An apology concerning Clearwater
Bob Minton
Hash: SHA1
I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
guys.
Sincerely,
Bob Minton
P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
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Jeff Jacobsen
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>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights.
Apology accepted here. It's very hard to not strike back - that's
why we have wars and criminal courts and stuff. It's much harder to
take abuse, as Gandhi taught
(http://www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/gandhi.htm). Anyone can strick
back, but in the case of dealing with Scientology for sure, it's
better to take the abuse and let the other side show their true
colors.
mad_b...@my-deja.com
b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
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> I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
> While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
Were you alone or in the company of other picketers? I see no mention of
other picketers here. The cult is getting more bold and brazen in its
attempt to keep the Lisa McPherson Trust out of Clearwater. It would be
my unqualified opinion to stay in close physical proximity to other
critics (or even bodyguards) while in the Clearwater area. That would go
not just for yourself, but for ANY picketer during the Dec. picket.
The cult is desperate. The more eyes that are watching them, the less
they can get away with.
<snip>
Mad_Cow (see you in Clearwater)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chris Leithiser
Bob Minton wrote:
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> I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
> While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
> I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
> person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
> organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
> and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
> However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
> guys.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob Minton
>
> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
> doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
As it was no doubt intended to do. Unless it goes against your lawyer's
advice, I would recommend documenting the harassment to whatever judge
you face. Not necessarily in mitigation, but to get it on the record,
indelibly.
gerry armstrong
No, it can for purposes of mitigation, or extenuation. But for any
reason, yes, get an attorney to make a powerful record.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
gerry armstrong
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>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
Well, good timing anyway.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video).
Well, we pray that the $cientologist is okay.
Ok, Bob, I'm convinced. You're *not* an O$A agent.
>That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
Fight any restraining order sought.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights.
We'll get over our grief, but probably won't get over our friendship.
> I am not the first
>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>guys.
Me too.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Bob Minton
>
>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
Battery is almost never justified ($cientologist Dan assaulted me on
the October 16 Toronto picket) however the $cientology campaign
against you and their record of physical attacks will certainly
extenuate the alleged offense.
Don't easily plead. Give this charge some time to do some good work.
IANAL, as you know.
Enjoy the weather wherever you are.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
Realpch
>
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> I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
sort of situation? I think that if I were in your shoes and had the
spare change, that's what I'd do.
Peach
Arnie Lerma <www.lermanet.com>
>
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>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>guys.
>
>
>Bob Minton
>
>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
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But that of course was the intent of the scientology harrassment
They have been wondering for years why it hasn't worked already
Hang in there, its just a bump in the road bob.
Arnie Lerma
Secrets are the mortar binding
bricks as lies together into prisons for the mind.
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's http://www.lermanet.com
Arnie Lerma <www.lermanet.com>
oh yeah, rule #1
Turn everything they do to your advantage.
They are underindictment for "Simulation of a Felony" in spain.
From what Ive heard this sounds like the 2nd "simulation of a battery"
Keith Henson
snip
> While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
Been there myself--twice. I was reviewing my arrest at the Shrine and two
weeks later at FOLA last night in connection with the latest Shrine picket
before I heard of this. I was arrested (the second time) partly on the
basis of assault for having bitten Edwin Richardson--who had stuck his arm
in my mouth from behind me trying to get a choke hold. I was encumbered
at the time with a picket sign and a large video camera.
It is the price we pay for putting our bodies on the line to control this
deadly parasite on our democratic civilization.
snip
> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
> doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
It may get a lot worse before it gets better. On the other hand, an
awful lot of scientologists who have been in contact with us don't seem to
be in scientology any more.
Keith Henson
Keith Henson
snip
> Bob, have you ever considered hiring some kind of bodyguard for this
> sort of situation? I think that if I were in your shoes and had the
> spare change, that's what I'd do.
Peach, even if the cost is not a factor, getting one is enough of a
problem to cut way into the number of pickets you can do. Keith.
Suzie
>From: Keith Henson hkhe...@netcom19.netcom.com
>Date: Mon, 01 November 1999 02:30 PM EST
>Message-id: <7vkppg$no0$2...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net>
I don't understand this?? The people who I have known that have had the need
for a bodyguard, the bodyguard simply goes everywhere they do, like a "shadow".
If the person needs privacy (example for a dinner date, etc), the bodyguard
simply steps back a few feet and watches to make sure everything is OK. I
don't see how this would inhibit participation in a picket (I just had a semi
humorous mental picture of some bald guy, built like "Ahnold" S, with shades
on, packing a pistol, holding a "www.xenu.net" sign.)
Back to my original question...I'm probably too new to figure it out, but how
would having a bodyguard preclude someone attending pickets?
Suzie
"I never have to lie to any man because I don't fear anyone. The only time you
lie is when you are afraid." - JJG
roxthefox
>
>There are lots of volunteer organizations that offer training in how
>to deal with the pressure of provocative behavior (taunting,
>name-calling, even physical assault) without responding in kind and
>getting yourself thrown in the pokey. It might be of great use to
>you to seek out an organization that marshals volunteers for, say,
>abortion clinic escort services, and see if you can go through their
>program.
This is good advice. It would be well worth the time to follow up on
this IMHO. I took one of these classes and it was very helpful to me.
Another thing that helped me a lot was Karate. I learned a great deal
of control. That combined with the knowledge that I could really harm
another person, something I never want to do, is a great deterrent to
physical responses.
>
>Maybe Jeff Jacobson has some ideas.
>
>>
>>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>
>I will include myself in that latter group, and say that your
>apology is accepted. I'm more concerned about you and your welfare
>than I am that this incident will have any umbrella effect on the
>critical movement as a whole (although I'm sure there are plans
>being made right now to use this as a weapon against others).
Me too.
>
>Pay attention to what you need to do for yourself, Bob. Get some
>education and training in how to deal with such confrontations without
>allowing yourself to be _used_ this way.
Be sooooo careful.
>
>Most of all, you need to keep your hands to yourself. This is a
>visualization model I'd use if I were in your position: these people
>who surround me are infected with a deadly disease called "hate." It's
>contagious, and is passed through physical contact. If I touch them,
>I'll die. (Metaphorically: a moral death, as it were.)
Interesting concept. I once told a person, "I'd slap your face, but
I'm afraid I'd catch something". Think of it that way.
>
>--Barbara
>DO NOT REPLY TO ABOVE ADDRESS ;USE tw...@scn.org
>
>
>
>>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>>violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
>>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>>guys.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>Bob Minton
>>
>>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
>>
Anonymous
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights.
How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
I'll guess you'll need to spend some money buying off more people on
ars to have them defend your violence and criminal actions.
Anonymous
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
That's the problem Minton. You apparently have no responsibility for
your actions. Things just happened over which you act like you had no
control and no for which you had responsibility. The police considered your
actions "inappropriate", but you obviously don't. Unbelievable.
How about the police considered your actions "criminal" and you were
rightly arrested. Isn't that more the truth?
Chris Leithiser
> Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>
> >I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> >anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> >association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> >harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> >violation of people's civil and human rights.
>
> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
Sure. He'll model it on the apology that Ofman gave him for assaulting
Bob last year.
> I'll guess you'll need to spend some money buying off more people on
> ars to have them defend your violence and criminal actions.
When is your cult going to apologize for killing Lisa McPherson,
stealing her money, and having the crassness to appropriate her name?
Patrick L. Humphrey
>Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>>violation of people's civil and human rights.
>How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
Why? The person Bob allegedly hurt was acting on orders from YOUR pack of
rabid thugs. There might be a question as to whether such a person really
deserves an apology, though I'll defer to Bob's judgement on this one, since
he was obviously a party to the incident and I wasn't.
>I'll guess you'll need to spend some money buying off more people on
>ars to have them defend your violence and criminal actions.
Bob didn't pay me a cent to post this response to your usual impotent
dead-agenting, little clam. Postulate _that_.
--PLH, Xenu really loves you, AnonoCoward -- the rest of us think you're an
asshole
Rebecca Hartong
Grady Ward <gr...@gradyward.com> wrote in message
news:ucUdOO13cgPAcd...@4ax.com...
> In fact the people promoting "Gandhi" are doing a disservice
> because it makes ordinary people think they have to be of
> overwhelming purity to be effectively part of the battle.
Bullshit. Anyone who's read anything about Gandhi knows that he was *not* of
overwhelming purity. The power of "Gandhi-tech" is that it is *precisely*
about ordinary people--with all their faults--still striving to behave in a
manner that doesn't bring dishonor to their cause.
Rebecca Hartong
Bob Minton <b...@minton.org> wrote in message
news:381da3e...@news.newsguy.com...
> I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> violation of people's civil and human rights
Apology accepted. But, jeez-- be careful! I fear there may be a restraining
order in your future. Barbara (Ceon Ramon) has some good advice-- maybe you
should look for some training on how to keep these people from riling you.
David Cecere, ED of the Lisa McPherson Trust
Hash: SHA1
Greetings all,
This missive to ARS is my first official posting as the Executive
Director of the Lisa McPherson Trust. I want to go on record as
accepting Bob's apology as his friend and as his colleague.
I abhor violence and as ED of the Lisa McPherson Trust I will never
advocate violence towards anyone for any reason. To any and all who
would berate Bob for his actions I want to remind you that his is up
against an organization that specializes in emotional manipulation,
lying to its membership and the public, and the foment of hatred
towards all critics of the cult.
Bob's altercation with Flag staffers was unfortunate but it should
server as a reminder to anyone who protests the crimes and abuses of
the scientology cult: they're playing to win the war they have
invented.
David Cecere
P.S. I have signed this message with my new PGP key for David Daniel
Cecere which is available from http://pgp.mit.edu/.
On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:05:02 GMT, in article
<381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>, b...@minton.org wrote thusly...
>
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>Hash: SHA1
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>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>guys.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Bob Minton
>
>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
>
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***************** Meet me in Clearwater, December 5, 1999 *****************
Doubts of all things earthly, and intuitions of some things heavenly; this
combination makes neither believer nor infidel, but makes a man who regards
them both with equal eye.--Herman Melville
http://www.offlines.org/my_essay.html
Sumo
Anonymous wrote:
>
> Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>
> >I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> >anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> >association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> >harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> >violation of people's civil and human rights.
>
> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
Hurt? I thought that Scientologists could heal themselves.
Sumo
Mike O'Connor
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Gun Bunny, what is your public PGP key? It's pretty silly to PGP sign a
message when you keep your public key secret.
--
Mike O'Connor - mi...@leptonicsystems.com
<http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>
Anonymous
it does not take a stupid person to do something stupid. Reacting
the way the mafia (ooops i mean Scientology) dearly wanted him to
was "stupid."
b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
T. Devon Sharkey
give you some recommendations..
Beverly Rice
> You need to get yourself out of this situation.
I agree that being a prime target for a bunch of people trained
in bull-baiting and emotional manipulations is a very bad spot
to be in, but by removing himself from the fight, will only be
the outcome that was desired by the pan-determinism of the Co$'s
leadership to begin with.
I believe that he needs to have someone that is capable of being
calm and serene with him when he is going to be in the thick of
Co$ territory like he was this time, as we all need a calming
influence with us in times of stress, expecially when in the
thick of pan-determined, experienced game players.
> With your
> explosive temper you are only going to destroy your life
> by really hurting someone.
I do not find Bob to be "explosive" (nice little button word).
I would say others put in the same pressure cooker as he has
been would have lashed out sooner and harder than Bob, but he
also isn't totally calm either, the Co$ knows this, and uses
it very well to their benefit :-(
> You can blame Scientology and
> Scientologist all you want, but your past actions with a
> shotgun were a warning sign back then.
No more so than the illegal actions, and the physical assaults
by Co$ members on Bob.
However, the Co$ with their PR machine and resources easily make
the issue Bob, rather than the ~teflon~ Co$. But this has been
the issue not just with Bob, but with others who have taken on
a vocal presence with the Co$.
However, Bob should take this knowledge, and turn it in to
wisdom, and not have allowed himself to be put in the spot of
being the prime beef on the spit that he was.
Bob, you need to really, truly, completely stop and realize just
how much the Co$ wants your head on a pike.
You are NOT free to walk the streets. EXPECIALLY NOT FREE IN
CLEARWATER!!
Bob, no offense, you know that I love you . . . but ~WHAT~ were
you thinking?
In the heart of Hubbardville, you are NOT walking the streets of
the US, you are in a place that regards not wog law, but Hubbards
law.
Please, don't do that again!!!!!!!!!
> I suggest you get
> a new cause that will help people and get you out of this
> mess.
Keith, two things; first being that exposing the lies, and the
deceptions of the Co$, and making a safe place is a good cause,
and second, Bob also helps out others that have nothing to do
with the Co$.
> There are many good causes out there that could use
> a person of your calibar.
Thank you for validating Bob, coming from you, saying something
nice about Bob surprises me.
> With this action I don't think anyone would be interested
> renting you a building for the Lisa Foundation in Clearwater.
But yet, people are willing to rent and sell to an organzation
that kills and abuses it's own members in large numbers. Geez,
go figure!!
Strange world . . . but we ~are~ talking about Clearwater, aka.
Hubbardville.
> You have shown that you will use force upon those you say
> you want to save.
Unlike the Co$, Bob doesn't kill his own.
But I will ack your point that Bob needs to temper down, as an
individual he is held accountable for his every action, while the
Co$, due to being granted religious status by the IRS, is
accountable for nothing.
> No one wants to have that going on at
> their place of business.
Unless they are the Co$, then it is business as ususal.
Beverly
Beverly Rice
> Greetings all,
David, I tried to reply to you via mail, but it is bouncing.
Your Mom has my number (Hi Rox!! <g>).
Use it.
Beverly
Rebecca Hartong
>
> >
> >Bullshit. Anyone who's read anything about Gandhi knows that he was *not*
of
> >overwhelming purity. The power of "Gandhi-tech" is that it is *precisely*
> >about ordinary people--with all their faults--still striving to behave in
a
> >manner that doesn't bring dishonor to their cause.
>
> cause?
What does your non sequitur reply here have to do with whether "Gandhi-tech"
sets impossibly high standards for people?
M. C. DiPietra
----------
In article <7vkqql$2a...@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Rebecca Hartong"
<Praet...@mgfairfax.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Bob Minton <b...@minton.org> wrote in message
>news:381da3e...@news.newsguy.com...
>> I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>> anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>> association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>> harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>> violation of people's civil and human rights
>
>Apology accepted. But, jeez-- be careful! I fear there may be a
>restraining
>order in your future. Barbara (Ceon Ramon) has some good advice-- maybe
>you
>should look for some training on how to keep these people from riling
>you.
>
>
Bob,
Before picketing at Cape Canaveral [regarding the issue of
launching Trident II
missles] way back in '87, the Florida Coalition for Peace and
Justice held a class
about civil disobedience. We were taught to expect taunting and
how to react. It
helped that there was a group of us, but I've applied what I
learned there as an
individual many times in life to help me hold my celto-latin
temper...scns are
trained at button-pushing; it might help to get some
counter-training.
---
M.C.DiPietra <mdip...@earthlink.net>, SP4
"Hell, if you understood everything I say,
you'd be me!" -Miles Davis
iva...@medieval.net
gunbu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:05:02 GMT, Bob Minton
> <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > That response landed me
> >in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> >the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Bob,
> You need to get yourself out of this situation. With your
> explosive temper you are only going to destroy your life
> by really hurting someone. You can blame Scientology and
> Scientologist all you want, but your past actions with a
> shotgun were a warning sign back then. I suggest you get
> a new cause that will help people and get you out of this
> mess. There are many good causes out there that could use
> a person of your calibar.
> With this action I don't think anyone would be interested
> renting you a building for the Lisa Foundation in Clearwater.
> You have shown that you will use force upon those you say
> you want to save. No one wants to have that going on at
> their place of business.
>
> GB
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i
>
> iQA/AwUBOB3+fS4Z/ewm3l15EQIMlACfc6O0wF3VG6QHbgFmuqMTZQcCq3YAoNRa
> l/sgzladcpnOnWOY8kWgMER/
> =fFhQ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --
> The critics of Scientology are dangerous:
> >From: www.xe...@cti.ca (The COder/DECoder)
> >Message-ID: <37beb68d....@news.remarq.com>
> >Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
>
> >I've read enough. I truly hope things are as bad for the cult in
> >Toronto as they say... I'm against racism and violence, but I am
> >making an eception here!
a
wrote:
>On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:03:49 -0800, Grady Ward <gr...@gradyward.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>>>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>>>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>>>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>>
>>
>>The scientologists are experts in hurting and manipulating
>>people. Getting the better of you even if for a moment is a
>>testament to how much they need to be exposed.
>>
>>Bob, you weren't perfect before and you aren't perfect now.
>>Being perfect is not a criterion for fighting evil.
>>
>>In fact the people promoting "Gandhi" are doing a disservice
>>because it makes ordinary people think they have to be of
>>overwhelming purity to be effectively part of the battle.
>
>Huh??? Gandhi Tech has nothing to do with purity, it has to do with
>nonviolence. It's natural and easy to strike out at someone who is
>harassing you, or maybe even physically intimidating you. It's much
>harder to simply absorb the abuse, but that's what Gandhi Tech is
It is still harder to push a pea with your nose, but that does not
mean that it is wise in the face of violence.
>about; absorbing the abuse.
I think this is wrong. To an adversary without a conscience it
merely emboldens them.
> If we as protesters act no better than the people we are
>protesting, then what is our point?
So fighting back is makes one no better than the people we are
protesting?
> I'm probably the biggest promoter of Gandhi Tech here, so let me
>say that I don't connect Gandhi Tech with anything but how we should
>act when we protest Scientology. I myself don't believe all that
>Gandhi taught, but I do embrace his theories of nonviolence and try to
I think his theories of nonviolence are wrong except in narrowly
defined circumstances. Mostly I believe in "tit for tat" which has
some analysis in game theory for stopping aggression the soonest
and giving the greatest gain for the greatest number of people.
>ensure that picketers follow these ideas. It's not easy to follow,
>but the results are great. And in fact I'd say that if you think you
>can't control your temper, don't picket.
I think controlling one's temper has very little to do with Gandhi.
marcab_4
Bob Minton wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
<snip>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob Minton
>
> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
> doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>
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well Bob, things happen
is just another case of bait and switch?
or trick or treat?
but you keep going on fight, this is a sign for a good Karma....
You are in the right path...
and btw go to Radio shark and buy a new fuses just in case....
Best Regards
Marcab_4
gerry armstrong
<hkhe...@netcom19.netcom.com> wrote:
>Bob Minton <b...@minton.org> wrote:
>
>snip
>
>> While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>> inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>Been there myself--twice. I was reviewing my arrest at the Shrine and two
>weeks later at FOLA last night in connection with the latest Shrine picket
>before I heard of this. I was arrested (the second time) partly on the
>basis of assault for having bitten Edwin Richardson--who had stuck his arm
>in my mouth from behind me trying to get a choke hold. I was encumbered
>at the time with a picket sign and a large video camera.
>
>It is the price we pay for putting our bodies on the line to control this
>deadly parasite on our democratic civilization.
>
>snip
>
>> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>> doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
>
>It may get a lot worse before it gets better.
As long as the Miscavige regime can get other people to do their dirty
work it will only get so bad, because pretty well all the people doing
the regime's dirty work are basically good. Except for the lawyers
and PIs naturally because they are part of the regime.
When there are no more basically good people to do Miscavige and his
cronies' dirty work, there will be a shift, because Miscavige and his
cronies are not basically good. This could happen any time, so folks,
let's be extra special careful out there.
> On the other hand, an
>awful lot of scientologists who have been in contact with us don't seem to
>be in scientology any more.
Getting down to the not so basically good.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
>Keith Henson
>
gerry armstrong
wrote:
>Mister Minton certainly does not seem like a "stupid" person, but
>it does not take a stupid person to do something stupid. Reacting
>the way the mafia (ooops i mean Scientology) dearly wanted him to
>was "stupid."
Acknowledging a stupidity, on the other hand, is fairly wise.
$cientology is too stupid to acknowledge its manifold stupidities.
(c) Gerry Armstrong
>
>b...@minton.org (Bob Minton) wrote:
>
>>I made yet another mistake last night
<snip>
>>I would like to apologize
<snip>
Jeff Jacobsen
>
>>
>>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>
>
>The scientologists are experts in hurting and manipulating
>people. Getting the better of you even if for a moment is a
>testament to how much they need to be exposed.
>
>Bob, you weren't perfect before and you aren't perfect now.
>Being perfect is not a criterion for fighting evil.
>
>In fact the people promoting "Gandhi" are doing a disservice
>because it makes ordinary people think they have to be of
>overwhelming purity to be effectively part of the battle.
Huh??? Gandhi Tech has nothing to do with purity, it has to do with
nonviolence. It's natural and easy to strike out at someone who is
harassing you, or maybe even physically intimidating you. It's much
harder to simply absorb the abuse, but that's what Gandhi Tech is
about; absorbing the abuse.
If we as protesters act no better than the people we are
protesting, then what is our point?
I'm probably the biggest promoter of Gandhi Tech here, so let me
say that I don't connect Gandhi Tech with anything but how we should
act when we protest Scientology. I myself don't believe all that
Gandhi taught, but I do embrace his theories of nonviolence and try to
ensure that picketers follow these ideas. It's not easy to follow,
but the results are great. And in fact I'd say that if you think you
can't control your temper, don't picket.
If you want to read more of my thoughts on that;
www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/gandhi.htm and nonviol.htm
William Barwell
In article <1999110119...@sofuku.monster.org>,
>>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>
>How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
How about an apology from Scientology to all the people it has hurt,
and to all the families of people who went PTSIII in Scientology and
committed suicide? How about all teh people attacked and harrassed, such
as Paulette Cooper?
Let Scientology apologize first.
And stop doing this sort of thing.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope of Houston
Slack!
Suzie
>Date: Mon, 01 November 1999 05:01 PM EST
>Message-id: <991101220...@MIT.MIT.EDU>
>. Reacting the way the mafia (ooops i mean Scientology)
Pretty soon I will have finished my list of "? (# to be determined) reasons
why the "church" is more nefarious than the alleged mafia". Until then, I'll
repeat my mantra: Any comparisons made between the alleged mafia and the
"church" are an insult...
to the mafia!
Michael Reuss
>> cul...@primenet.com (Jeff Jacobsen) wrote:
>>> Grady Ward <gr...@gradyward.com> wrote:
>>>> Bob Minton wrote:
>>>>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>>>>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>>>>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>>>>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
Bob, I'm very disappointed in you. You know they are going to do this.
It's up to you to mentally prepare yourself.
>>>The scientologists are experts in hurting and manipulating
>>>people. Getting the better of you even if for a moment is a
>>>testament to how much they need to be exposed.
Agreed. But as a high profile critic, you need to be in control of
your emotions, and not respond to their bull-baiting.
>>>Bob, you weren't perfect before and you aren't perfect now.
>>>Being perfect is not a criterion for fighting evil.
No, of course not. But in a battle for public opinion, the "snapshot"
images are important, too, and Bob has consistently given the cult
(and his other critics) lot's of material with which to discredit him.
>>>In fact the people promoting "Gandhi" are doing a disservice
>>>because it makes ordinary people think they have to be of
>>>overwhelming purity to be effectively part of the battle.
Horseshit, Grady. Gandhi wasn't perfect, and nobody is expecting
picketing "perfection" from anyone (as if we would know what
perfection looked like, in any case). We just want non-violence.
>>Huh??? Gandhi Tech has nothing to do with purity, it has to do with
>>nonviolence. It's natural and easy to strike out at someone who is
>>harassing you, or maybe even physically intimidating you. It's much
>>harder to simply absorb the abuse, but that's what Gandhi Tech is
Exactly.
> It is still harder to push a pea with your nose, but that does not
> mean that it is wise in the face of violence.
Do we know there was violence against Bob first? It didn't sound that
way to me...
>>about; absorbing the abuse.
We do not picket to "get even." We picket to inform and persuade.
> I think this is wrong. To an adversary without a conscience it
> merely emboldens them.
You don't seem to understand what has hurt the cult over the past few
years. It is not that people have lashed out at the cult, but rather
it has been getting the cult to just be it's true self in a public
forum. An emboldened, arrogant cult is exactly what a good picket
should seek to achieve (and hopefully someone will get it on camera).
>> If we as protesters act no better than the people we are
>>protesting, then what is our point?
In general, I agree with your point, Jeff. But I'm not willing to
concede that Bob's lashing out in anger against a person who had been
harassing him for hours would make Bob "just as bad as the cult."
> So fighting back is makes one no better than the people we are
> protesting?
>> I'm probably the biggest promoter of Gandhi Tech here, so let me
>>say that I don't connect Gandhi Tech with anything but how we should
>>act when we protest Scientology. I myself don't believe all that
>>Gandhi taught, but I do embrace his theories of nonviolence and try to
> I think his theories of nonviolence are wrong except in narrowly
> defined circumstances. Mostly I believe in "tit for tat" which has
> some analysis in game theory for stopping aggression the soonest
> and giving the greatest gain for the greatest number of people.
The fastest way to help the largest number of people, is to have the
cult exposed as hurtful totalitarian bullies. It's harder to get that
message out if they can claim (even if falsely) that violence and
bigotry are motivating the critics.
>> And in fact I'd say that if you think you can't control your
>> temper, don't picket.
I agree.
> I think controlling one's temper has very little to do with Gandhi.
I don't know what history you've studied, 'a.'
Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid
Michael Reuss
>> Anonymous <nob...@replay.com> wrote:
>>> Bob Minton wrote in message <381da3e...@news.newsguy.com>...
>>>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>>>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>>>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>>>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>>>violation of people's civil and human rights.
>> How about an apology to the person you hurt Minton?
Do we know that someone got hurt? That is not clear from Bob's initial
description.
But if Bob did hurt someone, I would agree that an apology would be in
order.
> How about an apology from Scientology to all the people it has hurt,
> and to all the families of people who went PTSIII in Scientology and
> committed suicide? How about all teh people attacked and harrassed, such
> as Paulette Cooper?
An apology for all these things has long been in order, of course.
And it has not been forthcoming.
> Let Scientology apologize first.
Why? I disagree with this.
Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid
Ted Mayett
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
Oh boy, the cult will turn this into the FBI's 10 most wanted :-)
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here
Grief? no, guilt by association is all. And from the sounds of it a
very mild guilt. Perhaps Mark Bunker will make an video file?
Roger Gonnet
Bob Minton <b...@minton.org> a écrit dans le message :
381da3e...@news.newsguy.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
> moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
> response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
> the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
> no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
> in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
> the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
Could we know what you said? I imagine it was somewhat the truth, uttered
with ugly words!
>
> I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
> anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
> association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
> harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
> violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
> person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
> organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
> and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
> However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
> guys.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob Minton
>
> P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
> the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
> Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
> doubt shortened my fuse.
>
Roger Gonnet
a <a@a.a> a écrit dans le message : RmYeOL=JOgBVuQeYw...@4ax.com...
> >say that I don't connect Gandhi Tech with anything but how we should
> >act when we protest Scientology. I myself don't believe all that
> >Gandhi taught, but I do embrace his theories of nonviolence and try to
>
> I think his theories of nonviolence are wrong except in narrowly
> defined circumstances. Mostly I believe in "tit for tat" which has
> some analysis in game theory for stopping aggression the soonest
> and giving the greatest gain for the greatest number of people.
Methinks that a guy so able to love his people and even his enemies can't be
wrong.
Non violence is'nt a "tech". The mere use of such a word to define Gandhi's
extraordinary task is an insult; love is no tech at all, it's life.
>
>
> >ensure that picketers follow these ideas. It's not easy to follow,
> >but the results are great. And in fact I'd say that if you think you
> >can't control your temper, don't picket.
Why not: anybody has a right to lose temper. As long as one does'nt add
physical violence...
Roger
roxthefox
Bob,
In the future, when you travel around the heart of Flag Org country,
take a body guard along and maybe two. Don't go there alone. You are
not safe there.
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>I made yet another mistake last night and allowed a group of
>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>While attempting to call the police and in the process of crossing
>the street to do so in private a certain scieno decided I was to have
>no privacy and I responded in a way that the police considered
>inappropriate on the video replay (my video). That response landed me
>in the Pinellas County Jail for a couple of hours in the wee hours of
>the morning on a misdemeanor battery charge.
>
>I would like to apologize for any untowards grief that may befall
>anyone here as a result of their friendship towards me or implicit
>association with me by virtue of being opposed to scientology's
>harassive and abusive tactics as well as their utter hypocrisy and
>violation of people's civil and human rights. I am not the first
>person to go to jail by being willing to stand up to a bigoted
>organization who stomps on the civil and human rights of its members
>and the public at large. I am also not the stupidest to do that.
>However, once again, I regret having let down the side of the good
>guys.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Bob Minton
>
>P.S. For what its worth, the letter campaign in the last 10 days by
>the anon cowards of scientology, the visit to my house in New
>Hampshire by scientologists Saturday night and yesterday's events no
>doubt shortened my fuse. :-(
Ron Newman
<mdip...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Before picketing at Cape Canaveral [regarding the issue of
> launching Trident II missles] way back in '87, the Florida Coalition
> for Peace and Justice held a class about civil disobedience.
> We were taught to expect taunting and how to react.
I went through similar mandatory "nonviolence training" sessions
before participating in large civil disobedience protests against
the Seabrook, New Hampshire nuclear power plant (in 1977) and
against US military involvement in Central America (in the mid-1980s).
Part of that "training" involved role-playing, where each person
alternately takes the role of a protester, a police officer, or
a hostile bystander. If you can find people who have been through
this training, I recommend talking to them before attending another
Clearwater picket.
--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/
Ron Newman
<sect...@worldnet.fr> wrote:
> Non violence is'nt a "tech". The mere use of such a word to define Gandhi's
> extraordinary task is an insult; love is no tech at all, it's life.
"Tech" is short for "technique", and non-violent protest is definitely
a technique, one that can be learned and improved on. You don't need to
have a religious belief in non-violence, as the Quakers do, to recognize
its usefulness in a political protest movement.
Peter B. Perlsø
> I suggest you get
> a new cause that will help people and get you out of this
> mess. There are many good causes out there that could use
> a person of your calibar.
An OSA Xmas wish, anyone?
Fight on, Bob! :)
--
Best Regards, Peter B. Perlsų - http://www.titancity.com
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM - all the reasons you need to get a Mac...
If you wish to mail me, use this address:
p b p (at) a d r (dot) d k
ra...@adsl-151-203-22-73.bellatlantic.net
>>scientologists who had been harassing and confronting me from the
>>moment I walked off the plane yesterday to bait me into a stupid
>>response around 11:00 pm on Halloween in front of the Fort Harrison.
>
>
>people. Getting the better of you even if for a moment is a
>testament to how much they need to be exposed.
Also, watch for manipulation of the presence of cameras. Shouting and
pushing by them where the camera can't see, then stepping into the
glare of the camera for your response. That got tried on me at one
protest (stiff finger in the middle of my chest). While a physical
response by me might have been legal, it would have looked bad on
the video tape and made the cops leery of future protests.
Bob, I realize you might not wish to say in a public record before a
court date precisely whether you struck someone, pushed back, or what:
save it for court. But if we can get access to the video somehow, this
would be interesting to see and instructive for future protests.
--
Nico Kadel-Garcia
nka...@bellatlantic.net