Here's a rant, for what it's worth...
Saucy111
sexual orientations and personal lives?
Does it really matter? Why is it such a big deal for someone to love
someone else?
Sexual orientation is not a meter for someone's worth as a human being,
be you gay, straight or somehwere in between, so why are people making
such a big deal out of it? It's the year 2006, folks, and I think it's
high time we stop making a big deal out of who's sleeping with whom.
Instead, wouldn't it be better to concentrate on the reason we're all
here? (Which to my mind is the purpose if increasing people's
awareness of the criminal, amoral, unethical actions of the Church of
Scientology and offering support and help to those who are trying to
get out from under the shadow the "church" has cast on their lives.)
Yes, Travolta is an ass. Not because he is ashamed of who he is,
that's his own problem which he'll have to deal with himself. He's an
ass because he promotes a destructive, damaging cult that does no one
any good. (The thing that shocked me the most about the pic of him
kissing that guy was not that it was a guy, but that they were in
HAMILTON. I mean, really... Romantic getaway in HAMILTON,
ONTARIO?!?!? Wtf?!?!)
Tom Cruise is an ass, not beause his kid is really hairy and he didn't
want to publish photos of her, or because he might be gay, or because
his marriage might be a sham, but because he's the mouthpiece for a
bunch of homophobic, xenophobic (heheheheh.... Xenuphobic?) greedy,
closed-minded, misogynistic "church" leaders. (I'm using xenophobic
here to mean "Fear of outsiders", not fear of other cultures.)
Ah, well, I'm sure someday the world will wake up and realize that sex
between consenting adults is just a fun thing to do that sometimes, if
conditions are right, makes more people. Maybe then we can stop being
all agog over something so trivial and start to concentrate on issues
that actually MATTER.
Ball of Fluff
"Saucy111" <sauc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157818121....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
<snip excellent text>
I mostly agree with you, Saucy, but let me just add something, from the
other point of view.
Some people who criticize Cruise, Travolta and others for being in the
closet have told me that they do so because of the hypocrisy factor.
Scn teaches it's aberrated to be gay. And TC and JT say they aren't gay,
have happy families, etc.
Some people take issue with the hypocrisy.
I get that, I do, but think they emphasize that too much. And it gets really
mean spirited sometimes.
I also saw a long time critic diss another long time critic on another forum
for being a lesbian. Like that matters.
So I suppose there's some homophobia, but the main thing I think seems to be
objection to hypocrisy.
C
Michael Pattinson
Hey A1 Saucy, have you been sleeping with those weiners again??
LOL
Seriously, though, I see your points.
I prefer also to deal with things that MATTER.
What's on your list of those please?
MP
Eldon
But it matters to JT and TC, and it matters to the Cof$ because it has
potantial for scandal and therefore leverage for coersion.
On a more more emphatic scale, why were Michael Jackson's (two)
prosecutions for child molestation so important? Why is it such a big
deal to "love" underage boys?
Well, becaise it is a big deal to a lot of people. That's why. Simple
as that.
Saucy111
> Hey A1 Saucy, have you been sleeping with those weiners again??
> LOL
> Seriously, though, I see your points.
> I prefer also to deal with things that MATTER.
> What's on your list of those please?
Thanks, Micheal... As I said: The things that should matter HERE are:
Increasing people's awareness of the criminal, amoral, unethical
actions of the Church of Scientology and offering support and help to
those who are trying to get out from under the shadow the "church" has
cast on their lives, as well as ensuring that the harmful actions of
the Church and other devotees of L.Ron Hubbard do not evade public
scrutiny.
The things that matter to me in general can be pretty much summed up in
this statement:
I am a Canadian Citizen, but if I lived in the States, I'd be a
Libertarian.
barbz
me as a member. /groucho
--
"I'm for the separation of church and hate."
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC(wdne)
xenu...@netscape.net
runningwild
Saucy111 wrote:
> What the hell is up with all this discussion in regards to people's
> sexual orientations and personal lives?
>
> Does it really matter? Why is it such a big deal for someone to love
> someone else?
<snip>
> Ah, well, I'm sure someday the world will wake up and realize that sex
> between consenting adults is just a fun thing to do that sometimes, if
> conditions are right, makes more people. Maybe then we can stop being
> all agog over something so trivial and start to concentrate on issues
> that actually MATTER.
I couldn't agree with you more. Most of the attacks on TC and JT that I
have read recently are ad hominem, which by definition are poor
arguments. Though they do make for good social satire.
There are many people who join a varity of churches to "cure" their
"gayness". If someone wants to do that more power to them and best of
luck. I think it's kooky but if someone thinks they are a straight guy
or gal trapped in a gay mind and they think they can change that just
go ahead and get on with your bad self. You have the right to fuck
yourself up as badly as you want.
If TC wants to get money for his baby's pictures instead of posting
them on a blog more power to him. I wish I could sell mine to Vanity
Fair for a few million, I could use the money.
What you are pointing out is that the group that they support has left
behind a trail of broken minds shattered by a tyranical master and
thrown out like so much garbage after all but the last drops of life
are wrung from their tortured souls.
That master, the shade of a narcissistic sociopath, so effectively
built a self purpetuating machine that it continues to lash out at
anyone even reading or viewing information critical of it.
formerlyfooled
Saucy,
I agree with the other repliers here.
I also think much of that stuff is fueled by the other alt groups
members posting here everytime the names Cruise and Travolta pop up on
this and other NG's.
They are like flies to dogpoop.
No one ever said that ARS is an organized group, much less an 'ethical
group' but posts like yours are needed to give the readers a better
perspective in the mist of that biased and gossipy chaos. Sometimes
it's just best to ignore the threads that have turned like those and do
what you are doing with this thread. Thanks for your posts.
FormerlyFooled
http://free-from-scientology.blogspot.com/
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||/
www.lermanet.com
www.xenu.net
www.silentology.com
Formerly Fooled and Finally Free From The Deceptive Cult Called
Scientology
roger gonnet
"Ball of Fluff" <getof...@fluffentology.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
45030436$1...@news2.lightlink.com...
>
> "Saucy111" <sauc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157818121....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> <snip excellent text>
>
> I mostly agree with you, Saucy, but let me just add something, from the other
> point of view.
>
> Some people who criticize Cruise, Travolta and others for being in the closet
> have told me that they do so because of the hypocrisy factor.
>
> Scn teaches it's aberrated to be gay.
They call it atrocious illness/perversion, to be rid of...
Lulu Belle
> Yes, Travolta is an ass. Not because he is ashamed of who he is,
> that's his own problem which he'll have to deal with himself. He's an
> ass because he promotes a destructive, damaging cult that does no one
> any good.
That's the point.
One reason - probably the MAJOR reason - Travolta has been able to get
away with his promiscous behavior for years was a trade off for
schilling for Scientology.
This statement from a blogger says it best:
"I am so tired of scientologists and their LAME lies. He is so gay and
everyone knows it. The minute I saw this picture, I said, "Scientology
will release a statement saying that Kelli was onboard watching the
whole thing and that he does that all of the time". They are so
predictable, it's not even funny. Nothing he says will convince me that
he is straight. He is gay and the more he denies it, the more he
disgusts me. I HATE liars and he is definitely a liar and so is his
bi*** of a wife who defends him because she is also a scientology
robot. They make me sick. I don't care if he's gay at all, but I care
that he lies about it. I hope Perez goes after him relentlessly.
"And to you scientology freaks who like to come here to defend your
fellow wackos, let me just say that you are as transparent as air and
every time you speak up, you further prove how ignorant all of you
really are. Your golden boys are gay and you're wasting a tremendous
amount of money trying to hide that fact. The most insane part of the
equation is that you are spending all that money on the very people who
are destroying your credibility. You're all morons in the most pure
sense of the word."
Beckyboo
Eldon wrote:
> This is an idealistic way to look at it.
>
> But it matters to JT and TC, and it matters to the Cof$ because it has
> potantial for scandal and therefore leverage for coersion.
>
> On a more more emphatic scale, why were Michael Jackson's (two)
> prosecutions for child molestation so important? Why is it such a big
> deal to "love" underage boys?
>
> Well, becaise it is a big deal to a lot of people. That's why. Simple
> as that.
Not quite so simple. The major difference here is being gay is
generally consent between two adults. Whereas what you referred to
above with MJ is illegal.
I don't quite understand the emphasis on the gay thing either, but in a
way, yes, it's hypocrisy if Sci-fi says it's wrong..... and hiding you
are gay abounds in our society....many people hide out in regular
marriages, politicians, etc. who are really gay, but don't want the
public to know.
I truly thought that being gay was popular now. :-) And coming out of
the closet was a thing to celebrate, not hide as much anymore. I guess
I'm jealous cause I'm not gay.
--
Becky
runningwild
Eldon wrote:
> This is an idealistic way to look at it.
>
> But it matters to JT and TC, and it matters to the Cof$ because it has
> potantial for scandal and therefore leverage for coersion.
>
Scandal? It may have been a scandal when he was Vinny Barbarino but in
2006 it is either a yawn or an opportunity.
I don't know how much OUT magizine pays for interviews but I bet he
could pick up some coin there. And didn't Ellen just sign a contract
with a travel agency that plans and books gay and lesbian focused
cruses? (Maybe it was Navratilova) The point is that it was a multi
million dollar endorsement contract.
I doubt he is getting that much to endorse scientology.
formerlyfooled
Lulu Belle, What Blogger? Where? Thanks
Ball of Fluff
barbz wrote:
<snip>
> >
> > I am a Canadian Citizen, but if I lived in the States, I'd be a
> > Libertarian.
> >
> Not me...I refuse to belong to any party that would have a person like
> me as a member. /groucho
LOL!
Ball of Fluff
Lulu Belle wrote:
> Saucy111 wrote:
>
> > Yes, Travolta is an ass. Not because he is ashamed of who he is,
> > that's his own problem which he'll have to deal with himself. He's an
> > ass because he promotes a destructive, damaging cult that does no one
> > any good.
>
>
> That's the point.
>
> One reason - probably the MAJOR reason - Travolta has been able to get
> away with his promiscous behavior for years was a trade off for
> schilling for Scientology.
>
> This statement from a blogger says it best:
>
<snip insane diatribe>
I don't think it says it best. It does touch on the hypocrisy of Cruise
and Travolta, but it goes into this stupid bigoted rant. I think the
blogger who wrote that is a fuckwit.
C
Ball of Fluff
He doesn't really need any money from CofS. He's got plenty of his own.
I think he endorses Scn cuz he likes Scn. He appears to use Scn in his
life, gets auditing, hangs out with other Scn celebs.
He does seem to want to keep his sexual orientation secret and that's a
damn shame, in this day and age, but that doesn't make him a shill.
He's more a true believer type.
Scn'ists are pushed and urged at every step to proselytize and
"disseminate". After I'd been in a year or so, I stopped doing it
completely and prior to that, had not done it much, but many church
members do proselytize frequently. Partly because they're enthused and
partly because they're nagged into doing it. Very different reasons,
but, from what I saw, both applicable ones.
So I think left to his own devices, he'd endorse it, but that CofS may
have taken a role in shutting him up about criticism that he may also
have wished to make. I think he probably did have some mild criticisms
to make and that he got shut down.
When Kirstie Alley was first in she used to say some very very mild
criticisms in public, I remember her saying sometimes CofS does some
goofy or unfair stuff, but etc, etc. I think they shut her down in a
hurry, cuz when's the last time anyone's heard her say anything along
those lines?
I also want to say that this in the closet thing isn't just something
you find in Scn celebs. I remember that when Ellen DeGeneres was making
coy jokes about being "lebanese", a good friend of mine was quite
angry.
I see a lot of hatred expressed toward Cruise and Travolta but if only
the people saying those things were more honest- what they don't like
is that these guys are CofS members and are recommending it to others.
The gay thing is just being used as an excuse to complain about these
people.
The real issue is are they using their celeb status to endorse a toxic
organization and are they doing so knowing about what really goes on
there or are they in the dark. Most people think that Scn celebs who
spend that much time at Flag couldn't possibly be in the dark about the
things CofS does to its members. I tend to lean in that direction,
myself.
And that is the real issue, as far as I'm concerned.
C
Lulu Belle
> I don't think it says it best. It does touch on the hypocrisy of Cruise
> and Travolta, but it goes into this stupid bigoted rant. I think the
> blogger who wrote that is a fuckwit.
>
> C
I don't agree.
I don't think a lot of people understand how obsessed DM has become -
and therefore taken the rest of the Sea Org with him - with
celebrities.
If you havent been in the SO during the last 20 years or so, you
wouldn't see it.
It's pretty much the main foucs of Scientology these days. I mean, look
at it. Miscavige is supposed to be running this organization; is
basically the micromanaging DICTATOR of the organization, and takes off
for weeks at a time to go on film shoots with Cruise.
Scientology is investing a HUGE HUGE HUGE amount of resources on the
whole celebrity angle. Between the money poured into CC Int and the
staff, PIs and other people used to cater to them and watch over their
interests and get them good press. Audit them, supply them with
servants, do anything and everything they need.
Keeping the staff up all night to clean the org because some stupid
celeb will be there the next day. Read the Tabayoyon affidavit about
what the staff were made to do at Gold for Kidman and Cruise. This was
not a unique experience. This shit happened and happens all the time.
And for what?
Cruise and Travolta.
"The most insane part of the equation is that you are spending all that
money on the very people who are destroying your credibility."
Spot on, if you ask me.
Ball of Fluff
Lulu Belle wrote:
> Ball of Fluff wrote:
>
> > I don't think it says it best. It does touch on the hypocrisy of Cruise
> > and Travolta, but it goes into this stupid bigoted rant. I think the
> > blogger who wrote that is a fuckwit.
> >
> > C
>
> I don't agree.
Well, I did write more on that, in response to another person,
elsewhere on this thread.
That may elucidate my position a bit, I hope.
>
> I don't think a lot of people understand how obsessed DM has become -
> and therefore taken the rest of the Sea Org with him - with
> celebrities.
Ok, I'm totally with you there.
I have thought for some time that he is pushing Cruise on this stuff.
We know they're buds, so I think that's what's happening. And I do
think DM's obsessive.
>
> If you havent been in the SO during the last 20 years or so, you
> wouldn't see it.
Right but I kind of extrapolated it.
Not as well as you would have, but I think maybe I have an idea.
>
> It's pretty much the main foucs of Scientology these days. I mean, look
> at it. Miscavige is supposed to be running this organization; is
> basically the micromanaging DICTATOR of the organization, and takes off
> for weeks at a time to go on film shoots with Cruise.
Right. Good point.
>
> Scientology is investing a HUGE HUGE HUGE amount of resources on the
> whole celebrity angle. Between the money poured into CC Int and the
> staff, PIs and other people used to cater to them and watch over their
> interests and get them good press. Audit them, supply them with
> servants, do anything and everything they need.
>
> Keeping the staff up all night to clean the org because some stupid
> celeb will be there the next day. Read the Tabayoyon affidavit about
> what the staff were made to do at Gold for Kidman and Cruise. This was
> not a unique experience. This shit happened and happens all the time.
>
> And for what?
>
> Cruise and Travolta.
>
> "The most insane part of the equation is that you are spending all that
> money on the very people who are destroying your credibility."
>
> Spot on, if you ask me.
There was a lot in there that was bigoted and misemotional, though.
I don't disagree with any of the observations you've written here. I
think they're quite good.
C