said *if* it's accurate, *then* it's
shitty, *but*, etc...
Probably seems like small difference to everyone else, but
it's a huge difference to me.
Steve Plakos
Colette Marine wrote:
> In article <vov5stkhpdkom8p7q...@4ax.com>, Teresa
> <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
> > realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first time
> > I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
> > is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be told
> > in some areas.
>
> I think if this is a true and accurate picture, it's pretty
> shitty, but (because obviously the COS will make much hay
> of this) it doesn't change my feelings about the larger
> picture: ultimately, I oppose the abuses and deceptions of
> the Church of Scientology. I did so before the LMT existed,
> and I will continue to do so if it goes away. I did so
> before I knew Bob Minton existed, and I will do so no matter
> what Bob, Stacy, Jesse or anyone else involved in the LMT
> do now or in the future.
>
> Ultimately, the LMT is a wrong target. It's that simple.
>
> I hope I'm not the only one who will choose to respond in
> this way.
>
> --
> colette d. marine c...@nwu.edu
> "I suppose that all introspective people must some day ask
> themselves the question, 'How am I like college foootball?'"
> -- jay...@spambait.guild.org
You've said it so well I have nothing to add. Thank you.
Steve
Magoo
As I told you when I spoke to you ....I think you and Stacy need to sit down
and talk..with ((( WITH))) someone as an in-between liaison person.
Stacy said fine.
You refused.
Patrica refused.
That sucks.
I have been in the middle of a covert black PR campaign while I was IN
Scientology...and I can say from experience...it hurt me more than most
things. Most people "could not see it".
It was FILLED with lies...that one person needed others to believe. They
did, and they refuse to even talk to me. It sucked beyond words.
However you cut it, face it,,,,,this is EXACTLY what OSA wants.
Is it OSA? I don't really care.
I know you loved Stacy...and I know she still loves you.
To refuse to sit down and at least TRY ...
WITH someone else there.....is
Too Scientology for me.
OSA designs things like this.
If it isn't OSA>>>>>>it sure is their product.
Don't feed OSA>>>>>they eat people for lunch.
Open your heart.
My parents raised me, when there is a fight, get all to sit down and talk.
If someone refuses,,,,,there is a VERY good chance they are guilty by the
fact that they won't talk.
The least (((LEAST))) you and Patricia can do is sit down with Stacy and
whomever you chose, and TRY to sort things out. What IF you have incorrect
"information"?
I KNOW you KNOW what you KNOW>
So Does Stacy.
I also KNOW she ain't with OSA>
But your refusing to talk...both of you...is directly helping OSA>
Don't feed OSA>>>>they eat people for dinner too.
Tory Bezazian ..Aka: Magoo~
In for 30 years
Mid OT 7 for 7 years
Grad 4, HSSC, FPRD
Scientology Minister
OSA volunteer for 20 years
Out for 1 year
SP 5^with CC, and voted "Queen" by OSA
Free at last!
"Teresa" <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:vov5stkhpdkom8p7q...@4ax.com...
> Dear All,
>
> I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
> realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first time
> I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
> is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be told
> in some areas.
>
> 2) I was told on September 6 in a meeting in Stacy's office with
> all members of the LMT attending, that "as of two days ago, the LMT
Michael Reuss
>1) Stacy Brooks did want to go to Texas and ask Dell to drop the
>LMT case. She blames Ken Dandar for screwing up the case so badly
>that she and Bob and the LMT were dragged into it. Neither she nor
>Bob can see that any of their actions have contributed to the mess
>that Scientology is creating.
Bob and Stacy should have expected to get dragged into the case, and
behaved as if they would be deposed...
>Scientology is evil. They are
>manipulating the court system as they always do, this is true.
That is very true. Let's all keep this little tidbit right up front,
where it belongs, okay?
>However, Bob and Stacy's actions have created a lot of problems and
>Scientology, being opportunists, have succeeded in taking their
>blunders and using them to botch up the case.
To me, it would seem that any organization that did not exist until 3
years after a woman's death could not have played any role in that
death, a priori. But nevertheless, the judge seems to want to know
what was the LMT's role in the death of Lisa McPherson.
>Stacy once explained to me that she thought of the LMT as a gekko
>(sp?) and the Lisa case was the tail.
If true, that would certainly be more than just a bit short-sighted of
Stacy. After all, isn't obtaining some justice for Lisa McPherson's
estate what the Trust stands for?
>She wanted to get rid of the
>tail. She did not want Bob contributing money to the case any more.
I can certainly understand Stacy and Bob not wanting to throw money
down a bottomless hole. Litigating against Scientology can be very,
very expensive. But still, the methodology being used here (presuming
you are telling the truth) is pretty sleazy.
>However, she did manage to get Bob to stop funding the case. Which in
>the end may be a good thing. Lucky for all Ken cannot be manipulated
>by Stacy, though sadly Bob can be and is.
If I understand it correctly, Ken has done alright for himself up to
this point in the case, monetarily speaking. Now it's probably
appropriate for him to assume some of the risks. After all, he stands
to make a lot of money if he should ever collect on a judgement.
>2) I was told on September 6 in a meeting in Stacy's office with
>all members of the LMT attending, that "as of two days ago, the LMT
>has been dissolved." We were all told that we were now independent
>contractors. Two reasons were cited: no money and protecting Stacy
>from having to testify as to LMT money.
If true, and if done to protect LMT staff member from being deposed by
Moxon, this is simply a stupid move. This makes it appear that the LMT
is trying to obstruct justice, and that can be a criminal matter. Not
only that, it wouldn't change the likelihood that testimony might
still need to be given about the times prior to this change, in any
case.
Hell, guys, go into those depositions and tell the truth. If the judge
sees what the truth is, he's not going to let the evidence enter into
the trial...
>...I learned that hundreds of thousands of dollars had
>been donated to the LMT and given directly to Bob and then he turned
>around and told us there was not enough money to pay our salaries.
Are you owed money by the LMT? I would be very surprised to hear it.
> That's it for me. I am
>not going to put my neck on the line and be dragged into these
>depositions and support her if she is doing things that are not on the
>up-and-up. Or at least if she can't offer explanations.
For an organization to take on Scientology, it's members must
certainly be willing put their necks out. That's a needed quality for
LMT personnel.
However, I agree that mystery and secrecy and stealth and hidden
agendas are not the ways the LMT should be approaching its mission.
Rather, this organization should be running on trust and openness.
>She told me herself I don't know how many times that she
>hated working at the LMT and was only doing it for Bob.
If true, Stacy may not have been the best choice to head the LMT.
>As for Bob Minton, well I don't know Bob that well. I think he is a
>good guy at heart who has done a lot of good things for a lot of good
>people.
Bob has done many good things. But too many times, he's allowed his
arrogance and ego and need to control lead him to do questionable
things, things which Scientology opportunistically seizes upon to try
and misdirect public opinion and the courts.
Bob shouldn't be trying to be the man in charge on all fronts, but
sometimes I think that's what he wants.
>Also, I apologize to him for getting mad at him on the phone
>during our final conversation and screaming at him.
You sound like you could use a long break from the memetic wars...
Maybe we'll see you around again sometime.
>I am writing this because I think you all deserve to know the truth.
What you say makes a lot of sense and puts many of the recent
otherwise incomprehensible postings about the LMT into a more
understandable context.
Maybe now would be a good time for the LMT to more narrowly and
concisely define its mission and it's operational procedures, with the
working presumption being that they will always face Scientology's
litigation and harassments.
Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid
roger gonnet
Tigger <boobook...@webtv.net> a écrit dans le message :
24846-3BC...@storefull-213.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Your responses are exactly what I expected. Apparently you will forgive
> the LMT for making fools of you while you won't forgive COS for making
> fools of scientologists.
>
> So you shouldn't be surprised that Scientologists forgive Hubbard for
> making fools of scientologists while condeming critics for allowing LMT
> to make fools of critics.
>
Your logic holds, apart for one thing: LMT has attacked very suiccessfully
and gotten many people outside of the scam. It has not asked mandatory money
to those people, and has paid lots to defend victims viewpoints.
roger
roger gonnet
Teresa <tsum1...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message :
vov5stkhpdkom8p7q...@4ax.com...
> Dear All,
>
> I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
> realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first time
> I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
> is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be told
Well, I certainly do not know if Stacy or anyone in the LMT is totally true,
etc. That's not the point here.
Just after the Leipzig passage, I begged to differ from Bob or from Patricia
because they went public on their disagreements.
I know this situation can happen everywhere where scn happens to be. Scn is
the most evil system to get friends struggling to death between themselves.
Therefore, the last thing to do, in any circumstances, is going public
before the criminal eyes of OSAers who will make sure, now, that in NO
circumstances, the trial for Lisa Mc Pherson death could be won.
At least, there is one thing I'm certain, like Rod Keller says in a reply
above, it is that even if we have sometimes strong disagreements between us
critics, even if some messages between us smell like treason, we have
nevertheless a common purpose, which is to get this scn terrorist fraud
organization down.
Please, don't forget to make sure to keep on attacking the terrorist fraud,
particularly, by sending letters, meeting people, officials, lecturing, and
every mean you can, so as to get the truth known about the scam.
Scientology: "the way to get only R [in fact "agreement", not 'reality'] and
drowning A and C and U between people., the agreement being exclusively
"Imposing scn laws on the world".
roger
>
> 1) Stacy Brooks did want to go to Texas and ask Dell to drop the
> LMT case. She blames Ken Dandar for screwing up the case so badly
> that she and Bob and the LMT were dragged into it. Neither she nor
> Bob can see that any of their actions have contributed to the mess
> that Scientology is creating. Scientology is evil. They are
> manipulating the court system as they always do, this is true.
> However, Bob and Stacy's actions have created a lot of problems and
> Scientology, being opportunists, have succeeded in taking their
> blunders and using them to botch up the case.
>
> Stacy once explained to me that she thought of the LMT as a gekko
> (sp?) and the Lisa case was the tail. She wanted to get rid of the
> tail. She did not want Bob contributing money to the case any more.
> She told me about three months ago that she wanted to secretly contact
> Dell and convince her to drop the case. Secretly because neither Bob
> nor Ken could know. Someone told Jeff that Stacy was planning to do
> this and Jeff became very upset. Stacy outright lied to him and told
> him she had no plans of doing that. She was though. She did try, too.
> She called Dell and said she wanted to visit her...not telling Dell
> the reason. Dell, however, called Ken and told him Stacy wanted to
> come visit and Ken said....tell her NO. That was the end of that.
> However, she did manage to get Bob to stop funding the case. Which in
> the end may be a good thing. Lucky for all Ken cannot be manipulated
> by Stacy, though sadly Bob can be and is.
>
> I still have no idea why Stacy felt she had any right at all to try to
> jump in and manipulate the case, except for the money thing.
>
> 2) I was told on September 6 in a meeting in Stacy's office with
> all members of the LMT attending, that "as of two days ago, the LMT
> has been dissolved." We were all told that we were now independent
> contractors. Two reasons were cited: no money and protecting Stacy
> from having to testify as to LMT money. I, personally, was very
> disturbed when I learned that hundreds of thousands of dollars had
> been donated to the LMT and given directly to Bob and then he turned
> around and told us there was not enough money to pay our salaries.
> Fine. In addition, in a follow up depostion Stacy plead the 5th to a
> question as to had she ever been involved with money laundering.
>
> Ok. Whatever. I don't have the whole story on this stuff and when I
> ask question of Stacy I get --- myob. Ok. That's it for me. I am
> not going to put my neck on the line and be dragged into these
> depositions and support her if she is doing things that are not on the
> up-and-up. Or at least if she can't offer explanations.
>
> 3) I declined to continue working for the LMT as an independent
> contractor.
>
> Since I left I have received calls from many people in the US and in
> other countries. I apologize to all of you for allowing myself to
> only get Stacy's side of things. I believe Stacy has misled me and
> outright lied on numerous occasions. I once told her that I would
> back her up until I myself saw her lying or manipulating. That day
> has come. I can no longer support her.
>
> The bottom line for Stacy is her desperate bid to hang on to Bob
> Minton. She told me herself I don't know how many times that she
> hated working at the LMT and was only doing it for Bob. Well, in the
> end I saw how true that was.
>
> I apologize to Patricia Greenway and Ursula Caberta for any role I had
> in harming them or their reputations after the catastrophic Leipzig
> trip.
>
> As for Bob Minton, well I don't know Bob that well. I think he is a
> good guy at heart who has done a lot of good things for a lot of good
> people. I think he needs to take a break for about a month...away
> from Stacy and everyone else, and take care of himself a little bit.
> I think he dosen't care a whit what I think.
>
> I still thank him for the opportunity to work at the LMT and help
> people. Also, I apologize to him for getting mad at him on the phone
> during our final conversation and screaming at him. I don't like
> behaving that way. I don't very often.
>
> I am writing this because I think you all deserve to know the truth.
roger gonnet
ptsc <ptsc AT nym DOT alias DOT net> a écrit dans le message :
ah07stcdr3mjtfkuq...@4ax.com...
> On 9 Oct 2001 22:01:48 GMT, rke...@netaxs.com (Rod Keller) wrote:
>
> >Heather Bennett () wrote:
> >: Despicable betrayal of the trust given to you by your friends, Teresa.
>
> >: Whether the details you wrote are true or not (and I certainly don't
> >: know) whoring any information entrusted to you by your friends (and I
> >: would consider that to be anyone who is actually trying to fight this
> >: evil cult whether you personally like them or not) in a forum
> >: monitored by OSA is not only incredibly immature and selfish of you
> >: but absolutely unforgivable.
>
> >down in Clearwater has been under intense pressure, as you know better
> >than I do. I find myself in admiration of the people who have held up as
> >well as they have. It makes me sad to see such a strange betrayal, but I
> >think maybe Theresa needs the help of the LMT as much as the people who
> >came to the LMT needed Theresa. I know the first question I have is "why
> >on earth did you do this?" but after a little reflection the better
> >question is "how can we help?" That's what the Trust is all about,
really.
>
> If there's any truth to the allegations it's certainly a matter for public
> concern and I'm glad it was brought to the surface.
No. The truth has to be kept secret between those that are concerned.
Scienos are profiting of this publication of disagreements.
>
> Someone here is not telling us the truth, and this harms public trust.
Indeed, but it should have been behind the public lines.
roger
roger gonnet
Zinj <zinj...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message :
MPG.162d313ba...@news2.lightlink.com...
> In article <MPG.162d2e528...@news2.lightlink.com>,
> zinj...@yahoo.com says...
> <snip>
>
> > Part II follows
> >
> > Zinj
>
> Part II
>
> Bob gained a group willing to show 'solidarity' with him, something
> totally impossible with a 'herd of cats'.
>
> Got it?
>
> Over 40 years it's been too dangerous to oppose Scientology for an
> individual.
> To create a 'group' would invite an immediate attack....
>
> Which would be successful.
>
> Bob was something new in the critic community; someone willing to put his
> money where his mouth was, and enough money to survive at least 3 or 4
> punches to the mouth.
>
> Thank you Bob!
>
> There was *never* a problem in making a 'group'. The problem was, you
> couldn't be a public group or Scientology would crush you.
>
> Bob had enough money to try. He did. He still is. I like Bob :)
>
> I repeat though... it's quite probably a good idea that the LMT and the
> Lisa civil case discover their chasm.
You are right, but for one thing.
JUSTICE is a word that does not exist in US language. What you americans
call justice is "having money to waste before sometimes corrupt judges, and
always corruptable attorneys".
I've no money, but I'm relatively satisfied that i could win the two suits
launched after me by scientology here in France. I'll probably take myself
on pro-se before the courts, if the instruction judges want me to go there:
I don't consider our french justice as something despicable, while you
american are more than once saying that justice, or even the IRS, can be
entirely corrupted by blackmail etc.
Well. Ask to your govt to establish a new system.
The best system at the moment that could be done would probably be a mix of
UK, french, Germany and swiss constitutions and laws.
roger
roger gonnet
JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message :
20011009232753...@mb-cf.aol.com...
Possibly so, but think about it twice: Bob and Stacy did their LMT structure
to avoid scrutiny of their accounts, for some reason i can understand,
though it's difficult. You can't send much money or charities to a
supposedly commercial company.
I fear that this element alone has weighted a lot in the balance of
Clearwater judges. Perhaps they suspect Bob is only trying to make money.
(which is evidently absurd, because making money on scientology assholes is
everything but possible. It's already extremely dificult to get them
sentenced for their own crimes, impossible to get a real enquiry from the
american "government", this meeting of rich attorneys and sons of
milliardaires onto which OSA has probably hundreds of blackmail
possibilities.
I think more and more that americans have to make a form of revolution.
roger
roger gonnet
Elizabeth Ann Cox <eliza...@chesapeake.net> a écrit dans le message :
ts7ahh1...@corp.supernews.com...
> Colette, I think you have accurately expressed the sentiments of most of
the
> people who post to, or simply lurk and read, this NG.
Indeed. But don't forget that unless america does something about those
"religions" only done to make money, like scn and all these televangelists
and other "priests" of sad spirit, nothing shall be quiet about criminal
cults before long.
Otherwise said, america has to study what is religious or not, and stop
these nonsense scams calling themseves miracles healers etc. With "diplomas"
from any university.
And america must cease to use cults, wether criminal or not, to install its
spies in any country they don't dominate for the moment.
roger
roger gonnet
Starshadow <starsh...@home.com> a écrit dans le message :
LBFw7.20693$JN.7...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
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> news:cdm-091001...@quandong-94-186114.nuts.nwu.edu...
> has been a valuable tool, but it's certainly the wrong target. The
> CofS and OSA thought that if they could get rid of Dennis Erlich they
> could win, and they found out that ars was still here and people were
> still vocal after he left. Now they think if only they can eliminate
> the LMT that again, we will all shut up and go away, but they are
> wrong.
The OSA do think really this: We have to eliminate each and every single
being on this planet, unless he is totally observant of our Rules.
There is no way to take them otherwise.
OSA runs only after the book of war from sun tzu.
That's war, and lo! the USA is running that way.
That's why I think that US mentality is rather a new national socialism or
nationalism (that is, trying more or less to destroy every opponent by
owning any production tools, and being supported by such a quantity of
lethal weapons that the use of only some tens of them would certainly
destroy every life on this planet).
USA is actually a totalitarist country, with hegemony hegemaniac
tendenceies, preferring to get everyone dead rather than having any loss.
There is absolutely no reason to be so fond of one's money, if one is born
in a rich country. This is also true for frenchies or most eu countries.
One can't win this way.
One has to share the goods and comforts, not to sleep against too much of
them, with others dying around because they have nothing.
rioger
roger gonnet
<ultram...@webtv.net> a écrit dans le message :
10927-3BC...@storefull-621.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Damn it feels good being right.
> When Theresa called Stacy on her reprehensible treatment of others in
> Leipzig,it was just a matter of time.
>
> Follow the Brooks money trail for the next chapter. As Ive said before
> to others dismay. The critic movement was better off before the LMT.
> consider:
I don't think so. Anyone here is useful, even when disagreeing on some
points.
>
> Scientology can now gloat that in fact the LMT enriched Brooks-she never
> cared in the first place.
Sure, but those who know don't care. I did not care much atht Bob bought a $
250000 home for Robert Vaughn and Stacy first: he has the right to use his
money like he wants, as long as he won it honestly.
> Brooks also is responsible for ruining all ties to european officials.
?? how do you see she has ruined anything? as far as i can see, the only
problem comes from the fact that Bob seems to have lent money to Ursula
Caberta who needed it. Well, I could have asked some for myself, if I had
been in need, and I supposed he could have lent it eventually.
roger
Beverly Rice
> If I understand it correctly, Ken has done alright for himself up to
> this point in the case, monetarily speaking. Now it's probably
> appropriate for him to assume some of the risks. After all, he stands
> to make a lot of money if he should ever collect on a judgement.
Hi Mike :-). I met Ken and was able to enjoy a nice talk
with him, a lot of it not even having to do with the Co$.
I find him to be quite down to earth.
While sadly money ~is~ a necessary thing to live, I do
believe that to Ken it is about a lot more than money,
it is about justice for Lisa, and to make known certain
facts about the Co$ that need to known.
He is well aware of what force he is up against, and he is
aware of the odds I am sure.
Beverly
Tigger
pathetic. One wonders how much Hubbard think still lingers in some of
your minds.
Classic examples of refocus the attention on the "crimes" away from the
ones who committed them onto the "enemy". Now it's not Stacy or Bob
or the LMT who have betrayed trust, tred to trash people's reputations,
lied, etc. , it's Teresa Summers for tattling on her "friends" or Deana
Holmes or Patricia Greenway or even the U.S. And of course, none of
this would have happened if the COS han't targeted the LMT. Well just
look what they did to CAN. And on and on and on.
Few of you are willing to admit that Stacy Brooks betrayed the Trust,
Lisa McPherson, Bob Minton, Patricia Greenway and Ursula Caberta and God
knows how many others. Maria P.? Andreas? Brian Haney? David Cecere?
Ken Dandar? Lisa's aunt? Diane P.? How long can the list be?
And even if she did, that's perfectly all right because COS is the evil
we are fighting?????
I can not believe some of you can not see that what happened with the
LMT could hurt the fight against the abuses in the COS. The COS was
able to convince lots of people that anti-cult groups were "criminal
deprogrammers" for years and years because a few well-meaning people,
when little or nothing was known about mind control, thought all you had
to do was present enough of the right evidence and scientologists would
run away from Hubbard's con game.
I speak only for myself. And Bunnyann, you, speak only for yourself.
So stop saying MOST of US do this or that, unless you have been elected
the spokesperson for a.r.s.
Tigger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a just world, no man or WOMAN is above the law.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rod Keller
: If true, that would certainly be more than just a bit short-sighted of
: Stacy. After all, isn't obtaining some justice for Lisa McPherson's
: estate what the Trust stands for?
Absolutely not. "Exposing the deceptive and abusive practices of
Scientology and helping those victimized by it."
: If I understand it correctly, Ken has done alright for himself up to
: this point in the case, monetarily speaking. Now it's probably
: appropriate for him to assume some of the risks. After all, he stands
: to make a lot of money if he should ever collect on a judgement.
Last I heard, Ken had not taken a salary from the case. That was a year or
so ago.
--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher / Black Hat #1
Expert of the Toilet / CWPD Mouthpiece / Shelly Thompson in Drag
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Vision of Destruction
Bigot of Mystery / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully / Killer Rod
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"roger gonnet" <roger....@worldnet.fr> wrote in message
news:9q156n$2gr2$1...@news5.isdnet.net...
Wrong, Roger. You'd rather us be socialist, that's clear, but we are
not. And we won't be if I can have anything at all to say about it.
You just don't getit. You cannot disarm everyone on the planet.
That's impossible. To pass laws against arms would only arm the bad
guys. In every single place on the planet with concealed carry
permits, crime drops. In every single place on the planet where
people are as a general rule armed, crime drops. Why is that? Because
the bad guys don't want to end up dead. That is the only language
those people understand.
> USA is actually a totalitarist country, with hegemony hegemaniac
> tendenceies, preferring to get everyone dead rather than having any
> loss. There is absolutely no reason to be so fond of one's money,
> if one is born in a rich country. This is also true for frenchies
> or most eu countries.
Bullshit. USA is a REPUBLIC. Sometimes the system works imperfectly,
but most of the time it works well. And the USA is the largest single
contributor to impoverished countries. Right now we are giving food
aid as well as bombs to the Afghanis. There is nothing evil about
wealth, Roger. Wealthy people fund businesses which make for a
healthy economy. You may love the idea of socialism, but I don't.
Socialism doesn't work. Private enterprise works. That's HOW my
country got wealthy, Roger. That's how people in it continue to build
wealth. We don't hand it down, we put it to work and create it
ourselves.
Yet the USA gives generously to other countries, and whatever we do
is not enough, according to all the gun grabbers of Europeans--whose
irons WE pulled out of the fire during WW2. We helped rebuild Europe
after the war, did you know that? Our "evil" money.
> One can't win this way.
> One has to share the goods and comforts, not to sleep against too
> much of them, with others dying around because they have nothing.
>
>
Much better to give them a hand up than a hand out. Some people only
want to live on the generosity of others and will never produce.
Others cannot, and private sector help could do more, efficiently,
than public (gov't) welfare, since gov't traditionally wastes a chunk
of the money it steals from private interests just in bureaucratic
red tape. Others will learn to produce their own money if they have
help getting the tools to do so. But it all comes from the wealthy
you apparently are so envious of. None of it comes from the gov't,
since gov'ts don't produce money, they consume it.
Socialism may be fine for you, (and look how well it worked in
Russia, yeah, uh-huh!) but don't try to peddle it in the US. We
already do more for Europeans than Europeans ever did in the Second
or Third World.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4 with clam cluster, Official Wiccan Chaplain
ARSCC(wdne)
"Hubbard is a dead fat fraud who started a "religion" to make money,
and Miscavige is a wheezing dwarf who
makes insane outbursts about public buggery in court. There are no
OTs , and Xenu rules." That should be good for -25 stats points,
right OSA?
(find out what this means at www.clambake.org )
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ultram...@webtv.net
severance checks for Bunker?...and "independent contractors" like Tory.
fatten Brooks slush fund. How about another elaborate fine dining
experience ala Leipzig. What are you smokin Jim? Damn.
Talk about oats to a dead horse.
What Tigg and have said all along is true bubba. take it slow Jim.
Brooks was only in this to snag Minton. Minton was in it for a vicarious
thrill.
She and Vaugh never fought any cults for free. This goes back years you
know.
Mike
ultram...@webtv.net
with attitude in a chat room.
Mike
Tom Padgett
Thanks for the clarification. Sorry didn't mean to misquote you. I
erred myself in not prefacing
agreement to your 1st post with "If it this is true," which for the
record I hope it is not!
I also would agree rather strongly with Rod, that
most, if not all of the LMT staff have been under a LOT of
pressure....mountains of assaults from all sides. We are all humans and
have limitations stresswise and financially. Being in the face of the
Co$ all the time such as those
at 33 N. Ft. Harrison Ave. have been, is rather
gutsy and certainly puts them in harms way on a daily basis.
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
roger gonnet
Tigger <boobook...@webtv.net> a écrit dans le message :
6859-3B...@storefull-218.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Some of the posts to this thread would be laughable if they weren't so
> pathetic. One wonders how much Hubbard think still lingers in some of
> your minds.
Your own pathetic imbeciles warmongers who are making laws and deciding wars
and applying them should first take some minutes to think about the results
they have gotten till now. The results are so evident...
>
> Classic examples of refocus the attention on the "crimes" away from the
> ones who committed them onto the "enemy". Now it's not Stacy or Bob
> or the LMT who have betrayed trust, tred to trash people's reputations,
> lied, etc. , it's Teresa Summers for tattling on her "friends" or Deana
> Holmes or Patricia Greenway or even the U.S. And of course, none of
> this would have happened if the COS han't targeted the LMT. Well just
> look what they did to CAN. And on and on and on.
>
> Few of you are willing to admit that Stacy Brooks betrayed the Trust,
> Lisa McPherson, Bob Minton, Patricia Greenway and Ursula Caberta and God
> knows how many others. Maria P.? Andreas? Brian Haney? David Cecere?
> Ken Dandar? Lisa's aunt? Diane P.? How long can the list be?
I don't care if someone has done something not really okay there; I mean,
all these people are yet known as enemies of the cult, and are effectively
attacking it.
>
> And even if she did, that's perfectly all right because COS is the evil
> we are fighting?????
yes it is. Everyone here is imperfect, sorry for you all - and for me. We
all are no longer brainwashed puppets of a criminal maffia gang. We are
ourselves, which implies imperfections. We are HUMAN.
>
> I can not believe some of you can not see that what happened with the
> LMT could hurt the fight against the abuses in the COS. The COS was
> able to convince lots of people that anti-cult groups were "criminal
> deprogrammers" for years and years because a few well-meaning people,
> when little or nothing was known about mind control, thought all you had
> to do was present enough of the right evidence and scientologists would
> run away from Hubbard's con game.
>
> I speak only for myself. And Bunnyann, you, speak only for yourself.
> So stop saying MOST of US do this or that, unless you have been elected
> the spokesperson for a.r.s.
>
> Tigger
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> In a just world, no man or WOMAN is above the law.
indeed, and I agree with this quote!.
roger
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
roger gonnet
roger gonnet <roger....@worldnet.fr> a écrit dans le message :
9q14sj$2gog$2...@news5.isdnet.net...
>
> Teresa <tsum1...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message :
> vov5stkhpdkom8p7q...@4ax.com...
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
> > realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first time
> > I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
> > is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be told
> > in some areas.
>
> Well, I certainly do not know if Stacy or anyone in the LMT is totally
true,
> etc. That's not the point here.
>
> Just after the Leipzig passage, I begged to differ from Bob or from
Patricia
> because they went public on their disagreements.
sorry, I was in error here: indeed, Patricia or Peter did not come public
on ars about her disagreements.
roger
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
Someone please tell "Tigger" that assertations do not equal proof,
and that saying "most critics" say this or that or agree with this or
that is simply opinion, and that telling people to "stop saying" is
another varient on the imbecilic "Net cop" valence which has gotten
her plonked by so many critics BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4 with clam cluster, Official Wiccan Chaplain
ARSCC(wdne)
"Hubbard is a dead fat fraud who started a "religion" to make money,
and Miscavige is a wheezing dwarf who
makes insane outbursts about public buggery in court. There are no
OTs , and Xenu rules." That should be good for -25 stats points,
right OSA?
(find out what this means at www.clambake.org )
"roger gonnet" <roger....@worldnet.fr> wrote in message
news:9q1p9m$1v0r$1...@news6.isdnet.net...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
iQA/AwUBO8RrdUktf2e/DGsoEQLuyACfQb9u/sqk4LomNk4ilsVStGcYjqUAoLtS
loUFRlzkI/jexMmWxy5T4E6C
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barb
Boy, coming from the ARS Official Moron, this really carries some
weight! Reduced to personal attacks so soon? Not much in your little bag
of debating tools, is there Umike.
Your daddy would be so proud of his little boy!
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
http://members.home.net/bwarr1/index.htm
SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATE $CIENTOLOGY? Sign the petition at
http://www4.PetitionOnline.com/cofs1/
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski
"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"
"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.
$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser
Tigger
from Stacy Brooks to keep secrets and to do unethical things. And
Minton wanted Bunker to do an illegal webbing of THE PROFIT.
So they had double stress, didn't they?
Wanting to do the right thing, but being told by their bosses it was
o.k. to do dishonest and unethical things for "the greater good".
Tigger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I DON'T GIVE THEM HELL. I JUST TELL THEM THE TRUTH AND THEY THINK IT'S
HELL."'
Harry S. Truman (GIVE 'EM HELL, HARRY)
U. S. President
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
yduzitmatter
You have just made it very clear why many here have you
twitfiled. You are not just a twit - you are a viscious,
mud slining, fourth rate hack who knows only how to
attack. You are speaking from very little information
and making assumptions. Is this the only exercise you
get? Jumping to conclusions? It is still better to keep
your mouth shut and to be thought a fool than to open it and
remove all doubt.
Kim P
PLONK
Dr. Paloma
>
Gonnet, who just a short while ago was publically admonishing himself for
lapsing into convulsions of hatred, now appears to have totally lost it and, in
his ever mounting frustration, is now advocating an American revolution based on
his distemperment with religion.
ptsc
wrote:
>JimDBB <jim...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message :
>20011009232753...@mb-cf.aol.com...
>> >Subject: Re: Teresa Summers
>> >From: tommy...@webtv.net (Tom Padgett)
>> >Date: 10/9/01 6:08 PM Central Daylight Time
>> >Fact: The cult of the Co$ wiped CAN out of existence. If this alleged
>> >dissolving of the LMT is true, then the international terrorist group
>> >known as Dianetics - The Modern Science of Mental Health (a.k.a
>> >$cientology,) has yet another notch on it's evil black (PR) belt IMHO.
>> Let me add this. How many of you out there have actually contributed
>>money and whatever else you could to the LMT? Bob can't do it alone. To survive the
>>LMT has got to have solid financial support. How about some sort of nationwide
>>appeal. some kind of LMTAID. Meanwhile get your checkbooks out and send
>>them as much as you can.
>Possibly so, but think about it twice: Bob and Stacy did their LMT structure
>to avoid scrutiny of their accounts, for some reason i can understand,
>though it's difficult. You can't send much money or charities to a
>supposedly commercial company.
You can send as much as you like. You just can't deduct it.
ptsc
arnie lerma
wrote:
"In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary
act."
George Orwell
Paloma is a Scientology OSA shill... participating in a pattern of
frame-ups and entrapments
of critics.. from bomb threats { paulette cooper, OPERATION FREAK OUT)
thru alledged sex crimes ) suspected to be either the head of CCHR
or may be OSA Ian Shillington,
though Ian isn't considered nasty enough to be Paloma,
Ian has claimed publicly to be a "Doctor of Neuropathy" here in
Florida, and of course
has NO diploma or credentials since no such thing exists in Florida.
Again, Shillington, like Demoss and Hirst would likely be posting thru
and ISP provided by Intnet.net, (Pilat).
"Dr. Paloma" has recently claimed to be a "Neuropsychiatrist"
they fooled me for ten years.
Don't let them fool you for ten minutes.
arnie lerma
http://www.lermanet.com/osa/osawhoiswho.htm
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the new millenium
Secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind
http://www.lermanet.com/grifters.htm - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
You want Bigots? http://members.home.net/bwarr1/Movie2.html
Dr. Paloma
What IS your source of income, Roger?
>
>roger
>
>
Dr. Paloma
>
>
>That's why I think that US mentality is rather a new national socialism or
>nationalism (that is, trying more or less to destroy every opponent by
>owning any production tools, and being supported by such a quantity of
>lethal weapons that the use of only some tens of them would certainly
>destroy every life on this planet).
>
>USA is actually a totalitarist country, with hegemony hegemaniac
>tendenceies, preferring to get everyone dead rather than having any loss.
>There is absolutely no reason to be so fond of one's money, if one is born
>in a rich country. This is also true for frenchies or most eu countries.
>
>One can't win this way.
>
>One has to share the goods and comforts, not to sleep against too much of
>them, with others dying around because they have nothing.
>
>
>rioger
Have you been studying under Sten?
>
>
Dr. Paloma
Well put, Roger. The critics only profit to the degree the truth is submerged by
their lies. However, as we find time and again, the truth ultimately has a way
of coming to the surface, which is why we find LMT, you and the others
continuously in such seething fits.
Dr. Paloma
Icee
"Elizabeth Ann Cox" <eliza...@chesapeake.net> schreef in bericht
news:ts7b16q...@corp.supernews.com...
> We know Nessie is a good judge of character. He would likely flee for
> safety from Chigger and UM.
You bet ya ass, bunzz.
Nessie.
http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/mgormez/clearwater
> --
> Elizabeth Ann Cox
> FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
> aka, Bunnyann
> Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
>
>
> Icee <ic...@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:3bc3...@news2.lightlink.com...
> > My respond is on a.b.s: 'Nessie, Stacy and Maggie:-)'
> >
> > Nessie.
> >
> > "Colette Marine" <c...@northwestern.edu> schreef in bericht
> > news:cdm-091001...@quandong-94-186114.nuts.nwu.edu...
> > > In article <vov5stkhpdkom8p7q...@4ax.com>, Teresa
> > > <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear All,
> > > >
> > > > I feel I need to make a couple of statements here. Many of you
> > > > realize that I "left" the LMT some time ago. Today for the first
time
> > > > I got on ARS and I see a lot questions, some referring to me. There
> > > > is a lot of mis-information out here. I think truth needs to be
told
> > > > in some areas.
> > >
> > > I think if this is a true and accurate picture, it's pretty
> > > shitty, but (because obviously the COS will make much hay
> > > of this) it doesn't change my feelings about the larger
> > > picture: ultimately, I oppose the abuses and deceptions of
> > > the Church of Scientology. I did so before the LMT existed,
> > > and I will continue to do so if it goes away. I did so
> > > before I knew Bob Minton existed, and I will do so no matter
> > > what Bob, Stacy, Jesse or anyone else involved in the LMT
> > > do now or in the future.
> > >
> > > Ultimately, the LMT is a wrong target. It's that simple.
> > >
> > > I hope I'm not the only one who will choose to respond in
> > > this way.
> >
> > >
> > > --
> > > colette d. marine c...@nwu.edu
> > > "I suppose that all introspective people must some day ask
> > > themselves the question, 'How am I like college foootball?'"
> > > -- jay...@spambait.guild.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Icee
"Michael Reuss" <michae...@home.com> schreef in bericht
news:99k7st8arrf22e11m...@4ax.com...
> > Teresa <tsum1...@aol.com> wrote:
> >However, she did manage to get Bob to stop funding the case. Which in
> >the end may be a good thing. Lucky for all Ken cannot be manipulated
> >by Stacy, though sadly Bob can be and is.
>
> this point in the case, monetarily speaking. Now it's probably
> appropriate for him to assume some of the risks. After all, he stands
> to make a lot of money if he should ever collect on a judgement.
What does Teresa knows about Ken other than hearsay and
speculation taken out of proportion only to tell a possible distorted
version here for whatever unclear reasons she may have. The truth
she says? Maybe her truth, until now that is. Ken certainly didn't
sound or look unhappy while being very relaxed in quite a civilized
conversation with Stacy and others, when I met him at LMT _after_
Teresa Summers was history.
Some people may forget that whatever Stacy and Bob were trying
to do was in order to achieve protection of names of people
seeking refugee at LMT, their families and other victims of 'Fair
Game' by $cientology and to secure their trustworthiness for the
future victims by being willing to risk their own freedom or an
extreme high fine protecting such values.
Sometimes you lose; sometimes you win, but LMT certainly won
this one in court until now and I admire, that if it was a choice for them,
they chose to let go of LMT, as it exists in Clearwater, and not betray
the people and friends who gave them their trust and found shelter there.
Teresa Summers and integrity? Not knowing any agenda of hers other
than her alleged 'ultimate truth' once again about her friends, I find it
hard to believe or believe only her version of 'the truth' about the events
in LMT as the truth while also knowing that she left or was kicked out
of LMT months ago.
Besides, who needs enemies if you have friends like that?
Icee.
Icee
<ultram...@webtv.net> schreef in bericht
news:16060-3B...@storefull-625.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> STFU Bunny. You will go down in ars history as just another fat chick
> with attitude in a chat room.
You will go down in ars history as the paedophile, who
sent porn pictures of himself to very young girls.
Chris Leithiser
> What IS your source of income, Roger?
He's a neuropsychiatrist.
Hartley Patterson
> Theresa, you have a PGP key. [ID: 0xA167E9CB] Please send a PGP-signed
> post saying this was you. Thanks!
Yes please, and that goes for anyone else with a PGP key sending
unexpected posts to ARS. If you're not going to use it, revoke it.
--
"I think of my beautiful city in flames"
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk
A medieval spreadsheet, enturbulating entheta and how to outrun
Thread. PGP ID: 0xC27CDDDC
JimDBB
>From: ultram...@webtv.net
>Date: 10/10/01 9:10 AM Central Daylight Time
>Bwhhaaaaaa! Jim you MUST be joking-send money to LMT. for what?
>severance checks for Bunker?...and "independent contractors" like Tory.
>fatten Brooks slush fund. How about another elaborate fine dining
>experience ala Leipzig. What are you smokin Jim? Damn.
Aaaah..Mike, go back and read the new "My Deepest Appreciation" thread by
Susan. Susan recently left the cult with the help of the LMT and the ARS.
JImdbb
Mike O'Connor
boobook...@webtv.net (Tigger) wrote:
> And the LMT employees also seem to have been under a lot of pressure
> from Stacy Brooks to keep secrets and to do unethical things. And
> Minton wanted Bunker to do an illegal webbing of THE PROFIT.
>
> So they had double stress, didn't they?
> Wanting to do the right thing, but being told by their bosses it was
> o.k. to do dishonest and unethical things for "the greater good".
++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
"...while it is commonly believed to take two to make a fight, a
*third party* must exist and must develop it for actual conflict
to occur." -- ref: L Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 26 Dec 68 "The Third Party Law"
"Third Party" is defined as "one who by false reports creates trouble
between two people, a person and a group or a group and another group"
-- ref: L Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 15 Mar 69 "Third Party, How To Find One"
"False reports [are] a type of dev-t [developed traffic] where a report
that is false can cause greatly increased useless action ... verifying
it" -- ref: L Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 27 Jan 69 "Dev-T Summary List"
"A *third party* adds up to suppression by giving false reports on
others" -- ref: L Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 24 Feb 69 "An Ethics Policy
Letter - Justice"
"The activity called *black propaganda* consists of spreading lies
by hidden sources." L Ron Hubbard, _Modern Management Technology
Defined_, first printing 1976, p. 47
"For a quarrel to occur, an unknown *third party* must be active in
producing it between two potential opponents" -- ref: L Ron Hubbard,
HCO PL 26 Dec 68 "The Third Party Law"
"Black propaganda is in its technical accuracy, a covert operation
where unknown authors publicly effect a derogatory reaction and then
remain unknown." -- ref: L Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 11 May 71 Issue III,
"PR Series Number 7 - Black PR"
"When PR is used for the destruction of ideals or institutions or
repute of persons, it is called, traditionally, *black PR*. This is
usually covert and a distortion of truth or a whole cloth fabrication."
-- ref: L Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 7 Aug 72 "PR Series 17R - PR and Causation"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Mike O'Connor <http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>
Colette Marine
<Dr._m...@newsguy.com> wrote:
ADOPI
Pay attention, Paloma. This has been covered before.
xganon
---
This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com
Come visit the newest xganon server http://www.xganon.org providing
rights and freedom related news.
---
xganon
>
>>Possibly so, but think about it twice: Bob and Stacy did their LMT structure
>>to avoid scrutiny of their accounts, for some reason i can understand,
>>though it's difficult. You can't send much money or charities to a
>>supposedly commercial company.
>
>You can send as much as you like. You just can't deduct it.
>
>ptsc
If the LMT is dissolved who would the check be made out to?
Kaeli
However, I'm requesting a PGP key as well from Teresa.
Thanks in advance,
Kaeli
Elizabeth Ann Cox
people's mouths, not me!
--
Elizabeth Ann Cox
FOLO ED ("Flukenet" Online Liaison Office)
aka, Bunnyann
Doubt is not a crime; simply a reasonable response to tyranny!
Tigger <boobook...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6859-3B...@storefull-218.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> Some of the posts to this thread would be laughable if they weren't so
> pathetic. One wonders how much Hubbard think still lingers in some of
> your minds.
>
> Classic examples of refocus the attention on the "crimes" away from the
> ones who committed them onto the "enemy". Now it's not Stacy or Bob
> or the LMT who have betrayed trust, tred to trash people's reputations,
> lied, etc. , it's Teresa Summers for tattling on her "friends" or Deana
> Holmes or Patricia Greenway or even the U.S. And of course, none of
> this would have happened if the COS han't targeted the LMT. Well just
> look what they did to CAN. And on and on and on.
>
> Few of you are willing to admit that Stacy Brooks betrayed the Trust,
> Lisa McPherson, Bob Minton, Patricia Greenway and Ursula Caberta and God
> knows how many others. Maria P.? Andreas? Brian Haney? David Cecere?
> Ken Dandar? Lisa's aunt? Diane P.? How long can the list be?
>
> And even if she did, that's perfectly all right because COS is the evil
> we are fighting?????
>
> I can not believe some of you can not see that what happened with the
> LMT could hurt the fight against the abuses in the COS. The COS was
> able to convince lots of people that anti-cult groups were "criminal
> deprogrammers" for years and years because a few well-meaning people,
> when little or nothing was known about mind control, thought all you had
> to do was present enough of the right evidence and scientologists would
> run away from Hubbard's con game.
>
> I speak only for myself. And Bunnyann, you, speak only for yourself.
> So stop saying MOST of US do this or that, unless you have been elected
> the spokesperson for a.r.s.
>
> Tigger
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> In a just world, no man or WOMAN is above the law.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>