Another perspective
Cerridwen
above. Always use cryptographic digital signatures to verify
the identity of the sender of any usenet post or e-mail.
I have spent a great deal of time slogging my way through the
transcripts at
http://www.digl-watch.com/bob/http://www.digl-watch.com/bob/
and I believe thatif anyone actually spends the time reading those
transcripts, "with an open mind", they will see that Bob and Stacy are
now in complete cooperation with the C of S.
There is all this speculation about where the transcripts come from and
why more have not been released. Personally, I don't care
where they came from. I've never seen so many transcripts in any Scn
case and I am quite grateful to whoever posted the damn things. I
certainly hope more will be posted in the future but it not, no big
deal.
The other serious bit of speculation is about what "turned Bob and
Stacy"? The speculation runs the full gamut from blackmail, to OSA
holding Minton's kids hostage, to Stacy being a long time OSA Op, to
probably really wild theories that exist in my KF.
I don't know if we will ever know the truth as to why they defected.
While the Bobists all smugly point fingers at other critics for daring
to speak out <shudder> , just like the the C of S does to parishioners
who speak out, something else is going on that I thought I would bring
your attention to.
As most of you know, this entire Bob and Stacy fiasco has been front-
page news in The St. Pete Times. Scientologists in Clearwater do in
fact read the paper, especially if the article is about Scn
It is now well known to the Scientologists of CW that the C of S has
brought the Number one SP on the planet (Minton) and his sidekick
(Brooks) to their knees.
This is a major win for the Scn Indoctrination. It really sends home
the message to all Scientologists that the Handling SP's Tech works and
that SP's who dares to criticise Scn will crumble under the correct
application of the Ethics and OSA tech of the C of S. It sends home
the clear and undisputable message that the C of S will bring on a
reign of Terror into your life if you dare to cross them. And not only
will they ruin you, but that you will then be on your knees making
amends for your crimes against them.
<Pardon me while a find a bush to puke in>
While critics pontificate on ARS and point fingers at each other for
daring to discuss and have a dissenting opinion about the Bob and Stacy
debacle, Scientologists get it driven home and more than ever to NEVER
fuck with the C of S.
No matter how badly Bob and Stacy try to sabotage this case, [and
personally, I don't think they can or will no matter how much they lie,
as the judge is just way to sharp] their offense of deliberately trying
to scuttle this case is minuscule to the offense of driving in the
Scientology indoctrination on the Scientologists that are still in the
C of S.
All Scientologists will eventually be briefed by Int Management as to
how they brought the SP's to there knees with the superior LRH "how to
handle sp's" tech. < gak> .
This will be done at some sort of an event with Rinder and/or DM smugly
telling the story of how these two criminal SP's (Minton and Brooks)
were not only brought down but are now making amends for their crimes
against all of humanity by having the gall to criticize the C of S.
What I am telling you no is not mere speculation. It is happening
right now in CW. Scientologists are proudly talking about how the C of
S has done this. Yes, proudly on the one hand and now with the
additional hidden fear of the C of S and what happens to anyone
who speaks out against them.
The betrayal of Brooks and Minton is almost complete, not only did they
betray people who needed their help and who tried to help them, but
they betray all the Scientologists who might have had a
thought to go out and look and see what the LMT was about. Any
Scientologists that had the idea of taking a first step away from the C
of S may very well be re-thinking that idea and instead, sign up
for some more indocing.
Cerridwen
Cerridwen
Phil Scott
wrote:
>Cerridwen
Dear Cerridwen, Cerridwen,
You are of course correct in many areas, but others see how scientologists can
leave and speak up and not be effectively targeted....
Their Brain Quigley op on me cost the cult and Oracle corp billions..and loss of
the EU market dominance...
Targeting of critics especially as the numbers of ex cult members grows so large
that the CoS cannot hire enough thugs, hit men and whores to go after them all
will be increasingly difficult. and especially as this targeting is exposed on
the web... their bOrgs are still going empty...I predict fewer than 1% of the
cults dissafected in clearwater will even dream of stepping back into that mess
on the basis of Bob and Stacy's actions.
Meantime the cult is looking more and more like the vicious snake it is...the
general public is avoiding it in droves, half of the EU is legislating against
it.
We still do have a problem though, a big one...the criminal empire of the cult
is expanding in the money laundering, stock fraud, espionage and whore house
business's, its also in bed with the CIA's drug and weapons running operations.
Hundred billion dollar a year enterprises.
Its so big now, that as with the CIA, even esposure before congress on the
worlds largest felonies (running hundreds if not thousands of tons of cocain
into the US) is not prosecuted.... thats a bad sign. It goes way beyond the
cults end of it.
Phil Scott
Phil Scott
>
>
>
Bernie - http//welcome.to/ars
14:29:30 -0400 in <880d75ca03607bbb...@anonymous.poster>
>NOTICE: This message may not have been sent by the Sender Name
>above. Always use cryptographic digital signatures to verify
>the identity of the sender of any usenet post or e-mail.
>
>I have spent a great deal of time slogging my way through the
>transcripts at
>
>http://www.digl-watch.com/bob/http://www.digl-watch.com/bob/
>
>and I believe thatif anyone actually spends the time reading those
>transcripts, "with an open mind", they will see that Bob and Stacy are
>now in complete cooperation with the C of S.
They are telling their side of the story. Doesn't necessarily mean they are
in complete cooperation with the CoS.
>There is all this speculation about where the transcripts come from and
>why more have not been released. Personally, I don't care
>where they came from. I've never seen so many transcripts in any Scn
>case and I am quite grateful to whoever posted the damn things. I
>certainly hope more will be posted in the future but it not, no big
>deal.
>
>The other serious bit of speculation is about what "turned Bob and
>Stacy"? The speculation runs the full gamut from blackmail, to OSA
>holding Minton's kids hostage, to Stacy being a long time OSA Op, to
>probably really wild theories that exist in my KF.
You forgot one: that maybe she realized the anti-cult illusion she was
into.
>I don't know if we will ever know the truth as to why they defected.
>
>While the Bobists all smugly point fingers at other critics for daring
>to speak out <shudder> , just like the the C of S does to parishioners
>who speak out, something else is going on that I thought I would bring
>your attention to.
What about "the anti-Bobist all smugly pointing fingers at other critics"?
Doesn't that exist too?
>As most of you know, this entire Bob and Stacy fiasco has been front-
>page news in The St. Pete Times. Scientologists in Clearwater do in
>fact read the paper, especially if the article is about Scn
>
>It is now well known to the Scientologists of CW that the C of S has
>brought the Number one SP on the planet (Minton) and his sidekick
>(Brooks) to their knees.
Could be very well the other way around, Minton being "sidekick" of Brooks.
But anyway, I would not use such a pejorative and hateful word as
"sikekick" in this case.
>This is a major win for the Scn Indoctrination. It really sends home
>the message to all Scientologists that the Handling SP's Tech works and
>that SP's who dares to criticise Scn will crumble under the correct
>application of the Ethics and OSA tech of the C of S. It sends home
>the clear and undisputable message that the C of S will bring on a
>reign of Terror into your life if you dare to cross them.
Maybe it sends out the message that the CoS manoeuvred legally in a right
way and if you screw up your strategy and method you'll get in trouble.
>And not only
>will they ruin you, but that you will then be on your knees making
>amends for your crimes against them.
If you screw up at the start (trying to go round a contract by trying to
include Miscavige, etc) then you may be getting in trouble without any kind
of "reign of terror" - but then, in the name of the holy fight against
Scientology, the end justifies the means... if you get screwed because of
the mistakes you made, don't question yourself, just blame the CoS and all
will go well.
> <Pardon me while a find a bush to puke in>
Puking about your own misconceptions. Mmm.. Maybe that's reason enough to
puke...
>While critics pontificate on ARS and point fingers at each other for
>daring to discuss and have a dissenting opinion about the Bob and Stacy
>debacle, Scientologists get it driven home and more than ever to NEVER
>fuck with the C of S.
I would say rather - never fuck with the true, keep honest in your dealing.
>No matter how badly Bob and Stacy try to sabotage this case, [and
>personally, I don't think they can or will no matter how much they lie,
>as the judge is just way to sharp] their offense of deliberately trying
>to scuttle this case is minuscule to the offense of driving in the
>Scientology indoctrination on the Scientologists that are still in the
>C of S.
Read - "the offence of telling the truth". Now we really don't want that,
do we?
[More of the likes snipped] - In which way is this "another perspective"?
--
Bernie
http://welcome.to/ars
Fluffygirl
"Bernie - http//welcome.to/ars" <a...@welcome.to> wrote in message
news:ls6mjuotf44uqsqvk...@4ax.com...
> "Cerridwen" <anm...@freedom.gmsociety.org> wrote on Sun, 21 Jul 2002
> 14:29:30 -0400 in <880d75ca03607bbb...@anonymous.poster>
>
> >NOTICE: This message may not have been sent by the Sender Name
> >above. Always use cryptographic digital signatures to verify
> >the identity of the sender of any usenet post or e-mail.
> >
> >I have spent a great deal of time slogging my way through the
> >transcripts at
> >
> >http://www.digl-watch.com/bob/http://www.digl-watch.com/bob/
> >
> >and I believe thatif anyone actually spends the time reading those
> >transcripts, "with an open mind", they will see that Bob and Stacy are
> >now in complete cooperation with the C of S.
>
> They are telling their side of the story. Doesn't necessarily mean they
are
> in complete cooperation with the CoS.
Stacy walked by and tickled Moxon under the ribs. She is acting as if she's
done a complete 180.
Stacy has said that the church didn't really kill Lisa McPherson. She's
vilified critics who used to be friends or friendly acquaintances.
>
> >There is all this speculation about where the transcripts come from and
> >why more have not been released. Personally, I don't care
> >where they came from. I've never seen so many transcripts in any Scn
> >case and I am quite grateful to whoever posted the damn things. I
> >certainly hope more will be posted in the future but it not, no big
> >deal.
> >
> >The other serious bit of speculation is about what "turned Bob and
> >Stacy"? The speculation runs the full gamut from blackmail, to OSA
> >holding Minton's kids hostage, to Stacy being a long time OSA Op, to
> >probably really wild theories that exist in my KF.
>
> You forgot one: that maybe she realized the anti-cult illusion she was
> into.
Stacy always was one for the all or nothing package deal routine. She did it
as a church member and she did it as a critic.
First it was Scn is perfect and CofS can do anything it likes. She did some
pretty bad things when she was in, from what I've heard.
Then it was- it's all crap. Auditing's no good. She was earnestly telling
staffers at a Class V Org that she could "help" them regardless of whether
or not they wanted her help.
(If a person doesn't consider him or herself to be in trouble they won't
want someone else's "help").
Then later, not only does she cease criticism but she goes the extra mile in
her comments about the church and critics.
She keeps doing these flip flops. I have reason to theorize that she may
have betrayed or may be betraying the confidences of those who came to her
regarding help getting out of the SO and whatnot.
There's a big difference between ceasing criticism and in selling people
down the river.
If I look at it one way, I get that Stacy's not so hot at differentiation.
If I look at it another way, I get that Stacy may be an extremely
manipulative person whose interest is, was and always has been self
preservation.
Yes, the critic scene is highly problematic. I've written some fairly
scathing criticisms of it as of late.
But the various 180 degree turns and the viciousness and smugness I see
portrayed by the church are also very much a factor and are not mitigated by
the problematic nature of the critic scene.
<snip>
C
Fluffygirl
"Cerridwen" <anm...@freedom.gmsociety.org> wrote in message
news:880d75ca03607bbb...@anonymous.poster...
I know me-toos are sorta frowned on in usenet, but really, Cerridwen,
EXCELLENT post.
You've once again hit the nail right on the head.
C
Zinj
says...
> But the various 180 degree turns and the viciousness and smugness I see
> portrayed by the church are also very much a factor and are not mitigated by
> the problematic nature of the critic scene.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> C
I suspect that an honest evaluation would find that 180Degree switches
are much more typical of victims of Scientology Training than
otherwise.
Zinj
--
When in Danger, or in Doubt; Run in Circles, Scream and Shout -
ARS/Post Bobocalypse
Thomas J Best
<snip>
> This is a major win for the Scn Indoctrination. It really sends home
> the message to all Scientologists that the Handling SP's Tech works and
> that SP's who dares to criticise Scn will crumble under the correct
> application of the Ethics and OSA tech of the C of S. It sends home
> the clear and undisputable message that the C of S will bring on a
> reign of Terror into your life if you dare to cross them. And not only
> will they ruin you, but that you will then be on your knees making
> amends for your crimes against them.
<sigh> You're right. The major objective of the Clearwater Show
Trial has been achieved.
> <Pardon me while a find a bush to puke in>
'Scuse me while I join you. <uuuurrrrp>
>
<snip>
> All Scientologists will eventually be briefed by Int Management as to
> how they brought the SP's to there knees with the superior LRH "how to
> handle sp's" tech. < gak> .
>
> This will be done at some sort of an event with Rinder and/or DM smugly
> telling the story of how these two criminal SP's (Minton and Brooks)
> were not only brought down but are now making amends for their crimes
> against all of humanity by having the gall to criticize the C of S.
Hey, Cerridwen, I hope you'll be able to infiltrate and smuggle out
the news (if you can stand attending).
<snip>
> Cerridwen
tam
"of the few innocent pleasures left....
the jamming of commonsense down the throats
of fools is perhaps the keenest."
Thomas Huxley
Boudewijn van Ingen
wrote:
When $cientologists use fear as a tool like this, what should prevent
everyone from referring to them as "terrorists"?
Deana Holmes
news:880d75ca03607bbb...@anonymous.poster:
<snipt>
> The betrayal of Brooks and Minton is almost complete, not only did they
> betray people who needed their help and who tried to help them, but
> they betray all the Scientologists who might have had a
> thought to go out and look and see what the LMT was about. Any
> Scientologists that had the idea of taking a first step away from the C
> of S may very well be re-thinking that idea and instead, sign up
> for some more indocing.
Cerridwen,
Thank you for that reality check. I confess, as a non-Scn, it's hard for me
to see the impact of the turn of Bob and Stacy upon Scns. I appreciate your
insights--I just wish they weren't so unfortunate. :(
Mirele
mir...@sonic.net
Starshadow
Cerridwen wrote:
Excellent post, Cerridwen and excellent perspective on
what this means to those Scn'ists who are still in the
CofS cult.
Thanks very much.
---
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP5, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
"Scientology in 1986, after fraud judgement in favor
of ex-member Lawrence Wollersheim --'Not one thin dime for
Wollersheim'
Scientology May 9, 2002 before final appeal--
86,746,430 Thin Dimes for Wollersheim." www.factnet.org
www.xenu.net --what the Church of Scientology doesn't want
you to see
Bernie - http//welcome.to/ars
-0500 in <3d3b...@news2.lightlink.com>
>"Bernie - http//welcome.to/ars" <a...@welcome.to> wrote in message
>news:ls6mjuotf44uqsqvk...@4ax.com...
>> "Cerridwen" <anm...@freedom.gmsociety.org> wrote on Sun, 21 Jul 2002
>> 14:29:30 -0400 in <880d75ca03607bbb...@anonymous.poster>
>> >and I believe thatif anyone actually spends the time reading those
>> >transcripts, "with an open mind", they will see that Bob and Stacy are
>> >now in complete cooperation with the C of S.
>>
>> They are telling their side of the story. Doesn't necessarily mean they are
>> in complete cooperation with the CoS.
>
>Stacy walked by and tickled Moxon under the ribs. She is acting as if she's
>done a complete 180.
True. That would be the case if she realized the anti-cult illusion she was
in, but doesn't necessarily mean she would be acting in complete
cooperation with the CoS.
>Stacy has said that the church didn't really kill Lisa McPherson.
That may be her genuine opinion now. Doesn't necessarily mean she would be
acting in complete cooperation with the CoS.
>She's
>vilified critics who used to be friends or friendly acquaintances.
I have not read enough of her testimony yet to see if "vilified" would be
accurate, but if she realized the anti-cult illusion she was in, she would
probably be telling some (probably well-deserved) hard truths about them.
In which way any of these things support the contention that Stacy is now
in complete cooperation with the C of S? In my opinion, it doesn't. It's an
unwarranted assumption by Cerridwen.
>> You forgot one: that maybe she realized the anti-cult illusion she was
>> into.
>
>Stacy always was one for the all or nothing package deal routine. She did it
>as a church member and she did it as a critic.
>
>First it was Scn is perfect and CofS can do anything it likes. She did some
>pretty bad things when she was in, from what I've heard.
I don't know enough of her CoS history do judge that.
>Then it was- it's all crap. Auditing's no good. She was earnestly telling
>staffers at a Class V Org that she could "help" them regardless of whether
>or not they wanted her help.
>
>(If a person doesn't consider him or herself to be in trouble they won't
>want someone else's "help").
Well, she certainly was a rather involved, if not fanatical, anti-cultist.
She believed the Scientology was utter evil, she indulged in end justifies
the means, told lies about the CoS, and even openly and publicly supported
the discriminative anti-cult law in France.
You make a good point there.
At the same time, I found her genuine and sincere in other aspects. I
remember, to take just one example, when Minton accused the CoS of having
killed three cats, she came up with a sincere and factual report showing
that this was not very likely at all. This despite the fact that it would
reflect negatively both against her anti-Scientology agenda and against
Minton himself.
The least you could say is that she was a True Believer, probably on both
sides. However, so far of what I have read of the transcripts myself she
seems extremely sincere and open about the wrong she had done - even though
it may be at some cost for her and Minton.
>Then later, not only does she cease criticism but she goes the extra mile in
>her comments about the church and critics.
>
>She keeps doing these flip flops.
I wouldn't call it a flip flop. She was in the cult illusion. Then she went
into the anti-cult illusion as she came out from the cult one (something
not unknown for ex-members). She may now realize the nature of this
anti-cult illusion and may have popped out from it. It really is a somewhat
"normal" course, though unfortunatly those who realize the anti-cult
illusion are not that many. If she now again falls back into the anti-cult
mindframe, then again pops out of it, and so forth, it may be rightly
called a flip flop. But I don't think it's justified to call it that so
far.
>I have reason to theorize that she may
>have betrayed or may be betraying the confidences of those who came to her
>regarding help getting out of the SO and whatnot.
>
>There's a big difference between ceasing criticism and in selling people
>down the river.
That would be if it was true, which so far is only your hypothetical
theory, as you admit. If my own theory is correct, she would come clean for
the part she screwed up, but wouldn't necessarily join up with the CoS
otherwise or betray confidence of those who came to her regarding help
getting out of the SO (if there ever was any such thing. Remember, the LMT
didn' get even a *single* person out of the CoS that would be known
publicly. Magoo is often cited in this respect, but Magoo didn't come out
of the CoS thanks to the LMT but thanks to Andreas.)
>If I look at it one way, I get that Stacy's not so hot at differentiation.
>
>If I look at it another way, I get that Stacy may be an extremely
>manipulative person whose interest is, was and always has been self
>preservation.
Well, I don't know what's the real situation. But why rule out the
possibility that she just realized the anti-cult illusion she was in? I
don't think anything you said so far above contradict this point. Don't you
think that this is at least a *possibility* that should have been included
in Cerridwend list?
>Yes, the critic scene is highly problematic. I've written some fairly
>scathing criticisms of it as of late.
>
>But the various 180 degree turns and the viciousness and smugness I see
>portrayed by the church are also very much a factor and are not mitigated by
>the problematic nature of the critic scene.
No, you are right about that. Neither the other way around.
--
Bernie
http://welcome.to/ars
Zinj
a...@welcome.to says...
Bernie, you are a smart guy. Especially given the first day of RVY
testimony, it's obvious that Stacy's testimon was about as credible as
a POW.
Got it?
From *my* point of view, I wish Bob's was too, but, it was more just
vindictive resentments.
More or less 'who gives a fuck?'
If I ran the zoo.... I would have told Bob to talk like Stacy.
Clue: it's about as marketable as eboladrops
Jommy Cross
<a...@welcome.to> wrote in msg <ls6mjuotf44uqsqvk...@4ax.com>:
<snip>
>[More of the likes snipped] - In which way is this "another perspective"?
Clearly it's a perspective from inside Co$: Cerridwen points out that
comment so far has concentrated on the effect of these events on the
critical community, and paints a picture of how they might be seen by
deluded culties.
What she said appeared to get your briefs in one big bunch. You normally
try to appear more balanced. Do you find Co$ members speaking out
especially offensive?
Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross
---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------
LaserClam
>
>You are of course correct in many areas, but others see how scientologists
>can
>leave and speak up and not be effectively targeted....
>Their Brain Quigley op on me cost the cult and Oracle corp billions..and loss
>of
>the EU market dominance...
>
>Targeting of critics especially as the numbers of ex cult members grows so
>large
>that the CoS cannot hire enough thugs, hit men and whores to go after them
>all
>will be increasingly difficult.
Have you noticed any one else who has tried to hire a hit man?
roger gonnet
"LaserClam" <lase...@aol.com> a écrit dans le
message de news:
20020722120105...@mb-ck.aol.com...
Perhaps you should hire more of you OSAWhores, LC?
At least, sex is wanted enough, under this sun.
But true, you think it's an implant from psychs?
You must not be thinking a lot by yourself.
roger
Bernie - http//welcome.to/ars
<MPG.17a555793...@news2.lightlink.com>
>Bernie, you are a smart guy. Especially given the first day of RVY
>testimony, it's obvious that Stacy's testimon was about as credible as
>a POW.
Why?
--
Bernie
http://welcome.to/ars
Tanya Durni
Kind of reminds me of Bin Laden and his followers cheering after watching
the twin towers and all the American lives go down in dust.
Zinj
tdu...@rochester.rr.com says...
> Cerridwen wrote:
>
C of S.
> >
> > All Scientologists will eventually be briefed by Int Management as to
> > how they brought the SP's to there knees with the superior LRH "how to
> > handle sp's" tech. < gak> .
> > What I am telling you no is not mere speculation. It is happening
> > right now in CW. Scientologists are proudly talking about how the C of
> > S has done this. Yes, proudly on the one hand and now with the
> > additional hidden fear of the C of S and what happens to anyone
> > who speaks out against them.
> >
> > The betrayal of Brooks and Minton is almost complete, not only did they
> > betray people who needed their help and who tried to help them, but
> > they betray all the Scientologists who might have had a
> > thought to go out and look and see what the LMT was about. Any
> > Scientologists that had the idea of taking a first step away from the C
> > of S may very well be re-thinking that idea and instead, sign up
> > for some more indocing.
> >
> > Cerridwen
>
> Kind of reminds me of Bin Laden and his followers cheering after watching
> the twin towers and all the American lives go down in dust.
>
I think *my* point would be that I don't really care whether
Scientology and Scientologists cheer at their 'big win'.
By its nature, Scientology is the 'Church that Gloats'. It's one of
the constants in Scientology, and one that remains constant despite
how often it comes back to bite them in the butt.
It's a crying shame that Bob and Stacy have come to this, because I
really like them, especially Stacy, and I don't think there's any sane
basis for the very few people who seem intent on 'spinning' things to
show how Bob and Stacy are actually still *helping* fight Scientology.
It just doesn't work.
On the other hand, I have yet to see *any* rational explaination for
how the attempt to convert ARS to 'All-Bob-Bashing-All-The-Time' is
going to help anyobody (except Deana maybe, who needs the catharsis).
Tell me how and what it's supposed to accomplish, and just *maybe*
I'll join the choir.
Personally, I suspect it was a fairly typical 'op' by some
particularly silly people who imagined they were 'helping' Ken Dandar
by 'discrediting' Bob, trying and executing him on ARS.
The fact that their actions are probably more dangerous to Dandar
*and* the Lisa Case than anything Bob or Stacy could do is beyond
their simplistic comprehension.
Beverly Rice
> and I believe thatif anyone actually spends the time reading those
> transcripts, "with an open mind", they will see that Bob and Stacy are
> now in complete cooperation with the C of S.
Okay, call me a Bobist for what I will have to say
here . . .
but I still say that from the beginning Bob really wasn't
able to fully comprehend what he was up against, and that
now even in the midst of being the the arms of the Co$, I
still don't believe he fully comprehends what he is doing.
He is going to regret the heck out of this one day. :-(
On the other hand, my ~opinion~ is that Stacy knows full
well what Miscavige and Rinder are like, and her leading
him to them really makes me sad.
Stacy blew my mind more than anyone else has, and I
admit I am still reeling from the words she has laid
down in legal documentation.
With Stacy, if anybody really has read her words in the
transcripts, it is so much more than just what people are
saying . . . that it is just Bob and Stacy coming out
against Dandar . . . that in itself is one thing.
But Stacy went so much farther than anything to do with
just making statements about Dandar.
I guess that nobody apparantly read the gist of her
statements that Co$ really isn't that bad, that all
the testimony she had ever given before re the Co$
and its abuses and methodologies of abuse and harassment
and intimidation etc., was not true . . .
and totally set up the fact that the Co$ is really okay,
but the critics of Co$ are evil.
I'm not even going to go in to all that entails as
far as basis for future cases re Co$ abuse.
If she states that she just wanted to set the record
straight re Dandar lied, that is one thing. But what
she in turn gave . . .
so much more to Co$ that they wanted that went far beyond
that one issue, I will leave for people to figure out
their own selves.
She was a part of the spin machine while she was with
Miscavige and doing the bidding of Co$ leadership, she
can shed a tear very well, but she knows the score.
> There is all this speculation about where the transcripts come from and
> why more have not been released. Personally, I don't care
> where they came from. I've never seen so many transcripts in any Scn
> case and I am quite grateful to whoever posted the damn things. I
> certainly hope more will be posted in the future but it not, no big
> deal.
My sentiments exactly. This is more than I believe has
ever been seen before, and I do believe that eventually
the rest will come out.
<
The other serious bit of speculation is about what "turned Bob and
> Stacy"? The speculation runs the full gamut from blackmail, to OSA
> holding Minton's kids hostage, to Stacy being a long time OSA Op, to
> probably really wild theories that exist in my KF.
> I don't know if we will ever know the truth as to why they defected.
Truth is quite evidently the one thing that is a
victim in this whole fiasco.
Again, I am sad that while Bob may think he knows what he
is doing and that it is to his advantage, he is going to
surely find out that this was a very big mistake.
> While the Bobists all smugly point fingers at other critics for daring
> to speak out <shudder> , just like the the C of S does to parishioners
> who speak out, something else is going on that I thought I would bring
> your attention to.
> As most of you know, this entire Bob and Stacy fiasco has been front-
> page news in The St. Pete Times. Scientologists in Clearwater do in
> fact read the paper, especially if the article is about Scn
> It is now well known to the Scientologists of CW that the C of S has
> brought the Number one SP on the planet (Minton) and his sidekick
> (Brooks) to their knees.
Yes, a reason to celebrate the fact that "The Tech" works,
and that everything they have been taught from the teachings
of the CST in the name of the HubTOAD is correct.
> This is a major win for the Scn Indoctrination. It really sends home
> the message to all Scientologists that the Handling SP's Tech works and
> that SP's who dares to criticise Scn will crumble under the correct
> application of the Ethics and OSA tech of the C of S.
All hail the works of the CST. But yes, you are correct,
this is a demo better than any clay demo could ever be . . .
you could say it was a "feet of clay" demo. And yes, it
is a topic of commversation with the local Co$bots, and I'm
sure especially those that had regular daily run-ins with
the LMT going in and out of the Co$ "mess hall" and other
doings by the LMT.
> It sends home
> the clear and undisputable message that the C of S will bring on a
> reign of Terror into your life if you dare to cross them. And not only
> will they ruin you, but that you will then be on your knees making
> amends for your crimes against them.
Well, they do need something to validate them as the most
ethical group of people on this planet in their shoulder to
shoulder effort to eliminate the low-toned.
Why shouldn't they have a flesh and blood "win" they can
point to as evidence that the handling of the evile SP's
really does work.
Don't you believe that Co$ members should have something
to pat the back of the tech with? This makes the universe
of tech they are locked in seem so much safer and saner.
> While critics pontificate on ARS and point fingers at each other for
> daring to discuss and have a dissenting opinion about the Bob and Stacy
> debacle, Scientologists get it driven home and more than ever to NEVER
> fuck with the C of S.
Actually, you are correct about this, and that also is yet
another of the fall-out tragedy of the entire fiasco. I think
only those who have been in or around Co$ inner circles free
from the influence of the outside world will ~fully~ grasp the
importance of the increased arrogance and security that this
will feed Co$'ers.
> No matter how badly Bob and Stacy try to sabotage this case, [and
> personally, I don't think they can or will no matter how much they lie,
> as the judge is just way to sharp] their offense of deliberately trying
> to scuttle this case is minuscule to the offense of driving in the
> Scientology indoctrination on the Scientologists that are still in the
> C of S.
If you really read Stacy's words in what was laid out
for her by Co$ attorneys to state in record in court, you will
see that what you just stated above is indeed part of the picture
of the testimony Stacy gave in the case.
> All Scientologists will eventually be briefed by Int Management as to
> how they brought the SP's to there knees with the superior LRH "how to
> handle sp's" tech. < gak> .
Since it worked, why ~not~ use it as a "model of admin", so
to speak . . . "know-how".
> This will be done at some sort of an event with Rinder and/or DM smugly
> telling the story of how these two criminal SP's (Minton and Brooks)
> were not only brought down but are now making amends for their crimes
> against all of humanity by having the gall to criticize the C of S.
Well, I'll wait and see on that, I don't think they are
wanting to go making a lot of braggadicio of that right away.
I'll wait to see if they really will do that at a public event.
I think, of course, I am not sure because while I might like
to think that Co$ is able to learn and may change their ways,
maybe they will not . . .
I can wait and see. I am a very patient woman.
> What I am telling you no is not mere speculation. It is happening
> right now in CW. Scientologists are proudly talking about how the C of
> S has done this. Yes, proudly on the one hand and now with the
> additional hidden fear of the C of S and what happens to anyone
> who speaks out against them.
Well, that is the sad part, the added fear of seeing a
real, live validation of what happens to those who would
dare to speak as being the ends of what they have had
"drilled" in to their heads over and over and over.
Oh ~LOOK~!!!
It really ~IS~ true, what we have been told about trying
to "prevent" scientology.
So sad.
> The betrayal of Brooks and Minton is almost complete, not only did they
> betray people who needed their help and who tried to help them, but
> they betray all the Scientologists who might have had a
> thought to go out and look and see what the LMT was about.
Well now, my thoughts there are that the "in-your-face" type
of approach of LMT from it's very arrival created more of an image
of hostility than one of having the appearance of people who
were there to help.
I think that Ted Mayett stated that very well in one of his posts
on ars. But then, that really doesn't matter now, because it is
all over and done . . .
hindsight.
But the good thing about one's hindsight . . .
is that with some wisdom . . .
it can be the ~foresight~ of another and keep them from
making the same mistakes.
> Scientologists that had the idea of taking a first step away from the C
> of S may very well be re-thinking that idea and instead, sign up
> for some more indocing.
Well, I think with hard-core scientologists this is true . . .
but there is a saving grace that with some people that were
on the edge and not quite decided, it may have deterred . . .
for the same reason that it keeps the well-indoctrinated in . . .
~fear~.
Fear is like a magnet . . .
it not only attracts . . .
but it can also repel.
Thanks for the input. Good to get views from different points
of vision.
ARC = As-Ising the Real CST,
Beverly
Thomas J Best
> Cerridwen wrote:
>
>
> > and I believe thatif anyone actually spends the time reading those
> > transcripts, "with an open mind", they will see that Bob and Stacy are
> > now in complete cooperation with the C of S.
>
>
> Okay, call me a Bobist for what I will have to say
> here . . .
No, ma'am, no 'Bobist'.
> but I still say that from the beginning Bob really wasn't
> able to fully comprehend what he was up against, and that
> now even in the midst of being the the arms of the Co$, I
> still don't believe he fully comprehends what he is doing.
>
> He is going to regret the heck out of this one day. :-(
>
> On the other hand, my ~opinion~ is that Stacy knows full
> well what Miscavige and Rinder are like, and her leading
> him to them really makes me sad.
>
> Stacy blew my mind more than anyone else has, and I
> admit I am still reeling from the words she has laid
> down in legal documentation.
>
> With Stacy, if anybody really has read her words in the
> transcripts, it is so much more than just what people are
> saying . . . that it is just Bob and Stacy coming out
> against Dandar . . . that in itself is one thing.
>
> But Stacy went so much farther than anything to do with
> just making statements about Dandar.
>
> I guess that nobody apparantly read the gist of her
> statements that Co$ really isn't that bad, that all
> the testimony she had ever given before re the Co$
> and its abuses and methodologies of abuse and harassment
> and intimidation etc., was not true . . .
>
> and totally set up the fact that the Co$ is really okay,
> but the critics of Co$ are evil.
That's the whole point. ALL of the testimony, ALL of the
affidavits, ALL of the evidence in EVERY case EVER brought
on was concocted by lawyers and apostates, out for nothing
but money (the real sacrament of $cientologists).
Ms Brooks' testimony was scripted by $cientology, it's operatives
and lawyers. They'll use this in any and every case that's ever
brought.
It'll cost an arm and a leg and probably the trunk too, to get
involved in the discovery, deposition, appeals, moves to other
jurisdictions, and all the other barratry they can think of deploying,
to refute this testimony.
Not to mention, as Carridwen has elsewhere, how they'll use this as
propaganda for intimidation amongst the 'parishioners'.
It's been bought and paid for. The only question really is:
what was the coin?
> ARC = As-Ising the Real CST,
>
> Beverly
tam
"Of the few innocent pleasures left....
Rebecca Hartong
d75bf1a1.02072...@posting.google.com, "Thomas J Best"
<thoma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Beverly Rice <dbj...@mpinet.net> wrote in message
> news:<3D40B5...@mpinet.net>...
>> I guess that nobody apparantly read the gist of her
>> statements that Co$ really isn't that bad, that all
>> the testimony she had ever given before re the Co$
>> and its abuses and methodologies of abuse and harassment
>> and intimidation etc., was not true . . .
>> and totally set up the fact that the Co$ is really okay,
>> but the critics of Co$ are evil.
>
> That's the whole point. ALL of the testimony, ALL of the
> affidavits, ALL of the evidence in EVERY case EVER brought
> on was concocted by lawyers and apostates, out for nothing
> but money (the real sacrament of $cientologists).
>
> Ms Brooks' testimony was scripted by $cientology, it's operatives
> and lawyers. They'll use this in any and every case that's ever
> brought.
> It'll cost an arm and a leg and probably the trunk too, to get
> involved in the discovery, deposition, appeals, moves to other
> jurisdictions, and all the other barratry they can think of deploying,
> to refute this testimony.
>
> Not to mention, as Carridwen has elsewhere, how they'll use this as
> propaganda for intimidation amongst the 'parishioners'.
>
> It's been bought and paid for. The only question really is:
> what was the coin?
I'd guess it was a pair of "Get Out Of Jail Free" cards.
Starshadow
Rebecca Hartong wrote:
I actually now think, due to reading some of the other
lies Ms. Brooks Young Brooks has told over the years to
various people, and based on what has come out of her
years with RVY, that Ms. Brooks has also always tried to
gain what she can for herself, and since she's gotten
money, a house, securities, and so forth but not been able
to make her meal ticket actually divorce his wife, she
sees the writing on the wall --again IMO--and knows that
Minton will waste no time in divesting himself of her
eventually, and will then need some other security.
Perhaps she thinks CofS will give her paid employment, now.
This is all speculation, however, and opinion.
BTW, Beverly, not going to call you a "Bobist" nor a
"Bob Zombie"--it's true he didn't know what he was getting
into, IMO, again, but not from lack of folk trying. His
own arrogance did him in, in the end.
This doesn't speak well of him.
JimDBB
>From: Starshadow stars...@starshadow.net
>Date: 7/26/02 9:38 AM Central
>I actually now think, due to reading some of the other
>lies Ms. Brooks Young Brooks has told over the years to
>various people, and based on what has come out of her
>years with RVY, that Ms. Brooks has also always tried to
>gain what she can for herself, and since she's gotten
>money, a house, securities, and so forth but not been able
>to make her meal ticket actually divorce his wife, she
>sees the writing on the wall --again IMO--and knows that
>Minton will waste no time in divesting himself of her
>eventually, and will then need some other security.
>Perhaps she thinks CofS will give her paid employment, now.
It's interesting that you can stoop to such despicable personal attacks but you
don't want anybody to post your name.
Jimdbb
Bat Child (Sue M.)
Um, actually, I believe Starshadow IS her legal name.
>
>Jimdbb
http://members.cox.net/batchild1
http://members.cox.net/scorseseinfo
Rod Keller
: Ms Brooks' testimony was scripted by $cientology, it's operatives
: and lawyers.
This is certainly a fabrication.
--
Rod Keller/ Irresponsible Publisher/ Black Hat #1/ OSA Patsy/ Killer Rod
Expert of the Toilet/ CWPD Mouthpiece/ Shelly Thompson in Drag
The Lerma Apologist/ Merchant of Chaos/ Socio-Political Censor
Bigot of Mystery/ Quasi-Scieno/ Mental Bully/ Vision of Destruction
Starshadow
Rod Keller wrote:
> Thomas J Best (thoma...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> : Ms Brooks' testimony was scripted by $cientology, it's operatives
> : and lawyers.
>
> This is certainly a fabrication.
>
>
And we should believe Rodless Keller exactly why?
Starshadow
It is indeed, but unfortunately, Jim Beebe has a memory
to match the rest of his moronic posts. He doesn't
remember from one day to the next what he himself says
about quarantining homosexuals, or how all Muslims are
being trained as terrorists, or that this ng is about
CofS, not LDS.
So how can he be expected to remember a small thing like
the fact that I've never hidden my real name and never,
ever, said one word about anyone posting my real name?
----
Pts 2
I think those ARS labels are just silly given the M.O. of $cn to infuse
divisiveness between normally well-intended people.
Having said that, I think Beverly Rice's post here is pretty much on
target as a reasonable assessment of the situation. Also knowing
Beverly, I am certain it came from the heart, and was genuinely sincere
with the purpose of healing and providing insight into a VERY complex
matter.
IMHO,
Tom
<><><><><><><><><><><>
www.WhyAreTheyDead.net
----------------------------------------------------------------
If I ever trust an ex-scientologist again, I need my head examined.
TIGGER
Bernie - http//welcome.to/ars
GMT in <3D41AD6D...@starshadow.net>
> It is indeed, but unfortunately, Jim Beebe has a memory
>to match the rest of his moronic posts. He doesn't
>remember from one day to the next what he himself says
>about quarantining homosexuals, or how all Muslims are
>being trained as terrorists, or that this ng is about
>CofS, not LDS.
>
> So how can he be expected to remember a small thing like
>the fact that I've never hidden my real name and never,
>ever, said one word about anyone posting my real name?
I think he's mixing you with Tigger. For some reasons. Go figure :-)
--
Bernie
http://welcome.to/ars
JimDBB
> It is indeed, but unfortunately, Jim Beebe has a memory
>to match the rest of his moronic posts. He doesn't
>remember from one day to the next what he himself says
>about quarantining homosexuals, or how all Muslims are
>being trained as terrorists, or that this ng is about
>CofS, not LDS.
In fact Islamic terrorists are promoting, funding and recruiting in most if not
all american and european mosques, and of course the middle eastern mosques.
This is being confirmed almost daily in news reports.
If one reads only your posts one would assume that this newsgroup is about
attacking Bob Minton and Stacy Brooks. I can't remember much of anything in
your posts about Scientology.
> So how can he be expected to remember a small thing like
>the fact that I've never hidden my real name and never,
>ever, said one word about anyone posting my real name?
I goofed there, as I thought that Tigger made that statement. Sorry.
JImdbb
Thomas J Best
> Thomas J Best (thoma...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> : Ms Brooks' testimony was scripted by $cientology, it's operatives
> : and lawyers.
>
> This is certainly a fabrication.
It certainly is. I fabricated it out of thousands of words
in the transcripts, thousands of words in the cult's policies,
and thousands of words in other judicial proceedings involving
the cult.
You have something other than a one-liner to back up your
assertion?
Thomas J Best
Unfortunately, I think you're going to have to guess again.
The cult will never let either of them rest :-( They're
going to be dragged out, in person or in deposition or in
evidence, over and over again. Their 'amends project' will
be fearsome.
Tigger
will very likely happen because of Minton and Brooks'
becoming witnesses (for whatever reason) for Mike Rinder and the COS.
Thanks also to Thomas J. Best for his followup. I send very few a.r.s.
posts to people who do not read a.r.s......but both of yours will go
out into the real world where the real damage that Minton, Brooks and
COS have wrought will happen.
Tigger
**************************************
May 26, 2002
"Scientology is a huge bluff. The one thing it cannot withstand is the
truth, simply told."
Richard Ford
**************************************
September 13, 1999
"PLEASE KNOW THAT YOU CAN TRUST ME."
STACY BROOKS YOUNG BROOKS
Confessed LIAR ~ April 9, 2002
**************************************
Tigger
too.
Rod Keller
> rke...@netaxs.com (Rod Keller) wrote in message news:<k%g09.3764$7t.16...@newshog.newsread.com>...
>>Thomas J Best (thoma...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>>: Ms Brooks' testimony was scripted by $cientology, it's operatives
>>: and lawyers.
>>
>>This is certainly a fabrication.
>
> It certainly is. I fabricated it out of thousands of words
> in the transcripts, thousands of words in the cult's policies,
> and thousands of words in other judicial proceedings involving
> the cult.
>
> You have something other than a one-liner to back up your
> assertion?
Perhaps if you fabricated it, you would say that rather than assert it
as a fact. There are several reasons to believe that Stacy spoke in her
own words and without scripting. First, there was direct and redirect
examination. We can eliminate roughly half of it being scripted because
it was redirect. So you're half wrong before we get started, by
definition. Second, I think it might be possible to memorize a few pages
of testimony, but I think the length of even the direct examination part
precludes scripting. Third, we know that even when a Scientologist
testifies with a Scientology lawyer, they use hand signals and not
scripting. It's not a Scientology pattern to script testimony. Fourth,
we know the time line of meetings prior to the first day of testimony,
and there was no meeting held to conduct such in-depth scripting. Fifth,
Stacy's testimony was consistent between the allegedly scripted portion
and the impossible to script redirect, even in the pattern of words she
used to describe the events. Scripted testimony would likely be
different from spontaneous testimony, and hers was not. Sixth, Stacy was
not represented by a Scientology attorney, she had her own. Therefore
any scripting discussions would not be protected by client-attorney
privilege and I don't think they would risk that in such an important
hearing. Seventh, Scientology hires good lawyers. I don't think any good
lawyer would prefer scripted testimony over the words that come
naturally to a witness, particularly one with a distinctive pattern of
speaking such as Stacy's. Lawyers will sometimes go over a few key
points that will come up on direct examination, but it's usually
counterproductive to coach a witness on every point of testimony, every
turn of phrase. It comes across as insincere.
Do you have a single argument as to why you think the testimony was
scripted? If not, I think you should apologize and retract your statement.
Tigger
that was needed, but was given license to use his/her own words to get
the "story" across?
Whether it was "scripted" by drilling and memorization or by telling
the "actor" the story line he/she must produce, Brooks "stories" were
influenced by the COS.
But Brooks didn't succeed (for whatever rerason) in getting the "story"
across that COS wanted her to get across. The Judge and everyone else
(except maybe Keller, Lerma, DBB, Perkins, Padgett, ect. who won't, or
don't want to, admit it) saw her tell lie after lie (via the
transcripts) on the stand in Judge Schaeffer's court.
Rebecca Hartong
> Rebecca Hartong <rhar...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:<B966B2CC.604B%rhar...@cox.net>...
(snip)
>>> It's been bought and paid for. The only question really is:
>>> what was the coin?
>>
>> I'd guess it was a pair of "Get Out Of Jail Free" cards.
>
> Unfortunately, I think you're going to have to guess again.
> The cult will never let either of them rest :-( They're
> going to be dragged out, in person or in deposition or in
> evidence, over and over again. Their 'amends project' will
> be fearsome.
I wouldn't be at all surprised.
When I referred to "jail", though, I meant it quite literally.
Pts 2
Keller, Lerma, DBB, Perkins, Padgett, ect., who won't, or don't want to,
admit it) saw her tell lie after lie (vie the transcripts) on the stand
in Judge Schaeffer's court."
Cutting through "the Tigger" wisdom.....
Shirley, I have not read in the transcripts where anyone has officially
appointed you as the Judge's law clerk or the court's media contact.
What I did read a while ago, is that cult atty Moxon wanted you Shirley
Wilson (and Deana Homes) as witnesses in the case re: ARS usenet issues
and concerns. Moxon did NOT ask for "the Tigger," he asked for YOU.
I seriously doubt anyone here is blind to the abundance of lies,
untruths, and misrepresentations in the Lisa M. case in Florida. That
is a standard observance in any and all $cn related cases - SOS. For
you to narrow the lying factor down to just Stacy, indicates that your
focus on the lethal abuses caused by the actual and true defendants in
the case is still out to lunch.
I continue to hope and to pray, that Judge Schaeffer will follow through
on her threat to turn this crud over to prosecutor Bernie McCabe and
McCabe in turn invites the FBI in for back up help. I hope the Florida
and Federal authorities move with swift, prudent, and decisive
action.....including contacting you
as to why YOU feel you are the internet spokesperson for the CW court,
the judge, and the plaintiffs. But I'm afraid that's all wishful
thinking and Schaeffer will whimp out in the end.
Bright Blessings, :)
Starshadow
JimDBB wrote:
>>Subject: Re: Another perspective
>>From: Starshadow stars...@starshadow.net
>>Date: 7/26/02 3:11 PM Central
>>
>
>>It is indeed, but unfortunately, Jim Beebe has a memory
>>to match the rest of his moronic posts. He doesn't
>>remember from one day to the next what he himself says
>>about quarantining homosexuals, or how all Muslims are
>>being trained as terrorists, or that this ng is about
>>CofS, not LDS.
>>
>
> In fact Islamic terrorists are promoting, funding and recruiting in most if not
> all american and european mosques, and of course the middle eastern mosques.
> This is being confirmed almost daily in news reports.
Of course the facts are that this is not a newsgroup
about "islamic terrorists" and that not all American or
European mosques are doing "recruiting, funding, and
promoting" of terrorists, no matter what your selective
reading of the news tells you. I'm no fan of Islam, for
quite different reasons, but this is not a newsgroup about
Islam in any case.
>
> If one reads only your posts one would assume that this newsgroup is about
> attacking Bob Minton and Stacy Brooks. I can't remember much of anything in
> your posts about Scientology.
>
Of course the facts are that Minton and Brooks are
WORKING for the CofS now, and of course the facts are that
this is more than relevant to a ng about Scn'y and the
abuses of the CofS.
And of course the facts are that you continue to post
crap you pull out of your arse about your own prejudices,
even going so far as to mix me up with Tigger, or quite
stupidly "demand" things of others you aren't likely to
get, as well as speak for others than yourself, when you
whine about Deana and Diane continuing to post here as well.
The truth is, Jim, you're not only a moron, but a bigot,
and how you can continue to believe in the Bob and Stacy
cult is beyond me. But do carry on. It's so telling of how
cultists will go to any length to justify their irrationality.
No wonder you were sucked in by Scn'y, Inc.
---
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP5, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
"Scientology in 1986, after fraud judgement in favor
of ex-member Lawrence Wollersheim --'Not one thin dime for
Wollersheim'
Scientology May 9, 2002 before final appeal--
86,746,430 Thin Dimes for Wollersheim." www.factnet.org
www.xenu.net --what the Church of Scientology doesn't want
you to see
>
A.Melon
>What would testimony be called if the "actor" was told the type of story
>that was needed, but was given license to use his/her own words to get
>the "story" across?
If the "type of story" was to tell the truth, then the testimony could be
called "true". What do you think the "type of story that was needed" is?
>Whether it was "scripted" by drilling and memorization or by telling
>the "actor" the story line he/she must produce, Brooks "stories" were
>influenced by the COS.
What was this "story line" that was "scripted"?
>But Brooks didn't succeed (for whatever rerason) in getting the "story"
>across that COS wanted her to get across.
What story was this? Can you elucidate?
>The Judge and everyone else
>(except maybe Keller, Lerma, DBB, Perkins, Padgett, ect. who won't, or
>don't want to, admit it) saw her tell lie after lie (via the
>transcripts) on the stand in Judge Schaeffer's court.
Some of her testimony agrees with Dandar's. Some doesn't. It can't be all
lies. unless Dandar is also lying. Can you post excerpts of Brooks'
testimony where you feel she is lying? Pretend you are Judge Schaeffer
listening to Brooks' testimony.
>Tigger
Tigger
(Pts 2)wrote:
>Boobootigger wrote: <snip> "The Judge
> and every else (except maybe Keller,
> Lerma, DBB, Perkins, Padgett, ect., who
> won't, or don't want to, admit it) saw her
> tell lie after lie (vie the transcripts) on
> the stand in Judge Schaeffer's court."
Gee Tom, Sweetie,
Wouldn't you like to learn how to CCP and transfer? You wouldn't want
anyone to think a stupid tigger, who needs professional help. can do
something you can't do, now would you, Honey?
>Cutting through "the Tigger" wisdom.....
>Shirley, I have not read in the transcripts
> where anyone has officially appointed
> you as the Judge's law clerk or the
> court's media contact.
Gosh Sugar, did someone say I was? Please tell me who it was so I can
oh so gently, politely and compassionately tell them they are wrong.
>What I did read a
> while ago, is that cult atty Moxon >wanted you Shirley Wilson (and
Deana
> Homes) as witnesses in the case re:
> ARS usenet issues and concerns.
> Moxon did NOT ask for "the Tigger," he
> asked for YOU.
Oh gosh, sweet cheeks, I am so glad you can read. I was afraid the
OSA/COS/exwife/Kentucky Judge had taken that away from you too.
>I seriously doubt anyone here is blind to
> the abundance of lies, untruths, and
> misrepresentations in the Lisa M. case
> in Florida. That is a standard
> observance in any and all $cn related
> cases - SOS.
Oh geewhiz, I didn't know there had been other "critics" who had lied so
much for the COS in legal cases. Oh Sweetheart, please do, tell me who.
>For you to narrow the lying factor down
> to just Stacy, indicates that your focus
> on the lethal abuses caused by the
> actual and true defendants in the case is
> still out to lunch.
Jeepers, I do hope, Tommy, dollface, that after you have had "your"
lunch, you don't have to barf in the bushes.
>I continue to hope and to pray, that
> Judge Schaeffer will follow through on
> her threat to turn this crud over to
> prosecutor Bernie McCabe and McCabe
> in turn invites the FBI in for back up
> help. I hope the Florida and Federal
> authorities move with swift, prudent,
> and decisive action
Yes, you are quite right, Pumpkin', ANYONE who commits perjury or a
fraud on the court, suborns perjury, evades taxes and launders money
could be in BIG TROUBLE with several law enforcement agencies, both
state and federal. Why don't you, being the sweet, kind, compasiionate,
unselfish , modest darling you are, persuade Mr. Minton to throw
himself on the mercy of the court, Bernie McCabe, the F.B.I., and the
I.R.S. and tell what Mike Rinder and Sacy Brooks (and Deana and Tigger)
made him do.
>.....including
> contacting you
>as to why YOU feel you are the internet
> spokesperson for the CW court, the
> judge, and the plaintiffs.
Oh gee, Pookie, it's right kind of you to consider my feelings, but
someone has misinforamed you. I don't feel that way.
But it's really sweet, Sweet Cheeks, that you think I could help out
the FBI, etc. No doubt you will want to do the sweet, kind,
compassionate unspiteful thing and email the F.B.I. and the OSA my
name, address, telephone number and give them directions to my humble
abode.
> But I'm afraid
> that's all wishful thinking and Schaeffer
> will whimp out in the end.
Yes, Sugar, there are a lot of wimps floating around, aren't there? :-)
Sincerely and compassionately yours, :-)
TIGGER
>Bright Blessings, :)
>Tom
<><><><><><><><><><><>
>ww.WhyAreTheyDead.net
----------------------------------------------
>If I ever trust an ex-scientologist again, I >need my head examined.
TIGGER
*********************************************
"Tom has asked Tigger not to flame and use ugly name-calling to get a
point across, YOU KNOW why Tom doesn't want to engage in unproductive
ugly flaming and hurtful name-calling."
THOMAS CARTER PADGETT
Pts 2
cheeks...sweetheart... dollface ... pumpkin .... pookie...."
Well Tigger:
Now don't be too honest, the DGATGA gang might toss you out of their
membership! :) Also the general readership of ARS might get the
impression that you and I have a thing going to
flush out all the "fence sitters!" :}
Your hyperbole aside, it's good to see that you got your ol' sense of
humor back. When I said for you to be more civil, I didn't mean
"syrupy."
You're a hoot darl'n! I wuv you too. Like Claire says, it's time for
group hugs.
Tom
---------------------------------------
www.FairGamed.org
P.S. And yes, as you suggested, I will tell Bob Minton to throw himself
to the mercy of the Court......once I am convinced Judge Schaeffer is
capable of showing mercy in the vast scope of things, and when there is
solid proof that she is not a victim of:
http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/judgetampering.html But not a minute
sooner. Sadly, I suspect that's a long ways off though. ;(
mir...@sonic.net
>
> Do you have a single argument as to why you think the testimony was
> scripted? If not, I think you should apologize and retract your statement.
I don't think Thomas Best owes Rod Keller or Stacy Brooks any sort of
apology. After all, the only person who has backed up Bob Minton's lies has
been one Stacy Brooks, and the only person backing up Stacy Brooks' lies has
been one Bob Minton. Unfortunately, Rod Keller has his tinfoil hat set
on "fry" and can't seem to muster up the brainpower to read the transcripts
(or to mention them in his "Week in Denial") to see what his gurus have been
doing since at least March.
It's apparent to me, having read the transcripts, that the cult prepped Stacy
and Bob very carefully as to what they were going to cover. They would be
stupid not to. If it wasn't scripted, it was pretty damn close.
Nobody owes Stacy Brooks an apology--after all, she has betrayed her former
friends and is now helping Scientology. All Stacy deserves is excoriation.
I won't stand idly by, Rod Keller, and have you present Stacy as a wronged
woman when it's apparent on the face of it that your guru lied through her
teeth to protect herself (and to some extent Bob Minton). The only wrong
that has been perpetuated is the wrong upon the court of Judge Schaeffer, who
had to listen to Stacy's uncorroborated b.s. for as long as she did.
Mirele
mir...@sonic.net
Dave Bird
>ewshog.newsread.com>...
>>>Thomas J Best (thoma...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>>>: Ms Brooks' testimony was scripted by $cientology, it's operatives
>>>: and lawyers.
>>>
>>>This is certainly a fabrication.
>>
>> It certainly is. I fabricated it out of thousands of words
>> in the transcripts, thousands of words in the cult's policies,
>> and thousands of words in other judicial proceedings involving
>> the cult.
>>
>> You have something other than a one-liner to back up your
>> assertion?
>
>
>Perhaps if you fabricated it, you would say that rather than assert it
>as a fact. There are several reasons to believe that Stacy spoke in her
>own words and without scripting. First, there was direct and redirect
>examination. We can eliminate roughly half of it being scripted because
>it was redirect. So you're half wrong before we get started, by
>definition. Second, I think it might be possible to memorize a few pages
>of testimony, but I think the length of even the direct examination part
>precludes scripting. Third, we know that even when a Scientologist
>testifies with a Scientology lawyer, they use hand signals and not
>scripting. It's not a Scientology pattern to script testimony. Fourth,
I very much doubt that Stacy's testimony was "scripted", in there
sense there were written-up pages of what to say word by word. That
would be very impractical. Most ordinary people would be quite
incapable of learning it, let alone keeping it up under examination.
Rather I suspect she was told, here are the few key points of
what (you will maintain) actually happened. Fill in and justify:
you've done Training Routine Lie, you should be practised at it.
Where it falls down is in the ability to produce further detail --
which, remember, may have to be coordinated with Bob without the
risk of consulting between hearings -- so eventually it grinds
to a halt under shrewd questioning, especially the Court's.
>we know the time line of meetings prior to the first day of testimony,
>and there was no meeting held to conduct such in-depth scripting. Fifth,
>Stacy's testimony was consistent between the allegedly scripted portion
>and the impossible to script redirect, even in the pattern of words she
>used to describe the events. Scripted testimony would likely be
>different from spontaneous testimony, and hers was not. Sixth, Stacy was
>not represented by a Scientology attorney, she had her own. Therefore
>any scripting discussions would not be protected by client-attorney
>privilege and I don't think they would risk that in such an important
>hearing. Seventh, Scientology hires good lawyers. I don't think any good
>lawyer would prefer scripted testimony over the words that come
>naturally to a witness, particularly one with a distinctive pattern of
>speaking such as Stacy's. Lawyers will sometimes go over a few key
>points that will come up on direct examination, but it's usually
>counterproductive to coach a witness on every point of testimony, every
>turn of phrase. It comes across as insincere.
>
>Do you have a single argument as to why you think the testimony was
>scripted? If not, I think you should apologize and retract your statement.
>
>--
>Rod Keller/ Irresponsible Publisher/ Black Hat #1/ OSA Patsy/ Killer Rod
>Expert of the Toilet/ CWPD Mouthpiece/ Shelly Thompson in Drag
>The Lerma Apologist/ Merchant of Chaos/ Socio-Political Censor
>Bigot of Mystery/ Quasi-Scieno/ Mental Bully/ Vision of Destruction
>
>
--
FUCK THE SKULL OF HUBBARD, AND BUGGER THE DWARF HE RODE IN ON!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8====3 (O 0) GROETEN --- PRINTZ XEMU EXTRAWL no real OT has
|n| (COMMANDER, FIFTH INVADER FORCE) ever existed
.................................................................
STOP PRESS: EIGHTY SEVEN MILLION THIN DIMES FOR WOLLERSHEIM =====>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63143-2002May9.html