Uhm... is this all REAL?

51 views
Skip to first unread message

bullDOG

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 4:09:46 AM4/27/02
to
Hello. At this point, I'd like to remain anonymous, but am considering
writing a screenplay/documentary about Scientology. It is actually kind of
humorous. Since I have many friends in the independent film circuit, a few
of whom discussed this idea with me tonight, I've decided this could be
possible, and might actually be an enjoyable (or disturbing?), humorous and
bizarre film for the un-initiated. We will most likely begin working on
this very soon, but wanted to speak to some members of the community for
ideas first. We're open to input from Scientology members as well as
critics - basically, we're just curious if a film like this could generate
enough interest to invest our time/money into making it.

Anyway, here's some ideas we came up with for our possible film project
(thought I'd throw em up on here and get some feedback):

* Start with a short biography of L Ron Hubbard, his history with the FBI,
his paranoia about communists, the shattered relationship with his wife (who
declared him helplessly insane), his history as a pulp-fiction author, his
trip to Cuba, etc, etc (Im sure everyone here is familiar with his history,
which I wasn't until this afternoon). What a great way to start a film.
You couldn't ask for better material from a team of stand-up comedians.

* Interviews with current Scientologists. Objectivity requires it. Plus,
we might find some interesting folks to talk with. We'd really like to take
an open stance on this one... no condascending questions, just free
chit-chat with the members. Are Sea Org members really only paid $45/week?
We'd put that in there. We'll also be trying to find some "volunteers" or
whatever they call them - the volunteer doctor people who run around
assisting people with mental and physical illness.

* Interviews with ex-members of the cult. We'd like to find some people who
might be interested in participating in this documentary. We would probably
include critics in this section - is it possible to communicate with people
like Bob Minton and the founder of xenu.net? We'd also be putting some info
about this newsgroup, its existence and role possibly.

* We thought it might be great to include the story of Xenu in the film.
But it seems so absurd, we're not sure if people would buy it (not sure if I
really buy it yet... I mean, do they really believe that?). If the audience
didn't accept the idea, it'd make the film look silly, like we were just
trying to call Scientologists a bunch of "Heavens Gate"-type wackos, which
is not our goal.

* I still don't really believe that Tom Cruise and John Travolta are really
members of CoS. But we'll put that in there, too. It'd be great from a
film-making perspective. Show how film-makers, actors, directors, basically
Hollywood was involved in the whole evolution of Scientology.

* Lastly... the effects of Scientology on Clearwater, Florida. This would
be beautiful. And it would speak for itself, I think.

* We also considered putting footage of the documentary-making process in
the film itself. This might be kinda interesting.

Anyway... just thought I'd post this and see if I could get any feedback
from the community. So shout out at us, and let us know what you think -
IT'S IN THE NAME OF INDEPENDENT FILM!! heh heh heh.


Message has been deleted

Tilman Hausherr

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 4:51:34 AM4/27/02
to
On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:18:27 +0200, Trilateral Union
<Trilater...@soundwaves.merseine.nu> wrote in
<linkcukd1s8jp0l76...@Trilateral.Union>:

>You are not anonymous at all. Your NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.231.113.17, can
>be traced directly to your real name and address, and you can rest

Indeed. We know that he is probably around Middletown, NJ.

http://visualroute.visualware.com/

--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP5.55] Entheta * Enturbulation * Entertainment
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.xenu.de

Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.

Find broken links on your web site: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html
The Xenu bookstore: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/bookstore.html

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Magoo

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 5:06:15 AM4/27/02
to
Hi :)
Just read your ideas. I was in Scientology for 30 years (believe it or not!)
and just escaped in July of 2000....thank goodness, and thank OSA!!!
Anyways...here's my two cents, for whatever it's worth:

"bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:e1ty8.77651$HH5....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...


> Hello. At this point, I'd like to remain anonymous,

You'll obviously have to change that...if you mean business.

but am considering
> writing a screenplay/documentary about Scientology.

Step # 1: get an Attorney who knows this cult. They ~love~ to sue
people....and you'll need good guidance or you'll spend LOTS of time in
court, and tons of money.

It is actually kind of
> humorous. Since I have many friends in the independent film circuit, a
few
> of whom discussed this idea with me tonight, I've decided this could be
> possible, and might actually be an enjoyable (or disturbing?), humorous
and
> bizarre film for the un-initiated. We will most likely begin working on
> this very soon, but wanted to speak to some members of the community for
> ideas first.

You're right, there's certainly TONS of material here. The only reason more
people do not, is again due to their endless mania for sueing people.

We're open to input from Scientology members as well as
> critics - basically, we're just curious if a film like this could generate
> enough interest to invest our time/money into making it.

Doubtful that Scientologist will talk to you...as IF you're going to have
the "other side"...they rarely want to be a part of that.


>
> Anyway, here's some ideas we came up with for our possible film project
> (thought I'd throw em up on here and get some feedback):
>
> * Start with a short biography of L Ron Hubbard, his history with the FBI,
> his paranoia about communists, the shattered relationship with his wife
(who
> declared him helplessly insane), his history as a pulp-fiction author, his
> trip to Cuba, etc, etc (Im sure everyone here is familiar with his
history,
> which I wasn't until this afternoon). What a great way to start a film.
> You couldn't ask for better material from a team of stand-up comedians.

True.


>
> * Interviews with current Scientologists.

Don't hold you breath.....they're super paranoid of most media.

Objectivity requires it. Plus,
> we might find some interesting folks to talk with.

There are many interesting folk. Whether they will speak...ask um.
You'll know soon enough.

We'd really like to take
> an open stance on this one... no condascending questions, just free
> chit-chat with the members. Are Sea Org members really only paid

$45/week? Yes.


> We'd put that in there. We'll also be trying to find some "volunteers"

I was a volunteer on and off for 20 years. They also have what they call
"volunteer Ministers" (which I was also) who offer to go help people in
times of need.

or
> whatever they call them - the volunteer doctor people who run around
> assisting people with mental and physical illness.

"Volunteer Ministers". You must get your lingo straight if you hope to chat
with them :)


>
> * Interviews with ex-members of the cult. We'd like to find some people
who
> might be interested in participating in this documentary. We would
probably
> include critics in this section - is it possible to communicate with
people
> like Bob Minton and the founder of xenu.net?

Send them e-mails and ask.

We'd also be putting some info
> about this newsgroup, its existence and role possibly.

A good idea.


>
> * We thought it might be great to include the story of Xenu in the film.

Now you ~~are~~ talking legal, and big time legal. This is their secret
doctrines, and although most of the world finds it humourous to the point of
ridiculous.....they do not. It's also BIG $$$ for them, so they'll fight you
all the way, unless you change the name and possibly some of the content.
Again, check with your attorney on this one for sure.

> But it seems so absurd, we're not sure if people would buy it (not sure if
I
> really buy it yet... I mean, do they really believe that?). If the
audience
> didn't accept the idea, it'd make the film look silly, like we were just
> trying to call Scientologists a bunch of "Heavens Gate"-type wackos, which
> is not our goal.

Well...it's all in the presentation. But many people (due to the Internet)
know about this "secret" Info.


>
> * I still don't really believe that Tom Cruise and John Travolta are
really
> members of CoS.

They most certainly are. I helped train JT in the 70's back when he just got
"Welcome Back Codder".

But we'll put that in there, too.

Again...check with your attorney. Are you starting to get the picture?

It'd be great from a
> film-making perspective. Show how film-makers, actors, directors,
basically
> Hollywood was involved in the whole evolution of Scientology.

Some of Hollywood. They like to hype it much more than is, but yes....they
are interested in Artists and Celebreties.


>
> * Lastly... the effects of Scientology on Clearwater, Florida. This would
> be beautiful. And it would speak for itself, I think.

Most probably...but again, it depends on the presentation. There IS a lot of
material from there.


>
> * We also considered putting footage of the documentary-making process in
> the film itself. This might be kinda interesting.

Ya ya


>
> Anyway... just thought I'd post this and see if I could get any feedback
> from the community. So shout out at us, and let us know what you think -
> IT'S IN THE NAME OF INDEPENDENT FILM!! heh heh heh.

Let me know when you have an attorney.....then give me a shout.

If you'd like to check out my story, please go to
http://www.xenu.net
scroll to "Personal Stories"
Scroll to "Tory's Story"
or
http://www.lisatrust.net
check out Videos: Magoo: Dancing in Boston
OT 7's Speaking Freely, etc.

You can always e-mail me at mag...@att.net

Good luck!

Best,

Tory/Magoo~dancing in the moonlight~!
In for 30 years
Out for One and a Half years
SP 6 ^with Cumulative Cluster
Free at last!~~~~
>
>


Message has been deleted

Magoo

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 5:15:22 AM4/27/02
to
He (she/it) may very well be a troll.....

but I still say it doesn't hurt to point out some things.
What if it/he/she isn't a troll? They most assuredly should be aware of the
legal situation,,,,just incase they are for real.

Tory/Magoo!
"Shark" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:3cca6ac0...@nntp.lightlink.com...


> "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi :)
> >Just read your ideas. I was in Scientology for 30 years (believe it or
not!)
> >and just escaped in July of 2000....thank goodness, and thank OSA!!!
> >Anyways...here's my two cents, for whatever it's worth:
>

> I think this guy is a troll. Making a film about Scientology...
> um.... yeah.


Kymus

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 5:43:23 AM4/27/02
to
>From: "bullDOG" nowa...@nospam.com

>Hello. At this point, I'd like to remain anonymous, but am considering
>writing a screenplay/documentary about Scientology.

After reading the lengthy goals you have for the films content, I would like to
point out that the film you have in mind has already been done, and with a
Scientologist composing the soundtrack. The soundtrack is by Phil Glass and
the name of the movie (I can't really spell it) sounds something like Quiddich
or Kwazquahtka or something. I know the first attempt there is from the Harry
Potter books, so it can't be right. The second is closer. It's an american
indian word meaning "the world is out of balance".

Someone in this newsgroup must know the film I mean.


// The strong man eventually meets the stronger man. Pursuit of brute force
must end in frustration - O Sensei //

bullDOG

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 6:31:05 AM4/27/02
to
Wow... a LOT of feedback. I'm not too worried about someone discovering a
DHCP IP. No ISP gives out account data and DHCP providers rarely track
allocations anyway. I'm not in the Seattle area, although I think it's
beautiful up there. Obviously, if we do this, we're not anonymous for too
long anyway.

I'm also not a troll. This post was for real. I read the post about
someone having already done a documentary and that's kind of a bummer, but I
figured as much. It probably won't stop us though. We want to make a
humorous, quirky, upbeat kind of film that will just make people laugh,
maybe, or even elicit a response like the one I saw with "American Pimp" at
Sundance. That sort of feeling you get when you see a car wreck, one half
of you is morbidly fascinated and curious, the other half in horror and
disgust at your own fascination. Mix a little humour in there and you're
talking about a serious chance of success.

Lawyers... heh heh. You can't bleed a turnip, and lawsuits are great for
getting a small film some publicity. That makes it SO much more enticing.
Films are a lot easier to sell when there's some real controversy behind
them - although that would not be our goal, I'm just saying that lawsuits
would just help to sell the thing.

The Xenu aspect could be presented as a "tale"... almost separate from the
factual parts. We could have some animation, with some quirky background
music to match it. It'd just be too hilarious to pass up. If the
information is confidential, why is it posted all over the web? That's
public domain. And that's where I read it. I wouldn't be stealing it from
any official literature, nor would I state such. We could even mix in some
Heavens Gate stuff, and just sort of throw out the Xenu tale without
specifically attributing it to anyone.

I spoke with a few more friends after reading Magoo's post. They said they
never knew about Xenu, and alot of audiences that would go see a film like
this don't do research on Scientology, nor do they spend a whole lot of time
browsing the internet for info on wacked out cults. But everyone I have
talked with said it sounded hilarious, and would make great material (but
rather disturbing).

Anyway... thanks for the feedback, Magoo. I'd love to chat with you further
on this. Is your email address posted on any of those sites? I'll check,
and if it is, I'll be contacting you.

And I'm not afraid of some harassment or legal teams. I'm a nobody. They'd
be wasting their time.

Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion ever
harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous and paranoid to be true.
Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation and
scrutiny, especially in the current state of anti-terrorist fever sweeping
the country. You think for their own survival, they would play it much
cooler. I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If it
is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time. No one
likes a bully.

>
> >Hi :)
> >Just read your ideas. I was in Scientology for 30 years (believe it or
not!)
> >and just escaped in July of 2000....thank goodness, and thank OSA!!!
> >Anyways...here's my two cents, for whatever it's worth:
>

barb

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 10:29:33 AM4/27/02
to
Shark wrote:

>
> "Magoo" <mag...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >Hi :)
> >Just read your ideas. I was in Scientology for 30 years (believe it or not!)
> >and just escaped in July of 2000....thank goodness, and thank OSA!!!
> >Anyways...here's my two cents, for whatever it's worth:
>
> I think this guy is a troll. Making a film about Scientology...
> um.... yeah.

Hey, it could happen! It's a great story! It has everything, space
aliens, culties, a toy Navy, an eevil dwarf...heck, if Scientology had
been around when JRR Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings, one would almost
assume it was written based on our Happy Fun Cult!

barb

barb

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 10:33:22 AM4/27/02
to

If you ever get a copy of the special on Scientology that was aired on
A&E a few years back, it'll give you a good idea of where the story
stopped. Since then, a lot has happened, and it would be worthwhile to
update the saga. I think that show is offered for sale on their website.
barb

Tommy

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 10:50:00 AM4/27/02
to

"bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:J5vy8.63615$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
><snip>

> Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion
ever
> harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous and paranoid to be
true.


Unfortunately, it is.

http://www.skeptic.com/03.3.jl-jj-scientology.html

http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/scientology/home.html#THREATEN-NETIZENS

http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/scientology/harass/timeline-95.html

> Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation
and
> scrutiny, especially in the current state of anti-terrorist fever sweeping
> the country. You think for their own survival, they would play it much
> cooler. I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
> tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If
it
> is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time. No one
> likes a bully.
>


But they're saving the planet in the name of Ron, so (to those who run this
sordid little show), the end justifies any means they think they can get
away with.

Tommy

--
"If people get in your way,
they need to be dealt with one way or another."

Jeff Quiros, Scientology spokesman


Hartley Patterson

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 11:41:06 AM4/27/02
to
bullDOG:


> And I'm not afraid of some harassment or legal teams. I'm a nobody. They'd
> be wasting their time.

So you wouldn't mind being driven into bankruptcy, being given a jail
sentence, having your pets beaten up, your relatives threatened? It's
happened to others.

> Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion ever
> harass its critics?

Hubbard told them to. For a long time it has worked, in part because
people don't believe it could happen.

> Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation and
> scrutiny,

It has. After a batch of jail sentences the CoS has become more cautious
and generally stays just within the law.

> I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
> tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If it
> is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time.

We would wish so. You have a steep learning curve to follow, go read the
websites.


--
"I think of my beautiful city in flames"
http://www.newsfrombree.co.uk
A medieval spreadsheet, enturbulating entheta and how to outrun
Thread. PGP ID 0xC27CDDDC

Hartley Patterson

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 11:44:26 AM4/27/02
to
bullDOG:

> * Start with a short biography of L Ron Hubbard, his history with the FBI,
> his paranoia about communists, the shattered relationship with his wife (who
> declared him helplessly insane), his history as a pulp-fiction author, his
> trip to Cuba, etc, etc (Im sure everyone here is familiar with his history,
> which I wasn't until this afternoon). What a great way to start a film.
> You couldn't ask for better material from a team of stand-up comedians.

So this is going to a hate film. <g> In that case book a lawyer, check
insurance (it will be astronomical), expect to be hit by all the dirty
tricks OSA can pull on you, your associates, friends and family. Bury any
skeletons you might have five fathoms deep. Talk to some security people.
Whenever appropriate, warn the police to expect trouble.

Personally I think the best defence against the CoS is exposure. If they
or their goons come anywhere near you, scream. Log anything suspicious
that happens, keep cameras handy (!).

For details, contact Patricia Greenburg et al who recently made a
fictional film 'The Profit' about an imaginary cult that had similarities
to Scientology. They were severely harassed.

> * Interviews with current Scientologists. Objectivity requires it.

You jest of course. CoS members won't talk to you. Oh, the cult might
offer to cooperate, but this would be for time wasting purposes.

> * Interviews with ex-members of the cult. We'd like to find some people who
> might be interested in participating in this documentary. We would probably
> include critics in this section - is it possible to communicate with people
> like Bob Minton and the founder of xenu.net? We'd also be putting some info
> about this newsgroup, its existence and role possibly.

Critics on the other hand love talking - you won't be able to shut them
up! Freezoners (scientologists who are not Church members) are probably in
between.

> * We thought it might be great to include the story of Xenu in the film.
> But it seems so absurd, we're not sure if people would buy it (not sure if I
> really buy it yet... I mean, do they really believe that?).

No. Only a small percentage of Scientologists have read the secret
scriptures (they're secret!). Those who have and are still members have to
believe them obviously.

> * I still don't really believe that Tom Cruise and John Travolta are really
> members of CoS.

They are, and say so when asked.

But we'll put that in there, too. It'd be great from a
> film-making perspective. Show how film-makers, actors, directors, basically
> Hollywood was involved in the whole evolution of Scientology.

It wasn't and isn't, it's just that the only CoS members known to the
media happen to be entertainment stars. Travolta et al don't have any
actual power within the CoS (DM made damn sure of that!).

Howard Edmunds

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 12:28:52 PM4/27/02
to

Koyaanaskatsi? Philip Glass a scientologist??

Howard
--
"A truth told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent."
-William Blake, Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Peter F. Curran

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 12:31:02 PM4/27/02
to
In article <J5vy8.63615$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,
"bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> writes:
[snip]

>Lawyers... heh heh. You can't bleed a turnip, and lawsuits are great for
>getting a small film some publicity. That makes it SO much more enticing.
>Films are a lot easier to sell when there's some real controversy behind
>them - although that would not be our goal, I'm just saying that lawsuits
>would just help to sell the thing.

Look, I'm NOT trying to discourage you, but you should realise
how life-changing such a pursuit could be.

From all the stories about Co$, it seems obvious they don't
CARE if you have money or not. These people can ruin your
life on a whim. It isn't about getting money from you, it
is about dragging you into court over and over again. There
is a good chance they can do this until they win *some* kind
of judgement against you, and you might have to face things
like garnished wages for the rest of your life. Not a pretty
picture.

Of course, if you *DID* do this, you could also document YOUR
story and use *THAT* film to educate the public about Co$....

(I'm not scieno, not ex-scieno, just a lurker.)

[snip]


>And I'm not afraid of some harassment or legal teams. I'm a nobody. They'd
>be wasting their time.

They have lawyers who are PAID to do exactly that. Lots of them. They have
attacked many "nobodies" in the past.

>Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion ever
>harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous and paranoid to be true.

Really? You haven't read enough of their history.

>Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation and
>scrutiny, especially in the current state of anti-terrorist fever sweeping
>the country. You think for their own survival, they would play it much
>cooler. I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
>tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If it
>is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time. No one
>likes a bully.

This organization broke into IRS offices, and STILL obtained tax exempt
status. They have enough money and influence to be very dangerous. If
you aren't at least a bit frightened of them then you shouldn't consider
making your film until you've learned more.

--
Peter F Curran
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

"And I am not a newbie I have been around probly longer then
you have. So talk a long walk off a short pier." - Jamie 2/17/02
**** USE EMAIL ADDRESS IN ORG LINE TO REPLY ****

ladayla

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 12:57:35 PM4/27/02
to
In article <J5vy8.63615$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "bullDOG" says...

So far as the "Xenu" story goes, you might go see Jane Wagner's play "Looking
For Intelligent Life In The Universe". Jane is Lily Tomlin's writer and life
partner and was a "client" of mine back in my life as a huborg auditor running
my own practice. I think that she handled the "Xenu" story in an amazingly funny
way and never gave it away that she had been connected to scn in any way.She
actually wasn't ever connected to the organization. Anyways, Lily made a good
success of the play. If it is not still around, you can prolly buy the book.

la

realpch

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 2:15:58 PM4/27/02
to
bullDOG wrote:
<snip>

> And I'm not afraid of some harassment or legal teams. I'm a nobody. They'd
> be wasting their time.
>
> Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion ever
> harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous and paranoid to be true.
> Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation and
> scrutiny, especially in the current state of anti-terrorist fever sweeping
> the country. You think for their own survival, they would play it much
> cooler. I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
> tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If it
> is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time. No one
> likes a bully.

Oh yes? Well, go ahead and make (or try to make) the film and see what
happens!
; )
Peach

Brian James

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 4:57:40 PM4/27/02
to
Hi BullDOG.
Man, as I read your post I'm thinking of my all-time favorite flick
"Waiting For Guffman," a hysterical mock-documentary... kind of along
the lines of "This Is Spinal Tap." I love the idea of an indie movie
about this...

I'm a music composer with an A/V studio. If you need a great film
score for this let me know. My studio email address is
great...@peoplepc.com.

Take care, and keep me informed.

Respectfully,

Brian James

Brian James

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 5:12:55 PM4/27/02
to
kymu...@aol.comnoemail (Kymus) wrote in message news:<20020427054323...@mb-co.aol.com>...

>(snip) the film you have in mind has already been done, and with a


> Scientologist composing the soundtrack. The soundtrack is by Phil Glass and
> the name of the movie (I can't really spell it) sounds something like Quiddich

> or Kwazquahtka or something. (snip)

Hi Kymus.
Please tell me Phillip Glass isn't a scieno... It broke my heart as a
composer to learn about Mark Isham and Chick Corea.

Brian James

DIANNA WAGNER

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 5:29:11 PM4/27/02
to

"bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:J5vy8.63615$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...

<snip>

> Lawyers... heh heh. You can't bleed a turnip, and lawsuits are great for
> getting a small film some publicity. That makes it SO much more enticing.
> Films are a lot easier to sell when there's some real controversy behind
> them - although that would not be our goal, I'm just saying that lawsuits
> would just help to sell the thing.

They don't care whether or not your turnip has any blood. It's not money
they want from people who criticize them (and anyone who says anything about
them that's not "issue approved" is criticizing them, in their minds), it's
your utter ruination. Get really familiar with a Scientology "doctrine"
called "Fair Game." They will do anything, legal or otherwise, to silence
anyone they perceive to be an enemy.

<snip>

> And I'm not afraid of some harassment or legal teams. I'm a nobody.
They'd
> be wasting their time.

These jackals have brought harrassment to a whole new level. And you
wouldn't be a "nobody" to them, you'd be a "Suppressive Person," to be
"disposed of quietly and without sorrow." That's not wasting time to them,
it's their mission.

> Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion
ever
> harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous and paranoid to be
true.
> Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation
and
> scrutiny, especially in the current state of anti-terrorist fever sweeping
> the country. You think for their own survival, they would play it much
> cooler. I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
> tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If
it
> is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time. No one
> likes a bully.
>

It is too ludicrous and paranoid to be true; nevertheless, it is all too
true.

<snip>

I hope you manage to accomplish this project, but do talk it over with
people like Tory ("Magoo") who can give you guidance that could (and this is
no exaggeration) save your life.


DIANNA WAGNER

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 5:38:56 PM4/27/02
to
"bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:J5vy8.63615$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...

<snip>

> Lawyers... heh heh. You can't bleed a turnip, and lawsuits are great for
> getting a small film some publicity. That makes it SO much more enticing.
> Films are a lot easier to sell when there's some real controversy behind
> them - although that would not be our goal, I'm just saying that lawsuits
> would just help to sell the thing.

They don't care whether or not your turnip has any blood. It's not money


they want from people who criticize them (and anyone who says anything about
them that's not "issue approved" is criticizing them, in their minds), it's
your utter ruination. Get really familiar with a Scientology "doctrine"
called "Fair Game." They will do anything, legal or otherwise, to silence
anyone they perceive to be an enemy.

<snip>

> And I'm not afraid of some harassment or legal teams. I'm a nobody.


They'd
> be wasting their time.

These jackals have brought harrassment to a whole new level. And you


wouldn't be a "nobody" to them, you'd be a "Suppressive Person," to be
"disposed of quietly and without sorrow." That's not wasting time to them,
it's their mission.

> Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion


ever
> harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous and paranoid to be
true.
> Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation
and
> scrutiny, especially in the current state of anti-terrorist fever sweeping
> the country. You think for their own survival, they would play it much
> cooler. I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
> tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If
it
> is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time. No one
> likes a bully.
>

Mike O'Connor

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 7:05:43 PM4/27/02
to
In article <QTEy8.676$uh4.90...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
"DIANNA WAGNER" <WAGNER...@prodigy.net> wrote:

> > Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or
> > religion ever harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous
> > and paranoid to be true. Any movement that is so hostile would come
> > under immediate investigation and scrutiny, especially in the
> > current state of anti-terrorist fever sweeping the country. You
> > think for their own survival, they would play it much cooler. I
> > can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare tactics
> > just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If it
> > is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time. No
> > one likes a bully.

> It is too ludicrous and paranoid to be true; nevertheless, it is all too
> true.


++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++

Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our finest asset and
gives us more protection than any other single asset. If certain
parties thought we were real we would have infinitely more trouble ...
without a public incredulity we never would have gotten as far as we
have. And now it's too late to be stopped. The protection was
accidental but it serves us very well indeed. Remember that next time
the ignorant scoff.

-- L. Ron Hubbard
HCOB 29 July 1963


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Many of the theories and teachings of scientology are so fanciful that
the reaction of the normal individual on hearing them is generally one
of amusement and incredulity ... the impression may exist ... that
scientology is just harmless nonsense and its followers merely queer
people, that its theories are foolish but funny and that not much harm
is being done by allowing silly people to have their silly beliefs and
carry on their silly practices. Such an attitude is welcomed by the
scientologists, for it serves to obscure the real nature of
scientology.

-- "Inquiries: Report of the Board of Inquiry into Scientology"
1965; the "Anderson Report"


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--
LYING IS A SCIENTOLOGY SACRAMENT
ASK THEM ABOUT XENU
Mike O'Connor <http://www.leptonicsystems.com/>

bullDOG

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 7:11:15 PM4/27/02
to
You guys are all really wonderful, and wow!! I couldn't have asked for more
feedback.

I am consulting with a director friend now, and he has been consulting with
some financiers on this project. We belong to a large group of closely
connected independent filmmakers, actors, directors,writers, etc who would
only become more dedicated as harassment intensified. These people, the
CoS, should understand that they operate within US borders, and this country
and its citizens and artists are NOT the type of people you try to push
around. All that would succeed in doing is making people more dedicated to
the project, and completely backfire in their face. As followers of LRH
(himself a hack of an artist), they should have an understanding of the
veracious tenacity of a determined artist or group of artists.

I personally have no real background, none that I need to hide, at least.
Everyone knows my background, I'm fairly open about it. About my only
secret is the fact that I do regular volunteer work at the Childrens'
Hospital with leukemia patients, due to cancer in my own history. There,
it's out. Now everyone knows. Hope I can't be blackmailed... heh heh.

Anyway... I wanted to thank everyone for all the wonderful feedback and
offers for assistance. As far as a soundtrack is concerned, that is
generally made during the editing process (post-filming), which might be
sometime down the road. We're trying to obtain financing at this point, and
actually still determining if this is a project we want to take on. But I
want to thank you for your offer, and I might be contacting you... I love to
use volunteered work on my projects, because that way you can verify that
the people involved have some sort of dedication to the project. But I
still have concerns. Regardless of whether we personally are hurt or not,
I would not want to put others in danger. As a matter of fact, this would
be my highest concern... I really don't want to put people in harm's way
(such as magoo).

One last comment: In no way would this film be made to mock anyone. That's
not the objective. Much like "American Pimp" was not made to mock. We
would simply want to present an objective view of a rather strange
phenomenon and let people come to their own conclusions. Once the film is
out there (and if it contained scenes of the film crew being harassed
directly), we'll let it speak for itself.

If this is a group of people who violently oppose the same 1st Ammendment
that my grandfather died in Germany to protect, than I will NOT back down
from this project. All the more reason to make it. If they wanted me to
show something good about them, than it would be up to them. If they
personally attacked me, I would make quite sure to show this perspective in
the film. However, to avoid slander/libel suits, I would have to verify
that all points are shown and that the film takes an objective view of the
whole bizarre circus.

Dave Bird

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 4:52:28 PM4/27/02
to
In article<e1ty8.77651$HH5....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, bullDOG

<nowa...@nospam.com> writes:
>Hello. At this point, I'd like to remain anonymous,

Your anonymity is not secure: get proper security before posting again
if you are serious about this.

>but am considering
>writing a screenplay/documentary about Scientology. It is actually kind of
>humorous. Since I have many friends in the independent film circuit, a few
>of whom discussed this idea with me tonight, I've decided this could be
>possible, and might actually be an enjoyable (or disturbing?), humorous and
>bizarre film for the un-initiated. We will most likely begin working on
>this very soon, but wanted to speak to some members of the community for
>ideas first. We're open to input from Scientology members as well as
>critics - basically, we're just curious if a film like this could generate
>enough interest to invest our time/money into making it.

There are a number of possible approaches. Probably you should read
first what has been done about biography of Hubbard, history
of Scientology, accounts by members, and so forth whether as books,
television, or film. The main Internet source is www.xenu.net .
You should also look up the film The Profit, which is a fictionalised
account that isn't really Scientology but looks a lot like it. Film
is best done by people expert in film learning the subject, or people
expert in the subject hiring film makers and leaving the technical
side to them.


>
>Anyway, here's some ideas we came up with for our possible film project
>(thought I'd throw em up on here and get some feedback):

I suppose the choice is between a documentary "about scientology", or
you might go for a single coherent area such as the life of Hubbard,
a member's story (my nine lives in scientology, road to Xenu), or
similar.

>
>* Start with a short biography of L Ron Hubbard, his history with the FBI,
>his paranoia about communists, the shattered relationship with his wife (who
>declared him helplessly insane), his history as a pulp-fiction author, his
>trip to Cuba, etc, etc (Im sure everyone here is familiar with his history,
>which I wasn't until this afternoon). What a great way to start a film.
>You couldn't ask for better material from a team of stand-up comedians.

Sounds good -- compare Bare Faced Messiah or A Piece of Blue Sky.
Another way is to inter-cut a Hubbard biography in flashback with
a current individual's story, perhaps on the device he is
learning about it. A fictional individual's in-then-out story would
be a good way of giving the film shape. You could mix in real people's
comments to give extra flavour (if you want a fictional device they're
"watching the film" of the member's experiences. Maybe with him,
afterwards, having "got out and made the film").

Hubbard's biography could be handled in a similar way. Maybe a tape
of Hubbub telling his own glorious biography, over shots of what
actually happened; this would be a bit ambitious, you would need
to do period and location.


>
>* Interviews with current Scientologists. Objectivity requires it. Plus,
>we might find some interesting folks to talk with. We'd really like to take
>an open stance on this one...

They will NOT co-operate, they will only try to destroy the film.

>no condascending questions, just free
>chit-chat with the members. Are Sea Org members really only paid $45/week?

Ask an ex-member. My impression is, sometimes even less.

>We'd put that in there. We'll also be trying to find some "volunteers" or
>whatever they call them - the volunteer doctor people who run around
>assisting people with mental and physical illness.
>
>* Interviews with ex-members of the cult. We'd like to find some people who
>might be interested in participating in this documentary. We would probably
>include critics in this section - is it possible to communicate with people

Yes, there are many ex-members you can talk to. Some of the people
who play major roles are around on the Internet (Gerry Armstrong,
Monica Pignotti, etc).

>like Bob Minton and the founder of xenu.net?

The founder of xenu.net is Andreas Heldal-Lund, from Norway. I'm sure
he'd co-operate if you meet him in Europe. Bob Minton is not flavour
of the month round here any more (they got him by the balls through his
own carelessness and forced him to sabotage a court case against them).

>We'd also be putting some info
>about this newsgroup, its existence and role possibly.

There is info around about it's formation etc.

>
>* We thought it might be great to include the story of Xenu in the film.
>But it seems so absurd, we're not sure if people would buy it (not sure if I
>really buy it yet... I mean, do they really believe that?). If the audience
>didn't accept the idea, it'd make the film look silly, like we were just
>trying to call Scientologists a bunch of "Heavens Gate"-type wackos, which
>is not our goal.

Yes, I think you should include it. Look at the example in
the BBC-TV Panorama documentary. I don't like the little pill-shaped
graphics for the BTs, I think they should be little animated ghosties
that pop up and go "whoo!".

>
>* I still don't really believe that Tom Cruise and John Travolta are really
>members of CoS. But we'll put that in there, too.

Well, it is confirmed in various press accounts. They are not very
interesting, though.

>It'd be great from a
>film-making perspective. Show how film-makers, actors, directors, basically
>Hollywood was involved in the whole evolution of Scientology.

Hubbard had Dick de Mille as a side-kick, once worked on one
movie script, had his own "studios" built and had made propagands
films there -- badly. Sort of a "Citizen Kane" on a smaller scale
(he had money but was always a laughing-stock to outside press.

Then there's his 300ft ship, and the country mansion.


>
>* Lastly... the effects of Scientology on Clearwater, Florida. This would
>be beautiful. And it would speak for itself, I think.
>
>* We also considered putting footage of the documentary-making process in
>the film itself. This might be kinda interesting.

Possibly.


>
>Anyway... just thought I'd post this and see if I could get any feedback
>from the community. So shout out at us, and let us know what you think -
>IT'S IN THE NAME OF INDEPENDENT FILM!! heh heh heh.

You would be better based in Canada; and getting secure anonymity.
The moment Cof$ find out who you are, they will try to disrupt you
by blackmail, lawsuits, inducing strikes in the crew, etc.

--
FUCK THE SKULL OF HUBBARD, AND BUGGER THE DWARF HE RODE IN ON!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8====3 (O 0) GROETEN --- PRINTZ XEMU EXTRAWL no real OT has
|n| (COMMANDER, FIFTH INVADER FORCE) ever existed

Woggo

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 9:08:16 PM4/27/02
to

"bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:J5vy8.63615$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
[SNIP]

> Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion
ever
> harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous and paranoid to be
true.
> Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation
and
> scrutiny, especially in the current state of anti-terrorist fever sweeping
> the country. You think for their own survival, they would play it much
> cooler. I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
> tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If
it
> is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time. No one
> likes a bully.

You'd better start doing some reading, bubba. Scn's habit of using a
shotgun to kill ants is well documented. My suggested first stops:
Operation Clambake ( http://www.xenu.net ), Mark Dallara's site, Xenu City
( http://www.xenu-city.net/intro.html ), and Kristi Wachter's (Hey! I
finally spelled it right!) site, Scientology Lies (
http://www.scientology-lies.com ).

While I haven't had picketers outside my house (considering my
neighborhood, it's a wise decision on the part of Scn...) or been followed
by rent-a-goons --- I'm not really 'public' enough --- I'm growing quite the
collection of DMCA complaints from their lawyers, Moxon & Kobrin, and have
had to mirror my own web pages ( http://rumble.at/woggos-arcade ) across
four or five different free servers at this point. (A hint to Paquette,
Kobrin, & Moxon: YOU CAN'T COPYRIGHT SOMEONE'S HEAD.) So far, it's an
annoyance, but I've a feeling a court date is not an 'if' but a 'when', if
they don't bone up on their knowledge of copyright law, Fair Use, and
satiric content.

True, no one likes a bully. They don't care. They don't want to be Loved,
but Feared. And yep... Their days are numbered, only in part because of
what happens on A.R.S. Too many lies, too many foot-bullets, and too few
people who aren't aware of what they're really like.

Woggo


Keith Henson

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 10:23:19 PM4/27/02
to
On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:41:06 +0100, Hartley Patterson
<hpt...@daisy.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>bullDOG:
>
>> And I'm not afraid of some harassment or legal teams. I'm a nobody. They'd
>> be wasting their time.

You were a nobody, now you are a "who" by the cult's thinking. There
is compensation for being in the line of fire, fer example, chicks.
Talk to Zenon about his adventures. He wound up with one of the most
desirable women in the Netherlands. (Or she did with him-- both Karin
and Zenon have caused the cult a ton of grief.)

>So you wouldn't mind being driven into bankruptcy, being given a jail
>sentence, having your pets beaten up, your relatives threatened? It's
>happened to others.
>
>> Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion ever
>> harass its critics?
>
>Hubbard told them to. For a long time it has worked, in part because
>people don't believe it could happen.
>
>> Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation and
>> scrutiny,
>
>It has. After a batch of jail sentences the CoS has become more cautious
>and generally stays just within the law.
>
>> I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
>> tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true. If it
>> is true, than this is a cult that will die off in a short time.
>
>We would wish so. You have a steep learning curve to follow, go read the
>websites.

The whole story is a saga that would take longer than the Fellowship
of the Ring as a movie. May I suggest you consider it in small bites?

For example, take a look at the story of Tom Klemesrud, Ms Blood, and
-AB-. I just posted an update recently under the subject "South of
the Border at the Road Kill Cafe. It could be lightly fictionalized
and produced for very little--as movies go. The story is seriously
wacky, but it is just what the cult does.

Keith Henson

PS, The excesses of cults are on a par with other a dope saga and for
good reason. What scientology (and all other cults) do to people
activates the same brain reward pathways as drug addiction. Send me
an email address and I will send you an article on the subject.

Keith Henson

Dave Bird

unread,
Apr 27, 2002, 8:21:19 PM4/27/02
to
In article<neGy8.66816$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, bullDOG

<nowa...@nospam.com> writes:
>You guys are all really wonderful, and wow!! I couldn't have asked for more
>feedback.
>
>I am consulting with a director friend now, and he has been consulting with
>some financiers on this project. We belong to a large group of closely
>connected independent filmmakers, actors, directors,writers, etc who would
>only become more dedicated as harassment intensified. These people, the
>CoS, should understand that they operate within US borders, and this country
>and its citizens and artists are NOT the type of people you try to push
>around.

Wrong answer: US courts are corrupt as fuck, and have a long
record of doing whatever Cof$cum ask them to. You should
try Britain (they have rarely got very far in British courts),
or Canada.


>Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion ever

>harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous and paranoid to be true.

As you also find it unbelievable that Tom Cruise and Fat Vinnie
are members. Well, I'm not going to loudly insist on this
(after all, who the hell am I from your point of view).

I just suggest you check your facts against the published record,
before taking risks based on them.

__ .\|/////..
||_.-' '. /\\|// ----
// ; | -----
--._// .\|/. .==== =====. ---
(( //(####) \d]>||<[d]>\ (~\ The only real crime for which
|| v '--'\\ . | \ | one can be punished by govern-
|| ; v . {_ \ : \/ ments of today is lack of money.
// .' : .'___' : ' In other crimes, if one has the
// ; '. ~===~ /\ huge sums necessary to hire
// . .... o : /__\'''' / \ lawyers, one can often get off.
. \\\\~~~~|~~~~~~~|\\ / /\/,,,L.RON HUBBARD,
. | .\''. |/''''/.|,,\\ //,,,,,,,Phat Dead Phounder of
'.|: O :|[ / ]|,,,,\/,,,,,,,,, the $cientology cult.
----------------| '...' |[__O__]|,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,[in HCOPL 20/sept/76]---------
|_______|_______|,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

John Dorsay

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 12:02:18 AM4/28/02
to
hkhe...@cogeco.ca (Keith Henson) wrote in
news:3ccb5a03...@news2.lightlink.com:

<snip>


> For example, take a look at the story of Tom Klemesrud, Ms
> Blood, and -AB-. I just posted an update recently under the
> subject "South of the Border at the Road Kill Cafe. It could be

This didn't seem to make it to my news server, nor is it on Google.

Could you repost it please?

Thanks.

--
"I have no clue what is really going on, so I have no idea what to
do."

Scientologist Phil Chitester

Phineas Fogg

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 4:54:22 AM4/28/02
to
You are in for a wild ride.

If you don't paint Scientology in rosy colors, they will make your
life very difficult.

But to hell with the bastards.

Tell it like it really is, and don't let the bastards get you down.

Their attacks on you can become free publicity for you, and more
people will want to see it.

But be sure to show people how Scientologists think and act. Let the
audience hear the cacophony of a group of Scientologists using their
arcane jargon. Show how they behave at their rallies, the euphoric
frenzy they work themselves up into, similar to the Hitler rallies.
I've been many of them, when I was much younger, and in hindsight,
they now seem so eerie to me now, even though I didn't see them for
what they really were then, i.e., a utopian dream.

I will among the first to buy a ticket, and good luck to you, sir.

Do it.

Phineas Fogg


bullDOG <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:e1ty8.77651$HH5....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> Hello. At this point, I'd like to remain anonymous, but am


considering
> writing a screenplay/documentary about Scientology. It is actually
kind of
> humorous. Since I have many friends in the independent film
circuit, a few
> of whom discussed this idea with me tonight, I've decided this could
be
> possible, and might actually be an enjoyable (or disturbing?),
humorous and
> bizarre film for the un-initiated. We will most likely begin
working on
> this very soon, but wanted to speak to some members of the community
for
> ideas first. We're open to input from Scientology members as well
as
> critics - basically, we're just curious if a film like this could
generate
> enough interest to invest our time/money into making it.
>

> Anyway, here's some ideas we came up with for our possible film
project
> (thought I'd throw em up on here and get some feedback):
>

> * Start with a short biography of L Ron Hubbard, his history with
the FBI,
> his paranoia about communists, the shattered relationship with his
wife (who
> declared him helplessly insane), his history as a pulp-fiction
author, his
> trip to Cuba, etc, etc (Im sure everyone here is familiar with his
history,
> which I wasn't until this afternoon). What a great way to start a
film.
> You couldn't ask for better material from a team of stand-up
comedians.
>

> * Interviews with current Scientologists. Objectivity requires it.
Plus,
> we might find some interesting folks to talk with. We'd really like
to take

> an open stance on this one... no condascending questions, just free


> chit-chat with the members. Are Sea Org members really only paid
$45/week?

> We'd put that in there. We'll also be trying to find some
"volunteers" or
> whatever they call them - the volunteer doctor people who run around
> assisting people with mental and physical illness.
>
> * Interviews with ex-members of the cult. We'd like to find some
people who
> might be interested in participating in this documentary. We would
probably
> include critics in this section - is it possible to communicate with
people

> like Bob Minton and the founder of xenu.net? We'd also be putting


some info
> about this newsgroup, its existence and role possibly.
>

> * We thought it might be great to include the story of Xenu in the
film.
> But it seems so absurd, we're not sure if people would buy it (not
sure if I
> really buy it yet... I mean, do they really believe that?). If the
audience
> didn't accept the idea, it'd make the film look silly, like we were
just
> trying to call Scientologists a bunch of "Heavens Gate"-type wackos,
which
> is not our goal.
>

> * I still don't really believe that Tom Cruise and John Travolta are
really

> members of CoS. But we'll put that in there, too. It'd be great


from a
> film-making perspective. Show how film-makers, actors, directors,
basically
> Hollywood was involved in the whole evolution of Scientology.
>

> * Lastly... the effects of Scientology on Clearwater, Florida. This
would
> be beautiful. And it would speak for itself, I think.
>
> * We also considered putting footage of the documentary-making
process in
> the film itself. This might be kinda interesting.
>

Kymus

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 5:54:07 AM4/28/02
to
>From: "bullDOG" nowa...@nospam.com

>I read the post about
>someone having already done a documentary and that's kind of a bummer, but I
>figured as much.

I hope that's not your response to mine about Kooyahooist . . .
Kwanzayahtzee... ah heck ... the one with the native american word meaning
"world out of balance". I was being facetious, because that work is famous for
a style of camera work showing a speeded up world where it is impossible to
follow the action except as a distorted blur in time lapse. It's a statement
about the modern world and its being out of balance. You'd never cover all the
material you have ambitions to include without producing the equivalent of that
Koos-a-yoostie . . . koostark . .. ah heck - that movie.

There have been some TV docs on Scientology.

>The Xenu aspect could be presented as a "tale"... almost separate from the
>factual parts.

Leave Xenu out of it unless you really really want them to take off the velvet
gloves and just come at you like Shiites on valium.

>We could even mix in some
>Heavens Gate stuff, and just sort of throw out the Xenu tale without
>specifically attributing it to anyone.

Mix in some Heaven's Gate? Oh man - you plan to spend your life defending
against them - don't you?

>And I'm not afraid of some harassment or legal teams. I'm a nobody. They'd
>be wasting their time.

Research what you are getting into.

>Why would any movement or religion ever
>harass its critics?

Research what you are getting into.

>Which brings up one last question: Why would any movement or religion ever
>harass its critics? This just sounds too ludicrous and paranoid to be true.

Research what you are getting into.

>Any movement that is so hostile would come under immediate investigation and
>scrutiny, especially in the current state of anti-terrorist fever sweeping
>the country.

Research what you are getting into.

>You think for their own survival, they would play it much
>cooler.

When it's all the marbles, you play for all the marbles. That's them in a
nutshell. Don't offer to piss on their marbles if you aren't committed to it
in bitter earnest.

Straight up, dude.

>I can understand lawsuits, but personal harassment and scare
>tactics just sound too brutish, insane and stupid to really be true.

Research what you are getting into.


// I remind you that you are under the committee's subpeona, and we'll keep
asking this question until you answer: Are you now or have you ever been a top
poster? //

Kymus

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 5:58:08 AM4/28/02
to
>From: hkhe...@cogeco.ca (Keith Henson)

>PS, The excesses of cults are on a par with other a dope saga and for
>good reason. What scientology (and all other cults) do to people
>activates the same brain reward pathways as drug addiction. Send me
>an email address and I will send you an article on the subject.
>
>Keith Henson

Keith already has the title for this docy in mind: "The Screamin' Memes of
Scientology".

Kymus

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 6:05:17 AM4/28/02
to
>From: Howard Edmunds hedm...@appleonline.net

>Koyaanaskatsi?

Ah yes, thank you.

> Philip Glass a scientologist??

Maybe not now, I don't know. He did achieve Scientology "OT" status, but that
doesn't mean he is still in it and loyal to the evil dwarf trolls who are
running it. Would it help if I assured you that he was one of the people on
the outer fringe, who thought he was getting into something where everyone
would be real nice to each other and anyone being nasty to Scientology just
needed to be given an appropriate Hello Kitty gift and a little chat?

One of the key facts about Scientology is its "onion" structure. There are
layers and layers until you get to the core. The core is what is discussed
here mostly and on the webs. The nice soft and pleasant outer rind is rarely
given much public attention.

Don't freak. Phil ain't a baddy.

Kymus

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 6:16:48 AM4/28/02
to
>From: bjac...@petpc.com (Brian James)

>Hi Kymus.
>Please tell me Phillip Glass isn't a scieno.

You find Scienos in the oddest places. Consider this website, hit from a
google searchof "philip glass scientology"

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~davcooke/links.htm

Since you are the second person to be upset by this, let me hasten to add that
my memory is not "Clear" quality (snicker). Maybe I could be wrong. (Doubtful
on this point.) LOTS of people detoured through Scientology throughout the
years. It's no crime, much as some people want to make it the equivalent of
being an unindicted criminal for having been in Scientology.

But Phil's participation was probably of the nice kind, the sort of stepping up
from Hippie dreaming to getting to brass tacks CEO implementation kind of
ambition to it, and not anything having to do with the seemy underside of
Scientology, which the critical websites mostly focus on.

Hey - consider the massive charitable work the Roman Catholic Church does, the
massive good, and that it still has a seemy underside to it. Life ain't black
and white.

If that doesn't assauge you - um, well - then "NO, HE NEVER WAS". (But I'm
lying just to be nice.)

Kymus

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 6:18:32 AM4/28/02
to
>From: Penult pen...@riverstyx.com

>include Ron's one hour lovin
>technique where he puts his flaccid penis in the subject then lays
>still for 60 minutes until he goes clear.

There isn't great proof that this incident, taken from Bent Corydon's book, is
genuine. Corydon's book is still good though. Corydon introduces the "onion"
model of Scientology idea.

A lot of the rest of your snide innuendo is also unfounded.

Magoo

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 7:28:10 AM4/28/02
to
Ok bullDOG>>>>>

I warned ya :) But I'm all for you doing this film, if you have the backing
you say.

I still highly suggest you do a great deal of research and reading of what
has gone down in the past with similar people having such a 'great idea'.
Kwowledge on the front end can save you time, money,
and a great deal of headaches. I'm a firm believer in history repeats
itself, so we may as well learn from it!

But as I offered before, once you've got an attoney, and reviewed what you
*really* should and should not do....send me an e-mail.
Sounds like LOTS of fun!

Tory/Magoo~dancin in the light!~


"bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:neGy8.66816$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...

ptsc

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 8:59:10 AM4/28/02
to
On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 04:02:18 GMT, John Dorsay <dor...@umbra.xenu> wrote:

>hkhe...@cogeco.ca (Keith Henson) wrote in
>news:3ccb5a03...@news2.lightlink.com:
>
><snip>
>> For example, take a look at the story of Tom Klemesrud, Ms
>> Blood, and -AB-. I just posted an update recently under the
>> subject "South of the Border at the Road Kill Cafe. It could be
>
>This didn't seem to make it to my news server, nor is it on Google.

It was posted, and made it to my news server. However, it's not on
Google Groups, which is apparently censoring things at random.
Maybe they have the same Scientologist working there they had
at Deja.

>Could you repost it please?

>Thanks.

South of the Border at the Road Kill Cafe.

There is too much red in the Road Kill Cafe's decor. The miniature palm
trees on either side of the door are ratty, like someone left them out on a
freezing night. The specials de jour are chalked on a red A-frame sign.
There is a pay phone on the wall inside the double door "airlock" along
with advertisements for someone's cleaning service and a note about an
"open to the public" bakery surplus. A poster for a sports team named after
some vicious animal is tacked on one wall.

The windows go all the way to the floor. There are low curtain rods made of
2-inch brass pipe about 3 feet off the floor. The bar has a shingle roof
built over it. In one corner there is a library of old books, real as far
as I can tell. They are too far away to make out the titles. I am there mid
afternoon. It is the wrong time of year for the outdoor patio to be
inviting. You don't even want to think about the menu.

No ID is offered; "Don't be silly," but substantial amount of cash changes
hands. My activities, reports, and analysis are appreciated. As an aid to
further analysis there is an extended period of discussion. I get to ask
questions. Some have answers, some do not and some are of the kind that if
I were told . . .. Eventually I work back to my first contacts with a.r.s,
early 1995 to Tom Klemesrud,Linda Woolard, -AB- (Rummelhart), and
penet. The seemingly pointless Ms Blood story has long fascinated
me. Only in the last year was the point of the operation understood (to
get Tom locked up and Support.com shut down for an extended period while
the police looked for a body to go with the blood all over his
apartment). Some of my knowledge of these events is confirmed, and a few
more pieces of the puzzle are added.

The Ms Blood story is a spectacular example (on a par with framing Paulette
Cooper) of a scientology operation against Tom Klemesrud. When the plan
went sour and an internal leak came to light, possibly exposing the whole
operation, scientology manipulated the police as far away as Finland
through their lawyers and private investigators and used the police to
manipulate others such as anon.penet and CalTech. They later manipulated a
small claims court which would not even *look* at Tom's side of the story
when Ms Blood sued Tom over being scared of him when he was 1500 miles
away. They manipulated Judge Whyte's Federal court, and Tom's insurance
company into an entirely unjustified settlement. So far scientology has
gotten away clean from a long list of crimes and civil rights violations.

To recap for new readers, Tom was the sysop of Support.com, a BBS/ISP run
out of his bedroom. Support.com was then the connection point to the net
for major SP and former high-level scientologist Dennis Erlich. "Jerry
Ladd" was also posting from Support.com. I am not sure he was ever
identified. Tom had some previous experience with the cult's corruption
and knew some of the IRS agents who had been involved. From:

http://wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de/~krasel/CoS/ars-FAQ/20.htm

"Prior to January 14, 1995, [the date of the blood incident] I was
contacted by attorneys for the Religious Technology Center (hereinafter
referred to as "RTC"), a Church of Scientology organization. The attorneys
for RTC informed me that a subscriber to my system, Dennis Erlich, was
allegedly violating RTC's copyrighted materials by making postings of those
materials to the Internet. RTC's attorneys demanded action to block Mr.
Erlich's access to the Internet via my bulletin board system. I contacted
RTC's attorneys and requested that they provide me with copies of the
copyrighted materials so that I could compare it with what Mr. Erlich had
posted to the Internet. They refused to do so and I refused to take action
against Mr. Erlich.

"On January 14, 1995, I was in contact with plaintiff [Linda Woolard, aka
"Miss Bloodybutt" herein for the first and only time in my life.

"I met the plaintiff at a bar. Contrary to her assertions that I approached
her, she approached me. She identified herself as an agent for the
IRS. [editorial note--Linda may have been an IRS/"Church Tax Compliance
Committee" agent authorized by the secret deal between the IRS and
scientology.] Part of our discussion concerned the bulletin board system I
operated and she expressed an interest in seeing the system. Therefore, the
plaintiff accompanied me to my apartment in North Hollywood.

"The bar was in Burbank on my way home. I have not been there for years. I
do not hang out there. I know the management there and is why I chose to go
there. You would think they had to have been following me.

"She--or someone else--had to have at least been following me from the
Burbank airport. The cab driver was the only one who knew where I wanted to
go. We had trouble finding the place too, driving back and forth on the
surrounding streets. They may have been in touch with the airline,
according to info I have.

"'Miss Blood' got access to the internet site by claiming to be an IRS CID
agent, re-investigating the tax status of the CoS. I sat down a light
colored dinette chair for her to sit on. There were no stains on that chair
after she had sat on it--I have witnesses. So, she was not bleeding--
"soaking," before she went into the bathroom.

"She excused herself to the bathroom. She took some time, so I checked on
her to find much blood _smeared_ all over the bathroom: On the floor,
walls, shower doors, but little in the toilet. After I had discovered her,
she came out of the bathroom and said: "I am from the Church of
Scientology, and I think that you should do as Thomas Small has instructed
you to do--delete Dennis Erlich from the BBS."

"I am just reporting what happened. The first thing she said when I found
her sitting on the toilet in the bathroom with about a pint of blood on the
floor in front of her was: "Tom, we have got to stop having rough sex like
this."

"Of course, I was fully clothed, with my shoes on, being a gentleman,
because previous to this, she was an IRS Criminal Investigation Division
agent in my mind. She impersonated one, and dropped names that are only
know previously in confidential files at IRS CID, or to a former Federal
Grand Jury. Woolard was engaging in psychological terrorism, in my opinion.
Or, perhaps she thought by mentioning this bizarre notion, I might believe
it happened.

"I was shocked, and went to call for help. She came out of the bathroom and
came to me saying this: "I am a representative of the Church of
Scientology, and I think you should do as attorney Thomas Small has said
you should do--disconnect Dennis Erlich from the Internet."

"She immediately returned to the bathroom.

"She told me she was sent on a mission to do what she was doing. I believe
she did not know I had called the police and had left the apartment door
wide open for them to come in. She was surprised to see them. She left
several things behind.

"Then she came out undressed, saying: "I have been sent on a mission, and I
have been instructed to put some blood in your bed." She said this
courteously, with a smile. As she turned to lay down on the bed, I saw the
sausage of blood nestled in her crotch. She wiggled her butt in the bed,
got up, looked at the stain on the sheets to see if she liked the stain,
and returned to the bathroom. She did this with no interference from me.

"A phone call was placed to 911. However, the telephone call was placed by
me. When the police came to my apartment, I was in fact arrested on the
false allegations of the plaintiff that I threatened her. The police never
pursued these allegations.

"She told the police she had a unique medical problem. This problem is of
the type that caused a few pints of blood to be smeared on bathroom walls,
in my shower, on carpets, my chairs, and bed. The medical problem takes the
form of causing all my linens, and new rolls of toilet paper to be strewn
on the floor and rubbed in the produce of her problem.

"In fact, the blood came from a bag, bladder, or balloon nestled in her
crotch. I saw it. If this is a medical problem, then she has an intestine
or artery running outside her body filled with cold almost coagulated blood."

**********88**********

Tom suspects his drinks were drugged and the drug was probably the cult's
favourite, chloral hydrate, also used to keep Lisa McPherson under control
while she died of dehydration. Tom has a high tolerance to downers and it
seems Ms Woolard did not use enough. Tom spoiled the operation by calling
the police after he discover her spreading blood all over his bathroom and
bedroom. If this was not an act of terrorism, I don't know what it would
be called. (The police copy of the 911 recording could not be
located--common for Scientology cases--but a backup tape from the fire
department was found. The transcript is posted a number of places on the
Internet, for example a March 22, 2001 posting by ptsc in the thread "Recap
of the story of Miss Bloodybutt - for Tom Klemesrud.") The police who
came in response to his call to arrested Tom
911 and spent the night in jail based on false accusations of threats by Ms
Woolard. Ms Woolard refused medical treatment and vanished after the
police arrived. The details of this bizarre story are on the Internet:

http://www.planetkc.com/sloth/sci/Fair_game_ord.html

Ms Woolard even left her address book and had tried to make calls to a
private detective, Gene Ingram. Ingram (a former police officer kicked out
of the Los Angeles Police Department) is paid over $700,000 a year by
Scientology for his work intimidating people and running operations such as
the one against Tom Klemesrud.

There was no question this was a Scientology operation, but the goal of the
operation was not clear for a number of years. March 22, 2001
free...@aol.com posted:

"Scientology's OSA department had one or two of its 'agents' work on a DA
package including the incident even before Ms. Bloodybutt tried to frame
Tom Klemesrud. That DA package was to included the claim that Tom Klemesrud
was being questioned by the police about murdering a woman. (An anonymous
telephone call to the police by a woman screaming for help was probably
planned, but the woman was too drunk to perform the call or remember to
call.) The plan was to make Tom Klemesrud appear that he had murdered
someone and then successfully hide / dispose of the body, and to have him
incarcerated for a crime that had not even been committed."

Tom was not even the primary target of this operation. The entire
over-complicated operation was done with the object of getting Dennis
Erlich, a former high-level Scientologist, and subscriber to Tom's Internet
service, support.com, off the net. Dennis had earned the ire of
Scientology by openly talking about their "secrets," particularly the
OT3/Xenu story and Scientology's illegal practice of medicine using "emeters."

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/cos/rnewman/erlich/home.html.

As we have long known -AB- (Sea Org member Thomas Gerard Rummelhart, former
radio officer of the Freewinds) was working at "INCOMM," the cult's
computer operation in LA. In late 1994, early 1995, he was reading and
posting on ars. There may have been no specific provision against it in
those days but -AB- was paranoid enough to be posting through
penet. Perhaps he figured the general prohibition against contact with SPs
applied.

When Tom's version of the Ms Blood story showed up on a.r.s, -AB- had seen
a different story in someone's files on the INCOMM computers. If the
cult's assertion on legal papers supplied to the police in Finland can be
believed, the document had never been on paper. In the 1992 Caltech Alumni
Directory -AB- was listed this way:

RUMMELHART, Thomas G.; '84 MS EE; r. Same as Business;
b. Computer Operations Dir.; Incomm, 4833 Fountain Ave.,
Los Angeles, CA 90029, 213 664-0371

So he probably had root access at INCOMM. January 23, 1995 -AB- posted Ms
Blood's version on a.r.s through penet and a mail2news gateway from his
account at Cal Tech, thinking (no doubt) he was doing a good deed defending
scientology. Jan 25, 1995 according to an ARS posting, he sent the name and
phone number of Linda Woolard (Ms Blood) to Vega. (There's a name not seen
in a while!)

What he did not realize was that the "shore story" of the partly failed
blood attack on Tom Klemesrud was an internal maximum level scientology
secret until released--and no decision had been made about releasing it.
When the story appeared on a.r.s, prior to Helena Kobrin faxing a close
version to the Los Angeles Times, or even any copies being printed, it
looked to the powers running the Ms Blood operation that their internal
secret computer files were being tapped. (Knowing scientology, David
Miscavige was probably micromanaging the operations and was in a diminutive
frothing fury.)

-AB- knew they were after him and posted in reply to "Old Timer" about 11
pm PST January 25:

> There is something about this cycle...I can not put my finger
> on it...but maybe just maybe there is some truth to -AB-.
>
> I do not feel OSA had anything to do with a set up. I also
> feel, more investigation IS warranted.
>
> I am asking for a Board of Investigation.
>
> Old Timer

Why thank you, O.T.! And you risk being branded "OSA" along
with me! Your courage is encouraging that one day a.r.s will pursue
more truth and less bashing and accusations that no one ever proves
on one side or the other.

I told in another post how I got the data, and I submit that to
the B of I. On top of that I also sent you the exact name and phone
number of Linda, by private e-mail. Since it seems that some feel now
that Vega and I are "OSA" <sheesh>, maybe they will believe you.

I am not OSA. In fact OSA is looking for me since I "scooped" them
on this and got to the bottom of it before they did. But I choose to
remain anon to both sides. FWIW.

Peace,
AB

This was the last known posting from -AB-.

From what we can see from the outside, there was a frantic, no expense
barred, effort using Gene Ingram, the LAPD, then Interpol, the Finnish
police and the LAPD again to determine how the leak had occurred.

The LA Times Feb 22, 1995 reported:

"Helsingius refused at first to knuckle [under] to the church's demands, but he
says the search warrant gave Finnish authorities the right to seize his
computer, which contains the identity of all 200,000 people who have sent
messages through anon.penet.fi during its 2 1/2 years of existence. Faced
with a potentially catastrophic loss of confidentiality--anon.penet.fi
processes more than 7,000 messages daily, mostly for
Americans--Helsingius and his attorney negotiated a compromise: On Feb.
8, he gave police the single identity in question.

"Within the hour, Helsingius reports, a church representative told him
the church had the name. (A church spokeswoman contacted would say only
that "we took actions to handle illegal posting," insisting that her
organization was simply defending its rights. As for anonymous posting,
the spokeswoman added, "People should be responsible for what they do.")"

Julf Helsingius, the administrator of anon.penet.fi, wrote:

"Based on a request from Interpol, the Finnish police have gotten a
search&seizure warrant on my home and the anon.penet.fi server, and gotten
the real mail address of a user that has allegedly posted material stolen
from the Church of Scientology. Fortunately I managed to prevent them from
getting more than this one, single address."

The information they got pointed back to an account, t...@alumni.caltech.edu
on the Cal Tech computers. Within hours scientologists were there. Cal
Tech system administrators at first would not give up the name. Months
later Rich Fagen Director, Campus Computing Organization Caltech wrote:

By ri...@cco.caltech.edu (Richard E. Fagen)
26 Jun 1995 16:24:03 GMT

"On Wednesday afternoon, February 8th, three private investigators visited
the Caltech Security Office and the Campus Computing Organization. The
P.I.s wanted to know the identity of the holder of the account "tc" on the
Caltech Alumni Association computer system (alumni.caltech.edu). They
claimed to have gotten the account name from the anon.penet.fi server via
the Helsinki police. Due to the unusual nature of this request, the P.I.s
were told that Caltech would need more information before this type of
information could be given out. Later that day, an attorney representing
the Church of Scientology called the campus computing support office
demanding the name of the account holder. The attorney claimed that a
document had been stolen from a CoS computer system, and that the document
had been posted to the a.r.s newsgroup from alumni.caltech.edu via the anon
remailer. (The claim was the document was created on Jan. 21 and appeared
in a.r.s. on Jan. 24). The computing support staff did not divulge the name
of the account holder, and the CoS attorney was referred to the Caltech
General Counsel's office.

"The Computer Crime Unit of the Bunco-Forgery Division of the LAPD
subsequently contacted Caltech security and asked for more information on
the case. The LAPD wanted to know if a breakin to the CoS computer had
occurred from the alumni system. Caltech told the LAPD that no evidence of
such a break in could be found. The LAPD requested and was given the name
of the "tc" account holder with the understanding that this information
would not be divulged. A couple days after that Caltech was informed that
the LAPD could find no evidence that a crime had been committed.

"In the ensuing several days, the attorney and P.I.s representing CoS made
repeated attempts (both via phone and by physically appearing on the
Caltech and JPL campuses) to obtain the contents of the tc account and also
the tape backups (the account holder had admitted to deleting most of the
contents of the account). The CoS attorney produced a letter allegedly
signed by the tc account holder allowing CoS permission to get the data
stored on that account and the backups. Due to irregularities with both the
letter and a phone conversation with the account holder, permission for CoS
to have access to the data in the account was denied by Caltech.

"After the CoS attorney and P.I.s continued their attempts to get the data,
Caltech retained the counsel of an independent law firm. Soon after that,
all communication with the CoS ended. One phone call from the tc account
holder requesting the backup data was received by the computing support
staff. This request was also denied. That was the last communication with
the account holder."

http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/scientology/anon/penet.html

It is clear that an LAPD fraud investigation officer forced Rummelhart's
name out of Cal Tech and gave it to scientology. Rummelhart was obviously
confronted and put under pressure to try to get his files on CalTech's
computer restored from tape and returned to the cult.

After this episode, of course, he would never be trusted or permitted to be
on staff. He had been granted the highest level security clearance for
working on the computers, yet he had been exposed as a major SP. (Anyone
who gets upper management's shorts in a knot qualifies as a major SP.)

There was a good deal of speculation and worry at the time that he might
have been imprisoned in the RPF or even killed. A good number of months
later he was reported as having been located in the New England area but I
don't believe anyone has ever spoken to him. Apparently he was thrown out,
though he might have been held as a prisoner for a long time. (The cult
just does that, and people are so terrorized by the experience they seldom
talk before the statute of limitations runs out. The hideous abuse of TF
being a case on point.)

So far this is a recap of what we already knew or had guessed right. What
we *didn't* know (or at least *I* didn't know) was that the people around
-AB- in INCOMM were also abused. They were blamed for not detecting an
SP! Some were sent to the RPF, a few of those most remote from -AB- were
kept because otherwise the computers would have been shut down, a bunch of
them went to "lower" sea orgs like FB and PAC Estates after a few months of
house arrest. Those in the RPF were in for various lengths of time, some
for years, and one of them may be there to this day. None of the tossed
INCOMM people ever went back to INCOMM. However this information was
obtained, I got the impression it had been known for a *long* time. Perhaps
NSA's interest in the cult didn't end in 1977 and they *did* have a fly on
the wall. Or perhaps people who were there have since talked to the Feds
like Jesse Prince did.

Thomas Gerard Rummelhart if you are reading a.r.s, I would *love* to hear
from you. The phone here is 905-844-6216. If you feel email is better, my
PGP key is on the servers, but the servers seem to be acting up lately so I
will append it here.

What bothers me is that people in the government had detailed knowledge of
scientology attempting to frame Tom Klemesrud for murder just like
scientology had successfully framed Paulette Cooper for bomb threats back
in the 70s. They did get Tom falsely arrested and later manipulated (or
outright corrupted) a small claims court to provide Ms Blood with a cover
justification and a Federal court (Judge Whyte) so none of this was
exposed. When -AB- reported the cult's "shore story" of the operation
against Tom, they manipulated Interpol, the Finnish police, the Los Angeles
Police Department, and through them Cal Tech in a private prosecution to
get him. When they located their target, brutal coercion was applied to
him. It just amazes me that the US government would let scientology
brazenly commit crimes and usurp the government's function of investigation
and prosecution even in those days when there was a rule against
investigating scientology. (Of course, the government never charged anyone
for manipulating the FBI and a grand jury into indicting Paulette Cooper
either.)

We are talking about events now more than 7 years in the past. There might
be people who could confirm this story who have since left the cult. I
can't offer a speck of proof myself and in fact the entire business of
being south of the US border seems quite bizarre.

Keith Henson

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>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 1dJzbQEI354=
=qjCK
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

ptsc

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 9:18:22 AM4/28/02
to
On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:11:15 GMT, "bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote:

>You guys are all really wonderful, and wow!! I couldn't have asked for more
>feedback.

>I am consulting with a director friend now, and he has been consulting with
>some financiers on this project. We belong to a large group of closely
>connected independent filmmakers, actors, directors,writers, etc who would
>only become more dedicated as harassment intensified. These people, the
>CoS, should understand that they operate within US borders, and this country
>and its citizens and artists are NOT the type of people you try to push
>around. All that would succeed in doing is making people more dedicated to
>the project, and completely backfire in their face. As followers of LRH
>(himself a hack of an artist), they should have an understanding of the
>veracious tenacity of a determined artist or group of artists.

Really, check out what the people who made another film called "The Profit"
had to deal with. You should be closely connected to a good LAWYER
before you even THINK of doing something like this.

And note--beware of IATSE. They whore for Scientology on demand.

From: kngp...@aol.com (Kng Peter)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: The Profit: Scientology and Art
Lines: 142
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com
X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
Date: 31 Oct 2000 00:46:51 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <20001030194651...@ng-bk1.aol.com>


According to L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology founder and sole guru of it's
GroupThink, the artists of society are it's dream makers, blazing a pathway for
the rest of mankind, and are to be treasured and valued for their contribution.
In practice, Scientology treats artists in a different fashion than
advertised, as reflected in their actions against Courage Productions film "The
Profit" over the last few months.

"The Profit," directed by myself and produced by Patricia Greenway, was filmed
in the Tampa Bay area this summer. I can't tell you a lot about the film just
yet except to say that some of the raw footage is amongst the most powerful and
beautiful ever filmed. If you are interested, take a look at the web site
(currently under construction) at www.theprofit.org. In any event, the film,
in the universal opinion of those who have seen the dailies, appears to be a
work of fine art.

I should also point out that it is a work of art produced and directed by two
people, who in their spare time, are board members of the Lisa McPherson Trust,
a watchdog group over the Scientologists.

Needless to say, the Scientologist hate Patricia and I and so, without ever
actually knowing what the film we were making was about, the Scientologists
attacked us.

They began on August 31, appearing at our filming location, passing out fliers
to cast, crew members which intimated (they don't have the guts to come out and
say anything-they just sneakily imply) that Patricia and I were neo-Nazis and
Klu Klux Klan members. Our crew immediately brought us these fliers, and we
all had a good laugh since I am half-Jewish. One of my friends pointed out
that this made me the one and only Hebrew Knight of the Klu Klux Klan!

Within a few days the Scientologists sent no less than seven private
investigators to spy upon us at another location. Some succeeded in video
taping our cast while we filmed a scene on a dock. Our crew mooned them in
response.

The Scientologists then began to take down the license numbers of our cast and
crew, and followed several single women (brave souls these Scientologists) to
their homes, attempting to intimidate them. The Scientologists found, to their
chagrin, that even employees we had terminated for cause remained loyal to us.
One such young lady testified in court that she considered the Scientologists
visit to be a threat, and that she was frightened by them, but that since she
knew about the evil of this group (not by her connection with us, but because
they had previously destroyed a friend of hers) she was well prepared to deal
with them.

Several days later the Scientologists showed up at our soundstage and gave a
video tape to our crew members. The tape was labeled "seeing this tape could
cost you your job!" Of course, our film crew immediately brought us this tape,
which we all watched together, and again we enjoyed a good laugh (it included
scenes of Patricia and I picketing the cult). The general consensus amongst
the crew was that Patricia and I were much too kind to the Scientologists, and
that we should step up the action!

Finally, one evening the Scientologists showed up at a motel where we were
filming. A couple of local boys--big old rednecks with beers in their
hands--said they would dearly love to go kick the Scientologists ass. (We
restrained them.) At the same time, one of the members of our crew (who
happens to be gay) mooned the Scientologists again, while he wore a t-shirt
which said (on one side) "Xenu is my lover!" and (on the other side) "Save the
body thetans." I marveled at the ability of this strange cult to bring
together such disparate elements as beer totin' Good Old Boys and Gay
Activists. Maybe there is some value to this cult after all, as they truly
seem to have a unique power to create a Rainbow Coalition of just about every
type of good natured person arrayed against them?

And then, as suddenly as they appeared, the Scientologists disappeared.

Then, just as suddenly, out of town agitators for the IATSE (stage hands) union
showed up and threw up an illegal "organizing" picket line. (This is against
the National Labor Relations Board rules.) Without ever once asking for a
meeting with us, they struck our non-Union film and refused to let their
(twelve) union members cross the picket line. Nine of the twelve union members
were heartbroken, because they had all checked with their union prior to the
start of filming, and had been given permission to work on our non-Union film.
Some came to us in tears, but they all said they had to quit or they would
never be allowed to work again at their chosen profession.

We wondered if there was a connection between the sudden union attack and the
withdrawal of the Scientologists? We spoke to one reporter who believed that
there might be such a connection. He indicated that he had evidence that a top
union leader was connected to the Cleveland Mafia. He also said that he had
evidence that one of the Scientology law firms had also represented a Mafia
family, and that this might be the connection. We have no way of knowing
whether this is true, because we try to spend our time creating art, and not
digging up dirt on people, but it's an interesting idea.

In any event, the strike failed to stop the film, and we quickly resumed
shooting after replacing the union crew members.

Towards the end of the filming, a local news reporter, Kelly Swope did a TV
news piece on the strange doings of the Scientologists and the union. After
airing the news piece, Kelly reported to us that she was continually followed
by Scientology PI's and that the cult had bombarded her news editor with
propaganda--all to no effect.

The Scientologists failed to stop the film from being shot, but after filming
was complete they stooped to even lower, slimier tactics. An "anonymous" party
sent our insurance carrier a letter, indicating that they were part of a
"religion" which would create trouble for the insurance company. This letter
was anonymous, because-of course-it is both a violation of Florida insurance
regulations and a tort to interfere with or threaten a carrier to drop a
client. The cult then followed up this anonymous letter with a package of
public record court information-again targeted at the insurance company and
designed to induce our carrier to drop us. Of course, neither the anonymous
letter nor the information packet succeeded in it's goal.

Meanwhile, the "Foundation for Religious Tolerance"--a Scientology front
group-- continued to contact our former crew members, attempting to get someone
to gripe about their treatment during their employment with us. Naturally,
several members of our crew (all of them interestingly, union people who had
been forced to quit) contacted us after turning away the Scientologists empty
handed.

The Scientologists also visited the owners of several locations at which we had
filmed, trying to develop bad blood between us and the property owners. Again,
they failed totally, as several property owners reported their actions to us.

While their attempts to stop "The Profit" so far appear to be the flat-footed,
comic opera antics of a bunch of clowns, we believe that the more the
Scientologists fail, the more desperately they will try to destroy us. As time
goes by the attacks will become more desperate, more vicious, and more evil.
By the time we are done, the true face of Scientology will be revealed: an evil
cult that hates artists, and indeed, hates all those who practice free,
creative expression.

I'll keep you posted on all this as we go: it should get very, very
interesting.


Peter Alexander

ptsc

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 9:19:02 AM4/28/02
to
On Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:11:15 GMT, "bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote:

>You guys are all really wonderful, and wow!! I couldn't have asked for more
>feedback.

Oh, and since I'm commenting on this, I'd suggest you do something
like this in Canada, with a Canadian corporation, with all copyrights
locked up safely. The cult will try to sue you out of existence and then
seize the film as an asset.

ptsc

bullDOG

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 10:12:53 AM4/28/02
to
This idea is dead. The film will not be made (as small and unseen as it may
have ever been).

It is not worth it to me to put family and friends through any sort of
harassment. My concerns for myself generally come second to friends, family
and community - an ideal which I wish was shared by more humans.

I have no need to endanger anyone I know for a silly documentary, which was
mostly intended to be a light-hearted view of something which I had no idea
could be so serious. I live my life to bring hope and laughter to others,
never pain or punishment. I could not bear the idea that my actions might
harm others, it is against my nature.

As a buddhist, I firmly believe that violence is an answer for nothing. I
read an article on here about someone laughing because they saw a
Scientology woman hurt herself while trying to get around him. This is
horrible. Whether you agree with her or not, she is a woman, a person like
you. She has a history, she has feelings, and she has a life. Why
disrespect this? She could be a very beautiful person and a good friend,
rather than another resentment. I pity anyone who disrespects the life and
feelings of their fellow humans, because resentment is a powerful and
destructive disease.

I am deeply saddened and disturbed by all that I have read. Seems that our
world is so full of pain, hatred, resentment, war and great isolation and
warped selfishness. We seem to live in times of great darkness. But there
is one universal truth which has been echoed throughout every religion,
every philosophy, and even the sciences. For every negative, there must
also be a positive. I leave you, and will continue to search for this great
positive. I have no interest in ever making a film that will only bring
more darkness to this world. Sorry for my rambling speech, as pathetic as
it is.

I wish all of you great happiness, including those currently involved in
Scientology.

Best Wishes,
Mark A.

>
>


ptsc

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 10:36:17 AM4/28/02
to
On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:12:53 GMT, "bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote:

>This idea is dead. The film will not be made (as small and unseen as it may
>have ever been).

>It is not worth it to me to put family and friends through any sort of
>harassment. My concerns for myself generally come second to friends, family
>and community - an ideal which I wish was shared by more humans.

That's good. Not that a film won't get made that could have been good,
but that you got the information you needed to make a decision. It wouldn't
do to start a project like that and then get harassed viciously without
expecting it, and have to stop after having put time and money into it.

>I have no need to endanger anyone I know for a silly documentary, which was
>mostly intended to be a light-hearted view of something which I had no idea
>could be so serious. I live my life to bring hope and laughter to others,
>never pain or punishment. I could not bear the idea that my actions might
>harm others, it is against my nature.

>As a buddhist, I firmly believe that violence is an answer for nothing. I
>read an article on here about someone laughing because they saw a
>Scientology woman hurt herself while trying to get around him. This is
>horrible. Whether you agree with her or not, she is a woman, a person like
>you. She has a history, she has feelings, and she has a life. Why
>disrespect this? She could be a very beautiful person and a good friend,
>rather than another resentment. I pity anyone who disrespects the life and
>feelings of their fellow humans, because resentment is a powerful and
>destructive disease.

That guy was Garry Scarff, and so you know, he is not representative
of people around here. He is generally considered a scumbag.

ptsc

Howard Edmunds

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 11:12:39 AM4/28/02
to
Kymus wrote:
>
> >From: Howard Edmunds hedm...@appleonline.net
>
> >Koyaanaskatsi?
>
> Ah yes, thank you.
>
> > Philip Glass a scientologist??
>
> Maybe not now, I don't know. He did achieve Scientology "OT" status, but that
> doesn't mean he is still in it and loyal to the evil dwarf trolls who are
> running it.

Quite. I had a little rummage through google this morning. It only
threw up some tenuous and non-current links.

> Would it help if I assured you that he was one of the people on
> the outer fringe, who thought he was getting into something where everyone
> would be real nice to each other and anyone being nasty to Scientology just
> needed to be given an appropriate Hello Kitty gift and a little chat?

<laugh> very likely. Were he 'active' or an IAS patron, doubtless he'd
be valuable 'poster fodder' and have a higher cos profile.


>
> One of the key facts about Scientology is its "onion" structure. There are
> layers and layers until you get to the core. The core is what is discussed
> here mostly and on the webs. The nice soft and pleasant outer rind is rarely
> given much public attention.

Indeedy.


>
> Don't freak. Phil ain't a baddy.

No, well not in my book anyway - it was just one of those momentary
little hot flushes of cognitive dissonance.

Howard
--
"I could dream about being Bugs Bunny,
but when I woke up I was Daffy Duck.": Chuck Jones

Revd Norle Enturbulata

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 12:18:49 PM4/28/02
to

"Dave Bird" <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tyF550E$B0y8...@xemu.demon.co.uk...

> In article<neGy8.66816$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, bullDOG
> <nowa...@nospam.com> writes:
> >You guys are all really wonderful, and wow!! I couldn't have asked for
more
> >feedback.
> >
> >I am consulting with a director friend now, and he has been consulting
with
> >some financiers on this project. We belong to a large group of closely
> >connected independent filmmakers, actors, directors,writers, etc who
would
> >only become more dedicated as harassment intensified. These people, the
> >CoS, should understand that they operate within US borders, and this
country
> >and its citizens and artists are NOT the type of people you try to push
> >around.
>
> Wrong answer: US courts are corrupt as fuck, and have a long
> record of doing whatever Cof$cum ask them to. You should
> try Britain (they have rarely got very far in British courts),
> or Canada.

In Britain the courts are for SALE, if not constructed just for the purposes
of keeping the status quo in power. Gimme a break. They're what
$cientology is making the court system in the US into. Guess they've
learned from the masters. Pleeze.

--
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* Insert Xenu pamphlets into $cientology
* books being sold everywhere! It's fun!

Dave Bird

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 12:42:44 PM4/28/02
to
In article<aah7d9$e65$1...@helle.btinternet.com>, Revd Norle Enturbulata

<noteart...@norhotmail.com> writes:
>"Dave Bird" <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:tyF550E$B0y8...@xemu.demon.co.uk...
>> In article<neGy8.66816$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, bullDOG
>> <nowa...@nospam.com> writes:
>> >You guys are all really wonderful, and wow!! I couldn't have asked for
>more
>> >feedback.
>> >
>> >I am consulting with a director friend now, and he has been consulting
>with
>> >some financiers on this project. We belong to a large group of closely
>> >connected independent filmmakers, actors, directors,writers, etc who
>would
>> >only become more dedicated as harassment intensified. These people, the
>> >CoS, should understand that they operate within US borders, and this
>country
>> >and its citizens and artists are NOT the type of people you try to push
>> >around.
>>
>> Wrong answer: US courts are corrupt as fuck, and have a long
>> record of doing whatever Cof$cum ask them to. You should
>> try Britain (they have rarely got very far in British courts),
>> or Canada.
>
>In Britain the courts are for SALE,

This is simply not true. Scientology has had very little success
in the UK courts. It's no good if I see a man with his head chopped
off, and mine isn't, to reply "you're the one with your head
chopped off." It's just insane to say "yahboo you are" without
looking at the facts.

>if not constructed just for the purposes
>of keeping the status quo in power. Gimme a break. They're what
>$cientology is making the court system in the US into. Guess they've
>learned from the masters. Pleeze.

--

Revd Norle Enturbulata

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 9:10:46 PM4/28/02
to

"Dave Bird" <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Z1KEILCE...@xemu.demon.co.uk...

I didn't say the cult was buying the courts in the UK. I was saying that
the courts are already bought and paid for already, and not by the cult.

Dave Bird

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 9:36:19 PM4/28/02
to
In article<FrTy8.70635$CH.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, bullDOG

<nowa...@nospam.com> writes:
>This idea is dead. The film will not be made (as small and unseen as it may
>have ever been).
>It is not worth it to me to put family and friends through any sort of
>harassment. My concerns for myself generally come second to friends, family
>and community - an ideal which I wish was shared by more humans.
>I have no need to endanger anyone I know for a silly documentary, which was
>mostly intended to be a light-hearted view of something which I had no idea
>could be so serious. I live my life to bring hope and laughter to others,
>never pain or punishment. I could not bear the idea that my actions might
>harm others, it is against my nature.

Well, that's up to you. What you proposed was like doing a documentary
on the klu-klux klan, islamic funnymentalists, or an active mafia
crime family. We are talking about evil destructive scum that don't
want the truth told about them, and will try to stop you doing so.

I'm sorry you didn't realise this, but either you have the balls as
a reporter to take on dangerous criminals or this game is not for you.


I was also serious in saying you have no chance in America where the
cult have thoroughly corrupted things, but should try either
in Canada or Northern Europe. Obviously I would like you to have tried
and succeeded in this project, but I wouldn't want you to do it
half-cocked, fail, and get hurt in the process.

>
>As a buddhist, I firmly believe that violence is an answer for nothing. I
>read an article on here about someone laughing because they saw a
>Scientology woman hurt herself while trying to get around him. This is
>horrible. Whether you agree with her or not, she is a woman, a person like
>you. She has a history, she has feelings, and she has a life. Why
>disrespect this? She could be a very beautiful person and a good friend,
>rather than another resentment. I pity anyone who disrespects the life and
>feelings of their fellow humans, because resentment is a powerful and
>destructive disease.


--
"Mr Minton was questioned by attorney's for the dead woman's family
on three areas where the cult may have threatened him with lawsuit
or prosecution, but there was only one upon which he took the fifth
amendment: whether Cof$ threatened to report him for tax evasion."
alt.religion.scientology<tTDpR5Il...@xemu.demon.co.uk>2002apr28

Keith Henson

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 10:13:40 PM4/28/02
to
On Sun, 28 Apr 2002 02:23:19 GMT, hkhe...@cogeco.ca (Keith Henson)
wrote:

>The whole story is a saga that would take longer than the Fellowship
>of the Ring as a movie. May I suggest you consider it in small bites?

Here is another bite. If this is not enough, it could be expanded by
adding the often reposted deposition where DM rants about being
publicly buggered by the 1.1 club. If that is not enough, we could
add my solo picket at gold base the previous day. (I can just *see*
shooting on location. You might get scientology to supply real
bugf*ck guards for free.)

It is way fuzzy now, but I think this version was produced after calls
from the advertizing people at GM who were at the time trying to
figure out if this adventure could be used to sell Geo Metros (sub
compact 3 cylinder cars.) The final conclusion after their
advertizing people had looked over a faxed copy of this article was
that their minds could just not comprehend an ad where a *Geo* was
being used as a "Dukes of Hazzards" vehicle.

*********************

3. Wogs at Cause by Keith Henson [Car chases and other modern
courtroom phenomena--adapted from the version published in Biased
Journalism]

[Glossary notes: "Wog" is a derogatory term scientologists use for
non scientologists. The next step up (when you start taking their
expensive "courses" i.e., brainwashing) is "raw meat." Scientology
claims, but never delivers, to release your "Operating thetan"
powers--where you are supposed to obtain "spiritual power" over MEST,
i.e., matter, energy, space and time, or in scientology's arcane
jargon, you are supposed to be "at cause" over MEST. Scientologist
are known as "clams" on the net because Hubbard claimed (in _History
of Man_, also known as _What to Audit_) that humans are descended from

clams, not to mention sloths, and the fraudulent Piltdown man.]

Background: Scientology started duking it out with the Internet free
speech activists in January of 1995 when their lawyer Helena Kobrin
issued an rmgroup to destroy a small but active usenet news group,
alt.religion.scientology. a.r.s was quickly restored on the machines
where the rmgroup had taken effect and rapidly increased in popularity

till it was one of the most read groups on the net.

Shortly thereafter, "Religious Technology Center" (a scientology
front) sued a critical former "minister" of scientology, Dennis
Erlich, Tom Klemesrud (owner of Dennis's ISP, support.com) and Netcom,

which provided support.com with connection to the Internet. Dennis
was raided under a civil search warrant and Tom was subjected to a
bizarre "blood attack" by a woman who claimed her hemorrhoids were the

source of blood splattered five feet up on Tom's walls.

Over a year later RTC sued a well known internet personality Grady
Ward who had been taunting them on a.r.s. The premise for the suit
was that he was the elusive "SCAMIZDAT" who had been posting their
trade secret/copyrighted comic book "scriptures" on the Internet. No
evidence that I know about has turned up to support this idea. Of
course, chained anonymous remailers are a bit hard to trace no matter
who or what group was doing this.

My involvement came about when I took a look at some of this material
and wrote a letter to the Federal Judge in Grady's case asking if he
really intended to allow the use of copyright and trade secret laws to

keep *criminal instruction manuals* (about the illegal practice of
quack medicine with their "emeters") from public view. When no
response was forthcoming from the Judge, I posted the letter, which
included as an example a document, NOTs 34, THE SEQUENCE FOR HANDLING
A PHYSICAL CONDITION. Scientology (RTC) responded by suing me.

In the mean time, a fatal example of scientology's "medical treatment"

has come to light, the Lisa McPherson case. Lisa died of dehydration
while in the hands of Scientology, and there are a number of web sites

with all the gruesome details, including pictures of her hands,
covered with what the medical examiner called cockroach bites. (See
http://www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/lisa.htm)

Lisa McPherson's story has been on three US TV news shows (Inside
Edition twice) and was featured on a German show. A rumor has it that

Lisa Marie Presley is paying for the civil and criminal defenses of
the cult over this incident.

Lisa Marie nearly died recently. It is alleged to be because she was
subjected to one of scientology's bizarre processes. Her former
husband Michael Jackson collapsed after the same "treatment," which is

supposed to "sweat out" toxins and drugs.

Back to the lawsuit filed against me. After a vast amount of legal
wrangling, the judges in the cases permitted the deposition of the
head of Scientology to be taken in the three cases.

Part four of the May 19-21 saga starts when Grady and I are leaving
the deposition of David Miscavige (taken in Palm Springs, California).


[Part one is the trip to Southern California, and the "bomb threat at
an airport" which scientology used to prevent lawyers being present,
part two is my picketing the cult compound at Gold Base near Hemet,
California. Part three is the deposition itself.]

***************************

The hired (and armed) bodyguard for David Miscavige walked us
down to the lobby desk where we picked up our cameras and then out to
our car. He listened with considerable interest to the tale of Lisa
McPherson and how scientology tangled with the net and how Grady and I

got mixed up in this circus.

We headed off to the north, realized we had overshot the road to
the Palm Springs airport and turned back. Since Grady's flight was
not for a few hours, and by this time it was about 1 pm, we stopped at

a deli/restaurant to have one last meal at the cult's expense.

We hadn't been in there 5 minutes when Tom Hogan [San Jose lawyer

for the cult] showed up to warn us not to post anything of substance
(hah! what substance?) from the deposition. Before Hogan showed, we
could ignore the scientology operatives who had been assigned to tail
us. We found out later they were PIs (private investigators)--I guess

they decided that they needed professionals after they had lost us
twice the day before when we were playing with them, but trying not to

lose them.

As we were driving away after lunch, we first saw only one tail,
two younger dudes in a late model car. I pulled a couple of U turns
and then pulled over to the curb. Grady jumped out and ran back to
get a picture. I nearly spilt my sides laughing as they frantically
backed up around a corner to get away from Grady. Wogs at Cause are
immune to cameras, but cameras cause scientologists, certain scumbag
lawyers, and PIs to scurry like vampires facing a cross.

After a few go arounds in some parking lots, we went south and
pulled in to a cul de sac so we could get some better pictures as they

want by. Then we went around the south edge of the airport and off to

the west, then south into an industrial park. We were playing loop
the loop through the parking lots and around backs of the buildings
when we noticed the *second* car with only an older guy in it. He
waved us over and identified himself as a PI, and told us that the
team was commissioned by the scientologists to follow us *wherever* we

went, though he would not identify himself further. His license (his
car lacked a front plate) was BAYBUMZ (California). I gave his and
the other license number to the cops later, the license for the car
the two younger guys were in can be seen in one of the photographs.
Both were late models, one blue, the other purple/blue. Since I had
the license plate numbers I didn't care what models.

After the encounter in the industrial park, we went a little
further west, then south, back to the west, and finally north on a
road which passed to the west of the airport.

I decided it would be a good idea to check the story, so we
called on the cell phone and got directions for the Palm Springs
Police Department. It was within a few blocks of the airport.

We stopped in front, went in, and Lieutenant McCabe of the Palm
Springs police came out with us and went over to talk to the older
dude who had stopped across the street from the station. In a few
minutes he was convinced that our tails were indeed PIs. Lt. McCabe
told us that PIs have what amounts to a "License to Stalk," but that
as long as we were reasonably careful with the traffic laws, we were
welcome to lose them.

This sounded like an interesting challenge to me, but Grady
figured we had about run this episode into the ground, and in any
case, he had only an hour before he needed to check in.

I dropped Grady at the Palm Springs airport about 2:30 and
considered "what next" because it seemed to me there was more life in
this adventure somewhere. I looped out of the airport, followed
closely by my tails, drove by the Palm Springs Police Station and
continued on south to Hwy 111, and then southeast about ten miles to
the Embassy Suites--where we had stayed the previous night. I figured

that was one of the few places which would take me seriously about
there being three scientology operatives on my tail, since they knew
of the activities of the previous night.

The PIs stayed right with me, one ahead, and one behind. The one

behind ran red lights so they would always have two cars close to
mine. I stopped at three service stations before I found one who
would jack up the car and take a look under it for a locator bug like
Steve Fishman reported on his car some time ago. No luck. I was
really hoping I could take one off and get the cult charged for it,
but this must have been the economy tail. Incidentally, the owner of
the second service station would not even consider looking under my
car because of (I think unjustified) stark fear of Scientologists.

Next to the Embassy Suites is a Lucky's (giant grocery store) and

row of shops. I pulled in there and picked up another disposable
camera and some bottled water. Tossed the water in the car, unwrapped

the camera and went behind the row of shops. Being careful with the
camera, I jumped down a two meter retaining wall and went into the
lobby of the hotel. (Actually the way I went down the wall was not
one mighty leap, as I might have done in my youth, but dropping down
holding onto the top of the wall.) You can see the wall in one of the

webbed photographs. (www.best.com/~dkeith/pics)

A *lot* happened in the next two hours. I told the desk clerk
what was up, being tailed by three scientology operatives. They knew
about the previous evening, and insisted on calling the cops. One of
the desk clerks offered to go get my car from the lot next door. So I

gave him the key, after warning him the operatives would not be happy.

They weren't. He came back somewhat bug eyed with this tale of being
stopped by the PIs who insisted on knowing who he was and what he was
doing with the car--thus providing the cops who came by later with a
third party verification.

Both of the cops who showed up happened to be women. The first
one, with the Riverside Sheriff's department (sorry I did not get
either of their names), was only about 5 feet tall, but solid. *I*
sure wouldn't want to tangle with her. The second, a somewhat thin
blond woman, was with the Palm Desert Police. Excellent professional
behavior from both of them, in what must have seemed a *thoroughly*
nutty but potentially dangerous situation. Of course Palm Desert is a

*rich* community, and you expect top grade policing.

I spent most of the time before the first cop showed up and some
of it afterwards talking to the local newspaper and TV station. Both
reporters I talked to were drooling over the chance to do a local
"slow speed chase" on camera/photographs but it was too near deadline.

Sigh, I even offered to lead the PIs through the TV station's parking
lot so they could just poke a camera out a window. Well, the regular
media loses again, and you get it hot on the net.

(A few weeks after this happened I was reading Scott Adams' new
book, *The Dilbert Future.* Prediction 52, "In the future, everyone
will be a news reporter," really hit home. Downsizing has left the
traditional news sources with no resources to report the unexpected.
If you happen to be wondering why news is so dull that a significant
part of the population no longer keeps up with news at all, you now
know.)

I mentioned to both the cops and the media that I was not
thrilled at two hours on the road going back in the direction of LA
while being tailed by scientology operatives--and related the Scarff
affidavit where Scarff was told in scientology lawyer Moxon's office
how he should run the president of the Cult Awareness Network, Cynthia

Kisser, off the road and kill her. (Not that I *really* expected such

of hired PIs. Killing citizens must be cause to lose a license; but
you never can tell--and there is nothing which forbids PI licenses to
scientologists.)

This went on to about 5:30 and it became clear that the media
could not fit the story in--the days of "Stop the Presses" are long
gone. It was also obvious that cops could do nothing. I had kind of
hoped that the local laws in Palm Desert might be a little more
restrictive on out of town PIs or maybe they could informally hang
onto these dudes long enough for me to get a head start on them, but
this seems to be beyond the rules. I presume they did locate the
three and talk to them because they confirmed again to me that the
three tailing me were PIs, and apparently the PIs told such a tale of
a dangerous "Wog at Cause" that the first cop felt the need to pat me
down. (At the stop where I had the car checked for bugs, I did advise

the older one that he might want to read up on what a wild character
he was following and he wrote down the title [Great Mambo Chicken and
the Transhuman Condition] I gave him.)

ACTION!

The cops are not pleased by my speculation on how to shake the
PIs by a high speed chase on the roads north of Palm Desert up to the
freeway. Even if nobody gets hurt, the idea of all four of us being
jailed for speeding doesn't appeal to me either. The exchange ratio
of three fines/jail terms to one is definitely too low to be properly
at cause. As I walk out the door with the car key in my hand, a very
worried cop (the second one) wants to know what I am going to do. I
tell her the truth, "I don't know," and leave.

Now, to understand what happens next, you need a picture of the
layout of the Embassy Suites. It is on a chunk of land with a
relatively narrow frontage on Hwy 111 and a very deep lot. Behind the
Embassy Suites is an old palm grove about 300 meters deep and at least
that wide. My car is facing toward the back of the hotel (the lobby
is in the middle facing west). I figured I will drive around the back
of the hotel since the car is pointed in that direction. Since I have
a full tank, and the GEO gets excellent milage, perhaps I can run them
out of gas on the mountain roads south and west of Palm Desert.

When I reach the end of the paved section at the back of the
hotel there is no curb and a faint track where tractors had been in to
plow under the weeds and fallen palm fronds. Seeing this, I make an
instant decision. In a long ago and far away phase of my life I drove
off road for thousands of miles. So, figuring the worst that could
happen would be that I would get stuck, and at best *they* would get
stuck, I drive out into the sand at all of 15 mph.

Fifty yards out into the palm grove, I realize the grove is
surrounded on three sides by a 8-10 foot high concrete block wall.
Hoping for a break in the far right corner behind some thick trees, I
head that way. Alas, there is no opening *anywhere* in the back wall.
So I veer away plowing through sand and over fallen palm fronds like a
small boat in a choppy sea. If GMC needs a testimonial from a verrry
satisfied customer about the handling characteristics of a GEO in deep
sand, I'm their man.

Ah, did the media miss a golden opportunity! One, two, or three
cars throwing up sand like giant demented blue lizards! I don't know
if they followed me. I couldn't look back for fear of wrapping my
lizard around one of the palms. The tape would be a treasure,
especially if one of the PI's cars followed me into the deep sand and
got stuck.

Dodging palms, bucking and rolling and not daring to stop because
the car would get stuck, I make a huge U turn inside the wall through
the sand and palm frond mix. If there was a locator bug stuck under
the car it might have been scraped off. Near the end of the wall
(which is perhaps 300 meters back from Hwy 111, the surface smooths
out. As I go beyond the end of the wall I see a cul de sac with a
sloping curb.

A fishtail turn behind the wall and I am back on pavement. There
are some small office buildings ahead. I make a right, a left, go
around the end of one of them and park under a sun shade next to some
other cars. I jump out and hide inside a dumpster enclosure where I
can watch my car. I am half expecting them to drive up with a
directional antenna--no point in trying to shake them if there is a
locator bug stuck under the car. Memories of the chase sequence from
Eric Frank Russell's classic SF novel "Wasp" where the protagonist
parks and lets the Secret Police go by are flashing in my head.

It is hot, I won't be able to stay here long. Less than 20
seconds go by, crouched down and looking out the crack between the
gates, and what looks like the car with the two younger dudes goes
blasting through the parking lot past right in front of me going way
too fast. They pass within 15 feet of my car. It is clearly visible,
palm fronds hanging out behind it, but since it is parked, they ignore
it. After they pass, I peep out over the top of the enclosure. They
stop at Cook, a main road, 50 meters beyond where I am watching them.
I have vanished! They look wildly around for ten to fifteen seconds,
and then tear off to the north. I don't see the car with the older
guy in it, perhaps he followed me into the sand and got stuck.

Back to my car, pull out the palm fronds which are stuck around
the tail pipe and follow them north on Cook, turning east at the next
major intersection and then north through a housing development (hard
to find, most Palm Desert housing in that end of town is in gated
communities.)

Eventually I come out on a street I can find on my not-very-
detailed map, go further east and north and find Interstate 10. The
rest is an uneventful drive back to Ontario [California]. When I go
by Hwy 79, which leads back to Gold Base and Hemet, I am *sorely*
tempted to make the side trip and picket them again. But, as much "at
cause" over clams and clam PIs as this wog is, I remind myself that
this is, after all, only a hobby and Real Life (tm) calls.

---Keith Henson

Dave Bird

unread,
Apr 28, 2002, 9:42:27 PM4/28/02
to
In article<aai6il$515$1...@knossos.btinternet.com>, Revd Norle Enturbulata

<noteart...@norhotmail.com> writes:
>> >In Britain the courts are for SALE,
>>
>> This is simply not true. Scientology has had very little success
>> in the UK courts. It's no good if I see a man with his head chopped
>> off, and mine isn't, to reply "you're the one with your head
>> chopped off." It's just insane to say "yahboo you are" without
>> looking at the facts.
>
>I didn't say the cult was buying the courts in the UK. I was saying that
>the courts are already bought and paid for already, and not by the cult.

Yes, but it is still bollocks. There are failings in both legal
systems. In Britain, government interests get away with too much,
and there is not the same strong guarantee of free speech. But
you don't win just because you are a wealthy corporation.

--
FUCK THE SKULL OF HUBBARD, AND BUGGER THE DWARF HE RODE IN ON!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8====3 (O 0) GROETEN --- PRINTZ XEMU EXTRAWL no real OT has
|n| (COMMANDER, FIFTH INVADER FORCE) ever existed

Scientology's inquisition loses points every time Ron, Davey, or
the tech are malinged: hence this sig.Whoops, that's another -25!

Revd Norle Enturbulata

unread,
Apr 29, 2002, 6:12:16 PM4/29/02
to

"Dave Bird" <da...@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:QMbWWXGD...@xemu.demon.co.uk...

> In article<aai6il$515$1...@knossos.btinternet.com>, Revd Norle Enturbulata
> <noteart...@norhotmail.com> writes:
> >> >In Britain the courts are for SALE,
> >>
> >> This is simply not true. Scientology has had very little success
> >> in the UK courts. It's no good if I see a man with his head chopped
> >> off, and mine isn't, to reply "you're the one with your head
> >> chopped off." It's just insane to say "yahboo you are" without
> >> looking at the facts.
> >
> >I didn't say the cult was buying the courts in the UK. I was saying that
> >the courts are already bought and paid for already, and not by the cult.
>
> Yes, but it is still bollocks. There are failings in both legal
> systems. In Britain, government interests get away with too much,
> and there is not the same strong guarantee of free speech. But
> you don't win just because you are a wealthy corporation.

Tell that the DTI! Phooey!

--
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*

Comedy Saves!
$cientology Enslaves!


Fluffygirl

unread,
Apr 30, 2002, 5:12:38 PM4/30/02
to

"bullDOG" <nowa...@nospam.com> wrote in message

I am currently a Scn'ist, as well as having been expelled by CofS- twice.
Second time is final since I will not apply for reentry into CofS.

>Objectivity requires it. Plus,
> we might find some interesting folks to talk with. We'd really like to
take
> an open stance on this one... no condascending questions, just free
> chit-chat with the members. Are Sea Org members really only paid
$45/week?

I actually heard it's a bit less. They are a religious order and get room
and board as well.

Now, that would be a party line way to phase it. A real party line Scn'ist
would point out that nuns wouldn't be raking in the dough, either. But I, of
course, NOT being party line, will also point out that there are a lot of
things wrong with the Sea Org and that it's light years away from being as
user friendly as your modern convent or monastery.


> We'd put that in there. We'll also be trying to find some "volunteers" or
> whatever they call them - the volunteer doctor people who run around
> assisting people with mental and physical illness.

"Volunteer Ministers". Many CofS members are volunteer ministers. CofS staff
members, CofS "public" (not on staff but part of CofS). Lots.

>
> * Interviews with ex-members of the cult. We'd like to find some people
who
> might be interested in participating in this documentary. We would
probably
> include critics in this section - is it possible to communicate with
people
> like Bob Minton and the founder of xenu.net? We'd also be putting some
info
> about this newsgroup, its existence and role possibly.

I am a critic and a Scn'ist. (tastes great! less filling!)

> * We thought it might be great to include the story of Xenu in the film.
> But it seems so absurd, we're not sure if people would buy it (not sure if
I
> really buy it yet... I mean, do they really believe that?). If the
audience
> didn't accept the idea, it'd make the film look silly, like we were just
> trying to call Scientologists a bunch of "Heavens Gate"-type wackos, which
> is not our goal.

No offense, but some of the things you've said about the humor and the
bizarre elements in the situation sort of make it sound like you kind of
~are~ interested in taking that particular approach.

It is not objectionable to me, but I think that there's a pretty good chance
you are looking askance at the organization AND at the philosophy with some
degree of incredulity, and inevitably, one imagines that this will come
across in any work you produce.

I don't think this has to be automatically detrimental, though, since it
also appears that you are interested in presenting the viewpoint of actual
Scn'ists as well, thus giving another side to the coin.

>
> * I still don't really believe that Tom Cruise and John Travolta are
really
> members of CoS.

Oh, they are. They say so all the time. As controversial as Scn is, and as
CofS is, I really can't imagine anyone who wasn't a member wanting to say
they were one since every now and again the occasional heckler does show up
and say or write some critical things about Cruise and Travolta for that
reason and that reason alone- because of their membership in CofS.

Celebrities are pretty sensitive about PR and are unlikely to say they are
members of groups that receive mostly bad PR.


>But we'll put that in there, too. It'd be great from a
> film-making perspective. Show how film-makers, actors, directors,
basically
> Hollywood was involved in the whole evolution of Scientology.
>
> * Lastly... the effects of Scientology on Clearwater, Florida. This would
> be beautiful. And it would speak for itself, I think.
>
> * We also considered putting footage of the documentary-making process in
> the film itself. This might be kinda interesting.
>
> Anyway... just thought I'd post this and see if I could get any feedback
> from the community. So shout out at us, and let us know what you think -
> IT'S IN THE NAME OF INDEPENDENT FILM!! heh heh heh.
>
>

Sounds interesting. I didn't see a valid email address to which I could
respond, so I assume you are keeping this in usenet for the time being.

My email address is given here.

C


Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages