FACTNet responds to Kisser statement Re: Terepin
Robert S. Minton
Hash: SHA1
Cynthia Kisser's statement today, channeled to ARS by Jeff Jacobsen,
omits her other affirmation to Dan Leipold that "she can believe
Laura Terepin is not who she says she is." Also, Kisser has the
mistaken impression that FACTNet has posession of phone records.
That is not and has never been the case.
While the information from phone records was pivotal to our final
conclusion, they were by no means the only damning evidence
concerning the covert activities on behalf of Scientology by the
person who claimed to be Laura Terepin. We are completely satisfied
with the investigation done at the behest of our attorney by private
investigators. We have no further interest in investigating any
mater related to the CAN/FACTNet Laura Terepin.
We reiterate that the results of the investigation done for our
attorney are not available to any outside parties. However, we are
aware that others areconducting their own independent investigations,
and we encourage such additional enquiries as we are confident the
damning evidence is available to anyone in need of it. Our
investigation has long since been concluded and we have no intention
of inquiring further into this matter. Nor do we have any further
comment on the matter.
Bob has spoken in the last few days with the confirmed Laura (nee)
Terepin and her husband and has apologized for any inconvenience this
matter has caused them. We regret that the confirmed Laura Terepin
was drawn into this matter on the internet and again offer her our
apologies concerning this matter.
Robert S. Minton and Stacy Brooks, Directors
for and on behalf of FACTNet.
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jbwebb
Just a few questions, if that is alright with y'all:
Is the "fake" Laura gone?
When was the last you saw her?
Has Cynthia had any contact with her since this started?
Does Cynthia have an explanation why there would be two Laura Terepin's
when the "legal" Terepin states she is the only one in the country? Can
Cynthia reconcile that there are 2 Laura's?
And lastly, have you and Bob and the PI taken in account that there
might just BE two Laura Terepins'?
fwiw: my vote on the matter is in your court, at this present time. I
have faith that you would not "out" someone so harshly, if you were not
convinced of it. It was very disappointing to hear Cynthia's
denouncement, but I suppose she is dealing with other issues too
painful.
take care
joni
Zane
>"she can believe Laura Terepin is not who she says she is."
Fine, but please note that despite the certainty with which you and
stacy (or was it just stacy?) claimed that Cynthia would be convinced
after talking to Dan she was was not convinced. Apparently not even
close.
>Also, Kisser has the
>mistaken impression that FACTNet has posession of phone records.
At this point I'm not convinced there are any phone records. No one
claims to have actually seen them.
>While the information from phone records was pivotal to our final
>conclusion
See previous comment.
>they were by no means the only damning evidence
>concerning the covert activities on behalf of Scientology by the
>person who claimed to be Laura Terepin.
So what is this "damning evidence"? I hear lots about it, but never
see any.
Zane - KoX, SP4, Club Nine
Free meme innoculations!
Tilman Hausherr
wrote:
>mistaken impression that FACTNet has posession of phone records.
>That is not and has never been the case.
So what are these phone records? FACTNet doesn't have then, Dan doesn't
have them. Are they "postulates"?
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Clearwater pictures: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4497/clearwater/index.html
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster
<3751187e....@news.snafu.de>...
> In <36b29b25...@news.tiac.net>, b...@minton.org (Robert S. Minton)
> wrote:
> >mistaken impression that FACTNet has posession of phone records.
> >That is not and has never been the case.
> So what are these phone records? FACTNet doesn't have then, Dan doesn't
> have them. Are they "postulates"?
The Pope of Houston claims Dan has everything in article
<78o4hc$sla$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>, which appears not to be an
obvious forgery:
> Minton has not set any real scenario as far as I know about the 2nd
> Laura. He has only read the PI's summary which does not detail anything
> about these subjects apparently.
> Dan Leipold, FACTnet's lawyer has the full reports and the summary as
> well.
Yours in perplexity,
--
Joe Foster <mailto:jfo...@ricochet.net> or <mailto:j...@bftsi0.gate.net>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my BTs have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!
Noel Chiappa
> there might just BE two Laura Terepins'?
It seems rather unlikely to me. Here's what I found about online telephone
directories:
There are quite a few United States White Pages telephone directories
available on the Internet. None of the directories that we're aware of
gets their information direct from any of the major telephone companies.
Instead, they all utilize data gathered by just three different
information vendors (Database America, Metromail, and ProCD). Because the
information varies slightly from one vendor to the next, we've selected
the one best directory to search for each vendors data. Don't waste your
time. If you don't find the persons telephone number you're looking for
from one of the directories listed below, then chances are you probably
won't find it listed in any telephone directory on the Internet.
So, bearing that in mind, here's what a search of all three databases for
anyone with the last name Terepin produced:
- Switchboard (Database America) produced:
L Terepin in Chicago, IL
Richard D Terepin in Rochester, MI
- Four11 (Metromail) produced:
F H Terepin in Wilmington, DE
Laura Terepin in Chicago, IL
- InfoSpace (ProCD) produced:
L Terepin in Chicago, IL
Richard D Terepin in Rochester, MI
So it's a *really* rare last name.
Now, some people have suggested that there may have been someone new arrive
into the country with that last name, someone that wasn't related to those
already here.
This is a possibility, but I would consider that it fails the following test:
some other random female Terepin might have arrived - but what are the odds
that she shares the same first name with the only other (known - dunno about
"F H Terepin") female Terepin in the US?
Remember, CAN's Terepin is not a Susan Terepin, not a Kate Terepin, nor a
Mary Terepin, nor a <ad semi-infinitum>, but a *Laura* Terepin. And there are
only an absolute handful of other Terepins in the whole country.
No, doesn't seem very likely to me.
Noel
Ishmael
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:14:41 GMT, b...@minton.org (Robert S. Minton)
wrote thusly:
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[...]
Sorry for the confusion. This article was signed by the FACTNet Board
of Direrctors' key: D104 E039 485A B279 9912 F309 0E4F 4F5D B3C4 A0C4
Thank you for your attention.
Ishmael
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**************** Meet me in Clearwater, December 5th, 1999. ****************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Doubts of all things earthly, and intuitions of some things heavenly; this
combination makes neither believer nor infidel, but makes a man who regards
them both with equal eye.--Herman Melville
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.offlines.org/my_essay.html
Ishmael
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:14:41 GMT, b...@minton.org (Robert S. Minton)
wrote thusly:
}-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
}Hash: SHA1
}
}
}
}Cynthia Kisser's statement today, channeled to ARS by Jeff Jacobsen,
}omits her other affirmation to Dan Leipold that "she can believe
}Laura Terepin is not who she says she is." Also, Kisser has the
}mistaken impression that FACTNet has posession of phone records.
}That is not and has never been the case.
}
}While the information from phone records was pivotal to our final
}conclusion, they were by no means the only damning evidence
}concerning the covert activities on behalf of Scientology by the
}person who claimed to be Laura Terepin. We are completely satisfied
}with the investigation done at the behest of our attorney by private
}investigators. We have no further interest in investigating any
}mater related to the CAN/FACTNet Laura Terepin.
}
}We reiterate that the results of the investigation done for our
}attorney are not available to any outside parties. However, we are
}aware that others areconducting their own independent investigations,
}and we encourage such additional enquiries as we are confident the
}damning evidence is available to anyone in need of it. Our
}investigation has long since been concluded and we have no intention
}of inquiring further into this matter. Nor do we have any further
}comment on the matter.
}
}Bob has spoken in the last few days with the confirmed Laura (nee)
}Terepin and her husband and has apologized for any inconvenience this
}matter has caused them. We regret that the confirmed Laura Terepin
}was drawn into this matter on the internet and again offer her our
}apologies concerning this matter.
}
}Robert S. Minton and Stacy Brooks, Directors
}for and on behalf of FACTNet.
}
}
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**************** Meet me in Clearwater, December 5th, 1999. ****************
Mike O'Connor
> I don't have the key that signed this post.
>
> On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:14:41 GMT, b...@minton.org (Robert S. Minton)
> wrote thusly:
>
> }-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> }Hash: SHA1
> }
> }Cynthia Kisser's statement today, channeled to ARS by Jeff Jacobsen,
[...]
Me either.
--
Mike O'Connor - lep...@panix.com
<http://www.panix.com/~lepton/>
BigBeard
wrote:
> In article <36AF9B...@idt.net> jbw...@no.spam.idt.net writes:
>
> > there might just BE two Laura Terepins'?
>
>It seems rather unlikely to me. Here's what I found about online telephone
>directories:
>
> There are quite a few United States White Pages telephone directories
> available on the Internet. None of the directories that we're aware of
> gets their information direct from any of the major telephone companies.
> Instead, they all utilize data gathered by just three different
> information vendors (Database America, Metromail, and ProCD). Because the
> information varies slightly from one vendor to the next, we've selected
> the one best directory to search for each vendors data. Don't waste your
> time. If you don't find the persons telephone number you're looking for
> from one of the directories listed below, then chances are you probably
> won't find it listed in any telephone directory on the Internet.
>
>So, bearing that in mind, here's what a search of all three databases for
>anyone with the last name Terepin produced:
>
<snip>
Noel,
Keep in mind that folks with unlisted/unpublished phone numbers don't
generally show up in these directories. That doesn't mean they don't
exist.
Len "BigBeard" Nieman
0111 1110
Katana ko chi, SPsoo
Hartley Patterson
> Does Cynthia have an explanation why there would be two Laura Terepin's
> when the "legal" Terepin states she is the only one in the country?
IIRC Laura nee Terepin believed her family to be the only Terepins in
the USA, but it was the added coincidence that both LTs had a connection
with Scientology that convinced her that she ought to come forward and
reveal her existence on ARS.
>It was very disappointing to hear Cynthia's
>denouncement, but I suppose she is dealing with other issues too
>painful.
'denouncement' is a bit strong, though in her position I'd be decidedly
upset at being left uncertain as to what was going on. CAN staff are
stuck in the unenviable position of not knowing for certain whether they
had an undetected spy or not. Minton et al claim to have the evidence,
but they aren't for legal reasons going to reveal it.
'Investigations continue', as OSA would say!
--
Hartley Patterson
http://village.vossnet.co.uk/h/hpttrsn/
An old universe and a medieval spreadsheet
Featuring JRR Tolkien, Charles Fort and L Ron Hubbard
Martin Hunt
j...@ginger.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) wrote:
>Remember, CAN's Terepin is not a Susan Terepin, not a Kate Terepin, nor a
>Mary Terepin, nor a <ad semi-infinitum>, but a *Laura* Terepin. And there are
>only an absolute handful of other Terepins in the whole country.
>
>No, doesn't seem very likely to me.
Oh, and don't forget, the real Laura Terepin lost a friend to the
Scientology cult. Has anyone found out that friend's name? That's
FACTNet's "Laura Terepin", most likely. Mrs. Terepin was sent Bob's
photo; was there any reply? Did she recognize the woman impersonating
her?
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Just the FAQs: http://scientologysucks.lron.com
"...you are replying to an off-topic forged message that was posted
by a 'bot. The person whose name appears in the From: header of that
message almost certainly did not post it. Many regulars on a.r.s.,
including me, have been victims of these forgeries.
This appears to be a CoS plot to discredit critics by associating us
with racist and pro-Nazi statements that we did not in fact make."
- Ron Newman
Rob Clark
wrote:
>In article <78obqu$ojt$1...@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu>,
>j...@ginger.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) wrote:
>>Remember, CAN's Terepin is not a Susan Terepin, not a Kate Terepin, nor a
>>Mary Terepin, nor a <ad semi-infinitum>, but a *Laura* Terepin. And there are
>>only an absolute handful of other Terepins in the whole country.
>>No, doesn't seem very likely to me.
>Oh, and don't forget, the real Laura Terepin lost a friend to the
>Scientology cult. Has anyone found out that friend's name? That's
>FACTNet's "Laura Terepin", most likely. Mrs. Terepin was sent Bob's
>photo; was there any reply? Did she recognize the woman impersonating
>her?
i emailed the real laura terepin, who asked for the photo. she said
that she did not recognize the photo as being of her ex-friend. nor
did she recognize it in general.
rob
colette
]wrote:
]
]>In article <78obqu$ojt$1...@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu>,
]>j...@ginger.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) wrote:
]
]>>Remember, CAN's Terepin is not a Susan Terepin, not a Kate Terepin, nor a
]>>Mary Terepin, nor a <ad semi-infinitum>, but a *Laura* Terepin. And there are
]>>only an absolute handful of other Terepins in the whole country.
]
]>>No, doesn't seem very likely to me.
]
]>Oh, and don't forget, the real Laura Terepin lost a friend to the
]>Scientology cult. Has anyone found out that friend's name?
The friend's name is Carla, by the way. Don't know the
last name. Mock Terepin is not Carla.
Dave Bird
<lni...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>>So, bearing that in mind, here's what a search of all three databases for
>>anyone with the last name Terepin produced:
>>
><snip>
>
>Noel,
>
>Keep in mind that folks with unlisted/unpublished phone numbers don't
>generally show up in these directories. That doesn't mean they don't
>exist.
I see. These are the missing other 30,000 people called Terepin
to make it not a rare name, are they?
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)
Bob Minton
<hpt...@REMOVE.ME.vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>jbwebb wrote:
>
>> Does Cynthia have an explanation why there would be two Laura Terepin's
>> when the "legal" Terepin states she is the only one in the country?
>
>IIRC Laura nee Terepin believed her family to be the only Terepins in
>the USA, but it was the added coincidence that both LTs had a connection
>with Scientology that convinced her that she ought to come forward and
>reveal her existence on ARS.
>
>>It was very disappointing to hear Cynthia's
>>denouncement, but I suppose she is dealing with other issues too
>>painful.
>
>'denouncement' is a bit strong, though in her position I'd be decidedly
>upset at being left uncertain as to what was going on. CAN staff are
>stuck in the unenviable position of not knowing for certain whether they
>had an undetected spy or not.
You are missing a very important point here--there is no CAN staff.
> Minton et al claim to have the evidence,
>but they aren't for legal reasons going to reveal it.
>
>'Investigations continue', as OSA would say!
Bob Minton
Keith Henson
: ]On 28 Jan 1999 13:38:24 -0800, mar...@islandnet.com (Martin Hunt)
Maiden name was Nelson. Any oldtimers who knew the Chicago org staff
know her? If there is a name connection, this is where it came from.
Of course, only in the internet era could you expect something like this
to go sour. Keith Henson
: --
: colette
: c...@nwu.edu
: http://www.ils.nwu.edu/~marine
Martin Hunt
xe...@mindspring.com (Rob Clark) wrote:
>i emailed the real laura terepin, who asked for the photo. she said
>that she did not recognize the photo as being of her ex-friend. nor
>did she recognize it in general.
I wonder if Carla Nelson is still on staff, perhaps running
missionaires? Might explain the use of this name; I can't think
of any other rational way it might end up being used, if it is a
fake name, which seems probable.
Carla might have then pulled this name out of her memory and given
the mission orders with it included for the operative, the fake
"Laura Terepin".
This operative, Jim Beebe has said that former CAN staff still
support her - how long must she have been an OSA agent if she was
into CAN? How many years?
Rob Clark
wrote:
>In article <36b5e0e5...@news.mindspring.com>,
>xe...@mindspring.com (Rob Clark) wrote:
>>i emailed the real laura terepin, who asked for the photo. she said
>>that she did not recognize the photo as being of her ex-friend. nor
>>did she recognize it in general.
>I wonder if Carla Nelson is still on staff, perhaps running
>missionaires? Might explain the use of this name; I can't think
>of any other rational way it might end up being used, if it is a
>fake name, which seems probable.
>Carla might have then pulled this name out of her memory and given
>the mission orders with it included for the operative, the fake
>"Laura Terepin".
wouldn't the names of any close friends, family members and others
come up in routine life history stuff during auditing? the cult would
tend to have a lot of names and information, not only of their members
but of any people known by those members.
rob
BigBeard
Minton) wrote:
>On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:28:10 +0000, Hartley Patterson
><hpt...@REMOVE.ME.vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>jbwebb wrote:
>>
>>> Does Cynthia have an explanation why there would be two Laura Terepin's
>>> when the "legal" Terepin states she is the only one in the country?
>>
>>IIRC Laura nee Terepin believed her family to be the only Terepins in
>>the USA, but it was the added coincidence that both LTs had a connection
>>with Scientology that convinced her that she ought to come forward and
>>reveal her existence on ARS.
>>
>>>It was very disappointing to hear Cynthia's
>>>denouncement, but I suppose she is dealing with other issues too
>>>painful.
>>
>>'denouncement' is a bit strong, though in her position I'd be decidedly
>>upset at being left uncertain as to what was going on. CAN staff are
>>stuck in the unenviable position of not knowing for certain whether they
>>had an undetected spy or not.
>
>You are missing a very important point here--there is no CAN staff.
Bob,
We all understood what Jim meant. If CAN is dead why do you seem to
feel you need to drive a stake through it's heart?? You're coming
across as mean spirited.
Len "BigBeard" Nieman
0111 1110
Katana ko chi, SPsoo
>> Minton et al claim to have the evidence,
JimDBB
>From: b...@minton.org (Robert S. Minton)
>Date: 1/27/99 5:14 PM Centra
snipped:>While the information from phone records was pivotal to our final
>conclusion, they were by no means the only damning evidence
>concerning the covert activities on behalf of Scientology by the
>person who claimed to be Laura Terepin. We are completely satisfied
>with the investigation done at thebehest of our attorney by private
>investigators. We have no further interest in investigating any
>mater related to the CAN/FACTNet Laura Terepin.
Very serious accusations have been made against Laura Terepin. No acceptable
supporting evidence has been produced for a trustworthy witness. Now we are
told that there is other 'damming' evidence but apparently, this 'evidence'
will not be produced. Further, the accusers announce that they have no
further interest in investigating this matter.
>We reiterate that the results of the investigation done for our
>attorney are not available to any outside parties. However, we are
>aware that others are conducting their own independent investigations,
>and we encourage such additional enquiries as we are confident the
>damning evidence is available to anyone in need of it. Our
>investigation has long since been concluded and we have no intention
>of inquiring further into this matter. Nor do we have any further
>comment on the matter.
I have further comments on the matter. If the accused is guilty of the
charges of spying for the church of Scientology then laws have been broken and
information from this spying led to the destruction of the Cult Awareness
Network (CAN). Why hasn't this matter been taken to the Dept. of Justice?
Since I was one of the parties spyed upon and I lost my job from it, I insist
upon an investigation by the Dept. of Justice. You hold the evidence, so how
to we proceed? This would seem to be the way to get to the bottom of this.
Laura...I hardly knew ye.
Jim Beebe
Zane
Minton) wrote:
>You are missing a very important point here--there is no CAN staff.
You are missing a number of much more probing posts which you could
address instead.
Zane
Work like you don't need the money; Love like you've never been hurt; and Dance like no one's watching.
Hartley Patterson
> >'denouncement' is a bit strong, though in her position I'd be decidedly
> >upset at being left uncertain as to what was going on. CAN staff are
> >stuck in the unenviable position of not knowing for certain whether they
> >had an undetected spy or not.
>
> You are missing a very important point here--there is no CAN staff.
Nitpick, nitpick! :-)
I know what I meant to say (ex-CAN staff) and so did you.
Beverly Rice
> I have further comments on the matter. If the accused is guilty of the
> charges of spying for the church of Scientology then laws have been broken and
> information from this spying led to the destruction of the Cult Awareness
> Network (CAN).
> Why hasn't this matter been taken to the Dept. of Justice?
Because, it would appear that "Frankly, my dear, they don't give a
damn",
like there hasn't been enough already made public that they haven't
cared about either.
Sad, ain't it.
May not like it, but the Co$ is NOT doing anything that they haven't
been let to do.
> Since I was one of the parties spyed upon and I lost my job from it, I insist
> upon an investigation by the Dept. of Justice.
Give them a call and see if they care. If they do, let us know, because
I'd sure be surprised if they did.
> You hold the evidence, so how
> to we proceed? This would seem to be the way to get to the bottom of this.
Okay now Jim, you have been around long enough to know that what
"seems" and what "is" are two different entities :-).
Seriously though, if you want to put the time and effort into it, I
wish you luck, but again, remember, the Co$ isn't doing anything they
haven't done since practically their inception, and nothing has really
been done about it, so why should they even consider changing tactics.
The only way I see of them changing is if the government step in,
which I doubt seriously will happen with so much other cr*p going on
with them . . . or public opinion is so focused on them they begin
to really watch their actions and must change accordingly.
I put more stock in the latter than the former.
But then again, it's what people also desire to be the outcome with
the Co$. Many have stated they want nothing short of it's complete
dismantling. That's not where I am, I would like to see the standard
complaints (deception, harassment, intimidation, disconnection etc.)
be stopped. If they were honest about what they are and would not
try to be so covert publicly and overt at a one to one level, they
would be acceptable as one of the myriad idiocyncracies in our ever
evolving society.
But as they stand now, they are, in LHR's own terms, out-ethics, and
just plain immoral IMO.
If you can't get the attention of govt. officials, keep on sticking
to the attention of the public.
I was telling Garry the other night that, without exception, everyone
but ~one~ person I have talked to about the Co$ has a far from
positive opinion about them.
The public simply needs to now be informed about the many front
groups that Co$ is infiltrating into society with so they know it
by all of it's many faces.
Beverly
Arbe
(JimDBB) wrote:
> >Subject: FACTNet responds to Kisser statement Re: Terepin
> >From: b...@minton.org (Robert S. Minton)
> >Date: 1/27/99 5:14 PM Centra
>
> snipped:>While the information from phone records was pivotal to our final
> >conclusion, they were by no means the only damning evidence
> >concerning the covert activities on behalf of Scientology by the
> >person who claimed to be Laura Terepin. We are completely satisfied
> >with the investigation done at thebehest of our attorney by private
> >investigators. We have no further interest in investigating any
> >mater related to the CAN/FACTNet Laura Terepin.
>
> Very serious accusations have been made against Laura Terepin. No acceptable
> supporting evidence has been produced for a trustworthy witness. Now we are
> told that there is other 'damming' evidence but apparently, this 'evidence'
> will not be produced. Further, the accusers announce that they have no
> further interest in investigating this matter.
+++==
=========
Fwiw - One of the things I have not seen mention of in this whole scene
relates to a **Possible** reason why Mintons' comments have been less than
forthright.
Please consider the following ;
1) Attorney -client - PI privleges are not as simple as many people seem
to think.
2) It is quite possible to lose such privlege as may exist by divulging
certain information, and sometime even a 'paraphrased" refereance to
same..
3) Bob has access to considerable legal talent - and may very well have
slipped up in some of his comments...and been told in no uncertain terms
-- ZIP IT -
4) Did LT actually do something "illegal " ??
5) ** IF ** she did, and it turns out to be worth filing a criminal
complaint, or would have bearing on a civil trial -- then it *may* follow
that there is more worthwhile things yet to be disclosed at the right
time ( e.g) for purposes of impeaching the credibility of a witness. And
with the attorney-client privlege in place , such items *may* not be
subject to discovery by the other side..
Just food for thought ..
=====
--
<* ARBE -- SP2 --
<* Spammers and Forgers Note I am a Resident of Washington State
<* Damages limited to what you paid me for my opinion
Rod Keller
: I have further comments on the matter. If the accused is guilty of the
: charges of spying for the church of Scientology then laws have been broken and
: information from this spying led to the destruction of the Cult Awareness
: Network (CAN). Why hasn't this matter been taken to the Dept. of Justice?
: upon an investigation by the Dept. of Justice. You hold the evidence, so how
: to we proceed? This would seem to be the way to get to the bottom of this.
I dunno about guilty, like criminal. But it's certainly not a good thing
to do.
Jim, could you recount a little about the CAN files? What was the timing
between the decision to do something and when Scientology found out about
it? How many people do you think knew about the CAN files at that time?
Specifically, about what was being done, and the specific location
Scientology needed to go in to disrupt the plan. If you could name the
individuals who knew, that would be even better.
--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher
Black Hat #1 / Expert of the Toilet / CWPD Mouthpiece
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Vision of Destruction
Killer Rod / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully
JimDBB
>From: Beverly Rice <dbj...@iag.net>
>Date: 1/29/99 1:05 PM Central Standard Time
>Seriously though, if you want to put the time and effort into it, I
>wish you luck, but again, remember, the Co$ isn't doing anything they
>haven't done since practically their inception, and nothing has really
>been done about it, so why should they even consider changing tactics.
>
>The only way I see of them changing is if the government step in,
>which I doubt seriously will happen with so much other cr*p going on
>with them . . . or public opinion is so focused on them they begin
>to really watch their actions and must change accordingly.
>
Thanks for your thoughts, Bev. I know that the Govt. agencies prefer to turn a
deaf ear. but if enough of us make enough concentrated noise, they have to
respond. The Dept. of Justice is an arm of the Govt, after all. >The public
simply needs to now be informed about the many front
>groups that Co$ is infiltrating into society with so they know it
>by all of it's many faces.
>
>Beverly
So very true. we all need to make more of an effort to expose the front
groups, expecially the CCHR which is particularly pernicious.
JImDBB
JimDBB
>: I have further comments on the matter. If the accused is guilty of the
>: charges of spying for the church of Scientology then laws have been broken
>and
>: information from this spying led to the destruction of the Cult Awareness
>: Network (CAN). Why hasn't this matter been taken to the Dept. of Justice?
>: Since I was one of the parties spyed upon and I lost my job from it, I
>insist
>: upon an investigation by the Dept. of Justice. You hold the evidence, so
>how
>: to we proceed? This would seem to be the way to get to the bottom of this.
>
>I dunno about guilty, like criminal. But it's certainly not a good thing
>to do.
>
>Jim, could you recount a little about the CAN files? What was the timing
>between the decision to do something and when Scientology found out about
>it? How many people do you think knew about the CAN files at that time?
>Specifically, about what was being done, and the specific location
>Scientology needed to go in to disrupt the plan. If you could name the
>individuals who knew, that would be even better.
Well, Rod, you have raised a good question but I don't know if I should go into
it here. Let me think about it.
JimDBB
Dave Bird
<jim...@aol.com> writes
>>Subject: FACTNet responds to Kisser statement Re: Terepin
>>From: b...@minton.org (Robert S. Minton)
>>Date: 1/27/99 5:14 PM Centra
>
>snipped:>While the information from phone records was pivotal to our final
>>conclusion, they were by no means the only damning evidence
>>concerning the covert activities on behalf of Scientology by the
>>person who claimed to be Laura Terepin. We are completely satisfied
>>with the investigation done at thebehest of our attorney by private
>>investigators. We have no further interest in investigating any
>>mater related to the CAN/FACTNet Laura Terepin.
>
>Very serious accusations have been made against Laura Terepin.
Bzzt, Wrong. The most that can be said against Laura Terepin is
that she has suffered from someone else mis-using her name.
A *LOT* of things could be said against the Mock Turtle.....
William Barwell
Martin Hunt <mar...@islandnet.com> wrote:
>In article <78obqu$ojt$1...@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu>,
>j...@ginger.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) wrote:
>
>>Remember, CAN's Terepin is not a Susan Terepin, not a Kate Terepin, nor a
>>Mary Terepin, nor a <ad semi-infinitum>, but a *Laura* Terepin. And there are
>>only an absolute handful of other Terepins in the whole country.
>>
>>No, doesn't seem very likely to me.
>
>Oh, and don't forget, the real Laura Terepin lost a friend to the
>FACTNet's "Laura Terepin", most likely. Mrs. Terepin was sent Bob's
>photo; was there any reply? Did she recognize the woman impersonating
>her?
>
The LT photo is not the real LT's missing friend.
She does not recognize the faux LT.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope of Houston
Slack!
William Barwell
Martin Hunt <mar...@islandnet.com> wrote:
>In article <36b5e0e5...@news.mindspring.com>,
>xe...@mindspring.com (Rob Clark) wrote:
>
>>i emailed the real laura terepin, who asked for the photo. she said
>>that she did not recognize the photo as being of her ex-friend. nor
>>did she recognize it in general.
>
>I wonder if Carla Nelson is still on staff, perhaps running
>missionaires? Might explain the use of this name; I can't think
>of any other rational way it might end up being used, if it is a
>fake name, which seems probable.
to blow by Carla's ex-husband.
It is possible LT's name was mentioned in some auditing session,
and was then was investigated by Ethics as a SP along with Carla's
ex-husband. Possibly her name was placed in a file as a potential
SP needing handling by ethics. I suspect that such files were the source
of the particulars used by LT to fabricate the LT fake identity.
Beverly Rice
> Rod Keller wrote:
> >Jim, could you recount a little about the CAN files? What was the timing
> >between the decision to do something and when Scientology found out about
> >it? How many people do you think knew about the CAN files at that time?
> >Specifically, about what was being done, and the specific location
> >Scientology needed to go in to disrupt the plan. If you could name the
> >individuals who knew, that would be even better.
> Well, Rod, you have raised a good question but I don't know if I should go into
> it here. Let me think about it.
Jim, I know that everyone wants to know everything, and I don't blame
them, this has turned out to be a mess.
But consider before you put anything out on the NG what the future
legal ramifications will be, and what you might want to hold back for
use later rather than putting all your cards on display.
Sadly, not because I don't think the critcs shouldn't know, but because
OSA logs all a.r.s. posts 24/7 in KR files and you may be potentially
letting them know something that could be to yours, the original CAN's,
or even someone else's benefit later.
Just think about it first, and what the benefit or consequences in
the long run will be. Some things are better left sat on than
displayed . . . unless you can show just enough to show you have
something to show :-).
Beverly
Rod Keller
: >Jim, could you recount a little about the CAN files? What was the timing
: >between the decision to do something and when Scientology found out about
: >it? How many people do you think knew about the CAN files at that time?
: >Specifically, about what was being done, and the specific location
: >Scientology needed to go in to disrupt the plan. If you could name the
: >individuals who knew, that would be even better.
:
: Well, Rod, you have raised a good question but I don't know if I should go into
: it here. Let me think about it.
I hope you decide to do so. It seems like an odd coincidence that they
found out at all, much less in time to do something.
Cat O'Blivion
bobm...@cultofscientology.net (Bob Minton) wrote:
> You are missing a very important point here--there is no CAN staff.
You are missing a very important point here--lawsuits still continue;
CAN (although they may no longer exist as such) is not yet out of
the struggle.
It has not escaped notice that every time you mention CAN, you
do so only in the context of "past history", with a tone that
seems to indicate an unbecoming amount of glee over its demise.
CAN survived - what is it? thirty? - lawsuits before finally
dropping. Tell me, Bob, do you honestly believe that FACTNet has
that kind of tenacity? Do you really believe that FACTNet, in
its current incarnation, has the staying power to withstand that
level of opposition? Are you really in a position to gloat?
No organization lasts forever. Some day, there will be no
"FACTNet staff" either; some day soon, at the rate you are
going.
You should hope that those who follow in the struggle show more
respect and appreciation for those who went before them than do
you.
Cat
SP4, KoX
--
Stop the Spam on alt.religion.scientology - http://www.xenu.net
"I dare you, to be real, to touch a flickering flame..."
- Bauhaus -
Keith Henson
: In article <36b11837...@news.newsguy.com>,
: bobm...@cultofscientology.net (Bob Minton) wrote:
: > You are missing a very important point here--there is no CAN staff.
: You are missing a very important point here--lawsuits still continue;
: CAN (although they may no longer exist as such) is not yet out of
: the struggle.
I think Bob's point was that with no staff, a plant is not going to do
much damage. Unfortunately this might not be the case. Keith Henson
Bernie
wrote:
>According to Graham Berry, the trustee in CAN's bankruptcy case OK'd the plan to
>install Laura Terepin as the "guardian of the CAN Files" until the court ruled on
>their disposition. Scientology lawyers were seeking to claim the confidential files
>as part & parcel of their buying the rights to CAN and it's logo. Jim Beebe & Laura
>Terepin were copying said files in the event the courts ruled in Scientology's
>favor. The copying ended when attorney Moxon learned of the whereabouts of the
>files. According to Laura last October, she admonished Jim Beebe for culling
>confidential files on me, threatening to post said information on ARS, and if this
>was to occur, it would have placed her in a gullible position civilly because of her
>role as "guardian." Said files were not posted.
Yes - I remember that.
>Laura has communicated with Graham
When?
>and he takes no position on the truth or falsity
>of the charges that Bob Minton has made against her until he sees the evidence.
Rod Keller
: Jim, I know that everyone wants to know everything, and I don't blame
: them, this has turned out to be a mess.
:
: But consider before you put anything out on the NG what the future
: legal ramifications will be, and what you might want to hold back for
: use later rather than putting all your cards on display.
I don't really know what this means. The case of the files is already in
the courts, and this is really not relevant to that case. It's just a few
facts that I'm curious about. I hear things third hand, and I'd like to
confirm them with a primary source.
For instance, is it the case that the plans for the CAN files were
conceived and initiated, and Scientology's blocking action completed all
within a span of about 24 hours? And is it also the case that there was a
very very small number people who knew what Scientology needed to know to
block the plan?
Hartley Patterson
> According to Graham Berry, the trustee in CAN's bankruptcy case OK'd the plan to
> install Laura Terepin as the "guardian of the CAN Files" until the court ruled on
> their disposition. Scientology lawyers were seeking to claim the confidential files
> as part & parcel of their buying the rights to CAN and it's logo. Jim Beebe & Laura
> Terepin were copying said files in the event the courts ruled in Scientology's
> favor. The copying ended when attorney Moxon learned of the whereabouts of the
> files. According to Laura last October, she admonished Jim Beebe for culling
> confidential files on me, threatening to post said information on ARS, and if this
> was to occur, it would have placed her in a gullible position civilly because of her
> role as "guardian." Said files were not posted.
>
> of the charges that Bob Minton has made against her until he sees the evidence.
I must have missed this stuff, not having paid much attention to the CAN
affair. Thanks for reminding us - it does explain why people associated
with the old CAN should be so concerned. If the person sitting on their
files was a mole they failed to spot, but which Minton et al had...
'embarrassment' ain't the word!
Deana Marie Holmes
wrote:
>And also, because of infiltration, there is no CAN staff, and Bob does
>not intend to let that type of operation repeat itself.
Bob's not shown Cynthia Kisser any evidence to convince her of that.
Besides, this ignores the very real fact that CAN's demise came about
as a result of the Jason Scott case, not because of internal spying.
This is revisionism at its worst, and I would pose the question, "Why
would Bob Minton try to ignore the facts re the demise of CAN?" I
would suggest that one *possible* answer is: "He's doing it to
enhance the reputation of FACTNet--at the expense of CAN."
Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod Keller)
The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
mir...@xmission.com
William Barwell
Joe \"Nuke Me Xemu\" Foster <j...@bftsi0.UUCP> wrote:
>Tilman Hausherr <til...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote in article
><3751187e....@news.snafu.de>...
>
>> In <36b29b25...@news.tiac.net>, b...@minton.org (Robert S. Minton)
>> wrote:
>
>> >mistaken impression that FACTNet has posession of phone records.
>> >That is not and has never been the case.
>
>> So what are these phone records? FACTNet doesn't have then, Dan doesn't
>> have them. Are they "postulates"?
>
>The Pope of Houston claims Dan has everything in article
><78o4hc$sla$1...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>, which appears not to be an
>obvious forgery:
>
>> Minton has not set any real scenario as far as I know about the 2nd
>> Laura. He has only read the PI's summary which does not detail anything
>> about these subjects apparently.
>> Dan Leipold, FACTnet's lawyer has the full reports and the summary as
>> well.
>
>Yours in perplexity,
Apparently Leipold does not have them. What he has seen as far as phone
records, I do not know. Note Minton says "possession". I do not know if
Leipold does not 'possess' them but has read them. or not.
Bernie
(Deana Marie Holmes) wrote:
>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:11:01 -0500, Beverly Rice <dbj...@iag.net>
>wrote:
>>And also, because of infiltration, there is no CAN staff, and Bob does
>>not intend to let that type of operation repeat itself.
>
>Bob's not shown Cynthia Kisser any evidence to convince her of that.
>
>Besides, this ignores the very real fact that CAN's demise came about
>as a result of the Jason Scott case, not because of internal spying.
Exactly. I was about to say that, and maybe even did
already at some stage. The claim of Big Bob that CAN
went down as a result of inner spying doesn't hold
water at all. CAN went down as a result of Scott's case
and CAN's unholy links to deprogrammers.
>This is revisionism at its worst, and I would pose the question, "Why
>would Bob Minton try to ignore the facts re the demise of CAN?" I
>would suggest that one *possible* answer is: "He's doing it to
>enhance the reputation of FACTNet--at the expense of CAN."
Yep. It looks pretty silly and very resembling LRH's
own dismissal of other's effort for reasons of
self-agrandissment.
JimDBB
>From: GLS <gar...@postoffice.pacbell.net>
>Date: 1/30/99 1:54 AM Central Standard Time
>According to Graham Berry, the trustee in CAN's bankruptcy case OK'd the plan
to install Laura Terepin as the "guardian of the CAN Files" until the court
ruled on their disposition. Scientology lawyers were seeking to claim the
confidential files as part & parcel of their buying the rights to CAN and it's
logo. Jim Beebe & Laura Terepin were copying said files in the event the
courts ruled in
>Scientology's favor. The copying ended when attorney Moxon learned of the
whereabouts of the files. According to Laura last October, she admonished Jim
Beebe for culling confidential files on me, threatening to post said
information on ARS, and if
>this was to occur, it would have placed her in a gullible position civilly
because
>of her role as "guardian." Said files were not posted.
I don't know anything about Laura Terepin being appointed "Guardian of the CAN
Files" by the Court Trustee. The 'Guardian" bit seems unlikely. What I do
know is that she and myself were asked by the orginal CAN Board to participate
in a project to Archive the CAN Files. We were not the only ones helping with
this. The CAN Files which were under Court Seal had been returned to the CAN
Board. A few people knew about this project. One of them certainly was the
Court Appointed Bankruptcy Trustee, Philip Martino. Martino was hand picked by
Scientology's scientologist attorney, Kendrick Moxon who got the original
Trustee dismissed. The original Trustee was too fair and impartial. Philip
Martino was hostile toward's CAN from the start. He seized CAN's mail and
denied CAN Staff access to their own mail. CAN staff received mail ,
individually, all of the time. Martino told me ( and I have a witness) that
he was throwing CAN mail in the garbage. I tried to protest this with theU.S.
Bankruptcy Court and the Dept. of Justice whom this court is under. Other CAN
people tried to protest as well and we were completely denied any
consideration. Much of CAN's legal help had evaporated and so we were
floundering around. Philip Martino and Moxon were very cozy and it is my
opinion that it was Martino who tipped Moxon off about the plan to copy the CAN
Files. Laura T worked very hard and sincerely on this project to archive the
CAN Files. I can't believe that she put in all of this time and work just to
tip off Moxon. Not likely.
For those of you who are investigating this business, here are a couple of
names and numbers. Philip Martino, the appointed Trustee that I menioned is at
312-368-2165 fax 312-236-7516. He is with Rudnick & Wolfe 203 No. LaSalle
St. Chicago, Il 60601-1293
the Head Assistant US Trustee is Dean Harvalis 312-886-5785
U.S. Trustee Office at 227 West Monroe St. Suite 3350 Chicago, IL 60606
Get on these people and tell them thanks for all of the consideration they
gave to CAN. And thanks for being so accomodating to Kendrick Moxon and the
Church of Scientology.
If any body does manage to contact them , please post it on the ARS.
Jim Beebe
Steve A
<hpt...@REMOVE.ME.vossnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I must have missed this stuff, not having paid much attention to the CAN
> affair. Thanks for reminding us - it does explain why people associated
> with the old CAN should be so concerned. If the person sitting on their
> files was a mole they failed to spot, but which Minton et al had...
> 'embarrassment' ain't the word!
Yup. But what kind of religion needs covert operatives, I find myself
wondering...?
--
Steve A, SP4++, GGBC, KBM, Unsalvageable PTS/SP #12,
pitiable little Dennie (plD) #1, non-Mintonista.
Banned by Windows 1984 ScienoSitter (2e+isp)
"Where don't they want you to go today?" - http://www.xenu.net
rdorian
Master I am happy to read your words. You are so inspiring. Please return to
my house again.
Dorian
Bob Minton wrote in message +ADw-36b11837.2648193+AEA-news.newsguy.com+AD4-...
+AD4-On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:28:10 +000-, Hartley Patterson
+AD4APA-hpttrsn+AEA-REMOVE.ME.vossnet.co.uk+AD4- wrote:
+AD4-
+AD4APg-jbwebb wrote:
+AD4APg-
+AD4APgA+- Does Cynthia have an explanation why there would be two Laura Terepin's
+AD4APgA+- when the +ACI-legal+ACI- Terepin states she is the only one in the country?
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-IIRC Laura nee Terepin believed her family to be the only Terepins in
+AD4APg-the USA, but it was the added coincidence that both LTs had a connection
+AD4APg-with Scientology that convinced her that she ought to come forward and
+AD4APg-reveal her existence on ARS.
+AD4APg-
+AD4APgA+-It was very disappointing to hear Cynthia's
+AD4APgA+-denouncement, but I suppose she is dealing with other issues too
+AD4APgA+-painful.
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-'denouncement' is a bit strong, though in her position I'd be decidedly
+AD4APg-upset at being left uncertain as to what was going on. CAN staff are
+AD4APg-stuck in the unenviable position of not knowing for certain whether they
+AD4APg-had an undetected spy or not.
+AD4-
+AD4-You are missing a very important point here--there is no CAN staff.
+AD4-
+AD4APg- Minton et al claim to have the evidence,
+AD4APg-but they aren't for legal reasons going to reveal it.
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-'Investigations continue', as OSA would say+ACE-
+AD4-
+AD4-Bob Minton
rdorian
>
>
>BEGIN --- CUT HERE --- Cut Here --- cut here --- copy (12) of broncos
rule4.txt
>
>
rdorian
JimDBB
>> Rod Keller wrote:
>> >Jim, could you recount a little about the CAN files? What was the timing
>> >between the decision to do something and when Scientology found out about
>> >it? How many people do you think knew about the CAN files at that time?
>> >Specifically, about what was being done, and the specific location
>> >Scientology needed to go in to disrupt the plan. If you could name the
>> >individuals who knew, that would be even better.
Rod: I have written about the CAN Files extensively in the past. You should
be able to pull up these posts via Dejanews. under CAN Files. I think that I
numbered some, #1, #2 etc. of them and they go back aways.
Bev wrote:>Jim, I know that everyone wants to know everything, and I don't
blame
>them, this has turned out to be a mess.
>
>But consider before you put anything out on the NG what the future
>legal ramifications will be, and what you might want to hold back for
>use later rather than putting all your cards on display.
>
>Sadly, not because I don't think the critcs shouldn't know, but because
>OSA logs all a.r.s. posts 24/7 in KR files and you may be potentially
>letting them know something that could be to yours, the original CAN's,
>or even someone else's benefit later.
>
>Just think about it first, and what the benefit or consequences in
>the long run will be. Some things are better left sat on than
>displayed . . . unless you can show just enough to show you have
>something to show :-).
>
>Beverly
I know that your advise is good and I will try and follow hrough on it.
JIm Beebe
Zane
>A few people knew about this project. One of them certainly was the
>Court Appointed Bankruptcy Trustee, Philip Martino. Martino was hand picked by
>Scientology's scientologist attorney, Kendrick Moxon who got the original
>Trustee dismissed.
I'd just like to see this point clarified and picked out of the other
things that are going on and being said.
You're saying that Philip Martino, Scientology's chosen bankruptcy
trustee, know about the effort to copy the CAN files?
He would instantly rocket to the top of any list of suspects. Surely
Minton et al knew about him. If it is a fact that he knew, and that
he was chosen as you say, then it is unimaginable to lay the blame on
LT without rock-solid proof. But then there has been little in the
way of proof.
Zane
Work like you don't need the money; Love like you've never been hurt; and Dance like no one's watching.
JimDBB
>From: z_thomas#ars#@ix.netcom.com (Zane)
>jim...@aol.com (JimDBB) wrote:
>>A few people knew about this project. One of them certainly was the
>>Court Appointed Bankruptcy Trustee, Philip Martino. Martino was hand picked
>by
>>Scientology's scientologist attorney, Kendrick Moxon who got the original
>>Trustee dismissed.
Zane thomas wrote:>I'd just like to see this point clarified and picked out of
the other
>things that are going on and being said.
>You're saying that Philip Martino, Scientology's chosen bankruptcy
>trustee, know about the effort to copy the CAN files?
>He would instantly rocket to the top of any list of suspects. Surely
>Minton et al knew about him. If it is a fact that he knew, and that
>he was chosen as you say, then it is unimaginable to lay the blame on
>LT without rock-solid proof. But then there has been little in the
>way of proof.
I'm not sure of all of the technicalitys with the CAN Files. As I understand
it the US Bankruptcy Court turned the CAN Files back to the original CAN Board.
But The Court which includes the appointed Trustee, Philip Martino, still has
their hand on the Files. The court recently granted Landmark Forum's
attorney's access to the Files. I believe that the Court had to give
permission for the copry -archive project and certainly, Martino would have
known about it.
Contact Martino and ask him. The last time that I talked with this weasel he
told told me that he was throwing our CAN mail in the garbage. It was quite
obvious to us with CAN that this guy was very cozy with Moxon.
JimDBB
Zane
>I believe that the Court had to give permission for the copry -archive project
>and certainly, Martino would have known about it.
Why would he "certainly" have known? Can you explain that to me?
>Contact Martino and ask him.
Yeah, right.
>It was quite obvious to us with CAN that this guy was very cozy
>with Moxon.
So here are the premises:
1. Martino was cozy with Moxon
2. Martino knew about the copy project
If both of those are likely and cannot be ruled out, then we have a
prefectly viable alternative source for the leak. Other than the more
obvious things such as phone-call interceptions, bugs, etc.
Now I'd like to see Minton post in this thread and explain how he
eliminate Martino as a potential source of the leak before heaping the
blame on LT. Wouldn't the rest of y'all like to see him address this
point?
Zane
Gene Nygaard wrote:
> When we go to the post office, they weigh our letters in ounces and decimal
> fractions of an ounce. Then as you point out, the supermarkets use decimal
> fractions of a pound, and no one remembers how to use pounds and ounces.
> When I take a load of durum to the elevator, the scales there now give the
> weight (i.e. mass) in bushels and decimal fractions of a bushel, rather than
> the bushels and pounds which used to be used.
>
> Gene Nygaard
--
Please stop this you are making my head hurt.
Dan
P.S. You look in a cook book to find out how many gallons in a pound. :-)
I also run with scissors
Dan & Irene
USDA Zone 5
Zane
BVAskydive wrote:
>
> >were talking about the possibility
> >>of a night 25-way diamond.
> >>
> >
> >Ooh. I'd be interested. Scared shitless, but interested :)
> >
>
> Me too! I have 8 night jumps, with two 4 ways among them.... been looking for
> something bigger lately.... At least an 8 way will satisfy my craving for a
> night SCR.
>
> Blue Skies
> Billy Vance
Well, the only way you would get a NSCR is if we do it high enough, you
might talk 7 other CRWDogs into cutting away and doing the FF 8-way.
CRW Skies,
Michael
D-6139
Rod Keller
: Rod: I have written about the CAN Files extensively in the past. You should
: be able to pull up these posts via Dejanews. under CAN Files. I think that I
: numbered some, #1, #2 etc. of them and they go back aways.
Yes, I've read these. Most have been summarized for Week in Review. Being
a primary source, could you comment on who was involved in the project? I
understand those who knew the sensitive details were just a very very few.
And is it the case that Moxon reacted to the plan within a day or so after
you guys thought of the project?
Zane
Maraya wrote:
> T-Bone wrote:
> >
> > >Chris said...
> > >>Melissa said...
> > >> Can you imagine if Elway stays & they do it again next year?
> > >I'm doing more than that - I am predicting it! Trust me, it will happen.
> >
> > and if he retires...just give the ball to Brister...that guy's got game.
>
> I agree!! Brister is terrific! I don't understand why the newscasters
> are touting Brian Griese as Elway's replacement as the starter.
It's the old bloodlines thing. What they fail to realize is that he wasn't even
a full time starter at Michigan until his senior year. He has a *lot* of
potential, but also a *lot* of learning to do. He'd need another 3 years to
really be able to make a run at the starting spot.
> Do they
> plan to keep Brister as a back-up? He's payed his dues, got the talent
> and experience. Maybe they plan to trade him?
No they will keep him. He's very close to John, handles his roll with aplomb,
and had proven that he can come in cold and move the team with élan. I'm just
hoping that they don't trade Jeff Lewis - his arm and moves are so reminiscent
of Elway that it would be *big* mistake to let John's protégé go.
> Maraya
Whatever the outcome - next year should be great. I don't like the prediction
that Darrien Gordon will be on the expansion draft list - that would be a
mistake as well, he really turned his game up in the playoffs.
--
Best,
Chris -^-^-^- http://home.earthlink.net/~lightpony/index.html -^-^-^-
Zane
Great post from one of the best this NG has to offer. Good stuff Bob!
Dave Ingram
The "Black Army" marches on...
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