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Jun 17, 2006, 6:17:46 AM6/17/06


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Allarme Scientology


The disqueting story of Ilkido, OT VIII, and the mysterious
disappearance of her 26 cats
Interview made in April 2006 by Martini.

In mid March 2006, a reader of my website sent me a curious
letter published by the daily Avvenire.

The letter said:


Dear Editor,

the follower of the religion called Scientology is convinced
that once he has reached a level called "OT 8", he will
achieve the skills of those Hindu gurus who manage to travel
through space without their bodies and who carry out magical
actions cancelling physical laws. Also, future reincarnations
as human beings or as animals are supposed to cease - thus
conquering immortality! - and the believer is supposed to meet
with happiness and success in his or her present life. This is
what the founder of Scientology, Ron Hubbard, has promised.

Unfortunately, ten years ago, I fell into the trap set by this
gentleman. To achieve the state of "OT 8" one had to make a
"fixed donation" (irrelevant of one's income) of at least 500
million Italian Lire [translator's note: more than 250.000
Euros]. I know this well, because, besides that amount, I also
spent a further 8000 dollars to find harmony with my husband,
who is an OT too!

When I finally reached the level of "OT 8" the results I
obtained were: a divorce, heart trouble, head ache and
tremendous nightmares every night (including an
aggression by a reptilean monster which puts me into a state
of depression for the whole day).

Luckily I have not renounced by Catholic faith, so I am still
able to think with my own head. Today there is a good
psychiatrist who is helping me to erase the outcome of the
psychophysical violence, of the interference in my private
life and of all the deceptions committed by the staff of
Scientology. And I am still waiting to get my money back.

Ildiko Bajnoczi - Appignano (Macerata)
(L'Avvenire, March, 15th 2006)

So I started looking for Ildiko. It was not hard to find this
beautiful blonde lady of Hungarian origin. Appignano is a
lovely small Medieval village nestling amidst the hills of
inland Marche, everybody knows everybody else, especially the
"lady of the cats".

So here I am at last, in front of Ildiko Bajnoczi, for this
long interview.

Well, Ilkido, would you like to tell me briefly how you got to
know Scientology?

I got to Italy in the early '70s. I had had a difficult childhood in
Hungary, I lost my mother when I was still a child. I had always been
a fragile and insecure person. In 1982, I saw by chance a TV programme
held by Pier Paderni. He was speaking abou the "anatomy of the human
mind" and Scientology. Life had made be insecure but also very
curious. There were things I thought I would never be able to solve, I
suffered from panic attacks, but I didn't want to start taking
pychotrope drugs, and I wanted to take another road. That programme
made me curious, and attracted me. I remembered how I had once been
approached by people from Scientology while I was walking in the
centre of Milan. At the time, I went away, but I had promised myself
to go back. Which is exactly what I did.

I started with a four hour auditing course of "Book One". I asked
whether there was something more powerful. They told me about
professional auditing, so I purchased two intensives which I used for
a procedure called "Life repair": I found this very useful, it seemed
to me as if the auditor could read my mind. At that moment I felt a
promise of happiness, a way to free myself from suffering, and also a
way to try out new paths.

I didn't know a "Bridge" existed. When they showed me the "Chart
Grade", and I saw that it was only the beginning of a long road, I
felt a strong determination to get to the top. If so little had given
me so much, who knows what I would find as I rose up. I had great
confidence. So I purchased all the auditing up to Clear.

When I got to that level, I felt very contented and enthusiastic. I
felt well, I felt the energy flowing powerfully. I still was not very
interested in the OT levels. However, after a short period of time,
that initial feeling of exaltation began to weaken. At that point, the
staff of Scientology are good at their job, they speak to you, they
handle you, they say you are in danger, they create an atmosphere of

So you didn't hesitate very long to go ahead on the Bridge?

No. They work a lot on your wish to feel well, to be better, to see
life in a lighter way, to float on the surface without ever going down
into the "mechanics" to fight, it is very inviting. I of course was
curious to know myself, since I was not very sure of myself, I also
wanted to find out the reason for so many things, so it was easy to
handle me, they didn't have to work hard. There was also the desire to
be above the masses, different, more powerful than other people. They
work on your ego, all of us want these things. It is as if a little
devil were talking to you, sell your soul and you will get everything,
power, beauty, riches. Of course they don't speak so explicitly, but
they convince you that you have to do everything to to get there, once
you've got there you'll have everything, both from this life and

What were your experiences with the OT levels?

Before the OT levels, I was sure I would become omnipotent, a kind of
almighty. This is how the OT levels are presented in the magazines and
literature of Scientology. Those who had already reached that level
showed an incredible confidence in themselves and power on life. I
started out full of enthusiasm and hopes. Then the trouble began. The
weirdest things started happening to me. I found the tyres of my car
had been cut, I got threatening calls. I don't know who it was, who
hated me that much. "But how can this be", I said to myself, "I have
just attested OT3 or 4, why do things like this happen to me? This
kind of aggression?" But I still didn't want to see. I justified and
rationalised, telling myself that I was restimulating the "group
bank". I was winning, and then the bank was putting all these trials
in my path since it was rebelling against my strength: I considered
these events to be a confirmation that everything was working, it was
a rebellion by the bank against my power. Then just after I attested
OT 5 I got sick. I was in bed for two weeks with a 40 degree
centigrade fever. I continued however to glide over things, I didn't
want to stop and reflect. I was very perplexed, I expected to be
strong, yet I was weak. I rationalised it, thinking that now that I
had freed myself from so much mass, I was more exposed, and hence more
fragile. I rationalised, I kept on rationalising right to the end.

After I attested OT 8 - I was one of the first scientologists to reach
that level in 1989
- I fell ill. I wasn't able to stand up, I was disconcerted, I kept
saying to myself, how can this be, I attested yesterday and today I
can't even stand up, I was falling all over the place, but I had to
make an effort to appear strong and show everybody how I had

Did you tell anybody about your problems?

No. Of course, I talked about them with my auditors and the C/S's, my
story is all written down in my folders. But I never spoke about it
with the other scientologists. To the outside world, I gave a happy
and winning image, the OT's cannot show that they have problems. You
learn how to show a social facade where everything seems to be going
well, showing yourself to be a winner all along the line.

However, I always had problems. After OT 3 and OT5, I continued to
have attacks of anxiety. They should have disappeared after Clear,
when you are supposed to have solved your problems with the first
dynamic. But things didn't go that way. However, I saw this as a
thrust to move ahead, I told myself, "here, I'll go on to OT 6 now, to
OT 7 "solo" auditing, and everything will fall into place". I always
worked honestly at every level, on OT 7 I went into session 2 or 3
times a day, it was in my interest to do so. My first intention was to
feel better. However, anxiety and troubles didn't cease.

In the meantime, I had received reviews on OT 3 and OT 5, I had also
done two L's and the OT Debug on the Ship. Years later, after I
attested OT 8, they told me "Ah, OT 7 wasn't done well, we've got to
do it all over again". So I went back for a second time on OT 7
. They reascertained my state of Clear again, but everything was OK.

And did you settle your problems at that point?

No, I continued to suffer from anxiety, and I certainly could not say
I was well. Then in 1996 the "Golden Age of Technology" came out, and
they told us that all those who had done OT 7 and OT 8 had to do them
over again, because they had seen that nobody had done those levels
well. After years and years, we had to do everything all over again,
at our own expense. So, 9 years after I had attested OT 8 I went back
for the third time on OT 7. In the meantime, I continued explaining
things away to myself, telling myself that perhaps I had missed
something, maybe something had not been done well, perhaps they hadn't
realised it, even though I had been to Flag regularly evey six months,
to have my work checked as prescribed, and despite all the reviews. I
was convinced that this third time everything would turn out well, I
was very confident. I stayed at Flag for 6 months, but after doing no
less than 12 intensives, each costing 7.000 dollars, I found out that
I was only halfway through the programme. Between the services and
accommodation, I had by now spent nearly 100,000 dollars, but the road
to go back to "solo" auditing was still very long. It was 1998, and I
had run out of all my resources by now. At this point, I decided to
give up. I had spent all my money, hope and energy, and it was a big
failure for me.

In the meantime I had also completed other courses and services, such
as the "False Purpose Rundown", the OT debug, two L's. The L's are
very powerful and costly processing, why did they give it to me if
something was wrong? I had been through all the reviews, then I also
started "Key to Life" but then I stopped and had to give up. Something
went into restimulation, I was in a terrible state, I wanted to throw
myself overboard from the ship and swim away. Everything kept getting
worse and worse. But I resisted. Then they told me, "let's solve
everything by re-doing OT 7". I told myself, "of course, the problem
is certainly there, I'll put myself together again, I'll audit myself
every day and get strong, that way I can do everything I want in my
life". But I never got there. I ran out of resources and had to give

However I was still calm. I still communicated with the C/S, I
corresponded with the DofP, I even wrote to the Senior C/S
International, and he answered that he would have all my folders
reviewed, so that when I got back to Flag, I would find everything in
order and a new programme to work on. He told me to go on taking other
courses, and when I was no longer "sickly", I could go back to Flag.
So I went on attending the Mission of Macerata, where I re-did PTS/SP
for the third time, together with other courses which I don't

Before going on with the last phase of your experience in
Scientology and the incredible story of the disappearance of
your whole cat colony, could you tell me about your marriage?

I was married twice. My first husband did a few hours of Book One
auditing, but then decided not to go on any further. He also purchased
some 30 million Italian lire [about 15.000 Euros] in WISE services,
but they sent him "out reality", and in the end he gave it all up.

After becoming OT 8, I got to know the person who would become my
second husband better. We had got to know each other when he was doing
the sauna, but then he blew the "Purif". They asked me to get hold of
him again, and so I did. I don't know exactly what I told him, but I
managed to convince him to come back, and right after, he bought it
all, the Clear pack and the OT pack too. We used to see each other at
the Milan org, where I studied, and I fell madly in love with him. I
divorced, and soon after, we got married.

Even though I was head over heels in love, our marriage didn't work
out. Our marriage was full of problems and strains, and I suffered a
lot. But I didn't give up. I told myself, "you will see, when you are
farther along the Bridge, things will work out, you will see, he will
change, he will change", but he never changed, he got to be OT 5 and
didn't change, he only got worse. I resisted, also because I hoped
that the OT levels could help him with this kind of conflicts. I also
requested a Marriage Assist and he didn't want to do it, but I told
him, "No, we can't go on living for ever with this weird thing between
us". After the Marriage Assist, he stopped speaking to me. The purpose
was to settle our problems, but he stopped speaking to me. Whether we
stayed together, or got separated, there had to be a solution, but
there wasn't. Later on for the overwhelming stress I was experimenting
I had to get the help of a professional nurse and, at the time, a
scientologist. Despite everything, I was very much in love with my
husband, and I am a peaceful person, and this too is why I underwent
so much for such a long time. Then the last straw came, I got to the
point where I was no longer able to put up with it, and reacted. Only
then did I change, another blow of whatever nature would have been the
end for me. However, we are not settling things up for the divorce,
and he's showing good will and cooperation.

Meanwhile, Ildiko shows me a large folder of clinical exams
and ECG tracks which clearly shows that, although she is just
52, her health is not the best. I ask her whether, before
finally separating from her husband, she ever thought of
accusing him in court for mistreatment.

No. In Scientology, going to a judge against another scientologist is
considered a "high crime". One may only refer to the internal justice
system, one believes that it is the only one which can work. I made a
lot of reports "on the lines", our family condition was well known,
and it can be seen both from my folders and from those of my former
husband, but nothing happened, nothing ever changed. My husband was
submitted to cycles of ethics, things went well for some time, but
then they became worse than ever.

What drove you in 2003 to want to go back to Flag, after five

I was feeling bad, worse all the time. My heart had begun to give me
problems, I was very stressed, and unable to fight all that stress
with my own strength alone. Then a lot of my friends and acquaintances
who did the OT levels had died relatively young. Giuliano Cocchetti
had had a stroke just after having attested OT 8, then he committed
suicide. Daniele Pozzebon, OT 8, had died of cancer in a few months,
and his son, an OT 4, had committed suicide just after his father
died. Enza Guzzo, OT8, had died of cancer. Paolo Meini, OT 8, had felt
ill during a session, and had died. Luigi, a restaurant owner in
Brescia and OT 8, had died of a heart attack. I felt, I had a
perception, that the next one would be me, and I didn't want to die.
So I decided to go to Flag. But I had to take care of my cat colony.

How did your love for cats start?

I always loved them. It was through them that I started to taste life
in one of its most authentic aspects. I was ten years old, in Hungary,
when a neighbour killed my cat with a pitchfork because she had eaten
her eggs. Then I was sent to a boarding school, and I forgot that
episode. At 25, in Italy, I came across my first abandoned kitten; it
was something like finding my own cat again. As years went by, it
became a mission. I took in cats of every race and with every kind of
history: abandoned, abused, ill, tortured. There was no cat asylum in
my area, so I made one, committing my resources and energy. I had them
cured, vaccinated, sterilised. 20 of them were also registered with
the town offices, I wanted them to be protected. The cats were my
family, and I gave them all the love a mother feels for her children.
My main worry, before leaving for Flag, was their welfare, how to
settle them. So I organised things as well as possible. I hired
Francesca, a woman who hung around the Mission of Macerata, to take
care of them while I was away. I was supposed to be in America only
for two weeks. I gave her an advance payment of 120 Euros, I left her
with the addresses of the veterinary who followed them, and of all the
people she should call in case of difficulty. I also left her the keys
of my home, where she could go freely and where she could live while I
was away.

Ildiko shows me dozens of pictures of her cats, at the time
they were found, and after she had taken care of them. Some
were paralysed, and could move only on their front legs.

When did you leave for Flag?

Never, actually. I was scheduled to leave around May 20, 2003 and I
had arranged things with my Class IX auditor, Bianca Galbiati and with
the Letter Registrar Franco Carbognin. But just before I was supposed
to leave, Giovanna Zurloni, OT 5, Sea Org Member, recruiter for SH UK
and Director of Validity at SH, who I thought was a friend, told me
that plans had been changed, and that I was no longer leaving for
Florida, but for Saint Hill, in the UK, instead. This upset me very
much, because as an OT 8, I should be getting auditing only at Flag or
on the Ship, but I was in a state of deep prostration, and I trusted
her, so I let her guide me. I got to Saint Hill towards the end of
May, not knowing that Zurloni had written a knowledge report on me
which was very harsh, and which was never sent to me, violating all
the rules. I didn't know anything about that report, I found out
later. That KR made many false accusations against me and said that as
an OT 8 I had to work for Scientology, not wasting my time with cats.
My cats were creating bad PR among my neighbours. At Saint Hill I
started an ethics programme and the "Pab 6".

What's Pab 6?

This is a programme which is assigned to PTS's type C, people with
serious mental problems, hallucinations, people who are very
introverted. They take you around for walks, you do localisation
exercises and so on. If I think that I am an OT 8 and I should be at
cause on MEST, the Phisical Universe, that programme was worrysome and

Then what happened?

When I got there, I handed over my airplane ticket and my papers, as
is usually done. I was supposed to stay for a couple of weeks, but
Rudy (Saint Hill's Exec Recruiter) kept on moving ahead the return
date without telling me why, and despite my protests. Every day, I
used to call home to ask about my cats and Francesca, the woman that I
had entrusted them to, told me everything was going well, no problem.
In the meantime, the Saint Hill recruiters, Luisa, Rudy and Jonathan,
told me that my programme was done, that there was no new one or else
that it had got lost, and they handled me start the EPF, that's the
first step to join the Sea Org staff. I told them repeatedly that I
had no intention of joining the Sea Org, that I didn't feel up to it,
I wasn't well, and that I had my cat colony and several situations in
Italy to take care of. They insisted telling me I could start the EPF
while waiting to go back to Italy and so on, it was just a mere, easy
step just to see "if I was suited". They put so much pressure that I
ended up accepting. The day scheduled for my return, however, they
didn't give me back my ticket, saying that I was on the EPF and I had
to finish it, thus forcing me to continue the programme. Then the MLO
Sharon signed the OK for me to leave. But three days before my
departure, my husband and Giovanna Zurloni - both OT 5 - came to Saint
Hill. In front of the MAA of SH Marco Zurloni, Giovanna's son, and an
Italian staff of the Treasury, they told me that my 26 cats had been
"scattered" since the begining of June, my apartment had been
dismanteled, all my furniture thrown away and my personal belongings
put into boxes that could be sent to me at Saint Hill. The whole time
I had been kept at Saint Hill (one and a half months - I wanted to
leave but I had no money, and didn't know how to do it), I had gone on
calling home, and I kept getting reassurance that everything was in
order. When I heard that my poor kitties, some sick, others paralised,
had been "scattered", with that terrible hot weather (Summer 2003 in
Italy was terribly hot, with temperatures above 40°C from mid May to
the end of August), without food or water, I was overcome by shock and
ran away crying. I then had a collapse, and I was rescued by Marina
Caporrimo of the Mission of Macerata, Sea Org Member at Saint Hill. I
was also visited by an outside physician. I told him I was going back
to Italy the next day, so he didn't prescribe anything for me, but
told me to get a thorough visit when I got home. I was really afraid I
would die, my heart seemed to have gone crazy.

My husband and Giovanna Zurloni returned to Italy at once, and I left
the next day. I was told that I would be authorised to leave only if I
signed a kind of agreement concerning both the divorce and the
promise, once in Italy, to take no legal steps. I was feeling very
bad, both physically and psychologically, and I was very worried about
the disappearance of my kits. A terrible suffering had been inflicted
on me, and I only wanted to run to the place my husband had mentioned,
to find them and get them together again. I would have signed anything
to get away at once. At that point, I didn't have a penny, and even my
mobile phone had run completely out of credit, I was cut off from the

When you got back to Italy, and what did you find?

I got back on July 7, 2003. I met Giovanna Zurloni, who gave me the
keys to my car, but not those to my home, which I had left with
Francesca, the woman who was supposed to take care of my cats. The
keys, for some unexplained reason, were now in the hands of Mrs
Zurloni, who didn't want to give them back to me, claiming that my
hushand had ordered her not to give them to me. I was unable to go
back to my home, which had been assigned to me by the Court after our
separation. In the meantime, my flat had been vacated of all its
furniture. My personal belongings were packed in cardboard boxes and
piled in the garage, and Giovanna Zurloni, who was staying at a
pension near Treia, would open the door of the garage whenever I
needed anything. For a few months, I was the guest of my friend and
animal lover Piera Alvares, who had also organised a hunger strike in
Macerata to get to know what happened to my cats. A few months later,
I found the garage door open. So I went in and put in a cot among the
boxes. Next to the garage, there was a small room with a bathroom and
kitchen, and I camped out there for a week until my husband discovered
me. On the evening of October 26, 2003, around midnight, I had gone
out to get some personal belongings in my car, and when I came back I
found by former husband at the door, "inviting" me in with a
threatenign air, and shouting at me. I was terrified by his
threatening and offensive attitude and by his furious tone of voice.
That night, I spent several hours under the pouring rain, the
neighbours are witnesses to this. I later reported what had happened
to the police.

Did you ever find out what happened to your cats?

No. My husband claimed that, since he intended to refurbish the house
even though it had been regularly assigned to me by the Court, and
seeing that I was away, he had captured the cats two or three at a
time and left them free in the open country, a couple of kilometres
from the house, near an abandoned farmhouse. Together with my animal
lover friends, we combed through the area carefully, and asked the
neighbouring farmers questions. None of them had noticed the presence
of cats either then or during the following weeks, or found any dead
animals. My cats were domestic, they could never survive without food
or water. Some were half paralysed, and could not go far away. One had
recently been operated, his legs were bound by steel clamps, and he
still needed care and antibiotics. The area where my husband claimed
that he had left them is not very far, and at least a few of them - no
less than 26 disappeared - would have come back home. But not even one
ever did, and in all our expeditions, we never found a single animal,
dead or alive. My friend and animal lover Piera Alvares made a hunger
strike, and the local press wrote about it several times, but nobody
came forward to give any information or say they had seen anything. My
cats literally vanished into thin air, and I am certain they died. I
really cannot believe that my husband "left" them where he says he
did. Some trace would have been found, precisely because those little
animals were not self sufficient. I don't know whether my husband
acted on his own, but I doubt it. I am sure he had outside help, it's
not easy to catch 26 cats. I made a regular denunciation against him
and against the woman I had paid and hired to take care of my animals
and who - when I used to call from England - would tell me that
everything was alright, even though she knew my cats had been taken

What were the reactions of your scientologist friends, or of
the church?

Giovanna Zurloni threatened me over the phone, with my friend Piera
present and listening, saying she would have me kicked out of the
church - thus doing away with my spiritual freedom - if I made any
move with the law or the press.

Other followers of the Macerata Mission of Scientology wrote knowledge
reports, including Rolando Vissani BCO MC MSN, and Giorgio Rapanelli,
a student of the Macerata Mission. As the founder of the local chapter
of the Green party, Giorgio asked the animal lovers not to mention the
involvement of my scientologist husband and of other staffers of
Scientology, just not to cause bad PR to che church. I myself made
many reports uplines, even to the Chief of International Justice, to
RTC/Los Angeles, to the MAA of Saint Hill and Clearwater, to Mario
Sala, C.O. Italy, but I never got any answer.

Rather, stories started to go around in the town I was living in, that
the cats had been eliminated because they were sick, and that I had
gone to England to cure myself of a sickness I had got from them. This
is false. Actually, I was at Scientology at Saint Hill, sent there by
Giovanna Zurloni and kept there against my will; my cats were
perfectly healthy, cured and cared for with love.

Why do you think they sent you to Saint Hill instead of to
Flag as had been agreed on, why you were you kept there even
though you had no programme ready, and above all, why did they
get rid of your cats?

About this, I have no certainties, just guesses. I certainly felt
deeply betrayed by Giovanna Zurloni, an OT 5 and Sea Org Member
(therefore very authoritative) whom I thought of as a friend, somebody
interested in my welfare and in my psycho-physical health. The only
thing I can think is that I and my cats had become a burden, something
to get rid of quickly. I have a divorce procedure underway, I live in
a flat which belongs to my husband, but which was assigned to me
during the separation proceedings by the Court. I would never have
given up my house and my animals, to whom I had entirely given myself
during the last years. Maybe somebody thought that if they took my
cats away, there wouldn't be anything left tying me to these places. I
am Hungarian, I am an OT 8 with all that this means in terms of public
relations for the church. I imagine that the Sea Org would have found
it useful to have a staff member who was an OT 8, able to communicate
with all those Hungarians who are coming along the lines in the last
few years. Not many people speak Hungarian.

At Saint Hill, I was put under a lot of pressure to join the Sea Org
and, although not being at all convinced, I had accepted to start the
EPF as I waited for the day I would return to Italy. My husband, who
is also an OT 5, would have found it good to have a wife who was far
away, engaged in "saving the planet", and not interested in following
up the divorce. The only real problem were my cats, and the decision
was taken to disperse them. Maybe they underestimated my
determination. As I said, I have always been a peaceful woman, who
suffered silently for so many years. Maybe they thought I would just
go on taking the blows. But you get to a point in life where you have
to react, and I reacted.

And what are your relations with the Church of Scientology
now? Did your old scientologist friends help you? Did you give
you their solidarity?

In September 2005 I asked for total refund of what I had spent to do
the whole Bridge up to OT 8, about 250.000 dollars. One can hardly say
that I received the benefits promised and guaranteed by the literature
of Scientology. The Church of Milan answered that I had not received
any service from that association, and that I had never paid out any

My scientologist friends simply vanished, as if I had never existed.
They put me aside like an old shoe. When my status was useful to bring
people "on board", I was sought out, served and revered. Now I am
simply a bother. On the other hand, I found great solidarity from a
lot of people I didn't know at all, from my animal lover friends and
from people who never heard of Scientology. I also had a lot of
solidarity from former scientologists, some people even left
Scientology after getting to know what happened to me.

How are you now?

Not well. I suffer physically, I have heart problems after the stress
of all these years. I also suffer psychologically, I have been
diagnosed for neurosis and I am being taken care of by a psychologist
and a psychiatrist. It's sad to find myself where I started out -
indeed worse - after 20 years of dedicating myself body and soul to
Scientology, which I joined in the hope of solving my problems, and
because of my refusal to use conventional therapies. With two failed
marriages behind me and waiting for a divorce.

I say goodbye to Ildiko with my heart full of sadness. I think
of all those who, like her, have been the victims of a great
dream. The ten cats of her new colony crowd around her and
press against her legs. They at least will never betray her.


Rev. Norle Enturbulata

Jun 17, 2006, 6:29:21 AM6/17/06
Well done! And bravely so, though it would seem that the Scientology cult
has less and less power to instill fear in people who need to tell the truth
about this dangerous, destructive group.

"Martini" <> wrote in message


Jun 17, 2006, 9:33:59 AM6/17/06
Martini wrote:

Another truly satisfied Scientology customer! This tragic story is the
nexus of Scientology predation at its worst. Heinous. Unbelievably
horrible. That poor, trusting woman!

Chaplain, ARSCC

"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"

Johnny Mike

Jun 17, 2006, 9:52:41 AM6/17/06

"Martini" <> wrote in message

This paragraphs is one of the best I've ever read about why people buy into

roger gonnet

Jun 17, 2006, 9:52:58 AM6/17/06
Oh Martini, That's great.

A remarkable text.

Now here it is in french as well; you can add it to your collection of excellent
witnessings from victims of scientology.


L'histoire déconcertante d'Ilkido, OT VIII et la disparition mystérieuse de ses
26 chats
Interview d'avril 2006.

A la mi-mars, un lecteur du site me signala une lettre curieuse publiée par le

La missive disait:


Cher Directeur,

Le scientologue est convaincu qu'en atteignant un niveau nommé "OT" 8, il
obtiendrait les facultés de ces hindous qui réussissent à voyager dans l'espace
sans le corps et qui accomplissent des actes magiques en annulant les lois
physiques. Il ne subirait plus les futures réincarnations en homme ou en animal
car il deviendrait immortel et sa vie ne serait plus que bonheur et succès.
Voilà ce que promet la scientologie.

Malheureusement quand, il y a dix ans je suis tombée dans le piège de ce
monsieur , pour atteindre ce niveau on devait faire un "don" quel que soit son
revenu, d'au moins 500 millions de lires. Pour faire comme mon mari, lui aussi
OT je versai, en plus de cette somme 8 000 dollars.!

Une fois le niveau de "OT" 8 atteint, le résultat a été: un divorce, mal au
coeur, mal à la tête et chaque nuit des rêves terribles (entre autre
l'agression d'un monstre reptilien qui me déprimera toute la journée)..

Par chance, je n'ai pas abjuré la foi catholique et j'ai réussi à penser avec ma
tête. Aujourd'hui je me fais aider par un bon psychiatre pour effacer le
résultat des violences psychologiques et physiques, des interventions dans ma
vie privée et de toutes les duperies commises par le staff de la Scientologie.
Et j'attends encore d'être remboursée.

Ildiko Bajnoczi - Appignano Macerata)

(L'AVVENIRE, le 15 mars 2006)

C'est ainsi que, pour moi, a commencé ma recherche d' Ildiko Trouver cette belle
dame blonde d'origines hongroises n'a pas été difficile. Appignano est un petit
bourg médiéval délicieux étendu sur les collines de l'arrière-pays où tout le
monde connaît tout le monde et notamment la dame aux chats. Jusqu'en 2003, en
effet, cette femme prenait soin d'une colonie féline.

Me voici enfin, en face d' Ildiko Bajnoczi, pour cette longue interview.

Ildiko, veux-tu me raconter brièvement comment tu as connu la Scientologie ?

Je suis arrivée en Italie en 1970. Mon enfance en Hongrie avait été difficile,
j'avais perdu ma mère quand j'étais encore fillette. J'avais toujours été une
personne fragile et dépourvue d'assurance. En 1982 je vis par hasard une
émission télévisée présentée par Pier Paderni Il parlait de l "anatomie de
l'esprit humain" et de la Scientologie. Je n'avais aucune assurance dans la vie
mais j'étais très curieuse. Il y avait des choses que je pensais ne jamais
pouvoir résoudre, je souffrais d'attaques de panique mais je ne voulais pas
prendre de médicament, j'étais décidée à rechercher d'autres possibilités. Cette
émission excita ma curiosité et me fascina. Je me suis souvenue qu'un jour, en
me promenant dans le centre de Milan j'avais été approchée par des
scientologues. Sur le moment j'étais partie, mais je m'étais promis de revenir.
Et c'est ce que j'ai fait..

J'ai commençai mon parcours avec quatre heures d'audit de "Book One" [*] et je
demandai s'il y n'avait pas quelque chose de plus fort. Ils me parlèrent d'audit
professionnel, j'achetai ainsi deux intensives que j'utilisai pour un procédé
nommé "Réparation" de la vie. J'étais très heureuse car il me semblait que
l'auditeur était capable de lire dans mon esprit, je ressentis une promesse de
bonheur, une manière de me libérer de ma souffrance et de suivre d'autres

Je ne savais pas qu'un "Pont" existait. Quand ils me montrèrent la « Charte »"
des niveaux et que je vis que j'étais seulement au début de ce long chemin je
ressentis une forte détermination pour arriver au sommet. J'avais une grande
confiance. J'achetai ainsi toute l'audition jusqu'à Clear.

Arrivée à cet état je ressentis beaucoup de contentement et d'enthousiasme. Je
me portais bien, j'étais remplie d'une forte énergie. Je n'avais pas encore
beaucoup d'intérêt pour les niveaux OT. Mais très vite cette exaltation commença
à faiblir. A ce moment-là les responsables de la scientologie sont excellents,
ils te parlent, te manipulent, ils te disent que tu es en danger, ils créent le

[*] Elle est aussi nommée Dianetique basé seulement sur le livre premier des
années 50
[* *] Douze heures et demi d'audit s'appellent intensives. Deux intensives
équivalent à 25 heures
[* * *] C'est ainsi que sont nommés les divers processus: Pont vers la Liberté
Totale ou aussi la Charte des niveaux de progression, etc.
[* * * *] Clair est la première étape et le pré-requis pour accéder aux cours
avancés et confidentiels que sont les niveauw OT.

Est-ce que tu n'as pas eu ensuite beaucoup d'hésitations à t'engager sur le

Non. Ils insistent beaucoup sur l'envie de bien se porter, de devenir meilleur,
de voir la vie de manière plus légère, de flotter sur sa surface sans descendre
jamais dans les "mécaniques" pour lutter, et c'est très attirant.. J'étais
curieuse évidemment de me connaître même en n'étant pas très sûre de moi je
voulais découvrir le pourquoi de plein de choses, c'est pour cela qu'il était
facile de me convaincre. Il y avait aussi l'envie d'être au-dessus de la masse,
l'envie d'être meilleure, différente, plus puissante que les autres. Ils
travaillent sur l'ego aussi, nous désirons tous ces choses.

C'est comme si un petit diable te parlait, tu lui vends ton âme et tu auras
tout, pouvoir, beauté, richesse. On ne te dit jamais les choses de façon
explicite mais on arrive à te convaincre que tu dois tout faire pour y arriver
et qu'une fois que tu y seras arrivée tu auras tout.

Quelles ont été tes expériences des niveaux OT ?

Avant les niveaux j'étais convaincue que je serais devenue omnipotente une
espèce de père éternel.. C'est ainsi que sont présentés les niveaux OT par les
magazines et la littérature de la mythologie de la Scientologie. . Celui qui
avait atteint ce niveau, montrait une sûreté et un pouvoir incroyable sur la
vie. Je commençai ce parcours pleine d'enthousiasme et d'espoir. Puis les ennuis
commencèrent.. Il m'arrivait les choses les plus étranges. Je trouvai les pneus
de la voiture coupés, je recevais des menaces par téléphone.. je ne savais pas
qui c'était, qui pouvait bien m'en vouloir à ce point. "Mais comme j'allais
atteindre le niveau OT 3 je me demandais pourquoi de telles choses m'arrivaient.
Pourquoi ces méchancetés.- Mais je ne voulais toujours pas voir.. Je justifiais
et je rationalisais en me disant que j'étais face à du « bank » [*]." Que
j'étais en train de gagner, et que ce « bank » s'opposait à ma force. Je
considérais ces événements comme une confirmation que tout fonctionnait, c'était
une rébellion du « bank » contre ma puissance. Puis tout de suite après avoir
atteint OT 5 je tombai malade. Je restai deux semaines au lit avec 40 de
fièvre. Je continuais à survoler , je ne voulais pas m'arrêter à réfléchir.
J'étais très perplexe, j'aurais dû être plus forte et j'étais plus faible. Je
rationalisais en pensant que maintenant que je m'étais libérée de beaucoup de
choses j'étais plus découverte et donc aussi plus fragile. Je rationalisais,
j'ai rationalisé jusqu'au bout.

Après avoir atteint OT 8 - j'ai été parmi les premiers scientologues à atteindre
ce niveau en 1989 - je suis tombée malade. Je n'arrivais pas à me diriger,
j'étais déconcertée, je me disais « Mais comment se fait-il qu'ayant réussi
hier, je ne puisse pas me tenir debout aujourd'hui ? » Je me décourageais mais j'ai
dû me forcer pour donner l'impression que j'étais forte et ainsi montrer mon

[*] quelque chose comme un inconscient collectif.

Est ce que tu as parlé à quelqu'un de tes problèmes?

Non. J'en parlais évidemment avec mes auditeurs et C/S [superviseurs du travail
des auditeurs]. Mon histoire est inscrite dans mes folders, mes dossiers d'audition
[*], mais je n'en ai jamais parlé avec les autres scientologues. À l'extérieur
je devais donner une image gaie et gagnante, les OT ne peuvent pas se montrer en
difficulté. Tu apprends à montrer une figure sociale dans laquelle tout va bien,
à te montrer gagnante sur toute la ligne.

Après OT 3 et OT5 j'ai cependant continué à avoir des accès d'anxiété. Ils
auraient dû disparaître une fois atteint le niveau « clair » une fois résolus
les problèmes de la « première dynamique », le soi individuel. Mais il n'en fut
pas ainsi. Je me disais que cela me poussait à continuer. Je me disais,
maintenant je vais sur OT6, sur OT7 avec audition en « solo » (sans auditeur)."
J'ai toujours travaillé honnêtement sur les niveaux, sur OT 7 j'allais en séance
deux ou trois fois par jour, c'était dans mon intérêt de bien faire. Je voulais
surtout me porter bien mais l'anxiété et les malaises continuaient.

Entre-temps j'avais reçu des révisions sur OT 3 et OT 5, j'avais aussi fait deux
Listes » [* *] et l'OT Debug [* * *] sur le Navire Freewinds. Puis, après
avoir atteint OT 8 on me dit "Ah, OT 7 n'a pas été bien fait, nous devons le
refaire." Je revins ainsi une deuxième fois sur OT 7. Ils re vérifièrent aussi
l'état de clair mais tout était en place..

[*] cartons et documents d'audit et éthique
[* *] Procédés pour augmenter les possibilités de "être, "faire" et "avoir" et
pour pouvoir s'extérioriser comme un esprit, c'est-à-dire pour pouvoir "se
répandre à l'extérieur du corps »
[* * *] Procédé pour débrouiller les difficultés des cas OT

Est-ce qu'à ce moment là tu as résolu tes problèmes ?

Non, je continuais à souffrir d'anxiété et je ne pouvais certainement pas dire
que je me portais bien. Puis en 1996 "le Golden Age of Technology" sortit [*] et
ils nous dirent que tous ceux qui avaient fait OT 7 et OT 8 devaient refaire le
premier, parce qu'ils avaient constaté que personne ne l'avait bien fait. Après
des années et des années il fallait tout refaire et à notre charge.. Ainsi 9 ans
après avoir atteint OT 8 je suis revenue pour la troisième fois sur OT 7. Entre
temps je continuais à justifier en me disant que peut-être dans un premier temps
quelque chose leur avait échappé et qu'une partie n'avait pas été bien faite et
ils ne s'en étaient pas aperçu même si tous les six mois j'étais régulièrement
allée au Flag faire contrôler mon travail comme cela était prescrit, et malgré
toutes les révisions. J'étais convaincue que cette troisième fois serait la
bonne et que tout irait bien, j'avais confiance.

Je restai 6 mois au Flag, mais après avoir fait 12 intensives, à 7.000 dollars
pièce, -- 14 millions d'anciennes lires, je découvris que j'étais seulement à la
moitié du programme d'audit préparé par les superviseurs. Entre les procédés et
le séjour j'avais maintenant dépensé presque 100.000 dollars mais le chemin pour
parvenir à l'audit en solo était encore très long.. Nous étions en 1988 et j'avais
épuisé toutes mes ressources. J'étais décidée à abandonner après avoir dépensé
tout l'argent, mes espoirs et mon énergie. C'était, pour moi un énorme échec.

Entre temps j'avais aussi complété d'autres cours et services comme le « Faux
purpose Rundown » [procédé des fausses nouvelles), l'OT debug, deux « Listes ».
Les Ls sont un procédé très puissant et cher, pourquoi me les avaient ils
prescrits s'il y avait quelque chose qui n'allait pas? J'avais fait toutes les
révisions, puis je commençai aussi le "Key to Life" [clé pour la vie] mais je
me bloquais et je dus abandonner. Quelque chose entra en restimulation, je
restais mauvaise, j'aurais voulu sauter du navire et m'enfuir à la nage. Tout
allait mal, de mal en pis. Mais je résistais. Puis ils me dirent "nous allons
tout résoudre en refaisant OT 7.." Je me dis que le problème était certainement
là , je me remis en selle, je suivis une audition chaque jour et je pensais
ainsi me renforcer et parvenir à faire tout ce que je voulais dans ma vie.."
Mais je n'y suis pas arrivée. J'ai épuisé toutes mes ressources et j'ai dû

Cependant je me sentais assez tranquille. Je communiquais encore avec le C/S,
j'écrivais au DofP [Directeur des Procédés], j'écrivis au Senior C/S
International et lui il me répondit qu'il aurait fait revoir tous mes folders et
à mon retour à Flag j'aurais trouvé tout en ordre et un nouveau programme sur
lequel travailler.. Il me dit de continuer à suivre d'autres cours et de revenir
à Flag quand je ne serais plus malade. Je continuai ainsi à fréquenter le
Mission de Macerata, où j'ai refait pour la troisième fois PTS/SP [* *], et
autres cours dont je ne me souviens pas..

[*] Âge d'or de la Technologie - qui aurait théoriquement dû résoudre tous les
problèmes même ceux relevés dans l'application du "tech"
[* *] un cours d'étude sur "Source potentielle d'ennuis" et "Personne

Avant de traiter la dernière partie de ton expérience en Scientologie et l'histoire
incroyable de la disparition de ta colonie de chats, est-ce que tu veux bien me
parler de ton mariage ?

J'ai été mariée deux fois. . Mon premier mari fit quelque heure d'audit de Book
One, mais il décida de ne pas continuer. Il acheta pour une trentaine de
millions de lires des services de WISE, mais ils l'envoyèrent "hors réalité" et
à la fin il lâcha tout.

Après être devenue OT 8 je fis connaissance de celui qui allait devenir mon
second mari.. Nous nous étions connus quand il faisait le sauna mais il avait
abandonné -- il s'était enfui du "Purif." Ils me demandèrent d'aller « le
récupérer » et je le fis. Je ne sais pas précisément ce que je lui ai dit mais
je réussis à le convaincre de revenir et tout de suite il acheta tout, le
paquet Clear et aussi le paquet OT. Nous nous voyions à l'org de Milan, où
j'étudiais, et je m'attachais à lui de plus en plus. Je divorçai de mon premier
mari et nous nous mariâmes peu après.

J'étais très amoureuse mais notre mariage ne fonctionna pas ; il y avait
beaucoup de problèmes et de tensions mais je tenais bon Je me disais "tu
verras qu'en avançant sur le Pont les choses s'amélioreront, il changera, il
changera " mais il n'a jamais changé, il est arrivé à l'OT 5 et il n'a pas
changé, il est allé de mal en pis.. J'ai aussi résisté parce que j'espérais que
les niveaux OT pouvaient l'aider dans ce genre de conflits. J'ai aussi fait le
procédé « Marriage Assist » [assistance au mariage] et il ne voulait pas le
faire, mais je lui ai dit que nous ne pouvions pas vivre avec toujours cette
chose étrange entre nous. Après le Marriage Assist il ne m'a plus parlé. Il
devait s'occuper d'arranger les choses entre nous mais il arrêta de me parler.
Que nous restions ensemble ou que nous nous séparions, nous devions trouver une
solution entre nous, mais il n'en a rien été. A cause de mon stress excessif, j'ai
dû me faire assister par un infirmier professionnel qui était scientologue... J'ai
été malgré tout très aimée par mon mari qui était une personne paisible qui
avait supporté beaucoup de choses lui aussi. Un jour arrive la goutte qui fait
déborder le vase alors tu ne supportes plus rien et tu réagis. J'ai alors changé
car si un nouveau coup m'arrivait alors, il aurait été fatal. Actuellement nous
sommes en train de régler les problèmes de divorce et il fait preuve de bonne
volonté et de collaboration.

Ildiko me montre un gros carton d'examens cliniques et de tracés
d'électrocardiogrammes montrant sans équivoque que son état de santé, bien
quelle ne soit âgée que de 52 ans n'est pas des meilleurs. Je lui demande s'il
ne lui est jamais venu à l'esprit de consulter un avocat pour faire valoir ses
droits avant la séparation définitive d'avec son mari.

Non. En Scientologie s'adresser à la justice ordinaire contre un autre
scientologo est considéré comme un « haut crime » Il faut s'adresser au système
de justice interne le seul apte à fonctionner. J'ai fait de nombreux rapports
"sur les lignes", au sujet de notre situation familiale qui était notée sur les
« folders » de moi-même et de mon mari mais il n'en est rien résulté. Les
problèmes entre nous ont continué à empirer..

Qu'est-ce qui t'a poussée en 2003 à vouloir revenir au Flag, après cinq ans ?

J'allais mal, j'allais de mal en pis. Le coeur avait commencé à me causer des
problèmes problèmes, j'étais très stressée et je ne réussissais pas à combattre
tout ce stress avec mes seules forces. Plusieurs de mes amis et connaissances
qui avaient suivi les cours pour les niveaux OT étaient mort relativement
jeunes.. Julien Cocchetti avait eu un ictus à peine diagnostiqué OT 8, puis il
s'était suicidé. Daniele Pozzebon, OT 8 était mort d'une tumeur en quelques
mois, et après sa mort son fils OT 4 s'est suicidé.. Enza Guzzo, OT8 était mort
à cause d'une tumeur. Paolo Meini, OT8 s'était trouvé mal en séance, et il était
mort. Luigi, un réparateur de Brescia aussi il OT8 était mort à la suite d'un
infarctus. J'avais le sentiment que je serais la prochaine. et je ne voulais pas
mourir. J'ai donc décidé d'aller au Flag mais il fallait que je pense à mes

Comment est né ton amour est né pour les chats?

Je les ai toujours aimés et à travers eux j'ai appris à savourer la vie dans un
de ses aspects plus vrais et naturels. J'avais dix ans quand, en Hongrie, une
voisine tua mon chat avec une fourche parce qu'il lui avait mangée des oeufs.
Puis je fus envoyée au collège et j'oubliai cet épisode. À 25 ans, en Italie, je
rencontrai le premier minet abandonné; ce fut un peu comme si je retrouvais le
mien.. Au fil des années, cet amour est devenu une mission. J'ai recueilli des
minets de toutes races avec chacun une histoire: abandonnés, rudoyés, malades,
torturés. Ici dans le coin il n'existe pas de refuge pour chats et j'en ai donc
créé un en utilisant mes biens et mon énergie. Je les ai faits soigner,
vacciner, stériliser. 20 d'eux étaient enregistrés à la mairie, je voulais qu'ils
soient protégés.. Les chats étaient ma famille, je leur donnais un amour
comparable à celui d'une mère pour ses enfants. Ma grande préoccupation, avant
de partir pour Flag, c'était leur bien-être, leur garde. Je m'organisai ainsi
au mieux. J'embauchai Francesca, une femme qui gravitait autour de la Mission
Macerata pour qu'elle prenne soin d'eux durant mon absence. Je devais rester en
Amérique seulement deux semaines. . Je lui ai versé 120 euros d'avance et lui ai
laissé les dossiers du vétérinaire qui les suit et les noms de toutes les
personnes auxquelles elle pourrait s'adresser en cas de besoin. Je lui ai laissé
aussi les clés de ma maison à laquelle elle pouvait accéder librement et même y
habiter pendant mon absence.

Ildiko me montre des dizaines de photographies de ses chats, au moment de leur
adoption et après ses soins. Quelques-uns étaient paralysés et ils ne pouvaient
se déplacer qu'avec les pattes de devant.

(a suivre)

"Martini" <> a écrit dans le message de news:

Larry T.

Jun 17, 2006, 3:59:15 PM6/17/06
"Martini" <> wrote in message

That is a shame, but a lot of people that go up that high in the OT levels
also complain of strange things happening to them that they don't fully

So what happens when they run out of auditing and training to deliver to a
person and the person still has problems?

Not worth it.


Jens Tingleff

Jun 18, 2006, 6:30:53 AM6/18/06
Hash: SHA1

Martini wrote:

Outstanding work! Thanks a lot for taking the time to talk to Ildiko and to
write it up.

That's an impressive list of dead OT8s she's got there...

Best Regards


- --
Key ID 0x09723C12,
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mdk Linux / odds and ends +44 1223 211 585
"Now it can truly be said that I have a bat in my belfry" Joker 'Batman'
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)


Jens Tingleff

Jun 18, 2006, 6:32:58 AM6/18/06
Martini wrote:

> Webbed at
> Please repost the story in your Websites.
> Martini
> Allarme Scientology
> =================


> What drove you in 2003 to want to go back to Flag, after five
> years?
> I was feeling bad, worse all the time. My heart had begun to give me
> problems, I was very stressed, and unable to fight all that stress
> with my own strength alone. Then a lot of my friends and acquaintances
> who did the OT levels had died relatively young. Giuliano Cocchetti
> had had a stroke just after having attested OT 8, then he committed
> suicide. Daniele Pozzebon, OT 8, had died of cancer in a few months,
> and his son, an OT 4, had committed suicide just after his father
> died. Enza Guzzo, OT8, had died of cancer. Paolo Meini, OT 8, had felt
> ill during a session, and had died. Luigi, a restaurant owner in
> Brescia and OT 8, had died of a heart attack. I felt, I had a
> perception, that the next one would be me, and I didn't want to die.
> So I decided to go to Flag. But I had to take care of my cat colony.


> I say goodbye to Ildiko with my heart full of sadness. I think
> of all those who, like her, have been the victims of a great
> dream. The ten cats of her new colony crowd around her and
> press against her legs. They at least will never betray her.
> Martini

Wow, that's a lot of dead OT8s. Shouldn't these things come with health

Best Regards


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