Comments on Mike Rinder
Woggle
If there's one person out there in the public relations field who
really creeps me out it's this guy, Mike Rinder, who leads the
"Church" of Scientology's Office of Special Affairs, the department
that handles much of the cult's public image and persona.
Rinder most recently appeared publicly on CNN's Anderson Cooper 360
doing among other things, denying that BBC reporter John Sweeney had
been followed by cult members while working on a segment for Panorama
called "Scientology and Me."
Despite the cult's sickening and outright attempt to intimidate the
reporter, Sweeney ended up the most memorable person in the story for
his unethical shouting match with the totalitarian cult spokesman
Tommy Davis. Although Sweeney's reporting may not have been the best-
he shouted to John Travolta during the London premiere of Wild Hogs-
the job he did to illustrate the cult's fanatical behavior was decent.
During the taping of the program Sweeney is clearly followed by
several cars as well as confronted while conducting a private
interview by Davis.
Scientology's fear of sunlight should be clear to most people,
nevertheless there's Rinder last month flat out denying that Sweeney
was followed as he denied during an A&E documentary in 1998 although
footage of German journalist Mona Boutros clearly shows as many as
three cars following her as well.
It's with a strange and sinister aplomb, reminiscent of Josef
Goebbels, that the Australian-born Rinder can flat out lie. It's as if
he wants you to know he's lying that he simply doesn't care because in
the end it doesn't matter, his cult will do what it has to do, spin
any lie, cover up any controversy, attack any critic and fabricate any
story that it must to get ahead.
Although I've hardly been the victim of Scientology, certainly I've
been reached by Scientologists in the last week in harmless and
innocuous ways. My Myspace profile has been visited by supporters
Narcanon, the drug rehabilitation program founded by the habitual liar
and drug user L. Ron Hubbard who Rinder goes through such lengths to
defend. Just this morning I found an invite to a profile called "Stop
Psychiatric Abuses". Certainly, my profile being attached to my blog
which contains a few shots at the cult, explains this. I'm hardly a
candidate for the "church's" "fair game" policy, although I have been
receiving dozens of spam messages into my personal account since I
posted my little Xenu contest.
Back to Rinder though, this guy is creepy. I'd like to find out more
about him. He seems like a true-believer who speaks through his neck.
JAFAW
<cock...@aussieisp.net.au> wrote in message
news:1181206713....@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 7, 2:56 pm, Woggle <weeble.wog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > from the blogger who posted the Xenu picture contest
> >
> Psychiatry. Psychiatry has no patients, it has victims only.
> Because, simply Psychiatry is based on a fraudulent concept of
> existence of individual consciousness. You cannot heal
> spiritual and mental problems with Biological Psychiatry. Until
> critics understand these flaws in their arguments against
> Scientology, then they will make no headway. It was interesting that
> Sweeney's outburst occured when he was being introduced
> to Psychiatric abuses. Psychiatric abuses condoned by the very highest
> office holders in government and the Crown, in his
> own country. Scientology needs its enemies, and Psychiatry is a
> perfect enemy because it is wrong; making Scientology to
> that extent at least right. Every bit of rightness helps.
>
>
>
No, cookatoo, $cientology's enemies are the ones that are a threat to the
cult's ability to scam people.
$cientology does not actually care one single jot about the mentally ill.
They couldn't help even if they wanted to because they have no workable
alternative to bona fide mental health treatment. $cientology's own comonly
used statement, "(scientology) allows the able to become more able", shows
that it does not provide for the truly disabled.
What the cult does care about is the ability to extract large amounts of
money by selling baseless "self-help" quackery using intensive "bait and
switch" techniques that fall under a category of hypnotism.
In fact if you have almost any illness, the $cientology response is, "OK,
what did you do to pull that in" and have a history of persuading members to
stop taking prescribed medication.
Psychiatry is based on the best science of the time and improves by peer
review with extensive scientific research. It is not perfect and, unlike
$cientology, it never claims to be so but compare and contrast the treatment
of the mentally ill 50 years ago with the much imporved treatment today.
Now look at $cientology, who are still selling a book from the 1950's caled
"Dianetics - The modern Science of Mental Health" which has not changed one
single bit.
Back to the original subject:-
Oh and Rinder gets beaten up by David Miscavige, presumably for the times
when the lying PR cocksucker does not lie convincingly enough.....
http://www.xenu-directory.net/accounts/blownforgood.html
Can $cientology help him with that?
JAFAW
www.xenu.net
www.xenutv.com
www.lermanet.com
www.whyaretheydead.net
www.operatingthetan.com
www.lisafiles.com
www.stop-narconon.org
www.narconon-exposed.org
www.xenu-directory.net
Hartley Patterson
> Scientology's fear of sunlight should be clear to most people,
> nevertheless there's Rinder last month flat out denying that Sweeney
> was followed as he denied during an A&E documentary in 1998 although
> footage of German journalist Mona Boutros clearly shows as many as
> three cars following her as well.
This is what I call the 'Militant Tendency' tactic.
In the UK an extreme left wing group of that name was attempting to take
over local branches of the Labour party, then in opposition. An undercover
TV journalist infiltrated one of their meetings, recorded them discussing
this, and confronted them with the evidence.
Instead of refusing to comment they denied everything, on camera. The TV
programme had to give them 'balanced' air time, so the programme gave the
impression of 'disputed facts' rather than 'guilty as charged'.
Eventually Militant Tendency was exposed and expelled, but not before they
had ensured a decade of Conservative rule under Mrs Thatcher.
This is what Rinder does. He flat out lies. With an obscure subject like
Scientology this worked when Hubbard was alive so it's Tech approved. But
Scientology is no longer an obscure subject, so most journalists *and*
most viewers can see he's lying. The 'bona fide religion' cloak has gone
with the C word in frequent media use. Watch the recent interviews again
and you'll see it, Rinder is no longer in control.
--
Hartley Patterson
www.newsfrombree.co.uk
Eldon
> from the blogger who posted the Xenu picture contest
>
According to Chuck Beatty's reports, Rinder has already been busted to
the RPF and re-brainwashed a number of times. He's looking a lot more
robotic these days whenever they trot him out to deliver a shore
story.
But apparently, he's the best they can come up with. Who else are they
going to use? Tom Cruise? His clone Tommy Davis? Heber Jentzsch?
Here's hoping for a Heber comeback when Rinder suffers the ultimate,
inevitable meltdown. Heber's TRs were absolutely priceless!
Or maybe Davey will have to step up to the plate and lie on his own
behalf.
RolandRB
Mike Rinder is the best dried-shit-shoveller in the world. The guy is
a miracle to behold but don't be anywhere near him when he sneezes.
Eldon
Well Roland, in terms of back story...
Rumo(u)r has it that poor Mike Rinder once sneezed at an inopportune
time, just as Davey had removed the Saran Wrap from his glass to take
a sip. Whether the glass contained distilled water, a Cal-Mag solution
or a commemoratively strong Rum 'n' Coke varies according to different
eyewitness accounts; but there seems to be general agreement that
Davey immediately had Mike restrained by bodyguards as he smacked the
poor lad excessively before remanding him to shit-shoveling duties
until further notice.
Such untimely incidents can happen to those who fail to follow the
infallible instructions of LRH to rinse clothing successively in
thirteen buckets of water after washing to remove body thetans
disguised as fragrances.
I hope this clears up any tech outpoints.
Lermanet.com
wrote:
>from the blogger who posted the Xenu picture contest
>
>http://uncutdiamond.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/mike-rinder-would-have-been-a-great-third-reich-spokesperson/
>
>If there's one person out there in the public relations field who
>really creeps me out it's this guy, Mike Rinder, who leads the
>"Church" of Scientology's Office of Special Affairs, the department
>that handles much of the cult's public image and persona.
>
Check out this rinder snippet of video
http://www.Lermanet.com/house/destructive.htm
Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK FOR OUR FRIENDS and FAMILY
to get them out while they are still alive!
http://ocmb.lermanet.us/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=381
"He exuded evil, malice, and stupidity"
Gore Vidal on meeting L Ron Hubbard
Gerry Armstrong
I had a meeting with Mike Rinder and Mike Sutter in 1994 in which I
protested against some of the Scientology cult's, including Rinder's,
lies they were disseminating about me. See, e.g.,
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/rinder-ltr-1994-05-09.html
Rinder referred to these attacks as "Dead Agent" or "DA," and I
corrected him several times, pointing out that what he and his cult
were doing was not Dead Agenting, as Hubbard and the cult define it,
but Black Propaganda or Black PR.
After some minutes of my persistence in calling his and Scientology's
lies "Black PR," Rinder admitted that what they were doing was indeed
Black PR, and added very threateningly, "And we're going to keep doing
it until you shut up."
I have not shut up clearly, and Rinder and his cult have not stopped
their Black PR campaign.
I believe Rinder has allowed himself or made himself willfully
sociopathic. I believe that he will murder for the cult, if he hasn't
already. Certainly because of Rinder's lies and crimes David
Miscavige, who truly is a sociocpath and is capable of any crime, has
Rinder in his grip and will continue to have him lie and commit
crimes.
Miscavige and his thugs like Rinder and their cult's products like
Barbara Schwarz willfully black PR good people to destroy their
reputations and, as Hubbard ordered, turn public opinion against them
into "a frenzy of hate" and degrade their images " to beast level."
The purpose for Miscavige's, Rinder's, Schwarz's and Scientology's
Black PRing of good people is to facilitate their murder.
If Miscavige, Rinder, et al. did not intend murder they would cease
and correct all their Black PR. What prevents them from murdering the
good people they Black PR is the failure so far to obtain the
requisite public frenzy of hate, the failure so far to degrade their
victims' images to beast level, and the consequent fear of public
repercussions if they murder these victims without first achieving
that frenzy and degradation.
So be aware that when Rinder lies, Miscavige lies, Schwarz lies, or
any person in organized Scientology lies about their cult's victims,
these Scientologists intend murder.
A challenge to every Scientologist: If you believe your cult's leaders
and operatives Black PR good people for some other evil purpose than
to facilitate these good people's murder, please identify that other
evil purpose.
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
Tom Hens
Hartley Patterson <hpt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote...
> weeble...@yahoo.com:
>
> > Scientology's fear of sunlight should be clear to most people,
> > nevertheless there's Rinder last month flat out denying that Sweeney
> > was followed as he denied during an A&E documentary in 1998 although
> > footage of German journalist Mona Boutros clearly shows as many as
> > three cars following her as well.
What really made me laugh was Rinder simultaneously denying that Sweeney
was followed, while making statements showing that he clearly was. Rinder
stated that during the time he spent in Clearwater, Sweeney didn't set foot
in any Scientology building. How could he possibly know that, unless
Sweeney was under constant surveillance? He stated that Sweeney didn't talk
to any ordinary Scientologists in Clearwater. Again, how could he possibly
know that unless Sweeney was under constant surveillance, and/or all
"ordinary" Scientologists in Clearwater were under orders to report any
contact with Sweeney to the "Church"? Not to mention of course the quite
visible evidence of the Homunculus In Black popping up all over the place,
on occasions he clearly wasn't invited to.
<snip>
> This is what Rinder does. He flat out lies. With an obscure subject like
> Scientology this worked when Hubbard was alive so it's Tech approved. But
> Scientology is no longer an obscure subject, so most journalists *and*
> most viewers can see he's lying. The 'bona fide religion' cloak has gone
> with the C word in frequent media use. Watch the recent interviews again
> and you'll see it, Rinder is no longer in control.
Their institutional pathological lying is the one characteristic of
Scientology which took me several years to fully grasp, and which is very
hard to impart to people new to the subject. It is simply very hard to
believe that there exists an organisation, made up of real human beings,
where one has to start from the default assumption that *everything* they
say is a flat-out lie, unless there is strong independent evidence that
maybe there might be some small grains of truth mixed up within the lies
somewhere. I have done a lot of cult- and kook-watching over the years, and
yet I cannot think of any group that approaches Scientology in this regard.
Woggle
Do not tell *harmful* lies
http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/scientology/T5J15H123FSE2GIAB
Specialist Training in How to lie as a scientologist
Gerry Armstrong
Probably intelligence agencies and crime syndicates. Scientology, of
course, is both.
© Gerry Armstrong
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
RolandRB
> On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 12:29:50 +0100, Hartley Patterson
>
>
>
>
>
> >weeble.wog...@yahoo.com:
>
> >> Scientology's fear of sunlight should be clear to most people,
> >> nevertheless there's Rinder last month flat out denying that Sweeney
> >> was followed as he denied during an A&E documentary in 1998 although
> >> footage of German journalist Mona Boutros clearly shows as many as
> >> three cars following her as well.
>
> >This is what I call the 'Militant Tendency' tactic.
>
> >In the UK an extreme left wing group of that name was attempting to take
> >over local branches of the Labour party, then in opposition. An undercover
> >TV journalist infiltrated one of their meetings, recorded them discussing
> >this, and confronted them with the evidence.
> >Instead of refusing to comment they denied everything, on camera. The TV
> >programme had to give them 'balanced' air time, so the programme gave the
> >impression of 'disputed facts' rather than 'guilty as charged'.
>
> >Eventually Militant Tendency was exposed and expelled, but not before they
> >had ensured a decade of Conservative rule under Mrs Thatcher.
>
> >This is what Rinder does. He flat out lies. With an obscure subject like
> >Scientology this worked when Hubbard was alive so it's Tech approved. But
> >Scientology is no longer an obscure subject, so most journalists *and*
> >most viewers can see he's lying. The 'bona fide religion' cloak has gone
> >with the C word in frequent media use. Watch the recent interviews again
> >and you'll see it, Rinder is no longer in control.
>
> I had a meeting with Mike Rinder and Mike Sutter in 1994 in which I
> protested against some of the Scientology cult's, including Rinder's,
>
> Rinder referred to these attacks as "Dead Agent" or "DA," and I
> corrected him several times, pointing out that what he and his cult
> were doing was not Dead Agenting, as Hubbard and the cult define it,
> but Black Propaganda or Black PR.
>
> After some minutes of my persistence in calling his and Scientology's
> lies "Black PR," Rinder admitted that what they were doing was indeed
> Black PR, and added very threateningly, "And we're going to keep doing
> it until you shut up."
>
> I have not shut up clearly, and Rinder and his cult have not stopped
> their Black PR campaign.
>
> I believe Rinder has allowed himself or made himself willfully
> sociopathic. I believe that he will murder for the cult, if he hasn't
Murdering SPs raises the Tone Level(tm) of society.
> already. Certainly because of Rinder's lies and crimes David
> Miscavige, who truly is a sociocpath and is capable of any crime, has
> Rinder in his grip and will continue to have him lie and commit
> crimes.
>
> Miscavige and his thugs like Rinder and their cult's products like
> Barbara Schwarz willfully black PR good people to destroy their
> reputations and, as Hubbard ordered, turn public opinion against them
> into "a frenzy of hate" and degrade their images " to beast level."
> The purpose for Miscavige's, Rinder's, Schwarz's and Scientology's
> Black PRing of good people is to facilitate their murder.
>
> If Miscavige, Rinder, et al. did not intend murder they would cease
> and correct all their Black PR. What prevents them from murdering the
> good people they Black PR is the failure so far to obtain the
> requisite public frenzy of hate, the failure so far to degrade their
> victims' images to beast level, and the consequent fear of public
> repercussions if they murder these victims without first achieving
> that frenzy and degradation.
"Disposed of quietly and without sorrow"
> So be aware that when Rinder lies, Miscavige lies, Schwarz lies, or
> any person in organized Scientology lies about their cult's victims,
> these Scientologists intend murder.
Hear that, you pee-stinking bag-lady bitch?
> A challenge to every Scientologist: If you believe your cult's leaders
> and operatives Black PR good people for some other evil purpose than
> to facilitate these good people's murder, please identify that other
> evil purpose.
>
> © Gerry Armstronghttp://www.gerryarmstrong.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Barbara Schwarz
> On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 12:29:50 +0100, Hartley Patterson
You will be held legally responsible for your libel, Gerald Armstrong.
Don't give me your character. I don't libel and defame anybody. That
is your specialist.
I don't even know Mike Rinder and David Miscavige.
You are the one who said that you just have to allege and never prove
a thing. It will change, Gerry. You will not come away with your lies.
Justice will be put on you.
Now get out of my face before I curse a red wart with three big black
hair on your nose, which will be bigger than your skinny body.
Take that dirty cartoon from your site, sicko.
Exposing p$ychiatric agents and trolls:
if you are intelligent and think for yourself, they defame, libel, and
abuse you as being mentally ill. If you are not intelligent and don't
think for yourself but adopt their mentally retarded, narrow, false,
insecure, and hate filled opinions, they call you sane. - Thanks, I
rather be my own thinking person. -- Barbara Schwarz
By the way: Wikipedia (Wikipiggi) lies.
And I am no cultist but a cooltist!
Barbara Schwarz
> On 8 Jun, 04:33, Gerry Armstrong <g...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote:
Primitive and jealous liars as you, Roland, deserve no attention.
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
> "Church" of Scientology's Office of Special Affairs, the department
> that handles much of the cult's public image and persona.
>
> It's with a strange and sinister aplomb, reminiscent of Josef
> Goebbels, that the Australian-born Rinder can flat out lie. It's as if
> he wants you to know he's lying that he simply doesn't care because in
> the end it doesn't matter, his cult will do what it has to do, spin
> any lie, cover up any controversy, attack any critic and fabricate any
> story that it must to get ahead.
>
Yes. And the lying pegs Scientology. It is systemic, it's systemic
due to Hubbard, and it's a characteristic of Scientology, Hubbard
adopted the bureaucratic lying techniques that go on in the unethical
western culture groups like big business and other large groups that
dance around the truth when it hurts their image.
At this point, there are ex Gilman Hot Springs staff, particularly
after the Rolling Stone magazine article a year ago, who just chorused
to one another on the XSO chat site their astonishment of Rinder's
blatant lying about them.
There are people who are out, who were higher ranked in the movement
than Rinder at times, who were astonished with his lying.
Mike used to be Chief Off FB, when the FB was in Clearwater.
Later Mike was Chief Off CMO Int, in the early 1980s, it was then he
was busted and RPFed. His busting at CMO Int in 1983, to the PAC RPF,
that occured essentially due to an LRH comment, where LRH in 1982 or
1983 LRH mentioned that Mike was ".... like a yo-yo on my lines...."
is what LRH said, I paraphrase to the best of my ability. It was
quotes like that, which caught my eye. I was green to this upper
echelon, in 1983-1984, and I had to scan through all the LRH advices
traffic for the project I was on.
This disparaging comment by LRH is one of the kiss of death type
comments, that the messengers in CMO Int and through the years, and
other senior top execs, NO ONE wants to draw those comments.
Once those LRH disparaging comments go on one's record, there's no
erasing those LRH opinions, and one just won't outlive the LRH stamp.
Mike has actually held himself up against this LRH disparaging
comment, in my opinion, and I don't think he actually let it get to
him. Other people I think more were the effect of the LRH stamps of
disapproval. I don't think Mike ever really bought that LRH remark
about himself as true.
In my opinion Mike's actually got some core integrity. I've only had
peripheral contact with him, I do recall helping train him very
briefly, he was once awarded some study time on the OEC/FEBC in 1977
and I briefly helped supervise him, at Clearwater, when he was Chief
Off FB. Later I saw him when he was Chief Off CMO Int, he was still
on post, when I first arrived in June or July 1983, at Gilman Hot
Springs, or he had just been removed, when I came to Int to be a
junior member of the Routing Forms Project, a project that had gone
through 2 sets of missionaires (all busted off the mission, and I was
amongst round three in the manning of that project). I was sort of
just a visiting project missionaire in Del Sol, which is the two story
management building, CMO Int was mostly on the second floor, and exec
strata was on the first floor.
Mike was busted or was already busted by the time I got there, summer
of 1983, and he ended up afterwards on the PAC RPF. It happened as a
result of whatever flaps he didn't deal with, and then that LRH "...yo-
yo on my lines...." comment was the kiss of death type comment to have
on one's record.
Mike as a young Scientologist was over in Victoria, during the ban, in
the 1960s, and he lived through that.
I think he's got a few more years in him.
I also think due to the huge amount of support work/flanking work put
into making the DVD that counter-attacked the BBC Sweeney show, when I
saw that they had produced that DVD, in the scheme of things, it took
Mike and Davis OFF THE HOOK. Because the bad PR that was inevitably
to come from the show, the church was not just relying on Mike and any
of the other Scientology spokespeople's countering efforts. The DVD
was there to be the effective handling for the damage the show was to
cause.
So, I see truly, he'll not take the fall for any BBC show bad PR.
snip
> Back to Rinder though, this guy is creepy. I'd like to find out more
> about him. He seems like a true-believer who speaks through his neck.
There are some older timer CMO people who know him back to Australia
days, they feel for him and will get him restarted in life, if he
makes it out.
If Mike does make it out, even with his wierd mushed in look and
mentality, there are people who feel for him, and they know he's lying
through his teeth, and they know it's part of his job, unfortunately.
And they'll help him out anyways, if he decides to blow. He knows how
to find them too, I imagine.
As official Scientology more plays by the outside world's freer rules,
it'll cause official Scientology to change and reform.
The more they stick with Hubbard's problamatic rules, the more they'll
have problems.
Mke's an okay person, to most who I've asked about him, and to me even
the brief times I happened to be around him. He's just assumed a
role, taken on the responsibility of the role in LRH's show/game, and
that involves lying and holding up a delusional charade, is all.
Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13716306@N00/
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
one I know ever got beat up by Mike. He's at least not gone into the
bad-ass valance and beaten on his fellow Sea Org members. He's the
resigned punching bag type more than the one who plays attack dog on
his fellows within the movement like others unfortunately were drawn
into doing. Remember blownforgood's comment of seeing Mike beaten up
by DM many many times, and others saw Mike beat up by DM also.
Mike's a high level trouper.
Mike's also way way deep in all of the covert stuff OSA's done.
Mike's skeletons and the skeletons he knows about, he'd make a great
defector.
Mike Sutter also would make a great defector.
Chuck Beatty
NRen2k5
> No matter what wrong Scientology may do; it is right in attacking
> Psychiatry.
No, it isn't.
> Psychiatry has no patients, it has victims only.
Baloney.
> Because, simply Psychiatry is based on a fraudulent concept of
> existence of individual consciousness.
Wha... ?????
> You cannot heal spiritual and mental problems with Biological
> Psychiatry.
Many mental problems CAN be healed with psychiatry.
> Until critics understand these flaws in their arguments against
> Scientology, then they will make no headway.
This path you just went down doesn't have anything to do with Scientology.
> It was interesting that Sweeney's outburst occured when he was being
> introduced to Psychiatric abuses. Psychiatric abuses condoned by the
> very highest office holders in government and the Crown, in his own
> country.
A conspiracy theory, eh?
> Scientology needs its enemies, and Psychiatry is a perfect enemy
> because it is wrong; making Scientology to that extent at least
> right. Every bit of rightness helps.
No, you're wrong about that.
NRen2k5
NRen2k5
> On Jun 7, 8:33 pm, Gerry Armstrong <g...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 12:29:50 +0100, Hartley Patterson
>
> You will be held legally responsible for your libel, Gerald Armstrong.
<Kookery snipped>
LMFAO as usual.
Boudewijn van Ingen
Nope. Intelligence agiencies and crime syndicates will lie when
needed, of course. But they will not do it as openly and blatently as
$cientologists do. These kind of organisations generally are capable
of learning not to shoot in their own foot, unlike $cientology. ;-)
>Š Gerry Armstrong
>http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
--
Groeten,
Boudewijn.
Boudewijn van Ingen
<tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT> wrote:
That speech the US government organized in the UN general assembly
before the Iraq war was almost as blatant and most certainly
'institutional'. But the $cientologists are apparently better
organized at it. Practice makes perfect... ;-)
--
Groeten,
Boudewijn.
Robert Griffin
> Miscavige and his thugs like Rinder and their cult's products like
> Barbara Schwarz willfully black PR good people to destroy their
> reputations and, as Hubbard ordered, turn public opinion against them
> into "a frenzy of hate" and degrade their images " to beast level."
I've noticed that. I've also noted the HCO Policy Letter of 15 August 1960
on your very interesting web site.
> The purpose for Miscavige's, Rinder's, Schwarz's and Scientology's
> Black PRing of good people is to facilitate their murder.
Or suicide. If someone is in a vulnerable enough position, the willful
intent to firstly put their target person on edge, then to finally push
their target over that edge, becomes one tactic they would employ if possible.
Reading of Paulette Cooper's personal experiences, it appears to be a tactic
they see no shame or feel any remorse about attempting to use.
> If Miscavige, Rinder, et al. did not intend murder they would cease
> and correct all their Black PR. What prevents them from murdering the
> good people they Black PR is the failure so far to obtain the
> requisite public frenzy of hate, the failure so far to degrade their
> victims' images to beast level, and the consequent fear of public
> repercussions if they murder these victims without first achieving
> that frenzy and degradation.
When the said level of frenzied degradation reaches the point of social and
professional ostracism, bankruptcy, etc.: I believe it's highly possible that
a person, so weakened by the effects of black PR, would contemplate suicide.
Who needs to carry out Audit Process R245 then, if they can push someone into
using that process as a DIY exercise?
> So be aware that when Rinder lies, Miscavige lies, Schwarz lies, or
> any person in organized Scientology lies about their cult's victims,
> these Scientologists intend murder.
Or push the target hard enough so s/he murders him / her self.
> A challenge to every Scientologist: If you believe your cult's leaders
> and operatives Black PR good people for some other evil purpose than
> to facilitate these good people's murder, please identify that other
> evil purpose.
Ah; The Silence of The Clams...
> © Gerry Armstrong
> http://www.gerryarmstrong.org
Hartley Patterson
> That speech the US government organized in the UN general assembly
> before the Iraq war was almost as blatant and most certainly
> 'institutional'. But the $cientologists are apparently better
> organized at it. Practice makes perfect... ;-)
My favorite for elected politicians was the Israeli Foreign Minister being
asked if Israel had weapons of mass destruction. The interviewer was
expecting him to duck the question, but he answered "No sir". Twice.
He was obviously lying, everyone knew he was lying, but the interviewer
couldn't by the rules say he was.
--
Hartley Patterson
www.newsfrombree.co.uk
antisectes
Piltdown Man
Gerry Armstrong <ge...@gerryarmstrong.org> wrote in article
<ahkh631b9rsrt52su...@4ax.com>...
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:56:58 -0500, "Tom Hens"
> <tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT> wrote:
>>Their institutional pathological lying is the one characteristic of
>>Scientology which took me several years to fully grasp, and which is
>>very hard to impart to people new to the subject. It is simply very hard
>>to believe that there exists an organisation, made up of real human
>>beings, where one has to start from the default assumption that
>>*everything* they say is a flat-out lie, unless there is strong
>>independent evidence that maybe there might be some small grains of truth
>>mixed up within the lies somewhere. I have done a lot of cult- and kook-
>>watching over the years, and yet I cannot think of any group that
>>approaches Scientology in this regard.
>
> Probably intelligence agencies and crime syndicates.
Both of those, of course, lie when it suits them. But they're smart enough
to mix in as much truth as possible, or at least plausibility, and only
lie about those points that matter. Normal people realize that other people
are capable of checking facts if they doubt a story, and take that into
account when they're constructing a lie (and there are often good and
honourable reasons for doing that). Pathological liars on the other hand
don't.
What is so amazing about Scientologists is that not only do they routinely
lie about things that can easily be shown to be lies, they even routinely
lie about things there is no rational basis to *want* to lie about. And
then, after they've been caught in some of those lies, highly publicly, on
the record, in front of cameras, they *still* simply keep on repeating them
as if nobody has noticed, sometimes almost in the same breath. Or as in
this case, lies that are quite obviously shown to be lies by their own
statements. I can think of several other blatant examples just off the top
of my head, but I think I've typed enough for today.
Piltdown Man
Boudewijn van Ingen <bo...@xs4all.nl> wrote...
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:56:58 -0500, "Tom Hens"
> <tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT> wrote:
Sorry for the monniker confusion -- for reasons that are much too boring to
explain, a long time ago I started using the "Piltdown Man" nom de plume
here, and I sometimes forget to switch from my real name which I use in
some other newsgroups. I've thought several times of ditching the
pseudonym, it's not as if my real name is a secret, but in a weird way I've
grown fond of the old coot over the years. It can't be easy going through
life with everyone always telling you you don't exist, except in the annals
of scientific hoaxes and some of the ramblings of Lafayette R. Hubbard. And
what's more, deep down knowing the people who tell you that are actually
right.
> That speech the US government organized in the UN general assembly
> before the Iraq war was almost as blatant and most certainly
> 'institutional'. But the $cientologists are apparently better
> organized at it. Practice makes perfect... ;-)
Politicians and diplomats are expected to tell some lies, when it suits
their purpose. The line that an ambassador is someone who is sent abroad to
lie for his country is very old. But there is something fundamentally
different about the Scientology pattern of lying. When Colin Powell gave
that speech, one didn't have any need to doubt that a country called 'Iraq'
exists in reality. When he mentioned Sadam Hussein, one didn't need to have
any doubt that a person by that name existed, and that he was indeed the
president of Iraq. One only needed to doubt whether all the things he said
about Iraq and Saddam Hussein were true. When a Scientology spokesman says
anything, anything at all, one has to start from the assumption that
*nothing* that is said is true, unless proven otherwise.
Of course, a lot of the time their statements are so vague that it's
completely impossible to classify them as either truth or lies. A
Scientology spokesman would never have made a speech about Sadam Hussein
and Iraq. He'd have talked about some unnamed dictator of some unnamed
country somewhere in or near the Middle East, who'd done some vaguely
described Bad Things at some unspecified time. Besides the perpetual lying,
the perpetual maddening vagueness is another striking feature of
Scientology propaganda.
Both characteristics, of course, originate from the personality traits of
Hubbard, a man seemingly incapable of telling a truth, and also a man who
didn't really know much about anything -- so he just made up vaguely worded
stuff that nobody could check. Like all cults, Scientology is very much a
self-portrait of the founding guru.
Skipper
<pilt...@ivehaditwiththespam.sorry> wrote:
> Boudewijn van Ingen <bo...@xs4all.nl> wrote...
>
> > On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:56:58 -0500, "Tom Hens"
> > <tom....@iname.com.DELETE.THIS.BIT> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the monniker confusion -- for reasons that are much too boring to
> explain, a long time ago I started using the "Piltdown Man" nom de plume
> here, and I sometimes forget to switch from my real name which I use in
> some other newsgroups. I've thought several times of ditching the
> pseudonym, it's not as if my real name is a secret, but in a weird way I've
> grown fond of the old coot over the years.
Tom Hens? As in "chickens"?
Piltdown Man
Skipper <skipsp...@charter.invalid> wrote...
Oh, aren't you original and witty. I've never heard that one before,
especially not from ignorant Americans on Usenet who like to laugh at
foreigners whose names they can't even pronounce. (Not that it matters,
after all, I don't care either that Skip is burdened with the name of a
fictional low-budget TV kangaroo, but it's pronounced like the English word
"hence". It's etymologically identical to names like "Henson" or
"Henderson".)
I'm beginning to understand why two of your three credits as a writer were
for obscure cable TV shows for children, one twenty years ago, and one ten
years ago. You do seem to have the level of wit appropriate to that age
bracket. (The third one is for a VHS tape from 20 years ago that appears to
be, for all practical purpose, a home movie made by you with some of your
then Scientology buddies.)
By the way, when are you finally going to post that list of all your *real*
screen credits, beyond those three marginal ones the IMDB has, to show that
you are indeed a Hollywood screen writer? Because until you do that, I'm
afraid I will have to persist in my opinion that you aren't a screen writer
at all, and that all your stories about your supposed Hollywood celebrity
pals, those people you "hang with", have the same level of believability as
Hubbard's stories about his war record.
RolandRB
wrote:
> Skipper <skipspaml...@charter.invalid> wrote...
> > In article <01c7abc1$84f90aa0$LocalHost@gateway>, Piltdown Man
>
> > > Boudewijn van Ingen <b...@xs4all.nl> wrote...
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's put you in your place, Skip!
<snark> :o)
Rev. Norle Enturbulata, COD
"RolandRB" <rolan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181818773.0...@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
The pathetic bit about the above is that one or more Scientology slaves were
put to work compiling selective information about Skip, with additional help
to construct the above attack.
--
http://xenutv.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/panorama-scientology-and-me/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2535187,00.html
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology
http://xenu.com-it.net/txt/ildikoe.htm
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
* "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All
mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
Jommy Cross
<not-ear...@nor-hotmail.com> wrote in msg
<467125af$1...@news2.lightlink.com>:
<snip>
>The pathetic bit about the above is that one or more Scientology slaves were
>put to work compiling selective information about Skip, with additional help
>to construct the above attack.
The slaves compiled the selective information by looking on imdb? The
fiends!
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
RolandRB
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:24:16 +0100, "Rev. Norle Enturbulata, COD"
> <467125a...@news2.lightlink.com>:
> <snip>>The pathetic bit about the above is that one or more Scientology slaves were
> >put to work compiling selective information about Skip, with additional help
> >to construct the above attack.
>
> <snip>
>
> The slaves compiled the selective information by looking on imdb? The
> fiends!
The slithering salty clam sneaks !!!
Piltdown Man
Jommy Cross <jommycross@[127.1]> wrote...
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:24:16 +0100, "Rev. Norle Enturbulata, COD"
> <not-ear...@nor-hotmail.com> wrote in msg
> <467125af$1...@news2.lightlink.com>:
> <snip>
> >The pathetic bit about the above is that one or more Scientology slaves
> >were put to work compiling selective information about Skip, with
> >additional help to construct the above attack.
> <snip>
>
> The slaves compiled the selective information by looking on imdb? The
> fiends!
Yes, I've really been rumbled, haven't I? Here I had this wonderfully
lucrative double scam going. On the one hand, I got my monthly ARSCC
cheques from Carnegie-Mellon Bank (plus expenses, a dental plan and all the
Prozac I can eat), while on the other hand, I got my weekly OSA cheque
every Thursday (plus a replacement 9V battery for my meter whenever I need
one -- I have to send in the dead one first of course), and a support staff
of Scientology slaves to do my research. I guess I'll have to start looking
for new employment now.
The great thing is: neither side still has any clue as to who I ~really~
work for...