Fun and Games - To Gavino Idda

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Emmma

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Mar 10, 2006, 9:21:18 AM3/10/06
to
Gavino,

You may be asking yourself "Why?", "How can this happen?", "I thought I had
her firmly in my pocket as an OSA spy".

Firstly, don't ask yourself "why" because it's a listing question.

Secondly, let me tell you how this can happen. I'd hate for you to be stuck
in mystery about it.

Some background:
I wanted nothing else than to be an auditor. From the moment I walked into
Melbourne Org it was my dream. I wanted to help people and it seemed that by
becoming an auditor I could do just that. So I studied really hard and
eventually achieved my goals.

Along the way, certain cracks started to appear in my own personal Truman
show.

I saw people being hurt. This most ethical group on the planet was hurting
both staff and public. The first and most graphic example of this was 6
months prior to the GAT launch. 2 of my closest friends had 6 month old
babies and yet were ordered to Flag for 6 MONTHS!! You probably don't care
what effect that had on those mothers and their children but I certainly
did. I was closely involved in looking after one of those babies whilst his
mother was away. I tried to give him as much love & attention as I could
because his mother had just dissapeared! When she came back it was awful.
The child (he was 1 by that stage) didn't know his mother at all. I'll never
forget the look on her face when I first saw her struggling to hold her
child who was squirimg and trying to get away from this stranger. It got
even worse when her son saw me and started holding out his arms and
screaming to go to me. I felt incredibly guilty. Not only had she missed his
first steps, his first tooth and the incredible changes that occur in a
child under 1 year old, but now the child didn't know her and thought I was
his mother. How does a mother cope with that?

The other child was just as upset and confused when her mother came back.
Both women took years to gain back the trust of their kids and I doubt that
they ever really got over it. In fact I know a LOT of session time was
devoted to try to handle that incredibly hurtful ARCX.

After the GAT was launched I had first hand experience of the cruelties that
were dished out. RTC decided that we weren't making auditors fast enough so
issued a citation to Melbourne Org. All tech terminals were to write up
their O/Ws to a meter pass and this included the TTC (which I was part of).
So I did this and was meter checked on it. Then the order came back -"Not
good enough, write more". Now you tell me what LRH piece of tech says you
can do that? But anyway, under much protest I wrote more O/Ws to another
meter check and these were sent up again. However a week or so later I get
an order to go to Sydney for Sec Checking! By this stage I have an 11 month
old child, both myself and my husband were on staff working impossibly long
hours to fullfill program targets. He had to audit 25 hours, plus do folder
admin ect, plus study 35 hours per week on GAT courses plus try to wog job
at night to keep us alive. I was studying 45 hours a week, plus wog jobbing
on weekends plus looking after my baby. But despite all this I was ordered
to Sydney for a Sec check that I was expected to pay for. I was told that if
I didn't go I'd be declared instantly. So I got on a bus and went.

When I got there it was a living hell. I was treated like a piece of shit. I
had nowhere to sleep (one other Melbourne staff member who was already up
there was sleeping in his car) and it was 11pm at night. Someone told me to
make it go right. I was terrified. Luckily another Melbourne staff member
was staying at a place and told me I could sleep on the floor at the place
he was staying. So that's what I did. The next few days were a blur. I
managed to get myself a place to stay, a room with 8 others in bunk beds. I
went to the CLO everyday and just wondered around aimlessly. Nobody had the
time or desire to talk to me. I was an ethics particle who deserved nothing.
As the days stretched into weeks I was petrified I wouldn't be back for my
baby's first birthday. It was also my second wedding anniversary 6 days
after my daughter's birthday and I wasn't going to be able to spend that
with my husband either. As it drew closer and closer I was as depressed as
I'd ever been. I got extremely sick with a fever and managed to give it to
almost every asian student in the CLO academy during my many hours of M7 and
M9. I wasn't allowed in the kitchen because they knew I was sick. I was
trying to get my conditions completed in the hope that the sec check would
be called off and I could go home. The day of my daughters birthday arrived.
I was sick with grief. Nobody else cared at all.

That weekend I blew. I got on a plane and came home. I had to see my
daughter before she forgot about me. I saw how easily this can happen a few
years before. I went straight to the childcare facility and held and held
her and sobbed my eyes out. She knew who I was.

Monday came and I was sent straight back to Sydney but this time I was
promised an auditor. I did eventually get a student auditor but it took
weeks and the sessions were awful. Check my PC folders if you don't believe
me. I asked the IG RTC ANZO if I could write up MORE O/Ws to speed the
progress. I "F/Ned" through all the questions and eventually was allowed to
attest and go home. Later that same auditor blew Scientology and was
declared. I was not the only person to go through this at this time. There
were "ethics particles" from all over the country in the same boat. Most of
them were there far longer than me because they were clear or OT and needed
a Clear or OT auditor and were being made to pay for it. They were away from
their families for months at a time with no way to earn an income to pay for
these vindictive sec checks. If they were like me, their biggest crime was
to believe that the reads in the new meter films were simulated. Yes, that
was my biggest crime (I was told my the Programms Officer ANZO that this was
the reason I was there). That was the reason I spent weeks and
weeks away from my husband and child and missed two important personal
milestones. Later I find out that I was right all along.

About 12 months later I was ordered to Sydney again but this tme for
training. This time they had hatched an ingenious plan where we could take
our kids with us.
I was assured that we had accommodation arranged to cater for us and our
kids. There was another Melbourne staff member who was taking her two boys
with her. We were flown up by donations solicited from public and made our
way to the AO. When we got there no one was expecting us, there was no
ccommodation and the other woman and I sat in the foyer of the AO trying to
pacify our kids until 3am until some poor public person who'd been woken up
in the middle of the night was kind enough to come and get us.To say it was
a nightmare is an understatement. I spent the next day sitting in that same
foyer waiting for someone to tell me what was going on. Later that night,
about 8pm the EO from Melbourne Day(who was in Sydney on another cycle) told
us we could leave - go home as we didn't qual! Fortunately there was another
staffmember who'd also been sucked into this awful cycle. He'd driven to
Sydney the night before under extreme protest. He was told that he also
didn't qual and could leave. So we drove from Sydney to Melbourne overnight
with my little girl asleep on the back seat of the car.
It is over 900 kms between Sydney and Melbourne but we took turns in
driving. I was so desperate to get my little girl home. When I finally got
back into the Org I was put in lower conditions yet again and made to feel
very ashamed that I hadn't made it go right. I was supposed to now recruit a
replacement for myself so spent the day on the phone pretending to make
phone calls.

I could go on and on about this, and it would just be my personal
experience. I could tell you about the appalling treatment my husband
experienced when trying to leave after his contract expired. The screaming
and yelling, the snide remarks, the threats, the belittlement, the
invalidation. I could tell you about several public who were baltently
ripped off thousands and thousands of dollars for services that were NEVER
EVER going to be delivered because they just never qual'd and the reges knew
it. Did they get their money back? NOOOOOO. It's for next lifetime. Oh gimme
a break!

So the cracks were there all along, and as time went on the became bigger
and bigger until I couldn't stand it any more. I knew there was something
very wrong with this situation but I didn't know what. Then I looked on the
internet;-)

That first night I googled "scientology" will be a night I'll never forget.
I think my jaw dropped open after the first five minutes and it stayed that
way for the next 5 hours.

I found out that LRH, the man who was source to the greatest technology man
had ever known was a fraud, a bigamist, a criminal, a liar, a thief, a drug
addict, a wife basher, a satanist and on the run from the law for the last
several years of his life. I found out there was 7 kids, not 4 and 3 wives,
not 2 and Mary Sue went to jail while he ran away. I found out the truth
about David Mayo, David Miscavige and what happened to the mission network.
I found out about overboarding and chainlockers for kids. Yes, I read a lot
in that first sitting.

To say I was devistated and in shock is another big understatement. My whole
life was based on a lie! My friends, my church, my vocation, my goals, my
future, indeed my whole "eternity" was based on BS! I knew back then that
you can't trust everything written on the net, but when you've got court
documents, official naval records, official academic records, affidavits and
personal stories that tell the same sad tale over and over again, you just
can't dismiss it all as "lies".

I went back to the church to try to "handle" my disagreements but it was
never going to work. I knew the truth and you just can't change that. I
tried to reprogram myself but now there was a ghost in the machine. The
programming was broken and there is nothing I or anyone else could do about
it. I tried to do the right thing. I wrote up my O/Ws (again) about what I'd
seen on the net.

After that I was dismissed from staff (without a comm ev) and gagged. I was
not allowed to speak to anyone other than HCO or DSA, and speak to them only
regarding my ethics cycle. I had no one. That church was my life. I had no
other friends, no other job, no other skills and I'd isolated myself from my
family years ago. Plus I'd told them that everything was "just fine" with my
life. I could never bring myself to tell my mum about the treatment I'd been
subjected to. How did I now pretend like none of that happened? So now I was
on my own - totally. All my previously held ideas about how life works were
shattered. To use a Scientologyism, my stable data was gone with nothing to
replace it. I had noone to discuss this with and no friends shoulders to cry
on. I wasn't allowed to talk to my husband about this because it was
entheta.

So where did I turn? The internet of course.

Low and behold, what do I find? Loads and loads of people who UNDERSTAND
because they'd been through it themselves. People from all types of
backgrounds, locations and levels of involvement. But what I found most of
all was care and help. You wonder why someone like me turns to the internet?
I don't think it's hard to understand.

Over time I formed friendships. Strong friendships with people who were
honest and who really cared about me. They understood where I'd been and
they understood where I was going. I no longer felt I was going mad.

Over the next few years I did make some effort to get back in the church's
good graces. Understand that this was never my personal choice but one I
made out of duty to my husband who was desperate to get his Scientology wife
back. In effect I was playing the game of "try to keep the marriage together
for the child even if it's based on lies" It wasn't until 2004 (October)
that anything came of it. The ED Melbourne foundation had agreed to help me
complete my F & Rs but I was not happy about the injustices and wanted them
corrected as well. Out of the blue she brings CO OSA ANZO and PRO OSA ANZO
to my house!

They were very nice to me, even as they told me they were aware that I was
posting to the net and chatting on IRC. They said they wanted to help me and
for a moment I was almost sold on the idea. But when they left I realised
that I'd never be allowed back into an Org ever again and that there must be
a hidden agenda there but I didn't know what it was. I later proved my
suspicions several times over.

At this time I hadn't mentioned anything to anyone else on channel or on
ars. I was waiting to see what eventuated. I didn't have to wait long.

On October 31st (I remember this because I was at a halloween party) I got a
call from my local OSA office asking if I could log onto the chat channel
and log the conversations that were going on. I was assured that these would
never be published or used against anyone, but that OSA just wanted to know
if the evil SPs were planning anything.

Now I knew what the agenda was.

I got online and told a few trusted people what OSA had asked me to do and a
plan was hatched. Little did we know just how far this would go.

A few days later I got a call from an Italian sounding man who called
himself "Frank". He said he was from OSA Int and wanted me to send the logs
directly to him.

I got back on line and was talking to Patty Pieniadz who I'd gotten to know
very well. She told me that OSA suspected her to be Cerridwen because
Maureen had already confronted her about it. Being the wild and crazy person
she is, she suggested that we give them what they want! This way it throws
them completely off the track as to who Cerridwen actually is (Which I still
don't know) and we get to have some fun. So we had several conversations
where she "admitted" to being Cerridwen. But then she really made me laugh
when she says that she's Lagniappe AND the Mailman. She though we could get
away with this because they both use remailers. I didn't think "Frank" would
buy this but it seems he did! Frank of course was Gavino Idda.

The fun stopped when OSA posted the DA page on Patty. It seems our plan had
backfired. I was extremely upset about it but Patty just took it in her
stride. Her reasoning was that she had planned to start posting anyway and
what she had to say DESERVED a DA page, so it was just a matter of time. It
was at that time, if you remember Gavino, that I got very upset with you and
told you I wouldn't be your spy any longer. So the game was over.

So why, you may ask, am I coming out now to tell this little tale. It's
actually very simple.

Gavino, you promised me that you'd never post or use any logs I sent you.
Now, through a forgery of David Touretzky, you have promised to do just
that. This exposes another 2 lies you told me. First you told me that OSA
don't post to ars, but only OSA had access to that "data". Secondly you said
you'd never betray me. But you have. Sort of. I mean there is nothing to
betray but you didn't KNOW that until a few hours ago. So if I had trusted
you I'd be right in the soup - wouldn't I?

My other reason for coming out now and telling this story is because I'm
proud of the work this group does. I'm proud of the guts that people show,
especially those who were "in" the longest i.e Patty, Chuck Tory etc. Until
now I've been content to stay on the fence. Not really "in" but never having
the guts to make that clear. I was always worried about what OSA would do to
me, or my marriage or my daughter. Now I see that I have an obligation to
tell the truth.

I will most certainly be declared over this posting and my earlier one. This
will change some things in my life and make it more difficult to have any
kind of civil relationship with my ex husband. But what I've realised is
that I have the RIGHT to speak out. I have the RIGHT to expose a group who
do harm to people under the guise of help. If that group choose to fair game
me or label me an SP or psychotic then that is their choice. If my husband
chooses to abide by their suppresive laws then that is his problem - not
mine.

Sorry this is so long. It needed to be said.

Emmma


barbz

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Mar 10, 2006, 10:04:29 AM3/10/06
to
Emmma wrote:

Hot damn! Yet another satisfied customer! Thanks for speaking out,
Emmma. It takes a lot of courage to do this. Every voice helps. Talk
about group dynamic! Where will Scientology be in the next decade? How
can it possibly defend itself against the rising tide of voices exposing
its abuses?

--
--
Barb
Chaplain, ARSCC
xenu...@netscape.net

"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now
every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things
to damage its own reputation."
-Steve Zadarnowski

"Comparing Scientology to a motorcycle gang is a gross, unpardonable
insult to bikers everywhere. Even at our worst, we are never as bad as
Scientology."
-ex-member, Thunderclouds motorcycle "club"

"$cientology sees the world this way: One man with a picket sign:
terrorism. Five thousand people dead in a deliberate inferno: business
opportunity.

$cientology oozes _under_ terrorists to hide."
-Chris Leithiser

renedes...@hotmail.com

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Mar 10, 2006, 10:48:23 AM3/10/06
to
LRH - mankind's greatest friend

The purpose of ethics
1) remove counter intention
2) remove other intention

It is a high crime to publicly depart Scientology

LRH promised a bridge to eternity, he gave us a pier that overhangs a
large, dark cold abyss.

The route to infinity, infinity is just around the corner

LRH - smoking more prevents cancer.

Rd00

realpch

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Mar 10, 2006, 11:39:18 AM3/10/06
to
Emmma wrote:

Top post: Oh dear. Helluva story. I expect you will be starring on your
own RFW page in the near future. Thanks for putting this up here for
everyone to consider.

Peach

Emmma

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Mar 10, 2006, 11:59:24 AM3/10/06
to

"realpch" <rea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4411ABB6...@aol.com...

> Emmma wrote:
>
> Top post: Oh dear. Helluva story. I expect you will be starring on your
> own RFW page in the near future. Thanks for putting this up here for
> everyone to consider.
>
> Peach
>

I'm beyond caring.

All I've done is tell the truth about my experiences.

If they want to put up a page about someone who they wanted to spy for them
then it just makes them look even more stupid.

If they want to play those sort of games then it's up to them.

- Emmma


Message has been deleted

realpch

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Mar 10, 2006, 12:29:27 PM3/10/06
to

It's really sad to see the dedicated members treated so badly, and then
after they leave because of the bad treatment, the Church of Scientology
posts stuff about them on the RFW page, hammering home the point of how
little they really think of their members. It *is* stupid.

I'm sorry you had to go through that crap.

Thanks again, and I hope other staffers who are new mothers get a gander
at your account.

Best,
Peach

Zinj

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Mar 10, 2006, 1:40:26 PM3/10/06
to
In article <4411B777...@aol.com>, rea...@aol.com says...
> Emmma wrote:

Hi Emmma, thanks for your tale, and I'm glad you got out of the pit :)

Watching the newest version of 'Let's Play Footbullet' is a hoot.

I think it's a little bit of a mistake to have Gavino Idda in the
subject, although, your story makes it clear that he was your 'direct
contact'.

From all we know though (which is never as much as we want) Gavino is
more or less just Bill Yaude's cyber-flunky errand boy, and not even
'OT'; possibly not even 'clear'.

I doubt he has the authority to take a leak unless he fills out a
routing form, so, Bill would be the actual author of this fiasko (like
so many others.)

Naturally, he too takes his orders from 'uplines' and reports there,
although I suspect he's carefully tailoring his 'reports' to disguise
the gasping, wheezing hemhorraging 'product' of his 'bright ideas' :)

Zinj
--
You Can Lead a Clam to Reason; but You Can't Make Him Think

Cerberus

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Mar 10, 2006, 1:44:39 PM3/10/06
to
Hiya Emmma!

Dang it. Wish I'd NEVER learned to type. I just CAN't seem to keep
track of the a.r.s. players. Which proves (as if it needed any more
proof) that it just don't pay for a degraded being to allow his
betters to better him up - tho' I have to say that learnin' how to
curse provides a comfort denied even to prayer.

The upshot is that I got a comm lag and a half, and it's mostly the
fault of the facts that (1) I got no attention span whatsoever, (2)
a kill-file that in spite of all my efforts, STILL has Cerridwen in
it, and (3) no IM or chatboard skills at all, since these big paws
don't seem designed to interface with a keyboard.

I feel like I'm being swarmed over by nasty little data bits.
They're definitely UP to something, and it SOUNDS like there's an
amusing party goin' on SOMEwhere, but as usual, NObody unlatched
the doggy door.

Y'know I used to think Diane Richardson was just bein' a LITTLE bit
tweaky complainin' about a.r.s. cabals and "back channel" natter,
but now I see that (as usual) the REAL ARSCC Librarian had a point.

Would SOMEone please dumb down all these mysterious shenanigans and
put them in chronological order? I've seen Emmma's story, and
Patty's story and some weird thingy where Ole Doc Touretzky is
apologizing to Ctrl-K Queen Barbara Schwartz in a most improbable
manner.

Now USUALLY, I can rely on Pope Charles to explain things, but he
seems to be assigned to anti-spam duty lately. (and WHAT - if I
may be so bold as to inquire - happened to wcb's Popery anyway?
Can the Sub-genii demote a POPE? And is THAT why he's on anti-spam
duty - some sort of amends project?)

ANYway, "Emmma" <ga...@moregames.com> wrote:

>Gavino,
>
>You may be asking yourself "Why?", "How can this happen?", "I thought I had
>her firmly in my pocket as an OSA spy".

Gavino ain't the ONLY one askin', hon. This here episode has got
too steep a gradient fer the likes o' me.

[snip interesting personal story about becoming disillusioned with
Scientology in Oz]

Thanks Emmma, I think. I'm guessin' it DID need to be said. I
think MORE needs to be said. Somebody needs to tell the damned dog
WTF is goin' on!

Don't mean to sound TOO demandin'. It's just that when things get
too convoluted, I get frustrated. And THEN one head or another
(usually the one that's drunk) bites the keyboard. And that HURTS.

Please. Someone. What happened?

Best,

Cerberus
___________________

His spirits hear me
And yet I needs must curse...
For every trifle are they set upon me;
Sometime like apes that mow and chatter at me
And after bite me, then like hedgehogs which
Lie tumbling in my barefoot way and mount
Their pricks at my footfall; sometime am I
All wound with adders who with cloven tongues
Do hiss me into madness.

The Tempest, Act II, Scene 2

cerb...@phlegethon.com
cerb...@aol.com _________________________________________

"In Germany they first came for the insane, raving, IQ-testing,
barratrous, money-laundering, tax-dodging cultists, and I didn't
speak up because I was not an insane, raving, IQ-testing, barratrous,
money-laundering, tax-dodging cultist. Then things got MUCH better,
and we're all fine now. Thanks for asking."

Pastor Martin Niemoller III (Germany, 2008)

http://www.xenu.net
http://freehenson.tripod.com
_________________________________________________________

Ed

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Mar 10, 2006, 1:46:42 PM3/10/06
to

matej....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Nice and true write up.
>
> Pls. read www.robertdam-cos.dk if you have not yet.
>
> I am out of CofS after 15 years activ in it and I was also shocked to
> find out, at first,
> but after some time of this look and confront process I am back on the
> Bridge in Rons Org and as far as I spoke with the OTs who left Church
> and continue more rapidly in Rons this looks like a workable option.
> You do not need to through LRH out the window just because DM is an SP
> and Church has become a suppressive group.
>
You should read the three biographies of LRH, or any one of
them. The guy was insane in several ways. The fact that he desperately
sought to cure himself and even found a few good principles with some
truth in them does not mean you can take him as a pure source. He was
a poluted source. There are many, many good sources extant at this
time. Your life lesson is probably to sort out the degree to which you
unquestioningly accept LRH as what he said he was.

Ed



> There is hope and there is the tech and we can still make it. I never
> thought it would be easy, so that does not suprice me, now, when I did
> found out.
>
> I wish you all the best.
>
> Matej Havlin
> Czech Republic, Prague
> havlin*mybox.cz

Jens Tingleff

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Mar 10, 2006, 2:17:23 PM3/10/06
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Emmma wrote:

Thanks for posting this.

The treatment that totaletarian groups like the criminal organisation known
as the "church" <spit> of $cientology dishes out to its members ought not
to be accepted by civil society. I'm sorry you were victimised by the
$cientology organisation and I hope you will recover and get back into Real
Life[tm]. If you want to post to a.r.s that would be great (if you want to
just get on with your life, that would be equaly great :-) ).

Oh, and congrats on an excellent op run on OSA. Very Well Done!!!!!!!!!

;-) ;-)

Best Regards

Jens


- --
Key ID 0x09723C12, jens...@tingleff.org
Analogue filtering / 5GHz RLAN / Mdk Linux / odds and ends
http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/ +44 1223 211 585
"The Duc de Ventre says he will carry that ghastly schlup to his mausoleum"
N L
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wbarwell

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Mar 10, 2006, 4:00:58 PM3/10/06
to
Emmma wrote:

Their silly page is a joke, and evberybody who reads it, even the
most naive kind of gets that. Not that that many people do
except to see just how bad they get.
Again, your tale is disgusting, these people simply do not
care about children in the least and that is one of the
nasties that keeps me hammering at this cult.

Thank you for the post laying that all out

I would like to ask, what was the approximate time
frame for this, about when did you join, when did
you get pushed out?


--

So you want to fight the Master!
First you must fight my brother Chang!

Cheerful Charlie

Patty Pieniadz

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Mar 10, 2006, 6:35:58 PM3/10/06
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"Zinj" <zinj...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1e7b9226a...@news.day.sbcglobal.net...


> In article <4411B777...@aol.com>, rea...@aol.com says...
>> Emmma wrote:
>
> Hi Emmma, thanks for your tale, and I'm glad you got out of the pit :)
>
> Watching the newest version of 'Let's Play Footbullet' is a hoot.
>
> I think it's a little bit of a mistake to have Gavino Idda in the
> subject, although, your story makes it clear that he was your 'direct
> contact'.
>
> From all we know though (which is never as much as we want) Gavino is
> more or less just Bill Yaude's cyber-flunky errand boy, and not even
> 'OT'; possibly not even 'clear'.

Zinj, I don't believe this information is correct.

Bill Yaude may still be one of the many osa spammers here but he is not high
up on the org board. He's just one of many volunteers that they use.

He's gotten a lot of publicity because Tory knew him well as both her
auditor
and a fellow OSA volunteer.

Gavino Idda is a long time OSA/Sea Org Staff member. He is no lackey to
Bill Yaude. If anything, Bill Yaude does Gavino's bidding. Not the other
way around.

>
> I doubt he has the authority to take a leak unless he fills out a
> routing form, so, Bill would be the actual author of this fiasko (like
> so many others.)

No. Gavino runs all ops on ars and works in coordination with OSA Int
to get any internet critics exposed and "handled".


>
> Naturally, he too takes his orders from 'uplines' and reports there,
> although I suspect he's carefully tailoring his 'reports' to disguise
> the gasping, wheezing hemhorraging 'product' of his 'bright ideas' :)

After Emma's posts. Gavino will more than likely be spending time on the
RPF.

Gavino got OP'd and he's probably reeling right now, wondering what the
heck is going on.

Hey Gavino, how's it feel to have a Op run on you? Not to good huh?

The GO and OSA taught me well. All those hours studying those confidential
PL's that MF and Toni showed me, really paid off. ;)

Toni Chrambanis always said I had "flair" something that was a necessary
requirement to being a good OSA op.


--
Patty

If you would like to email me, remove the words
"no spam"from my email address.

TIP #1

In order to properly eat a doughnut you need some liquids
to wash it down. Coffee, milk, and Mountain Dew are the
three most widely accepted doughnut chasers with coffee
and milk having the added value of 'dunkability'.

Michael Pattinson

unread,
Mar 10, 2006, 7:06:46 PM3/10/06
to
Wow, Patty, you piqued my interest with the mention of the confidential
PLs.. I read "Targets Defense" but what more can you tell us about
covert op techniques? The D-line stuff was very interesting.

I had a lot of fair game etc, used on me personally when I sued Scn in
1998-2000, so knowing what policies were being applied would be of use
to me.

Thanks!
I love your posts and Emmma's too...yayyy!

MP

Emmma

unread,
Mar 10, 2006, 10:15:29 PM3/10/06
to

"wbarwell" <wbar...@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:1213psm...@corp.supernews.com...

I joined staff in 1994, and was dismissed in March 2001.

- Emmma


ida...@aol.com

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 1:05:16 AM3/11/06
to
Hey there Emma So glad to see you out and telling your story. Thank
you so much.

I had a bit of go- round because of Gavino Idda. He sent news to the
Golden Era farce
that he had read on the internet I had posted I was going to put a bomb
in a sheet cake.
This brought Elliott Richardson with the sheriff to my front porch. It
was the last straw
as the fair game was getting old.
The next day a friend and I went to the main Sheriff office here in
Hemet. Sure stopped
the action which I was and am enjoying.

Again Emma thanks and the best of luck in the future. You were smart to
"write it all down" Very good way to help with the transition from the
cult to freedom. I am sure that
others who have left but kept silent will find courage to write their
story soon.

Ida Camburn

"You must have crossed the river to tell the crocodile he has bad
breath"
Chinese proverb

wbarwell

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 1:12:22 AM3/11/06
to
Patty Pieniadz wrote:

> Gavino Idda is a long time OSA/Sea Org Staff member. He is no lackey to
> Bill Yaude. If anything, Bill Yaude does Gavino's bidding. Not the other
> way around.

>>
>> I doubt he has the authority to take a leak unless he fills out a
>> routing form, so, Bill would be the actual author of this fiasko (like
>> so many others.)
>
> No. Gavino runs all ops on ars and works in coordination with OSA Int
> to get any internet critics exposed and "handled".
>

But, but, he's not handling anybody.
Nobody's going away.

>> Naturally, he too takes his orders from 'uplines' and reports there,
>> although I suspect he's carefully tailoring his 'reports' to disguise
>> the gasping, wheezing hemhorraging 'product' of his 'bright ideas' :)
>
> After Emma's posts. Gavino will more than likely be spending time on the
> RPF.
>
> Gavino got OP'd and he's probably reeling right now, wondering what the
> heck is going on.
>
> Hey Gavino, how's it feel to have a Op run on you? Not to good huh?
>
> The GO and OSA taught me well. All those hours studying those
> confidential
> PL's that MF and Toni showed me, really paid off. ;)
>
> Toni Chrambanis always said I had "flair" something that was a necessary
> requirement to being a good OSA op.


Hubbard op'ed him too

wbarwell

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 1:22:08 AM3/11/06
to
Michael Pattinson wrote:

> Wow, Patty, you piqued my interest with the mention of the confidential
> PLs.. I read "Targets Defense" but what more can you tell us about
> covert op techniques? The D-line stuff was very interesting.
>
> I had a lot of fair game etc, used on me personally when I sued Scn in
> 1998-2000, so knowing what policies were being applied would be of use
> to me.
>

Google up the 1974 GO agent hat pack and the 1991 OSA hat pack.
You should be able to find them on Armstrong's sites.

Then, make a list.

HCOPL 7 March 1965
HCOPL 23 December 1965
Manual of Justice
Dissemination manual
The War.
Attacks on Scientology
Battle tactics
Enemy names
Public investigations

It goes on and on and on.

Many will be listed in the OECs

Zinj

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 1:19:03 AM3/11/06
to
In article <47egr1F...@individual.net>, ppienia...@gmail.com
says...

I'm not convinced Patty, although I don't doubt your expertise and
credibility. We're coming at this from very different angles, since
I've never been in Scientology, much less in the Sea Org or OSA.

On the other hand, I've been on the OSA shit list for about 8 years now.
Although I haven't met either Gavino or Bill Yaude personally, I've had
many conversations with Bill's former identities (and possibly Gavion
too, if he was one of the ESL Wgerts :) and, I have been fairly close
to quite a few long term Sea Orgers, although none of them were OSA
(except for Frank Oliver, whom I know only in passing from the same
kinds of conversations I'd had with Bill, and from having met once 'inna
flesh'.

And, of course, those who were with OSA who didn't tell me so :)

I had a bit of previous cognitive dissonance when you told how it would
be the DSA of the local org who would have to 'handle' any local SPs.
Not because I doubt that that would be the 'normal' procedure, but
because in 8 years I've lived in a number of different locales, but have
a distinct feeling I've been dealing with the same gaggle of yahoos the
whole time, rather than a revolving bunch.

So, I suspect you're right, but, I also suspect that my own experience
at the other end of the spitwad is different because we're talking
apples and oranges.

I think the difference has to to with my experience beginning in LA,
rather than some outlying 'org'. Whatever an 'org board' may say, there
are more Sea Org flunkies in LA than anywhere else. Probably more tan
Clearwater even, and there are also quite a few 'high ranking' *non* Sea
Orgers.

I used to be under the impression that the DSA of an org was per 'hat' a
Sea Org member, but, I've since been educated that this is only in Class
V orgs, so, while being SO almost certainly pulls a lot of weight when
they blow into an org on a 'mission' or other weighty purpose, I suspect
that it just doesn't have the same cachet in LA. Org Board or not.

And, there are so many intertwining 'lines' and orgs and left hands not
knowing what the right hand is doing in LA that I suspect the 'org
boards' would look like spaghetti if they were tossed together.

Naturally, and despite the fact that Sea Org is ipso facto 'higher' on
the board than any non-SO, there are also other factors. For example,
OT levels. In another sense they also represent a class or royalty
which rivals the SO itself.

So, what I'm saying (I think) is that, a Sea Org in Boston might be
merely by being SO the I/C, but, in LA, they have Sea Org to take out
the trash and lick envelopes.

Gavino, is someone I've never had any contact with, but, also no
particular information indicating any level of 'authority'. All I know
about him is what Tory said here:
========================================

"I went into an upstairs room of an apartment, where I was told to go.
Jim Kalurgas was there, with CJ and I think one other man. I remember it
was all men at the meeting, and me, and we were all OT’s except for
Gavino. In stormed Mr. Bill and Gavino walking rapidly across the floor.
I cannot even remember what Gavino said, but suddenly I heard him say in
his very Italian accent, "I tawwwld you about HER, Bill!"

I immediately said "You told him What>???" In Scientology they have a
term for talking about people behind their backs, it is called Third
Party, and I was shocked to hear Gavino had been 3rd partying me to
Bill, and that Bill wouldn’t have told me! Suddenly Gavino asks me,
"What could possibly come up in a session re this project Tory?"

I am stunned. HUH? What could come up??? I am an OT 7~! So are ALL of
the men, except for Gavino who is Clear. My Fucking Auditor is asking
the same question!! The same person who a short time ago stood up in OSA
INT and said, "Don’t worry, Tory. OSA has fabulous auditors at Flag who
can help you if you need it". Remember? I even asked a few times, "Are
you sure??" And Bill said? " SURE!!!" Then. Not now.

Now he is storming around the room with Gavino asking the same question
over and over: "What could come up re this project, Tory". Well again,
if you understand the OT levels, ANYTHING can come up with Bt’s and
Clusters…so hey, I was in shock! How could I possibly answer this Clear,
who doesn’t have a clue about Bt’s and Clusters, and for me to even hint
at it would get me in serious trouble. And right next to him is my OT 7,
Class 9 auditor asking the very same questions! It had the very same
feel as the old GO stories I had long ago heard about, where exec’s
interrogated people, screaming at them, etc.

This went on for about 45 minutes with Bill and Gavino asking me over
and over what could possibly come up? Shit…..there was a major crack in
The Scientology Truman Show in this room this night. Finally I broke
down and began crying very hard. I didn’t care. What could they do,
Shoot me?
====================================

That does *not* sound to me like Gavino being I/C of the project or
anything else, but rather, playing up to Bill.

And, I remembered wrong, Gavion *is* 'clear'. I misremembered. :)

But, while I know Bill Yaude is still active (for reasons I won't go
into right now,) my impression of Gavino Idda is of a flunky, SO or no.

Naturally, your mileage may vary :)

Zinj
--
Scientology: Come for the placebo; stay for the mind fuck.

wbarwell

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 1:55:41 AM3/11/06
to
Michael Pattinson wrote:

> Wow, Patty, you piqued my interest with the mention of the confidential
> PLs.. I read "Targets Defense" but what more can you tell us about
> covert op techniques? The D-line stuff was very interesting.
>

LIST OF FAIR GAME RELATED MATERIALS


HCO POLICY LETTER OF 7 MARCH 1965
Issue III
JUSTICE OFFENSES & PENALTIES

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead,
Sussex HCO POLICY LETTER OF 23 DECEMBER 1965 (Replaces HCO Policy
Letter of 7 March 1965, Issue I. This was originally misdated as 1
March 1965)
ETHICS SUPPRESSIVE ACTS SUPPRESSION OF SCIENTOLOGY AND
SCIENTOLOGISTS THE FAIR GAME LAW

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex Remimeo
HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967
Issue IV
PENALTIES FOR LOWER CONDITIONS
(Applies both Orgs and Sea Org)

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 21 JULY 1968
(Cancels HCO Pol Ltr 18 October 67 issue IV)
PENALTIES FOR LOWER CONDITIONS
(Applies to both Orgs and Sea Org)

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead,
Sussex HCO POLICY LETTER OF 21 OCTOBER 1968
CANCELLATION OF FAIR GAME

HBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 6 OCTOBER 1970
ISSUE III
ETHICS PENALTIES

MODERN MANAGEMENT
TECHNOLOGY DEFINED
First printing 1976
.....
FAIR GAME, by fair game is meant, may not be
further protected by the codes and disciplines
of Scn or the rights of a Scientologist.
(HCO PL 23 Dec 65)

CONFIDENTIAL - for HCO personnel only
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
m a n u a l o f j u s t i c e
by L. RON HUBBARD

Ability
Major 1 [1955, ca. mid-March]
THE SCIENTOLOGIST
A Manual on
THE DISSEMINATION OF MATERIAL
L. Ron Hubbard

HCO BULLETIN OF 12 FEBRUARY 1967
ADMIN KNOW-HOW
THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF LEADERS

036 ED 149 INT 2 Dec 66 PROJECT SQUIRREL
L. Ron Hubbard EXECUTIVE DIRECTIVE 149
CONFIDENTIAL
BRANCH 5 PROJECT
PROJECT SQUIRREL

LRH Aides Conference
"Covert Operations"
2 November 69

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 17 FEBRUARY 1966
Department 3, Section 5
PUBLIC INVESTIGATION SECTION

OFFICE OF SPECIAL AFFAIRS NETWORK ORDER
OSA NW ORDER 15
18 February 1988
Confidential
BLACK_PROPAGANDA

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 FEBRUARY, 1969
Guardians Offices
Intelligence
PRO
Issue IV
Confidential
TARGETS, DEFENSE

B O A R D P O L I C Y L E T T E R
General Non-Remimeo 30 May 1974
C O N F I D E N T I A L
PR SERIES 24
HANDLING HOSTILE CONTACTS/DEAD AGENTING

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
37 Fitzroy Street, London, W.1
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 15 AUGUST 1960
Re-issued from Sthil
DEPT OF GOVT AFFAIRS

6106C26 SHSpec-20 Dealing with Attacks on
Scientology

S E C R E T
GO 070571 LRH
7 May 1971
NOTES ON SMERSH

From: Impact 30 circa 1990
The Magazine of the International Association of Scientologists
Critics of Scientology by L. Ron Hubbard

LRH ED 55 INT
29 November 1968
THE WAR

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 FEBURARY 1969
Guardians Offices
PRO
Intelligence
ISSUE II-
Confidential
BATTLE TACTICS

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 16 FEBRUARY 1969
ISSUE II
REISSUED 24 SEPTEMBER 1987
(Reissued with updated distribution.)

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 25 FEBRUARY 1966
Sect 5 Dept 3
ATTACKS ON SCIENTOLOGY
(Additional Pol Ltr)

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE Saint Hill Manor,
East Grinstead, Sussex HCO POLICY LETTER OF 18
FEBRUARY 1966
ATTACKS ON SCIENTOLOGY (Continued) (This Pol
Ltr augments HCO Pol Ltr of 15 Feb 66, Attacks
on Scientology)

SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL
COLUMN S
Ethic Level
COLUMN T
Truth
COLUMN Y
Handling Others
COLUMN K
Speech talks
Speech listens

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 7 FEBRUARY 1965
REISSUED 15 JUNE 1970

Muldoon

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 2:24:38 AM3/11/06
to

Michael Pattinson wrote:
> Wow, Patty, you piqued my interest with the mention of the confidential
> PLs.. I read "Targets Defense" but what more can you tell us about
> covert op techniques? The D-line stuff was very interesting.
>
> I had a lot of fair game etc, used on me personally when I sued Scn in
> 1998-2000, so knowing what policies were being applied would be of use
> to me.
>
> Thanks!
> I love your posts and Emmma's too...yayyy!
>
> MP
>

-snip-

General info: 'Targets, Defense' has to do with confidential targets,
and visible (PR) defense.

As with some confidential and highly confidential writings by Hubbard,
euphemisms are used, and other wordings, designed to confuse any
"unauthorized person."

For example: After instructing on such topics as "obliteration,"
"attacking early and hard," the importance of "using enemy tactics,"
and "taking over control or allegiance of.. news media... political
figures," etc., 'Targets, Defense' goes on to explain that, "Our best
defense is that we are sincere, that we are effective and that we
commit no crimes." And "Our next best defense line was being sure the
public knew we were a Church."

"Defense" and "defense line" are euphemisms for PR cover or smoke
screen.

"Outsiders" reading the above are often "stopped in their tracks" by
the apparent affirming of "breaking no laws," etc., yet that is - in
fact - only a "PR line."

Another example of "defense" as a euphemism can be found in Hubbard's
'Branch One Hatting Letter', [transcribed from Hubbard's taped
briefings] 'Orgs, Infiltration of', in which it is explained, "As a
defensive [sic] policy for Scn, we have all [sic] our data readily
available to anyone who desires it, in our course packs, OEC volumes,
and Scn books."

"All our data..." Hmmm.

The same 'Hatting Letter', without missing a beat, also instructs, "As
Scnists we always protect our data," and goes on to emphasize the
importance restricting data.

One is a "defensive line" (as a _display_ "policy,"), and the other is
the "for real" (non public _actual_ policy).

To fully understand, and appreciate, Hubbard's confidential and highly
confidential writings, it's sometimes necessary to understand and
"de-code" his "special language" and way of presenting information.

Susan

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 4:01:29 AM3/11/06
to
Emma, Welcome to ars. Sad but excellent write-up of your experiences. Thanks
for speaking out and helping to expose this insidious cult.

Susan

"Emmma" <ga...@moregames.com> wrote in message
news:47dgauF...@individual.net...

Ed

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 9:41:46 AM3/11/06
to

Zinj wrote:

[snip to:]

I disagree here. In this incident the way I read it is that
Gavino is the boss and taking the initiative. The fact that non-OT
Gavino confidently and with authority breaks all the auditing tech
rules in dealing with what looks like major trouble tells me a couple
of things. If he is the underling he doesn't just up and do what he
did. And he knows from the total OSA/SO indoctrination that you deal
right now with the situation and to hell with any wishy-washy
audiror's tech considerations.

Also, it has been posted somewhere that Yaude has been a non-SO OSA
volunteer for a long time, and he worked as an auditor or C/S in some
mission, as opposed to being on regular staff. The SO/OSA hard core
have thorough disrespect for the weaklings/DBs/etc. who take the easy
path of life outside.

Ed

Ball of Fluff

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 12:29:17 PM3/11/06
to

"Ed" <met...@aol.com> wrote in message news:4412E1AA...@aol.com...
>> Clusters.so hey, I was in shock! How could I possibly answer this Clear,

>> who doesn't have a clue about Bt's and Clusters, and for me to even hint
>> at it would get me in serious trouble. And right next to him is my OT 7,
>> Class 9 auditor asking the very same questions! It had the very same
>> feel as the old GO stories I had long ago heard about, where exec's
>> interrogated people, screaming at them, etc.
>>
>> This went on for about 45 minutes with Bill and Gavino asking me over
>> and over what could possibly come up? Shit...there was a major crack in

>> The Scientology Truman Show in this room this night. Finally I broke
>> down and began crying very hard. I didn't care. What could they do,
>> Shoot me?
>> ====================================
>>
>> That does *not* sound to me like Gavino being I/C of the project or
>> anything else, but rather, playing up to Bill.
>>
>> And, I remembered wrong, Gavion *is* 'clear'. I misremembered. :)
>>
>> But, while I know Bill Yaude is still active (for reasons I won't go
>> into right now,) my impression of Gavino Idda is of a flunky, SO or no.
>>
>> Naturally, your mileage may vary :)
>
> I disagree here. In this incident the way I read it is that
> Gavino is the boss and taking the initiative.

I think he's just head of one section.

I hear that he's got limited authority, such as it is.

But within his own little area, he can play the tinpot dictator.

C


Jommy Cross

unread,
Mar 11, 2006, 9:56:21 PM3/11/06
to
On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:44:39 -0700, Cerberus <cerb...@phlegethon.com>
wrote in msg <2ge312p6c6m5qrbn7...@4ax.com>:
<snip>

>Would SOMEone please dumb down all these mysterious shenanigans and
>put them in chronological order? I've seen Emmma's story, and
>Patty's story and some weird thingy where Ole Doc Touretzky is
>apologizing to Ctrl-K Queen Barbara Schwartz in a most improbable
>manner.
<snip>

Well if it *seems* improbable...

Read the headers, dawg. Dave Touretzky posts from cmu.edu. The very amusing
apology article was posted through a remailer.

Ever yours in fandom,
Jommy Cross

---------------------------------------------------
This message brought to you by Radio Free Albemuth:
before you hallucinate
--------------------------------------------------


Muldoon

unread,
Mar 12, 2006, 1:17:19 AM3/12/06
to

'Targets, Defense' is part of a foursome of senior confidential
tactical writings dated 16 February 1969. The others being 'Battle
Tactics', 'Enemy PROs' [Public Relations Officers], and 'Enemy Names'.

There is a large amount of non-public, confidential, and highly
confidential material in Scientology - And I don't mean the "upper
levels" of the "Grade Chart."

Muldoon

unread,
Mar 12, 2006, 5:40:43 PM3/12/06
to

The four issues cited are a beginning for an in-depth examination of
what some have called the "scriptures."

Jay Random User, others, even Lily and RR, anyone who would care to
comment.

What is your opinion of these writings of L. Ron Hubbard. They are
found on key checksheets, including the 'President of the Church of
Scientology' 1988 checksheet.

Another issue, "Intelligence, Its Role', is also on that checksheet,
along with many more confidential issues. But for now, comments on
these four would be welcome, and would indicate a willingness to
communicate on your part.

You claim familiarity with the Doctrine. What is your opinion of these
issues?

Magoo

unread,
Mar 12, 2006, 9:28:05 PM3/12/06
to
Hey Emma!

Congratulations on coming out! I remember quite well how horrific it is at
first, but as you say, you began to make friends and realize it ~isn't~ as
bad as the inside of Scientology promotes life to be, outside.

And Gavino? You jerk.

That's all I'll say. Please keep sharing with us....
and be well :)

Tory/Magoo~~
"Susan" <enlighte...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:CMednU_ybvApDI_Z...@comcast.com...

Gerald Feffer

unread,
Mar 13, 2006, 2:22:28 AM3/13/06
to

You got it right Ed.

Gerald Feffer


Ed

unread,
Mar 13, 2006, 9:28:01 AM3/13/06
to

Must be... it's one of the rare times that Zinj hasn't come
back to reargue his point.

Ed

> Gerald Feffer

Zinj

unread,
Mar 13, 2006, 12:33:27 PM3/13/06
to
In article <44158171...@aol.com>, met...@aol.com says...
>
>
> Gerald Feffer wrote:

<snip>

> > You got it right Ed.
>
> Must be... it's one of the rare times that Zinj hasn't come
> back to reargue his point.
>
> Ed

Hmm. I'm not sure that that follows, but in general, I pretty much try
to avoid restating my opinions if I feel they've been adequately
expressed already and I don't have much to add, and when it doesn't look
like there's gonna be any general consensus, new discussion or questions
or data.

And, that's the case here; Scientology is secretive enough that we don't
know who's actually 'I/C' for the 'internet dirty tricks' squad within
OSA, but it's unlikely that either Bill Yaude or Gavino qualifies as any
kind of 'ultimate authority'. Scientology is nothing if not autocratic
and authoritarian, and all 'orders' come from 'uplines', but, whether
Bill is Gavino's flunky or Gavino is Bill's, in my view, remains
unclear, and, ultimately not all that important. Eventually more data
will be available and things may be clearer, but, I suspect that the
'command lines' in this particular aspect of Scientology's War Against
The World resemble spaghetti :)

Certainly goes a long way towards explaining its stunning footbulleting
capability.

Zinj
--
Scientology is an 'Applied Religious Philosophy'
It's the 'application' that's objectionable.

Muldoon

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Mar 14, 2006, 2:19:40 AM3/14/06
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