Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
FauxReal59
Post here regarding the history of African Americans in $cientology.
Suggested topics:
- Is Mel King really serving his constituency?
- Does Alfreddie Johnson really have a "church?"
l.l.lipshitz
FauxReal59 <fauxr...@aol.com> writes in article
<19980315222...@ladder03.news.aol.com>:
>Suggested topics:
from (admittedly holey) memory, johnson did have a
church in compton (cos spokesperson cory brennan,
of some infamy here on ars a couple yrs ago, posted
at least one msg about johnson's congregation) but
has given it up for his scn-related speaking
engagements. i read this recently but don't remember
where....i *did* save it tho, so i just need to dig
it out.
i also read a couple items indicating that the rev.
is in fact a scieno. one that i remember was an article
from a memphis paper from about 3 yrs ago (about the
opening of the martin luther king center and the
world literacy campaign agenda in place therein). i'll
dig up that ref, too. anyway, it said that johnson
had 'taken scn courses' or words to that effect. there
was another more definite mention of his scieno status
elsewhere but again, it's just a vague memory and i'll
have to go looking thru the stuff i've got.
sorry to be so fuzzy....been collecting interesting
tidbits but haven't organized them yet.
-elle
____________________________________________________________
l.l.lipshitz
elkube-at-akamail-dot-com
WONDERFULR
>Subject: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
>From: fauxr...@aol.com (FauxReal59)
>Date: Sun, Mar 15, 1998 17:21 EST
>Message-id: <19980315222...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
>
>Post here regarding the history of African Americans in $cientology.
>
>
Am I missing something here? Isaac Hayes is a Scientologist who is a black
man.
A critic says "house negro" and it is okay because it is all in good fun?
After all, it is attacking Scientology and THAT can't be bad.
You are a piece of shit.
Ray Randolph
Russ,
Why have you not removed the claim on your libelous page that Grady Ward was
responsible for the scamizdat postings? You were notified of your error and
sent a correction MONTHS ago.
-Ray
Gregg Hagglund
In article <slrn6gtig...@submarine.yellow.org>,
Is...@yellow.submarine.pla (Isaac) wrote:
>In article <19980317113...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, WONDERFULR wrote:
>>
>>Am I missing something here? Isaac Hayes is a Scientologist who is a black
>>man.
>>
>>A critic says "house negro" and it is okay because it is all in good fun?
>>After all, it is attacking Scientology and THAT can't be bad.
>>
>>You are a piece of shit.
>
>As much as I hate to agree with WONDERFULR, I have to say that he's right
>about this. It's certainly the case that Isaac Hayes, although in my
>view misguided, is honestly sincere about his views on scientology.
>
>I'm a little less charitable than WONDERFULR because I don't believe the
>sentiment was expressed in fun. There are some depths too low to stoop
>to. This was too low for my taste.
>
>Isaac (no relation)
Stupidity, cupidity and duplicity know no racial bounds.
Mr. Hayes, while somewhat talented, is just another Celeb
pawn for the Co$. Sincere or not.
That said, I too, agree with Russ the appelation of 'House Negro'
is distasteful in the extreme and bespeaks a personal level of
casual racial prejudice more fitting of the followers of Hubbard
rather than the critics.
It was offensive, IMHO, not humourous; distasteful, not tasteless.
I believe an apology is in order.
<<<oo{ At Constant Cause Over the toronto org.}oo>>>
oo>>>{ And sentenced to Death for this SP Act. }<<<oo
["You know, people die if they criticize scientology -
I should take care if I were you."
-Marcus Nyman, OSA (former GO), $cio-org, Stockholm, Sweden.]
Gregg Hagglund SP5
http://www.cgocable.net/~elrond
--
" I'm sure it's obvious to all who read my stuff, that I have
serious problems when it comes to being able to communicate."
- -RonsAmigo, Official OSA Shill on ARS
Download the latest Xemu Flyer:
http://www.cgocable.net/~elrond/2-1ZipArch.html
Isaac
Starshad
Another one I missed the original of. I don't know who said this originally
but if it is intended to be humor it is in poor taste. Wonderfulr is correct
here. I don't like that in a cult apologist, and I don't like racism in the
critics.
I hope whoever posted it originally will have the integrity to apologize.
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow SP4
WONDERFULR
>Subject: To WONDERFULR
>From: Ray Randolph <ra...@delete.these.fields.ezlink.com>
>Date: Tue, Mar 17, 1998 11:15 EST
>Message-id: <6em7ji$b...@drn.newsguy.com>
Ray,
(Aside from the fact that this is off topic for this thread) WHO notified me?
Grady did not give me any communication on the subject (at least none that I
ever received). Someone writing me and saying "X isn't true, remove it" isn't
going to do it. If that is the standard, then get all the critics to agree to
that for their pages, as well, and you've got a deal.
>
WONDERFULR
>Subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
>From: elr...@cgo.wave.ca (Gregg Hagglund)
>Date: Tue, Mar 17, 1998 20:43 EST
>Message-id: <elrond-ya02408000...@news.cgocable.net>>>In article <19980317113...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, WONDERFULR
>wrote:
>>>
>>>Am I missing something here? Isaac Hayes is a Scientologist who is a black
>>>man.
>>>
>>>A critic says "house negro" and it is okay because it is all in good fun?
>>>After all, it is attacking Scientology and THAT can't be bad.
>>>
>>>You are a piece of shit.
>>
>>As much as I hate to agree with WONDERFULR, I have to say that he's right
>>about this. It's certainly the case that Isaac Hayes, although in my
>>view misguided, is honestly sincere about his views on scientology.
>>
>>I'm a little less charitable than WONDERFULR because I don't believe the
>>sentiment was expressed in fun. There are some depths too low to stoop
>>to. This was too low for my taste.
>>
>>Isaac (no relation)
> Mr. Hayes, while somewhat talented, is just another Celeb
>pawn for the Co$. Sincere or not.
>
> That said, I too, agree with Russ the appelation of 'House Negro'
>is distasteful in the extreme and bespeaks a personal level of
>casual racial prejudice more fitting of the followers of Hubbard
>rather than the critics.
In all the years I've been in Scientology I have never observed age, race or
gender to play any part in determining the value of a person.
I admit, my experience is limited to the United States, but spans a quarter of
a century. This has been true for public and staff - Missions, orgs and the
Sea Org. I have never seen race be a factor. Ever. The person who wrote the
original post (Mark - the writer of the Spy Magazine article) seemed to me, to
be to be a racist, based on his remark.
One of the main things one learns from Scientology is that the individual is a
spiritual being who HAS a body. The color of that body is not relevant.
>
> It was offensive, IMHO, not humourous; distasteful, not tasteless.
>
> I believe an apology is in order.
>
Thank you.
LilAlex742
Despite his nasty bigot's page, Russ points out:
>Am I missing something here? Isaac Hayes is a Scientologist who is a black
>man.
>
>A critic says "house negro" and it is okay because it is all in good fun?
>After all, it is attacking Scientology and THAT can't be bad.
Got to agree with Russ on this one. Now, Russ--about your bigot's page!
LilAlex
Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our finest asset and gives us
more protection than any other single asset. If certain parties thought we
were real we would have infinitely more trouble
-- L. Ron Hubbard
Scott A. McClare
WONDERFULR (wonde...@aol.com) writes:
>>Why have you not removed the claim on your libelous page that Grady Ward was
>>responsible for the scamizdat postings? You were notified of your error and
>>sent a correction MONTHS ago.
> (Aside from the fact that this is off topic for this thread) WHO notified me?
> Grady did not give me any communication on the subject (at least none that I
> ever received). Someone writing me and saying "X isn't true, remove it" isn't
> going to do it.
Oh, poor WonderFool. "Nobody told me it was wrong." Whine whine whine.
I guess it never occurred to you NOT TO LIE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Russ Shaw. Liar and libeller. Emulating his Personal Saviour, L. Ron
Hubbard, aka Ron the Con, in every way possible.
If he'll lie as part of his religious practice, what else will he lie about?
Scott
--
Scott A. McClare SP4 GGBC#42 "I see you now and then in dreams
cj...@freenet.carleton.ca Your voice sounds just like it used to
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~cj871/ I believe I will hear it again
PGP 1024/E7950B29 via finger/keyserver God how I love you" - Mark Heard
© Anti-Cult ®
On 18 Mar 1998 07:55:52 GMT.
wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR).
From: AOL http://www.aol.com.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro":
[snipped down to the essentials]
>In all the years I've been in Scientology I have never observed...
[snipped]
I know Russ, nice to hear you admit it. :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Somebody some day will say 'this is illegal'. By then be sure
the orgs say what is legal or not."
-- L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 4 January 1966
------------------------------------------------------------------
***** Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! ******
********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm **********
*** Public PGP key: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/pgp.htm ***
****** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) *******
------------------------------------------------------------------
Victimized by the Co$. "Deadfiled" in at least one Org. Seen too
much, heard to much, lived too much. Security Coded hard disks
too much. Have been reading NOTS too much. Having chronic
pneumonia. As Arnold said: I'll be back......
------------------------------------------------------------------
The Ray Randolph Problem
On 18 Mar 1998 07:45:51 GMT, wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR) wrote:
>>Why have you not removed the claim on your libelous page that Grady Ward was
>>responsible for the scamizdat postings? You were notified of your error and
>>sent a correction MONTHS ago.
>
>(Aside from the fact that this is off topic for this thread) WHO notified me?
>Grady did not give me any communication on the subject (at least none that I
>ever received). Someone writing me and saying "X isn't true, remove it" isn't
>going to do it. If that is the standard, then get all the critics to agree to
>that for their pages, as well, and you've got a deal.
I notified you. I sent you mail on the subject, and gave you my name
as the replacement for Grady's. Who is rshaw@dancris? Why don't you
receive mail that's sent there? Who does?
-Ray
--
Michael Ray Randolph -- ra...@ezlink.com -- SP4 w/Clam Cluster
Unemployed German Psychiatrist, Private Investigator, Prozac abuser, and rogue
agent aiding in the suppression of silly cults.
$cientology KILLS T-shirts http://www.scientology-kills.net/t-shirt/
Gregg Hagglund
In article <199803180755...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR) wrote:
(snip)
>> Stupidity, cupidity and duplicity know no racial bounds.
>> Mr. Hayes, while somewhat talented, is just another Celeb
>>pawn for the Co$. Sincere or not.
>>
>> That said, I too, agree with Russ the appelation of 'House Negro'
>>is distasteful in the extreme and bespeaks a personal level of
>>casual racial prejudice more fitting of the followers of Hubbard
>>rather than the critics.
>
>In all the years I've been in Scientology I have never observed age, race or
>gender to play any part in determining the value of a person.
>
>I admit, my experience is limited to the United States, but spans a quarter of
>a century. This has been true for public and staff - Missions, orgs and the
>Sea Org. I have never seen race be a factor. Ever. The person who wrote the
>original post (Mark - the writer of the Spy Magazine article) seemed to me, to
>be to be a racist, based on his remark.
>
>One of the main things one learns from Scientology is that the individual is a
>spiritual being who HAS a body. The color of that body is not relevant.
>
>>
>> It was offensive, IMHO, not humourous; distasteful, not tasteless.
>>
>> I believe an apology is in order.
>>
>
>Thank you.
I was not presuming to render an apology, but if you take it that way
that's ok.<grin>
Russ, seriously, when are you going to realise the critics are less
concerned about the people than about the product, processes,
policies, politics and program that these people perpetuate?
Paul
Starshad wrote:
> Another one I missed the original of. I don't know who said this originally
> but if it is intended to be humor it is in poor taste. Wonderfulr is correct
> here. I don't like that in a cult apologist, and I don't like racism in the
> critics.
>
> I hope whoever posted it originally will have the integrity to apologize.
And much as I hate "me, too" postings, that's all I can say to this. I
agree completely with Starshadow.
-Paul
Tilman Hausherr
In <19980315222...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, fauxr...@aol.com
(FauxReal59) wrote:
>Post here regarding the history of African Americans in $cientology.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Hubbard's boy Jamble
From: ao...@yfn.ysu.edu (Diane Richardson)
Date: 30 Jun 1995 04:12:42 GMT
Kim Baker writes:
Dear Anonymous,
You wouldn't happen to have more specific details of this,
please? Such as Bulletin no, tape, extract from old mag, etc?
You see, here in South Africa, *some* people are trying
to make out like they opposed apartheid all along.
I can't help you with the citation to that excerpt, Kim, but
here's another one you might like to make note of. Ron
Newman might like to add this to his "Isaac Hayes Collection"
as well. It is taken from Professional Auditor's Bulletin
No. 119, 1st September 1957, "The Big Auditing Problem," as
published in "Level 0 PABS," by L. Ron Hubbard (c1968, The
American St. Hill Organization), pages 80-81:
"In North Africa they had the Arab with the gun and whip, but
he could force people to do things a gun and a whip [sic] and
he accomplished a tremendous amount of extermination, but he
certainly didn't advance that civilization very much. In
South Africa they had a bit of the whip but everybody just
gave up. The South African native is probably the one
impossible person to train in the entire world--he is probably
impossible by any human standard. I'll give you an example.
A South African native is being shown how to sow crops and he
has a basket, and he's got some seed, and he's walking along
back of the harrow disc--and he is supposed to throw seed out
this way, seed out this way, seed out that way, seed out this
way. A white man is riding a little tractor that's pulling
the disc and scraping the soil for the seed. And this scene
was enacted and was witnessed and was told to me with
considerable hilarity as some kind of learning rate. The
white man was sitting on the little tractor pulling the harrow,
the native along behind him, sowing the ssed straight down
in handfuls on the ground. The white man got off the tractor,
came back to the native, took the basket away from him, put
his hand in the basket, threw it to the right, put his hand
in the basket, threw it to the left, and gave it back to the
native. And the native waited, the white man got on the
tractor, drove along, and the native took a handful out of the
basket and threw it straight on the ground. So the white man
got off the tractor, came back, took the basket away from the
native, showed the native, throw it to the right, throw it
to the left, gave it back to the native, took him [sic] seat
again on the tractor, the native followed along behind, took
handsful and threw it straight on the ground! And this went
on for a very long time. The native never did throw any
handsful of seed to the right and left. Never did. That is
farming in South Africa.
Now did anything ever come along and change that? Yes. Man
had to cease to be Homo Sapiens and had to become Homo
Scientologicus in order to accomplish any action that was
anywhere near efficient in South Africa. And we have had
some auditors in South Africa who have actually succeeded in
training natives easily and well and have successfully
managed large organizations there. That's certainly something.
Now with these people it was still possible to get something
done. But what had this native done? Was this native what
we think of as primitive stock? No, we make a great many
mistakes. We say a child is in a "native state". A native
is in a "native state". People are in a barbaric condition
and then they grow up and become civilized. How do we know
that this barbaric condition isn't a retrogression from a
highly civilized condition back to an Only One category?
How do we know that isn't true? How do we know that that
native didn't at one time achieve a great civilization of
culture which then collapsed on him and he went back into a
state of being a barbarian?
But the point is, is this true that a native is in a clearer
state, and is it true that it requires Livingness to advance
somebody in that crude state up to a condition of ability?
No, that is not ture. The child, the primitive, the native,
are in retrograded states. They are worse off than
somebody who is at a civilized or thinking or analytical
level."
Hubbard goes on in this PAB to explain how children and
psychotics are identical because they share identical
"delusions", although children grow out of them while
psychotics remain locked in them. Hubbard appears to be
attempting to make the point that psychotics, "natives",
and children should all be treated in a similar manner.
He concludes by stating:
"But all I am telling you is that children, South African
natives, and now the entirety of this world in which we are
living, presents to us an auditing problem. We are rich
in being able to understand what is happening in our
environment and we are rich also in knowing exactly how
to handle such a circumstance or condition. Nobody knew
before. That is factually true here on Earth."
I think you'll agree that, in spite of Hubbard's tortured
writing style, his disdain for what he calls "native" or
"primitive" or "barbaric" people shines through the
rhetoric brightly.
Diane Richardson
ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Love That Ron!
From: bmy...@ionet.net (TarlaStar)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:12:15 GMT
From "Scientology, fundamentals of Thought"
page 30:
"IDENTITY AND ATTENTION
One 'needs' an identity to play the game, as covered later, but mainly
to 'get attention."
A being looks at things. To balance the flow of his attention, he
feels he must also be looked at. Thus he becomes attention-hungry.
Unlike yellow and brown people, the white does not usually believe he
can get attention from matter or objects. The yellow and brown believe
for the most part (and it is all a matter of consideration) that
rocks, trees, walls etc. can give them attention. The white man seldom
believes this and so is likely to become anxious about people.
Thus the white saves people, prevents famine, flood, disease and
revolution for people as the only purveyors of attention are scarce.
The white goes further. He often believes had can get attention only
from whites and that yellow and brown peoples' attention is worthless.
Thus the yellow and brown races are not very progressive but by and
large, saner. And the white race is progressive but more frantic. The
yellow and brown races do not understand white concern for 'bad
conditions' since what a few million dead men? There are plenty of
identities and there is plenty of attention, they think. The white
can't understand them. Nor can they understand the white."
I was going to point out all the racism and faulty thinking here, but
I think you can do that for yourselves.
--
Reverend Mutha Tarla, Little Sisters of the Perpetually Juicy,
A Proud Jism Schism of the Church of the SubGenius, Worshipping
"Connie" Dobbs and Juicy Retardo since 1986
http://www.ionet.net/~bmyers/homepage.html
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Scientology and Zulus (was Re: Scientology is Deflating (was Re: Expansion News))
From: rne...@kalypso.cybercom.net (Ron Newman)
Date: 19 Mar 1996 10:09:48 -0500
In article <4iljbe$s...@crl8.crl.com>, Andrew Milne <mi...@crl.com> wrote:
>* In the last dozen or so years in Africa, Dianetics groups have been
>established in countries including Sierra Leone, Ethiopia, Ghana,
>Liberia, Djibouti, Cameroon and Benin Republic
How long do you think those groups are gonig to stay together after
they read this?
Primitive societies, being subject to much mauling by
the elements, have many more occasions for injury than
civilized societies. Further, such primitive societies
are alive with false data. Further, their practice of
medicine and mental healing is on a very aberrative level
by itself. The number of engrams in a Zulu would be
astonishing. Moved out of his restimulative area and
taught English he would escape the penalty of much of his
reactive data; but in his native habitat the Zulu is only
outside the bars of a madhouse because there are no madhouses
provided by his tribe. It is a safe estimate and one
based on better experience than is generally available to
those who base conclusions on "modern man" by studying
primitive races that primitives are far more aberrated
than civilized peoples. Their savageness, their unprogressiveness,
their incidence of illness all stem from their reactive
patterns, not from their inherent personalities. Measuring
one set of aberrees by another set of aberrees is not likely
to lead to much data. And the contagion of aberration,
being much greater in a primitive tribe, and the falsity
of the superstitious data in the engrams of such a tribe
both lead to a conclusion which, observed on the scene,
is carried out by actuality.
--- L Ron Hubbard,in _Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health_,
Book 2, Chapter 8 ("Contagion of Aberration"), paragraph 9
I bet your Inkatha friends in South Africa dropped you like a
hot potato after they discovered this quote.
--
Ron Newman rne...@cybercom.net
Web: http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/home.html
========
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From: Kim Baker <KBA...@uctlib.uct.ac.za>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Hubbard's prejudice against Zulus
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 18:05:19 GMT
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In Hubbard's own words, an extract from: "Dianetics: The modern
science of mental health", Book 2, Chapter 8 ("Contagion of
Aberration"), paragraph 9:
"Primitive societies, being subject to much mauling by
the elements, have many more occasions for injury than
civilized societies. Further, such primitive societies
are alive with false data. Further, their practice of
medicine and mental healing is on a very aberrative level
by itself. The number of engrams in a Zulu would be
astonishing. Moved out of his restimulative area and
taught English he would escape the penalty of much of his
reactive data; but in his native habitat the Zulu is only
outside the bars of a madhouse because there are no madhouses
provided by his tribe. It is a safe estimate and one
based on better experience than is generally available to
those who base conclusions on "modern man" by studying
primitive races that primitives are far more aberrated
than civilized peoples. Their savageness, their
unprogressiveness, their incidence of illness all stem from their
reactive
patterns, not from their inherent personalities. Measuring
one set of aberrees by another set of aberrees is not likely
to lead to much data. And the contagion of aberration,
being much greater in a primitive tribe, and the falsity
of the superstitious data in the engrams of such a tribe
both lead to a conclusion which, observed on the scene,
is carried out by actuality."
South African citizens from the Zulu nation find this highly
offensive, patronising and out-right racist. The rich body of
ancestral traditions, ceremonies and culture of the Zulu people are
admired the world over. The picture that Hubbard has painted of the
Zulu nation reveals an alarming ignorance and ability to comprehend
a cultural tradition that is not his own. If his ability to
understand the Zulu nation was that erroneous, how then his ability
to observe and dictate a "philosophy of mind"?
Kim Baker
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Extraordinary racist rant by L. Ron Hubbard
From: c...@romeo-klive.nvg.ntnu.no (Chris Owen)
Date: 1 Apr 1997 19:20:43 GMT
--------
I've already shown that the founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard, was an overt
racist. Witness his description of the Chinese as "Chinks ... who smell of
all the baths they haven't taken" and of black Africans as "degraded"
primitives who could nonetheless be usefully employed by "understanding
masters" (i.e. white Scientologists). He was also very strongly in favour of
"Anglo-Saxon thought" and against "Euro-Russian philosophies". But I was
surprised, even so, to hear the following extraordinary racist rant on one of
his taped lectures. Because his lectures were note-less, stream-of-
consciousness affairs, they give an unrivalled insight into Hubbard's thought
processes. The lecture in question is "The Control of Hysteria", given on
15th April 1957. Today it is distributed as tape #10 of the "Radiation and
Your Survival" pack (price approximately $300). In the middle of a lecture
about atomic radiation, Hubbard suddenly starts discussing the Middle East:
"Do you know, there's only one group on Earth that can do anything about
the Middle East - Scientologists ... A Scientologist would have to group-
process the living daylights out of the Arabs [before] you'd get them
finally able to accept some aid and assistance. How would you go about it?
Well, you'd get some Arabs that could speak English and you'd educate the
living daylights out of them until you could group-process them well ...
Now we say there's, well, another place in the world - there's India.
Wonderful place - except for its people. What's the matter with those
people? Can you help those people? No. You can't even govern them any
more. Anyone who goes in to govern India has great difficulty. Why?
Because its people are beyond the point of no return by past technologies.
Nothing man knew could have pulled up by the boot straps the Untouchable of
India. Certainly not the Indian philosophies. They're all oriented in the
direction of slavery and more slavery."
--
| Chris Owen | c...@nvg.unit.no |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| WORLD'S BIGGEST SPECTRUM ARCHIVE -- http://www.nvg.unit.no/sinclair |
========
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Hubbard on Hypnosis
From: arms...@ntonline.com (gerry armstrong)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 18:59:26 GMT
--------
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:54:42 GMT, til...@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman
Hausherr) wrote:
>In <19970719080...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, rons...@aol.com
>(RonsAmigo) wrote:
>
>>Even casual inspection of the actual practices of "auditing"
>>and the actual practices of hypnotism, reveal that there are
>>far far more differences than similarities between
>>these two subjects. To suggest they are identical but use
>>different terms is just silly. It doesn't matter how many
>>Hubbard quotes you conveniently interpret or how many
>>footnotes you stack up.
>
>You have not disproved a single allegation. In fact, I doubt you have read the
>document.
>
>You just say that "whatever the document says, it isn't true, because it isn't
>true for me".
>
>Btw you have still not answered my question from a few months ago about what the
>differen[ce] between Hubbard and an anti-black bigot is.
I will. There are far more similarities than differences.
Hubbard's first wife wrote to him complaining of her having to do all
the housework (while he was gallivanting somewhere).
Hubbard wrote back, "You shouldn't be scrubbing the floor on your
hands and knees. Get yourself a nigger; that's what they're born
for."
The cult has this letter. They can provide the exact quote if there's
any deviation from what I've said.
This is the same guy who brought us, "All men are my slaves."
========
Path: unlisys!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!infeed1.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: wesf...@aol.com (WESFAGER)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Ron, the racist
Date: 17 Aug 1997 03:41:16 GMT
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <19970817034...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
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References: <340e6562...@news.snafu.de>
Xref: unlisys alt.religion.scientology:327976
--------
>Tilman wrote that ...
>A person complained about a racist quote from Hubbard
>I had on the web.
You might ask him what Hubbard meant furhter on in Fundamentals of Thought
(p. 93 in 1988 edition) when he wrote:
"Just as individuals can bee seen, by observing nations, so we see the
African tribesman, with his complete contempt for the truth and his
emphasis on brutality and savergery for others but not himself, is a
no-cilivilation."
Nah, don't ask him. I'm sure he can weasle out of it.
Wes Fager
Ted Mayett (KOX)
I am FWDing this post, I did not write it.
------
WONDERFULR <wonde...@aol.com> writes in article
<199803180755...@ladder03.news.aol.com>:
>>Subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
>>From: elr...@cgo.wave.ca (Gregg Hagglund)
<snip> [I hope I got the attributions right...]
>> It was offensive, IMHO, not humourous; distasteful, not
tasteless.
>>
>> I believe an apology is in order.
>>
>Thank you.
The subject line of this thread is rude and offensive,
indeed, and certainly requires an apology.
So when will Co$ apologize for *using* Isaac Hayes in
this offensive manner??
Hayes may be quite sincere in his Scientological beliefs
but he is also quite deluded. He says, "...you don't have
to join the Church of Scientology or become a member.
Scientology is non-denominational. It's a religious
philosophy."
Only celebrities are allowed to apply the "religious
philosophy" without "joining" because they pay in other
ways. Hayes is nothing more than a trained pony that
Scientology trots out to impress the guests. Perhaps this
is a less offensive metaphor than "House Negro" but the
fact remains that Hayes is being USED by the "Church."
While not defending the subject line phrase, I don't find
it particularly troubling in a racist sense. Hyperbole is
easily dealt with --and dismissed. Does anyone here take
seriously WONDERFULR's bigots page?? It's the small stuff
that's insidious, the seemingly innoucuous little things
that go unnoticed and unchallenged that continue to prop
up racism.
The mention of Mark Ebner in several of the L.A. picket
reports prompted me to dig out his Spy Magazine article on
Scientology and read it again. Ebner strikes me as a fellow
who likes to poke the hornet's nest to see what flies out.
So maybe he got stung this time, I don't know. Until he
demonstrates otherwise, though, I'll assign his motivations
to his "in your face" journalistic style rather than to any
racist agenda.
It is the "Church" that owes the apology, which Ebner
merely points out with his admittedly rude phrasing.
----
--
Ted Mayett OT 1.1
http://xenu.phys.uit.no/cgi-bin/globloc.cgi
FauxReal59
"House Negro" is a common expression, historically used by blacks about other
blacks who have "sold out," or subjugated themselves to the white man. Pardon
my appropriation of terms much better discussed at length by black scholars
such as Cornell West (Race Matters). Would those so quick to accuse me of
racism have preferred if I called Hayes an "Uncle Tom?" No skin off my white
ass here -- I take this shit all the time. When I wrote the "Gay Mafia In
Hollywood" story for Spy, I was wrongly accused of being homophobic by similar
self-righteous idiots.
Isaac Hayes is a "house negro" for Scientology. The cult rolled out the red
carpet for him when his career was in the pits. They gave him the royal
treatment, providing him with 1st class lodging at the Celebrity Centre. Since
he's been in residence, Hayes has played host to the racist Louis Farrakhan and
his Nation Of Islam "brothers" on the premises. He has sexually harrassed a
now ex-Scieno, who -when she reported him - was brought up on ethics charges.
Hayes got room service, she - not being an Opinion Leader - got reprimanded.
Beyond all that, I stand by my original post, and again I ask -- Who is
Alfreddie Johnson, and where is his alleged church? What is up with Mel King's
cowtowing to the cult like the bamboozled Alphonse D'Amato did at those
Congressional hearings where the celebrities rambled like retards?
I guess that a comparison could be made between the homophobic, "Bantu"-baiting
Hubbard and the gay bashing Walt Disney, who, in his lifetime, presided over a
studio that employed legions of closeted gays. Hey. Hubbard tried to recruit
Disney, didn't he? What a surprise.
You really want to know why there are so few blacks in Scientology? Ask a
brother, not a "house negro." When I asked a cat on the street, he replied:
"Are you kidding me? Black folks can spot a shell game a mile away." That is
a quote that I cherish.
Mark Ebner SP4
Rob Clark
On 21 Mar 1998 09:32:19 GMT, fauxr...@aol.com (FauxReal59) wrote:
>"House Negro" is a common expression, historically used by blacks about other
>blacks who have "sold out," or subjugated themselves to the white man. Pardon
>my appropriation of terms much better discussed at length by black scholars
>such as Cornell West (Race Matters). Would those so quick to accuse me of
>racism have preferred if I called Hayes an "Uncle Tom?" No skin off my white
>ass here -- I take this shit all the time. When I wrote the "Gay Mafia In
>Hollywood" story for Spy, I was wrongly accused of being homophobic by similar
>self-righteous idiots.
no apologies needed, i think the original term is fine, and is entirely
appropriate to apply to hayes, johnson, and the losers at the NAACP who awarded
the racist l. ron hubbard an award in return for payola. i get the impression
if george lincoln rockwell went into an NAACP office wearing a klan robe and had
a wad of money, that they'd give HIM a fucking award, too.
rob
Robert Vaughn Young
WONDERFULR (wonde...@aol.com) wrote:
: >Subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
: >From: elr...@cgo.wave.ca (Gregg Hagglund)
: >Date: Tue, Mar 17, 1998 20:43 EST
: >Message-id: <elrond-ya02408000...@news.cgocable.net>
: >
snipping...
: In all the years I've been in Scientology I have never observed age, race or
: gender to play any part in determining the value of a person.
I cannot be believed for I am - according to "wgert" and the others at
Dept 20 - a "paid liar" so I won't comment how I saw no racial
discrimination as that would be a lie, right "wgert"? (How about some
scatological/sexual postings from you in the meantime?)
Dept 20 people are so pathetic in insisting that everything former members
say is a lie that they then cut us out from all comments.
However Mr. Wonderful's comment re no sexual discrimination shows he/she
was never at the upper echlons or he/she would know what "chick shit" is.
--
*----------------------------------------------*
Robert Vaughn Young * The most potent weapon of the oppressor is *
wri...@eskimo.com * the mind of the oppressed. - Steve Biko *
*----------------------------------------------*
Tashback
In article <6f1lgv$7g6$1...@eskinews.eskimo.com>, wri...@eskimo.com (Robert
Vaughn Young) wrote:
> WONDERFULR (wonde...@aol.com) wrote:
> snipping...
> : In all the years I've been in Scientology I have never observed age, race or
> : gender to play any part in determining the value of a person.
> I cannot be believed for I am - according to "wgert" and the others at
> Dept 20 - a "paid liar" so I won't comment how I saw no racial
> discrimination as that would be a lie, right "wgert"? (How about some
> scatological/sexual postings from you in the meantime?)
>
> Dept 20 people are so pathetic in insisting that everything former members
> say is a lie that they then cut us out from all comments.
>
> However Mr. Wonderful's comment re no sexual discrimination shows he/she
> was never at the upper echlons or he/she would know what "chick shit" is.
From my worm's-eye-view, Russ's assertion seemed carefully worded. It's
possible that age, race, and gender don't play a part in determining the
"value" of a person within CoS (although reports about older people being
offloaded from SO offer an interesting counterpoint), but that doesn't
mean that racism isn't rampant in that organization. During my brief
immersion in Scientology-land -- a two-hour visit to the LA Celeb Centre's
restaurant and coffee shop -- I observed two blatant examples of racism.
1. The Scientologists at the neighboring table at the CC restaurant were
loudly and condescendingly discussing African-Americans' contribution to
American culture ("They're really good at music! They invented jazz! It
shows that everyone has something to offer!").
2. At the coffee shop, a Scientologist, upon being introduced to a person
with Asian features, went into a bizarre "Ah so!" routine, complete with
mock-Asian accent.
I think the terms "house negro," "uncle tom," etc., are offensive and
unfair -- the inherent implication is that a person, because of his skin
color, is obliged to follow a (usually political) party line, and that if
he diverges from it, he's betraying a racial obligation and deserves
ridicule. But I can't believe that in 25 years, Russ saw no examples of
racism in Scientology. I saw two within one very brief visit.
Tash
FauxReal59
Tashback posts:
<snip>
<<But I can't believe that in 25 years, Russ saw no examples of racism in
Scientology. I saw two within one very brief visit.>>
Yeah, well... after 25 years in - whether's he's in or out - "Russ" is still
brainwashed to the point where he can't tell black from white. Thank God RVY
snapped out of it, and Tash was never sucked in. I cordially invite the "man"
who called me a "piece of shit" to step to the plate.
Mark Ebner SP4
Tilman Hausherr
In <tashback-220...@ip-24-039.phx.primenet.com>,
tash...@primenet.com (Tashback) wrote:
>ridicule. But I can't believe that in 25 years, Russ saw no examples of
>racism in Scientology. I saw two within one very brief visit.
Me neither. But then, he follows the teachings of a well-known racist
without admitting this. It is rather likely that he is racist himself
but is too coward to admit it. He blatantly lied when he said that "One
of the main things one learns from Scientology is that the individual is
a spiritual being who HAS a body. The color of that body is not
relevant.":
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
In article <199803210932...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>You really want to know why there are so few blacks in Scientology? Ask a
>brother, not a "house negro." When I asked a cat on the street, he replied:
>"Are you kidding me? Black folks can spot a shell game a mile away." That is
>a quote that I cherish.
One needs some perspective on this. Scientology *is* an essentially
right-wing organisation which concentrates in better off areas and
selects better off people in them: if they are in a divided society
where this means black people are excluded and derided, that is the
result you will see in Scientology.
OTOH, in their less important outposts in less rich areas where they
don't always succeed in selecting the richest chumps, this also will
be reflected in the compostion and attitudes of Scientology; there
will be black people, and there won't be the same anti-black attitudes.
This applies in London(England), and probably New York.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
Martin Hunt
In article <199803220916...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
fauxr...@aol.com (FauxReal59) wrote:
>Tashback posts:
>
><snip>
>
><<But I can't believe that in 25 years, Russ saw no examples of racism in
>Scientology. I saw two within one very brief visit.>>
>
>Yeah, well... after 25 years in - whether's he's in or out - "Russ" is still
>brainwashed to the point where he can't tell black from white. Thank God RVY
>snapped out of it, and Tash was never sucked in. I cordially invite the "man"
>who called me a "piece of shit" to step to the plate.
I was in Scientology for 2 years, and I never saw any overt racism
in the cult. What I did see was a near-total lack of blacks in
the cult. That is because they are not sought after for recruitment,
not because they're somehow immune to the recruitment. :-)
The only black I can recall meeting in Scientology was Charles
Lakes, an olympic gymnast. That's one *white* cult in the middle
of a city with millions of blacks. Of course, Hubbard was a rabid
racist, and had nothing good to say about blacks. He despised
them. He hated Chinese, too. Typical racist.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
L. Ron Hubbard: "Clears do not get colds." - Dianetics.
David Miscavige: "I guess one could." - Koppel interview.
WONDERFULR
>Subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
>Date: Sun, Mar 22, 1998 04:16 EST
>Message-id: <199803220916...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
>
I cordially invite the
>"man"
>who called me a "piece of shit" to step to the plate.
>
>Mark Ebner SP4
>
>
I think you are a piece of shit, Mark. I know you are familiar with the
concept of 1.1 - or if you prefer a psychologist term - you could also be
referred to as passive - aggressive.
Either way, you are what you are.
I know you said here on ars you would not retract your statement of Isaac Hayes
being a house negro. I say you are liar and a coward. There is NO way you
would say anything like that TO Isaac Hayes. Or any black person (at least
under the age of 70).
Is that close enough to the plate for you?
Scott A. McClare
WONDERFULR (wonde...@aol.com) writes:
> I cordially invite the "man"
>>who called me a "piece of shit" to step to the plate.
> I think you are a piece of shit, Mark. I know you are familiar with the
> concept of 1.1 - or if you prefer a psychologist term - you could also be
> referred to as passive - aggressive.
1.1 refers to "covert hostility." I see no evidence that Mr. Ebner is
covertly hostile - in fact, he's OVERTLY hostile, which, as far as I can
tell, isn't covered by your cult's joke of a "tone scale."
If ANYONE is a raving 1.1 on this newsgroup, it's you, Russ Shaw, with
your oh-so-polite-I-give-cold-drinks-to-protestors-while-libelling-them-on-
my-web-page attitude.
When are you going to take responsibility for your lies, Russ? Doesn't
Scientology <tm> make you "better and more able" to take responsibility?
Or doesn't it count when the lies are in favour of Scientology <tm>?
Liar and hypocrite.
Anthony F. Roberts
In article <kGYF1Mdl...@islandnet.com>, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin
Hunt) wrote:
> I was in Scientology for 2 years, and I never saw any overt racism
> in the cult. What I did see was a near-total lack of blacks in
> the cult.
Funny you should mention that. The org I went to was in a city with a high
density of blacks (35-50%, much higher than the U.S. average), but I never
saw one going to a course at the org; i.e., no African-American scienos.
Anthony
--
"The Wrong Thing To Do Is Something." -- Xenu
"Japanese is a baby-talk." -- L. Ron Hubbard
FauxReal59
<<I think you are a piece of shit, Mark. I know you are familiar with the
concept of 1.1 - or if you prefer a psychologist term - you could also be
referred to as passive - aggressive.
Either way, you are what you are.>>
Allergic to yams, I eat clams for lunch. Lunch. Let's do it, Russ. I'll make
the drive to Phoenix. You'll know it's me when I tap you on the shoulder. Try
not to gag on your spoon.
<<I know you said here on ars you would not retract your statement of Isaac
Hayes being a house negro. I say you are liar and a coward. There is NO way
you would say anything like that TO Isaac Hayes. Or any black person (at least
under the age of 70)>>
Hey man, I call a spade a shovel. Let's dance. Shall we, Shirley?
<<Is that close enough to the plate for you?>>
Psst. Hey Russ -- you lost in the first round.
WONDERFULR
>Message-id: <199803240128...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
>
><<I think you are a piece of shit, Mark. I know you are familiar with the
>concept of 1.1 - or if you prefer a psychologist term - you could also be
>referred to as passive - aggressive.
>
>Either way, you are what you are.>>
>
>Allergic to yams, I eat clams for lunch. Lunch. Let's do it, Russ. I'll
>make
>the drive to Phoenix. You'll know it's me when I tap you on the shoulder.
I shouldn't be too hard to find. But that would be your style, to try and
sneak up on somebody.
>Try
>not to gag on your spoon.
Can't promise not to gag. But you are welcome to drive to Phoenix and tap me
on the shoulder.
I'll tap back. Lunch time or not.
>
><<I know you said here on ars you would not retract your statement of Isaac
>Hayes being a house negro. I say you are liar and a coward. There is NO way
>you would say anything like that TO Isaac Hayes. Or any black person (at
>least
>under the age of 70)>>
>
>Hey man, I call a spade a shovel. Let's dance. Shall we, Shirley?
I don't think you are that good a dancer, Mark. But maybe you could get away
with saying your shit (in person) to an ~elderly~ black. I know you wouldn't
say it to a young black man - and you know it too. Which was my original
point.
>
><<Is that close enough to the plate for you?>>
>
>Psst. Hey Russ -- you lost in the first round.
>
>
The game is over because you are standing in an empty field telling everyone
you won? Well, congratulations, Mark! I hope all of your victories are just
as sweet.
FauxReal59
PUSS SHAW POSTS:
<<I don't think you are that good a dancer, Mark. But maybe you could get away
with saying your shit (in person) to an ~elderly~ black. I know you wouldn't
say it to a young black man - and you know it too. Which was my original
point.>>
I would be happy to discuss the term "house negro" with *anyone,* clamidiot.
Your original "point" missed mine completely: "House Negro" is a term
originated by blacks to describe other blacks who have sold out to the white
man. Another apropos term would be "Uncle Tom." I appropriated the term
(PLEASE SUE ME) and pegged it to Isaac Hayes because he has clearly become a
traitor to his own race by shilling for $cientology -- the cult founded by the
Bantu-baiting racist/homophobe, Hubbard.
Dead-Agent me now.
Mark Ebner, SP4
CillyPuddi
In article <199804052217...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
fauxr...@aol.com (FauxReal59) writes:
>Subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
>From: fauxr...@aol.com (FauxReal59)
>Date: 5 Apr 1998 22:17:36 GMT
>
>PUSS SHAW POSTS:
>
><>
>
>I would be happy to discuss the term "house negro" with *anyone,* clamidiot.
>Your original "point" missed mine completely: "House Negro" is a term
>originated by blacks to describe other blacks who have sold out to the white
>man. Another apropos term would be "Uncle Tom." I appropriated the term
>(PLEASE SUE ME) and pegged it to Isaac Hayes because he has clearly become a
>traitor to his own race by shilling for $cientology -- the cult founded by
>the
>Bantu-baiting racist/homophobe, Hubbard.
>
>Dead-Agent me now.
>
>
>Mark Ebner, SP4
>
>
>
you know I was thinking that Isaac Hayes doesn't have it too bad. Here is a
black man with white slaves. Just as long as his old friends seeing him now
being served 3 square meals and a bed all, more than likely, pampered and
delivered by white sea org members giving him the shoe shine of his life, and
enjoying it all the while. Go figure.
______
The Pud
What ever else you do in this life: ask before you answer; look before you
discover and beyond all else question before you begin.
In Xenu we trust.
WONDERFULR
>Message-id: <199804052217...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
>
>
> PUSS SHAW POSTS:
Nice juvenile touch on the name Mark. Some of those valuable grade school
lessons are hard to let go of, huh?
>
> <<I don't think you are that good a dancer, Mark. But maybe you could get
> away
> with saying your shit (in person) to an ~elderly~ black. I know you wouldn'
> t
> say it to a young black man - and you know it too. Which was my original
> point.>>
>
> I would be happy to discuss the term "house negro" with *anyone,* clamidiot.
I can see here that you feel you MUST keep discussing it. After all, it is
something you wrote - so we *CAN'T* let go of that, can we?
>
> Your original "point" missed mine completely: "House Negro" is a term
> originated by blacks to describe other blacks who have sold out to the white
> man. Another apropos term would be "Uncle Tom." I appropriated the term
Your use of the term was racist no matter what you say. Isaac Hayes being in
Scientology has nothing to do with him being black - anymore than me being a
Scientologist has to do with me being white.
You were simply taking the facts that Hayes is black & a Scientologist and
attempting to make something out of it to denigrate Scientology and Isaac Hayes
(*because* he is a Scientologist). It was in poor taste and stupid to boot.
I certainly won't make the statement that there are no ~legitimate~ criticisms
of Scientology organizations. But if you have the idea that this is one of
them, you have a ~complete~ inability to think or observe.
A number of ars ~critics~ were offended by what you wrote and said so. (If any
doubt about this - look up the prior posts in this thread). There were a few
that agreed with you, I think they were wrong on this too.
It was uncalled for. Period.
> (PLEASE SUE ME) and pegged it to Isaac Hayes because he has clearly become a
> traitor to his own race by shilling for $cientology --
Again, this is an example of racist thinking on your part.
I say this because the race issue is only raised for black people. I've not
ever seen one of the "critics" complain that Scientologists of Irish decent or
Scientologists of Swedish decent were traitors to **THEIR** races.
You should apologize, plain and simple.
> Dead-Agent me now.
>
>
> Mark Ebner, SP4
>
You will dead agent yourself with a lack of an apology. Or be a man and step
up to the plate. With an apology.
Brent Stone
On 6 Apr 1998 06:12:40 GMT, wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR) wrote:
...
>I say this because the race issue is only raised for black people. I've not
>ever seen one of the "critics" complain that Scientologists of Irish decent or
>Scientologists of Swedish decent were traitors to **THEIR** races.
I don't recall that ElRong was bigoted against the Irish or Swedish. He
never, to my knowledge, said that the Irish were too stupid to read on an
E-meter, or said that the problem with Sweden was too many Swedes there.
On the other hand, a black or Chinese shilling for the cult should be more
aware of what they are selling. As with the 'House Negro', a token black
in a racist organization (and ElRong is Source, so never Rong), may be
getting a good deal himself, but it is at the expense of his fellows.
- Brent
Mike O'Connor
In article <199804060612...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR) wrote:
[...]
> I certainly won't make the statement that there are no ~legitimate~ criticisms
> of Scientology organizations. [...]
Name ONE. Name ONE legitimate criticism. If there are some, name ONE. Thanks!
Hey, remember that radio show where the host asked every Scientologist who
called in to say ONE bad thing about Scientology, big or small, just ONE
thing? No one could. -Mike
Martin Hunt
>>From: fauxr...@aol.com (FauxReal59)
>
>> PUSS SHAW POSTS:
>
>Nice juvenile touch on the name Mark. Some of those valuable grade school
>lessons are hard to let go of, huh?
Pshaw; you probably didn't even "get" it. Admit it. You didn't
get it, wonderfulr man.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
"It's easy to 'fall in love' with these guys. A lot of them are like
kids. No social veneer. If they have a win, they tell you, and if they
don't, they certainly don't pretend to. 'What you see is what you get'
with these guys. Watching two of them line charge the other night while
doing TR-0 bullbaiting over the size of one inmate's nose almost made
me go exterior!" - Lawy...@aol.com (Jim Jackson) talking about inmates
at Lorton, Virginia, being recruited into the Scientology cult via the
front group, Criminon.
WONDERFULR
>Subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
>Date: Mon, Apr 6, 1998 18:46 EDT
>Message-id: <DtMK1Mdl...@islandnet.com>
>
>In article <199804060612...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR) wrote:
>
>>>From: fauxr...@aol.com (FauxReal59)
>>
>>> PUSS SHAW POSTS:
>>
>>Nice juvenile touch on the name Mark. Some of those valuable grade school
>>lessons are hard to let go of, huh?
>
>Pshaw; you probably didn't even "get" it. Admit it. You didn't
>get it, wonderfulr man.
>
>
I admit it, I didn't "get" it. 8-)
Martin Hunt
In article <199804070213...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR) wrote:
>I admit it, I didn't "get" it. 8-)
Thank you.
Cerberus
Hiya Martin,
Hey Russ,
I got up this morning all grouchy, and then I stumbled through a post
by Enzo Piccone reeking with enough "applied religious philosophy"
afflatulence to gag a theosophical maggot, and then I read the day's
posts from wgert and "rod fletcher" and noticed that OSA has switched
'bot operators AGAIN to some feeb who doesn't know that after a
period, you space TWICE, and it pissed me off even more 'cause OSA
just won't leave one guy or gal on the spam accounts long enough to
develop a net personality, ferchrissakes, and then I started missin'
Woody, and then the day just went downhill from there...
Anyway, that's probably why I'm posting to this thread.
Our story so far: wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR), aka Russel Shaw,
has been sparring with Mark Ebner (FauxR...@aol.com) concerning
whether it is proper to refer to Isaac Hayes a "House Negro" shilling
for Scientology (clue: it ain't). Mark and Russ were goin' at it
nicely, callin' each other names and courageously gettin' ready to
commence fisticuffs just as soon as they could figure out how to do
that on the net, and SOME of us were enjoying the show and pesterin'
Don King for ringside tickets to the Phabulous Phaux-Phight in
Phoenix, when the irrepressible Martin Hunt chimed in as follows:
>I admit it, I didn't "get" it. 8-)
Pshaw yerself, Martin. *I* didn't get it either, and furthermore I
don't think that's what Mark meant.
First of all, "pshaw" is pronounced "puh-shaw." So if Mark had meant
to make a pun on "pshaw,"he SHOULD have written "PUS SHAW" -- which
would have been just as insulting AND would've included the correct
vowel sound to lead the reader to infer "pshaw."
However, Mark wrote "PUSS SHAW" -- "puss" as in "pussy," a perfectly
appropriate (albeit sexist and more than a little self-revelatory)
epithet, according to the Masculine Rules of Engagement, for one
snorting, pawing male to apply to another before they engage in the
Titanic Battle That Will (no doubt) Decide the Fate of A.R.S.
(Don King made me write that last part -- I'll do ANYthing for free
tickets.)
Anyway, Martin, "puss" has the wrong vowel and too much sibilance to
make the allusion to "pshaw" unless you pronounce it "poos-shaw,"
which you shouldn't unless yer willin' to step outside and say that.
So there.
Feh. What a suckly day. Ignore me -- I'm not myself today. I'm
probably one of the other heads -- one who didn't get up so early.
Yuck.
Cerberus
_____________
Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows.
The Tempest, Act II, Scene 2
cerb...@medusa.com------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In Germany they first came for the insane, raving, IQ-testing,
barratrous, money-laundering, tax-dodging cultists, and I didn't
speak up because I was not an insane, raving, IQ-testing, barratrous,
money-laundering, tax-dodging cultist. Then things got MUCH better,
and we're all fine now. Thanks for asking."
Pastor Martin Niemoller III (Germany, 2001)
http://www.xenu.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WONDERFULR
>Subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
>Date: Tue, Apr 7, 1998 07:27 EDT
>Message-id: <3529fc8f...@news.rmi.net>
>
>
>
>Hiya Martin,
>
>Hey Russ,
>
A big cheery hello to you, Cerberus!
>I got up this morning all grouchy, and then I stumbled through a post
>by Enzo Piccone reeking with enough "applied religious philosophy"
>afflatulence to gag a theosophical maggot,
I can see Enzo has already had a big effect on you. You are trying to copy his
writing style.
>Our story so far: wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR), aka Russel Shaw,
Russell - with 2 "Ls" please.
>has been sparring with Mark Ebner (FauxR...@aol.com) concerning
>whether it is proper to refer to Isaac Hayes a "House Negro" shilling
>for Scientology (clue: it ain't). Mark and Russ were goin' at it
>nicely, callin' each other names and courageously gettin' ready to
>commence fisticuffs just as soon as they could figure out how to do
>that on the net,
Which, all by itself, was kinda interesting. :-)
>and SOME of us were enjoying the show and pesterin'
>Don King for ringside tickets to the Phabulous Phaux-Phight in
>Phoenix, when the irrepressible Martin Hunt chimed in as follows:
>
>>>Subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
>>>From: mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt)
>>>Date: Mon, Apr 6, 1998 18:46 EDT
>>>Message-id: <DtMK1Mdl...@islandnet.com>
>>>
>>>In article <199804060612...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>>>wonde...@aol.com (WONDERFULR) wrote:
>>>
>>>>>From: fauxr...@aol.com (FauxReal59)
>>>>
>>>>> PUSS SHAW POSTS:
>>>>
>>>>Nice juvenile touch on the name Mark. Some of those valuable grade school
>>>>lessons are hard to let go of, huh?
>>>
>>>Pshaw; you probably didn't even "get" it. Admit it. You didn't
>>>get it, wonderfulr man.
>>
>>I admit it, I didn't "get" it. 8-)
>
>Pshaw yerself, Martin. *I* didn't get it either, and furthermore I
>don't think that's what Mark meant.
Neither did I. But once Martin asked, I wanted to give an honest answer, and I
*didn't* get it.
>
>First of all, "pshaw" is pronounced "puh-shaw." So if Mark had meant
>to make a pun on "pshaw,"he SHOULD have written "PUS SHAW" -- which
>would have been just as insulting AND would've included the correct
>vowel sound to lead the reader to infer "pshaw."
I think (my hindsight is perfect) I would have gotten that.
>
>However, Mark wrote "PUSS SHAW" -- "puss" as in "pussy," a perfectly
>appropriate (albeit sexist and more than a little self-revelatory)
>epithet, according to the Masculine Rules of Engagement, for one
>snorting, pawing male to apply to another before they engage in the
>Titanic Battle That Will (no doubt) Decide the Fate of A.R.S.
And the entire free world (at least as we know it now).
>
>(Don King made me write that last part -- I'll do ANYthing for free
>tickets.)
I may be able to get you ringside seats, no matter what Don King does. No way
am I signing a contract with King that does not include free tickets for me to
give out.
>
>Anyway, Martin, "puss" has the wrong vowel and too much sibilance to
>make the allusion to "pshaw" unless you pronounce it "poos-shaw,"
>which you shouldn't unless yer willin' to step outside and say that.
>So there.
I gotta tell you - when I see issues like this being handled here - I know this
*IS* worth my time.
It is only bad when it doesn't have the charm of deliberate nonsense.
>
>Feh. What a suckly day. Ignore me -- I'm not myself today. I'm
>probably one of the other heads -- one who didn't get up so early.
>
The other head (the bad one) might need some more rest.
>Yuck.
>
>Cerberus
R
Tashback
In article <3529fc8f...@news.rmi.net>, cerb...@medusa.com
(Cerberus) wrote:
> some feeb who doesn't know that after a
> period, you space TWICE
This inflammatory statement led to hours of rancorous debate on IRC.
Friendships were shattered, strategic alliances were destroyed, and
brother took up arms against brother, but truth finally prevailed: Let me
state for the record that in electronic communication, the rule is *one
space after a period*. Two spaces is for typewriters only.
Tash
CillyPuddi
>Subject: Re: Isaac Hayes = "House Negro"
>From: fauxr...@aol.com (FauxReal59)
>Date: 5 Apr 1998 22:17:36 GMT
>
>PUSS SHAW POSTS:
>
><>
>
>I would be happy to discuss the term "house negro" with *anyone,* clamidiot.
>Your original "point" missed mine completely: "House Negro" is a term
>originated by blacks to describe other blacks who have sold out to the white
>man. Another apropos term would be "Uncle Tom." I appropriated the term
>(PLEASE SUE ME) and pegged it to Isaac Hayes because he has clearly become a
>traitor to his own race by shilling for $cientology -- the cult founded by
>the
>Bantu-baiting racist/homophobe, Hubbard.
>
>Dead-Agent me now.
>
>
>Mark Ebner, SP4
>
>
>
you know I was thinking that Isaac Hayes doesn't have it too bad. Here is a
black man with white slaves. Just as long as his old friends seeing him now
being served 3 square meals and a bed all, more than likely, pampered and
delivered by white sea org members giving him the shoe shine of his life, and
enjoying it all the while. Go figure.
.
.
.
.___
WHIPPERSNAPPER
In article <tashback-100...@ip-25-062.phx.primenet.com>,
That is pure-dee unadulterated anti-Scientology propaganda.
And now I am utterly convinced that the evil bastard who designed HTML to
ignore double-spaces and display only one space after the period was a
filthy a.r.shole.
It's two spaces. I'll take that assertion to my grave and to hell with
you all.
- Whippersnapper
"Cooperate, and we'll kill you rather painlessly." -- Zorg
Cerberus
Hiya Tash,
Nice to see you're back.
tash...@primenet.com (Tashback) wrote:
>In article <3529fc8f...@news.rmi.net>, cerb...@medusa.com
>(Cerberus) wrote:
>
>> some feeb who doesn't know that after a
>> period, you space TWICE
>
>This inflammatory statement led to hours of rancorous debate on IRC.
>Friendships were shattered, strategic alliances were destroyed, and
>brother took up arms against brother,
Thenk yew, thenk yew. This is the sort of thing I LIVE for.
>but truth finally prevailed:
Uh oh. I just _hate_ it when that happens. I also doubt it.
> Let me
>state for the record that in electronic communication, the rule is *one
>space after a period*. Two spaces is for typewriters only.
BuhwahAHAHAHAHAHA! ! ! Oh right. The English language is saved. The
techies are gonna abolish the two-spaces rule. And I suppose the OED
will be listing "BTW," "IMHO,"and ":-)" next. Wow. The New On-line
Grammar and Style Manual. That'll be a big hit. I think you ought to
do what my family did -- have Grammar put down and get on with
probate.
It IS nice to see the ARSCC IRC boys and girls are not afraid to
tackle the tough issues, but you gotta learn to walk before you can
run. Try something easy -- like WHY, if I use quotes to set off a
phrase or word and the phrase or word is followed by punctuation that
doesn't relate to the phrase or word, the punctuation nevertheless
goes _inside_ the quotation marks. For instance, when I wrote "BTW"
above, I had to leave the comma -- which has no relation to "BTW" --
inside the quotation marks. Izzat stupid, or what? Punctuation
unrelated to the word or phrase being highlighted by quotation marks
ought to go _outside_ the quotation marks.
>Tash
There. That oughtta have 'em KILLIN' each other on IRC in no time
atall.
And just as a "BTW" for the a.r.s Sheriff and others who think that
people posting to this here newsgroup ought to talk about Scientology,
I'd just like to note that L. Ron Hubbard followed said stupid
punctuation rule in all of his writings, so if the ARSCC IRC crowd
manages to get the rule changed, the CoS will have to deviate from the
new "standard" punctuation rules in order to be true to the "tech"
Period. Every anal-compulsive, can't-seem-to-get-a-life grammarian
from here to Harvard will be DA'ing Scientologists as a bunch of
deviants, and _my_ ARSCC stats will skyrocket straight into Affluence.
Eat my dust.
And YOU thought this was off-topic. Pshaw.
Cerberus
___________
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.
Richard II, Act II, Scene 1
Mike O'Connor
In article <199804111322...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
cilly...@aol.com (CillyPuddi) wrote:
[...]
> you know I was thinking that Isaac Hayes doesn't have it too bad.
[...]
Did you know he is the "morning man" on one of the radio stations here in
NY? Plays sweet, sweet tunes on KISS. And, of course, he is the voice of
the cook on "South Park" TV, who loves to sing about sweet, sweet lovin'.
I wonder if wgert saw the most recent episode of South Park? No kidding,
It's all about fucking a pig! -Mike
Rob Clark
On 11 Apr 1998 13:18:45 EDT, Whip...@cris.com (WHIPPERSNAPPER) wrote:
>In article <tashback-100...@ip-25-062.phx.primenet.com>,
>Tashback <tash...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>In article <3529fc8f...@news.rmi.net>, cerb...@medusa.com
>>(Cerberus) wrote:
>>> some feeb who doesn't know that after a
>>> period, you space TWICE
>>This inflammatory statement led to hours of rancorous debate on IRC.
>>Friendships were shattered, strategic alliances were destroyed, and
>>brother took up arms against brother, but truth finally prevailed: Let me
>>state for the record that in electronic communication, the rule is *one
>>space after a period*. Two spaces is for typewriters only.
>>
>>Tash
>That is pure-dee unadulterated anti-Scientology propaganda.
>And now I am utterly convinced that the evil bastard who designed HTML to
>ignore double-spaces and display only one space after the period was a
>filthy a.r.shole.
>It's two spaces. I'll take that assertion to my grave and to hell with
>you all.
FILM CLIP AT ELEVEN! i agree with whippersnapper.
single-spacing after the period at the end of a sentence is a sure sign of a
demented dupe of the conspiracy to dumb down the universe. however, i am
sure that those poor deluded souls who have been brainwashed into this mistaken
and evil belief can be snapped out of their pitiful states with some
deprogramming and rhumba dancing.
you may have destroyed the ARSCC as we know it, tash. i hope you're
proud of yourself ;-)
>- Whippersnapper
>"Cooperate, and we'll kill you rather painlessly." -- Zorg
rob
Tashback
> The
> techies are gonna abolish the two-spaces rule. And I suppose the OED
> will be listing "BTW," "IMHO,"and ":-)" next. Wow. The New On-line
> Grammar and Style Manual. That'll be a big hit. I think you ought to
> do what my family did -- have Grammar put down and get on with
> probate.
No, no, no. It's not the techies who did it, and it's not a new rule. The
typesetters did it long ago, and when you're using type that automatically
typesets itself like this newfangled electronic stuff does, you're
supposed to follow the *old* typesetting convention. You know, to avoid
"rivers of white" across the page.
> It IS nice to see the ARSCC IRC boys and girls are not afraid to
> tackle the tough issues, but you gotta learn to walk before you can
> run. Try something easy -- like WHY, if I use quotes to set off a
> phrase or word and the phrase or word is followed by punctuation that
> doesn't relate to the phrase or word, the punctuation nevertheless
> goes _inside_ the quotation marks.
For the same reason you're supposed to space only once when you're not
using a monospaced typewriter font. The
commas-and-periods-inside-quotation-marks rule is a convention set up by
typesetters because it makes the page look better (it's only commas and
periods that always go inside quotation marks -- other punctuation marks
go outside or inside, depending on whether they're related to what's
inside).
In the U.K., I believe, the rule is to stick periods and commas where they
should *logically* go -- that makes more sense, but it's not how it's done
here. U.S. typesetters decided that pages look better with periods and
commas inside quotation marks, so that's the convention we follow over
here.
Same thing with spacing twice after periods. Unless you're using a
typewriterish monospaced font like Courier, the page looks better with a
single space after the period. It's an old rule, not a new one.
Tash
/\ndroid <at
Rob Clark wrote in message <352ff221...@news.mindspring.com>...
>
>FILM CLIP AT ELEVEN! i agree with whippersnapper.
>
>single-spacing after the period at the end of a sentence is a sure sign of
a
>demented dupe of the conspiracy to dumb down the universe. however, i am
>sure that those poor deluded souls who have been brainwashed into this
mistaken
>and evil belief can be snapped out of their pitiful states with some
>deprogramming and rhumba dancing.
>
>you may have destroyed the ARSCC as we know it, tash. i hope you're
>proud of yourself ;-)
Well, actually two spaces after a period (or other end of sentence) *was*
the standard. However, this standard was set in the days of fixed space font
typewriters. In the modern era, with proportional fonts, and software that
knows what to do with a period, this is no longer true. Of course, if you're
using some stone age tool (i.e. more than a year old) to read net news, then
this might be jarring.
Hopefully further advances will do something about line length, and we'll
have software that can recognize the difference between a soft end-of-line,
and a hard end-of-paragraph. (I wrote such software back in '83. It could
format text for a 22 column Vic-20, or a fancy 132 column Dec terminal. But
we didn't win the standards wars. Ah well.)
/\<.
The Twenty Warning Signs of Too Much Star Trek:
#14. Understanding Klingon (nuqDaq yuch Dapol)
Jens Tingleff
In article <352ff221...@news.mindspring.com>, xe...@mindspring.com
(Rob Clark) wrote:
> On 11 Apr 1998 13:18:45 EDT, Whip...@cris.com (WHIPPERSNAPPER) wrote:
>
> >In article <tashback-100...@ip-25-062.phx.primenet.com>,
> >Tashback <tash...@primenet.com> wrote:
[..]
> >>brother took up arms against brother, but truth finally prevailed: Let me
> >>state for the record that in electronic communication, the rule is *one
> >>space after a period*. Two spaces is for typewriters only.
> >>
> >>Tash
>
[..]
> >It's two spaces. I'll take that assertion to my grave and to hell with
> >you all.
>
> FILM CLIP AT ELEVEN! i agree with whippersnapper.
>
> single-spacing after the period at the end of a sentence is a sure sign of a
> demented dupe of the conspiracy to dumb down the universe.
[Finally a subject which has nothing to do with the subject of the
newsgroup and which can truly stir up the emotions. I just hope Rob wasn't
trolling ;-) ]
BZZZT!
Double spacing after period is, as Tash said, for typewriters. One still
sees poor deluded souls who think that popular microcomputer software can
be used for actual typesetting having to type two spaces in electronic
documents. This is simply an indiction that they do not use proper
typesetting tools.[1]
Anyway, for something as low-level as News, IRC, etc, prpper formatting
hardly matters at all ;-)
Jens
[1] Yes, I use LaTeX[2]. (I edit with Emacs, as well ;-) ) This is for
actual documents; for news I use the barely adequate standard text editor
thingie included in the newsreader and leave the visual results to the
equally horrible software at the receiving end.
[2] TeX *knows*! Any period typed in TeX includes some extra space after it
in the printed document, since this is proper typesetting. (Yes, one has to
use a special code for using periods at the end of abbreviations -
tough...)
------ No PGP signature, no authenticity. Vive La France!! ---------
http://www.imaginet.fr/~jensting/. Scientology[tm]?? Check it out at
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/mpoulter/scum.html *and*
http://www.scientology.org/. Report to alt.religion.scientology ;-)
Tashback
In article <6grumt$h...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
cj...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Scott A. McClare) wrote:
> Tashback (tash...@primenet.com) writes:
>
> > For the same reason you're supposed to space only once when you're not
> > using a monospaced typewriter font. The
> > commas-and-periods-inside-quotation-marks rule is a convention set up by
> > typesetters because it makes the page look better (it's only commas and
> > periods that always go inside quotation marks -- other punctuation marks
> > go outside or inside, depending on whether they're related to what's
> > inside).
>
> Almost. Periods and commas always go inside the quotation marks; colons
> and semicolons always go outside; question marks and exclamation marks go
> inside if they're part of the quotation, outside if they're part of the
> whole sentence, as do dashes, ellipses, and other marks.
Agreed. But I think the reason colons and semicolons always go outside is
that they would never logically go inside -- so there's no instance in
which one would place a colon or semicolon that would logically go inside
outside, as is the case (in reverse) when one places a period or comma
that would logically go outside inside.
Tash
David Gerard
On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:49:33 GMT, cerb...@medusa.com (Cerberus) wrote:
:BuhwahAHAHAHAHAHA! ! ! Oh right. The English language is saved. The
:techies are gonna abolish the two-spaces rule. And I suppose the OED
:will be listing "BTW," "IMHO,"and ":-)" next. Wow.
Laugh and laugh. I've been seeing ':-)' in print more and more often
lately, and in articles that have nothing to do with computers or the
Internet.
I'm afraid us Literary Geniuses are just going to have to work harder at
reclaiming the language for brilliance.
--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/ AGSF Unit 0|4 http://suburbia.net/~fun/
Stop JUNK EMAIL Boycott AMAZON.COM http://mickc.home.mindspring.com/index1.htm
"if you ever look at your life ... and think 'i could go on jerry springer' ...
just kill yourself. right then." - Rob Clark
Scott A. McClare
Tashback (tash...@primenet.com) writes:
> For the same reason you're supposed to space only once when you're not
> using a monospaced typewriter font. The
> commas-and-periods-inside-quotation-marks rule is a convention set up by
> typesetters because it makes the page look better (it's only commas and
> periods that always go inside quotation marks -- other punctuation marks
> go outside or inside, depending on whether they're related to what's
> inside).
Almost. Periods and commas always go inside the quotation marks; colons
and semicolons always go outside; question marks and exclamation marks go
inside if they're part of the quotation, outside if they're part of the
whole sentence, as do dashes, ellipses, and other marks.
Scott
Steve A
On 11 Apr 1998 13:18:45 EDT, Whip...@cris.com (WHIPPERSNAPPER) wrote:
> In article <tashback-100...@ip-25-062.phx.primenet.com>,
> Tashback <tash...@primenet.com> wrote:
> >In article <3529fc8f...@news.rmi.net>, cerb...@medusa.com
> >(Cerberus) wrote:
> >
> >> some feeb who doesn't know that after a
> >> period, you space TWICE
> >
> >This inflammatory statement led to hours of rancorous debate on IRC.
> >Friendships were shattered, strategic alliances were destroyed, and
> >brother took up arms against brother, but truth finally prevailed: Let me
> >state for the record that in electronic communication, the rule is *one
> >space after a period*. Two spaces is for typewriters only.
> >
> >Tash
>
> That is pure-dee unadulterated anti-Scientology propaganda.
>
> And now I am utterly convinced that the evil bastard who designed HTML to
> ignore double-spaces and display only one space after the period was a
> filthy a.r.shole.
>
> It's two spaces. I'll take that assertion to my grave and to hell with
> you all.
It *is* possible for you to go right on ahead with your assertion,
Whimp - at least this particular aspect of your "philosophy" isn't
responsible for innocent young women dying of dehydration, or suing
people who use one space into bankruptcy.
You go on right ahead, Whimp - you'll see *just* how tolerant we
critics can be :-)
Practicing medicine without a licence? You decide.
"Step Four - Cures for Illness
You will now find BTs and clusters being cures for illnesses of the body
part. Handle all such BTs and clusters by blowing them off. "Cures for
Illness" will then cease to read. [NOTS 34, Fair Use excerpt]
--
Steve A, SP4, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12
"...Your suppositions include an unwarranted accusation which
I do not consider myself called upon to address..."
- a nice line in diplomatic put-down from Swedish
A/G in response to letter of Warren McShane
Scott A. McClare
Tashback (tash...@primenet.com) writes:
>> Almost. Periods and commas always go inside the quotation marks; colons
>> and semicolons always go outside; question marks and exclamation marks go
>> inside if they're part of the quotation, outside if they're part of the
>> whole sentence, as do dashes, ellipses, and other marks.
> Agreed. But I think the reason colons and semicolons always go outside is
> that they would never logically go inside -- so there's no instance in
> which one would place a colon or semicolon that would logically go inside
> outside, as is the case (in reverse) when one places a period or comma
> that would logically go outside inside.
What about this one?
<BLOCKQUOTE>
As I look at my bookshelf, I can see books by five distinct authors: _Snow
Crash_ by Neal Stephenson, _The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind_ by Mark
Noll, _Desperation_ by Stephen King, _The Battle of Beginnings_ by Del
Ratzsch, and William Barclay's commentary on Philippians, Colossians, and
Thessalonians.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Paragraph including a citation of the above:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
Citing his literary influences, McClare writes in his autobiography that
"[a]s I look at my bookshelf, I can see books by five distinct authors":
Stephenson, Noll, King, Ratzsch, and Barclay (McClare 41).
</BLOCKQUOTE>
The colon goes outside, even though it does appear in that place in the
original. This example is one that might conceivably occur in real life,
even though this one was made up specifically to make a point. If I tried
to make the same point with a semicolon, I'd REALLY be stretching.
[Incidentally, no they're NOT "literary influences." 8-) They are books I
happen to have nearby, though.]
tall...@mail.storm.ca
>
>>In article <tashback-100...@ip-25-062.phx.primenet.com>,
>>Tashback <tash...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>>In article <3529fc8f...@news.rmi.net>, cerb...@medusa.com
>>>(Cerberus) wrote:
>
>>>> some feeb who doesn't know that after a
>>>> period, you space TWICE
>
>>>This inflammatory statement led to hours of rancorous debate on IRC.
>>>Friendships were shattered, strategic alliances were destroyed, and
>>>brother took up arms against brother, but truth finally prevailed: Let me
>>>state for the record that in electronic communication, the rule is *one
>>>space after a period*. Two spaces is for typewriters only.
>>>
>>>Tash
Tash, my darling, my charismatic cult-leading apple of perfection,
As one of those 'deluded' two-space adherents, may I inquire:
Where the hell was *I* when "truth prevailed"?
Did the anti-traditionalist Mac-boosting desk-top-publishing forces of
corruption wait until we who defended -- and defend till this day! -- the
truth, the way and the nobility of the English language had exhausted our
strength and gone to bed? Only then daring to whisper, to an incestous and
captive audience: "So it's agreed, then?"
I protest.
>>That is pure-dee unadulterated anti-Scientology propaganda.
>
>>And now I am utterly convinced that the evil bastard who designed HTML to
>>ignore double-spaces and display only one space after the period was a
>>filthy a.r.shole.
>
>>It's two spaces. I'll take that assertion to my grave and to hell with
>>you all.
>
>FILM CLIP AT ELEVEN! i agree with whippersnapper.
>
>single-spacing after the period at the end of a sentence is a sure sign of a
>demented dupe of the conspiracy to dumb down the universe. however, i am
>sure that those poor deluded souls who have been brainwashed into this mistaken
>and evil belief can be snapped out of their pitiful states with some
>deprogramming and rhumba dancing.
>
>you may have destroyed the ARSCC as we know it, tash. i hope you're
>proud of yourself ;-)
And where the hell were *you* when the self-proclaimed experts of "graphic
design" were hurling insults at those of us who dared speak up in defence of
the two-space tradition? Accused us of perpetuating - nay, instigating - a
"river of whitespace" they did.
I blame the Cult of the Mac.
K
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine
In article <6grumt$h...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, "Scott A. McClare"
<cj...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> writes
>
>Tashback (tash...@primenet.com) writes:
>
>> For the same reason you're supposed to space only once when you're not
>> using a monospaced typewriter font. The
>> commas-and-periods-inside-quotation-marks rule is a convention set up by
>> typesetters because it makes the page look better (it's only commas and
>> periods that always go inside quotation marks -- other punctuation marks
>> go outside or inside, depending on whether they're related to what's
>> inside).
>
>and semicolons always go outside; question marks and exclamation marks go
>inside if they're part of the quotation, outside if they're part of the
>whole sentence, as do dashes, ellipses, and other marks.
No, there are variations. Good English usage is that a puctuation mark
is inside the quotation marks if it is part of the material quoted, and
outside if not.
There WAS a typsetting convetion which preferred [."] to [".] in all
cases becase the [.] piece on the end of a slug of type is vulnerable
to falling or breaking off, but this no longer applies now hot metal
typesetting itself has fallen into disuse..
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
Tashback
In article <6gtb96$e...@enews1.newsguy.com>, tall...@mail.storm.ca
(tall...@storm.ca) wrote:
<snip>
> Tash, my darling, my charismatic cult-leading apple of perfection,
>
> As one of those 'deluded' two-space adherents, may I inquire:
> Where the hell was *I* when "truth prevailed"?
I made that part up.
> Did the anti-traditionalist Mac-boosting desk-top-publishing forces of
> corruption wait until we who defended -- and defend till this day! -- the
> truth, the way and the nobility of the English language had exhausted our
> strength and gone to bed? Only then daring to whisper, to an incestous and
> captive audience: "So it's agreed, then?"
No, truth on the matter never really prevailed on IRC, I admit it. I just
decided to take truth over to a.r.s.
<snip; Rob Clark wrote:>
> >single-spacing after the period at the end of a sentence is a sure sign of a
> >demented dupe of the conspiracy to dumb down the universe. however, i am
> >sure that those poor deluded souls who have been brainwashed into this
mistaken
> >and evil belief can be snapped out of their pitiful states with some
> >deprogramming and rhumba dancing.
> >
> >you may have destroyed the ARSCC as we know it, tash. i hope you're
> >proud of yourself ;-)
> And where the hell were *you* when the self-proclaimed experts of "graphic
> design" were hurling insults at those of us who dared speak up in defence of
> the two-space tradition?
I'm not an expert in graphic design, although we did have some experts
present to support our position. And I don't think I actually called the
two-spacers "deluded," unless I carelessly tossed it in as a throwaway
adjective accompanying "Luddite."
> Accused us of perpetuating - nay, instigating - a
> "river of whitespace" they did.
>
> I blame the Cult of the Mac.
Come on, Tallulah, you know in your heart of hearts that when you read
published material in hardcopy -- which is typeset just as electronic
material is typeset -- the space between the period and the initial letter
of the next sentence doesn't take up two whole letter spaces. And you know
that doesn't bother you in the least.
In your heart, you're one of us. Join us. Join us, Tallulah.
Tash
Zinj
I'm afraid that while the AP Style Manual may require 2 spaces, the ARSCC
Electronic Style Manual thinks that sending two characters(in this case
spaces) where one will do is a sin sin sin!
Zinj
In article <tashback-130...@ip-21-156.phx.primenet.com>,
tash...@primenet.com says...
Rebecca Hartong
Tashback wrote in message ...
>Come on, Tallulah, you know in your heart of hearts that when you read
>published material in hardcopy -- which is typeset just as electronic
>material is typeset -- the space between the period and the initial letter
>of the next sentence doesn't take up two whole letter spaces. And you know
>that doesn't bother you in the least.
>
>In your heart, you're one of us. Join us. Join us, Tallulah.
Don't do it, Tallulah! Return to the light!!! Return to the
Liiiigggghhhhhhttttt......!
Scott A. McClare
Dave Bird---St Hippo of Augustine (da...@xemu.demon.co.uk) writes:
> No, there are variations. Good English usage is that a puctuation mark
> is inside the quotation marks if it is part of the material quoted, and
> outside if not.
Apparently, that's a British or European convention; certainly it's not
used on this side of the Atlantic. I've sat in on more than one lecture
where a frustrated English professor went through the basics of
punctuation typography with his students (and third-year students at that).
bc
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On 14 Apr 98 07:37:08 GMT, zinj...@inreach.com (Zinj) brewed up the
following, and served it to the group:
>I'm afraid that while the AP Style Manual may require 2 spaces, the
ARSCC
>Electronic Style Manual thinks that sending two characters(in this
case
>spaces) where one will do is a sin sin sin!
>
>Zinj
Ok, I missed the conversation on IRC. (note the 2 spaces!) And I
have a question. (note--2 more spaces!) Where does this leave all
us old farts who learned to type on manual Royal 440 machines, with
2-inch keystrokes, and manual carriage returns, and double-spacing
after each period and colon? (And question mark, for that matter?)
(And single-spacing after a comma or a semicolon?) I'm a sinner.
I'm comfortable with the fact. (As a matter of fact, Lazarus Long
tells us to "Yield to temptation! It may not pass your way again!"
And "Bob" tells us to "pull the wool over our own eyes!" And
encourages confession, so that we may learn of new sins to apply in
our own lives. Hallelujah!)
I am an unrepentant and rather happy sinner. Two spaces. See? See
how nicely it reads? How it gives us a difference between the text
within a sentence, and the following sentence?
I'm too fucking old to re-learn my typing NOW, anyway! (And Pete
Townshend tells us, "I don't need to fight/To prove I'm right/I
don't need to be forgiven!")
<snip>
>>> Tash, my darling, my charismatic cult-leading apple of
perfection,
>>>
>>> As one of those 'deluded' two-space adherents, may I inquire:
>>> Where the hell was *I* when "truth prevailed"?
Thank you, Tallulah! Praise 2 spaces!
>><snip; Rob Clark wrote:>
>>
>>> >single-spacing after the period at the end of a sentence is a
sure sign of
>a
>>> >demented dupe of the conspiracy to dumb down the universe.
however, i am
>>> >sure that those poor deluded souls who have been brainwashed
into this
>>mistaken
>>> >and evil belief can be snapped out of their pitiful states with
some
>>> >deprogramming and rhumba dancing.
>>> >
>>> >you may have destroyed the ARSCC as we know it, tash. i hope
you're
>>> >proud of yourself ;-)
And thank you, Rob! Truth SHALL prevail! Of course, the apologists
for the cult of the single-space will never see the light of reason.
It's mind control. Pure and simple mind control. (Oops...now I've
done it again...does this mean I'm going to have to download all of
Windows 98 with a 300 baud modem again? Christ, it took me a week
and a half last time! And do you have ANY IDEA how hard it is to
find a working 300 baud modem these days? Sheesh...)
<snip>
>>> I blame the Cult of the Mac.
>>
>>Come on, Tallulah, you know in your heart of hearts that when you
read
>>published material in hardcopy -- which is typeset just as
electronic
>>material is typeset -- the space between the period and the
initial letter
>>of the next sentence doesn't take up two whole letter spaces. And
you know
>>that doesn't bother you in the least.
>>
>>In your heart, you're one of us. Join us. Join us, Tallulah.
>>
>>Tash
<soapbox>
Don't do it, Tallulah! The road to Hell is paved (single-spacedly)
with unbought, stuffed doggies! Tash, you should be ASHAMED of
yourself for trying to degrade a true believer in the True Way of
Two Spaces! I am deeply (and double-spacedly) shocked.
The next thing you know, they'll be telling us to not double-space
between paragraphs! Then they'll try to get us to not snip posts in
Usenet when replying! And THEN don't you just know that they'll try
to outlaw spell-checkers! (And when spell-checkers are outlawed,
only owtlauz wil hav spel-chekkerz!)
It's...it's...it's godless Communism abroad, and secular humanism at
home! They're trying to destroy the purity of our precious bodily
fluids! We can't let this happen, here on ars, the last bastion of
purity and goodness on Usenet!
</soapbox>
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----------
"Humanity has the stars in its future, and that future is too important to be
lost under the burden of juvenile folly and ignorant superstition."
--Isaac Asimov
the above e-mail address remains fictional.
the real one is bc9424@spamTHIS!.concentric.net (if you remove spamTHIS!.)
*SP2(:)*
...bc...
Conner
On 13 Apr 1998 22:21:01 -0700, in message
<tashback-130...@ip-21-156.phx.primenet.com>,
tash...@primenet.com (Tashback) wrote:
>
>Come on, Tallulah, you know in your heart of hearts that when you read
>published material in hardcopy -- which is typeset just as electronic
>material is typeset -- the space between the period and the initial letter
>of the next sentence doesn't take up two whole letter spaces. And you know
>that doesn't bother you in the least.
the stingiest of swiss psychiatrist bankers is force behind the
deludian one-spacer nazis. one-spacing looks generally looks
horrible and unnatural, and does not encourage a full stop
at the end of a sentence, which guidance us good germans
always look for. i will never give in to the one-spacers. they
are evil and wrong. long live the two-space after a period
at the end of a sentence!
-- see...@ix.netcom.com (Conner)
Note: the header address is wrong!
Friends of Dennis Erlich Club (www.netcom.com/~seekon/friends.html)
LsaDerrick
I am the associate editor of a glossy national mag with over 80,000
circulation, as well as a writer for a newspaper with a circulation of over
100,000. While in standard writing (as on here, letters to my friends, etc) I
use two spaces between the period at the end of a sentence and the capital
letter at the beginning of the next, at the urging of our highly experienced
and very emphatic proofreaders and copy editors, all writers (myself included)
are now putting SINGLE SPACES between the end of one sentence and the beginning
of the next. This is at both publications. While I don't care for the way it
looks, that's the way it's done. At least in Los Angeles.
As for periods and commas -- inside quotation marks ALWAYS.
Rob Clark
oh. los angeles. you should have said that in the beginning.
that explains it ;-)
>As for periods and commas -- inside quotation marks ALWAYS.
rob
Realpch
LsaDerrick posts re the one space two space controversy:
"While in standard writing (as on here, letters to my friends, etc) I
use two spaces between the period at the end of a sentence and the capital
letter at the beginning of the next, at the urging of our highly experienced
and very emphatic proofreaders and copy editors, all writers (myself included)
are now putting SINGLE SPACES between the end of one sentence and the beginning
of the next. This is at both publications. While I don't care for the way it
looks, that's the way it's done. At least in Los Angeles."
well folks, that's not only the way they do it in los angeles, that's the way
printers have been doing it all over for hundreds of years! if there's anything
else you all would like to know about graphics and type, i'd be glad to
enlighten you! just send me your mastercard or visa number, and i'll get back
to you with the real goods.
Podkayne1
Two spaces in monospaced type. This includes usenet. Anyone reading usenet
with a proportional font is a heretic. Anyone reading it with a newsreader
that supports HTML and sends it by default - the programmers should be strung
up by their toes and forced to write classic Fortran in a proportional font.
(Fortran was column-sensitive, disgustingly so)
One in proportional - this does actually go back to the pre-computer days.
And those who don't put blank lines between paragraphs, or don't even *use*
paragraphs on Usenet - let them be anathema.
© Anti-Cult ®
On 15 Apr 1998 05:34:59 GMT.
podk...@aol.com (Podkayne1).
From: AOL http://www.aol.com.
Wrote on the subject: Re: two spaces after a period! die heretics!:
Clue me in please. What have this spacing issue in common with the
subject of this NG, apart from the space part?
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Somebody some day will say 'this is illegal'. By then be sure
the orgs say what is legal or not."
-- L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 4 January 1966
------------------------------------------------------------------
***** Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! ******
********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm **********
*** Public PGP key: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/pgp.htm ***
****** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) *******
------------------------------------------------------------------
Victimized by the Co$. "Deadfiled" in at least one Org. Seen too
much, heard to much, lived too much. Security Coded hard disks
too much. Have been reading NOTS too much. Having chronic
pneumonia. As Arnold said: I'll be back......
------------------------------------------------------------------
gerry armstrong
On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:34:05 GMT, see...@cyberpromo.com (Conner)
wrote:
Let's not forget the third space invaders? Much has been written
here about the fourth. And there's the continual threat of the
fifth space invaders showing up with that syntactical tyrannt Xenu's
avenging progeny. After that it's only a matter of time before the
sixth spacers. But here we are eating and drinking and marrying
and debating the passe and long gone seconds and the ones who
preceded even them. Wake up ARS!
Podkayne1
>Clue me in please. What have this spacing issue in common with the
>subject of this NG, apart from the space part?
If we have to have a flame war, let it be a silly one
Tashback
In article <199804150534...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
podk...@aol.com (Podkayne1) wrote:
> Two spaces in monospaced type. This includes usenet.
Darn if you aren't right. Actually, I find two-spacers a bit easier to
read on usenet.
Can't we all just get along? Can we say two spaces for monospaced type and
one space for real-world type? (Except that I can't bring myself to use
two spaces, even here, but I acknowledge that it's the correct form for
this medium.)
> One in proportional - this does actually go back to the pre-computer days.
>
> And those who don't put blank lines between paragraphs, or don't even *use*
> paragraphs on Usenet - let them be anathema.
Yeah! *They* are the enemy! One-spacers and Two-spacers unite against the
unreadable slobs who don't space twice between paragraphs!
Tash
Michael Reuss
>zinj...@inreach.com (Zinj) wrote:
>I'm afraid that while the AP Style Manual may require 2 spaces, the ARSCC
>Electronic Style Manual thinks that sending two characters(in this case
>spaces) where one will do is a sin sin sin!
^^^^^^^^
Zinj, you're gonna burn in hell for these 8 gratuitous characters.
;-)
--
Michael Reuss (remove nospam from address to reply by e-mail)
Honorary Kid